----------------------- Page 1----------------------- 1973-74 HOUSE 'JUDICIARY COMMITTEE ,. i_ TABLE OF CONTENTS ,,, ; }, . , 1973 INDEX (1ST REGU~AR SESSION) 1973 M"INUTES (REGULAR SESSION):,' ,J' '.. ,T , 1/11/1973 - 4/5119]3 '" 197~ MINU~ES(SPECIAL SESSION):'~' ., 10/21/1973 - 10/30/1973 .;. 1974 INDEX ~~ r ..... ~.;. -. 1974MI~uiES: 1/2111974 - 4/19/1974 ' .. '-:.,,,. ) 1973-74 HJ MINLOG ----------------------- Page 2----------------------- ################## # # # # $ HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE ~ ~ MINUTES . 1973 ~ # # # # ################## CHAIRMAN: REPRESENTATIVE CLEM TILLION MEMBERS-: REPRESENTATIVE GENIE-, CHANCE, REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPH ORSINI, REPRESENTA- TION HUGH MALONE, REPRESENTATIv'E MILDRED BANFIELD, REPRESENTATIVE HELEN BEIRNE, AND REPRESENTATIVE RICHARD MCVEIGH. LEGAL COUNSEL: Mr. Hayden Kaden and Mr. Arthur Peterson SECRETARIES: Merle A. Mason (Mrs.} Sharon A. Marlowe Eighth Alaska State Legislature First Session - January 8, 1973- April 7, 1973 \ ----------------------- Page 3----------------------- · ) ----------------------- Page 4----------------------- HOUSE JUDICLl\RY COMMITTEE »"" INDEX MINUTES 1973 (\~1 K~.:JliL\t\T ~S ) House Bills: HB 1 - Guides, relating to - 20, 21, HB 9 - Point system/motor vehicle violations - 78, 80-B4, 93, 94 HB 12 - Damage/Underground utilities - 42, 45 HB 15 - Creating office of ombudsman - 10, 103 HB 18 Legislation, ballot measures authorizing· issuance of GO bonds - 37, 38, 44, 45 HB 23 - Pari-mutuel betting - 2, 30, 31, 106 HB 32 - Truth in labeling/healing arts - 20, HB 33 - Licensing of dispensing opticians - 96-103 HB 70 - Adoption of children - loB, 109 HB 71 - .Li.ppropriation/Limited Entry - 47 HB 73 - Open to entry lands/restrict to state residents - 22 HB 84 - Shield law/reporters - 2-4, 72-74 HB 85 - Motor vehicles - 9 HB 86 - Practice of Professional Nursing - 78 HB 88 - E~tending coverage/Good Samaritan Act - 2, 9 (Withdrawn) HB 89 - Publishing names"' of juveniles for certain offenses - 62, 63 HB 92 - Contractual restrictions/interest rate - 2, 33 34, 39, 40, A 47, 4v 52 HB 93 - Interest computation/extension of credit - 40, 47, 48, 52, 58, 63, 115, 116 HB 95 - Confidentiality/bank records - 40, 41, 49, 50, 75, 80, 87 HB 98 - Delinquency charges/extension of credit - 41, 50 HB 102 - Grounds for annulment - 9, 12 HB 103 Consumer Protection Office/Ketchikan - 12 HB 104 - Penalties for sale of drugs - 63 HB 105 - Mandatory sentencing/felonies - 9, 11, 12, 60, 61, 69, 103 i ----------------------- Page 5----------------------- House Bills - Page 2 HB 113 - Maternity Leave - 119 HB 119 - Burial of a body - 9 HB 124 - Monte Carlo Nights - 106 HB 126 - Limited entry/fisheries - 75-78, 80 HB 128 - Licensing of group homes - 110, III HB 148 - Nomination and qualification of candidates - 27, 28, 45, 46 HB 150 - Selection of candidates/special elections/statewide - 27, 29 HB 154 - Revocation/motor vehicle licenses - 58, 59 HB 156 Appointment of Special Committees in Legislature - 23 HB 157 - state Aid to Local Governments - 95, 99 HB 160 - Minors on licensed premises - 22, 23 HB 161 - Eyeglass and Sunglass lenses - 109 HB 175 - Establishing narcotics and dangerous drugs enforcement unit in division of state troopers - 24-26, 28, 31-33, 35 HB 176 - Appropriation for above bill - 24-26, 28, 31-33, 35 HB 182 - Possession and transportation of live snakes - 55 HB 187 - No-Fault Insurance - 65-71, 78, 84-86, 88 HB 205 - Safety glazing labels and materials - 93 HB 209 - Peremptory disqualification of judges and masters - 41, 42, 46 HB 210 - Military Code/relating to/Alaska - 90, 91 FIB 211 Possession of drugs - 62 HB 212 - Relating to private and contract carriers - 63 HB 215 - Relating to flammable fabrics - 63· HB 232 Relating to districts of the superior court- 115, 117 HB 242 - Waste of wild food animals - 106 HB 247 - Notice of adoption, amendment or repeal of a regulation - 44 HB 248 - Establishing real estate surety fund - 87~ 118, 119 1i ----------------------- Page 6----------------------- House Bills - Page 3 HB 257 Legislative Campaign Expenditures - 78, 79, 89-92, 94 HB 262 - Relating to malicious mischief - 59 HB 268 - Tax bonds for nonresident taxpayers - 63, 64 HB 285 - Definition of medical and legal death - Ill, 119 HB 290 - Threats ana false reports ot bombing - 91, 93, 96 HB 319 - Penalties/DW"r - III HB 335 - Ownership of real property by nonresident aliens - 109, 110 HB 365 - Magistrate pay raise - 105 HB 375 - Compensation of Judicial Officers - 112 HB 381 - Power of eminent domain - 107, 114, 117 HB 382 - Revisorts bill - 105, 107, 108 HB 383 - Corporations organized under Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act - 105 ) HB 391 Disorderly Conduct, relating to - 118 HB 398 - Uniform Alcoholism and Intoxication Treatment Act, relating to - 117 HB 412 - Postponement of civil proceedings/member of the legis- lature - 120 iii ----------------------- Page 7----------------------- House Joint Resolutions: HJR 9 - Selection of Attorney General - 2, 3, 8 HJR 10 - Appeal requested/Cook Inlet submerged lands - 19 HJR 20 - Amendment to amendment and revision section of Alaska Constitution - 36 HJR 22 - Request U.S. Congress to adopt certain legislation relating to interest rates - 120 HJR 36 - Unrestricted ownership of Alaskan reindeer - 52, 53 HJR 51 - Emergency medical evacuation and mail service for Little Diomede - 103 HJR 55 - Voluntary prayer in school - 119 House Concurrent Resolutions: HCR 26 - Delineation of territorial sea - 19 HCR 27 - Construction of road between Hydaburg and Holis - 63 HCR 54 - Annulling certain administrative regulations adopted by the Department of Environmental Conservation - 54-57 HCR 75 - Complete utilization of herring - 106 HeR 79 - Venereal Disease Awareness Month - 114 House Resolutions: HR 2 - Reapportionment, of, ,'Alaska StateHouse of Representatives - 104 iv ----------------------- Page 8----------------------- Senate Bills: SB 2 - Filing of consolidated corporation income tax returns - 57 SB 13 - Executive Budget Act - 79 SB 24 Citations for motor vehicle and traffic offenses - 88 SB 25 - Issuance of citation for certain misdemeanors - 88 SB 37 - Interest rates charged in state -2, 5-7, 12-18 SE 47 - Senior citizens' property tax exemption - 106, 112 SE 73 - Burial of a body - 69 SE 107 - Appropriation/Establishment of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Enforcement Unit - 106 SE 108 - Establishing narcotics and dangerous drugs enforcement unit in division of state troopers - 102 SB 134 - Mechanics' and materialmen's liens - 116 SB 140 - Uniform Probate Code, relating to - 87, 94 , 95, 102 1 SE 1 -1-6 - Unauthorized entry, use or occupancy of property - 94 SE 191 - Mutual savings banks investing in first mortgages, relating to - 102 Senate Joint Resolutions: SJR 12 - Sale of timber on Afognak Island - 118 SJR 15 - National Marine Fisheries surveillance and enforcement program - 36, 37 Subjects: Postponement of Civil Proceedings/member of legislature - 108 " Proposed Information System/Criminal Justice - 113, 114 Transfer of real property/name of party - 52 Utility cutoffs/notification - 51 v ----------------------- Page 9----------------------- E.&ULAR ESSioN I ( Iq73~ Lt 5 3 ----------------------- Page 10----------------------- 1/11 HOUSE JUDICIARY C01~ITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Thursday, January 11, 1973 The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tillion in Com- mittee Room 2, State Capitol Building, at 3:00 p.m. Present were Fischer, Beirne, Chance, Ma.lone, Orsini, a.nd Banfield. This was a meeting of introduction for freshmen legislators who are assigned to this committee. Chairman Tillion explained how the committee operates. Chairman Tillion informed committee members that the regular meeting room for House Judiciary Committee would be in the Assembly Apartment Building, Room 104. It is not completed on this date, but we will move into it as soon as it is finished. Banfield moved and asked unanimous consent that the meeting be adjourned. There was no Objection. Meeting a.djourned at 3:10 p. m. C:'-, -1- ----------------------- Page 11----------------------- 1/18 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Thursday, January 18, 1973 The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tillion at 3:40 p.m. in Room 100 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Banfield, McVeigh, Tillion, Orsini, and Hayden Kaden. The main purpose of this meeting vJBS to assign bills and schedule public hearings. There was also discussion of committee procedures related to carrying a bill on the floor and ho\,'J' to bring up a bill that was in committee but had not been scheduled for consideration. Monday, January 22: Selection/ HJR - 9 - Selection of attorney general and district HJR 9 Att. Gen. attorneys. Orsini and McVeigh have been assigned to research this resolution. The attorney general will be notified by the secretary_ Privilege HB-84 - Privilege of reporters. Mr. William Tobin will HB 84 of reporters be notified and invited to testify on this bill. Tuesday, January 23: I (~,~ Public hearing is scheduled for SB-37 - Interest rates SB 37 Interest charged in the state. Rep. Fink and Sen. Rettig have Rates/State been requested to testify on this measure. The bank lobbyist is also to be notified. Other Assignments: Good Samar- HB-SS - Good Samaritan Act. Banfield - for consideration HB 88 itan Act next week. Contra Res. HB-92 - Relating to contractual restrictions/intere$t. HB 92 Interest Genie Chance - no date. Parj_-Mutuel HB-23 - Pari-mutuel betting. McVeigh - no date. HB 23 bett.ing Banfield moved to adjourn; McVeigh seconded. There was no objection. Meeting adjourned at 4:10 p.m. -2- ----------------------- Page 12----------------------- 1/22 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Monday, January 22~ 1973 The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tillion at 3:35 p.m. in Room 100 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were McVeigh, Chance, Orsini, Tillion, Malone, and Kaden. Select'ion The first item for discussion was'HJR-9 Selection of Attorney HJR 9 Att. Gen. General and district attorneys. Attorney General Havelock testified against this legislation. He felt it would greatly disrupt his office if it were passed. He expressed the opinion that the Legislature should use their powers of confirmation of the Governorts choice more fully, if they were dissatisfied with the performance of that office. Mr. Havelock gave examples of how attorney generals were selected in other states. Six states have appointed AG's. Maine selected their AG through the Legislature. Tennessee selects their AG through the Supreme Court. Mr. Havelock felt that the proposal of HJR-9 was similar to the one for Tennessee. The attorney general explained that his main duties were being a barrister and a solicitor for the Governor and for administrators in state government. Rep. Orsini asked l··~'·i'~. what these two terms meant. Mr. Havelock explained that ~. ! a barrister pleads cases in court and a solicitor only gives advice. Mr. Havelock said that he does both of these things in his position. He does not ordinarily perform these ser- vices for individuals in the state. Further hearings will be held on this measure, at which time the sponsors of this bill will be heard. McVeigh asked Mr. Havelock if it wouldntt be wiser to con- centrate on an ombudsman rather than electing the AG. The AG felt there was a great need to have an independent critic of the executive branch and that an independent ombudsman would serve the role better than an elected AG. Privilege HB 84 - Privilege of Reporters - was the next item for dis- HB 84 of reporters cussion. The chairman reported that Mr. Tobin would be unable to be at the hearing due to previous commitments in Anchorage. He did say that there could be a misuse of these privileges and felt it should be limited to state and federal employees in sensitive positions. Rep. M. Miller attended the meeting but would like more time to prepare material for a presentation. Rep. Meekins asked the chairman if he might point out how the bill was written in its present form. He also would like to do more 'research on the matter. Rep. Meekins noted that we are going through stages in our Nation where the press is going to be more and more assaulted. The Supreme Court has stated that the constitution does not -3- ----------------------- Page 13----------------------- 1/22 Privilege specifically guara~tee reporters the right to keep secret )f reporters the sources or thelr information. They also suggested that HB 84 it would be in the state's right to legislatively regulate this. California just passed such a bill. Eighteen other states give qualified protection. The Peter Bridge case was handled in a state that had qualified protection law. It is apparent that we need something more. He gave the example of two people who were suspected to have given out information and they were fired without cause. If we don't do something about this, the sources of information will dry up. Rep_ Meekins feels this will be one way to safeguard freedom of the press. There are conflicting rights that need to be protected. There is the right of the accused to" have all information available brought out at the trial to protect himself, and the immunity of the information source, such as doctors testifying against patients, and lawyers against their clients, for example. This doesn't happen, so why not allow the same immunity for reporters and their sources of information. Rep. Meekin felt that possibly the bill should be rewritten, but that the intent Should remain the same. Rep. Banfield arrived and announced the death of former President Lyndon B. Johnson. McVeigh moved that the meeting be adjourned. There was no objection. Meeting adjourned at 4:17 p.m. -4- ----------------------- Page 14----------------------- 1/23 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Tuesday, January 23, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:35 p.m. in Room 100 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Orsini, Malone, McVeigh, Tillion, Banfield, and Kaden. Interest SB-37 - Interest rates charged in the state - was the first SB 37 Rates/State item of consideration. The chairman noted that there were quite a few people in the audience and wanted to know how many were to testify against the bill. Rep_ Tom Fink, Speaker of the House, was the first witness. He was opposed to the bill as written. Rep. Fink said the reason this bill was necessary, according to the sponsors and those in favor of the bill, was to raise interest rates to make more money available. It isn't that the bankers or those people charging interest need higher rates for profits to the extent that there is a problem that affects commerce, but that it was felt they needed to keep commerce going. Mr. Fink did not think that we should raise the rates if we were going to keep the provision that requires those who wish to get started in the banking business to have to show "convenience and necessity". He does not think it would be a responsible government that would allow a franchise for a bank and then take away interest rate restrictions so they could charge whatever they wanted for their services. Interest rates are high or low according to the amount of money available. Rep. Fink feels that interest rates should be tied to something like HUD plus 1%. This would allow" the rates to change whenever conditions warranted it. It would also provide a control of sorts. He prepared an amend- ment that would cover these thoughts. Mr. Fink said that when interest rates increase)the consumer is the one who pays. He gave an exam~le of one rental complex that would have to increase the rent $75 per month per unit to meet the increased interest costs. He also noted that it left only two elements in our society: the rich and the poor. We no longer would have a middle class in our society. The Speaker said that the bill we were considering would regulate only one- to four-family units. The legal rate of interest would be 9% on the one- to four-family units and no limit on other forms of interest. (Chance arrived 3:50 p.m.) McVeigh noted that individual states mayor may not have a low covering interest rate creates a problem~ He asked Mr. Fink if he would like to see a federal control affecting all states. Mr. Fink felt this would be one way of solving the problem. If the federal government would establish a policy then they ought to take the profit out of it. McVeigh agreed with this. -5- ----------------------- Page 15----------------------- 1/23 Mr. Fink felt that the lower rate this state can establish Interest without hurting commerce is the one we should adopt. He SB 37 Rates/State noted that if the State of Alaska put a substantial amount (' of money, say, like $100,000,000 into loan funds, the rest '\~ of the lending community would have a difficult time to successfully charge more than 8 per cent. Mr. Randolph mentioned that according to' the Speaker's testimony, that there was a large bank that was making 20 per cent. He wanted to know if most of that money was not made through investments rather than loans. Mr. Fink thought that was probably true, but he had no break down of figures on this aspect. Mark Jensen" representing the Associated General Contractors, was the next witness. He testified in favor of the bill. He stated that the association endorses this bill and urges its' speedy passage. He said his chief concern was commercial and corporate loans and he did not want to involve himself on housing loans. He noted that when meeting with the Monetary Committee three years ago that most of the 28 people expert in their field said that if Alaska wanted to have a supply of money for expansion they would have to take the ceiling off interest rates. Mr. Jensen said that Rhode Island has had a ceiling of 21 per cent for many years. Also Washington state has a 12 per cent ceiling. There is one thing that has not been mentioned and that is the element of risk. This is where the supply of money is needed. You have two borrowers and both have legitimate contracts. One has a good credit record and the other is just starting out. You have to make the choice between the two. You should be able to charge more interest for the higher risk loan. Mr. Jensen said that the money market in the United States is partially reflected by the federal reserve. This is particularly shown in what they take back from the national banks. The amount they now take is 12 per cent and this amounts to billions of dollars that they can regulate. My point in mentioning this is that the money market is chang- ingevery day. That is why he feels it is wrong to place a ceiling on interest rates. Mr. Jensen provided the committee with an article from Federal Banking Law Reports and one from Kiplinger Newsletter. Both will be placed in the file. Rep. Chance wanted to get statistics on the amount of new money made available in the state when the interest rates were raised three years ago. Rettig felt that this state would have been completely out of the market had we not raised the rates at that time. Annabelle Simmons, Juneau, commented from the audience. She said that this is a state of very small communities and that Behrends Bank does not make loans to small investors. This leaves only one bank that makes housing loans so rates here would automatically increase. -6- ----------------------- Page 16----------------------- 1/23 I Interest Hayden Kaden asked Mr. Fink what affect this bill would SB 37 Rates/State have on Section 45.45.020. He felt that this would negate any changes that might be brought about by this bill. This will be researched. It appears that if there is no limit on interest rates, you have violated Section 020. Mr. Jensen said that he thought there was a list out from last year that shows the states that have no ceiling on corporate and commercial loans. He thought there were around 38 states. Mr. Fink said he would like to see this list. (McVeigh left at 5:00 p.m.) Senator Rettig was the next witness to testify. He was in favor of this bill. Mr. Fink asked Mr. Rettig why he objected to using the HUD rate plus 1%. He said that if you did this that presently HUDis rated 7 plus and adding the other points you would have 12% and this is too much. Mr. Fink said that you only add l~ per cent to the HUn rate which would be about 8 per cent. This way, if HUD rate goes up, so will the con- ventional rate. Mr. Rettig felt this could be done. He did not like to see this arrangement, though. Mr. Fink said the reason he tied it to HUD was that they were involved in residential housing. new Chairman Tillion noted that there was no/material being brought out. He asked for a motion to adjourn. Chance so moved, no objection. Meeting adjourned at 5:20 p.m. -7- ----------------------- Page 17----------------------- 1/24 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Wednesday, January 24, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:43 p.m. in Room 100 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Malone, Tillion, McVeigh, Chance, Banfield, and Kaden. Selection HJR-9 - Selection of Attorney General and District Attorneys~ Att. Gen. was the first item for consideration. McVeigh noted that HJR 9 there was need for an amendment or a committee substitute to cover the term USecretary of StateU which is now "Lieute- nant Governor". The chairman asked if there was any object- tion to this proposal. Hearing none, a committee substitute will be prepared to cover this error. The sponsor, Rep. Wa~lick, testified in behalf of this resolution. He said that ·:.he was not an attorney and he did not know exactly how the AG's office operated. He said this bill was intro- duced by request--Iawyers and DA's feel there is a need for this. They feel their problems would be solved if the AG were elected. Rep. Warwick felt that the governor should appoint the AG initially from a list submitted by the Judicial Council, then the Legislature would confirm this appointment. After this, every so often they would be put on the ballot to see if they would be retained or not. Committee members felt that an elected AG would not serve the purpose for the Governor. And, in fact, would be in competition with the governor and would use this office as a stepping stone to the Governorship, or to aid the AG in his political efforts. They also felt that the AG's opinions may be made because it was politically expedient to do so instead of benefiting the people of the state. Also, a man could get in this position, and be reelected. It would be very hard to remove a man from this position. This would cause a problem when and if the governor would change. He might not be compatible with the new governor. Since the AG appoints the DA's, this would make this his own organiza- tion. This could be damaging to the state. Banfield noted that when you elect the AG, it is not because of competence, but on how good of a campaign he can put togethe , this is where you will have your problems. We have problems, you will have problems with any system. McVeigh brought out that with an elected AG, you have produced a climate where coin venders and shady business operations can flourish. This should be avoid~d. They could contribute to the campaign and get their man elected. Rep. Warwick said he did not know how to solve the problem of the lawyers and the DA's. He said they did have a problem in the field of prosecution. The main complaint seems to lie in the fact that the AG is the righthand of the Governor. Most of the committee members were opposed to this legisla- tion basically because it would disrupt the whole administratio of state government. Rep. Malone felt that the simpler ~Te coul keep the system, the more responsive it would be to the needs of the people. -8- ----------------------- Page 18----------------------- 1/24 Selection McVeigh feels that the appointed system is best because it HJR 9 Att,. Gen. immunizes the local DA from the pressures that do come on him. Rep. Orsini noted that Rep_ Hartig desired to testify l~ on this resolution. He is in favor of a separately elected AG. He thinks he should run on the ballot with the governor~ lieutenant governor and the attorney general. These three would then run the government. The chairman gathered from the consensus of the group that we should wait until Rep. Hartig can testify on this. We will wait until he requests that we bring this measure before the committee again. Good Samar- HB-88 - Extending Coverage of the Good Samaritan Act. Mrs. HB 88 itan Act Banfield reported that she had talked to Rep. Ose on this bill. He said that he wanted to make sure that volunteer firemen were covered under this act. Hayden checked the ,statutes and found that they were already covered. Chance felt that this would be expanding the coverage too far. This will be held until further notice. HB 102 Grounds for HB-102 - Grounds for Annulment. Hayden suggested that this Annulment same language be added in the divorce section. Aftersome discussion, it was decided to prepare a committee substitute. Banfield moves that Hayden draft a CS and include the divorce section. There was no objection; so ordered. When the draft is completed, it will be 'brought back