Legislature(1995 - 1996)
05/06/1995 09:07 AM House RES
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HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
May 6, 1995
9:07 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Joe Green, Co-Chairman
Representative Bill Williams, Co-Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chairman
Representative Alan Austerman
Representative John Davies
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Irene Nicholia
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Ramona Barnes
Representative Eileen MacLean
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Gary Davis
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HJR 48: Requesting that the Federal Subsistence Board not adopt
the proposed subsistence moose hunting regulations for
the Kenai Peninsula, not adopt any other federal
regulation changes for hunting or fishing on the Kenai
Peninsula, and not adopt the changes in federal
regulations that make a customary and traditional use
determination for certain communities on the Kenai
Peninsula.
CSHJR 48(RES) PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE NAVARRE
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 521
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-3779
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor HJR 48
EDDIE GRASSER, Representative
Alaska Outdoor Council
P.O. Box 73902
Fairbanks, AK 99707
Phone: 466-4262
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 48
ROB BOSWORTH, Director
Division of Subsistence
Alaska Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99802
Phone: 465-4147
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 48
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HJR 48
SHORT TITLE: KENAI PENINSULA SUBSISTENCE PROPOSAL
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) NAVARRE,G.Davis
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
05/02/95 1740 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
05/02/95 1740 (H) RESOURCES
05/05/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124
05/06/95 (H) RES AT 09:00 AM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-66, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Resources Committee was called back to order by Co-
Chairman Joe Green at 9:07 a.m. Members present at the call to
order were Representatives Green, Williams, Ogan, Austerman, and
Davies. Members absent were Representatives Barnes, Kott, MacLean,
and Nicholia.
HJR 48 - KENAI PENINSULA SUBSISTENCE PROPOSAL
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE NAVARRE, PRIME SPONSOR, told committee members
a work draft committee substitute, version K, was drafted to
incorporate changes discussed at the meeting the prior day. He
stated on page 2, the second Resolved was changed to include that
the customary and traditional use determinations not be changed on
a statewide basis until January 1, 1997.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES made a MOTION to ADOPT CSHJR 48(RES),
version K.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there were any objections. Hearing
none, the MOTION PASSED.
Number 080
EDDIE GRASSER, REPRESENTATIVE, ALASKA OUTDOOR COUNCIL (AOC), stated
the change addresses AOC's concerns about the customary and
traditional use process the Federal Subsistence Board (FSB) adopted
and the direction the board was taking at this time. AOC agrees
there has to be a period of time for Alaskans to come to a
resolution to the subsistence issue and the process the FSB is
pursuing will be detrimental to that process. He said the key to
the resolution is the Resolved clauses.
ROB BOSWORTH, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF SUBSISTENCE, ALASKA DEPARTMENT
OF FISH AND GAME (ADF&G), stated the department supports HJR 48.
He said the resolution provides an opportunity for Alaskans to
discuss the subsistence issue further.
(Representatives KOTT and G. DAVIS joined the committee.)
Number 122
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN made a MOTION to AMEND CSHJR 48(RES) on
page 1, line 7, following the word "Peninsula", insert "and the
State of Alaska".
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED for discussion purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN felt if the resolution is good for the Kenai
Peninsula, it is good for the entire state of Alaska. He stated he
supports putting any action by the FSB on hold until Alaskans can
work out a resolution to the subsistence issue. He said he takes
offense in singling out the Kenai Peninsula in CSHJR 48(RES). He
told committee members he cannot support the resolution without the
amendments he is proposing.
Number 206
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN felt the amendment makes the language a little
awkward. He wondered if Representative Ogan would accept a
friendly amendment to the amendment and remove the words "to
several communities on the Kenai Peninsula" and insert "in the
state of Alaska".
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said the way he has it written is to just add
the words "and the state of Alaska".
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN stated the way the line reads is "to several
communities on the Kenai Peninsula and the state of Alaska". He
pointed out that is like saying "in my bedroom and in my whole
house".
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES suggested the words "and elsewhere".
REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN asked if the FSB proposed granting
new subsistence preferences elsewhere in the state.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated there have been other communities having
subsistence preferences granted but not recently.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN pointed out page 1, lines 6-8, say the FSB
has proposed granting new subsistence preferences to several
communities on the Kenai Peninsula. He asked if the FSB has
granted new subsistence preferences elsewhere in the state.
Otherwise, the amendment does not make any sense.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said that is a point well taken.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN WITHDREW his MOTION.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE stated he understands Representative Ogan's
concerns. He said there are concerns in other areas of the state
and that is why the resolution was expanded in the Resolved clause.
He told committee members that currently, while not wholeheartedly
endorsed, CSHJR 48(RES) is supported by the outdoor and recreation
groups. Those groups feel the resolution may not quite go far
enough. He noted in talking with the Alaska Federation of Natives
(AFN), AFN does not like CSHJR 48(RES), as they would like it to be
specific only to the Kenai Peninsula problem. He stressed the
overriding goal now is to try to accomplish what is contained in
the second Resolved clause, which is to take a step back from the
subsistence issue and determine if Alaska can come up with a
consensus in the next year.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE said he does not necessarily oppose the
amendments being proposed but is concerned that the changes may
erode some of the support from people he has talked to among his
rural colleagues who are willing to support the resolution. He
felt if the resolution is made only a statewide resolution, AFN
will not only oppose it but will actively oppose it and the
resolution will become a divisive resolution rather than one with
a goal of bringing Alaskans together.
Number 307
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated there have been other areas of the
state, such as the Copper River and the Katie John case, where
pending actions could be taken. He felt the fact that HJR 33 did
not pass, CSHJR 48(RES) is a good approach to get the federal
government to back off. However, he stressed what is good for the
Kenai Peninsula is good for the rest of the state. He thought it
was hypocritical that the resolution is only focused on the Kenai
Peninsula because it is a state issue.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said he objects to the word hypocritical. He
felt Representative Navarre had done everything other than be
hypocritical. He thought Representative Navarre made a good point
in that it is better to get something done in the hottest area, if
possible, even though it is desired to get something done statewide
ultimately.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE suggested CSHJR 48(RES) be changed on page
1, lines 10 and 11, before the word "may" delete the word "hunting"
on line 10 and delete the words "the Kenai Peninsula and" on line
11. He stated the resolution would then contain statewide
language. He noted when any minor change is made, additional
controversy occurs. He noted the suggested change does not
accomplish all of the changes Representative Ogan desires, but it
does address the issue more on a statewide basis.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE stated CSHJR 48(RES) is attempting to be
both specific to the Kenai Peninsula with respect to comments
before the FSB on the proposed subsistence hunt there and trying to
approach it from a statewide perspective. He said the resolution
originally was specific to the Kenai Peninsula and a number of
people told him that it was a resolution to get him out of hot
water. Initially, that was part of the driving force behind the
resolution. He recognized that, but also recognized his
credibility with respect to the issue was going to make it
difficult to try and find any consensus. He noted with the help of
a number of other people on both sides of the issue, he tried to
draft language that will drive Alaskans to the middle ground and
avoid the divisiveness seen with HJR 33.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE said unless there is broad support and an
ability to step back away from the subsistence issue, it will not
be possible to accomplish anything with CSHJR 48(RES) or any other
resolution brought before the legislature. He expressed concern if
nothing is done, the subsistence issue will go further out of
control and the legislature will not have the opportunity to
address the issue. He felt the time may have already passed to try
and resolve the subsistence issue and he is not sure everyone will
want to come to the table. However, in talking with Lieutenant
Governor Ulmer, he discovered that all sides have agreed to sit
down and talk about the issue.
Number 390
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated subsistence is a war and it is a
war going on throughout Alaska. He said what is going on in the
Kenai Peninsula is a battle specific to a particular area. He
expressed surprise at Representative Ogan's way of trying to turn
CSHJR 48(RES) into a statewide resolution, when the resolution was
originally specific to the Kenai Peninsula or a Kenai Peninsula
battle. He felt if the subsistence war is going to be fought, it
is better to win as many battles as possible. He pointed out if
the battle on the Kenai Peninsula can be won, it is a step in the
right direction.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES thought this was more of a truce and an
attempt to declare a cease fire for a year. He stated he reviewed
the rest of Representative Ogan's language changes and found
similar kinds of problems as found in the first one. The way the
language is constructed, the changes do not make sense. He
expressed support for the language change suggested by
Representative Navarre and felt the language goes an appropriate
distance in addressing Representative Ogan's concerns without doing
some sniping in the process.
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS stated the amendments proposed by
Representative Ogan puts the entire subsistence issue back before
the legislature, similar to HJR 33, and makes the resolution more
contentious. He felt in regard to the entire subsistence issue,
there is a need to find little niches of agreement. He pointed out
if CSHJR 48(RES) can remain as it is, it would be a little plus for
everyone which is what is needed. He thought the fact that the AFN
is lukewarm on the resolution is a positive step and that is the
way the entire subsistence issue is going to get moving.
REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS felt in a resolution, there is need for
something like what has happened on the Kenai Peninsula to create
the focus. He stated there is a need to slow up and use that as a
focus to generate some discussion. He said if the amendments are
approved, the legislature will be back in the same war like HJR 33,
instead of a battle.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN concurred. He thought one of the driving forces
was the skirmish in the Upper Cook Inlet region which will
adversely affect the Kenai area. He observed that is probably why
Representative Ogan was desiring to expand the resolution. He felt
there had been convincing testimony indicating that even
Representative Navarre's suggested language change will be
contentious to some degree. He stated the emotions are as intense
as if the state was in a war and felt if it is possible to cool
down, that is the way to go.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated it is obvious there is not a lot of
support for his proposed amendments.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE stated the AFN will not oppose a resolution
that is specific to the Kenai Peninsula and includes no statewide
language. He said he is hopeful the resolution will be supported
with the proposed change in it. He pointed out if the AFN will not
endorse the resolution, he is hopeful he can get the AFN to not
take an official position against CSHJR 48(RES) but just allow the
resolution to go through the body, allowing members to vote the way
they want, with the AFN asking rural members to vote for or against
it.
REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS said the key word is strategy. The
strategy is to try and get a niche of people in agreement, even if
it is on page 1 instead of the entire book. Perhaps next time it
will be a chapter.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN WITHDREW his MOTION.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN made a MOTION to AMEND CSHJR 48(RES) on page 1,
lines 12-14, delete all material.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated this amendment is proposed because this
is not the first time communities will have been given new
subsistence preferences since the federal management took over the
management of subsistence hunting on federal lands. He stressed it
is an incorrect statement.
Number 538
MR. BOSWORTH stated it is correct to say that this is not the first
time. He noted he does not speak on behalf of the FSB but as an
observer of their process. He said the FSB has two approaches to
customary and traditional findings. The first is a broad scale
approach which is what is being seen on the Kenai Peninsula where
the FSB takes a comprehensive look at customary and traditional
uses. He added that the Kenai Peninsula is the first of the
comprehensive approaches the FSB has scheduled. He noted there are
several more coming down the road.
MR. BOSWORTH told committee members prior to this comprehensive
look at customary and traditional uses, the FSB has made interim
findings. The most recent example is a finding specifically having
to do with musk ox on the Seward Peninsula. In that sense, with an
interim finding for a specific community, for a specific species,
the FSB has made those determinations. He stated as far as taking
a comprehensive look at an area like the Kenai Peninsula, this is
the first time for that.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN clarified that new subsistence preferences have
been given to Glennallen, Kodiak, Sitka, Cantwell, Nenana, Bethel,
Nome, Tok, and other communities. He said this Whereas states this
is the first time that communities have been given new subsistence
preferences and that statement is not entirely correct. He thought
Mr. Bosworth's answer was somewhat nebulous depending on which type
of subsistence was being looked at.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES suggested putting the word "comprehensive"
before the word "new" on page 1, line 12.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN felt if this is a new form of management it
needs to be more accurately described.
MR. BOSWORTH stated the words "comprehensive new subsistence
preferences" as Representative Davies suggested is an accurate
statement.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES proposed to make a FRIENDLY AMENDMENT to the
AMENDMENT leaving the language on page 1, lines 12-14 as is and
insert the word "comprehensive" before the word "new" on line 12.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he would support that friendly amendment.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there were any objections. Hearing
none, the MOTION PASSED.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN made a MOTION to AMEND CSHJR 48(RES) on page 1,
line 14, delete the word "of".
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there were any objections. Hearing
none, the MOTION PASSED.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN made a MOTION to AMEND CSHJR 48(RES) on page 1,
line 10, before the word "may", delete the word "hunting", and on
line 11, delete the words "the Kenai Peninsula and".
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there were any objections. Hearing
none, the MOTION PASSED.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN made a MOTION to MOVE CSHJR 48(RES), as
amended, with attached fiscal note, out of committee with
individual recommendations.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there were any objections. Hearing
none, the MOTION PASSED.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the House Resources
Committee, Co-Chairman Green adjourned the meeting at 9:50 a.m.
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