Legislature(1995 - 1996)

03/14/1996 01:12 PM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                         March 14, 1996                                        
                           1:12 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Joe Green, Co-Chairman                                         
 Representative William K. "Bill" Williams, Co-Chairman                        
 Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chairman                                      
 Representative Ramona Barnes                                                  
 Representative John Davies                                                    
 Representative Pete Kott                                                      
 Representative Don Long                                                       
 Representative Irene Nicholia (via teleconference)                            
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Alan Austerman                                                 
                                                                               
 OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                   
                                                                               
 Representative Gene Kubina                                                    
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 54                                                 
 Encouraging the lessees of Alaska's vast North Slope natural gas              
 reserves to reach agreement to market gas, expressing the                     
 legislature's support for an Alaska North Slope (ANS) gas                     
 transmission pipeline, and requesting the President of the United             
 States and the Governor of the State of Alaska to publicly support            
 and take action that will help expedite the construction of that              
 system.                                                                       
                                                                               
      - PASSED CSHJR 54(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                  
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL 539                                                                
 "An Act changing the name of the Alaska Soil and Water Conservation           
 Board."                                                                       
                                                                               
      - HEARD AND HELD                                                         
                                                                               
 HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION 60                                                     
 Relating to Revised Statute 2477 rights-of-way.                               
                                                                               
      - PASSED CSHJR 60(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                  
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL 469                                                                
 "An Act relating to the University of Alaska and to assets of the             
 University of Alaska; authorizing the University of Alaska to                 
 select additional state public domain land, designating that land             
 as `university trust land,' and describing the principles                     
 applicable to the land's management; and defining the net income              
 from the University of Alaska's endowment trust fund as `university           
 receipts' subject to prior legislative appropriation."                        
                                                                               
      - HEARD AND HELD                                                         
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 537                                                            
 "An Act renaming the division of geological and geophysical surveys           
 in the Department of Natural Resources as the department's division           
 of mining and geology, and revising the duties of the state                   
 geologist within that division; and providing for an effective                
 date."                                                                        
                                                                               
      - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  HJR 54                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: FAVOR TRANS-ALASKA GAS SYSTEM & LNG SALES                        
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KUBINA, Green, Barnes, Navarre,                 
 Mackie, Grussendorf, Phillips, B. Davis, Willis, Sanders, Davies,             
 Robinson, Rokeberg, Ogan                                                      
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-DATE               ACTION                                    
 01/16/96      2453    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/16/96      2453    (H)   O&G, RESOURCES, FINANCE                           
 02/05/96      2633    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): ROBINSON                            
 02/07/96      2666    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): ROKEBERG                            
 02/09/96      2707    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): OGAN                                
 02/13/96              (H)   O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
 02/13/96              (H)   MINUTE(O&G)                                       
 02/13/96              (H)   MINUTE(O&G)                                       
 02/14/96      2749    (H)   O&G RPT  CS(O&G) 3DP 3NR 1AM                      
 02/14/96      2749    (H)   DP: B.DAVIS, OGAN, FINKELSTEIN                    
 02/14/96      2749    (H)   NR: BRICE, G.DAVIS, WILLIAMS                      
 02/14/96      2749    (H)   AM: ROKEBERG                                      
 02/14/96      2749    (H)   FISCAL NOTE (DNR)                                 
 03/13/96              (H)   RES AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
 03/13/96              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                       
 03/14/96              (H)   RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 539                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: NAME CHANGE FOR SOIL AND WATER BOARD                             
 SPONSOR(S): RESOURCES                                                         
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                 ACTION                                    
 03/08/96      3029    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/08/96      3029    (H)   RESOURCES                                         
 03/13/96              (H)   RES AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
 03/13/96              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                       
 03/14/96              (H)   RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
                                                                               
 BILL:  HJR 60                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: RS 2477 HIGHWAY RIGHTS OF WAY                                    
 SPONSOR(S): STATE AFFAIRS                                                     
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                 ACTION                                    
 02/16/96      2790    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/16/96      2790    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, RESOURCES                          
 02/20/96              (H)   STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 02/20/96              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                       
 02/21/96      2823    (H)   STA RPT  5DP 1NR                                  
 02/21/96      2823    (H)   DP: JAMES, PORTER, GREEN, WILLIS,                 
                             OGAN                                              
 02/21/96      2823    (H)   NR: ROBINSON                                      
 02/21/96      2823    (H)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE (STA CMTE/LAA)                   
 02/21/96      2823    (H)   REFERRED TO RESOURCES                             
 03/13/96              (H)   RES AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
 03/13/96              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                       
 03/14/96              (H)   RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 469                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: INCREASE LAND GRANT TO UNIV. OF ALASKA                           
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT, Toohey, Kelly, Davies               
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                 ACTION                                    
 02/02/96      2610    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/02/96      2610    (H)   HES, RESOURCES, FINANCE                           
 02/09/96      2708    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): DAVIES                              
 02/28/96      2943    (H)   HES REFERRAL WAIVED                               
 02/28/96      2943    (H)   REFERRED TO RESOURCES                             
 03/13/96              (H)   RES AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
 03/13/96              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                       
 03/14/96              (H)   RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 TOM VAN BROCKLIN, Legislative Staff                                           
   to Representative Gene Kubina                                               
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 406                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4859                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented sponsor statement on HJR 54.                   
                                                                               
 JOHN LANDRUM, Kenai Region Manager                                            
 Kenai LNG Facility                                                            
 Phillips Petroleum Company                                                    
 P.O. Drawer 66                                                                
 Kenai, Alaska  99611                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 776-6027                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HJR 54.                                     
                                                                               
 BARBARA HUFF-TUCKNESS                                                         
 Teamsters Local 959                                                           
 4300 Boniface Parkway                                                         
 Anchorage, Alaska  99504                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 269-4236                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HJR 54.                                        
                                                                               
 DAN LaSOTA, Assembly Member                                                   
 Fairbanks North Star Borough                                                  
 639 Manchester Loop                                                           
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99712                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 479-0650                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HJR 54.                                        
                                                                               
