Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/16/1995 02:00 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
March 16, 1995
2:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Representative Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Representative Al Vezey
Representative Gary Davis
Representative Norman Rokeberg
Representative Caren Robinson
Representative Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
* HB 230: "An Act making appropriations to the Department of
Education for support of kindergarten, primary, and
secondary education and for community schools programs
for fiscal year 1996 and fiscal year 1997; making
appropriations from the constitutional budget reserve
fund under art. IX, sec. 17(c), Constitution of the
State of Alaska; and providing for an effective date."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
HB 125: "An Act relating to disclosures to school officials of
information about certain minors."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
HB 168: "An Act relating to temporary permits for certain
optometrists."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HB 171: "An Act providing that the commissioner of education
serves at the pleasure of the Board of Education; and
providing for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
HHES - 03/16/95
HB 228: "An Act reducing payment levels for the program of aid
to families with dependent children and the adult
public assistance program."
SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
(* First public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
CARL ROSE, Executive Director
Association of Alaska School Boards
316 W. 11th Street
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-1083
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
BECKY RICHARDS, Parent
Sitka School District
713 Sirstad Street
Sitka, AK 99835
Telephone: (907) 747-6850
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
MIKE McHONE, Superintendent, High School Principal
Cordova School District
P.O. Box 140
Cordova, AK 99574
Telephone: (907) 424-3265
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
CAROLYN EVANS, Vice-president
Sitka School Board
P.O. Box 902
Sitka, AK 99835
Telephone: (907) 747-8707
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
BRUCE BACHEN, President
Sitka School Board
713 Sirstad Street
Sitka, AK 99835
Telephone: (907) 747-6850
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
WENDY CWIKLINKSI, Parent
2981 Glacierwood Ct.
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 790-3472
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
DEBRA GERRISH, Parent
9202 Emily Way
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 789-3236
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
STEVE McPHETRES, Executive Director
Alaska Council of School Administrators
326 4th Street, #404
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-9702
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
BECKY TURNER-BOGREN, President
Fairbanks Council of PTAs
P.O. Box 342
Fairbanks, AK 99725
Telephone: (907) 474-0235
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
LARRY WIGET, Director of Government Relations
Anchorage School Board
4600 DeBarr Road
Anchorage, AK 99510
Telephone: (907) 262-2255
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
KAREN DOXEY, Parent Representative
Glacier Valley Site Council
P.O. Box 32234
Juneau, AK 99803
Telephone: (907) 789-9762
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
KIMBERLY HOMME', Teacher
Gruening Middle School
2903 West 29th Avenue
Anchorage, AK 99517
Telephone: (907) 248-9980
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
KRISTINE HARDER, Chair
Gastineau Parents Advisory Committee
1016 Wee Burn Drive
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-6179
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
CATHY CONNOR, Parent
745 Fifth Street
Douglas, AK 99824
Telephone: (907) 364-3772
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
NANCY DeCHERNEY, Parent
P.O. Box 210573
Auke Bay, AK 99821
Telephone: (907) 789-5031
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
JUNE HALL, Parent
8393 North Douglas
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-6790
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
MARTY LASTER, Superintendent
Craig School District
P.O. Box 800
Craig, AK 99921
Telephone: (907) 826-3271
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
MICHAEL ALLEN, Member, Gastineau School Site Council;
Adjunct faculty member, University of Alaska Southeast;
Member of Juneau Business Community
P.O. Box 240641
Douglas, AK 99824
Telephone: (907) 463-4835
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
JACK KREINHEDER, Policy Analyst
Office of Management and Budget
Office of the Governor
P.O. Box 110020
Juneau, AK 99811
Telephone: (907) 465-4676
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
LIZ JOHNSON, Parent
4004 Ridgeway
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 780-4357
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
CATHERINE FRITZ, Parent
4120 Birch Lane
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 789-1825
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
SALLY RUE, Parent
7083 Hendrickson Road
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 789-5516
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
CLAUDIA DOUGLAS, President
National Education Association - Alaska
114 Seward Street
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-3090
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
DUANE GUILEY, Director of School Finance
Department of Education
Goldbelt Building
801 W. 10th Street, Second Floor
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-8679
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
JOHN HOLST, Superintendent
Sitka School District
P.O. Box 179
Sitka, AK 99835
Telephone: (907) 747-8622
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
KATE YOUNG, Parent
P.O. Box 33122
Juneau, AK 99803
Telephone: (907) 780-6052
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
DON SCHULZ, Retired teacher
4101 Abbott Road
Anchorage, AK 99507
Telephone: (907) 344-4929
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
DON FANCHER, Executive Director,
AVCP Housing Authority;
Former School Board President,
Lower Kuskokwim School District;
Former member, State Board of Education
P.O. Box 2027
Bethel, AK 99559
Telephone: (907) 543-5946
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 230.
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN
Alaska State Legislature
Room 24, State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4931
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided the sponsor statement for HB 125.
MELINDA GRUENING, Administrative Assistant
Representative Joe Green's Office
Room 24, State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4931
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 125.
ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant to the Commissioner
Department of Health and Social Services
Alaska Office Building
350 Main Street, Room 317
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3347
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 125.
TOM ANDERSON, Legislative Assistant
Representative Terry Martin's Office
Room 502, State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3783
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided sponsor statement for HB 171.
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 230
SHORT TITLE: APPROP: FY 96 & FY 97 EDUCATION PROGRAMS
SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/03/95 566 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/03/95 566 (H) HES, FINANCE
03/14/95 (H) HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/14/95 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/16/95 (H) HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 125
SHORT TITLE: JUVENILE CRIMINAL RECORDS TO SCHOOLS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GREEN,Toohey,Bunde
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/26/95 143 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/26/95 143 (H) HES, JUD
02/23/95 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/23/95 (H) MINUTE(HES)
02/23/95 (H) MINUTE(HES)
02/23/95 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/16/95 (H) HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 168
SHORT TITLE: PERMITS FOR NONRESIDENT OPTOMETRISTS
SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/08/95 273 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/08/95 273 (H) HES, L&C
03/07/95 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/07/95 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/16/95 (H) HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 171
SHORT TITLE: COMMR OF EDUCATION SERVES AT BDS PLEASURE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/10/95 301 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/10/95 301 (H) HES, FINANCE
03/16/95 (H) HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 228
SHORT TITLE: REDUCTION IN PUBLIC ASSISTANCE PAYMENTS
SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/03/95 565 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/03/95 565 (H) HES, FINANCE
03/14/95 (H) HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/14/95 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/16/95 (H) HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-22, SIDE A
Number 000
CO-CHAIR CON BUNDE called the meeting of the House Health,
Education and Social Services standing committee to order at 2:00
p.m. Present at the call to order were Representatives Bunde,
Toohey, Davis and Vezey. Co-Chair Bunde announced that a quorum
was present to conduct business, read the calendar, and announced
that the meeting was on teleconference. Co-Chair Bunde requested
that testimony be limited to two minutes because of the large
number of people wishing to testify.
HHES - 03/16/95
HB 230 - APPROP: FY 96 & FY 97 EDUCATION PROGRAMS
CARL ROSE, Executive Director, Association of Alaska School Boards
(AASB) stated that his association is opposed to HB 230 for many
reasons. First, the AASB has a system it is dealing with that was
created in a period of wealth. Now that there is a revenue
downturn, no one is addressing that system. The AASB feels it has
a responsibility for the oversight and accountability of the
educational system.
Number 171
MR. ROSE explained a sheet he had passed out to the HESS Committee
members. This sheet contained what Mr. Rose views as some of the
"pillars of public policy." Within the framework of legislation,
statutes and regulations, negotiated agreements, foundation
funding, and "interpretations" are the framework of public policy.
Those factors comprise state policy.
MR. ROSE said those policies, regulations, etc., require an amount
of money to function. HB 230 would affect the revenue side of the
equation without addressing the impact that will be created. Mr.
Rose has great concern on behalf of the AASB because no one is
asking the policy question. He asked, "What is the public policy
of the state going to be?"
Number 230
MR. ROSE said basically, cutting revenue is the easy part of the
job, although the legislators may not think so. The hard part of
the job is to redefine what the state's policy is going to be. Mr.
Rose asked about the state's responsibility to children's education
in grades kindergarten through 12 (K-12). Under the Constitution,
the state is supposed to provide free public education to all
school-age children.
MR. ROSE continued that the statutes and regulations that define
state policy require funding. School districts are required to
provide retirement systems, provide medical coverage, honor labor
relations, adhere to tenure regulations, etc. All of those bills
have represented state policy. To cut an amount of money leaves
educators no ability to manage the system.
MR. ROSE felt it was irresponsible on the part of the legislature
to take the revenue away without addressing the need of redefining
the educational system.
Number 296
CO-CHAIR BUNDE noted if a person represents a group or
organization, he or she may have three minutes to testify.
MR. ROSE said he is concerned about the state's policy. He wanted
to know what will be the policy of education in the state of
Alaska. He asked, "What is it that we want to do with our
children? What are we going to fund, and what do we value?" Mr.
Rose said educators need some assistance in prioritizing to reduce
the funding at the state level and leave it to local control to
decide how an education is going to be provided under all the
state's constraints.
MR. ROSE said it is impossible to do this. The state is reducing
funding while not giving educators the latitude to manage school
districts. Mr. Rose felt issues of improvement in the quality of
education are critical. Currently, those kinds of issues cannot be
addressed.
Number 358
MR. ROSE added that educators are bound by the framework of the
state. Mr. Rose asked legislators to also add to the previously
discussed framework issues of legislation, regulation, court
decisions, foundation funding and negotiation. He asked them to
also add the issues of fairness and equity. That puts considerable
constraints on the K-12 system. If educators were relieved of some
of those constraints, the fall could be cushioned.
MR. ROSE stressed that educators need the money to continue to
function. If educators cannot get the money, they need the
latitude.
Number 390
CO-CHAIR BUNDE assured Mr. Rose that HESS Committee members
understand more latitude is needed, and there is some movement in
that direction.
MR. ROSE said more money is also needed.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE announced that Representative Robinson arrived at
3:06 p.m.
CO-CHAIR CYNTHIA TOOHEY agreed with Mr. Rose. However, there is no
money. Therefore, the other answer to the problem is cuts in other
areas to make budgets. Co-Chair Toohey said the money is not
there, and it is not going to be there. If people think the cuts
are bad now, cuts are going to be even worse in the next ten years.
Everyone knows that. Spending, therefore, must be redirected. If
the legislature is mandating that education money be spent on
benefits, salaries, etc., that is where changes must be made.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY continued that changes must be made with no
striking. Everything will have to change.
Number 472
MR. ROSE added that there are two scenarios. There is a fiscal
gap, and if that is going to be addressed and validated based on
revenue minus expenses, yes there is a fiscal gap if the state is
trying to get on a revenue cycle. But in terms of wealth and
expenses, Alaska is a very wealthy state. The issue is a judgement
call. Is the state talking about revenue cycles and expenses, or
is the state talking about the wealth of Alaska and the
responsibility to K-12 education.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said that the state is looking at revenue cycles.
Number 530
BECKY RICHARDS, Parent, Sitka School District (SSD), said she came
to Juneau to testify because she has worked on the budget
committees for the last ten years in Sitka. Ten years ago, when
the foundation formula went into effect, the SSD cut $927,000 from
its budget. Every year since then, it has cut another six-digit
figure. The SSD is at the point now where it has reached the cap,
and there is no way to get around that cap. HB 230 puts even more
of a strangle-hold on the district.
MS. RICHARDS continued that as a parent, she resents the fact that
she has to struggle for her child's education in this respect. The
state needs to do more for its children. The state is concerned
with cutting money from social services, etc. But the state must
realize that if it continues to cut money from education, there is
no other place for these children to go but on the social services
lists and welfare rolls.
MS. RICHARDS said there is a wall in Sitka where people on public
assistance sit because they cannot get a decent job because they
are not properly educated. They cannot get the attention they
need.
Number 597
MS. RICHARDS asked and begged HESS Committee members to reconsider
HB 230. She understands there is no money. But her district has
done a very fine job. It has cut out custodial services,
recontracted the lunch program, cut speech pathologists, cut a
swimming program and has cut numerous teachers. The high school
had 29 teachers, and now there are 21. The pupil ratio is
maintaining.
MS. RICHARDS said the SSD is being punished because it has been
frugal. She again asked HESS Committee members to reconsider.
Number 655
MIKE McHONE, Superintendent and High School Principal, Cordova
School District, testified via teleconference that he had listened
to the testimony given on March 14, 1995, on HB 230 and felt he
needed to respond.
MR. McHONE said he has some great concerns. He heard a comment
last week that stated that 65 percent of the people in the state do
not have children. He has since found out that corresponds only to
the population of Anchorage. He turned that around to say that 45
percent of the people in Anchorage do have children. Mr. McHone
asked if there is a group of people in Anchorage, or anywhere else
for that matter, that, due to a higher percentage of the
population, the state or municipality is obligated to provide a
service for them. Mr. McHone does not believe there is.
MR. McHONE asked how educators can be expected to finance an
education system with less money than was available ten years ago.
He looks at the school district budget in Cordova that he is
responsible for. When he compares operating budgets from 1995 to
1985, he sees that the budget has gone up 35 percent. The student
population has increased 40 percent.
Number 725
MR. McHONE continued by saying the starting teacher salary has
increased only 19 percent. The cost of a textbook has increased
anywhere from 100 to 150 percent during the last 10 years. In
1982, Cordova Junior/Senior High had 208 students, 23 certified
staff members and 3 custodians. This year, there are 220 students,
17.5 certified staff members and 1.5 custodians.
MR. McHONE has not included the cost increases in fuel, insurance,
electricity, etc., but he is willing to bet that the increases are
all above 35 percent. He said the legislators are asking him to
run a school district with less than he had in 1985. Any student
he has enrolled in the personal finance class can tell the
legislators the reality of being able to do that is near
impossible.
