Legislature(1995 - 1996)
04/01/1996 03:38 PM Senate RES
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SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
April 1, 1996
3:38 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Loren Leman, Chairman
Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chairman
Senator Steve Frank
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
Senator Lyman Hoffman
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Rick Halford
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 539
"An Act changing the name of the Alaska Soil and Water Conservation
Board."
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 60(RES)
Relating to Revised Statute 2477 rights-of-way.
SENATE BILL NO. 311
"An Act relating to marine safety training and education programs."
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 58(RES)
Relating to reauthorization and reform of the Endangered Species
Act.
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
HB 539 - No previous action to record.
HJR 60 - No previous action to record.
SB 311 - No previous action to record.
HJR 58 - See Resources minutes dated 3/27/96.
WITNESS REGISTER
Cheryl Sutton, Staff to House Resources Committee
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1181
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on HB 539
Jeff Hartman, Executive Director
Alaska Soil & Water Conservation Board
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 539
Walt Wilcox, Staff to Representative Jeannette James
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on CSHJR 60(RES)
Bill Perhach
Alaska Environmental Lobby
P.O. Box 22151
Juneau, AK 99802
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to CSHJR 60(RES)
Senator John Torgerson
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of SB 311
Barbara Burch
668 Anderson
Kodiak, AK 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 311
Pat Holmes
P.O. Box 2651
Kodiak, AK 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 311
James Herbert
P.O. Box 1461
Seward, AK 99664
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 311
Jerry Dzugan, Director & Training Coordinator
Alaska Marine Safety Education Association
617 Katlian, B-33
Sitka, AK 99835
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 311
Mark Johnson, Chief, Community Health & Emergency
Medical Services
Division of Public Health
Department of Health & Social Services
P.O. Box 110616
Juneau, AK 99811-0616
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 311
Mariah Offer
P.O. Box 2264
Kodiak, AK 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 311
Jane Eizman
P.O. Box 192
Kodiak, AK 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 311
Hank Pennington
P.O. Box 8183
Kodiak, AK 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 311
Dean Paddock
Bristol Bay Driftnetters' Association
P.O. Box 20312
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 311
Betty Martin, Comptroller
Treasury Division
Department of Revenue
P.O. Box 110405
Juneau, AK 99811-0405
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SB 311
Anthony Kruppe
Alaska Environmental Lobby
P.O. Box 22151
Juneau, AK 99802
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to CSHJR 58(RES)
Jay Nelson
Department of Fish & Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99811-5526
POSITION STATEMENT: Responded to questions on CSHJR 58(RES)
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 96-43, SIDE A
Number 001
HB 539 NAME CHANGE FOR SOIL AND WATER BOARD
CHAIRMAN LEMAN called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to
order at 3:38 p.m. He brought HB 539 before the committee as the
first order of business.
CHERYL SUTTON , staff to the House Resources Committee, explained HB
539 was introduced at the request of the Alaska Soil & Water
Conservation Board. The legislation changes the name of the board
to the Natural Resources Conservation & Development Board because
the present name does not reflect adequately that the board has a
resource development as well as a conservation mission. The name
change will not affect any of the statutory responsibilities of the
board.
JEFF HARTMAN , Executive Director, Alaska Soil & Water Conservation
Board, Department of Natural Resources, testifying in support of HB
539, said the intent of the name change is to provide more of a
potential for opening doors in looking at resource development in
the rural areas of the state.
There being no further testimony on HB 539, CHAIRMAN LEMAN stated
the bill would be set aside until a quorum was established.
Number 070
CSHJR 60(RES) RS 2477 HIGHWAY RIGHTS OF WAY
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought CSHJR 60(RES) before the committee as the
next order of business.
WALT WILCOX , staff to Representative Jeannette James who chairs the
House State Affairs committee, explained RS 2477 relates to a
federal law that provides for rights-of-way for construction of
highways over public lands that are not reserved for public use.
In 1976 Congress repealed the RS 2477 but reserved existing rights-
of-way created under the statute. The U.S. Department of Interior
is attempting to administratively rescind the long standing and
widely accepted interpretation of RS 2477 by adopting regulations
restrictively defining key statutory terms contrary to the intent
of Congress and virtually eliminating RS 2477 rights-of-way in the
state of Alaska. He noted legislation has been introduced in
Congress to preserve the long-standing judicial and executive
interpretations of the RS 2477 and to protect existing rights-of-
way previously granted by the federal government. HJR 60 supports
passage of the legislation being considered by Congress.
