Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/27/1995 03:36 PM Senate RES
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE February 27, 1995 3:36 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Loren Leman, Chairman Senator Steve Frank Senator Rick Halford Senator Robin Taylor Senator Lyman Hoffman COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chairman Senator Georgianna Lincoln COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 27 am Requesting the United States Congress to accommodate Alaska's wetlands circumstances in the federal Clean Water Act reauthorization by increasing statutory flexibility on wetlands use in Alaska, and to recognize Alaska's unique and outstanding history of wetlands conservation. SENATE BILL NO. 93 "An Act relating to the disposal of state land along the Dalton Highway; and providing for an effective date." HOUSE BILL NO. 121 (title am) "An Act relating to salvage sales of state timber and to negotiated sales of state timber in areas where there exists, or will exist in two years, a high level of unemployment, underutilized manufacturing capacity, and an underutilized cut of timber, timber that will lose substantial economic value due to insects, disease, or fire, or timber to be cleared for non-forest uses." PREVIOUS ACTION HJR 27 - No previous senate committee action. SB 93 - No previous senate committee action. HB 121 - No previous senate committee action. WITNESS REGISTER Jeff Logan, Aide to Representative Green State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-4931 POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HJR 27 Ken Freeman Resource Development Council 121 W. Fireweed, No. 250 Anchorage, AK ¶276-0700 POSITION STATEMENT: supports HJR 27 Tony Turrini National Wildlife Federation 750 W. 2nd St., Ste. 200, Anchorage, AK 99501¶258-4800 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 27 Julius Rockwell Anchorage Waterways Council 2944 Emory St., Anchorage, AK 99501¶277-7150 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27 Gershon Cohen, Executive Director Alaska Clean Water Alliance P.O. Box 1441, Haines, AK ¶766-2296 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27 Margaret Clabby 7960 S. Tongass Hwy, Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-0800 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27 Troy Reinhart Ketchikan Pulp Company P.O. Box 6600, Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-2151 POSITION STATEMENT: supports HJR 27 Terry Hermach Prince William Sound Conservation Alliance P.O. Box 2493, Valdez, AK 99686¶835-5473 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 27 Sharon Hawkins P.O. Box 210654, Auke Bay, AK 99821¶789-7414 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 27 Molly Sherman Alaska Environmental Lobby P.O. Box 22151, Juneau, AK 99802-2151¶463-3366 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 27 Malcolm Ford 145 E. 11th, Anchorage, AK 99501¶274-3621 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 27 Martha Levensaler 750 W. 2nd, Ste. 200, Anchorage, AK 99501¶258-4800 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27 Senator Mike Miller State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-4976 POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of SB 93 Ron Swanson, Director Division of Land, Department of Natural Resources 3601 C St., Ste. 1122, Anchorage, AK 99503-5947¶762-2692 POSITION STATEMENT: supports SB 93 Joe Levesque, Attorney North Slope Borough P.O. Box 69, Barrow, AK 99723¶852-0300 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SB 93 Stanley Ned Tanana Chief's Conference 122 1st Ave., Fairbanks, AK 99701¶452-8251 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to SB 93 Dave Lacey P.O. Box 71372, Fairbanks, AK 99707¶474-8024 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SB 93 Bill Robertson Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce 709 2nd Ave., Fairbanks, AK 99701¶452-1105 POSITION STATEMENT: supports SB 93 Sara Hannan Alaska Environmental Lobby P.O. Box 22151, Juneau, AK 99802-2151¶463-3366 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to SB 93 & HB 121 Matt Kinney P.O. Box 1540, Valdez, AK 99686 POSITION STATEMENT: supports HJR 27 Representative Bill Williams State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-3424 POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 121 Carl Portman Resource Development Council 121 Fireweed, No. 250, Anchorage, AK 99503¶276-0700 POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121 Kathy Miller P.O. Box 9602, Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-9280 POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121 Donald Gentry Atikon Forest Products 51 Cube Cove, Juneau, AK 99850¶799-2259 POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121 Chris Gates Alaska Forest Association 111 Stedman St., Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-6114 POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121 Winslow Hoffman P.O. Box 1842, Homer, AK 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 121 Jeff Wraley P.O. Box 844, Homer, AK 99603¶ POSITION STATEMENT: is opposed to HJR 27 & HB 121 Ed Bailey