Legislature(1997 - 1998)

01/20/1998 03:30 PM Senate STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
            SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                                     
                   January 20, 1998                                            
                      3:30 p.m.                                                
                                                                               
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
                                                                               
Senator Lyda Green, Chairman                                                   
Senator Jerry Ward, Vice-Chairman                                              
Senator Jerry Mackie                                                           
Senator Mike Miller                                                            
Senator Jim Duncan                                                             
                                                                               
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
                                                                               
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
                                                                               
SENATE BILL NO. 222                                                            
"An Act naming the Robert B. Atwood Building."                                 
                                                                               
     - MOVED CSSB 222(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                    
                                                                               
SENATE BILL NO. 214                                                            
"An Act relating to the possession of a concealed deadly weapon by             
peace officers and chief administrative officers of local police               
departments; to the definition of police officer as it is defined              
for police standards; and providing for an effective date."                    
                                                                               
     - HEAD AND HELD CSSB 214(STA)                                             
                                                                               
SENATE BILL NO. 209                                                            
"An Act relating to the Task Force on Privatization; and providing             
for an effective date."                                                        
                                                                               
     - MOVED SB 209 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
                                                                               
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                               
                                                                               
No previous action to record.                                                  
                                                                               
WITNESS REGISTER                                                               
                                                                               
Mr. Keith Gerkin                                                               
Dept. of Administration                                                        
PO Box 110201                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99801                                                               
Position Statement: Commented on SB 222                                        
                                                                               
Mr. Victor Fisher                                                              
PO Box 201384                                                                  
Anchorage, AK 99520                                                            
Position Statement: Supported SB 222                                           
                                                                               
Mr. Doug North                                                                 
4101 University Drive                                                          
Anchorage, AK 99508                                                            
Position Statement: Supported SB 222                                           
                                                                               
Ms. Katie Hurley                                                               
PO Box 870157                                                                  
Wasilla, AK 99687                                                              
Position Statement: Supported SB 222                                           
                                                                               
Mr. Leonard Abel                                                               
326 4th Street #1011                                                           
Juneau, AK 99801                                                               
Position Statement: Commented on SB 214                                        
                                                                               
Ms. Lauree Hugonin                                                             
Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                         
130 Seward Street #501                                                         
Juneau, AK 99801                                                               
Position Statement: Commented on SB 214                                        
                                                                               
Mr. Dean Guaneli                                                               
Dept. of Law                                                                   
PO Box 110300                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99801                                                               
Position Statement: Commented on SB 214                                        
                                                                               
Ms. Jayne Andreen                                                              
Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                                
PO Box 111200                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99801                                                               
Position Statement: Commented on SB 214                                        
                                                                               
Mr. Del Smith                                                                  
Dept. of Public Safety                                                         
450 Whittier Street                                                            
Juneau, AK 99801                                                               
Position Statement: Commented on SB 214                                        
                                                                               
Mr. Mike McMullen                                                              
Dept. of Administration, Div. of Personnel                                     
PO Box 110201                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99801                                                               
Position Statement: Commented on SB 209                                        
                                                                               
Ms. Pam LaBolle                                                                
Alaska State Chamber of Commerce                                               
217 2nd Street                                                                 
Juneau, AK 99801                                                               
Position Statement: Supported SB 209                                           
                                                                               
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                               
                                                                               
TAPE 98-1, SIDE A                                                              
Number 001                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN GREEN called the Senate State Affairs Committee to order              
at 3:37 p.m., and noted all members present.                                   
                                                                               
                                                                               
            SB 222 - NAMING ATWOOD BLDG IN ANCHORAGE                           
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN brought up SB 222 as the first order of business.                
                                                                               
An amendment was proposed to SB 222 and moved by Senator Ward.                 
There was no objection and the bill was amended.                               
                                                                               
