Legislature(1995 - 1996)
04/09/1996 01:35 PM Senate L&C
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SENATE LABOR AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE
April 9, 1996
1:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Tim Kelly, Chairman
Senator John Torgerson, Vice Chairman
Senator Mike Miller
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Jim Duncan
Senator Judy Salo
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 478
"An Act allowing licensed real estate brokers, associate real
estate brokers, and real estate salespersons to prepare certain
documents; and providing for an effective date."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 319(FIN)
"An Act relating to the regulation of small loan and retail
installment transactions; and providing for an effective date."
SENATE BILL NO. 316
"An Act relating to the use of the terms `health' and `disability'
in the context of insurance coverage."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 359(JUD) am
"An Act relating to the appointment and confirmation process for
members of certain boards, commissions, and similar bodies;
relating to terms of certain appointees; and providing for an
effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
HB 478 - No previous Senate committee action.
HB 319 - No previous Senate committee action.
SB 316 - No previous Senate committee action.
HB 359 - No previous Senate committee action.
WITNESS REGISTER
Norman Rokeberg
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶(907)465-4968
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 478
Joan Sheppard
6000 Yukon Road, Anchorage, AK 99516¶(907)346-2017
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 478
Craig Johnson
218 Center Street, Kodiak, AK 99615¶(907)486-2000
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 478
Sherman Ernouf, Aide
Senate Labor & Commerce Committee
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶(907)465-3844
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 319
Marianne Burke, Director
Division of Insurance
Department of Commerce & Economic Development
P.O. Box 110805, Juneau, AK 99811-0805¶(907)465-2515
POSITION STATEMENT: supports SB 316
Representative Brian Porter
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶(907)465-4930
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 359
Jim Baldwin, Assistant Attorney General
Civil Division Juneau
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300, Juneau, AK 99811-0300¶(907)465-3600
POSITION STATEMENT:
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 96-25, SIDE A
HB 478 REALTORS MAY PREPARE CERTAIN LEGAL DOCS
Number 001
CHAIRMAN KELLY called the Senate Labor and Commerce Committee
meeting to order at 1:35 p.m. and brought up HB 478 as the first
order of business before the committee. He called the prime
sponsor to testify.
Number 015
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG, prime sponsor of HB 478, informed
the committee that he has been a licensed real estate broker in the
State of Alaska for twenty-five years. Therefore, he is intimately
aware of the circumstance surrounding the necessity of this
legislation. He made it clear that he has an inherent conflict of
interest, because he could benefit by the bill. However, the bill
was introduced at the request of the Alaska Real Estate
Association, the Alaska Association of Realtors, and some local
real estate boards. He thanked the committee for developing a
senate committee substitute removing the words and concepts of
deeds of trust and mortgages. That is the only difference between
the bill passed by the house and the scs. He recommended that
language be removed due to recent conversations he's had with the
Real Estate Bar, which thinks that the administration of documents
performed by a real estate professional does not specifically
include deeds of trust and mortgages, which are more typically
drafted by counsel at the request of title companies or clients of
title companies for the conveyance and alienation of real property
interests. Real estate brokers do not normally draft, or even fill
in the blanks, of deeds of trust and mortgages.
SENATOR KELLY asked if all that is being accomplished by removing
deeds of trust and mortgages then is to keep the status quo.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied that is correct.
SENATOR KELLY asked, since that language was deleted, what is left?
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded that what is left are the
documents normally prepared and used by real estate brokers,
associate brokers, and agents throughout the state. The reason for
the bill is that the Alaska Bar Association drafted a new bar rule,
33.3, that was transmitted last October to the Supreme Court. The
adoption of this new bar rule would redefine the scope of the
practice of law in the State of Alaska. He is concerned that the
new bar rule could affect members of the real estate industry. The
real estate industry has been concerned with this for the past five
years or so, because there is a feeling that there is no clear
demarcation between standard real estate practices and practices
conducted by members of the legal profession. This law is
necessary to keep from impeding the typical bargaining process. A
strict interpretation of the bar rule would require that all forms
of bargaining be approved by an attorney, which could mean that
even every counter-offer would have to be approved by an attorney.
The Alaska Bar Association denies this though, making HB 478
preemptory legislation.
Number 120
CHAIRMAN KELLY asked Representative Rokeberg if he is suggesting
the Alaska Bar Association's 2,000 members would try to stretch out
their ability to generate fees in the State of Alaska.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied he wouldn't suggest that; he would
be much more clear about that being probable. If this law is not
passed, real estate commerce could be impeded.
SENATOR KELLY commented there was a statement from the Alaska Bar
Association that indicated they weren't trying to do this.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated committee members have in their bill
packets a letter from the Alaska Bar Association counsel that is a
written response to information requested by Representative
Rokeberg. The letter indicates that sections 3-e and d of the bar
rule specifically exclude members of a profession from using legal
proceedings--documents that they prepare. But he draws committee
members' attention to section 3-d, which only addresses filling in
forms approved by the court system for use by non-attorneys, or
standardized forms prepared and reviewed by counsel. Every
document used by a real estate professional would have to be
approved on a pre-determined basis. He thinks that would even
include real estate leases. Real estate agents and brokers do not
practice law; that is not the intent here. All they are asking for
is to preserve the status quo and be able to perform their
profession with documentation that has customarily and
traditionally been used.
Number 205
CHAIRMAN KELLY asked if there were questions of the sponsor.
Hearing none, he called other witnesses to testify.
Number 210
JOAN SHEPPARD, realtor, testifying from Anchorage, stated she
advises clients to get legal advise. Realtors currently do not
practice law, they are just writing simple contracts negotiated
between buyers and sellers. If it was mandated that these
contracts be written by attorneys, it would be more expensive and
take more time to conduct real estate transactions. She agrees
with the deletion of language relating to deeds and mortgages from
the legislation. Ms. Sheppard supports passage of HB 478.
Number 230
CRAIG JOHNSON, realtor, testifying from Kodiak, stated he echoes
what has already been said. He hasn't heard any reasons for
opposing HB 478. The nation-wide trend has been to move away from
required attorney involvement. He asked that the committee release
HB 478.
CHAIRMAN KELLY asked if there are any questions. Hearing none, he
asked if there was a motion for the adoption of the Senate Labor &
Commerce Committee substitute.
Number 260
SENATOR TORGERSON made a motion to adopt the committee substitute
for HB 478.
CHAIRMAN KELLY, hearing no objection, stated the committee
substitute was adopted. He asked the pleasure of the committee.
SENATOR TORGERSON made a motion to discharge HB 478 from the Labor
& Commerce Committee with individual recommendations.
SENATOR KELLY, hearing no objections, stated HB 478 was discharged
from committee.
HB 319 SMALL LOANS & RETAIL INSTALLMENT SALES
Number 268
CHAIRMAN KELLY brought up HB 319 as the next order of business
before the Senate Labor & Commerce Committee. He asked the
committee aide to explain the difference between HB 319 and the
senate version of that bill.
SHERMAN ERNOUF, Committee Aide to the Senate Labor & Commerce
Committee, stated that the only difference between the two versions
is HB 319 has an immediate effective date.
CHAIRMAN KELLY asked if there were any questions about HB 319.
SENATOR TORGERSON made a motion to discharge HB 319 from the Senate
Labor & Commerce Committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN KELLY, hearing no objections, stated HB 319 was discharged
from committee.
SB 316 HEALTH INSURANCE NOMENCLATURE
Number 285
CHAIRMAN KELLY brought up SB 316 as the next order of business
before the Senate Labor & Commerce Committee. He called Ms. Burke
to testify.
MARIANNE BURKE, Director, Division of Insurance, Department of
Commerce & Economic Development, stated SB 316 is a housekeeping
bill. Throughout Alaska Statutes, the word "disability" is used in
an obsolete context relating to health insurance. We want to bring
Alaska Statutes into the present day usage of the term "health".
Alaska is one of the few states left that still uses the term
"disability" in statute to mean "health".
Number 305
SENATOR TORGERSON made a motion to discharge SB 316 from the Senate
Labor & Commerce Committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN KELLY, hearing no objection, stated SB 316 was discharged
from committee with individual recommendations.
HB 359 APPOINTMENT PROCESS FOR BDS & COMM'NS
Number 310
CHAIRMAN KELLY brought up HB 359 as the next order of business
before the Senate Labor & Commerce Committee. He called the prime
sponsor to testify.
Number 315
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER, prime sponsor of HB 359, stated HB 359
would specify that appointments made during the interim expire the
first day of the session and must be reappointed within 30 days of
the beginning of session. Any appointment made after the first 30
days of a session must be submitted within 5 days. Then the
legislature will confirm or reject that appointment. If the
appointment is rejected, the person may not be reappointed to the
same position. The requirement to reappoint during session
eliminates the carry-over appointments of the lame-duck
appointments. It moves almost all of the expiration dates of
boards and commissions to March 1, so that there is some
consistency. It also eliminates a loophole that could possibly
allow a governor to appoint someone during the interim, not present
them for appointment, recognizing that the appointment would
expire, and then reappointing the same person so as to retain
someone that the legislature never had the opportunity to confirm.
He thinks that the administration generally supports the bill.
CHAIRMAN KELLY commented he is still a little confused about the
March 1 extension date. How does it operate now? Are there
different expiration dates for various boards and commissions?
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER responded that as they came on board, they
had different dates. You will notice that HB 359 specifies "except
as otherwise provided". The only one being excluded is the Board
of Regents.
CHAIRMAN KELLY asked what extending to March 1 means. Does that
mean the legislature then has the opportunity to look at new
appointees every year?
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER replied that is why it's during session. The
debate is just about where in the session you would want to draw
that line.
CHAIRMAN KELLY asked if there were questions for Representative
Porter. Hearing none, he called Mr. Baldwin to testify.
Number 360
JIM BALDWIN, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law,
informed the committee that the Department of Law has been working
with Representative Porter on HB 359, and generally, he has
accommodated the department's concerns. There is one remaining
area of concern regarding how the bill would work: all of an
incoming governor's interim appointments would expire on the first
day of the session. The department thinks that would be an
administrative burden on a new governor to have to respond that
rapidly when there is so much else going on with the transition.
He suggested specifying that the appointments would expire on the
date that the name is submitted. That would give the governor time
to handle the transition and would also keep vacancies from
occurring. He stated that the change could occur, if the committee
so desires, to the language on page 5, line 29. Words could be
inserted to the effect that the term would end on the day during
the next regular session upon which the appointment is presented.
CHAIRMAN KELLY asked if they would lock in how long the governor
would have to present those appointments.
MR. BALDWIN thinks the preceding section of statute specifies 30
days; that is existing law. It is on page 4 of HB 359.
CHAIRMAN KELLY noted that would only be a factor every four years,
and perhaps eight years.
MR. BALDWIN brought to the committee's attention that there are
amendments being made in other sections of the bill to boards or
commissions or bodies that, by the executive branch's
interpretation, do not require confirmation. But for some reason
or other the legislature has seen fit to, by statute, make these
boards or commissions subject to confirmation.
CHAIRMAN KELLY asked if Mr. Baldwin if there was a problem with
specifying the first day of session. You could essentially have no
board for 30 days. If everybody's term were to end, then you would
have a board that could not take action for 30 days. The chairman
asked if he was correct in assuming that might be a possibility.
MR. BALDWIN replied that is a possibility under the way the bill is
currently written.
Number 410
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER thinks that would exist in those situations
where a governor would make the lame-duck appointments. What he is
trying to do with HB 359 is take away the motivation to do that.
If it was worded so that it was clear that the next governor's
appointments had to be made within the confines of the new language
of the bill, he would not have great objection to it.
Number 435
CHAIRMAN KELLY thinks staff can work out that problem. You could
just specify every fourth year, just as we do for the start of
legislative sessions. He asked staff to work out that problem
between the administration and the sponsor, and the bill will be
brought up again first thing on Thursday. He asked Mr. Baldwin if
the governor will sign the bill with that correction, not
withstanding the other objections.
MR. BALDWIN responded he will have to reply to that question on
Thursday. There has been a meeting with the governor about the
bill.
CHAIRMAN KELLY, hearing no other comments, adjourned the Senate
Labor & Commerce Committee meeting at 2:05 p.m.
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