P.O. Box 2994, Homer, AK 99603¶235-6262 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27 Dorne Hawxhurst Cordova District Fishermen United P.O. Box 939, Cordova, AK 99574¶424-3447 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HB 121 Dr. Riki Ott United Fishermen of Alaska P.O. Box 1430, Cordova, AK 99574¶424-3915 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HB 121 Louie Bencardino P.O. Box 2064, Seward, AK 99664¶224-5790 POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121 Rick Smeriglio P.O. Box 565, Seward, AK 99664¶288-3614 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HB 121 Doug Hanson, Inventory Forester Tanana Chief's Conference 122 1st Ave., Fairbanks, AK 99701¶452-8251 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 121 Danine Harbut, Executive Assistant Fairbanks Industrial Development Corporation 515 7th Ave., Ste. 320, Fairbanks, AK ¶452-2185 POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121 Duane Anderson 37685 Conner Road, Soldotna, AK 99669¶262-7233 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121 Ingrid Peterson P.O. Box 168, Anchor Point, AK 99556¶235-2800 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121 Ed Davis Alaska Wilderness, Recreation & Tourism Association P.O. Box 3332, Valdez, AK 99686¶ POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121 Chuck Achberger, Executive Director Juneau Chamber of Commerce 124 W. 5th St., Juneau, AK 99801¶586-6420 POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121 Wayne Nicolls, Legislative Liaison Alaska Society of American Foresters 9723 Trappers Ln., Juneau, AK 99801¶789-5405 POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121 Tom Boutin, State Forester Div. of Forestry, Department of Natural Resources 400 Willoughby Ave., 3rd Floor, Juneau, AK 99801-1796¶465-3379 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 121 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 95-16, SIDE A Number 001 SRES - 2/27/95 HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced that since the committee did not have a quorum, the committee would just take testimony. The committee began taking testimony at 3:36 p.m. The chairman stated the committee would first take testimony on HJR 27 and called the first witness. Number 020 JEFF LOGAN, Aide to Representative Green, prime sponsor of HJR 27, read the sponsor statement for the resolution to the committee. Number 040 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Logan if the policy on wetlands was a letter from the Army Corps of Engineers, or if it was a law that had been passed by congress. MR. LOGAN did not know if it is a law or not. SENATOR TAYLOR thought most of the policy on wetlands was dictated by an Army Corps of Engineers memo. Number 060 MR. LOGAN responded that is his understanding also. S.49, which the committee has a copy of, was introduced by Alaska's delegation to congress to try to clarify language from the corps. Section 3 is the amendment to the Federal Water Pollution Control Act. Representative Green has worked with the Alaska Wetlands Coalition and the congressional delegation's staff; this resolution is something they requested. Number 090 KEN FREEMAN, representing the Resource Development Council (RDC), testifying from Anchorage, stated the RDC supports HJR 27. Mr. Freeman believes the situation in Alaska is different from that of the rest of the country, and that most wetlands in Alaska are still undeveloped. Number 140 TONY TURRINI, representing the National Wildlife Federation, testifying from Anchorage, stated the federation is opposed to HJR 27. Mr. Turrini thinks the present Clean Water Act is adequate, and that HJR 27 is unneccesary. Mr. Turrini has submitted written testimony to the committee which will be copied for the members. SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Turrini if he thinks the passage of HJR 27 will have a negative economic impact on tourism and other businesses. Number 203 MR. TURRINI thinks if wetlands are destroyed, tourism will be negatively affected. Number 220 JULIUS ROCKWELL, representing the Anchorage Waterways Council, testifying from Anchorage, stated the council wants to maintain the remaining wetlands in the Anchorage area. He thinks the existing legislation is adequate. (Teleconference transmission is very difficult to understand). Number 245 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Rockwell if he would be happier with New England if over 50% of that area had been locked up and prevented from being developed. MR. ROCKWELL does not think half the state should be locked up; he wants to protect what is left in Anchorage. Number 263 GERSHON COHEN, Executive Director, Alaska Clean Water Alliance, testifying from Haines, does not think there is a problem with the current process for handling development in wetlands. He has not seen any permits turned down by the Army Corps of Engineers. (Teleconference transmission is very bad, Mr. Cohen's testimony is almost entirely unintelligible). Number 280 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Cohen, if all permits are routinely approved, why the permitting process is necessary. MR. COHEN