Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/10/1995 01:04 PM House JUD
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HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
February 10, 1995
1:04 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Brian Porter, Chairman
Representative Joe Green, Vice Chairman
Representative Con Bunde
Representative Bettye Davis
Representative Al Vezey
Representative Cynthia Toohey
Representative David Finkelstein
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 39:"An Act relating to the authority of mobile intensive
care paramedics, physician assistants, and emergency
medical technicians to pronounce death under certain
circumstances."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
HB 4:"An Act relating to absences from the state for purposes
of determining residency under the permanent fund
dividend program; and providing for an effective date."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 421
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
Telephone: (907) 465-4797
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of CSHB 39
ANNE CARPENETI, Aide
House Judiciary Committee
State Capitol, Room 120
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
Telephone: (907) 465-4990
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on CSHB 39
MARK JOHNSON, Chief
Emergency Medical Services
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110616
Juneau, AK 99811-0616
Telephone: (907) 465-3027
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 39
ROD MOURANT, Legislative Aide
Representative Pete Kott
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 432
Juneau, AK 99811-1182
Telephone: (907) 465-3777
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented the sponsor statement for CSHB 4
JUDY ERICKSON
4465 Mountainside Drive
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 780-4995
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of CSHB 4
THOMAS C. WILLIAMS, Director
Permanent Fund Dividend Division
Department of Revenue
P.O. Box 110460
Juneau, AK 99811-0460
Telephone: (907) 465-2323
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of CSHB 4
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 39
SHORT TITLE: AUTHORITY TO PRONOUNCE DEATH
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT,B.Davis,Bunde,G.Davis
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/06/95 30 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/16/95 30 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/16/95 31 (H) HES, JUD
01/19/95 90 (H) COSPONSOR(S): BUNDE
01/26/95 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
01/26/95 (H) MINUTE(HES)
01/27/95 154 (H) HES RPT CS (HES) 7DP
01/27/95 154 (H) DP: ROKEBERG, G.DAVIS, BUNDE, TOOHEY
01/27/95 154 (H) DP: VEZEY, ROBINSON, BRICE
01/27/95 155 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DHSS) 1/27/95
01/27/95 161 (H) COSPONSOR(S): G.DAVIS
02/10/95 (H) JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HB 4
SHORT TITLE: PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND ELIGIBILITY
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KOTT
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/06/95 21 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/16/95 21 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/16/95 21 (H) STA, JUD, FIN
01/24/95 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
01/24/95 (H) MINUTE(STA)
01/31/95 (H) MINUTE(STA)
02/01/95 190 (H) STA RPT 6DP 1NR
02/01/95 190 (H) DP: JAMES, PORTER, IVAN, ROBINSON
02/01/95 190 (H) DP: WILLIS, OGAN
02/01/95 190 (H) NR: GREEN
02/01/95 190 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (REV) 2/1/95
02/10/95 (H) JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-10, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Judiciary Standing Committee was called to order at 1:04
p.m. on Friday, February 10, 1995. A quorum was present. CHAIRMAN
BRIAN PORTER stated the following bills would be heard: CSHB 39,
and CSHB 4. He called Representative Therriault to come forward
and introduce the committee substitute for HB 39(HES).
HJUD - 2/10/95
HB 39 - AUTHORITY TO PRONOUNCE DEATH
Number 020
REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT, bill sponsor, introduced CSHB 39.
He said the intent was in certain circumstances, to grant the power
to those who do not normally have that authority, to declare
someone deceased. In rural Alaska there are many instances where
there is no doctor, so an emergency medical technician (EMT) or
medical assistant has responded to an accident. Once they start
cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR), they have a legal obligation
to continue until somebody relieves them of that duty by either
taking over for them, taking the patient to the emergency room, or
by declaring death. He worked closely with Emergency Medical
Services (EMS) providers to craft language that is fairly tight, so
this power is only extended to EMTs and physician assistants in
certain circumstances. Another consideration here in Alaska is
that there are bodies of water so cold that you have hypothermia
conditions, or cold water drowning. Special care needs to be taken
in those instances. Two proposed amendments were included in the
committee packets, which Representative Therriault supported.
REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY made a motion to adopt the committee
substitute, version F for HB 39.
Number 095
REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN wanted to know the difference
between the committee substitute and the original bill.
ANNE CARPENETI, House Judiciary Committee Council, said the only
change she found was on page 3, line 13. This version of the
committee substitute removes the material that was in the original
bill, "by emergency medical technician."
Number 110
REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT explained why that was done. What he
wanted the committee to consider, also removes the same language
from section (b) on page 3, lines 15 - 21. He said we are allowing
individuals to make a declaration of death, if they have properly
administered resuscitation efforts according to these two
requirements. That power would be extended to EMTs and to
physician assistants. The bill started out only providing this
authority to EMTs. Now it includes physician assistants, along
with other people already allowed by law. The intent of this
language is to make the law consistent. Amendment F.2 makes it
consistent.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY moved that F.2 dated 2/10/95, be adopted as
Amendment Number 1. This amendment would delete "by an emergency
medical technician" on page 3, lines 16 - 17. Hearing no
objection, it was so ordered.
Number 190
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY moved that F.1 be adopted as Amendment Number
2. This amendment would delete "cardiac arrest accompanied by"
from two places: Page 2, line 31, after "means"; and page 3, line
2. There was discussion on the amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT explained there had been concern
expressed by the Medical Association about the language on page 3,
where it talks about acceptable medical standards. They were
concerned over the presence of rigor mortis being enough, by itself
to determine the state of death. The EMS providers say they would
never just look at the postmortem lividity, discoloration; but they
would also check for a pulse, so cardiac arrest would also be
present. Section (a) says that cardiac arrest is part of its
determining factor. We are trying to make cardiac arrest part of
(a), (b), (c), and (d). So cardiac arrest and lividity would be
factors in determining death. The EMS providers felt comfortable
with that. He added that since the bill passed the Health,
Education and Social Services (HESS) Committee, the Interior Fire
Chiefs Association informed Representative Therriault they support
this bill.
Number 290
MARK JOHNSON, Chief, Emergency Medical Services Section, Department
of Health and Social Services, testified in support of the bill.
He said as Representative Therriault explained, sometimes our EMS
providers around the state, especially in rural areas, are expected
to continue resuscitative efforts long past the time when there is
no hope whatsoever of resuscitating the patient. The attempt here
is to give those workers a standard that will allow them to stop
efforts when the patient is dead. There is no case where somebody
met only one of the criteria in this bill and actually lived, so
this is a very tight standard we would be applying. The president
of the Alaska State Medical Society expressed concern that the
presence of postmortem lividity was not sufficient criteria by
itself. After a conference with Dr. Peter Nakamura, Director of
Public Health for Alaska and Dr. Michael Probst, Medical Examiner
for Alaska, Mr. Johnson concluded that the safe language would be
to say that the patient needed to have cardiac arrest accompanied
by (a), or (b), or (c), or (d). This would satisfy the criteria.
He felt a situation in which a patient could have lividity and not
be dead, was rare. The Department of Health and Social Services
felt comfortable with the language in this bill, after those
concerns were addressed.
Number 335
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked if there was any potential for
someone coming back against the state for deficient training in the
situation where someone, other than a doctor makes this judgement
call.
MR. JOHNSON did not believe they could because they would have to
show that there was a chance the patient would have survived. He
felt the state training standards were up to national standards.
Number 365
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, having been an EMT for 15 years on the
highway, they are very thoroughly trained in knowing death, seeing
death, and trying to prevent deaths. You will not find a better,
more aggressive group of people to prevent it, when possible. She
believed the language covered what was necessary, very well.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was any other discussion on
Amendment Number 2, or objection. Seeing none, the amendment was
adopted.
Number 420
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY made a motion to move the bill, with
individual recommendations and fiscal notes. Hearing no objection,
it was so ordered.
HJUD - 2/10/95
CSHB 4(STA) PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND ELIGIBILITY
Number 440
ROD MOURANT, Legislative Aide to Representative Pete Kott,
presented the sponsor statement for CSHB 4(STA). It reads as
follows:
"This legislation would remedy a problem as a result of a
recent court ruling. That ruling declared spouses of a
Permanent Fund Dividend (PFD) recipient from being considered
eligible to receive a dividend if they were accompanying an
eligible spouse out of state on an allowable absence.
"This legislation would allow individuals who accompany an
eligible spouse out of state on an allowable absence to retain
their eligibility for a PFD if that was the only reason that
they would have been disallowed.
"This correction applies retroactively to January 1, 1994, the
first time the Permanent Fund Dividend Division disallowed
dividends for that reason. It makes provision for those
individuals to receive the previously denied dividend.
"I encourage you to support this legislation."
Number 530
JUDY ERICKSON, Juneau resident, described her ex-husband's
experience with his permanent fund dividend. He was denied his
dividend because of an unexpected absence outside of Alaska, due to
a medical emergency. He has lived in Juneau for years, and
maintains a home here. He can only get his experimental treatment
for advanced kidney cancer in Seattle. Because they have two
children, it is very important for him to go through any kind of
treatment he can, to prolong his life. His wife has been denied
her PFD also because her staying in Seattle with him was not an
allowable absence. He is on pain medication 24 hours a day, should
not drive, needs constant care, and he needs her there to help. He
already has tremendous medical expenses and it does not seem right
to withhold her dividend because of this.
Number 555
THOMAS WILLIAMS, Director, Permanent Fund Dividend Division,
Department of Revenue, introduced Nancy Jones, who will be the new
director starting next Thursday. He said the department strongly
supports the reinstatement of the "piggyback" allowable absence,
which had been available in the past, up until the inadvertent
conflict between statute and regulation; which caused the
regulation to fall, as ruled by the court a little over a year ago.
He said they have taken steps to append applications so they can be
easily identified, should corrective legislation be enacted. Then
they can go ahead and pay folks who would have received their
dividends had it not been for this regulation conflict.
Number 650
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked Mr. Williams if it would be
practical and manageable for the Permanent Fund Dividend Division
to hold people's dividends, and then gave them to the people when
they returned to the state.
MR. WILLIAMS answered there was a mechanism by which that could
work. We could administer a system that would hold the dividends
of anyone who was absent for 180 consecutive days during the
qualifying year, until they returned and lived in the state for 90
days, basically qualifying for dividends during that time.
Number 700
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY moved to adopt draft F of the committee
substitute. Hearing no objection, CSHB 4, version F was adopted.
Number 780
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE said he would like to see some future
exploration on the possibility of holding juveniles' dividend
checks until they turn 18.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY made a motion to pass the bill from committee
with individual recommendations and the zero fiscal note. Seeing
no objection, it was so ordered.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the House Judiciary
Committee, Chairman Porter adjourned the meeting at 2:00 p.m.
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