Legislature(1995 - 1996)
04/05/1995 06:06 PM House FSH
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
April 5, 1995
6:06 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman
Representative Carl Moses, Vice Chair
Representative Scott Ogan
Representative Gary Davis
Representative Kim Elton
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 265: "An Act relating to the export of live dungeness
crab."
HEARD AND HELD
*HB 256: "An Act authorizing the commissioner of fish and game to
establish free sport fishing days."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
HJR 38: Relating to reauthorization of the Magnuson Fishery
Conservation and Management Act.
SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
HB 284: "An Act relating to the Alaska Commercial Fishing and
Agriculture Bank."
BILL POSTPONED
(* First public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KELLY
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 513
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-2327
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 256
JOHN BURKE, Acting Director
Division of Sport Fish
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99802-5526
Phone: 465-6187
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 256
PETE ECKLUND, Administrative Assistant
Representative Bill Williams
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 128
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-3424
POSITION STATEMENT: Staff to Prime Sponsor of HB 265
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison
Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99811-5526
Phone: 465-6143
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 265 as amended
CHERYL SUTTON, Administrative Assistant
Representative Carl Moses
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 204
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-6848
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on HB 265
DON MUNHOVEN
P.O. Box 6335
Ketchikan, AK 99901
Phone: 225-5328
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 265
PATRICK KRISTOVICH
P.O. Box 23038
Ketchikan, AK 99901
Phone: None provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 265
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 265
SHORT TITLE: EXPORT OF DUNGENESS CRAB
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIAMS
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/17/95 778 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/17/95 778 (H) FSH, RESOURCES
03/22/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/22/95 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/29/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
04/05/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 256
SHORT TITLE: FREE SPORT FISHING DAYS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KELLY,Austerman
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/15/95 742 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/15/95 742 (H) FISHERIES, RESOURCES, FINANCE
03/29/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
04/05/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HJR 38
SHORT TITLE: MAGNUSON FISHERY CONSERVATION & MGMT ACT
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) AUSTERMAN,Navarre,Grussendorf
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/24/95 895 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/24/95 895 (H) FSH, RESOURCES
04/05/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 284
SHORT TITLE: AK COMMERCIAL FISHING & AGRICULTURE BANK
SPONSOR(S): SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
JRN-DATE JRN-DATE ACTION
03/27/95 933 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/27/95 933 (H) FSH, LABOR & COMMERCE, FINANCE
04/05/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-21, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN ALAN AUSTERMAN called the meeting to order at 6:10 p.m.
and noted for the record Representatives Davis, Ogan, Moses and
Elton were in attendance and that a quorum was present.
HB 256 - FREE SPORT FISHING DAYS
Number 013
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KELLY, PRIME SPONSOR, HB 256, testified, "This
is a fairly simple bill. It establishes a free fishing day in this
state. It directs the commissioner to appoint not more than two
days in which fishing can be participated in by the general public
without actually purchasing a license. The idea is just to promote
the idea of fishing and one would hope it would get more people
involved in it and they'll buy more licenses and we'll be able to
manage our fishing resources even better. "
Number 036
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS said, "I live on the Kenai River and I'm
wondering if you have a companion bill that discourages people from
fishing on certain days. (Laughter ensued.) I don't know is there
something out there that says people need to generate more interest
in sport fishing?"
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY said, "Forty four other states, I believe it
is, have this program. That doesn't necessarily mean that we
should have it but it's just considered a fun thing that people can
participate in and enjoy our natural resources even more than they
do now."
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN added that there are programs teaching children
to fish and it was this association which led him to sign on as
cosponsor to HB 256.
Number 082
JOHN BURKE, Director, Division of Sport Fish, Department of Fish
and Game (ADF&G), testified in support of HB 256. He said, "Free
fishing days offer people who do not ordinarily fish the
opportunity to experience sportfishing without the associated
expense of buying a license. A free fishing day in conjunction
with National Fishing Week activities, or winter fishing carnivals,
can certainly introduce or reacquaint people who otherwise wouldn't
have taken the opportunity. He added, "Free fishing days primarily
serve for us as an effective centerpiece for department sponsored
or assisted aquatic education activities. These programs primarily
focus on conservation concepts. They focus on young people who
aren't familiar with fishing and they focus on angler ethics. A
free fishing day serves as an attractant to bring people into these
programs."
