MINUTES SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE April 9, 1997 6:09 P.M. TAPES SFC-97, # 91, Sides 1 & 2 (000-590, 590-000) SFC-97, # 92, Sides 1 & 2 (000-590, 590-527) CALL TO ORDER Senator Bert Sharp, Cochair, Senate Finance Committee, reconvened the meeting at approximately 6:09 P.M. PRESENT In addition to COCHAIR SHARP, SENATORS PHILLIPS, TORGERSON, PARNELL and ADAMS were present when the meeting was reconvened. COCHAIR PEARCE and SENATOR DONLEY arrived as the meeting was in progress. Also Attending: SENATOR ROBIN TAYLOR; BRUCE CAMPBELL, Staff, Representative Pete Kelly; JULES TILESTON, Director, Division of Mining & Water Management, Department of Natural Resources; JAMES MCCOMAS, President, Alaskans Against the Death Penalty (AADP), Anchorage; SUSI GREGG FOWLER, Juneau; CHARLES CAMPBELL, Juneau; BARBARA BRINK, Acting Public Defender, Department of Administration; JOSH FINK, AADP; MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General; Department of Law; GUY BELL, Director, Division of Administrative Services, Department of Economic Development; MIKE NIZICH, Director, Division of Administrative Services, Office of the Governor; fiscal analysts and aides to committee members. Also Attending Via Teleconference: DUDLEY SHARP, Vice President, Justice for All, Houston, Texas; CATHY KAINER, Anchorage; HUGH FLEISCHER, Anchorage; BARBARA HOOD, Anchorage. SUMMARY INFORMATION HB 46 MINING CLAIMS ON PUBLIC LANDS BRUCE CAMPBELL testified on behalf of HB 46. SENATOR PARNELL MOVED Amendment #1. SENATOR ADAMS objected then withdrew his objection. Without further objection, Amendment #1 was ADOPTED. JULES TILESTON testified in support of HB 46. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED SCSCSHB 46(FIN) from committee with individual recommendations. Without objection, SCSCSHB 46(FIN) was REPORTED OUT with a new fiscal note (7.5) from the Department of Natural Resources. SB 60 ADVISORY VOTE ON CAPITAL PUNISHMENT SENATOR TAYLOR testified on behalf of the bill. DUDLEY SHARP testified in support via teleconference. Testimony opposed to SB 60 was heard from CATHY KAINER, HUGH FLEISCHER, BARBARA HOOD, JAMES MCCOMAS, SUSI GREGG FOWLER, CHARLES CAMPBELL, BARBARA BRINK and JOSH FINK. Information was provided by MARGOT KNUTH. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED Amendment #1. COCHAIR SHARP and SENATOR TORGERSON objected. Amendment #1 FAILED by a 6 to 1 vote. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED Amendment #2. SENATOR TORGERSON objected. Amendment #2 FAILED by a 6 to 1 vote. SENATOR TORGERSON MOVED SB 60 from committee with individual recommendations and a previous fiscal note from the Division of Elections (3.0). COCHAIR SHARP and SENATOR ADAMS objected. SB 60 was REPORTED OUT by a 6 to 1 vote, with a previous fiscal note from the Division of Elections (3.0). HB 75 APPROPRIATIONS: OPERATING BUDGET HB 76 APPROPRIATION: MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAM Finance Subcommittee close-outs were taken up for Department of Commerce and Economic Development (DCED) and Office of the Governor. SENATOR TORGERSON MOVED for incorporation of the DCED Subcommittee recommendations into HB 75 and HB 76. SENATOR ADAMS objected. Testimony from GUY BELL was heard. SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his objection. Without further objection, the DCED Subcommittee recommendations were ADOPTED and incorporated into HB 75 and HB 76. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED for incorporation of the Office of the Governor Subcommittee recommendations into HB 75 and HB 76, then objected to the motion. Testimony was heard from MIKE NIZICH. SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his objection. Without further objection, the Office of the Governor Subcommittee recommendations were incorporated into HB 75 and HB 76. SB 63 DEADLY WEAPON OFFENSES BY JUVENILES SENATOR DONLEY, Sponsor, testified on behalf of the bill. Also testifying were MARGOT KNUTH and BARBARA BRINK. SENATOR DONLEY MOVED SB 63 from committee with individual recommendations. There was discussion concerning fiscal notes. SENATOR DONLEY withdrew and restated his motion to include all previously published fiscal notes and a new Senate Finance Committee fiscal note for the Department of Corrections (indeterminate). SENATOR ADAMS objected. SB 63 was REPORTED OUT of committee by a 6 to 1 vote with previous fiscal notes from the Department of Administration (indeterminate) and the Court System (5.5), a zero fiscal note from the Department of Public Safety, and a new Senate Finance Committee fiscal note for the Department of Corrections (indeterminate). SB 70 UNLAWFUL DISCHARGE OF A FIREARM SENATOR DONLEY, Sponsor, testified on behalf of the bill. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED CSSB 70(JUD) from committee with individual recommendations. Without objection, CSSB 70(JUD) was REPORTED OUT with previous zero fiscal notes from the Department of Public Safety and the Department of Health and Social Services, a previous fiscal note from the Department of Law, new zero fiscal notes from the Department of Corrections, the Department of Administration (Office of Public Advocacy) and the Court System, and a new fiscal note from the Department of Administration (48.1 Public Defender Agency). CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 46(RES) "An Act relating to mining; and providing for an effective date." BRUCE CAMPBELL, Staff, Representative Pete Kelly, explained the bill to the committee. It was developed as part of an extensive review process conducted by large mining operations on state land such as Fort Knox, Illinois Creek and others. It was found there were areas in the code that could be more consistent. The bill amends the Title 27 mining code to allow coal miners wider access to federal funds for permitting related activities. It amends the Title 38 mining code to correct inconsistencies and reduce paperwork and establishes a 520 acre Petersville Recreational Mining Area. In response to a question from SENATOR ADAMS, MR. CAMPBELL referred to page 10, line 28 and explained that the calculation was rounded to the nearest five dollar units. SENATOR ADAMS inquired how HB 46 would stimulate mining activities in Alaska. MR. CAMPBELL replied that the bill did not have that broad of goal, it was intended more to provide consistency throughout the code. SENATOR ADAMS noted an amendment in committee files and asked for explanation. MR. CAMPBELL stated the amendment was a clarification of wording changes related to location, lease and permit, adding that there was no intent to revoke anyone's prior existing rights acquired through location, lease or permit. SENATOR PARNELL MOVED Amendment #1. SENATOR ADAMS objected and asked to hear from the department. JULES TILESTON, Director, Division of Mining & Water Management, Department of Natural Resources, testified in support of the amendment, stating it was a clean way to clarify the intent. SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his objection. Without further objection, Amendment #1 was ADOPTED. SENATOR ADAMS asked the department's overall position on HB 46. MR. TILESTON stated support and urged its passage. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED SCSCSHB 46(FIN) from committee with individual recommendations. Without objection, SCSCSHB 46(FIN) was REPORTED OUT with a new fiscal note (7.5) from the Department of Natural Resources. SENATE BILL NO. 60 "An Act providing for an advisory vote on the issue of capital punishment." SENATOR ROBIN TAYLOR, Sponsor of SB 60, addressed the committee. He stated the bill was intended to seek the advise of Alaska voters on the controversial issue of capital punishment. Passage of the bill would not impose the death penalty, it would place on the ballot the question of whether the legislature should enact a capital punishment law. SENATOR TAYLOR continued by reading his sponsor statement. SENATOR ADAMS commented that the sponsor knew his position on the death penalty. It did not deter crime, it killed innocent people, and discriminated against minorities and the poor. He drew attention to Amendment #1 which was before members, commenting that voters should know the cost, similar to the Frank Initiative. He invited individuals who would be testifying to comment on the amendment. SENATOR TAYLOR responded briefly, commenting that the death penalty was a warning and a deterrent to a class of offenders that would offend again. He added that there was no protection for corrections officers who guard people who have committed multiple homicides. He opposed the Frank Initiative approach, as it's only purpose was to kill the bill. He said there was no known basis for determining cost, but suggested Mr. Sharp, available via teleconference, could speak to it. COCHAIR SHARP called for teleconference testimony, asking witnesses to summarize their comments rather than getting in a long debate over the pros and cons of the bill. DUDLEY SHARP, Vice President, Justice for All, Houston, Texas, testified next. He brought up the issue of financial analysis, having reviewed the fiscal note. Texas, the leading executioner in the nation, had daily costs of incarceration of death row prisoners at $54 per day because most of the inmates work. He referred to capital cost for a death house in the fiscal note and commented that Texas did not even build one, they just converted a room into an execution facility. He supported having two defense attorneys for each case as advised in the fiscal note. An additional item not taken into consideration was where the fiscal note speculates an average of ten years between sentence and execution. He stated that it totally negated the efforts made at the state and federal level to restrict abuse of the writ of habeas corpus. He rebutted an earlier statement that there was no evidence that the death penalty deterred crime. He stated that the moral decision was whether to save or sacrifice innocent lives. MR. SHARP summarized that the fiscal note needed additional work, the death penalty would save innocent lives, deter crime and provide additional punishment for an additional crime of