Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/04/1995 02:05 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                         April 4, 1995                                         
                           2:05 p.m.                                           
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
 Representative Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                       
 Representative Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                            
 Representative Al Vezey                                                       
 Representative Caren Robinson                                                 
 Representative Tom Brice                                                      
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
 Representative Gary Davis                                                     
 Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
 SB 68:      "An Act relating to the donation to a food bank of                
             hatchery salmon, to the donation of food by meat                  
             processors, seafood processors, manufacturers,                    
             packers, processors, bottlers, and similar entities,              
             and to who qualifies as a food bank."                             
             PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
 SB 39:      "An Act relating to memorial scholarship loans; and               
             providing for an effective date."                                 
             PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
 SB 27:      "An Act relating to child visitation rights of                    
             grandparents and other persons who are not parents of             
             the child."                                                       
             PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
 * HB 222:   "An Act allowing a local bidder preference in certain             
             contracts for school construction."                               
             SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                           
 HB 104:     "An Act relating to disclosures of information about              
             certain minors."                                                  
             PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
 JANET OGAN, Legislative Secretary                                             
 Senator Loren Leman's Office                                                  
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol Building, Room 113                                              
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2095                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided sponsor statement for SB 68.                    
 JACK DOYLE, Executive Director                                                
 Food Bank of Alaska                                                           
 2121 Spar Avenue                                                              
 Anchorage, AK  99501                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 272-3663                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 68.                           
 RAY GILLESPIE, Lobbyist                                                       
 Representing four aquaculture associations and hatcheries                     
 2 Marine Way                                                                  
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 463-3375                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 68.                           
 JOE AMBROSE, Legislative Assistant                                            
 Senator Robin Taylor's Office                                                 
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol Building, Room 30                                               
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3873                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided sponsor statement for SB 39.                    
 THOMAS PANAMAROFF, Legislative Assistant                                      
 Senator Fred Zharoff's Office                                                 
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol Building, Room 121                                              
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3472                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 39.                           
 JAMES ARMSTRONG, Legislative Researcher                                       
 Senator David Donley's Office                                                 
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol Building, Room 11                                               
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3892                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided sponsor statement for SB 27.                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS                                                      
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol Building, Room 400                                              
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2199                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 27.                                      
 ROD MOURANT, Administrative Assistant                                         
 Representative Pete Kott's Office                                             
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol Building, Room 432                                              
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3777                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided sponsor statement for HB 104.                   
 MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General                                      
 Criminal Law Division                                                         
 Department of Law                                                             
 Court Building, Room 717                                                      
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3428                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 104.                                     
 MARGARET BERCK, Attorney                                                      
 Representative of the American Civil Liberties Union                          
 227 7th Street                                                                
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 789-0384                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 104.                                
 DENNIS GREGORY, Teacher                                                       
 Butte Elementary School; and Member,                                          
 Juvenile Violence Task Force, Mat-Su Valley                                   
 P.O. Box 3804                                                                 
 Palmer, AK  99645                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 746-0199                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 104.                          
 LEE ANN LUCAS, Special Assistant to Commissioner Otte                         
 Department of Public Safety                                                   
 P.O. Box 111200                                                               
 Juneau, AK  99811-1200                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4322                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 104.                                     
 ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant to Commissioner Perdue                     
 Department of Health and Social Services                                      
 Alaska Office Building, Room 229                                              
 350 Main Street                                                               
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3030                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 104.                                     
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
 BILL:  SB  68                                                               
 SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) LEMAN,Ellis,Kelly,Pearce                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 02/06/95       182    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/06/95       182    (S)   HES                                               
 02/09/95       225    (S)   COSPONSOR(S):  ELLIS                              
 02/15/95              (S)   HES AT 09:00 AM BUTROVICH RM 205                  
 02/15/95              (S)   MINUTE(HES)                                       
 02/16/95       315    (S)   HES RPT  CS  3DP 2NR  NEW TITLE                   
 02/16/95       315    (S)   ZERO FN (DEC #1)                                  
 02/20/95              (S)   RLS AT 11:25 AM FAHRENKAMP RM 203                 
 02/20/95              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                       
 02/21/95       349    (S)   RULES TO CALENDAR  2/21/95                        
 02/21/95       354    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                              
 02/21/95       354    (S)   HES  CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                      
 02/21/95       354    (S)   COSPONSOR(S):  KELLY, PEARCE                      
 02/21/95       355    (S)   ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN                    
 02/21/95       355    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB 68(HES)                 
 02/21/95       355    (S)   PASSED Y18 N- E1 A1                               
 02/21/95       355    (S)   LEMAN  NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                  
 02/22/95       370    (S)   RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING                 
 02/22/95       370    (S)   RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 1  UNAN                   
 02/22/95       371    (S)   AM NO  1     ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                 
 02/22/95       371    (S)   AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING                    
 02/22/95       372    (S)   PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y19 A1                  
 02/22/95       374    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                
 02/27/95       479    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/27/95       480    (H)   FISHERIES & HES                                   
 03/06/95              (H)   FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
 03/06/95              (H)   MINUTE(FSH)                                       
 03/13/95              (H)   FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
 03/20/95       824    (H)   FSH REFERRAL WAIVED                               
 04/04/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 BILL:  SB  39                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: MEMORIAL SCHOLARSHIP LOANS                                       
 SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) TAYLOR,Zharoff                                         
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG              ACTION                                      
 01/19/95        50    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/19/95        50    (S)   HES, FIN                                          
 02/08/95       204    (S)   HES RPT  2DP 2NR                                  
 02/08/95       204    (S)   ZERO FNS (DPS #1, DOE #2)                         
 02/08/95              (S)   HES AT 09:00 AM BUTROVICH ROOM 205                
 02/08/95              (S)   MINUTE(HES)                                       
 03/08/95              (S)   FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                
 03/08/95              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                       
 03/09/95       554    (S)   FIN RPT  CS  7DP     NEW TITLE                    
 03/09/95       555    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FNS (DPS #1,DOE #2)                 