thinks the permitting process gives projects needed scrutiny. Number 295 CHAIRMAN LEMAN officially called the Senate Resources Committee to order, since there is now a quorum. Present are Senators Frank, Hoffman, Taylor, and the chairman. MARGARET CLABBY, testifying from Ketchikan, stated she has read the Federal Clean Water Act and other documents relating to wetlands. Ms. Clabby stated she supports the Clean Water Act, and does not think Alaska should try to get out of it. Number 338 TROY REINHART, Employee Relations & Public Affairs Manager, Ketchikan Pulp Corporation (KPC), testifying from Ketchikan, stated KPC supports HJR 27 and its' goals. KPC also supports the comments RDC gave earlier in the hearing. Number 345 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Reinhart if he thinks there is anything in the resolution that would cause the whole wetlands law to be thrown out if it is passed. MR. REINHART responded he does not think that would happen. He thinks it would send a message to congress that Alaska is different. CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted that Senator Halford has joined the committee meeting. Number 359 TERRY HERMACH, Prince William Sound Conservation Alliance, testifying from Valdez, stated he is opposed to HJR 27. Mr. Hermach thinks Alaska should learn from the mistakes of the Lower Forty-Eight. Number 370 SHARON HAWKINS stated she participated in the round-table wetlands discussion in which federal, state, and local governments also participated. This was about a six-month long ongoing process. Ms. Hawkins informed the committee of the function of wetlands, and stated Alaska supports summer staging and feeding grounds for over 95% of the world's seabirds. She thinks HJR 27 should reflect the fact that only a small percentage of Alaska's wetlands supports the seabirds. Ms. Hawkins stated Army Corps of Engineers' review of permits is an important tool for wetlands development, because the corps can add its' expertise to development. Ms. Hawkins last point is that wetlands within parklands are not necessarily protected from development. She gave as an example placer mining taking place in Denali National Park. MS. HAWKINS stated that at the end of the round-table discussion in which she participated, it was concluded that there is quite a bit of flexibility in wetlands development. She does not see a problem with the current system and does not think the regulations should be ignored. Number 435 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Ms. Hawkins what part of HJR 27 indicates to her there would not continue to be Army Corps of Engineers' review. MS. HAWKINS replied it is her impression that exempting Alaska from a "no net loss policy" would mean no review by the corps. She thinks that would mean no mitigation of private gain from public lands would be required. CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted that he and Ms. Hawkins have different understandings of what that language would do. He does not think the language would do what Ms. Hawkins thinks it would do. Number 460 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins who she represented in the round- table process and how she was named to the round-table. MS. HAWKINS responded she was a citizen representative, and she does not know how she was named to the round-table. She was contacted by the Army Corps of Engineers and asked if she would like to serve. She was representing the environmental community, but is not sure how she was chosen. SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins, if 375,000 acres of birdfeeding and nesting areas are essential, how that land was missed after sixty or seventy million acres have already been classified as wilderness. MS. HAWKINS replied that the birds require a coastal estuarian setting. There is very little of that type of habitat. The large amount of acreage to which Senator Taylor is referring may be wetlands, but it may not have any feeding area. SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins if it would be okay with her to take 375,000 acres out of wilderness classification and add the 375,000 acres necessary for bird nesting and feeding. MS. HAWKINS responded that land classified as wilderness does not preclude development. Number 490 MOLLY SHERMAN, Alaska Environmental Lobby, stated the lobby is opposed to HJR 27. She read a written statement which was also submitted to the committee. Number 508 SENATOR HALFORD asked Ms. Sherman in what communities wetlands had been destroyed, adversely affecting wildlife, fishing, and hunting. MS. SHERMAN responded that an earlier participant in the hearing, representing the Anchorage Waterways Council, mentioned that Anchorage's wetlands have been greatly affected by development, including the Potter Marsh flats. SENATOR HALFORD stated that Potter Marsh is full of waterfowl, is protected, and was created by the building of the road: it is the impoundment. Number 524 SENATOR TAYLOR asked if any of the witnesses who testified in opposition to HJR 27 ever applied for a corps permit. MS. SHERMAN replied she can check with members of the Alaska Environmental Lobby. She has worked