Legislature(1995 - 1996)

02/27/1995 03:36 PM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                   SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE                                  
                       February 27, 1995                                       
                           3:36 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Senator Loren Leman, Chairman                                                 
 Senator Steve Frank                                                           
 Senator Rick Halford                                                          
 Senator Robin Taylor                                                          
 Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                         
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT                                                     
                                                                               
 Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chairman                                            
     Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 27 am                                              
 Requesting the United States Congress to accommodate Alaska's                 
 wetlands circumstances in the federal Clean Water Act                         
 reauthorization by increasing statutory flexibility on wetlands use           
 in Alaska, and to recognize Alaska's unique and outstanding history           
 of wetlands conservation.                                                     
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 93                                                            
 "An Act relating to the disposal of state land along the Dalton               
 Highway; and providing for an effective date."                                
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 121 (title am)                                                 
 "An Act relating to salvage sales of state timber and to negotiated           
 sales of state timber in areas where there exists, or will exist in           
 two years, a high level of unemployment, underutilized                        
 manufacturing capacity, and an underutilized cut of timber, timber            
 that will lose substantial economic value due to insects, disease,            
 or fire, or timber to be cleared for non-forest uses."                        
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
 HJR 27 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
                                                                               
 SB 93 - No previous senate committee action.                                  
                                                                               
 HB 121 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
 Jeff Logan, Aide to Representative Green                                      
 State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-4931                            
   POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HJR 27                                 
                                                                               
 Ken Freeman                                                                   
 Resource Development Council                                                  
 121 W. Fireweed, No. 250 Anchorage, AK ¶276-0700                              
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports HJR 27                                         
                                                                               
 Tony Turrini                                                                  
 National Wildlife Federation                                                  
 750 W. 2nd St., Ste. 200, Anchorage, AK 99501¶258-4800                        
   POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 27                                       
                                                                               
 Julius Rockwell                                                               
 Anchorage Waterways Council                                                   
 2944 Emory St., Anchorage, AK 99501¶277-7150                                  
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27                                     
                                                                               
 Gershon Cohen, Executive Director                                             
 Alaska Clean Water Alliance                                                   
 P.O. Box 1441, Haines, AK ¶766-2296                                           
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27                                     
                                                                               
 Margaret Clabby                                                               
 7960 S. Tongass Hwy, Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-0800                             
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27                                     
                                                                               
 Troy Reinhart                                                                 
 Ketchikan Pulp Company                                                        
 P.O. Box 6600, Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-2151                                   
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports HJR 27                                         
                                                                               
 Terry Hermach                                                                 
 Prince William Sound Conservation Alliance                                    
 P.O. Box 2493, Valdez, AK 99686¶835-5473                                      
   POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 27                                       
                                                                               
 Sharon Hawkins                                                                
 P.O. Box 210654, Auke Bay, AK 99821¶789-7414                                  
   POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 27                    
                                                                               
 Molly Sherman                                                                 
 Alaska Environmental Lobby                                                    
 P.O. Box 22151, Juneau, AK 99802-2151¶463-3366                                
   POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 27                                       
                                                                               
 Malcolm Ford                                                                  
 145 E. 11th, Anchorage, AK 99501¶274-3621                                     
   POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 27                    
                                                                               
 Martha Levensaler                                                             
 750 W. 2nd, Ste. 200, Anchorage, AK 99501¶258-4800                            
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27                                     
                                                                               
 Senator Mike Miller                                                           
 State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-4976                            
   POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of SB 93                                  
                                                                               
 Ron Swanson, Director                                                         
 Division of Land, Department of Natural Resources                             
 3601 C St., Ste. 1122, Anchorage, AK 99503-5947¶762-2692                      
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports SB 93                                          
                                                                               
 Joe Levesque, Attorney                                                        
 North Slope Borough                                                           
 P.O. Box 69, Barrow, AK 99723¶852-0300                                        
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SB 93                                      
                                                                               
 Stanley Ned                                                                   
 Tanana Chief's Conference                                                     
 122 1st Ave., Fairbanks, AK 99701¶452-8251                                    
   POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to SB 93                                        
                                                                               
 Dave Lacey                                                                    
 P.O. Box 71372, Fairbanks, AK 99707¶474-8024                                  
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SB 93                                      
                                                                               
 Bill Robertson                                                                
 Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce                                                 
 709 2nd Ave., Fairbanks, AK 99701¶452-1105                                    
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports SB 93                                          
                                                                               
 Sara Hannan                                                                   
 Alaska Environmental Lobby                                                    
 P.O. Box 22151, Juneau, AK 99802-2151¶463-3366                                
   POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to SB 93 & HB 121                               
                                                                               
