Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/09/1997 06:09 PM FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
                                                                               
                             MINUTES                                           
                    SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                   
                          April 9, 1997                                        
                            6:09 P.M.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  TAPES                                                                        
                                                                               
  SFC-97, # 91, Sides 1 & 2 (000-590, 590-000)                                 
  SFC-97, # 92, Sides 1 & 2 (000-590, 590-527)                                 
                                                                               
  CALL TO ORDER                                                                
                                                                               
  Senator  Bert  Sharp,  Cochair,  Senate  Finance  Committee,                 
  reconvened the meeting at approximately 6:09 P.M.                            
                                                                               
  PRESENT                                                                      
                                                                               
  In addition to COCHAIR  SHARP, SENATORS PHILLIPS, TORGERSON,                 
  PARNELL  and  ADAMS  were  present   when  the  meeting  was                 
  reconvened.  COCHAIR  PEARCE and  SENATOR DONLEY arrived  as                 
  the meeting was in progress.                                                 
                                                                               
  Also Attending:                                                              
  SENATOR ROBIN TAYLOR; BRUCE  CAMPBELL, Staff, Representative                 
  Pete Kelly; JULES  TILESTON, Director, Division of  Mining &                 
  Water  Management, Department  of  Natural Resources;  JAMES                 
  MCCOMAS,  President,  Alaskans  Against  the  Death  Penalty                 
  (AADP),  Anchorage;  SUSI  GREGG  FOWLER,  Juneau;   CHARLES                 
  CAMPBELL,  Juneau; BARBARA  BRINK,  Acting Public  Defender,                 
  Department of Administration; JOSH FINK, AADP; MARGOT KNUTH,                 
  Assistant  Attorney General;  Department  of Law;  GUY BELL,                 
  Director, Division of Administrative Services, Department of                 
  Economic  Development;  MIKE NIZICH,  Director,  Division of                 
  Administrative Services,  Office  of  the  Governor;  fiscal                 
  analysts and aides to committee members.                                     
                                                                               
  Also Attending Via Teleconference:                                           
  DUDLEY  SHARP, Vice  President,  Justice for  All,  Houston,                 
  Texas; CATHY KAINER,  Anchorage; HUGH FLEISCHER,  Anchorage;                 
  BARBARA HOOD, Anchorage.                                                     
                                                                               
  SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                          
       HB 46  MINING CLAIMS ON PUBLIC LANDS                                    
                                                                               
       BRUCE CAMPBELL testified  on behalf of HB  46.  SENATOR                 
       PARNELL MOVED  Amendment #1.    SENATOR ADAMS  objected                 
       then   withdrew   his  objection.      Without  further                 
       objection, Amendment  #1 was  ADOPTED.  JULES  TILESTON                 
       testified in  support of  HB 46.   SENATOR  ADAMS MOVED                 
       SCSCSHB   46(FIN)   from   committee  with   individual                 
       recommendations.    Without objection,  SCSCSHB 46(FIN)                 
       was REPORTED OUT with a new  fiscal note (7.5) from the                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
       Department of Natural Resources.                                        
       SB 60  ADVISORY VOTE ON CAPITAL PUNISHMENT                              
                                                                               
       SENATOR TAYLOR testified on behalf of the bill.  DUDLEY                 
       SHARP   testified   in   support  via   teleconference.                 
       Testimony opposed to SB 60 was heard from CATHY KAINER,                 
       HUGH FLEISCHER, BARBARA HOOD, JAMES MCCOMAS, SUSI GREGG                 
       FOWLER, CHARLES CAMPBELL, BARBARA BRINK and  JOSH FINK.                 
       Information  was provided  by  MARGOT  KNUTH.   SENATOR                 
       ADAMS MOVED Amendment  #1.   COCHAIR SHARP and  SENATOR                 
       TORGERSON objected.   Amendment #1 FAILED  by a 6 to  1                 
       vote.    SENATOR  ADAMS MOVED  Amendment  #2.   SENATOR                 
       TORGERSON objected.   Amendment #2 FAILED  by a 6 to  1                 
       vote.   SENATOR TORGERSON  MOVED SB  60 from  committee                 
       with individual recommendations  and a previous  fiscal                 
       note from  the Division  of Elections  (3.0).   COCHAIR                 
       SHARP and SENATOR  ADAMS objected.  SB 60  was REPORTED                 
       OUT by a 6 to 1 vote,  with a previous fiscal note from                 
       the Division of Elections (3.0).                                        
       HB 75  APPROPRIATIONS: OPERATING BUDGET                                 
       HB 76  APPROPRIATION: MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAM                             
                                                                               