SENATOR KELLY, prime sponsor of the bill, explained the bill would             
name the newly acquired state office building in Anchorage after               
Mr. Robert B. Atwood, a 61-year resident of Alaska. He acknowledged            
Mr. Atwood as an entrepreneur who was involved in most of the                  
distinguishing events in the state during the 20th century. He                 
published the Anchorage times and was a pioneer of the oil industry            
and an advocate for education and statehood. He chaired the Alaska             
Statehood Committee and was a tireless visionary, said Senator                 
Kelly. He went on to say Mr. Atwood  was a leader and humanitarian             
and improved Alaska for us all. He would like to see him remembered            
by future generations.                                                         
                                                                               
SENATOR KELLY explained the amendment resolved a conflict with the             
lease agreement signed that allowed the Bank of America to retain              
its name on the building until 2002. He stated he did not want to              
pressure Bank of America and would be happy to name the building               
after 2002. However, the new language allows the possibility of a              
compromise between the State and the Bank of America before that               
time. He mentioned that the motivation behind the bill came from               
Representative John Cowdry and it was his intention that this bill             
reside in committee until Representative Cowdry's bill came from               
the house. Representative Cowdry's bill would then be the vehicle              
for the name change.                                                           
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD thanked Senator Kelly for the bill and cited Mr.                  
Atwood as his personal motivation behind running for office. He                
then made a motion to move the bill from committee with individual             
recommendations.                                                               
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN mentioned there were people on line wishing to                   
testify and asked he hold his motion.                                          
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD agreed.                                                           
                                                                               
MS. KATIE HURLEY testified from Mat-Su. She endorsed Mr. Atwood as             
a visionary and advocate for Statehood. She applauded his tireless             
work in the face of adversity and cited his strong support as the              
key to victory in the 1946 vote on Statehood. Ms. Hurley credited              
Mr. Atwood as a proud supporter of the Alaska Constitution and a               
great leader. She believes it would be fitting for his name to be              
honored.                                                                       
                                                                               
MR. VICTOR FISHER from Anchorage agreed with Ms. Hurley, speaking              
on behalf of three living delegates to the Alaska Constitutional               
Convention. He echoed her testimony to the character and dedication            
of Mr. Atwood and expressed appreciation to Senator Kelly and                  
Representative Cowdry for introducing the bill.                                
                                                                               
MR. DOUG NORTH, from Anchorage representing Alaska Pacific                     
University, stated that Mr. Atwood was also a friend of private-hire education,
trustee. He attested to Mr. Atwood's strong character and lifelong             
vitality. He concluded his testimony saying he was pleased to                  
endorse the bill.                                                              
                                                                               
MR. KEITH GERKIN, representing the Department of Administration                
(DOA) stated that the amendment adopted satisfied his previous                 
concerns. He clarified that the lease expiration date was March 31,            
2002.                                                                          
                                                                               
Number 155                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD repeated his motion to move SB 222 out of committee               
with individual recommendations.                                               
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN noted no objection and the bill moved with individual            
recommendations and an accompanying fiscal note.                               
                                                                               
                                                                               
           SB 214 - PEACE OFFICERS/ CONCEALED WEAPONS                          
                                                                               
MS. PORTIA PARKER, staff to Senator Miller, presented SB 214. She              
said the bill makes  two changes to recently enacted SB 141. She               
explained the reason for the bill was to address a problem                     
unintentionally created by a last-minute amendment to the bill last            
session. The bill as-is inadvertently limits the ability of a peace            
officer to carry a concealed weapon while on duty in their first               
year of service. This bill is a result of cooperation with the                 
Alaska Peace Officers Association and allows officers and certain              
administrative officers to carry a concealed weapon while on or off            
the job without having to obtain a state permit.                               
                                                                               