 MIKE MACY, Coordinator                                                        
 TransAlaska Gas System Environmental Review Committee                         
 750 West Second Avenue, Suite 104                                             
 Anchorage, Alaska  99501-2167                                                 
 Telephone:  (907) 279-8247                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HJR 54.                                     
                                                                               
 JEFF LOWENFELS, President                                                     
 Yukon Pacific Corporation                                                     
 1049 West 5th Avenue                                                          
 Anchorage, AK  99501                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 265-3100                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HJR 54.                                        
                                                                               
 CHERYL SUTTON, Legislative Assistant                                          
    to Representative Bill Williams                                            
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 128                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3424                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented sponsor statement on HB 539.                   
                                                                               
 JEFF HARTMAN, Executive Director                                              
 Alaska Soil and Water Conservation Board                                      
 Department of Natural Resources                                               
 400 Willoughby Avenue                                                         
 Juneau, Alaska  99801-1724                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2495                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 539.                                     
                                                                               
 TOM HARRIS, Chief Executive Officer                                           
 Tyonek Native Corporation                                                     
 1689 C Street, Suite 219                                                      
 Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 272-0707                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HJR 60.                                     
 KATHLEEN DALTON                                                               
 P.O. Box 70681                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 479-6733                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HJR 60.                                     
                                                                               
 BILL PERHACH, Volunteer                                                       
 Alaska Environmental Lobby                                                    
 P. O. Box 34                                                                  
 Denali, Alaska  99755                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 683-1373                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HJR 60.                                          
                                                                               
 JOSEPH HENRI, Chair                                                           
 Finance, Facilities and Land Management Committee                             
 University of Alaska Board of Regents                                         
 9921 Near Point Drive                                                         
 Anchorage, Alaska  99507                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 279-1493                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 469.                                        
                                                                               
 HEATH HILYARD, Student Body Representative                                    
 University of Alaska Fairbanks                                                
 542 Falcon View Street                                                        
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99712                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 457-2236                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 469.                                        
                                                                               
 SUSAN FLENSBURG, Director                                                     
 Bristol Bay Coastal Resource Service Area                                     
    Coastal Management Program                                                 
 P.O. Box 849                                                                  
 Dillingham, Alaska  99576                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 842-2666                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 469.                                     
                                                                               
 WENDY REDMAN, Vice President for University Relations                         
 University of Alaska Fairbanks                                                
 P.O. Box 755200                                                               
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99775-5200                                                 
 Telephone:  (907) 474-7582                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 469.                                     
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-34, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 0001                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN JOE GREEN reconvened the House Resources Committee                
 meeting, recessed the previous day, at 1:12 p.m.  Members present             
 at the call to order were Representatives Green, Williams, Ogan,              
 Davies, Kott, and Long.  Representative Barnes arrived late and               
 Representative Nicholia participated via teleconference.                      
 Representative Austerman was absent.                                          
                                                                               
 HJR 54 - FAVOR TRANS-ALASKA GAS SYSTEM & LNG SALES                          
                                                                               
 Number 0067                                                                   
                                                                               
 TOM VAN BROCKLIN, Legislative Staff to Representative Gene Kubina,            
 sponsor of HJR 54, noted that Representative Kubina would arrive              
 momentarily.                                                                  
                                                                               
 JOHN LANDRUM, Kenai Region Manager, Kenai LNG Facility, Phillips              
 Petroleum Company, testified via teleconference, saying he was                
 responsible for the Phillips/Marathon liquified natural gas (LNG)             
 project.  Started in 1969, the LNG project on the Kenai Peninsula             
 had been in continuous operation for over 26 years, exporting LNG             
 to customers in Japan.                                                        
                                                                               
 MR. LANDRUM specified he was testifying as a technical and business           
 expert regarding the LNG business, saying he was an engineer                  
 associated with LNG in a management role for several years.  His              
 company believed the LNG business was a big, well-developed, global           
 business that was still growing at a significant rate.  "It is also           
 a business that is very safe and environmentally friendly and                 
 therefore can be a very good industrial citizen in the communities            
 where it is located," Mr. Landrum stated.  He said several members            
 of the House Resources Committee had visited the company's plant              
 near Nikiski.                                                                 
                                                                               
 MR. LANDRUM supported a resolution to encourage all parties                   
 involved to move toward developing an economically viable LNG                 
 project to market gas reserves from Alaska's North Slope.  However,           
 Phillips was not necessarily a disinterested third party, he said.            
 They had an interest in some North Slope gas reserves,                        
 specifically, the yet-to-be-developed Point Thompson field.  They             
 also possessed proprietary technology and experience that could be            
 used in such a project and generally sought involvement in LNG                
 projects around the world where they saw economic opportunity.                
                                                                               
 MR. LANDRUM stated, "As far as the proposed resolution is                     
 concerned, we agree that an opportunity to market natural gas in              
 the North Slope as liquefied natural gas in the Pacific Rim should            
 open up early next century.  We also agree that there will be a               
 very strong competition for that market and various projects around           
 the Pacific Rim, especially those where expansions of existing                
 capacity are possible.  A North Slope project has some competitive            
 disadvantages to overcome, particularly the long distances between            
 where the gas is produced and where it could be liquefied and                 
 loaded onto tankers for export.  However, it should be advantageous           
 for the North Slope gas that most of the wells and production                 
 facilities on the North Slope are already in place."                          
 MR. LANDRUM stated that to successfully compete, a means must be              
 found to reduce the investment required for a North Slope gas                 
 project.  He said there was significant potential for lowering this           
 investment requirement and the operating costs of the North Slope             
 project through better technology and maximizing use of existing              
 infrastructure.  He felt it was important for the state to follow             
 the development and issues involved and be prepared to assist, when           
 needed, with expediting permits and approvals, as well as possibly            
 adjusting physical terms to make the project more competitive.                
                                                                               
