Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/18/1996 03:35 PM Senate RES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
March 18, 1996
3:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Loren Leman, Chairman
Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chairman
Senator Steve Frank
Senator Rick Halford
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
Senator Lyman Hoffman
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 201
"An Act relating to the employment of emergency fire-fighting
personnel by the commissioner of natural resources."
SENATE BILL NO. 215
"An Act streamlining the functions of state government, including
authorizing the commissioner of fish and game to award grants for
certain resource activities; allowing agents selling fish and game
licenses and tags to retain certain compensation; authorizing the
Department of Health and Social Services to award grants for
certain services for developmentally delayed or disabled children;
relating to rabies control and administration of flour and bread
standards by the Department of Environmental Conservation;
repealing the Athletic Commission, the regulation of boxing and
wrestling, the certification of professional geologists, and the
Water Resources Board; repealing certain filing statements and
bonds for enforcement and collection of certain taxes; and
providing for an effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 201 - No previous action to record.
SB 215 - No previous action to record.
WITNESS REGISTER
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of SB 201
George Yaska
Tanana Chiefs Conference, Inc.
122 1st Ave.
Fairbanks, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSSB 201(RES)
Craig Goodrich, State Fire Marshall
Division of Fire Prevention
Department of Public Safety
5700 E. Tudor Road
Anchorage, AK 99507-1225
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSSB 201(RES)
Ray Shinn,
Chitna Traditional Village Council
P.O. Box 129
Glennallen, AK 99588
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports CSSB 201(RES)
Tom Boutin, State Forester
Division of Forestry
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave., 3rd Floor
Juneau, AK 99801-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on CSSB 201(RES)
Nico Bus, Acting Director
Division of Support Services
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on CSSB 201(RES) and
SB 215
Geron Bruce, Legislative Liaison
Department of Fish & Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99811-5526
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained Sections 1 - 4 of SB 215
Kevin Brooks, Director
Division of Administrative Services
Department of Fish & Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99811-5526
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained Section 10 of SB 215
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 96-31, SIDE A
Number 001
SB 201 FIRE FIGHTING PERSONNEL EMPLOYMENT
CHAIRMAN LEMAN called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to
order at 3:35 p.m. He introduced SB 201 as the first order of
business and noted there was a proposed committee substitute for
the committee's consideration.
GEORGE YASKA , representing the Tanana Chiefs Conference, testified
in support for SB 201. He said it is an issue that has been near
to his heart and the fire fighters in the southern region (DNR's
jurisdiction) for some years. He said it always good to do
preventative work, and he thinks SB 201 does that very well.
Mr. Yaska related that he fought fires for many years in the past,
and in extremely heavy fire-fighting years they could have greatly
benefited from preventative work being done in the low fire-
fighting years. Most of the time that work isn't done primarily
because the statute doesn't allow emergency fire-fighting crews for
non-wildfire suppression.
Number 105
SENATOR TAYLOR moved CSSB 201(RES), draft "C," dated 2/10/96 be
adopted. Hearing no objection, the Chairman stated the committee
substitute was before the committee as a working document.
SENATOR LINCOLN , prime sponsor of SB 201, explained the only
difference in the committee substitute was a clarifying sentence
added on page 2, line 2, which reads: "The assignment of emergency
fire-fighting personnel to nonemergency activities may not be used
to replace permanent or seasonal state employees."
Senator Lincoln said the legislation was introduced to provide the
Department of Natural Resource with the authority to utilize
emergency fire-fighting employees for fire management, fire
suppression and fire prevention activities by adding a new
subsection to AS 41.15.030. Existing law authorizes the
commissioner to hire fire-fighting personnel, but does not
expressly authorize their use for fire prevention, hazard
reduction, or other related activities.
SB 201 would clarify that emergency fire-fighting personnel could
be employed by the department in nonemergency circumstances to
construct and maintain fire breaks and trails, remove brush and
timber, conduct prescribed burns and improve wildlife habitat. The
enactment of the bill into law also will ensure the Department of
Natural Resources to take advantage of existing federal money for
nonemergency fire prevention projects. In FY 95, the Division of
Forestry received approval to receive and expend up to $500,000 in
federal receipts to supply emergency fire-fighting crews to federal
agencies on a reimbursable basis. Presently, of the $500,000 that
is available through federal money, the Department of Natural
Resources has already identified projects totaling $250,000. SB
201 would enable these federal dollars to be utilized by the
already trained fire-fighting crews for the projects that are
identified.
