Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/29/1996 01:15 PM JUD
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE March 29, 1996 1:15 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Brian Porter, Chairman Representative Joe Green, Vice Chairman Representative Con Bunde Representative Al Vezey Representative Cynthia Toohey Representative David Finkelstein MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Bettye Davis COMMITTEE CALENDAR CS FOR SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 175(FIN) am "An Act relating to correctional institutions and their administration, and to services provided to prisoners; amending the definition of `severely medically disabled' applicable to prisoners seeking special medical parole; and amending provisions of the correctional industries program, and extending the termination date of the Correctional Industries Commission and the program." - PASSED HCSCSSSSB 175(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: SB 175 SHORT TITLE: "NO FRILLS" PRISON ACT SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) DONLEY, Pearce, Halford, Leman, Kelly, Sharp, Green, Torgerson, Miller, Taylor, R. Phillips JRN-DATE JRN-DATE ACTION 05/06/95 1552 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 05/06/95 1552 (S) JUD, FIN 01/22/96 2197 (S) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED- NEW TITLE 01/22/96 2198 (S) REFERRAL(S) JUD, FIN 01/22/96 2197 (S) COSPONSOR: PEARCE 02/12/96 (S) JUD AT 2:10 PM BELTZ ROOM 211 02/12/96 (S) MINUTE(JUD) 02/14/96 2424 (S) JUD RPT CS 3DP 1DNP 1NR SAME TITLE 02/14/96 2424 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DHSS) 02/20/96 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 02/20/96 (S) MINUTE(FIN) 02/21/96 2486 (S) FIN RPT CS 4DP 1NR SAME TITLE 02/21/96 2487 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO CS (CORR) 02/21/96 2487 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO CS(DHSS) 02/21/96 2498 (S) COSPONSOR(S): HALFORD 02/23/96 (S) RLS AT 10:45 AM FAHRENKAMP RM 203 02/23/96 (S) MINUTE(RLS) 02/26/96 2538 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 2/26/96 02/26/96 2541 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME 02/26/96 2541 (S) FIN CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 02/26/96 2541 (S) AM NO 1 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 02/26/96 2541 (S) AM TO AM 2 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 02/26/96 2543 (S) AM NO 2 AS AM FAILED Y9 N11 02/26/96 2543 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN CONSENT 02/26/96 2543 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM 02/26/96 2543 (S) COSPONSOR(S): LEMAN, KELLY, SHARP, 02/26/96 2543 (S) TORGERSON, MILLER, TAYLOR, PHILLIPS 02/26/96 2543 (S) PASSED Y14 N6 02/26/96 2544 (S) DUNCAN NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION 02/28/96 2569 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING 02/28/96 2569 (S) AM NO 3 NOT OFFERED 02/28/96 2569 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 4 UNAN CONSENT 02/28/96 2569 (S) AM NO 4 FAILED Y8 N10 E2 02/28/96 2570 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING 02/28/96 2570 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 5 UNAN CONSENT 02/28/96 2570 (S) AM NO 5 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 02/28/96 2570 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING 02/28/96 2570 (S) RECON HELD 3/6/96 CALENDAR UNAN CONSENT 03/06/96 2628 (S) MOVED TO BOTTOM OF CALENDAR 03/06/96 2630 (S) RECONSIDERATION BEFORE SENATE 03/06/96 2630 (S) RETURN TO 2ND FOR AM 6 03/06/96 2630 (S) AM NO 6 FAILED Y7 N11 E2 03/06/96 2631 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING 03/06/96 2631 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 7 UNAN CONSENT 03/06/96 2631 (S) AM NO 7 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 03/06/96 2632 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING 03/06/96 2632 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 8 UNAN CONSENT 03/06/96 2632 (S) AM NO 8 ADOPTED Y11 N7 E2 03/06/96 2633 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING 03/06/96 2633 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 9 UNAN CONSENT 03/06/96 2634 (S) AM NO 9 OFFERED BY ZHAROFF 03/06/96 2634 (S) AM 1 TO AM 9 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 03/06/96 2634 (S) AM 2 TO AM 9 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 03/06/96 2634 (S) AM NO 9 AS AMENDED ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 03/06/96 2634 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING 03/06/96 2635 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y14 N4 E2 03/06/96 2636 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) 03/08/96 3018 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 03/08/96 3018 (H) JUDICIARY, FINANCE 03/29/96 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120 WITNESS REGISTER SENATOR DAVE DONLEY Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 11 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-3892 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided sponsor statement and answered questions on SB 175. JERRY SHRINER, Special Assistant Office of the Commissioner Department of Corrections 240 Main Street, Suite 700 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-4640 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided department's position and answered questions regarding SB 175. ANNE CARPENETI, Assistant Attorney General Criminal Division Department of Law P.O. Box 110300 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300 Telephone: (907) 465-3428 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided department's position and answered questions regarding SB 175. THOMAS MEYER, Committee Aide House Judiciary Committee Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 118 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-4990 POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on amendments to SB 175. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 96-45, SIDE A Number 0001 CHAIRMAN BRIAN PORTER called the House Judiciary Committee meeting to order at 1:15 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Porter, Green, Vezey and Toohey. Representatives Finkelstein and Bunde joined the meeting at 1:19 p.m. and 1:37 p.m., respectively. Absent was Representative B. Davis. SB 175 - "NO FRILLS" PRISON ACT Number 0053 SENATOR DAVE DONLEY, sponsor of SB 175, explained that the bill responded to legislation sponsored by Chairman Porter two years before, relating to the constitutional amendment on victims' rights. That legislation contained a section addressing the penal administration section of the Alaska Constitution, adding provisions for community condemnation, victims' rights and restitution. The bill moved towards facilitating that language, which was adopted by the voters in the last general election as a constitutional amendment, Senator Donley said. SENATOR DONLEY stated that SB 175 enhanced the reformation clause of the constitution by providing additional vocational training opportunities for prisoners. Language to that effect had been added to the original legislation at the request of the Department of Corrections. The bill helped protect public safety by making absolutely clear that there should be no martial arts training or equipment in prisons, with which the Department of Corrections agreed. It also banned body-building equipment, which Senator Donley thought would enable violent prisoners to increase their strength. SENATOR DONLEY referred to the community condemnation language adopted by voters and said SB 175 addressed this by eliminating luxuries in Alaska prisons. Modeled after the federal no-frills prison act currently before the U.S. Congress, the provision banned compact disc players, VCRs, personal computers and premium cable television within inmates' individual cells. It also put in statute the Department of Corrections' present ban on pornographic materials and prohibited violent movies. Senator Donley believed prison