in industry, and it is possible that companies she has worked for have applied for permits. SENATOR TAYLOR commented it is possible that there is a great difference in life experiences between those people who have applied for a permit and those who have not. Number 545 MALCOLM FORD, testifying from Anchorage, compared the environment in Alaska with the environment in England. (The teleconference transmission is very bad, and Mr. Ford's testimony is unintelligible for the most part). Number 568 MARTHA LEVENSALER, testifying from Anchorage, does not agree that since so much of Alaska's land is locked up, it does not need to be protected. Public land is still open to development. TAPE 95-16, SIDE B Number 580 MARTHA LEVENSALER stated the permitting process is important, even though most plans are approved, because the process frequently changes development plans to help protect resources. Number 565 JULIUS ROCKWELL, of the Anchorage Waterways Council, testifying from Anchorage added that members of the council have acquired permits. Number 550 SENATOR TAYLOR made a motion to discharge HJR 27 from the Senate Resources Committee with individual recommendations. CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, discharged HJR 27 from committee with individual recommendations. SRES - 2/27/95 SB 93 DISPOSAL OF LAND ALONG THE DALTON HWY CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up SB 93 as the next order of business before the Senate Resources Committee. The chairman called the first witness. Number 545 SENATOR MILLER, prime sponsor of SB 93, read the sponsor statement for the bill. Senator Miller noted the existence of a proposed committee substitute, which would add the proper legal descriptions to the bill. Number 529 SENATOR HALFORD moved the adoption of the committee substitute for SB 93. CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, stated that the committee substitute had been adopted. Number 527 SENATOR HALFORD asked Senator Miller where people who work in these places would live, if the land will be non-residential. Would a person have to commute from Fairbanks? SENATOR MILLER does not believe that would be the case; however, Mr. Swanson could give a better answer to that question. Number 521 SENATOR TAYLOR suggested amending SB 93 by taking out the word "non." Anyone who wanted to live out there could just buy a piece of land from the state. SENATOR HOFFMAN asked Senator Miller how much land SB 93 would encompass. SENATOR MILLER responded Mr. Swanson would be better prepared to answer that question. CHAIRMAN LEMAN confirmed with Senator Miller that the changes in the committee substitute were just legal description corrections. Number 510 RON SWANSON, Director, Division of Land, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), stated about 30,000 acres have been identified within the development nodes; the state does not own all those lands. Before any activity could occur on those lands, we would have to go through a land-use planning process. At this point, the main concern is being able to provide essential traveler services along the Haul Road. SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Swanson what is meant by the term "non- residential." MR. SWANSON replied the intent is that the state not create a subdivision; then we would have to create the schools and the infrastructure. Certainly people could live within that existing facility. CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked what the responsibility of the State of Alaska would be if there were eight or more children living in an area. Number 492 SENATOR FRANK stated the idea is not to sponsor a state land disposal for residential purposes. Senator Frank asked Mr. Swanson's position on SB 93. MR. SWANSON answered, "Mr. Chairman, Senator Frank, it is, to provide those essential services." Number 482 JOE LEVESQUE, Attorney North Slope Borough (NSB), testifying from Barrow, commented the bill is moving forward very fast. He stated the Dalton Highway Coordinating Committee is proceeding in a prudent manner on the same subject. NSB thinks SB 93 would be best served if action on the bill was suspended until the findings of the Dalton Highway Coordinating Committee are complete. Mr. Levesque contends the state is unable to protect the resources and the citizens along the Haul Road corridor. Number 450 STANLEY NED, Tanana Chiefs Conference (TCC), testifying from Fairbanks, stated TCC is opposed to the Dalton Highway... because of the affect on subsistence lifestyles. (Teleconference transmission is very difficult to understand). Mr. Ned stated TCC is opposed to SB 93. Number 435 DAVE LACEY, Yukon River Tours, testifying from Fairbanks, does not see a need for SB 93. He is also concerned that there has been no input from local residents. He asked why the bill is being sponsored by a legislator who is not from the affected area, and thinks SB 93 is another unfunded mandate. Mr. Lacey believes the state needs another large wilderness attraction, and perhaps the Haul Road could be turned into something like that. He thinks SB 93 would cause strip development and therefore harm the tourism potential of the