Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/20/1995 02:10 PM L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
               SENATE LABOR AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE                             
                         April 20, 1995                                        
                           2:10 P.M.                                           
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
 Senator Tim Kelly, Chairman                                                   
 Senator John Torgerson, Vice Chairman                                         
 Senator Mike Miller                                                           
 Senator Judy Salo                                                             
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
 Senator Jim Duncan                                                            
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
 CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 28(TRA)                                                
 "An Act relating to transfer of motor vehicle ownership, motor                
 vehicle registration fees, and motor vehicle emissions inspection;            
 and providing for an effective date."                                         
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 220(L&C)                                                
 "An Act relating to the duties of the commissioner of commerce and            
 economic development concerning the Alaska Tourism Marketing                  
 Council; relating to the per diem travel expenses of the council's            
 board of directors; relating to the powers and duties of the                  
 council; extending the termination date of the council; and                   
 providing for an effective date."                                             
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
 SB 28 - See Senate Transportation minutes dated 3/28/95 and                   
 HB 220 - No previous action to record.                                        
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
 Senator Dave Donley                                                           
 State Capitol                                                                 
 Juneau, AK 99811-1182                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Sponsor of SB 28.                                      
 Juanita Hensley, Director                                                     
 Division of Motor Vehicles                                                    
 P.O. Box 20020                                                                
 Juneau, AK 99811-0020                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Commented on SB 28.                                    
 Wally Hopkins, Chief Executive Officer                                        
 Quick Lube                                                                    
 1780 Peger Rd.                                                                
 Fairbanks, AK 99709                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SB 28.                                       
 Representative Joe Green                                                      
 State Capitol                                                                 
 Juneau, AK 99811-1182                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Sponsor of HB 46.                                      
 Catherine Reardon, Director                                                   
 Division of Occupational Licensing                                            
 P.O. Box 110806                                                               
 Juneau, AK 99811-0806                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46.                                       
 Vernon Akin, Registered Mechanical Engineer                                   
 P.O. Box 22104                                                                
 Juneau, AK 99801                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposed HB 46.                                         
 Graham Rolstad, Vice President                                                
 Engineering Construction                                                      
 Matanuska Telephone Association                                               
 Representing the Alaska Telephone Association                                 
 1740 S. Chugach St.                                                           
 Palmer, AK 99645                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46 as written.                            
 Nancy Schoephoester                                                           
 ARCO, Alaska                                                                  
 P.O. Box 100360                                                               
 Anchorage, AK 99508                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46.                                       
 Lee Holmes                                                                    
 RSA Engineering                                                               
 2710 Scarborough Dr.                                                          
 Anchorage, AK 99504                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46 and the intent of Section 3.           
 Dick Armstrong, Chairman                                                      
 ALS Board                                                                     
 Anchorage, AK                                                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 46.                                     
 Patrick Dooley, President                                                     
 P.O. Box 202807                                                               
 Anchorage, AK 99520                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46.                                       
 Janet Reeser                                                                  
 P.O. Box 202807                                                               
 Anchorage, AK 99520                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46.                                       
 Kimberly Chancy                                                               
 P.O. Box 202807                                                               
 Anchorage, AK 99520                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46.                                       
 Steve Altech                                                                  
 P.O. Box 202807                                                               
 Anchorage, AK 99520                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46.                                       
 Rob White, Project Manager                                                    
 Raytheon ARCO Alliance Contract                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46.                                       
 John Burdick                                                                  
 300 Hermit, Ste. #7                                                           
 Juneau, AK 99801                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Commented on HB 46.                                    
 Jim Rowe, Executive Director                                                  
 Alaska Telephone Association                                                  
 4341 B St., Suite 304                                                         
 Anchorage, AK 99508                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46.                                       
 Colin Maynard                                                                 
 1400 W. Benson Ave., #500                                                     
 Anchorage, AK 99517                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Commented on HB 46.                                    
 Ken Brock                                                                     
 ARCO, Alaska                                                                  
 P.O. Box 100360                                                               
 Anchorage, AK 99508                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46.                                       
 Bob Hancock                                                                   
 Anchorage Telephone Utility                                                   
 600 Telephone Ave.                                                            
 Anchorage, AK 99507                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 46 as written.                            
 John Litten                                                                   
 P.O. Box 1001                                                                 
 Sitka, AK 99835                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported HB 220.                                      
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 95-18, SIDE A                                                           
 Number 001                                                                    
        SB  28 MOTOR VEHICLE REG FEE/EMISS'N INSPECTIONS                      
 CHAIRMAN KELLY called the Senate Labor and Commerce Committee                 
 meeting to order at 2:10 and announced SB 28 to be up for                     
 SENATOR DAVE DONLEY, sponsor, said SB 28 is designed to change the            
 I.M. testing program in Alaska from every year to every other year.           
 Almost all other states, including California, do it every other              
 He said, at the request of Senator Rieger, there was a                        
 restructuring of DMV fees.  Currently, there is an additional $10             
 fee if you come to a DMV office in person when you could do it by             
 mail.  Senator Rieger thought the fees should be $10 with a rebate            
 if you use the mail. Personally, he said, he is very ambivalent               
 about this change and really wanted to just do away with the fee.             
 However, financially it is hard to do that since DMV has become               
 dependent on that extra revenue.                                              
 SENATOR DONLEY said the point of the legislation is to get bi-                
 annual testing which would be a real positive thing to do for the             
 people of Alaska.                                                             
 SENATOR KELLY asked if you still have to register every year, but             
 get the emission test every second year.  SENATOR DONLEY responded            
 that was correct.  He elaborated that there has been interest in              
 bi-annual registration, but the argument against it in past years             
 has been because we have to get I.M. tests every year and there is            
 the shock of having to pay twice as much every other year rather              
 than scheduling the payments out, so to speak.  He thought bi-                
 annual registration would save the state a lot of money in                    
 administrative costs, but this particular bill doesn't do that.               
 Number 93                                                                     
 JUANITA HENSLEY, Division of Motor Vehicles, explained the reason             
 they have not gone to bi-annual registration is because of programs           
 that have been added over the years, such as the yearly emissions             
 program and the collection of 13 communities' motor vehicle                   
 registration taxes which are collected on an annual basis.                    
 SENATOR SALO asked why you couldn't collect taxes on a bi-annual              
 basis.  MS. HENSLEY explained the statute says it has to be                   
 collected annually.                                                           
 SENATOR TORGERSON asked if insurance was required before you                  
 register your vehicle now.  MS. HENSLEY answered that is a                    
 SENATOR TORGERSON asked what would bi-annual do to that.  MS.                 
 HENSLEY said they don't look at insurance verification.  They just            
 have the person sign a certified statement on the registration                
 saying they have insurance as required by law and they are expected           
 to keep it.                                                                   
 WALLY HOPKINS, Quick Lube Chief Executive Officer, said they are              
 the largest provider of emission testing in the state, employing 25           
 people in the Anchorage and Fairbanks emissions program.  The                 
 annual payroll for these people is $1.1 million.  In recent years             
 the violation of federal standard has fallen a maximum of three or            
 four times a year when Anchorage or Fairbanks has an extreme                  
 temperature inversion.                                                        
 Current programs operating in Anchorage and Fairbanks are recently            
 new, he explained.  They have invested over $1 million in                     
 facilities, equipment, and personnel to be able to provide these              
 services.  After a successful 90-day pilot program in Anchorage,              
 including a reregistration service, they hoped to open another                
 facility in Fairbanks within the next 30 days. He thought this was            
 a prime example of private enterprise and government working                  
 together.  With the reregistration process the state does not have            
 any cost and they are not charging their customers any fee for this           
 At their facility in Anchorage they can test eight cars at a time             
 and they are gearing up to do 12 cars at a time.  The average wait            
 to get a vehicle tested there is less than 10 minutes.  They are              
 currently testing 22 1/2% of vehicles in Anchorage, according to              
 the number of registrations that are being mailed out to the public           
 in Anchorage.                                                                 
 He concluded saying that if this bill passes, it will eliminate 50%           
 or more of the jobs within the emission testing industry.  It will            
 put a hardship on the residents of Alaska who are subject to                  
 emissions testing by doubling the cost of repairs for failed                  
 vehicles.  It would put an extreme hardship on good businesses that           
 in good faith planned, developed, and provided emission testing               
 based on established programs.                                                
 SENATOR KELLY asked Ms. Hensley if there was a cap for an emission            
 inspection in statute.  She replied that she didn't have that                 
 answer, but knew that DMV collects $1 for the processing of those             
 certificates.  In this bill it would go up to $2.                             
 SENATOR KELLY asked if there was a set fee for emission inspections           
 at his shops.  MR. HOPKINS said they are charging $29.95 for the              
 inspection and they add the $10 registration fee at this time.  He            
 said he thought Anchorage had $45 as a cap.  Fairbanks has                    
 something like $65.                                                           
 Number 260                                                                    
 RON KING, Department of Environmental Conservation, said that state           
 statute and regulations do not limit what an inspection cost could            
 be.  Local statutes and ordinances in Anchorage and Fairbanks limit           
 what the facility can charge.  In Anchorage it is $40 and Fairbanks           
 has a $40 or $45 upper limit.                                                 
 SENATOR KELLY asked him how many vehicles are tested in Anchorage             
 every year.  MR. KING replied approximately 150,000 vehicles that             
 qualify for this program are in Anchorage and approximately 50,000            
 in Fairbanks.                                                                 
 SENATOR TORGERSON asked if he had a position on going to two years.           
 MR. KING replied that the department has been concerned with going            
 to an every other year inspection until the communities have                  
 attained the standard.  Based on the failure rates, however, and              
 working with DMV and Senator Donley, they believe they put together           
 a package that will enable them to convince EPA to approve an every           
 other year inspection.                                                        
 SENATOR KELLY commented that Mr. Hopkins has already recovered his            
 investment.  MR. HOPKINS disagreed and explained that it would take           
 about three years to amortize their investment.                               
 Number 291                                                                    
 SENATOR TORGERSON asked Mr. Hopkins what the average cost of fixing           
 an emission problem would be.  MR. HOPKINS replied the average cost           
 would be about $100 - $125 per repair.  He explained with an every            
 other year scenario, instead of 17% of vehicles failing (the figure           
 for now) there would about 35% or more.                                       
 SENATOR DONLEY said the last committee changed the effective date             
 to 1996 which would give businesses time to adjust to the new plan.           
 The Division would have some discretion to deal with problem                  
 automobiles.  They also have some authority, through regulation, to           
 address the cost issue.  He noted that after some review of                   
 correspondence, he was struck with the discrepancy between fees               
 charged for I.M. testing in Alaska versus other states.  Our fees             
 up here are twice as much.                                                    
 SENATOR KELLY said he liked the idea of bi-annual registration, but           
 he didn't think there would be time with 30 days left to go.  He              
 hoped legislation like that would be introduced at a later time.              
 SENATOR SALO said she was concerned because she had many                      
 constituents call her about the $10 fee and thought the bill just             
 flip flopped the issue around.  If the argument is revenue, and               
 having become dependent on that revenue, she thought that was                 
 negated by the fact that every one of those fees is going up $10.             
 She would like to see the elimination of that section unless there            
 is compelling information from the DMV that it's a good idea.                 
 SENATOR DONLEY commented that section is not related to the bi-               
 annual testing proposal.                                                      
 MS. HENSLEY said the original bill did do away with the $10 fee               
 proposal if you walked in as opposed to mailing in the                        
 registration.  Since they have gone to the $10 fee, mail has been             
 increased to total 60%.  Senator Rieger's amendment would increase            
 everyone's registration by $10 unless you mail it in and get a                
 rebate, with the exception on page 2, lines 9 - 12, which deletes             
 language that allowed them to waive the $10 fee if you are required           
 to be in the office to handle a transaction.                                  
 People who choose to register their cars at the I.M. stations are             
 not charged the $10 walk-in fee, although some of the stations                
 charge a $10 processing fee.  This bill makes it equitable for                
 everyone and will generate approximately $2.5 in general fund                 
 revenue which their department doesn't receive unless it is                   
 appropriated to them, MS. HENSLEY explained.                                  
 SENATOR KELLY asked if SB 28 encouraged smaller lines in the DMV              
 offices.  MS. HENSLEY agreed that it did.                                     
 SENATOR DONLEY said he didn't think the fees section of the bill              
 had an effect one way or the other on that.  He said SB 28 didn't             
 change the incentive to register by mail.  He said the committee              
 could delete the fee section and the status quo would remain that             
 the division would be assessing the $10.                                      
 SENATOR SALO said her intention would be to take out the section so           
 they would lose the ability to collect the $10.  She didn't think             
 people would automatically start going back to DMV instead of using           
 the mail.                                                                     
 MS. HENSLEY said offering a program with incentive to keep people             
 from standing in a line so you can give better service to someone             
 who has to be there is what they are seeking.  She said it was                
 Number 435                                                                    
 SENATOR KELLY commented that even if this bill passes people could            
 still register their vessels at the various I.M. stations.  MS.               
 HENSLEY agreed that was correct.                                              
 SENATOR KELLY asked if DMV supported this bill.  MS. HENSLEY said             
 they support it as drafted.                                                   
 SENATOR DONLEY said one amendment was recommended by DEC to make a            
 different effective date to allow them to begin enforcement                   
 SENATOR TORGERSON moved amendment #1.  There were no objections and           
 it was so ordered.                                                            
 SENATOR TORGERSON moved to pass CSSB 28 (L&C) from committee with             
 individual recommendations.  There were no objections and it was so           
        HB  46 ARCHITECT, ENGINEER & SURVEYOR REGULATION                      
 SENATOR KELLY announced HB 46 to be up for consideration.                     
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN, sponsor, explained that HB 46 is a "fix             
 bill."  It straightens out when a registrant will issue drawings or           
 reports, etc. that will be sealed.  Section 2 was an attempt to               
 tighten up who can actually be called an engineer, because some               
 people were calling themselves engineers without being registered             
 engineers.  Section 3 is the addition of engineering types of                 
 people under the exemption category that compromises 8.48.331 of              
 the code.  It attempts to exempt engineers who do not perform                 
 engineering functions for the public.  In other words, they are               
 doing it for their employer and it is to be used only in that                 
 CATHERINE REARDON, Director, Division of Occupational Licensing,              
 first discussed section 3, where the exemption for employees who              
 are doing engineering work for their companies is added into the              
 law.  The reason people support this is because they believe the              
 statutory definition of the practice of engineering is broad and              
 ambiguous.  There is a certain degree of mistrust of the                      
 architects, engineers, and land surveyors Board and believe they              
 use this broad language to require engineers where they aren't                
 really necessary.  She felt that if the Board was extending the               
 definition of engineering excessively, that could be corrected by             
 creating a more balanced board.                                               
 Another argument you can hear is that industry has technicians who            
 do not have formal engineering education, but have on-the-job                 
 experience who are as good or better than registered engineers.               
 Their position is that while unlicensed employees can certainly               
 safely perform some design work, there are some types of work that            
 require the educational background of a registered engineer.  She             
 pointed out that HB 46 does not just exempt utilities or the oil              
 industry or some of the larger businesses in the state from the use           
 of engineers, it exempts everyone and it doesn't require that well            
 trained technicians do the work in the place of engineers.  It says           
 that any employee can which raises the possibility that a day                 
 laborer, for example, could be designing and constructing a public            
 Finally, MS. REARDON said, one of the arguments they would hear is            
 that the occupational licensing statutes should not determine when            
 a registered engineer is required, because that's the proper role             
 of other regulatory agencies, like DEC or the fire marshall.  She             
 argued that the whole purpose of occupational licensing statutes is           
 to determine who is adequately prepared to safely perform certain             
 service and who should be prevented from doing that work, because             
 there is potential public danger.  That is what a medical statute             
 does, also.                                                                   
 The CS to HB 46 does not completely satisfy the division's                    
 responsibility to protect public health and safety, MS. REARDON               
 said.  Although on page 3, buildings and structures that are                  
 primarily used for public occupancy are excluded from the                     
 exemption.  Buildings and structures that are used by employees are           
 still exempted.  They still have some concern with fish processing            
 plants and office buildings that are used specifically by one                 
 company and making sure they are all structurally sound.                      
 The second concern would be electrical systems.  It is not just               
 utilities who design and construct electrical systems.                        
 Finally, MS. REARDON said, there is discussion that the uniform               
 building code, through the fire marshall, is providing protection             
 for structural soundness.  However, the fire marshall only reviews            
 plans to see if they satisfy the fire standards.  No one looks at             
 the plans to see if the structural requirements of the uniform                
 building code are being met and there is no one to investigate a              
 complaint that a building does not meet a building code.                      
 She, therefore, supported an amendment which would narrow the                 
 exemption.  She suggested to do this would be to exempt electrical            
 systems over 35 kilovolts and exempt all buildings rather than                
 those just used for public occupancy.  Another alternative would be           
 to simply delete the word "public occupancy" from line 29 on page             
 3 and replace it with "human occupancy."                                      
 SENATOR KELLY asked her if her department had the same position on            
 the House bill.  MS. REARDON replied that when it went through the            
 House, their position was that they would listen to public                    
 testimony and hope there would be a compromise developed that would           
 protect both public safety and address industry interests.                    
 Number 576                                                                    
 VERNON AKIN, Registered Mechanical Engineer, said the word engineer           
 is used very loosely these days.  The reason "registered" was                 
 dropped from in front of "engineer" was so that #10 would be legal.           
 He supported keeping the word "registered," because that is being             
 TAPE 95-18, SIDE B                                                            
 MR. AKIN said that registration of an architect, engineer, or land            
 surveyor shows that an individual has passed the requirements of              
 the state and has the proficiency required to practice the                    
 profession.  Doctors, dentists, lawyers, chiropractors, and                   
 barbers, etc. must all be registered.  Boards were established to             
 give the public some measure of confidence that a member that is              
 registered in that field has competence.  It also puts the                    
 responsibility on the members that they either perform as required            
 or lose their license.                                                        
 Item 10 was added so that an employee of large company could do               
 engineering work even though he had no proof required by the state            
 to indicate he was qualified to design.  This allows a company to             
 produce a design by a non-registered individual and the company               
 guarantees the work.  He pointed out that there is little solace in           
 that for any injured or dead persons who suffer because of poor               
 Yet it says that 10 does not apply to buildings or structures whose           
 primary use is public occupancy.  He asked what kind of building              
 wouldn't be used for public occupancy or could be used for it in              
 the future.  He asked why would we want to lower our standards to             
 allow more chance of incompetent designs.                                     
 MR. AKIN opposed HB 46.                                                       
 Number 570                                                                    
 SENATOR LEMAN said he is a registered professional engineer,                  
 although his work would not be in the possible exemptions.  He said           
 it is his opinion that some relief is necessary to accommodate                
 utility companies and industry who do a lot of this work, because             
 of how the 1990 change has been enforced.  To make a change as                
 broad as this restores almost exactly the wording that was in there           
 in 1990 and is the wrong approach.                                            
 He proposed putting in a new "e" that would provide some size limit           
 to what a commercial building could be.  In item 10 he proposed on            
 line 3 inserting "unless the health, safety, or well-fare of the              
 public, including employees and visitors is involved."  He also               
 suggested added "employees and visitors" in other appropriate                 
 places and adding "high voltage electrical systems."  Third, he               
 suggested inserting "other requirements of state law, local                   
 ordinances, building officials, property owners, or adopted                   
 construction and safety codes."                                               
 He noted that there are requirements other places in state law for            
 engineering seals on designs and engineering reports.  It needs to            
 be clear that these are not exempted and this is not what is being            
 He also said there may be future possibilities for exemptions that            
 come up and he thought those should be addressed when they come up            
 and suggested item 11 "other exemptions granted by the ALS Board by           
 regulation when the health, safety, or welfare of the public are              
 not substantially involved."                                                  
 Number 511                                                                    
 SENATOR SALO asked if the bill needed language to assure that other           
 requirements in law for a P.E. certification, as well as municipal            
 ordinances requiring P.E. certification.  SENATOR LEMAN said he               
 would like that comfort, although the drafting attorney might not             
 think it necessary.                                                           
 GRAHAM ROLSTAD, Vice President, Engineering Construction, Matanuska           
 Telephone said he represented the Alaska Telephone Association.  He           
 said he supported the bill as written and felt that section 3, item           
 10 is very critical to the telephone utilities in providing cost              
 effective services to their customers.                                        
 MR. ROLSTAD said prior to 1990 there was an exemption that was                
 removed without public hearing.  He said there wasn't a problem up            
 until that time, and he didn't see the need for over-regulation.              
 He said there are specialists in telephone work and national                  
 standards they live by which allow them to put in telecommunication           
 facilities that protect the public.  The bottom line is that the              
 people are well trained and the companies are responsible for their           
 work and they take that responsibility seriously.                             
 Number 450                                                                    
 NANCY SCHOEPHOESTER, ARCO, Alaska, supported CSHB 46.  She noted              
 that section 3, reinstating the in-house exemption for engineers              
 which existed in Alaska prior to 1990 currently exists in 37 other            
 states.  They feel there is a licensing board whose duty it is to             
 determine what the qualifications are to become a licensed                    
 engineer.  They feel it is within the purview of the regulating               
 local state and federal agencies to determine and regulate the                
 She said that Ken Thompson, President of ARCO has established as              
 one of his priorities within ARCO that there will be a safe, low-             
 cost, and long-term company.                                                  
 LEE HOLMES said he is a licensed mechanical engineer in Alaska.  He           
 supported the first two parts of the bill and the intent of the               
 third part of the bill.  The exception he has is with the wording.            
 He didn't have a problem with MTA, for instance, in designing                 
 telephone systems, but he didn't see where that would qualify them            
 to design a new office building for MTA.  The wording of the                  
 exception would allow them to do that.                                        
 Number 426                                                                    
 DICK ARMSTRONG, Chairman, ALS Board, opposed HB 46, because they              
 feel the exemption proposed in section 3 is too broad and does not            
 protect the public from unsafe buildings or facilities.  With the             
 amount of remote construction that occurs in Alaska and the                   
 relatively few building code officials, passage of this exemption             
 will lose a key component of safety in resulting facility                     
 Future purchasers of facilities that are not designed by licensed             
 professionals are going to be purchasing potentially non-code                 
 conforming properties that are a very real threat to public safety.           
 PATRICK DOOLEY said he supported HB 46 without change.  He said all           
 it does is restore the exemption for in-house engineering work                
 which would save the state many millions of dollars.  Their                   
 experience with those people is that their work is professional and           
 in compliance.                                                                
 JANET REESER, Engineering Services Manager, said they are well                
 regulated and very responsible and supported HB 46 as written.                
 Number 362                                                                    
 KIMBERLY CHANCY, registered engineer, said that registration alone            
 does not insure individual competency to work in specific                     
 industrial applications.  She has found that the industry is pretty           
 comfortable in knowing where their reputations lie.                           
 STEVE ALTECH, Manufacturing Manager, supported HB 46 without                  
 ROB WHITE, Raytheon ARCO Alliance Contract, supported HB 46 in its            
 unamended form.  This bill is in the best interests of Alaskans               
 providing quality control.  He specifically mentioned he supported            
 section 3.                                                                    
 Number 294                                                                    
 JOHN BURDICK, registered engineer in Alaska, said he thought                  
 section 10 was too broad as written.  In addition the increased               
 cost is a red herring.  He said a lot of his students work for ARCO           
 and it wouldn't be hard for them to become registered and it would            
 be a hurdle that would protect the public.                                    
 JIM ROWE, Executive Director, Alaska Telephone Association,                   
 supported HB 46 in its current version.  He emphasized that this is           
 a compromise piece of legislation.  He appreciated the legislature            
 making review of this issue a very public process as it didn't                
 happen in 1990 when essentially the same wording in section 3 was             
 taken out.  In the interests of his customers who will bear the               
 burden of the increased cost of having registered engineers do                
 every piece of infrastructure development he pleaded that they do             
 not increase their telecommunications costs.                                  
 KEN BROCK, Engineer with ARCO Alaska, supported HB 46 and in                  
 particular the reinstatement of licenses and exemptions for in-               
 house engineers.                                                              
 COLIN MAYNARD said the registration law is to protect public safety           
 by requiring minimum qualification to do engineering work.  The               
 state has the responsibility to make sure that engineering is done            
 by qualified people.  He supported HB 46 and the language Senator             
 Leman proposed.                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY asked if professional engineers were required to keep           
 up continuing education.  SENATOR LEMAN replied no.                           
 Number 169                                                                    
 BOB HANCOCK, Anchorage Telephone Utility, supported HB 46 as                  
 written.  He said their plant is designed in accordance with                  
 industry standards.  They use AT&T guidelines and national safety             
 codes.  They have had no complaints of substandard construction.              
 They have had no incidences of physical injury or harm caused by              
 construction or their engineering methods.  They do not offer                 
 engineering services outside of their business.                               
 SENATOR TORGERSON moved to pass HB 46 from committee with                     
 individual recommendations.  There were no objections and it was so           
           HB 220 ALASKA TOURISM MARKETING COUNCIL                           
  SENATOR KELLY announced HB 220 to be up for consideration and said          
 the committee was concerned with the travel provision in this bill.           
 SENATOR MILLER moved to adopt a conceptual amendment adopting the             
 senate language into HB 220.                                                  
 SENATOR KELLY asked Jerry Gernigan and John Litton if they                    
 supported this bill.  JOHN LITTEN said they supported it.                     
 There were no objections and it was so ordered.                               
 SENATOR MILLER moved to pass SCSHB 220 (L&C) from committee with              
 individual recommendations.  There were no objections and it was so           
 SENATOR KELLY adjourned the meeting at 3:40 p.m.                              

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