 Matt Kinney                                                                   
 P.O. Box 1540, Valdez, AK 99686                                               
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports HJR 27                                         
                                                                               
 Representative Bill Williams                                                  
 State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-3424                            
   POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 121                                 
                                                                               
 Carl Portman                                                                  
 Resource Development Council                                                  
 121 Fireweed, No. 250, Anchorage, AK 99503¶276-0700                           
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121                                         
                                                                               
 Kathy Miller                                                                  
 P.O. Box 9602, Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-9280                                   
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121                                         
                                                                               
 Donald Gentry                                                                 
 Atikon Forest Products                                                        
 51 Cube Cove, Juneau, AK 99850¶799-2259                                       
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121                                         
                                                                               
 Chris Gates                                                                   
 Alaska Forest Association                                                     
 111 Stedman St., Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-6114                                 
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121                                         
                                                                               
 Winslow Hoffman                                                               
 P.O. Box 1842, Homer, AK 99603                                                
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 121                                     
                                                                               
 Jeff Wraley                                                                   
 P.O. Box 844, Homer, AK 99603¶                                                
   POSITION STATEMENT: is opposed to HJR 27 & HB 121                           
                                                                               
 Ed Bailey                                                                     
 P.O. Box 2994, Homer, AK 99603¶235-6262                                       
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27                                     
                                                                               
 Dorne Hawxhurst                                                               
 Cordova District Fishermen United                                             
 P.O. Box 939, Cordova, AK 99574¶424-3447                                      
   POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HB 121                                       
                                                                               
 Dr. Riki Ott                                                                  
 United Fishermen of Alaska                                                    
 P.O. Box 1430, Cordova, AK 99574¶424-3915                                     
   POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HB 121                                       
                                                                               
 Louie Bencardino                                                              
 P.O. Box 2064, Seward, AK 99664¶224-5790                                      
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121                                         
                                                                               
 Rick Smeriglio                                                                
 P.O. Box 565, Seward, AK 99664¶288-3614                                       
   POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HB 121                                       
                                                                               
 Doug Hanson, Inventory Forester                                               
 Tanana Chief's Conference                                                     
 122 1st Ave., Fairbanks, AK 99701¶452-8251                                    
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 121                                     
                                                                               
 Danine Harbut, Executive Assistant                                            
 Fairbanks Industrial Development Corporation                                  
 515 7th Ave., Ste. 320, Fairbanks, AK ¶452-2185                               
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121                                         
                                                                               
 Duane Anderson                                                                
 37685 Conner Road, Soldotna, AK 99669¶262-7233                                
   POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121                    
                                                                               
 Ingrid Peterson                                                               
 P.O. Box 168, Anchor Point, AK 99556¶235-2800                                 
   POSITION STATEMENT:  gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121                   
                                                                               
 Ed Davis                                                                      
 Alaska Wilderness, Recreation & Tourism Association                           
 P.O. Box 3332, Valdez, AK 99686¶                                              
   POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121                    
                                                                               
 Chuck Achberger, Executive Director                                           
 Juneau Chamber of Commerce                                                    
 124 W. 5th St., Juneau, AK 99801¶586-6420                                     
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121                                         
                                                                               
 Wayne Nicolls, Legislative Liaison                                            
 Alaska Society of American Foresters                                          
 9723 Trappers Ln., Juneau, AK 99801¶789-5405                                  
   POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121                                         
                                                                               
 Tom Boutin, State Forester                                                    
 Div. of Forestry, Department of Natural Resources                             
 400 Willoughby Ave., 3rd Floor, Juneau, AK 99801-1796¶465-3379                
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 121                                     
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-16, SIDE A                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 001                                                                    
 SRES - 2/27/95                                                                
                                                                               
      HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT                        
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN LEMAN  announced that since the committee did not have a            
 quorum, the committee would just take testimony.  The committee               
 began taking testimony at 3:36 p.m.  The chairman stated the                  
 committee would first take testimony on HJR 27 and called the first           
 witness.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 020                                                                    
                                                                               
 JEFF LOGAN, Aide to Representative Green, prime sponsor of HJR 27,            
 read the sponsor statement for the resolution to the committee.               
                                                                               
 Number 040                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Logan if the policy on wetlands was a                
 letter from the Army Corps of Engineers, or if it was a law that              
 had been passed by congress.                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. LOGAN did not know if it is a law or not.                                 
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR thought most of the policy on wetlands was dictated            
 by an Army Corps of Engineers memo.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 060                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. LOGAN responded that is his understanding also.  S.49, which              
 the committee has a copy of, was introduced by Alaska's delegation            
 to congress to try to clarify language from the corps.  Section 3             
 is the amendment to the Federal Water Pollution Control Act.                  
 Representative Green has worked with the Alaska Wetlands Coalition            
 and the congressional delegation's staff; this resolution is                  
 something they requested.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 090                                                                    
                                                                               