personnel would welcome the provision. Number 0330 SENATOR DONLEY explained that compact disc players and computers had already been banned from federal prisons. Some suggested compact discs could easily be used as weapons. Although prisoners paid for premium cable television themselves, many Alaskans could not afford that luxury and found it offensive, he said. The final Senate version of SB 175 allowed prisoners television with basic cable in their rooms if they paid for it themselves, got a GED, were engaged in educational programs, had complied with any court orders for alcohol or drug treatment, and had made proper restitution to victims. Senator Donley thought that might provide powerful incentives. Number 0514 SENATOR DONLEY said the bill contained a cost-saving measure to increase the potential number of prisoners who could be paroled because of catastrophic illnesses or medical conditions that made them nonthreatening to the public. Language instituted the previous year had only applied to prisoners who were bedridden. However, prisoners in wheelchairs, for example, had been ineligible for that program. Once a person was no longer in the prison system, he or she became eligible for federal funds for medical care, which could provide enormous cost savings based on even one paroled prisoner. This savings had not been reflected in the fiscal note because of the infrequency of qualifying people, Senator Donley added. Number 0607 CHAIRMAN PORTER referred to criteria that must be met to receive primary cable television. He assumed if a person had already been a high school graduate or had a GED, they were "past phase one." SENATOR DONLEY concurred. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if such a person would need to be engaged in an educational program. SENATOR DONLEY replied that a prisoner who already had a GED would have to be in some sort of educational or vocational program. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if such a program would be available to everybody. Number 0703 SENATOR DONLEY suggested the Department of Corrections could answer that. If it were not available, he thought it should be. He mentioned that the bill allowed computers for vocational purposes in common areas and expressed support for Representative Finkelstein's upcoming amendment to add educational use of computers. Senator Donley clarified that televisions in common areas could have cable. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked, "Do you consider, when you're excluding body-building equipment, that you are excluding normal ... exercise equipment?" SENATOR DONLEY replied there was no intent to exclude aerobic training equipment. "What I'm concerned about is machinery that actually enhances development of muscles," he said, indicating he felt strongly about it. He suggested people could do push-ups or other exercises on their own, without high-tech equipment. Number 0856 REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN referred to page 4, line 2, which prohibited prisoners from viewing unrated movies. He suggested that numerous educational and obscure movies were unrated. SENATOR DONLEY indicated the intent was to prohibit violent or pornographic movies that were unrated. He said he would have no problem with adding language that said "unless it's an educational film or unless it's approved by the department, movies without ratings should be prohibited". Number 0950 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY asked how many of the conditions in the bill were now beyond the control of the commissioner of the Department of Corrections. SENATOR DONLEY replied, "I believe the Cleary settlement includes some requirements for body-building equipment and I don't consider that a prohibition to the legislature putting it into statute ... because I don't think that was mandated under either the federal or the state constitution that they be provided with that. And the state statute, then, would subsequently overrule that, because that was a settlement, not a court order, and the state would simply renegotiate. Based on recent United States Supreme Court cases, it's clear that those kind of settlements with prisoners are available for modification by states. So, I would say without a statute, that that would be beyond the current jurisdiction of the department unless they took that initiative on their own, because right now, they've agreed to that in the Cleary settlement. I guess you could say that ... under that line of new cases, they could go in and modify the Cleary settlement. So, given that, they would have the ability to be flexible there and actually prohibit those kind of things. Other than that, I think the commissioner probably has the authority to do everything here if they wanted to." Number 1039 SENATOR DONLEY indicated the Cleary settlement, which he had recently reread, discussed phone calls. "I think we have an amendment to make this consistent with existing statute on phone calls," he said. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if Senator Donley was of the opinion that provided the Administration was willing to deal with the court under the new laws and new court rulings addressing the Cleary decision, that the majority of items in SB 175 could be addressed administratively. SENATOR DONLEY replied, "That's what I've been able to figure out so far." Number 1113 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY referred to Section 2 and recalled that a couple years previously, the legislature had worked hard to put that wording in statute. He asked for reasons behind changes proposed for that section. SENATOR DONLEY referred to page 1, line 13, and said, "By removing the `confined to bed', you open it up for the possibility of somebody who's in a wheelchair or ... maybe their arms are disabled but their legs still work." The Department of Corrections had estimated there would be ten qualifying people per year, with the "confined to bed" wording. However, there had only been "about five." Number 1195 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated the original idea was to have a very narrow window, only for people who would definitely not be a threat to society. "They were basically characterized as terminally ill people," he recalled. He questioned whether someone confined to a wheelchair would necessarily be completely nonthreatening. He asked if the idea was to open up the window and enlarge the population available for the exception. SENATOR DONLEY affirmed that. "And it's such a small population that the department, in hearings in Senate Finance, said they couldn't even, for sure, say there'd even be one," he said. "But there could be. And that's why there's no fiscal note saying we're going to save `x' amount of dollars." Number 1245 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY responded to Representative Vezey, "We keep thinking that the prison population is a young, virile group. There's some old, old people in the prison system now that have been there a long time and will remain there for a long time." She suggested people who had a stroke could often walk with a walker, but not well. In addition, people with advanced cases of AIDS were not necessarily confined to bed or a wheelchair but had limited ability. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY suggested that if reform were to be addressed, including constitutional change and its impact on Cleary, the size of prisoners' living quarters was the most important consideration. Number 1340 SENATOR DONLEY indicated that square footage per prisoner was specified in Cleary, which was settled out of court. He was currently looking into how that settlement related to the minimum federal constitutional standard. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if the Cleary settlement carried the weight of a court order. SENATOR DONLEY said, "It does, but since the court didn't make a finding that it was required, we don't know what the court would actually require." REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked: "Since we haven't done anything to reduce the prison overpopulation, since the new prisons that may or may not be built are at least a few years off, since we've passed plenty of laws that are going to be sending more people into the prisons, why would it ever be in our interest to renegotiate the Cleary settlement?" Number 1419 SENATOR DONLEY said the mandated physical space was specified in terms of square footage in the Cleary settlement, which also limited the number of prisoners per room, both in dormitory conditions and cells for individuals. "If that amount was more than is required under the constitution, you might be able to save some money with new prison construction," he suggested. Since it had not been ruled on by the court, however, he did not know the answer. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he did not know, either. He wanted to find out the square footage requirements under Cleary, as well as the minimum federal standards. "And before we let this bill out of committee, I would like to actually put that in statute, that that is the maximum standard that we will establish," he said, suggesting the possibility of placing additional prisoners in existing facilities. He asked if Senator Donley had academic studies on the impact of physical training on the prison population. He wondered if it would make felons meaner or make better citizens out of them. Number 1520 SENATOR DONLEY replied he had no such information. He indicated he had seen the ban on body-building equipment in the federal act and added that it had always bothered him personally. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he questioned that. Physical training was an integral part of all educational programs geared toward young men and it taught self-respect, which carried over to respect for others, he said. Although he appreciated the motive, he was uncertain the means would accomplish the desired end. He referred to television in prisons and said it was a cheap baby-sitter. He speculated that prison guards would advocate its use. SENATOR DONLEY responded that many prisons nationwide did not allow televisions in rooms. He thought all had them in common areas, however, which this bill would allow. In many prisons, there were also headphones for use in common areas, he said. Number 1784 CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if prisoners qualifying for premium cable television in their rooms would have to have completed restitution or whether they would qualify if they had a plan on which they were current. SENATOR DONLEY replied he had heard a proposal to modify it to say that if there was a plan, and the person was making payments, they would qualify. "I don't think that's unreasonable," he said. "The problem I personally had with it is it's kind of hard to explain to the victim how the prisoner can afford to buy cable TV in their room but they couldn't afford to compensate them for the damage they did to them when they committed a crime." He reiterated that he thought it was reasonable. Number 1784 CHAIRMAN PORTER said that some of the bills a prisoner would owe might be substantial. The motivation for maintaining payments would be helpful. "There isn't any requirement for them to make restitution," he added. SENATOR DONLEY said, "If the committee feels strongly about that, I have language drafted that would do that. It wasn't my intent to offer it, but if any member of the committee wants to, I've got that drafted." REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY referred to the rating of movies and suggested removing the language "or do not have ratings", citing the reason that many educational films were unrated. She asked if prisoners were allowed VCRs in their rooms and commented that many educational programs came on tape. Number 1857 SENATOR DONLEY said he thought it was clearly appropriate to have a common area where prisoners could watch educational video tapes. However, he thought having them in individual cells was problematic. He emphasized that the bill would not prohibit watching instructional video tapes in a common area. SENATOR DONLEY read from a document and informed the committee of the size requirements under Cleary, which specified a minimum of 60 square feet for one inmate; 80 square feet for two; and 140 square feet for three. It also said that future facilities may not provide for housing of inmates in dormitories, except for minimum security. He was unsure of the definition of dormitory. He thought it was unfortunate that was specified in the settlement. CHAIRMAN PORTER stated his understanding that the Department of Law's opinion was that the statute would technically override the Cleary agreement, although there would probably be lawsuits. Number 1968 JERRY SHRINER, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Corrections, testified that he had worked extensively with Senator Donley on the bill. He indicated that the department liked some provisions and disliked others. While the department understood Senator Donley's concern about public perception of frills, the department did not see it that way nor think of the prison system as pleasant. Fundamentally, those in charge thought facilities were being handled appropriately and in line with not only rehabilitation but also public condemnation. MR. SHRINER indicated they were trying to curb smoking but that it was not a simple problem. Similarly, they did not want to just walk into facilities and announce the weights were being removed. "We're not necessarily opposed to some of these things, but some of them take awhile," he said. Number 2108 MR. SHRINER said some parts of the bill got into areas that belonged to the correctional superintendents, sergeants, and personnel who knew what was needed to manage those facilities. "They don't see television as a frill," he emphasized. "They see television as a management tool or, as Representative Vezey said, a baby-sitter. ... From their point of view, a guy who's in his room watching television is a guy who's not in the day room ... where they have to pay more attention to him than ... if he's in his cell. And when you're a correction officer and maybe there's only one other CO on duty that night, and you've got 100 or more prisoners to watch, they like the comfort of knowing that ... most of those guys are in their room, the door's locked, and they're not causing any trouble while they're down there." Number 2160 MR. SHRINER referred to medical parole and said Senator Donley was correct that in years past, there had been estimates that maybe 30 or 40 people could be let out under that provision. However, when the bill passed the previous year, it was found there were four to six people who qualified. Moving them out of the system allowed great savings for medical care as they moved onto Medicare/Medicaid, he said, emphasizing that it was not out of sympathy or a belief that the sentencing was wrong that they were paroled. Mr. Shriner concluded by saying department personnel felt it was important for people to have their own computers for education. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented on the irony that a person had to be 19 years old to use tobacco outside of prison, but not inside. He asked if anything in the bill could address that and commented that the state should be enforcing its own laws. MR. SHRINER stated he had that question, too, and that he would be glad to pursue it. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked if it was part of Cleary. MR. SHRINER replied he would get an answer. Number 2314 CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if the requirement of the bill to have smoking in designated areas precluded cells. MR. SHRINER replied, "As I read the bill, I don't think it precludes smoking in their cells." In five Alaska institutions, there was no smoking at all; he understood that in the remaining ones, "designated area" meant either outside in the yard or in a particular room. He did not think there was any smoking in cells currently. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if the provision would, then, have no affect on policy. MR. SHRINER responded, "I don't think so. This is one of those issues where we really agree and we just need some time to keep moving on it." CHAIRMAN PORTER suggested this would provide the time if the department wanted to totally phase it out. He asked Mr. Shriner if the square foot requirements were, to his knowledge, greater or lower than federal standards. Number 2365 MR. SHRINER replied, "It's my understanding, from talking to people in the Department of Law, that that standard is greater than would be required by the U.S. Constitution." He pointed out that he was an expert on neither Cleary nor the law. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was a specific federal or state statute on square footage. MR. SHRINER expressed his understanding that there were court decisions making that determination. Number 2377 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked what the average size was for a typical cell and how Alaska conformed to the standard adopted under Cleary. MR. SHRINER said he could not provide a good example. However, a month before, in touring the Wildwood facility, he had been informed that some cells there were slightly below the Cleary minimum. "I think, in general, it's fair to say that we meet that standard," he said. "I doubt that we exceed it." He noted there had been attempts to turn visiting rooms, for example, into cell space whenever feasible. Number 2438 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he had information that at Spring Creek, there were two-man cells of 138 square feet, two square feet shy of being three-man cells. MR. SHRINER responded that he did not know about that. REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY referred to a hand-out relating to policies on televisions and asked what "honor status" meant. MR. SHRINER said when an inmate had met certain requirements, they would be given that status by the facility. He said the most televisions per room were at long-term facilities, such as Spring Creek. TAPE 96-45, SIDE B Number 0052 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked about the Department of Corrections' position on physical training equipment. MR. SHRINER replied, "That's a tough one. We have different kinds of weight systems in different places." Some places had free weights and barbells. Some had Nautilus-type equipment with cables. At Lemon Creek, for example, there was a system designed by staff and residents that was fastened to the wall. "In general, the way we think of weight training is no different than we think of televisions," he stated. "For some people that's important and it occupies their time." Superintendents had told him they were unaware of instances, in the Alaska system, at least, where anyone involved in body-building had committed any serious physical acts against another person inside the facility. Although they were not aware of incidents outside, either, Mr. Shriner acknowledged that was not good information, as the department did not keep track of it. The department saw body-building as part of management. Mr. Shriner commented that there were not enough jobs to occupy inmates eight hours a day. For that reason, he was concerned about instituting systems in prison where having a job was rewarded with use of a television. Number 0157 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented that he thought free weights might be handy weapons. MR. SHRINER indicated he had been told, in response to a question, that free weights had never been used as a weapon. Number 0188 SENATOR DONLEY explained that the Senate amended the original bill to allow inmates to use computers other than those provided by the state. If a private company wanted to donate computers, for example, inmates could use those, or their own computers, in common areas but not in their cells. REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked about e-mail and related options. SENATOR DONLEY said, "There was a horrific experience in the federal prisons with that." He said e-mail, as well as other computer use, was now prohibited for federal inmates. Number 0240 ANNE CARPENETI, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department of Law, testified that she had one comment on the bill. She referred to page 3, lines 10-13, the provision prohibiting the commissioner from providing living conditions and recreational opportunities to prisoners exceeding conditions required by the U.S. Constitution or the Alaska Constitution. She said, "In regards to living conditions, as they relate to space, this would require us to reopen the Cleary settlement because there are conditions in the Cleary settlement that do exceed the federal constitutional requirements in that regard." CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if, notwithstanding Cleary, there was clear federal or state case law on square foot requirements. MS. CARPENETI explained that Mr. Guaneli, Chief Assistant Attorney General, who handled all prisoner and correctional issues for the department, was out of town. She offered to provide answers later. Number 0309 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if the department believed it was in the interest of the state to reopen the Cleary decision at this time. MS. CARPENETI said she had not discussed it with Mr. Guaneli. The issue was complex enough that she did not want to speculate. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked: "Would you agree with what we understand the Department of Law's position to be, that this statute, if passed into law, would supersede, in the supremacy of the law, the Cleary agreement, to the extent that it was contradictory?" MS. CARPENETI replied, "I believe so, yes. I agree with that." Number 0370 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if any court cases indicated fundamental constitutional requirements had changed, so that the state would do better in renegotiating, or whether anything else had changed since the Cleary settlement. MS. CARPENETI replied, "Not to my knowledge, but my knowledge is very limited. And when you asked the question about the agreement, ... I don't think that the statute would supersede an agreement that the state has entered into. But ... it would be the law, so we would have to go in and renegotiate, I believe, to comply with the law. I don't think this would, on its own, negate a contract. I think we would be required to renegotiate based on it." CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "The reason you would have to do that is that the statute supersedes the agreement." MS. CARPENETI replied, "Correct." REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked Ms. Carpeneti whether it would unilaterally change an agreement if a law were to be passed that conflicted with that prior agreement. Number 0433 MS. CARPENETI indicated she would find out and respond on Monday. She said Mr. Guaneli would be back Monday, as well. CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that the committee would meet the following Wednesday. MS. CARPENETI asked if she should find out about cases on space requirements. CHAIRMAN PORTER affirmed that. He referred to page 3, line 10, and indicated the committee was trying to determine whether they should be more specific. After asking if there was further testimony on SB 175, he closed the public hearing on the bill. Number 0497 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN presented a packet of seven amendments dated March 28, 1996. He offered Amendment 1, labeled "Finkelstein1", which read: Page 3, line 30: Delete "make unmonitored telephone calls, except for" Insert "make telephone calls that are not subject to monitoring; however," Page 3, line 31, following "counsel": Insert "may not be monitored" REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN explained that inability to make unmonitored telephone calls would tax the resources of the prisons. It was an internal management area of the prison system, which had worked out elaborate schemes to deal with it. "They don't believe it's a problem as it stands," he said, explaining they believed the current wording would drain their resources. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked Senator Donley whether he had an amendment that would address that area. Number 0573 SENATOR DONLEY said it had recently been pointed out to him that this was addressed in another part of statute. He had an amendment that would remove that section from the bill, he said. There was an existing policy being followed, pursuant to an existing statute, regarding what calls could be monitored. He indicated existing statute allowed unmonitored phone calls to an inmate's attorney and to the ombudsman. CHAIRMAN PORTER said the Donley amendment would delete the subsection on page 3, lines 30-31. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN withdrew "Finkelstein 1" as Amendment 1 and offered as a replacement "Donley 1". Number 0645 CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that "Finkelstein 1" had been replaced with "Donley 1" as Amendment 1. Amendment 1 to CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM now read: Page 3, Line 30 to 31 Delete subsection Renumber the following subsections accordingly. REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY objected for clarification and said she thought there should be a right to monitor whatever calls they wanted to. CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "For your information, they do have that ability. They've got a system now that works in two areas. One, outgoing calls are now preceded by a taped message saying, `you are receiving a call from an inmate in a correctional institution; if you do not wish to receive this call, please hang up.' So, all of the games that were going on are eliminated. The rest of the calls are taped and sporadically monitored, and, of course, if there's a complaint, they can go back and look it up ...." REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said it was in the bill because of being part of the federal no-frills prison act. Number 0692 CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was discussion or any objection to Amendment 1. There being none, Amendment 1 passed. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 2 to CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM, labeled "Finkelstein 2", which read: Page 3, line 32 to page 4, line 1: Delete subsection Renumber the following subsections accordingly. The subsection under discussion, AS 33.30.015(a)(2)(B), prohibited the commissioner from allowing a state prisoner to possess a compact disc (CD) player, a video cassette recorder (VCR), or a computer in the prisoner's cell. Number 0704 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said the argument was that these were critical management tools for running prisons. No evidence existed that problems were created by them, he said, and benefits exceeded any image problem. He expressed that computers were tools and that computer skills were some of the best skills one could acquire. He addressed the suggestion that CDs could be weapons and noted that tape cassettes, which had hard plastic, could also be used and were potential containers for drugs; however, they were not banned. He noted that prisoners used utensils, as well. He saw this provision as micro-management. Number 0827 SENATOR DONLEY voiced that forks and spoons used in prisons now were made from a special plastic which, when broken, produced no sharp edges. "The CD provision was actually one that I've had specific comments from prison guards saying, `thank you' for," he said. He noted that the bill did not require that prisoners be allowed to have tape cassettes. As for computers, he reiterated that prisoners could have them in common areas. CHAIRMAN PORTER referred to testimony from the department indicating computers in the cells were being used for educational purposes. He asked if putting the computers in common areas would not create additional need for supervision by guards, a need that would not exist if prisoners were locked in their cells. Number 0916 SENATOR DONLEY replied, "Probably." It would be less convenient for prisoners, as well. He noted that federal prisons completely banned computers, even in general areas, because of misuse. "In fact, the warden was expressing to me he thought the federal government went too far banning them from common areas," Senator Donley stated. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked what kind of bad experiences there had been. SENATOR DONLEY replied the prisoners got into the Internet and caused havoc. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if disallowing hooking up with any intercommunication capability would solve the problem. SENATOR DONLEY said, "Not completely," adding that computers were recreational and a huge luxury. He saw no justification for allowing a prisoner to spend three years playing computer games in his cell. Number 1044 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if there was any evidence of private telephone lines going into any cells in Alaska. He did not see how one could tap into the system without a private phone line. SENATOR DONLEY said he was responding to the chairman's question about experiences in the federal prisons and that he was relating the warden's support of the decision except for common areas. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN thought it was irrelevant since there were no phone lines into cells. He suggested that most prisoners used older computer equipment. He believed acquiring computer skills, even if inmates also played games, was valuable. Prisoners were not wasting time but had time to fill. SENATOR DONLEY clarified that prisoners did not have to buy computers with their own money. Many people's families bought expensive computers for them. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN thought that was not the rule and that most prisoners had older computers. Number 1227 CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that the motion was to delete subsection (B), line 32, page 3, regarding possession of a compact disc player, video cassette recorder or computer in the cell. He expressed mixed feelings since allowing computers only out of the cell would require more supervision. He asked the sponsor what he would think if the amendment only addressed CD players and VCRs. SENATOR DONLEY replied it would be a step forward from what they had now. Number 1310 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN suggested splitting Amendment 2 and dividing the question into three parts. He moved that Amendment 2 be divided. CHAIRMAN PORTER noted the motion and asked if there was an objection. There being none, Amendment 2 was divided. Chairman Porter noted that the first motion was to remove compact disc players. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN restated previous comments on CD players and tape cassettes. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was further discussion and asked for a roll call vote. He said a yes vote would be a vote to remove CD players. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if that was to remove it from "the verbiage." CHAIRMAN PORTER concurred. Voting for the first part of the amendment were Representatives Bunde, Toohey, Finkelstein and Porter. Voting against it were Representatives Vezey and Green. Representative B. Davis was absent. Chairman Porter named the portion voted on Amendment 2A and noted that compact disc player had been eliminated from the amendment. Several committee members objected simultaneously that that was not what had been voted on. REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "We removed the disc player. We're taking it away from the room." Number 1422 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said Representative Vezey had clarified that it was removing it from the verbiage, which Representative Finkelstein saw as removing it from the bill. "It wasn't amending the amendment, it was splitting the amendment. So, we were just voting on that one piece, removing CDs from the bill," he said. CHAIRMAN PORTER stated, "But what I was doing was thinking, at least, that we were removing the language from the amendment, not from the bill. The effect would be a reversal, I think, of what some people thought we were voting on. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said, "A no vote leaves it in." CHAIRMAN PORTER asked for a motion to rescind the previous action. Number 1462 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN moved that the previous action on Amendment2A be rescinded. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was an objection. There being none, the vote on Amendment 2A was rescinded. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said, "I'm going to withdraw the amendment." CHAIRMAN PORTER noted it was withdrawn. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said the motion was on a divided question. REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked if possessing a compact disc in the cell was being removed. CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that Representative Finkelstein had withdrawn the motion to divide. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said, "Then they remain banned, in the bill, from the cell." Number 1538 CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that Amendment 2 was before the committee. It removed the prohibition to have in the cell a CD player, VCR and computer. He said a yes vote would remove the language from the bill. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if they were on 2B. CHAIRMAN PORTER said no. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN replied, "The question was divided into three. I withdrew 2A and I thought we were on 2B." CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "I thought you meant to remove the division." REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated, "No, I can't remove the division, I don't think." He added, "We already acted on that. You said it was allowed and without objection, it was divided. I withdrew the 2A and so now, we're on 2B. I just wanted to offer 2B and 2C, just to follow on the chair's recommendation that they be done separately." Number 1602 CHAIRMAN PORTER referred to Amendment 2B and said a yes vote would remove the reference to the video cassette recorder from the bill, so it would not be prohibited in the cell. He objected and asked for a roll call vote. Number 1650 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN commented that other areas of the bill specified what could or could not be viewed, leaving relatively mild and educational items. He indicated VCRs could be a great educational tool and that having them in cells would take less supervision. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was an objection. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY objected. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked for a roll call vote. Voting for Amendment 2B were Representatives Toohey, Finkelstein, Bunde and Porter. Voting against it were Representatives Vezey and Green. Representative B. Davis was absent. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said he had a technical question. "The bill says there can only be TVs in common areas," he said. Number 1760 SENATOR DONLEY replied, "Unless you do the restitution and comply with the court orders and you've got your GED. Then, as a management tool, the department can let you have one in your cell." REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "My question was, there's no sense having a VCR if you don't have a TV to go with it." CHAIRMAN PORTER agreed but said there was a way to get a TV. "In effect, we've put VCRs under the same criteria as TVs," he said. He noted that Amendment 2A had been withdrawn and Amendment 2B had passed. Number 1803 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN referred to Amendment 2C and said he had already made the argument in favor of a yes vote. CHAIRMAN PORTER said a yes vote would remove the prohibition of computers in a cell from the bill. He asked for a roll call vote. Voting for Amendment 2C were Representatives Vezey, Finkelstein, Green and Porter. Voting against it were Representatives Bunde and Toohey. Representative B. Davis was absent. Chairman Porter noted that Amendment 2C passed. He explained his vote by saying he could not justify creating a higher expense with the same effect. REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked to address the language "or do not have a rating". SENATOR DONLEY responded, "Could I just say, on line 2, after the word `or' there, you just [say] `or not approved by the department', so the department could just delegate that authority to their superintendents. CHAIRMAN PORTER noted there was a motion, which he named Amendment 2D, relating to page 4, lines 2-3. SENATOR DONLEY clarified it was to insert language so it would read "or not approved by the department that do not have a rating". That way, he said, any educational movie without a rating could be authorized by the department. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said, "Since we're using `or' statements and not `and', any item in this series is precluded. So, an item that does not have a rating is precluded." Number 1962 CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "unless approved by the department" would be the way to say it, then. He stated, "We would leave those phrases and on line 3, add `unless approved by the department'." He noted that would be Amendment 2D. He asked if there was an objection. There being none, Amendment 2D passed. Number 2017 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 3 to CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM, labeled "Finkelstein 3", which read; Page 4, line 10 to 12: Delete subsection Renumber the following subsections accordingly. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN noted that Amendment 3 dealt with the section on weight-lifting equipment. He disagreed with the basic argument and suggested that self-esteem issues were important in prison populations. He saw no clear line between aerobic and muscle-oriented exercises and said both were crucial to older populations, especially. "These folks can actually find some way to do these things, anyway," he said. Furthermore, if passed, this was the one item in the bill that would require renegotiation of Cleary. He encouraged a yes vote. Number 2258 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to concern expressed about misuse of free weights. He suggested placing `portable' between `to' and `bodybuilding' on page 4, line 10, and between `other' and `equipment' on line 11. That way, inmates could use weights to work out but would not have free weights or something that they could throw or misuse on the guards. Number 2310 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "We seem to allow prisoners to improve their minds mentally but we don't allow them to improve their body." She suggested improving one's body would add to self- esteem. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said that was the reason for the friendly amendment. If equipment was not portable, one could still work out. Number 2395 CHAIRMAN PORTER said he understood the sponsor's intent but that it was unenforceable. SENATOR DONLEY responded, "But I think there's relative degrees of efficiency in body-building." TAPE 96-46, SIDE A Number 0001 SENATOR DONLEY cited an example of a body-builder who beat up a woman after getting out of jail. Senator Donley believed the state did not have to assist inmates with the process of body-building. "I think they can, for health reasons, do it themselves," he said. Number 0106 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN believed state of mind was the issue. Some might feel better about themselves and not beat up others if they kept up their self-esteem, he suggested. He said evidence from the department indicated this was an activity they would prefer for prisoners over having them do nothing. CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that Amendment 3 would remove lines 10-12, the prohibition on weight-lifting equipment. He asked if there was further discussion and then asked for a roll call vote. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN withdrew his amendment to Amendment3. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked to proceed with the vote. Voting for Amendment 3 were Representatives Finkelstein, Bunde, Toohey, Vezey and Porter. Voting against it was Representative Green. Representative B. Davis was absent. Chairman Porter noted that Amendment 3 passed. Number 0309 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 4 to CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM, labeled "Finkelstein 4", relating to possession in cells of coffee pots, hot plates, appliances or heating elements for food preparation. Amendment 4 read: Page 4, line 13 to 14: Delete subsection Renumber the following subsections accordingly. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN did not recall any testimony on this item. However, from his conversation with the department, this was a minor item that provided management tools and incentives for good behavior. Number 0360 SENATOR DONLEY explained those items were not allowed anywhere in any prison he knew of. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked to hear from the department. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked Mr. Shriner if there was a significant amount of coffee pots, hot plates, appliances or heating elements for food preparation in cells. Number 0406 MR. SHRINER replied there may be some in long-term facilities such as Spring Creek, but not in minimum security facilities. SENATOR DONLEY said, "I was told by the representative of the guards they don't allow them anywhere." MR. SHRINER indicated he was not disagreeing. He was saying they may have. Number 0447 CHAIRMAN PORTER objected to Amendment 4. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said, "I don't see what the problem we're solving is. There's not even any evidence they're being used. There's just the possibility they might be necessary or might be a good management tool in a long-term facility...." He asked why they should legislate on that subject when it was not a problem. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was further discussion and requested a roll call vote. Voting for Amendment 4 was Representative Finkelstein. Voting against it were Representatives Green, Bunde, Toohey, Vezey and Porter. Representative B. Davis was absent. Chairman Porter noted that Amendment 4 failed. Number 0522 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 5 to CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM, labeled "Finkelstein 5", which read: Page 4, Line 18 to 20: Delete subsection Renumber the following subsections accordingly. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said Amendment 5 addressed when computers were allowed and that it was a conforming amendment. Number 0680 CHAIRMAN PORTER pointed out the bill said "approved by the correctional facility". He disagreed the amendment was conforming. "It provides what it is that they're to be used for, but not where," he said. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN replied, "The concept of the previous one is that a computer in a cell was a reasonable thing. This would say it can only be used as part of their employment, which is not going to be occurring in their cell, or as part of their vocational training, which ... may or may not be in their cell. It may not be exactly conforming, but certainly this conflicts with the concept of ... allowing computers in cells." CHAIRMAN PORTER replied that, considering previous action, perhaps the language needed an additional word to read "educational or vocational training". REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN agreed. He withdrew Amendment 5, saying his next amendment took care of that. CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that Amendment 5 was withdrawn, with permission of the group. Number 0718 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 6 to CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM, labeled "Finkelstein 6", which read: Page 4, line 19 following "employment": Insert ", education" CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "I think we've established that computers are allowed in the cell by approval of the department, by eliminating it from the prohibition. But this would provide that the use in the cell ... would be for employment, education or vocational training. That's the effect of Amendment 6." He asked if there was an objection. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Shriner whether the use of a computer in an inmate's cell could be monitored to comply with that. Number 0779 MR. SHRINER replied that software was carefully screened. "There's nothing on there that we haven't approved of," he said. Although it might be difficult to determine if someone was playing a game using spreadsheet software, for example, they could certainly prevent the loading of games onto a computer. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN suggested that several games came with certain hard drives. MR. SHRINER believed those games could be removed. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was further discussion or an objection to Amendment 6. There being none, Amendment 6 passed. Number 0856 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN introduced Amendment 7 to CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM, labeled "Finkelstein 7", which read: Page 4, line 29 to page 5, line 13: Delete all material REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN explained Amendment 7 addressed when prisoners were allowed to have televisions. In a previous amendment, inmates had been allowed to have televisions and VCRs in a cell, he said. "The bill uses the approach that they've got to have a high school diploma or a GED and meet three other standards before they can actually have the TV in their cell," he stated. "The testimony from the department has been that this is an important management tool.... Some people are not going to be able to get their GED. ... Some folks can barely read and write, and that doesn't mean they're a higher or lower risk in that particular setting, nor that it's going to be in the interest of the prison to exclude that particular person. Those folks are more problem- ridden already." He said prisons could impose restrictions as a management tool and added, "But to mandate in legislation, to give them no recourse and to make that many more people who ... they are unable to use that incentive tool on, I think is counter- productive." REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY mentioned the possibility of exempting people lacking the mental capacity to meet requirements. Number 1030 CHAIRMAN PORTER suggested wording similar to "is capable of and has attained". Even for those incapable of attaining a GED, it would still require some sort of training and meeting other requirements. He asked: "Would that work, to eliminate the absolute prohibition about someone who was mentally incapable of attaining his GED?" MR. SHRINER replied he believed that could be done and assessments made. CHAIRMAN PORTER stated, "To the extent that we would word it something like that, the department would make that judgment." REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said, "If that's the goal, my suggestion is we just take out the part that you've got to have a high school diploma or a GED." CHAIRMAN PORTER indicated he liked it for prisoners who were capable. REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY concurred. Number 1110 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN indicated low IQ was not the only reason people did not make it through school. Many could not read or write. "It's not something you can do in just a matter of a year, which is all the time given here to achieve that," he commented, adding that many people would not make it. He said, "I'd withdraw my [Amendment] 7 and offer as a replacement just removing page 5, line 3 and 4, and leaving the rest in place." REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY objected. CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "For the purposes of discussion, I'll accept the withdrawal of number 7 and a submission of an amended number 7 that only calls for the withdrawal, if you will, of lines 3 and 4 on page 5. So, that would be in front of us." Number 1201 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY responded, "We're not taking their daily sustenance away. We're taking a television set away." She thought it was important to leave in requirements relating to the GED, educational and vocational programs. Number 1227 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN clarified that being engaged in educational or vocational training or an employment program would still be required. "This amendment just removes the high school diploma or GED," he said. "So, I believe the second part still achieves it. They've got to be involved in some sort of educational activity and that determination is made by the prison. So, I believe it achieves all the same goals. It just doesn't automatically exclude someone because their physical abilities or their past educational efforts make it unrealistic to get a high school diploma." REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY responded, "Somebody that has not finished high school has a mental block that says they're stupid." She indicated she was one of those people until she received a GED. She believed that people who had not received a GED were in trouble. Number 1295 CHAIRMAN PORTER suggested handling the two issues separately. He said, "The first issue is shall we eliminate the requirement. I intend to offer something regarding `is capable of'." He noted that the first issue, Amendment 7, was elimination of lines 3 and 4, page 5. He asked if there was further discussion and then requested a roll call vote. Voting for Amendment 7 were Representatives Green, Bunde and Finkelstein. Voting against it were Representatives Toohey, Vezey and Porter. Chairman Porter noted that Amendment 7 failed. CHAIRMAN PORTER said he would entertain a conceptual amendment to add to that line something to the effect of "is capable of and has attained", recognizing that the determination would be up to the department. He noted it would be Amendment 8. Number 1353 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "So moved." CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that Amendment 8 conceptually inserted on line3, page 5, subsection (1), the phrase "is incapable of or" before the phrase "has attained a high school diploma or general education development diploma or the equivalent". He asked if there was an objection. There being none, Amendment 8 passed. Number 1405 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 9 to CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM, which read: Page 5, line 7, following "satisfied": Insert ", or is on a regular and current payment schedule for" REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN explained, "This goes to the requirement ... on page 5, line 7, that they've satisfied all restitution ordered." He indicated some people had long-term payment schedules. The department believed those people should not be precluded as long as they met their agreed payment schedule. Number 1478 CHAIRMAN PORTER acknowledged it made sense from the standpoint of providing motivation for restitution on large bills. He asked if there was an objection. There being none, Amendment 9 passed. SENATOR DONLEY commented that the department had a "pretty miserable record of dealing with the victims of crime." He hoped efforts to keep prisoners happy did not result in victims being ignored again. CHAIRMAN PORTER indicated victims' rights had risen to a constitutional level equal to defendants' rights. Number 1570 CHAIRMAN PORTER referred to page 4 and noted that lines 10-12 had been deleted. He asked Tom Meyer to explain a technical problem that had occurred. THOMAS MEYER, Committee Aide, House Judiciary Committee, said "You have to go back up to subsection (E) and take out the part where they can't engage in bodybuilding or weight lifting." REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if that could be left to the bill drafter. CHAIRMAN PORTER agreed and noted it needed to be addressed as a conforming amendment to Amendment 4. He specified that the phrase "in bodybuilding or weight lifting" should be deleted. Number 1652 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 10 to CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM, saying he wanted it on the record to show his objection to micro-management. Amendment 10 read: Page 5, line 14: Insert new subsection as follows: (f) The commissioner shall only allow television viewing of the following programs (1) any Walt Disney production; (2) "The Waltons"; (3) "Little House on the Prairie"; (five more subsections in similar vein not included) REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN immediately withdrew Amendment 10. Number 1667 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 11 to CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM, dated 3/20/96 and labeled "Z.1", which read: Page 4, line 32: Delete "January 1, 1997" Insert "January 1, 1998" CHAIRMAN PORTER asked Senator Donley if he supported the amendment. SENATOR DONLEY replied, "Most of the reasons that people asked me to do that amendment, the committee has taken out of the bill now." REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said she objected, anyway. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated, "I thought in your statement that this was to ... give them a year to meet the requirements for a GED and a high school diploma." Number 1708 CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was an objection to Amendment 11. REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY restated her objection. CHAIRMAN PORTER asked for a roll call vote. Voting for Amendment11 were Representatives Bunde, Finkelstein, Green and Porter. Voting against it was Representative Toohey. Representatives Vezey and B. Davis were absent. Chairman Porter noted that Amendment 11 passed. Number 1744 CHAIRMAN PORTER mentioned that Anne Carpeneti was going to provide information about square footage requirements. SENATOR DONLEY stated there was a "substantial difference test" between what the constitution would require and what would actually be provided. He did not know if they would be able to get an answer. "We know what Cleary requires," he said. "And probably the biggest problem here, of course, is the issue of the dormitories, whether the state, in new construction of prisons, should be able to provide for some sort of ... reasonable dormitory accommodation, which would conform with the United States Constitution, versus having to provide two- or three-people rooms for everybody. The bill ... goes a way towards that now, freeing up the state's flexibility." Number 1790 CHAIRMAN PORTER indicated that if some obvious course was developed in the next week, they could get together with the sponsor and develop an amendment in the House Finance Committee. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE moved that CSSSSB 175, as amended, move from committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes. CHAIRMAN PORTER noted there was a motion to move the bill, as amended, with individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes. He asked if there was an objection. There being none, CSSSSB 175, as amended, moved from the House Judiciary Committee. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to conduct, the House Judiciary Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:25 p.m.