Legislature(1995 - 1996)

03/07/1996 08:05 AM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                            
                         March 7, 1996                                         
                           8:05 a.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Jeannette James, Chair                                         
 Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chair                                         
 Representative Joe Green                                                      
 Representative Ivan Ivan                                                      
 Representative Brian Porter                                                   
 Representative Caren Robinson                                                 
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Ed Willis                                                      
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 * HOUSE BILL NO. 532                                                          
 "An Act relating to determination by executive branch agencies of             
 the costs of reviewing, adopting, amending, and repealing                     
 regulations."                                                                 
                                                                               
      - HEARD AND HELD                                                         
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 348                                                            
 "An Act requiring that all official interviews with children who              
 are alleged to have been abused or neglected be videotaped or                 
 audiotaped."                                                                  
                                                                               
      - HEARD AND HELD                                                         
                                                                               
 * HOUSE BILL NO. 110                                                          
 "An Act relating to the confidentiality of certain information in             
 motor vehicle records; and providing for an effective date."                  
                                                                               
      - HEARD AND HELD                                                         
 * HOUSE BILL NO. 359                                                          
 "An Act relating to the appointment and confirmation process for              
 members of certain boards, commissions, and similar bodies;                   
 relating to terms of certain appointees; and providing for an                 
 effective date."                                                              
                                                                               
      - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                
 * HOUSE BILL NO. 302                                                          
 "An Act relating to the release of runaway minors from licensed               
 programs for runaway minors and from runaway minor shelters."                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
      - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                
 * HOUSE BILL NO. 372                                                          
 "An Act relating to liquor licenses issued to a restaurant or                 
 eating place; and providing for an effective date."                           
                                                                               
      - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 532                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: COSTS OF ADOPTING REGULATIONS                                    
 SPONSOR(S): STATE AFFAIRS                                                     
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG            ACTION                                        
 02/28/96      2912    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/28/96      2913    (H)   STA, FINANCE                                      
 03/07/96              (H)   STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 348                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: VIDEO/AUDIOTAPE INTERVIEW OF ABUSED MINOR                        
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES, Therriault, Kelly, Toohey                
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG            ACTION                                        
 05/13/95      2173    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 05/13/95      2174    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, HES, JUD, FINANCE                  
 08/26/95              (H)   STA AT  1:00 PM                                   
 08/26/95              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                       
 01/08/96      2383    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KELLY, TOOHEY                       
 01/23/96              (H)   STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 01/23/96              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                       
 02/10/96              (H)   STA AT  2:00 PM CAPITOL 102                       
 02/10/96              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                       
 03/07/96              (H)   STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 110                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: CONFIDENTIALITY OF MOTOR VEHICLE RECORDS                         
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BARNES, Green                                   
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG            ACTION                                        
 01/23/95       116    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/23/95       116    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE                            
 01/25/95       136    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): GREEN                               
 03/10/95       701    (H)   SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED-REFERRALS           
 03/10/95       701    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/10/95       701    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE                            
 03/07/96              (H)   STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 JACK KREINHEDER, Senior Policy Analyst                                        
 Office of the Director                                                        
 Office of Management and Budget                                               
 Office of the Governor                                                        
 P.O. Box 110001                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0001                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4676                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony on HB 532.                          
                                                                               
 SCOTT CALDER                                                                  
 P.O. Box 75011                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska 99704                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 474-0174                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in favor of HB 532.                 
                                                                               
 PAM LA BOLLE, President                                                       
 Alaska State Chamber of Commerce                                              
 217 Second Street, Suite 201                                                  
 Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 586-2323                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in favor of HB 532.                 
                                                                               
 BARBARA COTTING, Legislative Administrative Assistant                         
    to Representative Jeannette James                                          
 State Capitol, Room 102                                                       
 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3743                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided committee substitute for HB 348.              
                                                                               
 DIRK NELSON                                                                   
 P.O. Box 2437                                                                 
 Valdez, Alaska 99686                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 835-5894                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony on HB 348.                          
                                                                               
 HARRY NIEHAUS, Member                                                         
 Guardians of Family Rights                                                    
 P.O. Box 55664                                                                
 North Pole, Alaska 99705                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 488-9328                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to HB 348.            
                                                                               
 CAM CARLSON                                                                   
 P.O.Box 80234                                                                 
 Fairbanks, Alaska 99708                                                       
 Telephone:  Not available.                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to HB 348.            
                                                                               
 JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director                                             
 Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                               
 Department of Public Safety                                                   
 P.O. Box 111200                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4356                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in support of HB 348.               
                                                                               
 DIANE WORLEY, Director                                                        
 Central Office                                                                
 Division of Family and Youth Services                                         
 Department of Health and Social Services                                      
 P.O. Box 110630                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0630                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3191                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in support of HB 348.               
                                                                               
 LAUREE HUGONIN, Executive Director                                            
 Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                        
 130 Seward Street, Suite 501                                                  
 Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 586-3650                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony on HB 348.                          
                                                                               
 STEVE GRUNSTEIN, Member                                                       
 Guardians for Parent's Rights                                                 
 P.O. Box 30604                                                                
 Juneau, Alaska 99803                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 789-7131                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony on HB 348.                          
                                                                               
 SCOTT CALDER                                                                  
 P.O. Box 75011                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska 99704                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 474-0174                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony on HB 348.                          
                                                                               
 GENE OTTENSTROER                                                              
 c/o P.O. Box 1059                                                             
 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737                                                  
 Telephone:  Not available.                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to HB 348.            
                                                                               
 JEANNE' PHIPPS                                                                
 c/o P.O. Box 704                                                              
 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737                                                  
 Telephone:  Not available.                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to HB 348.            
                                                                               
 ELEANOR ROSER, Legislative Administrative Assistant                           
    to Representative Ramona Barnes                                            
 State Capitol, Room 403                                                       
 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3438                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided sponsor statement for HB 110.                 
                                                                               
 JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief                                                        
 Driver Services                                                               
 Division of Motor Vehicles                                                    
 Department of Public Safety                                                   
 P.O. Box 20020                                                                
 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0020                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4361                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony on HB 110.                          
                                                                               