murder. The following individuals testified from Anchorage via teleconference. CATHY KAINER spoke in opposition to the bill. She stated the death penalty cost more than life imprisonment and cited sources. She believed the sponsor was asking the public to vote on their opinion on a subject on which they have very little knowledge, particularly the cost. She stated the death penalty experiment was failing in all 38 states that have it and that states without the death penalty generally had lower murder rates. Texas and Florida, the two states with the highest number of executions, had some of the highest murder rates in the country. A 1995 national poll of police chiefs revealed that they did not believe the death penalty was effective in fighting crime. HUGH FLEISCHER testified in opposition to SB 60. He stated the bill was an abdication of the responsibility of the legislature by putting it before the public for a vote. He believed the costs must be provided, citing a figure of $50 million. BARBARA HOOD opposed SB 60. She encouraged the committee to insure that any debate on the death penalty be an informed debate, but the legislation did nothing to insure that. She gave an example from a New York poll that showed 57 percent of respondents believed the death penalty would deter crime, yet a study of executions over the past century found that murders rose in the months following an execution. She stated that it didn't cost less to execute. Many states spend six times more to execute than to keep them in prison for life. COCHAIR SHARP invited testimony from those present in Juneau next. JAMES MCCOMAS, President, Alaskans Against the Death Penalty (AADP), Anchorage, testified that there were five reasons to vote no on an advisory vote. First, there was no reason to have the death penalty, it wouldn't be cheaper, deter crime or make it safer. Second, the results of an advisory vote would represent public misinformation because Alaskans didn't know much about the issue. He cited statistics to support his statement. Third, it was the legislature's responsibility to stop bad public policy and not put every controversial issue before a public advisory vote. Fourth, an advisory vote meant politics, not policy, would determine whether or not we have the death penalty. Fifth, a vote could only establish popularity of the issue, it couldn't change any of the facts, costs or effect on crime. MR. MCCOMAS added that in territorial days, 75 percent of those executed were Native Alaskans or African-Americans, even though they only committed 25 percent of the murders. He summarized that it would be applied to the poor, it would result in mistaken convictions and widen the gap between diversities thereby polarizing society. In response to a question from SENATOR ADAMS, he believed disclosure of the cost was important. SUSI GREGG FOWLER of Juneau stated that fear was a motivator for people to support an idea like the death penalty. The legislature was in a position to give people accurate information. The real cost was in human energy and resources in defining sides. MS. FOWLER testified that recently members of her husband's family were murdered in another state. She wanted the killer caught, but did not want a death penalty because it would not bring healing or restore the lost lives. She did not want people to kill for her. End SFC-97 #91, Side 1, Begin Side 2 CHARLES CAMPBELL of Juneau testified that he was past director of Corrections and had 45 years in that field. He stated there was overwhelming consensus that there was no proof that the death penalty had a deterrent effect. It may have an opposite effect according to the 1969 study of New York previously mentioned which postulated that publicized executions were inclined to incite persons predisposed to violent crime. MR. CAMPBELL believed the death penalty was destructive to families of victims because it delayed closure by an average of eleven years. He urged a no vote. SENATOR ADAMS inquired if MR. CAMPBELL knew why the American Bar Association was asking for the termination of executions in the United States. MR. CAMPBELL responded that there were four reasons cited as to why the death penalty was not working. One had to do with unmistakable racial bias, another was failure of the defendants to have adequate representation. There was additional discussion about other options that could be provided on an advisory vote. The presence of COCHAIR PEARCE was noted. BARBARA BRINK, Acting Public Defender, Department of Administration, testified next regarding the fiscal note she submitted that detailed what would be anticipated. She also spoke to the use of an advisory ballot to ascertain majority opinion. She expressed concern with allowing a policy vote by the general public because majority opinion did not necessarily make good public policy, citing slavery and school segregation as examples. In addition, an advisory vote could create a more difficult position politically because the legislature could determine the death penalty was not good for the state. She urged the legislature not to