Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/07/1996 02:05 PM L&C
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE LABOR AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE March 7, 1996 2:05 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Tim Kelly, Chairman Senator John Torgerson, Vice Chairman Senator Mike Miller MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Jim Duncan Senator Judy Salo COMMITTEE CALENDAR CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 382(STA) "An Act relating to the Board of Dispensing Opticians; and providing for an effective date." SENATE BILL NO. 261 "An Act relating to the release of employment security records; relating to an injunction or an employer's security for delinquent unemployment insurance contributions; extending time periods for redeterminations and appeals for unemployment insurance; relating to the overpayment or the redetermination of unemployment insurance benefits; relating to availability for work, seeking work, and the calculation of wages for unemployment insurance purposes; relating to voluntary federal tax withholding from unemployment insurance benefits; relating to the binding effect of unemployment compensation decisions; relating to the definition of `waiting week' for employment security purposes; and providing for an effective date." SENATE BILL NO. 186 "An Act relating to partnerships; amending Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure 20 and 24; and providing for an effective date." SENATE BILL NO. 253 "An Act relating to insurance coverage for costs of prostate cancer detection." PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION HB 382 - See Labor and Commerce minutes dated 2/29/96. SB 261 - See Labor and Commerce minutes dated 2/13/96 and 2/22/96. SB 186 - See Labor and Commerce minutes dated 2/8/96 and 2/29/96. SB 253 - No previous senate committee minutes. WITNESS REGISTER Dwight Perkins, Special Assistant to the Commissioner Department of Labor P.O. Box 21149 Juneau, AK 99811-1149¶ POSITION STATEMENT: Representing governor-prime sponsor of SB 261. Kristine Pellet, Student Intern Senator Jim Duncan State Capitol Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶ POSITION STATEMENT: Prime sponsor of SB 253. Gordon Evans, Lobbyist Health Insurance Association of America 318 4th St. Juneau, AK 99801¶ POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed to SB 253. Carol Edwards, RN 3998 Diane Juneau, AK 99801¶ POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 253. Bill Chisholm Division of Insurance Dept. of Commerce & Economic Development P.O. Box 110800 Juneau, AK 99801 ¶ POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 253. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 96-17, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN KELLY called the Senate Labor and Commerce Committee meeting to order at 2:05 p.m. and noted that it was Ted Kelly's first birthday. HB 382 BOARD OF DISPENSING OPTICIANS CHAIRMAN KELLY brought up HB 382 as the first order of business before the Senate Labor & Commerce Committee. He stated he knew of no opposition to the bill. SENATOR MILLER moved to discharge HB 382 from the Senate Labor & Commerce Committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SB 261 UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION CHAIRMAN KELLY brought up SB 261 as the next order of business before the Senate Labor & Commerce Committee. He said that SB 261 is basically a housekeeping bill. DWIGHT PERKINS, Special Assistant to the Commissioner, Department of Labor, stated there was a question regarding Section 13 of the bill which has to do with the "equity and good conscience" standard was and there was no fault of the claimant that these were to happen. The language on page 8,line 3, helps in determining that this is good conscience on behalf of the claimant. CHAIRMAN KELLY asked if this is mainly trying to recover money that is a mistake of the division. MR. PERKINS replied that is correct, when there is no fault on behalf of the claimant. CHAIRMAN KELLY asked what would happen if it was the claimant's fault. MR. PERKINS responded the division would go after it. They have a track record of recovering 90% percent of the funds that are not fraudulent claims. Number 086 SENATOR MILLER made a motion to discharge SB 261 from the Senate Labor & Commerce Committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SB 186 LIMITED LIABILITY PARTNERSHIPS CHAIRMAN KELLY stated SB 186 would be held so that members could review the recently drafted committee substitute. SB 253 INSURANCE FOR PROSTATE CANCER TESTING CHAIRMAN KELLY brought up SB 253 as the next order of business before the Senate Labor & Commerce Committee. KRISTINE PELLET, Student Intern for Senator Duncan, prime sponsor of SB 253, read the sponsor's statement, which contained information on prostate cancer and how one is tested for the disease. Currently, insurance companies are not required by Alaska Law to cover prostate cancer tests; SB 253 would require coverage for testing on annual physical examinations, when appropriate. SENATOR DUNCAN said it was unfair for an individual to have to pay for a simple test that could alter