Legislature(1995 - 1996)

02/14/1995 08:05 AM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                       February 14, 1995                                       
                           8:05 a.m.                                           
 SENATE STATE AFFAIRS MEMBERS PRESENT                                          
 Senator Bert Sharp, Chair                                                     
 Senator Loren Leman                                                           
 Senator Randy Phillips                                                        
 SENATE STATE AFFAIRS MEMBERS ABSENT                                           
 Senator Jim Duncan                                                            
 Senator Dave Donley                                                           
 HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS MEMBERS PRESENT                                           
 Representative Jeannette James, Chair                                         
 Representative Scott Ogan, Vice-Chair                                         
 Representative Joe Green                                                      
 Representative Ivan Ivan                                                      
 Representative Brian Porter                                                   
 Representative Caren Robinson                                                 
 Representative Ed Willis                                                      
 HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS MEMBERS ABSENT                                            
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
 Confirmation Hearings for:                                                    
 Margaret Pugh, Commissioner Designee of Corrections                           
 Pete Hallgren, Personnel Board                                                
 Ronald Otte, Commissioner Designee of Public  Safety                          
 Mark Boyer, Commissioner Designee of Administration                           
 HB 83:"An Act relating to state implementation of                            
 federal statutes."                                                            
 HEARD AND HELD                                                              
 HSTA - 02/14/95                                                               
 *HB 127:"An Act increasing the minimum term of                               
 imprisonment for assaults in the fourth degree                                
 committed against a peace officer, fire                                       
 fighter, correctional officer, emergency                                      
 medical technician, paramedic, ambulance                                      
 attendant, or other emergency responders."                                    
 SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                     
 HSTA - 02/14/95                                                               
 *HB 90:"An Act changing the date that the legislature                        
 convenes in the years following a                                             
 gubernatorial election."                                                      
 SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                     
 HSTA - 02/14/95                                                               
 *HB 130:"An Act relating to agency review of public                          
 comment on the adoption, amendment, and repeal                                
 of regulations; relating to the examination of                                
 proposed regulations, amendments of                                           
 regulations, and orders repealing regulations                                 
 by the Administrative Regulation Review                                       
 Committee and the Department of Law; relating                                 
 to the submission to, and acceptance by, the                                  
 lieutenant governor of proposed regulations,                                  
 amendments of regulations, and orders                                         
 repealing regulations; and requiring agencies                                 
 to make certain determinations before adopting                                
 regulations, amendments of regulations, or                                    
 orders repealing regulations."                                                
 SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                     
 HSTA - 02/14/95                                                               
 *HB 30:"An Act relating to a dress code for public                           
 SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                     
 HSTA - 02/14/95                                                               
 HJR 4:Proposing amendments to the Constitution of                            
 the State of Alaska authorizing the use of the                                
 initiative to amend the Constitution of the                                   
 State of Alaska.                                                              
 SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                     
 HSTA - 02/14/95                                                               
 HJR 1:     Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State            
            of Alaska relating to repeal of regulations by the                 
            SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                            
 (*  First public hearing)                                                     
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
 MARGARET PUGH, Commissioner Designee                                          
 Department of Corrections                                                     
 4500 Diplomacy Drive Suite 207                                                
 Anchorage, AK  99502                                                          
 Telephone: 269-7400                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Interviewed by Committee                                 
 PETE HALLGREN, Personnel Board Member                                         
 Box 1203                                                                      
 Sitka, AK  99835                                                              
 Telephone: 747-6909                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Interviewed by Committee                                 
 RONALD OTTE, Commissioner Designee                                            
 Department of Public Safety                                                   
 450 Whittier Street                                                           
 Juneau, AK  99811                                                             
 Telephone: 465-4362                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Interviewed by Committee                                 
 MARK BOYER, Commissioner Designee                                             
 Department of Administration                                                  
 10th Floor State Office  Building                                             
 Juneau, AK  99811                                                             
 Telephone: 465-2200                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Interviewed by Committee                                 
 ALLEN KINGMAN, Legislative Aide                                               
 Representative Scott Ogan                                                     
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Room 409, Capitol Building                                                    
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone: 465-3878                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 83                            
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