 KEN FREEMAN, representing the Resource Development Council (RDC),             
 testifying from Anchorage, stated the RDC supports HJR 27.  Mr.               
 Freeman believes the situation in Alaska is different from that of            
 the rest of the country, and that most wetlands in Alaska are still           
 undeveloped.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 140                                                                    
                                                                               
 TONY TURRINI, representing the National Wildlife Federation,                  
 testifying from Anchorage, stated the federation is opposed to HJR
 27.  Mr. Turrini thinks the present Clean Water Act is adequate,              
 and that HJR 27 is unneccesary.  Mr. Turrini has submitted written            
 testimony to the committee which will be copied for the members.              
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Turrini if he thinks the passage of HJR 27           
 will have a negative economic impact on tourism and other                     
 businesses.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 203                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. TURRINI thinks if wetlands are destroyed, tourism will be                 
 negatively affected.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 220                                                                    
                                                                               
 JULIUS ROCKWELL, representing the Anchorage Waterways Council,                
 testifying from Anchorage, stated the council wants to maintain the           
 remaining wetlands in the Anchorage area.  He thinks the existing             
 legislation is adequate.  (Teleconference transmission is very                
 difficult to understand).                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 245                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Rockwell if he would be happier with New             
 England if over 50% of that area had been locked up and prevented             
 from being developed.                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. ROCKWELL does not think half the state should be locked up; he            
 wants to protect what is left in Anchorage.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 263                                                                    
                                                                               
 GERSHON COHEN, Executive Director, Alaska Clean Water Alliance,               
 testifying from Haines, does not think there is a problem with the            
 current process for handling development in wetlands.  He has not             
 seen any permits turned down by the Army Corps of Engineers.                  
 (Teleconference transmission is very bad, Mr. Cohen's testimony is            
 almost entirely unintelligible).                                              
                                                                               
 Number 280                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Cohen, if all permits are routinely                  
 approved, why the permitting process is necessary.                            
                                                                               
 MR. COHEN thinks the permitting process gives projects needed                 
 scrutiny.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 295                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN officially called the Senate Resources Committee to            
 order, since there is now a quorum.  Present are Senators Frank,              
 Hoffman, Taylor, and the chairman.                                            
                                                                               
 MARGARET CLABBY, testifying from Ketchikan, stated she has read the           
 Federal Clean Water Act and other documents relating to wetlands.             
 Ms. Clabby stated she supports the Clean Water Act, and does not              
 think Alaska should try to get out of it.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 338                                                                    
                                                                               
 TROY REINHART, Employee Relations & Public Affairs Manager,                   
 Ketchikan Pulp Corporation (KPC), testifying from Ketchikan, stated           
 KPC supports HJR 27 and its' goals.  KPC also supports the comments           
 RDC gave earlier in the hearing.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 345                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Reinhart if he thinks there is anything in           
 the resolution that would cause the whole wetlands law to be thrown           
 out if it is passed.                                                          
                                                                               
 MR. REINHART responded he does not think that would happen.  He               
 thinks it would send a message to congress that Alaska is                     
 different.                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted that Senator Halford has joined the committee            
 meeting.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 359                                                                    
 TERRY HERMACH, Prince William Sound Conservation Alliance,                    
 testifying from Valdez, stated he is opposed to HJR 27.  Mr.                  
 Hermach thinks Alaska should learn from the mistakes of the Lower             
 Forty-Eight.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 370                                                                    
                                                                               
 SHARON HAWKINS stated she participated in the round-table wetlands            
 discussion in which federal, state, and local governments also                
 participated.  This was about a six-month long ongoing process.               
 Ms. Hawkins informed the committee of the function of wetlands, and           
 stated Alaska supports summer staging and feeding grounds for over            
 95% of the world's seabirds.  She thinks HJR 27 should reflect the            
 fact that only a small percentage of Alaska's wetlands supports the           
 seabirds.  Ms. Hawkins stated Army Corps of Engineers' review of              
 permits is an important tool for wetlands development, because the            
 corps can add its' expertise to development.  Ms. Hawkins last                
 point is that wetlands within parklands are not necessarily                   
 protected from development.  She gave as an example placer mining             
 taking place in Denali National Park.                                         
                                                                               
 MS. HAWKINS stated that at the end of the round-table discussion in           
 which she participated, it was concluded that there is quite a bit            
 of flexibility in wetlands development.  She does not see a problem           
 with the current system and does not think the regulations should             
 be ignored.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 435                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Ms. Hawkins what part of HJR 27 indicates to             
 her there would not continue to be Army Corps of Engineers' review.           
                                                                               