before the committee. I ! Mandatory HB-l05 - Mandatory imprisonment/felony. Malone reported on HB 1051 \. Impri- this bill. He said he fou~d it difficult to find enough ) ( information on which to base a decision. He said that the I '-'" son- I ment sponsor could not meet with the committee today. Malone will check with Ose to see when he can meet with us. It will be scheduled at that time. Burial of HB-119 - Burial of a body. There was a brief discussion HB 119 a body on this bill. Banfield moved and asked unanimous consent to pass this bill out of committee with a "Do Passt! recom- mendation. There was no objection. McVeigh and Chance signed "No Recommendation". Motor veh. HB-85 - Motor vehicles/unregistered vehicles. The chairman HB 85 Unregistered explained that the way the law reads now the officer has to wait until the ,auto is actually moving on the highway before he can stop and ticket the individual. This allows him to ticket these cars in parking lots and other public places. Chance asked if tourists would have tickets placed on their cars. Tillion said, they would be innocent. Chance said she did not want to see the tourists harrassed. Banfield asked how we were going to define "nonresident tl • Tillion said this would be anybody that holds a job in the state unless they are military. McVeigh noted that this only gave the officer the right to ticket the car. McVeigh moves and asks unanimous consent to move this bill out, with trDo Pass". Chance objects in order to check the sections of law that are being amended. McVeigh amended his motion and moves that the com- mittee put the bill out of committee. This motion passed. McVeigh then moved to put the bill out "Do Pass" Chance and Banfield objected. Chance signed fiNo recommendation" -9- ----------------------- Page 19----------------------- 1/24 Ombudsman Tillion assigned HB-15 - Creating Office of the Ombudsman ~ HB 15 to Banfield and McVeigh. Chance moved to adjourn. No objection; so ordered. Meeting adjourned at 5:00 p.m. -10- ----------------------- Page 20----------------------- 1/25 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Thursday, January 25, 1973 Meeting was called to order by Chairman Tillion at 3:40 p.m. in Room 100 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Chance, Tillion, McVeigh, Banfield, Malone, and Kaden4 Mandatory HB-I05 - Mandatory imprisonment/felony - was the first item HB 105 Imprison- of consideration. Mr. Olof Hellen, Assistant Public Defender, ment/ testified in opposition to this bill. He told the committee felony that Mr. Herb SolI, from the Anchorage Office of the Public Defender, had assigned him to testify on legislation per- taining to the activities of his office. Mr. Hellen noted that _the bill is quite clear that after the first felony conviction there shall be no time suspended in any subsequent felony conviction. He felt this was too severe and took away the right of the judge to decide what was best for each individual. He felt that rehabilitation was more important than confinement in a pri~on. This allows the judge to take into account public safety and rehabilitation of the person involved in the felony. Mr. Hellen said that persons who had received aid from the Anchorage program, which included programs of training, a place to live, jobs, etc., have proved to be quite successful. These people do not end up back in the jail. He opposed this legislation and felt that the courts and the division of corrections would also oppose. After a brief discussion about sentencing procedures, Mr. Hellen gave the example of a judge who would impose some stipulation on the offender rather than a sentence. The offender would have to obey these rules or serve a certain sentence. This arrangement would not allow this any more. Tillion noted that this bill did not seem to allow for pro- bation. There are two factors that brought about this bill: (1) 60% of the crime in Alaska is committed by second offenders, and (2) some judges that let these people off with~little orlno")"' punishment. McVeigh showed that we always will have a problem trying to reach some kind of acceptable sentencing pattern. Some o"f the sentencing may not be what the public at large thinks it should be, he doesn't see any wisdom in the Legislature passing a bill like this. The pattern developed from a new system may be absolutely terrible compared to what we now have. He suggested that the problem may be solved by a bill now introduced in the Legislature to place the probation people under the direct control of the courts as opposed to the Executive Branch as it is now. On the subject of sen- tencing, he felt that there would be as many opinions as there were people in the room. Mr. Hellen felt that there was a great need for consistency in sentencing. He gave an example of two young men who had committed a similar crime, were tried in different areas of -11- ----------------------- Page 21----------------------- 1/25 the state, had different judges, received different sentences, and ended up in the same cell. There will be further testimony on this matter on Friday when we will listen to the sponsor of the bill. Grounds HB-I02 - Grounds for annulment. Hayden prepared a CS for this HB 102 for Annul- bill. Chance moved to adopt the CS and asked unanimous consent. ment McVeigh objected. There was some discussion with regard to the proper term to use "annulment fl or "voidable marriage". Hayden showed that from the statutes that this applied to both annulment and divorce. McVeigh wanted to make sure that community property rights would be honored and not violated by dissolving a marriage in this way. Tillion brought out that this did not change the law. Chance said that if the terminology would be a problem, it is already a problem. We are only adding this language to exi'sting law. Chance renewed her' motion to adopt the CS; Malone seconded her motion and moved to sign out the CSHB-I02 with a "Do Passu. There was no objection. It was signed out liDo PassH unanimously. Con. Pro. HB-I03- Consumer Protection Office/Ketchikan. Rep.' Gardiner HB 103 Office/Ktkn testified in favor of his bill. He said that it would cost $80,000 to set up a separate office, but one connected with, the DA's Office would cost about $27,000. There would be one para-legal investigator, working out of the DAIs office, and he could use the DA's secretary, 'and there would be some travel involved. Banfield suggested that Gardiner talk to the AG and see if this couldn't be included in their budget. She said if this went to the Floor that every community would want such an office. Banfield suggested that this could be included in the AG's budget and Gardiner would have reached his goal withou a Floor fight. Malone asked for some statistics on the Anchor- age office. Gardiner said that they figured that they had saved the people about $6,000 to date. The office hasn't been in operation very long, so there are not many statistics avail- able. Tillion felt that Banfield'S suggestion of talking with the AG was a good one. Gardiner said that he felt Finance would pay more attention to a house bill. Malone asked Rep. Gardiner to get some statistics from the Juneau office, too. Gardiner will talk with the AG and report back to the committee before we do any more on this bill. Interest SB-37 - Interest rates charged in the state. Tillion said SB 37 Rates/State the committee may want to amend this bill. McVeigh felt we should wait until Fink and Rettig have come to some conclusion. Banfield moved to adjourn at 4:35 p.m. -12- ----------------------- Page 22----------------------- 1/30 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Tuesday, January 30, 1973 The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tillion at 3:38 p.m. in Room 100 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Orsini, Beirne, Chance, and Kaden. Interest SB-37 - Interest rates charged in the state. This was a SB 37 Rates/State continuation of the hearing on this bill. The entire meeting centered around an amendment proposed by Rep. Tom Fink. This included a proposed amendment to this amendment by Rep. Dick Randolph; with a further proposed amendment by Senator Ron Rettig. Mr. Fink explained his proposed amendment. He said that the contract rate would remain at 8 per cent with two exceptions. One would be on one- to four-family units where it would be 3 1/2 percentage pOints above discount rates. This rate would go up or down according to the federal discount rate. The other would be for commercial real estate loans. It is 4 1/2 percentage points above discount rates. This makes the interest rate at 9 1/2 per cent on these loans. The last time this was discussed, ',there, wa~ to be a 'compromise worked .'out'.", The primary difference in the two opinions is that they wanted a general increase while Mr. Fink felt it should be limited to the two categories where it was needed. Randolph agreed with Tom, as he had been involved in the compromise discussions. He felt there was need for further increase. He didn't think this would help the problem of purchase of heavy equipment or things like this. (McVeigh arrived at 3:40 p.m.) Equipment dealers said they would invite more sales of their products if the interest rates were raised. At the present time, the volume of this type business in the state is dwarfed by that conducted from the lower 48. Rep. Randolph feels that we would be remiss if we didn't amend Tom's amendment to allow for a 4 1/2 per cent floor on everything except the one- to four-family dwellings. He added five words It or a non-real estate loan" in section (2) after the word "above" on line 2. (Malone and Banfield arrived at 3:45 p.m.) McVeigh noted that this would be about the same as the law we had i:w'o years ago. Randolph said this was true. He said some of the people he talked to suggested that we go back to that law. Tillion noted that the old law allowed only 4 percentage points and asked if that would be satisfactory. Randolph felt this would be all right. Senator Rettig stated that it would not cover the commercial real estate area. Randolph noted that the only area of con- flict between Mr. Fink and him;'vlas whether we cover non-real estate loans or not above the 8 per cent figure. Dick Hall, National Bank of Alaska, was the ne,xt wi tne~~. He b~gan his testimony by saying that this was not a banker's -13- ----------------------- Page 23----------------------- 1/30 Interest bill but was designed to aid the borrower. He said that the SB 37 Rates/ Alaska banks are nearing a loaned up position. If that hap- ( state pens there will be no money available to loan. This is the "-/ banks problem. This condition leaves them in a weakened position. Mr. Hall explained the federal reserve discount rate and how it moves either up or down. The banks would prefer returning to the old law rather than accepting Fink's amendment. Orsini asked if we went to the 9 1/2 per cent rate, would the banks have sufficient money available to supply the loans. Mr. Hall felt they would. He felt that at 9 1/2 per cent he would be able to attract outside money. Chance noted how we did the same thing two years ago, with the promise that we would benefit from that experience, but we have not been able to get this information. Mr. Hall said that the banks are making reports to the Department of Revenue but didn't thi~k they would have the right type of information requested. Rep. Chance felt this information was needed in order to make a knowledgeable decision now. Mr. Hall felt that you could tell about this by asking if there were more problems before or now and whether or not there are more complaints from customers. Chance asked if there had been a slow down in construction or an increase in the unemployment rate. Mr. Hall said that there had not been, but that there was an increase of activities from stateside. He said that of $123 million in loans in Anchorage, al~ but $50 million was borrowed stateside. , (~ Mr. Hall noted that the Director of Banking could show how Alaska banks rank in their categories and the return on investment capital. This comparison is with the federal reserve and considers the smaller banks, too. Mr. Fink asked Mr. Hall what he felt would be his increase in deposit growth during the next year. Mr. Hall said he thought this would be between 7 and 8 per cent, noting that they were anticipating the start on the pipeline. -He said that the increase would come from individual, partnership, and incorporation deposits. Mr. Hall stated that his bank would like to expand the amount of money they 1 have in mobile homes. They can t do this at 8 per cent, but if increased to 9 1/2 they could take more of these loans. Chance complimented this witness on his candor and method of presentation. Senator Rettig was the next witness. He commented on the Fink amendment and did not think we needed this because we do have a market for a particular category of single family dwellings at 8 per cent. This is through the Federal Housing Loan Corporation. He disagrees with Tom in the commercial real estate loan area. He wanted to put a dollar limit, say $25,000, to be added to Randolph's amendment. There was a great deal of discussion on this point. The banks would be eliminated from making small loans under $25,000 if this amendment were adopted. Mr. Hall felt it would be detrimental. -14- ----------------------- Page 24----------------------- 1/30 Page 3 Interest Senator Rettig's wording as added to Randolph's amendment (,,-,Rates/WOUld read: After the word "above ff insert and add Hor non- SB 37 , State real estate loans in' excess 'of '$25,OOO~'. McVeigh felt this was not acceptable. Rettig said that it had bad connotations and it did leave a )gray area. Tillion said that this in effect would stop people from getting small loans. Randolph did not agree with this amendment. Mr. Hall reiterated that if this amendment were adopted, you would be eliminating borrowers. This is not what you want to do. Tillion felt that a lot of this could be handled in another bill on retail installments. The conversation went back to handling trailer and car loans. Mr. Hall said that his bank was buying the item direct using a direct loan and not buying the retail contracts. Tillion brought up the subject of an expiration date. Mr • • Fink wants to see an expiration date on this bill. Those in the banking business said it would be detrimental to them since they could not plan far enough ahead. It makes the banking community more unstable. No other state in the United States has such an expiration date. Mr. Hall said that it prohibits banks from going into long term trans- actions. Beirne asked how much damage had been done by the expiration date on the last legislation. Rettig said he couldn't give an answer on this. The reason is that each bank is different in their maximum loan levels. Randolph felt that it would be easy to document some cases where damage was done by the expiration last February 15. Beirne asked Tom what the effect of adding Randolph's amendment would be. He said it went beyond the realm of reasonableness. The chairman said that we would not amend this bill today. We will meet tomorrow and complete action, but will not take any further testimony. Meeting adjourned at 5:33 p.m. -15- ----------------------- Page 25----------------------- 1/31 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Wednesday, January 31, 1973 The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tillion at 3:40 p.m. in Room 104 o~ the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Orsini, McVeigh, Chance, Malone, and Hayden Kaden. Interest Tillion noted ,that the committee would be considering the SB 37 Rates/State Fink amendment to SB-37 Interest rates charged in the state. The Randolph amendment and also the Rettig proposal had been rejected. There was one more point for discussion and that was a cut-off date. Tillion said there had been some mention of two years, but he favored a four-year period. Malone ~elt that the hearings had been characterized by a lack of information on which to base a decision. For this reason, he suggested that the legislature by resolution establish an interim committee to make a study of this so we can get the information needed. Tillion said that the proposed committee would not come up with any more informa- tion than we now have. The banks won't let you look into their books. Fink's amendment would put it at 3 1/2 per- centage points above the federal reserve rate for one- to four-family dwellings and 4 1/2 percentage points above on long-term real estate. Tillion felt that we should probably allow mobile homes to go up to 9 1/2 per cent so the banks can participate in these loans. Under a conditional sales contract it is 18 per cent. Malone distributed a sheet on the condition of banks in Alaska. This was prepared by the Division of Banking in the Department of Commerce. This was the only thing he could find in writing on the subject. From these statistics it appears that the banks are stockpiling cash. (Banfield arrived 3:55 p.m.) Tillion noted that you really couldn't make that kind of comparison. Tillion asked the committee if they agreed on the Fink amend- ment down to Section 2. They did agree. Tillion said that he would like to use Fink's amendment for a com~ittee sub- stitute with no expiration date, or if an expiration date was desired that it be at least four years. Chance ~elt that before taking final action on this that we should look into the credit retail installment bill. That way we could reach a reasonable conclusion on both bills. Tillion did not agree to this suggestion, as he said that Tom had an amendment for the installment bill, too. -16- ----------------------- Page 26----------------------- 1/31 Page 2 Interest McVeigh felt that we should cover mobile homes. He thinks SB 37' ~' Rates/ that 18 per cent is bad for the consumer. Tillion also (. "-'" state would like it to cover mobile homes and heavy equipment. Banfield said this might cause a problem because you would have to define uheavy equipment". Tillion asked if it would be agreeable to only include mobile homes. There was no objection. Malone asked that each portion of the Fink amendment be considered separately. Banfield moved to accept Section 1. There was no'" objection. Tillion noted that bel) was acceptable. McVeigh moved to add mobile homes in Section 2. McVeigh, Tillion, Banfield, and Orsini voted yes. Motion carried. Tillion said that "or mobile home" would be included in Section 2. Hayden then asked if we needed the same terminology as in the original where it used the per annum rate charged by the federal reserve district. Tillion said this should be included. Malone thought we should say chattel mortgages or equipment. Banfield felt this would be better than saying mobile homes. If we do this then it wouldntt affect the mobile homes that are on real property. McVeigh suggested that we use the term "chattel mortgage". Hayden felt this vfould work best. There was no objection to using this term. McVeigh moved to accept the Fink amendment as amended by the committee. There was no objection. Hayden will prepare a committee substitute. He also mentioned one other point. In the orig- \-',, , ( I inal SB-37 there was a part that says that the notice would be provided by the Department of Commerce. This is not in this bill. Banfield felt this should be included. Hayden felt that a new section Cd) would be necessary to cover this. This was agreeable to the committee. McVeigh asked Hayden to check the repealer to make sure this was all right. The committee substitute will be brought back before the committee tomorrow. McVeigh moved to adjourn. Meeting adjourned at 4:45 p.m. -17- ----------------------- Page 27----------------------- 2/1 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Thursday, February 1, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:45 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Orsini, McVeigh, Malone, Chance, and Kaden, who is legal counsel for the committee. Interest SB-37 - Interest rates charged in the state - was the SB 37 Rates/State first item of discussion. Hayden had prepared two committee substitutes. The reason for this is that there was a problem with the language about the prevailing rate of interest. He talked to Mr. Fink about this and he said they set the rate at any time and not just quarterly. All the banks know what this rate is anyway so it doesn't have to involve the Depart- ment of Commerce necessarily. Orsini said he wants to have it outlined on a quarterly basis. McVeigh felt that .the two- page CS is more precise. Tillion felt that it wouldn't matter much since interest rates will be going up anyway. Hayden mentioned the comma after loan and wondered if it meant something specifically. McVeigh said that the comma was neces- sary and Tillion thought it should be inserted to correspond with the original SB-37. Hayden noted that this was not in the original bill but that it was necessary. McVeigh said that it made a lot of difference. The committee decided to n put the comma after "loan • It was decided to accept the two-page CS that Hayden prepared. (Banfield arrived 4:00 p.m.) Banfield moved to strike mobile homes and the expiration date of January 1, 1976. Orsini asked to have the question divided. Motion now was to strike out the four words "on a mobile home". Motion carried. Chance voted to leave this in. There was further discussion with regard to the expiration date. Tillion suggested that we use the same language as in the original bill for the cut-off date. Banfield was not in favor of having a cut-off date. (Beirne arrived 4:05 p.m.) Further discussion on the date showed that we should follow the date structure of the last law, namely, February 15, 1976. The committee decided to have a cut-off date, but Tillion felt it should be of longer duration. He suggested 1978. It was agreed that it should be in the second session of a legis- lature. Orsini moved to accept February 15, 1976. Chance, Malone and Orsini voted for this date. Motion failed. Tillion asked how many wished to have 1978. Tillion, Beirne, Banfield, and Chance voted for this date. Motion passed. Hayden said it would be difficult to add a new section at the bottom. The committee asked Hayden to work this out and bring back the CS by tomorrow morning. Beirne moved this bill out of committee. Chance objected. There were five liDo Passu votes; Chance and Malone voted "No Recommendation". -18- ----------------------- Page 28----------------------- 2/1 Page 2 '/" Cook HJR-IO - LOv-ler Cook Inlet Submerged Lands - was assigned to '_ Inlet McVeigh. The committee looked this resolution over and felt HJR IC Suornerged they could put it out today. Chance moved and asked unanimous Lands consent to move this resolution out of committee with a flDo Pass" recommendation. There was no objection. U.s. Terr. HCR-26 - U.S. Territorial Boundaries. Rep. Hartig wanted to Boundaries be heard on the resolution. Tillion explained how the Geneva HeR 2E Conference allowed boundaries to be determined. He also said that this resolution made mention of the Norway Fisheries case. There was no objection to putting this bill out. It was signed out unanimously "Do Pass n Chance moved to adjourn. No objection. Meeting adjourned at 4:38 p.m. -19- ----------------------- Page 29----------------------- 2/2 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Friday, February 2, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:40 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were McVeigh, Tillion, Orsini, Malone, and 'Hayden Kaden. Healing The first item for consideration was HB-32 - Healing Arts. HB 32 Arts The prime sponsor, Dr. Milo Fritz, testified in behalf of this bill. He said that his reason for introducing this bill was that it has become increasingly difficult for unenlightened people to distinguish between, for example, oculists, ophthalmologists"Doctor:of Osteopa.thy. It is hard enough to pronounce these titles, let alone 'know what they mean. This bill requires truth in labeling. He gave the example of a jar of jam. One is artifical coloring, preservatives, etc., and the other is the real thing.: If you don't care about that, it is all right, but if you do care, then it isa different matter. There are so many specialists in the medical field today, that people should be able to tell by looking at your sign or your stationery what kind of a doctor you are. He gave an example of a two- week training period for persons who give hearing tests. They wear a white coat and people call them doctor. They are prom- ised a certificate with a seal saying they are a Doctor of Audiometry. The average person needs to know that this per- son is not a doctor, say like an M.D. McVeigh asked Dr. Fritz what the practice is now among chiro- practors, osteopaths, and clinical people. He said that some of them used unnecessary initials. For instance, O.D. has several meanings. Tillion noted that Oregon and Washington already have laws similar to this one. McVeigh moves this bill out "Do Pass" and asks unanimous consent. There was no objection. Relating HB I - Relating to Guides. Rep. Hartig testified in favor HB I to Guides of the Resources Committee Substitute. This bill is designed to protect fish and game management. There was a change in the make-up of the