 03/09/95       561    (S)   COSPONSOR(S):  ZHAROFF                            
 03/09/95              (S)   RLS AT 04:15 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203                 
 03/09/95              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                       
 03/10/95       577    (S)   RULES TO CALENDAR  3/10/95                        
 03/10/95       579    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                              
 03/10/95       580    (S)   FIN  CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                      
 03/10/95       580    (S)   THIRD READING 3/14 CALENDAR                       
 03/14/95       603    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB 39(FIN)                 
 03/14/95       603    (S)   PASSED Y14 N- E3 A3                               
 03/14/95       604    (S)   EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE                 
 03/14/95       606    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                
 03/15/95       734    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                   
 03/15/95       734    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                      
 04/04/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 BILL:  SB  27                                                                
 SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) DONLEY,Ellis,Lincoln,Pearce;                           
 REPRESENTATIVE(S) Willis, Robinson                                            
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG              ACTION                                      
 01/13/95        21    (S)   PREFILE RELEASED - 1/13/95                        
 01/16/95        21    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/16/95        21    (S)   HES, JUD                                          
 02/02/95       146    (S)   SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED-                    
 02/02/95       146    (S)   HES, JUD                                          
 03/01/95       436    (S)   HES RPT  3DP 2NR                                  
 03/01/95       436    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE (COURT #1)                       
 03/01/95              (S)   HES AT 09:00 AM BUTROVICH ROOM 205                
 03/01/95              (S)   MINUTE(HES)                                       
 03/15/95              (S)   JUD AT 02:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                    
 03/17/95              (S)   JUD AT 03:00 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                    
 03/17/95              (S)   MINUTE(JUD)                                       
 03/20/95       696    (S)   JUD RPT  4DP 1NR                                  
 03/20/95       696    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FN (COURT #1)                       
 03/22/95              (S)   RLS AT 12:30 PM FAHRENKAMP ROOM 203               
 03/23/95       766    (S)   RULES TO CALENDAR  3/23/95                        
 03/23/95       768    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                              
 03/23/95       768    (S)   ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN                    
 03/23/95       768    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME  SSSB 27                      
 03/23/95       768    (S)   COSPONSOR: PEARCE                                 
 03/23/95       768    (S)   PASSED Y18 N- E2                                  
 03/23/95       772    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                
 03/24/95       879    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/24/95       879    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY                                    
 03/24/95       920    (H)   CROSS SPONSOR(S): WILLIS, ROBINSON                
 04/04/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 BILL:  HB 222                                                                
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) VEZEY                                           
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 03/03/95       564    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/03/95       564    (H)   HEALTH,EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES,               
 04/04/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 BILL:  HB 104                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: DISCLOSURE OF JUVENILE RECORDS                                   
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KOTT,Bunde,Green                                
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 01/20/95       101    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/20/95       101    (H)   HES, JUD                                          
 01/25/95       136    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): GREEN                               
 02/10/95       301    (H)   SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED-                    
 02/10/95       301    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/10/95       301    (H)   HES, JUD                                          
 02/23/95              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 02/23/95              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                       
 02/23/95              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                       
 02/23/95              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                       
 03/23/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 03/23/95              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                       
 04/04/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
 TAPE 95-34, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR CON BUNDE called the meeting of the House Health,                    
 Education and Social Services standing committee to order at 2:05             
 p.m.  Present at the call to order were Representatives Bunde,                
 Toohey, Vezey and Brice.  A quorum was present to conduct business.           
 Co-Chair Bunde read the calendar and announced the order of the               
 bills.  He also announced that he and Co-Chair Toohey would                   
 alternate chairing the meeting.                                               
 SB 68 - FOOD BANKS;MEAT & SEAFOOD PROCESSORS                              
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE turned the gavel over to Co-Chair Toohey.                      
 Number 113                                                                    
 JANET OGAN, Legislative Secretary for Senator Loren Leman,                    
 presented the sponsor statement on his behalf.  She said Senator              
 Leman introduced SB 68 at the request of the Food Bank of Alaska.             
 The purpose of this bill is to encourage more entities to donate              
 food to food banks and nonprofit agencies that serve the needy.  It           
 provides salmon hatcheries and meat and seafood processors with the           
 same protection under the state law they have under the Federal               
 Good Samaritan Food Donation Act (FGSFD).                                     
 MS. OGAN explained the FGSFD relieves food donors from certain                
 liability for death or injury resulting from the death of donated             
 food.  To qualify for protection under the Act as a donor, the                
 person must donate the food for free distribution by a food bank.             
 Current state law protects donors and food banks from civil and               
 criminal liability arising from injury or death attributable to the           
 condition of the donated food.                                                
 MS. OGAN said however, the donating party remains liable if the               
 injury or death results from gross negligence or recklessness, or             
 intentional misconduct of the donor.  Salmon hatcheries, and meat             
 and seafood processors are not specifically listed as donors                  
 covered by this protection under existing state law.                          
 Number 207                                                                    
 MS. OGAN said upon the passage of this bill, the Food Bank of                 
 Alaska (FBA) expects thousands of pounds of seafood and meat to be            
 contributed and distributed to the needy.  The bill also clarifies            
 to whom and how the FBA distributes goods.                                    
 MS. OGAN introduced an amendment that provides for an effective               
 date for SB 68.  Basically, the amendment pertains to the fishing             
 industry, so the industry will be able to contribute goods they               
 have received.                                                                
 Number 258                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE acknowledged the presence of Representative Robinson           
 at 2:08 p.m., and invited Representative Ed Willis, who was                   
 observing the meeting, to sit at the committee table.  Co-Chair               
 Bunde also moved the committee accept CSSB 68(HESS).                          
 CO-CHAIR CYNTHIA TOOHEY found no objection, and the CS was adopted.           
 She asked if there was a list of entities to which salmon                     
 hatcheries and meat and seafood processors could donate.                      
 MS. OGAN said there was not.  The bill speaks specifically of the             
 FBA, for distribution to the needy.                                           
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE moved amendment one, K.1 dated 3/9/95.  There were             
 no objections, and the amendment was adopted.                                 
 Number 385                                                                    
 JACK DOYLE, Executive Director of the FBA, said he has served in              
 that position since late 1987.  The FBA is an umbrella of over 200            
 nonprofit agencies all over Alaska.  The FBA was chartered in 1979            
 as a nonprofit corporation in the state of Alaska.  It is a member            
 of Second Harvest, a national umbrella for 188 food banks scattered           
 across the United States.                                                     
 MR. DOYLE said the role of the FBA in Alaska is unique.  The FBA              
 solicits, receives, sorts, inspects, stores, ships, delivers or               
 provides food and household product donations through a network of            
 soup kitchens, food pantries, emergency shelters, youth and adult             
 day care centers, and youth agencies.  Products come to the FBA               
 from many sources:  Purchased food, national donations, food                  
 drives, day-old products, U.S. Government commodities, and locally            
 donated products within the state of Alaska.                                  
 MR. DOYLE continued that persons or companies who donate products             
 need the protection of the Alaska Good Samaritan Act, so if they              
 donate in good faith, they will not be held responsible should                
 something go wrong.                                                           
 Number 492                                                                    
 MR. DOYLE said currently such protection is excluded in Alaska's              
 Good Samaritan Act for meat and fish processors, and bottlers.  The           
 proposed amendments would extend protection to potential donors who           
 process meat, fish or bottled goods, and would allow the FBA to               
 recover some of its overhead costs.  The goal of the FBA is unique            
 in that it accepts these large donations, sometimes in van-loads of           
 products, from the Lower 48.  When the food comes in to the FBA, it           
 is stored, sometimes for several months, until the many agencies in           
 the network can access that food.                                             
 MR. DOYLE said the FBA is, by comparison, kind of the "J.B.                   