encourage the public set to criminal policy and called this the most complicated criminal justice issue any state could grapple with. MS. BRINK continued her testimony with an explanation about the fiscal note. She said that it dealt with the average rather than the anomalous case. The Department of Law predicted ten cases per year. She concluded her remarks by saying the fiscal note was rather conservative and stating her opinion that the public be informed of the fiscal impact. She believed it would cost a lot of money for very little in return and urged that it not be proposed to the public as if it were a viable alternative. COCHAIR SHARP inquired who requested the fiscal note. MS. BRINK responded that it originated from the Department of Administration. There was brief discussion about the indeterminate nature of the fiscal note. SENATOR ADAMS asked for examples of the average cost of execution in other states. MS. BRINK responded that the cost in North Carolina was $2.16 million per execution above the cost of life imprisonment. In California, it was $90 million annually, $78 million of which was the trial level cost. Florida had 18 executions between 1973 and 1988 for a cost of $3.2 million each. Texas was estimated at $2.3 million, about three times the cost of life imprisonment. SENATOR DONLEY questioned the cost comparisons and MS. BRINK acknowledged that each state counts costs differently. JOSH FINK, AADP, testified against the bill. He made the point that it was a complex and multi-faceted issue that should be decided by the legislature because Alaska was a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. An advisory vote was a bad idea because it would be based on fear, anger and misinformation thereby hamstringing the legislature and limiting options. He pointed out that there had been numerous issues facing the state for years but they had not been put to an advisory vote. SENATOR PHILLIPS noted that there had been advisory votes on a few issues such as a unicameral legislature, the capital move and longevity bonus annuities. MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law, was available for questions. She noted that there had been no loss of lives in Alaska institutions in response to an earlier comment. SENATOR TAYLOR made a few statements regarding the testimony. He was disturbed by comments regarding racial bias in the system and said it was a myth. He cited studies that supported his statement. SENATOR ADAMS rebutted his comments, stating that documentation showed that in territorial Alaska 75 percent of those executed were Alaska Natives. SENATOR TAYLOR did not dispute the numbers but commented that it was only three or four people. He reiterated his point that all the legislation was asking for was an advisory opinion. COCHAIR SHARP announced that after a brief recess, COCHAIR PEARCE would reconvene the meeting and take up the operating budget close-outs, after which he would continue with SB 60 and other scheduled bills. Recess at 7:19 P.M. Reconvene at 7:30 P.M. CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 75(FIN) am(brf sup maj pfld) "An Act making appropriations for the operating and loan program expenses of state government, for certain programs, and to capitalize funds; making an appropriation under art. IX, sec. 17(c), Constitution of the State of Alaska, from the constitutional budget reserve fund; and providing for an effective date." CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 76(FIN) "An Act making appropriations for the operating and capital expenses of the state's integrated comprehensive mental health program; and providing for an effective date." COCHAIR PEARCE reconvened the meeting to take up close-outs for the Department of Commerce and Economic Development (DCED) and the Governor's Office. She noted that DCED did not include the Divisions of Trade Development and Tourism because they had been included under a different subcommittee headed by Senator Donley. SENATOR TORGERSON had chaired the subcommittee on DCED. He provided a handout to members to illustrate the subcommittee's recommendations. He called attention to an executive order that transferred the Measurements and Standards component to the Department of Transportation. The only reduction was for $84.8 thousand in the office of the commissioner for a vacant position which may not be vacant after all. He indicated there could be a forthcoming amendment. SENATOR TORGERSON MOVED for incorporation of the DCED Subcommittee recommendations into HB 75 and HB 76. SENATOR ADAMS objected. SENATOR PHILLIPS inquired about the location of activity within the Division of Insurance. GUY BELL, Director, Division of Administrative Services, Department of Economic Development, responded that there was a balance of staff between the Anchorage office and the Juneau office. There was additional discussion about where the business was generated from and the travel involved. SENATOR DONLEY inquired about the reason for a half-million dollar decrease in the governor's budget. MR. BELL responded that the Divisions of Insurance and Occupational Licensing had been authorized to roll forward from FY 96 to FY 97. SENATOR ADAMS removed his objection. Without further objection, the DCED Subcommittee recommendations were ADOPTED and incorporated into HB 75 and HB 76. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED for incorporation of the Office of the Governor Subcommittee recommendations into HB 75 and HB 76, then objected to the motion. COCHAIR PEARCE pointed out that the only change was a reduction of $60 thousand for executive operations that conformed to that made to the DEC budget for the contracted environmental law position. The governor had incorporated about $960 thousand of carry-forward funds. SENATOR ADAMS brought up a concern that the North Slope Development promotion was missing from the budget. He thought the committee should continue efforts to get ANWR open. COCHAIR PEARCE asked if the governor's office had identified a reappropriation for that. MIKE NIZICH, Director, Division of Administrative Services, Office of the Governor, responded that there was recent discussion about North Slope development but the funding and level had not yet been identified. It was anticipated shortly and he would inform the cochair. Discussion followed between SENATOR DONLEY, SENATOR ADAMS and COCHAIR PEARCE about the governor's contingency fund, lapsed funds and carry-forward funds. End SFC-97 #91, Side 2 Begin SFC-97 #92, Side 1 SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his objection. Without further objection, the Office of the Governor Subcommittee recommendations were incorporated into HB 75 and HB 76. COCHAIR PEARCE announced upcoming close-out agendas and briefly recessed the meeting. COCHAIR SHARP reconvened the meeting and took up SB 60. SENATE BILL NO. 60 "An Act providing for an advisory vote on the issue of capital punishment." A small portion of the meeting was not recorded because of technical error. The following was taken from log notes. SENATOR ADAMS moved Amendment #1 and offered an explanation that the amendment would include costs of implementing a death penalty along with the advisory vote. SENATOR TORGERSON objected. There was brief discussion. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment IN FAVOR: Adams OPPOSED: Parnell, Donley, Phillips, Torgerson, Pearce, Sharp Amendment #1 FAILED by a vote of 1 to 6. End of log notes. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED Amendment #2. SENATOR TORGERSON objected. SENATOR ADAMS explained that the amendment would give voters a choice of alternatives besides a death penalty. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment IN FAVOR: Adams OPPOSED: Torgerson, Parnell, Phillips, Donley, Pearce, Sharp Amendment #2 FAILED by a 6 to 1 vote. SENATOR PHILLIPS expressed his problem with people's opinion that they didn't trust the people of the state to be smart enough to make a decision with an advisory vote. He had more faith in the people of Alaska and believed they were intelligent enough to make the right choice. Additional discussion followed regarding constituent polls on the death penalty. SENATOR TORGERSON MOVED SB 60 from committee with individual recommendations and a previous fiscal note from the Division of Elections (3.0). COCHAIR SHARP and SENATOR ADAMS objected. SENATOR ADAMS spoke to his objection. There was discussion about including costs on the proposition and in educational pamphlets. SENATOR PARNELL stated that there was no way to write a ballot proposition that contained all the costs involved. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION. IN FAVOR: Torgerson, Donley, Phillips, Parnell, Pearce, Sharp OPPOSED: Adams SB 60 was REPORTED OUT by a 6 to 1 vote, with a previous fiscal note from the Division of Elections (3.0). SENATE BILL NO. 63 "An Act providing for automatic waiver of juvenile jurisdiction and prosecution of minors as adults for certain violations of laws by minors who use deadly weapons to commit offenses that are crimes against a person, and relating to the sealing of the records of those minors." SENATOR DONLEY, Sponsor, explained that SB 63 would add to existing provisions for automatic waiver of juveniles to adult court. If someone over sixteen years of age were charged with using a deadly weapon and had previously been adjudicated as a delinquent or convicted as an adult for a similar or more serious crime, they would be waived to adult court. He estimated that between six and eight individuals per year would fall into that category. SENATOR ADAMS gave examples of different scenarios and inquired where a teen would fall under the new provisions. SENATOR DONLEY explained that there were variables, such as if they had been previously charged or convicted, and offered a sequence of events that would determine whether or not they would be waived to adult court. He noted a teen had to be sixteen or older. SENATOR ADAMS asked for the position of the governor's juvenile task force. SENATOR DONLEY responded that they did not support additional automatic waivers under any circumstances. There was discussion about the fiscal