 MS. HAWKINS replied it is her impression that exempting Alaska from           
 a "no net loss policy" would mean no review by the corps.  She                
 thinks that would mean no mitigation of private gain from public              
 lands would be required.                                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted that he and Ms. Hawkins have different                   
 understandings of what that language would do.  He does not think             
 the language would do what Ms. Hawkins thinks it would do.                    
                                                                               
 Number 460                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins who she represented in the round-            
 table process and how she was named to the round-table.                       
                                                                               
 MS. HAWKINS responded she was a citizen representative, and she               
 does not know how she was named to the round-table.  She was                  
 contacted by the Army Corps of Engineers and asked if she would               
 like to serve.  She was representing the environmental community,             
 but is not sure how she was chosen.                                           
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins, if 375,000 acres of birdfeeding             
 and nesting areas are essential, how that land was missed after               
 sixty or seventy million acres have already been classified as                
 wilderness.                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. HAWKINS replied that the birds require a coastal estuarian                
 setting.  There is very little of that type of habitat.  The large            
 amount of acreage to which Senator Taylor is referring may be                 
 wetlands, but it may not have any feeding area.                               
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins if it would be okay with her to              
 take 375,000 acres out of wilderness classification and add the               
 375,000 acres necessary for bird nesting and feeding.                         
                                                                               
 MS. HAWKINS responded that land classified as wilderness does not             
 preclude development.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 490                                                                    
                                                                               
 MOLLY SHERMAN, Alaska Environmental Lobby, stated the lobby is                
 opposed to HJR 27.  She read a written statement which was also               
 submitted to the committee.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 508                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR HALFORD asked Ms. Sherman in what communities wetlands had            
 been destroyed, adversely affecting wildlife, fishing, and hunting.           
                                                                               
 MS. SHERMAN responded that an earlier participant in the hearing,             
 representing the Anchorage Waterways Council, mentioned that                  
 Anchorage's wetlands have been greatly affected by development,               
 including the Potter Marsh flats.                                             
                                                                               
 SENATOR HALFORD stated that Potter Marsh is full of waterfowl, is             
 protected, and was created by the building of the road: it is the             
 impoundment.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 524                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked if any of the witnesses who testified in                 
 opposition to HJR 27 ever applied for a corps permit.                         
                                                                               
 MS. SHERMAN replied she can check with members of the Alaska                  
 Environmental Lobby.  She has worked in industry, and it is                   
 possible that companies she has worked for have applied for                   
 permits.                                                                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR commented it is possible that there is a great                 
 difference in life experiences between those people who have                  
 applied for a permit and those who have not.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 545                                                                    
 MALCOLM FORD, testifying from Anchorage, compared the environment             
 in Alaska with the environment in England.  (The teleconference               
 transmission is very bad, and Mr. Ford's testimony is                         
 unintelligible for the most part).                                            
                                                                               
 Number 568                                                                    
                                                                               
 MARTHA LEVENSALER, testifying from Anchorage, does not agree that             
 since so much of Alaska's land is locked up, it does not need to be           
 protected.  Public land is still open to development.                         
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-16, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 580                                                                    
                                                                               
 MARTHA LEVENSALER stated the permitting process is important, even            
 though most plans are approved, because the process frequently                
 changes development plans to help protect resources.                          
                                                                               
 Number 565                                                                    
                                                                               
 JULIUS ROCKWELL, of the Anchorage Waterways Council, testifying               
 from Anchorage added that members of the council have acquired                
 permits.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 550                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR made a motion to discharge HJR 27 from the Senate              
 Resources Committee with individual recommendations.                          
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, discharged HJR 27 from                  
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
 SRES - 2/27/95                                                                
                                                                               
         SB  93 DISPOSAL OF LAND ALONG THE DALTON HWY                        
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up SB 93 as the next order of business                 
 before the Senate Resources Committee.  The chairman called the               
 first witness.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 545                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER, prime sponsor of SB 93, read the sponsor statement            
 for the bill.  Senator Miller noted the existence of a proposed               
 committee substitute, which would add the proper legal descriptions           
 to the bill.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 529                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR HALFORD moved the adoption of the committee substitute for            
 SB 93.                                                                        
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, stated that the committee               
 substitute had been adopted.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 527                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR HALFORD asked Senator Miller where people who work in these           
 places would live, if the land will be non-residential.  Would a              
 person have to commute from Fairbanks?                                        
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER does not believe that would be the case; however,              
 Mr. Swanson could give a better answer to that question.                      
                                                                               
 Number 521                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR suggested amending SB 93 by taking out the word                
 "non."  Anyone who wanted to live out there could just buy a piece            
 of land from the state.                                                       
                                                                               
 SENATOR HOFFMAN asked Senator Miller how much land SB 93 would                
 encompass.                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER responded Mr. Swanson would be better prepared to              
 answer that question.                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN confirmed with Senator Miller that the changes in              
 the committee substitute were just legal description corrections.             
                                                                               
 Number 510                                                                    
                                                                               
 RON SWANSON, Director, Division of Land, Department of Natural                
 Resources (DNR), stated about 30,000 acres have been identified               
 within the development nodes; the state does not own all those                
 lands.  Before any activity could occur on those lands, we would              
 have to go through a land-use planning process.  At this point, the           
 main concern is being able to provide essential traveler services             
 along the Haul Road.                                                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Swanson what is meant by the term "non-              
 residential."                                                                 
                                                                               
 MR. SWANSON replied the intent is that the state not create a                 
 subdivision; then we would have to create the schools and the                 
 infrastructure.  Certainly people could live within that existing             
 facility.                                                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked what the responsibility of the State of Alaska           
 would be if there were eight or more children living in an area.              
                                                                               
 Number 492                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR FRANK stated the idea is not to sponsor a state land                  
 disposal for residential purposes.  Senator Frank asked Mr.                   
 Swanson's position on SB 93.                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. SWANSON answered, "Mr. Chairman, Senator Frank, it is, to                 
 provide those essential services."                                            
                                                                               
 Number 482                                                                    
                                                                               
 JOE LEVESQUE, Attorney North Slope Borough (NSB), testifying from             
 Barrow, commented the bill is moving forward very fast.  He stated            
 the Dalton Highway Coordinating Committee is proceeding in a                  
 prudent manner on the same subject.  NSB thinks SB 93 would be best           
 served if action on the bill was suspended until the findings of              
 the Dalton Highway Coordinating Committee are complete.  Mr.                  
 Levesque contends the state is unable to protect the resources and            
 the citizens along the Haul Road corridor.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 450                                                                    
                                                                               
 STANLEY NED, Tanana Chiefs Conference (TCC), testifying from                  
 Fairbanks, stated TCC is opposed to the Dalton Highway... because             
 of the affect on subsistence lifestyles.  (Teleconference                     
 transmission is very difficult to understand).  Mr. Ned stated TCC            
 is opposed to SB 93.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 435                                                                    
                                                                               
 DAVE LACEY, Yukon River Tours, testifying from Fairbanks, does not            
 see a need for SB 93.  He is also concerned that there has been no            
 input from local residents.  He asked why the bill is being                   
 sponsored by a legislator who is not from the affected area, and              
 thinks SB 93 is another unfunded mandate.  Mr. Lacey believes the             
 state needs another large wilderness attraction, and perhaps the              
 Haul Road could be turned into something like that.  He thinks SB
 93 would cause strip development and therefore harm the tourism               
 potential of the area.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 405                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Lacey if he believes his business will be            
 adversely affected by SB 93.                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. LACEY responded his business will be affected.                            
                                                                               
 Number 390                                                                    
                                                                               
 BILL ROBERTSON, Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce, testifying from                
 Fairbanks, stated he is speaking in favor of SB 93.  Mr. Robertson            
 asserted that development planning for the area affected by SB 93             
 has been occurring for many years, and that the type of development           
 being planned is node development, not strip development.                     
                                                                               
 Number 347                                                                    
 SARA HANNAN, Alaska Environmental Lobby, stated the lobby is                  
 opposed to SB 93.  Ms. Hannan submitted written testimony to the              
 committee.  Ms. Hannan asserted that if the state allows for                  
 private ownership of lands, there is an obligation to protect that            
 property: additional troopers, fish & wildlife protection officers,           
 and additional schools will be needed.  She also believes the more            
 private property there is in that area, the more difficult it will            
 be for the Trans-Alaska Gasline Corporation to build their gasline.           
                                                                               
 Number 319                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR FRANK emphasized his belief that there is a big distinction           
 between opening land for general residential purposes, which                  
 carries great fiscal ramifications, and opening nodes for provision           
 of essential services, which he does not think would have great               
 fiscal ramifications.                                                         
                                                                               
 Surprise is expressed by several committee members that the Alaska            
 Environmental Lobby is advising the legislature on budgetary                  
 matters, health & safety concerns, and gas-line development.                  
                                                                               
 MS. HANNAN responded that the lobby does spend a lot of time in               
 coordination with resource developers.  She does not think anyone             
 could find anything saying the Alaska Environmental Lobby is                  
 opposed to development of Alaska resources.  The lobby urges                  
 cautious, responsible development.  Ms. Hannan also believes the              
 State of Alaska has an obligation to educate Alaska's children; if            
 there are eight or more children, the state has an obligation to              
 provide a school and education services to those children.                    
                                                                               