 JAY N. DULANY, Director                                                       
 Central Office                                                                
 Division of Motor Vehicles                                                    
 Department of Public Safety                                                   
 5700 East Tudor Road                                                          
 Anchorage, Alaska 99507-1225                                                  
 Telephone:  (907) 269-5559                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony on HB 110.                          
                                                                               
 BOB MOTZVICH                                                                  
 8801 Spendlove Drive                                                          
 Anchorage, Alaska 99516                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 344-6254                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony on HB 110.                          
                                                                               
 JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director                                             
 Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                               
 Department of Public Safety                                                   
 P.O. Box 111200                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4356                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in support of HB 110.               
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-30, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 0000                                                                   
                                                                               
 The House State Affairs Committee was called to order by Chair                
 Jeannette James at 8:05 a.m.  Members present at the call to order            
 were Representatives Green, Ivan, Porter and James.  Members absent           
 were Representatives Ogan, Robinson and Willis.                               
                                                                               
 CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES announced Representative Ed Willis was                  
 excused from today's meeting.  Representative Scott Ogan and                  
 Representative Caren Robinson would be joining the meeting shortly.           
 HB 532 - COSTS OF ADOPTING REGULATIONS                                      
                                                                               
 The first order of business to come before the House State Affairs            
 Committee was HB 532.                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES explained HB 532 was sponsored by the House State                 
 Affairs Committee.  She called it a simple bill so it did not have            
 a sponsor statement.  She did not plan to move it out of the                  
 committee today.  The Administration was concerned about HB 532's             
 direction.  She explained there were other House Bills, HB 105 and            
 HB 267 that also addressed the issue of regulations.  House Bill              
 105 established a special group to write regulations, and HB 267              
 required the legislature to extend regulations every session.  In             
 an attempt to address the issue of regulatory reform, she asked the           
 Administration last year for information from the agencies                    
 regarding the amount of time and effort spent on writing                      
 regulations.  The Administration tried to get the information, but            
 it was hard to go back and recreate the time and effort put forth.            
 Therefore, HB 532 required each agency that reviewed proposed                 
 regulations and changes of another agency to determine the direct             
 and indirect cost of reviewing and writing the proposed changes               
 incurred.  She was interested in the who, the time and the cost of            
 writing regulations for all agencies.  She said the Administration            
 was concerned about the fiscal note.  She commented she expected a            
 $0 fiscal note.  She explained the tracking would be incorporated             
 into the already existing daily activities.  The Administration               
 would probably be interested in this information as well, so she              
 was looking for cooperation.                                                  
                                                                               
 The record reflected the arrival of Representative Caren Robinson             
 at 8:08 a.m.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0388                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN was concerned about the fiscal notes.  He            
 commented he had seen a wide latitude of fiscal notes from the                
 departments, and explained, if a department liked a bill, the                 
 fiscal note would be low; if a department did not like a bill, the            
 fiscal note would be high.  Therefore, he questioned if the                   
 information would be reliable.  He suggested a targeted audit                 
 approach instead.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 0450                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied an audit was her initial approach.  However,              
 according to the House Legislative Budget and Audit Committee,                
 there was nothing to audit because of the lack of record keeping.             
 House Bill 532 would allow the necessary information to be tracked            
 and kept for future audits.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 0499                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON called the issue a moving target.               
 She explained a department would expend a lot of time and effort              
 when a regulation was needed producing a "picture in time" result.            
 The results were also directly related to the bills the legislature           
 passed that year.  She reiterated HB 532 would provide a picture in           
 time result rather than an overall expended amount of effort.                 
                                                                               
 Number 0564                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied a time study took into consideration her                  
 concerns.  She agreed there probably were times when more                     
 regulations were being written, however, considering everything               
 there was a way to determine a composite amount of time and effort            
 being spent on regulations.  She reiterated, time and effort data             
 was needed to evaluate a more efficient process.                              
                                                                               
 Number 0657                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Chair James what was the goal and               
 purpose of the bill?                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 0662                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied the goal was for true regulation reform in the            
 state of Alaska, which would take approximately four years to                 
 accomplish.  The bill would set aside one year for the information            
 to be collected.  Due to her past experiences and true desires, she           
 believed she could contribute to the solution making process.  She            
 asserted the process must be more efficient, cost less, implement             
 statutes better, cause less distress with the public, and provide             
 accountability.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 0735                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON commented that a moratorium was needed on             
 passing bills.  It was necessary to look at how legislation was               
 passed, for a true fix.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0765                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES agreed with Representative Robinson.  She said a lot of           
 the blame laid in the lap of the legislature because of incomplete            
 pieces of legislation.  Therefore, the Administration had to pick-            
 up the pieces causing friction between the public, the                        
 Administration and the legislature.  It was a two-sided coin, and             
 all had to work together towards the same goal.                               
                                                                               
 Number 0845                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered if guidelines would be issued to help           
 the departments determine a direct and indirect cost.  He said it             
 was vague as written and might produce unreliable data.                       
                                                                               
 Number 0852                                                                   
 CHAIR JAMES replied the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) would           
 be the leader of this project.  She was interested in an overall              
 view of the ratio of time and cost related to regulation writing.             
 The public wanted a reduction in the cost of government operations,           
 but they did not want to cut the education budget, for example.               
 The public wanted to cut the cost of government and this was a way            
 to accomplish that goal. Furthermore, the cost of government                  
 started with the legislature.  She reiterated she agreed with                 
 Representative Robinson that the legislature needed to look at how            
 legislation was passed and to include more accountability.                    
 Moreover, a government crash was eminent, if it was not handled               
 better.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0998                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said benefits and overhead were part of the              
 direct cost involved, and as long as OMB established guidelines he            
 was more comfortable with the tracking process.  He stated the                
 direct cost was a sizeable amount.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1015                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES agreed with Representative Green that the direct cost             
 was a sizeable amount.  She explained it touched every employee in            
 some way.                                                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the first witness in Juneau, Jack Kreinheder,           
 Office of Management and Budget.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1030                                                                   
                                                                               