board. At one time all board members had to have licenses. The committee felt that these resources belonged to all the people ann not just the guides. The whole idea is to, get competent people as guides in Alaska. They are going to be governing their own profession. Mr. Hartig thinks this is a good law. This meets with the Governor's criteria and the guides said they could live within this law. The next change was on Page 2, paragraph 4. This was added to give a list of all registered guides. A new paragraph (5) was added to compile and publish a record of registered or master guides who have cO,mpleted a contract hunt in any of the three years immediately preceding the publishing of the record. The purpose is that when a person writes for a list of guides he can get the published list. This is because the best guides just don't advertise. They don't have to. -20- ----------------------- Page 30----------------------- 2/2 Page 2 What has been the experience in the past is that two or three guides will get all of the letters from persons wanting to be (~ taken out on hunts, when we really have 150 or more available. Relating Under this arrangement, when Fish and Game gets letters, they HB 1 to Guides will only be able to send them a list of registered or master guides, with no comment. There will be an asterisk next to the name of a guide who has contracted a hunt within the last three years. There was a change in the qualifications clause. Some people are fully qualified and are master guides. Now, they will not '; 'i have to serve the three-year apprenticeship. This is on Page 6, Line 24. Tillion noted that he still had to ta~ the exam- ination but he wouldn't have to have guided for three years. Orsini asked if you were reprimanded by the board, would you be taken off the master guide list and put on the registered guide list. Rep.Hartig said if you had committed:some illegal act, you would lose your license period. Hayden asked about section 150. He felt this was too severe to make a registered guide or master guide criminally liable for the acts of his agents. This may )lor may not be with his knowledge. Tillion thought this was standard say for para-medics. McVeigh said this was for civil acts but not for criminal acts. This is under 16.48.150. Rep. Hartig said the reason for attaching responsibility to the master guide or registered guide was that when they send out an incompetent person and he should make a bad decision and someone got hurt, then you need to hold the master guide responsible. He felt that maybe this could be clarified. Tillion didn't think it would hurt anything to leave it in. McVeigh objected because these included violations of a federal. or: state statutes or Game regulations. Some of these are penal statutes. Hayden felt we should tie it to the sec- tion on guides by saying this only applied to Section 200 of this Act. Hayden felt that common law would take care of the civil and criminal conspiracy. It was agreed to amend the Resources CS by adding after the word "responsible"; "under sec. 200 of this chaptertl Orsini asked Rep. Hartig what opposition was there to this bill. He said the guides want it and the people need it. Keith Specking arrived just in time to say a few words in favor of his bill. He said the bill has cleared two previous years in both the House and Senate. This is essentiallf. the same bill. Malone moved to send this bill out "Do Pass t as amended. This was the CS for HB 1. The vote was unanimous. Meeting was adjourned at 4:15 p.m. -21- ----------------------- Page 31----------------------- 2/5 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Monday, February 5, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:40 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Banfield, Orsini, McVeigh, and Kaden. Open to The first item for consideration was HB-73 - Open to Entry HB 73 Entry "Lands Lands. Rep. Warwick, the sponsor, attended this meeting to testify in its behalf. He said that under this program now any resident of the United states can come up here and stake a few acres that the state of Alaska has. Since the land belongs to the state, it should be restricted to state residents. Mr. Warwick also noted that ads are published in national publications telling about this land. Tillion said some have only been here 30 days and have filed for this land. . Banfield gave the example of soldiers during the war filing on such land; then losing interest and leaving the state which left this land tied up_ McVeigh commented on (3} on Page 3. He felt it was more legally:' correct: to:: say 'is not claiming If. There was no objection to this amendment. McVeigh felt that we should tie residency down a little closer. He felt there were too many arguments about residency as opposed to domiCile. McVeigh thought we should use a residency requirement of one year or maybe six months. He also felt that we should give a better definition of what residency means. Tillion said we should add: "has been a resident for one year in the state immediately preceding his application for lease. If This will be added as (3) and the original (3) will be renumbered as (4). (Malone arrived at 3:50 p.m .. ) McVeigh moves to adopt all of these amendments. There was no ob- jection. So ordered. Orsini moved to put this bill out as amended with a IfDo Passu recommendation. This was signed out unanimously "Do Passll. McVeigh requested a letter from the people that administer these lands giving their view on this bill. Tillion will phone them on this matter. Minors on The next item for consideration was HB-160 - Minors on HB 160 Licensed Licensed Premises. The chairman said the sponsor didn't Premises feel it wa? necessary to appear before the committee since this was a simple bill. Tillion said that he had checked with the ABC Board and they recommend this bill. The trouble they have been having :is that one -person is 19 years of age and he or she brings a lot of friends that are much younger. This makes it difficult for the management. Banfield noted that she remembered the reason this was put in there was to cover the young people working in the bar. (Chance arrived at 4:00 p.m.) Banfield said that we could pass bills like this and then have somebody pass some regulations that will -22- ----------------------- Page 32----------------------- 2/5 Page 2 make it so stringent you may even have to have written con- HB 160 ( sent to take someone else's children with you when you go "'- to dinner. This also precludes grandmother and grandfather Minors on from taking their grandchildren to dinner where drinks are Licensed served. These are usually the nicer places to eat~ like Premises hotels. Tillion felt these could be considered temporary guardians. McVeigh said this was not the case and would have to be the legal guardian. Tillion felt that we had a problem that needed to be corrected. Chance said all that was necessary was to enforce the law as it is now written. The establishments would have to call the minor's parents to see if they had permission to be there. Tillion said he would like to put this bill out of committee. Malone moves to report this bill out of committee with individual recom- mendations. Tillion and Orsini voted flDo passu; Beirne, Banfield, Malone, Chance, and McVeigh signed it "Without recornmendation fl • (Beirne arrived at 4:15 p.m.) Appt. of HB-156 - Appointment of Special Committees. This was Mr. HB 156 Spec. Comma Orsini's bill and he testified in its behalf. He said he had a series of rules changes that he was proposing and one pertained to a change in statute, namely the one on special committees. This will take the power of the pre- siding officer to appoint such committee and leave it up to the Rules Committee. It really doesn't make any differ- ence. We could wait until the Rules changes pass and then we could look at this again. Tillion said he had no objection to moving this bill to Rules. Orsini moved to pass "this bill out of committee. Banfield objects. She thought we should lea e it in this committee until we see about the Rules changes. Malone seconds Orsini's motion. McVeigh noted that joint rules supersede the statute but they do not supersede the const"itutio • This bill was signed with individual recommendations. Orsini and Malone signed ffDo Passrl; Chance and Tillion signed "No recommendations tl ; Banfield and McVeigh signed liDo Not pass". Malone moved to adjourn. Meeting adjourned at 4:30 p.m. -23- ----------------------- Page 33----------------------- 2/7 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Wednesday, February 7, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:35 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Malone, Chance, Orsini, Tillion, McVeigh, and Kaden Rep. Hartig attended this meeting to recommend passage of Narcotics HB 175 - Narcotics/Division of state troopers - and HB 176 HB Division Appropriation for same. Mr. Hartig noted that anyone that HB was here last year, probably remembered the subcommittee on drug abuse that was formulated at that time. The sub- committee issued a report on drug abuse and the dangers involved. He offered a copy of this report to the chairman for any committee members who had not already received one. There is great concern about stopping drug traffic in the state. The Department of Public Safety and the DA's office say they dontt have the money to do a good job. That is the reason for these bills. Rep. Hartig said that he had met with Colonel Dankworth and that he has come up with a proposal listing what it would take to curb the drug traffic. Mr. Hartig offered the committee copies of his proposal. This will be under the Criminal Investigation Board and will . be staffed by five troopers and a supervisor. There is also scheduled purchase of additional dogs. They would plan on having dogs in Anchorage, Fairbanks, and Juneau and probably one dog that would be sent to different areas of the state. There would also be a dog at Tok to check persons coming into the state. This is really a message from the legis- lature that we .are truly, interested in stopping drug traffic and especially hard drugs. They will report back next session showing whether or not they have curbed drugs successfully or not. At that time if the program didn't work, it just would not be refunded the next year. Chance asked if the commissioner could put this is his bud- get. She was told that the Governor only allowed maintenance budgets this year. No new programs would be funded. Hartig noted that money was the main problem and this was the only way this could be funded. This sets aside the money for a specific purpose and can be used for no other programs. Then there will. be a complete report submitted to the legislature next year. She said that this bill was (HB 175) only the authorization and did not include the funding. Also, it does not have to go to Finance. There has been problems in the past where there has been an authorization but not any money to carry through. Tillion didn't think that Finance should get authorization bills beca~se they could in effect veto them by just not funding them. Orsini noted that the funding would occur on July 1 and the report would be submitted to the next legislature. He wanted to know if this was going to be enough time. Mr. Hartig said it would give an idea of how much progress could be made. -24- ----------------------- Page 34----------------------- 2/7 Page 2 Rep. Meekins asked if it wasn't sometimes more reasonable to have a separate agency make the report. It appeared to HB 175 him that they had a vested interest in how the report gave HB 176 the statistics. It could possibly be a separate department Narcotics in the agency that makes the report. Just so they are dif- Division ferent from: the ones that are conducting the program. He also asked what was covered under narcotics and dangerous drugs. Mr. Pat Wellington, Deputy Commissioner of Public Safet~y, said that this included everything except alcohol and tobacco. McVeigh said that he thought the new federal act specifically listed these drugs and gives the specific name for them. Hayden said they were listed in Chapter 17 of the Alaska statutes. Mr. Hartig noted that for several years there have been efforts on the part of various service organizations to stop drug trafficking. These programs have emphasis for awhile and then they would die out for lack of direction. Chance asked if the dogs could sniff out heroin, too. Mr. Wellington said they could but that they were trained separ- ately; one for marijuana and the other for heroin. Mr. Wellington explained that up until now the emphasis had been on patrolling around the highschools and picking up the indi- vidual who uses a cigarette or two. There has not been any big effort to stop the hard drug traffic because of lack of money to do the job. We want to direct our efforts to the person who is involved in importing hard drugs and those that make their living from this activity. He said he did not want to see a report come back next year showing 1500 arrests with 1~95 being high school students. He said the report would more likely show five or six arrests with a large amount of drugs involved. You will have to rely on the policy of the Commissioner that we are going to do the job properly. Some of these people may have to be watched two or three years before we can make a purchase from them through our undercover agents. He said they probably would have an individual working in Seattle developing contacts. It is necessary to pay especial attention to our borders. Chance felt that if this were put into law and a narcotics division were formed that they should place their emphasis on heroin. Mr. Wellington said they had planned on both heroin and marijuana. Chance then asked if there would be any problem with the Division of Personnel as regards the undercover agents. Mr. Wellington said this could be a problem but that they would plan on hiring on a contractual basis. If this was true, Chance then asked if the persons hired would have the benefits of the merit system. He said they would. Hartig said it would be necessary to do this by contract because that was the only way they could keep things top secret. Mr. Wellington said that the personal contracts -25- ----------------------- Page 35----------------------- 2/7 Page 3 ( would go to Administration' and the Department of Law pre- HB 175 pares the legal contracts. Another comment is that the HB 176 Division of State Troopers will be handling the situation~ Narcotics but the Commissi.oner will be the one making the report to Divi.sion the Legislature. Colonel Dankworth will not be making the report. '!McVeigh said he was in favor of this bill but that he wanted the police to realize that the drug problem will not be solved through enforcement. We want the police to assist in treating the problem~ also. Hartig said you would drive up the price of drugs if you are willing to take a chance in turning in the big dealer. Along with this is a program for stringent sentencing and a rehabilitation program. Chance said that was her' objection to the report submitted last year. It was only on the arrest level but nothing on rehabilitation or prevention. McVeigh asked Mr. Wellington if the Governor supported this bill. He said he hadn't talked to him, but that the Governor is very strong against drugs and he felt he would support it. Tillion suggested sending the bill to Rules and having it held there until the appropriation bill was passed by Finance;, He said he was reluctant to send the bill to Finance because they might hold it. McVeigh felt it really wouldn't make any difference in this case, whether or not the appropriation was passed because if this bill were passed it would not affect the public, only the department. They just wouldn't be able to set up their units. The Anchorage Precinct #14 Chairman, Paul~ asked the committee chairman if he could make a few comments. He said he would like to comment on the entry of hard drugs into Alaska. He said he knew people who used drugs and that he had never known of any heroin coming in at points of entry in Alaska. The supplies come in from Vietnam and Thailand through the military bases. He felt that unless you could take care of thi on the bases there would be very little accomplishment shown. He felt this division could be used to harass people who use a small amount of marijuana for their OVln use. He felt it would also be an inconvenience to tourists coming into the state. Chip Thoma~ with Paul, commented that the place heroin is coming in is in the body bags of dead servicemen. Tillion asked Mr. Wellington how many heroin addicts we had in this state. He said it was about 100. Meekins felt it would be beneficial to have a letter of intent to make sure that this wasn't used to harass young people. There was some discussion on this point and Tillion felt we could write a report saying that the emphasis is to be on hard drugs and on large shipments of dangerous drugs. Pat Wellington agreed that alletter of intent would be a good thing. If a committee report is prepared then any member (,- of the committee who wishes may write a minority report. Hayden will draft a committee report and bring it back to the committee for approval. The bill will be held in com- mittE?e until the committee report is completed and approved. (McVeigh' left at 4:30 p.m.) -26- ----------------------- Page 36----------------------- 2/7 Page 4 HB - 148 - Nomination and qualification of candidates. ! Orsini said they had talked about this in state Affairs HB 148 \,~ and that they came out with an amendment. As it is now~ the only time the Lieutenant Governor can take action is Nomination if he determines there is a discrepancy on the person's of can- nomination. There is no' provision for when a candidate didates doesn't meet the qualifications. That is the purpose of this bill. Discussion then turned to Page 3~ Line 19-- this mentions that a candidate has 10 days in which to ans- wer. Mr. Orsini thinks it should say 10 days after receipt of the letter from the Lieutenant Governor. Tillion read the cover letter from the Governor which accompanied this bill. This will be scheduled for further consideration tomorrow,. HB-150 - Selection of candidates/special elections. This Sel. of is to make it plain that the central committee as well as candidates the convention can select candidates for statewide office in the absense of a specific party rule. Chance said this was what caused the confusion and said that they adjourned the convention without adopting the resolution giving the authority to the central committee for selection. Tillion said if they hadn't already endorsedtheir candidate for statewide they would have had to have a convention. Chance said that this gives it flexibility. This will be given further consideration tomorrow along with HB 148. Chance moved to ajourn at 5:00 p.m. There was no objection. -'Z(- ----------------------- Page 37----------------------- 2/B HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Thursday, February 8, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:40 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Malone, Orsini, Tillion, McVeigh, Banfield, and Kaden. The chairman noted that we would be discussing the committee HB 17: Narcotics report on HB-175 - Narcotics Division/ Department of Public HB 171 Division Safety. We will also consider HB 176 - Appropriation for same. Committee members read the committee report and did not agree on the last sentence. Tillion noted that we were sending the authorization to Rules and tho/appropriation to Finance. Banfield asked about the testimony from the day before. Tillion outlined what had gone on before and said that this operation is to find out where the hard drugs are coming from and nail the big importers. The regular day- to-day user is already covered under existing statutes. Tillion explained that it would take a lot of money to get some of the really big importers of hard drugs. It was decided that more work should be done on the wording of this report. McVeigh will work on this and report back to the committee on Monday. Nomination HB 148 - Nominatim and qualification of candidates. Malone HB 148 '"'-r candid. had a question on 11. He felt this would be difficult to enforce candidates to follow party principles at all times. He would like to reserve the right to differ from the party at times. Tillion said there should be no problem because you sign a statement under oath. Banfield said she also objected to (11). Tillion didn't feel this was a tight as the committees members thought. He said there ''Jas a differ- ence between principles and platform. Banfield asked if (14) said you could run for two seats. Orsin said it meant Congress and State office. Tillion said we didn' want that. Tillion said (going back to (11) that when you get down to the part on petitions then it makes more sense. Mrs. Banfield was assigned to do further research on this bill. Malone asked for an explanation of (12). Tillion said that one means that if you have to get a percentage of the voters before you can get on the ballot and you are in an area where the other party controls overwhelmingly, you might not be able to get a completed petition. McVeigh and Banfield will work on HB 148. Orsini said all the subscribers had to do was support the nomination, they don't have to vote' for him. Banfield s~id she Signed such petitions for people running for school board, or other office, all the time. It didn't mean that she eventually voted for them. Orsini mentioned the policy of a life-long party member, filing with the other party in order to win the election. He doesn't think this should be so easy. Tillion said that in the past you could do this if you filed as an independent. . -28- ----------------------- Page 38----------------------- 2/8 Page 2 HB-l50 - Candidates/statewide offices. Tillion said that this i / allowed the c'entral committee of either party in the event of HB 1501 a special selection to do the nominating. Banfield noted that this was for statewide candidates only. Malone wanted to check Sel. of AS 15.40.090. Hayden read from the statutes. Malone didn't candidates think it was necessary to have direct nomination through the central committee and felt there should be a convention. Tillion noted that this was only to cover filling a vacancy. This vlould avoid two elections; the primary and then the general. If the vacancy occurs less than one month and more than three months before the next general election then it will be by petition delivered before September 2. He said he didn't really see any conflict. This allows the party central committee if the bylaws do not provide anything else .. In the Senate there is no problem" the Governor just appoints . someone to fill the vacancy. It is only for Congressman that you have this problem. Malone said that he disagreed philosophically that would allow the central committee to make the appointment and not go to direct elections. Orsini moves HB-150 out of committee. There was no objection. .Tillion, McVeigh" Banfield" and Orsini signed "Do Pass fl • Malone signed uNo recommendation". Banfield asked if party rules could say that we had to go to election. Tillion felt if the party said that" that would be what you would have to do. Hayden didn t t think the state could be bound by party rules. (Banfield left at l.J.: 30 p. m. ) Malone moved to adjourn. No objection, meeting adjourned at 4:45 p.m. -29- ----------------------- Page 39----------------------- 2/13 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMl4ITTEE MINUTES OF ~~E MEETING Tuesday" February 13, 1973 / \ '\~ Chairman Tillion caRed the meeting to order in Room 10L~ of the Assembly Apartments at 3:40 p.m. Present were Malone, Tillion, Orsini, McVeigh, and Kaden. HB 23 - Pari-mutuel betting.. This bill was taken up as a HB 23 courtesy to Mr. Al Martin, manager of the state Pair at Pari--mutue1 Palmer .. He:testified in favor of this bill. He said that betting all fairs in the state agreed to support pari-mutuel betting for horse races on fairgrounds. They now have decided to include sled dog races. This will be a benefit not only to the fairs, winter carnivals, etc., but in a few years would be piQviding a means of revenue to the state. This plan would include creation of a racing commission.. He gave some examples of how this has worked out in the lower 48. California takes in over $40 million per year of which $6 million goes for the policing of pari-mutuel betting and part of the funds go into supporting their fairs. He said the state Fair Association felt they had an obligation to the state to support themselves. He feels that with this bill they may be able to do this. The money gained could be used in lieu of tax money to support fairs as is the case now~ He said that Washington state funds from their pari-mutuel betting go to support their fairs. (Beirne and Banfield arrived 3:50 p.m.) Mr. Martin explained that money placed in pari-mutuel betting is only paj_d back at a percentage of the wirL.Yling wager.. One percentage goes to the racing commission which does the policing, and one percentage should be tied to anything that the legislature decides. He enviSioned the proceeds going for the funding of fairs in the state. Orsini asked Mr. Martin about the additional cost when you start getting into off-track betting and the beginning of a gambling type of function. He said they did not anticipate this type of betting but that this would be the duty of the racing c01!llnission. He said they only wanted to have on-track betting at the fairs. Tillion asked if this would be a year round program. Mr. Martin said it couldn't be because we never have enough snow on the ground all year round for sled dog racing and they would have the horse racing during the fairs. McVeigh said we only allowed dog racing, but no bet- ting was allowed. Orsini felt that we should have a com- panion bill setting up the racing commission. McVeigh felt this could be done by appointment by the Governor. Banfield felt that it should be set up legislatively. Malone said he had received a letter from the Department of Revenue stating that the revenues from lotteries were not equal to the cost of administering same. He hoped that would not be the case with this program. -30- ----------------------- Page 40----------------------- I 2/13 ~ Page 2 I The chairman ass:i_gned this bill to M:D,lone and McVeigh for h-IB 23 ( further research.. Mr. Martin continued with his testimony. \ He said that at the present time the state fairs are non- Pari-mutual profi t associations ,::tnd they had their begin..11.ing back in betting Territorial Days. There is an operating grant received from the state \'~Th:Lch the Fai.r must provide as an equal amount of funding. These funds must be spent in a specl!':Led manner. At the present time, the funds allocated in the Governor's budget for this has been reduced from prior years. We are having more fairs each year~ but the funds are being reduced. He said they had recei.ved constructlon grants for buildings but he didn f t think c.ould go on eZ..