 MR. LANDRUM said, "However, I would like to raise a bit of caution            
 about the state becoming too involved in dealing directly with the            
 potential customers, especially the Japanese.  It has been our                
 experience that the Japanese customers become uncomfortable with              
 too much direct involvement in a project by the local government."            
                                                                               
 Number 0438                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked what the production capabilities              
 were at Point Thompson.  He asked whether it would be possible to             
 develop Point Thompson as a "jump-start" to get the gas pipeline              
 going, perhaps bringing Prudhoe Bay on later, for example.                    
                                                                               
 MR. LANDRUM responded that was possible.  However, he did not                 
 believe the potential production rate had been determined yet.                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN referred to other projects competing in the               
 world market and asked if those would cause serious problems for              
 Alaska getting into the market later.                                         
                                                                               
 MR. LANDRUM replied that many projects, such as Natuna, were quite            
 advanced.  He suggested the result could be deferral of Alaska's              
 place in the supply and demand forecast.  However, he thought that            
 sometime between the years 2005 and 2010, there should be ample               
 opportunity to market the significant body of LNG in Alaska.                  
                                                                               
 Number 0650                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN apologized for the late start of the meeting and            
 noted that Representative Kubina, prime sponsor of HJR 54, was now            
 present.                                                                      
                                                                               
 BARBARA HUFF-TUCKNESS, Teamsters Local 959, testified via                     
 teleconference, saying there were over 5,000 working Teamsters in             
 Alaska in the private and public sectors, all of whom favored                 
 passage of HJR 54.  They perceived the resolution as a call for               
 action.  Ms. Huff-Tuckness said organized labor and Yukon Pacific             
 Corporation were addressing an agreement to ensure Alaska hire and            
 a plan of action to ensure that rural residents and Native Alaskans           
 would not be excluded from job opportunities.  "This is not the oil           
 pipeline," she said.  "This is an Alaska project by Alaskans and              
 for Alaskans."                                                                
 Number 0899                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. HUFF-TUCKNESS said this particular project was not an                     
 environmental issue but a jobs issue.  She suggested it would                 
 reduce need for governmental aid to individuals and provide much-             
 needed jobs for Alaskans.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1080                                                                   
                                                                               
 DAN LaSOTA, Assembly Member, Fairbanks North Star Borough,                    
 testified via teleconference.  He referred to the assembly's                  
 Resolution 96-009, unanimously passed January 25, 1996, which                 
 supported HJR 54; a copy of that resolution was included in the               
 committee packets.  Mr. LaSota noted that he had also testified               
 before the House Committee on Oil and Gas on an earlier version of            
 HJR 54.  He referred to page 3, line 9, and said he was pleased to            
 see that language had been included.  He said the current version             
 of HJR 54 was most acceptable to the borough.  "The bottom line is            
 that we want the gas to get to the market and for our people to get           
 to work," he concluded.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1163                                                                   
                                                                               
 MIKE MACY, Coordinator, TransAlaska Gas System (TAGS) Environmental           
 Review Committee, testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  He            
 urged the state to consider environmental and socio-economic                  
 impacts.  He discussed local hire and suggested the state conduct             
 a survey to determine whether Alaska currently had the workers                
 necessary for the project.  To the extent there might be a                    
 shortfall, they wanted to see training programs for Alaskans,                 
 especially those from rural areas, so that the project could be               
 built in-house.  "Otherwise, the hundreds of millions of dollars              
 the state will receive from this project will be frittered away on            
 a tidal wave of nonresidents," Mr. Macy stated.  He suggested no              
 village had been more negatively impacted by the oil pipeline than            
 Stevens Village.  He wanted indigenous people along the pipeline to           
 directly benefit from the project.                                            
                                                                               
 MR. MACY stated, "The committee is not enthusiastic about the                 
 inevitable impact of an 800-mile, $10 billion-dollar pipeline and             
 liquefaction facility construction project.  But we have been                 
 encouraged by Yukon Pacific's openness and willingness to respond             
 to our concerns to follow rather than subvert the law and make                
 their project go without a slough of fiscal concessions from the              
 people of Alaska.  We're dismayed that the gas producers are still            
 talking about alternative routes.  There are significant economic             
 and environmental arguments to using as much of the existing                  
 Alyeska TAPS infrastructure as possible.  However, we worry that              
 the producers may see these options as a clever way of avoiding               
 their obligations to remove the oil pipeline and related facilities           
 at the end of its service."                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. MACY continued, "We would prefer not to turn Anderson Bay into            
 an industrial zone but we have three concerns about the [indisc.]             
 a brand-new, state-of-the-art LNG facility to an aging, problem-              
 plagued crude oil terminal.  This is asking for trouble.  The                 
 resulting exclusion zone, the area which has to be evacuated within           
 ten minutes in the event of an LNG spill, would extend all the way            
 to Valdez's waterfront.  The people of Valdez will not stand for              
 that level of risk.  And the federal energy regulatory commission             
 will not allow the commingling of [indisc. -- coughing] nation's              
 domestic oil supply with an LNG export facility.  It's appropriate            
 that the legislature's taking an interest in North Slope gas export           
 issues.  However, we ask the legislature to put its money where its           
 mouth is and make sure that the state agencies have enough                    
 resources to ensure that a gas project is done correctly, with                
 maximum local hire and minimal avoidable impacts."                            
                                                                               
 Number 1389                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. MACY pointed out that a strong regulatory presence lowered                
 insurance rates and prevented unscrupulous companies from getting             
 a competitive advantage over good corporate citizens, and prevented           
 developers from shifting development costs onto the public and its            
 resources, which was the real and unacknowledged national debt.  He           
 therefore urged restoration of full funding to the Department of              
 Environmental Conservation, Department of Fish and Game, Department           
 of Natural Resources and Department of Law.                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said he would have to excuse himself shortly and            
 turn the meeting over to Co-Chairman Williams.                                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS noted there were two people in Kodiak waiting to            
 give testimony on HB 118.  He informed them that no testimony would           
 be taken on that bill that day and that the committee would call              
 them when a hearing was scheduled.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1506                                                                   
                                                                               
