Legislature(1995 - 1996)

02/14/1996 08:07 AM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                       February 14, 1996                                       
                           8:07 a.m.                                           
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
 Representative Joe Green, Co-Chairman                                         
 Representative William K. "Bill" Williams, Co-Chairman                        
 Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chairman                                      
 Representative Alan Austerman                                                 
 Representative John Davies                                                    
 Representative Pete Kott                                                      
 Representative Don Long                                                       
 Representative Irene Nicholia                                                 
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
 Representative Ramona Barnes                                                  
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
 CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 190(RES) am                                            
 "An Act establishing a residency requirement for auctions of state            
      - PASSED CSSB 190(RES)am OUT OF COMMITTEE                                
 *HOUSE BILL NO. 357                                                           
 "An Act relating to the issuance of hunting, trapping, and                    
 noncommercial fishing licenses, tags, and permits and to residency            
 for fish and game purposes; and providing for an effective date."             
      - PASSED CSHB 357(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                  
 *HOUSE BILL NO. 386                                                           
 "An Act relating to cruelty to animals and the provision of food              
 and water to confined or impounded animals."                                  
      - PASSED CSHB 386(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                  
 (* First Public Hearing)                                                      
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
 BILL:  SB 190                                                               
 SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) TAYLOR, Leman, Kelly, Pearce, Salo, Sharp,             
 Green, Lincoln, Halford, Torgerson, Miller, Donley;                           
 REPRESENTATIVE(S) Grussendorf, Williams                                       
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                 ACTION                                    
 12/29/95      2056    (S)   PREFILE RELEASED - 12/29/95                       
 01/08/96      2056    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/08/96      2056    (S)   RESOURCES                                         
 01/30/96      2250    (S)   RES RPT  CS  5DP 1AM     SAME TITLE               
 01/30/96      2250    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO SB (DNR)                      
 02/02/96      2278    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO CS (DNR)                      
 02/05/96      2304    (S)   RULES TO CALENDAR  2/5/96                         
 02/05/96      2305    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                              
 02/05/96      2305    (S)   RES  CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                      
 02/05/96      2305    (S)   COSPONSOR(S):  SALO, SHARP, GREEN                 
 02/05/96      2305    (S)   LINCOLN, HALFORD, TORGERSON                       
 02/05/96      2305    (S)   TORGERSON, MILLER, DONLEY                         
 02/05/96      2305    (S)   AM NO  1     ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                 
 02/05/96      2305    (S)   ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN CON                
 02/05/96      2305    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB 190(RES) AM             
 02/05/96      2306    (S)   PASSED Y20 N-                                     
 02/05/96      2310    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                
 02/07/96      2640    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/07/96      2640    (H)   RESOURCES                                         
 02/07/96      2667    (H)   CROSS SPONSOR(S): GRUSSENDORF                     
 02/09/96      2708    (H)   CROSS SPONSOR(S): WILLIAMS                        
 02/14/96     (H)   RESOURCES 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                              
 BILL:  HB 357                                                               
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) OGAN                                            
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                 ACTION                                    
 12/29/95      2359    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                  
 01/08/96      2359    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/08/96      2359    (H)   RESOURCES, FINANCE                                
 02/14/96              (H)   RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                        
 BILL:  HB 386                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: CRUELTY TO ANIMALS                                               
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GRUSSENDORF, Finkelstein, B.Davis               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG            ACTION                                         
 01/05/96      2367    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                  
 01/08/96      2367    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/08/96      2367    (H)   RESOURCES, JUDICIARY                              
 02/14/96              (H)   RES AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
 JOE AMBROSE, Legislative Assistant                                            
   to Senator Robin Taylor                                                     
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 30                                                     
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3873                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 190.                                     
 RON SWANSON, Deputy Director                                                  
 Division of Lands                                                             
 Department of Natural Resources                                               
 3601 C Street                                                                 
 Anchorage, AK  99501                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 269-8503                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 190.                                     
 MAJOR BUELL RUSSEL, Deputy Director                                           
 Division of Fish and Wildlife Protection                                      
 Department of Public Safety                                                   
 5700 East Tudor Road                                                          
 Anchorage, AK  99507-1225                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 269-5682                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 357.                          
