Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/20/1995 02:08 PM HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                         April 20, 1995                                        
                           2:08  p.m.                                          
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
 Representative Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                       
 Representative Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                            
 Representative Al Vezey                                                       
 Representative Gary Davis                                                     
 Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                
 Representative Caren Robinson                                                 
 Representative Tom Brice                                                      
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
 * HB 280:   "An Act establishing the Alaska Human Resource                    
             Investment Council and transferring certain functions             
             of other entities to the council; establishing a                  
             planning mechanism for employment training and other              
             human resource investment needs; and providing for an             
             effective date."                                                  
             HEARD AND HELD                                                    
 * HB 309:   "An Act approving the University of Alaska's plans to             
             enter into long-term obligations to borrow money from             
             the Alaska Housing Finance Corporation for the                    
             acquisition of student housing facilities; and                    
             providing for an effective date."                                 
             PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
 * HCR 18:   Endorsing a proposal by which the Alaska Housing                  
             Finance Corporation, under provisions of law by which             
             the corporation may exercise its powers to complete               
             moderate income and rental housing, will make                     
             interest-subsidized loans for the construction of                 
             student housing facilities at certain campuses of the             
             University of Alaska, and relating to an agreement                
             between the parties respecting the initiation of                  
             student housing on certain campuses of the University             
             of Alaska.                                                        
             PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
 CONFIRMATION HEARINGS - University of Alaska Board of Regents.                
 * HB 229:   "An Act prohibiting certain amplified sounds from                 
             automobiles; and providing for an effective date."                
             PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
 BOB RUBADEAU, Special Assistant to the Lieutenant Governor                    
 Lieutenant Governor's Office                                                  
 State Capitol, 3rd Floor                                                      
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3520                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided sponsor statement for HB 280.                    
 JANICE TATLOW, Council Member                                                 
 Private Industry Council                                                      
 P.O. Box 1621                                                                 
 Palmer, AK  99645                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 745-4488                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 280.                           
 DEBRA CALL, Chairwoman                                                        
 Alaska Job Training Council                                                   
 P.O. Box 93330                                                                
 Anchorage, AK  99509                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 561-3200                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 280.                           
 SARAH SCANLON, Former Chair                                                   
 Alaska Job Training Council                                                   
 1001 E. Benson Blvd.                                                          
 Anchorage, AK  99508                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 265-4100                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 280.                           
 JERRY LEWIS, Executive Director                                               
 Governor's Council on Vocational Education                                    
 211 Fourth Street, Suite 101                                                  
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 586-1736                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 280.                           
 REBECCA NANCE, Director                                                       
 Employment Security Division                                                  
 Department of Labor                                                           
 P.O. Box 25509                                                                
 Juneau, AK  99802-1149                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2711                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 280.                           
 JACK SHAY                                                                     
 P.O. Box 3159                                                                 
 Ketchikan, AK  99901                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 225-7429                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 280.                           
 TOM ANDERSON, Legislative Assistant                                           
 Representative Terry Martin's Office                                          
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol, Room 502                                                       
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3783                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided the sponsor statement for HB 309.                
 WENDY REDMAN, Vice President                                                  
 Statewide University System                                                   
 University of Alaska                                                          
 P.O. Box 155000                                                               
 Fairbanks, AK  99775                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 474-7311                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 309 and HCR 18.                
 MARSHALL LIND, Chancellor                                                     
 University of Alaska Southeast                                                
 11120 Glacier Highway                                                         
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-6472                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 309 and HCR 18.                
 LEE GORSUCH, Chancellor                                                       
 University of Alaska Anchorage                                                
 3211 Providence Drive                                                         
 Anchorage, AK  99503                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 786-1437                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 309 and HCR 18.               
 BILL HOWE, Deputy Commissioner of Revenue                                     
 Treasury Division                                                             
 P.O. Box 110405                                                               
 Juneau, AK  99811-0405                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4880                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 309 and HCR 18.                
 JACK DALTON, President                                                        
 Union of Students                                                             
 University of Alaska Anchorage                                                
 3211 Providence Drive                                                         
 Anchorage, AK  99508                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 786-1207                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 309 and HCR 18.                
 HEATH HILYARD, Legislative Affairs Director                                   
 Associated Students                                                           
 University of Alaska Fairbanks                                                
 c/o Wood Center                                                               
 Fairbanks, AK  99775                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 474-6036                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 309 and HCR 18.                
 CHRISTINA BROLLINI, Senator                                                   
 Union of Students                                                             
 University of Alaska Anchorage                                                
 1833 N. Western                                                               
 Anchorage, AK  99508                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 786-1205                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 309 and HCR 18.                
 DAVID WALKER, Chairman,                                                       
 Rules Committee, Union of Students                                            
 University of Alaska Anchorage                                                
 4231 Laurel Street, Apt. 304                                                  
 Anchorage, AK  99508                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 786-1960                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 309 and HCR 18.               
 CHANCY CROFT, Attorney                                                        
 441 W. 5th Avenue, Suite 400                                                  
 Anchorage, AK  99501                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 272-3508                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as a candidate for the University of            
                     Alaska Board of Regents.                                  
 JOE J. THOMAS, Business manager/Secretary Treasurer                           
 Laborers' Local 942                                                           
 315 Barnette Street                                                           
 Fairbanks, AK  99701                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 452-3139                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as a candidate for the University of            
                     Alaska Board of Regents.                                  
 SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant                                      
 Representative Rokeberg's Office                                              
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol, Room 110                                                       
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4968                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 229.                           
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
 BILL:  HB 280                                                                
 SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                  
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 03/24/95       896    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/24/95       896    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                      
 03/24/95       896    (H)   FISCAL NOTE (GOV)                                 
 03/24/95       896    (H)   4 ZERO FNS (DCED, DCRA, DOE, DHSS)                
 03/24/95       897    (H)   2 ZERO FNS (LABOR, UA)                            
 03/24/95       897    (H)   GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                     
 03/24/95       899    (H)   SECTIONAL ANALYSIS                                
 04/20/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 BILL:  HB 309                                                                
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN                                          
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 04/13/95      1318    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 04/13/95      1319    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                      
 04/20/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 BILL:  HCR 18                                                                
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN                                          
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 04/13/95      1318    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 04/13/95      1318    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                      
 04/20/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 BILL:  HB 229                                                                
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) ROKEBERG,Toohey,Bunde                           
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 03/03/95       565    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/03/95       566    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, HES, JUDICIARY                     
 04/05/95      1039    (H)   STA REFERRAL WAIVED                               
 04/13/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 04/13/95              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                       
 04/20/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
 TAPE 95-39, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR CON BUNDE called the meeting of the House Health,                    
 Education and Social Services standing committee to order at 2:08             
 p.m.  Present at the call to order were Representatives Bunde,                
 Toohey, Rokeberg, and Davis.  A quorum was present to conduct                 
 business.  Co-Chair Bunde read the calendar and announced the order           
 of the bills.  Representative Brice joined the meeting.                       
 HB 280 - HUMAN RESOURCE INVESTMENT COUNCIL                                  
 Number 095                                                                    
 BOB RUBADEAU, Special Assistant to the Lieutenant Governor, said              
 Representative Phillips began this initiative to allow Alaska to              
 incorporate all of its federally mandated supervisory policy                  
 committees that oversee federal funding for many of the vocational            
 job skill development and vocational education opportunities in the           
 MR. RUBADEAU said these committees have the opportunity under a               
 recently passed federal statute to consolidate into one oversight             
 committee to help states plan for many of the coming funding                  
 opportunities.  These committees will also have the opportunity to            
 respond to the block grant scenario in a more consolidated way.               
 Number 194                                                                    
 MR. RUBADEAU said HB 280 basically takes the Alaska Job Training              
 Council, the Governor's Council on Vocational Education, and the              
 Employment Security Advisory Council, and incorporates them into              
 one body.  Membership that is presently at 38 will be taken down to           
 a minimum of 21 and a maximum of 26 members.  The efficiency and              
 economy of scale the Human Resources Investment Council (HRIC)                
 hopes to accomplish by doing this will also provide some initial              
 MR. RUBADEAU said the opportunity for more cohesive and effective             
 planning for all the vocational education and job training skills             
 presents itself for the entire Alaska workforce in the coming                 
 Number 261                                                                    
 MR. RUBADEAU said 21 states presently have taken advantage of this            
 option under federal law.  HB 280 was created after a study of all            
 the different existing programs for all the HRICs.  The drafters of           
 the bill looked at many of the provisions in HB 280, hoping to                
 raise the debate about policy and decision making for vocational              
 education and job skill training.  The drafters hope to place that            
 debate into the Governor's office.                                            
 MR. RUBADEAU offered to go through a sectional analysis of the                
 bill.  Section 1 of the bill basically sets out the legislative               
 findings, and looks at the many job training and vocational                   
 education programs that exist within Alaska's workforce.  It is               
 estimated that there are approximately 16 different groups that may           
 apply in the future for consolidation under the Alaska HRIC                   
 MR. RUBADEAU continued that Section 2 directs the Board of                    
 Education to consider the advice of the HRIC in the development of            
 their vocational education programs.  Initially, it is a given that           
 all education leads toward jobs and job skill development.                    
 Number 362                                                                    
 MR. RUBADEAU said Section 3 makes a member of HRIC a member of the            
 Alaska Commission on Postsecondary Education.  Within the bill, the           
 Postsecondary Education is rescinded underneath HB 280.  Section 4            
 includes HRIC as a state board or commission, whose membership is             
 also subject to conflict of interest reporting requirements under             
 AS 39.50.                                                                     
 MR. RUBADEAU said Section 5 establishes the HRIC in the office of             
 the Governor.  This is very important.  The bill that dealt with              
 the HRIC that was previously passed through the House and the                 
 Senate last year, and was vetoed by Governor Hickel, did not have             
 this provision.  The drafters of the bill felt this was an                    
 important component as all of the different agencies in the bodies            
 that are proposed for consolidation under this act are dealt with.            
 Number 390                                                                    
 MR. RUBADEAU said Section 5 establishes the HRIC as the state                 
 planning and coordinating entity for certain state programs that              
 are administered under a number of different federal provisions.              
 This will allow the HRIC to anticipate and respond to whatever                
 funding scenario is passed down through federal legislation.  Mr.             
 Rubadeau felt the council should be prepared for anything.                    
 MR. RUBADEAU summarized Sections 6 through 15, noting that they               
 provide the statutory and session law changes for consistency with            
 the shift of responsibilities to the HRIC, including the deletions            
 of references to the Job Training Council and the other councils              
 that are presently under state statute.                                       
 MR. RUBADEAU felt the provision set out in Section 16 was also a              
 very important part of HB 280.  When Mr. Rubadeau began studying              
 the different agencies involved and the different boards and                  
 commissions that were suggested for consolidation, he wanted to be            
 sure that each of those had ownership and understanding of what was           
 envisioned in the bill.                                                       
 Number 496                                                                    
 MR. RUBADEAU said because of the arcane requirements for the                  
 federal funding programs (such as Job Training and the Carl Perkins           
 Grants), the sponsors of the bill needed to effectively make sure             
 they were maximizing the state's revenue from the federal level by            
 not missing any of the opportunities under the existing law.  In              
 addition, as the sponsors began to plan a coordinated effort for              
 planning on the state level to make Alaska's plan unique to meet              
 Alaska's needs, they kept in mind a sunset provision.  This                   
 provision would basically give the councils an opportunity to plan            
 their own consolidation efforts to give the sponsors some                     
 understanding of how their missions and funding requirements would            
 be met.                                                                       
 MR. RUBADEAU said the sponsor's office asked the councils to                  
 propose their own terms of consolidation over 18 months.                      
 Number 550                                                                    
 MR. RUBADEAU hoped that after the creation of the HRIC on July 1,             
 1995, the HRIC will be fully in place and empowered with the                  
 different missions of the consolidated boards and commissions by              
 July 1, 1996.                                                                 
 MR. RUBADEAU continued that Sections 18 and 19 address the specific           
 federal requirements for reporting from the private industry                  
 councils and the other existing regional development councils.                
 Those councils have been very effective in relaying the needs of              
 the Alaska work force to the state legislature, and to the                    
 oversight and representative committees.                                      
 MR. RUBADEAU noted that one of the most important aspects of this             
 bill is that the bill has brought together the needs and desires of           
 the agencies to fulfill their requirements on job skills and                  
 vocational education on the part of the Alaska work force.  The               
 bill's sponsors have explained the provisions to the different                
 councils and commissions.  Recently there was a joint meeting of              
 all the commissions and boards that are proposed to be                        
 consolidated.  Each of the commissions and boards have supported              
 this concept, and are present at the HESS Committee meeting to                
 testify to that fact.                                                         
 Number 1687                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE agreed that HB 280 is a major piece of legislation,            
 and input from representatives of the involved boards and                     
 commissions would be greatly appreciated.                                     
 Number 734                                                                    
 JANICE TATLOW, Council Member, Private Industry Council, serving              
 the Anchorage, Mat-Su area, testified via teleconference that she             
 is pleased with the efforts that have been made toward the                    
 development of the HRIC.  There is also a great effort going on in            
 Alaska to see if there can be three pilot projects in the nature of           
 career development centers that would improve service to Alaska.              
 MS. TATLOW said it is her understanding that each career                      
 development center will be based   throughout the state.  Ms. Tatlow          
 was concerned that the way the HRIC seats are configured may lack             
 a link with the local communities and the local people.  Job                  
 training is very effective in local communities, and Ms. Tatlow               
 suggested a provision be made.                                                
 MS. TATLOW stated lines 9 and 10, Section 5, says there would be              
 four representatives from business and industry.  She asked if the            
 statement could be amended to include "...with at least two                   
 representatives from a private industry council, representing                 
 private sector business."                                                     
 Number 840                                                                    
 MS. TATLOW also suggested a change on line 22 of that section.                
 line 22, she said, reads of "at least one, and up to four                     
 additional members of the private sector to insure a private sector           
 majority in regional and local representation on the council."  Ms.           
 Tatlow asked if the phrase, "...with at least one member from the             
 Private Industry Council, representing private sector business"               
 could be added.                                                               
 MS. TATLOW also noted that HB 280 provides for a nonvoting member             
 of the HRIC.  In order to keep the links strong in each local area            
 to insure continuity and stability in services and employment                 
 training programs, perhaps membership could be considered in the              
 nonvoting segment for the three service delivery area managers.               
 These are the people that have worked on all ends of the employment           
 and training segment.  These people work with the Governor's                  
 office, the local staff, and the patrons of the training.                     
 MS. TATLOW said these people, over the years, have developed a lot            
 of expertise and professionalism.  They know what will and won't              
 work.  Ms. Tatlow thinks Alaska is entering a time of great change.           
 Career development centers are being investigated, Congress is                
 considering block grants, and Alaska is considering the HRIC.                 
 These are very positive moves for the future.  Anyone Ms. Tatlow              
 has spoken with has well-received these ideas.  However, Ms. Tatlow           
 wants to be sure the state has a strong link to the local people              
 who will be served.                                                           
 Number 970                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR CYNTHIA TOOHEY had been looking over the list of proposed            
 HRIC members.  She felt there was a wide representation from                  
 private sector businesses.  That representation is covered better             
 than any other sector.                                                        
 MS. TATLOW agreed.  However, she was concerned that people who have           
 been involved with employment and training programs, and have                 
 worked many years with the Private Industry Council, will not be              
 included.  Many of the council members are private sector business            
 people.  Ms. Tatlow would not like to see that talent and knowledge           
 wasted.  She felt to ignore their experience would be like                    
 reinventing the wheel.  If their inclusion in the bill was                    
 expressed, their experience would help maintain the continuity of             
 employment training.                                                          
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY appreciated Ms. Tatlow's testimony.  However, she             
 asked Ms. Tatlow to look at line 24, page 4 of the bill.  It speaks           
 of additional nonvoting members.  Co-Chair Toohey told Ms. Tatlow             
 that if and when this bill passes, and the HRIC is comprised, that            
 is the provision that can provide the balance Ms. Tatlow seeks.               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY felt, however, that the Governor's office will                
 certainly take Ms. Tatlow's testimony into consideration.                     
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE announced the arrival of Representative Robinson at            
 2:10 p.m.                                                                     
 Number 1099                                                                   
 DEBRA CALL, Chairwoman, Alaska Job Training Council, said before              
 she speaks, she would like to ask the previous chair of the Job               
 Training Council (JTC) to provide HESS Committee members with a               
 brief history of how this legislation developed.  Then Ms. Call               
 said she would provide a briefing on the current national status of           
 legislation such as this.                                                     
 SARAH SCANLON, Vice-president of Human Resources, Northwestern                
 Alaska Native Association (NANA); former Chairwoman, Alaska JTC;              
 said she represents the private sector.  The issue of consolidating           
 the human resource initiatives has been ongoing for more than ten             
 years.  As some are aware, there have been attempts in the past to            
 push policy through.  Unfortunately, efforts have failed up to this           
 MS. SCANLON understood the last bill was vetoed by Governor Hickel            
 for reasons of state agency interference.  She hoped that will not            
 happen with this bill.                                                        
 Number 1195                                                                   
 MS. SCANLON said there is a need to consolidate the many human                
 resource investment programs, and there are many reasons to do so.            
 The rural economies demand that these changes move the state toward           
 a quality work force.  In the private sector, fragmented systems              
 that make it difficult to find decent employees to fill the many              
 jobs that are available cannot be tolerated.  The lack of a                   
 connecting education system and the lack of communication between             
 state and federal programs are great problems.                                
 MS. SCANLON said the creation of the HRIC provides the opportunity            
 to solve those problems.  In addition, the consolidation of the               
 many councils is going to eliminate all the waste that is occurring           
 in the multiple council staff configurations.  The travel alone for           
 a group of different people doing the same things is unnecessary.             
 Ms. Scanlon fully supports what the bill attempts to do in                    
 eliminating the waste that is occurring.                                      
 Number 1287                                                                   
 MS. SCANLON said this is one of those bills that makes sense to the           
 private sector and to the state employees.  Everyone wants to do a            
 better job, and it will force people to communicate with each other           
 more and work more closely together.                                          
 MS. SCANLON stated it was important to have a system driven by the            
 customer's needs.  For too long, the system has paid too much                 
 attention to what the state workers want to do and what the federal           
 requirements are.  Not enough attention has been given to the                 
 customer and the end product.  Therefore, the HRIC is beyond its              
 time.  Ms. Scanlon expressed her organization's support for the               
 bill, and asked HESS Committee members to support it also.                    
 Number 1308                                                                   
 MS. CALL offered to bring HESS Committee members up to date on                
 these issues.  She said she currently serves as the chair of the              
 JTC, and she also serves as a member of the national JTC.  The                
 national group has been meeting on a semi-annual basis to track               
 what is going on in Congress.  Currently, there are five bills in             
 Congress that propose to consolidate employment training programs             
 on the federal level.  What that means, and as Ms. Scanlon                    
 explained, is that block grants may be received at some point.                
 That is being anticipated.                                                    
 MS. CALL said a block grant to the state of Alaska will be setting            
 the priorities on employment and training programs.  Issues such as           
 where those monies will go and what issues are going to be                    
 addressed will be taken into consideration.  It looks very                    
 promising that Congress will pass one of the bills.  She expects              
 consolidation bills to pass in both the federal House and Senate.             
 The House bill proposes block grants for each state, covering                 
 populations in need of employment training.                                   
 Number 1363                                                                   
 MS. CALL understood that Senator Stevens is very much in support of           
 the efforts on HB 280.  He feels that nationally, the consolidation           
 is an issue being discussed.                                                  
 Number 1406                                                                   
 JERRY LEWIS, Executive Director, Governor's Council on Vocational             
 Education (GCOVE), said GCOVE just completed, on March 31, a                  
 biennial report that dealt with the coordination of the Job                   
 Training Partnership Act (JTPA), its delivery system, and the                 
 Vocational Education delivery system.  Out of that biennial report,           
 the following recommendation was made.  GCOVE is committed to                 
 helping promote vocational education and JTPA coordination in the             
 state of Alaska.                                                              
 MR. LEWIS said after reviewing the JTPA delivery system and its               
 coordination with vocational education programs along with current            
 national trends, GCOVE recognizes the necessity of the formation of           
 an HRIC.  The specific provision of the JTPA amendments that most             
 significantly affect the cooperation with vocational education and            
 other systems concerns the HRIC, which the JTPA amendments empower            
 the Governor to establish as a means of coordinating and                      
 integrating JTPA, vocational education, and other systems of Human            
 Resources Development.                                                        
 Number 1414                                                                   
 MR. LEWIS continued that HB 280 facilitates this integration, and             
 the GCOVE concurs with its premise.  The expected benefit of this             
 recommendation is the development of a statewide system that will             
 serve all Alaskans more efficiently.  Additionally, in order to               
 accommodate the comprehensive system, the GCOVE would recommend               
 that the School-to-Work Transition Council be included under the              
 umbrella of the HRIC.                                                         
 MR. LEWIS said to neglect this would be to fall short of the                  
 complete consolidation necessary to avoid fragmentation of                    
 programs, resources, and the possibility of duplicated services.              
 One of the members of GCOVE, David Stone, could not be present at             
 the hearing although he wanted to be.  He asked Mr. Lewis to                  
 apologize for his absence and express his support for the HRIC.               
 Number 1511                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if Mr. Lewis was requesting a specific space            
 on the HRIC for a School-to-Work Transition Council member.                   
 MR. LEWIS answered that he was asking that School-to-Work be                  
 included in the list of representatives.                                      
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY agreed that was critical.                                     
 REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS noted that one of the first callers on              
 teleconference requested a "slot" be made for Private Industry                
 Councils.  On page 4, line 10, it indicates "four representatives             
 from business and industry, with at least one representative from             
 the private industry councils appointed under 29. U.S.C. 1512."               
 Representative Davis asked how those federal statutes relate to the           
 Private Industry Council that is currently in place.                          
 MR. LEWIS answered that the job training partnership amendments of            
 1992 are the ones that allow the creation of the HRIC.  They                  
 specifically had a percentage of the representatives on the                   
 council.  A percentage has to be from the private sector, a                   
 percentage has to be union, a percentage must be included from the            
 public sector.  The membership numbers that were arrived at for the           
 HRIC, the 21 to 26, was to fit that formula.                                  
 Number 1566                                                                   
 MR. LEWIS said GCOVE is required under the Carl D. Perkins Act,               
 which is up for reauthorization right now.  The Administration's              
 bill has been submitted by Senator Kennedy and Representative Clay,           
 and a committee is working on the committee's bill.  That is going            
 to change the Carl D. Perkins Act considerably.  The                          
 Administration's bill in itself eliminates Section 112, which                 
 requires that there be a state council on vocational education.               
 With the elimination of that council, something will have to be in            
 place within the state to handle the predicted block grants.                  
 MR. LEWIS said no one knows if the state is going to receive one              
 block grant, or four.  That depends on which bill in Congress                 
 passes through.  Having an HRIC in place when the legislation is              
 passed will help Alaska be ahead of the game.                                 
 Number 1621                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked to follow up on those comments.  He                
 asked if the current private industry council that is currently in            
 place was formed under the U.S. Code referred to in the bill.                 
 MR. LEWIS noted there is more than one private industry council in            
 the state.  The statewide private industry council, of which David            
 Stone is the Juneau Chair, just completed its last meeting                    
 yesterday.  That council is under the authorization of that U.S.              
 Number 1661                                                                   
 REBECCA NANCE, Director, Employment Security Division, Department             
 of Labor, said the Alaska Department of Labor (DOL) is in support             
 of the Alaska HRIC legislation for a variety of reasons.  Alaskans            
 are the most important resource available in the state.  The HRIC             
 is good public policy because the bill provides for the                       
 coordination and consolidation advocated by the public for more               
 efficient and effective government.                                           
 MS. NANCE also believed it was good for the DOL because it will               
 help it realize its mission of promoting the wage-earner of Alaska            
 and assuring that Alaskans will obtain the training they need in              
 order to be competitive for the available jobs.  Therefore, the               
 need to rely on the nonresident work force will be reduced.                   
 MS. NANCE stated the DOL is in support of this legislation as a               
 partner to the jobs program.  This bill will strengthen the ability           
 of the DOL to get welfare recipients back to work.  It will provide           
 a little more flexibility in terms of systems delivery.                       
 MS. NANCE concluded by saying that when the time comes for the                
 creation and implementation of this legislation and the HRIC in               
 Alaska, the DOL will be poised and ready to receive the federal               
 block grants that seem imminent for employment and training                   
 Number 1739                                                                   
 JACK SHAY represented himself at the hearing.  He said he is a                
 former member of the JTC and the private industry councils, serving           
 under four different governors.  He is also a former director of              
 the Employment Security Division.  He has been involved in training           
 programs and private industry councils for quite some time.  He               
 mildly disagreed with Janice Tatlow about a concern that perhaps              
 there would not be enough private industry involvement in this                
 MR. SHAY was virtually sure there will be plenty of involvement.              
 It is designed into the law, and it is part of the JTPA.  In                  
 addition, Ms. Scanlon noted that this legislation has been in                 
 progress for quite some time.  Mr. Shay is currently retired, but             
 he is still interested in this arena because he agrees very                   
 strongly that the people are Alaska's greatest resource.                      
 Number 1776                                                                   
 MR. SHAY said the federal government came up with the enabling                
 legislation for this type of provision.  As a matter of fact, the             
 federal legislation was actually encouraging states to consolidate            
 these bodies, focus more on the problems at hand, avoid duplication           
 efforts, and generally coordinate all the provisions of employment            
 and training.                                                                 
 MR. SHAY felt this legislation is a good idea.  There might be one            
 possible amendment the HESS Committee members might like to                   
 consider, however.  The way the council is currently designed,                
 there will be 23 to 26 members.  That seems to be rather unwieldy.            
 Mr. Shay has served on bodies containing that many members.  If               
 there was some good way of perhaps reducing the number (and Mr.               
 Shay did not have any cogent suggestions at the time), he would               
 urge HESS Committee members to look into it.                                  
 MR. SHAY noted that the JTPA does require a certain percentage of             
 persons on the board.  In fact, it requires a majority of the                 
 private industry.  Other than that, drawing on his many years in              
 this field, Mr. Shay felt this legislation was splendid, and he               
 urged its passage.                                                            
 Number 1828                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON asked where the recipients of these             
 services fit in on the board.  She asked Mr. Shay what he thought.            
 MR. SHAY said that was an excellent question.  He said he was                 
 involved in the design of policy, and not in the design of actual             
 delivery and procedures.  He deferred the question to perhaps                 
 someone from the Governor's office.  However, he said the bottom              
 line is training individuals for jobs that exist in the labor                 
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Rubadeau to speak to the fiscal note.  He            
 also asked if Mr. Rubadeau had a grasp on what the state could                
 expect to save from consolidation.  Co-Chair Bunde understood that            
 an efficient operation may mean better service, but he was                    
 concerned about funding.                                                      
 Number 1897                                                                   
 MR. RUBADEAU agreed everything boils down to dollars and cents.               
 The state, however, needs to focus on more of the "sense" part of             
 this legislation.  By efficiency of scale, by dropping from 38                
 members to 23 to 26 members, there will be a slight economy of                
 meeting.   There will not be duplication of effort.  The state is             
 looking at doing a lot of the initial work in subcommittees (there            
 will be standing subcommittees of this group) which will report on            
 specific parts and portions of the job training in vocational                 
 education aspects around the state.                                           
 Number 1924                                                                   
 MR. RUBADEAU said the dollars reflected in the fiscal note are all            
 interagency transfers.  These are dollars that are already                    
 identified by the enabling legislation to coordinate the planning,            
 to perform responsible oversight, and to look at how to more                  
 efficiently deliver the product.                                              
 MR. RUBADEAU said as his office studied the issue, and they                   
 identified nine PCNs that have been formally allocated over ten               
 years through different scenarios to the ongoing policy development           
 under the federal guidelines.  Presently, there are three PCNs that           
 are servicing these three councils, as well as a lot of in-kind               
 donations from the agencies under which these councils exist.  The            
 bill's sponsors are seeking to consolidate those three PCNs into              
 one, and adding a higher-level staff person.  That person would not           
 be at a higher level than those that exist currently, but would be            
 a staff person in the Governor's office who will bring the private            
 industry's concerns to a higher policy level of debate on a daily             
 MR. RUBADEAU said by the consolidation effort, it is hoped the                
 efficiency of delivery will be realized.  In addition, the private            
 industry employers and employees are the customers of the HRIC.               
 The efficiency in planning, the long-term policy and strategic                
 development that could be envisioned under the HRIC idea will be              
 the savings, but in the long run, there will not be significant               
 savings from a fiscal standpoint.                                             
 Number 2005                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Rubadeau to address the concerns of Mr.              
 Shay regarding the large membership of the proposed council.                  
 MR. RUBADEAU said he has operated with many large-sized groups.  As           
 the sponsor's office studied federal legislation, the group                   
 membership was pared down as closely as possible.  However, the               
 requirements of the enabling federal laws had to be met.  It is               
 imperative that resources from the federal government be maximized.           
 There must be no opportunity for any federal programs to tell the             
 state it did not meet requirements.  The federal program could then           
 audit the state, and the state could lose funding.                            
 MR. RUBADEAU said as different scenarios were investigated, 21 was            
 the minimum membership.  Everyone needed to come to the table with            
 a private sector majority.  That is what bumped the membership up             
 to 23 members.  The line agency commissioners had to be involved,             
 and there also had to be a private sector majority.  That is how              
 the membership rested at 23.  Many of the day-to-day working                  
 aspects of the HRIC will be handled in subcommittees that are                 
 specifically targeted for the Carl Perkins Grant and the oversight            
 of the UI trust fund.                                                         
 MR. RUBADEAU said those grants and funds will be handled and                  
 reported back to the general council.  Therefore, the sponsors                
 envision that much of the work will be done in the subcommittee and           
 brought back.                                                                 
 Number 2063                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY read page 4, line 4 of the bill: "or each                     
 respective commissioner's designee."  She asked if there was                  
 anything that precludes the other members from having their own               
 representatives if he/she cannot make the meeting.  Co-Chair Toohey           
 was concerned about the legality.                                             
 MR. RUBADEAU said it is not specifically pointed out in the                   
 legislation.  However, he feels there also will be bylaws developed           
 by the HRIC once it is developed.  Those laws will most certainly             
 address those issues.  If a quorum is hard to come by, there will             
 be some sort of enabling working document that will allow work to             
 get done.                                                                     
 Number 2100                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS noted that Mr. Rubadeau had mentioned sunset             
 dates for the existing councils that will be incorporated into the            
 HRIC.  Representative Davis thought the size of the proposed HRIC             
 will be closely scrutinized.  What the state will need is some                
 verification that the federal law is really driving this size.                
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS can foresee many people trying to whittle the            
 group down.  If the group is not going to work whittled down, then            
 people must be shown documentation as to why the group size should            
 be left alone.   In addition, federal legislation is currently in             
 the works.  It has not yet passed, therefore there may be changes             
 in those laws as they progress as to how large the council may be             
 required to be.                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS was thinking, therefore, of a possible sunset            
 clause on the HRIC so it will be revisited by statute, as opposed             
 to needing a bill to go through the process to even get the review            
 before the legislature.  Representative Davis asked if a sunset               
 date has been discussed, and how a proposed sunset date would be              
 Number 2145                                                                   
 MR. RUBADEAU felt Representative Davis brought up a very good                 
 point.  The situation at the federal level is very fluid at the               
 present.  Therefore, HB 280 seeks to operate under the best case              
 scenario.  The sponsor's office feels there will always be federal            
 monies coming to states to help with job training and vocational              
 education components of a state plan.                                         
 MR. RUBADEAU envisions this council to meet the present federal               
 requirements at the minimum.  He hopes the federal laws will not              
 change so drastically.  There always will have to be some body                
 present to accept the federal funds, and some body to disperse the            
 funds.  If the membership is studied closely, the following line              
 agencies need to be identified:  Agencies such as the Department of           
 Education, the Department of Labor, and the Department of Community           
 and Regional Affairs.                                                         
 Number 2181                                                                   
 MR. RUBADEAU stressed that it is very important that those agencies           
 be at the table.  In addition, labor needs to be at the table.  The           
 private sector needs to have the majority.  There needs to be some            
 sort of Alaskan Native component.  If one person could be                     
 identified which was not necessary to the legislation, Mr. Rubadeau           
 assured HESS Committee members that person would not be included.             
 MR. RUBADEAU said the sponsor's office would have loved to present            
 a 12-member board.  However, it could not be done legally.  If the            
 board could pare down to narrow its focus, it may well envision               
 itself doing so.  However, to envision that the state of Alaska can           
 get by with regional representation, cultural sensitivity,                    
 governmental, and nongovernmental entities as well as a private               
 sector majority, Mr. Rubadeau doubts the council can get by with              
 Number 2245                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked if Mr. Rubadeau envisioned the one,             
 consolidated position of which he previously spoke would be in                
 Juneau, Fairbanks or Anchorage.                                               
 MR. RUBADEAU said the sponsor's office feels very strongly that               
 with the sunset provisions in the bill, it does not want to                   
 anticipate the council's wishes.  Sarah Scanlon testified that this           
 legislation has been in development for ten years.  Mr. Rubadeau              
 does not want to prejudge what the council would plan to be the               
 most effective delivery system for vocational education and job               
 MR. RUBADEAU continued that three councils are proposed, and the              
 fourth, School-to-Work, is of course a natural member.  They are              
 all on parallel lines right now.  It is envisioned that, once this            
 enabling legislation allows those groups to look at a sunset                  
 provision, they converge on their own and with their own plans.  It           
 is anticipated they will work together to develop a staffing                  
 pattern with a regional representation on the HRIC.  That would               
 indicate what those groups felt was the most effective use of the             
 available dollars.  The sponsor's office therefore did not prejudge           
 where the position would be placed at the moment.                             
 Number 2300                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony.  As this was the first time           
 this bill was heard, it was the inclination of Co-Chair Bunde to              
 hold the bill.  Co-Chair Bunde asked for the wish of the committee.           
 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE expressed a willingness to move the bill             
 from committee.                                                               
 TAPE 95-39, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG was concerned about the membership             
 of the HRIC.  He had previously thought the bill would be referred            
 to a subcommittee, where his concerns could be addressed.                     
 Number 035                                                                    
 MS. CALL spoke via teleconference in response to Representative               
 Rokeberg's concerns about council size.  She said HB 280 will take            
 the three councils, which now consist of 40 members, and which are            
 now doing employment and training in the state of Alaska, and                 
 reduce that number down to 23.  If representatives are concerned              
 about size and cost, the first step would be to downsize to 23                
 MS. CALL said the second item is that the consolidation is taking             
 place under the 1992 JTPA amendment.  No matter what happens in               
 Congress, this legislation is still valid.  HB 280 provides the               
 flexibility needed to address the employment training issues in the           
 state.  Therefore, HB 280 correctly addresses what can be done, and           
 in the long run it will be more effective and efficient for                   
 MS. CALL reiterated that Alaskans are Alaska's most important                 
 resource, and the HRIC should be a priority.  When the state speaks           
 about mining, oil and timber, it certainly does not mind developing           
 those resources and spending the money to do so.  However, that               
 type of development is not discussed in relation to the Alaskan               
 people.  Therefore, Ms. Call encouraged HESS Committee members to             
 support HB 280, and move it through the legislature this year.                
 Number 165                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked how many meetings Mr. Rubadeau envisioned the           
 council having each year.                                                     
 MR. RUBADEAU answered that the three councils now meet at least               
 quarterly.  Currently, GCOVE meets quarterly also.  Therefore,                
 there are a total of 12 meetings per year.  Those 12 meetings will            
 probably shrink to 4 consolidated meetings.                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE pointed out that the HESS Committee members had                
 quite a bit more work to do.  He again asked the wish of the                  
 committee on whether to hold the bill or not.                                 
 Number 229                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS did not have a preference either way.                    
 However, if the bill was going to be moved, he had a few questions.           
 On page 4, line 6, it says the council will be made up of four                
 additional representatives of education.  One will be from local              
 public education, one from secondary vocational education....                 
 Representative Davis did not see a distinguishing factor between              
 those two members, as opposed to basic education in the public                
 schools.  Of course, the public schools do have vocational                    
 education.  The bill separates those two things in public                     
 MR. RUBADEAU agreed.  He said that if Representative Davis could be           
 procured as an advocate for school-to-work, it would be desirable             
 to erase those barriers.  All education leads toward work, and that           
 differentiation should be eliminated in any statute.  However, the            
 bill presently seeks to not preclude someone perhaps in a middle              
 school who would like to be involved in this.  Then, secondary                
 vocational education, which is felt to be a very important                    
 component now, would be working with high school educational                  
 Number 329                                                                    
 MR. RUBADEAU said the postsecondary vocational education                      
 institution is viewed as not only the public but the private                  
 vocational education institutions.  These four members are part of            
 the 15 percent requirement.  This is mandated by the federal                  
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said line 9 on that same page reads, "...four            
 representatives of business and industry...."  That is then broken            
 down.  Representative Davis then read another requirement:  "...at            
 least one representative from an organization representing                    
 employment and training needs of Alaska Natives...."  He asked if             
 that membership place may serve as one of the four stipulated on              
 line 9.                                                                       
 MR. RUBADEAU answered yes.  He said the bill aims for as much                 
 flexibility as possible, and to be culturally and regionally                  
 Number 394                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked to pursue the same line of                      
 questioning as Representative Davis in terms of membership on the             
 council.  He asked if there was anything required by federal                  
 statute that requires the Lieutenant Governor to be on the                    
 MR. RUBADEAU replied that there was not.                                      
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if there was anything in federal                
 statute that requires that both the Commissioner of Commerce and              
 the Commissioner of Community and Regional Affairs be on the                  
 MR. RUBADEAU again replied no.                                                
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said it was indicated in the bill that it             
 was a policy call as to insuring a private sector majority.                   
 Squeezing the best possible out of 23 members, he can only find               
 nine that might even be considered as representing the private                
 sector.  He asked Mr. Rubadeau to explain the breakdown of those              
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE interrupted and asked Representative Rokeberg, Co-             
 Chair Toohey and Representative Brice to work with Mr. Rubadeau to            
 answer just those types of questions.  He then asked that the bill            
 be heard again.  He asked for the wish of the committee, and the              
 committee indicated agreement with that decision.                             
 HB 309 - APPROVE U OF A DEBT FOR STUDENT HOUSING                             
  HCR 18 - UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA STUDENT HOUSING                           
 Number 528                                                                    
 TOM ANDERSON, Legislative Assistant, Representative Terry Martin's            
 Office, testified on behalf of Representative Martin that HB 309 is           
 basically an attempt to curb the current University of Alaska                 
 statewide system shortage of housing needs.  Specifically, the bill           
 addresses the University of Alaska Anchorage, Juneau, and Ketchikan           
 campuses.  The bill is an authorization bill.  Representative                 
 Martin believes the Board of Regents have worked out a significant            
 plan with the Alaska Housing Finance Corporation (AHFC).                      
 MR. ANDERSON said the companion HCR 18 is simply an endorsement               
 resolution.  Backup material is available for all three projects,             
 and both the chancellors from the university in Anchorage and the             
 Juneau campus were available to testify.                                      
 Number 631                                                                    
 WENDY REDMAN, Vice President, Statewide University System, said the           
 chancellors are present at the meeting to provide testimony on the            
 need for housing.  However, Ms. Redman wanted to comment on a few             
 things to clarify some questions on what appears to be a more                 
 complicated procedure than necessary.                                         
 MS. REDMAN said HCR 18 is a bill that authorizes the AHFC to move             
 forward with the 3 percent housing bonds for the university.  The             
 university has been working with the AHFC for several years on a              
 variety of plans for them to involve themselves with the                      
 university's student housing provisions.  HB 309, which goes with             
 HCR 18, is an authorizing bill.  There are currently statutes which           
 require the university to get a separate authorization if it is               
 going to incur debt service in excess of one million dollars.                 
 MS. REDMAN said the housing debt will go to help pay off the 25               
 year bonds.  There may well be a third piece to put all this                  
 together.  It would probably be in the front section of the budget            
 bill if that is where the university needs it.  Ms. Redman said,              
 "That would then authorize the AHFC to extend their reserves back             
 to AHFC from their reserves back to an expenditure account, which             
 is a third piece to it."                                                      
 Number 706                                                                    
 MS. REDMAN said she also needed to point out that this bill is                
 linked absolutely to HB 281, which the HESS Committee was going to            
 hear very soon.  That bill is part of the AHFC funding for the                
 deferred maintenance of the University of Alaska.  That bill also             
 includes provisions which protect AHFC assets so that it can do the           
 kinds of projects envisioned.  Without that kind of protection of             
 AHFC's assets, the university will not be allowed to use them, nor            
 does Ms. Redman believe that it would in any way go forward with              
 approval for the student housing provisions.                                  
 MS. REDMAN wanted to make sure that HESS Committee members                    
 understood these bills; and while they may not appear to be linked            
 at this point, they are absolutely integral to each other.                    
 Number 770                                                                    
 MARSHALL LIND, Chancellor, University of Alaska Southeast, felt               
 this group of legislation was a creative way of dealing with                  
 problems at two of the Southeast campuses.  The university has been           
 trying to acquire additional housing on the Juneau campus for                 
 several years.  The university was successful this year in having             
 the Governor recognize it and include it in his capital budget.               
 The proposal that is contained in HB 309 makes sense.                         
 MR. LIND said the university has done a fiscal analysis as to                 
 whether or not it can pay, and the university feels it can.  The              
 plan for the Juneau campus has already been designed, and it will             
 be ready to go to bid in a very short time.  The university has               
 been working on that project for a number of years.  It will give             
 the campus an additional 81 beds.  Currently, there is room for               
 Number 828                                                                    
 MR. LIND said this bill also allows the University of Alaska                  
 Southeast (UAS) to make some modifications to the food service                
 area.  This will be necessary because the type of housing facility            
 UAS is proposing does not contain kitchen facilities.  It is more             
 a traditional, dormitory-type operation.  It is more traditional in           
 the sense that there will be two students to a room, and two rooms            
 share a bath.  Those rooms will not have kitchen facilities.                  
 MR. LIND said this is a good approach to meeting the problem on the           
 Juneau campus.  In terms of Ketchikan, there is $1 million                    
 containment.  The community has been working on a project in                  
 Ketchikan for close to ten years.  The community has come up with             
 a plan that it feels it can support.  It has created a nonprofit              
 housing corporation in Ketchikan involving a number of local                  
 business and finance people.                                                  
 Number 882                                                                    
 MR. LIND said this project is supported by the city mayor, the                
 borough mayor, and others in that community.  This legislation will           
 enable them to go with one of a couple of choices.  They can either           
 choose a facility that would accommodate 16 students, or possibly             
 32.  Mr. Lind believes that facility will serve that portion of               
 Southeast Alaska very effectively, especially as traffic increases            
 between Prince of Wales Island and Ketchikan as a regional center.            
 MR. LIND continued that this would help the community a great deal,           
 and the community is very strongly behind it.  Mr. Lind encouraged            
 the HESS Committee members' support for HB 309.  It is a creative             
 way of dealing with a problem.                                                
 Number 926                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that Mr. Lind stated the housing was in            
 the Governor's capital budget.  He asked why it is needed in HB
 MR. LIND suggested that perhaps the housing is not needed in HB
 309.  However, the housing is needed, one way or the other.                   
 Hopefully, it could prevail in the Governor's budget.  If it does,            
 the university would not have to borrow the money.  The bill would            
 just give the university the authority to do that.  Rather than bet           
 on one approach or the other, the university felt a strong                    
 obligation to do whatever it can to get housing for those students.           
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that those in Fairbanks feel the same              
 Number 980                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG allowed that he is from Anchorage, and he             
 has not spent much time in the community of Ketchikan.  He asked if           
 he was correct that the Ketchikan campus was, previous to the                 
 merger, part of the community college system.                                 
 MR. LIND said Representative Rokeberg was correct.  Since 1954, the           
 campus has been in operation as a community college.  Ketchikan is            
 probably one of three communities that has given annually a local             
 appropriation in support of that campus through borough tax                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked about the need of a commuter-type               
 school for housing.                                                           
 MR. LIND said there has been a changing pattern in student                    
 interest.  In addition, mobility patterns have changed to                     
 necessitate housing.  In the past few years, there has been a                 
 significant increase in the traffic between Prince of Wales Island            
 and Ketchikan.  There is also a desire on the part of a larger                
 number of students to complete the two year degree program.  In               
 particular, two year "AA" degrees are sought.                                 
 MR. LIND noted this is a change from earlier years, when students             
 were more interested in the single or occasional course.  Now, the            
 campus is experiencing more students who are serious about staying            
 and completing a two-year program.  This bill would help the entire           
 operation.  It would be particularly helpful for students who have            
 families, and are unable to either acquire or pay for some of the             
 other housing they might find in Ketchikan.                                   
 Number 1069                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked about the student enrollment at the             
 Ketchikan campus, and if the campus grants degrees other than an              
 two-year AA degree.                                                           
 MR. LIND did not know the exact figures, but he could get the                 
 numbers for Representative Rokeberg.  However, the Ketchikan campus           
 only contains the certificate programs, which are one year in                 
 duration, or the two-year AA programs.  Four-year degrees are not             
 granted at that campus.                                                       
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE had lived in Ketchikan at one time.  He said it was            
 extremely difficult to find housing in Ketchikan.                             
 Number 1125                                                                   
 LEE GORSUCH, Chancellor, University of Alaska Anchorage, said he              
 was speaking on behalf of the students who the president commissar            
 and the Board of Regents have asked him to serve.  He wanted to               
 speak particularly to his primary mission, which is to try and                
 provide high quality programs that are accessible to the students             
 who would like to pursue them.                                                
 MR. GORSUCH said it is on the accessibility question that he would            
 like to speak first.  There are four or five types of students who            
 are desperately in need of housing at the University of Alaska                
 Anchorage (UAA).  The first type of student is from somewhere else            
 around the state who would like to have an urban experience in                
 Anchorage, but their parents would not want them to come to                   
 Anchorage if, in fact, there was not some kind of protected                   
 domicile for them such as a dormitory or residence hall.                      
 MR. GORSUCH has received numerous correspondence from                         
 superintendents around the state who have said as much to him in              
 Number 1174                                                                   
 MR. GORSUCH said the second type of student is also from around the           
 state.  She or he would like to take a course that is only offered            
 at UAA.  For example, a student that would like to become a nurse             
 would utilize UAA because it offers the only four-year or graduate            
 program nursing courses.  Those students would also like to have              
 access to housing on the Anchorage campus in order to pursue their            
 careers.  That would be true in a number of other fields, whether             
 the field be special education or some other specialized programs,            
 where UAA is the only campus that offers those programs.                      
 MR. GORSUCH said there is another group of students who might, for            
 a variety of reasons not the least of which would be in the student           
 status, would be of an indigent nature.  In other words, the                  
 student does not have much money.  The students are simply in need            
 of finding some place that has affordable housing, that is                    
 reasonably safe, that doesn't require transportation.                         
 Traditionally, university dormitory housing is one of those that              
 meet that need.                                                               
 Number 1220                                                                   
 MR. GORSUCH said as the cost of education increases through raising           
 tuition, the affordability question becomes a key issue.                      
 Affordable housing is one of the issues that many students have to            
 confront.  From the university literature, HESS Committee members             
 know UAA only has 390 housing units on the campus currently.  UAA             
 is a very large, substantial campus.  This is no longer a question            
 of the small university.  UAA has 16,000 students taking courses,             
 and another 5,000 students take courses from UAA's extended sites.            
 MR. GORSUCH noted that UAA is a very significant institution.                 
 Nationally, most universities have somewhere in the vicinity of 35            
 to 50 percent of the students accommodated with housing.  UAA                 
 accommodates 2 percent.  In other words, 2 percent of UAA students            
 are afforded the opportunity of campus housing.                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY arrived at the meeting at 3:15 p.m.                   
 MR. GORSUCH continued that the fourth class of student who is                 
 interested in student housing is the student who desires an                   
 international experience.  Of the 16,000 students, even if a small            
 percentage of them wanted to have a year of study abroad or wanted            
 to have an exchange agreement in Korea, Japan, etc., the only way             
 that exchange works is if the student can offer the exchange                  
 student a place to live on the university campus.                             
 MR. GORSUCH said universities extend to UAA students the                      
 opportunity of student housing.  However, UAA has no capacity to              
 Number 1285                                                                   
 MR. GORSUCH summarized that there are a large number of students              
 who are not being served because of UAA's incapacity to offer                 
 campus housing.                                                               
 MR. GORSUCH also asked to speak on behalf of some parents with                
 school-aged children who would like to attend UAA.  Their children            
 would like to have a traditional campus life experience.  They want           
 an opportunity to have meals together, have parties together and              
 hopefully study together.  As it currently stands, UAA cannot offer           
 that opportunity, so many parents and their children do not think             
 of UAA as one of their options.  They select a university in the              
 Lower 48 if they do not pick the University of Alaska Fairbanks               
 Number 1320                                                                   
 MR. GORSUCH noted that as the cost of education increases around              
 the country, UAA is a "best buy."  However, it becomes a best buy             
 only if it meets the quality of life that students and parents are            
 looking for.  Many parents feel if they are going to finance the              
 education, they would like to have at least one fringe benefit                
 associated with the financing of their children's education.  That            
 is to get their children out of the house.                                    
 MR. GORSUCH continued that UAA has many needs.  A better library is           
 needed, and there is not enough full-time faculty relative to the             
 size of the student population.  There are many needs, and those              
 needs require hard general fund dollars.  This is a need that is              
 obvious, but the university is trying to meet its need creatively             
 through the AHFC.  The university thinks the AHFC is set up exactly           
 for these needy students.  It is an appropriate use of the Alaska             
 Housing Finance Corporation assets.                                           
 MR. GORSUCH felt the students are eligible, because in almost all             
 instances they would meet any criteria of financial need for                  
 eligibility purposes.  Most importantly, students who are in that             
 first year dormitory experience do better academically.  Their                
 grade point averages are higher because of the attendant                      
 restrictions and opportunities of a study hall and study groups.              
 Number 1403                                                                   
 MR. GORSUCH therefore noted that housing makes sense for good,                
 solid academic reasons.  He urged the support of HESS Committee               
 members, and he felt that the entire state's interest is served               
 when the legislature looks at trying to do more with less.  This              
 legislation does not solve UAA's library problem, nor does it solve           
 the faculty resource problem.  But it does increase the university            
 accessibility for students who have a need for housing.                       
 MR. GORSUCH stated the quality of the academic experience will be             
 increased for those students who have the opportunity to enter the            
 residence halls, and it is going to make a significant transforming           
 impact on the community's image and support.                                  
 Number 1438                                                                   
 MR. GORSUCH continued that what is not written is that he has                 
 pledged that he will raise $1 million in support of the project               
 itself.  It is an opportunity for the Anchorage community to come             
 forward and make a financial commitment to the growth and                     
 development of the campus.  Even though this is a small step, it is           
 a very significant step.  Symbolically, it represents a sense of              
 optimism and a future for the community in the face of all the                
 financial pressures being confronted with the decline of oil                  
 MR. GORSUCH concluded that this is a very important project for a             
 variety of reasons for the Anchorage community and UAA in                     
 particular.  He urged HESS Committee members' support.                        
 Number 1470                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE assumed from Mr. Gorsuch's comments that if UAA has            
 more housing, it is more convenient for students from outlying                
 areas to attend UAA.  That might help the state address those                 
 incredibly expensive remote campuses that suffer from a lack of               
 cost effectiveness and economies of scale.                                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked Mr. Gorsuch if the legislation passes and the           
 university system gets housing in Anchorage, Ketchikan and Juneau,            
 if every effort will be made to fill those housing units 12 months            
 out of the year.                                                              
 MR. GORSUCH said the only way the plan works financially is for 12-           
 month occupancy.  There are exciting plans for summer institutes,             
 programs that will bring high school students desiring immersion              
 experiences in language and who want to learn about Alaska Native             
 cultures.  There is a very ambitious plan to occupy this facility             
 12 months out of the year.                                                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked for assurance that the housing would not be             
 provided for free.                                                            
 MR. GORSUCH answered no,  the facilities would not be made                    
 available for free.                                                           
 Number 1519                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked if Mr. Gorsuch has contacted other                 
 campuses, and if other campuses have requested funds or expressed             
 dire need.                                                                    
 MR. GORSUCH said a fairly comprehensive survey was conducted at the           
 request of the Board of Regents.  To his knowledge, no other                  
 campuses have come forward requesting similar facilities.                     
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE was incredulous that UAF does not have any               
 housing needs.  He felt he did not quite understand.  Mr. Gorsuch             
 had said there had not been any requests from other campuses for              
 similar needs.  Representative Brice wanted to know if all the                
 campuses in the University of Alaska system were questioned, or if            
 only the campuses in the UAA system were proposed.                            
 MR. GORSUCH said the survey was done in the entire university                 
 system, but his reference was seven sites in the Anchorage area.              
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE concluded that there are, therefore, needs               
 outside of the Anchorage area.                                                
 MR. GORSUCH said he could not speak to those.                                 
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY left the meeting at 3:20 p.m.                            
 Number 1583                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Gorsuch how many on-campus rooms            
 are available now in the UAA system.                                          
 MR. GORSUCH answered 398.                                                     
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG recalled Mr. Gorsuch's mention of the 12-             
 month utilization of rooms.  Representative Rokeberg asked if he              
 had considered senior citizen seminars, etc., as possible summer              
 tenants.  He said there are many possibilities for those rooms.               
 MR. GORSUCH agreed.  He said the elder hostel-types of programs               
 around the country have indicated a very significant contribution             
 can be made to housing in the summer months.  There is also a very            
 significant opportunity to house professional conventions, whose              
 participants would also be seeking some affordable housing.  Many             
 hotels are $200 a night.  However, Mr. Gorsuch assured HESS                   
 Committee members that in all instances the conventions would be              
 for educational purposes.                                                     
 MR. GORSUCH has worked with most of the hotels in Anchorage to                
 insure that this is in no way any competition with the Anchorage              
 area visitor industry.                                                        
 Number 1631                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if campus housing would assist in the           
 recruitment of athletes to the UAA campus.                                    
 MR. GORSUCH said it helps promote the overall image of the campus             
 to offer a full program that includes some type of campus life and            
 facility.  Mr. Gorsuch could not over-emphasize the importance of             
 what happens when a resident capacity is present on the campus to             
 create an atmosphere of an intellectual community.  If one's only             
 attachment to the university is to have a parking space and a seat            
 in a classroom, the attachment will not be great.                             
 MR. GORSUCH felt campus facilities provided the opportunity to sit            
 with friends, drink coffee and have a conversation about what is              
 occurring inside the classroom.  New horizons and challenges can be           
 explored.  The athletes are certainly among those who would be                
 interested in campus housing opportunities.                                   
 Number 1688                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE understood that UAA is not considered a                  
 residential campus, and that the Board of Regents, when developing            
 the mission statements for each institution, purposefully left out            
 UAA in order to keep its focus on other things.  Representative               
 Brice's concern was why residences were being built versus                    
 libraries.  In addition, Representative Brice wanted to know if               
 there had been any discussion between the administration at UAA and           
 possibly private consortiums that develop and construct facilities            
 on campus on a type of 50-year-lease basis.  The private entity               
 would own and run the facility.                                               
 MR. GORSUCH said he would not be present at the HESS Committee                
 meeting without the express authorization of the Board of Regents.            
 Therefore, the legislation carries their full endorsement and                 
 support.  If there had been any sort of prior designation of no               
 housing, it is not the current policy, because this legislation               
 reflects their wishes.                                                        
 MR. GORSUCH then spoke to the option of building a library versus             
 a residence hall.  He said he would gladly take a library if that             
 were available.  However, a library generates no revenue to make it           
 self-supporting.  Unless Mr. Gorsuch could receive a $28 million              
 capital appropriation for the purpose of a library, this project              
 does not compete with that at all.  This is an auxiliary facility             
 in which the student rents basically retire the debt for the                  
 MR. GORSUCH also added that a model facility is proposed in the               
 sense that the expectations are that the student rents in auxiliary           
 will not only pay the mortgage, but they will also pay for the cost           
 of the residential life program.  Secondly, the rent pays for the             
 full operation, maintenance and replacement costs of the facility             
 as well.  Therefore, the way this is structured is that there will            
 be no future deferred maintenance issues associated with this                 
 facility.  It is essentially self-financed, with the interest                 
 Number 1789                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE expressed concern that UAA's proposed facility           
 was therefore competing with members of the private sector.  He               
 knows of a number of cases in various other institutions of higher            
 learning in which the university contracts out the construction,              
 operation and maintenance of these types of facilities.  The                  
 private entity also provides the same type of traditional campus              
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE feels this is a viable option, and he has been           
 pressing his administration up at UAF to study this option as well.           
 If this option is viable, and if the state is going to break even             
 on that option, Representative Brice is not sure that the state               
 could not find another entity to save the state's bonding                     
 Number 1822                                                                   
 MR. GORSUCH answered Representative Brice that he has had extensive           
 conversations with members of the hotel industry about this                   
 particular issue.  The possibility was discussed of whether or not            
 this facility could serve as a hotel in the summer and a student              
 dormitory during the nine months of the school year.  The answer              
 was no.  However, it is true that the university can find private             
 sector support for financing, somewhat conventionally, of the                 
 apartment-style houses.  These would be a seven-story structure               
 that has a whole different construction element and cost.                     
 MR. GORSUCH said from the conversations he has had with Bob Hickel,           
 Al Parish and others, the consensus is that this does not work                
 under any kind of private scenario.  However, it would work under             
 this low interest relationship for the AHFC.                                  
 MR. GORSUCH noted that subcontracting out some of the services is             
 an open issue that the university is receptive to in terms of                 
 trying to have a very cost efficient system.  The university has to           
 make money on its auxiliary services or it will not be able to                
 repay the debt.  Therefore, the university is very much receptive             
 to the idea of outsourcing or subcontracting some of these elements           
 like the food service.                                                        
 Number 1865                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked about the approximate student enrollment in             
 Anchorage.  Mr. Gorsuch answered about 16,500 as a head count.  The           
 full-time equivalent (FTE) enrollment is about 10,600.  Co-Chair              
 Toohey asked about the Fairbanks enrollment, which Mr. Gorsuch                
 answered was around 6,000 students.  Co-Chair Toohey then asked how           
 many students the Fairbanks campus can house, and the approximation           
 was 2,100.  It was again determined that UAA can house 398.                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said that times have changed since she was a                  
 graduate of UAA.  She thinks increased housing in Anchorage is                
 necessary, there is no doubt about it.                                        
 Number 1922                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the question he is trying to get answered           
 is that the Board of Regents have developed mission statements for            
 each of the three campuses.  Those mission statements do not place            
 Anchorage as being a major residential campus.  Not only that, but            
 there are private contractors that have worked out of the                     
 university system and a lot of various campuses that have built and           
 run the student housing without state assistance.                             
 MR. GORSUCH said he is unaware of any mission statement that has              
 "residential campus" in its character.                                        
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE suggested that perhaps the statements have               
 changed since 1990.                                                           
 MR. GORSUCH asserted that he would not be before the HESS Committee           
 without the authorization of the university system.                           
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE understood, and assured Mr. Gorsuch that he              
 was not implying to the contrary.                                             
 Number 1969                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he has been in the system long enough to                  
 remember that had regents originally had their way, there would not           
 have been an Anchorage campus at all.                                         
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if Ms. Redman could clarify the                 
 MS. REDMAN appreciated the comments of Representative Brice.  The             
 board's decision is clearly that Anchorage will not become                    
 primarily a residential campus.  That is not appropriate for the              
 mission right now.  However, three times the amount of housing that           
 UAA is currently seeking could be added and it would still be                 
 substantially below even what an urban university has.  The                   
 proposed housing does not bring the university anywhere close to              
 what would be available on a residential campus.                              
 MS. REDMAN said a residential campus is a campus where one would              
 expect to see 75 to 85 percent of the students in on-campus                   
 housing.  Those are the ratios that Fairbanks is looking at, as it            
 is a residential campus.  Anchorage is seeking residence halls, not           
 to turn into a residential campus.                                            
 Number 2057                                                                   
 BILL HOWE, Deputy Commissioner, Treasury Division, Department of              
 Revenue, said he was not present at the meeting to speak on the               
 merits of student housing.  He wanted to talk about the proposed              
 involvement of AHFC in the project specific to the requested                  
 subsidy and the assumption that the AHFC can raise new bond issues            
 of $36.5 million that is required to fund the program.                        
 MR. HOWE explained that for the AHFC to raise the $36.5 million, it           
 has to access the bond markets.  Bond sales at competitive and                
 attractive interest rates are a function of having the ability to             
 have the bonds rated as investment grade.  Investment grade bond              
 ratings are a function of the investment community having                     
 confidence that their bond holders will get paid back the money               
 paid for the bonds plus interest over the 25 years.                           
 Number 2111                                                                   
 MR. HOWE said it is no secret to most legislators that the AHFC has           
 been recently put on "credit watch" by one of the major bond rating           
 agencies, Standard & Poor (S&P).  S&P is evaluating the current A+            
 rating that the AHFC currently has.  That rating is well into the             
 middle range of investment grade.                                             
 MR. HOWE said Mr. Dan Fauske, who is the executive director of the            
 AHFC, has just returned from a meeting in New York with S&P.                  
 However, in summary S&P has issued a press release, effective                 
 yesterday, that it very much likes the approach in HB 281 and SB
 143 which are the Governor's effort to program, over a five-year              
 period, a transfer of capital from AHFC in an orderly manner.                 
 MR. HOWE said the total of the funds transfer will be $270 million            
 over five years, including $30 million this year.  S&P has reviewed           
 that program, and the press release says the company supports that            
 program.  The release also says that if that program is adopted,              
 S&P will take the AHFC off of credit watch and reinstate its prior            
 Number 2174                                                                   
 MR. HOWE said HCR 18, if considered outside the total scope of the            
 legislature's intent on how to deal with the AHFC simply adds fuel            
 to the fire on the part of the credit agencies in terms of                    
 increasing their apprehension that the legislature will continue to           
 drain funds out of the AHFC with no end in sight, and the interest            
 subsidy in effect, does that.  In addition, it increases the credit           
 agencies' unwillingness to consider the AHFC as having investment             
 grade bonds.                                                                  
 MR. HOWE said another example that has the attention of the rating            
 agencies is SB 40.  SB 40 will require the AHFC to transfer over an           
 18-month or 2-year period over $400 million--with no end in sight--           
 back to the general fund, leaving the bondholders exposed to some             
 degree as to their ability to get paid over such a long period of             
 TAPE 95-40, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 MR. HOWE concluded that the AHFC wants to work with the university            
 to meet the student housing needs.  There is no question about                
 that.  But in the opinion of the AHFC and the Department of                   
 Revenue, the program presented must be incorporated into the                  
 overall AHFC capital budget, grant program, subsidy program that is           
 considered at that time.  The legislature can then begin to apply             
 priorities as to how it wants to utilize the capital available to             
 housing programs, and how the student housing in Anchorage,                   
 Ketchikan and Juneau fit in.                                                  
 MR. HOWE said for AHFC to deliver the services being requested it             
 has to be financially strong.  HB 309 will not achieve that                   
 objective and will increase uncertainty.                                      
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE interjected that if the goose that lays the golden             
 eggs is killed, "there won't be much for omelets."                            
 Number 109                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked what the bank balance was of the AHFC at the            
 MR. HOWE answered that the AHFC has approximately $700 million in             
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said it is very understandable that the AHFC is on            
 a credit watch, because there are no restrictions on what the                 
 legislature can take.  The AHFC could be done away with today, and            
 ten dollars could be left in the bank account.  However, that would           
 be extremely foolish.  Co-Chair Toohey asked how taking $270                  
 million out of the AHFC and putting it into the general fund will             
 benefit the housing projects.  That would not benefit the housing             
 projects in the state.                                                        
 MR. HOWE said that is up to how the legislature wishes to allocate            
 the general funds.                                                            
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if, in Mr. Howe's opinion, bonding was not a            
 better way.                                                                   
 MR. HOWE said bonding is certainly a better way to go in terms of             
 funding programs.  Generally, he concluded, that is true.  The AHFC           
 has the ability to raise money at attractive interest rates because           
 of their bond rating.  That basically leverages their capital to be           
 able to deliver more programs to more people.                                 
 Number 222                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if the Governor's office and S&P would be               
 satisfied if the legislature attached to HB 309 the ability to only           
 take out $36.5 million plus another $20 million from AHFC a year.             
 She said that would be the limit that can be taken out of the AHFC            
 each year.  She asked if that would make the Governor's office and            
 S&P happy because there is a limit on what the legislature can take           
 from that account.                                                            
 MR. HOWE said the Governor's office believes that the AHFC can                
 transfer to the general fund $70 million this year, and $50 million           
 for the next four years to help balance the budget without                    
 impairing the ability of the AHFC to raise money through bond sales           
 and having an investment grade.  S&P in New York has reviewed that            
 program and has endorsed it.  Therefore, to the degree that the               
 legislature only wants to take out $36.5 versus $70 million would             
 appeal to the bondholders, but the Governor's office would probably           
 say that more can be done to cover the budget gap.                            
 Number 317                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG understood that the legislature needs to              
 have a plan for its desire to reach into the balance sheets of the            
 AHFC.  The legislature needs to look into the many programs that              
 are before it.  Representative Rokeberg felt that Mr. Howe was                
 saying that all those programs have to fit together in such a                 
 manner so he would be comfortable with this particular bill.                  
 MR. HOWE said that is correct.                                                
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if it was somewhat difficult, in his            
 opinion, to look at the bill discretely without looking at the big            
 MR. HOWE was saying that the AHFC can lose its bond rating through            
 1,000 cuts as opposed to just a major withdrawal.                             
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG surmised that it would be Mr. Howe's                  
 recommendation if HB 309 is passed by the legislature, that the               
 legislators should listen to the Governor's recommendation about              
 the ability to access the equity of the AHFC in the future.                   
 MR. HOWE said Representative Rokeberg was correct.                            
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said therefore, bonds will be sold on a               
 separate issue, rather than being part of a major package, like a             
 larger, $100 million-type AHFC housing bond.  Representative                  
 Rokeberg asked if the bonds would be discrete, stand-alone bonds.             
 MR. HOWE answered that he believed there would be a separate issue,           
 and it would be a specific side.                                              
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if there would be a higher rate of              
 interest than otherwise because of that.  In other words, a lower             
 gross value of the bond face, vis-a-vis the totality.                         
 MR. HOWE said the AHFC has issued over its 20-year life span $9               
 billion of bonds, of which $2 billion are outstanding.  Therefore,            
 Mr. Howe does not believe this one issue would affect it one way or           
 another.  It would be rated primarily on the general obligation               
 merits of AHFC, since the AHFC is required in this program to                 
 subsidize the loan repayment.                                                 
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if Mr. Howe was saying he did not               
 think it would have a negative impact on the interest rate level              
 because this would be a smaller, stand-alone issue in the total               
 MR. HOWE agreed.                                                              
 Number 510                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said Mr. Howe has been talking about the                 
 AHFC's bond rating.  He asked if there has not been a whole string            
 of ratings.  He asked if the state was worried about losing the               
 ability to bond altogether, or if the fear was losing the AHFC                
 rating at a certain level.                                                    
 MR. HOWE said there was concern about two issues.  One is losing              
 rating on existing bonds.  Bondholders who hold $2 billion on AHFC            
 paper, bought at a certain price predicated on the "double A" or              
 "single A" rating depending on the type of issue.  They can sell              
 those bonds.  There is a market because of the rating.  If the                
 rating is withdrawn because of the uncertainty about the AHFC                 
 future as Co-Chair Toohey pointed out, in all likelihood, unless              
 this issue is resolved or if some of these other bills are passed,            
 as well as HB 309, and AHFC loses its bond rating, those                      
 bondholders then can not sell the bonds for the same basic price              
 paid regardless of the interest rate.                                         
 MR. HOWE said the liquidity for the ability to sell into an open              
 market disappears.  The bonds can only be sold on a private                   
 placement basis.                                                              
 Number 585                                                                    
 MR. HOWE said a second issue is that for new issues, the lower your           
 rating, the higher the interest rate to compensate for the risk.              
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE felt that if HESS Committee members choose to pass             
 HB 309 and HCR 18, it places additional emphasis on the fact that             
 the House is willing to accept the other Governor's bills.                    
 Number 638                                                                    
 JACK DALTON, President, Union of Students, University of Alaska               
 Anchorage, said he has come down to Juneau three times attempting             
 to get funding for housing.  Each time, however, he has been turned           
 down because the state of the economy and expenditure cutbacks.               
 However, this time the Union of Students is more optimistic. The              
 388 students living on-campus currently were very excited about               
 that aspect.  Those students are willing to do almost anything to             
 convince HESS Committee members that more student housing is a                
 great idea.                                                                   
 MR. DALTON said the 600 students on the waiting list for university           
 housing each year feel the same way.  Mr. Dalton offered the                  
 assistance of the Union of Students to the HESS Committee members             
 in getting the bill through or asking for money somehow.                      
 Number 723                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG assured Mr. Dalton that the legislature               
 holds many friends of UAA, and that he is a former faculty member             
 of UAA.  Representative Rokeberg supports the Union of Students and           
 the plea for student housing.                                                 
 Number 752                                                                    
 HEATH HILYARD, Legislative Affairs Director for the Associated                
 Students, University of Alaska Fairbanks, said the Associated                 
 Students support HB 309 and HCR 18.  There has been much discussion           
 with colleagues in Anchorage.  Mr. Hilyard said that he has, for              
 the last four years, been living on a campus with a large degree of           
 student housing.  He can therefore understand what kind of                    
 community it builds, and how important campus housing can be in               
 establishing a strong university community as is spoken to in HCR
 MR. HILYARD said he wanted it to be known that the students of UAF            
 do not feel threatened by UAA's possible acquisition of housing,              
 and they support the idea.                                                    
 Number 813                                                                    
 CHRISTINA BROLLINI, Senator, Union of Students, University of                 
 Alaska Anchorage, reiterated that there is a desperate need for               
 housing.  There are approximately 1,000 students each year that are           
 turned away due to housing shortages.  In addition, the UAA library           
 is very important to the university students.  The students have              
 created a $5.00 fee which will generate $85,000 per semester to               
 fund the library.  Therefore, she assured HESS Committee members              
 that the students realize that they need to start contributing to             
 university projects, and the library is a main concern.                       
 MS. BROLLINI assured HESS Committee members that students are                 
 putting in their share.  The housing is needed, and she strongly              
 encouraged HESS Committee members to support this legislation.                
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. Brollini to take the message back to the             
 Union of Students that he is impressed that the students are                  
 willing to assess themselves for the library.                                 
 Number 891                                                                    
 DAVID WALKER, Chairman, Rules Committee, Union of Students,                   
 University of Alaska Anchorage, voiced his support and the support            
 of the student body for this legislation.  He asked HESS Committee            
 members to remember that this housing will not simply provide 600             
 beds.  It will provide a community to the student body in                     
 MR. WALKER noted that when students choose where they want to go to           
 college, they do not really look at mission statements, etc.  Mr.             
 Walker can personally attest to the need for student housing, as he           
 is currently on the waiting list for housing this fall.  He said it           
 is very difficult to obtain university housing. It has been very              
 hard for him to plan out his academic future because he does not              
 know where he is going to be living.  He has lived both on and off-           
 campus, and he felt that living on campus is definitely better.               
 MR. WALKER reiterated the comments of Chancellor Gorsuch that a               
 student's grades are enhanced, as is their participation in                   
 extracurricular activities, when they live on-campus.  This is an             
 issue that the faculty, students and administration are standing              
 together on, and he requested HESS Committee members' support.                
 Number 971                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked about rents charged by UAA for                  
 MR. WALKER said the charge for an entire semester is about $1,050.            
 That is just for the room.  A dining facility will accompany the              
 new housing complex, and that facility is also desperately needed.            
 Such a complex breathes life into the social atmosphere.  Mr.                 
 Walker said any college student knows that half of your education             
 is from the classroom, and the other half is from interacting with            
 peers and discussing what has been learned.                                   
 Number 1043                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony on HB 309 and HCR 18.  He              
 was not optimistic that the dorms will pay for themselves, and he             
 is certainly not optimistic that the food service will be well-               
 attended.  However, he said those feelings are from his past                  
 experiences, and he is willing to let the current UAA students                
 prove him wrong.  He asked for the wishes of the committee.                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY moved HB 309 and HCR 18 to the next committee of              
 referral with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal              
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE objected.  He said that considering that this            
 piece of legislation was just introduced last week, and that the              
 more substantive issue of addressing the needs of the whole                   
 University of Alaska system as embodied in the Governor's bills of            
 HB 282 and HB 281 were introduced about one month ago and those               
 bills have not even received their first hearing, Representative              
 Brice felt the HESS Committee was getting ahead of itself.                    
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said that, combined with the testimony from              
 the Department of Revenue causes him grave concern that without               
 further advancement of the Governor's legislation, the legislature            
 will be jeopardizing a great resource within the state.                       
 Number 1163                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said if he could find any alternative method             
 of funding, something that has an opportunity to pay for itself, he           
 would certainly do it.  He felt this legislation was a great                  
 attempt, although it is probably not full-proof, and he supports              
 this approach.                                                                
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he shares part of the concern of                 
 Representative Brice about the financing mechanism in the AHFC.               
 Representative Rokeberg felt it would be very imprudent for this              
 bill to reach the floor of the House without the other funding                
 bills being in place or having been debated through the system of             
 the floor.                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG noted that he is a "super UAA Seawolf fan             
 and season ticket holder," and he would hate to have to vote                  
 against this bill.  However, without the additional bills, he may             
 be put in that position.  Other than that, the support for UAS and            
 the UAA campus he supports 100 percent.                                       
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said however, he has significant qualms               
 about allotting a million dollars for the Ketchikan campus.  He is            
 not sure how many students are there, and he is not sure that 32 or           
 even 16 students would be more than 2 percent for Ketchikan.  He is           
 not certain that a case has been made, but he is not from                     
 Ketchikan.  There is no question in his mind about the housing                
 needs of UAA.  However, he does not feel a case has been made for             
 the Ketchikan campus.  Therefore, he asked to introduce an                    
 amendment that would delete that provision.                                   
 Number 1273                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON objected and a roll call vote was taken.              
 Voting "yes" on the amendment was Representative Rokeberg.  Voting            
 "no" were Co-Chair Bunde, Co-Chair Toohey, Representative Robinson,           
 Representative Brice, and Representative Davis.  The amendment                
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE called for the vote on HB 309.  Voting "yes" were              
 Co-Chair Bunde, Co-Chair Toohey, Representative Rokeberg,                     
 Representative Davis, and Representative Robinson.  Voting "no" was           
 Representative Brice.  The bill passed out of committee.                      
 Number 1340                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON understood that HB 281 has been assigned to           
 the HESS Committee.  She assumed that the co-chairs understood the            
 importance of hearing the bills quickly as HB 309 had just been               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE acknowledged her concern, and assured her they would           
 be addressed.  He asked for the pleasure of the committee regarding           
 HCR 18.                                                                       
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS moved HCR 18 from the HESS Committee with                
 individual recommendations.  Representative Brice objected.                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if the resolution was necessary                 
 because of the bonding appropriation.  Co-Chair Bunde indicated               
 that he was correct.                                                          
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said his only objection to the movement of HCR           
 is the same as his objection to HB 309.  He then withdrew his                 
 objection, and HCR 18 passed the HESS Committee.                              
 Number 1457                                                                   
 CHANCY CROFT, Attorney, provided a short statement as a candidate             
 for the University of Alaska Board of Regents.  He said the                   
 university has a great challenge in front of it to maintain                   
 academic excellence while offering education to a wide variety of             
 people over tremendous geographic distances.  He sees the                     
 university from the perspective of a consumer.  He is not a                   
 professional educator or an administrator.  He has attended quite             
 a few classes at UAA and Mat-Su.                                              
 MR. CROFT said he was particularly concerned about the change that            
 is going to occur in all universities over the next few years.  He            
 felt universities were going to change from educating primarily               
 teen-agers and young adults to giving a second education to a lot             
 of adults.  Some people have to change jobs several times within              
 their lifetime.  Universities are going to therefore be educating             
 adults.  That is going to call for different techniques and                   
 approaches, and will provide some exciting opportunities for                  
 MR. CROFT asked to show HESS Committee members something he found             
 in a book about the best colleges and universities regarding                  
 community colleges in Texas.  There are some innovative programs at           
 those colleges, and they are finding that when college programs are           
 adapted to what is happening with the economy, some pretty exciting           
 things can occur.  As a matter of fact, he and Joe Thomas, the                
 other candidate for the Board of Regents, are going to take credit            
 for the fact that they are just now attending their first board               
 meeting, and they appreciate being scheduled by the HESS Committee            
 members so they can appear before the committee at the same time.             
 Number 1559                                                                   
 MR. CROFT said today at his fist meeting, Prince William Sound                
 Community College presented three new career offerings for two-year           
 degree programs.  The school plans to graduate about 120 people a             
 year in three different areas.                                                
 MR. CROFT also wanted to mention that he has a long-time                      
 involvement with the community college system in Anchorage.  In               
 fact, his wife is a professor at the university.  She recently                
 became the head of the developmental education department.  He                
 accepted the decision of the voters made (although he disagreed               
 with it) about the structure in 1988.  Mr. Croft wanted to make               
 sure, regardless of the structure, that the mission, the ideals and           
 the opportunities of the community colleges are not lost as                   
 academic excellence is emphasized throughout the entire university.           
 Number 1611                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said she was heartsick when community colleges were           
 done away with.  She was a registered nurse who graduated from a              
 community college, and she feels an educational niche was lost when           
 that happened.                                                                
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said she is aware of a problem that occurred in               
 Fairbanks.  UAF was usurping a private enterprise policy, and was             
 in competition with private enterprise in the community.  That was            
 addressed three times, and three times the problem was ignored.               
 She wanted to make very sure that the university does not compete             
 with private enterprise at any level.  She wanted the candidates to           
 be aware of that because it is a problem, and she does not want to            
 see a lawsuit happen.                                                         
 Number 1673                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON suggested that Mr. Croft visit the                    
 Whitehorse community college system.  Many of their programs are              
 clearly directed toward what is happening in the economy also.                
 That system also has an excellent program of mobile units.  For               
 example, students from rural communities who wish to be health care           
 providers can receive schooling and then go back to their                     
 community.  A mobile unit then follows the student.                           
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON also asked if Mr. Croft had a chance to               
 visit the UAS campus.                                                         
 MR. CROFT noted that he has spoken to Chancellor Lind about                   
 visiting the campus, and they are hoping he has the chance to do              
 Number 1729                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Croft if he had played hockey               
 MR. CROFT answered that Representative Rokeberg was an excellent              
 hockey player, but over the last few years he may have lost some of           
 his speed and aim.  Representative Rokeberg may find that                     
 discouraging.  However, Mr. Croft said that he, personally, was               
 "uniformly lousy."  Therefore, he takes satisfaction in stating               
 that he is every bit as good as he ever was.                                  
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he is pleased to hear Mr. Croft's                
 comments about the university system.  He said if there is any way            
 the legislature can help the regents in rectifying the problems               
 caused by consolidation, Mr. Croft may elicit his help.                       
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG wished Mr. Croft well, and noted that any             
 future mission statements drafted by the Board of Regents should              
 not try to isolate the UAA campus, as has been done for a number of           
 decades.  Representative Rokeberg is concerned about some of the              
 policies he has heard about in the meeting.  He expressed                     
 confidence that Mr. Croft would represent his community fairly.               
 Number 1821                                                                   
 JOE J. THOMAS, Business Manager/Secretary-Treasurer, Laborers'                
 Local 942, basically sees the university as probably one of the               
 greatest assets of the state of Alaska.  Through proper use and               
 guidance in a state with so much potential for development, Mr.               
 Thomas sees the university as an integral part of the state.                  
 MR. THOMAS recalled a discussion about how close the university is            
 in assessing job needs in industry, and working with industry                 
 representatives and students to make sure students get a useful               
 education.  Students must have the prospect of a job at the other             
 end of their education.                                                       
 MR. THOMAS said that was, in a nutshell, his concern.  The                    
 University of Alaska system is a broad subject to speak on, and               
 hopefully people can get away from individual interests and                   
 concerns and do what is best for the people and students of the               
 state.  Alaska is broad and diverse.  Alaska must deal with                   
 situations that are very different from experiences in the rest of            
 the United States.  The community college system was, and should be           
 again an integral part of the university.  He believes the                    
 university can move forward in a reasonable manner to take care of            
 most needs.                                                                   
 Number 1887                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY noted that the university is a land-grant                     
 university.  She asked if it will be, at any time, the regents'               
 responsibility to help select some allocated land.                            
 MS. REDMAN noted that legislation has not yet been passed.                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if the regents at any time will have the                
 responsibility or any input into that selection.                              
 MS. REDMAN answered yes, absolutely.                                          
 Number 1925                                                                   
 MR. CROFT stated the Board of Regents can also set the policy about           
 the land as well.  He noted that there is some disposal of land               
 that is being reviewed as a result of the oil spill.                          
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said that is the background for her question.  She            
 asked if either Mr. Croft or Mr. Thomas had any "heartburn" about             
 disposing, developing, cutting or mining the university's land.               
 MR. THOMAS said the only concerns he would have would regard a                
 community that may have some objections to what the university may            
 be doing with its land.  At least in his case, he would add that              
 sensitivity to the board to make sure the board was not considering           
 the surrounding community.  Mr. Thomas conceded that may slow down            
 the process in some people's minds.  However, to actively                     
 accomplish long-term goals and keep the university in good standing           
 with various communities, that is a necessary process.                        
 MR. CROFT said he graduated from one of the wealthiest land grant             
 colleges in America.  The first year he was a student, it was                 
 necessary to amend legislation to increase the range of investments           
 from the University of Texas trust lands.  He found it interesting            
 he was working on this type of legislation as a regent.  But he               
 believes in land grant colleges, not for the preservation of land             
 for parks, but because the land produces revenue.                             
 Number 1996                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY just wanted to make sure that neither Mr. Thomas              
 nor Mr. Croft were "preservists."  Neither are.                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that a better term is "conservationist."           
 Number 2022                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Croft and Mr. Thomas what they                       
 philosophically and physically envision for the future.                       
 MR. THOMAS answered that he perceives the university as being one             
 of the primary sources of education for the purposes of development           
 in Alaska.  He believes in higher education as being more than                
 doctoral degrees.  He understands the need for vocational                     
 instruction, and he supports that.  He hopes the university will              
 continue to move in that direction.  He sees the university as                
 being an integral part of the development of the state of Alaska              
 and its future.                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said part of the basis of his question regards the             
 physical plant and the expenses of having a university entity in              
 all the far corners of the state.  Co-Chair Bunde asked if Mr.                
 Thomas had any type of vision in that area.                                   
 MR. THOMAS said that was a tough question, probably one the                   
 university has struggled with and the Board of Regents has wavered            
 on.  He certainly believes that the university should try and keep            
 education close to the communities.  Education is unsuccessful if             
 it tries to remove people from the far-flung reaches of the state             
 to bring them into a center.  It does not appear to work very well            
 in some cases (at least, that is what he is led to believe at this            
 MR. THOMAS said therefore, although expense is certainly something            
 that needs to be taken into consideration, the rural college                  
 program is important.  How it is administered, what it covers,                
 etc., is certainly a subject of study to make sure the college is             
 not training in areas that will not provide work.  Mr. Thomas is              
 very concerned that the university educate people with useful                 
 MR. THOMAS felt more sophistication was needed in the process of              
 what the university is trying to accomplish.  Mr. Thomas felt that            
 rural campuses were necessary, and he supports the rural campus               
 Number 2144                                                                   
 MR. CROFT supported the rural campus theory, but he thinks the                
 rural campus education can be accomplished without a heavy emphasis           
 on the facilities.  Most parents are worried that their children              
 learn more from television than they do in the classroom.  It is a            
 mistake for the regents to be preoccupied with classroom education            
 throughout Alaska where there are obviously communities where those           
 classrooms cannot be built.  It would also be a mistake to ignore             
 the possibilities of television, computers or follow-up learning              
 through mobile units and other methods.                                       
 MR. CROFT stressed that those options must be utilized because                
 facilities cannot be built.                                                   
 Number 2175                                                                   
 MR. CROFT said secondly, the university must use the existing                 
 facilities.  The whole community college structure was very able to           
 respond to the needs of the community because it was in the                   
 community.  It was using the high schools, the junior highs and the           
 existing community facilities.  In that way, contact was maintained           
 with the community, and the school became more responsive to the              
 community when using community facilities.                                    
 MR. CROFT said the university does not have to equate building                
 facilities everywhere educational opportunity is desired.  Frankly,           
 that line of thinking must be avoided if the university is going to           
 provide the maximum opportunity that people deserve.                          
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he has just gone through an assessment process            
 of all the branches of the university.   He commends the branches             
 for their effort; self-examination is not always fun.  Part of one            
 of the facets of that was productivity.  A number of students in              
 the classroom and the hands-on experience from various teaching               
 entities provides a new view of the assessment process and goals,             
 and a view on productivity.                                                   
 Number 2233                                                                   
 MR. THOMAS said he did not study the process, and he has heard only           
 briefly about it at some of the meetings.  He does not want to seem           
 uninformed, but he is not so sure, without looking at the process,            
 that the program assessment was definitely budget driven.  He also            
 has some concern about where the centers of learning might be, and            
 that there might be some skewed statistics that were interpreted in           
 a certain way.                                                                
 MR. THOMAS reiterated that he had not taken a close look at the               
 process.  He acknowledged that it is a large and sophisticated                
 study, so it will take some review.  However, he plans to look at             
 the study.  He was concerned that oversimplification of statistics            
 may cause people to come up with some findings that might not be              
 accurate or might not be advantageous to communities.  A study may            
 be conducted which indicates that some programs should be cut even            
 though other factors, perhaps qualitative, have not been                      
 Number 2288                                                                   
 MR. CROFT felt the evaluation was a good idea, but he was a little            
 concerned that the data was not uniform.  Therefore, the figures              
 retrieved from one campus were not comparable to another.  That may           
 be what Mr. Thomas was alluding to in his concerns.  However, Mr.             
 Croft felt the idea of the study was good.                                    
 MR. CROFT felt there was a problem with the evaluation, however.              
 He remembers that former Alaska Governor Hammond had an efficiency            
 in government commission.  The recommendations of the commission              
 was referenced in 1977 in the budget.  By 1988, no one spoke of the           
 recommendations anymore.  Those recommendations were lost.  That is           
 the problem with evaluations.  The organization must keep going               
 back over them every time to make sure they are implemented.                  
 MR. CROFT felt that frankly, the tuition increase is the biggest              
 indication of what has happened in the last six months.  Mr. Croft            
 wanted to make sure it was not the only indication.   He felt the             
 students are going to pay their fair share, but the other side of             
 that is those recommendations have to be implemented.  Mr. Croft              
 was worried that, unless those recommendations are constantly                 
 revisited, they will fade away.                                               
 TAPE 95-40, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 066                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked for Mr. Croft's perception of productivity,              
 where it is and where it should be.                                           
 MR. CROFT said there were several questions concerning                        
 compensation, tenure and productivity which were most difficult to            
 wrestle with.  Those issues are on the agenda for the next six                
 months.  However, he thinks that productivity varies widely across            
 the board.  It is something that must be addressed.                           
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE commented that when talking about productivity           
 it is very important to look not only at credit hours taught, but             
 also to look at relevant research brought to the institution.  He             
 also asked Mr. Thomas and Mr. Croft to consider the importance of             
 the research that the University of Alaska system provides.                   
 Number 145                                                                    
 MR. THOMAS agreed the research is very important.  In addition, the           
 university must study who it produced and what they are doing six             
 months after graduation as far as employment.  That is crucial.               
 Just cranking out numbers is not the answer.  Cranking out numbers            
 that can be successfully employed somewhere is probably the most              
 important thing.  The research that brings that about and causes it           
 to happen shows that this is the direction one needs to go, even              
 though the direction may change.                                              
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said when looking at the university system,           
 people have a tendency to focus on the single student, not the                
 married student or the single mother with a child/children.  She              
 asked how Mr. Thomas and Mr. Croft felt about on-site child care              
 centers and the need to make sure that those elements are part of             
 the university system.                                                        
 MR. CROFT felt it was very important.  Recognition of the non-                
 single student on the university's part, as an older and older                
 population of students enroll, is crucial.                                    
 Number 250                                                                    
 MR. THOMAS agreed with Mr. Croft.  There is a segment of the                  
 population that is looking toward education or re-education.  Many            
 of those students are now in their 40s and 50s, looking for a                 
 different or better career (or employment to begin with).  Those              
 people need different service than the typical single student who             
 is 19-years-old and "fancy-free."                                             
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE thanked Mr. Croft and Mr. Thomas, and read a                   
 statement.  He read, "Our action here does not reflect any intent             
 by any member to vote for or against these individuals during any             
 further sessions for the purpose of confirmation."  He then asked             
 for the wish of the committee.                                                
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE passed the confirmation of the two Board of              
 Regents members onto the full body of the House.  There were no               
 objections, and the names passed.                                             
 HB 229 - PROHIBIT LOUD VEHICLE SOUND SYSTEMS                                
 Number 429                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG, sponsor of the bill, said that noise is a            
 form of pollution and a potential health hazard.  He felt the bill            
 should be approved based on the fact that it endeavors to alleviate           
 that problem in one instance.                                                 
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked to speak to the bill as someone who was                  
 trained as a speech and hearing therapist.  He is well aware of the           
 damage that excessive noise can and has done to many people.  He              
 felt much noise damage is self-inflicted by young people at times.            
 He also mentioned the psychological irritation due to excessive               
 noise.  He felt this bill was a good measure for protecting young             
 people and protecting the sanity of the older people.                         
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked about the penalties for violating the                   
 provisions of the bill, and who is going to police the provisions.            
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the bill provides for an infraction              
 only.  It would be enforced by the state police and the law                   
 enforcement agencies of the various jurisdictions.  The Anchorage             
 Municipal Police Department has a municipal code already                      
 prohibiting this type of infraction.                                          
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY noted the sponsor statement says that the violation           
 of this provision is an infraction not considered a criminal                  
 offense and does not add points against the person's driving                  
 record.  She asked what the provision does to stop this behavior.             
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said it was a function of the state                   
 statute.  The state statute stipulates that there only be a fine up           
 to $300--that is the provision for infraction under Alaska Statute.           
 Representative Rokeberg said the alternative would have been to               
 create a misdemeanor offense, and Representative Rokeberg did not             
 feel that was appropriate.                                                    
 Number 638                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said he did not have a problem with the bill,            
 although he felt the reasons for the bill may be wrong.  He has not           
 heard any of these sound systems that are louder than most other              
 things one runs into throughout the community.  However, he thinks            
 the issue is one of insensitivity.  The excess noise is a nuisance.           
 In addition, Representative Davis felt that those who install the             
 systems also need to be penalized.  Those who install systems, just           
 as those who don't adequately tune up automobiles for their proper            
 emissions, can get their licenses taken away.  That is an issue               
 that also needs to be addressed at some time.                                 
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG ventured to say that the first amendment              
 does not extend to installers.  He did not think the amendment                
 would be possible to extend.                                                  
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said perhaps the problem would cure itself.  If                
 there was no demand, they would be no supply.                                 
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said he has a car with a stock radio in it.              
 He cannot tell if it is being heard outside the car or not.  He               
 asked how one would be able to tell if their sound system was                 
 "offensive."    He asked if "audible" meant right next to the car,            
 or 5 feet from the car, or 25-feet from the car.  He asked for                
 discussion on those topics.                                                   
 Number 817                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG noted for the information of the committee            
 that a review of the various statutes throughout the country and a            
 number of states that have similar statutes have provided                     
 information that is being used by the sponsor of the bill.  He is             
 working on an appropriate amendment to overcome this grey area when           
 the bill reaches Judiciary.  Representative Rokeberg said he is               
 attempting to gather some empirical evidence to determine between             
 a 50 and 100 foot radius as opposed to the other measurements of              
 sound that can be utilized.                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE suggested wording to the effect of "audible outside            
 a car that causes a public disturbance."  If someone is driving by            
 50 feet away and the ground is shaking, that is a problem.                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if Representative Rokeberg had considered               
 mentioning if the window of the vehicle was open or closed.  Co-              
 Chair Toohey sometimes cranks up her stereo on the highway.  She              
 stated that this was somewhat different than those who drive                  
 through neighborhoods causing a disturbance.  If the window is                
 closed and the car is moving, the noise is not bothering her.  It             
 may be damaging the car owner's hearing, but it is not bothering              
 her.  When the windows are open, then it bothers her.                         
 Number 927                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said her point was well taken, and that is            
 why the radius was being researched.  Representative Rokeberg seeks           
 to provide a standard of reasonableness.  There is no intent to               
 inhibit the utilization of any sound system.  It is only when it              
 becomes a nuisance that he seeks to curb the problem.  In addition,           
 there are certain situations in which emergency vehicles cannot be            
 heard due to the noise from the car next to you.  In certain urban            
 areas, this can be a real problem.                                            
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG also looks at this bill as another tool of            
 law enforcement.  The significant gang activities in Anchorage may            
 allow the law enforcement agencies to investigate probable cause              
 for enforcement.  The main thing, however, is the noise.  This is             
 a "neighborhood friendly" bill.  Representative Rokeberg assured              
 HESS Committee members that the bill was going to be modified in              
 the Judiciary Committee to alleviate concerns.                                
 Number 989                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she was curious.  She was somewhat               
 incredulous that there was not anything on the books regarding                
 noise pollution.  She knew of cases in which police visit houses              
 only because children are playing their stereos or their bands too            
 loud.  Those individuals are ticketed for noise pollution.  She               
 felt the HESS Committee members and the legislature have more                 
 important things to do.                                                       
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON did not feel the issue was in need of                 
 legislation.  She felt the police, with already existing laws,                
 could act if a problem was evident.                                           
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded that Americans spend literally              
 billions of dollars each year to try and abate noise.  Noise is               
 scientifically recognized as being a pollution problem.  Then                 
 someone thinks he/she has a right to install a thousand dollar                
 speaker system in their automobile and disturb the peace.  That is            
 not right.                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY noted that Anchorage has its own ordinance.                   
 Therefore, she asked if the scope of the bill would not include               
 Anchorage, as the state police do not cover Anchorage.  Anchorage             
 is covered by the municipal police.  She asked if there are other             
 cities within Alaska that have similar laws on their books.                   
 SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant, Representative Rokeberg's           
 office, said she checked with the Juneau Police Department, and               
 Juneau does not have a vehicle noise ordinance like the city of               
 Anchorage does.  Juneau has a nuisance/disturbance noise provision.           
 That is a misdemeanor.  Therefore, the problem would have to be               
 pretty prevalent in order for the police to intervene.                        
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if Ms. Armstrong checked with Fairbanks, and            
 she answered no.                                                              
 MS. ARMSTRONG said a resident of Kotzebue called in favor of the              
 bill.  When Ms. Armstrong asked if this type of "noise pollution"             
 was a problem in Kotzebue, the person said no, not yet.                       
 Number 1160                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said in discussions with contract jails, it              
 has been discovered that city cops around the state are arresting             
 people under state law, and it is the state's responsibility to pay           
 for all that.  Every city, except Anchorage, in the state of Alaska           
 that has a police department and arrests people does so under state           
 law.  HB 229 creates yet another state law.  Representative Davis             
 did not have a problem with that, as what is going to have to                 
 happen is an automatic conversion to all state laws.  Local                   
 municipalities are going to have to start covering the costs, and             
 let their police make arrests.  Then it would be that                         
 municipality's arrests and court costs, to a degree.                          
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said the $6 million figure that is currently             
 being paid out needs to be considered.  If municipalities can                 
 handle these issues on their own, the legislature needs to make               
 sure they have that opportunity.  However, again Representative               
 Davis said he did not have a problem with this bill as it is very             
 inconsiderate of people to have obnoxious sound systems.                      
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated for the record, "If it's too loud,                
 you're too old."  Co-Chair Bunde said "Amen."                                 
 Number 1243                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS moved HB 229 from committee with individual              
 recommendations and accompanying fiscal notes.  There were no                 
 objections and the bill moved.                                                
 Number 1263                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE adjourned the meeting at 4:45 p.m.                             

Document Name Date/Time Subjects