 JEFF LOWENFELS, President, Yukon Pacific Corporation, testified               
 that Yukon Pacific was sponsor of the Alaskan gas export project,             
 called the TransAlaska Gas System or TAGS project.  "As most of you           
 know, Yukon Pacific is a business unit of the CSX Corporation, a              
 large, international transportation company headquartered in                  
 Richmond, Virginia," he said.  "CSX has funded Yukon Pacific's                
 successful efforts to permit, promote and advance the TAGS                    
 project."                                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. LOWENFELS said the resolution represented an important                    
 advancement in the evolution of gas sales from Alaska.  Its                   
 language and bipartisan sponsorship demonstrated a recognition of             
 the promise this project held for all Alaskans, he said.  More                
 significantly, it sent a clear message to markets, and to                     
 competitors for those markets, that Alaska's representative body              
 recognized the huge potential of Alaska's North Slope resources.              
 "This is an extremely important threshold in the evolution of the             
 TAGS project," Mr. Lowenfels stated.  "This kind of action by the             
 state of Alaska is exactly the kind of support other countries give           
 our competitive projects."                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. LOWENFELS referred to a newspaper article from the Financial             
 Times, included in the committee packets, and said the Jakarta             
 government had 16 ministers pushing its Natuna project.  The                  
 article showed a project that would cost $40 billion, the same size           
 as Alaska's $13 billion project, seeking to sell gas for $4.50 to             
 $5 to the same markets to which Alaska sought to sell its gas.                
 That Indonesian project was aiming for construction to begin in               
 1997, he said.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1629                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LOWENFELS concluded by saying unanimous passage of the                    
 resolution would contribute to the TAGS project's success strategy            
 by telling Alaska's markets, which Indonesia also sought to serve,            
 that the legislature supported gas sales and that Alaska had a                
 competitive strategy and was willing to act.                                  
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked about the construction scheduled to start             
 in 1997.                                                                      
                                                                               
 MR. LOWENFELS responded that the article from the London-based                
 Financial Times indicated that the Indonesian - Pertamina                   
 partnership's intention was to start construction in 1997 for a               
 project that was, at a minimum, $8 billion more expensive than                
 Alaska's project.  Mr. Lowenfels believed they could therefore get            
 into the marketplace before a less expensive Alaskan project could            
 do so.  "And it is something we all need to be very concerned                 
 about," he concluded.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1690                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN referred to the article and said it appeared              
 that Exxon was willing to compete with whoever stands up.  Buyers             
 were to sign up before construction began next year.  "So, they're            
 obviously aggressively pursuing these customers, which, in my                 
 opinion, would compete with Alaskan customers and interests," he              
 said.                                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. LOWENFELS indicated there was no question that the Natuna                 
 project was competition to Alaska.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1794                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES asked who had submitted the amendment            
 in the packet.                                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said he had great problems with the                     
 amendment, which he thought substantially weakened the bill,                  
 especially the last portion, which removed lines 23 and 24 on                 
 page2.  He asked if the work draft had been adopted as a committee            
 substitute.                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES moved that CSHJR 54, version D, dated                   
 2/16/96, as a work draft.                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN objected for purposes of discussion.  He said             
 he had agreed to move the amendment for sake of discussion, not               
 that he necessarily supported it.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1869                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said the only difference in the work draft              
 was the addition of a local hire statement on page 3.  "And I think           
 we left out the sending a copy to the Governor, and so we thought             
 we should do that, since we're asking him to do some thing," he               
 said.                                                                         
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS asked if there was any objection.  He noted that            
 the amendment was tied into version D.                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN withdrew his objection.                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS noted there was no objection and ordered that               
 work draft D be adopted.  He asked for the wishes of the committee.           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES moved that CSHJR 54 move from committee with            
 individual recommendations, and asked unanimous consent.                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT said he believed the original bill had a             
 fiscal note.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1942                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES said, "I would move it with a zero fiscal               
 note, because there is a fiscal note in here and I don't believe              
 it's necessary."  She asked unanimous consent.                                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS asked if there was any objection.  There being              
 none, CSHJR 54 moved from the House Resources Committee.                      
                                                                               
 HB 539 - NAME CHANGE FOR SOIL AND WATER BOARD                               
                                                                               
 Number 2022                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHERYL SUTTON, Legislative Assistant to Representative Bill                   
 Williams, introduced HB 539 by reading the sponsor statement into             
 the record:                                                                   
 "House Bill 539 was introduced by request of the Soil and Water               
 Conservation Board.  It simply changes the name of the Board to the           
 Natural Resources Conservation and Development Board.  This request           
 has been made for the following reasons:                                      
                                                                               
 MS. SUTTON read, "The declaration of policy for the board is to               
 provide for the development, use and conservation of the farm,                
 forest and grazing land of the state.  The present name does not              
 reflect adequately that the board has a resource development as               
 well as a conservation mission.                                               
                                                                               
 "MS. SUTTON continued, "This name change is in agreement with that            
 of the major federal player in the partnership -- the Natural                 
 Resources Conservation Service.  This organization changed its name           
 from the Soil Conservation Service in the Department of                       
 Agriculture.                                                                  
                                                                               
 MS. SUTTON proceeded, "The board, as well as the local Soil and               
 Water districts, has a close tie with the NRCS Alaska Resource                
 Conservation and Development offices in assisting rural regions of            
 the state in adding value to their available resources.                       
                                                                               
 MS. SUTTON concluded, "The name change will not affect any of the             
 statutory responsibilities of the board.  It has a zero fiscal                
 note."                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2070                                                                   
                                                                               
 JEFF HARTMAN, Executive Director, Alaska Soil and Water                       
 Conservation Board, Department of Natural Resources, testified via            
 teleconference from Aniak.  He stated that the third mission of the           
 board is to advise the commissioner and  make recommendations for             
 a specific action necessary for effective and orderly development             
 of agriculture, forests and grazing land.                                     
                                                                               