 JACK KREINHEDER, Senior Policy Analyst, Office of the Director,               
 Office of Management and Budget, Office of the Governor, said the             
 overview of Chair James addressed some of the concerns of the                 
 Administration.  He said the Administration was happy to work with            
 the committee members and the Chair to accomplish the intent of the           
 bill.  The Administration, however, was concerned about the fiscal            
 notes.  The departments indicated they could absorb this as part of           
 the cost of doing business.  The Administration was concerned,                
 however, about the resources necessary to track the data.  The                
 Governor had asked the departments to review their regulations and            
 delete any that were out dated or needed to be revised.  This would           
 take time because legislation passed last year that required                  
 regulations were still being written.  He further said even though            
 the efforts could be absorb, it was not insignificant because of              
 the cumulative efforts over time for each department.  He cited the           
 report at the end of the year would take time.  The Administration            
 agreed the information would be interesting, but believed those               
 resources would be better devoted to working on the regulations               
 directly.  He further addressed Representative Green's concern                
 regarding the direct and indirect cost.  He agreed that OMB would             
 oversee the effort.  He said an amendment would not be necessary to           
 clarify that because the bill left it up to the Administration.  In           
 conclusion, he said, OMB would probably define the terms for the              
 consistent gathering of the information.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1315                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES explained there would not be a fiscal impact for the              
 record keeping required, but there would be a fiscal impact to                
 prepare the report at the end of the year.  She stated plenty of              
 time was given in the bill to prepare a report - June 30, 1997 to             
 December 1, 1997.  It was not mandated, but she expected a norm               
 would be established by the Administration.  She reiterated it was            
 an overall picture involved for analysis.  She said the agencies              
 and Mr. Kreinheder had been very cooperative, but there was no                
 parallel thinking yet.  Both sides needed to give a little.                   
                                                                               
 Number 1426                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN lauded the efforts put forth.  A handle on the           
 cost of regulations was needed.  However, based on personal                   
 experience, record keeping was not always reliable.  He was                   
 concerned about the value of the data.  It was time consuming to              
 track data accurately.  He asked if the state had ever done this              
 before, and wondered if Mr. Kreinheder believed the data would be             
 reliable?                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1501                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KREINHEDER replied according to the Department of Environmental           
 Conservation (DEC) the effort could be accommodated easily within             
 its existing operations.  Permit costs were paid by the permitees             
 so the departments already tracked that information using a project           
 accounting system.  He shared the concern of Representative Green             
 regarding the value of the data.  He wondered if the cost of the              
 regulation projects in FY 97 were worth the time expended.                    
                                                                               
 Number 1567                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered if there was a way, short of a                  
 computer program, so that at the end of the day the data was                  
 recorded.  He was concerned about data being forgotten if it was              
 collected weekly, for example.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1596                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KREINHEDER said the enforcement of the data collection would be           
 left to department managers and supervisors.  He agreed, for a time           
 keeping system to work it needed to be tracked on a daily basis,              
 otherwise it was only rough estimates.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1618                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Kreinheder if he had any suggestions           
 for a method to track the information.  He agreed the information             
 was needed, but he did not know how to get it.                                
                                                                               
 Number 1634                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KREINHEDER replied the survey approach used by the Legislative            
 Audit Division was reasonable.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1690                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER wondered if DEC's permitting process              
 would be necessary to track according to HB 532.                              
                                                                               
 Number 1712                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KREINHEDER replied, "no."  He said he used DEC as an example              
 because it had a system in place already.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1726                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON again wondered what the information would             
 reveal and how it would be used.  She agreed it would be good                 
 information to know, but she did not understand how it would help             
 the legislature change its way of business.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1756                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES responded the question of how the information would be            
 used had yet to be determined.  She explained the basic information           
 collected would be the starting point to analyze the current                  
 system.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1826                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered if a piece of legislation was                
 necessary.  She suggested choosing a few pieces of legislation and            
 backtracking the time and effort required to implement the                    
 regulations.  She said it would be faster and it made more sense.             
                                                                               
 Number 1863                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied backtracking would not yield accurate data.               
 She was distressed because the information was not being tracked              
 now.  In the private sector cost accounting was standard procedure.           
 The government never considered evaluating the cost involved                  
 because time keeping was not recorded.  Furthermore, the lack of              
 data affected the continued passage of HB 105 in the system because           
 she could not determine how many people would be necessary to                 
 establish a regulatory writing group.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 2020                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON reiterated it was still a moving target               
 because certain divisions within departments would be working on              
 regulations based on legislation at that given time.                          
                                                                               
 Number 2055                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied for every program it was a moving target.                 
 Therefore, a preestablished tracking system was needed.  She                  
 understood the concerns of Representative Robinson, and reiterated            
 a cost analysis was the beginning of making any changes.                      
                                                                               
 Number 2112                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KREINHEDER asked the Chair what level of detail she envisioned            
 from the departments?  A grand total?  A breakdown by specific                
 regulatory project?                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 2138                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied she expected the hours by specific regulation             
 or statute.  She also expected the cost incurred relative to time.            
 Everything would be relative to time, she explained.                          
                                                                               
 Number 2193                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER wondered if asking for subjective information           
 was reasonable as well.  He cited explaining a statute that caused            
 the biggest problem while trying to develop a regulation as an                
 example.                                                                      
                                                                               
 The record reflected the arrival of Representative Scott Ogan at              
 8:45 a.m.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 2225                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied it would be in the best interest of the                   
 Administration to include as much narration as possible to help               
 reform the system.  She did not want to mandate that in the bill,             
 however.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2253                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KREINHEDER responded it did not need to be specified in the               
 bill.  He said there had been some discussion about whether a bill            
 was necessary or a request from the committee would suffice, and              
 that in his personal opinion, a bill would be more effective.                 
                                                                               
 Number 2288                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES thanked Mr. Kreinheder for his time.  She reiterated              
 she did not plan to move the bill out of the committee today.  She            
 explained she was willing to include a fiscal note to address the             
 tallying of information at the end of the period, however.                    
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the first witness via teleconference in                 
 Fairbanks, Scott Calder.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2315                                                                   
                                                                               