area. Number 405 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Lacey if he believes his business will be adversely affected by SB 93. MR. LACEY responded his business will be affected. Number 390 BILL ROBERTSON, Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce, testifying from Fairbanks, stated he is speaking in favor of SB 93. Mr. Robertson asserted that development planning for the area affected by SB 93 has been occurring for many years, and that the type of development being planned is node development, not strip development. Number 347 SARA HANNAN, Alaska Environmental Lobby, stated the lobby is opposed to SB 93. Ms. Hannan submitted written testimony to the committee. Ms. Hannan asserted that if the state allows for private ownership of lands, there is an obligation to protect that property: additional troopers, fish & wildlife protection officers, and additional schools will be needed. She also believes the more private property there is in that area, the more difficult it will be for the Trans-Alaska Gasline Corporation to build their gasline. Number 319 SENATOR FRANK emphasized his belief that there is a big distinction between opening land for general residential purposes, which carries great fiscal ramifications, and opening nodes for provision of essential services, which he does not think would have great fiscal ramifications. Surprise is expressed by several committee members that the Alaska Environmental Lobby is advising the legislature on budgetary matters, health & safety concerns, and gas-line development. MS. HANNAN responded that the lobby does spend a lot of time in coordination with resource developers. She does not think anyone could find anything saying the Alaska Environmental Lobby is opposed to development of Alaska resources. The lobby urges cautious, responsible development. Ms. Hannan also believes the State of Alaska has an obligation to educate Alaska's children; if there are eight or more children, the state has an obligation to provide a school and education services to those children. Number 294 SENATOR TAYLOR asks Ms. Hannan if the Alaska Environmental Lobby is opposed to the transfer of state land to private ownership. MS. HANNAN states the lobby is opposed to it in this instance, largely because member groups of the lobby from that area are already working on the issue through the Dalton Highway Study, and don't feel they have had a say in this process. Opposition is often mitigated by bringing people together to talk about the issue. Number 278 SENATOR FRANK confirmed with Ms. Hannan that the Alaska Environmental Lobby is not opposed to SB 93 for environmental reasons. SENATOR HALFORD moved to discharge SB 93 from the Senate Resources Committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR HOFFMAN objected to the motion. CHAIRMAN LEMAN called for a vote on the motion. The motion passed. Voting in favor of the motion were Senators Leman, Frank, Halford, and Taylor. Voting in opposition to the motion was Senator Hoffman. Senators Pearce and Lincoln were not present. SRES - 2/28/95 HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up HJR 27 under reconsideration. The chairman called the first witness to testify. Number 256 MATT KINNEY, testifying from Valdez, stated he supports HJR 27, but suggested amending the bill. On page 2, line 23, add the term, "feasible and prudent." He also thinks the definition of "wetlands" is too broad and should be further defined. Mr. Kinney asked Senator Taylor if he has ever applied for an Army Corps of Engineers' permit. Number 185 SENATOR TAYLOR responded he has applied for a permit. CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced the committee will set aside HJR 27 until a quorum is reestablished. SRES - 2/27/95 HB 121 SALVAGE TIMBER SALES CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up HB 121 as the next order of business before the Senate Resources Committee and called the first witness. Number 176 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS, prime sponsor of HB 121, read the sponsor statement for HB 121 to the committee. CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted he does not intend to move HB 121 from committee at this time, and will take testimony for as long as possible today. The chairman called the next witness. Number 125 CARL PORTMAN, Resource Development Council (RDC), testifying from Anchorage, stated RDC supports harvesting damaged trees. Mr. Portman gives testimony favorable to HB 121. (Teleconference transmission is difficult to understand). Number 082 KATHY MILLER, testifying from Ketchikan, stated she is in favor of multiple use management of state lands. Ms. Miller gives testimony favorable to HB 121. She urges approval of HB 121. Number 055 DON GENTRY, General Manager, Atikon Forest Products, testifying from Ketchikan, stated he supports HB 121. Mr. Gentry gave a brief overview on forestry practices and emergency salvage operations. TAPE 95-17, SIDE A Number 001 MR. GENTRY continued his overview of forestry practices and emergency salvage operations. Mr. Gentry encourages support of HB 121. Number 045 CHRIS GATES, Executive Director, Alaska Forest