 MR. HARTMAN explained the board's present name does not reflect               
 that and the board feels that the name change to the Natural                  
 Resources Conservation and Development Board is appropriate.  The             
 name change will not affect the function and there is no cost.                
                                                                               
 Number 2137                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES inferred that the title appears to change the           
 scope of work of the board.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2181                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HARTMAN responded that the "Natural Resources" part of the name           
 does reflect the Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS), the           
 board's federal partner, in the Department of Agriculture.                    
                                                                               
 MR. HARTMAN explained that the main issue is the "development"                
 aspect and the resources include forestry and agriculture.  Two               
 members of the present board are involved with game ranching and a            
 health farm in the Kenai, and one member is the past president of             
 the Reindeer Herders Association.  The board is involved in many              
 resources other than land and water, and the "Natural Resources"              
 reflects that we work for the Department of Natural Resources and             
 our major federal partner, the Natural Resources Conservation                 
 Service.                                                                      
                                                                               
 MR. HARTMAN said the board is not trying to assume any duties of              
 the Oil & Gas Conservation Commission.  Our emphasis is on rural              
 development and "value added" development of the program, and                 
 specifically, the resource conservation development within the                
 NRCS.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 2274                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT wondered who developed the language in the           
 boards and commissions manual as to the board's function.                     
                                                                               
 MR. HARTMAN was not able to answer that question.  He did say that            
 the Alaska Soil and Water Conservation program will have its 50th             
 anniversary next year.  He said this bill does not change the                 
 Alaska Soil and Water program, nor the district, but the one aspect           
 of the program, the five member advisory board to the commissioner,           
 we are seeking to change, is the name change.                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT suggested looking at the language in the                  
 function because the current board name would serve the function,             
 at least, in the boards and commissions handbook, and might be more           
 appropriate than a new name.                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. HARTMAN said that if the name change is approved, he will draft           
 a new mission statement for the boards and commissions handbook.              
                                                                               
 Number 2328                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. SUTTON explained that the purpose for this particular board is            
 outlined in statute.  She said the language is fairly clear and               
 does seem to fit with their purpose in statute.                               
                                                                               
 Number 2345                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said that the purpose in statute for the                
 present Alaska Soil and Water Conservation Board fits under the               
 proposed new title, but that is because the proposed title is so              
 broad.  He asked Mr. Hartman if he had considered something like              
 the "Agricultural and Silvicultural Conservation and Development              
 Board."                                                                       
                                                                               
 MR. HARTMAN replied that that was not specifically addressed by the           
 board when they arrived at the present name.                                  
 MR. HARTMAN apprised the committee of the board's interest in                 
 developing tourist related products from natural resources.  He               
 said he was looking at a birch wood box in Aniak, which is not                
 agricultural, but it is utilizing a natural resource with the help            
 of the Natural Resources Conservation and Development Board to                
 develop a market.  He said the board is also working with others              
 and trying to broaden the scope into locally available resources in           
 the soil and water district.  He talked about a project in the                
 Willow area of making pressboard out of wood chips.  He said that             
 is not agricultural but it is using byproducts from a lumber mill             
 and making a marketable product.  Another project in Fairbanks is             
 a dog "waste" compost project making compost and fertilizer from              
 dog team waste.....(end tape)                                                 
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-34, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 0001                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved that HB 539 move from the House Resources           
 Committee with individual recommendations and attached zero fiscal            
 note.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 0015                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES objected.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 0033                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said he would hold the bill for a quorum and             
 rescheduled HB 539 for Monday, March 18th.                                    
                                                                               
 HJR 60 - RS 2477 HIGHWAY RIGHTS OF WAY                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0033                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced that the committee would take                  
 testimony on HJR 60 while awaiting the arrival of the bill's                  
 sponsor, Representative Jeannette James.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0109                                                                   
                                                                               
 TOM HARRIS, Chief Executive Officer, Tyonek Native Corporation,               
 testified on behalf of the Village of Tyonek.  He requested that              
 the March 14, 1996 letter addressed to Senator Georgianna Lincoln             
 from the Tyonek Native Corporation be entered into the record as              
 part of the corporation's testimony:                                          
                                                                               
 "Tyonek Native Corporation and The Native Village of Tyonek are               
 requesting your assistance in conveying our concerns over House               
 Joint Resolution No. 60. relating to Revised Statute 2477 right-of-           
 way (RS 2477).                                                                
                                                                               
 "Please be aware that the State has made a claim of RS 2477 (200)             
 that crosses the Chuitna River at its mouth, takes out a 100 feet             
 through the village, and violates the Russian Orthodox cemetery in            
 the village, then travels on to the old village site where it                 
 terminates in the old village cemetery (also Russian Orthodox),               
 turns around and comes back.                                                  
                                                                               
 "The purpose of RS 2477 is supposedly to provide access to                    
 mineralized areas to the general public.  As you know, Tyonek is a            
 private community much like the private communities elsewhere in              
 the lower 48.  However to meet the needs of the resource                      
 development industry, Tyonek has already provided access to                   
 resource developers such as ARCO, Pacer Dome, Unocal, to name a               
 few.  Such access was provided by Tyonek, at no cost to the State             
 of Alaska and without disrupting the community.  Why then is                  
 RS2477(200) needed?  Why does the state need access to Tyonek's               
 cemeteries?                                                                   
                                                                               
 "RS 2477 as written and proposed by U.S. Congress Bill H.R. 2081,             
 provides for no public review or comment on any RS 2477 right-of-             
 way, no permitting or environmental impact review, no compensation            
 to the land owner (constituting a taking under the 5th Amendment),            
 and no commitment by the State to maintain the right-of-way after             
 it's taken.  While we agree that there are certain rights-of-way              
 that everyone can agree to support, we cannot and do not support RS           
 2477(200) in its present format, and have grave concerns about the            
 constitutionality of RS 2477 in its present form.  Thank you for              
 your support and consideration on this issue."                                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked Mr. Harris if he had further testimony.            
                                                                               
 Number 0134                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HARRIS emphasized that Tyonek is not opposed to resource                  
 development and supports responsible resource development, but does           
 not believe that RS 2477 allows any public land, 100 foot public              
 right-of-way, anywhere for any reason, without public comment or              
 review, without appropriate federal, state or local government                
 permitting and without appropriate confrontation with the land                
 owners that it is reasonable, responsible or in Alaska's best                 
 interest.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0197                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HARRIS stated that Tyonek's opposition is primarily in respect            
 to RS 2477 (200).  He reminded the committee that there are over              
 1,800 of these rights-of-ways and stated that HJR 60 lists just               
 over 500.  He said that none of those rights-of-ways have been                
 publicly reviewed and stated that the resolution is worded that the           
 rights-of-ways were documented and qualified.  He said he had                 
 received no information that they were qualified and by whom.                 
                                                                               
 Number 0230                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HARRIS said that RS 2477 (200) goes right through the Village             
 of Tyonek.  It violates two cemeteries, Russian Orthodox cemetery,            
 and terminates in one of those cemeteries and then turns around and           
 goes back.  We just do not see the need for that.  This kind of               
 development is very counterproductive to relationships across the             
 state.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 0256                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HARRIS referred to page 3, line 1, "to enable this generation             
 and future generations of Alaskans to use the routes established by           
 pioneer Alaskans."  He said, "Respectfully, Mr. Chairman and                  
 committee members, we believe that it ought to state pioneer and              
 `Native Alaskans.'"  It is only appropriate if this bill is going             
 to be considered, it ought to document pioneer Alaskans and also              
 Native Alaskans usage of the land.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 0293                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES, sponsor of HJR 60, responded to Mr.           
 Harris that she would be happy to write in "Native Alaskans."                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE LONG suggested that deleting the word "pioneer"                
 would simplify the issue.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0328                                                                   
                                                                               
 KATHLEEN DALTON testified from Fairbanks, stating she was formerly            
 associated with the study of the 1,500-1,800 RS 2477 rights-of-               
 ways.  She complimented HJR 60 on being well written and factual.             
                                                                               
 MS. DALTON informed the committee that the Department of the                  
 Interior has been attempting in the last four years to legislate by           
 regulation.  She cautioned, "In other words, to eliminate any                 
 access to an RS 2477 right-of-way before the assertion is made, if            
 an assertion is ever made, before the state can review it."                   
                                                                               
 Number 0400                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. DALTON applauded legislative leadership in recognizing that               
 this is a serious problem.  She said access is a serious problem in           
 Alaska and we know that ANILCA has Title XI which has appeared as             
 a solution to any access problem by some, but she believes that               
 ANILCA does not answer all access problems.  She referred to 17 (b)           
 under ANCSA relating to access possibility, and said it is not an             
 access possibility except at the time of a conveyance of Native               
 land to a Native corporation.  There are very strict limitations on           
 those.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 0437                                                                   
 MS. DALTON referred to page 2, line 17 reading, "Whereas federal              
 and state courts have consistently ruled for 100 years that it was            
 the intent of the Congress in enacting RS 2477 that the law of the            
 state where the RS 2477 right-of-way is located defines the acts              
 that constitute acceptance and the scope of the right-of-way."  She           
 indicated that the state has not had an opportunity as far as                 
 decline (indisc.) and she hopes the issue will remain open and it             
 may be 10 years from now that this is needed.                                 
                                                                               
 MS. DALTON addressed Mr. Harris from Tyonek stating that some of              
 the trails that were looked at in the study were traditional Native           
 trails.  She mentioned Shishmaref across the conservation unit.               
 There is a cultural trail from the upper Alatna area over into                
 Kobuk.  That trail has been established there for centuries.                  
                                                                               
 Number 0502                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS closed teleconference testimony and invited              
 Juneau participants to come forward.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 0530                                                                   
                                                                               
 BILL PERHACH, Volunteer, Alaska Environmental Lobby, testified that           
 the Alaska Environmental Lobby cannot support HJR 60 and read his             
 statement into the record:                                                    
                                                                               
 "This resolution accurately quotes the language of RS 2477                    
 providing that the "right-of-way for the construction of highways             
 over public lands, not reserved for public use, is hereby granted."           
                                                                               
 MR. PERHACH continued, "It correctly notes the Federal Land Policy            
 and Management Act repealing RS 2477 in 1976 expressly reserves               
 existing rights-of-way created under RS 2477.                                 
                                                                               
 MR. PERHACH proceeded, "It laudably commits Alaska `to a balanced             
 philosophy of the development and wise use of Alaska's scenic                 
 beauty, mineral wealth, wildlife, and other natural resources                 
 coupled with environmental protection to ensure future generations'           
 might experience Alaska as we still know it.                                  
                                                                               
 MR. PERHACH stated, "However, this resolution's reliance on case              
 law supporting the intent of a Congress that governed the United              
 States 130 years ago might very well be misplaced.  `The law must             
 be stable, but it cannot stand still.'                                        
                                                                               
 MR. PERHACH, "The resolution's confidence in a definition of                  
 `construction' satisfied by mere use is tenuous and - at the very             
 least - will make lawyers wealthy.                                            
                                                                               
 MR. PERHACH said, "Ultimately, however, HJR 60 fails to deserve               
 support because it endorses bad legislation:  U.S. Senate Bill 1425           
 and U.S. House Bill 2081.  These Bills are open ended and do not              
 address major concerns of many Alaskans such as the `taking' of               
 private lands; the status of Native Lands; the disposition of                 
 surveyed and unsurveyed section lines, the scope of `upgrades'                
 (winter trails across wetlands to all weather highways); unmanaged            
 motorized access, and access to and through National Parks.                   
                                                                               
 MR. PERHACH concluded, "Ultimately, Alaska is acquiring a poor                
 reputation as steward of its resources.  This resolution does                 
 nothing for that image and only provides more ammunition for those            
 who say we're not."                                                           
                                                                               
 MR. PERHACH further stated that he is from the Denali Borough and             
 in initial studies that were done in Denali Park, there were 30 RS            
 2477 routes identified.  Six of those were routes that go into the            
 Kantishna.  You will recall that part of all six routes were looked           
 at as a way of bringing another road into the Kantishna providing             
 what is referred to as North Side Access.  He said the engineers,             
 the Fairbanks Northern Regional DOT, referred to the favored route            
 also known as the Stampede Trail, all of those routes are winter              
 trails.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0709                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE LONG thanked Mr. Perhach for his testimony stating             
 that he had been teetering on whether to support this legislation             
 until the testimony alleged that lawmakers were poor stewards.                
                                                                               
 Number 0727                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he was not teetering and takes high           
 offense to Mr. Perhach's assertion that the legislature is a poor             
 steward. He said, "The ultimate lockup and the ultimate win for the           
 environmental community would be to, forever, have no access to the           
 state.  I think the environmental community is quietly sitting back           
 and hoping, and praying, that we will not be able to establish any            
 rights-of-ways, because it is the only win.  Then you guys will not           
 have to fight things project-by-project, because then there will              
 never be any projects."                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0771                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES prefaced that HJR 60 was designed to           
 establish that the state has some rights in the RS 2477, and said             
 that the Federal Revised Statute 2477 (RS 2477) provided for `the             
 right-of-way' for the construction of highways over public lands,             
 not reserved for public use.  HJR 60 preserves access all over                
 Alaska using traditional roads and trails for future roads and                
 trails.                                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said the definition of "highways" could be               
 construed to mean black top and in Alaska that is not the case.  We           
 have spent a lot of time and money trying to identify where these             
 trails are and time is running out.  We need some assistance.                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES further speculated if a trail is protected, it           
 is possible by negotiation to move the trail a little to be sure              
 that it is physically able to be constructed or does not interfere            
 with some other uses since the trail was used.  I think that if               
 Alaska wants to have a successful future, this resolution is a very           
 important part of it.  We are going to have to talk this out and              
 work this out together.                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES further said, I do not see that we have any              
 controversy with the Native lands and the Native issues in the                
 state.  I think that our entire goal should be to be able to                  
 provide ourselves with income off of our resources.  We need these            
 trails in order to do that.  Yes, we have spent a lot of money                
 trying to identify where these trails are.  No, we have not been              
 able to get into court to assert our rights and get a court                   
 decision that says, in fact, this is a valid trail.  When we bring            
 forward these identified trails throughout the state, and we go to            
 court to establish them, that is the time when people can come                
 forward with their objections.  These are not automatic, we have to           
 assert them first.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 0898                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES referred to page 3, line 2 and moved             
 to insert "Native and" before the word "pioneer."  The sentence               
 would read, "to enable this generation and future generations of              
 Alaskan to use the routes established by Native and pioneer                   
 Alaskans."  She said Native Alaskans were here first and it stands            
 to reason that they should be included first.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0922                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said, hearing no objection, it is so ordered.            
                                                                               
 Number 0938                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES stated that if we are going to continue to be            
 good stewards of the state, and manage the state's resources in a             
 responsible manner, and we continue to represent the protection of            
 the environment in a safe way, this is the public process.  To not            
 do anything is the wrong answer.  The thing is to do it in a                  
 responsible manner. I think this is an important message to send to           
 Washington, D.C.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 0983                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES offered an amendment on page 2, line 25-29:             
 delete all material.                                                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES objected.                                               
 Number 1016                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES responded that she understands Representative            
 Davies concern but felt it imperative to keep the language, "to               
 preserve the long-standing judicial and executive interpretation of           
 RS 2477 and to protect the existence of rights-of-way previously              
 granted by the federal government under RS 2477."                             
                                                                               
 Number 1070                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES interpreted Representative Davies intent and            
 suggested the deletion of "S. 1425" on line 25; the language could            
 read, "Whereas legislation has been introduced in the United States           
 Senate."  On line 26 delete "H.R. 2081" and the language could                
 read, "Whereas legislation has been introduced in the United States           
 House."  She felt that would accomplish Representative Davies                 
 purpose and stated that she supported that amendment.                         
                                                                               
 Number 1100                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES accepted Representative Barnes amendment to             
 the amendment.  Hearing no objection, it was so ordered.                      
                                                                               
 Number 1120                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there was objection to the amendment.           
 Hearing no objection, it was so ordered.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1123                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES moved that HJR 60, as amended, move from the            
 House Resources Committee with individual recommendations and                 
 attached zero fiscal note.  There being no objection, CSHJR 60(RES)           
 passed from the House Resources Committee.                                    
                                                                               
 HB 469 - INCREASE LAND GRANT TO UNIV. OF ALASKA                             
                                                                               
 Number 1137                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS announced the next order of business was HB 469.            
 He called on Joseph Henri to testify.                                         
                                                                               
 JOSEPH HENRI, Chair, Finance, Facilities and Land Management                  
 Committee, University of Alaska Board of Regents, explained that              
 committee had been pushing for a state land grant and said the bill           
 was much needed.  "We're a land grant university under the federal            
 statute, but we have no lands, substantively speaking," he said.              
 He indicated that while the university had 112,000 acres of land,             
 Alaska had 104,000,000 upland acres, plus an unspecified amount of            
 tideland and submerged acreage.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1231                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HENRI noted the university was asking for one-third of                    
 1percent of the land owned by the state.  Receiving 500,000 acres             
 would be a big step for the university, which would work hard to              
 induce development and to earn money on it, which was necessitated            
 by diminishing general fund money.  "I think we will offer the                
 mining world a good, sensible, reliable deal," he said.  "We will             
 not be arbitrary with them.  If we were, they wouldn't come to our            
 land.  And, of course, we have, in our university system, a school            
 of mineral engineering, graduates of whom are running some of these           
 companies this very day."                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1436                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS asked Sara Hannan of the Alaska Environmental               
 Lobby if she could wait until the following Monday to speak, to               
 which she agreed.                                                             
                                                                               
 HEATH HILYARD, Student Body Representative, University of                     
 Fairbanks, spoke on behalf of HB 469.  Tuition rates had risen                
 nearly 200 percent over the past decade, he said.  Meanwhile,                 
 general fund monies to the university had diminished enough that              
 tuition increases had not entirely offset the decline.  Mr. Hilyard           
 noted that the Board of Regents had just approved another tuition             
 increase.  "We're not even maintaining status quo at this point in            
 time," he said.  "We're just slowing the rate of regression in the            
 UA system.  This additional 500,000 acres would go a long way to              
 helping the university generate enough revenue to begin to at least           
 maintain status quo, if not possibly succeed and progress, as I was           
 presuming it was intended to do."  Mr. Hilyard said there were                
 serious technical and external issues that were not of great                  
 concern to the students.  However, they were concerned about                  
 tuition increases, coupled with unfunded faculty positions and                
 program closures.  As a result, the students firmly supported                 
 HB469.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1580                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DON LONG asked if Mr. Hilyard knew which lands were            
 being looked at.                                                              
                                                                               
 MR. HILYARD indicated he did not know.                                        
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS informed people waiting on teleconference that              
 more public testimony would be taken Monday.  He asked for a motion           
 to accept CSHB 469, version F, as a work draft.                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said, "So moved."  There being no objection, it           
 was so ordered.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1740                                                                   
 SUSAN FLENSBURG, Director, Bristol Bay Coastal Resource Service               
 Area (BBCRSA) Coastal Management Program, testified via                       
 teleconference, saying BBCRSA's coastal district encompassed 11               
 communities, including Dillingham.  The majority of land in the               
 coastal district was owned by the state.  There had been two state            
 management plans in effect for the area, including the Bristol Bay            
 Area Plan and the Nushagak/Mulchatna Rivers Recreation Management           
 Plan.  Ms. Flensburg said the latter was not only a land use plan             
 for the Department of Natural Resources but also a special coastal            
 management plan for the district.                                             
                                                                               
 MS. FLENSBURG said, "I support education.  I  think the university            
 needs increased funding.  We've got a small branch out here in                
 Dillingham, as well.  But my main concern with the bill, the way              
 it's presently crafted, is that it seems to totally by-pass any               
 kind of public review process."  She referred to Section 8(e), page           
 8, lines 17-20, and said the management plans had taken years to              
 develop, with a full-blown public review process upon which                   
 decisions were made.  She thought the bill threw all that out the             
 window.  "My understanding of the bill is that none of the existing           
 land use management plans would apply," she said.  "There would be            
 no best-interest finding determination, which is typically done for           
 land use decisions."  Ms. Flensburg asked why the bill was written            
 so that it precluded relying on the land use plans and the state's            
 best interest finding determination process for land selection.               
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS deferred to Wendy Redman for a response.                    
                                                                               
 Number 1975                                                                   
                                                                               
 WENDY REDMAN, Vice President for University Relations, University             
 of Alaska Fairbanks, explained HB 469 included sections that                  
 expanded the university's current public process.  The university             
 had also passed new policies expanding on that process, she said.             
 She noted that prior to disposal of any lands, the Department of              
 Natural Resources (DNR) had to meet requirements addressing best              
 use determination.                                                            
                                                                               
 MS. REDMAN said, "This bill was specifically redrafted this year in           
 a way that gives, essentially, total control to the Department of             
 Natural Resources for them to determine even what lands would be              
 available for us to select from."   She indicated that was                    
 primarily in response to concerns raised by the environmental                 
 community and others, who wanted to make sure DNR would follow the            
 public processes with which Alaskans were comfortable.  "So, we               
 were comfortable with that, as well," she said.  "And so, this bill           
 really is a much more simplified way.  Essentially, it says DNR               
 gets to determine what lands are even available for selection,                
 based on their own best use determination."                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2100                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. FLENSBURG stated she did not see that in the bill.  She                   
 referred to Section 8 (e), which began, "In conveying land to the             
 University of Alaska under this section, the commissioner of                  
 natural resources shall give public notice under AS 38.05.945(b)".            
 Ms. Flensburg noted that was the standard public notice provision             
 in Title 38.  She pointed out subsection (e) concluded by saying,             
 "but other provisions of AS 38.04 and AS 38.05 do not apply."  Ms.            
 Flensburg said those sections talked about the state's best                   
 interest planning determination process.  She said the bill removed           
 the state's ability to rely on existing land use plans to help                
 determine what those selections should be.  Although public notice            
 would be provided, there would be no public review process.                   
                                                                               
 [END OF TAPE]                                                                 
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-35, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 0005                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS announced the teleconference would conclude at              
 2:45 p.m.  He informed Ms. Flensburg that Representative                      
 Therriault, sponsor of the bill, had an 800 number and offered to             
 call Ms. Flensburg to provide that number.                                    
                                                                               
 MS. FLENSBURG indicated she could call Representative Therriault's            
 office.  She concluded by saying she hoped the committee understood           
 how significant Section 8 (e) was.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 0088                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES pointed out to Ms. Flensburg that under                 
 Section 8, the land list had to be submitted to the legislature,              
 which should provide a public process.                                        
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS announced that the public hearing would continue            
 Monday at 8:00 a.m.                                                           
                                                                               
 AN UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN, speaking via teleconference from the                   
 University of Alaska Anchorage, indicated numerous students were              
 waiting on teleconference to testify.  She said most of the                   
 students there opposed the bill.  She asked if the hearing could be           
 continued that day.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 0197                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS responded that although the committee members               
 would be willing, the teleconference was ending.  He apologized               
 that not everyone could be heard that day.  After the                         
 teleconference concluded, he offered to hear testimony from two               
 students in the audience, who declined, saying they were from                 
 Juneau and would return Monday.                                               
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 There being no further business to conduct, CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS                 
 adjourned the House Resources Committee meeting at 2:45 p.m.                  
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects