Legislature(1995 - 1996)
05/06/1995 09:40 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
MINUTES
SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE
May 6, 1995
9:40 a.m.
TAPES
SFC-95, #63, Side 2 (000-end)
SFC-95, #65, Side 1 (000-370)
CALL TO ORDER
Senator Rick Halford, Co-chair, convened the meeting at
approximately 9:40 a.m.
PRESENT
In addition to Co-chairman Halford, Senators Phillips,
Rieger, Sharp, and Zharoff were present.
ALSO ATTENDING: Senator Taylor; Representative Therriault;
Former Senator Pat Pourchot, Legislative Director, Office of
the Governor; Nico Bus, Acting Director, Division of Support
Services, Dept. of Natural Resources; Juanita Hensley,
Chief, Driver Services, Dept. of Public Safety; Bruce
Twomley, Chairman, Limited Entry Commission, Dept. of Fish
and Game; Katherine Buchanan, aide to Representative
Grussendorf; Melinda Gruening, aide to Representative Joe
Green; Daniella Loper, aide to Representative Porter; and
aides to committee members and other members of the
legislature.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
SB 167 - DAY FINES & INFO FOR COLLECTING FINES
The bill continued to be held in a subcommittee
under Senator Rieger, and two members of his
choosing, for work during the interim.
HB 32 - PFD ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEEDINGS
Appearance by Melinda Gruening on behalf of
Representative Green. CSHB 32 (Fin) was REPORTED
OUT of committee with a fiscal note from the Dept.
of Revenue showing zero cost and revenue of
$121.8.
HB 107 - RESTRICTED LIMITED ENTRY PERMITS
Discussion with Senator Taylor, Katherine
Buchanan, and Bruce Twomley. CSHB 107 (FSH) was
then REPORTED OUT of committee with a zero fiscal
note from the Dept. of Fish and Game.
HB 159 - DWI LAWS/ MINOR IN POSSESSION LAWS
Discussion was had with Daniella Loper and Juanita
Hensley. The bill was held in committee due to
concerns regarding lack of a revenue fiscal note
and costs shown on the Dept. of Corrections note.
Co-chairman Halford directed that the Legislative
Finance Division review assumptions in all fiscal
notes and provide information on revenues
resulting from increasing the minimum fine from
$1,000 to $5,000.
HB 191 - MANAGEMENT OF STATE LAND AND RESOURCES
Discussion was had with Rep. Therriault and Nico
Bus. The bill was then held in committee for
further review of repealing language and lease
provisions.
SENATE BILL NO. 167
An Act relating to day fines in certain criminal cases
and release of employment information for use in the
collection of criminal judgments.
Co-chairman Halford inquired concerning the status of work
on SB 167. Senator Rieger commented upon feedback received
from the Council on Domestic Violence and the Alaska Court
System and said that agencies involved in the issue have no
problem with additional work being done during the interim
to make the bill more meaningful. The court system is
hesitant to implement the program as presently envisioned
since it does not appear to get to the targeted problem.
Co-chairman Halford directed that SB 167 be held for interim
work in a subcommittee chaired by Senator Rieger.
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 159(JUD)
An Act allowing a person under age 21 to be arrested by
a peace officer without a warrant for illegal
possession, consumption, or control of alcohol;
relating to the offenses of driving while intoxicated
and failure to submit to a chemical test of breath or
blood; and providing for an effective date.
Co-chairman Halford directed that CSHB 159 (Jud) be brought
on for discussion. DANIELLA LOPER, aide to Representative
Porter, came before committee and read from the sponsor's
statement (copy appended to these minutes). She noted that
drunk driving remains a misdemeanor in Alaska regardless of
the number of times an individual is convicted. At some
point repeat convictions should constitute a felony. The
proposed bill would provide the criminal justice system
tools to combat this crime by:
1. Allowing a peace officer in any municipality to
arrest without a warrant minors who drink alcohol.
2. Rendering drunk driving a felony on the third
offense within a five-year period.
3. Granting prosecution ability to convict based on
prior offenses of lower blood alcohol levels than
provided for in current statutes.
The provision highlighted in item 3, above, would allow
Alaska to take into consideration convictions in other
states with lower blood alcohol standards when convicting an
individual on the third offense. The proposed bill would
give Alaska one of the toughest drunk driving statutes in
the nation. Passage would send a clear message that
Alaskans will no longer tolerate persons who drive drunk.
Senator Rieger asked how the proposed bill would mesh with
earlier passed legislation allowing peace officers to take
action without a warrant against juveniles in possession.
Ms. Loper advised that prior legislation allowed state
troopers to take action but did not allow municipalities to
do so. This bill makes that technical correction.