Association, testifying from Ketchikan, stated the association supports HB 121. Mr. Gates asserted that since today's hearing began, about 500 trees have been lost to spruce bark beetle infestation. In 1994 about thirty-eight trees were lost every minute, on average. Alaska's infestation is the largest in the world. Mr. Gates thinks HJR 27 would simply allow harvesting of infested trees in a timely manner. Number 111 WINSLOW HOFFMAN, testifying from Homer, thinks Section 1 of HB 121 is the only part of the bill which is of any value. He suggested rewriting the bill so that it deals exclusively with salvage sales. He is a proponent of multiple use philosophy, and thinks spruce bark beetle infestations are part of the natural cycle of forests. SRES - 2/27/95 HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up HJR 27 once again and called the next witness. Number 184 JEFF WRALEY, testifying from Homer, is opposed to the idea we should be allowed to repeat the mistakes of the Lower Forty-Eight, simply because we have much of our wetlands undeveloped. Number 216 ED BAILEY, testifying from Homer, gives testimony unfavorable to HJR 27. Alaska is unique because most of its' wetlands have not been developed. We should learn from what has happened elsewhere. Number 246 SENATOR HALFORD made a motion to discharge HJR 27 from the Senate Resources Committee with individual recommendations under reconsideration. CHAIRMAN LEMAN hearing no objection, discharged HJR 27 from committee. SRES - 2/27/95 HB 121 SALVAGE TIMBER SALES CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought HB 121 up before the Senate Resources Committee once again. SENATOR TAYLOR made a motion to discharge HB 121 from committee with individual recommendations. CHAIRMAN LEMAN objected, since there were people who hadn't yet had a chance to testify on the bill. Senator Taylor did not have the votes to sustain his motion, so the motion was overruled. The chairman called the next witness. Number 263 JEFF WRALEY, testifying from Homer, stated he is opposed to HB 121 and urged legislators to oppose the bill too. He asserted it would benefit a special interest group: the logging industry. Mr. Wraley thinks HB 121 would hurt fisheries and tourism. Number 308 DORNE HAWXHURST, Cordova District Fishermen United (CDFU), testifying from Cordova, stated CDFU is strongly opposed to HB 121. She thinks it promotes timber harvesting as the state's highest resource development priority. CHAIRMAN LEMAN, after hearing complaints regarding how long people have had to wait to testify, informed listeners that committee members are still present and listening to testimony. He also informed listeners there is a full audience in the Juneau committee room, and some members of the Juneau audience have been waiting quite a long time to testify also. Number 331 RIKI OTT, United Fishermen of Alaska (UFA), testifying from Cordova, stated UFA is opposed to HB 121 because it allows timber harvesting priority over multiple-use on state lands. SENATOR FRANK asked Dr. Ott if she has a limited entry permit. DR. OTT responded she sold it last year. SENATOR FRANK confirmed that Dr. Ott recognizes limited entry permits are private property and can be bought and sold. Number 381 LOUIE BENCARDINO, testifying from Seward, stated he supports HB 121, but he feels there should be a value-added component in the bill. Several witnesses have mentioned they had to wait longer than expected to testify, and that some people have left teleconference sites without testifying because of the length of the hearing. CHAIRMAN LEMAN informed participants in the hearing that written testimony is always welcome, and can be faxed to 465-3810. RICK SMERIGLIO, testifying from Seward, stated he has lost trees on his property to beetles, but he is opposed to HB 121 because it exempts logging from AS 38.05.113 and 38.05.115. SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Smeriglio who he represents and by whom he is employed. MR. SMERIGLIO responded he is representing himself, and is a seasonal laborer who is currently unemployed. He added that many people in Seward had to leave the hearing due to the late hour, but in all fairness he must say that the majority of them favor HB 121. Number 475 DOUG HANSON, Inventory Forester, Tanana Chief's Conference (TCC), testifying from Fairbanks, stated TCC does not have a position on HB 121, but he would like to mention several concerns TCC has with the bill. Mr. Hanson suggested inserting wording which would specify "current insect infestation." He also thinks a flexible cap should be put on the volume or acreage allowed to be harvested. Number 497 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Hanson if TCC has imposed similar restrictions on its' lands. MR. HANSON stated TCC has not done that. TCC does not own timbered land. SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Hanson if TCC has recommended to Doyon that Doyon adopt similar restrictions. MR. HANSON responded TCC has not made a similar recommendation to Doyon. SENATOR TAYLOR would like to hear Doyon's response to TCC's recommendation. MR. HANSON replied, in the conditions he has seen, there are generally