 Number 294                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks Ms. Hannan if the Alaska Environmental Lobby is           
 opposed to the transfer of state land to private ownership.                   
                                                                               
 MS. HANNAN states the lobby is opposed to it in this instance,                
 largely because member groups of the lobby from that area are                 
 already working on the issue through the Dalton Highway Study, and            
 don't feel they have had a say in this process.  Opposition is                
 often mitigated by bringing people together to talk about the                 
 issue.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 278                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR FRANK confirmed with Ms. Hannan that the Alaska                       
 Environmental Lobby is not opposed to SB 93 for environmental                 
 reasons.                                                                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR HALFORD moved to discharge SB 93 from the Senate Resources            
 Committee with individual recommendations.                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR HOFFMAN objected to the motion.                                       
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN called for a vote on the motion.                               
                                                                               
 The motion passed.  Voting in favor of the motion were Senators               
 Leman, Frank, Halford, and Taylor.  Voting in opposition to the               
 motion was Senator Hoffman.  Senators Pearce and Lincoln were not             
 present.                                                                      
 SRES - 2/28/95                                                                
                                                                               
        HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT                        
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up HJR 27 under reconsideration.  The                  
 chairman called the first witness to testify.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 256                                                                    
                                                                               
 MATT KINNEY, testifying from Valdez, stated he supports HJR 27, but           
 suggested amending the bill.  On page 2, line 23, add the term,               
 "feasible and prudent."  He also thinks the definition of                     
 "wetlands" is too broad and should be further defined.  Mr. Kinney            
 asked Senator Taylor if he has ever applied for an Army Corps of              
 Engineers' permit.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 185                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR responded he has applied for a permit.                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced the committee will set aside HJR 27 until            
 a quorum is reestablished.                                                    
 SRES - 2/27/95                                                                
                                                                               
                 HB 121 SALVAGE TIMBER SALES                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up HB 121 as the next order of business                
 before the Senate Resources Committee and called the first witness.           
                                                                               
 Number 176                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS, prime sponsor of HB 121, read the sponsor            
 statement for HB 121 to the committee.                                        
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted he does not intend to move HB 121 from                   
 committee at this time, and will take testimony for as long as                
 possible today.  The chairman called the next witness.                        
                                                                               
 Number 125                                                                    
                                                                               
 CARL PORTMAN, Resource Development Council (RDC), testifying from             
 Anchorage, stated RDC supports harvesting damaged trees.  Mr.                 
 Portman gives testimony favorable to HB 121.  (Teleconference                 
 transmission is difficult to understand).                                     
                                                                               
 Number 082                                                                    
                                                                               
 KATHY MILLER, testifying from Ketchikan, stated she is in favor of            
 multiple use management of state lands.  Ms. Miller gives testimony           
 favorable to HB 121.  She urges approval of HB 121.                           
                                                                               
 Number 055                                                                    
                                                                               
 DON GENTRY, General Manager, Atikon Forest Products, testifying               
 from Ketchikan, stated he supports HB 121.  Mr. Gentry gave a brief           
 overview on forestry practices and emergency salvage operations.              
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-17, SIDE A                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. GENTRY continued his overview of forestry practices and                   
 emergency salvage operations.  Mr. Gentry encourages support of HB
 121.                                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 045                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHRIS GATES, Executive Director, Alaska Forest Association,                   
 testifying from Ketchikan, stated the association supports HB 121.            
 Mr. Gates asserted that since today's hearing began, about 500                
 trees have been lost to spruce bark beetle infestation.  In 1994              
 about thirty-eight trees were lost every minute, on average.                  
 Alaska's infestation is the largest in the world.  Mr. Gates thinks           
 HJR 27 would simply allow harvesting of infested trees in a timely            
 manner.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 111                                                                    
                                                                               
 WINSLOW HOFFMAN, testifying from Homer, thinks Section 1 of HB 121            
 is the only part of the bill which is of any value.  He suggested             
 rewriting the bill so that it deals exclusively with salvage sales.           
 He is a proponent of multiple use philosophy, and thinks spruce               
 bark beetle infestations are part of the natural cycle of forests.            
 SRES - 2/27/95                                                                
                                                                               
        HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT                        
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up HJR 27 once again and called the next               
 witness.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 184                                                                    
                                                                               
 JEFF WRALEY, testifying from Homer, is opposed to the idea we                 
 should be allowed to repeat the mistakes of the Lower Forty-Eight,            
 simply because we have much of our wetlands undeveloped.                      
                                                                               
