Legislature(1995 - 1996)

05/05/1995 03:35 PM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                   SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE                                  
                          May 5, 1995                                          
                           3:35 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Senator Loren Leman, Chairman                                                 
 Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chairman                                            
 Senator Steve Frank                                                           
 Senator Rick Halford                                                          
 Senator Robin Taylor                                                          
 Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                    
 Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                         
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT                                                     
                                                                               
 All members present                                                           
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
 CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 38(FSH)                                     
 Relating to reauthorization of the Magnuson Fishery Conservation              
 and Management Act.                                                           
                                                                               
 CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 24(FSH)                                     
 Relating to reduction of wanton waste in North Pacific Ocean and              
 Bering Sea fisheries.                                                         
                                                                               
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 207(FIN) am                                             
 "An Act relating to adjustments to royalty reserved to the state to           
 encourage otherwise uneconomic production of oil and gas; and                 
 providing for an effective date."                                             
                                                                               
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 141(FSH)                                                
 "An Act relating to the appointment of members of the Board of                
 Fisheries."                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 28                                                
 Requesting that the Federal Subsistence Board not adopt the                   
 proposed subsistence moose hunting regulations for the Kenai                  
 Peninsula and the customary and traditional use determination for             
 certain communities on the Kenai Peninsula.                                   
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
                                                                               
 HJR 38 - No previous action to record.                                        
                                                                               
 HJR 24 - No previous action to record.                                        
                                                                               
 HB 207 - See Resources minutes dated 4/22/95, 4/26/95, 4/28/95,               
          5/1/95, 5/3/95.                                                      
 HB 141 - See Resources minutes dated 4/22/95, 5/3/95.                         
                                                                               
 SJR 28 - No previous action to record.                                        
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
 Cheryl Sutton, Staff to Representative Carl Moses                             
 State Capitol                                                                 
 Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Present to respond to questions on CSHJR               
                      38(FSH) and CSHJR 24(FSH)                                
                                                                               
 Representative Alan Austerman                                                 
 State Capitol                                                                 
 Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Prime Sponsor of HB 141                                
                                                                               
 Senator Judy Salo                                                             
 State Capitol                                                                 
 Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Prime Sponsor of SJR 28                                
                                                                               
 Robert Bosworth, Director                                                     
 Division of Subsistence                                                       
 Department of Fish & Game                                                     
 P.O. Box 25526                                                                
 Juneau, AK 99802-5526                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Administration supports SJR 28                         
                                                                               
 Gary Oskolkoff                                                                
 Ninilchik, AK                                                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Offered comments on SJR 28                             
                                                                               
 Les Palmer                                                                    
 P.O. Box 631                                                                  
 Sterling, AK 99672                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supports SJR 28                                        
                                                                               
 Dale Bondurant                                                                
 HC 1, Box 1197                                                                
 Soldotna, AK 999669                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Offered comments on SJR 28                             
                                                                               
 Theo Matthews                                                                 
 United Cook Inlet Drift Association                                           
 P.O. Box 4649                                                                 
 Kenai, AK 99611                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supports SJR 28 as a statement                         
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 95-57, SIDE A                                                           
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN LEMAN  called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to             
 order at 3:35 p.m.                                                            
  CSHJR 38(FSH) MAGNUSON FISHERY CONSERVATION & MGMT ACT                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN announced  CSHJR 38(FSH)  was before the committee for          
 its consideration.  There being no questions or testimony on the              
 legislation, he asked for the pleasure of the committee.                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR HALFORD moved that CSHJR 38(FSH) be passed out of committee           
 with individual recommendations.  Hearing no objection, it was so             
 ordered.                                                                      
   CSHJR 24(FSH) WASTE IN PACIFIC AND BERING SEA FISHERY                    
                                                                              
 SENATOR LEMAN announced  CSHJR 24(FSH)  was before the committee for          
 its consideration.  There being no questions or testimony on the              
 legislation, he asked for the pleasure of the committee.                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR HALFORD moved that CSHJR 24(FSH) be passed out of committee           
 with individual recommendations.  Hearing no objection, it was so             
 ordered.                                                                      
     CSHB 207(FIN) am ADJUSTMENTS TO OIL AND GAS ROYALTIES                    
  Number 040                                                                  
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN brought CSHB 207(FIN) am before the committee as the            
 next order of business.   He noted that at the May 3 meeting on the           
 legislation a Resources SCS and amendments to it were adopted, and            
 that Commissioner Shively of the Department of Natural Resources              
 indicated that the bill that resulted is one that he can accept.              
                                                                               