})ecting f'lnancing for capital improvements. ~lJith this legislation he feels they could provide the needed funds. He said with pari-mutuel betting the funds from grandstand seats and entT'J fees into the races would provide them with the needed funds for operating C03tS a.nd also to expand into other programs" Orsini asked what use was put to the faiJ~grounds the rest of the year.. Mr. Martin said the schools were not using the grounds at the present time because there is no heat in any of the buildings. They do have indoor skating now but would like to expand community activities. The City of Palmer also uses the grounds for their Colony Days pro- gram. Orsini said if the purpose of the bill was to get the fairgrounds on a self-supporting basis possibly there are additional things that the manager could do to promote year round usage of the buildings. Mr. Martin said they "'Tere very much in favor of this. Orsini felt we should hear from people involved in la1.'! enforcement before we make the final decision on this bill .. HB i75 and HB 176 - Narcotics DiVision/State Troopers HB 175 Narcotics and Appropriation. Mr. Olof Hellen, Assistant Public HB 176 Division Defender, testified in opposition of this bill. He felt that if this bill were passed, the committee should also appropriate monies to cover increased court costs, rehab- ilitation costs and employment programs for addicts. He reported that at a Drug Abuse Institute held in June of 1972 it was noted that in no case did they find the police fulfilling their assignment or being able to do \vhat they said they could do in stopping drug traffic. He didn't think Alaska could change this trend by passing this legis- lation. You also get an increase in the heroin rate if there has been a shutdoi.rvn because it becomes easier to obtain. Marijuana can be found by dogs and other meru1s while heroin can be concealed much easier. The marijuana users then switch to heroin. Along with the increase in the use of heroin, you will find an increase in robberies and violent crimes to pay for the higher priced heroin. Along this line, you will have the increased costs of pros- ecution and defense laV-Tyers, because these people have a right to defense. If you provide $500,000 for law enforce- ment then you will have to provide that much for Corrections, Depa.rtment of Law, prosecution office, and Public Defender's Office. They 1.'1ill all say they need more money. -31- ----------------------- Page 41----------------------- 2/13 Page 3 Chance asked Mr .. Hellen if he had considered taking away HB 175 /{ the profit motive. Tillion mentioned the English system. HB 176 ( " ',,<',,-/ Chance said this would solve the related crimes that are Narcotics committed in order to buy the drugs. Mr. Hellen said that Division Alaska does not have an operating program of rehabilitation foraddiets. Most emphasis is being placed on more law enforcement. McVeigh said there was a pilot program using the methadone treatment but Chance noted that this program had been underfunded. McVeigh said the problem 'was that the addicts Vfere not required to take the methadone on the premises.. Beirne said the major problem vlas the addicts became addicted to the methadone.. She would like to see more emphasis on rehabilitative treatment or at least an equal amount spent for both. - Malone referred to the memo presented to the cow~ittee by Representative Hartig. Beirne noted that this bill did not address itself to the postal system. She gave examples of how drugs can be brought into Alaska. She feels that the people using the postal route to bring drugs in are probably only small de~lers. She felt if this bill passed, that we should put out a bill for rehabilitation programs which would be needed immediately. Beirne said she could see taking the amount sho\o'ln in the memo for drug enforcement and then take marijuana out of it. She would then like to see the addi- tional sum of $225,000 used for rehabilitation and prevention. Chance suggested the committee put in a CS for HB 176, then asked for time to have another bill prepared to cover the rehabilitation part. There was some discussion as to the effectiveness of rehabilitation programs. Banfield moved that HB 175 be amended to include only nar- cotic drugs enforcement and that HB 176 be appropriately funded at $300,000 and have the committee substitues ,pre- pared and brought back to the committee for perusal. Orsini felt that Mr. Hartig should have been here because the memo might not reflect the true costs of this program. Malone felt that the department would spend the money any ;..vay they saw fit, therefore he felt a committee report should be sub- mitted to show our intent. Tillion said there would be committee substitutes prepared. House Bill No. 175 would also have the title changed to read ffdangerous drugs enforce- ment unitTI. House Bill No. 176 would also show this change. McVeigh will prepare the wording on the committee report. Banfield withdrew her previous motion and moved to change both bills by taking out "da.ngerous drugs" and asked unan- imous consent. There "vas no obj ection .. Committee substitutes will be prepared. Malone asked that the committee further change the appropriatio bill to be $350~OOO instead of the $500>000. and so moved. He felt this would be a sufficient amount. Chance felt we -32- ----------------------- Page 42----------------------- 112/13 Fa·ere 4 ! o II l' should ask Public Safety if this amount would be enough il HB 1'75 ( money to do the job. Then we could put in the appropriate IH' 76 arnount in the bill.. Tillion said lfJhen the Commissioner was Narcotics here he said he couldn't do it for less than the $500,000. I A Division Chance noted that we are n01 T limiting this to narcotic drugs I so the budgetary requirements ~-vould be different. She felt we could ask for a memo stating what amount they needed under ~ the program for narcotic drugs only. McVeigh felt that the I Finance Comrnittee could deal \'lith that part of it. ! Chip :J Anello ., asl.?,:ed if he con,ld comment on this i bill.. The chairman permitted him five minutes of testimony. He distributed articles from two magazines to all committee I members.. He testified in opposition to the bills~ He said the reason he opposed this bill was that he has not seen any indication that the state police" v.yho are getting federal funds, are capable of doing what they say they want to do .. He then reviei;~ed the tiNO articles from the magazines. He gave the example of trying to close off the Mexican border to drugs. They were unsuccessful. What it did do was cause the marijuana users to s·wj_tch to heroin because it v'fas easier to get. He said that from his experience in the 1 ::i -r..~:l Y'<'("l+··i A C1"j-1>i'rr'"'. enrr.>orce- .L..J~..... "-',~'-... \..I.J..• _>,_ . _ I .L v. J...,:....v_ ...... '_. v_.\.... ",. AC;:.>::t J. . DIvIsIon ment unit and an appropriation for same. Mrs. Beirne said she would like to include a paragraph to our committee report showing that the comrnittee is interested in main- tenance as w~ll as law enforcement. This meeting was for the purpose of completing action on House Bills No. 175 and 176. Banfield moved to pass the CS for HB 175 out of committee vIith a fr Do Pass If recommendation. Orsini objected. This bill was signed out unanimously "Do Passt! after Orsini removed his objection. Chance moved that the additional paragraph as prepared by Helen Beirne be adopted into the committee report. Orsini and Tillion voted no., but all the rest voted yes to this motion. Motion carried. ( \ Yl Banfield 1 ,Dved and asked unanimous consent to pass CSHB 176 out of cOlY'J'ni ttee VIi th a tfDo Pass H recommendation. There was no objection. All signed fiDo Pass!! for the CS except Joe Orsini signed "DO Pass tt for the original bill. Chance moved that the bill by Beirne be introduced by the Judiciary Committee and be accompanied by a committee report. She asked unanimous consent. Orsini and Tillion voted no. Meeting adjourned a~ 5:35 p .. m.. -35- ----------------------- Page 45----------------------- 2/15 HOUSE tTUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Thursday, February 15, 1973 ( Chairman Tillion call·ed the meeting to order at 3: 35 p. ID. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Chance, Tillion, Orsini, Malone and Kaden. Representative Parker attended this meeting to testify HJR 20 in behalf of his HJR-20 - Amendment to amendment and Amend. to ~ision section of the Constitution of the state of Amend &RevisAlaska .. He felt th.is resolution was necessary because Sect. as it is now the amendments are voted on at the next state- ~\lide ballot. At the urging of the Alaska League of Women Voters, he made this resolution to say it 'V'lould be at the next general election. More people vote in the general election and the ballot is not so long. He felt there would be less chance of confusing the people on important issue such as changing the constitution. This would also give time for both sides to present the facts of the change. Malone felt that which ballot it would be included in was not the more important issue, but he felt the problem was lack of information at all. Parker felt with the longer period of time> people could be more informed. Malone was really concerned about lack of information of these matters and gave the example of residency of voters. People thought they were voting for one thing and it turned out they were voting for another .. ( Mrs. Hopkins, League of Women of Voters, said she didn't feel this would solve the problem of voter information.. She was in favor of this resolution. Orsini commented that the League of l OY"-i O'-j na] one c (Ban+'l'AId and • ..J- 0 ..._..... 0 u:...A... "-'" v __ V\,"_ t; __~\""~ ..... ..l. V~...-.'~ -'- ....!...e,~- ~... ):) ~ ..L ......... \. P McVeigh arrived.4: 10 p. m.. ) 1'le are working "vith what vras prepared as a CS for HB 18.. Malone vIas very concerned where we were saying this would not work for highways and hospitals but felt we might be leaving something else out. He didn't see how we could tie the monies down when at election time VIe have so 1ittle information about the bond issue and the construction~ The only way to solve these problems of mis- use of funds no'Vv is to take the case to court as a private citizen. Malone moved that the language contained in the resolution regarding transfer of monies be included in the CS for HB 18. Hayden didn't think that it was necessary to repeat the constitutional language in the statute in the CS. I Chance asked if this couldn't be done in the bond authorization bill. Tillion said this had been done twice and both times ha been disregarded. McVeigh moved to table the measure. McVeigh, Chance and Banfield voted to table. Orsini, Tillion and Malon voted no. Motion failed .. Halone said because of lack of voter information he had to raise a couple of questions. vlhy is the administration spend- ing money some place else? and (2) it says here the Lieutenant Governor shall prepare and issue and make available the state- ment of thescope of each proposal. We aren't getting these. -37- ----------------------- Page 47----------------------- 2/15 Page 3 HE 18 ( Malone felt that tying dOifln· the projects is a separate question from the question of providing information to the voters. McVeigh noted that you did not want to do this G.O. Bonds on your bond authorization because it would be too easy to be in violation and't1lhen the projects run to five years., you itJouldn t t be able to make alterations.. Malone agreed with McVeigh on this because he had seen some bond issues wb.ere it "\AlaS impossible to spend the money the way it was intended. Malone withdrew his previous motion. He moved on CSHB 18 to strike all the bill after the 't~Tord ffprojec.t H on Line 18.. Banfield asked \Alha t he itlould do about highways .. 1;Jere they to list all of their projects? He amended his motion to start after ifAlaska Statute" on Line 15. Orsini noted that "on Line 13 Beach proj ect tI 'V'lasmentioned. The chairman ass'igned this to Malone and Kaden to prepare a pas sable bill.. It v'Tas noted that the constitutional amend- ment 'V'fould take 27 votes. Orsini moved to table the con- stitional amendment~ There was no objection. Malone noted that it \'las his intent to ha.ve information provided to the voters or electorate on the projects com- ing up and also he agreed that this was an unworkable thing to say that the money shall be spent on these particular projects and on nothing \ else in any case. Orsini said he only wanted it to show that if there were changes that there would be an explanation for same. Malone asked what part Legislative Budget and Audit could play in this. Tillion said this was a good idea and maybe they could say any changes wotl.ld have to be cleared by the Budget and Audit Committee. Banfield said they couldn't give per- mission. Malone felt they did this without permission from anyone at the present time. Tillion said Kaden and Malone would 1ATork on this further. Meeting adjourned at 4:30 p.m. \-:-", -33- ----------------------- Page 48----------------------- 2 16 11 / HOUSE JUDICIAl1Y COMMITTEE OF fIlliE HEBtrtING ~ / Friday, February 16, 1973 II \ The chairman called the meeting to order at 3:45 p.m. I Eoom lOft of the Assembly Apartn'Lents ~ Present '·'Iere ti frillion, Orsini, Banfield, HcVeigh,a:nd Kaden .. U The corrJnittee met to consider the bills sponsored by Mr~ IHB 92 Fink and Mr. Huber.. HB 92 .- Rela,ting to contractual Contractual restrictions/interest,- was the first item for discussion. Restrts./ ..Fink said thjs bt11 188,8 dec;i.grtGd to l11ake c1ear (;ornmon Interest la'w and if the AG f s office was active in this regard you probably vlouldn't even need a bill. Some institutions that extend credit put in the document language that says if you are going to sell you will have to have their per- mlss:Lon~ He gave the example of borro1ving $40,000 from a bank and you v-Tant to sell your equity. You borrowed the money at 7 per cent. v-Jhether or not you get this per- mission, they declare the whole amount due and payable. If they approve of the purchaser, they will rewrite the contract at say 8 1/2 per cent, and charge one to two-per cent of the amount of the loan for closing costs. Up to this time" there haventt been any institutions that have done this, but they have threatened to do so. The reason this hasn't been enforced is that in common law there has been a restriction. Real estate must be freely transfer- able. He said he had personal experience along this line and before th.;El.t it was a real estate man that called him about it~ McVeigh felt that if he loaned some money to an individual that that person should have the obligation to pay it back and should not be able to transfer his interest without his permission. Fink said he didntt intend for the first individual to be released, but only to allow him to sell to someone else and keep the first contract in force. i"falone asked if this would include an option .. Fink said he thought it would. He said he only had in mind real es tate trus t deeds" though. Hr. FirL1.c said he didntt say you should have to release the original borrower but the original OOrr01f7er should be able to transfer the contract without the institution asking for the whole amount to be due and payable. Orsini asked if he sold his mortgage to Ivfr. Fink, he has a lo~'l interest rate, would he still be liablee Mr. Fink said he would buy from Orsini because of the l01AJer interest rate.. He would give a quit claim deed subject to the mortgage. 1111' .. Fink l.'Iould agree to assume the mortgage but if the payments '{Heren t t made both 1'Jould be liable for the amount due. ( -39- ----------------------- Page 49----------------------- 2/16 Page 2 ( Tillion asked what would be the case if the original borrower \ left the state.. Fink said you could take him to court. He HB 92 then asked Mr. Fink about selling his property to one person Contractual and then having the transfer made to a family wlth twelve Restrcts/ c hildren i,~Jho v'fould depreciate his property greatly. Fink Interest sa~d there was no protection against that even nowo This wouldnYt change any. McVeigh said the only relief in this instance would be in the courts where you could recover everything above fair wear and tear on your property_ Tillion then asked what would happen if you knew the borrower was leaving. Fink said the banks cover their contracts only with the real estate, not the person. (Malone and Chance arrived 4:00 p.m.) HB 93 - Interest computation/extension credit. Mr. Speaker HE 93 Computation said this bill does what the law already provides for Vii th of Interest respect to interest computation 'VIlhen there is an extension of credit. In precomputation of interest you are paying advance interest at a stated contract rate. In many cases you are paying interest in advance and this is all right. But, if I have an 8 per cent loan I shouldn't have tobe 8 per cent on the balance as of say February 5 because it is not due until March 5. If I pay the interest in advance it works out that I am paying more than the 8 per cent· as stated in the contract. He gave an example of life insur- ( ance. That is about equal to seven per cent but they say it is five because you do this at the beginning of the year rather than at the end of the year. What I am saying is that the effective rate you are paying should not exceed what it states in the contract. . This bill also address itself to another point. This is on Line 14 and concerns a 365-day year. Many lending institution use only 360 days but charge interest on a 365-day year. Banfield asked if we couldn't put it in the bill that you rouldn't precompute interest rates. Mr. Fink didn't think we should do that. Malone asked if there was a definition fOT "financial institution H.. McVeigh felt vve should have one .. HB 95 - Confidentiality/bank records. Mr. Fink said that HB 95 Confident./ Mr .. Ehrich would carry this bill. This has been before the Bank Records legislature before and it has never passed the House. This says banks may disclose credit information about their depositors but is not mandatory. No~v that we have trtlth-in- lending it is a more favorable time for this. Ti.-\fo years ago you couldntt look at a person's credit rating. Things have changed. They have to show you the basis upon "~Thich your rating was established.. Sometimes it has been based upon error, but now they are supposed to correct the error / when shown the proper proof that it is in error. \ ~ "\~ -40- ----------------------- Page 50----------------------- , 2/16 Page 3 t There is another pelrt to this bill, too ~ This is that you IHB gr; ( only hurt the borrower when you cant get credit information \ by telephone. If I have to wait to get a credit rating by -- ,"'" ro '. rl c. t / mail and someone 1fJants to borrOTH $300, I would just tell C\)~l..Ll~c;n. '1 t -1..... !.."t 0·· k d Of ') • "11 k ·!....I..h B' 1 R~ "d ~nem 0 ~orge~ 1. rSlnl as-e 1 ~nlS Wl - rna e l~ ~ e anJ{ ,l,--cor s same for lending instItutions notv as it. is for the banks .. Mr. Fink said that banks are the ones that won't do it and they say the reason is because of the way the law is written now.. 'I1hey say if we change the law as this bill does ~ they \\]"111 begin doing this. ':Phis is not mandatory .. oq - D~::.-1')'i'-'!'11"!~;lr"r ch<" rg-'::L0!I'''''':-ir E:~X'f-r:~r,','<-~ on, Mr~ li'ink (::~i d HB 98 J'.-' . ,-",-~ ..;, ...,J..''1.'oA,._.J.~ ...·.} __ ;.._ct. ,'..... ,,:.>! __,-\"1,,-,_ ,l _.,< vC.""",,)._•• ~.,... _ _',A >.",,-,,_' this bill is to cover the problem of late payments.. The Deliquency lendi.ng institutions give you. 15 days before they make a charges/ Loan Exten. late charge a8sessment.. Manytlmes the late payment is not the fault of the payee. This is due to many banks having the policy of taking care of v-r:Lndow payments and mail payments are processed as time allows. In Alaska we have the problem of slol'1 mail, too. In elther event the late charge is assessed. If you have a $300 house payment to make and it is not processed until after the l5-day period then you are assessed a $15 late charge. This can really add up. McVeigh asked if there was quite a bit of this going aD. Fink said that Mr. Hall said if we passed this bill, they 't'louldn r t change their bank policy but just extend the date which they begin assessing the late charge by ten days. Fink noted that most contracts accept the postmark or date of mailing as the date to figure from but the banks say it is to be figured from date of receipt. Banfield asked if anyone had tried to read some of the postmarks 1fle get on our mail here. Much of i.t is undeciph- erable. Judges/ HB 209 - Judges/Masters/Disqualifications. This law has HB 209 Masters/ been misused by some attorneys and it ha.s been interpreted Disqualifi- that you can have more than one disqualification. This cations bill limits the number of disqualifications and also it specifies when it can be done. McVeigh gave an example of this--the person was found guilty but before the judge' couldpronOtU1Ce the sentence disqualification \.vas used to get another trial.. Malone asked about the propriety of allowing an oral statement to ask for the disqualification. v He felt it should be in Nriting. IIcVeigh said this was used all the time. ~jhen you make a statement in court it is all put on record.. This is the normal alternative to affidavits. Hayden said you would file an affidavit if you have the five days' notice that you will be having a certain judge. If for some reason you do not get the notice, this is when you make the oral statement. Ordinarily you can make this knOVln -orior to the tri.al. Malone asked if it was clear that there~be no more than one challenge. Fiwc said that noV[ the la\'1 says the plaintiff, his attorney, defendant, and his attorney can make the challenge and if you have a lrultiple case there would be moreo This bill clarifies that point.. Fink said he had backup material from Judge Burke that he would provide for the committee.. They have covered the -1+1- ----------------------- Page 51----------------------- 2/16 Page L~ :Masters but Mr. Fink said he had no knowledge of any problem HB 209 ( in that area. McVeigh will carry this bill .. \.....