 Number 216                                                                    
                                                                               
 ED BAILEY, testifying from Homer, gives testimony unfavorable to              
 HJR 27.  Alaska is unique because most of its' wetlands have not              
 been developed.  We should learn from what has happened elsewhere.            
                                                                               
 Number 246                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR HALFORD made a motion to discharge HJR 27 from the Senate             
 Resources Committee with individual recommendations under                     
 reconsideration.                                                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN hearing no objection, discharged HJR 27 from                   
 committee.                                                                    
 SRES - 2/27/95                                                                
                                                                               
                 HB 121 SALVAGE TIMBER SALES                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought HB 121 up before the Senate Resources                  
 Committee once again.                                                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR made a motion to discharge HB 121 from committee               
 with individual recommendations.                                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN objected, since there were people who hadn't yet had           
 a chance to testify on the bill.  Senator Taylor did not have the             
 votes to sustain his motion, so the motion was overruled. The                 
 chairman called the next witness.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 263                                                                    
                                                                               
 JEFF WRALEY, testifying from Homer, stated he is opposed to HB 121            
 and urged legislators to oppose the bill too.  He asserted it would           
 benefit a special interest group: the logging industry.  Mr. Wraley           
 thinks HB 121 would hurt fisheries and tourism.                               
                                                                               
 Number 308                                                                    
                                                                               
 DORNE HAWXHURST, Cordova District Fishermen United (CDFU),                    
 testifying from Cordova, stated CDFU is strongly opposed to HB 121.           
 She thinks it promotes timber harvesting as the state's highest               
 resource development priority.                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, after hearing complaints regarding how long people            
 have had to wait to testify, informed listeners that committee                
 members are still present and listening to testimony.  He also                
 informed listeners there is a full audience in the Juneau committee           
 room, and some members of the Juneau audience have been waiting               
 quite a long time to testify also.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 331                                                                    
                                                                               
 RIKI OTT, United Fishermen of Alaska (UFA), testifying from                   
 Cordova, stated UFA is opposed to HB 121 because it allows timber             
 harvesting priority over multiple-use on state lands.                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR FRANK asked Dr. Ott if she has a limited entry permit.                
                                                                               
 DR. OTT responded she sold it last year.                                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR FRANK confirmed that Dr. Ott recognizes limited entry                 
 permits are private property and can be bought and sold.                      
                                                                               
 Number 381                                                                    
                                                                               
 LOUIE BENCARDINO, testifying from Seward, stated he supports HB
 121, but he feels there should be a value-added component in the              
 bill.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Several witnesses have mentioned they had to wait longer than                 
 expected to testify, and that some people have left teleconference            
 sites without testifying because of the length of the hearing.                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN informed participants in the hearing that written              
 testimony is always welcome, and can be faxed to 465-3810.                    
                                                                               
 RICK SMERIGLIO, testifying from Seward, stated he has lost trees on           
 his property to beetles, but he is opposed to HB 121 because it               
 exempts logging from AS 38.05.113 and 38.05.115.                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Smeriglio who he represents and by whom he           
 is employed.                                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. SMERIGLIO responded he is representing himself, and is a                  
 seasonal laborer who is currently unemployed.  He added that many             
 people in Seward had to leave the hearing due to the late hour, but           
 in all fairness he must say that the majority of them favor HB 121.           
                                                                               
 Number 475                                                                    
                                                                               
 DOUG HANSON, Inventory Forester, Tanana Chief's Conference (TCC),             
 testifying from Fairbanks, stated TCC does not have a position on             
 HB 121, but he would like to mention several concerns TCC has with            
 the bill.  Mr. Hanson suggested inserting wording which would                 
 specify "current insect infestation."  He also thinks a flexible            
 cap should be put on the volume or acreage allowed to be harvested.           
                                                                               
 Number 497                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Hanson if TCC has imposed similar                    
 restrictions on its' lands.                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HANSON stated TCC has not done that.  TCC does not own timbered           
 land.                                                                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Hanson if TCC has recommended to Doyon               
 that Doyon adopt similar restrictions.                                        
                                                                               
 MR. HANSON responded TCC has not made a similar recommendation to             
 Doyon.                                                                        
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR would like to hear Doyon's response to TCC's                   
 recommendation.                                                               
                                                                               
 MR. HANSON replied, in the conditions he has seen, there are                  
 generally warning signs which occur before an infestation.  But he            
 does not know if that is enough to warrant a salvage sale.                    
                                                                               
 Number 526                                                                    
                                                                               
 DANINE HARBUT, Executive Assistant, Fairbanks Industrial                      
 Development Corporation (FIDC), testifying from Fairbanks, stated             
 HB 121 gives an opportunity to apply proper forest management                 
 techniques.  FIDC supports HB 121.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 540                                                                    
                                                                               
 DUANE ANDERSON, testifying from Soldotna, asserted HB 121 has been            
 crafted with specific users in mind.  Mr. Anderson gave testimony             
 unfavorable to HB 121.                                                        
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-17, SIDE B                                                            
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON continued with his testimony, and insisted that the              
 problems the timber industry was having in Senator Taylor's                   
 district were dissimilar from the problems on the Kenai Peninsula.            
                                                                               
 Number 574                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Anderson to call him the following day,              
 and said he would be happy to talk to him about the issue.                    
                                                                               
 Number 565                                                                    
                                                                               
 INGRID PETERSON, Wild Tours, testifying from Soldotna, stated HB
 121 is genocide for wildlife and Alaskans because wanton                      
 deforestation contributes to the ongoing planetary collapse.  Ms.             
 Peterson gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121.                                
                                                                               
 Number 542                                                                    
                                                                               
 ED DAVIS, Board Member, Alaska Wilderness, Recreation & Tourism               
 Association, testifying from Valdez, thinks there are some                    
 loopholes in HB 121.  He informed the committee that the number one           
 complaint of tourists in the 1993 Alaska Visitor Association Survey           
 was seeing clear-cuts.  Mr. Davis stated he has faxed his comments            
 to the committee.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 505                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Davis who his employer is.                           
                                                                               
 MR. DAVIS replied he is employed by VECO.                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN informed listeners that since the committee has not            
 been able to take testimony from everyone who wished to give it,              
 the bill will be held until Wednesday's committee meeting.  The               
 chairman stated the committee will finish by taking testimony from            
 Juneau participants.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 495                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHUCK ACHBERGER, Executive Director, Juneau Chamber of Commerce,              
 stated the chamber supports HB 121.  Mr. Achberger read a written             
 statement submitted to the committee.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 480                                                                    
                                                                               
 WAYNE NICOLLS, Legislative Liaison, Alaska Society of American                
 Foresters, stated the society has a national membership of 20,000.            
 Mr. Nicolls relayed his forestry experience to the committee.  The            
 Alaska Society of American Foresters supports HB 121 under its'               
 general position on forest health.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 438                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR informed the committee he has known Mr. Nicolls for            
 some time, and he has a great deal of integrity.  Though he and Mr.           
 Nicolls have frequently not agreed on issues, one thing they have             
 always agreed upon is that stewardship is a primary responsibility            
 of ownership.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 432                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Mr. Nicolls, "We heard in previous testimony             
 from Mr. Anderson several comments.  One dealt with the issue of              
 spruce bark beetle damaged or killed trees--don't burn as fast as             
 green.  Do you have any comments regarding that statement?"                   
                                                                               
 MR. NICOLLS replied, "It depends on the season.  But, generally               
 when trees die, it's like tinder for the first few years after                
 that.  Eventually they'll fall down and rot, and they aren't a fire           
 hazard anymore.                                                               
 Number 423                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR FRANK asked Mr. Nicolls how involved his society is in                
 timber issues.                                                                
                                                                               
 MR. NICOLLS responded the society has position papers on most                 
 issues in the state, but does not have the funds to support its'              
 positions.  The society is interested in all the forest resources,            
 not just timber.                                                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Nicolls the primary cause of the extensive           
 forest fires in the continental United States last summer.                    
                                                                               
 MR. NICOLLS answered the primary causes were long dry spells and              
 areas that were protected for a long time.  In some areas bug-                
 killed timber was a contributor.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 384                                                                    
                                                                               
 SARA HANNAN, Alaska Environmental Lobby, stated HB 121 would                  
 subsidize exporters of chip wood and urged the committee not to               
 subsidize the timber industry.  She also urged the committee to               
 change to bill to encompass dead trees only.  Ms. Hannan submitted            
 a written statement to the committee.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 317                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hannan if she knew the value that had been           
 lost from the infestations.                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. HANNAN replied she does not know the size of the problem, but             
 she thinks there are already tools in place to handle the problem.            
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Boutin if he could testify as to the exact           
 magnitude of the problem.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 290                                                                    
                                                                               
 TOM BOUTIN, Director, Division of Forestry, Department of Natural             
 Resources, stated he knows of logging operations that range in size           
 from one or two-person operations on up to 500-person operations.             
 Mr. Boutin also informed the committee that smaller operations cost           
 the state more money to administer.  He thinks an accurate estimate           
 of the board feet lost to insect infestation is about one billion             
 board feet.                                                                   
 Number 253                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced that there would be a presentation on                
 CDQ's (Community Development Quotas) at Wednesday's committee                 
 meeting.                                                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN adjourned the Senate Resources Committee meeting at            
 6:30 p.m.                                                                     
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects