Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/21/1995 03:35 PM Senate STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
March 21, 1995
3:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Bert Sharp, Chairman
Senator Randy Phillips, Vice-Chairman
Senator Loren Leman
Senator Jim Duncan
Senator Dave Donley
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 110
"An Act relating to administrative adjudication under the
Administrative Procedure Act."
SENATE BILL NO. 71
"An Act relating to deep freeze classics; and providing for an
effective date."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 4(STA)(title am)
"An Act allowing, for the purposes of permanent fund dividend
eligibility, an individual to accompany, as the spouse or minor or
disabled dependent, another eligible resident who is absent for
vocational, professional, or other specific education for which a
comparable program is not reasonably available in the state, for
secondary or postsecondary education, for military service, for
medical treatment, for service in the Congress or in the Peace
Corps, or for other reasons that the commissioner of revenue may
establish by regulation; requiring, for the purposes of permanent
fund dividend eligibility, an individual who is not physically
present in the state to maintain and demonstrate at all times an
intent to return to the state to remain permanently; relating to
the eligibility for 1992, 1993, and 1994 permanent fund dividends
of certain spouses and dependents of eligible applicants; relating
to appeal periods for certain 1994 permanent fund dividends; and
providing for an effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 110 - No previous senate committee action.
SB 71 - No previous senate committee action.
HB 4 - No previous senate committee action.
WITNESS REGISTER
Teresa Williams, Assistant Attorney General
Commercial Section, Civil Division, Department of Law
1031 W. 4th Ave., Ste. 200, Anchorage, AK 99501-1994¶269-5100
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of SB 110
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-3732
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of SB 71
Cleeta Barger, Delta Chamber of Commerce
P.O. Box 888, Delta Junction, AK 99737¶895-4142
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SB 71
Carol Stock
P.O. Box 1170, Delta Junction, AK 99737¶895-4160
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SB 71
Dennis Poshard, Director
Charitable Gaming Div., Dept. of Revenue
P.O. Box 110440, Juneau, AK 99811-0440¶465-2229
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SB 71
Rod Mourant, Aide to Representative Pete Kott
State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-3777
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 4
Representative Pete Kott
State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-3777
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 4
Wendy Hughes, Dividend Appeals Unit
Permanent Fund Dividend Div., Dept. of Revenue
P.O. Box 110460, Juneau, AK 99811-0460¶465-2038
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 4
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-12, SIDE A
Number 001
SSTA - 3/21/95
SB 110 ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUDICATIONS
CHAIRMAN SHARP calls the Senate State Affairs Committee to order at
3:35 p.m. and brings up SB 110 as the first order of business
before the committee. SB 110 was sponsored by the Rules Committee
by request of the Governor. The chairman calls the first witness.
TERESA WILLIAMS, Assistant Attorney General, Commercial Section,
Civil Division, Department of Law, testifying from Anchorage,
states she is testifying on behalf of the administration. The
administration thinks administrative litigation should be faster
and less costly for parties and the state. Ms. Williams reads
information contained in the Governor's Transmittal Letter for SB
110 to the committee.
Number 071
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks Ms. Williams if, under Section 5 of SB
110, it can't just state "reimbursement of expenses accordant with
standard established." Why is the word "subsistence" in there?
MS. WILLIAMS thinks the bill could say "food and lodging."
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS thinks that would be better wording than
"subsistence."
MS. WILLIAMS thinks the word "subsistence" was taken from the court
rule.
CHAIRMAN SHARP asks Ms. Williams to continue with her testimony.
MS. WILLIAMS continues her review of the Governor's Transmittal
Letter for SB 110.
Number 115
SENATOR DONLEY asks Ms. Williams to repeat the reference she made
to a preponderance of the evidence being the appropriate standard,
even when there is a potential for incarceration.
MS. WILLIAMS lists several examples: a probation revocation
proceeding, where a preponderance of the evidence is the standard
of proof that is used, even though the person will be going to jail
if they lose in the probation revocation proceeding; and for a
juvenile being waived into adult court, the standard is only a
preponderance of the evidence, and if they lose, they go into adult
court and face incarceration.
SENATOR DONLEY asks Ms. Williams to review and explain that section
of SB 110 again.
MS. WILLIAMS responds there is no standard of proof now set forth
in state law. There is a court decision that states the standard
is a preponderance of the evidence, unless otherwise stated. That
is what we are following in SB 110.
Number 138
SENATOR DONLEY asks if that only applies to administrative
adjudications.
MS. WILLIAMS replies that is correct.
SENATOR DONLEY asks if this would mostly apply to the area of
appeals for revocation of driver's licenses.
MS. WILLIAMS responds no, that is probably a really minor aspect of
administrative adjudications.
Number 149
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks Ms. Williams if there are any
organizations or groups which support SB 110.
MS. WILLIAMS is not aware of any groups supporting or opposing SB
110.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks Ms. Williams if SB 110 is mostly
supported internally by the administration.
MS. WILLIAMS states that is correct.
Number 165
SENATOR DONLEY comments SB 110 seems to contain reasonable
suggestions. But he is also interested in the whole process, and
he would like some time to research the issue. He has always been
concerned with the process by which notice is given for the
adoption of regulations. There is no requirement that the public
be shown the final version of proposed regulations. He would like
to see more detailed notice of proposals. He would like to get
information for the committee by the next meeting, if the committee
is interested.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS states he would definitely be interested in
Senator Donley's proposal.
Number 199
MS. WILLIAMS responds the title of SB 110 refers to administrative
adjudication, which is a different section than the one dealing
with regulations. There are bills pending which deal strictly with
regulations. She asks that the committee keep administrative
adjudication separate from regulations.
Number 206
CHAIRMAN SHARP appreciates what Ms. Williams just said, but to give
proper notice before things become effective - to get the job done,
sometimes you have to wrap the sweet stuff around the apple. He
asks Senator Donley if he can have information for the committee by
the next committee meeting.
SENATOR DONLEY replies he will try to do that.
Number 219
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS states the committee will probably have
committee substitute for SB 110, and at some point in time he would
like, on page 3, line 17, to have the word "subsistence" replaced
with "reimbursement of food and lodging expenses, in accordance
with the standards established by the Department of Administration
under AS 39.20.160."
CHAIRMAN SHARP understands from Ms. Williams testimony that there
would not be objection to that change from the administration. The
chairman asks for Ms. Williams' fax number so that they can work
with her on a committee substitute and announces the committee will
hold SB 110 and hear it again at the next committee meeting.
SSTA - 3/21/95
SB 71 DEEP FREEZE CLASSIC
SENATOR SHARP brings up SB 71 as the next order of business before
the Senate State Affairs Committee and calls the first witness.
SENATOR GEORGIANNA LINCOLN, prime sponsor of SB 71, reads the
sponsor statement for SB 71 to the committee.
Number 291
CLEETA BARGER, Delta Chamber of Commerce, informs the committee
that the idea for a deep-freeze classic was the result of a study
done by the chamber, which was looking for ways to improve the
economy in the Delta area.
Number 308
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks if Delta has held a deep-freeze classic
before.
MS. BARGER responds no, the brochure Senator Phillips is looking at
is pre-planning for the classic. At the time, the chamber did not
know they needed legislative approval to use the word "classic."
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS suggests Delta hold a rodeo.
Number 332
CAROL STOCK, testifying from Delta, states SB 71 would help
diversify the economy by benefiting the tourism industry.
SENATOR LINCOLN points out that in the back-up information for SB
71, it is estimated that the chamber would get some revenue from
the classic and use that revenue to enhance and encourage tourism.
Number 358
SENATOR DONLEY asks if there is anything in the legislation
stipulating how the money is to be used, or if it would be up to
the discretion of the Delta Chamber of Commerce.
MS. BARGER replies, "Festival of Lights, and we have cooperated
with the federal and state governments, and we are in the process
of getting Sullivan Roadhouse, the oldest remaining roadhouse in
the interior, replaced from Fort Greely reservation to Delta
Junction. The chamber of commerce is taking on that
responsibility. If there are more funds available than it takes to
run our winter festival, then we will put it into Sullivan
Roadhouse."
SENATOR LINCOLN does not think the $25,000 will go very far to
promote further economic development for the community.
Number 375
CHAIRMAN SHARP asks what the state regulations are, as far as cost
and licensing requirements, and the amount that is required to be
paid to the winner.
DENNIS POSHARD, Director, Charitable Gaming Division, Department of
Revenue, stated there are no regulations requiring a minimum amount
of money be returned to the permittee, which in this case would be
the Delta Chamber of Commerce.
Number 396
SENATOR LEMAN asks how the classic will be run; he sees two
constraints: a time constraint and a temperature constraint. What
will take precedence: guessing the right temperature, or guessing
the right date?
MS. BARGER responds guessing the right temperature will take
precedence, with the date and time second.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks what happens if the temperature is the
same for eight straight hours.
MS. BARGER replies, "Then they would share the clock."
SENATOR DONLEY comments he has voted against everyone of these
bills for nine years now. But he does not think it is an
unreasonable thing for Delta to ask for; they are going to need
some help. He will not oppose moving the bill from committee.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS makes a motion to discharge SB 71 from the
Senate State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
SENATOR LEMAN objects for the purposes of commenting on the
subject. He objects to gambling, although he supports the causes
the classics support. Senator Leman states he will vote against
the bill when it reaches the floor, but he removes his objection.
Number 393
CHAIRMAN SHARP thinks the legislature might want to go through and
delete some of the games of chance from statute that are not
currently in operation. The chairman, hearing no further
objection, orders SB 71 released from committee with individual
recommendations.
SSTA - 3/21/95
HB 4 PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND ELIGIBILITY
CHAIRMAN SHARP brings up HB 4 as the next order of business before
the Senate State Affairs Committee and calls the first witness.
Number 441
ROD MOURANT, Aide to Representative Pete Kott, prime sponsor of HB
4, gives background information on HB 4. Mr. Mourant mentions the
court case which disallowed "piggybacking", and states HB 4 would
make piggybacking a statutorily allowable absence. Mr. Mourant
states allowable absences are for medical reasons, educational
reasons, military service, vocational, professional, and special
training not available in state, and for service in congress or the
peace corps. He knows one woman who is being denied a dividend
while she accompanies and cares for her husband who is undergoing
cancer treatment out of state. Mr. Mourant also knows a fourth-
generation Alaskan who has been denied a dividend while he
accompanies his wife, who is out of state attending school. He
informed the committee that HB 4 passed the house unanimously.
Number 486
SENATOR LEMAN asks Mr. Mourant if this bill is the same as
Representative Parnell's bill last year.
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT, prime sponsor of HB 4, responds HB 4 is
virtually identical. He stated the bill passed both houses last
year, but the house was unable to concur with an amendment made in
the senate, and so the bill died.
Number 492
CHAIRMAN SHARP comments he is caused heartburn by military people
who satisfy the residency requirement and become eligible for a
dividend, and then come back for one day on a military transport
plane just to satisfy the dividend requirement after they are
transferred out of state. He has a problem with people who weren't
eligible for a dividend when they went in the military continuing
eligibility after they leave the state. Chairman Sharp knows the
Soldiers & Sailors Relief Act requires that anyone in the military
cannot lose a benefit because of military service. But he is not
sure, if it is a benefit they did not have when they joined the
service, that the benefit would necessarily have to follow them
forever.
Number 510
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT states he completely agrees with the chairman's
comments; there are a number of abuses with the permanent fund
dividend program. He spent twenty-two years in the military, and
certainly insured that he stayed in the state. But there are a
number of other individuals out there who are probably cheating the
system, not to cast any negative aspersions on anyone. In
addition, there are probably a lot of other individuals who come to
the state and collect dividends while here, but do not intend to
stay indefinitely. Representative Kott informs the committee that
last year there was an attempt to establish a program within the
Department of Revenue. This program would have set up an escrow
account for people eligible for dividends who were residing out of
state, and after these people had returned to the state and
maintained residency for one year, they would have received the
money owed them. That became a little unmanageable though; there
were a couple of snags. But that is one way to address that
particular issue.
Number 535
SENATOR DONLEY asks what is new in Section 2.
MR. MOURANT responds the new structure in Section 2 is at the
request of the Permanent Fund Dividend Division. No provisions are
being changed, other than paragraph (8) under Section 2.
SENATOR DONLEY asks Mr. Mourant to confirm that paragraph (7) is in
existing statute.
MR. MOURANT replies paragraph (7) is currently in statute.
SENATOR DONLEY asks if anyone has raised the possibility of adding
a military service exception regarding the home of record of an
individual when they entered the military.
Number 549
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT is not aware of anyone in the legislature
attempting to address that particular matter.
SENATOR DONLEY asks Representative Kott how he would feel about
that. The military personnel still in state would still be
eligible.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT thinks it is something that could be looked
into, but it might also get into the issue of equal protection.
You have out-of-state military personnel, but you also have
students and other categories, and you would have to address that
group as a whole, rather than single out one class. He thinks the
legality of that would have to be addressed.
Number 561
SENATOR DONLEY thinks there is a rational distinction between the
classes of the military and students. He thinks the state could
meet a federal test.
Number 567
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT is not sure; there is also the Soldiers and
Sailors Relief Act that has to be taken into consideration as well.
MR. MOURANT adds that service in congress is also an allowable
absence. It does not state "service to the Alaska delegation in
congress." There are individuals who have maintained their
residency in Alaska, who work for other states' delegations in
congress who are eligible for a dividend.
Number 570
SENATOR DONLEY says that those people all established residency in
Alaska first, before they began their service in congress.
CHAIRMAN SHARP thinks they probably were residents before they
became engaged in an exemption.
TAPE 95-12, SIDE B
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks Mr. Mourant if Alaska residents who
work for other states' delegations in congress are really eligible
for a dividend.
MR. MOURANT replies he assumed they were eligible, but he sees that
a representative from the Permanent Fund Dividend Division is
shaking her head "no." He apologizes: they are eligible to vote in
this state.
SENATOR DONLEY says it appears paragraph (8) affects two classes of
people: the spouse who married an eligible recipient in Alaska, and
the spouse who married the eligible recipient after the recipient
left Alaska.
MR. MOURANT responds the spouse, or "piggybacker", must be
independently eligible, on their own merits. A spouse cannot be
eligible simply because they are married to a recipient with an
allowable absence.
CHAIRMAN SHARP comments he had a constituent who was a life-long
Alaskan who was denied a dividend because she married a military
person who wasn't eligible, and they had never even left the state.
The chairman asks about the potential cost of the bill. He asks if
anyone will be eligible, or if only people who applied for
dividends and were denied will be eligible.
Number 560
WENDY HUGHES, Dividend Appeals Unit, Permanent Fund Dividend
Division, Department of Revenue, replies there were 2,690 people
who were denied a dividend. As of December 31, there 1,373 people
who had appealed. So it would be just those additional people who
had not appealed in a timely manner who would be allowed to appeal
before September 1.
CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if the bill would include piggybacking
children.
MS. HUGHES responds the bill does not include piggybacking
children, because the court ruling regarding piggybacking only
affected spouses; it did not affect piggybacking children.
CHAIRMAN SHARP asks Ms. Hughes if most people affected by this bill
are military, or if there are students involved too.
MS. HUGHES believes about 40% are probably military, and 40%-45%
are probably students.
CHAIRMAN SHARP asks Ms. Hughes if she knows how many people qualify
under the military service allowable absence.
MS. HUGHES replies she does not know offhand, but could get that
information for the committee.
CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if the department keeps track of allowable
absences applied for and paid by paragraphs (1)-(6) in HB 4.
MS. HUGHES responds the department does keep track of that.
CHAIRMAN SHARP asks that the information be provided to the
committee.
Number 528
SENATOR LEMAN asks if the department keeps track of the military
personnel who say they intend to return to Alaska when they retire,
and those who actually do return to Alaska when they retire.
MS. HUGHES replies the department does not keep track of that.
SENATOR LEMAN asks if there is any way that information could be
tracked.
MS. HUGHES thinks that would be pretty exhaustive to attempt. The
other consideration is those who discontinue filing, even though
they might keep their residency, simply because they don't meet the
two-year physical presence requirement. They might not be dropping
simply because they didn't intend to return. So the department
really doesn't have any numbers on that.
CHAIRMAN SHARP announces HB 4 will be held until Tuesday's meeting
so that the committee can review information it has requested from
the Department of Revenue.
CHAIRMAN SHARP states the next committee meeting will be Tuesday,
March 28, 1995. The committee will hear bills held over and the
bills scheduled for Thursday's meeting, which was cancelled.
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