notes from the Court System and the Department of Corrections. There was also discussion about plans for additional juvenile incarceration facilities. SENATOR ADAMS inquired about the administration's position. MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law, spoke on behalf of the Governor's Conference on Youth and Justice. The group had concluded that the age should not be lowered for automatic waiver offenses nor should the level of offenses be lowered. She stated that a problem with SB 63 was that it allowed automatic waiver for the first time for class C and B felony offenses. She noted that studies had shown that kids subjected to automatic waiver re-offend sooner, the level of offense is higher and there was a higher recidivism rate. She gave examples of cases that would fall under the provisions to illustrate the point that they were not the types of people that would be identified as the most serious offenders. The concern was that the automatic waiver put kids in with a group of "teachers" that would provide an opportunity to learn even worse habits. She summarized that the administration was opposed to SB 63. SENATOR DONLEY commented that the testimony did not reflect the fact that there may be a lot of people who would choose not to re-offend if they were warned that they would be going to adult court next time. COCHAIR PEARCE expressed appreciation for the case information provided and felt it was a good example of why the bill was needed. In response to a question from SENATOR ADAMS, MS. KNUTH explained that the automatic waiver law was responsible for 194 of 218 youths currently incarcerated and that it cost more because of increased cases and the need for a separate facility for those people. Addition discussion ensued between MS. KNUTH and SENATOR DONLEY. BARBARA BRINK, Acting Public Defender, Department of Administration, testified that the assumption that the bill would improve public safety and cut crime bears further study. She offered explanation of the fiscal note provided by her agency, noting that processing through the adult court was costlier than the juvenile delinquency arena. In response to a question from SENATOR ADAMS, SENATOR DONLEY explained that there was not a separate juvenile facility within the adult corrections system, but they try to keep teens separated or isolated. COCHAIR SHARP called for further testimony or comments. There being none, he asked for the pleasure of the committee. SENATOR DONLEY MOVED SB 63 from committee with individual recommendations and all fiscal notes except that from the Department of Corrections. SENATOR ADAMS objected. COCHAIR SHARP brought up the fiscal notes and lengthy discussion was had as to whether to include the fiscal note from Corrections because it included costs for new facilities. SENATOR DONLEY withdrew and restated his motion to include all previously published fiscal notes and a new Senate Finance Committee fiscal note for the Department of Corrections (indeterminate). SENATOR ADAMS objected. End SFC-97 #92, Side 1, Begin Side 2 Discussion about the Corrections fiscal note continued. COCHAIR SHARP directed that the Senate Finance Committee fiscal note for the Department of Corrections would be indeterminate with a comment section explaining. SENATOR DONLEY incorporated that as part of his MOTION. The objection was maintained. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION. IN FAVOR: Parnell, Donley, Phillips, Torgerson, Pearce, Sharp OPPOSED: Adams SB 63 was REPORTED OUT of committee by a 6 to 1 vote with previous fiscal notes from the Department of Administration (indeterminate) and the Court System (5.5), a zero fiscal note from the Department of Public Safety, and a new Senate Finance Committee fiscal note for the Department of Corrections (indeterminate). SENATE BILL NO. 70 "An Act defining the offenses of unlawful discharge of a firearm; and relating to the commission of those offenses by minors." SENATOR DONLEY, Sponsor, testified on behalf of the bill. He explained that the bill created a class C felony for the discharge of a firearm at a building or dwelling, or with reckless disregard to physical injury or damage to property. He further explained that if it was done as a drive-by, it was already a felony, but if a person got out of the car and fired, it was not unless there was over $500 of property damage done to the building. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED CSSB 70(JUD) from committee with individual recommendations. Without objection, CSSB 70(JUD) was REPORTED OUT with previous zero fiscal notes from the Department of Public Safety and the Department of Health and Social Services, a previous fiscal note from the Department of Law, new zero fiscal notes from the Department of Corrections, the Department of Administration (Office of Public Advocacy) and the Court System, and a new fiscal note from the Department of Administration (48.1 Public Defender Agency). COCHAIR SHARP made announcements about upcoming committee agendas. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at approximately 8:50 P.M.