 SCOTT CALDER said the goal of the 19th Alaska State Legislature               
 should be to help all Alaskans witness the closure of vast fissures           
 between the needs of Alaskans and the activities of the government.           
 He said there was an ongoing and contemporaneous public process to            
 allow action from the people.  The goal should be to restructure              
 the government to act at the people's request.  He said HB 532                
 seemed wasteful on one hand, but it was important the agencies face           
 the true cost and impact of their regulations.                                
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness in Juneau, Pam La Bolle.               
                                                                               
 Number 2393                                                                   
                                                                               
 PAM LA BOLLE, President, Alaska State Chamber of Commerce, said the           
 Chamber supported HB 532.  She explained regulatory reform was the            
 Chamber's second priority, and the information HB 532 would provide           
 was something that the Chamber had been trying to acquire.  She               
 explained the business community was not addressing this issue to             
 the dismay of the Chamber.  A handle on the resources applied was             
 necessary in both the private and public sectors.  Furthermore, the           
 information would help in the analysis of several areas.                      
 TAPE 96-30, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 0000                                                                   
 HB 348 - VIDEO/AUDIOTAPE INTERVIEW OF ABUSED MINOR                          
                                                                               
 The next order of business to come before the House State Affairs             
 Committee was HB 348.                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on Barbara Cotting, Legislative Assistant to               
 Representative James to present the committee substitute.                     
                                                                               
 Number 0021                                                                   
                                                                               
 BARBARA COTTING, Legislative Assistant to Representative Jeannette            
 James, said on February 10, 1996 a subcommittee was formed to                 
 establish an agreement between the legislature and the agencies               
 involved.  The subcommittee members consisted of Representatives              
 James, Porter and Robinson; Elmer Lindstrom, Department of Health             
 and Social Services; Diane Worley, Division of Family and Youth               
 Services; Lt. Chris Stockard, Department of Public Safety; and Anne           
 Carpeneti, Department of Law.  The result was CSHB 348(STA) (9-               
 LS1187/F).                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. COTTING said it was a radical change from the original bill.              
 The original bill, she explained, had a Senate companion that was             
 moving forward, SB 188.  Therefore, the concept had not been                  
 dropped, entirely.                                                            
                                                                               
 MS. COTTING read the title and Section 1 into the record.                     
                                                                               
 "An Act establishing the interagency work group on agency                     
 accountability and child interview methods."                                  
                                                                               
 "Section 1, "INTERAGENCY WORK GROUP AND MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT ON            
 AGENCY ACCOUNTABILITY AND CHILD INTERVIEW METHODS. (a) The                    
 interagency work group to increase agency accountability for and to           
 improve methods of interviewing minors who are alleged to have been           
 abused or neglected is established in the department.  The work               
 group consists of five representatives, whose job description                 
 includes participation in the work group, from the following                  
 departments:                                                                  
                                                                               
 "(1) two persons from the department, one of whom shall be an                 
 employee of the division of family and youth services;                        
 (2) one person from the Department of Public Safety;                          
 (3) one person from the Department of Education; and                          
 (4) one person from the Department of Law.                                    
                                                                               
 "(b) The interagency work group shall prepare a memorandum of                 
 agreement that will guide all participating agencies in their                 
 involvement with interviews of minors who are alleged to have been            
 abused or neglected.  At a minimum, the memorandum of agreement               
 must                                                                          
                                                                               
 "(1) identify the best and most effective methods to establish                
 accountability for those who interview minors who are alleged or              
 suspected to have been abused or neglected;                                   
                                                                               
 "(2) identify the best and most effective methods for (A)                     
 videotaping; (B) audiotaping; (C) team interviews; (D) note taking;           
 (E) documentation; and (F) enforcing file content standards:                  
                                                                               
 "(3) provide for interagency cooperation in (A) initial and                   
 continuing training or education for interviewers, including                  
 education regarding new and updated methods of interviewing minors            
 and regarding new equipment useful for interviewing minors; (B)               
 establishing respect for family members during the interview                  
 process; (C) maintaining family unity during the interview process;           
 and (D) sensitivity to public response and public input;                      
                                                                               
 "(4) focus on increasing agency and interviewer accountability and            
 minimizing negative effects on families; and                                  
                                                                               
 "(5) review the statutory definition of "abuse or neglect" to                 
 determine if the definition leads to uniform and fair results.                
 "(c) The memorandum of agreement shall be made available for review           
 by the legislature and the public.  The work group shall notify the           
 legislature that the memorandum of agreement is available for                 
 review.                                                                       
                                                                               
 "(d) The interagency work group shall meet at the times the members           
 of the work group consider necessary.  At a minimum, the memorandum           
 of agreement must be reviewed and updated in the year following               
 each gubernatorial election year as determined under AS 15.35.010,            
 and must be completed in those years before the beginning of the              
 next regular session of the legislature the following year.  Each             
 revised and updated memorandum of agreement shall be made available           
 to the legislature and the public for review.  The work group shall           
 notify the legislature that the memorandum of agreement is                    
 available for review."                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. COTTING explained Section 2 dealt with the time frame for the             
 initial memorandum of agreement.  The first review would be January           
 1, 1997 followed by another review in two years.                              
                                                                               
 Number 0234                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said HB 348 had come a long way and was               
 moving in a good direction.  She referred the committee members to            
 page 1, line 12, and wondered if "two" persons from the Department            
 of Health and Social Services were necessary.                                 
                                                                               
 MS. COTTING explained in this context the word "department" in AS             
 47.17 meant "the Department of Health and Social Services."                   
                                                                               
 Number 0260                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered about child sexual assault cases             
 in the language on page 2, line 22, "(C) maintaining family unity             
 during the interview process; and"                                            
                                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 0289                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER suggested adding the language, "where                   
 appropriate."                                                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON agreed with Representative Porter.                    
                                                                               
 Number 0295                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked when the agencies would sign the                
 memorandum of agreement.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0310                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied it was not clear when the agencies would sign             
 and review the memorandum of agreement.  She had mixed feelings               
 about including a public review process as well because it was an             
 interagency agreement.  She did not expect a public review would              
 create any changes to the memorandum.  She called it a living                 
 document.  She reiterated the memorandum was an agreement and not             
 a public process.  It did not fall under the Administrative                   
 Procedures Act (APA).                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 0405                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she assumed it would be signed by all            
 the parties by January 1, 1997.  Therefore, the public and the                
 legislature would not review it until after it was signed.                    
                                                                               