       Finance  Subcommittee  close-outs  were  taken  up  for                 
       Department of Commerce  and Economic Development (DCED)                 
       and Office of  the Governor.   SENATOR TORGERSON  MOVED                 
       for    incorporation    of   the    DCED   Subcommittee                 
       recommendations  into HB 75  and HB 76.   SENATOR ADAMS                 
       objected.  Testimony from GUY BELL was heard.   SENATOR                 
       ADAMS  withdrew   his  objection.     Without   further                 
       objection, the DCED  Subcommittee recommendations  were                 
       ADOPTED and incorporated into HB 75 and HB 76.  SENATOR                 
       ADAMS  MOVED  for incorporation  of  the Office  of the                 
       Governor Subcommittee recommendations into HB 75 and HB
       76,  then objected to the  motion.  Testimony was heard                 
       from  MIKE   NIZICH.     SENATOR  ADAMS   withdrew  his                 
       objection.   Without further objection,  the Office  of                 
       the   Governor   Subcommittee    recommendations   were                 
       incorporated into HB 75 and HB 76.                                      
       SB 63  DEADLY WEAPON OFFENSES BY JUVENILES                              
       SENATOR DONLEY,  Sponsor,  testified on  behalf of  the                 
       bill.  Also  testifying were  MARGOT KNUTH and  BARBARA                 
       BRINK.  SENATOR  DONLEY MOVED SB 63 from committee with                 
       individual  recommendations.    There   was  discussion                 
       concerning fiscal notes.   SENATOR DONLEY  withdrew and                 
       restated his motion to include all previously published                 
       fiscal notes and a new  Senate Finance Committee fiscal                 
       note for the Department of Corrections (indeterminate).                 
       SENATOR  ADAMS  objected.   SB 63  was REPORTED  OUT of                 
       committee by a 6  to 1 vote with previous  fiscal notes                 
       from the Department  of Administration  (indeterminate)                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
       and the Court System (5.5), a zero fiscal note from the                 
       Department of Public  Safety, and a new  Senate Finance                 
       Committee fiscal note for the Department of Corrections                 
       (indeterminate).                                                        
       SB 70  UNLAWFUL DISCHARGE OF A FIREARM                                  
       SENATOR  DONLEY,  Sponsor, testified  on behalf  of the                 
       bill.  SENATOR ADAMS MOVED  CSSB 70(JUD) from committee                 
       with  individual  recommendations.   Without objection,                 
       CSSB 70(JUD) was REPORTED OUT with previous zero fiscal                 
       notes  from  the Department  of  Public Safety  and the                 
       Department of  Health and  Social Services,  a previous                 
       fiscal note from the Department of Law, new zero fiscal                 
       notes   from  the   Department   of  Corrections,   the                 
       Department   of   Administration   (Office  of   Public                 
       Advocacy) and the Court  System, and a new  fiscal note                 
       from the  Department  of  Administration  (48.1  Public                 
       Defender Agency).                                                       
  CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 46(RES)                                                
  "An Act relating to mining;  and providing for an  effective                 
  date."                                                                       
                                                                               
  BRUCE CAMPBELL, Staff,  Representative Pete Kelly, explained                 
  the bill to the  committee.  It was developed as  part of an                 
  extensive   review  process   conducted   by  large   mining                 
  operations on state  land such as Fort Knox,  Illinois Creek                 
  and others.  It was found there  were areas in the code that                 
  could be  more consistent.   The  bill amends  the Title  27                 
  mining  code to allow  coal miners  wider access  to federal                 
  funds  for  permitting related  activities.   It  amends the                 
  Title 38 mining  code to correct inconsistencies  and reduce                 
  paperwork   and   establishes   a   520   acre   Petersville                 
  Recreational Mining Area.                                                    
                                                                               
  In response to  a question from SENATOR ADAMS,  MR. CAMPBELL                 
  referred  to  page  10,  line  28  and  explained  that  the                 
  calculation was rounded  to the  nearest five dollar  units.                 
  SENATOR  ADAMS  inquired how  HB  46 would  stimulate mining                 
  activities in Alaska.   MR. CAMPBELL  replied that the  bill                 
  did not have  that broad of  goal, it was  intended more  to                 
  provide  consistency  throughout the  code.    SENATOR ADAMS                 
  noted  an  amendment  in  committee   files  and  asked  for                 
  explanation.                                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. CAMPBELL  stated the  amendment was  a clarification  of                 
  wording  changes  related  to location,  lease  and  permit,                 
  adding  that there was  no intent  to revoke  anyone's prior                 
  existing rights acquired through location, lease or permit.                  
                                                                               
  SENATOR PARNELL MOVED Amendment #1.   SENATOR ADAMS objected                 
  and asked to hear from the department.                                       
                                                                               
