Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/07/1995 08:03 AM STA
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE March 7, 1995 8:03 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Jeannette James, Chair Representative Scott Ogan, Vice-Chair Representative Joe Green Representative Ivan Representative Brian Porter Representative Caren Robinson Representative Ed Willis MEMBERS ABSENT None COMMITTEE CALENDAR * HB 218: "An Act relating to the payment of certain trucking owner-operators." HEARD AND HELD HB 59: "An Act relating to raffles and auctions of certain permits to take big game; and providing for an effective date." PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE * HB 199: "An Act creating the crime of criminal transmission of HIV." HEARD AND HELD HSTA - 03/07/95 * HB 201: "An Act relating to prisoner litigation, post-conviction relief, sentence appeals, amending Alaska Administrative Rule 10, Alaska Rules of Appellate Procedure 204, 208, 209, 215, 521, 603, and 604, and Alaska Rules of Criminal Procedure 11, 33, 35, and 35.1; and providing for an effective date." SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD HSTA - 03/07/95 * HB 2: "An Act allowing courts to require certain offenders as a special condition of probation to complete a boot camp program provided by the Department of Corrections; making prisoners who complete the boot camp program eligible for discretionary parole; providing for incarceration of certain nonviolent offenders in boot camps operated by the Department of Corrections; allowing the Department of Corrections to contract with a person for an alternative boot camp program; creating the Boot Camp Advisory Board in the Department of Corrections; and providing for an effective date." SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD HSTA - 03/07/95 * HB 96: "An Act increasing and requiring annual adjustment of the tax on alcoholic beverages; and providing for an effective date." SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD (* First public hearing) WITNESS REGISTER REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES Alaska State Legislature State Capitol, Room 102 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 Telephone: 465-3743 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided sponsor statement for HB 218 BOB EAKMAN, General Manager and Lobbyist Alaska Independent Truckers Association of Anchorage 200 West 34th Ave, Suite 863 Anchorage, Alaska 99503 Telephone: 276-1934 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 218 TERRY BANNISTER, Attorney Legislative Legal Counsel Legislative Affairs Agency Goldstein Bldg., Rm 405 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 Telephone: 465-2450 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided background information on HB 218 JACK WIEGELE, Vice President Alaska Independent Truckers Association of Anchorage 200 West 34th Ave, Suite 863 Anchorage, Alaska 99503 Telephone: 276-1934 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 218 CHUCK HIGHT, Master at Arms Alaska Independent Truckers Association of Anchorage 200 West 34th Ave., Suite 863 Anchorage, Alaska 99503 Telephone: 276-1934 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 218 RANDY CARR, Chief Wage and Hour Administration Department of Labor P.O. Box 107021 Anchorage, Alaska 99510-7021 Telephone: 269-4914 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information of HB 218 MONTY MONTGOMERY, Assistant Executive Director Associated General Contractors 4041 B Street Anchorage, Alaska 99503 Telephone: 561-5354 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 218 STEVE TROSPER, Business Representative Teamsters Local 959 4300 Boniface Parkway Anchorage, Alaska 99504 Telephone: 269-4191 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 218 JAY EVANS, Owner-Operator Alaska Independent Truckers Association of Anchorage 200 West 34th Ave., Suite 863 Anchorage, Alaska 99503 Telephone: 276-1934 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 218 BILL EVANS, Owner-Operator Alaska Independent Truckers Association of Anchorage, and Owner, Davis Transport, Ltd. 200 West 34th Ave., Suite 863 Anchorage, Alaska 99503 Telephone: 276-1934 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 218 ROXANNA HORSCHEL, Vice Chair of the Legislative Committee of the Associated General Contracts; and Owner, ACME Fence Co. 243 E. 87th Ave. Anchorage, Alaska 99515 Telephone: 522-1155 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 218 CHUCK DAVIS, Owner-Operator Alaska Independent Truckers Association of Anchorage and Owner, Davis Transport, Ltd. 200 West 34th Ave, Suite 863 Anchorage, Alaska 99503 Telephone: 276-1934 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 218 MICHAEL SWALLING, Owner Swalling Construction Co., Inc. P.O. Box 101039 Anchorage, Alaska 99510 Telephone: 272-3461 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 218 REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE Alaska State Legislature State Capitol, Room 108 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 Telephone: 465-4843 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided sponsor statement for HB 59 GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison Alaska Department of Fish and Game P.O. Box 25526 Juneau, Alaska 99811-5526 Telephone: 465-6143 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 59 CAM RADER, Board Member Foundation for North American Wild Sheep 3313 Peace Court Anchorage, Alaska 99501 Telephone: 333-1272 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 59 ROD ARNO, President Alaska Outdoor Council P.O. Box 279 Palmer, Alaska 99645 Telephone: 376-2913 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 59 EDDIE GRASSER, Legislative Director Alaska Outdoor Council P.O. Box 22394 Juneau, Alaska 99802 Telephone: 463-3830 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 59 DUANE BUELL, Member Alaska Wildlife Safeguard 9131 Glacier Ave Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: 789-9785 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 59 BARBARA BRINK, Deputy Director Alaska Public Defender Agency 900 West Fifth Avenue, Suite 200 Anchorage, Alaska 99501 Telephone: 264-4400 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 199 PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 218 SHORT TITLE: PROMPT PAYMENT OF TRUCKING SUBCONTRACTORS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES BY REQUEST JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 03/01/95 531 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 03/01/95 531 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, TRANSPORTATION, JUDICIARY 03/07/95 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102 BILL: HB 59 SHORT TITLE: RAFFLE OR AUCTION OF BIG GAME PERMITS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE,Toohey JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/06/95 36 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 01/16/95 36 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 01/16/95 36 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, RESOURCES, FINANCE 01/20/95 105 (H) COSPONSOR(S): TOOHEY 03/07/95 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102 BILL: HB 199 SHORT TITLE: CRIMINAL TRANSMISSION OF HIV SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) OGAN JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 02/27/95 487 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 02/27/95 487 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY, FINANCE 03/07/95 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102 BILL: HB 201 SHORT TITLE: PRISONER LITIGATION AND APPEALS SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 02/27/95 488 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 02/27/95 488 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY, FINANCE 02/27/95 488 (H) 3 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (LAW, CORR, DPS) 02/27/95 488 (H) 2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (ADM) 02/27/95 488 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER BILL: HB 2 SHORT TITLE: BOOT CAMP FOR NONVIOLENT OFFENDERS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIS,Rokeberg JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/06/95 20 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 01/16/95 21 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 01/16/95 21 (H) STA, JUD, FIN 03/07/95 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102 BILL: HB 96 SHORT TITLE: INCREASING TAX ON ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BROWN,Davies,Elton JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/19/95 81 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 01/19/95 81 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY, FINANCE 01/20/95 106 (H) COSPONSOR(S): ELTON 03/07/95 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 95-23, SIDE A Number 000 The House State Affairs Committee was called to order by Chair Jeannette James at 8:03 a.m. Members present at roll call were Representatives James, Ogan, Green, Porter, Robinson, and Willis. Representative Ivan arrived shortly after roll call. HSTA - 03/07/95 HB 218 - PROMPT PAYMENT OF TRUCKING SUBCONTRACTORS CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES, who introduced HB 218 at the request of the Alaska Independent Truckers, read her sponsor statement: "This bill was filed upon request for the Alaska Independent Truckers, to provide for their prompt payment. However, HB 218 could fill a niche and open a door for an entire category of service providers in Alaska. "We claim we want to create jobs. Here is a way to do it. "There is a group of skilled workers and professionals in our state who fall between the cracks. They are not small businesses. They are not employees. They are each individual operators who provide their own tools, equipment, and expertise for hire. They offer small businesses all the advantages of a single temporary employee, available only when needed, without the red tape and expense of hiring and firing employees, renting or buying equipment, and training operators. "Since these workers are just single independent operators, they do not have a resource of working capitAl and they need to be paid on a regular and prompt basis. "Often these single independent operators do eventually raise enough capital to create their own small businesses. They can be the forerunners for a more healthy business environment in Alaska if we clear their way. HB 218 could be the start." Number 030 CHAIR JAMES added that, although this is a truckers bill, she has talked to a number of other independent providers of services who would like to see this bill passed so they can be paid promptly, since "this is their pay check." The blank CS for HB 218, work draft 9-LS0352/G, was the working draft for the committee meeting. Number 067 BOB EAKMAN, General Manager and Lobbyist for the Alaska Independent Truckers Association of Anchorage, gave a history of the independent owner-operators, stating they fell through the cracks when laws were passed in 1986 requiring the prime contractor and the subcontractor to be paid within seven days, but failing to address or protect the independent owner-operator. This means the independent trucker's credit is always in jeopardy because he often is not paid in time to meet his own bills and payments. It also means that sometimes safety considerations get dropped if truckers cannot afford to keep their trucks in compliance with safety requirements. Number 161 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN referred to lines 7 and 8 of page 2 of the blank CS working draft and asked if a trucker could possibly end up submitting three or four bills in a given month. Number 180 MR. EAKMAN said this was possible, but they agree to not bill more than twice a month on a given job. If a trucker has more than one job, it is up to him to keep it straight. Number 197 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to lines 13 through 15, page 2 of the working draft, asking whether the 1/2 percent per month interest on the unpaid balance applies only to the actual days which the payment is late. Number 226 MR. EAKMAN answered normal practice must be followed, charging 1/2 percent per month or 18 percent per annum, not fractionalizing it for partial months. Number 245 TERRY BANNISTER, Attorney, Legislative Legal Council, Legislative Affairs Agency and drafter of HB 218, agreed to answer questions. REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER asked Ms. Bannister which statute provides the mechanism for contractors and subcontractors to be paid. MS. BANNISTER replied it is AS 36.90.200 through 290, which details contractual and payment requirements for public construction contracts. REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if it required a contract. MS. BANNISTER replied she thought a written contract was required. She added the provisions are different; it goes into more detail than HB 218. Number 297 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER observed an agreement is difficult to enforce without a written contract. Number 305 CHAIR JAMES noted one reason people would become independent owner-operators is because they have not been able to get a job elsewhere, and this would allow them to sell their skills for short jobs and get a paycheck which wouldn't be available to them as employees. She added if these people could be identified, there would probably be a different category of business license for them. Number 347 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN inquired whether a small general contractor could use a chit with blanks to fill in. MR. EAKMAN said it could be done, using a "boiler-plate contract." The problem occurs when a contractor calls with an immediate need for the trucker's service and there is no discussion of wages; this constitutes a verbal contract, which is defensible in Alaska, yet almost impossible to enforce. Number 383 CHAIR JAMES mentioned the requirement to fill out a W-9 form, adding the general contractor should require the contract and other information to be filled out at the same time. Number 398 MR. EAKMAN said what happens is truckers end up on a certified payroll, and they should not. Number 409 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN said he is an independent contractor himself and has been one for 20 years. He does not want the state making statutes which would require the contractors with whom he does business to pay him in 14 days; he believes he has enough business finesse of his own to be sure he has contracts and doesn't want the state involved. It would set a dangerous precedent and start other business people asking for the same protection. There is a certain amount of risk in owning a business, along with the rewards. He added he will not be able to support the bill. Number 442 REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON asked if they were talking about public or state contracts. MS. BANNISTER said they were dealing with contracts in general. CHAIR JAMES added that HB 218 as currently drafted does not just relate to public contracts. Number 455 JACK WIEGELE, Vice President, Alaska Independent Truckers Association, testified via teleconference in favor of HB 218. He stated he has been an owner-operator since 1979, hauling gravel, and he helped draft HB 218. He said it is simple: they need to be paid in a timely manner. The 30, 60, 90, and 120 day payments are not adequate. The whole community should be behind this bill. Number 491 CHARLES HIGHT, Master at Arms, Alaska Independent Truckers Association of Anchorage, testified via teleconference. He said he had been in business since coming to Alaska, and this bill will help truckers support their families by being paid promptly. He added that truckers who ask for payment are afraid they will be black-balled and not called for the next job, and they can't stay in business being paid in this manner. Number 516 RANDY CARR, Chief, Wage and Hour Administration, Alaska Department of Labor, testified via teleconference. He said he had no statement to make but was available to answer questions. Number 527 MONTY MONTGOMERY, Assistant, Executive Director, Associated General Contractors of Alaska, testified via teleconference in opposition to HB 218, stating a prompt pay act is already in effect requiring a contractor to pay within seven days after he is paid. It is poor business practice to respond to a request to work without discussing a commitment of money or time. He added there is no reason a contract can't be sent by FAX machine and signed in advance. Number 553 CHAIR JAMES asked what are the options if a contractor does not hire an independent owner-operator, stating it appears the only choice is to rent a truck, which requires payment in advance, and to hire a driver by payroll, who also gets paid regardless of whether the contractor gets paid. She asked if this was correct. MR. MONTGOMERY replied this was correct. Number 565 STEVE TROSPER, Business Representative, Teamsters Local 959, testified via teleconference. He stated Local 959 supports the bill and also supports the independent truckers who generally are not union members. He raised the issue of safety and noted that when money isn't coming in, safety isn't given enough attention. He added union owner-operators are routinely paid twice a month on their truck expenses and twice a month on the payroll and the independent operators should be given the same consideration. Number 582 JAY EVANS, Owner-Operator, Alaska Independent Truckers Association, testified via teleconference in support of HB 218, saying that independent truckers fall between the cracks under current law and they are just asking for a fair shake. The general public expects the truckers to give them a fair shake, be courteous on the road and have their equipment in safe operating condition. The truckers are more likely to be able to do that if they have received their money in a timely manner. Number 598 BILL EVANS, Owner-Operator, Alaska Independent Truckers Association of Anchorage, and with Eagle Equipment, testified via teleconference in support of HB 218, stating he can't pay his bills if he is operating with a credit situation, nor can he operate safely if he can't get his money. He added this is a real problem for many truckers besides himself. He said he is 100 percent in favor of HB 218. Number 618 ROXANNA HORSCHEL, Vice-Chair of the Legislative Committee of the Associated General Contractors (AGC), and owner of Acme Fence Company in Anchorage, testified via teleconference in opposition to HB 218, though she is absolutely in favor of everyone getting paid in a proper amount of time. She stated she has problems understanding how the state can regulate payment; would the state have inspectors to insure contractors issue a pay check 14 days after receiving an invoice? She said a legal document of some sort needs to be used. She added independent truckers get paid much more than an employee, to cover wages for possibly 30 or 60 days, money to pay their truck payments and insurance, as well as money to support their families. As an independent business person, she knows her capital is eaten up not just for 30 or 60 days but for the entire first year of being in business. She would like to see a formal contract utilized rather than a statute passed to clean up the situation. Number 649 MS. HORSCHEL added that she was the one who put through the prompt payment bill, and she is very sensitive to people who don't get paid on time. In state contracts, the state makes sure the language is appropriate in the contract before a subcontractor is approved. Number 669 CHAIR JAMES asked, if a subcontractor who is not approved under a state contract is not allowed to be hired, how can the independent truckers be hired without approval. MS. HORSCHEL replied that was her point, because she did not know how the state could approve or regulate an independent trucker without a contract. CHAIR JAMES said she did not ask the question to determine how the state would regulate the contract, but as to whether the independent truckers were approved to be on the job in the first place. MS. HORSCHEL replied this is done through brokers, who have a contract with the prime contractor and in turn call out the truckers. So the truckers are almost like employees because they are told where to be and when to be there, though they do have to have their own insurance and maintain their own trucks. She added again that a formal contract, stating what and when they will be paid, is needed between the truckers and their brokers or their prime contractors. Number 702 CHAIR JAMES said it appears to her, if the independent truckers were identified by statute, the only leverage they would have would be to write a letter to the contractor or to the state if the 14 days came and went without their getting paid. This would then be self-enforcing because the contractor would not want these letters sent to the state. TAPE 95-23, SIDE B Number 000 MS. HORSCHEL agreed this could encourage prompt payment, but she stated that option exists currently. She referred to a situation where such letters were written and it still took a long time for the trucker to get the money owed him. She reiterated that without a contract any agreement would be almost impossible to enforce. If a trucker wants to be independent and get more than the hourly wage required in the Davis Bacon Act she thinks that is wonderful, but a formal agreement is needed to allow them an avenue with the state to insure payment. Number 089 CHAIR JAMES asked Ms. Horschel if the brokers would qualify as subcontractors on a state job. MS. HORSCHEL said yes, they do fall under that category. The truckers who now "fall between the cracks" can go to work for a broker who can collect under the prompt payment bill, but the truckers themselves cannot collect under the prompt payment bill. Number 113 CHUCK DAVIS, Owner-Operator, Alaska Independent Truckers Association of Anchorage, and Owner of Davis Transport Ltd., testified via teleconference, stating there is a lack of understanding about how the owner-operators do business with the contractors and subcontractors in Alaska. Truckers do not have FAX machines in their trucks. They are called on cellular phones in their trucks and respond sometimes four or five times in one day without an opportunity to negotiate pay rates or pricing. Their business is sporadic and volatile, and prime contractors take advantage of this by stringing them out for three or four weeks without paying them. Even if they do reach an understanding for a pay rate, it sometimes changes during the course of a job. Number 174 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Davis if he hired out to a broker. MR. DAVIS replied he did, even though he tried to avoid it because of the difficulties of collecting payment. CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Davis to explain what a broker is. Does he have his own trucks too? Is he paid by a percent of what the trucker makes? MR. DAVIS replied it is very complex. The idea is for a general contractor to be able to make one phone call and get up to 50 or 60 trucks. Brokers exist mainly to assure fulfillment of minority quotas on state jobs; a broker can exploit a minority partner to fill the quota. CHAIR JAMES asked if a special license is required to be a truck broker. MR. DAVIS said he was not aware of one. Number 210 MICHAEL SWALLING, President of Swalling Construction, testified via teleconference in opposition to HB 218. He is a private subcontractor and has been in Alaska 30 years. He stated the prompt payment bill eliminated a lot of problems with payment of subcontractors. He can see where independent truckers fall into a crack in the application of that law, but the bill could require him as a subcontractor to pay the trucker before he himself gets paid by the prime contractor. Though the independent truckers have raised some valid issues, he does not believe HB 218 is the mechanism to solve the problems. It is clearly special interest legislation which creates more problems than it solves. Number 225 CHAIR JAMES commented again that if subcontractors were not hiring independent truckers, their only other option would be to rent trucks, paying cash in advance, and put the driver on payroll which requires prompt payment. She said she is not planning to move the bill out today, adding she has had conversations with the Associated General Contractors who are willing to help draft a bill which is more palatable to everybody. Number 244 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he could not support the bill in its present form. He has problems with the idea of a different standard for prompt payment for truckers versus contractors. If a trucker wants to be in an independent business, then he or she should expect the standard business practice of a "net 30." He said he recognizes the safety issue but would like to solve that situation within existing legislation pertaining to subcontractors. He added that going beyond that amounts to negotiating a labor contract or a business agreement through statute, and he does not like to do that. Number 269 CHAIR JAMES clarified that the prompt pay provision requires payment seven days after the contractor gets paid, so it is not "net 30." Number 276 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he knows of no contractor who gets paid earlier than 30 days. MR. EAKMAN said it is his understanding that in the trucking industry most prime contractors require payment every two weeks, and the state generally prefers to pay every two weeks. REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS inquired if this legislation plows new ground, or are there statutes in other states to cover this. MR. EAKMAN replied that some states have a Public Utilities Commission to handle this; other states are not regulated at all. MR. DAVIS suggested that owner-operators need to be recognized as an entity; they could get a truck check once a month and a regular payroll check as an employee, like the Teamsters do. If they can't be listed as employees, maybe they could be listed as subcontractors. Number 349 CHAIR JAMES repeated that she will be working with the AGC and will carry HB 218 over to next Tuesday's meeting. She added for the record, a summary of a telephone call the day before from Ms. Marie Wilson, 591 West 67th Avenue, Anchorage, objecting to HB 218 because of the difficulty in enforcing it. Number 365 CHUCK DAVIS added that people don't realize owner-operators operate on a very marginal percent of profit, 2 percent to be exact, and it is very hard to have any working capital between long payment periods. It is difficult to get contracts in writing because each job is different; some are by the ton, some are hourly, some are by the load. Some operators who complain about this are asked to leave. CHAIR JAMES said after 35 years in accounting she understands all the problems experienced by owner-operators. She said they fall through a crack, though they fill a niche and provide a valuable service not available any other way. She added she does not have an answer but is willing to work with everyone involved to find a solution which addresses safety while allowing people with "the American Dream" to get started with a small initial investment. She recognized they must be careful not to change any existing labor laws. She held the bill over until next Tuesday. HSTA - 03/07/95 HB 59 - RAFFLE OR AUCTION OF BIG GAME PERMITS Number 430 REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, Sponsor, said HB 59 is a "win-win easy decision" for the committee. It extends the program to raise money to promote fish and wildlife enforcement by raffling or auctioning big game tags to include any qualified nonprofit organization that promotes wise use of Alaska's "huntable" resources. The organization would get 10 percent of the proceeds and the rest would go to the fish and game fund, thus generating increased income for the fund. He hopes the positive fiscal note is a modest projection, based on what has been raised in other states with similar auctions and raffles. For example, $415,000 was raised in Nevada in the last ten years, and $170,000 was raised in Wyoming with sheep and moose permits in the last two years. Number 463 GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Alaska Department of Fish and Game, testified in support of HB 59. It would allow the department to raise funds and promote Alaska's wildlife resources without affecting the hunting opportunities for Alaskans. This is done successfully by most of the other western states. Number 475 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Mr. Bruce how many organizations in Alaska would qualify. MR. BRUCE said "a handful." REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE named some: Rocky Mountain Elks, Safari Club, Foundation for North American Wild Sheep (FNAWS), Ducks Unlimited, Alaska Bow Hunters, Alaska Outdoor Council. He added it could include numerous other state organizations. Number 489 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN inquired if a hunter from "outside" winning one of the permits would require a guide. MR. BRUCE said yes, he would have to comply with all other laws governing hunting in Alaska. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if the department or the state would be involved in determining what guide to use. MR. BRUCE answered no, the Department of Fish and Game would not be involved in that. Number 505 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE added it would be a great public relations opportunity for guides, and a way for more prominent guides to donate their services with future referrals in mind. People bidding on the tags are philanthropists who can afford to contribute large sums of money. Number 517 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if the income to other states were gross figures or net after the 10 percent is deducted. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE answered he is speculating the figure is gross and reiterated he believes the $25,000 positive fiscal note is conservative. Number 517 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked to be quickly "walked through the process." REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied tags become available to organizations, then the tag can either be raffled by selling tickets over a period of time or auctioned at an event such as an annual banquet, whichever will yield the most income. The winner is granted the prestigious "Governor's Tag" and then follows the normal process for getting a license and a guide. Number 553 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said in another bill there is a problem with out-of-state people getting licenses and affecting federal contributions. In HB 59, it appears the license is donated. Will the income generated cause the federal government to cut its contribution? REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said he had no information that this has happened in other states. MR. BRUCE concurred, adding that one approach is used for management protection of the resource and the other is not. Number 576 CAM RADER, Board Member of the Foundation for North American Wild Sheep (FNAWS), and member of the Alaska Outdoor Council, the Isaac Walton League, and Ducks Unlimited, testified via teleconference. He is a practicing attorney in Anchorage and holds an assistant guide's license. He echoed the previous testimony in support of HB 59, both for consumptive and nonconsumptive hunters. Recently FNAWS raised $26,000 with an auction; typically they use the money to assist with surveys of hunting areas, which benefits all users. He said he is aware of at least eight organizations which would qualify under the definition as currently drafted. In 1993, Arizona raised $303,000, so Representative Bunde's estimate of $25,000 is "substantially conservative." He believes local guides would be eager to contribute their time to participate in the program. He listed large amounts of money raised in other states for Big Horn Sheep permits, and repeated this bill offers a "win-win" situation. Number 670 ROD ARNO, President, Alaska Outdoor Council, testified via teleconference in support of HB 59, saying it would provide direct revenue to the fish and game fund, increase emphasis on hunting education in Alaska, and increase federal funding in matching funds for licenses by increasing the number of licenses sold. MR. ARNO continued, saying the program would promote the hunting segment of the tourism industry without requiring any additional state funding for advertising. TAPE 95-24, SIDE A Number 043 EDDIE GRASSER, Legislative Director for Alaska Outdoor Council, testified in support of HB 59, saying he is a retired professional guide and has donated many hunts. He agreed significant amounts of money could be raised, and suggested a raffle for a multi-species hunt rather than a single-species permit, throughout clubs in North America. He thought $100,000 could be raised that way. He expressed concern that such money given to the fish and game fund should be earmarked and used by the department to benefit hunters, not nonhunters, since the money will come from hunters. Number 144 DUANE BUELL, representing Alaska Wildlife Safeguard, testified in support of HB 59. He stated that since Alaska Wildlife Safeguard was founded in 1984, there have been over 2000 phone calls to their toll free number in Anchorage, reporting fish and game violations. These callers can be anonymous, and the calls often lead to convictions. Fifty percent of the callers refuse the rewards they are offered, and 60 percent are willing to testify without anonymity. Funds are raised through raffles, and HB 59 would greatly assist those fund-raising efforts. He suggested the bill could include a multi-species raffle provision. Number 230 CHAIR JAMES noted the arrival of Representative Ivan earlier. REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked if there could be a designation as to where the funds go, and expressed concern that general fund allotments would decrease if the bill raises more money. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied the designated fish and game fund is already in existence, and said it is possible general fund money could decrease, but it will decrease anyway as the budget is cut. He added that line 3, page 3, establishes types of organizations that qualify, and promotes "ethical use of game populations for hunting." REPRESENTATIVE PORTER noted that one ethical use for hunting could include nonhunting. CHAIR JAMES agreed the definition of qualifying organizations is not very clear. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said Department of Law came up with that wording to address that exact problem. REPRESENTATIVE IVAN inquired what "ethical use" means. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied it means legal, accepted hunting practices. REPRESENTATIVE IVAN asked if it included "subsistence taking." REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said subsistence would be included, since it involves "killing cleanly and humanely." Number 279 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN moved to pass HB 59 from committee with individual recommendations and accompanying positive fiscal note. There were no objections, so the motion passed. STA - 03/07/95 HB 199 - CRIMINAL TRANSMISSION OF HIV Number 296 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said the intent of HB 199 is simple: A person who knowingly has HIV and commits an act that is known to transmit HIV to others is guilty of a Class A felony. Number 320 BARBARA BRINK, Deputy Director, Alaska Public Defender Agency, testified via teleconference, stating the Alaska Public Defender Agency is concerned about the broad language of HB 199. Though the agency agrees with the goal of protecting the public's health, the prohibited behavior must be described more precisely to assure due process notice. The bill does not define "intimate sexual contact" and thus may not be constitutional. The bill lacks a definition of "reasonable efforts" and criminalizes conduct such as that of transmission of HIV from a mother to her fetus. It also includes organ donors who are already governed by stringent medical standards. It shifts the burden of proof, and only applies to people who are legally married at the time. Number 355 MS. BRINK reiterated she believes the intent of the bill is excellent, but use of the criminal code may not be the best way to achieve this goal. This bill makes it a Class A felony and may discourage people from getting tested for HIV so they won't know what their HIV status is and cannot be held liable; her agency wants to encourage voluntary testing. The spread of communicable disease is a serious issue in Alaska, but laws do not exist to punish people for spreading tuberculosis or hepatitis. Number 380 MS. BRINK continued she believes there are already laws in Alaska which could be utilized for punishing a person who deliberately and recklessly infect other people; for example, assault in the first degree if there was an intention to inflict injury, which would include intentionally transmitting the virus. Recklessly engaging in a harmful behavior is also punishable as assault in the second degree and carries a jail sentence of up to ten years. Given these concerns, she urged this bill not be passed from committee. Number 407 CHAIR JAMES said she "thought we were quite sure what behavior spreads HIV," contrary to Ms. Brink's statement. She also wondered if assault included rape, and whether there had ever been a penalty in the past for people failing to submit to quarantines for such things as smallpox. MS. BRINK replied she was unaware of any penalty for refusal to obey or stay in quarantine status. The assault charges she was speaking of were separate from rape charges; Alaska's assault charges are written so broadly, they in fact could cover consentual activity if that activity recklessly endangered another person. If a person engaged in brutal behavior which could result in HIV transmission, that would be an additional charge. Reckless behavior occurs when a person is aware that his or her behavior could injure another person and does it anyway. Number 454 MS. BRINK continued she did not see a definition of "intimate sexual contact" in the bill, though a companion senate bill does have the definition. In fact, there is still a lot of discussion among health care professionals as to exactly how the HIV virus can be transmitted, via which bodily fluids and via what bodily contact. Medical science is not clear on this; there is even a strong school of thought which doubts whether HIV causes AIDS at all. Number 465 CHAIR JAMES stated HB 59 will be put onto next Tuesday's calendar. She adjourned the meeting at 10:05 a.m.