 SENATOR LINCOLN offered the following amendment to SCS CSHB                   
 207(RES):                                                                     
                                                                               
 Page 5, line 1:  After "application" delete "if the preliminary              
 findings and determination concerns a royalty increase, decrease,             
 or other adjustment under (1)(A) of this subsection, the                      
 preliminary findings and determination shall also be presented to             
 the governor for the governor's approval or disapproval; the                  
 governor may not delegate a determination to approve or disapprove            
 a preliminary findings and determination under this subparagraph;"           
                                                                               
 Page 7, line 22 after "determination" delete "and present it to the          
 governor for the governor's approval or disapproval; the governor             
 may not delegate a decision to approve or disapprove a final                  
 findings and decision  presented under this subparagraph; the                 
 commissioner's final findings and determination regarding a royalty           
 increase, decrease, or other adjustment prepared under this                   
 subparagraph, if approved by the governor, is,"                              
                                                                               
 Senator Lincoln said her amendment deletes the language that                  
 requires the approval or disapproval of the governor on a findings            
 and determination because she doesn't believe that the governor has           
 to micro-manage whether the findings are appropriate or not.  It              
 would leave the discretion of approving or disapproving up to the             
 commissioner who is appointed by the governor in the first place.             
                                                                               
 Senator Lincoln moved the adoption of her amendment to SCS CSHB               
 207(RES).  Objections were heard.  The roll was taken with the                
 following result:  Senators Hoffman and Lincoln voted "Yea" and               
 Senators Pearce, Halford, Frank and Leman voted "Nay."  Senator               
 Leman stated the motion failed.                                               
                                                                               
 SENATOR HALFORD moved that SCS CSHB 207(RES) be passed out of                 
 committee with individual recommendations.  Hearing no objection,             
 it was so ordered.                                                            
            CSHB 141(FSH) TERM OF FISH BOARD MEMBERS                          
                                                                              
 Number 125                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN announced  CSHB 141(FSH)  was before the committee for          
 its consideration.                                                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ALVIN AUSTERMAN, prime sponsor of HB 141, directed             
 attention to two proposed amendments to the legislation.                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR moved the adoption of the following Amendment No. 1:           
                                                                              
 Amendment No. 1                                                              
                                                                               
 Page 1, line 11:  Delete "and until a successor is appointed and              
                 the successor's term begins"                                  
                                                                               
 Hearing no objection, SENATOR LEMAN stated the amendment was                  
 adopted.                                                                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR HOFFMAN moved the adoption of the following Amendment No.             
 2:                                                                            
                                                                               
 Amendment No. 2                                                             
                                                                               
 Page 1, line 14:  Delete "a vacancy" and insert "the vacancy that             
                   will arise"                                                 
                                                                               
 Page 2, line 1:  Delete "other than by the expiration of a term"              
                                                                               
 Hearing no objection, SENATOR LEMAN stated the amendment was                  
 adopted and the amendments would be incorporated into a Resources             
 SCS.  He then asked for the pleasure of the committee.                        
                                                                               
 SENATOR PEARCE moved that SCS CSHB 141(RES) be passed out of                  
 committee with individual recommendations.  Hearing no objection,             
 it was so ordered.                                                            
        SJR 28 KENAI PENINSULA SUBSISTENCE PROPOSAL                         
                                                                              
 SENATOR LEMAN introduced  SJR 28  as the final order of business.             
                                                                               
 SENATOR JUDY SALO, prime sponsor of SJR 28, explained the intent of           
 the resolution is to get information to the Federal Subsistence               
 Board, asking them to not adopt the proposed subsistence moose                
 regulations on the Kenai Peninsula and the customary and                      
 traditional use determination for certain communities on the                  
 peninsula.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Senator Salo cautioned that it is likely there will be problems               
 this fall because of some communities being determined rural and              
 even more rural communities next to them being determined non-                
 rural.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Senator Salo said it is her intention to deal with the current                
 situation on the Kenai Peninsula by getting additional information            
 to the board to ask them to stay the decision, and she will also be           
 testifying to the Federal Subsistence Board and has offered written           
 testimony as well.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 190                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass SJR 28 out of committee with                     
 individual recommendations and then withdrew his motion so that               
 witnesses could testify.                                                      
                                                                               
 ROBERT BOSWORTH, Director, Division of Subsistence, Department of             
 Fish & Game, stated he was present to respond to questions.                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked if the department has had any comments from the           
 communities of Cooper Landing, Ninilchik and Hope, and if there is            
 strong community support in opposition to the proposed federal                
 regulations.  ROBERT BOSWORTH answered that the department has not            
 had any communication from those areas, and he suggested they may             
 be commenting directly to the Federal Subsistence Board.                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked if the department has had experience working             
 with the Federal Subsistence Board.  ROBERT BOSWORTH related the              
 department has two department liaisons to the board, one from the             
 wildlife conservation division and one from the subsistence                   
 division.  SENATOR TAYLOR commented that he applauds the sponsor              
 for her good faith in attempting to bring a resolution to the                 
 attention of a Congress that gave us the Federal Subsistence Board,           
 but he doubts seriously that anyone will pay any attention to us              
 back there.                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR SALO noted that her office has a petition with 1,800                  
 signatures that were gathered on the peninsula in just over a                 
 week's time after the regulations were promulgated.  She pointed              
 out that many of the signatures were from communities that would              
 get the subsistence advantage.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 275                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked if under the proposed regulations, the people             
 living in Cooper Landing, Ninilchik and Hope will have the                    
 opportunity to hunt anywhere or only in the game management unit              
 they are in.    ROBERT BOSWORTH answered that as he understands the           
 Regional Council proposal that led to the customary and traditional           
 findings, the findings were specific to a community, a game                   
 management unit and a species.  For example, residents of Ninilchik           
 were found to have customary and traditional use of moose within a            
 particular game management unit that was adjacent to Ninilchik.               
                                                                               
 Number 305                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN stated the committee would take testimony from                  
 witnesses waiting to testify over the teleconference network.                 
                                                                               
 GARY OSKOLKOFF, a member of the Ninilchik Traditional Council, as             
 well as a member of the Federal Subsistence Advisory Council for              
 Southcentral Alaska, testified from Ninilchik.                                
                                                                               
 Mr. Oskolkoff stated that as the resolution is proposed, he thinks            
 it is going to be very difficult for the Federal Subsistence Board            
 to follow the suggestion of delaying the implementation, simply               
 because they are not allowed to under the law without closing down            
 all of the federal lands on the Kenai Peninsula.  If they have to             
 go against the advisory council's opinion or decision that there is           
 customary and traditional use and then there is a season there,               
 they can only deny that for a couple of basic reasons.  One is that           
 it is going to be a detriment to the resource, which would lead to            
 a complete lockup and then no one would be participating in that              
 hunt, whether they were subsistence or not.                                   
                                                                               
 Mr. Oskolkoff said in the long run, there is an imperfect system,             
 that being the federal system.  There is not a subsistence system             
 in the state right now and, therefore, we have to go with the                 
 imperfect system.                                                             
                                                                               
 Mr. Oskolkoff said the resolution makes references to notification            
 and the citizens not having adequate notice to testify to the                 
 advisory council before this proposal was made, but there were                
 several meetings over a two-year period that had more than adequate           
 notice.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Mr. Oskolkoff doesn't believe that under current state law there is           
 going to be the ability for the state to resume any form of                   
 subsistence management, especially with the deadlock that exists              
 between some rural and urban legislators, as well as some of the              
 constituents groups that were formed on one side or the other of              
 the issue.  He suggested there is a need to take a good look at               
 what the real law is, how it really affects people, and how those             
 people on the advisory council came up with their final proposal.             
                                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 376                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Oskolkoff to explain how a state system              
 could be imposed and how that state system could avoid the                    
 implementation of the federal system.  GARY OSKOLKOFF said his                
 understanding is that it would take a change in the Alaska                    
 Constitution to allow for either a rural preference or some other             
 type of preference that most of the people of the state of Alaska             
 would find a consensus on that would meet some of the criteria in             
 Title 8, ANILCA.                                                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR stated that Attorney General Botelho has testified             
 on three different occasions that it doesn't matter what changes              
 are made to the Constitution, the state does not have the ability             
 to change any federal law with our state laws or our state                    
 constitution; Title 8, ANILCA, must be changed.  He asked Mr.                 
 Oskolkoff what legal authority he was basing his statement on that            
 it would take a change in the Constitution.  GARY OSKOLKOFF said he           
 was relying on the word passed down to him from the Assistant                 
 Attorney General of the United States through a memorandum.  He               
 added he is glad to listen to all opinions on how the law could or            
 could not be changed in order to allow for this to happen.                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR said whenever he asks the question of whether the              
 federal law is supreme over state law and over state constitution,            
 the answer is always yes and that it can only be changed by the               
 Federal Congress.  He said if, in fact,  Mr. Oskolkoff has anybody            
 who is advising him differently,  he would like to see a copy of              
 that legal advice because it will be of monumental impact if we can           
 find legal authority that says a state can somehow change federal             
 law.  GARY OSKOLKOFF responded that he is asserting that if there             
 can be a consensus reached by a majority of Alaskans and a majority           
 of the interest groups, Alaska's congressional delegation will be             
 able to take that to Congress and ask Congress to change the law to           
 allow for that to happen.  That is his preface for saying there               
 could be a change in federal law, although he is not advocating               
 that at this particular time because he does not think the parties            
 are close enough together on their discussions, nor does he think             
 enough discussions are actually taking place between the interest             
 groups to allow for that.                                                     
 Number 525                                                                    
                                                                               
 LES PALMER, a resident of Sterling, stated his support for SJR 28             
 and urged the committee's support as well.  He said it is absurd              
 and outrageous that thousands of Kenai Peninsula residents might              
 not be able to hunt or fish in their own backyard because a few               
 think they deserve a special subsistence preference.                          
                                                                               
 Mr. Palmer said the resolution addresses a problem that began in              
 1990 when the feds designated seven Kenai Peninsula communities               
 rural.  He opposed that decision in writing and he predicted that             
 making the modern highway-connected communities of the peninsula              
 eligible for subsistence preference would divide race against race,           
 neighbor against neighbor and it would make a mockery of the whole            
 idea of subsistence.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 555                                                                    
                                                                               
 DALE BONDURANT of Soldotna stated Alaska's Constitution is probably           
 the best constitution of any in the United States as far as equal             
 rights to use our fish and game and here we are trying to                     
 circumvent that constitution and bow over to ANILCA.  He said we              
 are going to have this crammed down our throats until the public              
 stands up and decides that they are not going to accept it.  He               
 cautioned that if we start messing with the state constitution,               
 there are going to be some lawsuits and they are going to over the            
 equal protection rights of the people of Alaska.                              
                                                                               
 Number 585                                                                    
                                                                               
 THEO MATTHEWS, testifying from Soldotna on behalf of the United               
 Cook Inlet Drift Association stated their support for the                     
 resolution as a statement that ANILCA must be amended to define the           
 term "rural."  He said it is ludicrous for the federal government             
 to demand any kind of preference, rural or otherwise, and not tell            
 us what it means.  He reiterated the association views the                    
 resolution as an important statement, and he suggested the concept            
 of fish and game should also be addressed in the resolution.                  
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-57, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 020                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked if, in Mr. Matthews' opinion, any of the three            
 communities named in the resolution qualify as rural.  THEO                   
 MATTHEWS answered that they have testified in the past that no                
 community on the main peninsula qualifies as rural.                           
                                                                               
 Number 030                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked if the administration has a position on SJR 28,           
 and ROBERT BOSWORTH acknowledged that they do support it.                     
                                                                               
 Number 050                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LINCOLN moved and asked unanimous consent that SJR 28 be              
 passed out of committee with individual recommendations.  SENATOR             
 LEMAN objected to make the statement that he thinks the resolution            
 ought to be expanded to include some other things, but that could             
 be done in the next committee of referral.  He then removed his               
 objection and stated SJR 28 was moved out of committee.                       
 There being no further business to come before the committee,                 
 SENATOR LEMAN adjourned the meeting at 4:28 p.m.                              
                                                                               

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