 Number 0418                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied that was her understanding also.                          
                                                                               
 Number 0422                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN wondered if the local government agencies            
 were lost in the committee substitute.                                        
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Representative Ivan which local government agency           
 was he referring to?                                                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN replied the tribal organizations in the rural             
 communities, for example.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0455                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES said that issue did not come up in the subcommittee               
 meeting.  She suggested Representative Ivan ask the departments               
 directly.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0473                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON explained this was a state government                 
 agency agreement.  The municipal agencies and the non-profit                  
 agencies would be part of the public review process.                          
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied that was her understanding also.                          
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the first witness via teleconference in                 
 Valdez, Dirk Nelson.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 0515                                                                   
                                                                               
 DIRK NELSON explained he was a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, and           
 a Licensed Marital and Family Therapist.  The oversights were                 
 necessary to oversee the actions of the Division of Family and                
 Youth Services (DFYS).  He said anything to assist in mitigating              
 the harm of DFYS was good.  He explained DFYS had done an admirable           
 job but at the same time there were isolated cases where harm was             
 done.  He said the bill was not a "cure-all."  There were aspects             
 of the bill that could put the state and child into danger of                 
 culpability.  He understood the desire to maintain family unity and           
 called it a good goal, but agreed with earlier comments that there            
 was the potential to go in the other direction.                               
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in                  
 Fairbanks, Harry Niehaus.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0619                                                                   
                                                                               
 HARRY NIEHAUS member of the Guardians of Family Rights, said he               
 opposed CSHB 348(STA).  This was a far cry from what was originally           
 requested of a mandatory videotaping bill.  The Guardians were in             
 full support of SB 188.  He called the committee substitute                   
 worthless.  He said it did not regulate the regulators.                       
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in                  
 Fairbanks, Cam Carlson.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0661                                                                   
                                                                               
 CAM CARLSON said she opposed CSHB 348(STA).  She appreciated the              
 attempt, but the committee substitute was nothing but a piece of              
 "fluff."  It protected the agencies and the agency workers.  The              
 committee substitute hid the accountability as well.  It was                  
 frustrating to not be able to audio/videotape an interview with a             
 child.  She did not see what the problems were and why it was so              
 impossible for the agencies to videotape an interview.                        
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness in Juneau, Jayne Andreen,              
 Department of Public Safety.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0735                                                                   
                                                                               
 JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director, Council on Domestic Violence and           
 Sexual Assault, Department of Public Safety, commended the                    
 committee members for their work done on CSHB 348(STA).  She said             
 the bill would go a long way to provide a greater level of                    
 accountability and coordination between the agencies.  She referred           
 the committee members to page 2, line 22, "(C) maintaining family             
 unity during the interview process; and."  She suggested adding the           
 language, "when appropriate," to ensure the best interest of the              
 child's safety first.                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness in Juneau, Diane Worley,               
 Department of Health and Social Services.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0791                                                                   
                                                                               
 DIANE WORLEY, Director, Central Office, Division of Family and                
 Youth Services, Department of Health and Social Services, commended           
 the committee members for their work done on CSHB 348(STA).  The              
 bill went a long way in moving towards agency accountability.  The            
 Division was extremely pleased to be a part of this agreement and             
 looked forward to working with the other agencies towards an                  
 understanding.  The Division supported family unity whenever                  
 possible, but also wanted to protect the child's interest.                    
 Furthermore, within the Division, there were Indian child welfare             
 act agreements with many of the tribal entities to address the                
 concerns of Representative Ivan.  Moreover, the Division did have             
 the option now and the ability to audio/videotape an interview.  It           
 was working towards improving the availability due to a lack of               
 equipment, however.                                                           
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness in Juneau, Lauree Hugonin,             
 Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault.                       
                                                                               
 Number 0946                                                                   
                                                                               
 LAUREE HUGONIN, Executive Director, Alaska Network on Domestic                
 Violence and Sexual Assault, appreciated the direction of CSHB                
 348(STA).  The best interest of a child was protected when the                
 agencies worked together.  The Network echoed the Council's                   
 concerns regarding family unity.  The Network believed flexibility            
 was needed in that area because there were instances when it was              
 necessary to remove a child from his home.  She asked the committee           
 members to consider language to clarify that issue.  She asked if             
 the memorandum of agreement would recommend changes to the                    
 legislature regarding the definition of "abuse and neglect?"                  
                                                                               
 Number 1032                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied the language was subjective.  It was a                    
 controversial area.  She understood the suggestion to amend the               
 language to include "when appropriate" to maintain the family                 
 unity.  However, family unity should be the focus.  There were                
 other parts of the family included such as aunts and uncles, for              
 example, that would help maintain the unity of a family.                      
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness in Juneau, Steven Grunstein.           
                                                                               
 Number 1172                                                                   
                                                                               
 STEVEN GRUNSTEIN, Member, Guardians for Parent's Rights, said a               
 bill like this was needed.  The bill started off being a protection           
 and a check for the parents.  He said a few years ago he and his              
 son were involved in the system.  He explained he had not seen his            
 son for six years when he returned to Alaska.  His son was only in            
 Alaska for 14 days, and on the 17th day he was told by DFYS he had            
 been abusing his son his entire life.  He asked the DFYS official             
 to further explain and the official responded by stating, "you                
 heard me, how dare you question me."  It was his word against his             
 son's.  He said the bill would be best if both the interview of the           
 child and the parents were required.  He said the parents were                
 helpless.  The system was not currently working to reunite the                
 families.  The original intent of the bill was a safety for those             
 that lived and worked within the framework of the laws.  He said a            
 videotape would be the best for the system.  If there was a sexual            
 assault case something needed to be done, but he generally agreed             
 with Chair James that the focus needed to remain on keeping the               
 family united.  The parents needed help at the legislative level,             
 because there was not any help at the judicial level.  He said he             
 was against abuse in any form - sexual, physical or mental.                   
 However, many children were using it as a weapon against their                
 parents, and that was when an interview on a videotape would be               
 helpful.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1448                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES explained the goal was to videotape the interviews.               
 However due to the diversity within the state and the various areas           
 of concern, the committee substitute was a good compromise.  It               
 moved the agencies towards the accountability that was needed.  The           
 committee substitute also had the possibility of passing the                  
 legislature and being signed by the Governor.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1548                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said Mr. Grunstein was not against the                
 bill.  It was a good start even though it might not be exactly what           
 he wanted.  She wondered if Mr. Grunstein agreed that it was not              
 necessarily appropriate to keep a family together in the case of              
 child sexual abuse.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1589                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. GRUNSTEIN replied, "that is correct."  Furthermore, the                   
 definition of "abuse and neglect" needed to be looked at further.             
 He cited a personal case where he was charged with abuse for                  
 blocking a punch from his son.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1628                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said a definition existed in statute.  It             
 might not be used formally by all the agencies, however.                      
                                                                               
 Number 1640                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES said the language was changed based on a recommendation           
 of the Department of Health and Social Services.                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON reiterated there was a definition, but it             
 might be interpreted differently by the agencies involved.                    
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in                  
 Fairbanks, Scott Calder.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1675                                                                   
                                                                               
 SCOTT CALDER said he agreed with Mr. Niehaus' testimony earlier.              
 The committee substitute was a bit of fluff.  The original bill at            
 least attempted to place some accountability onto the state.  The             
 committee substitute was completely unrelated to its Senate                   
 companion, SB 188.  He said CSHB 348(STA) avoided the issue.  He              
 further said each new Administration had the opportunity to                   
 influence the process and cited various statutes.  He said a code             
 would be the way to address the problem in that it would provide an           
 external citizen review of the foster care system, for example.  He           
 called for citizen reviews in each of the four judicial districts             
 to satisfy Representative Ivan's concerns.  He encouraged him to              
 look at the Citizen Review Panel Act of 1990.  He further called              
 the committee substitute a self study waste of time.                          
                                                                               
 Number 1884                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she agreed with Mr. Calder regarding             
 the Foster Care Review Panel.  She said it was originally funded at           
 $500,000 while last year it was funded at $176,000.  She stated it            
 would not be in the trouble it was today if it had been implemented           
 correctly.  Furthermore, CSHB 348(STA) was another piece of the               
 accountability.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1958                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN reiterated his concerns regarding the native              
 tribal organizations.  He wanted to meet with the Departments to              
 question the existing agreements.                                             
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES suggested to the testifiers who opposed the committee             
 substitute to push for and support SB 188.                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Delta            
 Junction, Gene Ottenstroer.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2042                                                                   
                                                                               
 GENE OTTENSTROER said the committee substitute was nothing.  He               
 said the original bill was good.  The departments did not want                
 videotaping for some unknown reason.  He suggested deleting                   
 language addressing audiotaping.  He said, "a picture was worth a             
 thousand words."  He questioned why two people were needed from the           
 Department of Health and Social Services.  He said they were very             
 intimidating, and he wondered if it was stated as such to take over           
 the meetings, or to cover their "butts."  He preferred mandating a            
 videotaped interview rather than allowing the work group to                   
 identify the best method for the interview.  He said the                      
 departments did not want to be accountable for fear of the                    
 discovery of what was going on behind the scenes.                             
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Delta            
 Junction, Jeanne' Phipps.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 2205                                                                   
                                                                               
 JEANNE' PHIPPS wondered why it took five department people, when              
 all the departments were suppose to have a vested interest in the             
 Department of Health and Social Services.  She said videotaping               
 should be made mandatory any time a public agency was involved in             
 an attack on families.  She said she was against CSHB 348(STA).               
 Furthermore, a constitutional law was needed to make the Department           
 of Health and Social Services, the legislature, and other                     
 departments more accountable for their actions.                               
                                                                               
 Number 2342                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER moved to include the phrase, "unless the                
 nature of the investigation clearly indicates otherwise," on page             
 2, line 22, subsection (c).  (Amendment 1)  Hearing no objection,             
 Amendment 1 was so adopted.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2420                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON suggested an amendment to reduce the number           
 of participants from the Department of Health and Social Services             
 from "two" to "one."                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 2440                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES said it was the intent to include two participants                
 because one would be from the Department of Health and Social                 
 Services, and one would be from the Division of Family and Youth              
 Services.  She deferred to the committee members for further                  
 discussion.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2464                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said testimony indicated the reason two                 
 members were needed from the Department of Health and Social                  
 Services was to represent the family and the child.                           
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-31, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 0000                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said it should be the responsibility of the           
 Commissioner.  The appointed group member from the Department would           
 work closely with the other agencies involved within the                      
 Department.                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Ms. Worley to address the issue.                            
                                                                               
 Number 0073                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. WORLEY said the Department could go either way.  There were               
 arguments for both sides.  There was a perception the Department              
 would overbalance the work group.  Furthermore, Representative                
 Porter was also correct that the bill would impact both the youth             
 services and the family services.  She suggested a person in a                
 policy position, and a person from the field.  She reiterated she             
 was not committed either way, however.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 0198                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON replied the Department of Public Safety,              
 for example, could say the same thing.  The responsibility was to             
 reach out to the affected parties and it was the responsibility of            
 the appointed work group member to bring the perspective of his               
 department to the table.  She said it was not a big issue, but it             
 could be a potential additional cost.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 0279                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON moved to adopt a conceptual amendment to              
 include "one" member from the Department of Health and Social                 
 Services.  Hearing no objection it was so adopted.                            
                                                                               
