Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/08/1998 01:13 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
         HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                    
                   April 8, 1998                                               
                     1:13 p.m.                                                 
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
Representative Joe Green, Chairman                                             
Representative Con Bunde, Vice Chairman                                        
Representative Brian Porter                                                    
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                 
Representative Jeannette James                                                 
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
Representative Eric Croft                                                      
Representative Ethan Berkowitz                                                 
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
* HOUSE BILL NO. 473                                                           
"An Act relating to training and certification of fire fighters,               
fire instructors, and certain emergency responders; and providing              
for an effective date."                                                        
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                          
* HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 60                                                
Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska                
relating to the community dividend fund, the permanent fund, and               
the budget reserve fund.                                                       
     - MOVED HJR 60 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
* HOUSE BILL NO. 474                                                           
"An Act relating to correctional officers."                                    
     - MOVED HB 474 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
(* First public hearing)                                                       
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                
BILL:  HB 473                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: FIRE TRAINING AND CERTIFICATION                                   
SPONSOR(S): STATE AFFAIRS                                                      
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                          
 3/24/98      2722     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                  
 3/24/98      2723     (H)  JUDICIARY                                          
 4/08/98               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                        
BILL: HJR 60                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: COMMUNITY DIVIDEND FUND                                           
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) DAVIS                                           
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                          
 2/16/98      2328     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                  
 2/16/98      2328     (H)  JUDICIARY, FINANCE                                 
 3/11/98               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                        
 3/11/98               (H)  MINUTE(JUD)                                        
 4/08/98               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                        
BILL: HB 474                                                                   
SPONSOR(S): JUDICIARY                                                          
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                          
 3/27/98      2770     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                  
 3/27/98      2770     (H)  JUDICIARY                                          
 4/08/98               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                        
WITNESS REGISTER                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE MARK HODGINS                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                       
Capitol Building, Room 110                                                     
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 465-3779                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 473.                                        
JOHN WILLIAMS, Mayor                                                           
City of Kenai                                                                  
210 Fidalgo                                                                    
Kenai, Alaska 99611                                                            
Telephone:  (907) 283-7539                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 473.  Testified in               
                     support of HJR 60.                                        
DEL SMITH, Deputy Commissioner                                                 
Department of Public Safety                                                    
P.O. Box 111200                                                                
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200                                                      
Telephone:  (907) 465-4322                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 473.                             
CRAIG GOODRICH, Director State Fire Marshal                                    
Division of Fire Prevention                                                    
Department of Public Safety                                                    
5700 East Tudor Road                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska 99507-1225                                                   
Telephone:  (907) 269-5491                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 473.                             
KEVIN KELLY, Member                                                            
Rural Deltana Fire Department;                                                 
Vice President, Rural Deltana Fire Protection District                         
P.O. Box 40                                                                    
Delta Junction, Alaska 99737                                                   
Telephone:  (907) 869-3301                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 473.                             
AUDREY BROWN, Member                                                           
Rural Deltana Fire Department                                                  
P.O. Box 990                                                                   
Delta Junction, Alaska 99737                                                   
Telephone:  (907) 895-4537                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 473.                             
MICHAEL McGOWAN, President                                                     
Alaska Fire Chiefs Association                                                 
1460 Old Richardson Highway                                                    
Fairbanks, Alaska 99705                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 474-7916                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 473.                             
DAVID TYLER                                                                    
P.O. Box 3023                                                                  
Homer, Alaska 99603                                                            
Telephone:  (907) 235-3155                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 473.                             
DAVID SQUIRES                                                                  
P.O. Box 176                                                                   
Seward, Alaska 99664                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 224-3445                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 473.                             
JASON ELSON                                                                    
210 Fidalgo                                                                    
Kenai, Alaska 99611                                                            
Telephone:  (907) 283-7666                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 473.                           
SCOTT WALDEN                                                                   
210 Fidalgo                                                                    
Kenai, Alaska 99611                                                            
Telephone:  (907) 283-7666                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 473.                           
DAVE BURNETT                                                                   
P.O. Box 3670                                                                  
Kenai, Alaska 99611                                                            
Telephone:  (907) 283-3054                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 473.                             
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS                                                      
Alaska State Legislature                                                       
Capitol Building, Room 513                                                     
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 465-2693                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HJR 60.                                        
DEB DAVIDSON, Legislative Administrative Assistant                             
  to Representative Gary Davis                                                 
Alaska State Legislature                                                       
Capitol Building, Room 513                                                     
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 465-2693                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered question on HJR 60.                              
GEORGE CARNAHAN                                                                
P.O. Box 8202                                                                  
Kenai, Alaska 99611                                                            
Telephone:  (907) 776-5570                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HJR 60.                                 
KEVIN RITCHIE, Executive Director                                              
Alaska Municipal League                                                        
217 Second Street                                                              
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 586-1325                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HJR 60.                           
LADDIE SHAW, Executive Director                                                
Alaska Police Standards Council                                                
P.O. Box 111200                                                                
Juneau, Alaska  99811-1200                                                     
Telephone:  (907) 465-4378                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered question on HB 474.                              
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                               
TAPE 98-58, SIDE A                                                             
Number 0001                                                                    
CHAIRMAN JOE GREEN called the House Judiciary Standing Committee               
meeting to order at 1:13 p.m.  Members present at the call to order            
were Representatives Green, Bunde, Porter and James.                           
Representative Rokeberg arrived at 1:40 p.m.                                   
HB 473 - FIRE TRAINING AND CERTIFICATION                                       
Number 0037                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN announced the first item of business would be HB
473, "An Act relating to training and certification of fire                    
fighters, fire instructors, and certain emergency responders; and              
providing for an effective date."                                              
CHAIRMAN GREEN called on Representative Mark Hodgins, sponsor of               
the bill.                                                                      
Number 0057                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE MARK HODGINS, Alaska State Legislature, explained               
the Alaska Fire Chiefs Association came forward and asked him for              
some legislation.  It was after the cutoff for individuals to                  
sponsor bills, therefore, he had the House State Affairs Standing              
Committee sponsor it.  The association wants to set up a system                
similar to the Alaska Police Standards Council for firefighters.               
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS further stated he has an amendment that                 
would shorten the bill.  The firefighters support the amendment.               
The bill would probably not go through if there is a fiscal note,              
therefore, the firefighters would like to see it put into statute              
and they will develop the revenue means to set the standards and               
operate the council through the local municipalities.                          
Number 0176                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Representative Hodgins whether he has                     
discussed this with the Department of Public Safety that has                   
submitted the fiscal note.                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS replied, "Yes."                                         
CHAIRMAN GREEN wondered whether the department is willing to                   
withdraw its fiscal note.                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS replied, "We'll wait and see."                          
CHAIRMAN GREEN noted for the record Representatives Bunde, James,              
Green and Porter are present for a quorum.                                     
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked Chairman Green when he would like him             
to offer the amendment.                                                        
CHAIRMAN GREEN replied it is his pleasure.  He asked Representative            
Hodgins whether the amendment significantly changes what is before             
the committee.                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS replied, "No."                                          
Number 0260                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS explained Amendment 1.  It reads as follows:            
     TO:  CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 473, Draft version "E"                         
          Page 1, line 1                                                       
               Delete "fighters and fire instructors"                          
               Insert "service professionals"                                  
          Page 1, line 5                                                       
               Delete "Fighters"                                               
          Page 2, line 31                                                      
               Insert "approve and/or"                                         
          Page 3, line 3                                                       
               Insert "approve and/or"                                         
          Page 3, line 21                                                      
               Delete "fighters and fire instructors"                          
          Page 3, line 23 - 31                                                 
               Delete all                                                      
          Page 4, line 1 - 31                                                  
               Delete all                                                      
          Page 5, line 1 - 15                                                  
               Delete all                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS explained the amendment would change the                
title to read, "An Act relating to training and certification of               
fire service professionals and providing for an effective date."               
It would delete the wording "fighters" and "fire instructors" from             
the title.                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS explained on page 1, line 5, the word                   
"Fighters" would be deleted.                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS explained on page 2, line 31, the wording               
"approve and/or" would be added.                                               
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS explained on page 3, line 3, the wording                
"approve and/or" would be added.                                               
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS explained on page 3, line 21, the wording               
"fighters and fire instructor" would be deleted.                               
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS explained on page 3, line 23 through page 5,            
line 15, all wording would be deleted thereby removing the                     
definitions and directions.  Basically, the Alaska Fire Chiefs                 
Association wants to meet as a council and figure out what                     
direction it wants to go and take.                                             
Number 0399                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE made a motion to adopt Amendment 1.                   
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES objected for discussion purposes.               
Number 0409                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES referred to page 2, starting on line 31, and              
asked Representative Hodgins whether the language "fire fighter or             
fire instructor" should be left, or should it read "fire                       
professionals."  The amendment changes other references to the                 
wording "fire fighter or fire instructor."  It is also referred to             
in more places.                                                                
Number 0430                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS replied he would like to leave the wording              
Number 0466                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER stated the language being deleted seems            
to be the essence of the bill.  A person cannot be appointed a fire            
fighter or fire instructor unless certified.  He asked                         
Representative Hodgins whether he is suggesting that it be left to             
Number 0487                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS replied he just received the amendment a                
half hour ago.  He feels a little bit uncomfortable removing all of            
this, but the Alaska Fire Chiefs Association wants to.                         
Number 0523                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER stated he is generally familiar with this                
area having served for ten years on the Alaska Police Standards                
Council.  He thinks what is being deleted is the part of public                
policy that should be established by the legislature - the                     
standards.  Certainly, the recommendation should come from the                 
professionals, but the establishment of the policy should come from            
the legislature.  He does not have a problem receiving a                       
recommendation from the Alaska Fire Chiefs Association, but it                 
should be adopted by the legislature.                                          
Number 0618                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked Chairman Green whether it is possible to            
put the amendment away until testimony is given on the bill.                   
CHAIRMAN GREEN replied that would be...                                        
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS agreed to do it that way.                               
Number 0653                                                                    
JOHN WILLIAMS, Mayor, City of Kenai, testified via teleconference              
in Kenai.  He noted that Dave Burnett is here, a 27-year member of             
the fire department and chief executive officer for the new fire               
training institute.  He also noted that Jason Elson and Scott                  
Walden are here from the fire department.  He said he has been very            
pleased to have been part of the development of the bill over the              
last several months.                                                           
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Mr. Williams whether he can speak to the                  
MR. WILLIAMS replied he just received the committee substitute.                
Number 0767                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES made a motion to adopt the proposed committee             
substitute for HB 473, Version E, 0-LS1650\E, Lauterbach, 3/25/98.             
There being no objection, it was so adopted.                                   
Number 0798                                                                    
DEL SMITH, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Public Safety,                   
explained Mayor Williams and the fire chief from Kenai talked to               
the commissioner and himself about establishing standards at which             
time the police standards model was suggested.  It has made sense              
for the police and has improved the quality of officers.  Having               
said that, Commissioner Otte's concern is the placement of the                 
council within the Department of Public Safety.  The department has            
within it the fire marshall who is the chief building inspector for            
the state.  Otherwise, the department has little to do with fire               
service and actual fire fighting.  If this is going to be created,             
he suggested including it in another department rather than                    
automatically putting it inside the Department of Public Safety                
just because it falls within the broad view of public safety.  His             
main objection to that is the fiscal note of $178,000, which                   
includes an executive director, an office, and clerical support.               
Given the cap system since he has been a deputy commissioner, if               
there is an increase of a function within the department something             
has to go out the door to stay under the cap.  Neither the                     
commissioner nor he is willing to trade troopers, clerical support,            
or fingerprint expertise for something at this point in time.  The             
department supports the concept, however.  It is extremely                     
important for firemen to have a minimum amount of training along               
with standards.  He just questions whether it is appropriately                 
placed within the Department of Public Safety.  He has some                    
concerns about creating a law and not funding it on speculation.               
Number 0941                                                                    
CRAIG GOODRICH, Director State Fire Marshal, Division of Fire                  
Prevention, Department of Public Safety, testified via                         
teleconference in Anchorage.  He stated the department is concerned            
about the fiscal note and its impact on the department.  The funds             
will need to be provided in order to provide the necessary support.            
However, if the bill included language articulating funding outside            
of the legislature, for example, then it would lessen its impact on            
the department.                                                                
Number 1033                                                                    
KEVIN KELLY, Member, Rural Deltana Fire Department; Vice President,            
Rural Deltana Fire Protection District, testified via                          
teleconference from Delta Junction.  He noted he has Version B of              
the bill and is concerned about the volunteer fire departments,                
especially in rural areas, attempting to attain the standards set              
out by the Alaska Fire Chiefs Association.  It would be extremely              
difficult for Delta Junction because of the number of hours of                 
mandatory annual training.  The vast majority of Alaska is covered             
by volunteers.  Delta Junction's coverage area within its district             
is about 50 miles north-south and 35 miles east-west.  There are               
two fire stations and about 26 volunteers.  Delta Junction also                
responds to some parts outside of its district that have no                    
coverage whatsoever.  Version "B" of the bill would put an end to              
any fire coverage by volunteers throughout the Delta Junction area             
and other rural areas.                                                         
Number 1115                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS noted that further testimony from Kenai will            
answer a lot of the questions.                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Mr. Kelly whether the current standards             
for volunteers are local standards or are there statewide                      
MR. KELLY replied Delta Junction tries to follow the National Fire             
Protection Association's (NFPA) standards as close as possible.  He            
suggested hearing from Audrey Brown to answer some of those types              
of questions.                                                                  
Number 1153                                                                    
AUDREY BROWN, Member, Rural Deltana Fire Department, testified via             
teleconference in Delta Junction.  She has been a member of the                
Rural Deltana Fire Department for about three years and was also a             
member in the mid-1980s.  She is also a emergency medical                      
technician (EMT) I in Delta Junction and certified through the                 
state.  She also has a law office and private practice in Delta                
Junction.  The fire department has primary funds for fire                      
protection for the entire area, including 50 miles down the Alaska             
Highway towards Tok, 35 miles north on the Richardson Highway                  
towards Birch Lake, and 65 miles south of the Richardson Highway               
towards Paxson.  The fire department is composed of volunteers with            
a wide age range of folks.  Most are employed at full-time jobs.               
The fire department trains for skills regularly needed for fire                
situations typically encountered - water supply, engineering,                  
extricating, and general fire fighting situations.  In addition,               
the fire department participates annually in training offered by               
the local Department of Natural Resource's forestry office.  If                
Version "B" is passed, it would effectively shut down the                      
department.  In addition, if the department does not meet the                  
standards by July 1, 1999, and responds to a fire, everyone would              
be guilty of committing a misdemeanor.                                         
CHAIRMAN GREEN announced the Version E of the bill is in route to              
all the teleconference sites.                                                  
Number 1266                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Ms. Brown as an EMT I whether she has to            
pursue a state sanctioned certificate.                                         
MS. BROWN replied, "Yes."  The training is offered in Delta                    
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated he would expect the same standards from            
a firefighter, even a volunteer firefighter.  He asked Ms. Brown               
whether she can see the value of some statewide minimum amount of              
MS. BROWN replied she can see value to some statewide minimum                  
amount of standards.  However, the current training program is                 
providing the skills needed.  These are skills that are not                    
necessarily included in firefighter-I training, but are absolutely             
necessary in Delta Junction.  She agrees that there should be some             
amount of minimum skills, but she does not agree with adopting                 
national skills that are applicable to New York City, for example,             
without considering the additional training needed for rural                   
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Ms. Brown whether it would be fair to               
say that she would like state standards, but ones that take into               
consideration Alaska's unique concerns.                                        
MS. BROWN replied, "Yes."  The unique concerns of Delta Junction               
are quite different than Kenai, Anchorage, or Fairbanks, for                   
example.  Delta Junction's volunteers work full time, and the NFPA             
requirements are an impossibility for a great number of folks.  She            
reiterated there already is mandated training in Delta Junction                
tailored to meet its needs.                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated he didn't mean to indicate Alaska's                
unique standards.  He meant statewide standards and the variety of             
situations that firefighters might find themselves in.                         
Number 1400                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Ms. Brown whether the training should be in               
the locales which would add a significant amount to the cost, or               
whether there should be a central place for training.                          
MS. BROWN replied, if volunteers were mandated to go to a                      
particular place for training, Delta Junction would probably loose             
most of the volunteers.  She reiterated the training is done                   
specifically for the needs of Delta Junction.  For example, there              
are many volunteers who are in different stages of their training.             
Number 1503                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Ms. Brown whether the training is done by                 
certified trainers.                                                            
MS. BROWN replied, "No."                                                       
Number 1465                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER noted the Alaska Police Standards Council                
requires basic instruction within the first year of employment.                
There isn't a requirement for auxiliary officers or reserve                    
officers which are tantamount to volunteer firefighters.  The                  
training received is standardized, but there is the ability of any             
rural department to submit a training syllabus to the council for              
certification that can be implemented locally.                                 
Number 1503                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN stated there is a basic manual common to everybody              
with a chapter or two specified for each area.                                 
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER stated there probably are basic firefighter              
qualifications that can be established relevant to everyone.  Then,            
from that point forward, based on locales, there can be in-service             
training for special needs.                                                    
Number 1532                                                                    
MICHAEL McGOWAN, President, Alaska Fire Chiefs Association,                    
testified via teleconference in Fairbanks.  The association is not             
advocating that the NFPA standards be the only standards,                      
especially in rural Alaska.  The association is well aware that                
firefighter-I standards are too much for smaller departments to                
meet.  The association is advocating for a firefighters standards              
council to be established.  There are NFPA and other standards that            
would allow smaller departments to adopt an incipient fire                     
department.  They would not make entries into building, for                    
example.  The association is also aware that there are a lot of                
volunteers.  It is not advocating that the standards be mandatory              
like the police standards for employment.                                      
Number 1606                                                                    
DAVID TYLER testified via teleconference in Homer.  The term "fire             
service professionals" applies to everybody.  Part of the reason               
behind the legislation is to help get some training into the rural             
areas.  The Alaska Fire Chiefs Association recognizes that the                 
Rural Deltana Fire Department doesn't have the need to train for               
high-rise fire fighting, for example.  The idea for standards is to            
get the state on an even keel.  This is why he is supporting the               
bill - a better level of training statewide.  The training could               
still be done in Delta Junction, but the curriculum and direction              
would be supplied for their needs.                                             
Number 1690                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked whether there is anyone on the teleconference             
network that can speak to the amendment deleting the last few pages            
of the bill.                                                                   
MR. TYLER explained part of the reason is to take areas like                   
Deltana into consideration and to provide for their needs.                     
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if those sections of the bill were deleted and            
the required training was left to the local areas rather than                  
leaving 90 percent of the training uniformed and 10 percent                    
specialized for an area, would the intent of the bill be negated.              
MR. TYLER replied, "No."  The council would have to approve the                
training programs for a local area.                                            
Number 1777                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE referred to the Alaska firefighters and fire              
instructions fund, and stated it sounds like a dedicated fund.  He             
pointed out that there are constitutional problems with a dedicated            
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS noted that provision would be deleted, if               
the amendment is adopted.                                                      
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked whether there is anybody to answer                        
Representative Bunde's question in regards to the dedicated fund.              
Number 1844                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER stated the provision doesn't have a                      
constitutional problem.  It reads, "The fund consists of                       
appropriations made by the legislature to the fund."  It is a fund             
like any other fund that might receive program receipts from the               
licensing fee.                                                                 
Number 1865                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE agreed with Representative Porter's take on               
the provision.  However, if it is indented to be a dedicated fund,             
it needs to be looked at more closely.  If the provision is to stay            
in the bill, there would be another group advocating for money to              
fill a fund.                                                                   
Number 1891                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG stated the bill looks similar to the            
structure of the professional boards and commissions with the                  
exception of such things as the surety fund for the Real Estate                
Commission - impounded money returned to consumers in the event of             
a misdeed.  He doesn't recall seeing any kind of fund for boards or            
commissions, however.  It just goes to the general fund.                       
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Representative Rokeberg whether there is money            
coming back from the general fund for the other boards and                     
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied there are actual program receipts,             
but this goes through the general fund.  There aren't any                      
stipulated funds.                                                              
CHAIRMAN GREEN noted most are a two-way street.  In other words,               
they aren't just funding.                                                      
Number 1957                                                                    
MR. McGOWAN asked whether the amendment would delete the specific              
language of "fire fighters and fire instructors" and include the               
broad term of "fire service professionals" throughout the bill.                
CHAIRMAN GREEN replied that is his understanding.                              
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS replied that is correct.                                
MR. McGOWAN stated he would very much support that.  There are many            
different titles in fire fighting including volunteers.                        
Number 2017                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated there are a number of references to                
"fire fighter or fire instructor" throughout the bill.  It is                  
probably up to the bill drafter, to be consistent throughout the               
bill.  There might be some problems if it mentions fire service                
professionals in the title, but only speaks to fire fighters and               
fire instructors throughout the bill.                                          
MR. McGOWAN stated another appropriate word is "fire service                   
personnel."  Either fire service personnel or fire service                     
professional throughout the entire bill would be more consistent.              
Number 2060                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER stated whatever term is it needs to be                   
defined in detail.  Janitors, for example, don't need the same                 
training, but they are fire service personnel.                                 
Number 2090                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE wondered whether the more appropriate term is             
"fire service personnel" rather than "fire service professional."              
A professional is also a volunteer.                                            
Number 2110                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER stated that according to his take on the                 
bill,  volunteers would be exempt from the required certification.             
Number 2120                                                                    
DAVID SQUIRES testified via teleconference in Seward.  He said he              
supports the current version of the bill.  He understands what                 
Rural Deltana Fire Department is saying, but there needs to be a               
state standard for the medical personnel.  He can see where meeting            
a standard puts a big bind on the volunteer staff.  Therefore, the             
standards should be community driven.  As far as exchanging the                
language to "fire service personnel," he believes the volunteers               
should be included with the paid personnel.  For years there has               
been a dual standard, and the Alaska Fire Fighters Association has             
tried to eliminate the difference between the two.  "What's good               
for one, is good for them all," he declared.                                   
Number 2200                                                                    
JOHN WILLIAMS, Mayor, City of Kenai, testified via teleconference              
in Kenai.  The first requirement is to establish the Alaska Fire               
Fighters Standards Council to give way to the creation of                      
standards.  The council is required in the bill to consult and                 
cooperate with municipalities, agencies of the state, other                    
governmental agencies, universities, colleges, and other                       
institutions concerning the development of firefighter and fire                
instructor training schools and programs of the Department of                  
Public Safety.  He thinks, if everyone keeps his eye on the intent             
of the bill to establish the council by the effective date of July             
1, 1999, the council could in the meantime work towards the                    
creation of grandfather rights and grace periods.                              
Number 2270                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated he is not too sure what the Alaska              
Fire Chiefs Association is trying to accomplish.  He asked Mr.                 
Williams to tell him why a bureaucracy is needed to be established.            
MR. WILLIAMS replied to his complete surprise the only public                  
safety people in the state of Alaska that are not standardized are             
the fire departments.  Every other public safety group within the              
state has standards.                                                           
Number 2344                                                                    
JASON ELSON testified via teleconference in Kenai.  He informed the            
committee he is a member of the Alaska Fire Chiefs Association.  He            
supports the committee substitute and the amendment.  The language             
is very similar to the Alaska Police Standards Council in statute.             
In regards to the fund, it is neither a special nor dedicated fund.            
In regards to the deleted language starting on page 3, he wondered             
whether it is the bread-and-butter of the police council.  He is               
not sure whether the sections should be deleted.  In regards to the            
effective date, he noted it is the effective date for the council              
and not the date for the standards to be adopted.                              
Number 2415                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Mr. Elson whether the bill is a                    
certification process for paid personnel and not volunteers.                   
MR. ELSON replied, "No, sir."  The bill is to establish a council              
to help develop standards for fire service personnel across the                
state, including paid personnel, volunteers, industrial fire                   
brigade personnel, and airport crash fire and rescue personnel, for            
example.  The Alaska Fire Chiefs Association is not asking for all             
personnel to meet the same standards, but is asking for communities            
to buy into a level that they feel is needed to protect their                  
Number 2443                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Mr. Elson whether the communities would buy               
into a procedure common to all with some nuances, or some sort of              
training specific to their locations.                                          
MR. ELSON responded, "I think either one or both."                             
TAPE 98-58, SIDE B                                                             
Number 0000                                                                    
SCOTT WALDEN testified via teleconference from Kenai.  He stated he            
is in support of the bill.                                                     
Number 0014                                                                    
DAVE BURNETT testified via teleconference from Kenai.  The idea                
behind the bill is to provide organization and continuity within               
the fire services statewide, including volunteers and paid                     
personnel.  The council would cooperate with the municipalities to             
provide the necessary training for the different areas.  He                    
supports the bill.                                                             
Number 0036                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Mr. Burnett whether he agrees that the bill               
wouldn't necessarily mean the same training throughout the state,              
but that there would be some continuity with some nuances depending            
on the area.                                                                   
MR. BURNETT replied, "Yes."                                                    
Number 0046                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Elson whether the bill would                 
cover the long list of emergency service personnel that he cited               
earlier.  He wants to make sure that the intent of the bill is to              
cover what he would categorize as personnel other than                         
MR. ELSON replied the personnel that he listed are firefighters,               
not necessarily professional firefighters or volunteers.  They are             
firefighters in the private sector such as, industrial fire brigade            
and airport crash fire and rescue personnel.  Yes, standards for               
them would be developed and adopted and the council would oversee              
Number 0085                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated the way the bill is drafted falls               
short of including persons performing fire suppression services.               
He read the following language:                                                
     "'fire fighter' means a person who performs fire                          
     prevention of fire suppression services as an employee or                 
     volunteer with a fire department registered with the                      
     state fire marshal."                                                      
MR. ELSON stated the Alaska Police Standards Council addresses                 
those members involved in the Department of Fish and Game and                  
correctional officers, for example.                                            
Number 0130                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER explained there are two levels of                        
certification for police officers - below a community of 1,000 and             
above a community of 1,000.  The council struggled for four years              
to distinguish between standards for the two levels.  It then                  
addressed the Village Public Safety Officers (VPSOs) and                       
correctional officers.  The creation of an Alaska Fire Fighters                
Standards Council is asking for a monumental task.  He believes                
that the standards should be brought back to the legislature for               
confirmation.  Some legislators will probably be long gone before              
they comes back, however.                                                      
Number 0180                                                                    
MR. McGOWAN stated the majority of the work has already been done.             
There are many national standards that already exist.  "We're not              
looking at reinventing the wheel," he declared.  Although there is             
concern of setting standards too high for the rural and volunteer              
departments to meet, there are lower standards even within the                 
NFPA, such as fire brigade standards.  In addition, many standards             
are already mandated by the Occupational Safety and Health                     
Administration (OSHA).  The departments that aren't meeting those              
standards voluntarily are putting their necks on the chopping block            
in the event of a lawsuit.                                                     
Number 0230                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER stated they would be even more so by Alaska's            
Number 0247                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked whether the individuals who are presently                 
engaged in fire fighting would be given a grace period to qualify.             
Number 0274                                                                    
MR. ELSON replied it is the intent of the Alaska Fire Chiefs                   
Association to allow for a grace period and grandfather clause.                
The members who currently meet the standards would be                          
grandfathered, and there would be a grace period to meet any new               
standard.  It is not intended to make everyone come on line                    
Number 0307                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Mr. Elson whether there is any                     
opposition from the departments.                                               
MR. ELSON replied the Alaska Fire Chiefs Association has taken                 
great efforts to try to network with many of the departments.  It              
has held meetings and teleconferences regarding the issue.  It has             
informed its constituents in the Alaska Fire Fighters Association.             
It has worked with the state fire marshall's office, the entire                
Department of Public Safety, and the commissioner.  At this time,              
the general consent is that legislation is needed to develop a fire            
service standards council.                                                     
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Mr. Elson whether there was any consideration             
given to volunteer firefighters who come from other states to help             
with a fire situation such as Millers Reach.                                   
MR. ELSON replied generally they already meet certification                    
standards in other states.  If they were to take up residency in               
the state, there have been past cases where individuals have                   
challenged or tested to meet standards.  There is no opposition to             
MR. McGOWAN stated the issue of standards is to recognize some type            
of reciprocity, if Alaska recognizes the national standards.                   
Number 0435                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN stated he is concerned about states that don't have             
standards and volunteers who are pressed into service.                         
MR. McGOWAN stated a good Samaritan wouldn't be required to follow             
these standards, but a person in an organized fire department would            
Number 0469                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE first asked, if there is support for the                  
original bill, why is there an amendment.  Secondly, he sees                   
nothing in the bill that addresses a phase-in.  Thirdly, he sees               
language that needs to be cleaned up for consistency before he can             
vote on this bill.                                                             
Number 0485                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG agreed with Representative Bunde.  He is               
concerned that there hasn't been any real discussion on the                    
forestry aspect of the bill and how it fits into the scheme.  He               
noticed that there is a letter in the packet from Soldonta, Chief              
Len A. Malmquist, who mentions that the Alaska Fire Chiefs                     
Association proposes a $1 per capita and program receipt concept as            
a stable funding source for the council.  He is afraid it will be              
hard to sell the bill because of its fiscal note.  The other                   
professional boards and commissions are mandated to be self-                   
sustaining through program receipts.  He understands that this is              
a different thing and more analogous to the Alaska Police Standards            
Council.  However, the lesson is how it fits into the public's need            
for the development of statewide standards and how it is handled               
with the public's treasury.  It seems the way is to establish                  
standards without the bureaucracy.                                             
Number 0571                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN concurred with Representative Rokeberg.  The sponsor            
has indicated that there is hope for a zero fiscal note, but the               
testimony has indicated the contrary.  In light of the concerns, he            
would prefer that the sponsor take another look at the bill and                
incorporate some of the things that have been discussed today.                 
Number 0605                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated he would go ahead and make changes to            
the bill in order to satisfy the committee members, then bring it              
HJR 60 - COMMUNITY DIVIDEND FUND                                               
Number 0616                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN announced the committee would address HJR 60,                   
"Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska               
relating to the community dividend fund, the permanent fund, and               
the budget reserve fund," sponsored by Representative Davis.                   
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS came before the committee to explain his             
resolution.  One of the reasons he introduced the legislation is               
because of budget constraints.  He stated as a member of the House             
Finance Committee, he has become aware of the complexities involved            
with our budget cutting process and the elimination of programs.               
Representative Davis said, "We need to look at how we ... operate              
state government, what we provide for the citizens of our state                
compared to how other states operate and what they provide.  Of                
course we have a uniqueness in Alaska that is different than other             
states.  Our manufacturing opportunities are not as great and there            
is a large tax base associated with manufacturing operations.                  
Industry is a similar situation.  Our population base is not large             
enough to where property taxes, sales taxes and things like that               
don't generate as much dollars as they do in other states.  Our law            
enforcement enforcing laws and local ordinances and regulations is             
weak at best.  With myself, living on the Kenai River in a                     
community that the Kenai River runs through, we consistently hear              
of fishing violations that people are getting absolutely fed up                
with, but there is no enforcement.  There is no dollars for                    
enforcement.  There is no additional dollars, no increases in those            
dollars for enforcement of those type of activities.  And of course            
the municipal funding needs, most of what I just talked about, in              
most places provide an economic base for most municipalities to                
provide for the services of the citizens of each community.  In                
Alaska, we provide lots of those dollars.  There is lists of what              
we provide and I think ... probably in every page of the ... state             
budget we can see things that the state provides to local                      
municipalities that, under normal circumstances in most places,                
local municipalities provide those funds, and those services, and              
the dollars to provide those services.  So we have a unique                    
situation."  Representative Davis indicated if there was a larger              
tax base and opportunity for industry in communities, the                      
municipalities would be able to provide for themselves.  He                    
continued to inform the committee members of several programs that             
the state currently funds.  Representative Davis informed the                  
committee he introduced the resolution to provide an endowment for             
municipalities.  He stated that he proposes that some seed money,              
$750 million, from the constitutional budget reserve fund, be used.            
He stated he has also proposed 2 percent of the permanent fund                 
earnings be used to supplement $750 million on an annual basis.  He            
informed the committee that his understanding of the intent of the             
permanent fund was to provide revenues to the state when our oil               
wealth is diminished to the degree that we cannot adequately                   
provide government services to the people of the state.  He                    
indicated this would provide dollars for the future.  The initial              
set up of the fund would come close to what the state is currently             
providing in municipal assistance and revenue sharing.                         
Municipalities are concerned as to what their annual appropriations            
will be.  If the resolution is passed by the legislature, the                  
question would then go the voters as it would be a dedicated fund              
and would require a constitutional change.                                     
Number 1146                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN stated there are some estimates for 20 years from               
now that the amount of money that is generated by the permanent                
fund may be too low to take care of inflation-proofing and                     
permanent fund dividends (PFD).  He said, "And that if we put this,            
as it says 'not withstanding' that would set that, I presume, above            
the other two categories.  Has there been any thought to that                  
possibility other than just some concerns?  I haven't heard or seen            
any projections to that effect, but I've certainly heard that                  
concern expressed."                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES explained that the intent is put the 2                   
percent draw above those.  The 2 percent draw is for 20 years also.            
Depending on how the numbers come out on when there may be a draw              
down to not even be able cover inflation proofing, the 20 years                
could be adjusted.  He noted that even the 2 percent could be                  
withdrawn.  The legislation is flexible and is drafted to generate             
discussion on all the issues.                                                  
Number 1227                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE referred to legislature often being criticized            
for the volume of per capita amount of state spending when the                 
local governments don't pick up a good portion of the funding in               
other areas.  Representative Bunde referred to the 2 percent figure            
and asked if that wouldn't be better spent statewide by the                    
legislature rather than in the local arenas.  Representative Bunde             
referred to the municipalities having a dividend coming in and                 
asked if wouldn't encourage residents of those municipalities to               
demand services at a higher level because they're not going to have            
to pay for them as money would come in off the dividend.  He asked             
how the dividend would deal with specific services that aren't                 
currently state services.  He referenced that in Anchorage there               
are hybrid roads that belong to the state and are maintained by the            
city and, in other words, nobody is responsible for them.                      
Number 1336                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS referred to the maintenance of highways and               
roads and explained that the state has been trying to negotiate                
with municipalities to take over some of that maintenance.  He                 
informed the committee that in Soldotna the there is a five mile               
long road and there are six or eight roads off of that road.  The              
state maintains the long road and the municipality maintains some              
of side roads.  The state doesn't maintain anything across the                 
highway.  If the legislation passes, it would offer opportunity to             
simplify the process.                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER offered his congratulations for bringing the             
issue up as it is one that needs discussion.  He said                          
Representative Davies indicated that the numbers would be pretty               
close to what the municipal revenue sharing and municipal                      
assistance budget currently is.                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said he has information that shows the current            
revenue sharing dollars for FY 98 is $22 million.  He indicated                
that currently there is about $50 million being paid out by the                
state into those two accounts.  A proposed income for the first                
year would be about $76 million.                                               
Number 1518                                                                    
DEB DAVIDSON, Legislative Administrative Assistant to                          
Representative Gary Davis, Alaska State Legislature, came before               
the committee.  She said, "If we're looking at the pay out to the              
community dividend fund the interest from the fund, as estimated by            
the -- the permanent fund did the actual projections, the income               
pay out in the first year from the interest earned on what was put             
into the municipal dividend fund would be right around $56 million             
depending on whether or not you decided to inflation proof or how              
you wanted to inflation-proof and also depending on the type of                
investments that were made."                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS noted that you would want to try and increase             
the principal as much as possible, at least initially, and not have            
100 percent pay out.  He stated that you may look at an 80 percent             
or 90 percent pay out.  You would want to keep some additional                 
dollars to increase the principal over time.                                   
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he would assume that there wouldn't be              
an adverse impact on projected dividends and inflation-proofing.               
MS. DAVIDSON said there may be a table in the committee file that              
lists some projections on the effect of the PFD.  By taking the 2              
percent off of the income, the amounts needed for inflation-                   
proofing and the PFD would not change as the 2 percent would not be            
subtracted out of the calculations.  The change would be in the                
balance of the earnings reserve account over the years.                        
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said, "The initial proposed hits to the                   
dividend would be zero.  At 20 years, it would be about $20.  So               
it's an average of $10.  If you take all the money over 20 years,              
it would be an average of $10, a year, hit on the dividend."                   
Number 1826                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Representative Davis if he is                      
anticipating the same general distribution criteria that currently             
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS explained that the legislation speaks to                  
organized municipalities that are organized under Title 29.  He                
said he believes that there are currently some municipal assistance            
dollars being distributed to unorganized municipalities.  The                  
resolution was drafted to generate discussion on whether the state             
should distribute to areas not organized under Title 29.                       
Number 1872                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said former Governor Hickel has spoke about            
something similar.  Governor Hickel had taken the approach that the            
legislature would look at each individual allocation of the PFD and            
take a percentage or allocate a percentage of that to the political            
subdivision of the resident of which that permanent fund was                   
directed to.  He asked Representative Davis if he as looked at                 
other methodologies to try and reach the same goal.                            
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said he got the idea from Governor Hickel.  He            
stated that he believes Governor Hickel's proposal is mirrored in              
a resolution submitted by Representative Moses.  His understanding             
is that it caps the PFD.  It still uses the dividend formula, and              
anything above the cap would be distributed into this account.  He             
stated it also utilizes 100 percent of the balance of the earnings             
reserve and puts that into the account.   He stated he isn't sure              
how long the balance of the earnings reserve fund and the cap on               
the dividends would be utilized.  Representative Davis stated he               
introduced his resolution because he didn't feel that previous                 
proposals he discussed wouldn't be acceptable at this time by the              
voters.  He noted his 2 percent figure is not a vital part of his              
resolution and he used it to generate public discussion.                       
Number 2163                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said one of the things that vexes him is the              
same people who are critical of the legislature not reducing state             
spending enough are also critical of the legislature reducing                  
municipal revenue sharing.  He said, "And I would find one problem             
with this idea is that they're getting theirs so they would still              
be then very critical of state spending in other areas because this            
money is going to organize cities and boroughs.  As a resident of              
an organized city, I could see some advantage to that, however, I              
could also anticipate some criticism from people who live in                   
unorganized areas.  And I'm wonder if you think this might be, (1)             
and incentive to organize and start paying for some of the services            
they feel they need; and (2) how do we respond to the notion that              
this is using the people's money, the permanent fund, for ... part             
of Alaska rather than if the money went to the legislature, it                 
would be available for appropriation to all of us?"                            
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said it is true that it uses the people's                 
money, but it's also going to the people.  He stated he has had                
reservations, since drafting the resolution, about not including               
the unorganized areas.  For simplicity, it should be distributed               
under the current formula that revenue sharing is distributed,                 
which would include all organized and unorganized areas of the                 
state.  The money is the people's money and it would go to the                 
people which he believes is an intent of the permanent fund.                   
Representative Davis said, "We choose to distribute the people's               
money in dividends and we've chosen to inflation proof and we've               
chosen to hold on to the balance and keep it into an account and               
redistribute it into the principal.  Those are what the legislature            
has chosen to do to meet what apparently the legislature feels is              
the intent of the permanent fund.  But I also think its generating             
discussion is the intent, also, to share the wealth with                       
municipalities, which in turn - I mean under this proposal and                 
there is no strings attached to these dollars like there are to                
other dollars that the state distributes to municipalities.  If                
Anchorage wanted to form their own dividend and distribute those               
dollars to the people that they receive, that would be their                   
prerogative.  There is no strings attached to these.  So it is                 
going to the people.  The municipalities, by ordinance, would be               
spending these dollars.  If the people realize there is a chunk of             
money coming to the municipality from this fund, the people could              
go to their assembly...."                                                      
TAPE 98-59, SIDE A                                                             
Number 0001                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said although there has been a lot of ideas              
on what should be the first public purpose use instead of                      
individual dividends for the earnings of the permanent fund, his               
problem with most of them was they highlighted one particular area             
of need in the state and didn't address the other needs.  It was               
extremely hard to justify one salient need over one or two other               
salient needs that wouldn't be receiving those funds.                          
Representative Porter said his opinion is the resolution is as                 
close as he has seen to an appropriate first crack as it does                  
distribute these earnings where they belong - to the people.                   
Number 0201                                                                    
JOHN WILLIAMS, Mayor, City of Kenai, testified via teleconference              
from Kenai in support of HJR 60.  He stated he is pleased with                 
Representative Davis' decision to introduce the legislation.  The              
concept of the resolution is something that he has been discussing             
around the state with many groups and people.  He elaborated on                
discussion he had with former Governor Hickel who suggested keeping            
it simple.  Mr. Williams pointed out the Alaska Municipal League               
(AML) has looked at the concept of the legislation as a great way              
to solve differences between the legislature and communities with              
regard to continuing efforts in municipal assistance and revenue               
funds.  The Alaska Mayors Association has taken up the call of an              
educational process that hopefully will lead to an amendment to the            
constitution.  Mr. Williams said the numbers are correct with                  
regard to the 2 percent earnings.  He referred to the unorganized              
areas and said they look to their borough assembly, which is the               
Alaska State Legislature.  He stated, "We have handled that                    
situation through AML by having a $40,000 hold harmless agreement              
with those groups and villagers who could apply and I'm sure that              
could be built into the distribution of funds from the community               
dividend program.  The Alaska Humanities Forum has been traveling              
around the state for several months now holding public hearings.               
I've attended two of them."  Mr. Williams said HJR 60 is a definite            
move in a positive direction.  He urged the committee to continue              
the education process and the development of the community dividend            
Number 0510                                                                    
GEORGE CARNAHAN testified via teleconference from Kenai against HJR
60.  He stated, "I'm opposed to this House Joint Resolution 60                 
because you've imposed a tobacco tax - all different kinds of taxes            
and give the oil companies money.  They won't charge them full                 
appraisals on their property and they turn around and want to take             
it out on us second class citizens pockets.  And I think the                   
Governor has got to get real and think -- maybe they got to do what            
China done here last week, they cut half their government in half."            
Number 0572                                                                    
KEVIN RITCHIE, Executive Director, Alaska Municipal League,                    
testified in support of HJR 60.  He thanked Representative Davis               
for introducing the resolution.  Mr. Ritchie stated that he                    
believes Representative Davis outlined very nicely the old reality             
of the state budget and revenues and the new reality of the state              
budget and revenues.  Mr. Ritchie stated one reality is that the               
interest earnings from the Alaska's savings account, including the             
permanent fund, have exceeded any other source of revenue for the              
state of Alaska.  It is a vast economic resource that truly does               
need to be discussed as to that is used.  Mr. Ritchie said the                 
reality the AML sees on a municipal level is that people are not               
asking for less maintenance on roads, schools or boat harbors.                 
They're asking for things to be done probably at a higher rate than            
they're being done today.  The question is, "Who is going to pay               
for that?"  He asked if we are going to use the current resources              
that are available or is the property tax going to be the key way              
of funding municipal services.  He continued to discuss schools and            
how they are funded with the mill rate.  Mr. Ritchie referred to               
the taxes that people pay on their PFD and pointed out the money               
sent to the federal government could be sent to communities instead            
by cutting the local taxpayer out of the route.  There is a                    
tremendous amount of potential.  He referred to it being a real                
valid question as to how responsibilities are allocated between                
state and local government and pointed out that a number of local              
governments, that are water-based municipalities, are willing to               
take over ownership of their state boat harbor after good repairs              
are done by the state.  He noted the same thing for roads being                
transferred to the municipalities.  Mr. Ritchie pointed out that               
the constitution puts the legislature clearly in charge of what the            
municipalities do and how they do it.  The legislature will always             
be in charge one way or the other.  He pointed out the AML and the             
Alaska Conference of Mayors are not specifically endorsing one                 
process of doing this as the only way.  They are just trying to get            
the public in productive discussions of how this vast resource can             
be used.  Mr. Ritchie gave committee members a resolution that was             
adopted the previous week by the Alaska Conference of Mayors and               
the AML board of directors.  He thanked the committee for listening            
to his testimony.                                                              
CHAIRMAN GREEN indicated there were no further witnesses to testify            
and asked what the wish was of the committee.                                  
Number 0962                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER pointed out the total pay out in PFDs is $500            
million a year.  If you figure an average of 20 percent in taxes,              
$100 million per year is being sent to the federal government.                 
Representative Porter moved and asked unanimous consent to move HJR
60 out of committee with individual recommendations.  There being              
no objection, HJR 60 moved out of the House Judiciary Standing                 
HB 474 - CERTIFY MUNICIPAL CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS                               
Number 1045                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN announced the final item of business would be HB
474, "An Act relating to correctional officers."  He called on                 
Laddie Shaw to testify, noting that they are trying to make anyone             
in charge of incarcerating state prisoners meet a standard that all            
other incarcerating officers meet.                                             
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "Move it."                                          
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG inquired whether there is a fiscal note.               
CHAIRMAN GREEN pointed out that there is a zero fiscal note.                   
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked where the money is coming from to do             
Number 1066                                                                    
LADDIE SHAW, Executive Director, Alaska Police Standards Council,              
noted that with him was Barbara Murray, Community Jails                        
Coordinator, Division of Administrative Services, Department of                
Corrections.  He told members that if this is approved, the                    
training will come from the existing surcharge, which exists for               
them as a regulatory authority for training for law enforcement and            
Number 1097                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked whether there were further questions or any               
objections to moving the bill.  Hearing no objection, he announced             
that HB 474 was moved from the House Judiciary Standing Committee.             
Number 1102                                                                    
CHAIRMAN GREEN adjourned the House Judiciary Standing Committee                
meeting at 3:05 p.m.                                                           

Document Name Date/Time Subjects