  JULES  TILESTON,  Director,  Division   of  Mining  &  Water                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Management, Department  of Natural  Resources, testified  in                 
  support of  the amendment,  stating it  was a  clean way  to                 
  clarify the  intent. SENATOR  ADAMS withdrew  his objection.                 
  Without  further  objection,   Amendment  #1  was   ADOPTED.                 
  SENATOR ADAMS asked the department's  overall position on HB
  46.  MR. TILESTON stated support and urged its passage.                      
  SENATOR  ADAMS  MOVED SCSCSHB  46(FIN)  from  committee with                 
  individual  recommendations.    Without  objection,  SCSCSHB
  46(FIN) was REPORTED OUT  with a new fiscal note  (7.5) from                 
  the Department of Natural Resources.                                         
  SENATE BILL NO. 60                                                           
  "An  Act  providing for  an advisory  vote  on the  issue of                 
  capital punishment."                                                         
                                                                               
  SENATOR  ROBIN  TAYLOR,  Sponsor  of  SB 60,  addressed  the                 
  committee.   He stated  the bill  was intended  to seek  the                 
  advise  of  Alaska  voters  on  the controversial  issue  of                 
  capital punishment.   Passage of the  bill would not  impose                 
  the death penalty, it would place on the ballot the question                 
  of whether the legislature should enact a capital punishment                 
  law.    SENATOR  TAYLOR  continued  by reading  his  sponsor                 
  statement.                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR ADAMS commented  that the sponsor knew  his position                 
  on  the death  penalty.  It  did not deter  crime, it killed                 
  innocent  people, and  discriminated against  minorities and                 
  the  poor.   He  drew attention  to  Amendment #1  which was                 
  before members, commenting that voters should know the cost,                 
  similar to the Frank Initiative.  He invited individuals who                 
  would be testifying  to comment on  the amendment.   SENATOR                 
  TAYLOR responded briefly, commenting that the death  penalty                 
  was a warning  and a deterrent to a class  of offenders that                 
  would offend again.   He added that there was  no protection                 
  for corrections officers who guard people who have committed                 
  multiple  homicides.     He  opposed  the  Frank  Initiative                 
  approach,  as it's  only purpose was  to kill the  bill.  He                 
  said  there was  no known  basis for  determining cost,  but                 
  suggested  Mr. Sharp,  available  via teleconference,  could                 
  speak to it.                                                                 
                                                                               
  COCHAIR  SHARP called  for teleconference  testimony, asking                 
  witnesses to summarize their comments rather than getting in                 
  a long debate over the pros and cons of the bill.                            
                                                                               
  DUDLEY  SHARP, Vice  President,  Justice for  All,  Houston,                 
  Texas, testified next.  He brought up the issue of financial                 
  analysis,  having  reviewed  the fiscal  note.    Texas, the                 
  leading  executioner  in  the  nation,  had daily  costs  of                 
  incarceration of  death row prisoners at $54 per day because                 
  most of the inmates work.  He referred to capital cost for a                 
  death house in the fiscal note  and commented that Texas did                 
  not  even  build one,  they just  converted  a room  into an                 
  execution  facility.    He   supported  having  two  defense                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  attorneys for each case  as advised in the fiscal note.   An                 
  additional item not  taken into consideration was  where the                 
  fiscal  note  speculates  an average  of  ten  years between                 
  sentence and  execution.  He stated that  it totally negated                 
  the efforts made at the state  and federal level to restrict                 
  abuse of the writ of habeas  corpus.  He rebutted an earlier                 
  statement that there was no evidence  that the death penalty                 
  deterred  crime.   He  stated that  the  moral decision  was                 
  whether  to save  or sacrifice  innocent  lives.   MR. SHARP                 
  summarized that the fiscal note  needed additional work, the                 
  death penalty  would save  innocent lives,  deter crime  and                 
  provide  additional punishment  for an  additional crime  of                 
  murder.                                                                      
                                                                               
  The  following  individuals  testified  from  Anchorage  via                 
  teleconference.                                                              
                                                                               
  CATHY KAINER spoke  in opposition to  the bill.  She  stated                 
  the death penalty cost more than life imprisonment and cited                 
  sources.  She believed the sponsor  was asking the public to                 
  vote on their opinion on a  subject on which they have  very                 
  little knowledge,  particularly the  cost.   She stated  the                 
  death penalty experiment was  failing in all 38 states  that                 
  have it and that states  without the death penalty generally                 
  had lower murder rates.   Texas and Florida, the  two states                 
  with  the highest  number  of executions,  had  some of  the                 
  highest murder rates in  the country.  A 1995  national poll                 
  of  police chiefs  revealed that  they did  not  believe the                 
  death penalty was effective in fighting crime.                               
                                                                               