MR. LEONARD ABEL identified himself as a pro-gun member of the NRA             
and a concealed carry permittee as well as a Ph.D. in clinical                 
psychology and the Community Mental Health Services Program                    
Administrator for the Division of Mental Health and Developmental              
Disabilities. He stated he had worked with Representative James'               
staff on the original bill, especially in relation to mental health            
issues. He said now the Department of Public Safety (DPS) has the              
ability to deny a permit to a person who had a serious mental                  
illness, whether they had been committed of not. To invoke this,               
the person would have been brought to the attention of the                     
department. So far, he said, only one person has been denied a                 
permit by this procedure. He explained that by changing Section 12             
in SB 141, this requirement would be dropped and only people who               
have been committed could be denied. He believes there are people              
out there who have not been committed who should not carry                     
concealed weapons. This is his main concern and he believes it                 
could be rectified by a return to the original language of the                 
bill. He does not believe it is overly restrictive as it requires              
an illness that substantially impairs a persons actions or                     
perceptions.                                                                   
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE wondered how Mr. Abel proposed the issuers of the               
permits would determine a person's mental illness. He asked how                
this could be accomplished without the infringement of a person's              
civil liberties.                                                               
                                                                               
Number 261                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. ABEL said court action records could be obtained or other                  
information may surface.                                                       
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE asked again if someone has never been officially                
diagnosed, who would decide if a permit should be issued.                      
                                                                               
MR. ABEL replied a person denied can appeal and any allegations                
could be checked out.                                                          
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE asked if anyone off the street could offer an                   
opinion that would lead to a denial.                                           
                                                                               
MR. ABEL suggested that it has only happened once in 7,500 permits             
and seems the appropriate thing to do.                                         
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE expressed discomfort with vague definitions but                 
agreed with the idea. He wondered if the vague wording might cause             
legal or constitutional problems.                                              
                                                                               
MR. ABEL replied that with the change there might be more control              
available when the situation arose.                                            
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN appreciated Mr. Abel's attempt to balance the issues             
at stake. She stated that the scope of the bill was limited to a               
fix of SB 141 and she planned it would stay that way.                          
                                                                               
SENATOR DUNCAN commented that he thought Mr. Abel's testimony was              
important and he was willing to offer an amendment to broaden the              
bill's scope. He moved his amendment which he explained addressed              
the concerns regarding mental illness, indicted felons, and                    
domestic violence facilities.                                                  
                                                                               
There was objection to the amendment and it was held for                       
discussion.                                                                    
                                                                               
Lauree Hugonin, Executive Director of the Alaska Network on                    
Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault (ANDVSA) realized this was                
targeted to the law enforcement problem, but hoped it could be                 
broadened to include ANDVSA's concerns. Her first concern regarded             
misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence. She said these will not be            
covered under SB 141, thus not applicable to the prohibition                   
against applying for a permit. Her second concern was court orders             
- certain protective orders do not fall under the federal                      
definition which would keep violators of these kind of orders from             
possessing handguns. She expressed a third concern about facilities            
providing services to victims of domestic violence. She said the               
difference between the state and federal definitions of domestic               
violence misdemeanors has to do with elements of the crime. Federal            
domestic violence misdemeanors require the use of force or the                 
threatened use of a deadly weapon by people in certain types of                
relationships. The definitions restrict the crimes that would be               
covered and ANDVSA believes offenders of these crimes should not be            
allowed to obtain a concealed carry permit. She said this was the              
case prior to SB 141. She added that all court orders will not be              
covered, only those with a specific finding prohibiting domestic               
violence. Her last concern regarded domestic violence shelters. She            
spoke to an amendment prohibiting carrying concealed weapons in                
domestic violence shelters, saying all programs are not shelters               
and therefore all are not covered and should be. She stated her                
concerns were voiced in order of priority.                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR DUNCAN said he believed his amendment would address most of            
the concerns of ANDVSA.                                                        
                                                                               
MR. DEAN GUANELI, representing the Department of Law (DOL) spoke to            
the concerns of prosecutors relating to those people charged with              
felony crimes attempting to obtain a concealed carry permit. He                
agreed with Senator Taylor that theoretically good judges would                
impose restrictions on carrying firearms in many cases. However, he            
believes that judges might not necessarily do this unless the                  
alleged crime involved a weapon. He suggested that theory does not             
mirror practice. DOL thinks this restriction is important and is               
sufficiently narrow.                                                           
                                                                               
