Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/21/1995 03:10 PM L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
          HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE                          
                         April 21, 1995                                        
                           3:10 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Pete Kott, Chairman                                            
 Representative Norman Rokeberg, Vice Chairman                                 
 Representative Jerry Sanders                                                  
 Representative Beverly Masek                                                  
 Representative Kim Elton                                                      
 Representative Brian Porter                                                   
 Representative Gene Kubina                                                    
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 None                                                                          
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 HB 260:   "An Act relating to marine pilots and the Board of Marine           
           Pilots; extending the termination date of the Board of              
           Marine Pilots; and providing for an effective date."                
                                                                               
           HEARD AND HELD                                                      
                                                                               
 HB 236:   "An Act relating to reductions in compensation for state            
           officers and employees; and providing for an effective              
           date."                                                              
                                                                               
           HEARD AND TABLED                                                    
                                                                               
 HB 144:   "An Act relating to salaries for officers and employees             
           of the state who are not members of a collective                    
           bargaining unit; and providing for an effective date."              
                                                                               
           PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                             
                                                                               
 HB 298:   "An Act making appropriations for the monetary terms of             
           the collective bargaining agreement with the Alaska                 
           Public Employees Association, Supervisory Unit; and                 
           providing for an effective date."                                   
                                                                               
           PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                             
                                                                               
 HB 299:   "An Act making appropriations for the monetary terms of             
           the collective bargaining agreement with the                        
           Inlandboatmen's Union of the Pacific; and providing for             
           an effective date."                                                 
                                                                               
           PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                             
                                                                               
 HB 300:   "An Act making appropriations for the monetary terms of             
           the collective bargaining agreement with Public Employees           
           Local 71, Labor, Trades and Crafts Unit; and providing              
           for an effective date."                                             
                                                                               
           PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                             
                                                                               
 HB 305:   "An Act making appropriations to satisfy the agreed upon            
           monetary terms of a collective bargaining agreement for             
           certain employees of the University of Alaska; and                  
           providing for an effective date."                                   
                                                                               
           PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                             
                                                                               
 HB 251:   "An Act relating to Native corporations."                           
                                                                               
           BILL POSTPONED                                                      
                                                                               
 HB 232:   "An Act establishing an economic development tax credit;            
           and providing for an effective date."                               
                                                                               
           BILL POSTPONED                                                      
                                                                               
 HB 288:   "An Act relating to procurement preferences for                     
           corporations and partnerships owned by persons with                 
           disabilities."                                                      
                                                                               
           BILL POSTPONED                                                      
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 DAN TWOHIG, Coordinator                                                       
 Board of Marine Pilots                                                        
 Department of Commerce and                                                    
 Economic Development                                                          
 P.O. Box 110806                                                               
 Juneau, AK 99811-0806                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2548                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 260                           
                                                                               
 PAUL FUHS, Lobbyist                                                           
 Southwest Alaska Pilots Association                                           
 10652 Porter Lane                                                             
 Juneau, AK 99801                                                              
 Telephone:  (907) 790-3030                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 260                                      
                                                                               
 CAPTAIN RICHARD GURRY, President                                              
 Southeastern Alaska Pilots Association                                        
 Box 6100                                                                      
 Ketchikan, AK 99901                                                           
 Telephone:  (907) 225-9697                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 260                                      
                                                                               
 BOB EVANS, Lobbyist                                                           
 Alaska Marine Pilots                                                          
 2822 Iliamna Avenue                                                           
 Anchorage, AK 99517                                                           
 Telephone:  (907) 364-3360                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in HB 260                                      
                                                                               
 BRUCE WEYHRAUCH, Representative                                               
 Southeast Alaska Pilots Association                                           
 302 Gold Street                                                               
 Juneau, AK 99801                                                              
 Telephone:  (907) 586-2210                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in HB 260                                      
                                                                               
 GAYLE HORETSKI, Assistant Attorney General                                    
 Commercial Section                                                            
 Civil Division                                                                
 Department of Law                                                             
 P.O. Box 110300                                                               
 Juneau, AK 99811-0300                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3600                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 260                                      
                                                                               
 JOE KYLE                                                                      
 Alaska Steamship Association                                                  
 234 Gold Street                                                               
 Juneau, AK 99801                                                              
 Telephone:  (907) 586-3107                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 260                                      
                                                                               
 ART SNOWDEN, Administrative Director                                          
 Central Office                                                                
 Alaska Court System                                                           
 303 "K" Street                                                                
 Anchorage, AK 99501-2084                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 246-0547                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 236                        
                                                                               
 MARK BOYER, Commissioner                                                      
 Department of Administration                                                  
 P.O. Box 110200                                                               
 Juneau, AK 99811-0200                                                         
 Telephone:  465-2200                                                          
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 236                                      
                                                                               