Number 777
MR. McHONE said if the HESS Committee members want educators to
tell them where to cut the budget, they should look at where the
government is spending money in areas that are either not mandated
by the Constitution or which serves something other than an
essential service. He asked in what state does an individual pay
less taxes than in Alaska. He asked what other state in the Union
gives every resident a personal check every year. He asked what
state does these things and then cuts its constitutional
responsibility to 20 percent of the population. That is how many
people are enrolled in the public schools in Alaska right now.
Number 820
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said 65 percent of the people in Anchorage do not
have children in the public schools. They may have children, but
they do not have them in the public schools. In addition, the
legislators are looking at non-mandated entitlements. Co-Chair
Bunde assured Mr. McHone that everyone feels as strongly has he.
Co-Chair Bunde announced that Representatives Brice and Rokeberg
joined the meeting at 3:15 p.m.
Number 850
CAROLYN EVANS, Vice president, Sitka School Board, testified via
teleconference that she is in her third year as vice president.
She currently has four children in the district. She has also been
working on the district's budget committee for the last 10 to 12
years. She pleaded with the HESS Committee members not to cut the
unit values. The district cannot absorb any more cuts. The
district is currently looking at 17.8 percent dropout rate in the
last 4 years.
MS. EVANS said that something needs to be done about the dropout
rate. Since 1987-88, the number of teachers has gone from 29 to
21, yet there is going to be an increase of 133 to 156 children
going into the high school in the coming school year. However,
there are less teachers than was present in 1987.
Number 908
MS. EVANS stressed to HESS Committee members that these children in
grades K-12 are the leaders of tomorrow. They will be sitting
where the legislators are, but they will not be if they do not have
an education. She asked HESS Committee members to please
reconsider HB 230. She asked them to look at other areas to help
out the educators.
BRUCE BACHEN, President, Sitka School Board, summarized a few
remarks. HB 230 would cut the Sitka School District's funding from
the state about $200,000 to $300,000. The continued erosion of
state support coupled with a local cap will destroy the quality of
education that the district has worked so hard to create. In a
very real sense, the local school board and assembly are losing
local control over education simply because they lack the means to
determine the financial future.
Number 973
MR. BACHEN said there are a few options. One relates to the
priority that the state places on education. Information from the
Alaska-Parent Teacher Association (PTA) suggests that 45 out of 50
states put a higher percentage toward education than Alaska does.
The second option relates to Alaska being ranked as the number one
tax haven by Money magazine. Therefore, there is no excuse to cut
the quality of education.
MR. BACHEN urged HESS Committee members to amend the bill to allow
education to be funded. Educators are counting on them to do so.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said Mr. Bachen's concern about the local cap is
being considered.
Number 1026
WENDY CWIKLINSKI, parent, said she moved to Juneau in August from
Virginia. Her husband is stationed in Juneau with the Coast Guard.
He is a Navy chaplain. Her family will be stationed in Juneau
approximately three to four years. In her life in the military,
her family must move from school district to school district. It
is an accepted fact that families have to deal with the disparities
between the districts.
MS. CWIKLINSKI said that the situation in Juneau, however, has been
overwhelming. She has seen her children come from a wonderful
school district to Juneau where they are barely surviving. She has
listened to the teachers and she has listened to the special
services people, and they are all frustrated from a lack of time.
MS. CWIKLINSKI said that lack of time comes from a lack of
personnel, and that is a result of a lack of funding. In Juneau,
the negotiations for the new teacher contract are at a standstill.
Ms. Cwiklinski sees the issue from both sides. The teachers are
going to ask for more money because the state is not giving them
the money for the supplies they need to teach.
Number 1090
MS. CWIKLINSKI understood that there must be cuts someplace, but
cutting the education of children is "cutting our nose to spite our
face." It is just not worth it, especially when the cuts are at
the elementary level. Legislators cannot make these cuts and
expect these children to know the basics. The teachers do not have
enough time to prepare. They do not have enough time to really
teach the children the way they should be taught.
MS. CWIKLINSKI said HESS Committee members cannot expect these
children to become responsible, tax-paying citizens in the future.
This is the reason public education is in existence, to make
children responsible citizens who are able to make their own way in
the world.
Number 1150
DEBRA GERRISH, Parent, said she has two children in the school
district. One is a junior, and one is a third grader. She is very
upset because she sees her third grader getting much less of an
education than her junior. She is very happy her junior will be
coming out of the school system next year. She asked HESS
Committee members to look at a sheet sent out by the Department of
Education (DOE). It showed the cuts that will occur across the
state if HB 230 passes.
MS. GERRISH provided an example. Anchorage will lose $4.1 million
next year (1996). In 1997, Anchorage will lose $9 million. In
Fairbanks, next year they will lose $1.4 million, and in 1997 they
will lose $3.2 million. Ms. Gerrish was referring to fiscal school
years. She said that Juneau will lose $500,000 this year, and $1
million in FY 97. Kenai, which is also up against the cap, is
facing a loss of $1 million this year, and a loss of $2.2 million
next year.
Number 1208
MS. GERRISH said HESS Committee members have heard the parents
talk. Ms. Gerrish's daughter in high school has books that are
ragged. They are falling apart. There is not enough money in the
Juneau School District to buy the books kids need. There was a
child this year who went without a book for six weeks at the
beginning of the high school year. These students deserve better
than that.
MS. GERRISH said children are in crowded classes. There was an
editorial in the newspaper this week about how classroom size does
not make a difference. Ms. Gerrish read the HESS Committee members
an article from Parade magazine, January 8 edition, that states
class size does make a difference.
MS. GERRISH read the report from Bill Moyers, "In New York City, I
visited Landmark High, and the Coalition School for Social Change.
Two experimental high schools based on the notion that small is
better. Enrollments are limited to fewer than 300 students to
prevent the violence that results from sheer overcrowding; and
teachers quickly summon parents if conflicts break out among
students."
Number 1257
MS. GERRISH knows that Juneau already has more than 300 students in
its schools. However, they do not have to be overcrowded. There
are already problems with violence in this state. Those problems
do not need to be added to. Ms. Gerrish said there used to be a
wonderful school tax when she came to Alaska 20 years ago. That
needs to be reinstated. In addition, the income tax needs to be
reinstated.
MS. GERRISH said, "Be brave, be the leaders that you were elected
to be, and pass the money that we need to run this state and give
our kids an education."
Number 1287
STEVE McPHETRES, Executive Director, Alaska Council of School
Administrators (ACSA), said his association has submitted written
testimony. The ACSA is in opposition to this legislation. It
believes the maintenance of the services and the offerings to the
young people of Alaska is extremely important.
MR. McPHETRES said he would like to take another position. Last
weekend he had the opportunity to work very closely with a dozen
high school students from across Southeast Alaska, Anchorage, and
Kotzebue in a leadership program that his organization plus the
University of Alaska Southeast co-conducted.
MR. McPHETRES was very encouraged by the quality of these young
folks and their futures. He escorted the group to Camelot, a play
in Juneau. As the group left the theatre, the members raved about
the quality of the production and the confidence of the players.
In addition, many students participated in the production, which
was wholesome, constructive and educational.
Number 1340
MR. McPHETRES said he had a very special kindergarten teacher (his
daughter) arrive home one night last week very excited because she
was doing assessments on her kindergarten students. She asked one
boy a problem: If she had 15 guppies, and she wanted to put 3 into
a container, how many containers would she need? The young boy
quickly said, "five." She asked how he figured that out, and he
said, "Three, six, nine, twelve, fifteen. Five."
MR. McPHETRES said HESS Committee members need to consider
accomplishments such as these as budget cuts are addressed, and the
state looks at the maintenance of the opportunities for young
people in the coming years.
MR. McPHETRES said in the end, it will make Alaska a stronger
place, and a better place to live. The ACSB hopes HESS Committee
members will reconsider this bill.
Number 1386
BECKY TURNER-BOGREN, President, Fairbanks Council of PTAs,
testified via teleconference against HB 230. The Fairbanks PTA and
PTAs statewide favor adequate and equitable funding for education.
While forward funding sounds attractive, it only meets the first
two criteria. It is adequate and equitable. However the largest
concern is that future years are being funded at current levels.
MS. TURNER-BOGREN said in Fairbanks, as throughout the state, there
has been steady growth. Certainly, there will be many other issues
concerning growth. Fort Knox gold mine will be opening, and the
district has had several calls just this week from families who
were concerned about the effect of Fort Greeley shutting down.
They wanted to know how many families will be moving up to
Fairbanks.
Number 1452
MS. TURNER-BOGREN stressed that the growth issues are huge
unknowns. There is also potential for growth in other areas. This
is not a good time to be freezing funding for education. The net
effect is much lower funds per student. She has heard a lot of
testimony from around the state, and she has not heard anybody say
this is a good idea. In Fairbanks, there has been much effort put
into protecting the student-teacher ratio, and keeping class sizes
down to an adequate level.
MS. TURNER-BOGREN said this has been at the expense of significant
and important programs. They have to decide what to cut. This is
not a good time to propose further cuts. As class sizes increase,
and programs that meet educational needs are cut because of
funding, the quality of education will decrease.
MS. TURNER-BOGREN said the timing of this bill is unfortunate.
Educators in Fairbanks are on spring break. There are many people
who would be extremely interested in this issue who are out of town
or who are away from their houses. She has worked hard to contact
people, but she wanted to stress that a lack of public testimony
reflects a lack of public interest. It reflects a lack of public
knowledge about this issue.
Number 1526
MS. TURNER-BOGREN has talked to many people who also believe it is
time the state began thinking about a constitutional amendment to
start funding education through a tax or through the permanent fund
dividend. When times are tight, education funding should not be
getting the same kind of review and cuts.
MS. TURNER-BOGREN supports responsible spending. However, to cut
education just because everyone is being cut, is wrong. Education
has a significant impact on the future of Alaska's economy and
society. Alaska as a society must say that it will educate its
young, and educate them well.
Number 1570
CO-CHAIR BUNDE assured Ms. Turner-Bogren that the bill was not
timed to hit spring break. Teachers are not on spring break in
Juneau, as is obvious by the large attendance at this meeting. The
hearing was noticed at least a week ago. If folks want to be in
Hawaii this time of year, that is their choice. However, this bill
was not scheduled in a sneaky manner.
MS. TURNER-BOGREN did not mean to say there was underhanded
activity. She meant to say that many people would be very
interested in communicating their concerns, and a lack of testimony
does not mean there is a lack of concern.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he knows it is spring break because his wife,
who is a teacher, is able to visit him in Juneau this week.
Number 1604
CO-CHAIR BUNDE assured all those testifying that the HESS Committee
is not the last stop for this bill. After the HESS Committee, the
bill will travel to the Finance Committee, and then it may go to
the floor. He knows there will be a great deal of debate in that
case as well. If people have not had an ability to communicate
with HESS Committee members this afternoon, there will be other
opportunities.
MS. TURNER-BOGREN said that school starts up next week, and she
will be busy letting folks know.
Number 1640
LARRY WIGET, Director of Government Relations, Anchorage School
District, said for the record that according to the Anchorage
mayor's statistics there are 248,296 people in the Anchorage bowl,
and 47,609 are enrolled in the Anchorage School District (ASD). It
is believed this is the highest pupil-to-adult ratio of any
population of anywhere in the country.
MR. WIGET said the ASD opposes passage of HB 230 and supports full
funding of education at the $61,000 level. The statistics that
were passed out by the DOE shows that the ASD would lose $4.1
million this year, and lose an additional $9 million next year.
MR. WIGET said education is a people-intensive business. For
example, ASD school buses drive 2.5 million miles yearly, and
comprise the largest transportation system in the state. The ASD
serves over 3 million lunches and 199,000 breakfasts annually,
which makes the ASD food service the largest restaurant in the
state.
Number 1681
MR. WIGET said next year and the following year enrollment in the
ASD is expected to rise by approximately 400 students each year.
But the ASD is not satisfied with what is going on in the school
district. The district is restructuring and it has put money into
next year's budget to expand the middle school program and for
schools for students at risk. This is all within the confines of
the $61,000 instructional unit (IU). This has not risen since
1992.
MR. WIGET noted that the average SAT scores in the ASD is 920,
while the national average is 902. About 55 percent of ASD
students take the test, and in some areas where the scores have
been higher, many less students take the tests. The average ACT
score in the ASD is 22.6, and the national average is 20.8.
However, the ASD is not satisfied and they want to see that higher.
This bill will make that difficult.
MR. WIGET added that paper costs have increased 45 percent,
therefore he would not provide his testimony on paper, but rather
simply read it. The ASD has cut, over the past years, millions of
dollars from its budgets. This past year, the ASD has increased
its pupil-teacher ratio an average of one in the elementary schools
and two in the secondary.
Number 1730
MR. WIGET said the ASD has all but eliminated library aides,
restructured the elementary music program, eliminated aide
positions, cut a million dollars in technology funds and has been
unable to keep up with instructional technology in the schools.
MR. WIGET added that the ASD has delayed the purchase of new buses.
In essence, this cut would be, at this point in time, a tremendous
blow. The ASD has trimmed the fat from the budget, they are into
the meat. It is the students that will suffer.
Number 1756
KAREN DOXEY, Parent representative, Glacier Valley Site Council,
said parents are interested, and they are involved, they just often
don't know when to leap into the legislative process to testify.
She gets most of her contact with parents at school meetings,
soccer games, etc. Therefore, she has a fair idea of what a lot of
parents are thinking.
MS. DOXEY said schools in Juneau and in the state have had their
funding cut and cut again. Some positive things have come from
that. Like a family, in hard economic times districts have come
together, decided what is important, and have become flexible and
resourceful. However, no matter how flexible and resourceful they
are, districts still need the basic resources to function.
