Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/07/1996 05:05 PM FSH
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES February 7, 1996 5:05 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman Representative Carl Moses, Vice Chairman Representative Scott Ogan Representative Kim Elton MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Gary Davis COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE BILL NO. 175 "An Act relating to sport fish guides; and providing for an effective date." - HEARD AND HELD HOUSE BILL NO. 118 "An Act relating to seafood marketing, to the definition of `seafood' for purposes of the Alaska Seafood Marketing Institute, and to an aquatic farm product marketing tax; and providing for an effective date." - BILL POSTPONED PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 175 SHORT TITLE: SPORT FISH GUIDE LICENSING SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) AUSTERMAN,Ivan JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 02/10/95 303 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 02/10/95 303 (H) FSH, RESOURCES, FINANCE 02/27/95 511 (H) COSPONSOR(S): IVAN 03/13/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124 03/13/95 (H) MINUTE(FSH) 03/29/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124 03/29/95 (H) MINUTE(FSH) 01/31/96 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124 01/31/96 (H) MINUTE(FSH) 02/07/96 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124 BILL: HB 118 SHORT TITLE: SEAFOOD MARKETING / AQUATIC PRODUCT TAX SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) AUSTERMAN JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/25/95 131 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 01/25/95 131 (H) FSH, L&C, FIN WITNESS REGISTER AMY DAUGHERTY, Legislative Staff to Representative Alan Austerman Alaska State Legislature Capitol, Room 434 Juneau, AK 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-4230 POSITION STATEMENT: Explained changes in CSHB 175, version K. ERIC STIRRUP, Owner Kodiak Western Charter P. O. Box 4123 Kodiak, AK 99615 Telephone: (907)486-2200 POSITION STATEMENT: Has concerns with CSHB 175, version K. BARBARA BINGHAM P. O. Box 6112 Sitka, AK 99835 Telephone: (907) 747-8883 POSITION STATEMENT: Wanted further clarification on CSHB 175.K. THERESA WEISER P. O. Box 2300 Sitka, AK 99835 Telephone: (07) 747-5777 POSITION STATEMENT: Has concerns with CSHB 175.K as written. KEN LARSON Sanity Charters 1071 Elizabeth Street North Pole, AK 99705 Telephone: (907) 488-2960 POSITION STATEMENT: Wanted further clarification on CSHB 175.K. DENNIS PETRIE 5901 Boondox Drive Salcha, AK 99714 Telephone: (907) 488-4589 POSITION STATEMENT: Asked for further clarification on CSHB 175.K. KEVIN DELANEY, Director Division of Sport Fish Department of Fish and Game 333 Raspberry Road Anchorage, AK 99518-1579 Telephone: (907) 267-2218 POSITION STATEMENT: Clarified & made recommendations to CSHB 175.K. MIKE KRAMER P. O. Box 73196 Fairbanks, AK 99707 Telephone: (907) 479-0860 POSITION STATEMENT: Has concerns with CSHB 175.K. KEN AULT, Owner Northern Alaska Fisheries P. O. Box 10104 Fairbanks, AK 99810 Telephone: (907) 457-4124 POSITION STATEMENT: Has concerns with CSHB 175.K. DENNIS KETCHUM, Charter Operator 2343 Second Avenue Ketchikan, AK 99901 Telephone: (907) 225-4232 POSITION STATEMENT: Wanted further clarification on CSHB 175.K. BARRY BRACKEN Kaleidoscope Cruises P. O. Box 1201 Petersburg, AK 99833 Telephone: (907) 772-3736 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 175.K. BUD HODSON, Chair Sport Fishing Guide/Charter Task Force 4852 Hunter Drive Anchorage, AK 99502 Telephone: (907) 243-8450 POSITION STATEMENT: Clarified & made recommendations to CSHB 175.K. PATRICK BOOKEY Luck of the Irish Charters P. O. Box 55194 North Pole, AK 99705 Telephone: (907) 488-9890 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed to CSHB 175.K as written. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 96-5, SIDE A Number 000 CHAIRMAN ALAN AUSTERMAN called the House Special Committee on Fisheries meeting to order at 5:05 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Austerman, Moses, Elton and Ogan. Representative Gary Davis was absent. HB 175 - SPORT FISH GUIDE LICENSE CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said that following the House Special Committee on Fisheries meeting of January 31, 1996, his office prepared a draft committee substitute, version "K," based on recommendations from that hearing. That committee substitute has been forwarded to all Legislative Information offices and the committee would hear testimony on the proposed amendments. Number 061 REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON moved that CS HB 175 "K" be adopted as the working document. Hearing no objection, it was so ordered. Number 102 AMY DAUGHERTY, Legislative Staff to Representative Alan Austerman, said version "K" incorporates several changes: (1) A `transporter' license is now included in the bill language for those who provide only transportation services to sport or personal use fishermen. If the Department of Fish and Game should choose, information derived from this sector could help portray the entire industry. (2) In this draft, the Department of Fish and Game is the only agency from which a sport fish guide license or operators or transporters license will be issued. There are pros and cons of consolidating the guide licensing effort which the sponsor wanted brought forward in discussion today. This may minimize coordination problems and provide for the one license proposal for the owner-operator guide. (3) All reference to subsistence has been omitted due to feedback from the Native community. (4) U. S. Citizenship was reestablished as a requirement to guide license. (5) Exception to definitions were removed as per George Utermohle, Legislative Legal, memorandum dated January 29, 1996. MS. DAUGHERTY said some definitions may need further expansion because the exceptions were removed, there may be loopholes and the chairman wants feedback on that as well. MS. DAUGHERTY said there were nine amendments to HB 175, some drafted by legislative legal and some drafted by staff. These amendments have been transmitted to all Legislative Information offices. Number 290 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked for more clarification on the "transporter" license. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said the "transporter license" begins on page 5, line ten. He said the fly-in industry has a large impact on the fisheries as well as the charter boat operations. He said this was included for discussion purposes and for possible inclusion in the bill. It is basically patterned after the big game statutes. Number 488 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said, of the transporters who are licensed under the Division of Occupational Licensing to transport for big game, the hunters currently have to have a transporter's license and are issued a sticker for the airplane. He asked if this "transporter license" would be in addition to the big game license. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said his intent is to have fisheries and game on the same transporter license form. He said it is a matter of establishing a reporting system. Number 580 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN discussed with the chairman the committee's goal of consolidating licensing under just the Department of Fish and Game. Number 734 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN brought forward the additional amendments and addressed amendment K.1: Page 4, lines 23 - 24. Delete all material and insert: "3) a driver's license or similar identification card issued by a state of federal agency that bears a photograph of the fishing guide." CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said his office has received input regarding the amendment that the stipulation is probably more than what is required. He said the committee is recommending that it be deleted and renumbered accordingly. Number 798 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON clarified that it was the chairman's intent on page 4, lines 23 - 24, to delete all material and insert the amendment. Representative Elton moved that amendment K.1 be adopted. Number 830 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked for further discussion on the amendment. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said the amendment cleans up the statute. Hearing no objection, amendment K.1 was adopted. Number 884 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN brought forth amendment K.2: Page 4, line 17, after "fishing," Insert "from a vessel" Page 6, line 19, delete "accompanying and." Number 929 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON moved to adopt amendment K.2, but first asked clarification of the language on page 6, line 19. MS. DAUGHERTY said the intent was to remove the requirement that the guide had to be physically present at all times. Number 1080 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN clarified that the language meant the guide had to be present with a sport or personal use fisherman while fishing from a vessel. But on land, the sport fisherman could meander off and do his own fishing. 1148 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said hearing no objection, amendment K.2 was adopted. He brought forward amendment number three. Page 4, line 1, after `issued", insert "if required" The chairman elaborated that this amendment pertains to a situation of guiding on the river, or raft fishing or in a canoe; a guide is not required to have a Coast Guard license. Number 1200 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked, what about a guide who is flying to the lake; lands on the lake, provides the service and leaves? CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said the Coast Guard does not require a six-pack license at present. He said there are requirements under 14 C.F.R. Part 135 that cover aircraft and would come under the transporter license. Number 1260 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN cited AS 16.40.360 and theorized that a guide was discovered without a transporter license or an identification card. Is this an offense that is administratively disciplined or is it a public safety violation? Number 1374 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN discussed the role of the Department of Commerce and Economic Development and the Department of Natural Resources concerning possibilities of enforcement regulations. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said budget restraints are a big factor. Number 1451 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN referred to page 6, line 5 (c) A person who violates AS 16.40.350 - 16.40.90 or a regulation adopted under AS 16.40.350 - 16.40.390 is guilty of a class A misdemeanor. Number 1501 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN discussed the second part of amendment number three. Page 4, line 30. after "licensure", insert "if required,". Number 1525 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON moved to adopt amendment number three. Hearing no objections, it was so ordered. Number 1540 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said amendment number four was basically a housekeeping measure to clean up a typographical error: Page 2, line 18, after "shall", insert ", in addition to the penalty imposed by law," Number 1591 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON moved to adopt amendment number four. Hearing no objections, it was so ordered. Number 1615 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if this amendment was "double jeopardy?' It was not. Number 1659 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN brought amendment number five to the table: Page 4, delete lines 4 and 5 and renumber accordingly. Number 1697 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said there was concern that the present language stipulated that an individual had to be an employee of a licensed fishing service operator to obtain a guide license. This amendment eliminates having to provide proof to obtain a guide license, such as a commercial fishermen who gets a commercial license and then goes out on whatever boat he wants to go on. Number 1779 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON moved amendment number five. Hearing no objection, it was so ordered. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN brought amendment number six to the table and explained that the language change meant that the Alaska Marine Highway system will be covered as well. Page 6, line 11, delete "road", insert "highway as defined under AS 19.45.001 (9)" Number 1817 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON moved to adopt amendment number six for the purpose of discussion. He wanted further clarification about the intent of the language change, "not reasonably accessible by foot from the state highway system." CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN responded that the language was intended for areas like Pelican and Elfin Cove. Hearing no objection, it was so ordered. Number 1920 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN requested that witnesses on the teleconference network keep their testimony to the draft committee substitute, version K, and the nine amendments just adopted. Number 1954 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN referred to the second part of amendment number two: Page 6, line 19, delete "accompanying and." He felt this action could be a major point of contention between a transporter and a guide. He said it could keep people from getting their guide license unless they fished from their boat. Number 2070 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN responded to Representative Ogan that CSHB 175 is a working document and is not expected to move from committee at this meeting. He expressed his willingness to improve the bill and appreciated language changes to do that. He reiterated his intent in sponsoring HB 175 is to set up a reporting system on the number of fish that are being caught so the state has a grasp on what the sport industry is doing. Number 2100 ERIC STIRRUP testified from Kodiak stating that he takes exception to having to acquire three different licenses. He expressed concern with the lack of enforcement concerning the transporter issues. He recommended the deletion of line 16, page 4, (d) A fishing guide shall be physically present while a client is engaged in sport or personal use fishing. He said this is not the big game guiding industry, it is not a public safety issue bill and asked clarification of the language "physically present." He also recommended the deletion of amendment number six saying, nobody is going to step off the state ferry and go fishing in salt water. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked Mr. Stirrup to look at amendment K.2 on page 6, line 19. He said the deletion of "accompanying and" might take care of one concern. Number 2293 MR. STIRRUP felt that parts of the draft are unnecessary. There is a certain amount of self responsibility here. He encouraged the committee to keep the bill simple. Number 2339 BARBARA BINGHAM testified from Sitka asking for more information on the transporter license. She said she has both an operator and a guide license for recreational purposes. She provides a drop-off service to park service cabins and hiking, to persons who may or may not fish, and wanted to know if she needs a transporter license as well. MS. BINGHAM wanted further clarification on page 4, line 16 about the guide being physically present from vessels. She wanted to know how the language affects "mother ships." For example, a sport fisherman who leaves a vessel and casually drops a line off the pier. Number 2405 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said his intention with the transporter license is primarily directed toward people who are transporting and not guiding. If you have an operators license, you do not necessarily need a transporter license. He said the committee had not addressed the "mother ship" concept in HB 175. MS. BINGHAM quoted "a fishing guide shall be physically present while the client is engaged in sport or personal use fishing" from a vessel. She said she had worked on a boat where sport fishermen were allowed to fish by themselves from a skiff without the operator's presence. She said it sounds like this bill eliminates that or makes it illegal. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said Ms. Bingham was correct that the committee had not addressed the mother ship concept. He said the committee would discuss it and try to fix it. MS. BINGHAM said there are two things she likes about HB 175. It eliminates the number of speculators, and it separates guides and guiding from the commercial fishing industry. Number 2480 THERESA WEISER testified from Sitka referencing page 2, lines 12-14 and lines 18 and 19, and said she had concerns with the way the language is drafted. CHANGE TAPE TAPE 96-5, SIDE B Number 000 MS. WEISER said she would hate to see somebody have their business seriously impacted by the loss of their license for an innocent mistake when they had no intention of breaking the law. She reference page 3, line 18, the annual minimum coverage of $300,000, saying that amount is not very much when considering what is taking place in legal circles today. She said she questioned the transporter license issue. It is redundant and maybe it needs to be more clearly clarified. Number 073 KEN LARSON testified from Anchorage and clarified that a fishing service who has an operator and a fishing guide license, that service is also covered for transporting people who are fishing off of the boat and that a transporter license is not required beyond that. Number 103 DENNIS PETRIE testified from Fairbanks questioning that he, as an owner and operator, would need a fishing service operators license and a fishing guide license. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN replied that if you are an operator, you need that license and not the guide license. MR. PETRIE figuratively asked if he had a booking service, would he need a fishing service operator license to book other charter boats? CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN responded that was correct, if the operation included guiding fishermen. Number 170 MIKE KRAMER testified from Fairbanks discussing the committee's intent to push this bill through. He referenced the original version of HB 175 and presented a revenue strategy for raising revenues. He said nonresident sports fish guide licenses are about $600.00 and a resident sport fish license costs about $200.00 with basically no restrictions on who is eligible. He stated that there should be a legal opinion on the disparity between resident and nonresident licenses. The license fee should be uniform. MR. KRAMER referenced amendment number three regarding the Coast Guard license. He said there are areas of the Interior that the Coast Guard has absolutely no jurisdiction on or concern with what license an operator has. MR. KRAMER talked about a $300,000 insurance minimum for operating on wild and scenic rivers and the implications of keeping the small time operators down and keeping new operators out of the business. MR. KRAMER mentioned an earlier comment about distinguishing between sport fish guides and the commercial fisheries division, he said he does not see how HB 175 is going to do that. He said he is curious to hear from Chairman Austerman whether HB 175 will separate us from the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission. If the bill passes will we still be required to sign up with the entry commission and get our triangles for $35.00 for river boats or rafts. He implied that the Department of Fish and Game had as much data as it can assimilate and the biologists are not interested in reporting grayling in a stream. MR. KRAMER expressed another concern regarding guides not being able to contract with clients. He said this has a potential for abuse and cannot see why a guide who meets someone on a riverbank and agrees to take them fishing needs an operators license. Number 411 KEN AULT testified from Fairbanks questioning why the Department of Fish and Game allowed the registration system to work. He stated that last year was the first year of this system and he felt that the department should work with this system and it might possibly provide the information that they need. MR. AULT referred to the Coast Guard licenses that would be required for rafts or small rentals and wondered how that figures into the licensing scheme. MR. AULT recommended that the entire bill be scrapped. He felt the added cost in time and money to the guide and the added cost to the state of Alaska, in increased bureaucracy, will not outweighed by any of the proposed benefits. Number 462 DENNIS KETCHUM testified from Ketchikan and wanted further clarification that an owner/operator would only have to hold the operators license and referred to page 3, line 25 (d). He said the intent of that language is confusing. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN replied that Mr. Ketchum is correct and it is the committee's intent to remove it from the draft committee substitute. MR. KETCHUM cited Alaska Administrative Code, 5 ACC 46.55 regarding Southeast Alaska management plans. Under section (g), the commissioner may adopt regulations that establish a mandatory law program for operator and charter vessels for outfitters or proponents of (indisc.). He said the code should be broadened to cover all species. Number 551 MR. KETCHUM wondered how many operators in Southeast have to be registered. He said he had a 10 page copy of all the owners and operators in Southeast with all pertinent data. He inferred that the Department of Fish and Game will have to hire more people to file the information required by this bill. MR. KETCHUM cited 5 AAC 46.55 and talked about enforcement issues for possible misdemeanors. Number 642 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN requested that Mr. Ketchum forward the statutes he cited from the Alaska King Salmon Management Plan. Number 670 BARRY BRACKEN testified from Petersburg and thanked the House Special Committee on Fisheries for sticking with this project. He said the revised draft is closer to what he envisions as a fair and equitable license program for the sports charter industry. MR. BRACKEN asked clarification that licensing under the Department of Commerce and Economic Development are dropped and all licenses will be issued by the Department of Fish and Game. He said he supports that approach, but suggested the committee consider some intent language to make sure that, at least, some of the licensing fees are dedicated to the Division of Sports Fish to cover the cost of monitoring this program and collecting the information that we all feel is important to make this worthwhile. MR. BRACKEN felt the addition of the transporter license closes a large loop-hole, but it also creates some confusion. He suggested retaining a "service operator license" separate from the sports fish guide license in order to track the individuals who are just service operators and those who are also sport fish guides. MR. BRACKEN also expressed some concern with the 1996 registration form and said he saw no reference to the registration form in the revised bill. He felt the form could be modified to provide more meaningful information. He said the 1996 form has no designated place for the Alaska Business License or a place to indicate whether you are a service operator or a guide or both. It also does not require a Coast Guard license number either. Number 839 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said it was not the committee's intent to create more paperwork and suggested that the ADF&G methodology of handing out licenses could be refigured as a way of keeping track. Number 853 BUD HODSON, Chair, Sport Fishing Guide/Charter Task Force referred to amendment K.2, page 6, line 19. Delete "accompanying and." He felt the definition of the word "accompanying" should remain in the definition of a fishing guide. He said the confusion is on page 4, line 16 (d). He explained that the intent of that line came from task force actions when they dropped the age requirement and said that assistants and deck hands do not need to have a license as long as they are in the direct presence of a fishing guide. MR. HODSON reemphasized that the words "accompanying and" remain in the definition of a fishing guide. MR. HODSON further stressed the importance of the inclusion of "outfitting" and referred to page 7, line 6. He said by including the terminology of "outfitting" you encompass all those people who provide services such as setting up camp, accommodating people, and running them around in a vessel. MR. HODSON referenced earlier discussion on the "road system" and said in the committee substitute the term, "in the field" is also used in the definition of transportation. Number 1035 MR. HODSON said some thought needs to be given to whether the committee wants Kodiak and all of the coast communities serviced by the ferry system now, not be in the field because of the outfitting possibilities. He suggested that further thought should also be given to what the "road system" language really means and how it ties into the bill. MR. HODSON felt the last thing the committee wanted to do was to pass a statute that licenses fishing guides, but leaves a huge gap where some operators do not have to get a license because they may not be "in the field" by definition. Number 1088 MR. HODSON said there is a transporters licensing requirement currently in statute. It is for big game hunting guides and it seems logical that that intent apply to this and two different categories of transporters are not created. MR. HODSON clarified that sport fishing lodges, or fly-out lodges, are not required by the FAA to have a C.F.R. Part 135 certificate. He said they operate under a "Part 91" and can not get a transporters license without a C.F.R. 135 certificate, but they could easily become a sport fishing services operator. MR. HODSON commented about the penalties and violations on line 18, page 2. He said does not know of commercial fisheries or any other industry where there are two strikes and you are out, especially for two unintentional strikes. He suggested that the committee look at a fine system or identify that there has to be a major type of violation before you pull these licenses and do not allow them to operate. He said these violations are harsh and the industry will be extremely vocal about it. Number 1200 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN referred to Mr. Hodson's testimony about sport fish lodges operating under a C.F.R. Part 91. MR. HODSON said Part 91 refers to general aviation. Part 135 is for commercial operators, such as Wings of Alaska. Number 1290 KEVIN DELANEY. Director, Division of Sport Fish, Department of Fish and Game addressed Mr. Ketchum's testimony regarding the Alaska King Salmon Management Plans where the commissioner can adopt a requirement for guides to keep a log book. If the Department were to pursue the reporting system in that manner, it would require the Board of Fisheries to go through a fishery-by-fishery basis or a region-by-region basis. He said one of the strengths of this plan is that you go statewide all at one time. He said Mr. Ketchum was correct in that the department does have the power to adopt those regulations. Number 1380 PATRICK BOOKEY said he wanted to testify in opposition to the language on page 2, lines 16-18, "upon subsequent convictions." He said the state currently has an uneven distribution of enforcement personnel and this procedure will apply only to a limited number of people and put an unfair burden on the areas where there is enforcement. He recommended that the committee further research this area and either remove it or rewrite it. MR. BOOKEY referenced page 7, line 6 concerning "outfitting." He said nowhere else in the bill is outfitting mentioned and asked if the intent was to pick up the bare boned lodge operators or whoever buys the equipment for fishermen. REPRESENTATIVE ELTON referred to page 2, lines 27 and 28 which makes some of the information that is collected under this bill proprietary. He referred to the provisions of 16.40.36 (f) and said he can see why some of that information is proprietary, and said he is not sure if it is in the best interests of individual guides or operators to indicate how many fish they caught and where they caught them. He expressed concern that this exclusion may preclude the department from totalling up the number of fish and the number of guides and then saying this is the number of guides and the number of fish that were caught. REPRESENTATIVE ELTON commented that the information the language is keeping proprietary includes just the penalty section of the definition section. He said he would check this issue before the next hearing on HB 175. He said this would also keep license information proprietary. Number 1667 MR. DELANEY referred to page 5, line 1 (f) and said one concern of the Department of Fish and Game is the obligation to collect information on the number of salmon, halibut and other fish taken, in all cases, at all times. He said at certain times, it would not be useful or cost effective to collect this information. Number 1750 MR. DELANEY recommended the committee change the word "shall" to "may" on page 5, line 1 (f). CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN responded that the original intent of the bill was for the Department of Fish and Game to collect the information. He asked Mr. Delaney if the words "and other fish" were deleted, would that simplify his concern. MR. DELANEY responded that would help. CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN recommended the inclusion of the words "as needed" after "and other fish." MR. DELANEY said that language was grasping the point. He stated that he would not want to be in a situation where it is neither cost effective or necessary. He said the department would be happy to work with the committee on that issue. REPRESENTATIVE ELTON suggested a possible solution is to change the language to "shall collect salmon and halibut" and "may collect, at the department's discretion, on other species." Number 1945 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said the committee would take all the testimony and recommendations into consideration. He announced that all Legislative Information offices would receive a copy of the new committee substitute prior to the next hearing on CSHB 175. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to come before the House Special Committee on Fisheries, Chairman Austerman adjourned the meeting at 6:33 p.m.