 CAPTAIN RICHARD GRAHME                                                        
 Division of Fish and Wildlife Protection                                      
 Department of Public Safety                                                   
 5700 East Tudor Road                                                          
 Anchorage, AK  99507-1225                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 269-5589                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 357.                          
 PAUL JOHNSON                                                                  
 P. O. Box 22                                                                  
 Elfin Cove, AK  99825                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 789-0944                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 357.                          
 EDDIE GRASSER                                                                 
 Alaska Outdoor Council                                                        
 4506 Robbie Road                                                              
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 463-3830                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 357.                          
 REPRESENTATIVE BEN GRUSSENDORF                                                
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol, Room 415                                                             
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3824                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 386.                                     
 TERRI TIBBETT, Legislative Staff                                              
   to Representative Ben Grussendorf                                           
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 415                                                    
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3824                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Available for questions on HB 386.                       
 JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Legislative Counsel                                          
 Division of Legal Services                                                    
 Legislative Affairs Agency                                                    
 130 Seward Street, Suite 409                                                  
 Juneau, AK  99801-2105                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2450                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 386                                      
 MICHAEL GATTI, Borough Attorney                                               
 Matanuska-Susitna Borough                                                     
 350 East Dahlia Avenue                                                        
 Palmer, AK  99645-6488                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 745-4801                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 386.                          
 EDNA ANDERSON                                                                 
 Farm Bureau                                                                   
 P. O. Box 441                                                                 
 Homer, AK  99603                                                              
 Telephone:  (907) 235-8433                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Has concerns with HB 386.                                
 JIM JENNINGS                                                                  
 422 NRA Lane                                                                  
 Fairbanks, AK  99709                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 479-6598                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Has concerns with HB 386.                                
 BEVERLY NESTER                                                                
 5465 Chena Hot Springs Road                                                   
 Fairbanks, AK  99712                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 488-6356                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Has concerns with HB 386.                                
 DIXIE JENNINGS                                                                
 422 NRA Lane                                                                  
 Fairbanks, AK  99709                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 479-6598                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Has concerns with HB 386.                                
 DAN LaSOTA                                                                    
 Fairbanks North Star Borough                                                  
 693 Manchester Loop                                                           
 Fairbanks, AK  99712                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 479-0650                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 386.                          
 ANNE CARPENETI, Attorney                                                      
 Criminal Division                                                             
 Department of Law                                                             
 P. O. Box 110300                                                              
 Juneau, AK  99811-0300                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3600                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 386.                          
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
 TAPE 96-16, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 CO-CHAIRMAN JOE GREEN called the House Resources Committee meeting            
 to order at 8:07  Members present at the call to order were                   
 Representatives Green, Ogan, Austerman, Davies, Kott and Long.                
 Representatives Barnes, Nicholia and Williams were absent.                    
 SB 190 - RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT/STATE LAND AUCTION                           
 Number 044                                                                    
 JOE AMBROSE, Legislative Assistant to Senator Robin Taylor,                   
 testified on behalf of Senator Taylor, sponsor of CSSB 190 (RES)am:           
 "Senate Bill 190 was introduced to correct a situation which                  
 allowed ten percent of the state land sold at the first public                
 auction since 1991 to be purchased by non-residents.  This in a               
 state where only about one percent of the land is in private                  
 MR. AMBROSE continued, "Current law restricts the homestead program           
 to Alaska residents, but no such provision is made for the sale of            
 other land, sold at auction.  As a result, of the 204 parcels                 
 actually sold in 1995, 21 went to out-of-state bidders.  In eleven            
 cases, these nonresidents beat out otherwise qualified state                  
 MR. AMBROSE stated, "Imagine how it must feel to the resident of              
 Fairbanks who submitted a bid on state land, only to be beat out by           
 a resident of Washington state by $61.80.  Or the Wasilla couple              
 who lost their chance at owning a piece of Alaska to a Minnesota              
 woman by $442?  Or the Anchorage woman who lost out to a man from             
 Michigan by $214?                                                             
 MR. AMBROSE proceeded, "To add insult to injury, the availability             
 of state land to out-of-state residents was actually promoted on              
 the Internet by the Alaska Tourism Marketing Council.  A Council              
 spokesman said they were trying to promote the "Alaska mystique."             