 WENDY REDMAN, Vice President                                                  
 Statewide University System                                                   
 University of Alaska                                                          
 P.O. Box 155000                                                               
 Fairbanks, AK 99775                                                           
 Telephone:  (907) 474-7311                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 305                                      
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 260                                                             
 SHORT TITLE: MARINE PILOTS                                                    
 SPONSOR(S): TRANSPORTATION                                                    
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 03/15/95       745    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/15/95       745    (H)   TRANSPORTATION, LABOR & COMMERCE                  
 03/22/95              (H)   TRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 03/22/95              (H)   MINUTE(TRA)                                       
 03/24/95              (H)   TRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/05/95              (H)   TRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/05/95              (H)   MINUTE(TRA)                                       
 04/07/95      1170    (H)   TRA RPT  CS(TRA) 2DP 2NR 2AM                      
 04/07/95      1171    (H)   DP: BRICE, WILLIAMS                               
 04/07/95      1171    (H)   NR: MACLEAN, SANDERS                              
 04/07/95      1171    (H)   AM: JAMES, G.DAVIS                                
 04/07/95      1171    (H)   FISCAL NOTE (DCED)                                
 04/12/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/12/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/18/95      1356    (H)   FIN REFERRAL ADDED                                
 04/19/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/19/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/21/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 236                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: REDUCTION IN STATE EMPLOYEE COMPENSATION                         
 SPONSOR(S): FINANCE                                                           
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 03/06/95       597    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/06/95       597    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE, FINANCE                         
 03/17/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 03/17/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 03/20/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 03/20/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/01/95              (H)   L&C AT 01:00 PM FAHRENKAMP ROOM 203               
 04/07/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/08/95              (H)   L&C AT 01:00 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                    
 04/21/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                              
 BILL:  HB 144                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: NONUNION STATE EMPLOYEE SALARY INCREASE                          
 SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST                                                  
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 02/01/95       200    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/01/95       200    (H)   FINANCE                                           
 04/10/95      1226    (H)   L&C REFERRAL ADDED                                
 04/19/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/19/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/21/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 298                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: APPROP: MONETARY TERM APEA SUPERVISOR CONTRACT                   
 SPONSOR(S): FINANCE                                                           
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 04/05/95      1027    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 04/05/95      1027    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE, FINANCE                         
 04/19/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/19/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/21/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 299                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: APPROP: MONETARY TERM IBU CONTRACT                               
 SPONSOR(S): FINANCE                                                           
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 04/05/95      1028    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 04/05/95      1028    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE, FINANCE                         
 04/19/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/19/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/21/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 300                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: APPROP: MONETARY TERM LOCAL 71 CONTRACT                          
 SPONSOR(S): FINANCE                                                           
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 04/05/95      1028    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 04/05/95      1028    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE, FINANCE                         
 04/19/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/19/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/21/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                              
 BILL:  HB 305                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: APPROP: UNIV. OF AK LABOR AGREEMENTS                             
 SPONSOR(S): FINANCE                                                           
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG                  ACTION                                   
 04/11/95      1237    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 04/11/95      1237    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE, FINANCE                         
 04/19/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/19/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/21/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 251                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: NATIVE CORPORATIONS                                              
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MOSES,MacLean,Williams                          
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 03/15/95       741    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/15/95       741    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE                                  
 03/27/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 03/27/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 03/29/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 03/29/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/05/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/05/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/10/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/10/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/12/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/12/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/21/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                              
 BILL:  HB 232                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TAX CREDIT                                  
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KOTT                                            
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 03/06/95       590    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/06/95       590    (H)   ECD, STA, L&C, FINANCE                            
 03/21/95              (H)   ECD AT 09:00 AM CAPITOL 17                        
 03/21/95              (H)   MINUTE(ECD)                                       
 03/22/95       850    (H)   ECD RPT  CS(ECD) 6DP                              
 03/22/95       850    (H)   DP: KELLY, MOSES, MACLEAN, KOHRING                
 03/22/95       850    (H)   DP: SANDERS, ROKEBERG                             
 03/22/95       850    (H)   INDETERMINATE FISCAL NOTE (REV)                   
 03/22/95       850    (H)   FISCAL NOTE (DCED)                                
 04/04/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 04/04/95              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                       
 04/06/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 04/06/95              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                       
 04/11/95              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                       
 04/11/95              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                       
 04/18/95      1345    (H)   STA RPT  CS(STA) 4DP 2NR                          
 04/18/95      1346    (H)   DP: GREEN, PORTER, JAMES, OGAN                    
 04/18/95      1346    (H)   NR: WILLIS, ROBINSON                              
 04/18/95      1346    (H)   INDETERMINATE FISCAL NOTE (REV)                   
 04/18/95      1346    (H)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DCED)                           
 04/21/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                              
 BILL:  HB 288                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: PROCUREMENT PREFERENCES/STATE LEASES                             
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES                                           
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 03/29/95       979    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/29/95       979    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE                                  
 04/03/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/03/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/07/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 04/07/95              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 04/21/95              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                               
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-42, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 The House Labor and Commerce Committee meeting was called to order            
 by Chairman Pete Kott at 3:10 p.m.  Members present at the call to            
 order were Representatives Sanders, Kubina, Elton, Masek, Rokeberg            
 and Kott.  Representative Porter had not arrived.                             
                                                                               
 HB 260 - MARINE PILOTS                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 030                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN PETE KOTT announced the first order of business would be             
 HB 260, "An Act relating to marine pilots and the Board of Marine             
 Pilots; extending the termination date of the Board of Marine                 
 Pilots; and providing for an effective date."                                 
                                                                               
 DAN TWOHIG, Coordinator, Board of Marine Pilots, Department of                
 Commerce and Economic Development (DCED), testified via                       
 teleconference.  He said he supports the bill as it is currently              
 written.  He referred to Amendment 0.1, which deals with pilotage             
 tariffs and establishing a maximum tariff, and said the DCED takes            
 no position on the tariff issue.                                              
                                                                               
 MR. TWOHIG referred to Amendment 0.2, relating to Section 2, which            
 removes the extra seats on the board, and said the DCED supports              
 the amendment.                                                                
                                                                               
 MR. TWOHIG referred to Amendment 3, which will add additional                 
 language to the cross regional licensing temporary license issue,             
 and said the department supports it.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 078                                                                    
                                                                               
 PAUL FUHS, Lobbyist, Southwest Alaska Pilots Association, was next            
 to testify.  He stated his organization hasn't taken a position on            
 the composition of the board.  He said it was probably an oversight           
 to include the ability to relicense someone the next year if the              
 shortage continues and if the commissioner finds there is a                   
 continuing shortage.  Mr. Fuhs showed the committee a map showing             
 the sizes of the three regions that currently exist.  He said he              
 doesn't support cross regionalization.  The regions are very large            
 and if you could keep up with what is going on within the regions,            
 you would be doing well.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 100                                                                    
                                                                               
 CAPTAIN RICHARD GURRY, President, Southeastern Alaska Pilots                  
 Association, was next to come before the committee.  He noted the             
 Southeastern Alaska Pilots Association is headquartered in                    
 Ketchikan, Alaska.  Captain Gurry read his statement into the                 
 record:                                                                       
                                                                               
 "I appreciate the opportunity to testify before this committee                
 today.  While we have several concerns about HB 260, which amends             
 the Marine Pilot Act, I am going to focus only briefly on two                 
 aspects under consideration by this committee.                                
                                                                               
 "First, cross regionalization; second, composition of the Board of            
 Marine Pilots; and, correct myself there is a third, the third is             
 a request by shipping companies to impose a maximum tariff on pilot           
 service fees.                                                                 
                                                                               
 "First, cross regionalization.  We oppose cross regionalization.              
 We oppose cross regional licensing and support the Department of              
 Commerce's position on this issue.                                            
                                                                               
 "Second, composition of the Board of Marine Pilots.  We support the           
 current composition of the board and no additions of industry                 
 representatives on the board.  The board should be comprised                  
 primarily of pilots who are regulated by the board; and public                
 members because it is the public's interest that should be overseen           
 by the board.  We oppose adding additional industry members on this           
 board.  Industry agents are not restricted to working in regions as           
 pilots are and, therefore, cannot offer specific expertise that a             
 pilot can whose expertise lies only within a particular region.               
 Larger boards are more cumbersome, more costly and less effective.            
 Perhaps the best board make up would have three pilots, one from              
 each region, three public members and one state representative.               
 The board should be maintained as a Board of Marine Pilots and not            
 a Board of Marine Agents.                                                     
                                                                               
 "Third, the maximum tariff.  The State Board of Marine Pilots                 
 wrestled with a maximum tariff for several years.  We spent                   
 countless hours on this matter taking up valuable board time which            
 could have been used on more pertinent issues such as safety and              
 training.  Since last year, there has been no tariff for marine               
 pilots, there have been no pilot shortages and no price gouging.              
 We now hear from industry that a mechanism is needed for price                
 disputes and to prevent work stoppages.  SEAPA pilots have                    
 addressed both of these concerns in our contracts with cruise ship            
 companies. Dispute resolution and automatic contract extensions               
 have been suggested in every contract with vessel companies.  Some            
 companies have opted for these and some have not.  Pilotage rates             
 are below the tariffs set by the board in 1991.  The reason why               
 they are below is because pilots offered to discount their rates in           
 exchange for long-term commitments.  These commitments are needed             
 in order for us to project our future pilotage requirements.  In              
 testimony before this committee on Wednesday, industry                        
 representatives suggested that there would be pilot shortage this             
 year.  The SEAPA pilots currently have 31 pilots on our roster.               
 Not all of our members have renewed their license at this time.               
 Many of our members would like to work a fuller schedule this                 
 summer, but because of lack of projected work, they have chosen to            
 only work part-time.  Industry has never specified a single blaring           
 problem that now actually exists, in fact, as a consequence of the            
 repealed maximum tariff.  If industry is worried about the price              
 and availability of pilots then it is incumbent upon the state to             
 heavily regulate pilots to ensure that they are available and                 
 highly trained.  A maximum tariff undercuts the system that the               
 legislature has tried to enact, which is a competitive pilotage               
 system.                                                                       
                                                                               
 "Historically, under a state set maximum tariff, the board set the            
 maximum tariff that could be charged but had no oversight over the            
 actual amounts charged between pilots and vessels under private               
 contracts.  Maximum tariff does not either actively regulate                  
 pilotage or let pilots freely compete and this has serious                    
 repercussions.  When there is competition, the market place decides           
 the price and the Sherman Antitrust Act Law enforces competition              
 and punishes those who conspired to restrain trade.  When there is            
 active state supervision of a private party, there is immunity from           
 antitrust laws.  However, under a maximum tariff true market forces           
 are thwarted by establishing an artificial price ceiling and                  
 pilotage associations cannot enjoy antitrust immunity under a                 
 maximum tariff provision because there is not active supervision of           
 pilotage prices actually charged.  Therefore, we support leaving              
 the bill as is - without a maximum tariff.  Thank you.                        
                                                                               
 Number 197                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked Captain Gurry how much of the work that            
 his organization does is provided to shippers that are under                  
 contract.  He also asked how much of the pilotage work is done                
 through people that they don't have contracts for.                            
                                                                               
 CAPTAIN GURRY said very close to 100 percent is done under                    
 contract.  They have contracts that are through agents, and the               
 scope of the vessels that they cover, the ships can come from                 
 anywhere.  They represent such a broad scope of ships - different             
 companies from different companies.  He said it would be very                 
 cumbersome for them to get individual contracts from all the                  
 different freighter companies throughout the world, so they                   
 contract out with the agent that represents all those companies.              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said the contract with the agent would set a             
 price for an individual (indisc.)                                             
                                                                               
 CAPTAIN GURRY said that is correct.  He noted it would cover any              
 vessel that came in under the agent's authority.                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said any vessel that comes in probably has an            
 agent.  CAPTAIN GURRY responded in the affirmative.                           
                                                                               
 Number 224                                                                    
                                                                               
 BOB EVANS, Lobbyist, Alaska Marine Pilots, explained he was in                
 attendance to speak to the maximum tariff.  He said he has heard              
 some concerns that the maximum tariff is necessary in order to                
 avoid antitrust concerns on a federal level.  Mr. Evans said he has           
 given committee members a letter from Mark Ashburn, with Ashburn              
 and Mason, which speaks to the fact that Sections 12 and 16 of the            
 bill takes care of any concern about a maximum tariff.  It provides           
 the level of regulation, according to them, that is at least as               
 good as a maximum tariff.  Additionally, if that is a concern, his            
 comments in the past have indicated a fixed tariff would make more            
 sense.  Mr. Evans said they are not asking for that at this time.             
 This view is not only shared by Mr. Ashburn, who is formally the              
 head of the Antitrust Section of the Attorney Generals Office, but            
 it is shared by Dick Monkman, who is now the head of the Antitrust            
 Section, and Mr. Weyhrauch who is with Faulkner Banfield.                     
                                                                               
 MR. EVANS said it has been suggested that this is a concern as a              
 result of FTC versus TICORE.  That case does not fall on all fours            
 with the context - the facts of this case.  That case is                      
 distinguishable from the facts in Alaska.  TICORE involves the                
 independent businesses that operate as title companies.  Each of              
 them independent of one another that come together as independent             
 businesses, set a price and then offer that to some state authority           
 which, in turn, will have to take some negative action to prevent             
 that from becoming the price.  If they fail to reject the price               
 then the price goes forward as the price for the title companies.             
 These are independent businesses.  The factual context of Alaska is           
 that these organizations, which are independent entities, will fix            
 a price, set an amount, within the organization.  Mr. Evans said              
 there is nothing in the statute that says the Southeast Alaska                
 Pilots Association (SEAPA) is supposed to sit down with Alaska                
 Coastwise Pilots (ACP) and set a price or another organization.               
 There is no price setting from one business entity to another which           
 makes FTC versus TICORE not applicable to the facts of this case.             
                                                                               
 MR. EVANS said there are two reasons off the top.  The statutory              
 provisions in the bill before the committee takes care of the                 
 concern of a maximum tariff for antitrust problems.  The FTC versus           
 TICORE is not applicable based upon the different factual context.            
 Mr. Evans said he would point out that the people at risk are the             
 individual businesses.  They are not industry, it is not the state,           
 is not anybody but themselves with the advice of their counsel and            
 their own independent business decisions, they are prepared to take           
 that risk.  Public safety is not an issue here.  This is a                    
 business/legal decision of these organizations.  Mr. Evans said               
 there is no good reason why the state ought to involve themselves             
 in that kind of a decision.                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. EVANS referred to the maximum tariff and said if it is put in             
 place, it will give a negotiating tool to one side that is not                
 available to the pilots.  In the past when the maximum tariff                 
 existed, there were no contracts.  The individual pilot groups had            
 to take what came whenever it came.  There is no market share.                
 They serviced the industry at the whim at getting a call or not               
 getting a call.  The maximum tariff that went away last year has              
 brought more stability in the shipping lanes of the state of Alaska           
 than anything that has occurred since 1991.  He urged the committee           
 to reject the amendment which establishes a maximum tariff.                   
                                                                               
 Number 293                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked what the length of time has been that           
 there hasn't been a maximum tariff.  MR. EVANS said since June,               
 1994.                                                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked how many contracts have been entered            
 into since that time.  He also asked what the atmosphere has been             
 between industry and the pilots.                                              
                                                                               
 MR. EVANS said he could only speak for the organization he                    
 represents.  He said they have signed one contract which amounts to           
 about 21 percent of the work in their region.  They are currently             
 going through active negotiations with several others.  He said his           
 organization has been told that there is probably not much reason             
 in negotiating until the legislature decides whether there is going           
 to be a maximum tariff.  He said other representatives could                  
 probably give a better answer to the number of contracts that have            
 been signed.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 310                                                                    
                                                                               
 BRUCE WEYHRAUCH, Representative, Southeast Alaska Pilots                      
 Association, was next to come before the committee to testify.  He            
 said in their capacity as attorneys representing the individuals              
 who are working for pilot associations, the Southeast Alaska Pilots           
 Association is not recommending that they would enjoy antitrust               
 immunity under a maximum tariff provision.  If the Department of              
 Law suggests that it is better than nothing, then his organization            
 would like an indemnity provision from the Department of Law that             
 they will reimburse SEAPA for their legal fees and any damages they           
 have to pay for an antitrust judgement.  Currently, the                       
 negotiations between the pilot associations and the companies                 
 involved are at arm's length with transactions between two private            
 parties over the terms of a contract, and that is what the                    
 legislature deemed which should take place in 1991 -- a competitive           
 system of pilotage.                                                           
                                                                               
 MR. WEYHRAUCH said unless the state actively and aggressively                 
 supervises marine pilots, they will always face this antitrust                
 threat.  So it is active supervision by the state of every aspect,            
 not just price.  It includes training, entry, discipline,                     
 everything, and clearly articulating that policy to displace                  
 competition in the statue.  That is what it will take before they             
 recommend that they have antitrust immunity.                                  
                                                                               
 MR. WEYHRAUCH said if a maximum tariff is imposed, why not a                  
 minimum tariff on the industry.  He referred to the industry side             
 of the issue and asked why the pilots should take all the heat.               
                                                                               
 Number 337                                                                    
                                                                               
 GAYLE HORETSKI, Assistant Attorney General, Commercial Section,               
 Civil Division, Department of Law, came forward to testify.  She              
 said the Department of Law would decline to accept Mr. Weyhrauch's            
 invitation to indemnify them for their legal expenses.  Ms.                   
 Horetski said she has personally spoken with Mr. Robert Schoder,              
 Attorney, Federal Trade Commission (FTC), in Seattle.  She informed           
 the committee the FTC issued a generalized report about competition           
 in the pilotage industry in Alaska.  Mr. Schoder told her that the            
 FTC agrees with the Department of Law's interpretation of the                 
 TICORE case as it applies to antitrust immunity, under federal law,           
 for pilot associations.  She said she did invite representatives of           
 pilot associations to share with her any letters or memorandums               
 that they received from Mr. Ashburn on this issue.  She noted that            
 several days ago the issue about Mr. Ashburn having a contrary                
 opinion was first brought up in the Senate.  To date, she hasn't              
 seen anything in writing on that.  She said she can't really                  
 respond to what Mr. Ashburn has allegedly said since she hasn't               
 seen any documentation.                                                       
                                                                               
 There being no questions of Ms. Horetski, Mr. Kyle was next to                
 testify.                                                                      
                                                                               
 JOE KYLE, Alaska Steamship Association, said he would like to                 
 clarify a couple of things.  He referred to the maximum tariff and            
 said he would like to remind the committee that what industry is              
 concerned about is not a maximum tariff so much as an impasse where           
 pilots and shippers cannot agree on a price.  Mr. Kyle referred to            
 Captain Gurry's testimony and said he thinks that he gave a great             
 example of how likely it is that they are not going to be able to             
 agree all the time when he suggested that the industry be                     
 disenfranchised from the process of the Marine Pilot Board.  Mr.              
 Kyle said they are a major stakeholder in this entire process.                
 They have hugh capital investments that they entrust to the care of           
 pilots when they move into state waters.  They want to be a player            
 in the process that regulates those pilots.                                   
                                                                               
 MR. KYLE referred to the issue of maximum tariffs being before the            
 committee and said it is because the industry has already tried               
 binding arbitration with the pilots as a dispute resolution                   
 mechanism.  The pilots shot that down.  They then tried a mediation           
 process with the legislature.  The pilots shot that down.  Now                
 we're back where we were before which is maximum tariffs.  Mr. Kyle           
 said different people will give different versions as to how well             
 the maximum tariff worked since 1991.  The reason it is back before           
 the legislature is because they knew where they were with the                 
 maximum tariff.                                                               
                                                                               
 MR. KYLE said he doesn't know how binding arbitration, competition            
 and mediation hurts pilots.  He referred to the experience they had           
 with the maximum tariffs over the last three years and said he                
 doesn't know how that hurts pilots.  Mr. Kyle said he would like to           
 remind the committee that there needs to be some kind of mechanism            
 in the Marine Pilot Act to get a handle on tariffs so the industry            
 has some protection.                                                          
                                                                               
 MR. KYLE referred to Mr. Weyhrauch's comment about pilot                      
 associations and the companies involved are at arm's length and               
 said that isn't accurate when the companies are required, by law,             
 to engage the services of pilots.  He said they are open to                   
 mediation and arbitration.  Since that hasn't been satisfactory to            
 the pilots, they are at the maximum tariff and that is what his               
 association currently supports.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 397                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. WEYHRAUCH said, for the record, the pilot's have asked in their           
 contracts for arbitration provisions.  The companies have rejected            
 those in contracts.  The pilots are out there, they want to work on           
 their own and they don't need the paternalistic attitude of                   
 industry trying to look out for their interests.  He said they are            
 ready to compete if that is what the legislature wants them to do.            
                                                                               
 Number 410                                                                    
                                                                               
 There being no further witnesses to testify on the measure,                   
 CHAIRMAN KOTT closed public testimony.  He said the committee has             
 three proposed amendments before them 01, 02 and 03, Utermohle,               
 dated 4/20/95.  Chairman Kott moved Amendment 1.  He noted the                
 amendment was requested by bill's prime sponsor.  The suggestion              
 was that maximum tariff be established.  Amendment 1 restores the             
 language that existed prior to the exploration of the maximum                 
 tariff.                                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA put a call on the committee.  CHAIRMAN KOTT             
 announced the committee would take an at ease at 3:35 p.m.  The               
 House Labor and Commerce Committee was called back to order at 3:37           
 p.m.                                                                          
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said the call has been satisfied.  He said Amendment            
 1 has been moved.  He asked if there was an objection.                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA objected for the purpose of discussion.  He             
 said it seems like a maximum tariff would give a half of a                    
 solution.  He indicated it doesn't seem like there is open                    
 competition.  Representative Kubina said he would be very                     
 supportive of binding arbitration and the board could be the                  
 arbitrator.  At least somebody is making a decision and they are              
 hearing both sides of the story.  To put a cap on it seems like the           
 legislature is taking one side's point of view.  He said he would             
 support binding arbitration, total competition or mediation.                  
 Representative Kubina said the amendment appears to take one side             
 over the other.                                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said the state has essentially mandated that                    
 shippers/transporters are going to have to have pilots on board.              
 The board will determine the maximum tariff.  He noted the board              
 consists of public members, shippers and pilots.  Between the three           
 of those groups, they should come up with a rational approach.                
 Chairman Kott said Representative Kubina is right to a degree that            
 they are somewhat curbing free and open market competition by                 
 establishing a maximum ceiling on what can be charged.  Currently,            
 as it stands in some of the regions there is not competition                  
 anyway.  So what would prevent those individual groups from                   
 establishing whatever tariff they want to establish within reason.            
                                                                               
 Number 456                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA referred to his region, Prince William Sound,           
 Region 2, and said there is no competition for tanker traffic                 
 coming in and out of the sound.  He noted it is very substantive.             
 It doesn't appear they're having a problem there.  Representative             
 Kubina said he would be more in support of the board deciding.  He            
 suggested not setting a cap, but let the board set the rate.                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said there may be some severe problems with letting             
 the board set a rate as there may be problems in agreeing to that             
 rate.                                                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA referred to the amendment and said they're              
 setting a maximum rate.                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER commented that he has been all over the board           
 regarding the issue between safety, competition, etc.  The state              
 initiated this quandary by saying, "You will, shippers, have                  
 pilots.  We will establish standards for their experience and                 
 training and (indisc.--coughing) and you will put them on your                
 ships."  So the state has interjected itself once and said if you             
 don't, it's a crime.  That is a pretty heavy sanction.                        
 Representative Porter said, "To me, then saying, `But we're not               
 going to give you shippers any assistance in trying to reasonably             
 meet our expectation of being able to reasonably compensate pilots'           
 isn't there.  So from that standpoint, and I have some labor                  
 management experience in my background, I was taken (indisc.) when            
 I heard the representative of -- in effect management if this is              
 one of those kinds of issues saying, `Please give me binding                  
 arbitration.'  Wow!  Binding arbitration generally does not favor             
 management and my personal philosophy is such that unless employee            
 who has the right to strike, which obviously pilots have the right            
 to say `I'm not going,' binding arbitration seems to be                       
 inappropriate.  So to hear the industry saying give us binding                
 arbitration makes me believe that they're really in a vulnerable              
 position."  Representative Porter said he doesn't know that this is           
 appropriate answer but it is an answer and he is willing to give it           
 shot since it seems to have generated the contracts that are                  
 currently in existence.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 501                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said it is hard for him to think of this in              
 terms of labor management -- talking about two different types of             
 business groups.  He said he isn't as concerned about the major               
 shipping companies.  They're going to be operating under a                    
 contract.  It seems to him that the value of a maximum rate for an            
 agent that's bringing in a ship that might come in once a year or             
 once every three years seems to be the area in which there are                
 vulnerabilities.                                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said if the committee were not to adopt               
 Amendment 1 and leave the status quo as it currently is, there is             
 the threat of the FTC finding there is some antitrust violations.             
 He asked who would be penalized and what would be the corrective              
 action.                                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said he believes the answer would be the                
 pilot organizations who don't want this.                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said they don't want it but they would be             
 the ones to answer to it.                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he thinks that there is substantial                
 concern and this would go towards ameliorating that problem.                  
                                                                               
 Number 538                                                                    
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 1.  Voting in favor of the            
 amendment were Representatives Kott, Porter and Elton.   Voting               
 against Amendment 1 were Representatives Sanders, Kubina, Rokeberg            
 and Masek.  So Amendment 1 failed to be adopted.                              
                                                                               
 Number 547                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT moved Amendment 2 which restores the board back to              
 the existing composition as it currently exists.  Hearing no                  
 objection, Amendment 2 was adopted.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 550                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT stated Amendment 3 addresses the renewal of a license           
 by the commissioner in times of immanent shortage.  It makes it               
 simpler for him/her to continue with business under a shortage                
 condition.  He moved Amendment 3 be adopted.  He asked if there was           
 an objection.  Hearing none, Amendment 3 was adopted.                         
                                                                               
 Number 554                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA asked for a brief at ease at 4:50 p.m.                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT called the meeting back to order at 4:55 p.m.  He               
 handed the committee members Amendment 4 which deals with dispute             
 resolution.  Do to the extensive nature of the amendment, he said             
 he will hold the bill over pending the committees review of it.  He           
 said it would be brought up at another time.                                  
                                                                               
 At this point an at ease was taken.  The meeting was called back to           
 order at 3:58 p.m.                                                            
                                                                               
 HB 236 - REDUCTION IN STATE EMPLOYEE COMPENSATION                           
 Number 570                                                                    
                                                                               
 The next order of business was HB 236, "An Act relating to                    
 reductions in compensation for state officers and employees; and              
 providing for an effective date."                                             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said he would like thank the subcommittee chairman,             
 Representative Sanders, for holding extensive subcommittee                    
 hearings.                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said when the bill was put into a                      
 subcommittee, Chairman Kott asked them to try and find out what the           
 bill does, who it does it to, and to see what they could do to make           
 it more acceptable to the working public.  He said after ten hours            
 of public testimony and well over 1,000 letters, he feels that                
 everyone knows what they are doing and they all have a good                   
 understanding of who they're doing it to.  Now the committee needs            
 to review the numbers and see what, if anything, they can do to               
 make it acceptable to the public employees.  Representative Sanders           
 said earlier in the day he received information from Legislative              
 Research which is comprehensive.  It includes every employee in the           
 state.  Representative Sanders said, "What we need is more time,              
 Mr. Chairman, but it seems that for some reason unbeknownst to me,            
 there is no more time -- that his bill, Mr. Chairman, is so                   
 important that it must be rushed through.  I have never seen a bill           
 in my three sessions that had to move so fast with so little                  
 scrutiny, Mr. Chairman.  I just don't understand the urgency, but             
 for the unity of the majority, I am going to report this bill out             
 to the full Labor and Commerce Committee with the hope that as a              
 full committee, we can make a few adjustments that will ease the              
 pain caused by HB 236."  Representative Sanders referred to pay               
 schedules and said he would challenge anyone at the table to tell             
 him how many different pay schedules are floating around in Alaska            
 state government.  He said there are 180 different pay schedules              
 and every one of them are different.  Representative Sanders said             
 how anyone would expect the legislature to do something like this             
 in the short amount of time they have had, he doesn't understand.             
                                                                               
 Number 611                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said he appreciate all the work Representative                  
 Sanders has put into the matter.  He said he doesn't believe the              
 bill is being rushed to the next committee of referral.  The bill             
 has been in the House Labor and Commerce Committee for over a                 
 month.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 621                                                                    
                                                                               
 ART SNOWDEN, Administrative Director, Central Office, Alaska Court            
 System, came forward to testify in opposition to HB 236.  He said             
 our judges are about thirty-fifth in the nation in salary.  Over 70           
 percent of his employees within the Judiciary are range 15 or less.           
 They do not have a number of high paid employees and they would               
 respectfully seek exemption from the Judicial Branch from the                 
 application of the bill.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 630                                                                    
                                                                               
 MARK BOYER, Commissioner, Department of Administration, came                  
 forward to testify.  He thanked the committee for giving the                  
 Administration the opportunity to testify on the bill previously.             
 The Governor felt that given the lateness in the session and given            
 what they are currently doing at the bargaining table on a daily              
 basis.... (End of Tape)                                                       
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-42, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER BOYER continued, .... would do to the work force.  He            
 said they are unclear of what the goals are of the proposers of the           
 legislation.  If the goals are to reduce the personal services cost           
 to state government, the Governor and the Administration are                  
 absolutely in support of that goal.  They clearly understand the              
 need to reduce personal services costs over the next few years.               
 This bill, however, they feel is the wrong way to do it.  If the              
 goal is to change the Public Employees Relations Act (PERA), this             
 bill is also the wrong way to do that.  A more appropriate way to             
 change PERA, if the goal is to not have the Administration bargain            
 at the table over wages and benefits, is for the legislature to               
 change PERA taking the mandatory term of bargaining out of the act.           
 He said the Administration is unclear as to what the goal is.                 
 Commissioner Boyer said the Governor is looking for a way to deal             
 with personal services costs without creating such havoc in the               
 labor work force.  If the bill were enacted and were allowed to go            
 into law, the Governor has suggested that he will not allow the               
 kind of disruption to the work force that this bill would cause to            
 occur.  There are alternatives to reducing personal services if               
 that is the goal.  He said he would like to work with the                     
 legislature in achieving that goal.                                           
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER BOYER said the Governor is not prepared to encourage             
 the committee to go down a path that would have the Administration            
 unilaterally impose these terms and conditions on what could be as            
 many as 14,000 or 15,000 state employees.  He informed the                    
 committee that the Administration is currently negotiation with the           
 state's largest union which includes about 8,500 employees.  There            
 are three contracts that cover approximately 3,000.  If the bill              
 were passed and became law, the state would be forced to impose the           
 terms and conditions of this contract.  There would be major                  
 disruptions.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 012                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT referred to Commissioner Boyer saying that if the               
 intent is to change PERA, they should use a different vehicle.  He            
 asked if it is safe to assume that the Administration would be                
 supportive of seeking ways to improve the PERA system.                        
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER BOYER said there are changes to PERA that even the               
 current Administration would like at some point in the further.  He           
 said, "I'm not suggesting in any way, shape or form that the                  
 Governor would support a wholesale change in the complexion of the            
 Employment Relations Act.  I'm not suggesting that whatsoever.  I'm           
 suggesting that if that's your interest or the interest of the                
 legislature, that there is a much more straight forward way to do             
 that and a clear delineation, if you will, in the sand on that                
 issue.  This is not very clear.  This is not a clear way of dealing           
 with that issue."                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 025                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT referred to Commissioner Boyer saying that the                  
 Governor has suggested that he will not allow the kind of                     
 disruption to the work force that this bill would cause to occur              
 and said that suggests a veto.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 039                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA referred to Commissioner Boyer saying the               
 Governor is working on ways to deal with personnel costs and asked            
 if there is a bill, proposed by the Governor, that he thinks does             
 deal with personnel costs in a better way than HB 236.                        
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER BOYER said they are developing a number of initiatives           
 that will be introduced during the next legislative session that              
 will deal with a number of issues.  One bill that was introduced              
 this session are a couple of tools that will be necessary in                  
 downsizing environmental.  One tool is the change in the area cost            
 differential for non covered employees.  While the fiscal savings             
 in that piece of legislation are small, the implications of the               
 application of that statutory scheme in other contract environments           
 is quite immense.  Commissioner Boyer said the second tool has to             
 do with an early retirement incentive bill that has a private                 
 sector twist to it.  The private sector twist has two pieces.  One,           
 there is a voluntary cash separation piece that was borrowed from             
 the private sector.  ARCO has used that kind of a mechanism                   
 successfully to permanently downsize its operation.  He noted that            
 there are some up-front costs, but in the ARCO example for an up-             
 front expenditure of $39 million, they've reduced their work size             
 by 30 percent for a permanent reduction in personal costs of $25              
 billion per year for as long into the future as you can see.                  
 Commissioner Boyer said they see that as a tool that should be                
 available to the state as well as the private sector.                         
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER BOYER said, "The RIP (Retirement Incentive Program) is           
 a very surgical RIP.  We have an example, I hate to use this                  
 example here at the table, Mr. Chairman, but in Representative                
 Kubina's district we think that with the RIP as a tool, and the               
 voluntary separation piece as a tool, that we can craft a package             
 that when we look at Harborview Developmental Center that is in the           
 heart of his district - a hundred highly trained and skilled                  
 professionals providing services there, that as we stop doing that            
 service that we allow some of the people to RIP out of the system.            
 Some of the people whose jobs are disappearing to take a separation           
 pay.  And those people that are left at the bottom who aren't able            
 to take advantage of either one of those for one reason or another,           
 help those people through an attrition plan - move throughout the             
 system and stay employed if that is in fact what their choice is.             
 So we're hoping that you do give us the opportunity to use a couple           
 of the tools that we've introduced.  Long answer to a short                   
 question."                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 094                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said he thinks it is safe to assume that the reason             
 why the bill was introduced was to close the fiscal gap and to look           
 at wages and compensation.                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said he has prepared some amendments.  Amendment 1,             
 K.5 4/20/95, exempts the courts.  He said there has been testimony            
 that our court system and those individuals that work within the              
 court system are well down the ladder compared to other states.  He           
 said there was testimony from our Supreme Court Chief Justice                 
 alluded to the fact that they are over burdened with work and we're           
 asking them to do more.  On top of that, we're asking them to take            
 a reduction in pay at a point when court employees are way down on            
 the ladder to begin with.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 130                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER moved Amendment 1.  He explained he is                  
 familiar with the wage and benefit packages that exist in the                 
 Criminal Justice System.  He said he believes the Court System has            
 done a good job in trying to be frugal.  He said he believes                  
 Amendment 1 is an appropriate amendment and he supports it.                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if there was an objection to the adoption of              
 the amendment.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 146                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG objected for the purpose of discussion.  He           
 asked if there are other amendments.  CHAIRMAN KOTT said there are            
 four independent amendments.                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said he curious as to what criteria is being             
 applied to the court system.  CHAIRMAN KOTT said after listening to           
 the testimony by the court administrator as well as the chief                 
 justice and alluding to the fact how far behind our Judicial Branch           
 is as compared to other states, he thinks that with the amount of             
 work they are asked to do, it is only warranted that they be                  
 exempted from the measure.                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said Amendment 1 has been moved and asked if there              
 was an objection.  REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG withdrew his objection.            
 Hearing no further objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.                        
                                                                               
 Number 180                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT explained Amendment 2, K.6, dated 4/21/95.  He said             
 it strikes at the heart of the problem, from a public perspective,            
 that he heard from public testimony that we're cutting them 5                 
 percent, however, we're not really addressing ourselves.  He said             
 Amendment 2 conforms to many of the criticisms conveyed to the                
 committee by members of the public and that is that the legislators           
 took an increase in per diem this year.  The amendment restores the           
 per diem back to the 1993 level.  There is no option.  The per diem           
 would go back to $100 per day.  Chairman Kott said he isn't                   
 suggesting that the legislators aren't deserving of it or that it             
 isn't warranted, but in many cases it is warranted.  Every                    
 individual in the legislature has a different circumstance.  Some             
 have given up $30,000 or $40,000 a year jobs, some are maintaining            
 two households.  All that must be factored in.  He moved the                  
 amendment.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 202                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG objected for the purpose of discussion.  He           
 suggested an amendment to the amendment which would add a                     
 differential for the members of the legislature who are single and            
 also presently receiving state retirement income.  He suggested               
 lowering their per diem to $50 per day.                                       
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said he believes that is a hostile amendment to his             
 amendment.  He said the reason he would object to that is from a              
 constitutional perspective, we would be treating groups of                    
 individuals unequally based primarily on marital status.                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he would point out that it is the                
 policy of the state of Alaska to administer all employment benefits           
 on a differential between marital status.  That is the present                
 call.  There is nothing unconstitutional.  Representative Rokeberg            
 then withdrew his amendment to the amendment.                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said under this provision, if you live within 25                
 miles of where the legislature is convened, there is no per diem.             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if there was further discussion on Amendment 2.           
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG withdrew his objection.  CHAIRMAN KOTT                
 asked if there was further objection.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 250                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said he objects.  He explained he has gone on           
 record opposing this.  He said he thinks that the bill that it is             
 in "stinks."  He maintained his objection.                                    
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken.  Representatives Kott, Rokeberg,                  
 Porter, Masek and Sanders voted in favor of the amendment.                    
 Representatives Elton and Kubina voted against the amendment.  So             
 Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 269                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT referred to Amendment 3 and said the Administration             
 had testified that the bill probably doesn't get the intent of what           
 they're trying to do.  He said he agrees and thinks there are                 
 substantial problems with the measure in just making a wholesale              
 cross board cut.  It is great for this year, but in further years             
 it probably will have little affect.  Amendment 3, K.7, is to                 
 establish a three year wage freeze for all non covered employees.             
 That includes an increase of compensation based on merit for the              
 incremental annual increases.  He said we really have to hold the             
 line on wages.  Chairman Kott moved Amendment 3, K.7, dated                   
 4/21/95, be adopted.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 283                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON objected for the purpose of a comment.  He               
 said the people who haven't gotten the wage increases are the non             
 union people as they haven't gotten a pay increase in six years.              
 He said he will do everything he can to make the bill better so               
 that if it does unfortunately move out of the House Labor and                 
 Commerce Committee, at least they'll be moving something better               
 than what there currently is.  Amendment 3 is making the people who           
 have already paid the cost pay more.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 294                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS referred to Amendment 3 being a three year             
 wage freeze and asked if that would freeze the pay at the rate that           
 it is today and the 5 percent wouldn't apply.                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said the effective date of the bill would be the                
 effective date of everything in the bill.  If non covered (indisc.)           
 a 5 percent reduction, they would get the 5 percent reduction and             
 then there would be no increase for a period of up to three years.            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said he agrees with Representative Sanders in           
 that there is a conflict.  He referred to page 3, Section 9, and              
 said still sets out a new pay scale and these are non collective              
 (indisc.) people.  He said he believes that Section 9 should also             
 be deleted.  In other words, Section 9 cuts their pay by 5 percent            
 and then a three year wage freeze is being added.  He said he                 
 believes is what would happen if the amendment is adopted is you              
 would cut their pay 5 percent and then freeze it to three years.              
 Representative Kubina asked Chairman Kott if that is his intent.              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said that is his intent.  That is what the drafters             
 of the bill have informed him that is what would occur.                       
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA stated he objects.                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT referred ahead to a proposed Amendment 4 and said it            
 establishes a three year hiring freeze.                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if the freeze would apply to all the            
 wage schedules exclusive of the Alaska Court System.                          
                                                                               
 Number 338                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said because of all the confusion with Amendment 3,             
 he withdrew it.                                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT referred to Amendment 4, K.8, and said it establishes           
 a three year hiring freeze for the Executive Branch.  He moved                
 Amendment 4.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 344                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON objected.  He said he is willing to vote for             
 Amendment 4 under one condition which is that the House Labor and             
 Commerce Committee refer the bill back to subcommittee so that they           
 could go back to the public and say, "We've changed the parameters            
 of this bill dramatically.  We're no longer talking about a wage              
 cut.  We're talking about something that really gets into                     
 management.  We're talking about something that really gets into              
 management.  We're talking about not being able to hire people to             
 fill critical jobs whether they're in Corrections or Public Safety            
 or something else."  Representative Elton said if the bill sent               
 back to subcommittee so that new public testimony could be taken on           
 the whole new element, he would vote for it.  If the bill isn't               
 sent back to subcommittee, he believes the committee is doing the             
 public a disservice.  The bill is being made into something much              
 more dramatic.                                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said he feels he could vote for the                    
 amendment because it falls in line with his philosophy as he is in            
 favor of smaller government, not cheaper government.  He said he              
 thinks the amendment helps to accomplish that.                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said he is in favor of smaller government too.           
 He said when you talk about things like this, you have to talk                
 about not only cost but value and the service that government is              
 providing.  The amendment addresses cost, but we may have a problem           
 with value.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 379                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said the hiring freezes that he is used to              
 seeing have got a "fail safe" built into them that allow for                  
 emergency exceptions.  He said in review the bill, he didn't see a            
 "fail safe" that would qualify for the kind of situation that                 
 Representative Elton discussed.                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT referred to page l, line 8, "State agency may fill a            
 vacancy in a position if the department, commissioner or agency               
 head certifies that the agency needs to fill that specific                    
 positions to protect the health, safety and welfare of the public."           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he stands corrected and removed his                
 objection.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 390                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said he will have to vote against the bill as           
 it is a whole new way of looking at saving money.  No public                  
 testimony has been taken.  There hasn't been comments from the                
 department or the Administration.  There should be hearings held on           
 the bill.                                                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said an agency could fill a specific position to                
 protect the health, safety or welfare of the public.  He said the             
 statement is open ended and could almost be considered to be all              
 inclusive with every conceivable problem out there.                           
                                                                               
 Number 413                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said under the terms of the welfare of the            
 public, would the University of Alaska be able to hire a professor            
 of widgets in their school of business.  CHAIRMAN KOTT said he                
 would suppose so only if they're teaching widget construction.                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said he would be more apt to be able to vote            
 on that if the rest of the bill were deleted.  He said we're going            
 from a pay cut to a hiring freeze.  He said he would like to hear             
 that debate go forward.  Representative Kubina said he has a                  
 proposed amendment that he may bring forward after all other                  
 amendments are brought up.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 426                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said Amendment 4 is before the committee and there is           
 objection.  A roll call vote was taken.  Representatives Kott,                
 Sanders, Rokeberg, Masek and Porter voted in favor of adopting the            
 amendment.  Representative Kubina and Elton voted against the                 
 adoption of the amendment.  So Amendment 4 was adopted.                       
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if there were additional amendments.                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said he did have a proposed amendment, but             
 seeing the turn of events he said he would like to move to table              
 the bill until the committee has had time to study it and perhaps             
 bring it up at a later date.                                                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said he would object to the motion for the purpose of           
 discussion.                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked for an at ease.                                 
                                                                               
 An unidentified speaker said a motion to table is not debatable.              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the committee would take a brief at ease at           
 4:37 p.m.  The meeting was called back to order.                              
                                                                               
 Number 459                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT said there is a motion to table HB 236.  The motion             
 is not debatable.  There is objection.  He asked the committee                
 secretary to take a roll call vote.  Representatives Kubina, Masek,           
 Elton, Sanders and Rokeberg voted in favor of tabling HB 236.                 
 Representatives Porter and Kott voted against tabling the bill.  So           
 HB 236 was tabled until further notice.                                       
                                                                               
 HB 144 - NONUNION STATE EMPLOYEE SALARY INCREASE                            
                                                                               
 Number 470                                                                    
                                                                               
 The next order of business was HB 144, "An Act relating to salaries           
 for officers and employees of the state who are not members of a              
 collective bargaining unit; and providing for an effective date."             
                                                                               
 At 4:45 p.m. CHAIRMAN KOTT said the committee would take a five               
 minute at ease.  The meeting was called back to order at 4:50 p.m.            
 He announced the committee had before them five labor contract                
 bills and there are several people signed up to testify.  He said             
 it is the intent of the Chairman to pass the bills out in their               
 virgin form.  He said he would take them numerically, from HB 144             
 through HB 305.                                                               
                                                                               
 He asked if there was anyone to testify on HB 144.  There being no            
 response, he asked for a motion to move the bill.                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER moved to pass HB 144 out of the House Labor             
 and Commerce Committee with attached fiscal notes and individual              
 recommendations.  CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if there was an objection.              
 Hearing none, HB 144 was moved out of committee                               
                                                                               
 HB 298 - APPROP: MONETARY TERM APEA SUPERVISOR CONTRACT                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the next order of business would be HB 298,           
 "An Act making appropriations for the monetary terms of the                   
 collective bargaining agreement with the Alaska Public Employees              
 Association, Supervisory Unit; and providing for an effective                 
 date."  He asked if there was anyone wishing to testify.  There               
 being no testimony, he asked if there was any debate.                         
                                                                               
 There being no debate, REPRESENTATIVE PORTER moved to pass HB 298             
 out of the House Labor and Commerce Committee with attached fiscal            
 notes and individual recommendations.                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG objected for the purpose of a comment.  He            
 said he has a problem with the fact that the prior Administration             
 felt it needed to negotiate a contract which extended the work week           
 by 2.5 hours and add a substantial additional increase for that               
 amount of money.  Representative Rokeberg said that concerns him              
 from a conceptual standpoint, when we should be cutting the budget.           
 He then withdrew his objection.                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if there was further objection.  Hearing none,            
 HB 298 was moved out of the House Labor and Commerce Committee.               
                                                                               
 HB 299 - APPROP: MONETARY TERM IBU CONTRACT                                 
                                                                               
 Number 494                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the next bill before the committee would HB           
 299, "An Act making appropriations for the monetary terms of the              
 collective bargaining agreement with the Inlandboatmen's Union of             
 the Pacific; and providing for an effective date."  He asked if               
 there was anyone to testify.  There being no testimony, he asked if           
 there was debate.                                                             
                                                                               
 There being no debate, REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to move            
 HB 299 out of the House Labor and Commerce Committee with                     
 individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes.  Hearing no             
 objection, HB 299 was moved out of the House Labor and Commerce               
 Committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 HB 300 - APPROP: MONETARY TERM LOCAL 71 CONTRACT                            
                                                                               
 Number 500                                                                    
                                                                               
 HB 300, "An Act making appropriations for the monetary terms of the           
 collective bargaining agreement with Public Employees Local 71,               
 Labor, Trades and Crafts Unit; and providing for an effective                 
 date," was the next piece of legislation to come before the                   
 committee.  CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if there was anybody wishing to               
 testify.  There was nobody to testify.  Chairman Kott asked if                
 there was debate.                                                             
                                                                               
 There being no debate, REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to move            
 HB 300 out of the House Labor and Commerce Committee with                     
 individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes.  Hearing no             
 objection, HB 300 was moved out of the House Labor and Commerce               
 Committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 HB 305 - APPROP: UNIV. OF AK LABOR AGREEMENTS                               
                                                                               
 Number 506                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN KOTT announced HB 305, "An Act making appropriations to              
 satisfy the agreed upon monetary terms of a collective bargaining             
 agreement for certain employees of the University of Alaska; and              
 providing for an effective date," was the next order of business.             
 He asked if there was anyone wishing to testify.  There was nobody            
 to testify.  Chairman Kott asked if there was debate.                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said in another meeting the committee heard           
 testimony from the university.  He asked if HB 305 ameliorates some           
 of the problems that had been raised earlier.  CHAIRMAN KOTT said             
 he is sure it ameliorates some of the problems and alleviates some            
 of the concern.                                                               
                                                                               
 WENDY REDMAN, Vice President, Statewide University System,                    
 University of Alaska, said it is a very small unit consisting of              
 about 200 employees.  She explained it is just the crafts and                 
 trades.                                                                       
                                                                               
 There being no further debate, REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion            
 to move HB 305 out of the House Labor and Commerce Committee with             
 individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes.  Hearing no             
 objection, HB 305 was moved out of the House Labor and Commerce               
 Committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 There being no further business come before the House Labor and               
 Commerce Committee, CHAIRMAN KOTT adjourned the meeting at 4:59               
 p.m.                                                                          
                                                                               

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