Discussion followed between Senator Rieger and Ms. Loper
regarding the case in Ketchikan giving rise to both the
proposed bill and earlier passed legislation regarding
warrantless arrest of juveniles.
In response to a question from Senator Zharoff regarding
infringement on individual rights, Ms. Loper directed
attention to page 1, line 8, and noted language allowing a
peace officer to arrest without a warrant when an officer
has "reasonable cause for believing that the person has
committed a crime . . . ." Senator Zharoff suggested that
arrest would then be based on the judgment of the officer.
Ms. Loper concurred, advising that that is the case in
almost every crime.
Senator Zharoff voiced concern regarding potential for
harassment of juveniles by police officers and suggested
that municipal liability may occur. Ms. Loper reiterated
that the standard in the proposed bill reflects statutory
practice since "the early 1960s." Further discussion of the
definition of "reasonable cause" followed.
Senator Rieger cited statutory ability to arrest without a
warrant in cases of stalking and suggested that ability to
make such an arrest usually involves immediate danger to
another person. He then noted that the situation is
somewhat different when applied to a minor in possession.
He acknowledged that the proposed bill is less troublesome
than earlier passed legislation in that the instant bill
allows for warrantless arrest followed by the usual judicial
process while the earlier bill allowed for warrantless
arrest, conviction, and subsequent appeal of the conviction.
Ms. Loper next referenced a memorandum from the district
attorney and read the following definition of minor
consuming (AS 04.16.050) into the record:
A person under the age of twenty-one years may not
knowingly consume, possess, or control alcoholic
beverages furnished persons under 04.16.051(b).
The district attorney contends that the word "possess"
should be interpreted to include possession by consumption.
Two judicial officers in the First Judicial District have
ruled that it does not. The court ruled that an officer who
contacts a minor under the influence of alcohol may not
arrest the minor unless the officer actually sees the minor
consume the alcohol, possess the alcohol, or control the
alcohol. Merely being under the influence in the officer's
presence is not enough. That is why the proposed bill is
attempting to change current statutes.
Further discussion followed regarding the definition of a
class C felony. Ms. Loper advised that it is the lowest
class of felony.
In response to a question from Senator Zharoff, Co-chairman
Halford advised that "this area is specifically exempted
from the day fines original legislation."
Senator Rieger referenced new language in Sec. 9, page 5,
and inquired concerning punishment under subsection (q),
noting that it applies in some cases but not others. Ms.
Loper explained that subsection (q) establishes the new
conviction upon a third offense. For an individual
convicted of more than two DWI offenses, the third
conviction will become a class C felony. The perpetrator
will spend 240 days in jail and will be subject to a $5,000
fine.
JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief of Driver Services, Division of Motor
Vehicles, Dept. of Public Safety, advised that for an
individual arrested for a subsequent drunk driving offense
within a preceding ten-year period, present law applies and
a felony will not be charged. When a third DWI offense
occurs within a five-year period, the perpetrator would fall
under new subsection (q) provisions and a felony would be
charged.
Co-chairman Halford asked how the cumulative fiscal note
cost of $1.8 million could be reduced. Ms. Loper asked that
in considering fiscal note costs, members bear in mind the
cost of a life. Senator Rieger suggested that fiscal notes
should show anticipated revenue resulting from the higher
fine associated with a class C felony. Co-chairman Halford
concurred. Senator Sharp observed that new efforts take
time to implement. Fiscal notes evidence addition of 16 new
positions scattered throughout four departments. He then
questioned whether costs set forth on fiscal notes would
actually accrue in the first year of operation. Co-chairman
Halford again concurred.
In response a question from Senator Rieger regarding the
levy of fines, Juanita Hensley explained that the statutory
fine schedule reflects a minimum fine. At the present time,
the court can levy a maximum fine of up to $5,000 on a
misdemeanor drunk driving conviction. The minimum fine for
a third offense is $1,000. She then attested to judgments
on first offenses ranging from $200 to $500. When queried
further by the Senator concerning changes under the proposed
bill, Mrs. Hensley advised, "In most of these cases I see
the courts only assessing a minimum fine." If a minimum
fine of $5,000 for third-offense felony drunk driving is
established, the court will require "at least a $5,000 fine"
for the offense.
Discussion of the number of arrests, prosecutions, and
convictions followed. Senator Rieger suggested that the
bill should generate approximately $300.0 in general fund
revenues. Co-chairman Halford suggested that at a 50%
collection rate the legislation should generate "half a
million dollars . . . ." He then voiced need for the
Legislative Finance Division to review fiscal note
assumptions and develop revenue projections based on both
assumptions and fine increases. The Co-chairman then
directed that the bill be held in committee pending receipt
of a fiscal note reflecting anticipated revenues. Senator
Sharp also asked that Legislative Finance review the Dept.
of Corrections fiscal note for possible reduction associated
with implementation of the new effort.
HB 191
CS FOR SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 191(FIN)
An Act relating to the management and disposal of state
land and resources; relating to certain remote parcel
and homestead entry land purchase contracts and
patents; and providing for an effective date.
Co-chairman Halford directed that CSSSHB 191(Fin) be brought
on for discussion. REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT, sponsor of
the legislation, came before committee. He explained that
the proposed bill reflects the result of discussions with
staff from the Dept. of Natural Resource in the course of
subcommittee hearings on the budget. It contains cleanup
language and provisions for Title 38 developed from
legislation that died on the floor of the House during the
final days of last session. Representative Therriault
explained that in an attempt to mitigate the impact of
reduced funding, he asked department staff to "go through
their statutes [and] determine those things that were
outdated or just flat didn't make sense any more."
Negotiations and input produced the current bill which
cleans up language directing the agency to do things that no
longer make sense. An additional provision deals with the
land swap along the Glenn Highway to Girdwood. A
controversial section dealing with mining statutes was
removed from the bill and placed in separate legislation.
In response to a question from Senator Rieger,
Representative Therriault explained that the land swap
relates to right of way for a road project.
Responding to a question from Co-chairman Halford regarding
repeals within Sec. 5, Representative Therriault said that
provisions therein would place the land disposal program on
the same footing as other natural resource sale programs.
Whether or not to submit a budget request each year would be
discretionary rather than mandatory. Each budget proposal
would be complete and would request full funding needed to
get land disposals ready for sale, including access roads
and other capital improvements that might be required.
Co-chairman Halford further inquired concerning recreational
cabin-site leases and sales. Representative Therriault
noted that the current recreational cabin permit has never
been utilized because it is not workable as presently
structured. The new proposal is for a five-year lease at
market value with a right of renewal for an additional five
years or outright purchase at fair market value. The survey
is paid for by the purchaser. In response to a question
from Senator Phillips, Representative Therriault advised
that fair market value would be established at the time of
purchase.
NICO BUS, Legislative Liaison, Dept. of Natural Resources,
came before committee in response to a question from Senator
Phillips. He explained that the lease terms would depend
upon the size of the tract of land. Billing could be
monthly, quarterly, or annually. Further discussion of the
operation of the lease program followed. Representative
Therriault directed attention to page 17, lines 23 through
28, and noted provisions that a lease not exceed five years
with the right of an additional five-year extension. At any
time during the lease, the lessee may purchase the remote
cabin site by conducting a survey at that time. Senator
Phillips expressed a preference for front loading the
program by setting the purchase price at initiation of the
lease and obtaining that price in five payments over the
term of the lease with the possibility of a five-year
extension of purchase payments. Representative Therriault
explained that under present bill provisions, an individual
could enter a lease and immediately move into a purchase.
There may be individuals who only wish to lease the property
rather than own it. The current bill accommodates both
approaches.
In his concluding remarks, Representative Therriault
referenced the accompanying positive $225.0 fiscal note.
Co-chairman Halford expressed concern that the positive
revenue "comes from not doing anything because most of the
`shalls' that apply to the commissioner, in existing law,
are changed to `mays'. . . "
End: SFC-95, #63, Side 2
Begin: SFC-95, #65, Side 1
Co-chairman Halford referenced Sec. 24, relating to set-net
leases, and noted that the program was designed to tie lease
permits to nearby communities. The proposed bill appears to
repeal that condition. He then noted repeal of provisions
relating to remote parcels, the homestead program,
subdivision, etc., and advised of increasing discomfort with
the bill. Representative Therriault suggested that Ron
Swanson, Director, Division of Lands, Dept. of Natural
Resource, be asked to come before committee to speak to
technical questions. The Co-chairman concurred. Senator
Zharoff also voiced concern regarding application of Sec. 24
to Bristol Bay, where much traditional use of salmon occurs.
Co-chairman Halford noted that some of the mandatory
provisions within Title 38 were designed to force
administrations who sought to retain all land in state
ownership to do differently. He then directed that the bill
be held in committee for further review.
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 32(FIN)
An Act relating to administrative proceedings involving
a determination of eligibility for a permanent fund
dividend or authority to claim a dividend on behalf of
another; and providing for an effective date.
Co-chairman Halford directed that CSHB 32 (Fin) be brought
on for discussion. MELINDA GRUENING, aide to Representative
Joe Green, came before committee. Senator Rieger MOVED that
CSHB 32 (Fin) pass from committee with individual
recommendations. No objection having been raised, CSHB 32
(Fin) was REPORTED OUT of committee with a fiscal note from
the Dept. of Revenue showing zero cost and revenue of
$121.8. Co-chairmen Halford and Frank and Senator Sharp
signed the committee report with a "do pass" recommendation.
Senators Phillips, Rieger, and Zharoff signed "no
recommendation."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 107(FSH)
An Act relating to restrictions attached to certain
commercial fisheries limited entry permits.
Co-chairman Halford directed that CSHB 107 (FSH) be brought
on for discussion. SENATOR TAYLOR came forward, directed
attention to SCS CSHB 107 (Res), and explained that changes
therein would result in a title change and subsequent
debate. He suggested that the bill is of sufficient
importance that consideration should revert to the version
transmitted by the House.
Senator Taylor acknowledged that problems with the present
limited entry system should be addressed. However, the
proposed bill is not the vehicle in which to do so. If it
is not possible to act on the House bill, Senator Taylor
suggested a two-year extension of the moratorium to prevent
depletion of the resource by "outside boats." That could
occur since the original moratorium is in its wind-down
year, and open season on entry into the dungeness fishery
would result if something is not passed this year.
Co-chairman Halford voiced interest in ensuring that permits
are not transferable. Prior discussion indicates that such
action is too late in coming. While permit entry to
individual fisheries is acceptable, transfer of permits for
money is wrong.
KATHERINE BUCHANAN, aide to Representative Grussendorf, came
before committee. She explained that the original bill
would allow the limited entry commission to use "a few more
tools to decide how to limit the entry . . . ." Original
limited entry provisions were for salmon. The crab fishery
is different. The proposed bill would allow the commission
to base the limited entry permit on the past number of pots
fished, if it chose to do so.
BRUCE TWOMLEY, Limited Entry Commission, Dept. of Fish and
Game, came before committee. He explained that the bill
only applies to fisheries not yet limited. The net fishery
would not be impacted. In response to a question from
Senator Rieger, Mr. Twomley explained that all net salmon
fisheries are 100% limited. He acknowledged that some
herring and other species are not under limited entry
provisions.
Responding to a further comment by Senator Rieger, Mr.
Twomley said that the commission has no authority over
halibut, advising, "The feds have captured that through a
treaty entered some time ago." The proposed bill is
directed to a specific fishery with an existing deadline.
The Southeast dungeness fishery is under a moratorium
authorized by legislation. The moratorium expires in
January. A dungeness fleet is poised outside of Alaska
ready to take advantage of the opening unless the state can
follow through with a plan. The proposed bill represents a
plan and "something near a consensus" that members of fleet,
bureaucrats, and legislators have been able to work out.
This solution would maintain controls and avoid the
threatened invasion.
Ms. Buchanan explained that the Senate Resources version of
the bill would allow permits to be stacked. An individual
fisherman issued a 50-pot permit could purchase additional
permits up to a 300-pot maximum. Co-chairman Halford
reiterated that the change necessitated a title amendment
and suggested that need for new title language be avoided at
this late stage of the session.
Senator Rieger asked if the limited entry commission would
support the change within SCS CSHB 107 (Res) had it not
necessitated a title change. Mr. Twomley explained that the
commission did not oppose the change nor would it oppose
deletion. Of primary interest is the bill transmitted by
the House.
Further discussion of the reach of the Senate version
followed.
Senator Zharoff inquired concerning additional tools
provided to the commission by the proposed bill. Mr.
Twomley referenced ability to limit growth in fisheries
which are not now limited. He spoke specifically to
fisheries consisting of a large variety of people fishing at
different levels of participation and cited the Southeast
dungeness fishery as an example.
In response to an additional question from Senator Zharoff
concerning public input, Mr. Twomley assured that maximum
public input would be guaranteed under existing law. Any
proposal would have to be put before the public and proceed
through the "entire process."
Senator Zharoff asked if the bill would impact sea urchin or
sea cucumber fisheries. Mr. Twomley acknowledged that both
the House and Senate versions could encompass those areas.
Discussion followed between Senator Rieger and Mr. Twomley
regarding limited entry permit transfer procedures and laws
governing transfer. Mr. Twomley said that Alaska law
generally controls because transfer does not occur until or
unless the limited entry commission approves the transfer.
He acknowledged limited intrusion of federal law.
Senator Zharoff MOVED for passage of CSHB 107 (FSH) with
individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal
note. No objection having been raised, CSHB 107 (FSH) was
REPORTED OUT of committee with a zero fiscal note from the
Dept. of Fish and Game. Senator Rieger and Senator Zharoff
signed the committee report with a "do pass" recommendation.
Co-chairman Halford and Senators Phillips and Sharp signed
"no recommendation."
RECESS
Co-chairman Halford announced that the meeting would be
recessed at this time prior to commencement of work on HB 78
and HB 217. The meeting was recessed at approximately 10:55
a.m. and scheduled to reconvene at 12:30 p.m.
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