--/ Underground HB 12 - Underground utilitieso Mr. Tillion said we had two HB 12 Utilities letters on this bill in the file. He rea.d these to the committee .. (Beirne arrived 4:25 p.m.) The Commerce Com- mittee cut the penalty clause down to one and one-half times instead of three times the damages. The chairman reviewed Commerce Committee amendments.. There '''las some discussion as to the reason for the civil penalty. It was felt this would discourage some contractors from going ahead and excavating vlithout getting a locate.. They would have to pay the utility one and one-half times the damage to the utility but besides that would have to anS\-J'er to the state for causing· the damage.. Just like a traffic ticket after an accident where you have injured someone or their property you are assessed a fine.. Orsini ask.ed if the state reimbursed the individual that had been without the utility.. Tillion said no, but this was to deter the individual from doing this. again. Malone asked about Page 2~ Line 26 vThere it mentions the requirement for a vertical locate not to exceed one foot. He felt that the horizontal locate should also not exceed one foot instead of two feet. As an engineer~ he didn't think one would be any easier than the other and if they did vary then it would not be the contractor's fault. He felt this would impel the utilities to be more careful when placing their lines to keep good records as to location. He said horizontal line measurements would be easier to locate _than vertical. Malone moved to change this on Line 26!) Page 2., to read "within 12 inches If ins tead of H24 It • There was no objection. Tillion read the letter from JoAnn Miller v'li th her suggested amendment. This was adopted by the com- mittee~ A copy of the letter is in the file. .To include those that are not public utilities ~'las up to ,the committee .. Tillion said that Kenai moves their products through their O\lJn lines. Malone 'said he didn't see the need for a civil penalty if this Has a prlvate company. Tillion noted that it was the inconvenience to the customer that we were con- cerned with. There was some discussion about the length of time that the utility company had to provide the l.ocate. It was felt that four hours was too short. (Beirne left a-t 5: 00 p. m. ) Malone said in ordinances they usually provide 24 hours. Tillion asked if \\]"e 'Nanted to. say IJreasoriable. time to cover these extenuating circumstances lt .. This is to cover rural areas .. Malone said that the contractor usually \va.i ts until the last· minute before he tells the utility. Malone moves to amend IfrOUr hours If to 1T16 regular \~orking hours If. That will give them two days to locate. There was no objection. So ordered. Tillion said this would be put out as a Committee Substitute .. :Malone will carry this bill. The CS Hill come back before the cormnittee for signatures. -42- ----------------------- Page 52----------------------- 2 16 1 / ! Page 5 / Meeting adj ourned En: 5: 10 p. m. ( ( -43- ----------------------- Page 53----------------------- 2/19 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE HI 1\JlJTES OF THE lyfEETING Monday, February 19, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:40 p.m .. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments.. Present were OrSini, Tillion, McVeigh, Malone, Chance, and Kaden .. Notice of Mr. Tillion asked the committee if they would like to intro- new regs. duce a bill 1-"ihich would require commissioners to give notice of regulations before they go into effect. This states what you will have to do before you can adopt a regulation in a department. McVeigh asked if this covered emergency regula- tions. Tillion said they would still have the right to issue HB 247 these.. The chairman said that he would like to introduce this bill and submit it with a committee report to be signed out today.. Malone moved to sign this bill out v.rith a liDo Pass" recommendation. Chance seconded his motion. (HB 247) 1 All present signed tr Do Pass". (Banfield arrived 3: 1-5 p.m.) Malone "'Tas assigned to HB 18 - Authorizing G.. 0.. Bonds so HB 18 he explained the CS as prepared by him and Hayden. He said G.O. Bonds there was substantial change from the original bill. Now in Section I the Lieutenant Governor will provide general information on major projects to be placed on the ballot so the voters can make their decisions. Section 2 adds an additional duty to the Legislative Budget and Audit Com- mittee. They I;'Jill have to approve or disapprove the trans- fer of funds ina particular bond issue. Now there is no answering to the-puhlicat any- time about the use of funds that were-voted in in bond issues. They even change the use to some things that are entirely ne~v projects. This gives a check on the executive branch vrhen the legislature is not in session. Malone did not feel that this tied the admin- istration's hands, but did give some measure of control. This way the people 1t'lould be able to knOv.T the reason for transfer of funds on projects. Section 3 says that the GO bond bill will show the scope of each project. Banfield said she was not prepared to give Budget and Audit Committee that kind of po\Ver. _ 'McVeigh said a review by this committee will not be able to halt projects. Tillion said it just lets the legislature know about it. There was some discussion relating to section 1 and section 3 having to say the same thing~ Malone said this bill only says they have to give out the information with the sample ballot and this infor- mation r;-Touldn f t appear on the ballot unless the legislature so directs. Chance asked if there '"Has any bond counsel in Juneau. She felt she needed someone kno\vledgeable to knO"'l what affect this would have on the state's bonding ability_ Tillion said we have specified these things before but they have been (, violated so he feels that a review by Budget and Audit would give some control to the legislature. Tillion said he had \~ talked l'vi ththe COrr'JTlissioner of Highways and this was all right illith him. ,He only said that he v1anted the bill to say that the money was for funding say two years of their five -44- ----------------------- Page 54----------------------- J 2/] 9 I Pa"ge 2 year program. Malone felt this power should be given to HB JB { the Budget and Audit Committee because they deal with \.. money matters.. Chance said she would rather see it placed G.O. Bonds under the Legislative Council. Tillion said he felt it fit better under B&A. He just thinks that the legislature should have th0ir say in these matters and it didn't really ma,tter VJhich corrLrnittee was delegat.;edto do this.. Chance said that B&A handles Title IV A funds so this should be in their line of business. Legislat~ve Council deals mainly w:i.th policy matters. McVeigh sa.id the review really didn ~ t:. m.ake tl1.at mu.ch difference in state business b~3CEtllSe t,11E: E~o\r(3~(~rlC)r~· t-) ·t:,LrrlE~ \"J.~,~Ll use ]s;<~ecu_:ti.·ve Orcler #20 and do whatever he vvants anyv-lay. He felt that it should be left in B&A. Banfield asl(ed Hayden l'Jhat his legal opinion was on "approval and disapprovE!;.::l. n" She noted th:Ls is a pO~\Ter that they have never had granted to them before. Hayden didn f t kn01A{ \\}'hat affect this would have but that the bond bill would have to be followed. There Vlould be specific language as to how the bond monies would be spent. Tillion said that we had HB 18 taken off the floor because hight~Tays could not live with it and now we have prepared this and they say this 1:fi11 be all right. This doesn t t give aitlay all the authority of the legislature. Banf'ield asked what you could do if there wasn't enough money to complete a project. Malone said if you / had three projects then you would drop one of the other two. \ This is when you would transfer money from one project to another but this would not allow to substitute an entirely new project. Chance asked if this had been submitted to bond counsel for comments. r1'i1110n said this had not been done. Malone moved to adopt CSHB 18; there 1-1aS no objection. Orsini moved the CS out of committee. No objection. The bill was Signed out "Do Passu except for Chance and Banfield who signed !!No Recommendation lf • HB 12 - Underground Util~ties. This bill has been discussed HB 12 previously but the committee \lJanted to see the CS before it Underground was signed out 0 Chance asked for a.n explana,tion on Page 2 Utilities about the damages. Tillion said this would be actual dam- ages but you could then sue further for interruption of ser- vice, etc. They couldn't claim loss of revenue say for loss of telephone service but only for the inconvenience involved. Chance said this referr~d back to 610 and there was no plan to have to sho~'J neglect. There VIas some discussion on \'ihy the civil penalty was in this bill. Tillion said it was to discourage indiscriminate disruption of lines by some con- tractors. Orsini moved to accept the CS. HcVeigh seconded. There \iv-as no obj ection. Malone moves the CS out wi th a nDo Pass'l recormnendation a.nd· asl\:s unanimous consent.. Chance' objected but will vote "No recommendation tl • HB 148 - Candidates Qualifications. A CS has been prepared for this bill and Mrs. Banfield said this was itTorked over Qualification'with [vIr. Ray Preston from the J\G f s Office. She explained of Candidates -45- ----------------------- Page 55----------------------- 2/19 Page 3 HE 148, ( the changes made in comparison with the original bill. The letter from the AG's office will serve as backup material for this CS. There was some discussion on (11). McVeigh didn't want a congressional candidate also running for a Qualifica- state office. This brought a legal question into his mind tions of on whether or not deletion of that set a condition upon Candidates \v-hich one will run for federal office. By deleting that language it could be interpreted that if they want to run for a federal office they can't run for a state office. Tillion said this vv-as upheld by the Supreme Court. in New Mexico. The law said they couldn't run for state office at the same time. Malone questioned the use of tlmayrf on page 3, line 21. Hayden said this is a mandatory negative .. Chance said" that may was permissive but here it said may not which is a mandatory negative. Orsini noted that if the person is upheld in court his name will then go on the ballot. Banfield moved to adopt the CS. There was no objection. Ban- field moved the CS out \:vith a Tl Do Pass If recommendation. McVei H seconded her motion. Malone signed uNo recornmendation • HB-209 Disqualification· of Judges· and Masters. Tillion Disqual. said there wasn ft much objection to this bill but \~e wanted HB 20:·, Judges to have the back-up material. McVeigh has that material now. McVeigh will carry this bill on the floor. It was signed out liDo Passt! by everyone except Malone and Chance ( who signed "No recommendation". McVeigh moved to adjourn at 4:50 p.m. -46- ----------------------- Page 56----------------------- IvlIHUTE3 OF irHE IvlEE'rING rruesday., February 20, 1973 ( \ Chairman '1'111ion called the meeting to order in Room 104 1 of the Assembly Apartments at 3: +0 p.m.. Present viere Orsini., McVe:Lgh, Banfield., TillioTl, Chance., and Kaden. Limited HE 71 - Appropriation for the Limited Entry Commission. T111:i.on said this really v-rasn f t a Jnatter for ns. Anchorage has glacial materials and the problem of thin soil. Southeastern Alaska has different problems. There are varying conditions in soil here. Barrow is the worst area of the state because of permafrost condi- tions. They also have long, cold winters which make the operation of septic tanks unworkablp. He said septic tanks ilJorked well before the advent of automatic washing machines. Also before diSinfectants, detergents, and soaps that deter action in the septic tank. The public health needs to be protected and we have reached the limit. Dr. Brewer showed some photographs on conditions in the area and in the state. Banfield asked Dr. Brewer to explain his letter he sent to the committee. He said it explained the section that 1Hill be changed will be in effect a grandfather right for people who have already purchased lots. This will allow them to build single dwellings or cabins on these lots even if they are under 40,000 square feet. Anyone owning or buying a lot before February 5, 1973, would be able to build. We know this is going to add some poll\ltion but this seems to be the only way to handle the situation. Many of the lots are rather scattered. This will stop developers from using these lots. He also said this vvould not prohibit the development of under- sized lots on the great number of tracts that have been paper platted in the past six months to a year. Much of the paper platting occured because people became aware of the problem. He gave the dates of when certain boroughs adopted their regu- lations in this regard. In most areas the regulatiom are either being adopted or are coming into effect. He said there are no regulations by the state for the unorganized area of the state on pollution and septic tanks. He said prior to the formation of the Department of Environment the H&W Department had the regulations but not the responsibility to enforce them. The new department had the responsibility of enforcement but had no regulations. That is why these were prepared. -54- ----------------------- Page 64----------------------- 2/23 Page 2 The emergency vIill be in effect for 120 days unless the ( proposed regulations are adopted prior to that date. •HC 4 Hearings will be held in March throughout the state. Annul. The final regulations are scheduled to be put into Reg. effect April 1. Orsini asked the Conrnissioner what would Environ. happen if the resolution would go through. He said it meant you could sell small lots and build houses, duplexes, or whatever on them. Mr. Freeman, Representative from Ketchikan, testified in favor of this resolution. He said the changes proposed by Dr. Brewe. would not help his people in Ketchikan. There is very little land available in that area, especially between the water and the mountains. HB-182 - Live snakes. McVeigh would like to consider this HB 182 Live bill before he has to leave. He moved to adopt an amendment Snakes to this bill. It added Hpoisonous!l between tllive H and usnake tr in the various locations in the bill. McVeigh said this bill requires people vIho have imported or keep these snakes to have a permit. This would not affect the snakes kept in class room . There was no objection to this amendment. McVeigh moved the bill out llDo Pass lf The bill was signed out unanimously tf Do Pass!! . We returned to Mr. Freeman's testimony. Mr. Freeman said the approach by Dr. Brewer was his philosophy. It is not necessarily the intent of the Constitution. That intent is to have a maximum amount of local government with a minimum HCR 54 Annul. amount of governmental units. Alaska has charged the local Reg. communities with the responsibility and are given the platting Environ. planning, and zonin~. The community of Ketchikan has done that and ._ he preeided for t·lHO years .They have a model zoning act. The topography and geography of Ketchikan is such that we have a road running along the beach and for the most part the residences are one lot deep for 25 miles. There is no way they can find enough money to put in a complete itIater . and sewer system. D~ Brewer by putting out these emergency regulations has ~topped construction in the district. He said he didn't feel anyone could choose a lot size that would fit all of Alaska. Since these problems have been developing over a long period of time, he did not feel that now it should be an emergency in which emergency regulations should be adopted. The state of Alaska has even auctioned off land that does not meet these specifications. Hearings should have been held before the regulations were adopted. The only solution seems to be to annul the regulations. The next vri tness 'Has Billy Berrier, Juneau City and Borough Attorney. He said that platting had been delegated to the communities 'and then you have the statute that says you would adopt rules and regulations relevant to the point at issue. Then it goes on to say how to apply this to political subdivision. It says they will be subject to the local regu- lations adopted under this chapter. -55- ----------------------- Page 65----------------------- 2/23 Page 3 / Mr. Berrier also said there was some argument as to vThether \ this relates to health pO\'-lers. Their main objection to these HeR 54 "~ regulations is that communities have the right and duty to Annul perform platting and planning for their area. Mr. Berrier Reg. said there was also another problem with city planning. ~vhen you leave the main developed areas the lots tend to Environ~ get bigger and when the city expands you have a problem with the orderly development. After a number of years the city expands and you develop to the point of putt~ng in water and sewer. These big lots then become a problem. It is either tco expensive for one party to cover all of these costs or they subdivide in an erratic manner. Platting was left as a local government tool. It can handle the unique problems better. He stated that the subdivision ordinance took about three years to prepare and felt this regulation by the Department of Environment was done in an unsophisticat d manner. This may give a short term solution to one problem but does not take into account the accompanying problems. Banfield asked Mr. Berrier if he would recommend that we pass this resolution. He said he wasn't sure what effect it would have and felt that since this first one was temporary that should be taken into consideration. He thought that the part that had created SUbstantial comment should-probably be repealed but thought there was a great deal of merit to the remainder of the regulation. Banfield asked Hayden if you could do that. He said he didn't think you could repeal ( a portion of a regulation. Banfield didn t t think it \'lould r ,,,-,,' do much good to annul the regulation because the permanent regulations will be put into effect on April 1. She said we could not put it out today since we had lost our quorum. (McVeigh left at 4:30 after signing out HB 182) , Mr. Urion asked Mr. Brewer why he didntt take action on some of the people who were violating the laws. He said because the municipalities are the biggest violators which makes it difficult for him to go out and arrest someone for an illegal act unless he goes to them and requests'some change and they refuse. It becomes a real question of morality. Dr. Brewer said the state has several different,standards and we should only have one. For example, we have the'one about pol- ution of water by oil. Our state ferries -have no place to dum, their bilges, so they dump them in the water. Coast Guard vessels do the same. How can someone go out and arrest a private citizen for depositing oil through the sewers. That is where about three-fourths of it comes from. Mr. Urion said' he recognized that very few cities in the U.S. met federal water control standards. Banfield said there might be some problem of allowing the grandfather rights because some people would be allowed to build and others would not. Dr. Brewer said his intent was not to close Alaska down, but to try and put a stop to pollution some where. \'-'; Meeting adjourned at 5:00 p.m. -56- ----------------------- Page 66----------------------- 2/26 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMlvlI'l'TEE MINUTES OF 'l'HE IvIEETING Monday, February 26, 1973 ( Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:35 p.m. in Room lOl~ of the Assembly Apartments. Present v,;ere Chance, Tillion, and McVeigh. The first item for discussion was Senate Bill 2 - Filing Filing consolidated corporation income tax returns. The chairman SB 2 Consolid. opened the meeting for discussion since there werenft enough Income Tax members present for a quorum. He said this was passed last Returns year but ifJaS vetoed by the Governor. The Governor r s message on t11is said that the commissioner had no powers to require such filing. This bill was prepared in Havelock's office and this covers the language that the Governor opposed last year. ,A lot of affilia ted, corpora tions separate into differ- ent categories and buy that particular kind of license. This \;vould make them consolidate. McVeigh said this is an advantag to be able to file one tax return. Chance ask.ed vrhat monies the state would lose under this law. McVeigh said it would be very little because they w~uld pick it up on the corporate tax. m,lillion said this would conform With, federal I,aw. Chanc~ again asked if this would bring in less tax monies to the stat . McVeigh said this wC)uld be true in some cases. You pay a per cent up to a point of your gross, say ~p50,OOO on vlhich you would pay 2 per cent and for everything over that amount you 1i~rould pay 1/2 per cent. (Banfield arrived at 3:42 p.m.) Tillion brought Mrs. Banfield up to date on what was under discussion. Banfield moved SB-2 out 1'Jith a n Do Pass It recommendation. Ther VJas no objection. So ordered. It i:las signed out unanimously !fDo Pass lf • . HeR-54 - Annulling certain administrative regulations of the Annul Department of Environment. Banfield reported on the testimony HeR 5': Reg. taken at the last meeting. She didn't know what kind of decis'on Environ. should be made. Tillion said he understood that the commissio er would withdraw the regulations but now it seems he isnft going to do that. Banfield sa.id VIe couldn t t have those big lots 1j~he sewer and water would be put in because nobody could pay the assessments. Tillion said he had no objection to these regu- lations outside municipalities but feels this should not apply where there is zoning and planning. McVeigh wanted to kno'l-J if passing this resolution would take away the basis for the scheduled hearings on this subject. It vias determined that it would not. Tillion suggested a letter to show that the legis- lature recognizes his problems and this is a valid problem throughout t11e state but we feel that tIle municipalities that now are exercising zoning and planning should be left to do so. If anything is unhealthy or unsafe the commissioner has the power to shut the jobs down on an individual basis. Banfield moves the resolution out 'wi th a unanimous liDo Pass If recommenda tton. There was no objection. -57- ----------------------- Page 67----------------------- 2/26 Page 2 '" HB 93 - Interest computation - 365-day. There was a legal ( problem with this bill. Hayden said that the Small Loan HB 93 ~/, Act provides that they can compute interest on a 360-day Interest. year. Tillion said we should repeal that. Hayden felt Computatlon that it would be beneficial to have Mr. McMurray come back. He suggested that we make an exception for that. Banfield suggested that we schedule this for Wednesday and invite him over. McVeigh said if vlfe wanted to make it ' apply to all institutions that it was only a drafting prob- lem. Hayden said this could all be made part of the committee substitute.', It was decided that it was not necessary for Mr. McMurray to take part in the preparation. HB 154 - Revocation/Driver's licenses. McVeigh said he did Revocation not approve of the principle of this bill. He felt the judges HB 154 Driverts as professional people can already do this and he did not Licenses want to take away their discretion in handling these things. Tillion noted that this was only mandatory after the second time. This would have to be after conviction. The real serious part of this bill is the last portion dealing wit~ driving with a suspended license. Banfield objected to mandatory sentencing. Tillion felt that it is no longer to be left to the courts because of the many deaths and injuries that occur on our highways due to drunk drivers. He has to be convicted of being under the influence. McVeigh said that was a point, too, because the person did not even have to be ( drunk. (Malone a rrived at 4: 00 p. m. ) Banfield felt tha t we ! ~/ had competent judges who could handle this. Malone asked about the problem of drugs. HO"'T it could be determined if a person was under the influence of drugs, has been a problem in the past. Tillion said there would be a lot of this that you couldn't prove. They would still have to be convicted by a jury before you could revoke the license. There is only a one-day mandatory jail sentence and this is mainly for embar- rassing the person. Tillion told about the condition in his district where a fellow has been convicted four or five times but he still drives even if his license is suspended., McVeigh said he didn't object to that part of the bill. Tillion didn' think it was necessary to have testimony, on .this bill because j_t had received such enthusiastic support in the Commerce Com- mittee. (Beirne arrived at L~:o6 p.m.) McVeigh asked about (5) and Tillion said no second offense was necessary in this part, you just lost your license for 30 days. Banfield said there was no test required or means to tell if a person was under the influence of alcohol or drugs., Tillion said if we wanted we could put in a .08 reading on the breathalizer. ' Beirne thinks we should tie it to some test or rating. Rep. Meekins commented on thi. s bill. He sa 1d he had given thi subject a lot of thought. He said one individual may not be affected by one drink but even with one glass of beer your reaction time is reduced. The point of this bill is to make it known to everyone that they are going to have to change their social customs. If the bill is too weak you won't be able to change the customs. People have to be put on notice -58- ----------------------- Page 68----------------------- Page 3 that they have to chan~e thetr life pattern. McVeigh read HB154 from the statutes at 28.15.210 and 220. What we are saying by this bill is that we are now going to take the place of Revocation the judge and take away discretion. He has these rights to Driverts revoke at present. He felt that trying t~ change a cultural Licenses pattern through a system of mandatory sentencing is bad legis- lation. Malone said he could see real problems in trying to do this but felt we needed to do something to get the drunk I drivers off the road. It'is true, you cannot legislate common l sense. McVeigh said you were putting in a severe penalty for ! not driving while drunk but for driving while under the influ- I ence. There is a vast difference. He said he didn t t v·;rant to divest the judge of his discretion and when you don't allow a limi ted license to people v7ho make their living by driving or need to drive to get to work. You are in effect putting these people out of business. Beirne asked "'Ihat "~Jould be the differenc e now -' or who makes the determina tion no\.~. Tillion said the judges can suspend or make it less or give out an interim license. Malone asked McVeigh \Alhere it men- tioned the court shall revoke the license if this was binding upon the court. He said it was. - Generally, a driver's license is a privilege rather than a ri~ t. The person operating a motor vehicle can do serious harm to the public. Beirne said she could see a law like this being a pOint' of harassment. McVeigh said if the cOlTuni ttee thought this was going to solve the highway problem they vverefooling themselves. Malone moved to report the bill out of COri'Jnittee. Chance brought up the point system and felt that we should consider both measure at the same time in order to have a comprehensive program. Under the, point system drunk drivers will get six pOints assessed against them. Why not have it amount to 12 points and then you could take their license under that bill. Tillion said the concept of the two bills was different; one was administrative revocation and the other judicial. Meekins said the point system was to be used to spot hazardous drivers. He said they gave six points for drunk driving because this made it uniform 1;.[ith the other areas throughout the United States. Action.was taken on l"lalone Y s motion to move the bi.I1 out of committee. Four si.gned fiNo recornrnendation II and Tillion and Malone signed tlDo Pass". Malicious HB 262 - Malicious Mischief. Hayden read from the statutes HB 262 lvlischief Sho-;:ling 'wha t this addi tioD 'would do. Malone asked if it already wasn't an offense to steal Signs, etc. Tillion said it was but this puts it under malicious mischief. McVeig said the main problem wi.th this type of thing is the policing. Banfield moved to put this bill out wi th a !fDa Pass II recom- mendation and asked unanimous consent. There was no objection. It was sIgned out unanimously !l Do Pass!!. Malone moved to adjourn at 5:00 p.m. -59- ----------------------- Page 69----------------------- 2/27 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Tuesday, February 27, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:40 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Banfield, Chance, Orsini, Malone, Tillion, McVeigh and Kaden. Mr. Ose has asked Judge Moody to testify in behalf of HB-I05 HB lO: Mandatory Mandatory Sentences/Felony ~ and other bills that he has in Sentencing this cQmmittee. We haven't received any except HE 105 but Felony testimony \'1ill be taken on the other bills, too. Judge Moody started out by saying that most judges, generally speaking, are against mandatory sentencing. It is an all encompassing thing and it sometimes catches the people that should not be in it. There are situations where there should b serious consideration given as a matter of course. He said he ' hadn't checked to see how this would tie in with other provisio s of the law. He referred to the section of the law where it states a minimum and maximum sentence procedure. The judge can withhold sentence and give less than the amount. In one sense, 80 per cent of our laws technically require mandatory sentencing. Many judges give less than the minimum in the sense that they recommend probation. The general public, though, thinks that a minimum or maximum sentence means to l , be locked up in jail for that period of time. Probation and (~ parole is granted in 90 per cent of the cases. He mentioned on problem with the part that said you would get an increa~ed sen- tence if convicted on more than one felony. He gave the"exampl of one crime including three felonies. Would this be taken int account or would it have to be separate incidents? This does pose a question. The purpose should be to take care of the person who shows he or she is leading a cri.minal life and not a one-time' offender. The judge asked if this was aimed at the drug addict. Mr. Ose said the reason for the bill was the grea' number of felonies that are committed by second offenders., It was made clear then that the purpose "'las 'to ,differentiate betwe' n an occasional criminal and one who makes his living by this mea s .. He said the real problem was one of philosophy and the legis- lature would ,have to decide on that. He 'recognizes that there is this problem of people coming back time and time again. Sometimes the court gets blamed for these people being turned free again, but after 60 days the court no longer has juris- . diction unless it is brought to their attention. Probation and parole people are not under the control of the courts. You shouldn't work at this strictly from the standpoint of convic- tion but what are you doing about rehabilitation. We need to do something so after the man is turned loose he isn't going to go right back into crime again. The state at present does not have either the medical or social people available nor the money that it takes to carry out a program such as this. -60- ----------------------- Page 70----------------------- j ~ 2/27 j Page 2 I The judge explained about minimum and maximum sentences. He I / said a person would think that in a sentence that says not IHI )5 i \ less than one year nor more than ten that the person would have to be confined for that period of time. This sounds all right, but we have a statute that says upon conviction the I Mandatory judge can defer the sentence. This means he will not be Sentencing sentenced now but may defer the sentence for say up to five I Felony years and you place the person on probation on the following I conditions. Sixty days after the person goes to the probation I department the judge cannot change his sentence.. They can therl supervise the person or they dontt; they may report or they I may not. Tillion asked v.Jhy probation vIas under social services. McVeigh said there was a bill in to study the consequences of t putting this under the courts. Judge Moody said there was I another thing about the deferred sentence. If the person has I follo~ed all the conditions of the deferred sentence, then I he will be given a clean record. This is used particularly I for first offenders. He said this is one of the best programs but unless itts supervised--checking to see if conditions are met--it does not work properly. The judge said they could also use these plans in combination. They could require that some of the sentence time be served and then a portion for probation. He said they could also make them pay for damages or give restitution. This has been very successful. (Banfielq. left 4:00 p.m.) The judge said they also had a work lease pro~ gram and they do this prior to conviction so the person can I support his family while awaiting trial. He said Corrections I likes to handle this themselves and they want to evaluate the . person. This creates problems because it takes sometimes 90 days to evaluate a person and they won't let him keep his job in the interim. If the work lease is going to be effective, you have to let the person continue his work~ McVeigh noted that a lot of people get into trouble because of their economi condition and causing them to lose their job "t'1ould only make I matters iAJorse. The judge suggested that you draft some form I of legislation that would say if a person wi thin rtxlf number I' of years after he gets off parole or probation or finishes serving his sentence would be included in the mandatory ! sentencing. Only the habitual offender would be caught in I this. It also has to include the person i.~lho commits another ! felony while he is on parole or probation. McVeigh thought I' it could'be a simple statute saying anyone i..'lho has been con- . victed of a felony and has been sentenced if he should cOTIlmit a crime involving moral turpitude. You vlouldntt \vant it to apply to a technical crime--something like failure to file an income tax return, etc. Then you would say that upon a second conviction cOl11.l!litted while on probation or within a certain period of time shall receive a mandatory sentence for this crime without probation, parole, or deferred sen- tence. The judge said you should be careful in drafting this and maybe you should say cow~~itted or convicted, then you would be sure to get the person making his living off crime. Tillion asked the judge how many years should this be. He said one year would be too short and that five years should be pretty good. McVeigh said this would be prepared by Hayden and a copy would be sent to the judge for his comments. He I would then return it to the committee for consideration. -61- ----------------------- Page 71----------------------- 2/27 Page 3 HB 211 - Possession of drugs. This bill is not in committee · HB 211 but the committee will hear testimony from the judge on this bill and some others introduced by Mr. Ose~ Orsini said this puts possession of drugs while on school grounds the Possession same as selling it. Tillion said this was coming close to of drugs the Japanese system ~vhere they make no distinction between the pusher and the user. Judge Moody said the user will eventually become a pusher if he continues the habit. Tillion said it had a 19-year-old age in the bill and there are few students that are that age and still in high school. ,Tillion asked him if there was any merit to this measure. The judge said it really didn't matter what he thought~the laws are' what the people say and so they just change the law to fit. If you put in mandatory sentencing it is conceivable that there wontt be as many conviction, as an example. The same way with possession of drugs. If the people want drugs, they will make laws so they can have them. Tillion said this bill was aimed at the older boyfriend'and the school teacher. Judge Moody said he saw nothing wrong with this bill. Ose said that the problem that he was trying to correct was an actual problem in the schools. He told of a girl who, was in API now because of taking drugs while in school. Some- one had slipped some to her in some food. He said outsiders come in and drop off the drugs and say they are not selling it. McVeigh said there is some obligation to protect one from oneself and it seems that is what we have to do today. ~/ The young people don't think they are hurting anyone but \. themselves 't'lhen they indulge in alcohol, drugs, etc. ,They many times have emotional problems. Judge Moody said this was because the parents have abdicated'their job. Ose said the kids say we won't do anything to them anyway, so they just go ahead and do their "thingll • The judge felt we should get tough with the kids and not let them think we will be so eas1:~hem the first time they are caught. , Releasing HB 89 - Releasing name of minor. Mr. Ose said he wanted to name of know who the children were in his, neighborhood that were HB 89 minor getting into trouble so he could stop association between them and his children. This bill says they will release the name of a minor when he has committed a felony a.nd be treated just as if he was an adult. Judge Moody thinks you should reveal the names except in special circumstances. He thinks you should leave an out. You could do this by saying you would release the name for the second offense. This would take care of the exceptional case where you wouldnft want the name released. Tillion said that Fairbanks and Petersburg release names. Judge Moody said releasing the name may do some good and spur the parents to take better care of their children, but he warned against giving undue publicity because this makes a hero out of the offender. He· suggested not allowing their picture in the paper. 'i-' \ Mr. Ose said his main concern \vas that for a major offense no names are given out and even fellow students do not know' who has done these things. The judge said he agreed \1f1 th Mr. Ose and would give out the name on the first offense -62- ----------------------- Page 72----------------------- 2/27 Page 4 allowing the judge to have discretion but making it mandatory JIB to release names for the second offense. McVeigh said that I ~, as a parent he iNanted to knot'" if a child was having trouble in the courts first of all for his own child's sake and Releasing secondly so that he could put pressure on the parents of I names of the child named so they will feel the public pressure and minors the embarrassment. Mr. Tillion asked the judge to comment on suspension of driver's licenses and the point system. Judge Moody said these problems are serious and we would have to take drastic action to get results. If you take a license away .and it I is a man's livelihood, then you have more problems. He said we would not be able to enforce this because the American I public won't go for the changes necessary. (Banfield returned at 4:35 p.m.) HB 104 - Sale of drugs/penalty for. OrSini felt iNe should Sale of have a minimum sentence for narcotics. f.-lcVeigh said this HB 104 drugs wouldn't do it because it is not mandatory. You ~lould have to have legislative language saying that there is no probation or parole, etc. Judge Moody suggested saying that any other provision of law be excluded under these circumstances and you would not allow probation, parole, or deferred sentence. That concluded the testimony by the judge. HCR 27 - High seas net fishing. Tillion said this was a resolution by McGill to ask that the U. s. government try T. i and stop net fishing on the high seas. McVeigh moved ~nd High seas asked unanimous consent to pass this resolution out with net fishing a Do Pass recommendation. There was no objection. All presen signed Do Pass. HB 215 - Flammable fabrics. Tillion said that other states Fla.mmable have been banning these materials and Alaska seems to be HB 21: Fa.brics the dumping grounds for them. McVeigh told of a personal experience he had I,vith this type of rna terial. McVeigh moved the bill out with a tl Do Passu recommendation and asked unan- imous consent. There was no objection. HB 212 - Private and contract carriers. Tillion said that Private it has been found that many people are in violation of the tHB 212 and contract Alaska Carriers Act. It might be people who sell and install carriers appliances or something like that. This bill makes an exemp- tion for them by amending present f~~',).The carriers are in favor of this bill. Tillion will carry this bill on the floor. McVeigh moved the bill out and asked unanimous consent. There \Vas no objection. All Signed ffDo Pass". Interest CSHB 93 - 365-day year/interest. McVeigh suggests that we Computation send a copy of the CS to Mr. Fink to see if he agrees \Vith HB 93 this. HB 268 - Tax bonds/Nonresident taxpayers. Tillion read the HB 26e Tax Bonds Governor's cover letter. After brief discussion, McVeigh Nonresidents -63- ----------------------- Page 73----------------------- 2/27 Page 5 moved and asked unanimous consent to pass this bill out "Do Pass". There was no objection. Joe Orsini signed uno recom- menda tion" . Meeting adjourned at 5:07 p.m. -64- ----------------------- Page 74----------------------- I 2/28 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Wednesday, February 28, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:40 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Banfield, McVeigh, Orsini, and Kaden. No-Fault This meeting was devoted to discussion of CSRB 187 - No-Fault IHB 187 Insurance Insurance. Banfield asked if we had copies of Mr. Randolph's summary of the changes made by the Commerce Committee. Copies were made for committee members. Mr. Dan Hickey, Assistant I Attorney General, drafted original HB 187 and was here to l testify in favor of his bill. He had some prepared comments r but they applied only to the original bill and not the com- mittee substitute. He said the CS was nearly the same but he had some problems with the changes made. The first was the way in which noneconomic determinations on pain and suffering has been handled. Types of injuries are limited, there were more in the original bill. He said there was a reduction in total first-party benefits. It stayed the same on $1,500 for funeral expenses and $250 per week work loss. Original bill had $87,500 total first-party benefits; this CS has $15,000. The problem with this is that it does not ~dress itself to the major reason for a no-fault bill. The lower limit does take care of the huge quantity of cases, but these are being taken care of now. The third point was property damage. Original bill sho1'Ted tha t liability ~]as ( abolished as to damage to the vehicles but preserved as to \ all other property_ The change was that liability is now for all property including vehicles. He said the problem is tha.t the present system in terms of premiums is inequit- able. By including them in no-fault your premium for collisiob would be more attuned to the type of vehicle you drive. The second problem is that many people with small injuries are overcompensated. Other than that the administration feels the changes made are acceptable. McVelgh asked Mr. Hickey to prepare a statement of the things he had just stated. He said it was hard to judge the differences unless he had it in writing. Mr. Hickey will prepare such a statement for all committee members. Banfield'asked how this compared with Oregon's no-fault plan. He said Oregon had a pseudo-no-faul t system. He said Randolph proposed an amendment to this bill that would do the same as the Oregon law. He would have preserved liability once medica exceeds $2,000. You \'lould have compulsory liability with mandatory, first-party insurance. Banfield said this '\t'1as manda tory first-party. Dan said it '\-'las both mandatory first- party and third-party coverage. The liability limits were raised to $15,000 per person each accident. Orsini asked if this. bill would require that all people have insura.nce. Mr. Hickey said all O\f.TnerS are required to provide security for the operation and use of their motor vehicle. -65- ----------------------- Page 75----------------------- 2/28 Page 2 This can be done by self-insurance. In the case of the state, you can file a certificate of obligation. He HB 187 then asked if this would include a man operating a snow- mobile. He didn't think so according to the definitions No-Fault on Page 43, Paragraph 10. Orsini wanted to know if it Insurance would include off-road construction equipment. Dan said he didn t t think they \"lould be included. McVeigh said we should look at the definition under 28.10 which requires a motor vehicle to be registered. This could include snow- mobiles because they have to be registered. It could_even I include a motor bike. Dan said there was a problem, with this. It is logical to believe that under this kind of system prem- iums for motor cycles will raise. There is an optional pro- vision for them and this would make for a premium saving. Orsini asked how a state could force insurance companies to further define their categories--such as age brackets for motor cyclists. The ones having accidents are the same as those for driving cars and there is an age bracket for them. An older driver is usually a safer driver. Dan said these fall within the jurisdiction,of the companies. (Malone arrived 4:00 p.m.) Mr. Fred Eastaugh, representing the American Insurance , Association, testified in favor of what he called pure no- ' fault. He felt that HB 187 was reduced in its impact by what the Commerce Committee felt was a practical bill that t",-,: would pass the senate. .Randolph had one point--once entry \ was into the tort system by going over the medical thresh- hold or into serious permanent injury then there would be subrogation back to the dollar one. This was rejected by other members of the committee. McVeigh said it was usual to have damages for automobiles_. Mr. Eastaugh said there was mandatory property damage. He said UMVARA put in the sug- gestions by Bush and Keeton and inserted the deductibles. This vIas a big thing. They were interested in cost and this would lower it. They could get relief from the high deduct- ible. Mr. Hickey said he provided for three types of cover- age in original HE 187. One was full coverage at $100 deduct- ible, secohd was collision coverage in a single car accident-- when you were responsible and the only car involved, and the third was a multiple vehicle accident. That was taken out in Commerce Committee. Allan Engstrom';. commented that he felt it \vas ~~ir to say that of the 12 bills in various statesl on no-faultl"',Oao not include property damage coverage. Mr. Hickey said this was true but these bills for the most part are not true no-fault. (Chance arrived at 4:10 p.m.) Orsini asked which insurance would take precedence--health or no-fault. Dan said this bill makes automobile coverage primary except as to workmen's compensation and social secur;... ity. -66- ----------------------- Page 76----------------------- Page 3 I Mr. Hickey handed out copies of his prepared statement given i before the Commerce Committee. This 'vIil1 be different I HB ...L8'?, from the statement he will prepare for CSHB 187. !,' i l McVeigh said there was a feeling that pure no-fault is :No-Fault the only thing. Anything belo'tev that is undesirable. Per- Insurance sonally he does not think that pure no-fault is desirable. He thinks we should use a different name to describe the concept. He said his motives were directed primarily to the consuming public. The possibility that rates may go do'wn or at least level off is what they are concerned with. You could elimate many of the nuisance things with less than a pure no-fault bill. He is against eliminating the tort sys- tem entirely. Banfield said she attended a hearing last sum- mer and Mr. Wilson advocated strict no-fault. He told those present that sooner or later the various insurance companies have to get together and decide 1~ho is at fault, so you have not removed the assigning of fault from the system. When fault was finally assigned you were going to have your prem- iums increased because you were involved in an accident. She could not agree with the no-fault approach if they were still going to be assigning fault, but the person involved would not be able to have his attorney there. Tillion said the trouble with the present system is that 'tAlhen you get hit by somebody and they don't have insurance you don't get any- I thing. McVeigh said what 'rillion wanted was compulsory insur- ance. Chance said that can't be enforced. McVeigh said he l favored compulsory insurance but did not favor no-fault insur-l ance. Tillion felt the bill Vlas a compromise b ett'le en the two I ideas. . Mr. Hickey said this CS would not meet the specifications as outlined in U.S. Senate Bill No. 345 by Hart-Magnusson. They are going to legislate ~1hat no-fault is and that was why HB 187 was drafted so that it could meet these requirements. Chance asked if this had anything on comparative negligence. I Dan said it did not. Mr. Van Dort corn"-'rllented that with col- 1 lision in.surance the companies get together and they a.rbitrate· cases on the basis of fault. He represents the American Mutua Insurance Alliance. He said no-fault would not change the insurance companies' usual business practices. Mr. Van Dort said that the bill does not provide a v-lay to shift the money back to the person causing the accident. Everyone has to pay for his accident. Tillion said the main thing was that the person tha t is sma shed up is ha.ving his bills paid right nOit'l. If it's a real serious accident, then you ca.n go back to that person after you have reached the limits. Chance said that under present law there is a requirement that your insurance company has to offer uninsured motorists f coverage. If you don't Hant it you don't have to take it, but you can buy it .. This \'lay a person knovv-s v·lha t coverage he is getting and lv-hat he is paying for the benefits. -67- ----------------------- Page 77----------------------- 2/28 Page 4 Mr. Hickey sa.id that 20 per cent of the premium dollar goes to personal injuries. Tillion said this means that the HB 187 injured person is receiving that much more money. If that wasn't true we would stay under the present system. McVeigh- asked if the insurance companies didn't feel that with a No-Fault modified no-fault they would be paying the same and with Insurance pure no-fault there would be a saving because they would be paying less so they could give a reduction in insurance rates. Mr. Van Dort said no one really knew the cost, so there was no sure answer to this. The claims information from other. states is not applicable to Alaska. Eastaugh said that statistics can be approached from a lot of different ways so they say different things to different people. McVeigh asked Jan about his proposal to allow some procedure for an adjustment for those with poor driving records or those will good records. He said he felt some prOVision should be made. There should be some device in the bill that would guarantee that the cost of automobile accidents is going to be paid for by the bad driver by increased insurance premiums. Dan said there were other factors to consider besides your driving habits. He said that under no-fault they viill also have to consider what kind of a victi you will be--in which economic bracket, etc. This will have a bearing if you are injured and accrue work loss and medical which may take you over the limit. Malone said he didn't have any statistics, but the reckless driver will somehow affect the premiums under the no-fault system. Dan said it would under the overall premiums. Mr. Eastaugh provided' copies of an analysis by Professor Keats. Malone asked how no-fault would affect small insurance com- panies. He could see where a large company would have a tremendous advantage over a small company. Jan said that except for the large companies, they get together for making or setting their rates. They combine their claim experience. Most anti-trust laws exempt insurance companies because they are so regulated under insurance codes. Eastaugh noted that the Uniform Act is followe.d by notes and comments and thought this might help the committee .. It is similar to the governor's bill but not like the CS. He gave out packets of information. Mr. Hickey felt this was a good text. This hearing will continue at 3:30 p.m. tomorrow. Meeting adjourned at 5:15 p.m. -68- ----------------------- Page 78----------------------- 3/1 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE ~ffiETING Thursday, March 1, 1973 Chairman Tilli.on called the meeting to order at 3:46 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Chance, l'1cVeigh, Malone, and Russ Mulder. I Mandatory McVeigh commented on the CS for HB 105 - Mandatory sentences/ IRB 105 Sentencing felony. He felt this was acceptable and wanted a copy sent Felony to Judge Moody today with a transmittal letter. As soon as I co~ments are received from the judge, we will complete action I on this measure. i I Burial of Tillion said we had received SB-73am - Burial of body - and I a body wanted to complete action on this today. McVeigh said it l\ SB 73 1Alould be all right if we made an amendment saying that the n am ashes vlould be decently buried. The amendment was on Page 1, n Line 14.. It deleted the ". It and added "and the remains II decently interred. IT Chance then moved the bill out as amendedl! and asked unanimous consent. It was Signed out unanimously !! "Do Pas s II • Ii ., If No-Fault The committee will continue to hear testimony on CSHB 187 - NO~ Insurance Fault Insurance. The chairman invited Allan Engstrom to beginl HB 187 his testimony. He deferred to Bill Baker who had a letter to I distribute to corrunittee members. Mr. Engstrom then began his! testimony stating that he was acting as the legislative counse~ for the Alaska Bar Association. He said the Bar has been inte~- ested in no-fault since its inception two years ago. He felt I the cormni ttee should study this proposal "V'lell because it is a 'I big bill and there are a lot of things that will affect the , people of the Sta.te of Alaska. He said he didn't know why I this bill was so long, since bills in other states are only ! two or three pages. He said the Bar is in favor of a modifiedl no-fault system. (Orsini and Banfield arrived 4:00 p.m.) He ! said if you wanted to prepare a bill that would meet the philo~- ophy of the senate, it would have to have a lo'\-\]" thresll.hold. I He gave the history of the present tort system shoi.N'ing there I will have to be quite a few changes to meet under no-fault. ! He said that 81 per cent of the premium in Alaska goes to I property' damage and only 19 per cent to liability. That is what we are talking about--the 19 per cent. He said figures from the Department of Transportation showed that liability claims are below $2,000 in 85'per cent of the claims. He said it appeared that the federal government v-Tas tired of having people who were grievously injured placed on the wel- fare rolls and this is one reason for no-fault. He said the I insurance companies hate the small claims for pain and suffer-l ing. There isn't enough money involved to bother with so they! just settle and don't fi.ght. They don't pay much attention J to whether the claim is legitimate or not. In the larger case~ a jury has to Iind which party was at fault and this is when I we need to have that bill on comparative negligence. But that! is another matter. I ----------------------- Page 79----------------------- 3/1 Page 2 Another objection to the present system is that you might (' hit someone who is judgment proof. Under no-fault it is HE 187 \\~ compulsory so you would get paid. Mr. Engstrom said that there was objection to the amount of attorneys fees' paid No-Fault for by the claimants ~in these cases. He said this does Insurance mount up sometimes. He disagreed with the a.ssumption that the court dockets were clogged. He said you could check here in Juneau and would find no problem. He said he didn't know about Anchorage or Fairbanks but doubted if they had any problem in this regard. Another objection~to the present system, Mr. Engstrom said, was the claims were not handled expeditiously. He said he didn't think this was true because your insurance adjuster usually handled at least the small claims and they paid within 30-45 days. \ This was for the small claims under $3,000. He said that length of time was generally caused by the check having to be written say in Seattle or San Francisco and the no-fault system will not change that. Mr. Engstrom in discussing the threshhold for medica.lfelt that $2,000 was too high and it should be possibly $500. He felt it would be just the same as saying that no one in the State of Alaska is entitled to pain and suffering by having the $2,000 threshhold. This would eliminate about 95 per cent of the cases. This is a policy decision that the legislature will have to make. He noted that Charles [ Brown, AMIA, represented by Jan Van Dort, testified in the !'~' Commerce Committee that if you used a $1,000 threshhold that this would cover 75 per cent of the pain and suffering cases. The Bar Association is advocating a $500 threshhold for medi- cal. Mr. Engstrom didnrt feel that !Ieconomic determination" was clearly defined in the bill. Mr. Hickey said you could buy added coverage to cover any excess you might have in work loss over the $1,000 per month. Allan felt there would be a real problem in interpretation on this point. Jan said he had. talked to Allan about this and they hadn't been able to figure it out. He felt there would be problems with this and' recommended that Ju.diciary change it to make it more clear what "economic determination" really meant.· Otherwise he could see this going to the Supreme Court. McVeigh wanted to know ho\'1 difficult it would be to have this part rew'ritten. Allan said what he would write would be different from what Mr. Hickey would want. There was also discussion about how you could determine what wage loss would be when you worked in a profession that was based on fees or commissions. Dan didn t t think there would be any problem in this regard'. Malone asked about the fisherman who could lose his whole season.. Allan said there was a provision ltv-here seasonal workers I income i,\]'ould be averaged out. Chance said a fisherman might lose his gear and boat because he couldn't make his mort- gage payments. Mr. Eastaugh said that when you start defining something like economic loss and start making a list of things you might forget something and then it wouldntt be included. He thinks you should let the court decide what the losses are~ McVeigh agreed that if you list specifics then anything not on the list is out .. -70- ----------------------- Page 80----------------------- 3/1 Page 3 He said if you used something like "economic 10ss1l then it HB 1S)7 1-\fould include unusual s i tua tions that you might not remember. Allan said he ha.d no argument v.;i th using general language. No-Fault The next point of discussion centeredarcund the cost. He Insurance said if this system goes from paying just the party at fault to paying both parties there v1ill have to be increased cost involved. Either the premiums 'will go up or there has to be a reduction in benefits. Charles Brown felt that the only thing wrong with the present system of tort liability was the small pain and suffering claims. He said these claims were 40-45 per cent of the 19 per cent figure mentioned earlier. (H~len Beirne arrived at 4:l.J·5 p.m.) Mr. Engstrom felt that a $500 thres~hold for medical would eliminate pain and suffer- ing claims almost altogether. The only sure way of deter- mining cost is by experience. One way to have lower premiums is to be self~insured. Allan said he Havered between $2,000 and $3,000 for a mixed threshhold of medical and wage loss. If you have a lower threshhold the. person in the higher wage bracket is not go- ing to be limited in his recovery. If you had $3-,000 that would probably cover about 90 per cent of the cases. He said the Bar also felt a person should have the option \'lhether to take basic loss or to sue in tort. He said of the latest information he had received from 8 of 14 states do not exempt tort litigation. Allan then turned his discussion to the subrogation provisie>n. Once you reach the threshhold then the insurance company can sue for what it has already paid to its claimant. The Ttlay it is set up both can sue at the same time and this gets very involved. He felt that procedures like workments comp ,,[auld be more appropriate. The Workments Comp law works very well. Lastly he mentioned a statute of limitations. It provides for statutory periods whereby the claimant can sue the insured. He said he could find no limitation on when you can bring an action in tort once you reach the threshhold. There is the possibility that you might not reach the thresh- hold for two years and you are limiting the period of action to t't\fO years from the da te of the accident. The original bill did provide for a tort limitation. This was on page 27. He concluded by saying that he hoped the committee would con.,. sider what he said today and thanked them for listening to him He distributed some information on bill comparisons in other states. McVeigh said the thrust of the Bar testimony was to lower the threshhold. Allan agreed with this. Orsini moved to adjourn at 5:15 p.m. -71- ----------------------- Page 81----------------------- 57 :oJ HOUSE JUDICIARY CO~lITTEE MIJ:.rDTES OF THE MEETING Monday, March 5, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 4:45 p.m. in Room lOL~ of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Chance, Malone, Tillion, Beirne, and Kaden. The chairman said the reason \'le were meeting today after Privilege adjournment in the House was to hear Peter Bridge, a news- HB 84 for man, on HB 84 - Privilege for reporters. He said Joe La Reporters Rocca "'Tanted to be here and is opposed to this legislation, but due to other commitments he could not appear today. Chance noted that it was rather unusual for reporters to cover the activities of other newsmen. Mr. Bridge said this had become a habit for him. Mr. Bridge presented a general statement in writing to all committee members. He is in favor of absolute immunity for people in the news media. He said we might feel that Alaska shouldnft be too concerned about this since they have only a small population in comparison to other parts of the United States. He said he disagreed with this point of view and felt the press in Alaska as elsewhere has a repponsibility to the people. He said that shield laws are nothing more than an elaboration on the First Amendment of the Constitut- ion guaranteeing that newsmen would be able to execute their respons i bi.li ty having a free flow of information to the peopl . The people need this information since this is their only access to some types of information. He said he had had several discussions on the question relating to the shield laws and whether or not this would be construed as a poten- tial violation of the First Amendment. He could not see where an absolute shield law would abridge anything. He said this j_s important to Alaska because this state is on the brink of great affluence with the oil fields being developed. With the extra money that is going to come into the state you will need to shield investigative reports to uncover corruption that accompanies wealth. If the press doesntt fulfill its role as watchdog of government, then you can look forward to widespread and unarrested corruption. Mr. Bridge said if we passed anything less than absolute i~~unity for newsmen we would be wasting our time. He said any conditions would in effect destroy any inmlunity. He said we would prefer that we pass no bill if conditions were added. Of the 18 states that now have shield laws, 13 are absolute. He said that was \.'lhat happened to him in New Jersey. The court construed that the eondj tion ~'las a waiver of immunity ~ Mr. Bridge gave an example of what happened to him last summe . He said he wrote a story in which he determined that a. city attorney was in a position of conflict of interest. He own law firm was doing business with the city. This statement ----------------------- Page 82----------------------- j/? Page 2 of fact was substantiated by the lawyer himself on affirma- tion of the situation. A few weeks later he publicly said he was go,ing to sue me for libel. He wanted to know where HB the information came from. He wanted to punish the source Shield of the information. He said he had an idea that if libel Laltv were excepted and the constitutionality not proved to the satisfaction of the Supreme Court, you would see a spate of civil suits. Mr. Bridge felt this immunity should apply to more than news- men. He said there are publishers, editors, heads of the three major networks, etc. These should be included. Chance asked how the news media's responsibility would be maintained. Mr. Bridge said your pay check is the policing. If you delve into bad practices, you no longer are able to get hired as a reporter. He admitted that there is or has been irrespon- sibility at times, but it is pretty well controlled. He also said that it was hard to prove libel now since the Sullivan vs. New York Times case. NOTV'l you have to prove malicious intent. This is very hard to do. Mr. Bridge told of his own case. He said it" was very unusual in that it usually takes two years to process a case to com- pletion. It took him 4-1/2 months from subpoena to jail. He was jailed for 20 days. Rep. Meekins asked Mr. Bridge to tell about the discussion with a press group on the definition of "newsmen lt • Mr. Bridge said this involved a discussion of just who should be covered under the shield law. He said in New Jersey it was defined as anyone who is responsibly engaged in the free flow of information as it related to the media. He said that a perso in this occupation would still have to prove their stories, but not reveal the sources of information. He suggests that we make the definition of newman as broad as possible. This way everyone will pretty well be covered. Rep. Miller asked what you would do about the person who just manufactured information about someone--out to get them. The new'sman says it is from a news source that he will not disclose. Mr. Bridge said there are remedies, but they are not always available. He gave an example of such a happening. He said in this case another newspaper began an investigation due to the stories and found this was a scurrilous attempt to dirty the name of a potential candidate. The obvious remedy is competition. What/in effect/will happen if you dontt have a shield law, is ne~lsman will start leaving controversial 'information out of their stories. Also the sources of information will dry up and it will be almost like censorship. This results in a controlled press. Mr. Bridge wanted to stress that this is not specifically for the press but for the people who need q free flow of information. -73- ----------------------- Page 83----------------------- 3/5 Page 3 Rep. ·Parker asked Mr. Bridge to comment on the la.nguage HB 84 on Page 4, Lines 5-7. Mr. Bridge said he did not know Why we added lIar articles II on Line 10. Parker said this was to include the person not normally in the business. Shield Bridge thought you might run into a judicial problem La1tJ wi th that ,,'lording. He said he obj ected to the term "reporter!!. He thinks the city editor should be included because he may be the first to know about some information and is most likely to know the source. He thought you could s y Tlnews person" so it would not single out newspaper reporters. He said he didn't bring the New Jersey statute with him. He felt it was the stronges t shield law' in the country. He said he would send a copy to us when he returned home. He fel t tha t this bill ~Tould do the job, though. Andy Williams asked Mr. Bridge if he felt his case had any- thing to do with New Jersey's shield law. He said it did because they called his lawyer and he wrote part of it. At least they drafted the bill from information obtained from his lawyer. They called a. special session of the legislature. Mr. Williams then asked that since the First Amendment had sufficed for 175 years~ did he feel that the next administra.- tion or clamp down by state government has necessitated this type of action. He said he felt that it did because absence of law according to the Supreme Court decision would not allow immuni ty. Mr. vTilliams asked if there should be some sort of law to require the newsman to report anything of ~'1hich he wa.s aware that dealt with a crime or commission of a crime. He said if you did this you would destroy the shield. Tillion asked if sometime stories were written about politicia s tha.t are not completely true--all details not filled in--and it wouldn't affect the individual too greatly that vlouldn't make too much difference, but when it comes to a businessman it could ruin his business. !vIr. Bridge says this does happen sometimes but a free flow of information to the public can only in the end result be healthy. If you add restrictions this then becomes unhealthy. Chance noted that Mr. Bridge had earlier shown that the news media is better self-policed than a lot of other licensed professions. She said it was her experience that this was true. Tillion said that Tom Browne and Joe LaRocca were going to testify on this bill at a later date. Meeting adjourned at 5:50 p.m. -74- ----------------------- Page 84----------------------- 3/6 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Tuesday, March 6, 1973 ( Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:50 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Orsini, Banfield, and Kaden. Malone arrived soon after convening. There was some discussion on CSHB-95 - Confidentiality of HB 95 Confident. bank records. Malone and Kaden had l.vorked this version Bank over and it was presented to the committee. He said he Records thought the committee wanted this to reach only valid inquiries that had to be from and to financial institutions. Hayden said that as it is written it does not allow others to get this information. He said this version was made to apply to all financial institutions in Title 06. Banfield noted that this was not what was on the CS and Hayden said this was a typists error. This will be changed. Mr. Don Magnusson said this would do no good unless credit reporting agencies are included. Banks can already make these exchanges using code numbers, etc. (Chance arrived. 3:55 p.m.) Tillion asked what was the arrangement for credit a.gencies in the stat . Couldn I t we open it to them 'tfJi thout including anyhodyextendin '" credit? 'Malone felt this was possible but we were not doing it in the CS. Tillion suggested adding tr some duly authorized or licensed credit agencies. tt Mr. Magnusson. said we should ( add as regulated under a particular statute. Orsini asked what the intent of this ,provision was and Mr. Magnusson said the only information to be given out was as to pay habits. Malone said he didn't feel this should be put under the section of law dea.ling with banks. The commi ttee ",ranted to have this drafted so that it covered credit reporting agencies Malone asked what provisions we had in statutes covering credit agencies. Hayden said there were no state statutes but they were covered under federal laws. Malone said the reason he asked is he wanted to be sure there are some regu- lations and that the credit agencies are responsible. Malone said he would like to know what the federal statutes are for these agencies. (McVeigh arrived 4:07 p.m.) McVeigh said he didntt kno~v of any state statute, but this is only to give out info.rmation regarding payments habits. Hayden will check the federal statutes for consideration at a later meeting. "CSHB 126 - Limited Entry to Fishing.. Tillion said ~'le had the CSHB Limited . CS from Resources and there are two things he would like to 126 Entry see changed. He said it was the intent to cover all fisheries The way it came over, it did not automatically cover all fish- eries so there were a series of amendments that he proposed to make this change. The cornmittee agreed that all fishing resources should be included under this bill. A CS from House Judiciary will be drawn to cover this. Banfield said that maybe Resources did not want to cover all fisheries for some reason. Tillion said they wanted to do this but left it to the Commission to decide which fisheries should be covered. Chance said Resources bill addresses itself to the situation after depletion and our proposal '\Vould address itself to before depletion. -75-- ----------------------- Page 85----------------------- 3/6 Page 2 Tillion said that under this bill the Commission shall CSHB establish how much gear should be used when a new fishery 126 begins. They also have the power to increase gear when necessary. It was asked ~lJhy we needed section (b) and Tillion said the Governor t s attorney reco!nmended tha t it be left in because that is what the constitutional Limited change had in it. Tillion said he worked \lJith Mr. Jackman Entry on this and he preferred the bill to be as close as possi- ble to what Resources had but to include all fisheries. Malone asked about the provision that a man must give six months' notice before he can dispose of his entry permit. Tillion said the purpose was to protect someone from sell- ing it in the bar in the winter. Tillion didn't think this 1;'Jould cause a hardship on 99 per cent of the fishermen. Tillion said there was one other amendment \-·li th regard to gear units. This is on Page 7. Banfield asked if there was a definition of Ufamily income ll • Tillion said this followed the guidelines of Social Security. Malone said this bill '!flaS covering commercial fisheries relat- ing to salt water and asked if this would apply to fresh wa ter fisheries. lvIcVeigh said the only one he knew was the natives' white fish industry and. that 'tvas under subsistence. They can sell up to 1,000 pounds of their surplus catch in a subsistence fishery. On Page 12, line 6, under transfer of permits. This whole section will be deleted and a new section added. This was basica.lly put in by Legal Services with the fear that the native would sell his license during the winter while in a bar. Tillion did not think it would cripple the fisheries in any way. There is a hardship clause for transfers even for temporary conditions. Orsini asked. if you could borrow money on your entry permit. Tillion said you could borrow on your boat and gear but not on your permit. McVeigh asked if this would be like a liquor license that becomes an asset of value and this is to be treated as a license and not an asset. Tillion said it would be half""ay between the two~ One of the basic purposes was that as the number of fisher- i'nen decreases the licenses'will be worth more. The next amendment dealt with a time limit for applying for entry. A person must apply within one year to be eligible. That would be one year.of the effective date of this act. If you didntt apply within this time limit you would no longer be eligible. Tillion said it didntt make any dif- ference to him on this point since all the other criteria were satisfactory. Orsini asked how it would be determined 'liTho would qualify for an entry permit. Tillion said that it varied. Trolling 'lil0uld include anyone who has made a delivery within the last three years. -76- ----------------------- Page 86----------------------- 3/b Page 3 There was some discussion on how this would be handled in CSHR certain areas of the fisheries. In Cook Inlet the decision ( was to cut out 25 per cent of the gear because of the large 1: amounts of gear. It leaves these decisions up to the Gov- Limited ernor's Commission. McVeigh asked why the commission was Entry exempted from the APA. Tillion said the AGts office recommend d that because they will be hearing cases in Bristol Bay where they are really cutting down. It was asked if there was need for a severability clause. Hayden said this \vasn't necessary since this is in general law for any statute. Tillion said that due to the overcapitalization of the fleet the United States has dropped from second to eighth place in the world fisheries. This is an attempt to turn this around. He said the Japanese are very vulnerable and as inefficient as we are, we are still competitive to the Japanese on their high seas gillnet fishery. If we reduce our fleet and modern- ize a bi t we could take over from them. We would get a:];. competitive advantage over them. There was some discussion as to what a unit of gear was. Tillion said there were set amounts of gear for certain fisheries. McVeigh said the amount of gear according·to· the bill was based on the number of units fished in the~ preceding four years. That may be well over the optimum allowed. Tillion said this would be handled by assessing /. every license holder so much a year to put in a buy-back \ fund· and anybody 'V'Tho wants to sell a license or boat, gear, and license cari do so. He does not have to sell to the state. When the optimum is reached there will be no more buy-backs. Tillion said the easiest way to sell was to the state and eventually they would reach the proper level. This was proven by Canada .. McVeigh asked if more than one fishing entry permi would be allowed for different fisheries. Tillion said you could have one permit for each fishery for which you qualify. You would also be assessed for buy back in each fishery if necessary and also would pay the necessary license for each one. Orsini asked how you would repay a loan if something happened to you. How would the bank get its money back? Tillion said you could only loan against your boat and gear. Malone said there was a hardship;clause. You could transfer your entry permit in this case. That v.Tay the boat could keep fishing.