 BILL:  HB 83                                                                
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) OGAN, Porter, Kohring, Toohey, James,           
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 01/13/95        42    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                  
 01/16/95        42    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/16/95        42    (H)   WTR, STA, JUD                                     
 01/25/95       136    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KOHRING, TOOHEY                     
 01/27/95       162    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): JAMES                               
 01/31/95              (H)   WTR AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 408                       
 01/31/95              (H)   MINUTE(WTR)                                       
 02/03/95       242    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KELLY                               
 02/08/95       268    (H)   WTR RPT  CS(WTR) 3DP 4NR                          
 02/08/95       269    (H)   DP: PHILLIPS, WILLIAMS, BARNES                    
 02/08/95       269    (H)   NR: KUBINA, G.DAVIS, MULDER, MACKIE               
 02/08/95       269    (H)   8 FISCAL NOTES (GOV, DCRA, F&G, DHSS)             
 02/08/95       269    (H)   (LAW, DPS, REV, DOTPF) 2/8/95                     
 02/08/95       269    (H)   9 ZERO FN (ADM, DCED, DOC, DOE, DEC)              
 02/08/95       269    (H)   (F&G, LABOR, DNR, DM&VA)  2/8/95                  
 02/08/95       269    (H)   REFERRED TO STA                                   
 02/14/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 519                       
 BILL:  HB 127                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: 120-DAY JAIL: ASSAULT ON OFFICERS                                
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KELLY                                           
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 01/27/95       156    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/27/95       156    (H)   STA, JUD, FIN                                     
 02/14/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 519                       
 BILL:  HB 90                                                                
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) B.DAVIS, Foster, MacLean, Mackie,               
 Nicholia, Elton, Finkelstein, Robinson, Davies, Kubina, James,                
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 01/17/95        51    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/17/95        52    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY                          
 01/27/95       163    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): FOSTER, MACLEAN                     
 01/30/95       180    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): MACKIE, NICHOLIA                    
 01/30/95       180    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): ELTON, FINKELSTEIN                  
 02/01/95       210    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): ROBINSON, DAVIES                    
 02/01/95       210    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KUBINA, JAMES                       
 02/03/95       242    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): TOOHEY                              
 02/09/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 02/14/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 519                       
 BILL:  HB 130                                                               
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KELLY                                           
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 01/27/95       157    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/27/95       157    (H)   STA, JUD, FIN                                     
 02/14/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 519                       
 BILL:  HB 30                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: SCHOOL DRESS CODES                                               
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) B.DAVIS                                         
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 01/06/95        28    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                  
 01/16/95        28    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/16/95        28    (H)   STA, HES                                          
 02/09/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 02/14/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 519                       
 BILL:  HJR  4                                                               
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN, Rokeberg                                
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 01/06/95        17    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                  
 01/16/95        17    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/16/95        17    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY                          
 01/26/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 01/26/95              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                       
 02/07/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 02/07/95              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                       
 02/09/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 02/14/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 519                       
 BILL:  HJR  1                                                               
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PHILLIPS,Rokeberg,Brice,Green                   
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 01/06/95        16    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                  
 01/16/95        16    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/16/95        16    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY                          
 01/18/95        73    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): GREEN                               
 02/07/95              (H)   MINUTE(ARR)                                       
 02/14/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 519                       
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
 TAPE 95-15, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 SENATOR BERT SHARP, Chair of the Senate State Affairs Committee,              
 called the meeting to order at 8:05 a.m. and announced that the               
 purpose of the joint meeting was to hold confirmation hearings for            
 Margaret Pugh as Commissioner of Corrections; Pete Hallgren,                  
 Personnel Board; Mark Boyer as Commissioner of Administration; and            
 Ron Otte as Commissioner of Public Safety.                                    
 Number 034                                                                    
 MARGARET PUGH, Commissioner Designee of Corrections, introduced               
 SENATOR SHARP noted the committee had copies of Commissioner Pugh's           
 resume and asked the committee if there were any questions for her.           
 Number 054                                                                    
 SENATOR LOREN LEMAN asked about the Cleary Settlement and how                 
 Commissioner Pugh saw her department dealing with the mandates                
 which resulted.                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PUGH replied she did not have a copy of the report but           
 had been discussing methods for lowering the cost of incarceration            
 in Alaska.                                                                    
 SENATOR LEMAN said he would get her a copy of the hearing tapes.              
 Number 110                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN said his son had asked why prisoners have           
 cable television and weight rooms when prison is supposed to be a             
 punishment, and stated the public often perceives punishment for              
 criminals is not difficult enough.  He stated he was very impressed           
 with the Point MacKenzie facility and asked Commissioner Pugh if              
 she were supportive of this project and whether she believed                  
 prisoners should continue to be used to upgrade the assets of the             
 farm project there.                                                           
 Number 169                                                                    
 COMMISSIONER DESIGNATE MARGARET PUGH said she believed the program            
 was viable and should be continued, but that expansion of the                 
 project depended upon resources available.  REPRESENTATIVE OGAN               
 stated he was impressed with how motivated  the residents were to             
 stay there and learn skills.                                                  
 Number 199                                                                    
 CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES said she would like to hear Commissioner                
 Pugh's basic philosophy of corrections and crime control, and her             
 intent regarding cooperation with the legislature as they try to              
 solve these problems.                                                         
 Number 219                                                                    
 COMMISSIONER PUGH said she has every intention to cooperate and she           
 looks forward to continuing work with the budget subcommittee.  She           
 stated she believes that corrections is an integral but often                 
 neglected part of the criminal justice system and it exists to                
 enhance the public safety of Alaskans.  She added that, though the            
 department has very little control over who enters the system, she            
 believes there is an obligation to try to make them productive                
 citizens when they get out.                                                   
 Number 270                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER commented that the monumental                     
 supplemental budget from Corrections is because the previous                  
 Administration told the previous commissioner to spend at the                 
 budget level, not the appropriation level.  He noted this is not a            
 good policy to continue, and asked how the Cleary fines will be               
 Number 285                                                                    
 COMMISSIONER PUGH stated this is still being decided.  Plaintiffs             
 are making a case that fines should be used for inmates, and the              
 department is arguing that the funds should be returned to the                
 department for general budget purposes.                                       
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER observed many legislators would be                      
 disappointed if the money went into a "Prisoners Benevolent Fund"             
 or something similar.                                                         
 COMMISSIONER PUGH stated it was not the department's position to              
 create such a fund.                                                           
 Number 295                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER noted management problems have resulted                 
 because there is no "middle-management" level, in the Department of           
 Corrections, to implement policy and asked if this might be                   
 COMMISSIONER PUGH said she would like to change this if funds can             
 be made available, and noted there is not much infrastructure in              
 the department, decisions go directly from policy level to                    
 practitioner level, and this needs her immediate attention.                   
 Number 333                                                                    
 SENATOR SHARP asked Commissioner Pugh if she were represented by a            
 union and what her status in the union would be as a commissioner.            
 COMMISSIONER PUGH replied she was not represented by a union the              
 past four years since she was a legislative employee, and the five            
 years prior to that she was in the exempt category.                           
 Number 346                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN discussed shipping prisoners out of state            
 as a method of saving money, and asked Commissioner Pugh's plans              
 for this or other methods of saving funds.                                    
 COMMISSIONER PUGH replied she viewed shipping prisoners to Arizona            
 as a stop-gap measure, and she thought this should be an                      
 introspective year for the department aimed at developing a                   
 comprehensive plan of dealing with the growing inmate population.             
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked for her personal opinion about shipping            
 prisoners out of state.                                                       
 Number 390                                                                    
 COMMISSIONER PUGH said she would prefer Alaska to be able to meet             
 its own needs and added it is not good for inmates to be away from            
 their own communities and cultures because it makes reintegration             
 more difficult when they are released.  She added development of              
 larger facilities in the more populated areas would decrease the              
 per prisoner, per day cost.                                                   
 Number 439                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN recommended hiring several liaisons, for             
 different regions, who would be more aware of cultural                        
 organizations, needs, and problems.                                           
 COMMISSIONER PUGH replied she is currently interviewing for the               
 position of Rural Coordinator to fulfill just such a role, for all            
 rural areas of the state.                                                     
 Number 472                                                                    
 SENATOR SHARP pointed out he has encountered much dismay with                 
 probation officers "playing phone tag" with prisoners instead of              
 contacting them in person, because of a serious backlog.  He                  
 believes "the worst of the worst" convicted felons are out on                 
 parole, and if anything we ought to keep track of them visually, as           
 often as possible.                                                            
 COMMISSIONER PUGH said she had recently appointed Linda Zaugg as              
 Director of Community Corrections to deal with this problem.                  
 Number 503                                                                    
 SENATOR SHARP said he had heard in Fairbanks that the correctional            
 facility had a partial wing being used just for storage, which                
 could accommodate 10 to 15 more inmates, and asked that this be               
 checked out.  He added he heard one wing of Spring Creek Prison               
 still had only single occupancy, when money had been appropriated             
 to double bunk some of those cells.                                           
 Number 517                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON said since juvenile waivers began,              
 there has been a 200 percent increase in the number of juveniles              
 going into adult facilities, and asked what problems this has                 
 COMMISSIONER PUGH replied we are just beginning to see juveniles              
 sentenced under last year's law and the number will increase.  She            
 added having juveniles in adult facilities is a problem, because              
 they are more likely to be victimized, and because they have less             
 impulse control than adults so dealing with them requires a                   
 different structure.  She suggested separate wings to house them,             
 and mentioned aging inmates present a different set of problems.              
 Number 560                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON inquired about women in detention and           
 the potential for another suit similar to the Cleary suit.                    
 COMMISSIONER PUGH said there had been no resolution; the Cleary               
 suit had called for separate facilities for women offenders by                
 1994, and obviously that has not occurred.  She added that women              
 say they do not get the jobs or the activities available to men,              
 and this has not been addressed satisfactorily either.                        
 SENATOR SHARP thanked Commissioner Pugh and suggested moving on to            
 the next candidate.                                                           
 Number 589                                                                    
 PETE HALLGREN, Member of the Personnel Board, testified via                   
 CHAIR JAMES asked for comments from Mr. Hallgren about why he wants           
 this position.                                                                
 MR. HALLGREN replied that, as his resume states, he has been                  
 involved in government for the past 20 years and is very interested           
 in the process; he enjoys the process and the public service.                 
 Number 605                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked for an explanation as to why the                
 committee was reviewing this candidate when Mr. Hallgren's name had           
 not been sent down by the Governor's Office for confirmation.                 
 SENATOR SHARP replied Mr. Hallgren's name had been read across in             
 the Senate and he was instructed to have hearings.                            
 Number 611                                                                    
 SENATOR LOREN LEMAN noted Mr. Hallgren had been admitted to the               
 Sitka Tribal Bar, and referred to a statement made recently by a              
 candidate for a commissioner position regarding the cultural                  
 ignorance and racial bias of the Supreme Court.  He asked if Mr.              
 Hallgren had made the same observations of the Alaska court system.           
 MR. HALLGREN said he did not know; he had seen many changes over              
 the years in Native self-determination, and the Sitka Tribal Court            
 was a pioneer effort.  He added it was a growing process.                     
 Number 630                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN commented Mr. Hallgren was chairman of the           
 Republican Party and asked if he planned to continue with this                
 MR. HALLGREN replied his confirmation to the Personnel Board would            
 not determine whether he continued with his party position.  He               
 added he had not run for the position, and his continuing in that             
 capacity would depend on how well he did the job.                             
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  asked if there would be a conflict for his              
 MR. HALLGREN said there is always a conflict for his time, and he             
 has the privilege of being involved in a lot of things.                       
 Number 654                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS asked what the Personnel Board does.                 
 MR. HALLGREN replied the board was set up prior to state employees            
 becoming predominantly unionized, so it does not deal with                    
 employees who fall under collective bargaining units.  He continued           
 the Personnel Board deals with about 1,200 non-unionized employees,           
 they approve and disapprove amendments to the personnel roles,                
 consider recommendations for the classified service, and handle               
 some ethics appeals.                                                          
 Number 670                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked if Mr. Hallgren if he was currently             
 sitting on the board.                                                         
 CHAIR JAMES said he had been appointed to the board in June, 1994.            
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Mr. Hallgren about a memorandum he              
 had sent to the Republican Party of Alaska expressing concern over            
 a resolution requesting the Congressional Delegation, Governor, and           
 state Legislators to employ registered Republicans on their exempt            
 MR. HALLGREN replied the memorandum was one which came from the               
 Republican Party at the state convention asking elected Republican            
 legislators to hire registered Republicans as staff members.                  
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Mr. Hallgren if he thought this                 
 should be a requirement on the state level.                                   
 MR. HALLGREN replied Republican Party leaders should hire                     
 TAPE 95-15, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 RONALD L. OTTE, Commissioner Designee, Department of Public Safety,           
 introduced himself and said he had been involved in law enforcement           
 in Alaska for 29 years.                                                       
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER stated he had known Commissioner Otte for a             
 number of years, had worked closely with him and was in favor of              
 his appointment.                                                              
 Number 036                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Commissioner Otte what he had been doing           
 for the year hiatus in his resume.                                            
 COMMISSIONER OTTE explained he spent the time developing his own              
 consulting business and visiting family.                                      
 CHAIR JAMES commented she had extensive conversations with                    
 Commissioner Otte and any questions she had were already answered             
 to her satisfaction.                                                          
 SENATOR SHARP asked when the Governor had appointed Commissioner              
 COMMISSIONER OTTE said he started on December 19, 1994, and had               
 been appointed a week prior to that, and had been on the job since            
 Number 080                                                                    
 SENATOR SHARP asked Commissioner Otte if he had any experience in             
 management audits.                                                            
 COMMISSIONER OTTE replied he had some experience investigating                
 criminal audits.                                                              
 SENATOR SHARP questioned Commissioner Otte about the "wolf                    
 incident" of November 29, 1994, asking whether there had been any             
 contact with the Governor or his staff after the original                     
 assignment directives regarding the investigation, up to the time             
 of the transmittal of the draft to the Governor's Office.                     
 COMMISSIONER OTTE answered he had no conversations with the                   
 Governor.  He added he had one conversation with the Governor's               
 Chief of Staff to clarify exactly what focus he was looking for in            
 the report.                                                                   
 COMMISSIONER OTTE added his concern was that Public Safety not be             
 put in a position to pass judgmental considerations as to whether             
 the wolf and predator control was good or bad.  He wanted to keep             
 the department's involvement simply focused on the incident of                
 November 29, and he reaffirmed this in his conversation with the              
 Chief of Staff.                                                               
 Number 125                                                                    
 SENATOR SHARP asked Commissioner Otte if there were reviews, in               
 oral or printed form, shared between him or any member of the                 
 Governor's staff, primarily Mr. Ayers, Mr. Ramser, or the Governor,           
 regarding any of Public Safety's findings in the three or four                
 drafts done in his department.                                                
 COMMISSIONER OTTE answered there were none by him, but while he was           
 out of town Deputy Commissioner Smith spoke with the Chief of Staff           
 about the report and took it to the Department of Law to insure               
 there would be no problem in releasing it.  He was aware of no                
 discussions prior to that.                                                    
 SENATOR SHARP said he wondered what motivated Commissioner Otte or            
 his staff to proceed through three or four editing processes which            
 continually narrowed the focus of the final report and disregarded            
 or completely reversed many of the findings enumerated in the                 
 initial draft report.                                                         
 Number 150                                                                    
 COMMISSIONER OTTE answered neither Deputy Commissioner Smith nor              
 himself wrote that report.  He added they tried to provide                    
 direction to the investigators working on the report to assure they           
 understand what Public Safety's "marching orders" were from the               
 Governor's Office in terms of what the report should address.  He             
 added he wanted to be sure Public Safety was not put in a position            
 to take a stand on predator or wolf control and he tried to keep              
 them focused on November 29, to determine what went wrong and why             
 the incident appeared as it did.                                              
 Number 170                                                                    
 SENATOR SHARP thanked Commissioner Otte for taking time to meet               
 with him the previous Saturday and said he had "blown away a lot of           
 smoke and established a comfort level" with the wolf incident                 
 investigation.  He asked whether the Governor's original directive            
 regarding the scope and the focus of the project was in writing.              
 COMMISSIONER OTTE answered he wanted to be sure he understood the             
 directive so he sent a memo to the Governor's office on what his              
 department felt the scope of their review should be.  When the                
 Governor released his press release, many of the points identified            
 in that memo were included, so the department used the Governor's             
 news release as their guide on the project.                                   
 SENATOR SHARP requested the original memorandum or written                    
 instructions be made available to him, and said using press                   
 releases for a guide is dangerous.  He added he appreciated the               
 openness of Commissioner Otte and his staff to discuss and provide            
 Number 204                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN said he too had conversations with Commissioner           
 Otte and, therefore, did not have many questions.  He commented the           
 Department of Public Safety was spread over a large area in its               
 responsibility to keep law and order and asked that Commissioner              
 Otte attempt to strengthen the Village Public Safety Officer                  
 SENATOR SHARP asked who in the Department of Law had reviewed the             
 wolf incident report before it was sent to the Governor and whether           
 any changes had been requested.                                               
 COMMISSIONER OTTE answered he believed the Deputy Commissioner had            
 taken the report to Laurie Otto, and that no changes were made and            
 there were no instructions to make changes.  He had the Deputy                
 Commissioner pick up that document personally when Department of              
 Law had indicated the document contained nothing to preclude it               
 from becoming public.                                                         
 Number 236                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN stated he had also talked extensively               
 with Commissioner Otte about this issue and appreciated his                   
 openness and willingness to keep an open door, adding Commissioner            
 Otte had an excellent reputation in his district.                             
 Number 263                                                                    
 SENATOR SHARP thanked Commissioner Otte and suggested moving on to            
 the next candidate, Mark Boyer.                                               
 MARK BOYER, Commissioner Designee of Administration, testified via            
 teleconference, saying he had been on the job since December 19.              
 He said he had not been actively involved with the Governor's                 
 campaign though he supported his candidacy.  He had left his                  
 position as City Manager of Fairbanks November 1, due to a                    
 difference regarding contract terms and was contacted by the                  
 Governor after the election.  He said the Governor felt his                   
 experience bargaining with Unions would be valuable.                          
 Number 312                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Commissioner Boyer if he thought the              
 average wages and benefits of state employees were high, low, or              
 about right.                                                                  
 COMMISSIONER BOYER replied he now had a recently-completed survey             
 to verify his opinion that generally state employees enjoy higher             
 wages than their counterparts in other governments or the private             
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked whether Commissioner Boyer thought the            
 number of represented employees compared to the total of state                
 employees was high, low, or about right.                                      
 COMMISSIONER BOYER answered he sensed the state is over managed and           
 he would be reviewing this, but a simple 10 percent or 15 percent             
 cut would not be adequate.  He added that there is a need for an              
 "aggressively down-sized state work force."                                   
 Number 361                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said his question was aimed at the percentage           
 of the number represented versus the number not represented, not at           
 the total number of the work force.                                           
 COMMISSIONER BOYER replied there are roughly 2,500 state employees            
 not represented out of a total of about 19,000, so clearly the vast           
 majority of state employees are represented by one of the eleven              
 bargaining units.  This poses a level of frustration to any new               
 Administration because existing employees are already represented             
 by binding contracts.                                                         
 Number 387                                                                    
 SENATOR LEMAN asked if the salary survey also included benefits.              
 COMMISSIONER BOYER said it did, in fact the bulk of the report                
 deals with job class comparisons, including wages and all benefits.           
 SENATOR LEMAN referred to Senator Stevens' report from the                    
 bipartisan Commission on Entitlement and Tax Reform, adding he                
 believes the Alaska condition is comparable to the federal                    
 condition in terms of the long-range outlook, except Alaska will              
 probably be in deep trouble sooner.   He asked Commissioner Boyer             
 if he could support the idea of changing Alaska's retirement system           
 to use defined contribution versus defined benefit for new hires.             
 COMMISSIONER BOYER said he was familiar with the argument between             
 defined contribution versus defined benefit, and was encouraging              
 his staff to be creative and expansive in bringing down the cost of           
 wages and benefits.                                                           
 Number 440                                                                    
 SENATOR LEMAN asked Commissioner Boyer if he had any change to                
 investigate the state procurement code to bring down the cost of              
 state purchasing.                                                             
 COMMISSIONER BOYER replied he had not had time to focus any energy            
 on procurement, but he did have a director of General Services in             
 place and planned to begin a review process.  He referred to a list           
 comparing current state purchase contracts with prices at Costco,             
 showing some items cost one-third of what is currently being paid,            
 and said this is a very high priority.                                        
 Number 476                                                                    
 CHAIR JAMES referred to Commissioner Boyer's earlier statement that           
 he supported employees' rights to have a bargaining unit, and his             
 subsequent statement that as an administrator, it is difficult to             
 negotiate because of so many binding contract units.  She continued           
 that although she supports private industry employees rights to               
 bargaining, she believes at a state level it interferes with the              
 legislature's rights to appropriate money for specific jobs and               
 with the people's rights to make decisions although they are the              
 payors.  She asked Commissioner Boyer whether he believed it was in           
 the best interest of the public to allow bargaining units to be set           
 up within municipal, city, and state governments.                             
 Number 500                                                                    
 COMMISSIONER BOYER replied he had previously believed the Public              
 Employees Relations Act should apply to local governments and                 
 school districts.  He added this is not an area available to him in           
 his current position.  He continued he believed in employees'                 
 rights to collectively bargain and there should be finality in that           
 bargaining process, and he is an aggressive proponent of the right            
 to strike as a benefit to both employers and employees.                       
 COMMISSIONER BOYER continued he believes the legislature does have            
 its rights protected with regard to financing wages and benefits by           
 it prerogative to appropriate.                                                
 CHAIR JAMES asked Commissioner Boyer if he saw a difference in                
 collective bargaining between the wages and benefits portion versus           
 the issues of fairness and non-discrimination.                                
 COMMISSIONER BOYER replied they are two different areas, referred             
 to as mandatory terms and conditions of bargaining.  He said he is            
 entrusted to uphold the law and the constitution of Alaska in                 
 bargaining in good faith given the available tools.                           
 Number 532                                                                    
 SENATOR SHARP asked if any major programs in his department will be           
 changed, particularly longevity bonus and pioneer homes.                      
 COMMISSIONER BOYER said he agreed with phasing out the Longevity              
 Bonus Program and supports that effort.  With regard to pioneer               
 homes, he noted they have been changing to an assisted living model           
 which saves money and staffing and he will be looking at combining            
 facilities to achieve economies of scale.                                     
 SENATOR SHARP thanked Commissioner Boyer and asked for a motion to            
 move these nominations from committee.                                        
 Number 574                                                                    
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS moved the committee adopt a letter                     
 confirming appointments of Mark Boyer as Commissioner of                      
 Administration, Ron Otte as Commissioner of Public Safety, Peter              
 Hallgren to the Personnel Board, and Margaret Pugh as Commissioner            
 of Corrections, with individual recommendations.  There were no               
 objections from Senate members, and it was so ordered.  The Senate            
 members were dismissed.                                                       
 Number 585                                                                    
 CHAIR JAMES asked for a motion from the House members, noting such            
 a motion would in no way be a recommendation to vote for or against           
 the proposed candidates.                                                      
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN moved the four nominations be moved from                 
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON requested each candidate be considered                
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN withdrew his motion.                                     
 Number 596                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON moved to forward Margaret Pugh's name to a            
 joint session for consideration as Commissioner of the Department             
 of Corrections.  Hearing no objection, the motion passed.                     
 Number 604                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN moved to forward Peter Hallgren's name to a               
 joint session for consideration for the Personnel Board.                      
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON objected on the basis that the Governor had           
 not submitted Mr. Hallgren's name to the legislature for                      
 CHAIR JAMES noted she had in her office a legal opinion stating Mr.           
 Hallgren was appointed by the previous Governor and the Legislature           
 had the right to confirm him, and she said she would make that                
 legal opinion available.  She called for a vote.  Representatives             
 Green, Ivan, Porter, Ogan, and James voted "yes."  Representatives            
 Robinson and  Willis voted "no."  The motion passed.                          
 Number 627                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER moved that Ron Otte's name be forwarded to a            
 joint session for consideration for Commissioner of Department of             
 Public Safety.  Hearing no objection, the motion passed.                      
 Number 630                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS moved that Mark Boyer's name be forwarded to            
 a joint session for consideration for Commissioner of Department of           
 Administration.  Hearing no objection, the motion passed.                     
 Number 633                                                                    
 CHAIR JAMES called for a brief break.  She called the meeting back            
 to order at 9:40 a.m.                                                         
 HSTA - 02/14/95                                                               
 CSHB 83 - REVIEW OF FEDERALLY MANDATED PROGRAMS                             
 The next order of business was HB 83.                                         
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN testified as sponsor of House Bill 83.              
 He read his sponsor statement:                                                
 "I have introduced HB 83 as a companion bill to HJR 8, "A                     
 Resolution relating to mandates and other conditions imposed on the           
 states by the federal government."  Whereas the Resolution                    
 articulates the resolve of the citizens of this state to stand                
 against further attempts by the federal government to encroach upon           
 our autonomy and rights as a state under the Tenth Amendment to the           
 United States Constitution, this bill provides a simple and                   
 practical modality for taking that stand."                                    
 He added the bill requires commissioners and agency heads to                  
 scrutinize unfunded mandates through the Office of Management and             
 Budget to find out if they are constitutional.  A review would                
 occur every four years under each new Administration.  The bill               
 directs them to look for more cost effective ways to implement the            
 mandate, negotiate with the federal government, or sue the federal            
 government based on the Tenth Amendment states' powers.  He                   
 continued there have been no studies as to what unfunded mandates             
 cost, but Anchorage estimates by the year 2000 the environmental              
 mandates alone will cost the city of Anchorage almost $430 million.           
 There is a fiscal note attached, and it is his hope the bill will             
 save the state money.                                                         
 Number 683                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON noted there are numerous different bills              
 dealing with this same subject and asked if they might be analyzed            
 and possibly consolidated.                                                    
 TAPE 95-16, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 CHAIR JAMES agreed such an evaluation needs to be done.  She added            
 the House Majority has the responsibility to determine which                  
 approach should go forward.  HB 83 will next go to Judiciary and an           
 analysis will be done then, and this bill must be judged on its own           
 merit at this time and not in comparison with other bills.                    
 Number 022                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she had hoped all bills dealing with             
 federal mandates could be studied in a subcommittee to create a               
 uniform package.  She asked Representative Ogan to explain further            
 how his bill would affect federal mandates.                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied his intent was to look, for example, at           
 the Endangered Species Act and its affect on forest products.  He             
 continued the Brady Bill is another example of an unfunded federal            
 mandate demanding costs be absorbed by local police forces.  The              
 bill would scrutinize such mandates to see whether the federal                
 government is exceeding its powers by circumventing states Tenth              
 Amendment powers and placing funding burdens on them.  Each                   
 administration would have the chance to do this using their                   
 specific priorities.                                                          
 Number 094                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER noted that municipal assemblies have similar            
 discussions about what the state is doing to them.  He asked how HB
 83 would save the state money.                                                
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN referred to page 3, lines 21 through 27 of CSHB
 83(WTR) saying the review would determine whether the mandate is              
 consistent with state policy and suited to the states' needs, would           
 recommend ways in which the state program might be altered to more            
 efficiently implement the federal mandate, and would determine the            
 advisability of pursuing a legal challenge to the validity of the             
 mandate.  Hopefully, through a series of cost-effective adjustments           
 and negotiations with the federal government, money could be saved.           
 Number 145                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN asked if Alaska challenged a mandate under this           
 bill, would the state still be required to implement the mandate as           
 the challenge went through the court system.                                  
 CHAIR JAMES said that would require a legal response.                         
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he was sure the answer was yes, that the           
 federal law had supremacy over state law and would remain in effect           
 during the time of a challenge.                                               
 CHAIR JAMES added that is the issue, because many federal laws                
 exceed their authority under the constitution.                                
 Number 179                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS asked how Representative Ogan envisioned             
 the present Regulation Review Committee fitting into this.                    
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN responded he did not know exactly how it would            
 fit in, but that the Office of Management and Budget would review             
 each program with the help of agency heads.                                   
 CHAIR JAMES added that much of the states' distress with mandates             
 comes not from the mandate itself but with the regulations                    
 propagated because of the mandate, and she sees a direct connection           
 between this challenge to federal mandates and the need for                   
 regulation relief and reform.  She noted a need also for an                   
 examination of duplication of services.                                       
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented that Alaska is joining several other           
 states in this effort to challenge the federal government, and                
 asked if the $700,000 cost would be born by Alaska alone and                  
 whether this would create a bias toward some of Alaska's sister               
 states.  He asked if this were a coordinated effort.                          
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN referred the question to his aide Allen                   
 Kingman, who is licensed to practice law in Alaska, noting that               
 Alaska has unique situations and may have to fight some battles               
 alone but it is his intention to join with other states where there           
 is common ground.                                                             
 Number 284                                                                    
 ALLEN KINGMAN, Legislative Aide to Representative Scott Ogan,                 
 stated he had been involved in drafting HB 83 from the beginning,             
 and replied to Representative Green the bill simply provides a                
 review process and does not make decisions on Alaska's ultimate               
 actions on any mandate.  He said it would be appropriate for Alaska           
 to join with other states in suits, though looking at the                     
 appropriateness of mandates for Alaska in particular would be a               
 singular effort.                                                              
 CHAIR JAMES reminded the committee the next meeting will be on                
 teleconference regarding HB 105, and noted the sponsor of HB 130,             
 which is similar to HB 105, is invited to participate.                        
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if anyone would object to moving HB 83              
 from committee at this time.                                                  
 CHAIR JAMES replied that she objected, and she adjourned the                  
 meeting at 10:03 a.m.                                                         

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