Referring to the further resolved clause in the resolution, Mr.
Wilcox said it is the sponsor's understanding that perhaps 10 years
would be a better idea than using a reasonable period for the
assertion, recognition, and determination of the existence of RS
2477 rights-of-way.
Mr. Wilcox also pointed out this only relates to public lands, not
Native claims or private lands.
Number 115
SENATOR LINCOLN noted the Tyonek Native Corporation has written a
letter relating to their concern about the RS 2477 crossing through
an old village cemetery site. CHAIRMAN LEMAN said he has read the
letter and understands the concern. He pointed out the RS 2477
says that state law will determine how this is to be implemented,
so it is really a matter of state law, not of federal law. He
added that in that particular situation, without prejudging all the
merits of it, he would guess that if it is as stated by the Tyonek
Native Corporation, the state would conclude that it would not want
to assert that right, and if there is need for an access, it would
do it a different way.
Number 190
CHAIRMAN LEMAN referred to the resolve clause on page 3, lines 8 &
9, which is asking for a reasonable period of time and a process
for making these assertions. He suggested amending it to insert 10
years to be consistent with testimony that has already been offered
before Congress. MR. WILCOX voiced Representative James'
endorsement of the amendment.
SENATOR FRANK moved that on page 3, line 9, delete the word
"reasonable" and insert "10-year" in its place. Hearing no
objection, the Chairman stated the amendment was adopted and would
be incorporated into a Resources SCS.
BILL PERHACH , representing the Alaska Environmental Lobby, read
into the record their position paper in opposition to CSHJR
60(RES).
Number 380
SENATOR PEARCE moved SCS CSHJR 60(RES) and the zero fiscal note be
passed out of committee with individual recommendations. Hearing
no objection, it was so ordered.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought HB 539 (NAME CHANGE FOR SOIL AND WATER
BOARD) back before the committee. Hearing no additional testimony,
he asked for the pleasure of the committee.
SENATOR PEARCE moved HB 539 and the accompanying fiscal note be
passed out of committee with individual recommendations. Hearing
no objection, it was so ordered.
SB 311 MARINE SAFETY EDUCATION PROGRAMS
CHAIRMAN LEMAN introduced SB 311 as the next order of business.
SENATOR JOHN TORGERSON , prime sponsor of SB 311, said he introduced
the legislation at the request of commercial fishermen in his
district. Basically, the funding for the program has come from the
federal government, but with recent budget cuts, it is facing
elimination under the current funding level. He noted the same
legislation was introduced in the House.
Senator Torgerson explained SB 311 allows for the appropriation of
50 percent of the income earned by the state on the balance of the
fishermen's fund for grants to the Alaska Marine Safety Education
Association (AMSEA) for this training program.
Senator Torgerson said he recognizes that the entire budget of the
training program is somewhat less than 50 percent of what the fund
earns, so the 50 percent would overfund them approximately $45,000,
and he suggested the committee may want to amend the language to
allow appropriating up to 50 percent.
Senator Togerson stated he supports the fund and would like to see
it continue, and this funding source is one way to ensure that it
happens.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN agreed that changing the language to up to 50
percent was appropriate in order to protect the integrity of the
fishermen's fund.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved the following amendment to SB 311:
Amendment No. 1.
Page l, line 8: After the word "appropriate" insert "up to"
Hearing no objection, the Chairman stated the amendment was adopted
and would be incorporated into a Resources CS.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN opened the public hearing on SB 311.
Number 440
BARBARA BURCH , representing the Kodiak Fishermen's Wives and
testifying in Kodiak, voiced strong support for SB 311 and the
AMSEA program.
PAT HOLMES , testifying in Kodiak, stated investing 50 percent of
the interest from this fund is a really good investment. He is a
biologist for the Department of Fish & Game, and in addition to his
fishery management duties, he is also regional safety officer and
chair of the department's safety training committee. He said they
extensively use the AMSEA materials in their training program, not
only for the crews of the vessels that conduct research and
enforcement, but also for their seasonal employees who man the
field camps. The department's training program is also offered to
personnel from the Department of Environmental Conservation and
personnel from the Division of Parks. A spin-off program called
"Cold Water Kids" is used extensively in many schools in Southeast
Alaska and the Gulf of Alaska. He urged the committee's support
for SB 311, because without state funding, the program will cease
to exist.