warning signs which occur before an infestation. But he does not know if that is enough to warrant a salvage sale. Number 526 DANINE HARBUT, Executive Assistant, Fairbanks Industrial Development Corporation (FIDC), testifying from Fairbanks, stated HB 121 gives an opportunity to apply proper forest management techniques. FIDC supports HB 121. Number 540 DUANE ANDERSON, testifying from Soldotna, asserted HB 121 has been crafted with specific users in mind. Mr. Anderson gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121. TAPE 95-17, SIDE B MR. ANDERSON continued with his testimony, and insisted that the problems the timber industry was having in Senator Taylor's district were dissimilar from the problems on the Kenai Peninsula. Number 574 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Anderson to call him the following day, and said he would be happy to talk to him about the issue. Number 565 INGRID PETERSON, Wild Tours, testifying from Soldotna, stated HB 121 is genocide for wildlife and Alaskans because wanton deforestation contributes to the ongoing planetary collapse. Ms. Peterson gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121. Number 542 ED DAVIS, Board Member, Alaska Wilderness, Recreation & Tourism Association, testifying from Valdez, thinks there are some loopholes in HB 121. He informed the committee that the number one complaint of tourists in the 1993 Alaska Visitor Association Survey was seeing clear-cuts. Mr. Davis stated he has faxed his comments to the committee. Number 505 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Davis who his employer is. MR. DAVIS replied he is employed by VECO. CHAIRMAN LEMAN informed listeners that since the committee has not been able to take testimony from everyone who wished to give it, the bill will be held until Wednesday's committee meeting. The chairman stated the committee will finish by taking testimony from Juneau participants. Number 495 CHUCK ACHBERGER, Executive Director, Juneau Chamber of Commerce, stated the chamber supports HB 121. Mr. Achberger read a written statement submitted to the committee. Number 480 WAYNE NICOLLS, Legislative Liaison, Alaska Society of American Foresters, stated the society has a national membership of 20,000. Mr. Nicolls relayed his forestry experience to the committee. The Alaska Society of American Foresters supports HB 121 under its' general position on forest health. Number 438 SENATOR TAYLOR informed the committee he has known Mr. Nicolls for some time, and he has a great deal of integrity. Though he and Mr. Nicolls have frequently not agreed on issues, one thing they have always agreed upon is that stewardship is a primary responsibility of ownership. Number 432 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Mr. Nicolls, "We heard in previous testimony from Mr. Anderson several comments. One dealt with the issue of spruce bark beetle damaged or killed trees--don't burn as fast as green. Do you have any comments regarding that statement?" MR. NICOLLS replied, "It depends on the season. But, generally when trees die, it's like tinder for the first few years after that. Eventually they'll fall down and rot, and they aren't a fire hazard anymore. Number 423 SENATOR FRANK asked Mr. Nicolls how involved his society is in timber issues. MR. NICOLLS responded the society has position papers on most issues in the state, but does not have the funds to support its' positions. The society is interested in all the forest resources, not just timber. SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Nicolls the primary cause of the extensive forest fires in the continental United States last summer. MR. NICOLLS answered the primary causes were long dry spells and areas that were protected for a long time. In some areas bug- killed timber was a contributor. Number 384 SARA HANNAN, Alaska Environmental Lobby, stated HB 121 would subsidize exporters of chip wood and urged the committee not to subsidize the timber industry. She also urged the committee to change to bill to encompass dead trees only. Ms. Hannan submitted a written statement to the committee. Number 317 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hannan if she knew the value that had been lost from the infestations. MS. HANNAN replied she does not know the size of the problem, but she thinks there are already tools in place to handle the problem. SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Boutin if he could testify as to the exact magnitude of the problem. Number 290 TOM BOUTIN, Director, Division of Forestry, Department of Natural Resources, stated he knows of logging operations that range in size from one or two-person operations on up to 500-person operations. Mr. Boutin also informed the committee that smaller operations cost the state more money to administer. He thinks an accurate estimate of the board feet lost to insect infestation is about one billion board feet. Number 253 CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced that there would be a presentation on CDQ's (Community Development Quotas) at Wednesday's committee meeting. CHAIRMAN LEMAN adjourned the Senate Resources Committee meeting at 6:30 p.m.