SENATOR MILLER remarked that it seems we are going in a direction              
that assumes guilt until innocence is proven and he has a problem              
with this.                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. GUANELI understood this concern but says the courts currently              
lock people up until trial when the evidence warrants it and thinks            
it is not much more to deny them concealed weapons.                            
                                                                               
SENATOR MILLER wanted to know if these people could openly carry a             
weapon.                                                                        
                                                                               
MR. GUANELI affirmed they could, unless restricted by a judge.                 
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE wondered if this applied to any type of felony.                 
                                                                               
MR. GUANELI said as it is, yes, but it could be limited to certain             
types of offenses.                                                             
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD asked how many judges fail to impose restrictions. He             
added that he would like those judges' names.                                  
                                                                               
MR. GUANELI was unsure, he said he would get the information but               
estimated it to be in the hundreds.                                            
                                                                               
TAPE 98-1 SIDE B                                                               
Number 001                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN asked if their was a prohibition for indicted felons             
in federal law.                                                                
                                                                               
MR. GUANELI thought so, prohibiting the purchase of a firearm.                 
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN believed the prohibition covered purchase or                     
possession, so this was unnecessary at the state level.                        
                                                                               
MR. GUANELI said if that was the case, it was unnecessary. He added            
as clarification he did not believe the prohibition applied to                 
indicted felons, only convicted felons.                                        
                                                                               
MR. GUANELI restated his previous point that a judge may not impose            
a weapons restriction on a person indicted, unless the crime                   
involved a weapon.                                                             
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN interjected that we all know these people don't get              
permits in the first place. She said she had no problem saying                 
criminals should not carry weapons.                                            
                                                                               
JAYNE ANDREEN, Director of the Council on Domestic Violence and                
Sexual Assault, agreed with Lauree Houginin's testimony and added              
that the State of Alaska adopted the Domestic Violence Prevention              
and Victim Protection Act of 1996. She said this is a model code on            
domestic violence from a national level. It is used across the                 
nation to evaluate states' progress. She stated an expert in the               
field has said Alaska has one of the most comprehensive bodies of              
statute in the country. She repeated Ms. Houginin's point about the            
difference in state and federal misdemeanor standards and urged the            
committee to look at the proposed amendment which, in her opinion,             
is vitally important to continue protecting victims in Alaska.                 
                                                                               
DEL SMITH, Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Public Safety              
(DPS), administers the concealed handgun permit program. He has                
worked with staff on the law enforcement problem in the past. He               
says the current problem may affect 100 people at any given time               
and is affecting eight people in Juneau at this time. He would like            
to see this bill passed in a timely manner to address this concern             
and prevent future problems for law enforcement. He shared concerns            
about domestic violence shelters as previously expressed but stated            
SB 214 does correct his main concern.                                          
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE repeated his question about how a determination                 
might be made that a person is mentally ill.                                   
                                                                               
MR. SMITH said in this one case where a permit was denied,                     
information was provided by a person who knew the applicant. He                
said staff cannot determine mental illness at the permit counter               
but would like to reserve the right to use discretion.                         
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE asked if discretion would be used like police                   
officers on the street employ.                                                 
                                                                               
MR. SMITH replied that his concern was if the department had not               
received this information, this person would have gotten a permit.             
He said the department does contact local police departments prior             
to issuing a permit but application of the federal standard would              
have not allowed them to deny this person a permit.                            
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE agreed with this but expressed concern with the                 
possibility of infringement of rights due to another person's                  
personal agenda.                                                               
                                                                               
MR. SMITH reminded the committee that a person dissatisfied with               
the denial of a permit can make a complaint and the department                 
would investigate the source. He said they are not being arbitrary             
denying people permits.                                                        
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD asked if this person denied a permit could carry                  
openly.                                                                        
                                                                               
MR. SMITH said as far as he knows, yes.                                        
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD repeated his question, saying even though the                     
department received information about this person, he was not                  
adjudicated and could carry openly then and now.                               
                                                                               
MR. SMITH agreed that he had not been adjudicated and could carry              
openly then and now.                                                           
                                                                               
MS. PORTIA PARKER returned to say it was her understanding that                
federal law prohibited anyone under felony indictment from                     
purchasing or possessing a firearm. She stated that with the                   
current definition of mental illness there would be no prohibition             
against a person carrying a weapon. She added that under the law               
two class A misdemeanors in a six-year period would disallow a                 
person from being eligible for a concealed carry permit. She said              
it was a conscious decision by the bill sponsor to omit a                      
prohibition on carrying concealed weapons on private property and              
they would be opposed to an amendment expanding a prohibition to               
private property.                                                              
                                                                               
SENATOR MILLER introduced the committee substitute and Ms. Parker              
explained the changes as a suggestion from the bill drafter,                   
changing local to municipal and clarifying the type of law                     
enforcement administrative officers to whom the bill would apply.              
                                                                               
SENATOR DUNCAN reminded the committee of his amendment but held his            
motion at this time.                                                           
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD moved the adoption of CSSB 214(STA). He stated perhaps            
he and Senator Duncan could work jointly on other issues proposed              
in another piece of legislation.                                               
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE asked if the amendment was drafted correctly to the             
bill. He agreed that section seven of the amendment regarding                  
mental health should be addressed, due to Mr. Abel's testimony.                
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN repeated that she would like to have people deal with            
other concerns in separate legislation. She said this bill is to               
make a correction to the previous bill as it relates to peace                  
officers.                                                                      
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD offered his belief that adjudication is necessary                 
before a person's right to bear arms is taken away. He would like              
better definition of this issue.                                               
                                                                               
SENATOR DUNCAN expressed to the committee the seriousness of his               
amendment and believed the testimony of the experts in law                     
enforcement and domestic violence should be addressed immediately.             
He feared if they were not, they may never reach discussion again.             
He said he would like clarification on the federal law regarding               
purchase or purchase and possession of firearms and believes the               
committee should err on the side of safety. He expressed confidence            
in the people working with victims of domestic violence and                    
validated their concerns regarding domestic violence facilities. He            
recounted that there had been lengthy discussion regarding the                 
difference between carrying openly and carrying concealed and in               
his view it was a major difference. He asked the committee to                  
divide the amendment into four parts: part one being subsection 7              
regarding mental illness; part two regarding a person charged with             
a felony; part three dealing with the crimes of domestic violence              
and stalking and the fourth part dealing with the facilities                   
providing services to victims of domestic violence. He found these             
four topics important enough to merit separate rulings by the                  
committee. He moved the division of the amendment.                             
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD objected, roll was taken and the motion failed four to            
one.                                                                           
                                                                               
SENATOR DUNCAN appreciated the vote on division of the amendment               
and renewed his motion to move the entire amendment.                           
                                                                               
SENATOR MACKIE said he would vote no on the amendment, agreeing                
with Senator Duncan on some points but saying it was crucial to                
address the law enforcement problem immediately.                               
                                                                               
Roll was taken and the amendment failed four to one.                           
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD moved the bill be passed out of committee with                    
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note.                   
Without objection, the bill was moved.                                         
                                                                               
              SB 209 - TASK FORCE ON PRIVATIZATION                             
                                                                               
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD, prime sponsor of SB 209, explained that this was the             
exact same bill that appeared before the legislature last year,                
just with the time frame reduced by one year. He said the Governor             
had vetoed the bill and everyone had heard the same sponsor                    
statement and bill last year.                                                  
                                                                               
MR. MIKE MCMULLEN, representing the Department of Administration,              
Division of Personnel, agreed that the concept of the new bill was             
the same and so was the position of the division. They still have              
concerns regarding the requirements of the state collective                    
bargaining agreements. He said the agreements contain requirements             
for formal feasibility studies before any layoffs of bargaining                
unit members. He quoted a projected cost of $20,000 - $50,000 per              
study and said they take some time to conduct. He said the bill's              
time line would make the affected agencies lag behind legislative              
changes. He said the task force findings and the feasibility                   
studies might not agree and it would be particularly problematic if            
the legislative changes precede the findings of the feasibility                
studies. He hoped the committee would perhaps take another approach            
and quoted the Governor's veto message saying, "the Administration             
stands ready to cooperate and provide available information to any             
committee or task force legislative leadership may appoint to                  
review possible privatization opportunities."                                  
                                                                               
PAM LABOLLE, President of the Alaska State Chamber of Commerce said            
the Chamber supports the bill as one of their top priorities. She              
feels business supports the state and the state should support                 
business. She said they believe there are many opportunities within            
government for many new ways of doing business. She informed the               
committee that Mr. Craig Holt, nationally recognized speaker on                
"right sizing" government was going to be available later in the               
week. She said the Chamber has worked with Mr. Holt in the past and            
he educated them about privatization opportunities. She listed some            
advantages of competition, including reduced cost and high quality             
goods and services.                                                            
                                                                               
SENATOR DUNCAN asked if after the seminars and training the State              
Chamber had, she thought it would be an easy job to determine which            
areas might be privatized.                                                     
                                                                               
MS. LABOLLE responded that it would not be easy but some difficult             
jobs are the ones worth doing. She said it is a good piece of                  
legislation which identifies a few departments in order to take an             
initial look at the possible opportunities.                                    
                                                                               
SENATOR DUNCAN asked if she had looked at this year's bill.                    
                                                                               
MS. LABOLLE admitted she had not.                                              
                                                                               
SENATOR DUNCAN explained he asked because he believes this to be a             
complex issue where it will be difficult to determine which                    
departments might lend themselves to privatization and review the              
procedures involved. He said this bill does not look at a few                  
departments, this bill indicates all departments will be reviewed              
and they will be reviewed by November 15th, 1998. He said he is not            
speaking against the legislation but, in his opinion, this seems to            
be too much too soon. He asked Ms. LaBolle if it seemed possible to            
meet this deadline and do a good job.                                          
                                                                               
MS. LABOLLE replied that the task force could identify objectives,             
much like was done by the Long Range Financial Planning Task Force             
in three or four months.                                                       
                                                                               
TAPE 98-2 SIDE A                                                               
Number 001                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR DUNCAN asked how much of that was adopted. He went on to               
say he thinks this may be more complex than what was tackled by the            
Long Range Planning Task Force. He believes there may be legal                 
constraints due to contractual agreements with unions and                      
competitive bidding. He asked her opinion on whether it could be               
done in a four month period.                                                   
                                                                               
MS. LABOLLE said it was unfortunate that the bill was vetoed last              
year or they would have had an additional year to do this. She said            
it must start somewhere as it is so important. She said state                  
government is growing while the private sector shrinks and business            
supports the state and must increase.                                          
                                                                               
SENATOR DUNCAN did not disagree with supporting the private sector             
but took exception to the statement that the government has grown              
while the private sector has been shrinking. He said the government            
has also been shrinking and there were figures to back that up. He             
added he did not think Senator Miller and others with their five               
year plan would be happy with her saying government has grown                  
during their leadership. He stated perhaps the legislation should              
be pared down so it could be done right. He thinks this may be                 
biting off more than anyone can chew and perhaps it was meant for              
failure. He said if the sponsor really wanted to get something                 
done, maybe a smaller start would be better.                                   
                                                                               
SENATOR WARD moved the bill out of committee with individual                   
recommendations and accompanying fiscal notes.                                 
                                                                               
SENATOR DUNCAN objected. Roll was called and the bill passed out               
with a three to one vote.                                                      
                                                                               
The meeting was adjourned at 5:15 p.m.                                         
                                                                               
                                                                               

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