Senator Lincoln said she thinks the impact of the bill is a very
positive one on the state with having up to half a million dollars
of federal money coming into the state, as well as a positive
impact on the state's resources.
Number 217
CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted the bill carries zero fiscal notes, but he
wondered how there can be no fiscal impact when the commissioner's
authority for hiring is expanded. SENATOR LINCOLN responded that
it doesn't expend any money; it brings federal money in.
SENATOR TAYLOR also questioned if there shouldn't be a fiscal note
when their is an expenditure of federal funds. NICO BUS , Acting
Director, Division of Support Services, Department of Natural
Resources, clarified that the reason there is not a fiscal note is
because the legislation does not mandate that the department do
anything. It gives the department the statutory authority to
utilize the federal funds for emergency fire-fighting personnel for
fire prevention and other activities. He added that the language
would also allow them to use state money, if appropriated, but
there is no money appropriated for that.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if the department is now doing any fire
suppression, hazard reduction, fire prevention, habitat
restoration, etc., without this explicit authorization. MR. BUS
responded they currently do certain forest management functions,
but they do not use emergency fire crews to perform these
functions.
SENATOR HALFORD questioned how this applies to the fire suppression
fund. SENATOR LINCOLN responded it is her understanding that the
fire suppression dollars are for just that; SB 201 clarifies that
the department can use and extend the federal funds for other
related fire prevention.
Number 322
CRAIG GOODRICH , State Fire Marshall, Division of Fire Prevention,
Department of Public Safety, testifying from Anchorage, said the
state of Alaska expends between $350,000,000 and $400,000,000 a
year on fire and fire suppression related issues, a portion of that
being wild land. He said he thinks it is very easy to overlook the
value of fire prevention efforts and activities, and he can see
nothing in this bill that does more than allow for that to happen.
The bill does nothing but benefit the residents of the state and
those bush communities. He voiced support for the legislation by
the department, the State Fire Chiefs Association and the State
Fire Fighters Association.
RAY SHINN , Director of Natural Resources for the Chitna Traditional
Village Council, as well as manager of the Taslina Hot Shots,
testified from Glennallen in support of SB 201. He said this is
something they have been doing for the past 15 years, and there are
numerous spin-off benefits when something like is done with the
emergency fire-fighting crews throughout the state.
TOM BOUTIN , State Forester, Division of Forestry, Department of
Natural Resources, related there are 73 of the 16-person emergency
fire-fighting crews in the state. The Division of Forestry manages
46 of them and the balance is managed by the Bureau of Land
Management's Alaska Fire Service. Also, the Fire Service has two
20-person hot shot crews, as well as Ray Shinn's type one crew.
Each crew is autonomous; the 16-person crew is normally from a
single village. The average wage, including overtime, paid to
emergency fire fighters in 1995 was $12.76 an hour.
He pointed out that these fire-fighting crews are also sent outside
the state where there is much demand for them when there is a high
fire season. The reports the division gets from the Lower 48 is
that these crews are very hard working, well trained, cost
effective and very safe.
Mr. Boutin also noted that these crews are called out on a
rotational basis, so no one agency's crews are favored. He said in
concept and in practice, that probably should eliminate the concern
that anybody might have that it's an incentive for someone to
originate a fire in order to get work since the rotational basis
would mean that a crew in one part of the state wouldn't
necessarily be the crew that would fight a fire in that part of the
state.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked how Alaska's crews compare with crews outside
of Alaska. MR. BOUTIN related that a report comes back with every
single incident, and the Lower 48 states and the federal agencies
really can't say enough good about the crews that are sent out.
Some crews were sent to the Yukon this past year and the governor
and commissioner received letters back saying what a good account
those people gave of themselves.
Number 470
SENATOR HALFORD said in the first section of the bill the exemption
for the personnel is basically an exemption of the whole State
Personnel Act and that exemption is based on the emergency nature
of fire fighting, etc. He expressed concern about going around the
personnel act for essentially year-round employees doing year-round
work, and he wondered if the Department of Labor had looked at this
legislation. SENATOR LINCOLN replied that she thinks the language
added in the committee substitute addresses his concern, and that
there was some involvement by the Department of Labor in the
legislation.
SENATOR HALFORD asked if there is a way to draft the legislation so
that it would cover only federal money. MR. BOUTIN responded that
there is, but in order to use state money, there would have to be
an appropriation made by the legislature.
SENATOR FRANK said his only concern is that some previous governors
have declared emergencies and then had the authority to spend any
monies in the state treasury, as well as municipal monies. MR.
BOUTIN clarified the intent is to be able to use these emergency
fire fighters, which are the 16-person autonomous crews, for work
in addition to fire suppression as there might be a demand out
there, such as the prescribed burn on the Kenai moose range.
SENATOR HALFORD said there is a special mechanism that allows the
fire suppression fund to go forward outside of its own limits and
outside of the amount of money that's there, and he and Senator
Frank are concerned that there not be an automatic appropriating
mechanism attached to this bill. SENATOR LINCOLN reiterated that
this was not the intent of the legislation and she does not read
the language that way, but if there was a way to modify the
language to address their concern, she would not have a problem
with that. SENATOR FRANK pointed out the bill would be going to
the Finance Committee and they could take a closer look at it
there.
Number 545
SENATOR TAYLOR moved that CSSB 201(RES) be passed out of committee
with individual recommendations. CHAIRMAN LEMAN objected and
stated he wanted to hold the bill until the next meeting in order
to take a closer look at the fiscal notes because there is question
as to whether they meet the requirements for fiscal notes on bills.
SENATOR TAYLOR withdrew his motion to pass CSSB 201(RES) out of
committee.
Number 575
SB 215 OMNIBUS STATE AGENCY OPERATONS & PROGRAM
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought SB 215 before the committee as the next
order of business. He stated the committee would be dealing with
only Sections 1 - 4 and Sections 9 and 10 of the bill.
GERON BRUCE , Legislative Liaison, Department of Fish and Game,
addressing Section 1 - 4, said there are basically two provisions
in those sections that this legislation accomplishes. Section one
provides the Department of Fish and Game with authority to award
grants for protecting, maintaining, improving, or extending fish,
game, or aquatic plant resources of the state.
TAPE 96-31, SIDE B
Number 001
Sections 2, 3 and 4 deal with the streamlining of vendor
compensation for the sale of recreational hunting and fishing
licenses and crew member licenses. The vendors receive some
compensation which is intended to defray the costs of the service
they provide. Right now, the vendors receive the compensation in
a two-stage process: (1) they get to retain five percent up front;
and (2) they receive payment for additional compensation later. He
said the legislation will allow the vendors to retain the total
value of the compensation at the same time rather than it being a
two-step process.
Number 015
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if the $50 per year threshold was to entice
vendors to offer the service. MR. BRUCE answered that it has been
there for a long time, and he doesn't recollect the original cause
for setting it there, but he thought it was intended to provide at
least a minimum level of compensation for people that were doing
this as a service.
Number 030
SENATOR PEARCE , in referring to Section 1, said she thought the
legislation was giving extremely broad authority, and she asked
what can't the department do now that they want to be able to do
through this legislation. MR. BRUCE explained that the department
would like to be able to participate in partnerships with private
land owners, particularly along the Kenai River where they are
interested in improving the river front edge of their property in
a manner that is habitat friendly for fish. The department cannot
currently, other than through a competitive bid process, get money
to a private land owner. They have been going through a federal
agency, which has that authority, and they have been passing the
money through to a local property owner based on a set of criteria
that the property owner must meet in order to receive the money.
It is a 50/50 match with 50 percent of the funding coming from the
state and the land owner providing the other 50 percent. The
funding the department is currently using to do these kinds of
projects comes from two sources: (1) criminal settlement monies
relating to the Exxon Valdez disaster; and (2) money from the
National Marine Fisheries Service. The department has allocated a
portion of those monies to go toward these kind of projects.
SENATOR PEARCE said as she recalls, the legislature already gave
the department specific authority to pass those monies to local
governments and it could then be granted to private citizens. MR.
BRUCE agreed that a portion of the money did go to the Kenai
Peninsula Borough for some work there, but the remaining funds did
not go to them. They did not get a mechanism within the department
to work with private land owners. He added that the projects in
the program have been very popular and very successful.
Number 120
SENATOR TAYLOR expressed his continuing concern about habitat
enhancement on the Kenai River, particularly at flood time when the
river changes its course drastically. He questioned if there was
a rationale here and an overall plan. MR. BRUCE replied the
department is looking at the long range, recognizing that the river
does flood, and they are trying to develop ways of protecting
private property and maintaining the fish productivity of the river
for the long term. He said the Kenai has attracted so much
attention because if a very well known, highly regarded, highly
visited river that has some spectacular fishing opportunities, but
that doesn't mean to say that it is the only river in the state
that should get attention.
Number 200
MR. BRUCE discussed various methods being used for stream
stabilization, such as revegatation, constructing structures that
prevent erosion, floating docks instead of fixed docks, etc. He
also informed the members that he would provide them with an
evaluation sheet of all the different projects that private land
owners applied for this year.
Number 255
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what part of natural erosion and geology does
the Department of Fish and Game not understand. MR. BRUCE
acknowledged that there are natural forces that will overwhelm even
the best human efforts, but he said he thinks there a lot of other
less extreme conditions that we can influence and we can mitigate.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted he has looked at different habitat enhancement
projects in other states that have been quite successful and at a
fairly low cost. He suggested those are the types of projects the
department should be looking at. MR. BRUCE said what they are
doing right now is just one option, but this is an area that has a
lot of potential for fine tuning for particular circumstances both
for the habitat and the financial resources available. He added
that right now they have to go through another agency to award
these grants, which means overhead, and they believe it would be
more efficient to be able to do it within the Department of Fish &
Game. CHAIRMAN LEMAN said he'd like to see the department do
innovative things with these projects that will maximize the use of
the dollars, such as using volunteers, or using prison inmates,
etc.
Number 400
KEVIN BROOKS , Director, Division of Administrative Services,
Department of Fish and Game, speaking to Section 10, said the first
two repealers in that section apply to Fish and Game. The cites of
Title 16 are repealers for the fish and game licensing statutes as
they currently read for vendor compensation.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked how many vendors would be affected if the $50
per year compensation in Section 2 were deleted or reduced. MR.
BROOKS replied it could be in the area of a couple hundred vendors;
there are 1,400 vendors statewide. He said he agreed with the
Chairman's earlier comment that it serves as an enticement,
especially in the more remote areas.
Number 505
NICO BUS , Acting Director, Division of Support Services, Department
of Natural Resources, speaking to Section 9, explained the
repealers (AS 46.15.190 - AS 46.15.240) repeal the Water Resource
Board, which has not been funded or held meetings for three years.
SENATOR TAYLOR expressed his concern that it is his understanding
that there are 4,000 permit applications awaiting action on water
rights. MR. BUS acknowledged there is a backlog, but he wasn't
sure the 4,000 figure was correct. He said the Division of Mining
and Water Management handles those applications and they are
working hard to process the applications in order to get rid of the
backlog. He noted the Water Resource Board is strictly an advisory
board and they do not handle those applications. He also pointed
out that a lot of the applications are renewals, and one of the
things the department is looking at is changing it from a yearly
renewal requirement to renewing every five or ten years.
Number 550
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if there are some overlapping responsibilities
with the Soil and Water Conservation Board and the Water Resource
Board. MR. BUS said the Soil and Water Conservation Board is
basically advising the commissioner and the governor on local area
districts, and he thought expanding their role could be looked at.
There being no further testimony on SB 215 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked for
the pleasure of the committee.
SENATOR PEARCE moved that Section 1 be deleted from SB 215.
CHAIRMEN LEMAN objected. A hand vote was taken with the following
result: Senators Halford, Taylor and Pearce voted "Yea" and
Chairman Leman voted "Nay." The Chairman stated the motion
carried.
SENATOR HALFORD moved that CSSB 215(RES) and the accompanying
fiscal notes be passed out of committee with individual
recommendations. Hearing no objection, it was so ordered.
TAPE 96-32, SIDE A
Number 001
There being no further business to come before the committee, the
meeting was adjourned at 5:05 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|