MR. BURKE continued, "In Alaska, there's a number of family fishing
days that are held in the present time with these activities.
There are fairly large ones in Juneau and Fairbanks and Ketchikan,
on Prince of Wales Island. There may be others throughout the
state also." He added, "They've used these activities to promote
a number of things and obviously the war on drugs is something
everybody is very familiar with: `Hooked on Fish, not on Drugs.'"
He then described some of the educational concepts and processes.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN pointed out, "The family that slays together,
stays together."
Number 223
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS moved that HB 256 be moved from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections.
HB 265 - EXPORT OF DUNGENESS CRAB
PETE ECKLUND, Administrative Assistant to Representative Bill
Williams, testified, "Plain and simple HB 265 is an economic
development bill. Representative Williams introduced this bill in
response to a constituent who was struggling to develop a live crab
market in British Columbia. Currently, if you have an established
out-of-state live dungeness market, you are required by law to ship
your product through the air. Air transportation of live crab is
tricky and, in many cases, cost prohibitive. As we all know, there
are frequent weather and other delay problems associated with
flying in Alaska. These problems don't particularly lend
themselves to crab surviving the journey to the marketplace.
Despite these obstacles, air transportation is the only way to get
live crab to markets which are many miles away. There are markets
which are much nearer to Alaska that could be developed if the cost
of air transportation wasn't involved." Representative Williams
has constituents that are trying to make in-roads into the British
Columbia live dungeness market. Requiring them to airfreight their
catch to either Prince Rupert or Seattle has a crippling effect on
their ability to capture a place in the growing B.C. market. HB
265 would remove the air transportation only restriction when
shipping live dungeness crab out of state. This would allow
entrepreneurs to use other means when transporting dungeness crab
to the nearby markets of B.C. Lifting the restriction is
beneficial for a couple of different reasons. First, it would
lower costs. Second, it could improve the survivability of the
product on its way to market. Passage of HB 265 is just one small
step we can take to help Alaskans better compete in the
international marketplace."
REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON asked, "I noticed in the position paper
they said, `If you're doing this for dungeness, why not do it for
king and tanner?' Did the sponsor think about that?"
MR. ECKLUND responded, "We were, first of all, concerned just with
the dungeness crab because that's who our constituency was, that's
the market that they can access is the dungeness crab market. And
B.C. is close. So there's an advantage by maybe doing it by vessel
transportation or road through Hyder, possibly. So we didn't feel
necessarily that we had to lift the other restrictions also. But,
Fish and Game did recommend that possibly doing that, they didn't
see any problem with it. We've been checking around trying to see
if there will be any opposition to that and it's my understanding
that there may be some processors that have some initial
apprehension with that but I don't know, if we lifted the ban on
king crab, if somebody in the Aleutians would necessarily be able
to transport by boat to Japan, or to wherever. I don't know if
that is feasible, just because of the miles that would have to be
traveled. So I don't know if some of those processor's concerns
are valid or not."
Number 300
MR. ECKLUND continued, "Our office got a call from the Department
of Law last Friday and I believe there's a memo in your packet from
the Department of Law that kind of deals with that. I guess the
statute in the books pertaining to the restriction is from the late
60s and there's interstate commerce laws that came into effect
after that and the whole statute may be in conflict with the
interstate commerce laws that are on the books. I guess up to this
date, nobody has challenged that law in court and in the Department
of Law's memo they state that the state of Alaska may have a
defense if it wants to continue the restriction, may have a defense
in the area of health and safety concerns. But they recommended,
it kind of seems the Department of Law stated that dungeness crab
possibly has the most concern for PSP and other health and safety
issues and if we lifted the restriction for dungeness crab only
would weaken the possible defense for health and safety reasons."
Number 328
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN expressed concern that not all crab would be
reported by an exporter.
MR. ECKLUND indicated that there is a monitoring procedure in place
"and if somebody wanted to skirt around those, they would take the
risk of getting caught."
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, ADF&G, "I really don't think this
is any different than the situation we have now where you have
people air freighting salmon, for example, out of the state to
markets in Seattle or other places during the season. They're
required, before you directly market fish out of the state, you
have to comply with a number of steps and we've had very good
compliance with that. In fact, the Department of Revenue, I
believe in 1991, did an actual study of the fish tax and found that
the compliance was extremely high. And one of the things they have
to do is file with the Department of Fish and Game. We have to get
the fish tickets. They have to prepay a certain amount of tax.
There are a number of protections in place. And in the case of the
export of salmon from the state by catcher-processors, which has
become very common in the last ten years because of the poor salmon
prices in some seasons, so some fishermen are trying to go directly
to markets."
Number 374
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if a crab fisherman couldn't simply sell
crab off the dock in British Columbia.
MR. ECKLUND indicated that crab fisherman would have to obtain a
processor's license and meet a bonding requirement to sell that
way.
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked if the intent was to sell the crab to
processors or "grocery stores" in Canada. He added, "Are we
displacing product that would otherwise go to Alaska processors?"
MR. ECKLUND deferred to the teleconference participants and added
that there are currently no crab processors in Ketchikan and some
prevailing reluctance to participate in the live crab market due to
high air transportation costs and the mortality risk.
Number 414
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked, "Is there no live market because DEC is
requiring that the crab be sectioned because of PSP?"
MR. ECKLUND said he didn't believe DEC was the problem, just
economics.
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON pursued, "So if in fact DEC had restrictions
on the export of live crab due to PSP concerns, those restrictions
would apply whether the live crab were being sent to Prince Rupert
or being sent to Seattle?"
MR. ECKLUND replied, "It's my understanding that the way the
process works with DEC and PSP reporting is that fishermen send in
samples from the fishing grounds to DEC. They test for PSP. They
test for other things other than PSP also. It takes less than 24
hours. They get that information back to the fishing grounds
whether that area is acceptable or not. (Indisc.) And if it comes
back that it's not acceptable, then the fishermen are not supposed
sell crab from that area."
MR. BRUCE concurred and said, "The problem with PSP and dungeness
crab was only recently identified as a problem and it exists only
in certain parts of the crab and it's on an area specific basis the
way it's been handled as far as prohibiting the sale of live crab.
They sample the crab, find out if there is a problem and then
prohibit live sale."
Number 436
REPRESENTATIVE MOSES said shipping live crab out of Dutch Harbor
has been a real problem because the only place they can be tested
is a lab in Palmer.
CHERYL SUTTON, Administrative Assistant to Representative Moses,
interjected, "They do test. They test by different species and
it's broken out by area, in the state. They take, from vessels,
directly and they've a very small sample base and it's a little bit
of a problem right now for live shippers because they sample in,
the product goes to Palmer, it is not turned around in 24 hours.
Frequently, it's delayed sometimes up to several weeks. In the
meantime, as you know, a fishery is a short execution." She added,
"One person we're dealing with in particular, is a shipper who does
not have a processing license so she is not able to take crab she
has purchased live with the intent to ship live. (Indisc.) So for
her, it's a matter of commerce but it's not because of the cost of
shipping live crab which she has a huge market in Japan for live
crab. It's because the PSP margin program and the inadequacies of
the data collection and the turnaround for the data collection.
I'm working on this now. DEC is attempting to change the program
but I can see that they could have problems with live vessel
transports with the current monitoring program but they're hoping
to work some of these things out."
Number 470
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said these issues should be addressed by DEC,
although there was not an agency representative present, and voiced
concern about the contents of the Attorney General's letter.
DON MUNHOVEN testified via teleconference from Ketchikan saying,
"I'm a licensed processor and I've developed some markets here in
town for live shrimp and live crab down in Canada, down in British
Columbia and this is a problem we've run into. The last two years
we've been shipping live, running our own live shrimp or prawns
down to Prince Rupert and then they truck them down to Vancouver.
And they also truck crab down from Prince Rupert down to Vancouver.
So that developed a different idea here. We're trying to develop
different markets for fishermen here in Ketchikan and so we looked
into it and looked into it and ran into a little glitch here on
this law that we're trying to change to be able to transport or be
able to buy crab from the local fishermen and create markets and be
able to transport them live by boat." He then cited the expense of
packaging materials and mortality problems. He added, "Before you
even take any fish out of the state, you have to go through customs
and then you go and go through customs through British Columbia, or
through Canada and they give you an inspection. They check your
vessel and you have to have a landing permit before you can even
deliver crab, or any kind of seafood and then when you come back,
you come back to customs, deliver your fish tickets, your permits,
the whole nine yards so they really keep a close eye on how many
pounds you deliver, how many pounds you pick up or buy. If I buy
crab, I have to check with customs here before I even go to
Rupert."
Number 545
PAT KRISTOVICH, testified via teleconference from Ketchikan, he
said, "They don't have a DEC problem down there (Canada) with the
testing of crab. (Indisc.) We don't have a market, we're a
limited market here. One year we came in here and Silver Lining
was supposed to buy our crab. We came in with 1800 crab and they
said they're not going to buy them. We ended up putting 700 back
loose, overboard. (Indisc.) We have one market here and you can
flood that. You can't take care of two boats with any amount of
crab. Right now the Canadians are fishing on the grounds that we
were fishing at. In fact I picked up 70 Canadian pots on the
American side a week ago and they had 690 softshell and female crab
that the Vietnamese are fishing down and them people don't throw
anything back. So apparently the Canadian government doesn't care
about undersides or softshell. We're limited, we can't do this.
Our season closes the 28th and they don't have a season over there.
All I'm trying to say is, we're not looking for a longer season,
we're just looking for another market."
Number 574
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if shipping crab on a boat would be less
ideal than airfreighting.
MR. KRISTOVICH explained the cost of the boxes, shipping material,
handling and travel to the airport and the odds of getting the crab
"bumped." He said, "From where I'm fishing on the grounds, it's
only a five and a half to six hour run to Prince Rupert."
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked about the time when Mr. Kristovich
brought 1800 crab into Ketchikan but the processor wouldn't buy
them. He said, "When that happened, do you know whether there were
DEC regs in place that required sectioning because of PSP?
MR. KRISTOVICH said it was because of the DEC-PCP scare up north
that the processor did not want to purchase the crab. He added,
"They still won't have anything to do with them down here (in
Ketchikan.)"
Number 612
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS pointed out that for the Ketchikan area, this
legislation makes more sense due to its proximity to the Canadian
market versus other areas where nothing but air transport would be
viable.
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said he did not want to open "pandora's box" by
isolating dungeness crab.
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON voiced concern that all crab transported by
boat need and might not get the PCP tests by DEC.
Number 642
MR. ECKLUND said he thought that samples are sent in from each open
crabbing grounds.
MR. BRUCE added, "There is also preseason testing of (crabbing)
areas that occurs."
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN pointed out this bill could move to Resources
for further scrutiny.
REPRESENTATIVE MOSES asked if this restriction was removed on king
crab, if it would be difficult to control in the Bering Sea "where
they were hauling to Japan."
Number 696
MR. BRUCE said, "If a catcher vessel were marketing its own product
and taking it directly to Japan. They would have to have to go
through the same hoops that Mr. Munhoven described earlier. They
would have to get a processors license, they would have to file all
this paperwork, and they would have to report. They would have to
go through the same hoops. Whether or not there would be a greater
margin for someone to not report in that kind of situation where
they're taking it to Japan, I can only speculate."
REPRESENTATIVE MOSES said, "I can just envision a little black
market starting up," and asked if this was a far-fetched notion.
MR. BRUCE said, "I think administratively you could develop some of
them (controls) if you felt it was necessary. He then described
the differences between the king and dungeness crab fisheries.
TAPE 95-21, SIDE B
Number 005
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN suggested HB 265 not move but be fully explored
here in the Fisheries Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN agreed and adjourned the meeting at 6:50 p.m.
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