  HUGH FLEISCHER testified in opposition to  SB 60.  He stated                 
  the bill  was an  abdication of  the  responsibility of  the                 
  legislature by putting it before the  public for a vote.  He                 
  believed the costs must be provided,  citing a figure of $50                 
  million.                                                                     
                                                                               
  BARBARA HOOD opposed SB 60.  She encouraged the committee to                 
  insure that any debate  on the death penalty be  an informed                 
  debate, but the legislation did nothing to insure that.  She                 
  gave an example from a New York poll  that showed 57 percent                 
  of respondents believed the death penalty would deter crime,                 
  yet a study of  executions over the past century  found that                 
  murders  rose  in the  months following  an execution.   She                 
  stated that it  didn't cost  less to execute.   Many  states                 
  spend six times more to execute than  to keep them in prison                 
  for life.                                                                    
                                                                               
  COCHAIR SHARP invited testimony from those present in Juneau                 
  next.                                                                        
                                                                               
  JAMES MCCOMAS, President, Alaskans Against the Death Penalty                 
  (AADP), Anchorage, testified that there were five reasons to                 
  vote no on  an advisory vote.  First, there was no reason to                 
  have  the death penalty, it wouldn't be cheaper, deter crime                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  or make it safer.   Second, the results of an  advisory vote                 
  would  represent  public  misinformation   because  Alaskans                 
  didn't know much  about the issue.   He cited statistics  to                 
  support  his  statement.   Third,  it was  the legislature's                 
  responsibility to stop bad  public policy and not put  every                 
  controversial issue before a public  advisory vote.  Fourth,                 
  an advisory vote meant politics, not policy, would determine                 
  whether or not  we have the  death penalty.   Fifth, a  vote                 
  could only establish  popularity of  the issue, it  couldn't                 
  change  any of  the facts,  costs or  effect on crime.   MR.                 
  MCCOMAS added that in territorial  days, 75 percent of those                 
  executed  were Native  Alaskans  or African-Americans,  even                 
  though they only  committed 25 percent  of the murders.   He                 
  summarized that it  would be applied  to the poor, it  would                 
  result in  mistaken convictions  and widen  the gap  between                 
  diversities thereby polarizing  society.   In response to  a                 
  question from SENATOR  ADAMS, he believed disclosure  of the                 
  cost was important.                                                          
                                                                               
  SUSI GREGG FOWLER of Juneau stated that fear was a motivator                 
  for people to support an idea  like the death penalty.   The                 
  legislature  was  in  a  position  to give  people  accurate                 
  information.    The  real  cost  was  in  human  energy  and                 
  resources  in  defining sides.    MS. FOWLER  testified that                 
  recently members of  her husband's  family were murdered  in                 
  another state.   She wanted the  killer caught, but did  not                 
  want a death penalty  because it would not bring  healing or                 
  restore the lost lives.  She did not want people to kill for                 
  her.                                                                         
                                                                               
  End SFC-97 #91, Side 1, Begin Side 2                                         
                                                                               
  CHARLES  CAMPBELL  of  Juneau  testified  that he  was  past                 
  director of Corrections and had 45 years  in that field.  He                 
  stated there was  overwhelming consensus  that there was  no                 
  proof that the death penalty had a deterrent effect.  It may                 
  have an opposite effect  according to the 1969 study  of New                 
  York previously  mentioned which postulated  that publicized                 
  executions were  inclined to incite  persons predisposed  to                 
  violent crime.  MR. CAMPBELL believed the death penalty  was                 
  destructive  to  families  of  victims  because  it  delayed                 
  closure by an average of eleven years.  He urged a no vote.                  
                                                                               
  SENATOR ADAMS inquired if MR. CAMPBELL knew why the American                 
  Bar Association was asking for the termination of executions                 
  in the  United States.   MR.  CAMPBELL responded that  there                 
  were four reasons cited as to why the death penalty was  not                 
  working.   One  had to  do  with unmistakable  racial  bias,                 
  another  was  failure  of the  defendants  to  have adequate                 
  representation.  There was additional discussion about other                 
  options that could be provided on an advisory vote.                          
                                                                               
  The presence of COCHAIR PEARCE was noted.                                    
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BARBARA  BRINK,  Acting   Public  Defender,  Department   of                 
  Administration, testified next regarding the fiscal note she                 
  submitted that detailed what would be anticipated.  She also                 
  spoke to the use of an advisory ballot to ascertain majority                 
  opinion.   She expressed concern with allowing a policy vote                 
  by  the  general  public because  majority  opinion  did not                 
  necessarily  make  good public  policy,  citing  slavery and                 
  school segregation as  examples.   In addition, an  advisory                 
  vote could  create  a more  difficult  position  politically                 
  because the  legislature could  determine the  death penalty                 
  was not good  for the state.  She urged  the legislature not                 
  to  encourage the public  set to criminal  policy and called                 
  this the most  complicated criminal justice issue  any state                 
  could grapple with.                                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MS. BRINK continued her testimony  with an explanation about                 
  the  fiscal note.   She said that it  dealt with the average                 
  rather  than  the anomalous  case.   The  Department  of Law                 
  predicted ten cases per year.   She concluded her remarks by                 
  saying the fiscal  note was rather conservative  and stating                 
  her  opinion that  the  public  be  informed of  the  fiscal                 
  impact.  She  believed it would cost a lot of money for very                 
  little in  return and urged  that it not be  proposed to the                 
  public as if it were a viable alternative.                                   
                                                                               
  COCHAIR SHARP inquired  who requested the fiscal note.   MS.                 
  BRINK responded that  it originated  from the Department  of                 
  Administration.    There  was  brief  discussion  about  the                 
  indeterminate nature of the fiscal note.                                     
                                                                               
  SENATOR ADAMS  asked for  examples of  the  average cost  of                 
  execution in  other states.   MS.  BRINK responded  that the                 
  cost in North Carolina was $2.16 million per execution above                 
  the cost of  life imprisonment.   In California, it was  $90                 
  million annually, $78  million of which was the  trial level                 
  cost.  Florida had 18 executions between 1973 and 1988 for a                 
  cost of  $3.2 million  each.   Texas was  estimated at  $2.3                 
  million, about three  times the  cost of life  imprisonment.                 
  SENATOR DONLEY questioned the cost comparisons and MS. BRINK                 
  acknowledged that each state counts costs differently.                       
                                                                               
  JOSH FINK, AADP,  testified against the  bill.  He made  the                 
  point that  it was a  complex and  multi-faceted issue  that                 
  should  be decided by  the legislature because  Alaska was a                 
  representative  democracy,  not  a  direct  democracy.    An                 
  advisory vote was a  bad idea because  it would be based  on                 
  fear,  anger  and  misinformation thereby  hamstringing  the                 
  legislature and limiting options.  He pointed out that there                 
  had been numerous issues facing the state for years but they                 
  had not  been put  to an  advisory vote.   SENATOR  PHILLIPS                 
  noted that there  had been  advisory votes on  a few  issues                 
  such  as  a  unicameral legislature,  the  capital  move and                 
  longevity bonus annuities.                                                   
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law,                 
  was available for questions.  She  noted that there had been                 
  no loss of  lives in Alaska  institutions in response to  an                 
  earlier comment.                                                             
                                                                               
  SENATOR  TAYLOR  made   a  few   statements  regarding   the                 
  testimony.  He  was disturbed  by comments regarding  racial                 
  bias in the system and said it was a myth.  He cited studies                 
  that supported his  statement.   SENATOR ADAMS rebutted  his                 
  comments,  stating   that  documentation   showed  that   in                 
  territorial Alaska 75 percent of  those executed were Alaska                 
  Natives.   SENATOR  TAYLOR did not  dispute the  numbers but                 
  commented  that  it  was only  three  or  four  people.   He                 
  reiterated his point that all the legislation was asking for                 
  was an advisory opinion.                                                     
                                                                               
  COCHAIR SHARP announced  that after a brief  recess, COCHAIR                 
  PEARCE would reconvene the meeting and take up the operating                 
  budget close-outs, after which he  would continue with SB 60                 
  and other scheduled bills.                                                   
                       Recess at 7:19 P.M.                                     
                     Reconvene at 7:30 P.M.                                    
  CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 75(FIN) am(brf sup maj pfld)                           
  "An Act  making appropriations  for the  operating and  loan                 
  program expenses of state government,  for certain programs,                 
  and to capitalize funds; making  an appropriation under art.                 
  IX,  sec. 17(c), Constitution  of the State  of Alaska, from                 
  the constitutional budget reserve fund; and providing for an                 
  effective date."                                                             
                                                                               
  CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 76(FIN)                                                
  "An Act making appropriations for  the operating and capital                 
  expenses  of  the  state's integrated  comprehensive  mental                 
  health program; and providing for an effective date."                        
                                                                               
  COCHAIR PEARCE reconvened the meeting  to take up close-outs                 
  for  the Department  of  Commerce  and Economic  Development                 
  (DCED) and the Governor's  Office.  She noted that  DCED did                 
  not include the  Divisions of Trade Development  and Tourism                 
  because   they   had   been  included   under   a  different                 
  subcommittee headed by Senator Donley.                                       
                                                                               
  SENATOR TORGERSON had  chaired the subcommittee on DCED.  He                 
  provided   a   handout   to  members   to   illustrate   the                 
  subcommittee's recommendations.   He called attention  to an                 
  executive  order  that  transferred   the  Measurements  and                 
  Standards  component to  the  Department of  Transportation.                 
  The only reduction was  for $84.8 thousand in the  office of                 
  the  commissioner  for a  vacant position  which may  not be                 
  vacant after all.  He indicated there could be a forthcoming                 
  amendment.                                                                   
                                                                               
                                                                               
  SENATOR  TORGERSON  MOVED  for  incorporation  of  the  DCED                 
  Subcommittee recommendations into HB 75 and HB  76.  SENATOR                 
  ADAMS  objected.      SENATOR  PHILLIPS inquired  about  the                 
  location of activity within the Division of Insurance.                       
                                                                               
  GUY  BELL,  Director, Division  of  Administrative Services,                 
  Department of Economic Development, responded that there was                 
  a  balance of  staff between  the  Anchorage office  and the                 
  Juneau office.  There was  additional discussion about where                 
  the business  was generated  from and  the travel  involved.                 
  SENATOR DONLEY inquired about the  reason for a half-million                 
  dollar  decrease  in  the  governor's   budget.    MR.  BELL                 
  responded that the  Divisions of Insurance and  Occupational                 
  Licensing had been authorized to roll  forward from FY 96 to                 
  FY 97.                                                                       
                                                                               
  SENATOR  ADAMS  removed  his  objection.    Without  further                 
  objection,  the  DCED   Subcommittee  recommendations   were                 
  ADOPTED and incorporated into HB 75 and HB 76.                               
                                                                               
  SENATOR ADAMS  MOVED for incorporation of the  Office of the                 
  Governor Subcommittee recommendations into HB  75 and HB 76,                 
  then objected to the motion.                                                 
                                                                               
  COCHAIR PEARCE  pointed  out  that  the only  change  was  a                 
  reduction  of  $60 thousand  for  executive operations  that                 
  conformed to that made to the  DEC budget for the contracted                 
  environmental law position.   The governor had  incorporated                 
  about $960 thousand of carry-forward funds.                                  
                                                                               
  SENATOR ADAMS  brought up  a concern  that  the North  Slope                 
  Development  promotion  was  missing from  the  budget.   He                 
  thought the committee  should continue  efforts to get  ANWR                 
  open.                                                                        
                                                                               
  COCHAIR PEARCE asked if the governor's office had identified                 
  a reappropriation for that.                                                  
                                                                               
  MIKE NIZICH, Director, Division  of Administrative Services,                 
  Office  of  the Governor,  responded  that there  was recent                 
  discussion about North Slope development but the funding and                 
  level  had  not yet  been  identified.   It  was anticipated                 
  shortly and he would inform the cochair.                                     
                                                                               
  Discussion followed  between SENATOR  DONLEY, SENATOR  ADAMS                 
  and COCHAIR  PEARCE about  the governor's  contingency fund,                 
  lapsed funds and carry-forward funds.                                        
                                                                               
  End SFC-97 #91, Side 2                                                       
  Begin SFC-97 #92, Side 1                                                     
                                                                               
  SENATOR  ADAMS  withdrew  his  objection.    Without further                 
  objection,   the  Office   of   the  Governor   Subcommittee                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  recommendations were incorporated into HB 75 and HB 76.                      
                                                                               
  COCHAIR  PEARCE  announced  upcoming close-out  agendas  and                 
  briefly recessed the meeting.                                                
                                                                               
  COCHAIR SHARP reconvened the meeting and took up SB 60.                      
                                                                               
  SENATE BILL NO. 60                                                           
  "An  Act  providing for  an advisory  vote  on the  issue of                 
  capital punishment."                                                         
                                                                               
  A small portion of  the meeting was not recorded  because of                 
  technical error.  The following was taken from log notes.                    
                                                                               
  SENATOR ADAMS moved Amendment #1  and offered an explanation                 
  that the  amendment would  include costs  of implementing  a                 
  death penalty along with the advisory vote.                                  
                                                                               
  SENATOR TORGERSON objected.  There was brief discussion.                     
  A roll call  vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment                 
  IN FAVOR: Adams                                                              
  OPPOSED: Parnell, Donley, Phillips, Torgerson, Pearce, Sharp                 
  Amendment #1 FAILED by a vote of 1 to 6.                                     
                                                                               
  End of log notes.                                                            
                                                                               