JAMES HERBERT , testifying in Seward, said he is one of Senator
Torgerson's constituents who encouraged him to introduce SB 311
because he supports training for commercial fishermen and mariners
in the state. He has been a fisherman in Alaska for over 25 years,
and he believes that in recent years, attitude wise, things have
changed and a lot of that has to do with the work of the network of
volunteers that AMSEA has created throughout the state. He
believes the legislation targets a viable source of money,
something that reasonably could be used to help prevent further
injuries through educating people.
JERRY DZUGAN , the director and training coordinator for AMSEA
testifying in Sitka, said AMSEA is an Alaska based nonprofit
corporation, and they have been training mariners and marine safety
instructors from all over Alaska for the last 10 years. He noted
Alaska's recreational and commercial boaters suffer the highest
fatality rate in the nation. However, partly as a result of
AMSEA's efforts and the efforts of all of the volunteers who help
AMSEA, the recreational and commercial fishing fatality rate has
dropped about 50 percent in the last several years. He also
pointed out AMSEA's unique Alaska specific program has been
emulated on all other three coasts of the nation and Alaska is now
recognized by many in the nation as a place to go for quality
hands-on training. He stressed that AMSEA has no secured funding
in sight for the next fiscal year.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if private parties contribute to this
nonprofit organization and if they are actively soliciting
contributions from private parties. MR. DZUGAN replied that AMSEA
has about 100 members around the state, and they do contribute to
AMSEA's effort.
Number 560
MARK JOHNSON , Chief, Community Health & Emergency Medical Services,
Department of Health & Social Services, stated drowning is a major
problem in the state, and there is no other comprehensive program
like AMSEA that is offered in the state to address this issue.
He said drowning is not only a problem among the commercial fishing
community, it is a statewide problem that affects most regions and
most age groups. The department feels AMSEA has been successful,
and they believe supporting AMSEA is in the best interest.
MARIAH OFFER , an AMSEA instructor testifying in Kodiak, speaking to
the importance of the prevention of marine accidents, said AMSEA
has been a great support in keeping her up with requirements and
changes in regulations and information.
TAPE 96-43, SIDE B
Number 010
JANE EIZMAN , a 19-year commercial fisherman testifying in Kodiak,
spoke to the improvement in safety measures being taken by
fishermen in the last 19 years, and she attributed the
understanding of safety regulations and the proper use of safety
equipment to AMSEA's efforts. She noted she is an AMSEA
instructor, as well as teacher of fisheries science at Kodiak High
School, and AMSEA is an integral part of her marine and wilderness
safety survival training program that she offers at the high
school. She added that as a contributor to the Fishermen's Fund
for the last 19 years and different licenses that she has
purchased, she feels it is an appropriate use of funds.
HANK PENNINGTON , testifying in Kodiak, said he has worked on
extending marine safety and survival training to fishermen in
coastal communities and public schools in Alaska for the last 21
years. He said the genesis of AMSEA was the fact that no single
agency had either the expertise or the resources or the geographic
coverage to get this training out where it was needed. He voiced
his concern that if the legislation does not pass, AMSEA will
wither. He said what is needed is a stable base of funding for
AMSEA.
DEAN PADDOCK , testifying in Juneau on behalf of the Bristol Bay
Driftnetters' Association, said public safety is one of the truly
legitimate functions of government. The present day demand for
AMSEA came as a federal mandate, and it was a temporarily funded
mandate. He pointed out that it is already a user funded activity;
the fishermen have already paid. He said AMSEA has done a great
job at a very low cost benefit ratio, and he urged passage of the
legislation.
SENATOR LINCOLN offered as an amendment to page 1, line 8, after
the word "income" insert "from interest." She said if at some time
in the future there is any other type of income that is earned by
the fishermen's fund, this would clarify that the "up to 50 percent
of the income earned" relates to interest income.
BETTY MARTIN , Comptroller, Treasury Division, Department of
Revenue, explained that the fund could also earn realized and
unrealized gains. Currently, it earns actual interest that is paid
into it, and then there is realized and unrealized gains on the
fixed income securities, and all of that, the net number, is paid
into the general fund annually.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked Ms. Martin if she thought Senator Lincoln's
amendment was a good amendment for the purpose of the bill. MS.
MARTIN said she thought it was, because it will make a more
consistent cash flow to the fund.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if there was any objection to Senator
Lincoln's amendment. Hearing no objection, he stated the amendment
was adopted. He then asked for the pleasure of the committee.
SENATOR PEARCE moved CSSB 311(RES) and the accompanying fiscal
notes be passed out of committee with individual recommendations.
Hearing no objection, it was so ordered.
Number 235
CSHJR 58(RES) REFORM THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought CSHJR 58(RES) before the committee as the
final order of business.
ANTHONY KRUPPE , representing the Alaska Environmental Lobby (AEL),
stated they have several concerns with the legislation, but they
have narrowed it down to the two most important things that they
believe will strengthen the resolution.
The first suggested change is to delete the resolve clause on page
2, lines 7-9, which requests the Congress to proceed with
reauthorization of the Endangered Species Act, using HR 2275 as the
basis for the reauthorization legislation. He said he believes
that by deleting those lines, it will make the resolution a bit
stronger because AEL does not believe that HR 2275 is a piece of
legislation that the Alaska Legislature should support.
The second suggested change is to delete lines 22 and 23 on page 2
which eliminates the concept of "distinct population segment" from
the definition of "species." He said the concern with distinct
population segments in the definition of species could be resolved
by establishing an interpretation of the definition similar to the
policy supported by the National Marine Fisheries Service. Their
specification designates that species must satisfy particular
criteria distinguishing the segment of species as reproductively
isolated and significant in the evolution of the species.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN commented that if HR 2275 is used as the basis, it
does not necessarily mean that the bill as originally introduced
will become law. It is a starting point, and as Congress works to
get a consensus, the bill will probably be crafted along the way to
accommodate concerns, so he thinks using it as the mark-up vehicle
is fine, at least from the Alaska perspective, because it probably
comes the closest to accommodating some of the concerns we have as
a state to the implementation of ESA.
Number 400
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if it was correct that the "distinct
population segment" is causing problems with the management of our
fisheries in Alaska. JAY NELSON , Department of Fish & Game,
confirmed that the listed population of Snake River fall chinook
that is causing problems for the fisheries in Alaska is listed
under the "distinct population segment" provision of the law. He
added that the problem with the "distinct population segment" is it
benefits the state with regard to land vertebrates, in general,
but with fish it is a different situation. He said while the
administration is not satisfied with a blanket removal of the
"distinct population segment" provision, it agrees there probably
needs to be a more surgical solution to it. CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked
if inserting the words "for anadromous fish" after the word
"species" would help. MR. NELSON responded that would definitely
be more surgical.
Number 455
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if the Governor agrees with the position that
the Queen Charlotte goshawk and the Alexander Archipelago wolf are
distinct population segments deserving attention under ESA. MR.
NELSON responded that the Alexander Archipelago wolf and the Queen
Charlotte goshawk were both requested to be listed by a private
group based in the Lower 48 with two Alaskan citizens involved.
The proposal to list it as an endangered species was opposed by the
department, as well as opposed by the federal government, and now
there are pending lawsuits by that same private party to list them.
He added that the Queen Charlotte goshawk and the Alexander
Archipelago wolf are classified as subspecies. He said changing
that from a subspecies is a complicated thing, and the department
has not taken a position on that. Even if they were eliminated as
a subspecies, they still might under the Fish & Wildlife Service
decision fall under "distinct population segment." He also said
the Governor does not view HR 2477 as the best vehicle for
reauthorization of the Act.
TAPE 96-44, SIDE A
Number 015
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if the Governor is doing what he can to make
certain that this legislation doesn't pass. MR. NELSON answered
that with the exception of one letter from the Governor, they have
done nothing in the way of working on this legislation in
Washington, D.C. SENATOR TAYLOR asked if the Governor's letter was
supportive, and MR. NELSON answered that it wasn't. CHAIRMAN LEMAN
commented that if the Governor had a positive approach and told Mr.
Katz that we want to work this really hard and help our delegation,
then we might have a little bit different resolution.
There being no further testimony on CSHB 58(RES), CHAIRMAN LEMAN
asked for the pleasure of the committee.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved CSHJR 58(RES) be passed out of committee with
individual recommendations. SENATOR HOFFMAN objected. A vote of
the committee was taken with the following result: Senators Frank,
Pearce, Taylor and Leman voted "Yea" and Senator Hoffman voted
"Nay." The Chairman stated the motion carried.
There being no further business to come before the committee, the
meeting was adjourned at 5:16 p.m.
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