MS. DOXEY wished she could take HESS Committee members into Glacier
Valley School for one day to see how those resources are spread
around. There is a part-time reading specialist that travels from
class to class. There is also a half-time counselor who spends his
lunch time with children hoping he can open the door to them. The
children can look at his schedule and see when he will be there.
Number 1804
MS. DOXEY said there is a half-time music teacher, who miraculously
gets concerts put on. Some children get the opportunity to feel
special. She wishes that could be for all children. HB 230 would
raise class sizes again. The schools are already way above the
district recommendations. On paper, children are only numbers.
However, if one could imagine his or her kindergarten student
sitting in a class with 27 other children trying to feel special
and understand what is going on, that is where it becomes real.
MS. DOXEY said HESS Committee members may think parents do not want
to pay for education. They want education but they do not want to
pay for it. She has heard time and time again from parents that
they want the state income tax reinstated. They did not mind
paying it, and they don't know why it went away. Let's do it
again.
MS. DOXEY said those are things that have to be looked at. The
foundation formula, the education budget and the federal
restrictions all have to be addressed. However, that is not a
reason to penalize the students this year. Therefore, she asked
that HB 230 be abandoned, and support be given to HB 101 which
provides for maintenance funding for the current year.
Number 1860
KIMBERLY HOMME', teacher, Gruening Middle School, said she is in
Juneau on spring break on her own money, and she wanted to say that
maintaining the funding for the next two years would be detrimental
to education in Anchorage, particularly in urban areas. Therefore,
there is no way the AD will make it with less considering that
projected enrollments are increasing.
MS. HOMME' is concerned that the large number of students in the
classrooms make it an unsafe environment. The education
environment is more of a crowd control issue than a fun place to
learn new things. Ms. Homme' has a classroom that is not really a
classroom. It is a converted rifle range. It has cement floors,
no windows and hanging fluorescent lights. It is not a traditional
classroom, and the reason it is there is because the physical
education (PE) classes are too crowded at 122 percent of capacity.
Therefore, students need to come to her classroom for a quarter to
be without PE to take a class in study skills.
MS. HOMME' said the students survive her class, but they are not in
PE with their friends. The point is, in other areas of the school,
the eighth grade classes are at 35 and more students. This makes
learning difficult. The violence in those classrooms increases.
There is more detention and suspension.
MS. HOMME' worked on an after-school discipline committee with
other teachers on their own time in an attempt to figure out what
to do about this new wave of violence in the classroom and in the
school. The teachers are working on this, but they cannot do it
alone. She urged HESS Committee members to amend HB 230 to reflect
more of the Governor's proposal of an increase with an additional
$18 million to reduce the class sizes so teachers can educate the
students of Alaska more efficiently.
Number 1942
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he would like nothing better than to do what
Ms. Homme' asked, if he could. Several people have said that
parents are being united by these problems. Co-Chair Bunde heard
from an Anchorage parent that day who was very resentful that money
is not being well-spent because some schools have a language-
immersion program, polar school, all-day kindergarten. The schools
have nice things, unfortunately, the time has come when only the
necessary is possible.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the rifle range is a nice idea. He said if it
had been constructed on a necessary basis, it would have been a
classroom. Co-Chair Bunde said his wife started teaching
kindergarten with 30 children. When Co-Chair Bunde began teaching
in the district the educational fad was classrooms with no walls.
Last year the state funded the last walls for those wall-less
classrooms.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. Homme' to understand the frustration of
the public. Money has not solved many of the problems.
Number 1990
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS said he knows Ms. Homme' and he knows how
hard she works. She puts a lot of dedication into her job.
Representative Davis used to work with her at the city of Soldotna.
He asked her to not feel alone as someone who is still in the line
of fire. Everyone feels the same.
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG asked if Gruening Middle School was
in the Eagle River/Chugiak area on the Capital Improvement Planning
request for the city of Anchorage.
MS. HOMME' answered that there is a school that is going to built
in South Anchorage that she is aware of. It is on line for two or
three years from now.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked about Eagle River.
MS. HOMME' said that two schools were going in, one in South
Anchorage and one in Eagle River.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said his colleagues from around the state
are looking into this squeeze problem.
Number 2023
REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON appreciated the testimony from Ms.
Homme'. Ms. Homme' brought up the fact that Governor Knowles has
been able to find a way to provide money. Everyone sitting at the
HESS Committee meeting is saying the state does not have the money
and it cannot be done. Representative Robinson wanted to know how
Governor Knowles found a way to put $18 million into schools while
leaving the IU at $61,000.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said when committee members say funding
cannot happen, they are forgetting that it has happened in the
budget that has been presented to the legislature.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE thanked Ms. Homme' for testifying in Juneau and
spending her own money to do so. She said her husband works in
Juneau.
Number 2045
REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE suggested that if Co-Chair Bunde's parent
in Anchorage does have those concerns that she address the school
board with those concerns because that is where those decisions are
made. The school boards need to have the adequate funding.
KRISTINE HARDER, Chair, Gastineau Parents Advisory Committee, said
she represents all of Douglas Island. She asked her principal if
she was sure she really wanted Ms. Harder to testify at the HESS
Committee meeting. There may be people in her school who would not
agree with what she is about to say.
MS. HARDER said she is in the very fortunate position of being able
to be a full-time parent. Therefore, she volunteers in the schools
twice a week. She thinks she has a very good grasp of what is
going on concerning the cuts that have taken place. It all comes
down to the fact that these cuts are not going to affect her
children. And it is not going to affect the children who are in
the upper 25 percent of their classes.
Number 2100
MS. HARDER said her school's jurisdiction contains two housing
projects. There are children who have been sexually abused and who
are suffering fetal alcohol effects, and whose parents drink to
excess. There is really a sad state of affairs and the counseling
position had to be cut to half-time. This means the teacher is
trying to deal with those children as well as the children with
Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD), as well as the regular children,
like Ms. Harder's, who may only be a cut-up part of the time.
MS. HARDER explained that the teacher therefore must deal with all
this. Both of the teachers Ms. Harder works with are excellent.
One of them, Nina Massey, should be teacher of the year. When Ms.
Harder is in the classroom helping students with math, there are
some children who simply cannot grasp how to carry numbers. They
just do not get it.
MS. HARDER said therefore, it is the children whose parents would
not come to testify, the kids whose parents do not help with their
homework, that are going to be going on the welfare rolls. She
said it is her concern that this a way of adding to the
disintegration of our society.
MS. HARDER announced that her principal would probably not want her
to say these next statements. However, she asked HESS Committee
members to table HB 230 and help the schools deal with tenure
before the cuts come along. The district's hands are tied.
Number 2140
MS. HARDER is from a union town, but this is the way she feels.
She is happy to pay income tax and give up her permanent fund.
However, she does not know how the schools can handle the cuts from
this bill unless the districts are provided with some other way to
deal with the cuts.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said Ms. Harder touched on a very important point.
Some parents do not help their kids with homework, and the state
cannot spend enough money to buy personal responsibility.
Number 2172
CATHY CONNOR, Parent, commented on how she knows schools must carry
a large burden these days. Teachers have to be parents and moral
counselors, and they must feed everyone. They are asked to do a
lot more than in the past. However, if they don't do it, it will
not get done, society is at that point. Anyway parents can help
the state, they will do it.
MS. CONNOR's young son, Colin, sat on her lap as she testified.
She patted him and said, "This is why we are all here." She asked
HESS Committee members to remember that.
Number 2215
NANCY DeCHERNEY, Parent, said she used to be on the site council at
Auke Bay last year for the cuts. The outcome of the cuts was
pretty dramatic. Now, for example, there is a half-time librarian
who is also a gym teacher. Ms. DeCherney supports HESS Committee
members in trying to cut costs and trying to contain costs. It has
also been mentioned that this does not leave the schools with many
ways to deal with expenses and situations.
MS. DeCHERNEY said the schools cannot lay off tenured teachers, but
there is the problem of how those teachers are going to be paid.
That is something that needs to be addressed. Tenure is a pretty
touchy issue, and Ms. DeCherney understands both sides of it.
MS. DeCHERNEY said Auke Bay is out of white construction paper.
There are 29 seven-year-olds in a room the size of the HESS
Committee room. It is really difficult there. Ms. DeCherney
spends a lot of her time volunteering at the school, and right now,
parents are raising money for playground equipment. There would
not be playground equipment at Auke Bay School if there had not
been fund raisers.
Number 2260
MS. DeCHERNEY said the quality of education in a community is what
attracts people. As a state, there is a high level of educated
people and a high level of education. She asked that the level not
be dropped. It is an important investment in the state's future.
Education is an economic necessity.
Number 2277
MS. DeCHERNEY participated in the "Look to a Book" program fund
raiser, and she had no problem getting people to give money to
education. It is across the board, people are willing to fund
projects that will increase the educational level of children. The
money may not be in the budget, but people are willing to pay for
it. She asked legislators to look for places to cut.
MS. DeCHERNEY said Auke Bay school operates on a paper and glue
fund that is less than a state agency of 45 people. There are 568
children making snow flakes on less paper than a state agency uses.
Ms. DeCherney asked the state to look at the operating budget at
Auke Bay more closely. She thought education needs to be funded,
and educators need the tools to work with. She wished the HESS
Committee members good luck.
TAPE 95-22, SIDE B
Number 000
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Ms. DeCherney if the librarian/PE
teacher also gets no break.
MS. DeCHERNEY said the only break that teacher gets is running in
between classes.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said tenure seems to also be an issue
because of the serious cuts schools are having to take. The bottom
line is that most people believe teachers are doing a good job.
She asked if Ms. DeCherney felt teachers have also become a victim
of funding loss.
MS. DeCHERNEY said that everyone will experience "trauma" from the
cuts. This is for both the kids and teachers. Ms. DeCherney
challenged anyone in the HESS Committee room to spend a day with a
class full of children.
Number 074
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that the people most critical of education have
never spent a day in the classroom.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE mentioned that Representative Davis has a bill that
addresses her concern. The bill will reduce the state's use of
paper.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said the fiscal note on Representative
Davis's bill is zero, therefore she does not think the state will
get much money from it.
Number 143
JUNE HALL, Parent, said she has two children in the Juneau School
District. A lot of good points have been brought up in the
meeting, however, Ms. Hall sees that parents want their children to
be well-educated and safe. They want this more than anything
because that is their future. It is the responsibility of the
state to help with that goal. If it takes reorganization or new
taxes or whatever, that is more important than cutting the funding
for education.
MS. HALL said it seems that Alaska is in a unique position. Even
though the state is far removed from the Lower 48, it is not behind
the times and trends. Actually, Alaska is in a good position to
see the future, because what has happened in the Lower 48 will
eventually happen in Alaska.
MS. HALL said Alaskans can see the results of lack of funding for
education in the Lower 48. Therefore, Alaska is well-positioned to
prevent a lot of things that have happened Outside from happening
here. Cutting funding for education will bring Alaska a host of
unwanted problems.
Number 259
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY handed out a sheet showing the level and
composition of school revenue from 1991. Alaska is the third
highest in the nation, following New York and New Jersey. Alaska
is very high in terms of funding.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the sheet does not take into account
certain extremely rural districts that have a very high cost-per-
student. Whereas, when looking at Anchorage and Fairbanks, the
average cost per student drops to $5,000 to $6,000. This chart
does not take into account the extreme circumstances that exist in
Alaska.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he remembers the cost-per-student is over
$7,000 in Anchorage. However, Representative Brice's point is
well-taken. At Mt. Edgecumbe, the cost per student is $15,000. In
the Bristol Bay area, it is over $30,000 per student. Co-Chair
Bunde has a list of communities over three pages long that pay zero
local support to their public schools. There are 21 schools in the
state that have 12 or fewer students. Each of these schools costs
$160,000 a year to run.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE, if allowed, would close all those schools and put
the money where the majority of students are. It is not against
the law to close those schools. The Molly Hootch decision was not
a law, it was an agreement that ran out two years ago. It was an
agreement to spend state money.
Number 437
MARTY LASTER, Superintendent, Craig School District, knew the HESS
Committee members were expecting him to advocate schools. However,
he is also a parent and a taxpayer. Mr. Laster hoped to bring a
different perspective to the testimony. People have spoken
eloquently, and he knows HESS Committee members are concerned about
the reductions.
MR. LASTER spoke in terms of a pledge school districts have made to
taxpayers. The legislature has moved ahead the commitment to an
improved educational system and to raising standards. Legislators
correctly want districts to be more accountable. They want
districts to take responsibility for their students. The
communities want the same thing. The district staff wants to do
the same thing.
Number 519
MR. LASTER believes schools are responding in good faith. The
community demands no less. Mr. Laster respects the comments of Co-
Chair Bunde. All people in the state are in this together. This
is a statewide issue. Mr. Laster has been involved in education
for about 17 years. It sometimes gets dangerous when people talk
about a librarian here versus the cost of education there versus
basketball costs here.
MR. LASTER stressed that each district is very different, and local
choices must be made. Mr. Laster said his school is small. There
are currently 400 students. He came from an assistant
superintendent position in Mat-Su, where there was closer to 12,000
students. However, the growth in Craig is probably the greatest in
the state. They went from 141 students in 1984 to 400 currently.
MR. LASTER said Craig would benefit from a lower PTR (pupil-teacher
ratio) in the first through third grades. However, they would not
want to have this at the expense of other schools. Teachers are
working extremely hard. They are taking that pledge in terms of
the work they do each day. In addition, they are working to raise
the expectations in each of the content areas. They are outlining
performance-based assessments so people can come into the schools
and see how well students communicate.
Number 657
MR. LASTER said people can see the kinds of operations that
students perform in his school. His staff works extremely hard.
They are honoring the investment that legislators make in the
schools. He echoed a former speaker. While he fully supports full
funding, he would rather see late, adequate funding. He
appreciates the sincere struggle legislators have with the public
trust for Alaska's youth.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said Mr. Laster's point on the local options and
local applications is well-taken. The state is providing the
money, therefore there will be strings. In Tanana, the district
charters airplanes to send the basketball teams back and forth to
play neighboring areas. In the meantime, in Sitka they had to give
up their speech therapist.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the challenge faced is an awesome one. While
he supports local control, when the state signs the check there
must be local involvement as well.
Number 723
MR. LASTER suggested that the infrastructure across the state is
different, and therefore it makes it difficult to compare having
access through different means like the ferry versus roads versus
air.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asserted that there must be priorities, such as
speech therapists and the A B Cs. Somewhere down the line is
basketball.
MR. LASTER said he appreciates that and thanked the committee.
Number 781
MICHAEL ALLEN, Member of the Gastineau School Site Council,
adjunct faculty member at the University of Alaska Southeast and
member of the Juneau business community, said he has listened to
the litany of whines, complaints, fears and legitimate issues that
everyone faces regarding education funding in Alaska. He does not
want to add to the eloquently stated issues. He wanted to
challenge the Governor and the legislature to prove to parents that
education has a top priority in this state.
MR. ALLEN said for the legislature to sit and say there is no
money, and nothing can be done, is wrong. It is a reflection that
education has been a low priority. Education needs to be placed in
the number one, top priority. There is no single investment the
state can make that will provide Alaska with a better short and
long-term return on the money.
Number 840
MR. ALLEN said he went through a gruesome process of budget cutting
in Gastineau last year. That did result in creative and flexible
resource use in the school. However, there are incomplete computer
stations and not enough books and papers. Teachers are spending
thousands of dollars of their own money just to supply pencils and
crayons in their classrooms.
MR. ALLEN again challenged HESS Committee members, and he said he
would keep challenging them. Parents will vote accordingly. He
asked that education be made a priority, and that a way be found to
fund it. He asked them to look at creative options and/or put in
an income tax and/or take away the permanent fund. He asked them
to have political courage and not worry about whether or not they
are re-elected.
MR. ALLEN said it is more important that Alaska's children get a
good education.
Number 899
CO-CHAIR BUNDE reminded Mr. Allen that the largest single
expenditure in the state was education. Some people would call it
political courage, and others would call it a dictatorship.
Everyone must be involved to reach a consensus.
JACK KREINHEDER, Policy Analyst, Office of Management and Budget
OMB), said he was representing the OMB in his remarks. He wished
to speak about a different aspect of the bill, which is the fund
source. It is an appropriation from the constitutional budget
reserve. To sum up, the Administration has serious concerns about
the appropriation from the fund source. The Administration is not
stating outright opposition to the bill, but would like to indicate
concern.
MR. KREINHEDER said the Administration felt the bill may be
premature given those concerns. Perhaps it should not be passed at
this point. Firstly, the bill would take a large amount of money,
$1.4 billion, off the table and out of the state's largest source
of reserve fund. The concern there is the reduction in the state's
reserves and the ability to offset any unexpected decline in oil
prices or production.
MR. KREINHEDER said the second concern is that the Administration
feels this bill preempts the fiscal commission that was just
established by the legislature less than one month ago.
Appropriating $1.4 billion from the budget reserve fund would take
one of the major elements of any long-range fiscal or budget plan
out of the commission's purview. If the legislature is serious
about letting the commission work, it would be a good idea to hear
what it has to say before that decision is made.
Number 1018
MR. KREINHEDER continued that the Administration is concerned that
this action of depleting the state's reserves by $1.4 billion could
potentially jeopardize Alaska's bond rating. The Department of
Revenue (DOR) has some concerns. It believes the bond rating
agencies look at the balance of that budget reserve fund as one of
the factors that gives them comfort that the state can pay its
bonds.
MR. KREINHEDER said that is a bit of an unknown, but it does raise
concern.
MR. KREINHEDER added that the fourth concern is one of the most
serious problems. It is that appropriating $1.4 billion from the
budget reserve may put Alaska in a cash flow deficit situation. In
other words, even though the budget theoretically balances for FY
96 or FY 97, since so much of the state's money goes out in July of
the fiscal year in all the various grants and construction monies,
etc., if the balance of the budget reserve is brought down below a
certain point, the state may actually run out of cash.
MR. KREINHEDER said in such a case, the legislature will start
hearing from a lot of state employees who are not getting their
paychecks, among other things.
Number 1088
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said there was $14 billion in the state savings
account, and asked why the OMB was worried about the bond rating.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked, "What bonds?"
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked what the balance was in the budget reserve.
MR. KREINHEDER said the balance at the end of this year, short of
an appropriation such as this, would be about $1.6 billion.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY thinks it is important for people to know that this
is a two year, forward funding budget for the schools. Certainly,
this can be made a one-year appropriation, and then the legislature
can take the chance that oil prices go down. In that case, the
funding would even be less next year. People should realize that.
Number 1130
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG is concerned about the reasons Mr.
Kreinheder stated. He said he either does not understand them or
does not find them troublesome at all. He is particularly not
concerned about the last item. As was just mentioned, this is
forward funding. In terms of cash flow, it can either be funded
today or funded 12 months from now. Representative Rokeberg asked
what the difference was.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the idea here is to provide the school
districts with some additional funding because, if he is not
mistaken, the schools will receive the interest on that money for
the following fiscal year. Therefore, there would be a cash flow
increase to the district, not to the budget reserve fund.
Representative Rokeberg said he did not understand Mr. Kreinheder's
concerns.
MR. KREINHEDER said he would be happy to have a representative of
the Department of Revenue speak to that.
LIZ JOHNSON, Parent, said her children attend Juneau-Douglas High
School (JDHS). She can see that people are talking about public
education, but education continues into adulthood also. She is
alarmed at the intent of HB 230 to control state spending at the
expense of students' education. She strongly requested that the
funding at the very least be maintained at the current IU level of
$61,000.
MS. JOHNSON is aware that over the last few years salaries and
benefits have increased for staff across the state. This is a
problem that must surely be addressed, but not in such a manner
that compromises educational quality.
Number 1210
MS. JOHNSON said a reduction in the foundation formula will
directly hit the average student, who are the majority in the
schools. Many needs of special education students receive support
from federal funds or grants. She speaks for many of the parents
in the high school and locally, and they request that any increase
that might be granted to the education budget or even a portion of
those that are left be directly tied in with restrictions for their
use.
MS. JOHNSON said in this way, qualitative items such as curriculum
development, lower PTRs, etc., are more effectively achieved.
Perhaps instead of talking budgets, and who or what should get how
much, the state should be discussing such issues as tenure laws,
and whether members of the public, as teachers and parents, are
meeting the future needs of the students.
MS. JOHNSON asked about the methods available for evaluating what
is going on in the schools.
Number 1255
MS. JOHNSON continued that it is time to put the delivery of
education at the top of the list. The children as individuals, not
as crowded groups, should come first. In the end, these efforts
will result in a more efficient and effective use for each dollar
left.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said there will be a work session next week on a
bill that would radically revise tenure and some other issues. Co-
Chair Bunde said Ms. Johnson hit a very important point. The
largest state expenditure is education, and somewhere between 82
percent and 87 percent of that goes to salary and benefits. It
does not end up in the classroom. The bill will call for a lower
PTR.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said the bill to which Co-Chair Bunde was referring
was HB 217.
Number 1295
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said Ms. Johnson hit an interesting point
about how the state should be treating its children as individuals
and not as crowded groups. However, then she related back to the
need to repeal tenure laws. Representative Brice believes the
repeal of tenure laws may result in the increase of the PTRs
because many teachers have been cut. This may be done to a point
where the state may be simply warehousing children.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said that is a concern tenure helps to
address. It does provide some protection to teachers in that area.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE announced that the working group on HB 217 would be
on March 29 at 3 p.m.
Number 1345
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON noticed that Co-Chair Toohey is putting the
public school finance program out. Maybe after everyone else has
testified, Duane Guiley, Director of School Finance, Department of
Education, could come forward and compare Alaska with the Lower 48.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said she got that information from Mr. Guiley.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said it would still be helpful if he would
come forward and go through those figures.
Number 1375
CATHERINE FRITZ, Parent, said she has three children. Two of them
are in the public school system and one is, very intentionally, in
a private school this year. She said people have alluded to the
fact that we are all trying to do more with less. Teachers work
long hours, and they somehow manage to be gym teachers and
librarians. Students work hard, both a school and at home.
Parents are also working very hard.
MS. FRITZ said personally, she has been very involved with bringing
a private program, formerly a private education curriculum, into
the public Juneau School District. This has been done very
successfully this year. Part of the reason the program was able to
be started is because 17 children were brought from the private
sector to the public schools. This allowed an instructional unit
to come into the public school system.
MS. FRITZ said she is concerned that if the legislature starts
cutting away at the already existing funding, the opportunity for
bringing in alternative programs to provide choices to parents is
going to be even more reduced and more difficult than it is now.
Number 1428
MS. FRITZ said in order to even keep this program going this year,
the parents and the 27 children in the classroom have raised over
$11,000. Ms. Fritz personally gave a portion of her dividend check
to Harborview school to be able to make this program work. There
are many, many people who are doing that.
MS. FRITZ thinks decreasing funding is going to make the situation
worse in the long run. The state is at the point where many people
are barely hanging in there with public schools. If the classrooms
are made larger, the choices diminished, if more problems are given
to a teacher in a classroom day, teachers are going to say they
have had enough and leave.
MS. FRITZ said she is fortunate enough to afford options. However,
many people cannot. The state cannot get down to serving the basic
education needed for Alaska's children if funding is continually
diminished. She asked HESS Committee members to at least let the
schools keep the status quo funding.
MS. FRITZ said ideally, the schools need more money. She asked
that funding be constantly addressed, that options be kept open so
parents want their children in public schools.
Number 1475
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said Ms. Fritz hit an important point, that the
funding does provide options. Some want those options and some do
not.
SALLY RUE, Parent, said she has two children and she has been an
involved parent ever since they started school in Anchorage. Since
then, they have moved to Juneau. The quality of her children's
education means more to her than keeping her permanent fund
dividend high, or not paying income taxes, or not paying school
tax. As a parent, she would be happy to pay those things because
education is important for Alaska's children.
MS. RUE said each child only goes through each grade one time. If
the education is not right, you cannot go back and do it over
again.
MS. RUE also served on the Juneau Board of Education. She would
like to present some information for the consideration of the HESS
Committee members. She understands it is difficult, and
legislators may feel they keep putting more money into education.
From the view of the Board of Education, the district already feels
like it has been tightening its belt for years.
MS. RUE explained that over the last eight years, inflation has
been around 24 percent. There has been a 1.6 percent increase in
the foundation formula. That means for years, the Juneau School
District has had to chip away at programs. It has gotten to the
point where non-personnel costs are down to 8 percent of the
budget.
MS. RUE said everything that could be cut, has been cut. Last
year, the district was forced to make a $2.5 million cut. This was
out of what maintenance funding would be. The only way the
district could come up with that amount of money, out of a $35
million budget, was to cut all nontenured teachers. This district
has worked very hard to keep class size low. Last year, the
district was forced to lay off all nontenured teachers because
there was no way to deal with that kind of cut.
Number 1576
MS. RUE said the district is looking at a $1.2 million cut this
year, just to be able to balance the budget. This is on top of all
the other cuts. That is also taking even funding into
consideration--the funding that the Governor proposed. HB 230
would mean that the district would lose yet another $500,000 in
state funding, plus lose $109,000 in local funding.
MS. RUE said many things can be said about Juneau, but Juneau pays
its fair share in education. This year, 36 percent of the
district's budget comes from local funding. As the district is
proposing a budget for next year, the local contribution will
increase to 38 percent. Juneau is at the cap. If basic need is
cut, it will take away the ability of the Juneau community to
support education. HESS Committee members heard testimony that
shows people are very supportive of education, and they are willing
to help pay for it.
Number 1622
MS. RUE thought that was the direction the state is trying to go.
HB 230 means going backwards for Juneau in terms of local support.
Some of the results of cutting the nontenured teachers last year
was larger class sizes this year. This is tough on teachers, it is
tough on children and parents also. The district is trying to deal
with this in a number of ways. The district is looking at some
very creative solutions. However, it cannot be expected that a
service be provided when the funding goes down every year in real
dollars. This is what is happening because of inflation.
Number 1645
MS. RUE said that offerings at the high school had to be cut.
Nurses, counselors and librarians had to be cut mostly back to
half-time. Children need medicine, and receptionists and
secretaries in the school offices are dispensing serious
medications to students. They feel very uncomfortable about that.
MS. RUE thinks the hardest thing is that the district is trying
very hard to improve education, not just keep it status quo. When
class sizes are going up, it is very difficult to ask teachers to
perform more hands-on learning. Everyone knows kids learn better
when they are doing things. There has been a lot of research to
this effect. This is better than the old model of a teacher
standing at the front of a classroom.
MS. RUE said however, they have larger class sizes and less money,
and that makes it harder to do those things. It is harder when
there are less materials. When there is a lower nonpersonnel
budget there are less materials for kids in a class and it is
harder for teachers to do innovative things. That is one of the
biggest binds. Ms. Rue invited all the HESS Committee members out
to the Juneau schools to see the good things that are going on.
Number 1700
MS. RUE said the Juneau district is trying very hard to do a better
job in a lot of different ways. However, it is harder and harder
with higher class sizes. She urged HESS Committee members to
please keep the funding level.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said that people are talking about HB 215
regarding tenured teachers. Some people feel a bill such as this
will solve the problem, and that Alaska can continue with this
bill, maintain funding at the same level, not put any increase in
PTRs, and just deal with the tenured teacher problem and that will
solve the problem. Representative Robinson sought Ms. Rue's
opinion on this, and if she thought it would help the Juneau school
district.
Number 1742
MS. RUE said she thought a bill concerning tenured teachers would
not solve Juneau's problem because Juneau's problem lies in the
fact that it does not have enough teachers in the classroom.
MS. RUE said the Juneau district is looking at all sorts of ways to
contain costs. As everyone is aware, the district is in the middle
of negotiating contracts. The district is looking at all sorts of
significant ways to keep providing quality education.
MS. RUE thought, however, that one of the things a tenure-related
bill would do would be to give the district some flexibility. It
is not going to help to get rid of many teachers. However, what
might help is to have more flexibility so the district can make
priorities and hire the teachers needed to teach certain subjects,
and to provide the programs necessary.
MS. RUE felt it was not a good thing to have a teacher who has
tenure shunted off teaching something they are not prepared to
teach and do not want to teach. It is not good for them, and it is
not good for children. Ms. Rue said therefore, tenure issues are
not entirely the solution here.
Number 1767
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he does not share the notion that getting rid
of tenure will solve the problems in teaching. He is concerned
that school boards will simply fire expensive teachers, and budget
problems in those districts would be solved in that manner.
However, that is a discussion that will take place this week.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON thought there is sometimes an assumption
that the whole problem lies with tenured teachers instead of the
fact that there is not enough funding. She is not saying that
people sitting in the meeting felt that way, but sometimes there is
a public perception to that effect.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the problem lies with that 80-90 percent of
revenue goes to salaries and benefits. It is a very challenging
issue.
Number 1800
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said if a district could hire 10 teachers for a
certain sum of money, or 20 teachers for that same sum, the
district would certainly hire 20. That is where everyone's hands
are tied. There is no way to reasonably balance the money problem.
That is where the changes must be made.
MS. RUE said last year the district instituted a local retirement
incentive program. Because of this program, the district was able
to hire about eight more lower cost teachers.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked for the starting salary of a Juneau
school teacher.
MS. RUE believed it is between $31,000 and $32,000. It is right in
the middle of the state range. This amount includes benefits.
Number 1849
CLAUDIA DOUGLAS, President, National Education Association (NEA) -
Alaska, said her organization is opposed to HB 230. NEA Alaska has
attempted to present the case for funding of Alaska's public
schools. Preparation of children for the challenges of the coming
century is critical to the economic development of Alaska. The
jobs of the future will demand that Alaska's people develop special
technical and academic skills to master new challenges. Schools ar
attempting to teach those skills today.
MS. DOUGLAS said both parents and school employees recognize the
problems concerning children in 1995, and they do not compare to
the problems we experienced as children. The school of 1995 has a
totally different set of challenges than the schools of 1975, 1965,
or 1955. The reality is that the pressures and the expectations
demanded of our public schools for the most part go unfunded.
Number 1883
MS. DOUGLAS had some prepared remarks, but she wanted to go on
record with only a few of them. For the ten-year period between
1983 and 1993, school enrollment in Alaska grew by more than 25,000
students. This is slightly less than 26 percent. Alaska has
historically ranked in the top ten states nationally in the
percentage of increase in student enrollment from one year to the
next.
MS. DOUGLAS said in 1983 Alaska ranked eighth nationally, and in
1993, Alaska ranked fourth in the percent change in public
enrollment from the previous year. From 1984-1993, public schools
in Alaska employed 762 new teachers to accommodate the growth and
to address new instructional priorities such as special education,
alternative programs and so forth. Even though districts hired
more full-time equivalent of teachers, the PTR increased from 15.2
percent in 1983 to 17.1 percent in 1993. During that period,
teachers had more children while at the same time they implemented
new programs to address the needs of the changing student
population.
MS. DOUGLAS said teachers and staff were doing more with
diminishing state support. At the same time, the Administration
and the legislature sent ominous messages about the health and
welfare of public education. Since 1986, public education has
suffered severe financial setbacks. Correlated with the drop in
oil prices, state support for public education was severely cut
back.
MS. DOUGLAS said between 1985-86 and 1986-87 school years, the
level of state support dropped by 15 percent. During Alaska's
first year as a state, the appropriation for supporting public
education was 44 percent of the total operating budget.
Number 1953
MS. DOUGLAS continued that ten years later, in 1970-71, that level
of support had dropped to 35 percent. During the year of 1990-91,
the total share for K-12 education was 17 percent of the operating
budget. Even when local financial commitments are taken into
consideration, the total Alaska level of funding for public
education is poor. Again, this has not always been the case.
During its first decade as a state, 30 to 38 percent of all the
state and local operating expenditures went into public education.
MS. DOUGLAS added that during the 1987-88 year, when the new
funding formula was put into place, the IU value was at $60,000.
This level, in itself was 8 percent lower than the rate of the
state's support from the previous school year. The unit has been
adjusted only one time.
MS. DOUGLAS commented that children have not been the only ones to
pay a price for inadequate funding.
Number 1988
MS. DOUGLAS felt it was a misconception that Alaska's teachers have
continued to get these great increases in salary. School
employees, through cuts and freezes in compensations and benefits,
have subsidized the cost of public education in many places. From
1983 to 1993, the national average for salaries increased by 62.9
percent. In comparison, the average salary for Alaska's teachers
increased by 23.2 percent.
MS. DOUGLAS said from 1992 to 1993, the percent change in the
average salary for public school teachers was 1.2 percent. In
comparison to what the total population has done, from 1982 to 1992
the percent of change in Alaska's per capita personal income was 30
percent. Again, this is compared to teacher's salaries going up 23
percent.
Number 2020
MS. DOUGLAS made one final comment. The NEA urges the HESS
Committee members to not cut the funding level for students that
are currently in the schools and for students that are coming into
the system. There is a going to be a large increase in enrollment
in Alaska in the next ten years.
MS. DOUGLAS said there has been wonderful testimony from parents
and people from all over Alaska. She urged HESS Committee members
to reconsider HB 230. Ms. Douglas said she would be providing a
copy of the position paper for HESS Committee members.
Number 2047
DUANE GUILEY, Director of School Finance, Department of Education
(DOE), said the current Administration supports full and early
funding for education. It recognizes the legislature is trying to
deal with this funding issue early, and that is appreciated.
However, HB 230 does fall short of making revenue available for
growth in student population.
MR. GUILEY said it has been currently estimated that in 1996 the
need for full funding of the foundation formula will increase
anywhere from $14 to $16 million. For FY 97, it may be as high as
$23 to $24 million. Under current statute, this bill would require
the Administration to prorate the IU value to schools throughout
the state. This would be done after the DOE first gives credit for
the increased student enrollment at those districts that are
growing. Then the DOE would prorate the unit value to all
districts. The estimated unit value of proration for FY 96 will be
in the neighborhood of $59,000, and it will be down to $58,000 in
FY 97.
Number 2087
MR. GUILEY said the current Administration and the Governor have
asked support for full and early funding for education. While
Alaska used to enjoy the position statistically of having the
highest adjusted expenditure per student in the nation. In fact,
for the six years that ended 1988, Alaska was the highest in the
nation. Alaska no longer enjoys that position. The level of
spending per child in Alaska has decreased over the last four years
with the lowest level of spending being the most recent year of
1992.
MR. GUILEY said therefore, the trend for spending on education in
Alaska has been declining on an adjusted basis. Again, Mr. Guiley
asked HESS Committee members to support full funding for education
including an increment for student growth.
Number 2115
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY had asked her secretary to call Mr. Guiley to get
the running total. The chart handed out to HESS Committee members
is what was given to the secretary. Unfortunately, it is not up-
to-date and Co-Chair Toohey apologized for handing it out.
MR. GUILEY clarified that the chart in the handout is unadjusted
expenditures. This is raw dollars that do not account for the
effects of geographic differentials in spending. The chart is an
accurate statement that in raw dollars for FY 90-91, Alaska
expended approximately $9,057 per student. On an adjusted basis,
using an area cost differential, most recently they are using
approximately 1.30 for Alaska as compared to the national average.
On an adjusted basis, Alaska has dropped below many other states.
Currently, New York is spending the most per student on an adjusted
basis.
MR. GUILEY said therefore, there are two different comparisons.
The chart shows raw, unadjusted dollars.
Number 2157
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked where Alaska stands under raw dollars
in 1995.
MR. GUILEY answered that using raw dollars, the statewide average
expenditure now is somewhere below $8,000 per student.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked where Mr. Guiley thought Alaska would
stand within the nation.
MR. GUILEY said the most recent data he has available on a national
basis is for the period ending 1992. On an adjusted scale
(adjusted based on area cost differentials) the national average is
$5,452. Alaska was $6,298. Therefore, Alaska was still $800 above
the national average. That compares to the time period of 1982-83,
when the national average was in fact $4,178 on an adjusted basis.
Alaska was spending $7,286, or almost $3,000 above the national
average. Therefore, Alaska's position has declined significantly
over the last ten years in relation to the nation.
Number 2197
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Guiley where the area cost
differentials come from. He asked who makes these calculations.
MR. GUILEY said the numbers he was quoting are from a recent report
that was published by the education commission on the state
entitled, "How much are schools spending." Mr. Guiley offered to
make copies of that document for HESS Committee members.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if the commission and their
consultants made that calculation as far as creating the integers
for the Adjusted Cost Differential (ACD).
MR. GUILEY said the state cost of living indexes were based upon a
survey analysis of salary trends in 1990 published by a F. Howard
Nelson in July 1990. Again Mr. Guiley offered to make copies for
HESS Committee members.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG confirmed that the numbers are created in-
house.
Number 2224
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked what the impacts will be on property
taxpayers if school districts are funded at FY 95 levels. His
concern is that if school districts pick up the slack, are they
going to have the room necessary to find other funds, and if they
are, where are those funds coming from?
TAPE 95-23, SIDE A
Number 000
MR. GUILEY said under current statute, organized school districts
such as city and borough school districts, are allowed to
contribute an amount of local contribution in excess of basic need
equal to 23 percent of adjusted basic need. Therefore, if HB 230
is to pass and the unit value were to be prorated, the local
contribution limit would also be prorated downward.
MR. GUILEY recalled previous testimony that said in Juneau, the
district would absorb a reduction in state aid of a certain amount,
and the district would also absorb a reduction in local aid because
they are currently contributing at the maximum they can. Other
districts in a similar situation would be Kenai and Ketchikan.
MR. GUILEY said some other districts may also be affected. The DOE
is in the process of making a calculation of that now, and he will
present that to the committee with copies of Mr. Guiley's report so
he can give HESS Committee members the actual numbers district by
district.
Number 075
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that is part of a challenge this legislature
will face, which is addressing that cap. There was an earlier
briefing about the disparity funding and how the federal government
ties the hands of the state. As Mr. Guiley pointed out, some
districts are up to the cap, and those districts would be severely
affected. Those districts may be very frustrated because they are
willing to do more and the law does not allow them to do more.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said there are many others who are not near the cap
and there are those who contribute zero. That is also a
frustration for the legislators.
Number 124
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE followed up on the previous comments to ask
about increases in the foundation formula and the function of
disparity test. He asked Mr. Guiley to clarify whether the 25
percent disparity between the districts is going to have a large
effect on the school districts, and will it jeopardize the state?
MR. GUILEY said the 25 percent disparity calculation is a measure
of relative wealth based on the adjusted unit value comparing the
most expensive unit value to the least costly unit value in the
state. The DOE is able to eliminate the top and bottom 5 percent,
and the comparison is made on the 90 percent remaining. The
difference between the least expensive compared to the most
expensive of that 90 percent cannot exceed 25 percent. That is
controlled by federal law.
MR. GUILEY said that relates the local contribution cap of 23
percent, but it does not track exactly the same. That has been
changed recently, however, in the federal government.
Number 219
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said there are some districts that are growing
faster than others. Because of that growth and the fact that the
state will be funding them at the same level in FY 96 as in FY 95,
he would assume those districts are going to experience a decrease
in unit funding.
MR. GUILEY had stated earlier that the DOE first adjusts
entitlement based upon actual enrollment. Therefore, districts
that are experiencing a growth will actually get credit for that
increased growth. Then, the DOE prorates all districts equally.
As an example, in an extreme case, Mat-Su Borough School District
is projecting that their state aid will grow by approximately $4.3
million from 1995 to 1996.
Number 283
MR. GUILEY said therefore, their actual prorated entitlement will
increase $3 million in FY 96 over 95. They will be down $1.2
million from their full entitlement. They will then have to absorb
this large growth of students with less money than they would have
under a full entitlement situation.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said therefore, for Mat-Su it would be a $4.2
million reduction.
MR. GUILEY said that can be argued.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said discussion of the cap is another challenge that
can be faced on another day.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked Mr. Guiley if he had an estimate of how
much revenue a $100 school tax would generate.
MR. GUILEY said he has that in his office from a year or two ago,
but he does not have that information with him today.
Number 350
CO-CHAIR BUNDE observed that it was not a significant amount of
money, and the state faces the challenge that it cannot have
designated revenues. Co-Chair Bunde feels that $100 is too low to
make a significant difference.
JOHN HOLST, Superintendent, Sitka School District, gave HESS
Committee members a petition brought to Juneau by Becky Richards.
The petition was signed by parents in Sitka. He said the
overwhelming testimony opposing HB 230 has been very encouraging to
him. He asked HESS Committee members to listen to what they are
hearing. People, especially in Juneau and Sitka and places where
the cap is affecting them, are up against the wall.
MR. HOLST said what HB 230 is asking them to do is not just take
the cut but to also take the cut the cap will put on top of that.
Therefore, the legislators should add 23 percent to any cut being
made. That is what the impact is going to be.
MR. HOLST asked to be given some solutions for this problem. Mr.
Holst thinks the solution lies in the statement earlier made by
Bruce Bachen. Forty-five states in this country spend a larger
percentage of their budget on education. Mr. Holst stressed that
number, and the fact that puts Alaska almost dead last.
Number 467
MR. HOLST said the answer to this is, get the funding of education
to the right percentage of the total budget. That means the
funding should be increasing. Everyone in the meeting today begged
HESS Committee members to just decrease funding by 3 percent this
year, and fund the $61,000 unit. Because that is, in essence,
what legislators are doing if 3 percent is the cost of living and
cost of doing business has gone up every year.
MR. HOLST continued that every year, district representatives keep
coming back to the legislature and everyone keeps talking about
holding education harmless and giving the schools $61,000. But the
legislature gives education a 3 percent cut every time it does
that.
MR. HOLST said those testifying are begging the HESS Committee
members to give education a 3 percent cut. Not six or seven, or
cumulative eight or nine or ten over the next several years. It is
going to be a disaster in the schools across the state.
Number 528
CO-CHAIR BUNDE observed that Alaska is statistically lower in terms
of its educational funding as part of the state funding. However,
he has heard from people every day who tell him that the Alaska
state spending is three times higher than that of the nearest state
per capita. Statistics are wonderful things depending on what they
tell.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said according to the chart handed out,
Alaska is ranked number four or five in the nation in percentage of
budget contribution. Therefore, he thinks the last statistic is at
odds with the chart.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked that statistics not be argued about.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON pointed out that the chart was from 1991.
Number 580
KATE YOUNG, Parent, said she has three daughters. She is very
involved in her children's education. She knows what they are
learning and if they are meeting their goals. She is not,
therefore, testifying so much on their behalf. She is testifying
for the children she sees in schools when she volunteers. These
children do not have parents who are involved in education.
MS. YOUNG thinks it is so important that the message be sent to
Alaska's children that education is a priority. Ms. Young said
that those testifying previously had said many good things.
However, up above the capitol building, in Capitol School, there
are 27 children to a kindergarten class. That is probably as many
people that were present at the hearing at that time.
MS. YOUNG asked HESS Committee members to imagine being one
teacher, trying to teach all those children. She has volunteered
there, and she has seen many extremes. Some children go into
school and they have basic skills and knowledge that they have been
introduced to prior to school. There are other children, however,
that have never even seen the A B Cs. There is a broad spectrum of
levels that teachers are expected to deal with. Ms. Young said the
knowledge base levels out in the subsequent grades for the most
part, but in kindergarten there is a large disparity in knowledge.
MS. YOUNG encouraged HESS Committee members to visit Capitol School
and observe what a good job the teachers are doing with what they
have. However, the people that are going to lose out are those
children whose families are living in cars or who live in a small
space with numerous family members. These children do not have a
place to do their homework.
Number 724
MS. YOUNG said that for some children, school is the only place
they get a lunch. In Juneau they do not get a hot lunch, but they
get a lunch. If cuts are made, it will be like taking the rug out
from underneath those children. Ms. Young stressed that current
funding is needed. With the increase in enrollment, even more
funding is necessary. Alternatives must be studied.
Number 755
MS. YOUNG said she has a second-grader and a fourth-grader. Both
those children love school. Ms. Young also has a 16-year-old who
has dropped out of school. Ms. Young said her daughter cannot
stand 40 people in an algebra class. She cannot learn anything.
MS. YOUNG said that is why she is here. She volunteers in the
schools. She is helping children who don't have parents who are
active in their education. It is really important that education
be kept as a priority.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE assured Ms. Young that he has been there. His wife
teaches kindergarten, and he volunteers when he can. He
understands that disparity. Some children are precocious, and some
are still wetting their pants. Unfortunately, some parents look at
school as daycare.
MS. YOUNG said that Juneau is trying to train parents to work more
with the school system.
Number 850
DON SCHULZ, retired teacher, expressed concern about the overriding
preoccupation with cutting funding instead of raising revenues.
When Mr. Schulz came to Alaska in 1967, there did not exist the
problem in educational funding that Alaska now has. Yet, there
were no oil revenues. However, the people of Alaska supported
education and their schools.
MR. SCHULZ said Alaska has a few things to look forward to should
HB 230 pass. The conditions of the school buildings will get
worse. Subsequently, the maintenance costs will significantly
increase. Already crowded classrooms will get more and more
crowded. Not only will they get more crowded, but they will be
crowded with children that have problems.
MR. SCHULZ said that children with fetal alcohol effects and those
with other learning problems will be in the classrooms. With the
rise of increased teen-age pregnancies and the premature babies
that come with that, one out of four of those children develop into
a pupil with learning difficulties.
MR. SCHULZ said therefore, reduced funding not only adds children
to the classroom, it adds more children with more problems. It is
not one more child. It may be one more child that needs the
equivalent of three or four children in terms of attention.
Number 948
MR. SCHULZ said that additional funds will not make it all better.
But he guaranteed that things will get worse with less money
available for education. They will get worse in a state that was
once a state of great opportunity. Alaska was a pioneer state, and
a leader. Mr. Schulz asked, what kind of educational system do we
want, and what will be the future for Alaska's young people.
Number 985
DON FANCHER, Executive Director, AVCP Housing Authority; former
school board president, Lower Kuskokwim School District; and former
member of the State Board of Education; said Mr. Guiley knows very
well that many schools do not spend their money equally. Mr.
Fancher applauds the desire of Co-Chair Bunde to make spending
priorities equal. Mr. Fancher feels that general fund dollars
should not be used to fly children to ball games if funds are
needed elsewhere.
MR. FANCHER remembered that Auke Bay school has ran out of paper,
and he knows of teachers who buy their own paper. The children in
his school district buy their own paper to help out the school.
Mr. Fancher and his wife also help out at the school. A number of
bathrooms in his school have had to be converted to classrooms due
to space constraints. HESS Committee members know that keeping the
money at the same amount means less money for districts. If there
is no more money, the districts need less costs.
MR. FANCHER said as the maintenance costs go up, so does deferred
maintenance. Those costs are horrendous. The problems are going
to go beyond control, and it puts children at risk. The bill says
it is full funding for two years. Mr. Fancher says the bill is
almost cruel. It may result in the HESS Committee being much more
loaded with the needs of the Division of Family and Youth Services.
Number 1130
MR. FANCHER's region is one of the poorest in the United States.
There has been a lot of opposing testimony to HB 230. He implored
HESS Committee members to heed that testimony. Mr. Fancher thanked
HESS Committee members for studying this issue. The children of
Alaska are held at the top, and they should be kept there because
they deserve it.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony on HB 230.
Number 1181
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said in Sections 1 and 2, under "Additional
District Support," in both areas which is line 8, page 2 in Section
1 and line 24, page 3 in Section 2, the FY 96 numbers are given
from the Governor's DOE budget versus the FY 95 numbers.
Representative Brice brought this up because the FY 96 numbers are
lower than the FY 95 numbers. Representative Brice wanted to know
if that was done on purpose or was that an oversight by the
drafters of the bill.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said it was not an oversight. FY 96 numbers were
chosen because that was the last level of state funding.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the last amount FY 95 authorized was $3.6
million. In FY 96, the Governor's recommendation was roughly $3.2
million. Therefore, the last amount authorized would have been
$3.6 million.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he would check on that fact. He asked for a
five minute at-ease. The time was 3:55 p.m.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting back to order at 4:01 p.m.
MR. GUILEY was asked to address Representative Brice's question.
He said the difference between the two numbers is a one-time
appropriation that was approved by the legislature last year for
Sitka due to the closing of the mill in that community. That was
a one-time appropriation that was included in the supplemental
bill. That is the difference of the $447,000.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked if it is FY 95, and felt if the HESS
Committee members are going to run along the line of FY 95
appropriations it would be appropriate to keep that amount in,
considering the fact that Representative Brice is sure there are
other school districts that might be willing to use that money to
buy the construction paper and other supplies that are lacking in
schools. Representative Brice said it might have been a one-time
appropriation for Sitka last year, but that money can be just as
easily dispersed throughout the state this year. That amount then
would truly reflect the FY 95 amount for schools from the DOE.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked if that money could be used, and if the
DOE would not be limited to put that other $447,000 back into
Sitka.
Number 1361
MR. GUILEY said that is correct. The DOE would not be obligated to
give that money to Sitka. The additional district support is
further allocated in Section B of the bill to named recipients. If
it is not further allocated, the DOE would not be able to use it
unless it were revised to another line item within the
appropriation.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said in other words, to make that work, each one of
those figures would have to be adjusted.
MR. GUILEY added that another option would be to move that amount
to another line item, such as to the foundation program.
Number 1393
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked the Chair's intention. He asked if the
HESS Committee was going to adjourn and take up the bill later.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE announced that the bill was going to be voted on
today.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that if that was the case, he would like
to make an amendment to HB 230. Representative Brice had the
numbers for the bill, but said there was going to have to be some
working of the numbers and the wording. He said the amendment
could be discussed orally.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said his amendment was conceptual because it
was going to require some adjusting. He moved conceptual amendment
number one.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY objected to the movement.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said that on page 1, line 7, the words,
"budget reserve fund (art. IX, sec. 17, Constitution of the State
of Alaska)" would be struck and replaced with "general fund." The
numbers, Representative Brice believed, were what was wanted. He
then wanted Section 2 and Section 3 deleted. He asked that Section
4 be renumbered as Section 2, and that Section 5 be deleted.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said in other words, all he is doing is taking
the bill out of the budget reserve fund and fully funding for FY
96.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that amendment changed the bill 180 degrees.
He asked if the HESS Committee members understood the amendment.
Co-Chair Bunde noted that the major change was using general funds
rather than the constitutional budget reserve. There would be
impacts from this.
A roll call vote was taken. Voting "yes" on the amendment were
Representative Robinson and Representative Brice. Voting "no" were
Co-Chair Bunde, Co-Chair Toohey, and Representatives Rokeberg and
Davis. Representative Vezey was not present for the vote. The
amendment failed to pass.
Number 1555
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON had a question but she was not sure that
any other committee members could respond. In the press release
put out by the majority, it says a five-year plan for education is
being proposed. This bill only takes care of the first and second
years. Representative Robinson wanted to know what the plan was
for the third, fourth and fifth years.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE attempted to respond, and he asked Representative
Robinson to realize that this was his perception and he was not
necessarily speaking for the majority. He thought they said from
a five-year spending plan for state spending, a portion of that was
the two-year forward funding of education at a certain dollar
amount. Co-Chair Bunde did not think the majority spoke to a five-
year plan for education.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON noted that the press release reads of a
five-year budget plan.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said they may be referring to a five-year budget
plan for state spending, and education was only addressed for two
years.
Number 1599
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked if it was the opinion of the HESS
Committee members that the press release on education was only
supposed to be looked at for two years.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that the plan in HB 230 only addresses
education for two years.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said at this point, therefore, the HESS
Committee members have no idea, if HB 230 is passed, what the plan
will be for the following three years.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that one legislature cannot bind the next. It
would be his hope that money will be available to rewrite the
foundation formula, make it equal and increase its significance.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said her hope is with Co-Chair Bunde.
Number 1637
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked to propose one last conceptual amendment
considering the fact that HB 230 funds education at FY 95 levels.
Representative Brice thought it would be appropriate that the
additional district support also reflect the FY 95 authorized
level. He also requested that the $447,060 dollars that are the
difference between the FY 96 level in the bill and the FY 95 level
which was passed last year be evenly distributed among the single
sites.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if he meant the single-sites or the sites
listed.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said he meant the sites listed. He said that
the amendment should take place in both Sections 1 and 2.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked to summarize the conceptual amendment, called
amendment number two. Representative Brice was basically
increasing funding $447,000.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said that the amendment would place amounts
back to the FY 95 level of authorized education funding throughout
the whole bill, versus whenever it is felt it is appropriate.
Number 1704
CO-CHAIR BUNDE understood what the vehicle is, but asked for the
bottom line.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said it was $447,060. He moved the amendment,
and there was an objection.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked for discussion of the amendment.
Number 1720
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said if education funding was going to be held
at FY 95 authorized levels, it is important that it be done in all
categories, including additional district support. To say that the
legislature is going to cut additional district support by half a
million dollars because that is a figure that Governor Knowles came
up with that was lower than the FY 95 level is inappropriate.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE felt that if the bill is going to call for FY
95 funding straight through and hold funding constant for the next
two years, that should be done at all levels of education funding.
That includes additional district support. He asked that the
committee remain consistent in the philosophy of funding at FY 95
levels.
A roll call vote was taken. Voting "no" were Representatives
Rokeberg, Toohey, Bunde and Davis. Voting "yes" were
Representatives Brice and Robinson. Representative Vezey was
absent for the vote. Co-Chair Bunde noted that he voted "no"
reluctantly.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked for further discussion of HB 230. There was
none, so he asked for the wishes of the committee.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE interjected that it should be held over.
Number 1815
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG noted that he has met with a few of his
constituents who were observing the proceedings of this afternoon.
His constituents encouraged him to follow his heart and the
reaction of about 3,000 constituents in his district. That is what
he is going to do when he votes on HB 230.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said that considering his constituents do not
like to have their property taxes go up because of unfunded state
mandates, his vote will reflect their wishes as well.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said one of the testifiers, a retired school
teacher (Mr. Schulz), made an interesting comment about the 1960s.
This is when Representative Davis was in school. It was indicated
that the people supported education, and there did not seem to be
a large question concerning support. There has been some pretty
radical demands over the last number of years to cut the budget.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS felt there were statistics that show where the
budget has been cut over the last couple years from the 25 percent
general fund that is not encumbered by entitlements or formula
programs. The public sentiment may be different. Representative
Davis has heard it as different. If anything is going to clear the
air as to where the public stands on education funding, this bill
will do that. If there is any benefit from HB 230, it will be to
discover where the public stands on education funding.
Number 1888
CO-CHAIR BUNDE felt Representative Davis was correct. Legislators
have been asked, at least for the three years Co-Chair Bunde has
served, to cut state spending. He feels legislators will be
continually asked to do that until the public feels it has been cut
far enough.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said this was her first term. However, she
has been around for a long time, and she feels that cuts have been
made to the bone. She knows that her office has received, even on
the hold harmless bill, more Personal Opinion Messages (POMs) than
on anything else before, that said the public did not even want the
legislature to cut the permanent fund dividends away from the poor.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON's office is beginning to get POMs that say
not to cut education. Representative Robinson felt the bill was a
bad thing, and education can be cut but the results will pop up
elsewhere. When Alaska's children basically don't get a good
education, and dropout rates continue, and as youth crime
increases, those dollars are simply going to be transferred. The
state is going to have to pick these kids up once they are put in
jail. That is the wrong direction. Any study will show that money
placed even into head start programs and education will result in
a better outcome at the end of the continuum.
Number 1946
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON stressed that however the issue is looked
at, the state is going to pay for it in the end. She would just as
soon pay for it now on education to make sure that Alaska's
children get the appropriate education. Representative Robinson
noted that her constituents did not mind taxing themselves, and
they did also not mind paying an income tax.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that a motion was made to move the bill from
committee, and he would like to make a statement. Co-Chair Bunde
did not agree, to some extent, with what Representative Robinson
said because that is somewhat like blackmail. A child says, either
you give me more money in the form of the programs I want in school
or I will turn to crime. There may be some children that do that.
However, that denies ambition and personal responsibility that the
state has every right to expect of its children.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said a good many people he has talked to are not
threatened by blackmail.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE noted that in reference to the permanent fund
dividend (PFD) hold harmless, his POMs say just the reverse. His
POMs say, "Don't you dare take any of my PFD," and give it to those
they consider undeserving. That is a value judgement, but Co-Chair
Bunde wanted Representative Robinson to know that it is out there.
Number 2002
CO-CHAIR BUNDE felt this was the most difficult vote he has taken
during his short time as a legislator. He is an educator, and he
still thinks he is, except now he cannot keep the grade book. He
is not married to his PFD. When he first came to Alaska, people
paid income taxes and he did not think it was onerous at that time.
He still felt Alaska was a good place to live.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE added that many people testified who said they
wanted to convince HESS Committee members about education.
However, they are "preaching to the choir." Those testifying do
not need to convince Co-Chair Bunde and other members of the
committee about the importance of education. They need to convince
the general public. It is still a democracy and majority rules.
The overwhelming requests that he gets are to cut state spending
and not hold education harmless.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE does not think this is the right way to go, and it
is difficult for him to do. But his job is to do what the majority
of the folks in his district ask him to do.
Number 2050
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said HESS Committee members have been asked to
exhibit leadership. One way to exhibit leadership is to do it "my
way" and forget about the public. That might be fine for a cause
like education. However, once Co-Chair Bunde begins down that
slippery slope, many other people will ask for the same right, with
less than good results. If the general public is not listened to,
and the legislators do not have their confidence and support in
both government in general and in the education system
specifically, it will come back to haunt everyone. The public will
be far more Draconian in their demands for revenge if nothing else.
Number 2084
CO-CHAIR BUNDE continued that people are frustrated. It is not the
schools' fault. People see the mall rats, the gangs, the drive-by
shootings, and the semi-literate children. Co-Chair Bunde is very
frustrated too because he thinks there is a great deal of parental
responsibility that has not been addressed. The schools cannot fix
everyone. Children spend 6 hours per day in school, and they spend
18 hours a day hopefully with their parents. Where does the
greater responsibility lie?
CO-CHAIR BUNDE also noted that in the average American household,
the TV is on 8 to 12 hours a day. Co-Chair Bunde asked again where
responsibility lies, and why some people feel they are not getting
their money's worth. Co-Chair Bunde does not feel he has a choice
in his vote, and he wishes he had. He thanked everyone who
testified.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE stressed that legislators are not the enemy. They
are doing a job that, for many, is distasteful. However, it is
necessary to do. They have seen their duty and they will do their
duty.
A roll call vote was taken. Voting "no" on the passage of HB 230
were Representatives Robinson and Brice. Voting "yes" were
Representatives Toohey, Bunde, Vezey, Davis and Rokeberg. HB 230
passed from the HESS Committee.
HHES - 03/16/95
HB 125 - JUVENILE CRIMINAL RECORDS TO SCHOOLS
Number 2177
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN presented the sponsor statement for his
bill. He presented his staff member, Melinda Gruening, who would
carry HESS Committee members through the various details. It has
become apparent to Representative Green that there is a breakdown
in the communication of information to Alaska's schools concerning
students who, if they had been adjudicated adults on some crimes,
they would have committed a felony. These students should be known
to educators for the protection of the other students as well as
for their own well-being.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said that knowing the cause of the
adjudication or arrest for such heinous crimes could help the
juvenile through the school system.
MELINDA GRUENING, Administrative Assistant for Representative
Green, asked HESS Committee members to recall that this bill was
discussed along with HB 105. HB 105 was a general disclosure of
juvenile records. Those bills were placed into a subcommittee.
Bill sponsors were awaiting a ruling from Washington, D.C.,
concerning whether either or both bills would affect Title IV (e)
funds, which is social security funding for foster care.
MS. GRUENING said the ruling came back that a general public
disclosure would jeopardize those funds. However, a limited
disclosure to school officials would not. That is why HB 125 is
being again presented to HESS Committee members. A meeting was
held on Monday, March 13 over at the Division of Family and Youth
Services (DFYS). A packet was put together. There were
representatives from the DFYS, DOE, NEA Alaska, Alaska Association
of School Administrators, AASB, the legislature and various
staffers including HESS Committee aide Lynne Smith, the Department
of Law, the Department of Public Safety, State Troopers and the
Court System.
MS. GRUENING said this was a positive step to facilitate
communication to find out from the people representing
administrators, school boards and school officials what information
people feel they need that they are not getting. It became clear
that those representing teachers, school districts and
administrators felt information was not getting to them. They need
to provide a safer school environment.
MS. GRUENING said in addition, those groups feel they need more
information in order to help the juvenile. The desire was also
expressed to make disclosure of this information mandatory as
opposed to discretionary. They want to be able to count on that
information.
TAPE 95-23, SIDE B
Number 000
MS. GRUENING continued that ways were also discussed concerning how
the disclosure could be made easier. The drafters of the bill have
no intent to put more work on an already burdened system. It is
fully recognized that DFYS is understaffed, and they have a very
heavy workload. No one, therefore, is trying to place a larger
workload on them. This was also discussed with the representative
of the State Troopers.
MS. GRUENING said it was a very interesting meeting. The group is
going to meet again next week. Carl Rose of the AASB agreed to do
a quick fax poll. He has contacted all 54 school districts in the
state with a faxed questionnaire. The results have not yet been
tallied.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked for the results when they come in.
Number 082
MS. GRUENING added that Vern Marshall of NEA Alaska also is working
on a fax poll to find out if administrators and school officials
feel they are currently receiving enough information and
disclosure. Conflicting reports are being heard as to whether
disclosure is currently taking place. They are being asked if they
are receiving disclosure currently, and what type of disclosure
information they need.
MS. GRUENING said the disclosure content will probably be the name
of the juvenile, the offense and the date the offense was
committed. This is not intended to be a disclosure of a lot of
records. The re-disclosure is limited in this bill. There is a
section that deals with that. The only additional disclosure
those officials can perform is with teachers and staff. Therefore,
the scope of disclosure is really very limited.
MS. GRUENING said therefore, the results of the polls are being
tallied, and the group will meet again on March 24 to discuss the
results. Undoubtedly, there will be some information that comes up
that will cause some changes to the bill. It is the desire of
Representative Green to move the bill out of the HESS Committee.
His staff, however, will continue to work with the various agency
representatives and the law enforcement officials to continue work
on the bill in the Judiciary Committee.
Number 197
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked that questions or discussion be held in order
to hear more public testimony on the bill. He asked for public
testimony, and there was none. Public testimony was closed.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON thanked Representative Green and Ms.
Gruening for organizing the meeting. That is exactly what she felt
was the right thing to do. When all the agencies can work together
for a common cause to settle conflicting information, it makes it
easier to accomplish tasks. There may be more work to do, but
Representative Robinson wanted to personally thank them for taking
the time to bring all the groups together to make sure the
legislation is going in the right direction.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked if administrators can currently get this
information in one way or another. He asked what the process may
be. He has heard rumors that school administrators can access this
information. He asked if someone from the Department of Health and
Social Services (DHSS) could explain the process.
Number 325
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said there was a partial fix last year which
allowed the information to be made available. The problem is that
the information has not been made available. This legislation
seeks to make disclosure a "shall" instead of a "may." In the
early part of this year there was still a fear that such disclosure
by the DFYS would endanger Title IV funds. This was found to not
be the case.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON clarified that the reason this bill will
not endanger those funds is because the people who will receive
this information have been narrowed. The disclosures will be to
the people who need that information, such as the school district,
and not just to the general public to chastise children.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE was concerned that there might be administrators
who, in their wisdom, might decide that they are not going to tell
the teachers. Co-Chair Bunde asked if Representative Green would
entertain the possibility of expanding the bill to say that
disclosure information will go to school administrators and
affected teachers. He said Representative Green could use whatever
verbiage would make him comfortable.
Number 430
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said he had no problem with that type of
expansion. The concern he has, since he did not put in something
to that affect, would be that the legislature would somehow become
a micro-manager of the school system. He felt they, better than
members of the legislature, would know best who should get the
information. However, if there is not an objection voiced by the
supplier of the information, certainly Representative Green would
hope the information would ultimately get to the classroom teacher
who has the perpetrator in class.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that is exactly his point. Having worked in
the schools, he has experienced a type of person he calls a
"professional apologist." This is the person who always says the
child was in trouble with the law because of some trivial problem,
and he or she does not feel the teacher who works with the child
every day should know pertinent information. The child could be
violent, and the teacher works with the child every day.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that type of administrator feels they do not
want to "brand" the child.
Number 485
CO-CHAIR BUNDE shared an experience he had at the college level.
The people in Public Safety knew about one of Co-Chair Bunde's
students, and they did not provide any information to Co-Chair
Bunde. The student was enrolled in a speech class taught by Co-
Chair Bunde. As part of one of his speeches, he told the class how
he strangled his high school speech teacher to death because the
teacher put too much pressure on him.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE facetiously noted that he could have probably used
that information. He may not have done anything differently, but
he thinks perhaps he would.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said that was a classic example of the need
for disclosure.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE assured Representative Green that he shared his
concern about micro-managing districts. But to be an effective
teacher, a person should know as much about the child as possible
without breaching privacy. A teacher does not need to know about
their religion, but he or she does need to know background. Co-
Chair Bunde thinks it should be guaranteed that the teacher is in
the loop.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE fears that some teachers, even if it is only 10
percent of the time or teachers, will not be included in the
information disclosure.
Number 580
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said it is very clear that the
administration and the teacher associations want this legislation.
She hopes that those groups will therefore take their education
forums and make sure that the appropriate people get that
information. However, she also asked if a letter of intent could
be drafted to state that the drafters encourage a system be set up
that would assist in making sure that the appropriate teacher is
informed.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said unfortunately, letters of intent are often
ignored. He told Representative Green that he would like to move
the bill today, and but he would also like to hold it for a
Committee Substitute. He asked if Representative Green had some
strong concerns about including "classroom teacher" along with
"school administrator" in the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said he would welcome that, and he thinks the
results of the survey will show that is the preponderance.
Classroom teachers should know, but with limitations. Obviously,
there needs to be limitations. The janitor and the part-time aide
do not need to know.
Number 688
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if wording concerning the teacher of the class
that the child attends would be more appropriate. He hates to do
this type of work in the HESS Committee meeting, but he realizes
Representative Green wants to move the bill today. He asked if the
next bill could be heard while wording is created to create a CS
that would make everyone comfortable.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said he would certainly entertain that
suggestion.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE noted that the bill goes next to the Judiciary
Committee, and both he and Representative Green are on that
committee. He asked if that issue could be addressed instead in
the Judiciary Committee.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said that would be fine, and the chair of the
Judiciary Committee is not unfamiliar with comments and
modification requests in that committee.
Number 757
CO-CHAIR BUNDE encouraged Representative Green to simply have a
blank CS.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she does not want to hold the bill up
either, but her preference would be to narrow the disclosure. She
asked that the disclosure be through the principals or
superintendents or whatever. She asked for that to be the policy
in each district, instead of opening the disclosure information up
so widely. In high school, a child may have 15 teachers. Some of
these teachers may need this information, and some do not. That is
her problem with widening the disclosure.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she would have to put a no
recommendation on the bill if it passes from committee because she
does not know what the final outcome is going to be.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON she said she is also still hoping to hear
from the DFYS about their comfort level. Representative Robinson
is still also confused about who will receive information other
than those already allowed for under the existing juvenile waiver
bill. She does not want to pass another law if a law already
exists which does the same things if the regulations are put on the
table.
Number 830
CO-CHAIR BUNDE observed that the juvenile waiver deals with very
serious felonies such as kidnapping, murder, etc. HB 105 deals
with children who have problems but have not yet gone to that
level.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she is not so sure that is true, and
although she could be wrong, she would like to make sure. She was
under the impression that the juvenile waiver only deals with more
serious crimes. But when it came down to being able to give
information out on children, it was allowing for more cases than
just serious crimes. She again stated that she could be wrong, but
it would be nice to hear more information before this bill is moved
forward. She asked if Ms. Gruening had something to say to that
effect, and said it would also be good to hear from the DHSS.
Number 875
MS. GRUENING said the difference between the current status quo and
HB 125 is that this bill deals with offenses that would be felonies
were the juveniles adult. These are very serious offenses such as
homicide, assault, reckless endangerment, kidnapping, sexual
offenses, robbery, extortion, offenses against property, controlled
substance offenses and possession or use of a deadly weapon. Those
are the crimes being spoken of in HB 125.
MS. GRUENING continued that if those juveniles were 16, they would
automatically be waived up. They would be publicly disclosed.
Number 923
CO-CHAIR BUNDE added that it is not an automatic waiver. If the
child proves that he or she is amenable to rehabilitation, they are
not tried as an adult. It is possible to have a youthful murderer
in a classroom that has not been tried as an adult.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked Representative Green to look at page 4,
beginning on line 29. It says, "...shall notify the principal...".
Co-Chair Bunde asked to add "and classroom teacher." He asked if
that would solve the contention.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN saw no problem with that amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if that addition would be asking the
state and municipal law enforcement agency to notify the teacher
also.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE changed the amendment. On page 4, line 29, after
the word "principal", the bill was amended to say, "who will notify
the appropriate classroom teacher."
Number 1014
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON felt that the amendment would have to say
"teachers" because in many situations there would be more than one
teacher.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that "teachers" would be included instead of
"teacher." He then asked for objections to the motion.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON objected because she feels it is better to
just stick with the principals and let them set up the policy.
A roll call vote was taken. Voting "yes" on the amendment were
Representatives Toohey, Bunde, Davis and Rokeberg. Voting "no" was
Representative Robinson. Representative Brice was not present for
the vote.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE announced that now before the HESS Committee was HB
125 as amended.
Number 1068
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked to clarify a point. He asked if the
legal review that was undertaken in Washington, D.C., was
specifically in reference to HB 125, or all four bills that
pertained to disclosure.
MS. GRUENING answered that the decision referred to juvenile
disclosure and what was and was not permissible. It was not
addressing one particular bill. It was a broad statement on
juvenile disclosure and what was allowable under the Title IV funds
and what was not. She has copies of that decision if HESS
Committee members would like to see it.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the reason he asked is he wanted to
make sure the amendment was not tampering with something that had
already been approved by the federal government.
Number 1104
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked if she could ask a question to the
DHSS.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE noted that the amendment is an attempt to address
the sensitivities of the other HESS Committee members. He
therefore wants to add the words "appropriate teachers" rather
than just "teachers."
ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant to the Commissioner, DHSS, made
himself available to answer the questions of HESS Committee
members.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked how the DHSS now feels about the
amended bill, and also if the bill accomplishes anything different
than what is allowed for in existing law. She asked if this bill
means there will be two sets of regulations.
Number 1163
MR. LINDSTROM does not believe that any of the type of disclosures
that have been discussed in the meeting are precluded under the
existing law. The existing law to which he refers is the bill
passed last year, the automatic waiver bill. The disclosure
provisions have nothing to do with the automatic waiver. They
simply made more permissive language that allowed the division to
share their information with other parties, specifically school
districts.
MR. LINDSTROM believes that all the discussion that has gone on in
the HESS Committee room concerning the kinds of information it is
believed should be provided to a school district could be provided
under existing law and regulations that will be developed by the
department.
MR. LINDSTROM said, however, this is clearly different in that
while the existing language is permissive, HB 125 would require the
department to provide information. However, Mr. Lindstrom believes
the CS that is before HESS Committee members at the present time
really speaks to the court providing information. Perhaps that is
something that needs to be looked at in the Judiciary Committee.
MR. LINDSTROM did not know if that was still the intent of the
sponsor. If the department is providing the information under the
bill, that is not the way the language is drafted at the present
time. There is also language in the CS just adopted that HESS
Committee members should be aware of. The language just amended
refers to a municipal or law enforcement agency providing
information to school districts, not the DFYS. Therefore, there
are several things going on here.
Number 1238
MR. LINDSTROM said he knew the Department of Public Safety, the
Department of Law and the DHSS will be addressing those concerns in
the Judiciary Committee.
MR. LINDSTROM made a personal observation. He believed that what
needs to happen is what started to happen earlier this week. When
education representatives which include the school district
administrators, the school board association and NEA Alaska
representatives, the DHSS, the Department of Law, and the
Department of Public Safety get together, what everyone wants is to
make a system that gets the information to where it needs to go.
This bill is not self-implementing. It will require additional
regulations.
MR. LINDSTROM thinks that everyone is heading in the same
direction, and he appreciated the opportunity to work with
Representative Green and others.
MR. LINDSTROM said the DHSS believes that it can take the
legislators where they want to go in terms of the provisions of
this bill.
Number 1293
CO-CHAIR BUNDE noted he supports the word "shall" instead of the
word "may." He has grave concern about getting to the classroom
teacher.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked to speak on two issues. She asked if
it would make more sense to go back to the existing law instead of
making it permissive, that the existing law be changed to "shall."
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON also asked who is going to draft the
regulations. It is not going to be DHSS. She asked if it was
going to be the courts or the police department.
Number 1330
MR. LINDSTROM answered the first question. He thinks there will be
at least one additional meeting of the working group that seems to
be coalescing around this issue. Perhaps some thought can be given
to what the language ought to be in the next committee of referral.
MR. LINDSTROM said he cannot speak for another department, and he
certainly cannot speak for another branch of government. But he is
sure the court system is going to want to revisit the issue of who
will be providing the information. Again, the draft before HESS
Committee members really puts the onus on the court system, and Mr.
Lindstrom knows that is not acceptable to them.
MR. LINDSTROM said assuming that hurdle is overcome, he would
further assume there would be regulations promulgated by DHSS by,
he thinks, the Department of Public Safety. He does not know if
the Department of Law would also promulgate regulations.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE called for the vote, closing public testimony.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she will not object to the bill, but
she wants to strongly encourage the process that is going on. She
does not personally think this legislation is needed, and she is
hoping that before it ever gets to the floor of the House that
there has been some sort of miracle solution. She does not object
to the movement of the bill.
Number 1400
MR. ROSE, AASB, said he could clarify some of the topics discussed.
He said the discussion is trying to solve who is the most
appropriate person to contact. Recognizing the disparity between
school districts, the AASB has put out a survey. The AASB wants to
identify the communications link, how we communicate, what type of
information needs to be transmitted and who is the most appropriate
person. From a school district point of view there is great
exposure that will require school districts to address the policy
issue of how this communication is transmitted.
MR. ROSE thinks, to the degree that you want teachers involved,
that has to be inclusive. But the issue of confidentiality must
be recognized and how information is transferred. Mr. Rose would
agree that departments will have to promulgate some sort of
regulations and school districts will have to as well to protect
their interests.
Number 1443
CO-CHAIR BUNDE expressed a great deal of confidence in the sponsor
of the bill to continue the bi-partisan and collaborative effort.
There being no objection, CSHB 125(HES) was moved from the HESS
Committee with individual recommendations.
HHES - 03/16/95
HB 168 - PERMITS FOR NONRESIDENT OPTOMETRISTS.
Number 1483
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY moved the CS for HB 168. It is 9LS0671-G. There
were no objections. The reasoning behind the CS was that there was
a problem in language that has since been approved by Dr. Roy Box,
an optometrist in Juneau, and by Catherine Reardon of the Division
of Occupational Licensing in the Department of Commerce. There is
a zero fiscal note.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY explained that the new language requires that the
training of the incoming optometrists be uniform.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said this is the locum tenus bill.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said there was a question concerning optometrists
who come into Alaska from other parts of the country. The question
regarded whether the new optometrist was licensed and had they been
trained in using medications for the eye. This provision has been
included in the bill.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked for and found no public testimony.
Number 1537
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved that the CSHB 168 pass the HESS
Committee with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal
notes. Hearing no objection, CSHB 168(HES) passed the committee.
HHES - 03/16/95
HB 228 - REDUCTION IN PUBLIC ASSISTANCE PAYMENTS
CO-CHAIR BUNDE announced that HB 228 would be held for further
discussion and it would probably be heard in the coming week.
HHES - 03/16/95
HB 171 - COMMISSIONER OF EDUCATION SERVES AT BOARD'S PLEASURE
Number 1580
TOM ANDERSON, Legislative Assistant for Representative Terry
Martin, provided the sponsor statement for HB 171. He said
Representative Martin was unable to attend due to a Legislative
Budget and Audit meeting.
MR. ANDERSON said basically, the bill addresses a recent occurrence
regarding the commissioner of education. There was an article
included in the bill packets from the newspaper which stated that
Commissioner Covey was given an "early-out payoff" of about
$120,000 because of a contractual agreement he had made due to AS
14.07.145 in the statutes. This basically allows a commissioner to
serve a term of office of five years. This means a commissioner of
Education and also the commissioner of Fish and Game can remain
through one governor's term to another if there is a switch in
Administrations.
MR. ANDERSON continued that in essence, the current Governor of
Alaska, in the hopes of getting rid of Commissioner Covey, had to
essentially pay him off. Representative Martin feels this is wrong
and should not occur. Therefore he drafted HB 171, which says the
commissioner of Education serves at the pleasure of the Board of
Education, and may not be appointed by the board for a term of
office.
MR. ANDERSON said therefore, that would exclude the five-year rule.
The five-year rule was put in place to bridge continuity in Fish
and Game for fish management issues and for education goals. But
this is not necessary because currently the present commissioner is
extremely qualified to serve and can continue those goals.
Number 1678
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that he was addressing "golden parachutes," and
certainly the commissioner of Education is not the only person that
has ever encountered a golden parachute. Co-Chair Bunde asked if
Mr. Anderson had an amendment. Mr. Anderson did have an amendment,
and Co-Chair Bunde moved it. An objection was raised for
discussion purposes.
MR. ANDERSON said the amendment continues the concept of the bill
by prohibiting the use of state money for severance pay or other
separation bonus for certain public officials. An example of the
need for this amendment is the former executive director of the
Alaska Housing Finance Corporation (AHFC) was in the job for about
six months. He had a golden parachute of $60,000 as a severance
payoff, as did the previous executive director. Mr. Anderson said
this has happened at other levels, but he did not have any
statistics handy at the moment.
MR. ANDERSON said the amendment prevents that type of severance
pay.
Number 1731
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the amendment was obviously expanding the bill,
and it did not seem like it fit under the current bill title.
MR. ANDERSON said there is going to be a title change should the
amendment pass.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said therefore, there are two different issues. The
first is the five-year term, and the second is the golden
parachute. He asked the HESS Committee members if they understood
the amendment and the thrust of the bill. A vote was called on
amendment number one.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG interjected that he had concerns. In the
course of dealing with employee and executive compensation and
employment, in certain instances there might even be provisions for
severance in a hiring contract as part of a bargaining basis.
Representative Rokeberg asked if this bill would affect such
aspects.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Anderson if he was right to assume that
this would be not retroactive. It would only apply to future
contracts. He was right.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said that was not his question. He asked
if a term or element of a bargain for an employment contract was
agreed upon with one of these stipulated officers, would HB 171
make that bargained-for provision illegal.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY answered yes.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE thought Representative Rokeberg previously meant the
bargain was part of a current contract.
Number 1804
MR. ANDERSON said on page 2, lines 6 and 7 say that the bill does
not affect an agreement entered into before a certain date.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said it is not uncommon, when an executive
is approached to take a state job, that he or she will take a pay
cut. There might be some consideration in the contract to do it up
front.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said this bill would preclude the state negotiating
a severance package. It is not right for a person to work for six
months and then get $60,000 as a parachute when an education bill
was just passed that was quite heavy-handed.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that in the private sector,
there are many activities like this that are preconditioned, pre-
existing bargains and agreements. They have nothing to do with
golden parachutes.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE responded that the private sector is the private
sector, and they can spend their money however they want. This is
the state, and the people do not want their money spent on high-
dollar individuals passing through.
Number 1851
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he does not want to restrict the
recruitment of good people from some top level corporations. He
suggested an amendment would help the bill further. He agrees with
the concept, but HESS Committee members should be careful and not
rush the bill through the committee.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE felt that you either allow severance pay or you
don't. If the bill was amended to allow severance pay, then there
is no need for the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the bill says, "or other separation
bonus." He has not had proper time to study the bill.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the bill did not have to be moved that day.
Number 1881
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS sees some corporations, even though they are
under the Executive Budget Act, which are quasi-governmental
organizations and as such, they need to operate as independently as
they can at times without the government looking over their back
before they make decisions. The ability to provide severance pay
has a purpose, mostly in the private sector, but also in the public
sector. Representative Davis said therefore, he would object to
the amendment and would rather discuss the issue more in detail
before it is voted on to possibly kill the amendment.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE did not see an obligation of the state to make
wealthy people wealthier.
MR. ANDERSON added that generally, one can look at past occurrences
such as the building that the AHFC was intending to construct but
the legislature said "stop." That would perhaps be a retort to the
statement that Representative Davis does not want to micro-manage
the quasi-entities. Yet, situations like this can occur, in which
there was no vote by the legislature and now they are constructing
a building. That is going to be prevented.
Number 1951
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said obviously, people need to study the issue more
closely. A vote will not be called for on the amendment at this
time. The bill and amendment will be heard at a later time.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG felt that the bill should be studied more
closely. The money enables one to be able to remove his or her
family and leave the state after his/her contract expired normally
or he/she was terminated under a termination clause. This
situation is very common, especially in jobs such as school
superintendents and university presidents. The amendment clearly
reads of a separation, but the amendment should be cleaned up.
Representative Rokeberg does not want to restrict hiring practices.
However, he agrees with Co-Chair Bunde conceptually about golden
parachutes.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG felt, however, that if it was a pre-agreed
bonus or provision going into employment, that is not the same
thing.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY referred to Section 2 of the bill, which regarded
severance pay. The bill states unless they qualify under a general
law applicable to all qualified persons, "the following persons may
not be paid severance pay or other separation bonuses...."
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY noted that if that is the practice of the state to
do that for all separations, then that is fine.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that time will be more productively served
after all HESS Committee members have studied the bill and the
issue more thoroughly. He withdrew the motion to move amendment
number one pending further discussion.
ADJOURNMENT
CO-CHAIR BUNDE adjourned the meeting at 5:08 p.m.
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