 Maybe the Council thinks there is something mystical about the                
 shortage of private land in Alaska, but the average Alaska is more            
 frustrated than mystified.                                                    
 MR. AMBROSE concluded, "SB 190 would restrict participation in the            
 public auction of state land to people who have been residents of             
 the state for at least one year prior to the sale.  The bill was              
 amended to place no such restriction on the disposal of commercial,           
 industrial or agricultural land.  I don't believe we want to                  
 inhibit those who would purchase land for growth and development.             
 But the sale of recreational and residential property, like the               
 homestead program, should be restricted to folks who have already             
 made an investment by residing in this great state."                          
 Number 243                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES appreciated the motivation behind SB
 190.  He said it would be frustrating to get beat out by $61.00,              
 but equally frustrating if it were another Alaskan resident that              
 won by $61.00 as well.                                                        
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said that allowing outsiders to buy land in             
 Alaska is not necessarily detrimental in every instance, and he               
 alluded to a former Alaskan wanting to participate.                           
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked what the overall percentage was in this           
 particular land sale.  What was the percentage of Alaskans getting            
 in versus the percentage of people outside of Alaska?                         
 Number 378                                                                    
 MR. AMBROSE replied, right at 10 percent went outside.                        
 MR. AMBROSE pointed out that this would only restrict the sale on             
 the first go-around.  The state has gone to an auction system                 
 rather than lotteries because it is less expensive to manage and              
 the minimum bid is the assessed value.  Property that is not sold             
 in the first round becomes an over-the-counter sale to anyone who             
 wants to walk in and buy it.  So, that former Alaskan would have              
 the opportunity to walk in to the Department of Natural Resources             
 and purchase property.                                                        
 MR. AMBROSE stated that this year, since the 1991 Mental Health               
 Lands Trust dispute, is the first year that the state has had a               
 sale.  He said the bill restricts the land sale, on the first go-             
 around, to Alaska residents and if the property is not sold then it           
 becomes available to anyone who wants to buy it.                              
 Number 455                                                                    
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if the state of Alaska financially                    
 benefitted from outside competition.                                          
 MR. AMBROSE stated that the impact is so minimal the Department of            
 Natural Resources placed a zero fiscal note on SB 190.                        
 Number 498                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE DON LONG asked for clarification on the one-year               
 residency requirement.                                                        
 MR. AMBROSE responded that the one-year residency requirement seems           
 to be an acceptable standard.  The sponsor would argue that the               
 state does have an interest in restricting the sales, at least on             
 the first go-around.                                                          
 Number 572                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN expressed appreciation that agricultural            
 and industrial lands are excluded from the legislation.                       
 Number 610                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES addressed Representative Long's question                
 about the one-year residency requirement asking if Mr. Ambrose'               
 answer also dealt with the equal protection concerns of the people            
 of the United States.                                                         
 MR. AMBROSE responded by reading a memorandum from Jack Chenoweth,            
 Legislative Legal Services, "I am required to transmit with the               
 bill a memo cautioning that the bill, both as it was introduced and           
 as offered in the Senate Resources Committee, MAY present                     
 constitutional questions.  Objection may be taken either under                
 privileges and immunities, Article IV, Section 2, U. S.                       
 Constitution, or with reference to the one year durational                    
 residency requirement under the equal protection clause.  It is               
 hard to say where the court will come out on this.  On the                    
 privileges and immunities questions, the U.S. Supreme Court has               
 been inclined to reject state efforts to withhold privileges for              
 nonresidents and the justification for the regulation involved                
 nonresident economic or employment opportunities and the right to             
 travel, but has been less demanding when the state has acted to               
 protect for the benefit of its residents as against nonresidents.             
 State institutions that were established and are supported                    
 primarily for the benefit of state residents.  Similarly, the                 
 validity of durational residency requirements will depend on the              
 courts trying to find whether the legislation strikes a proper                
 balance between legitimate state interests and the classification             
 it has drawn.  I cannot provide definitive advice on these points,            
 but I am sending this memo along only to note potential (indisc)."            
 Number 744                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said that part of the justification for this            
 bill is the stated possibility of land available to Alaskans.  Yet            
 you have just argued that there is a lot of land available over-              
 the-counter.  He said those are contradictory positions.                      
 MR. AMBROSE said the property that becomes available over-the-                
 counter because it was not sold at auction would indicate that it             
 is less desirable.  The more desirable pieces go first at auction.            
 Number 841                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN asked the residency requirement for             
 MR. AMBROSE replied that he was not certain.                                  
 Number 872                                                                    
 RON SWANSON, Deputy Director, Division of Lands, Department of                
 Natural Resources said the homestead and homesite residency                   
 requirement is one year.                                                      
 Number 880                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN asked if the homestead residency                     
 requirement had been tried in court.                                          
 MR. SWANSON responded that the homestead resident requirement had             
 not been challenged in court.  He said the only time a residency              
 requirement had been challenged was in the early 1970s.  The Kenai            
 Peninsula Borough restricted their land sales to only borough                 
 residents.  That was challenged in court and upheld.                          
 Number 931                                                                    
 MR. SWANSON said he would elaborate on Mr. Ambrose' testimony.  The           
 state offered 417 parcels for sale in October, 1995.  383 were                
 subdivision residency or recreational lots, 34 were agricultural.             
 205 of those were sold at the auction and 21 of those went to non             
 Alaskans.  Of those 21, nine lots were not even bid on by Alaskan             
 MR. SWANSON said of the 53 homestead parcels offered in the state             
 lottery, the department received 4,133 applications for those                 
 MR. SWANSON said starting in January 1996, the lots that were not             
 sold at the auction, 214 were put up over-the-counter. 14 of those            
 have been purchased by non Alaskans out of 122 applications.  He              
 said as of today, we still have 132 of those parcels available for            
 Number 1010                                                                   
 MR. SWANSON said a total of $4.2 million total was brought in for             
 land sales this year.                                                         
 Number 1020                                                                   
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said, on those recycled tracts, does the                    
 department maintain the requirement that the appraised value is the           
 minimum bid.                                                                  
 MR. SWANSON responded that the state sells at the fair market                 
 value, the appraised value.                                                   
 Number 1038                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Swanson if he had any concerns                
 about the passage of SB 190.  Would it have a detrimental affect on           
 being able to sell the lands that you are offering?                           
 MR. SWANSON replied that considering the state only sold 21 of the            
 417 parcels to non Alaskans and the lots that are available over              
 the counter, he does not see a problem.  He said the 417 parcels              
 offered by the state are basically recycled lots.  Parcels that               
 were foreclosed on or people just gave up on.                                 
 Number 1125                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN moved that CSSB 190(RES)am move from the House            
 Resources Committee with individual recommendations and attached              
 zero fiscal note.   Hearing no objections, it was so ordered.                 
 HB 357 - RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT:FISH & GAME LICENSE                          
 Number 1163                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said the HB 357 is a long overdue housekeeping            
 measure in Title 16 that deals with residency licensing privileges:           
 "HB 357 simplifies the enforcement of residency requirements for              
 hunting, trapping, and noncommercial fishing licenses.  This                  
 legislation will reduce the number of nonresidents who use                    
 loopholes in current state residency laws to hunt, trap, and fish             
 Alaska's resources.  After meeting and working diligently with the            
 Department of Law, Department of Fish and Game, Department of                 
 Public Safety and Legislative Legal Services, this bill was drafted           
 to accommodate all the participants concerns addressed during those           
 "The definition of residency was separated into subsections for               
 clarification purposes.  In these subsection, you will note the               
 different changes that were made to better define the rules of                
 residency for Title 16 purposes.                                              
 "Also, passage of HB 357 could increase revenue annually by                   
 thousands of dollars in relationship to current statistics of                 
 nonresidents in terms of licenses, game tags and hunting fees for             
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said a major point of HB 357 is replacing the             
 language, "permanent place of abode" to "domicile" which makes it             
 clear that the legislature intended only those who are domiciled in           
 the state are entitled to residency licensing privileges.                     
 Number 1286                                                                   
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN referred to the domicile language on page 3, line           
 14 and the language on page 3, lines 25 - 27 concerning military              
 personnel who have been stationed in Alaska.  He asked why the                
 language "domicile" did not automatically qualify the military.               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN discussed the definition of residency and the             
 definition of domicile with Chairman Green.                                   
 MAJOR BUELL RUSSEL, Deputy Director, Division of Fish and Wildlife            
 Protection, Department of Public Safety, said he was available for            
 questions and deferred to Captain Grahme.                                     
 Number 1432                                                                   
 CAPTAIN RICHARD GRAHME, Division of Fish and Wildlife Protection,             
 Department of Public Safety, testified in support of HB 357 stating           
 that the division had worked on the bill over the past several                
 months with Representative Ogan and the departments of law and fish           
 and game.  He said the definition of residency is of importance to            
 the department.  It has caused problems in the past of prosecuting            
 cases and simply responding to what the state's residency                     
 requirements are and what has to be done to meet those                        
 requirements.  It is not just a matter of enforcement, it is also             
 a matter of providing a service and answers to the public.  He said           
 equally important to know is residency privileges of other states.            
 Number 1552                                                                   
 CAPTAIN GRAHME said in Section 16.05.940(c) and Section                       
 16.05.940(26)(d) the branch of United States Coast Guard has been             
 added to the federal definition of military service.                          
 Number 1573                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DON LONG referred to page 4, line 3 and asked the              
 difference between one year and 12 consecutive months.                        
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN responded that an individual has to remain in             
 the state for 12 consecutive months.                                          
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN explained that a fisherman might come to             
 Alaska and fish for five months and then return to Bellingham for             
 six months and then return to Alaska again for three months. That             
 fisherman considers himself a resident of the state of Alaska.                
 Number 1663                                                                   
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN noted the arrival of Co-Chairman Williams and               
 Representative Irene Nicholia.                                                
 Number 1710                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said there is a description in Title 16, the              
 hunting regulations that explains the 12 consecutive months.                  
 C0-CHAIRMAN GREEN stated that an individual can be outside the                
 state and travel to and from Alaska as long as domicile is                    
 maintained in Alaska.                                                         
 Number 1784                                                                   
 PAUL JOHNSON, Elfin Cove, agreed with the testimony of Major Russel           
 and Captain Grahme.  He said, in our small communities in Southeast           
 Alaska, we have a continuing problem with individuals taking                  
 advantage of state residency.  HB 357 cleans things up and it is              
 Number 1831                                                                   
 EDDIE GRASSER, Alaska Outdoor Council, testified in support of HB
 357 stating that the bill will close some loopholes and streamline            
 the process on residency requirements.                                        
 Number 1863                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES offered an amendment on page 3, line 31.                
 Strike the word "and" and change it to "or."                                  
 Number 1913                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he had no problem with the amendment.                
 Number 1937                                                                   
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN stated that the amendment was small but                     
 significant.  He asked if there were objections to the amendment.             
 Hearing no objection, it was so ordered.                                      
 Number 1988                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN moved that HB 357, as amended, move from             
 the House Resources Committee with individual recommendations and             
 attached zero fiscal note.  Hearing no objection, CSHB 357(RES)               
 passed from the House Resources Committee.                                    
 HB 386 - CRUELTY TO ANIMALS                                                 
 Number 2048                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE BEN GRUSSENDORF addressed the proposed committee               
 substitute for HB 386.  He said the proposed changes offer                    
 prosecutors a more workable statute.  Changing "intentionally" to             
 "knowingly" lowers the state of mind the state must prove in                  
 prosecuting a case.  Changing the wording which describes the                 
 animal's level of suffering offers more options under which to                
 prosecute and lowers the difficult standard which exists.                     
 Number 2159                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE GRUSSENDORF discussed the term reckless.  He said in           
 order to prove cruelty through neglect, current law requires that             
 the accused acted "recklessly" which means "a person is aware of              
 and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk               
 that the result with occur."                                                  
 Number 2198                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE GRUSSENDORF stated that the main thrust of the                 
 proposed committee substitute for HB 386 is the penalty section.              
 He said a lot of local governments had contacted his office and               
 said they would like to have the power in regards to cruelty to               
 animals.  He said Section 2 and Section 5 allow first and second              
 class boroughs to exercise this power.                                        
 REPRESENTATIVE GRUSSENDORF said there was some concern with Section           
 3 and Section 6 where some boroughs said they had ordinances that             
 they were operating under and might have to change what they are              
 doing.  He offered a proposed amendment to take care of those                 
 Page 2, line 8: Delete "inconsistent with" and insert "more                   
 stringent than."                                                              
 Page 2, line 22: Delete "inconsistent with" and insert "more                  
 stringent than."                                                              
 Number 2297                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE GRUSSENDORF stated that his bill does not apply to             
 lawful hunting and trapping activities and clarified that his                 
 intent is not to regulate, but just to be specific with the                   
 prevention of cruelty to animals.                                             
 Number 2397                                                                   
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked for the adoption of Committee Substitute of           
 HB 386.C as the working document.  Hearing no objection, it was so            
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked the sponsor if he would like the Resources            
 Committee to move the amendment on page 2, lines 8 and 22.                    
 Number 2450                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN moved to adopt the amendment to CSHB 386.            
 Hearing no objection, it was so ordered.                                      
 Number 2465                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if the Iditarod Trail Committee or any              
 other dog racing association had contacted Representative                     
 Grussendorf about this bill.                                                  
 REPRESENTATIVE GRUSSENDORF asked his staff, Terri Tibbett, to come            
 forward.....(change tape)                                                     
 TAPE 96-16, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 TERRI TIBBETT, Legislative Staff to Representative Grussendorf,               
 responded that HB 386 is now before the Iditarod Trail Committee              
 and has not received an official endorsement but, unofficially, Mr.           
 Stan Hooley had expressed his support.                                        
 Number 039                                                                    
 MS. TIBBETT said the Alaska Animal Control Association also                   
 supports HB 386.                                                              
 Number 049                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked for more background information on the              
 introduction of this bill and the intent.                                     
 Number 122                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE GRUSSENDORF discussed with the committee the terms             
 of negligence, intent and preponderance of the evidence.                      
 Number 153                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE LONG related a story about Polar Bears coming into             
 the City of Barrow and having to be chased away.  He said people              
 complained about cruelty to the Polar Bears.  He said when Polar              
 Bears come to town, they eat people, they are dangerous.  He asked            
 if there is a distinction between wild and domesticated animals.              
 REPRESENTATIVE GRUSSENDORF said there is a distinction between wild           
 and domestic animals.  He said unless we have a special permit, you           
 and I cannot have control over a wild animal.                                 
 Number 235                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if criminal negligence was a misdemeanor.           
 He said he takes exception when the state will not pass a statute             
 making it criminally negligent to kill people but we are asking for           
 a statute to make it criminally negligent to kill animals.  He said           
 he cannot support this bill and, therefore, put a higher priority             
 on an animal's life than a human's life.                                      
 Number 341                                                                    
 JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Legislative Counsel, Division of Legal Services,             
 Legislative Affairs Agency, said that Representative Ogan's                   
 comments would be better addressed by the Department of Law.  He              
 said Alaska has a criminally negligent homicide statute that                  
 penalizes the killing of a person with criminal negligence in this            
 state, that is a Class E Felony.  He expounded on criminal                    
 negligence and Class E Felonies.                                              
 MR. LUCKHAUPT said that HB 386 reduces the requisite mental states            
 or cruelty to animals in the first degree from intentional conduct            
 to knowing conduct.  In this case, it would be intentionally                  
 inflicting severe physical pain or prolonged suffering on an                  
 Number 509                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN felt that Representative Ogan's concern              
 was a separate issue and stated that he supports HB 386.                      