his life with serious medical and personal ramifications. Four states already require insurance companies to cover these tests. She urged support for insurance coverage in Alaska of the PSA (prostate specific antigen) test, if deemed necessary by a physician. SENATOR DUNCAN offered an amendment for regarding discussions with the American Cancer Society. They felt SB 253, as it stands, is too broad. CHAIRMAN KELLY asked if the American Cancer Society has data that shows that African-Americans are at higher risk for prostate cancer. MS. PELLET responded that was correct. CHAIRMAN KELLY thought "a family history of prostate cancer" is pretty broad. He thinks "family history" should be clarified to be "immediate family history". He asked if there are further questions. Hearing none, he asked Ms. Pellet to remain in attendance. The chairman called Mr. Evans to testify. Number 175 GORDON EVANS, Lobbyist for the Health Insurance Association of America, stated that HIAA opposes any mandated benefits; a mandated offering would be a different thing. He stated that since he is a male, he has nothing else to say. CHAIRMAN KELLY asked what the difference is between mandated benefits and mandated offerings. MR. EVANS responded that mandated benefits are when an insurance company must cover something. Mandated offering is when an insurance company gives a person buying an insurance policy the option of paying a little extra to have that coverage in the policy. SENATOR MILLER asked how SB 253 would affect premium charges. MR. EVANS replied it would be considered in the underwriting process. Any mandated benefit usually leads to some sort of an increase in premiums. He noted that he is covered by state health insurance through his wife, and they have always paid for PSA tests for him. So he does not know why they say some companies aren't covering it now. CHAIRMAN KELLY asked if there is anyone who disagrees that the state health insurance policy pays mandated benefits. Number 207 CAROL EDWARDS, RN and nationally certified oncology nurse, stated her husband was turned down for his PSA screening. She believes that men deserve the same rights in PSA testing that women receive in mammogram testing. Mandating insurance companies to pay for mammogram screening is now common throughout the United States. She believes that mandating payment by insurance companies for PSA screening will follow. Prostate cancer is the most commonly occurring cancer in men in the United States: 41% of all cancers in men are prostate cancers. A lot of men die with prostate cancer, and not of it. If a man lives to be 90 years old, he will probably have prostate cancer, although it will probably not be the cause of death. Number 244 Ms. Edwards stated that the younger a man is, the more aggressive prostate cancer will be, and the more likely that it will be the cause of death. Early detection of prostate cancer is the best chance for a cure. Ms. Edwards stated that unfortunately, she mostly sees patients with cancer in more advanced stages. Ms. Edwards stated that Aetna refused to pay for a PSA test for her husband, even though his father died of prostate cancer. He has a State of Alaska health insurance policy, and he carries the rider for the annual physical. In a letter, Aetna stated they would not pay for the PSA test, even though he was considered high risk, because it was a questionable test. Ms. Edwards stated it is a debatable test. CHAIRMAN KELLY asked if that test that will be mandated by SB 253. MS. EDWARDS responded it is. CHAIRMAN KELLY asked if the state will, at this time, pay for prostate examinations. MS. EDWARDS replied they will pay for a digital rectal examination. They will pay for a cardiac risk profile: her husband has no risk of cardiac disease, but they will pay for that test. He does have a risk of prostate cancer, but they will not pay for a PSA test. They won't pay for this one particular test, which at Bartlett Memorial Hospital costs between $60.00 - $70.00. She stated that her family is personally willing to pay for that, because they are capable of doing so. But it is the individual who is less knowledgeable and would not know the value of the test who might not be so likely to pay out of pocket. Ms. Edwards stated that in the oncology world there is a phrase called "oncology family syndrome". This phrase means that if there are three generations of cancer in your family, and it does not have to be the same type of cancer, then you are considered to be at high risk for having cancer. CHAIRMAN KELLY asked how family is defined. MS. EDWARDS thinks it goes back through generations. She knows that mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother are considered to be in those studies. CHAIRMAN KELLY asked Ms. Edwards what word is used to describe family relationship and degrees of family relationships. MS. EDWARDS stated she would be willing to find that information for the committee. CHAIRMAN KELLY stated the committee would appreciate that. He asked if there were any questions. Hearing none, he asked if anyone knew the word used to define that whole phrase. MS. EDWARDS asked if the chairman was thinking of "immediate family". CHAIRMAN KELLY responded that is not the word. He came across it when he was working for the Nevada Legislature. He called Mr. Chisholm to testify. Number 299 BILL CHISHOLM stated he works in the claims field for the State of Alaska, and is covered by Aetna for almost everything. He stated he spends a great deal of time reviewing insurance provisions and supports SB 253. Mr. Chisholm stated that in 1991 during his annual physical, his physician recommended he take the exam. He did, and Aetna paid for it. Aetna also paid for the PSA exam for his 1992 physical. In 1993, Aetna would not pay for the test, and they have not paid for it since then. When he called Aetna to inquire why they did not pay for the test, he was told that the test was not an acceptable diagnostic tool. He believes that a test of this type is probably more accurate than the examination which involves a physician facing a somewhat squirming subject and trying to determine size and hardness or softness of a particular part of the body. In looking at the 1994 denial, it states that, "Services must be broadly accepted, professionally as effective, appropriate and essential treatment of disease or injury. Based on that, this is not covered." Mr. Chisholm pointed out that whether it's a PSA screening or a digital rectal exam, they are both for detection, not for treatment. He believes that men should be entitled to have the best screening possible for a potential disease of this type. CHAIRMAN KELLY asked Dr. Palmer to testify. Number 348 DR. PALMER, a Juneau physician, explained family genetics are such that certain problems can skip generations in people who are genetically interconnected (not family members by marriage). The fact that a first degree relative (a parent or sibling) does not have a specific disease does not dilute the fact that family relationships where other members of the bloodline have had the disease predisposes one to the disease. He believes the best medical procedures are preventive, especially to help patients stop smoking. Regarding the PSA, it will detect malignancy and is more specific than mammography. The positive predictive value of mammography is 20 percent, and around 35 to 50 percent with PSA. SENATOR KELLY asked Janet Parker from the Division of Retirement and Benefits why a zero fiscal note was submitted. MS. PARKER replied the state's major medical plan only pays for the PSA test if objective evidence exists throughout patient history and after a digital rectal exam. The PSA test is not automatically paid for as part of a routine physical exam. The state's plan does not cover a routine physical exam unless employees select SBS Option 1. The employee pays the premium for that option, and although there will be an increase in the cost to the state, most of the cost will be paid by the employee. The premium for Option 1 is expected to increase in future years. SENATOR KELLY questioned whether Option 1 coverage includes a PSA test. MS. PARKER answered it will if SB 253 passes, it does not now. SENATOR KELLY asked if employees who do not choose Option 1 are entitled to a full physical exam every year. MS. PARKER stated they are not, but a male employee would still be able to go in and have a PSA test without a full physical exam. SENATOR KELLY asked what the added cost to the state is. MS. PARKER assumed most people will not have the test done. SENATOR KELLY asked why she would make that assumption if the test was free. MS. PARKER responded the current plan pays for a pap smear test for a woman, but does not cover the office visit, therefore the employee still has to pay some cost. SENATOR KELLY commented he is surprised by the zero fiscal note. PHILLIP GRAY, a Juneau resident, stated he was diagnosed with prostate cancer in 1992, through a PSA test paid by Aetna. He is not required to have a PSA blood test every three months which is important to his treatment. He expressed his support for SB 253. He discussed his treatment for prostate cancer since 1992. Aetna has refused to pay for any of the treatment including blood tests, x-rays, bone scans, a second opinion or prescribed medicines, even though these things are covered in the manual. He noted Washington State has recently passed a law requiring insurance payment to any licensed practitioner. His last concern was that Juneau has no cancer registry which could be computerized and analyzed to pinpoint correlations. SENATOR KELLY asked Ms. Parker if she could comment on Mr. Gray's lack of coverage. MS. PARKER could not do so without looking at the specifics of his case, but offered to review his file. She noted that naturopathic services are generally not covered by insurance companies. SENATOR KELLY repeated his concern with the zero fiscal note, as it is unlikely the state could mandate another medical test without associated costs. He announced SB 253 would be held in committee until next week. SB 216 OMNIBUS STATE FEES & COST ASSESSMENTS NANCY SLAGLE, Director of the Division of Budget Review, reported SB 216 reflects a recommendation made by the Long Range Financial Planning (LRFP) Commission to generate revenue by increasing user fees. The LRFP projected the increase in fees would generate approximately $3 million for FY 97. The Governor's goal was to generate $8 million to close the fiscal gap. Some of the user fee increases, which did not require statutory revision, are included in the Governor's budget submission, however SB 216 contains those fees that do require statutory revision. She offered to provide committee members with a spread sheet that identifies the agencies involved and dollar amounts. She gave the following sectional analysis of the bill. Section 1 relates to the Real Estate Surety Fund in the Department of Commerce and Economic Development. It allows the Department to charge for hearing costs associated with real estate surety cases. The estimated revenue is $3,000. Section 2 deals with the Postsecondary Education Commission. SENATOR KELLY asked if that was dealt with in a bill that passed previously. MS. SLAGLE did not believe so, and explained the change would allow the Commission to establish fees for applications to operate or for agents' permits related to the operation of postsecondary institutions. The estimated revenue is $62,500. SENATOR KELLY presumed that section is liable to be incorporated into Senator Green's bill. Section 3 would allow the Human Rights Commission to charge fees for education and training services and materials, and information provided to the public, specifically in the area of training for the prevention of discrimination and sexual harassment and disability issues. Section 4 provides fees to cover costs for self-insured companies to pay for workers' compensation claims processed in the Department of Labor. SENATOR KELLY asked for more information. PAUL GRASSE, Director of the Division of Workers' Compensation, explained the state does not process claims per se, for workers' compensation, except for its own, but keeps a database of all workers' compensation cases, administers the program, and provides resolution for disputes. Additionally it administers the second injury fund and the self insurance program. SENATOR KELLY questioned how the Division calculated four percent as an equitable figure, and whether the amount is four percent of gross salary. MR. GRASSE answered it is 4 percent of all workers' compensation costs. The amount closely approximates the premium tax that is charged to employers who buy workers' compensation policies. If a company is not large enough to be able to pay claims itself, it is required to purchase workers' compensation and an insurance policy. There is a premium tax assessed to that at 2.7 percent. The 4 percent is based on just the workers compensation costs paid; medical costs, time-loss benefits; permanent partial impairment, etc. SENATOR KELLY asked what that total would be for Carr-Gottstein's. MR. GRASSE replied the amount changes annually. SENATOR KELLY questioned the figure of $671,000. MR. GRASSE answered that figure is based on the 1994 cost, and is 4 percent of what self insured companies paid. SENATOR KELLY asked if Mr. Grasse's position is that the 4 percent replaces the premium tax that all non-self insured's pay. MR. GRASSE stated that amount is actually a little less than the premium tax. SENATOR KELLY inquired how that could be so if it is based on 4 percent rather than 2.7 percent. MR. GRASSE explained the premium covers the entire cost of the policy plus the insurance company's profit which is a larger sum than that which it paid out on claims. Number 572 SENATOR TORGERSON asked if municipalities would be covered by this section. MR. GRASSE noted they would, if self-insured. SENATOR TORGERSON asked for the breakdown between private and public corporations and whether the increase in revenue will cover program operating costs. MR. GRASSE referred to a breakdown he provided to committee members. SENATOR KELLY referred to the University of Alaska, listed in the breakdown. It is a self insured workers' compensation carrier who paid out $955,000 in costs. He asked if the 4 percent would be based on those payments. MR. GRASSE agreed, and noted the amount would be $38,217. SENATOR KELLY asked whether the University of Alaska would deposit the money in the general fund. MR. GRASSE explained the money would come to his division, and then be deposited into the state treasury. SENATOR KELLY asked if the division does $671,000 worth of work for the 28 self insured entities. MR. GRASSE replied affirmatively and added the system is very efficient. He reminded members that workers compensation is a form of tort reform and keeps cases out of the courts, is based on a no-fault philosophy, is predictable, and benefits both employees and employers. He added self-insured entities save money because they do not have to buy an insurance policy. SENATOR KELLY asked if anyone else was concerned that this policy transfers pots of money, and will entail more paperwork. SENATOR TORGERSON agreed. SENATOR KELLY stated one position the committee might take is to review outfits that self insure and do not pay a premium tax, but to extend that to the University of Alaska is different. SENATOR TORGERSON commented the seven municipalities, University, and school districts will contribute $200,000. MR. GRASSE clarified that the amount of paperwork would not increase because self insurers already have to provide the required information. MS. SLAGLE continued with the sectional analysis. Section 5 increases business license fees in the Department of Commerce and Economic Development. The increase would be from $25 per year to $75 every two years and would generate an additional $841,300 to the unrestricted general fund. SENATOR KELLY asked about the Buy Alaska program. SHERMAN ERNOUF, committee staff, answered Buy Alaska approached the committee and wanted to direct an increase in business license fees. SENATOR KELLY clarified they wanted a surcharge on business licenses of $3 to be appropriated to the Buy Alaska program. CATHERINE REARDON, Director of the Division of Occupational Licensing in the Department of Commerce, commented the business license fee has not increased since Statehood. For efficiency purposes, business licenses are sold for a two-year time period, and cost $50. There will be no administrative costs associated with this increase, as the same number of checks will be processed. SENATOR KELLY asked if this section will take effect in January, 1997. MS. REARDON replied that is correct, and although she would prefer the increase begin at the start of the fiscal year, business licenses expire December 31. SENATOR TORGERSON asked if the Department could save on administrative costs by going to a four year license. MS. REARDON stated it would, but new business owners might not want to pay for four years, and other businesses might not plan to operate for that long. MS. SLAGLE continued with the sectional analysis. Section 6 allows the Division of Governmental Coordination to charge fees for federal consistency determinations. SENATOR KELLY asked what the Division of Governmental Coordination does. MS. SLAGLE explained it is a division within the Office of Management and Budget that deals with the Coastal Zone Management Program and other consistency review areas. DIANE MAYER, Director of the Division of Governmental Coordination, stated the Division administers the state's coastal management program, oversees the state's involvement in the implementation of ANILCA, and coordinates state agency reviews of environmental impact statements put out by federal agencies. Its main function is to act as a coordinator between the state's resource agencies when development projects are proposed that require action or review by more than one state resource agency. This allows for a unified state position on development projects, and provides for the development of permit stipulations that allow for a consistent project across the board. Section 6 does not mandate that fees be charged, but gives the division the authority to write regulations to accept fees for services rendered. The intent is not to charge for one-time services, but for ongoing projects. SENATOR KELLY asked if the new fees would be in addition to what developers are already required to pay. MS. MAYER responded Section 6 would enable the division to write regulations, and the industry is better off with more up-front involvement in project design to comply with permit regulations, rather than after the fact review. This would allow the division to work with the industry to accept fees to get people scheduled early on in the larger projects, and to get agency personnel involved in preliminary designs and environmental impact statements to streamline the process. If an industry was interested in getting those services, the division would have the ability to enter an agreement to direct staff time to that project. SENATOR KELLY asked if they would be buying their way to the front of the line. MS. MAYER stated it would enable the division to give priority treatment, but more so to provide the type of services that would help the project evolve in an efficient way. It would save industry the cost of having to redesign to fit permit requirements. SENATOR TORGERSON questioned whether the division charges any fees now. MS. MAYER said the division is unable to accept money for anything. She added that Section 6 would also allow the division to charge for copies. SENATOR TORGERSON asked what the $32,000 figure is based on. MS. MAYER responded the division has discussed this concept with industry people. It takes into account a time period to work with industry to draft regulations, and then in the next couple of years one or two applicants might be willing to try it. MS. SLAGLE explained Section 7 broadens the ability of the Department of Military and Veteran Affairs to charge fees for providing training. Currently, it is only able to charge for training in relation to emergency situations dealing with hazardous substances. Section 7 would allow the Department to charge for all types of training for emergency responses. SENATOR KELLY asked who the Department currently charges. MS. SLAGLE responded local governments, and maybe some private companies. SENATOR KELLY questioned whether those costs are already being paid for out of the spill fund. MS. SLAGLE noted that training is specific to oil spills. Other emergency response training covers earthquakes, floods and a wide variety of disasters the department may be involved in. SENATOR KELLY believed that making this change to generate $4000 to be questionable. MS. SLAGLE answered the Department of Military and Veterans Affairs estimated that amount based on costs specific to that training, such as room rentals and transportation. SENATOR KELLY asked if the money would go directly to the Department. MS. SLAGLE stated it would. MS. SLAGLE commented the last section allows the Department of Environmental Conservation to establish fees by regulation for the use of pesticides and broadcast chemicals, and for reviewing subdivision plans for sewage waste disposal and treatment facilities. JANICE ADAIR, Department of Environmental Conservation, explained the authority for pesticide registration would include chemicals or biological substances used to control pests, such as rodents, mosquitos, or weeds. Through registration, DEC would be able to monitor what pesticides are being sold in the state. This would assist DEC with granting monitoring waivers for public drinking water systems. So far those waivers have saved the public water systems, collectively, over $2 million per year. DEC would like to issue more waivers. DEC would also like to work with OSHA when it does safety inspections and needs information on a pesticide that might be used in a workplace. Alaska is the only state that does not charge a registration fee. In other states this fee pays for the costs of the pesticide program. The fee would be paid by the pesticide manufacturer. SENATOR MILLER noted initially it may be paid by the manufacturer, but the consumer will pay for it in the end in increased prices. SENATOR KELLY asked how much will be generated from the pesticide registration program. MS. ADAIR estimated $100,000 and $220,000 from subdivision review plans. SENATOR KELLY questioned who currently does subdivision plan review. MS. ADAIR replied DEC does, but is unable to charge. SENATOR KELLY asked if review is necessary for projects in boroughs without planning and zoning powers. MS. ADAIR answered yes, and believed Anchorage and Valdez are the only two municipalities that do their own reviews. SENATOR TORGERSON noted an engineer usually designs the project and then it is rubber stamped by DEC. Some argue that if an engineer does the design, state review is unnecessary. He added that any septic system being installed goes through the same process. MS. ADAIR advised that DEC has been established as the health authority for the State of Alaska, except in those areas where the local government has adopted health powers. The reason for DEC's review of subdivision plans or a sewage disposal system on the lot (as opposed to a community system), is to ensure that the system will work and not contaminate drinking water supplies. She noted the controversy surrounding this particular program within DEC, however reported that at one time DEC stopped doing on-lot reviews, and within the first day, banks stopped granting loans in the Mat- Su Borough. The Bankers' Association informed DEC it needed a health authority to assure the system will work, because it does not want to be stuck with a piece of property with inadequate sewage treatment or a contaminated drinking water source. SENATOR KELLY did not feel this section is necessary for DEC to continue to do reviews. MS. ADAIR agreed, but stated the ability to charge fees would offset the general funds that go into it. SENATOR KELLY asked if the developer of the lot would pay for the plan review. MS. ADAIR answered yes. SENATOR KELLY questioned whether fees would be charged on individual homesites. MS. ADAIR explained DEC already has the authority to charge fees for individual homesite plan review, but not for subdivisions. SENATOR KELLY asked how that happened. MS. ADAIR believed the ability of DEC to charge for subdivision plan review was pulled out of a bill several years ago, but did not remember why. SENATOR KELLY questioned whether individual homesites can be considered within a subdivision. MS. ADAIR clarified subdivision plans are reviewed to determine whether the sewage treatment design is suited to each lot, considering soil type and lot size. When an individual lot owner needs a plan review it is because a bank is requiring the review. The bank wants a health authority to ensure that the sewer system works. SENATOR TORGERSON commented DEC does not do the tests, they are done by an engineer. DEC merely rubber stamps those tests. He added there are not very many subdivision sewage projects. MS. ADAIR stated the Hillside area in Anchorage is an excellent example of a failed subdivision. At the time it was designed, the MOA was not a health authority, and that project was the impetus to establish a health authority within the municipality. SENATOR TORGERSON questioned whether any of the designs approved by DEC have ever failed. MS. ADAIR stated they have. SENATOR TORGERSON repeated these types of projects must be engineered by a licensed professional, by law. MS. ADAIR replied DEC does not merely rubber stamp designs, it reviews all documentation to fulfill health authority requirements for lending institutions. SENATOR KELLY did not believe the subdivision review fee would get through the legislative process. SENATOR KELLY adjourned the meeting at 3:22 p.m.