  SENATOR  ADAMS   MOVED  Amendment  #2.    SENATOR  TORGERSON                 
  objected.  SENATOR ADAMS explained  that the amendment would                 
  give  voters  a  choice  of  alternatives  besides  a  death                 
  penalty.                                                                     
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on  the MOTION to adopt Amendment                 
  IN FAVOR: Adams                                                              
  OPPOSED: Torgerson, Parnell, Phillips, Donley, Pearce, Sharp                 
  Amendment #2 FAILED by a 6 to 1 vote.                                        
                                                                               
  SENATOR PHILLIPS expressed his problem with people's opinion                 
  that they  didn't trust the people of  the state to be smart                 
  enough to  make a decision  with an advisory  vote.  He  had                 
  more faith in  the people of  Alaska and believed they  were                 
  intelligent enough  to make  the right  choice.   Additional                 
  discussion followed regarding constituent polls on the death                 
  penalty.                                                                     
                                                                               
  SENATOR TORGERSON MOVED SB 60 from committee with individual                 
  recommendations and a previous fiscal note from the Division                 
  of  Elections  (3.0).    COCHAIR  SHARP  and  SENATOR  ADAMS                 
  objected.  SENATOR ADAMS spoke to  his objection.  There was                 
  discussion about including  costs on the proposition  and in                 
  educational pamphlets.   SENATOR PARNELL  stated that  there                 
  was no way to write a  ballot proposition that contained all                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  the costs involved.                                                          
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.                                    
  IN  FAVOR:  Torgerson,  Donley,  Phillips, Parnell,  Pearce,                 
  Sharp                                                                        
  OPPOSED: Adams                                                               
  SB 60  was REPORTED OUT  by a 6 to  1 vote, with  a previous                 
  fiscal note from the Division of Elections (3.0).                            
  SENATE BILL NO. 63                                                           
  "An  Act   providing  for  automatic   waiver  of   juvenile                 
  jurisdiction and prosecution of minors as adults for certain                 
  violations  of  laws by  minors  who use  deadly  weapons to                 
  commit  offenses  that  are  crimes  against a  person,  and                 
  relating to the sealing of the records of those minors."                     
                                                                               
  SENATOR  DONLEY, Sponsor, explained that SB  63 would add to                 
  existing  provisions for  automatic  waiver of  juveniles to                 
  adult court.   If  someone over  sixteen years  of age  were                 
  charged with using  a deadly weapon and  had previously been                 
  adjudicated as a delinquent  or convicted as an adult  for a                 
  similar or more serious crime, they would be waived to adult                 
  court.   He estimated that between six and eight individuals                 
  per year would fall into that category.                                      
                                                                               
  SENATOR  ADAMS  gave  examples of  different  scenarios  and                 
  inquired where a  teen would fall under the  new provisions.                 
  SENATOR DONLEY explained that there  were variables, such as                 
  if  they  had  been  previously  charged or  convicted,  and                 
  offered a sequence of events that would determine whether or                 
  not they would  be waived to adult  court.  He noted  a teen                 
  had to be sixteen or older.                                                  
                                                                               
  SENATOR  ADAMS  asked  for the  position  of  the governor's                 
  juvenile task force.  SENATOR DONLEY responded that they did                 
  not   support  additional   automatic   waivers  under   any                 
  circumstances.                                                               
                                                                               
  There was discussion about the  fiscal notes from the  Court                 
  System and the  Department of Corrections.   There was  also                 
  discussion about plans for additional juvenile incarceration                 
  facilities.                                                                  
                                                                               
  SENATOR ADAMS inquired about the administration's position.                  
                                                                               
  MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law,                 
  spoke on  behalf of the  Governor's Conference on  Youth and                 
  Justice.  The group had concluded that the age should not be                 
  lowered for automatic  waiver offenses nor should  the level                 
  of offenses be  lowered.  She stated that a  problem with SB
  63 was that it  allowed automatic waiver for the  first time                 
  for class  C and B felony offenses.   She noted that studies                 
  had shown that kids subjected  to automatic waiver re-offend                 
  sooner,  the  level of  offense is  higher  and there  was a                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  higher recidivism  rate.   She gave  examples of cases  that                 
  would fall under the provisions to illustrate the point that                 
  they were not the  types of people that would  be identified                 
  as the most  serious offenders.   The concern  was that  the                 
  automatic waiver put kids in with a group of "teachers" that                 
  would provide  an opportunity  to learn  even worse  habits.                 
  She summarized that the administration was opposed to SB 63.                 
                                                                               
  SENATOR DONLEY commented that the  testimony did not reflect                 
  the fact that there may be a  lot of people who would choose                 
  not to  re-offend if  they were  warned that  they would  be                 
  going to adult court next time.                                              
                                                                               
  COCHAIR   PEARCE  expressed   appreciation   for  the   case                 
  information provided and felt  it was a good example  of why                 
  the bill was needed.                                                         
                                                                               
  In  response to  a question  from  SENATOR ADAMS,  MS. KNUTH                 
  explained that the automatic waiver  law was responsible for                 
  194 of  218 youths currently  incarcerated and that  it cost                 
  more because of increased cases and  the need for a separate                 
  facility for those people.                                                   
                                                                               
  Addition  discussion ensued  between MS.  KNUTH and  SENATOR                 
  DONLEY.                                                                      
                                                                               
  BARBARA  BRINK,   Acting  Public  Defender,   Department  of                 
  Administration, testified that the assumption  that the bill                 
  would  improve  public safety  and  cut crime  bears further                 
  study.  She offered explanation of the  fiscal note provided                 
  by  her  agency, noting  that  processing through  the adult                 
  court was costlier than the juvenile delinquency arena.                      
                                                                               
  In response to a question from SENATOR ADAMS, SENATOR DONLEY                 
  explained that there  was not  a separate juvenile  facility                 
  within  the adult corrections  system, but they  try to keep                 
  teens separated or isolated.                                                 
                                                                               
  COCHAIR  SHARP called  for  further testimony  or  comments.                 
  There  being  none,  he  asked  for  the  pleasure  of   the                 
  committee.                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR DONLEY MOVED  SB 63  from committee with  individual                 
  recommendations and all  fiscal notes  except that from  the                 
  Department of Corrections.  SENATOR ADAMS objected.  COCHAIR                 
  SHARP brought up the fiscal notes and lengthy discussion was                 
  had  as  to   whether  to  include  the   fiscal  note  from                 
  Corrections because it included costs for new facilities.                    
                                                                               
  SENATOR DONLEY withdrew  and restated his motion  to include                 
  all  previously  published  fiscal notes  and  a  new Senate                 
  Finance  Committee   fiscal  note  for  the   Department  of                 
  Corrections (indeterminate).  SENATOR ADAMS objected.                        
                                                                               
                                                                               
  End SFC-97 #92, Side 1, Begin Side 2                                         
                                                                               
  Discussion  about  the  Corrections fiscal  note  continued.                 
  COCHAIR  SHARP directed  that  the Senate  Finance Committee                 
  fiscal  note  for  the Department  of  Corrections  would be                 
  indeterminate  with a  comment section explaining.   SENATOR                 
  DONLEY  incorporated  that  as  part  of his  MOTION.    The                 
  objection was maintained.                                                    
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.                                    
  IN FAVOR:  Parnell,  Donley,  Phillips,  Torgerson,  Pearce,                 
  Sharp                                                                        
  OPPOSED: Adams                                                               
  SB 63  was REPORTED OUT of  committee by a 6 to  1 vote with                 
  previous fiscal  notes from the Department of Administration                 
  (indeterminate) and the  Court System  (5.5), a zero  fiscal                 
  note from the Department of Public  Safety, and a new Senate                 
  Finance  Committee   fiscal  note  for   the  Department  of                 
  Corrections (indeterminate).                                                 
  SENATE BILL NO. 70                                                           
  "An  Act defining  the offenses of  unlawful discharge  of a                 
  firearm; and relating to the commission of those offenses by                 
  minors."                                                                     
                                                                               
  SENATOR DONLEY, Sponsor,  testified on  behalf of the  bill.                 
  He explained that the  bill created a class C felony for the                 
  discharge of a  firearm at a  building or dwelling, or  with                 
  reckless disregard to physical injury or damage to property.                 
  He further  explained that if it was  done as a drive-by, it                 
  was already a felony, but if a person got out of the car and                 
  fired, it was  not unless  there was over  $500 of  property                 
  damage done to the building.                                                 
                                                                               
  SENATOR  ADAMS  MOVED  CSSB  70(JUD)   from  committee  with                 
  individual recommendations.  Without objection, CSSB 70(JUD)                 
  was REPORTED OUT  with previous zero  fiscal notes from  the                 
  Department of Public Safety and the Department of Health and                 
  Social Services, a previous fiscal  note from the Department                 
  of  Law,  new  zero  fiscal  notes  from  the  Department of                 
  Corrections,  the Department  of  Administration (Office  of                 
  Public Advocacy) and the Court System, and a new fiscal note                 
  from the  Department of Administration (48.1 Public Defender                 
  Agency).                                                                     
                                                                               
  COCHAIR SHARP  made announcements  about upcoming  committee                 
  agendas.                                                                     
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  The meeting was adjourned at approximately 8:50 P.M.                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects