Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/13/1996 09:30 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
MINUTES
SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE
13 March 1996
9:30 A.M.
TAPES
SFC-96, #39, Sides 1 and 2
SFC-96, #40, Side 1
CALL TO ORDER
Senator Rick Halford, Co-chair, convened the meeting at
approximately 9:30 A.M.
PRESENT
Co-chairman Halford along with co-chairman Frank, Senators
Phillips, Sharp, Rieger and Zharoff were present when the
meeting convened. Senator Donley arrived shortly
thereafter.
Also Attending: Joe Ambrose, aide to Senator Robin Taylor;
Stephanie Szymanski, aide to Senator Drue Pearce; Dwight
Perkins, Special Assistant to the Office of the
Commissioner, Department of Labor; Catherine Reardon,
Director, Occupational Licensing, Department of Commerce and
Economic Development; Steven Dougherty, Assistant Attorney
Generan, Department of Law; Mike Greany, Director,
Legislative Finance Division; and other aides to committee
members.
Captain Joe D'Amico, Commercial Crimes Bureau, Division of
Fish & Wildlife Protection, Department of Public Safety
testified via teleconference.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
SENATE BILL NO. 278
"An Act relating to the authority of the Department of
Natural Resources to allow credits against fees at state
historical parks."
Joe Ambrose, aide to Senator Robin Taylor testified on
behalf of SB 278. Senator Sharp MOVED SB 278 and without
objection it was REPORTED OUT with individual
recommendations and zero fiscal note from Department of
Natural Resources.
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 31
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of
Alaska relating to voter ratification of legislative
approval of amendments of the Alaska Statehood Act affecting
an interest of the State of Alaska under that Act.
Stephanie Szymanski testified. Senator Sharp moved CSSJR
31(FIN) and without objection it was REPORTED OUT with
individual recommendations and fiscal notes of $2.2 from the
Division of Elections and zero from the office of the
Governor.
HOUSE BILL NO. 335
"An Act relating to the Big Game Commercial Services Board,
guide-outfitters, transporters, and commercial use permit
holders; extending the termination date of the Big Game
Commercial Services Board; and providing for an effective
date."
Dwight Perkins, Special Assistant to the Commissioner,
Department of Labor testified that the Department opposes
exemptions. Catherine Reardon, Director of Occupational
Licensing, Department of Commerce and Economic Development
reviewed proposed amendments of the Division to SCS CSHB
335(FIN). It was decided that a new CS should be prepared.
Captain Joe D'Amico, Commercial Crimes Bureau, Division of
Fish & Wildlife Protection, Department of Public Safety also
testified via teleconference. Pending preparation of new
CS, bill was held in committee.
SENATE BILL NO. 278
"An Act relating to the authority of the Department of
Natural Resources to allow credits against fees at state
historical parks."
Mr. Joe Ambrose, aide to Senator Robin Taylor was invited to
join the committee and testified on behalf of SB 278. This
bill was introduced to address concerns raised by the
Ketchikan Area State Parks Advisory Board and the Ketchikan
Gateway Borough Assembly. It would provide a mechanism by
which the Division of Parks and Outdoor Recreation could
acquire two small parcels of land adjacent to Totem Bight
State Historical Park. Ketchikan Public Utilities will
vacate the property which will revert to the Ketchikan
Gateway Borough. SB 278 would allow DNR to offer credits
against fees paid by commercial operators for payments made
to a municipality for projects that would alleviate access
congestion and parking problems at historical parks. The
Division of Parks and Outdoor Recreation indicated the use
of this provision at any State Historical Park other than
Totem Bight is unlikely. The authority would sunset on
December 31, 2000. This three year window is needed to
avoid drawing too quickly against fees.
Totem Bight is a twelve and a half acre State Park located
north of the city of Ketchikan. It had an estimated 160,000
visitors in 1995, half of them arriving on commercial tours.
In 1977 it was estimated that the park could handle between
636 and 744 people at one time. Actual use now exceeds 925
people. The park has only 7 parking spaces for buses. Up
to 21 buses park in the lot, on the road shoulders and at a
nearby gift shop. Park staff advises independent travellers
and local park users to avoid the park when the ships are in
town. To mitigate this overcrowding and congestion DNR is
proposing tour operators pay for the acquisition of the
borough-owned parcels to provide additional parking space
and additional attractions such as trails and a carving
demonstration area. The Department of Transportation has
told us they are interested in developing a transport
enhancement project along the road at Totem Bight if the
land becomes available. Totem Bight is a valuable asset,
the State has invested more than $1 million in capital
improvement projects in the past 10 years. Mr. Jim
Stratton, Division Director advised that they are
anticipating they would be using approximately $150,000
credits for this project. Senator Taylor is a long time
supporter of this unique facility on the water.
Senator Rieger asked if the sponsor of the bill would object
to expanding the bill to include private, non-profit
corporations.
Mr. Ambrose indicated the sponsor preferred to confine the
bill to historical parks.
Senator Sharp asked if the bill results in allowing a
partial or total diversion of payments now being made to DNR
to a municipality for improvements they would do on the
parking lot, why doesn't the fiscal note show a reduction
program receipt. Mr. Ambrose said that the department was
planning to increase the fees, not as a result of this bill,
and his understanding as far as the fiscal note was
concerned is that the end result is the State ends up with
the asset. Senator Sharp also asked about the parcel of
land owned by the Ketchikan Public Utilities that they plan
to vacate and would it revert back to the Ketchikan Gateway
Borough. Is this a transfer or sale? Mr. Ambrose indicated
that there was no sale. The property originally belonged to
Ketchikan Gateway Borough and KPU had been using it. There
was a reversion clause and they have to put it back in its
original condition.
Senator Frank asked if they were going to increase the fees
because it is now a more convenient facility. Mr. Ambrose
said the decision to increase the fee next year was made
prior to anyone even talking about this bill. The
Department would have to explain the fiscal note.
Senator Rieger said if this was to be a single park it might
not matter. A private, non-profit corporation in many
situations would be the best entity to develope an
improvement in a park. Sometimes there is some lack of
confidence in the municipal government to do what the people
in the area want. Instead of restricting the entity doing
the improvements as to municipalities, it should be brought
into private, non-profits to avoid the problems you
sometimes have when city halls' views are different from
those of the people outside of city hall.
Senator Phillips said there is an Eagle River Visitors
Center that is going to go non-profit to operate that
facility and he would like to give them that ability. Co-
chairman Halford said that this could be a pilot, one-time
project but would not make it the policy of the State. Mr.
Ambrose said that the municipality would not be making the
improvement. They will be transferring the property to the
State and improvements at Totem Bight State Park are made
from revenue generators within the park. This matter just
refers to the parking lot.
Senator Frank asked if the park's budget would go down by
$150,000 because the program receipts were going to go down.
Co-chairman Halford indicated that they would not.
In answer to questions posed by members at large, Mr.
Ambrose indicated that there were other historical parks in
the State, however they do not have the parking problems
this one has. This is a very specific bill. When the idea
came up the concern that the Co-chairman had was the first
thing Senator Taylor thought about. What authority are we
to give them? That is why the sunset provision is drafted
as closely as it is.
Senator Sharp MOVED SB 278 and without objection the bill
was REPORTED OUT with individual recommendations and a zero
fiscal note from the Department of Natural Resources.
CS FOR SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 31(FIN)
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State
of Alaska relating to voter approval of amendments of the
Alaska Statehood Act affecting an interest of the State
of Alaska under that Act.
Stephanie Szymanski, aide to Senator Drue Pearce was invited
to join the committee and testified on behalf of CSSJR
31(FIN). She indicated the language was substantially
reworded from the judiciary version and she clarified
concerns raised at the previous meeting.
Senator Phillips MOVED to adopt proposed CSSJR 31(FIN) and
without objection it was ADOPTED. Co-chairman Halford
indicated there was a $2.2 fiscal note from the Governor's
Office. Stephanie Szymanski discussed specific language of
placing the matter for election in the next general election
with Senators Zharoff and Sharp. Co-chairman Halford said
that it could go to special election if necessary.
Senator Sharp MOVED CSSJR 31(FIN) and without objection it
was REPORTED OUT with individual recommendations and fiscal
notes of $2.2 from the Division of Elections and zero from
the office of the Governor.
HOUSE BILL NO. 335
"An Act relating to the Big Game Commercial Services
Board, guide-outfitters, transporters, and commercial use
permit holders; extending the termination date of the Big
Game Commercial Services Board; and providing for an
effective date."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 335(RES)(title am)
"An Act extending the termination date of the Big Game
Commercial Services Board; eliminating the requirement
for a commercial use permit and for payment of
commercial use permit fees; amending the membership of
the Big Game Commercial Services Board; relating to the
qualifications for an assistant guide-outfitter license;
eliminating the requirement for testing of assistant
guide-outfitters; providing for additional licensing
requirements for transporters; eliminating the
requirement for prior approval to enter or remain on state
and federal land; eliminating the requirement t o
register base camps; amending the definition of 'big game
commercial services'; and providing for an effective
date."
Mr. Dwight Perkins, Special Assistant, Office of the
Commissioner, Department of Labor was invited to join the
committee and testified with regards to amending the
exemptions found in AS 23.10.055 to include individuals
employed as guides and assistant guides from entitlement to
minimum wage and overtime for the first sixty days while
hunting in the field. The Department of Labor has
historically opposed these kinds of exemptions because it
just eliminates another class of employees from having the
opportunity to receive minimum wage and overtime.
Co-chairman Halford indicated a long list of exclusions and
noted that this is a smaller exemption than most of those
already existing in the law. Mr. Perkins concurred that the
exemption does just carve out a minimum of time, i.e. the
sixty days. The Department feels that this equates to the
hunting season. Co-chairman Halford explained this bill was
advocated due to the fact that there was not usually a
supervisor available and the person running the camp could
decide whether to work longer hours. There is no real
authority. Wage and Hour has to make a decision based on
this information only.
Catherine Reardon, Director, Occupational Licensing was
invited to join the committee. She noted this was a
complete rewrite of the statute and reviewed amendment #1,
duties and powers of the Department. During discussion of
this amendment Senator Zharoff asked for a clarification of
the word "current", page 3, line 6. Ms. Reardon explained
that the language appeared on page 4, line 8 and was just
transferred over. Senator Rieger asked that the word
"appropriate" be inserted on line 3 page 27 before
"...disciplinary..." and Ms. Reardon concurred. Senator
Phillips noted that what may be an offense in one state may
not be an offense in Alaska. Ms. Reardon stated the theory
is that someone who will violate laws in another state will
have a propensity to ignore the laws here.
Captain Joe D'Amico, Commercial Crimes Bureau, Division of
Fish and Wildlife Protection testified via teleconference.
He concurred with Ms. Reardon's comments and noted the issue
is whether or not the law was broken and the individual was
charged or convicted. Co-chairman Halford said that someone
with a conviction was excluded. Captain D'Amico indicated
that there had been only a very few cases where an
individual wanted to challenge their conviction. Ms.
Reardon further indicated that the amendment included
"revoked or suspended in Alaska or another jurisdiction".
This would also include Canada and other countries. Senator
Phillips questioned the terms "outfitter" and "guide". Co-
chairman Halford said that was why the term "outfitter"
needed to be added. He flagged these objections for further
discussion.
Ms. Reardon continued on to amendment #2, license
qualifications. Co-chairman Halford said that it was
difficult for rural Alaskans to find a place to take the CPR
and first aid test and then the card was only good for one
year, whereas the license was good for two years. It should
be a requirement for getting a license but he opposed the
first aid requirement because he felt this was a barrier for
rural residents. Ms. Reardon indicated that he was correct
and one only needed a current first aid or CPR card for
renewal of the license.
Senator Rieger questioned the $500 fine and Senator Zharoff
wanted to know an example of what would cause a fine to be
$500. Captain D'Amico said that under current law any guide
or game violation would likely result in a fine over $500.
Co-chairman Halford asked if the current standard was
perhaps a little too tight? He concurred with Captain
D'Amico that the whole package needed to be looked at with
regards to what a violation is, what the standards are for
license actions, Court actions and administrative penalties.
Ms. Reardon continued on to amendment #3, registered guide
license. Co-chairman Halford indicated that page 4, lines 9
- 13 will remain open for further consideration of how
enforcement should be dealt with. He and Senator Phillips
discussed the experience requirement to take the test and
co-chairman Halford indicated that they were trying to
advocate currency in the experience requirement. He noted
that page 4, line 28 would remain open for further
discussion. Senator Zharoff asked about proof of financial
responsibility. Ms. Reardon said that current law requires
liability insurance and this amendment would expand it to
include assets.
Ms. Reardon continued to amendment #4, renewal of registered
guide license. She noted that in this section she was
deleting the hunt records. Captain D'Amico said that
harvest information is all included on one document at
present. Co-chairman Halford said that page 6, line 27 he
would hold open for further discussion.
Ms. Reardon continued on to amendment #5, qualifications to
be class A assistant guide license. Co-chairman Halford
said that they would need to have a substantive discussion
on the standard of discipline for both disqualification of
license and for the administrative action for penalties when
added to the Court's actions. Further policy questions
remain on rural residents qualifying for class-A assistant
guide licenses and first aid requirements.
Co-chairman Halford asked Captain D'Amico for information
regarding process and penalties for violation of a tagging,
reporting, export license or fee requirement as a minor
violation; process and penalties for wanton waste violation.
Captain D'Amico referred to four violations that result in
automatic license revocation under current law page 11, line
27. In addition to the license action any one of these four
violations could bring a criminal sentence in the guide
statute for up to one year and $30,000 fine plus additional
criminal sanctions available under Title 16 ranging from
$5,000 to a year in jail. These refer to state violations.
He referred to a tagging violation of a sheep which is a
$100 mail in bail. The guide, however, faces a guide
violation which has up to a $30,000 fine and a year in jail.
Co-chairman Halford asked about special felony provision
for guides and Captain D'Amico said it was for multiple
offenders who had one conviction on a guide violation.
There is presumptive law in the new bill that would mandate
a two-year sentence for some of those violations. Ms.
Reardon indicated that the reason they would like to keep
the civil option open is because if someone has done
something relatively minor and Public Safety does not take
them to court, a more mild sanction can be imposed through a
civil action.
(change to tape SFC-96, #40, Side 1)
Senator Phillips asked Captain D'Amico if they were
adequately equipped to enforce the laws at present. Captain
D'Amico indicated that he was concerned about losing the
commercial use permit fee because those funds were targeted
for rural Alaska Game and Guiding Enforcement. Under the
current system, however, an adequate job is being done. He
did voice concern that judges did not generally handle guide
license sentencing and referred that to the guide boards.
However, if a guide has a potential of losing his license he
is more apt to have a trial and that will affect the way
matters are handled. Senator Phillips voiced concern over
the ability to enforce the law in order to protect the
conservation of the resources in the state. He cited the
hunting of animals in closed season, including fishing.
Co-chairman Halford said the questions now before the
committee were how to deal with prior felonies; exclusion of
felons and, if so, for how long; prior violations of
hunting-sportfishing-guiding-outfitting statutes; exclusion
of licensing for how long; the big four violations;
automatic revocation of license or a suspension of license;
dealing with smaller violations; and dealing with second
smaller violations. This all has to be reviewed.
Senator Rieger referred to peer review and felt this was not
a good dependable policy. Co-chairman Halford said one gets
knowledge but not impartiality under this system. Some
standards have to be set up. Senator Zharoff said
originally this was a user friendly bill toward rural
residents. He asked what criteria was used for non-resident
fees? Catherine Reardon said for criteria she just simply
said "double".
Senator Sharp was concerned about the "big four" violations
and the conflict between state and federal regulations.
Captain D'Amico felt this was a valid concern. He said the
reason the federal regulations were included was to protect
national parks, such as Mt. Denali and Katmai. Co-chairman
Halford also indicated his concern. Captain D'Amico
referred to a case where a bandit had gotten into a national
park, which state game regulations do not address, and then
the state was unable to take license action. The concern
now is that the feds are managing more areas and they do
occasionally have areas open that the state does not or vice
versa. Co-chairman Halford referred to amendment #9 and
wanted to know who decided "convicted of" as opposed to
"violated". Ms. Reardon said that the Department through a
hearing officer decided. She also referred to the possible
options for disciplinary actions the department may take.
Co-chairman Halford and Ms. Reardon discussed dealing with
the level of enforcement. She noted that it was very
difficult to get a hearing officer to recommend a
revocation.
Mr. Steven Dougherty, assistant Attorney General, Department
of Law was invited to join the committee. In response to
co-chairman Halford's question regarding non-resident fees
he said that the Court had put forth some standards for
imposing fee differentials. Non-residents can be required
to pay their fair share of the administration of a program.
It must be shown that non-residents should have to pay extra
because residents are already contributing their fare share.
He noted that the "Carlson case" was now before the Supreme
Court for the second time. Initially it was held that non-
residents have to pay the full cost of administration even
if state residents are being subsidized in some manner and
it was rejected by the Court. The Court further stated that
mere bald assertion was not sufficient. Facts and figures
must be supplied to show how the residents and non-residents
become comparable. Basically, the State constitution is
more limiting.
Co-chairman Halford HELD HB 335 in committee and said a new
draft should be presented with the division's amendments
involving management and technical rewrites highlighted.
SENATE BILL NO. 309
"An Act relating to insurance pooling."
Co-chairman Halford introduced the bill relating to
insurance pooling as requested by the Home Builders and
there was NO OBJECTION. The bill was subsequently numbered
SB 309 and read across on the Senate Floor.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 11:27 A.M.
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