Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/24/1996 01:50 PM FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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                     HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                   
                         April 24, 1996                                        
                            1:50 P.M.                                          
                                                                               
  TAPE HFC 96-135, Side 1, #000 - end.                                         
  TAPE HFC 96-135, Side 2, #000 - end.                                         
  TAPE HFC 96-136, Side 1, #000 - #351.                                        
                                                                               
  CALL TO ORDER                                                                
                                                                               
  Co-Chair  Mark  Hanley called  the  House Finance  Committee                 
  meeting to order at 1:50 p.m.                                                
                                                                               
  PRESENT                                                                      
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Hanley               Representative Martin                          
  Co-Chair Foster               Representative Mulder                          
  Representative Brown                                                         
  Representative Grussendorf    Representative Parnell                         
  Representative Kelly          Representative Therriault                      
  Representative Kohring                                                       
                                                                               
  Representative Navarre was absent from the meeting.                          
                                                                               
  ALSO PRESENT                                                                 
                                                                               
  Representative  Joe   Green;    Mark   Boyer,  Commissioner,                 
  Department  of Administration;  Duane  Buell, Juneau;  Helen                 
  Merhrkens,  Department  of  Education;  Wendy Redmond,  Vice                 
  President, University of Alaska; Brett Huber, Staff, Senator                 
  Green; Del Smith, Deputy  Commissioner, Department of Public                 
  Safety; Tess  Lanum,  Alaska  PTA;  Ed  Knoebel,  Glenallen,                 
  Patrick Gullufsen, Assistant Attorney General, Department of                 
  Law.                                                                         
                                                                               
  SUMMARY                                                                      
                                                                               
  HB 545    An Act relating to the cost-of-living differential                 
            for certain public employees residing in the state                 
            and the  criteria for determining  eligibility for                 
            the differential; and  providing for an  effective                 
            date.                                                              
                                                                               
            CSHB 545 (FIN) was reported  out of Committee with                 
            a  "do pass"  recommendation and  with three  zero                 
            fiscal notes by  the Department of Administration,                 
            the Department of  Revenue, and the Department  of                 
            Transportation  and  Public Facilities,  all dated                 
            3/22/96.                                                           
                                                                               
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  SB 80     An Act relating to police protection service areas                 
            in   unified   municipalities;   and   to   police                 
            protection  provided  by   the  state  in  certain                 
            municipal areas.                                                   
                                                                               
            SB 80 was rescheduled to another time.                             
  SB 177    An  Act  relating  to permits  to  carry concealed                 
            handguns.                                                          
                                                                               
            HCS CSSB 177  (FIN) was reported out  of Committee                 
            with a "do pass" recommendation  and with a fiscal                 
            impact  note by  the Department of  Public Safety,                 
            dated  4\11\96;  a   zero  fiscal   note  by   the                 
            Department  of Corrections,  dated 3/26/96;  and a                 
            zero fiscal note  by the Department of  Law, dated                 
            3/6/96.                                                            
  SCR 29    Objecting  to  the Department  of Administration's                 
            settlement with  certain employees  of the  Alaska                 
            marine highway system.                                             
                                                                               
            SCR 29 was rescheduled to another time.                            
  HOUSE BILL NO. 545                                                           
                                                                               
       "An Act relating to the cost-of-living differential for                 
       certain public employees residing in  the state and the                 
       criteria   for   determining   eligibility    for   the                 
       differential; and providing for an effective date."                     
                                                                               
  PAT GULLUFSEN, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF LAW                 
  noted that  HB 545 was  introduced by the  Administration in                 
  order to clarify  the definition  of residency  for Cost  of                 
  Living  Differentials  (COLD)  for  Alaska  Marine   Highway                 
  employees.   He observed  that HB 545  adopts the  permanent                 
  fund dividend  definition of  resident for  purposes of  the                 
  COLD.    The definition  was  altered  by the  insertion  of                 
  "temporarily" as requested by the Administration.  The House                 
  State Affairs  Committee also  deleted from  the temporarily                 
  allowable allowances exemptions  for serving in  Congress or                 
  the  Peace Corps.  He  noted that HB  545 clarifies that the                 
  criteria  is  not  subject to  bargaining  under  the Public                 
  Employees Retirement Act (PERA).  The legislation also gives                 
  the Commissioner of Administration  the authority to clarify                 
  and implement  the criteria  by regulation.   He noted  that                 
  this is similar to the authority  of the Commissioner of the                 
  Department  of  Revenue in  relation  to the  permanent fund                 
  dividend.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Mr.  Gullufsen noted that  the Department  of Administration                 
  has proposed an amendment, Amendment 1  (copy on file).  The                 
                                                                               
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  amendment  would set the differential  rate by statute.  The                 
  rate is currently   subject to negotiation.  The  rate would                 
  be set based  on a recent study  of COLD by the  Division of                 
  Personnel.    The  Director  of  Personnel  would  have  the                 
  authority   to  adjust   the  rate   according  to   studies                 
  demonstrating the cost of living  in Alaskan communities and                 
  Bellingham,  Washington.   Adjustments  would be  subject to                 
  annual legislative review.                                                   
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Hanley stressed  that the intent  is to clarify  in                 
  statute  that  the  criteria  for   residency  will  not  be                 
  negotiable.                                                                  
                                                                               
  MARK  BOYER,  COMMISSIONER,  DEPARTMENT   OF  ADMINISTRATION                 
  referred to a two page  chronological listing of COLD events                 
  (copy on file).   He noted that COLD was implemented in 1980                 
  and became active in  1982.  He observed that  PERA directed                 
  that the State have a cost of living  differential.  It does                 
  not specify the amount or criteria  of the differential.  He                 
  emphasized  that  the dispute  over  COLD payments  began in                 
  1989.  Historically the amount of  the COLD and the criteria                 
  for qualification have been settled through negotiation.  He                 
  maintained that COLD is part of the negotiation package.  He                 
  observed  that  it  was  initiated  to  entice  out-of-state                 
  employees to come  to Alaska  for residency.   The  original                 
  amount was 22.5  percent which was  the same as the  federal                 
  cost of living  allowance at the  time.  He maintained  that                 
  the real  cost of  living differential  between Seattle  and                 
  Southeastern  communities  are  negligible  and  should   be                 
  reviewed.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Commissioner Boyer  observed  that  the  Administration  has                 
  asked  that  COLD  criteria  be   placed  in  statute.    He                 
  emphasized that contracts  that do not contain  the criteria                 
  could be reopened if the legislation is enacted to deal with                 
  COLD criteria.  If this fails the criteria will be in  place                 
  the next time the contracts are negotiated.                                  
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Hanley summarized that the two contracts  currently                 
  before  the  Legislature  for   ratification  would  not  be                 
  affected.    Commissioner   Boyer  noted  that   the  Marine                 
  Engineer's  Beneficial  Association  (MEBA)  will  be  under                 
  negotiation in the fall.                                                     
                                                                               
  In   response   to   comments  by   Representative   Martin,                 
  Commissioner  Boyer  emphasized  that  the  problem  was not                 
  created by  the current  Administration.   He stressed  that                 
  there are a number of programs that require residency.                       
                                                                               
  Mr.  Gullufsen stated  that the  court has not  recognized a                 
  definite  set  of  criteria  under the  COLD  statute.    He                 
  observed  that  COLD  statutes,  AS  23.42.10,  states  "for                 
                                                                               
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  employees residing in  the state of  Alaska.  He noted  that                 
  there are  statutes  for establishing  residency for  voting                 
  purposes.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Mr. Gullufsen noted that an  arbitrator determined that time                 
  spent working on a  vessel in Alaskan waters can  be counted                 
  toward residency.  He stressed that the legislation proposes                 
  language that  would clarify that  the criteria will  be the                 
  same as the State  has always thought was the  criteria.  He                 
  stated that  if the  legislation is  enacted the State  will                 
  argue that the criteria applies now to everybody except MEBA                 
  which has other agreed  to criteria.  He clarified  that the                 
  MEBA   agreement   would  apply   permanent   fund  dividend                 
  regulations.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Commissioner Boyer noted  that the  problem began when  COLD                 
  was initiated.   Administrations since 1989  have recognized                 
  the  need to set  criteria through regulation.   He reviewed                 
  events  outlined on Attachment 1.   He summarized that there                 
  was not adequate criteria.                                                   
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Hanley  noted that the current Administration could                 
  have adopted regulations.   He  added that discussions  were                 
  held  on  this  issue  during  the  3/20/96,  House  Finance                 
  Committee   meeting.       Commissioner   Boyer    recounted                 
  negotiations during the previous year.                                       
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Hanley asked for copies  of arbitrator's decisions.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Discussion  occurred  regarding  the  responsibility of  the                 
  Administration and Legislature in regards  to the failure to                 
  implement criteria.                                                          
                                                                               
  Representative Mulder asked if the  legislation would result                 
  in a uniform,  consistent COLD  format.  Commissioner  Boyer                 
  clarified that the  legislation only  applies to the  marine                 
  units.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Commissioner Boyer  reiterated that  Amendment 1  would take                 
  COLD   criteria   outside   of   the   bargaining   process.                 
  Representative Mulder expressed support for Amendment 1.                     
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Hanley  asked if  Amendment 1  would be  consistent                 
  with other legislation.   Commissioner Boyer stated  that it                 
  would be consistent with other legislation.                                  
                                                                               
  Co-Chair  Hanley  summarized   that  the  legislation  would                 
  provide  that new  contracts would not  be negotiated.   The                 
  criteria and rates set  by the legislation would be  enacted                 
  and become statute.  Commissioner Boyer added that the rates                 
  would  be  reviewed  every  five  years  after  a  study  is                 
                                                                               
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  completed.                                                                   
                                                                               
  In response to  a question by Co-Chair  Hanley, Commissioner                 
  Boyer explained  that IBU members tie ships  off.  Employees                 
  at ferry terminals are  GGU and SSU members.  The person who                 
  ties up the ships  receives a COLD of 18 to 22  percent.  On                 
  shore personnel receive a fraction of this amount.                           
                                                                               
  Mr. Gullufsen  observed that  the State was  told that  COLD                 
  criteria  needed to  be bargained  in order  to  be applied.                 
  Under PERA disputes must go to an arbitrator.  The State has                 
  challenged the arbitrator's ruling in  court.  He emphasized                 
  that  accept where  the State has  set down  to permissively                 
  negotiate criteria the State  has the authority as a  public                 
  employer to propagate criteria without negotiation.                          
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Hanley asked if  there is a penalty section  in the                 
  legislation.    Mr. Gullufsen  explained  that there  are no                 
  specific penalty provisions  in the statute.   He emphasized                 
  that employees can be dismissed  and required to return COLD                 
  payments that they should not have received.  He stated that                 
  criminal prosecution  is possible if false physical evidence                 
  is given.  Co-Chair Hanley stated  that there should be some                 
  penalty specifically associated  with false resident claims.                 
  Mr.  Gullufsen  stated  that  there  is a  criminal  penalty                 
  provision stated on the form.                                                
                                                                               
  (Tape Change, HFC 96-135, Side 2)                                            
                                                                               
  Representative  Martin  asked  if  the  same  penalties  for                 
  falsifying permanent fund dividend applications could apply.                 
  Mr. Gullufsen did not  think the same penalties could  apply                 
  unless they  were included  in the  legislation.   He stated                 
  that it would not complicate or harm things to have specific                 
  criminal provision with regards to false claims of residency                 
  for COLD purposes.                                                           
                                                                               
  In  response  to a  question  by Representative  Martin, Mr.                 
  Gullufsen stated that it would be difficult to impose on the                 
  union the  responsibility to  report the  true residence  of                 
  their members.                                                               
                                                                               
  Commissioner Boyer pointed out that employees sign a form to                 
  certify their Alaskan residency.  He noted that the new form                 
  will embrace the criteria.  All members of MEBA will have to                 
  recertify under the new criteria.  The Alaska Marine Highway                 
  system will submit the forms  to the Permanent Fund Dividend                 
  Division.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Representative Mulder  MOVED to  adopt Amendment  1.   There                 
  being NO OBJECTION,  it was so ordered.   Commissioner Boyer                 
  noted that the  rates included  in Amendment  1 reflect  the                 
                                                                               
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  1994, Runzheimer study.   The study recommended a 14 percent                 
  differential for Ketchikan and a  7 percent differential for                 
  Kodiak.  These were adjusted in Amendment 1.                                 
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Hanley summarized  that the rates if  enacted would                 
  be  adopted  for any  new  contracts  until a  new  study is                 
  completed.  The  Director of  Personnel would implement  new                 
  rates by  regulations after the  next study  is completed.                   
  The regulations would be subject to legislative review.                      
                                                                               
  Commissioner Boyer clarified  that the bench mark  should be                 
  Bellingham since  operations were moved there  from Seattle.                 
  He  emphasized  that rates  will  be subject  to legislative                 
  input.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Representative Brown observed that the amendment would state                 
  that there is no difference in  the cost of living in Juneau                 
  or Anchorage and Bellingham, Washington.  Commissioner Boyer                 
  noted that the  Runzheimer study contained an error range of                 
  -3.5 - +3.5.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Commissioner  Boyer  reiterated  that  the  Legislature  can                 
  change or modify rates placed by regulations.                                
                                                                               
  There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 1 was adopted.                           
                                                                               
  Co-Chair  Foster  MOVED to  report  CSHB  545  (FIN) out  of                 
  Committee  with  individual  recommendations  and  with  the                 
  accompanying fiscal notes.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was                 
  so ordered.                                                                  
                                                                               
  CSHB 545  (FIN) was  reported out  of Committee  with a  "do                 
  pass" recommendation and with three zero fiscal notes by the                 
  Department of Administration, the Department of Revenue, and                 
  the Department of Transportation and  Public Facilities, all                 
  dated 3/22/96.                                                               
  SENATE BILL NO. 177                                                          
                                                                               
       "An  Act   relating  to  permits  to   carry  concealed                 
       handguns."                                                              
                                                                               
  BRENT HUBER, STAFF, SENATOR GREEN testified  on behalf of SB                 
  177.  He provided the Committee with written testimony (copy                 
  on file).  He maintained that SB 177 will revise the current                 
  concealed handgun program to provide  a more streamlined and                 
  less costly process.                                                         
                                                                               
  Mr. Huber  provided members with a sectional  analysis of SB                 
  177 (copy on file).  He reviewed the sectional analysis.  He                 
  noted that the sponsor has  provided an amendment that would                 
  remove subsections 1(e)  and 11(a).   Subsection 1(a)  would                 
                                                                               
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  provide an affirmative  defense for AS 11.61.210  that would                 
  allow permit holders  to carry  concealed weapons on  school                 
  grounds  providing  that  they  did  not  exit  a  propelled                 
  vehicle.  He  stressed that  the sponsor has  tried to  find                 
  language that would allow permit  holders the opportunity to                 
  pick up or  drop off their children at school.   The sponsor                 
  was  not  able  to  find  language  that  was  agreeable  to                 
  opponents  and  recommends  the  deletion  of  the  existing                 
  language.                                                                    
                                                                               
  TESS  LANUM, VICE  PRESIDENT  ON LEGISLATION,  ALASKA  STATE                 
  PARENT/TEACHERS ASSOCIATION testified via the teleconference                 
  network.  (Ms.  Lanum's written remarks  are on file.)   She                 
  stated  that  Alaska   PTA  agrees   with  the  removal   of                 
  subsections 1(e) and  11(a).    She asked that the  original                 
  law regarding concealed weapons on school property remain in                 
  place.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Representative  Kelly noted  that subsection  11(a) of  work                 
  draft, 9-LS1139\S,  4/22/96, states that  concealed handguns                 
  may  not be  carried on  to school  grounds or a  school bus                 
  "other  than  while in  a  propelled vehicle,  other  than a                 
  school bus,  and the permittee  does not exit  the vehicle".                 
  Ms. Lanum spoke in opposition to the language in 11(a).                      
                                                                               
  WENDY REDMOND, VICE PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA spoke in                 
  support  of  deleting  subsections  1(e)  and  11(a).    She                 
  observed  that  University  of  Alaska  classrooms  are  not                 
  covered by the legislation since they are not included under                 
  the definition of  "schools."  She requested  that concealed                 
  handguns  be  excluded  from  University  of  Alaska  campus                 
  grounds  or facilities  except as  provided by the  Board of                 
  Regents  policy.    She  noted that  the  Board  of  Regents                 
  currently allow guns on campus.   There are secure places in                 
  each dorm for gun storage.  Guns are allowed in locked cars.                 
  The  University of  Alaska does  not  support the  policy of                 
  concealed  weapons  in  classrooms.    She  emphasized  that                 
  campuses  are  well  protected.     There  are  commissioned                 
  officers  on campuses.   She added that  security forces and                 
  lighting have been increased.                                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE  JOE  GREEN  stated  that  he is  opposed  to                 
  allowing  concealed  handguns  on  schools.    He  expressed                 
  support for the  elimination of subsections 1(e)  and 11(a).                 
  He stressed that if protection is needed that other measures                 
  should be taken.                                                             
                                                                               
  HELEN MERHRKENS,  STATE BOARD  OF EDUCATION  noted that  the                 
  Board unanimously opposes the concept  of allowing concealed                 
  handguns  on  school  grounds.   She  noted  that  the Board                 
  believes that all conditions directly  related to the safety                 
  and health of public school students and staff are of utmost                 
                                                                               
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  importance.    She added  that  the Board  opposes concealed                 
  weapons in state operated public libraries.                                  
                                                                               
  Representative Kelly  asked Ms. Merhrkens  for the rationale                 
  behind her objections.  Ms.  Merhrkens stated that testimony                 
  from  parents  indicated  concern that  there  with  guns on                 
  school property.  She  stated that parents do not  want guns                 
  on  school grounds  unless  they are  part  of an  organized                 
  event.   She  stated that  someone  who brings  a  concealed                 
  handgun in a vehicle may illegally  get out of the car  with                 
  their gun.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Representative  Kelly expressed  support for the  ability of                 
  parents to carry concealed  weapons in their cars on  school                 
  grounds.  He maintained that  it would be a benefit  to have                 
  parents  with  guns on  school  grounds  in the  case  of an                 
  incident.  Ms. Merhrkens stated that their preference is for                 
  trained law enforcement officers to  respond to incidents on                 
  school grounds.                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Martin noted the use of guns  in rural areas.                 
  Ms. Merhrkens noted that  the use of rifle ranges  would not                 
  be prohibited under current law.                                             
                                                                               
  (Tape Change, HFC 96-136, Side 1)                                            
                                                                               
  Representative  Kelly  summarized  that  a  handgun  can  be                 
  carried in the trunk if it is unloaded.                                      
                                                                               
  DUANE BUELL, JUNEAU testified in SB 177.  He stated  that he                 
  supports  any   provision  that   relaxes  restrictions   on                 
  concealed handguns.  He noted that permit holders from other                 
  states  have to  meet qualifications  in their  states.   He                 
  asserted  that  "not one  of  the horror  stories  that (the                 
  Department of) Public Safety advanced as being a consequence                 
  of passing a concealed carry bill has come true in the  last                 
  16 months."   He pointed out  that the process assures  that                 
  permit  holders  are law  abiding  responsible persons.   He                 
  stressed that he wants the ability  to defend himself if the                 
  need arises.  He spoke against restrictions.                                 
                                                                               
  Representative Kohring echoed the remarks of Mr. Buell.                      
                                                                               
  Representative Brown stated that a permittee can carry their                 
  weapon in a holster, unconcealed, in  most of the areas that                 
  concealed weapons can not be carried.  Mr. Buell argued that                 
  those  that  carry weapons  in  the  open are  a  target for                 
  criminals.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Mr.  Huber  noted  that  AS  11.61.220  A(4)(a)  allows  all                 
  unloaded firearms to be carried  in a trunk or encased in  a                 
  closed  container  in a  motor vehicle.   He  clarified that                 
                                                                               
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  concealed handguns would be included under this provision.                   
                                                                               
  In response to a question by Representative Brown, Mr. Huber                 
  discussed section 3.   He noted  that current law  prohibits                 
  anyone from carrying concealed handguns  anyplace that has a                 
  beverage dispensary license.  This includes restaurants.  He                 
  noted that permit holders want to be able to go out to lunch                 
  with their  weapons.   He observed  that there  is no  clear                 
  differentiation between  restaurants  and bars.   He  stated                 
  that it is already against the law and in statute to possess                 
  a firearm while  intoxicated.  He maintained  that concealed                 
  handgun permit holders  should be able to  go in and out  of                 
  normal businesses.   He stressed  that under an  affirmative                 
  defense the defendant would have to prove that they have not                 
  consumed  alcohol in  the  8 hours  previous  to carrying  a                 
  concealed weapon.   He noted that  a blood alcohol level  of                 
  below  .04  percent  is  the  same  as  commercial  driver's                 
  license.  The first detectable level is .02 percent.                         
                                                                               
  Representative Brown noted  that a  loaded firearm could  be                 
  concealed in a place where liquor is sold.  Mr. Huber stated                 
  that the exception is for a loaded firearm in the possession                 
  of a permit  holder who  has not  consumed or  has no  blood                 
  alcohol level greater than .04 percent.                                      
                                                                               
  Mr. Huber explained that an  affirmative defense states that                 
  the  laws  of  the section  pertain,  however,  an allowable                 
  exception is  given if proof is  made that the terms  of the                 
  exception are met.  He noted that the  Department of Law did                 
  not support a direct offense.  The burden of proof  would be                 
  on the permit holder.                                                        
                                                                               
  Representative Brown asked if this provision would encourage                 
  persons to violate the law.  Mr. Huber noted that one of the                 
  requirements for obtaining  a permit  is that the  permittee                 
  have a clear explanation and study  of the laws that pertain                 
  to the program.                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Brown referred to subsections 11 (4) and (5).                 
  She asked why the existing language  was deleted.  Mr. Huber                 
  noted  that  testimony stressed  that  the firearm  properly                 
  possessed  by the  permit holder  is safer  in their  direct                 
  control than  left in  a car outside  of their control.   He                 
  maintained that permit holders are the most law  abiding and                 
  responsible citizens.                                                        
                                                                               
  In response to a question by Representative Brown, Mr. Huber                 
  noted   that  subsection  11(8)  received  the  most  public                 
  testimony.    Deletion  of  subsection   11(8)  would  allow                 
  concealed weapons to be carried in financial institutions or                 
  banks.   He  maintained that  permit holders  want to  carry                 
  concealed weapons as protection to and from banks.                           
                                                                               
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  Representative Martin MOVED  to adopt  Amendment 1 (copy  on                 
  file).  Amendment 1 would provide that concealed handguns be                 
  excluded from  the University  of Alaska  campus grounds  or                 
  facilities  except  as  provided  by  the Board  of  Regents                 
  policy.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                        
                                                                               
  Representative Mulder  MOVED to adopt  committee substitute,                 
  Work   Draft,  9-LS1139\S,  dated   4\22\96  as  amended  by                 
  Amendment 1 (copy on file).                                                  
                                                                               
  Mr.  Huber discussed  changes in  the committee  substitute.                 
  Section 3 was changed to include the blood alcohol level.  A                 
  blanket prohibition on health care  providing facilities was                 
  deleted.  He noted that  individual facilities can set their                 
  own  policy  regarding concealed  handguns.   He  added that                 
  reciprocity provisions were changed.                                         
                                                                               
  There  being NO  OBJECTION,  Work  Draft, 9-LS1139\S,  dated                 
  4\22\96 as amended by Amendment 1 was adopted.                               
                                                                               
  Representative  Mulder   MOVED  to  adopt  Amendment  2,  9-                 
  LS1139\S.1 (copy  on file).  Amendment 2 would delete "other                 
  than while in a propelled vehicle,  other than a school bus,                 
  and   the   permittee   does   not   exit   the    vehicle."                 
  Representative Kelly  expressed opposition  to Amendment  2,                 
  but  acknowledged  that  there  is  strong support  for  the                 
  amendment among opponents of concealed handguns.                             
                                                                               
  Mr. Huber stated that the legislation would remain silent in                 
  regards  to  any  provisions   regarding  schools  with  the                 
  adoption  of  Amendment  2.    The current  law  disallowing                 
  concealed   handguns  on   school  property   would  remain.                 
  Representative  Kelly noted  that handguns could  be carried                 
  unloaded in a trunk or container.                                            
                                                                               
  In  response  to a  question  by Representative  Mulder, Mr.                 
  Huber  noted  that  if another  state  is  honoring Alaska's                 
  permit, Alaska would honor their permit.  He emphasized that                 
  other states also  provide for  a criminal background  check                 
  and finger  printing information.   He  noted that  training                 
  provisions  differ  from  state  to state.    Representative                 
  Mulder expressed concern that other  states provide the same                 
  protection.                                                                  
                                                                               
  DEL SMITH, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC  SAFETY                 
  stated that he understood that other states would have to be                 
  as stringent as Alaska for reciprocity to exist.                             
                                                                               
  Co-Chair Foster MOVED  to report HCS  CSSB 177 (FIN) out  of                 
  Committee  with  individual  recommendations  and  with  the                 
  accompanying fiscal notes.                                                   
                                                                               
                               10                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative Brown  OBJECTED for  purposes of  discussion.                 
  She maintained that handguns are  a threat to our  children.                 
  She asserted  that the proliferation  throughout society  is                 
  troubling and a  threat.   She thought it  was a mistake  to                 
  expand   areas    concealed   weapons   can    be   carried.                 
  Representative Brown WITHDREW her Objection.                                 
                                                                               
  There  being NO OBJECTION,  HCS CSSB 177  (FIN) was reported                 
  out of Committee.                                                            
                                                                               
  Representative Kohring maintained that expansion of handguns                 
  will provide greater safety to law abiding citizens.                         
                                                                               
  HCS CSSB  177 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with a "do                 
  pass" recommendation and  with a fiscal  impact note by  the                 
  Department of Public  Safety, dated  4\11\96; a zero  fiscal                 
  note  by the Department of Corrections, dated 3/26/96; and a                 
  zero fiscal note by the Department of Law, dated 3/6/96.                     
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  The meeting adjourned at 4:00 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
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