Legislature(1995 - 1996)
04/16/1996 08:20 AM House FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
April 16, 1996
8:20 A.M.
TAPE HFC 96-122, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 96-122, Side 2, #000 - #471.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Mark Hanley called the House Finance Committee
meeting to order at 8:20 a.m.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Hanley Representative Martin
Co-Chair Foster Representative Mulder
Representative Brown Representative Navarre
Representative Grussendorf Representative Parnell
Representative Kelly Representative Therriault
Representative Kohring
ALSO PRESENT
Representative Alan Austerman; Kevin Delaney, Director,
Division of Sport Fish; Bruce Geron, Legislative Liaison,
Department of Fish and Game; Gary Hull, Guide, Kenai; Joe
Harding, Kenai; Jeff King, Kenai.
SUMMARY
HB 175 An Act relating to sport fish guides; and
providing for an effective date.
CSHB 175 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with
"no recommendation" Department of Fish and Game.
HB 267 An Act relating to review and expiration of
regulations; and providing for an effective date.
HB 267 was rescheduled to another time.
HB 543 An Act establishing a preference when entering
into state airport land leases.
HB 543 was rescheduled to another time.
HOUSE BILL NO. 175
"An Act relating to sport fish guides; and providing
for an effective date."
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REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN, SPONSOR, stated he would be
available for discussion regarding amendments offered on HB
175.
Representative Mulder MOVED to adopt Amendment 1, 9-
LS0664\U.3 (copy on file). Amendment 1 relates to
compensation of vendors of fish and game licenses and tags.
He explained that the amendment would allow money collected
by an agent to be assigned to a nonprofit involved in fish
or game. Money collected by the Department of Fish and Game
could go directly to the charity. He noted that sport fish
and hunting groups support Amendment 1.
Co-Chair Hanley questioned if the amendment would require
additional paper work by the Department.
GERON BRUCE, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND
GAME observed that another piece of legislation has been
introduced that would allow the vendor to retain all of the
compensation without going through the Department of Fish
and Game. He stressed that if this legislation is enacted
Amendment 1 would be superseded. He observed that the
Department would write the check to the nonprofit. He
suggested that consistency with federal provisions be
reviewed.
Representative Brown asked if the amendment would add fiscal
impact to the Department. Representative Mulder stated that
he did not anticipate a fiscal note. He pointed out that
the Department would still send the agent a check if it is
not sent to a non-profit. Representative Brown pointed out
that the funds could be portioned and assigned to more than
one party. She suggested that the administrative cost come
out of the vendors share.
Representative Mulder WITHDREW Amendment 1. He noted his
intention to offer the amendment on the House floor. Co-
Chair Hanley suggested that the amendment take into
consideration the possible enactment of other legislation.
KEVIN DELANEY, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF SPORT FISH, DEPARTMENT
OF FISH AND GAME discussed Amendment 2, by the Department
(copy on file). He noted that the amendment would be
inserted on page 2, line 17. The amendment clarifies the
type of information that would remain confidential. Records
or reports that do not identify individual sport fishing
operators or the specific locations where the fish have been
taken are public information.
Representative Brown suggested the language, "information,
except aggregated data that do not identify individual
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operators or guides." She questioned why "guides" are not
identified.
Mr. Delaney clarified that operators are responsible for
supplying the information. Representative Mulder pointed
out that operators are responsible for the guides.
In response to comments by Representative Mulder, Mr.
Delaney clarified that the information can be compiled
during the season for collection at the end of the season.
He added that the fiscal note could be reduced to five
months of accounting work, and eight months for a fishery
biologist II, for a total of $61.5 thousand dollars.
Representative Mulder asked how in-season information
demands in Southeast Alaska would be handled. Mr. Delaney
noted that the Department is required to keep a running
estimation of harvest of king salmon to comply with the
harvest quota.
Members were provided with Amendment 2A, 9-LS0664\U.6 (copy
on file). Amendment 2A addresses the same issue as
Amendment 2.
GARY HULL, KENAI testified via the teleconference network.
He suggested that individuals be required to have been in
Alaska for three of the last five years to obtain an
operator's license. He emphasized that this amendment would
ensure local hire and knowledge of Alaskan fisheries.
Representative Martin questioned the cost of insurance. Mr.
Hull noted that he pays $1100 dollars for 6 months of
liability for clients, property and himself.
JOE HARDY, KENAI testified via the teleconference network.
He spoke in support of the legislation. He agreed that
qualification licenses should require that licensees live in
Alaska for three of the last five years. He added that the
licensee should also be at least 18 years of age. He
stressed that a minimum of Alaskan expertise should be
required.
JEFF KING, KENAI testified via the teleconference network.
He maintained that the Department of Fish and Game must be
flexible and creative in regards to the collection of data
provided by the legislation.
Representative Martin asked if other states require log
books. Mr. King did not know. He stressed that information
in log books is not always accurate.
Representative Mulder noted fears that data could be used
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against guides and sport fisherman in justification for
restrictions. Mr. King stressed that accurate information
is important. He acknowledged that data can be used for
political purposes. He expressed faith in the Department of
Fish and Game.
Representative Grussendorf observed that log books are used
by trollers. He noted that the trollers have expressed
support for the use of log books. He noted the need to keep
information regarding harvest locations confidential.
Mr. Delaney noted that the Department anticipates collecting
information from operators. He stated that the addition of
guide in Amendment 2A is not problematic. He expressed
support for Amendment 2A.
Representative Mulder MOVED to adopt Amendment 2A. In
response to questions by Representatives Martin and
Grussendorf, Co-Chair Hanley clarified that Amendment 2A
would keep the specific location confidential. There being
NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Kelly MOVED to adopt Amendment 3, 9-
LS0664\U.4 (copy on file). He explained that the amendment
would recognize the value of game for other than consumptive
use. He observed that there has been movement toward
cutting resources for non-consumptive uses out of the
Department of Fish and Game. He asserted that the amendment
would assure that eco-tourism guides would be assure
representation within the Department of Fish and Game
budget. He maintained that the amendment will help identify
eco-tourism guides and allow use decisions to be based on
actual contributions in the area. He stated that the Alaska
Outdoor Council is in support of the effort to get
wilderness activity into the process of paying fees.
Representative Kelly observed that a 1959 Alaska statute
identified non-consumptive users as guides. He maintained
that non-consumptive users should be included "at the table"
and pay their own way. Amendment 3 would add outdoor
wilderness activity guides to the list of guides required to
obtain a license. He observed that activities conducted on
a cruise ship or aircraft are exempted. The amendment also
defines "outdoor wilderness" as off road activity.
Representative Grussendorf noted that some operator guides
may spend time in other outdoor activities with clients
after fishing. Representative Kelly clarified that
individuals that hold an operator or guide license are
exempt under subsection (d).
Representative Kelly noted that the intent is that
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individuals only pay once.
(Tape Change, HFC 96-122, Side 2)
Representative Kelly stressed that fish and game operators
would not need an additional wilderness license.
Co-Chair Hanley thought that operations in the Wonder Lake
area would need to be licenced since it is 30 miles off the
state road system. Representative Kelly noted that it is
not the intent of the amendment to require licenses for
these operations. Co-Chair Hanley questioned if a pilot
would be required to obtain a license if they drop
individuals off at a wilderness lodge and accompany them to
the lodge. He added that some white water operations are
accessible from the road system and could be exempted.
Representative Martin expressed concern with the cost of
insurance for eco-tourism guides. Representative Kelly
stressed that the State is funding non-consumptive uses. He
maintained that non-consumptive uses should share in the
expense.
Representative Kelly clarified that wilderness guides would
not supply data on resources to the State. He stressed the
purpose of their inclusion is to assess the non-consumptive
use of state resources for allocation purposes. He
clarified that the amendment would require an operator's
fee.
Representative Austerman acknowledged the concerns addressed
by Amendment 3, but noted that the issue has not been
previously discussed in the context of HB 175. He expressed
concern that Amendment 3 would interfere with the enactment
of the legislation.
Mr. Bruce stated that the Department of Fish and Game is
actively seeking, with support from the Governor,
alternative funding for non-consumptive programs. He noted
that the Governor has endorsed the initiative being brought
forth by the International Association of Fish and Wildlife
at the national level to support wildlife diversity funding
that would operate similar to the Federal Aid to Wildlife
Restoration. This would result in greater revenues to the
state of Alaska than Alaskans would pay as their portion of
this national tax. He stressed that time is needed to
generate a state proposal that will not be burdensome to the
industry, but will collect the revenues needed to run the
programs.
Mr. Bruce pointed out that the amendment does not look at
the body of users as a revenue source. He emphasized that
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the users place the primary demand on the resource. He did
not think the amendment would raise significant revenue.
Mr. Bruce noted that HB 175 is primarily a data collection
bill. It is not designed to pay for the operational cost of
fish management programs in the State in general. It is
designed to pay the cost of the collection of information
provided by the guides. He pointed out that the main
revenue generating mechanism for sport fish management is
the individual user's license fee and federal funding. He
emphasized the need to find a funding mechanism for non-
consumptive uses that mirrors these broad based mechanisms.
Representative Kelly stated that he does not support a tent
tax. He maintained that hunters pay at a high level. He
argued in support of Amendment 3.
Representative Austerman reiterated that HB 175 is strictly
geared toward sport fishing. He suggested that Amendment 3
be tied to other legislation.
Representative Kelly WITHDREW Amendment 3.
Representative Navarre did not offer Amendment 4, 9-
LS0664\U.5 (copy on file). Amendment 4 would have required
that guides hold an Alaska sport fishing license or be
engaged in sport fishing in Alaska for three of the five
years preceding the issuance of a license. He stated that
there is some question if the amendment would create
problems for ocean going guide services.
Representative Mulder noted that there is a problem with
non-residents that operate in Southeast Alaska without
licenses. He suggested that Amendment 4 could be limited to
500,000 angler days.
Representative Martin expressed concern that small operators
will be adversely affected by insurance requirements.
Representative Mulder suggested that respondents not be
specifically named. He encouraged anonymous reporting.
Representative Mulder MOVED to report CSHB 175 (FIN) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal note. Representative Martin OBJECTED.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Brown, Grussendorf, Navarre, Kelly, Kohring,
Martin, Mulder, Therriault, Hanley
OPPOSED: Martin
Representatives Parnell and Foster were absent from the
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vote.
The MOTION PASSED (8-1).
CSHB 175 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no
recommendation" Department of Fish and Game.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 9:30 a.m.
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