 Number 0299                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN said he was not against the bill.  He                     
 understood the intent.  He wondered if it would affect the Indian             
 Child Welfare Act (ICWA).                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0399                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. WORLEY replied approximately eight years ago the agreement                
 between the state and ICWA was reexamined.  A number of tribal                
 organizations chose not to sign-on because it was complicated.                
 Consequently, a tribal state collaboration group was formed to                
 discuss the issues surrounding ICWA.  The goal was to make it more            
 workable to meet the needs of all the different tribal                        
 organizations.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 0519                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN wondered if there were outside state agencies             
 involved in the memorandum agreement.  He questioned if there would           
 be any input from the public, or would a statute be needed to make            
 changes?                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0558                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied any changes would require a statute.  The bill            
 mandated the work group reach an agreement between the agencies.              
 The information would then be made available to the legislature and           
 the public.  If the legislature did not agree with the agreement,             
 it could talk to the group or address a change through a statute.             
 Moreover, the bill did not fall under the APA because it was a                
 policy and not a regulation.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0686                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN said he was not against the bill.  He was                 
 concerned about a check and balance in the system.  He called the             
 agencies a powerful force against a family.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 0714                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied the bill demanded the type of accountability              
 Representative Ivan was concerned about.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0733                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said the bill should not be interpreted to              
 mean that a statutory exception was being created to existing                 
 statutes regarding the confidentiality of criminal investigation              
 procedures.  The agreement was available through the freedom of               
 information act anyway.  However, there were exceptions when the              
 process was not in the best interest of justice.  The bill would              
 not change those exceptions.  Furthermore, the conceptual amendment           
 just created an even member group.  He was concerned about ties.              
                                                                               
 Number 0839                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented the fiscal note gave him                       
 "heartburn."                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0887                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied the committee substitute did not have a fiscal            
 note attached.  It needed to be discussed.  She expected a $0                 
 fiscal note, however.                                                         
                                                                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented the bill started with a horrendous             
 fiscal note, and wondered how it could be a $0 fiscal note now.               
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES reiterated it could be a $0 fiscal note, or it could              
 include some money for training or reporting, for example.  She               
 reiterated she was looking for a $0 fiscal note, however.                     
                                                                               
 Number 0900                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated he could not vote in favor of this bill           
 without seeing a fiscal note first.  The first fiscal note called             
 for $3.5 million.  He was concerned the fiscal note would be $0 now           
 because the division was in favor of it.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0946                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES said a fiscal note was necessary before passing the               
 bill forward.  She reiterated a fiscal note did not exist right               
 now.  She reiterated she was looking for a $0 fiscal note because             
 the departments could absorb any cost into their already existing             
 structures.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 0986                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented he was concerned about a fiscal note           
 going to the other extreme.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 0997                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Representative Green if the fiscal note should              
 have a dollar value, and where?                                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN replied, "absolutely."  He did not know where,           
 however.  He said there was more than "tweaking" involved, if a               
 fiscal note could go from $3.5 million to $0.  He said he had to              
 see it before he could support it.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1012                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES responded the original bill mandated all interviews be            
 audio/videotaped.  The committee substitute on the other hand only            
 suggested it through an interagency memorandum of agreement.                  
                                                                               
 Number 1066                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated if it was suggested and not mandated              
 the fiscal note would be somewhere between $3.5 million and $0.               
                                                                               
 Number 1094                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied she understood Representative Green's concern.            
 She was not worried about the original fiscal note, however.  She             
 reiterated the bill would not move forward without a fiscal note.             
                                                                               
 Number 1116                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he supported the notion that the                   
 committee substitute would generate a $0 fiscal note.  It provided            
 the opportunity for increased training, but that was a normal                 
 agency budget function presented through the budget process.  The             
 need for equipment existed before the bill and would continue to              
 exist after the bill.  The agencies knew how to handle that.                  
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN replied, "I fully understand that."                      
                                                                               
 Number 1159                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON also believed there would not be a large              
 fiscal note.  Even if the need for training was included, it would            
 be a small fiscal note.  Furthermore, she referred the committee              
 members to page 2, lines 28 - 30, subsection (c); and page 3, lines           
 3 - 6, and wondered if the language was redundant.  She suggested             
 adding the language, "prior to signing of the agreement," or "at              
 the completion of the agreement" for clarification.                           
                                                                               
 Number 1230                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied she wanted to leave the language alone because            
 there might be a need to present a tentative agreement to the                 
 legislature or to the public.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1254                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON responded she was concerned about the                 
 legislature rejecting the memorandum of agreement after the                   
 completion date of January 1, 1997.  She was concerned about the              
 public complaining about not being able to see the memorandum of              
 agreement before it was signed.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1282                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES stated she wanted a committee substitute from the House           
 State Affairs Committee that would make it through the rest of the            
 process.  She explained she asked the leadership to waive the next            
 committee of referral - the House Judiciary Committee.                        
                                                                               
 Number 1310                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered how the working group would notify           
 the legislature.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1326                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES wondered if the language stated it would be available             
 for review.                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON read, "The work group shall notify the                
 legislature that the memorandum of agreement is available for                 
 review," page 3, lines 5 - 6.                                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES said, if it was available for review, it was up to the            
 legislature to request it.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1351                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER explained the normal process was for an                 
 agency to send a letter to the Chief Clerk's office or the Senate             
 Secretary's office.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1365                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered if the language in Sec. 2, page 3            
 was necessary.                                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Ms. Worley to respond to Representative                     
 Robinson's concerns.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 1387                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. WORLEY agreed the language seemed redundant.  She suggested               
 eliminating the language on page 2 rather than page 3, however.               
                                                                               
 Number 1409                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON moved to delete lines 28 - 30, subsection             
 (c), page 2.  (Amendment 2)  Hearing no objection, Amendment 2 was            
 so adopted.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1445                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Ms. Worley if the language should be            
 clarified regarding the timing of the public review of the                    
 memorandum agreement?                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1452                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. WORLEY replied the issue of accountability was the major                  
 concern here, therefore, a review prior to signing a memorandum of            
 agreement was preferable to eliminate the perception of not                   
 including the public.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1499                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES wondered how long the period of review would be left              
 open.  She wondered if a regulation would be needed to enforce the            
 bill.  She hoped a regulation would not be necessary.  She                    
 reiterated the memorandum of agreement was a policy, and wondered             
 if a policy should be subject to the APA?  She did not think so.              
 A policy was a policy and it should not be subject to a public                
 review process.  She explained she was concerned about setting a              
 precedent.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1608                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON replied she would drop the issue.                     
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES announced the next hearing was scheduled for Saturday,            
 March 9, 1996.  A fiscal note would be attached.                              
 HB 110 - CONFIDENTIALITY OF MOTOR VEHICLE RECORDS                           
                                                                               
 The next order of business to come before the House State Affairs             
 Committee was HB 110.                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on Eleanor Roser, Legislative Administrative               
 Assistant to Representative Ramona Barnes, to present the sponsor             
 statement.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1687                                                                   
                                                                               
 ELEANOR ROSER, Legislative Administrative Assistant to                        
 Representative Ramona Barnes, read the following sponsor statement            
 into the record.                                                              
                                                                               
 "This legislation was introduced at the request of two of my                  
 constituents who had experienced stalking by persons who had                  
 obtained their addresses from the (DMV) through license plate                 
 information.  Additionally, in 1994, confidentiality of license               
 plate information was included in the President's Crime Package.              
                                                                               
 "The intent of the federal legislation (18. U.S.C. 2721) was to               
 protect the personal privacy of persons licensed by states to drive           
 a motor vehicle or persons who register a motor vehicle by                    
 prohibiting disclosure of information on drivers maintained by the            
 state.  This information is only to be disclosed under permissible            
 uses.                                                                         
                                                                               
 "If Alaska is not in compliance with the federal law by September             
 13, 1997, the DMV could be liable for civil fines of $2,500.00 per            
 day and the state could be subject to fines of $5,000.00 per day              
 until compliance is reached.                                                  
                                                                               
 "This bill is supported by the Council on Domestic Violence and               
 Sexual Assault and the Anchorage Police Department.                           
                                                                               
 "I appreciate your consideration of this bill and request your                
 support."                                                                     
                                                                               
 MS. ROSER said she would be happy to answer any questions of the              
 committee members.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1745                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered how HB 210 would affect this bill.           
                                                                               
 Number 1774                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied HB 210 would not affect HB 110.                           
 Number 1785                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES wondered what the language "legitimate interest" meant            
 in the bill.  She cited in previous business expenditures she                 
 needed to research information through the Division of Motor                  
 Vehicles (DMV) using a license plate number.  There were many                 
 reasons why a private individual would have a legitimate interest             
 to research vehicle information.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1883                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ROSER deferred to Juanita Hensley, Department of Public Safety,           
 to answer the question.                                                       
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on Ms. Hensley to join the committee members at            
 the table.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1921                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered if legislation was needed due to             
 the federal requirement.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1940                                                                   
                                                                               
 JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief, Driver Services, Division of Motor                    
 Vehicles, Department of Public Safety, explained HB 110 would bring           
 the state one step closer into compliance with the federal law.               
 The President's Crime Bill required that more vehicle records be              
 confidential.  If the state did not comply with the federal law,              
 the federal law would preempt the state law and DMV would be                  
 subject to a fine.  Therefore, the DMV would either have to violate           
 a federal law and be subject to a fine, or violate a state law.               
 She explained there were provisions to allow the information to be            
 released for legitimate business interests.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2023                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked if a legitimate business interest was specified             
 in the federal law?                                                           
                                                                               
 MS. HENSLEY replied it was defined in the federal law, and left to            
 the states to adopt the regulations.  She cited mechanic or storage           
 companies, towing companies, banks or finance companies, and                  
 insurance companies, as examples that would have a legitimate                 
 business interest.                                                            
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the first witness via teleconference in                 
 Anchorage, Jay Dulany, Department of Public Safety.                           
                                                                               
 JAY DULANY, Director, Central Office, Division of Motor Vehicles,             
 Department of Public Safety, said he was available to answer any              
 policy questions.  He suggested including language to refer to 18             
 U.S.C. 2721 in Section 1.                                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in                  
 Anchorage, Bob Motznick.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2168                                                                   
                                                                               
 BOB MOTZNICK explained in his business a log was kept of all                  
 inquiries made.  He said that was a far better way to handle the              
 stalking concerns.  His company experienced 300 to 500 inquires               
 everyday.  The bill was preventing help to those that needed it               
 because as written it would not allow legitimate business                     
 interests.  He recommended deleting Section 1, and implementing the           
 minimum that the federal law required.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2376                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES commented this was a typical quandary between the state           
 and federal government.  It was distressing, however, to not be               
 able to obtain information from a license plate, if needed.  She              
 agreed the stalking concerns were serious.  She wanted to leave as            
 little as possible to regulations, and put as much as possible into           
 statute.                                                                      
                                                                               
 MS. HENSLEY replied the DMV preferred everything in statute because           
 it was easier to defend its actions.  She would be happy to work              
 with Chair James to incorporate some of her concerns within the               
 limitations of the federal law.                                               
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-31, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 0000                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ROSER explained the bill could include model language from the            
 various states Attorney's General.  The sponsor was not opposed to            
 including all the requirements in a statute.  It was drafted as               
 such to keep it simple.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0020                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. HENSLEY explained the model language was developed last year by           
 the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators because              
 every state was in the same position.                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness in Juneau, Jayne Andreen,              
 Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault, Department of                
 Public Safety.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 0044                                                                   
                                                                               
 JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director, Council on Domestic Violence and           
 Sexual Assault, Department of Public Safety, said the Council                 
 supported HB 110.  It did not have a problem including more in the            
 statute.  The primary issue was to provide safety for the victims             
 of domestic violence and stalking, whose batterers used DMV to                
 locate the victims.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 0070                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES suggested working with Ms. Roser further to develop a             
 committee substitute for the next hearing on Thursday, March 14,              
 1996.                                                                         
                                                                               
 MS. ROSER said she not foresee a problem with that.                           
 CHAIR JAMES announced HB 359, HB 302, and HB 372 would be rolled              
 over to Tuesday, March 12, 1996.  Furthermore, she explained she              
 was filing a resolution opposing the changes in the functions of              
 the federal Office of Veterans Affairs in Anchorage for                       
 Representative Willis because it was too late to file a resolution            
 in the Special Committee on Military and Veterans' Affairs.                   
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 0134                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES adjourned the House State Affairs Committee meeting at            
 10:35 a.m.                                                                    
                                                                               
                                                                               

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