 Number 540                                                                    
 MICHAEL GATTI, Borough Attorney, Matanuska-Susitna Borough, thanked           
 Representative Grussendorf for bringing the bill forward and stated           
 that it is generally a good bill.  He said amending the standard              
 for establishing cruelty to animals is a good step forward because            
 these cases can be difficult to prosecute.                                    
 MR. GATTI referred to his letter of February 13 to Representatives            
 Ben Grussendorf and Scott Ogan outlining municipal concerns about             
 language in Sections 3, 4, 5 and 6 of HB 386.  He said the bill               
 amends the animal control power that is set up by ordinance to                
 prohibit cruelty to animals.  He said animal control regulations              
 includes a number of activities other than license, impound,                  
 regulate, prohibit cruelty to, or disposition of animals.   While             
 the language "prohibit cruelty to" is good language, a good                   
 amendment would be to insert instead license, impound, regulate,              
 prohibit cruelty to those animals.                                            
 MR. GATTI said with respect to municipal powers, they are liberally           
 construed and you would not want to restrict municipal powers in a            
 particular area because they should have the discretion and                   
 flexibility to deal with different geographical, social and                   
 economic conditions.  He said a good example is the Polar Bear                
 story.  He said animal control in rural areas is much different               
 that animal control in Anchorage or even Mat-Su.  You would not               
 want to undermine the principle that municipal powers are liberally           
 MR. GATTI said if you look at the various municipal animal control            
 codes you will find that not only do they regulate licensing,                 
 impounding, cruelty and disposition of animals, but they are                  
 concerned about barking dogs, sanitary enclosures, diseased                   
 animals, animals near the street, kennel licensing, rabies                    
 certificates, adoption, rabies control.  If a municipality does not           
 follow the power through an election to make sure that it                     
 encompasses all those activities, it could be limited from engaging           
 in those activities.                                                          
 MR. GATTI suggested the word "regulate" be included in those                  
 sections because that will allow municipalities more flexibility to           
 protect the public interest.                                                  
 Number 780                                                                    
 MR. GATTI referred to subsection (e) of Sections 3 and 6.  He felt            
 that subsection (e) is not needed because municipalities cannot               
 have criminal penalties more stringent than a misdemeanor.  He said           
 Title 29, for second class boroughs, limits a municipal penalty for           
 misdemeanors to a $1,000 fine or 90 days in jail.  He said that               
 municipalities do not have the jurisdiction to develop felony                 
 offenses, and it is his understanding that the state would be                 
 responsible for that.  A municipality cannot have laws more                   
 stringent than the state.                                                     
 Number 859                                                                    
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said that the next committee of referral is the             
 House Judiciary Committee.  He said the legality issue might be               
 better addressed by House Judiciary.                                          
 Number 871                                                                    
 EDNA ANDERSON, President, Farm Bureau - Kenai Chapter, testified              
 from Homer saying that most of her questions had been addressed by            
 previous witnesses.                                                           
 Number 887                                                                    
 JIM JENNINGS testified from Fairbanks that he has been involved               
 with animals for 25 years as a horseshoer.  He said what you are              
 trying to do here is give boroughs authority without a vote of the            
 people of the boroughs.  He said if there is a problem in the                 
 borough, the borough has the ability to go to the vote of the                 
 people.  It may be costly, but the people are going to pay the bill           
 one way or the other.                                                         
 MR. JENNINGS noted that nowhere in HB 386 does it call for a                  
 veterinarian to make the diagnostic call on cruelty to animals.               
 He predicted that without the diagnostic call by a licensed                   
 veterinarian, there could be litigation that could cost the borough           
 or the state financially.  A licensed veterinarian is the only one            
 who can make a diagnostic call on an animal that will hold up in a            
 court of law.                                                                 
 Number 1026                                                                   
 BEVERLY NESTER testified from Fairbanks stating that the language             
 changes in HB 386 are very disturbing to her.  The intent, as she             
 understands it, is to lower the standards of intent of cruelty so             
 as to more easily charge an accused and offer more options to                 
 prosecute.  She feels that if a person is negligent but does not              
 mean to cause harm, they should not be guilty of a crime and should           
 be given a chance to amend the problem without the harassment from            
 power groups.                                                                 
 MS. NESTER listed multiple concerns and talked about a concern with           
 selective enforcement and discrimination.  She said all citizens              
 should be treated equally under the law including the people in               
 Juneau, Fairbanks, Anchorage, Barrow, Wainwright and Nome.  She               
 said if the state foots the bill in unorganized boroughs, it should           
 also foot the bill in the first and second class boroughs.  She               
 recommended that any amendments require a vote of the people rather           
 than an ordinance of the borough.                                             
 Number 1162                                                                   
 DIXIE JENNINGS testified that her concerns echo the two previous              
 speakers and she had nothing new to add.                                      
 Number 1199                                                                   
 DAN LaSOTA, Assemblyman, Fairbanks North Star Borough, distributed            
 a memorandum dated September 7, 1995 outlining a history of the               
 borough's authority to prosecute cruelty to animals.  A second                
 class borough can exercise powers that are approved by the voters             
 and the legislature.                                                          
 MR. LaSOTA said beginning in 1965, the voters approved dog control            
 and, in the ensuing years, various powers were granted by the state           
 through statute.                                                              
 MR. LaSOTA  talked about a recent incident involving an owner and             
 a pig.  The judge ruled that in a 1978 borough ordinance, the                 
 borough adopted more powers than it was entitled to.  Specifically,           
 in relation to cruelty to animals, the judge ruled that the borough           
 only has the power to prohibit cruelty to dogs.  Cats, pigs and               
 snakes are out of the borough's bounds.                                       
 MR. LaSOTA stated that further advice from their attorney indicated           
 that there were two options for the borough's cruelty ordinance: go           
 to the voters or have the legislature grant those powers.                     
 MR. LaSOTA said the FNSB intent is to get back those powers and the           
 borough passed resolution 95-062 relating to cruelty to animals.              
 MR. LaSOTA said that by asking the state to grant these additional            
 powers, there will be no additional fiscal impact.  He said the               
 proposed committee substitute for HB 386 is the best vehicle to               
 attain what the borough needs.                                                
 Number 1442                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES clarified that the operative word in the bill           
 is "may" and does not require any municipality to adopt this.  It             
 just allows them to adopt it.                                                 
 MR. LaSOTA said that his intent is, if legislation passes during              
 this session, to bring forth an ordinance and hold lengthy public             
 hearings.  If the legislation does not pass, his intention is to              
 put it on the ballot.                                                         
 Number 1505                                                                   
 ANNE CARPENETI, Attorney, Criminal Division, Department of Law,               
 testified that the department supports the committee substitute for           
 HB 386.  She clarified that this is still a crime and if the state            
 brings charges under this statute, we are obliged to prove our case           
 beyond a reasonable doubt in order to obtain a conviction.  She               
 said by changing the mental states required for the state to prove            
 its case, you are still requiring the state to prove that the                 
 defendant who is charged with the offense acted, at least, under              
 paragraph 2, with criminal negligence which is different from the             
 standard in civil negligence.  She said this is found in the                  
 definition section of Title 11.  A criminal negligence is a gross             
 deviation from the standard of reasonable care.  Civil negligence             
 is less of a deviation.  This bill does not reduce the standard of            
 burden of proof in terms of reducing it beyond any state of a                 
 crime.  The state is obliged to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt,             
 that the person acted with criminal negligence under paragraph 2,             
 and knowingly under paragraph 1.                                              
 Number 1631                                                                   
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked the wish of the committee.                            
 Number 1637                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES moved that CSHB 386 amended (RES) move from             
 the House Resources Committee with individual recommendations and             
 attached fiscal note and a note from Chairman Green to the House              
 Judiciary Committee to consider the issue of "regulation."  There             
 was an objection, so a roll call vote was taken.  Representatives             
 Austerman, Davies, Kott, Long, Nicholia, Williams and Green voted             
 in favor of moving the bill.  Representative Ogan voted against               
 moving the bill.  So CSHB 386 (RES) moved from the House Resources            
 There being no further business to come before the House Resources            
 Committee, Chairman Green adjourned the meeting at 9:32 a.m.                  

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