 Gottstein" of reusable food and household products.  The FBA                  
 distributes not to people, but to the agencies which then provide             
 the products at no cost to clients.                                           
 MR. DOYLE thanked the HESS Committee members for the opportunity to           
 testify in favor of the proposed amendments to Alaska's Good                  
 Samaritan Act, contained in SB 86.                                            
 Number 567                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE supports the Good Samaritan bills to protect people            
 who are trying to do a good turn.  However, he asked if there has             
 been recent incidences in the FBA, or if Mr. Doyle knows of any               
 incidences in which someone who has been a Good Samaritan has been            
 the recipient of a lawsuit.                                                   
 MR. DOYLE was not aware of any lawsuits in his seven years at the             
 FBA.  The FBA has not had any donations which were tainted.  The              
 FBA watches and stores goods, and inspects goods on a regular                 
 basis.  If the products look questionable, it is thrown away                  
 without hesitation.  The FBA tries to exert that care.  Mr. Doyle             
 cannot respond in terms of individual food distribution centers               
 such as the Glory Hole in Juneau.                                             
 Number 642                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if Mr. Doyle would say SB 68 is a proactive              
 measure rather than a reaction to a problem.  Mr. Doyle said the              
 bill was proactive.                                                           
 Number 664                                                                    
 RAY GILLESPIE, Lobbyist, represented four regional aquaculture                
 associations and hatcheries.  One is located in Cook Inlet, one is            
 in Prince William Sound, one is in northern and one in southern               
 Southeast Alaska.  He said the four regional aquaculture                      
 associations support SB 68.  There is, in the bill, a specific                
 provision that deals with the donation of hatchery fish to a food             
 MR. GILLESPIE noted that Co-Chair Bunde had questioned whether                
 there has been any lawsuits.  The Cook Inlet Aquaculture                      
 Association had declined in the past, based on advice from their              
 attorney, to donate fish.  This bill will facilitate donations, and           
 relieve the association of some legal concerns.                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if the legal concerns arose over fresh,                 
 frozen or canned fish.                                                        
 MR. GILLESPIE said the concerns arose over donated fish that was at           
 the hatchery for brood stock.  The fish is typically opened, the              
 eggs are taken, and the salmon is then transferred, if it is fit              
 for human consumption, to a food bank for consumption by whatever             
 agencies distribute fish.  In the past, the association's attorney            
 had advised against the donation of this fish, because there is               
 some legal exposure there.  This legislation would eliminate that             
 impediment to those donations.                                                
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY closed the hearing to public testimony, and asked             
 for the wish of the committee.  Co-Chair Bunde motioned HCS CSSB
 68(HES) be moved from the HESS Committee with individual                      
 recommendations and accompanying fiscal notes.  There were no                 
 objections, and the bill was moved.                                           
 SB 39 - MEMORIAL SCHOLARSHIP LOANS                                          
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE chaired this portion of the meeting.                           
 Number 856                                                                    
 JOE AMBROSE, Legislative Assistant to Senator Robin Taylor,                   
 presented the sponsor statement on Senator Taylor's behalf.  He               
 said this bill was introduced at the suggestion of the Admissions             
 Clerk at the University of Alaska Southeast, Sitka Campus.  The               
 bill would modify the eligibility requirements for the Alaska State           
 Troopers Michael Murphy scholarship program to include certificate            
 programs.  The wording of AS 14.43.300 currently limits the                   
 awarding of Murphy scholarship loans to students who pursue a                 
 degree program in law enforcement, law, probation, and parole, and            
 closely related fields.                                                       
 MR. AMBROSE said the language prevents students in a certificate              
 program such as the law enforcement certificate program offered at            
 the Sitka campus from eligibility.  The scholarship revolving loan            
 fund established by the legislature includes a provision allowing             
 forgiveness of one-fifth of the loan indebtedness for each year of            
 full employment in Alaska in law enforcement.  Department of Labor            
 statistics show that 63 percent of Sitka program graduates are                
 currently employed in the state as law enforcement personnel.                 
 Number 920                                                                    
 MR. AMBROSE noted the bill carries a zero fiscal note, and received           
 unanimous "do-pass" recommendations from both the Senate HESS and             
 Finance Committees last year before receiving a unanimous vote in             
 the full Senate.  SB 39 will potentially benefit Alaskan students             
 attending an Alaskan school with an eye toward employment in                  
 Alaska.  Mr. Ambrose said a representative from Senator Zharoff's             
 office was present to explain Sections 3 through 5 of the CS from             
 the Finance Committee.  These amendments were offered by Senator              
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said the only program with forgiveness is the                 
 trooper memorial.  She asked if that was correct.                             
 MR. AMBROSE said there is a forgiveness provision that applies to             
 most of the scholarship loans that are covered by AS 14.43.300.               
 This specific bill only changes the requirement from a graduate or            
 degree program to a certificate program under the Michael Murphy              
 scholarship.  The provision that was amended by Senator Zharoff               
 makes a change in the Winn Brindle memorial scholarship.                      
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE added that as a member of the Postsecondary                    
 Education Commission, he was involved in hearing an appeal where a            
 very deserving applicant was not covered because he/she was in a              
 certificate program, and not a degree program.  Co-Chair Bunde                
 doubted it was the original intent of the program to exclude those            
 applicants.  He certainly supports the goal of this legislation.              
 Number 1040                                                                   
 THOMAS PANAMAROFF, Legislative Assistant to Senator Zharoff,                  
 explained that Sections 3, 4 and 5 of CSSB 39(FIN) apply to the               
 Winn Brindle Memorial Scholarship Loan.  Senator Zharoff had a                
 bill, SB 36, that dealt with the Winn Brindle Memorial Scholarship            
 Loan.  It was up before Senate Finance at the same time as Senator            
 Taylor's bill.  The committee decided to meld the two bills                   
 MR. PANAMAROFF said several years ago the legislature established             
 the Winn Brindle Memorial Scholarship Loan.  The program's intent             
 is to make loans to Alaskan students who are seeking degrees in               
 fields that relate to the fishing industry, food technology, fish             
 biology, and related fields.  The program is funded by                        
 contributions from the fish processing industry.  Since 1987,                 
 processors have contributed over $1.8 million to the program.                 
 MR. PANAMAROFF reported that currently, there is a balance of about           
 $1.4 million in the Winn Brindle fund.  He believes the reason for            
 the large balance in the fund is because there has not been many              
 students accessing the program.  The reason they have not been                
 accessing the program is because the payback provisions on the                
 program are exactly the same as the regular student loan program.             
 Therefore, there is no incentive for a student to access the Winn             
 Brindle funds because they would have to be pursuing a fisheries-             
 related field.  This fund restricts their ability to change majors            
 if they ever wanted to.                                                       
 MR. PANAMAROFF said in order to try to get more access to the                 
 program, Senator Zharoff introduced SB 36.  The bill provides for             
 a loan forgiveness provision similar to the old student loan                  
 program, where over a course of five years, a student can get                 
 forgiveness of up to 50 percent.  It also fixes the rate of                   
 interest on the loan at 5 percent.                                            
 MR. PANAMAROFF said basically the bill does not have any general              
 fund impact.  The program is funded by processors.                            
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE thinks the interest in this fund will grow,                    
 considering the new student loan interest without a payback                   
 provision will be about 9 percent.  Therefore, Senator Zharoff may            
 soon encounter more interest in fisheries.  He closed public                  
 testimony, and asked for the wish of the committee.                           
 Number 1170                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY motioned to move CSSB 39(FIN) from the HESS                   
 Committee with its two zero fiscal notes and individual                       
 recommendations.  There were no objections, and the bill passed.              
 Co-Chair Toohey chaired the next bill.                                        
 SB 27 - MISC. GRANDPARENT VISITATION RIGHTS                               
 Number 1203                                                                   
 JAMES ARMSTRONG, Legislative Researcher for Senator Donley, said SB
 27 would give grandparents the legal status to petition the court             
 for visitation rights with their grandchildren.  Under existing               
 law, the court can grant an order that provides for visitation by             
 grandparents in divorce and separation proceedings, and in cases              
 when one or both of the parents have died.  Grandparents themselves           
 are not allowed to initiate such an action.                                   
 MR. ARMSTRONG explained that SB 27 would give grandparents the                
 standing to ask for visitation rights if those rights were denied             
 or not initially provided for by the court.  SB 27 does not require           
 that visitation rights be given, it is completely up to the                   
 discretion of the judge.  The best interest of the child would be             
 the primary factor for granting such rights.                                  
 MR. ARMSTRONG said to his knowledge, Alaska is the only state in              
 the Union that does not currently allow grandparents to make such             
 petitions.  This bill has a zero fiscal note, and the Senator's               
 office has heard of no opposition to this bill.                               
 Number 1272                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY knows of grandparents who, because of current law,            
 are not allowed to petition the courts for visitation rights.                 
 Therefore, there is no contact with the child at all.                         
 MR. ARMSTRONG said there is reference in statute, AS 25.24.150, in            
 which the court can currently grant the action.  However, if that             
 grant is not provided for, the grandparents have no recourse with             
 which to visit their grandchildren.  This bill will allow them to             
 petition the court.                                                           
 MR. ARMSTRONG said Section 1 addresses other custody disputes.                
 Section 2 is a general provision clause, as is found in other                 
 states.  This does not put any parameters on when the grandparents            
 can petition.  Section 3 of the bill deals with dissolutions.                 
 Sections 1 and 3 provide consistency with existing laws.  Section             
 2 gives grandparents the right to petition.                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said there was a similar House bill in the HESS                
 Committee that was scheduled to be heard the following week.  The             
 sponsor of the bill, Representative Willis, was present, and Co-              
 Chair Bunde asked if Representative Willis would like to make any             
 Number 1350                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS confirmed that he does have similar                  
 legislation, however, he would urge the committee to act on SB 27             
 to get it moving.  He is speaking not only as a legislator, but as            
 a grandparent.  As was pointed out, this bill did pass the Senate             
 last year, and died at the end of the last session.  He urged HESS            
 Committee members to pass SB 27.                                              
 Number 1400                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON asked Mr. Armstrong about the wording           
 concerning grandparents "and other persons."  She asked if he would           
 speak on who would be included in that phrase.                                
 MR. ARMSTRONG said "other persons," according to the drafter, is              
 mentioned in AS 25.24.150, which provides for the court to grant a            
 visitation petition to grandparents.  The drafter of the bill said            
 this language would keep SB 27 consistent with current statute.  It           
 would apply to aunts, uncles, cousins.                                        
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the only hesitation he has with this bill                 
 concerns horror stories he has read about in the newspapers where             
 grandparents and their adult children are estranged.  Therefore,              
 the grandchildren become pawns in the acrimonious battle between              
 adult children and the grandparents.  He assumed, whether it was              
 fair or not, the parent will probably always prevail for custody of           
 the child.                                                                    
 Number 1487                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Armstrong if children are adequately                 
 protected from being "pawns" in a battle between adults.                      
 MR. ARMSTRONG said that is completely up to the discretion of the             
 judge.  The primary factor is the best interest of the child.                 
 This bill does not force the judge to grant visitation.  However,             
 if the grandparents feel they have a right to interact with their             
 grandchildren, they have the right to petition.  Grandparents can             
 petition, but the judge can deny that petition if he or she feels             
 it is in the best interest of the child.                                      
 Number 1517                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY expressed concern about the stories she has heard             
 about horrible grandparents.  She confirmed that the decision was             
 up to the judge's discretion.                                                 
 Number 1553                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE moved SB 27 to the next committee of                 
 referral with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal              
 notes.  There were no objections, and the bill passed.                        
 HB 222 - SCHOOL CONST: ALASKA BIDDER PREFERENCE                             
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE announced that HB 222, previously scheduled, had               
 been pulled from the calendar.                                                
 Number 1587                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she had another meeting to attend. She           
 left the meeting at 2:36 p.m.                                                 
 HB 104 - DISCLOSURE OF JUVENILE RECORDS                                     
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE announced the bill had been heard previously in the            
 HESS Committee, along with similar legislation.                               
 Number 1641                                                                   
 ROD MOURANT, Administrative Assistant to Representative Pete Kott,            
 said at the last hearing on HB 104 the committee asked                        
 Representative Kott to work with the Department of Law (DOL) to               
 specify what type of information was being referred to in                     
 disclosing information concerning a juvenile arrested for a crime             
 that would have been a felony had the juvenile been an adult.                 
 MR. MOURANT said he worked with Ms. Knuth of the DOL, and now HESS            
 Committee members will find the information in question on page 1,            
 line 14 of version K of the bill.  The information for disclosure             
 now includes the juvenile's name, the date and place of the                   
 offense, and the description and nature of the offense.                       
 Number 1670                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY asked if this information was proper.  He             
 asked if Mr. Mourant was referring to the offense, or the alleged             
 MR. MOURANT said the disclosed information would include the                  
 offense with which the juvenile is charged.  It is an alleged                 
 offense at that stage, and it is the offense named in the charge.             
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY questioned that there may be trouble with the            
 interpretations of that.                                                      
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said representatives from the DOL were available to            
 answer questions.                                                             
 Number 1689                                                                   
 MR. MOURANT said basically, those are the only changes in the                 
 legislation that was presented previously to HESS Committee                   
 members.  He pointed out, however, that changing the focus of HB
 104 to what amounts to "police blotter" information should quell              
 the concerns of the Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS)           
 agencies threatened with the loss of funding because of the source            
 of the information.  He also noted that the fiscal notes should be            
 MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division,                  
 Department of Law, said she would read the offense of line 15 to              
 relate back to line 10, which says, "notwithstanding AS                       
 47.10.093(a), when a juvenile has been arrested by a peace officer            
 for commission of an offense...."  She would infer that it is an              
 alleged offense.  To have or not have the word "alleged" would not            
 make a difference, but it could certainly be added without a                  
 negative impact on the bill.                                                  
 MS. KNUTH said the point of the CS was to narrow the information              
 being released by the police so it was not the full report.  The CS           
 mandates "police blotter" information.  There is still the problem,           
 however, that the police will not be able to disclose further                 
 information such as the dismissal of charges on the next day if the           
 arrest was the result of a mistaken identity, or if the charges are           
 reduced.  That is just the inherent problem with the disclosure of            
 juvenile information in this situation.                                       
 Number 1822                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if it was therefore Ms. Knuth's                    
 testimony that HB 104 would not authorize the release of subsequent           
 police findings.                                                              
 MS. KNUTH said he was correct.  This is because those subsequent              
 actions are going to be taken by the Division of Family and Youth             
 Services (DFYS) and by the DOL, and that is the type of information           
 the federal government has held cannot be distributed to the public           
 without jeopardizing federal funds.                                           
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked Mr. Mourant why the legislature would              
 want to limit the release of such information to the commission of            
 a felony.  Misdemeanors are certainly not as serious as felonies,             
 but they are certainly offensive crimes.  At this point, the policy           
 of Alaska has been to protect minors from their own acts of                   
 irresponsibility.  Representative Vezey thinks the approach of this           
 bill is to bring public and peer pressure on board as a force in              
 trying to get people to conform to society's rules and laws.  He              
 asked again why disclosure would be limited to felonies, when most            
 violations will be misdemeanors, including car theft.                         
 Number 1895                                                                   
 MR. MOURANT said the intent of restricting the scope of disclosures           
 to felonies was for two purposes.  The first was to just disclose             
 the nature of extremely serious crimes that fall into the felony              
 category.  The second was to not cause disclosure of minor offenses           
 committed by juveniles.                                                       
 MR. MOURANT said he was not sure about Representative Vezey's                 
 juvenile history, but Mr. Mourant got arrested during spring break            
 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida for throwing water balloons at passing            
 cars.  Co-Chair Bunde said the Chair would make a note of that.               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked what punishment he received.                       
 MR. MOURANT recalled that unfortunately, the police officer                   
 notified the local police, and they greeted Mr. Mourant at the door           
 of his house with his parents.  The punishment was justly rewarded            
 by his father.                                                                
 Number 1930                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if Mr. Mourant did not therefore think             
 it appropriate for that type of information to be in the police               
 MR. MOURANT did not feel the appropriateness was the issue of the             
 legislation.  The intent of the legislation is to notify educators            
 and the general public of extremely serious offenses, not to pass             
 judgement on what is appropriate in the big picture of arrests and            
 Number 1964                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if the disclosure was only to school records.           
 MR. MOURANT answered no.  This is police blotter information,                 
 therefore it is all crimes that would have been felonies had the              
 offender been an adult.                                                       
 Number 1988                                                                   
 MARGARET BERCK, Attorney, Representative of the American Civil                
 Liberties Union (ACLU), urged the committee to not pass the bill.             
 She asked the committee whether permanently labeling children is              
 really the answer they seek, and if that is good public policy.               
 MS. BERCK noted the current CS would allow for the release of                 
 arrest information with respect to juveniles to be made public.               
 She said arrest information is the kind of information that has not           
 been tested by a grand jury proceeding, a preliminary hearing or              
 prosecutorial screening.  In essence, arrest-type information is              
 shaky at best.  It reminds her of a very famous line in the movie             
 "Casablanca."  The movie ended with, "Round up the usual suspects."           
 MS. BERCK asked to share with HESS Committee members a conversation           
 she had with a respected Juneau businessman last week about the               
 disclosure of juvenile records.  As a juvenile, this man had many             
 problems with the law.  However, because juvenile records were kept           
 confidential, he was able to put his past behind him.  He became an           
 Alaska State Trooper, a top level official in the U.S. military               
 service, and today he is a respected businessman in Juneau.                   
 Number 2070                                                                   
 MS. BERCK said that man's position is that if the information about           
 him had been released, he would not have been given many choices.             
 Who knows where he would have ended up.  However, it would not be             
 in the position he is in today.  For these reasons, the ACLU would            
 ask the committee to consider whether or not making public juvenile           
 arrest records is really going to resolve the problems that exist             
 in the juvenile justice system today.                                         
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked how old the trooper was.                                
 MS. BERCK said the man is probably in his early 50s.                          
 Number 2107                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY felt the world was a lot safer 35 years ago.                  
 Juveniles threw water balloons, and were spanked by their father.             
 It was a gentler, kinder world at that time.  Today, car theft or             
 assault on a 13-year-old girl is not something that can be                    
 tolerated anymore.  The world is different now, and HB 104 is                 
 addressing this different world.  It is not addressing the pranks             
 of a 12-year-old.  It is addressing murder, rape, assault, car                
 theft, and everything else committed by a 13-, 14-, or 15-year-old.           
 MS. BERCK understand the legislature passed a bill last year that             
 made some of the most serious felony offenses public.  Ms. Berck              
 recently represented a 16-year-old robber in juvenile court.  All             
 of that was public under the new bill.  Therefore, under what the             
 legislature did last year, some of the felonies Co-Chair Toohey               
 just mentioned are already covered under existing laws, and subject           
 to considerable disclosure.  Those hearings are even made public.             
 MS. BERCK said HB 104 expands disclosure even more.  If someone               
 breaks a window, more likely than not he/she has committed a felony           
 due to the high costs of windows.  Somebody who steals a car valued           
 over $500 is committing a felony also.                                        
 MS. BERCK did not know what the gentleman did when he was a youth.            
 His position also was that he would not want his children's ability           
 to go forward in their lives impacted by labeling such as                     
 disclosure of juvenile arrest records in felony cases.                        
 Number 2203                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if SB 54 (the juvenile waiver bill passed               
 last year) covered what HB 104 covers.                                        
 MR. MOURANT said HB 104 does touch on some of the elements, but it            
 does not nearly encompass all the possibilities that are in HB 104.           
 DENNIS GREGORY, Teacher, Butte Elementary School, Mat-Su Valley;              
 and Member, Juvenile Violence Task Force; spoke in favor of HB 104.           
 He recognizes the rights of Alaska's youth, and he wants to defend            
 the youth just as much as everyone else.  However, the world of               
 today is very different, as Co-Chair Toohey said.  As an example of           
 that, in Mat-Su Valley this year there has been over 45 expulsions            
 from the school district as a result of violent crime or drug use.            
 MR. GREGORY noted that those students can go to another school                
 district anonymously, without the teachers knowing any information            
 about them.  As a school district representative, Mr. Gregory can             
 attest that the school district does not want to pry into the                 
 private lives of families or children.  However, certain                      
 information is necessary in order to educate those children                   
 properly and completely.  By the word "completely," Mr. Gregory               
 meant knowing the students "hot buttons, cold buttons, and by                 
 knowing what they might necessarily require in terms of special               
 help and assistance."                                                         
 MR. GREGORY said the task force he is on is not just a school task            
 force.  It is a community and business task force.  The people who            
 are running shopping centers do not want some of the expelled                 
 students hanging out in their shopping centers, which is what is              
 currently happening.  The task force would like to have enough                
 funding to keep the students in the school district in alternative            
 types of programs.  Since that is not the case, the security help             
 in the shopping areas needs to be able to go to a source to find              
 out the child's past run-ins with the law.                                    
 MR. GREGORY continued that the security people need to know if the            
 child has a history of being a drug pusher or has a history of                
 petty theft.  The security people need to know if the child is even           
 more dangerous than that, if he or she has violent or sexually                
 aggressive tendencies.  Mr. Gregory feels very strongly that this             
 bill is necessary.                                                            
 Number 2311                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that HB 104 only relates to people being           
 arrested, not convicted.  Therefore, the public does not know                 
 whether or not these youth, who have been exposed for one reason or           
 another, have been convicted of a crime.  They might have been                
 arrested, but maybe the law has not been able to find them guilty.            
 Representative Brice asked if the bill should not state that the              
 information is released upon conviction of a crime, versus the mere           
 TAPE 95-34, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that his question was posed as                     
 consideration to the sponsor of the bill, to Mr. Gregory, and to              
 the Chair.  However, it was a rhetorical question, as he knew at              
 the time of conviction, information could not be released without             
 loss of federal funding.                                                      
 MR. GREGORY said business people would like to know if students               
 have been arrested and are hanging out in their shopping centers.             
 Mr. Gregory said the teachers would like to know if students are              
 currently involved in the court system.  In his opinion, the public           
 needs to know whether students have been arrested as well as                  
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE felt what is being left unsaid by those who sit at             
 the table with Co-Chair Bunde is that if any legislator was                   
 arrested, it would be on the front page.  However, if the charges             
 were removed, that news would be on the back page.  Co-Chair Bunde            
 said he is very aware of the different world of today.  He is also            
 very concerned about establishing and requiring personal                      
 responsibility.  People who operate under a heavy cloak of                    
 anonymity are able to do things they would not do if their parents            
 and the community knew what they were up to.                                  
 Number 099                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE conceded that on the other hand, he does not want              
 anyone branded.  The younger the person is, the greater the chances           
 of rehabilitation.  People do live up to or down to the                       
 expectations placed upon them.  It is a balancing act.  Co-Chair              
 Bunde asked everyone to keep in mind the phrase, "Innocent until              
 proven guilty."  Co-Chair Bunde asked Mr. Mourant to speak on                 
 whether conviction would be a more appropriate time to share the              
 information rather than the time of arrest.                                   
 MR. MOURANT asked Representative Brice to recall previous hearings            
 on HB 104.  The intent of the bill was initially to display records           
 after the court proceedings had taken place.  The sponsor of the              
 bill was informed by the DHSS that disclosure at that time would              
 cost the state literally millions of dollars of federal funding for           
 programs in that agency.  For that reason, the legislation was                
 changed to police blotter information.                                        
 Number 189                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said the bill clearly states that in an offense               
 that would have been a felony if committed by an adult, the                   
 following information about a juvenile may be disclosed by the                
 entity employing the police officer.  She asked how much he felt              
 that "may" is going to be used.  She also asked who is going to               
 determine whether the name of the youth, etc., is going to be                 
 placed into the police blotter.                                               
 MR. MOURANT assumed that if a publication contacts a local police             
 department for information on police blotter arrests, this type of            
 information would be included with that.  However, it is certainly            
 not required that the information be included.                                
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the way he reads it, if the police department             
 is asked, it may provide the information.  However, he thinks most            
 police departments are very busy and they would not be offering               
 that information through press releases.                                      
 MR. MOURANT felt Co-Chair Bunde was correct.  His office assumes              
 the disclosure would be in response to public inquiry.                        
 Number 272                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE assumed it would only take the filing of one             
 Freedom of Information request to make the police departments                 
 discontinue the use of that discretion.  He asked why there was no            
 fiscal note associated with disclosure prior to conviction.  There            
 is only a fiscal note attached after conviction.  While the "may"             
 might allow permissiveness, it will become, without a doubt, a                
 wide-open door for the disclosure of all juvenile matters.                    
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE knows of incidences in which juveniles have              
 been arrested, not convicted, for doing silly things.  Those                  
 juveniles have since become very productive citizens.  Their                  
 chances may have been hampered had their crimes been disclosed.               
 Those juveniles were never convicted, but they were arrested.                 
 Representative Brice felt the "may" in the bill is just as good as            
 a "shall."  To say that the bill is permissive is misleading.                 
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE respectfully disagreed.  He viewed the bill as                 
 stipulating if there is public interest, and the press desires the            
 information, then the information will be requested.  At that                 
 point, the police department "may" give that information.  It may             
 be that there is community outrage.  In Fairbanks, the community              
 was outraged when vandals tore up a school.  If there was that much           
 public interest, the press would go to the police department.  Once           
 the police department was asked, the department "may" give that               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE still did not feel, however, that the police                   
 department would disseminate the information without a request.               
 Therefore, if a crime involves minor shoplifting or a window-                 
 breaking, that information would be available should the press ask.           
 However, if the press does not ask, that information will probably            
 not come out.                                                                 
 Number 459                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE is of the understanding that the information must be           
 disclosed before the trial because juveniles are adjudicated in the           
 DFYS arena.  If the information is released after the child is                
 involved with DFYS (which occurs immediately after arrest), there             
 will be a loss of millions in federal funding.  If disclosure                 
 happens before the juvenile is adjudicated, that threat does not              
 come into play.                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if she was assuming the fiscal notes in the             
 bill packet are no longer applicable to the CS HB 104.                        
 Number 510                                                                    
 MR. MOURANT said he would prefer to have the agency answer that               
 question, but he would assume the fiscal notes are no longer valid            
 as the new bill no longer risks federal funding.  He would assume             
 DHSS fiscal notes would now be zero.                                          
 Number 527                                                                    
 LEE ANN LUCAS, Special Assistant to Commissioner Ronald L. Otte,              
 Department of Public Safety (DPS), addressed Representative Brice's           
 question.  It is her understanding that currently, as a matter of             
 course, if a juvenile is charged as an adult at the time of arrest,           
 the troopers automatically do a press release.  That press release            
 is placed automatically on the Alaska Public Safety Information               
 Network (APSIN).  Then that press release is placed on a police               
 blotter, so the press can glean information.  She believes that is            
 how the bill would work for the DHSS.                                         
 MS. LUCAS said the DPS does not anticipate any fiscal impact.  The            
 department would simply perform the same actions it does for adults           
 at this time.                                                                 
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said he stood corrected.  However, he asked how                
 there could be no fiscal impact.  If all the juveniles are placed             
 into the system and then press releases are published, there are              
 going to be many more press releases.                                         
 MS. LUCAS said, as a matter of course, when a case report is done,            
 this press release is something that is done as part of that                  
 report.  It would not require any additional work than is currently           
 performed for these felony crimes.                                            
 Number 600                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the assumption is then in reality                   
 (pragmatically speaking) the bill is a "shall" disclose rather than           
 a "may" disclose.                                                             
 MS. LUCAS believed the information would be handled in the same way           
 adult information is handled.                                                 
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked if therefore, the information release              
 was not discretionary.  She indicated he was correct.                         
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY submitted that there would perhaps be a                  
 reduction in cost to the state and the DPS, if the juvenile arrest            
 did not have to be sorted out from all the other arrests before a             
 press release was made.  All the information would be available to            
 the public, and there would be little editing.  Therefore, there              
 may be less total work involved.                                              
 Number 646                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. Lucas if she could see a way in which the            
 disclosure of the information was permissive, and the juvenile                
 information would be available upon request, but it was not                   
 MS. LUCAS felt she could not respond to that at this time.  She               
 would have to check.                                                          
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE did not think it was as important that "Johnny broke           
 a $500 window," as "Johnny broke into the high school and destroyed           
 $50,000 worth of computers."                                                  
 MS. LUCAS felt that would be the intent of the legislation, and               
 policies and procedures could be adopted to carry that out.                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY repeated that the world is not so kind anymore.  If           
 Johnny is going to break a $500 window, there is going to have to             
 be punishment, unless the window was broken by a softball on                  
 accident.  If the police or state troopers are involved, however,             
 Johnny's vandalism is a problem.  The boy's name gets in the paper.           
 A neighbor may call another neighbor and ask, what happened with              
 Johnny?  The neighbor would then reply, "Oh, he broke a window."              
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY felt these things can be explained.  The state is             
 hiding these juveniles to the point where they are killing people.            
 She has heard many of her constituents ask why the names of                   
 juveniles are not released.  The names should be released.                    
 Number 756                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE followed up on the last comment by saying,               
 "Maybe if they are found guilty."                                             
 ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant to Commissioner Perdue, DHSS,              
 believed HESS Committee members were previously provided with a set           
 of fiscal notes from DFYS that referred to the Sponsor Substitute             
 (SS) for HB 104.  At that point in the bill's evolution, the DHSS             
 believed the bill would jeopardize approximately $6 million in                
 federal funding.  The belief was based on an opinion from the                 
 federal government relating to disclosure (what is and is not                 
 MR. LINDSTROM said basically, as soon as a juvenile comes to the              
 attention of the DHSS and the DHSS becomes involved in that                   
 juvenile's situation, the door slams shut on confidentiality.  It             
 would jeopardize federal funds to release information about that              
 juvenile.  The latest CS of HB 104 is constructed to attempt to               
 identify the single point in time the DHSS can identify in which              
 information can be shared but it is not yet in the possession of              
 DHSS.  There is no involvement of the DHSS at this time, and                  
 therefore, federal funding is not jeopardized.                                
 MR. LINDSTROM fully anticipates a zero fiscal note on CSHB 104 as             
 it is currently presented.  Having said that, he knows the DFYS               
 shares the unease of the DOL and the DPS.  He does not know how to            
 get out of that box.  Under this bill, information would be                   
 released about a juvenile who has been charged with a crime by the            
 police.  If subsequent proceedings show the juvenile did not do               
 what was alleged, there is no opportunity to correct the record for           
 that juvenile.  It is an issue of fairness, and truly a balancing             
 Number 922                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony and opened committee                   
 discussion.  He said he is torn on the balancing act.  He has heard           
 from his constituents as well--they are tired of the serious                  
 juvenile offenders hiding in the system.  Co-Chair Bunde feels                
 (acknowledging he grew up in another era) that if the juvenile's              
 friends, peers, family members, etc., knew of the crime, they would           
 place public pressure on the juvenile.  Maybe that would save some            
 children from the pattern of unpunished behavior which escalates to           
 serious crime with serious consequences.                                      
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if the committee felt it was possible to write           
 intent language.  Where it says "may," the police department would            
 release information upon request, rather than release information             
 as a matter of course.                                                        
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said all that would need to be done is amend             
 the CS to state, after "may," "upon the request of interested                 
 parties," "...be disclosed."  There are a few things Representative           
 Brice would like to bring up.  First, juvenile misconduct does not            
 necessarily go unpunished.  It is not heard about because that                
 information is sealed.  However, the youth facilities are full.               
 The social workers are quite busy keeping up with these children.             
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that when the persons who damaged the              
 school in Fairbanks were apprehended, it was, as expected, a 21-              
 year-old and a 19-year-old who were fully disclosed.  Those two               
 were leading that group.                                                      
 Number 1055                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE understands the facilities are full.  Unfortunately,           
 he feels they are filled up with those who have committed a lot of            
 serious crime.  Co-Chair Bunde remembers testimony at a town                  
 meeting in Anchorage in which a 21-year-old said he began breaking            
 the law when he was about 13, and he would be in and out of the               
 youth facility before the paperwork was done.  It was a challenge             
 and a joke.  Human nature tends to be such that if you get away               
 with a little bit today, you will try a little bit more tomorrow.             
 That individual kept getting away with crimes until finally he was            
 placed in jail for one year.  It was serious.                                 
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said whether that man would have been one in which             
 the consequence of having his name disclosed would have affected              
 him is open to discussion.  However, that early intervention is               
 what Co-Chair Bunde is trying to reach.                                       
 Number 1117                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that HB 104 in no way addresses that.             
 He has continually asked the sponsor of this legislation to provide           
 some empirical proof.  This type of disclosure is being done in               
 other states.  Every time Representative Brice asks if this                   
 disclosure works, the sponsor's office does not know.  It would be            
 nice, if HESS Committee members are going to make decisions of this           
 magnitude, to at least have some understanding as to the                      
 effectiveness of the action.                                                  
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said Co-Chair Bunde brings out a very                    
 important point.  The system does not recognize juvenile problems             
 until it is too late.  He could not agree with Co-Chair Bunde more            
 about the need to address that problem.  However, he does not see             
 that publishing the names of possibly innocent people could be any            
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE felt the committee was in agreement right up to the            
 topic concerning whether disclosure is a deterrent, and whether               
 more good will be accomplished through disclosure.  Obviously, some           
 people will suffer.  However, will there be more good accomplished            
 than harm?  That is a question HESS Committee members must wrestle            
 Number 1202                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY has a lot of faith in the police department.  She             
 does not think the police are arresting teens who have just come              
 from a Boy Scout meeting.  They are arresting teens who are in                
 precarious positions.  This bill will address those kids, and shake           
 them up so they realize maybe they are going to be treated like               
 adults.  It is necessary.  Co-Chair Toohey feels it is about time             
 something is done, and she supports the bill.                                 
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Mourant how he felt on the proposed change           
 in the CS, that information "may be disclosed upon request."                  
 MR. MOURANT said that would be under Co-Chair Bunde's discretion.             
 He does not think the change is necessary because his office feels            
 police officers are carefully conducting their role in society and            
 their charge.  However, if the committee thinks it is in the best             
 interest of the public to put such an amendment in the bill, that             
 is entirely up to the committee's discretion.                                 
 Number 1260                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the Chair will propose just such an amendment,            
 and see what the wisdom of the committee determines.                          
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said on line 12, page 1, after "may" would be            
 an appropriate place for the amendment.                                       
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE agreed.  He suggested, "may be disclosed upon                  
 request," or "may, upon request, be disclosed by the entity."                 
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said the juvenile's name, date and place of offense           
 is going to be listed.  She asked if it was going to be made clear            
 in the police blotter that this was a juvenile.  She asked how the            
 public is going to know if the person is a juvenile.                          
 MR. MOURANT said the public will not know it is a juvenile.  The              
 age of the offender is not called for.                                        
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said therefore, a broken window is not going to be            
 public news.  A stabbing is public news, or of interest to the                
 newspaper.  A broken window would not necessarily be of interest to           
 the newspaper.                                                                
 MR. MOURANT would assume she is correct.                                      
 Number 1348                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE moved on page 1, line 12, the line be amended to               
 read, "...about the juvenile upon request may be disclosed by the             
 entity employing the peace officer...."                                       
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY spoke against the amendment.  He felt the                
 amendment only adds confusion.  He surmised that reporters only go            
 to the police station and ask for the police blotter.  They don't             
 ask that people be put in or taken out.  He does not feel the                 
 police will ask if the reporter wants the juvenile information                
 also, and the reporter will say, don't give me the names of the               
 nice children.                                                                
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said the reporter may, under this amendment,             
 have to name the juvenile he or she wants the information about.              
 The reporter would not have that information.                                 
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the reporter could, however, name the offense.            
 He would surmise that a major felony could occur that was of                  
 interest to the community.  That is where disclosure would be                 
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY felt unless HESS Committee members were                  
 successful in changing the law, vandalism in any degree is still a            
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said if the damage amounted to over $500, the                  
 vandalism is a felony.  Co-Chair Bunde said he has never been in              
 the news business, but he cannot imagine a reporter asking the                
 police to tell him/her about all the felony arrests made the                  
 previous night.  He feels reporters would request specific                    
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked what the reporters are going to request.           
 If there is not a police record, the reporters are not going to               
 know there was a crime.                                                       
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the police records are there, but the report is           
 not turned out as a press release.                                            
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said the bill does not allow for the police              
 records to be released.  It only allows for police blotter                    
 information to be released.  He submitted police reports for                  
 juveniles are not available under current law.                                
 Number 1489                                                                   
 MS. KNUTH noted that police departments do prepare police blotters.           
 That is a listing of all the arrests made in the last 24 hours.  If           
 the list contains juveniles, the names are crossed out.  Reporters            
 do go to the police and ask for lists.  If the statute was changed            
 to read, "upon request,"  that would be the type of request.  The             
 reporter would get the blotter that shows what all the arrests                
 were.  The reporter would then note that in certain cases of                  
 interest the names have been blocked out because the arrests                  
 involved minors.  He or she would then request the names.  The                
 reporter would then get the names.                                            
 MS. KNUTH said therefore, the "upon request," does not make                   
 disclosure discretionary.  It simply adds a layer of work to the              
 Number 1530                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked Ms. Knuth if that would, in turn, add to the            
 fiscal note.                                                                  
 MS. KNUTH felt expense would be added, but it would most likely be            
 municipal expense.                                                            
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said the state certainly does not want to pass that           
 cost onto the municipality.                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said his goal is to allow disclosure, but to                   
 minimize the impact in instances where disclosure was not                     
 MS. LUCAS said she cannot speak for local law enforcement as to how           
 much more work this would require.  She surmises it would result in           
 some additional work.  The additional language may slow down other            
 tasks in order to accommodate the requests.  If the information was           
 simply part of the police blotter, the reporter could request the             
 names of the juveniles if they were blocked out.                              
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE did not wish to have police departments "jumping               
 through hoops."  It appears that his amendment would not accomplish           
 what he is hoping to resolve.  He withdrew the amendment.                     
 Number 1600                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY moved CSSSHB 104(HES) be passed from the House           
 HESS committee with individual recommendations and accompanying               
 fiscal notes.  He added that the new fiscal notes should be zero.             
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE objected in order to make a quick point.  He             
 asked if the bill had not been passed from committee before.  He              
 asked what the difference was between HB 104 and HB 15.                       
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the previous bill addresses only schools.                 
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said that bill was HB 124, not HB 15.  HB 15             
 was Representative Therriault's bill, and it was moved from                   
 committee early in the session.  Representative Brice was concerned           
 the HESS Committee was repeating tasks.                                       
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY remembered Representative Therriault's bill              
 dealt with the release of records at a different stage in                     
 adjudication.  It did not deal with this particular section of the            
 Number 1654                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said when HB 104 came to the HESS Committee,             
 it dealt with the exact same stage of the process as Representative           
 Therriault's bill.  Representative Brice is concerned that efforts            
 are being duplicated, and time is being wasted.  He said both bills           
 are probably going to be going to the same committee, and that                
 would waste more time for those committees.                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE felt there was an important difference in the bills.           
 Representative Therriault's bill involved court records.  HB 104              
 involves arrest records.  HB 15 would run afoul with the federal              
 prohibitions, and would have millions of dollars of impact.                   
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE felt that was the point.  HB 104, in its                 
 earlier version, dealt with the exact same thing.                             
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said HB 15 dealt with court records.  That would               
 disclose information after the adjudication.  The state cannot                
 release information after the adjudication without serious federal            
 Number 1718                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the two bills were very close.  One has             
 been passed, and now another is going to be passed.  He asked why             
 the earlier bill cannot be changed in the committee in which it               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE could not predict the actions of another committee.            
 However, he did not feel these discussions wasted time.  If there             
 have been three bills about this topic by representatives                     
 reflecting the concerns of their various constituencies, this is              
 obviously an important issue to the people of Alaska.                         
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the problem is that one bill moves, not             
 all three.  The HESS Committee has already moved one bill.                    
 Number 1750                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE noted that at the time when that bill was moved, the           
 HESS Committee members thought there would be no impact on federal            
 funds.  However, because those problems cannot be addressed, the              
 bill is, in Co-Chair Bunde's mind, moot.  HB 104 has a zero fiscal            
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE withdrew his objection.                                  
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE reminded HESS Committee members there had been a               
 motion to move CSSSHB 104(HES) from committee with accompanying               
 fiscal notes, and the understanding that the fiscal notes will                
 change.  He expressed continuing frustration with the bill, but as            
 there was no objection to its passage, it passed.                             
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked Mr. Mourant to provide new fiscal notes to              
 the members of the Judiciary Committee, which is the next committee           
 of referral.                                                                  
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE adjourned the meeting at 3:25 p.m.                             

Document Name Date/Time Subjects