- No person can hold two entry permits in the same fishery. That is why a cannery cannot do this. Malone asked if there had been any testimony from the cannery industry on this. Tillion said there had and all of it was in opposition to the bill. He said their biggest objection was that they had no way of enforcing contracts between fishermen and the can- nery.. Tillion said they had this fear because right novl they finance most of the fishing operationsin the state. Fisher- men don't go to a bank for money, they go to the cannery. The cannery says they will have to deliver their fish to them. Also if you have a bad year, the cannery does not take your boat like a bank would. -77- . ----------------------- Page 87----------------------- 3/6 Page 4 Tillion said there were other reasons for dealing with a CSHB cannery. They usually have a machine shop and if your 126 Limited boat breaks down you can get it fixed and back fishing Entry in the shortest time possible. There are certain advantages but you are under their control. They used to change fisher- men if they had problems, and this bill will not allow them to do that. Malone moves that the amendments be encompassed in a com..l11itte substitute by the Judiciary Committee. There ltvas no objectio . Tillion asked if the committee wanted to adopt the amendment by Eliason with regard to the one-year time limit to'pick up your entry permit. Malone wanted to know how this would affect the date of the bill, because you have to have an entry permit. Tillion said that maybe you were gone from the state for some reason and did not hear about this law. As it is now you 1,10uld be eligible if you had been here. To an Alaskan this l,vould be an advantage, because it would be outsiders that you would be eliminating. Those living outside might not hear about the bill until the deadline had passed. Malone felt this was a reasonable provision. This amendment was to be included in the es. McVeigh reported on CSHB 187 - No-Fault - and ~aid that he would be meeting with Dan Hickey, from the AG's office, in HB 187 the morning. He v.Tas going to have Mr. Hickey take him through the bill and prepare a short paragraph on each of No-Fault the sections so that when we meet and discuss the bill v.Te Insurance will have a brief explanation that we can understand. This will be typed up and made available to committee members. Banfield moved to take up HB 86 - Nursing Board. Rep_ Beirne HB 86 Nursing will carry this on the floor. Malone said there 'was some Board change in the makeup of the board but this change was accept- able to the nursing association. The people in the profession felt it was more important to have competence rather than have representativeson a geographical location'plan. Orsini said he agreed with their concept. Banfield moved this bill out vIith a liDo Pass fJ recommendation and asked unanimous consent. It was s'igned out unanimously. : Point The next item for discussion \vas HB-9 - Motor Vehicle Point HB 9 System System. Tillion said this CS was developed from Randolphts and ~va.rwick' s bill. Under this bill you can f t assess more than six points for any one offense. Mr. Hickey can answer questions on this bill .. Campaign HB 257 - Campaign Expenditures. Tillion said he felt there Expend. were a few changes ,that should be made to this bill. Money HB 257 for elections should be deposited 'with the Lieutenant Gov- '--/ ernor's office. Banfield asked if this meant all expenditures \'lould be sent out of that office under his signature for any use of the news m~dia by candidates. Tillion said he thought this would be all right. -78- ----------------------- Page 88----------------------- jjO Page 5 Malone asked if you post your money by a certain time or HB 257 ( would you be allowed to just send it in. Tillion thought you could send it in. Tillion said what he considered was the values because your amounts can get pretty high. McVeigh Campaign said consideration should be given to the areas covered in a Expend. campaign. It is more costly in the larger areas of populatio Banfield said as soon as you set a limit that is what it will cost to conduct your campaign. Tillion felt that $2,500 and $5,000 was plenty. Malone asked the prime sponsor what he considered a tlnewspaper" for the purposes of this bill. McVeigh felt this would be any paper that is made available to the public and sold as an instrument of news. Tillion· said the "Guardian If wouldn f t be covered. Malone said there was a paper in his area that was sent out without cost to the public. McVeigh said we could put in a definition. Banfield then asked if this included the TV Guide. McVeigh felt there was a certain amount of value in keeping it to ones held out for sale. You may want to print one up for your own campaign and you wouldn't ,.vant this cost included. Orsini felt it should be any vehicle that sells advertising to the public. Malone said what we were trying to cover 1ITaS advertising that is costing money. If there is a news- paper that does· lit free it shouldn't be considered a news- paper in that sense. This should be limited to what the candidate pays for. McVeigh agreed because it is the amount / of money spent in the media that we want to limit. We also ( want to avoid a candidate having to seek huge sums of money in order to carryon his campaign thereby selling himself in the process. Tillion said he would like to reduce the amounts on lines 16 and 17 to $2,500 and $5,000. Malone objected to the differentiation between candidates of the state house of representatives and state senate candidates. You have to reach just as many people in each instance. He felt it should be considered on a per voter basis--say 50¢ per registered voter taken from the last general election. McVeigh felt we should think about this and have it ready to discuss for tomorrow. Some way it should be tied to the registered voters. That is more easily defined. Executive CSSB-13 -Executive Budget Documents. This vvas referred to CSSB Budget Rules Cornmittee. It requires that copies of the budget docu- 13 Documents ment shall be available for distribution the same day as the Governor presents his budget to the legislature. Banfiel said that now we are starting the session on the third Wednes day of January this should be no problem. McVeigh moves it out If Do Pass" and asks unanimous consent. All signed "Do Pas n McVeigh moved to adjourn at 5:40 p.m. -79- ----------------------- Page 89----------------------- 3/7 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Wednesday, March 7, 1973 Cha.irman Tillion called the meeting or order at 3:42 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Chance, Tillion, Banfield, Orsini, McVeigh,' and Kaden. Limited Chance moved to adopt the CSHB 126 - Limited Entry. Orsini CSHB objected because he did not like the six months;J time limit 126 ~ntry before transfer ""auld be permitted. There was further dis- cus sian. The CS 1·QaS adopted. Chance then moved CSHB 126 out of committee \"fith a "Do Pass lJ recommendation and asked unanimous consent. There was no objection and it was signed out lfDo Pass lt by everyone present. The CS for HB 95 was reported on. Hayden said he had checked Confid. on the federal statutes that covered credit reporting agencies HB 95 Bank and had. a copy of highlights of the federal statutes covering Records these agencies. This law would cover such reporting agencies so if referred to as under federal statute and give the number this should cover them. Tillion said we had to cover the reporting agencies because banks can exchange this information now. (Malone arrived 3:50 p.m.) This includes the paying habits of depositors and not their bank balance. Hayden said he thought the way it was written it would cover Penneys. Mr. Magnusson said they wouldn't be included as a credit reporting agency under this law.~ Hayden said if you relayed this information to a third party then you ""ould come under the federal act. He felt that anybody that might relate third pa.rty information "vould be allowed to receive the information we are talking about underithis bill. Mr. Mag- nusson said he didntt think they wouldD~ligible and they don't do it anyway_ It is easier for them to go to a credit reporting agency rather than call people themselves. Malone said he would like to see the full copy of the law because he didn't think this brochure was complete enough. Malone said he didn t t know how vle could incorporate this into our law and where it would fit in the statutes. Kaden said this would not be necessary because it is already federal law. Hayden said paragraph (5) notes the reference to the federal statute.- (Banfield left at 4:00 p.m.) vle will defer action on this until Malone checks the federal statute. It will be considered again tomorrow. Point The next item was the point system, CSHB-9. Tillion said HB 9 that Ivan v.Tas available if the committee wanted him to' go System through this with them .. He is the attorney that qrafted this. Mr. Randolph is also here ·to explain his bill. Mr. Randolph felt it would be beneficial to have Ivan explain the bj.ll. Randolph said he had made substantial changes from the original bill. There also was a b~ll put in by Public Safety on the point system. There differences in t hose two versions. The primary difference is the way the offender is treated~ -80- ----------------------- Page 90----------------------- 3/7 Page 2 ( The person doesntt come under any big problem until he get 12 points. In the other bill he gets into trouble after 6 points. They can then send you to training classes, HB 9 Point or other things in which to rehabilitate you. At 12 pOints System you lose your driver's license. Public Safety did not take a stand on this bill one way or the other but said they could live "("'lith this, but they are in favor of some type of a point system. Orsini asked about the person who needs to make a living by either driving to work or having an occupation requiring driving. Randolph said this left in a provision for temporary licenses. He didn't think it should be in there because this applies after the person has reached 12 points. Orsini asked if there was a manda- tory revocation. Randolph said not in the bill. Under the other bill they start working with you on rehabilitation after you reach 6 points. The maximum number of!points you can be assessed is 6 points for anyone offense. Tillion said the only failure he saw in the bill was the provision for an interim permit being allowed once you" hit the 12 pOint. People 't'lill just have to realize they will have to have some- one else drive them to and from work. Orsini agreed that when you reached the limit you should not be able "to get an interim license. Malone had a question on lines 22-24 where it mentioned the difference in levels for points of young drivers and adult drivers. He wanted to know the reason for difference. He felt all drivers should be treated the same whether young or old. Randolph sa.id the Department would set up the point limit. (Banfield arrived at Lk15 p.m.) Orsini felt that young drivers should be subject to the same rules as every- one else. Mr. Hickey said this section is referring to the driver improvement part of the bill and that was why the lower number of paints would bring young drivers in for rehabilitation services. They would have to take corrective training and this is easier for young people than for people with long-time driving habits. When they have six points then they have to come in for a~driving improvement interview. He may even be requested to take another examination. He may also be required to take a driver improvement course, and \'1it a juvenile they can have him come in say at 4 points instead of 6. The juvenile would have to take the course, etc, earli r. Mr. Hickey said it should be understood that the points are counted the same and when they reach 12 points they are dealt vIi th the same as adults. Orsini asked why they had taken out the definitive points in the original bill. Mr. Hickey said it would be more flexible to do this by regul"ation because they can change it when necessary. This is also the approach used by the Uniform Vehicle Code. He didn't think the legislature could think about every offense that will ever occur and assign points. -81- ----------------------- Page 91----------------------- 3/7 Page 3 Mrs. Banfield asked for an explanation for (e) on Page 2. This referred to assessing points for offenses committed HB 9 out of state. Dan said departments exchange this type of" information regularly. Banfield asked 't'lhat if it was a Point speed trap. McVeigh said it is usually the practice in System circumstances like this that you just pay the fine and go on your way. It would take tro long to wait until you could go before the judge, so you just pay even if youtre not guil ty. Orsini said there is a tendency to stop out of state cars an~lay. Hickey said he didn't think this was that serious of a problem. He said we needed to have this provision because we have to have reciprocity with other states when we suspend a license of a driver here. If he applies for a license in another state, th~y won't give him one if \ATe exchange this information. McVeigh said a person is only supposed to have one license so this shouldn t be a problem. Hickey said it 't'las purely a question of policy. What value were you going to place on the adjudication in the other states. Banfield then asked how much bookkeeping this would make for the commissioner. Hickey said most of this is computerized and he would only be required to enter the court disposition of the case. Chance noted that McVeigh had a point about driving outside. Just for convenience you pay the fine because you have to take your trip. Isn't that covered in the administrative r \ ........./ review? Hickey said the determination was subject to chal- lenge. Orsini moved to delete lines 25-27 on Page 2 and asked unanimous consent. Hickey said he felt the committee should realize the risk that is involved. We won't be able to expect other states to honor our convictions. Chance felt we could go back to the administrative review section and then you could appeal to have those points removed. This is on Page 9, Section (h). Dan said these can be appealed if they are under the issues allowed starting on Page 9. There would be tremendous proof problems. How could you prove you werentt guilty of some infraction in another state. He didn't see how we could legislatively provide for elimination of such points. Orsini said he didn't object to keeping track of violations in other states, t but didn' t think points should be assessed for them in Alaska. McVeigh also noted the differing conditions in another juris- diction. Take freeway conditions, for example> you may become confused and make some mistakes that you didn t t know was vlrong in their ordinances or laVls. Maybe you were traveling too slow or maybe. you started down a one-'tvay street just because you were not familiar with conditions. In these cases if you forfeit bail it is the same as a conviction and you will be . assessed pOints for it in Alaska.. He just thinks it is unfair Hickey didn f t think it "las critical, in any case. Chance fel t there should be some consideration given because you were not acquainted 1-vith the layout of the community.. This bill would assess points for such things. Hickey said you usually get -82- ----------------------- Page 92----------------------- 3/7 Page l.~ tickets for doing something you aren t t supposed t,o be doing. ( Malone thinks there should be more consideration given to HB 9 this pOint. Point Malone returned to the age noted for which the department System could call them in sooner. Why is it I8? 1-Jhy not go up to 24 in this category. Hickey said it was 18 because the statutes make a distinction now at 18 and any young driver up to 18 has to have his parent's Signature before he can get his li.cense. That is the reason for using age 18. Logically it could be 24 and still serve for purposes of rehabilitation. Tillion said we could take that section out~ It is only one sentence. Malone said the reason he was concerned about this section is that if you don't appear for this conference your license can be suspended for 30 days. Randolph said if you left that in about out-of-state offenses it would be a little bit unfair, but he felt that 90 per cent would be treated fairly_ The reason for the early call in for younger drivers to like preventative medi- cine. Malone said his particular objection to this clause is that the level of difference in point accumulation. Just say this applies to any driver. Tillion suggested we do \tv-hat Malone said an page 2 and let the bill go out. Orsini also had his amendment. Malone said he didn't want to change ( the bill but he didn't think young drivers were the only ones \ ' that could gain from correctional programs. Chance said there were some statistics from last year that showed older age groups are showing noticeable improvement and receiving fewer citations after going through a defensive driving program. Malone decided not to move for an amendment to cover this pOint. Orsini asked for his amendment on Page 2, lines 25-27. OrSini, McVeigh, Banfield, Chance and Malone voted Yes on Orsini's amendment. Tillion voted No. Motion passed and amendment was adopted. Banfield moved that this bill go to Finance Committee because it has financial implications. Tillion felt the Speaker could do this. Chance moves to pass this bill out v1i th a If Do Pass IT recommendation. McVeigh and Banfield object. Chance and Tillion voted Yes; Banfield, McVeigh, Malone, and Orsini voted No. Motion failed. Malone asked what a tI judicial If revie"., 'tv-as on the point system. Hickey said basically once an individual hits 12 pOints in one year the department can do a number of things. The individual can request an administrative review of the decision to suspen . This is on an informal basis. He has to set out the issues he wishes to appeal and these are limited according to the items mentioned in the bill. If the department determines these 'issues against the licensee the department action is sustaine . If these same issues are brought up at the administrative hear ing, decided in favor of the action of the department, the individual can appeal that decision to the district court. It is a three-pronged appeal, administrative review, administrati e hearing, and then district court. -83- ----------------------- Page 93----------------------- 3/7 Page 5 The individual can merely take a suspension into court and get himself a limited license. Tillion said we would now move on the CSHB 187 - No-Fault CSHB insurance. McVeigh said he wasn't ready to vote on no-fault. 187 No-Fault He is still working on Randolph's changes. He found there Insurance have been some changes in theory. He thought at first it would only be the threshhold that was different. There is the Governor 1 s approach. and Randolph's approach and they are different. Tillion said he would have preferred to add the property damage--fender benders--but we are trying to get this on the floor. Malone asked if McVeigh had the synopsis for the committee. He said he had talked with Mr. Hickey and they would have this on each committee mem- ber's desk on the morning this bill will be placed on the calendar. This will be a section by section analysis then "'Then it goes into debate you will be able to understand what each section does. McVeigh said he would not put the bill on the calendar before Monday because the analysis would not be ready until then. McVeigh is meeting with Hickey and Engstrom tomorrow. Tillion asked McVeigh if he thought that, damage to vehicles should be reincluded in this bill. He said he personally thinks it should., There are differences in philosophy in the three versions; Governor's, Randolphts, and Engs troms .' Randolph said there are some substantial' changes in the \'lay the Governor's bill came down. One was the threshhold on pain and suffering. Property damage was taken out altogether. If death occurs you can sue anyt'lay. Randolph said that no state when it went into no-fault had property damage included, only bodily in/jury. Massachusetts and Florida have gone into property damage now. Michigan has included this now, also. The other major change Commerce made "'las to lower the thresh- hold from $87,500 to $50,000. He has lots of material in his files and members of this coro..mittee are welcome to obtain this material. The main reason for no-fault is that there are significant delays in paying for serious injuries. You can~~t recover lost wages under the present system, but under thisl is provided for. If you go above the $2,000 threshhold on medical then you can sue for pain and suffering. Tillion said he thought the medical threshhold should be $5,000. Liability is 20 per cent of the premiums, according to testi- mony heard in Commerce Committee, and the tort liability is 36 per cent of the to'tal cost. That means that much is law- yer's fees. Randolph clarified that by saying the 20 per cen is for bodily injury and not property damage liability. Tillion said VoTe were trying to help people who "'Tere getting nothing under todayfs system to automatically be covered unde this thereby receiving benefits. Malone said he would like to review this further without taking further testimony. -84- ----------------------- Page 94----------------------- J 3/7 Page 6 I Tillion asked if we wanted to send the bill out as Commerce I ( sent it to us, or does the committee 1}lish to add the fender i benders. Randolph said you should remember this is compulsory I I _8'{ and if you include property damage then you are insisting that' No-Fault people buy collision insurance. Hickey said the main reason Insurance for not including property damage was strictly because of the cost. If it is excluded it will affect a cost reduction you realize in passing no-fault. Under the present system you' . have duplication of coverage. He gave the example of a person having collision insurance and also have uninsured motorists coverage. You have property damage., You' cover your car and also damages to another personts car. Under no-fault this I will be covered only once. Chance asked if they had different rates for different vehicles. Hickey said they did. It is because your property damage liability reflects the automobile driven by the other party. Hickey said you could get your basic loss coverage from one insurance company and the optiona collision insurance from another. Tillion noted that the bill did not require that insurance companies 10\"Ter their rates. Randolph did not agree with Dan on double coverage. Dan mentioned you have duplicate coverage. You are buying premium I for both and buying it twice. This is not true. It may seem this itlay because you have two coverages, but it is like ,buying a whole pie, half a piece here and half a piece there. Physical damage is taken under either. If you pay for it all under onel coverage it will cost you more. He said it vTas not the insur- I ance companies who started no-fault it was the stock companies I They devised the first no-fault system to be operated like workments compensation as a vehicle to get more business through mass marketing. There is a conflict within the indus- try. Mr. Hickey read some comments on this from the National Conference of Cow~issioners. This pertained to the uniform act. He said total insurance costs will be reduced because there 'will be a loss in assigning responsibility. Many of the systems cost more under no-fault than their present sys- tems. For the person who has collision insurance it will probably go dovrn. Tillion said that was why he vlanted propert damage in here. The man driving the old car will have a iow premium and the man with the expensive car w'ill have to have a high premium. It 1-1ill be based on the value of the car., This is the decision the committee will have to make. Orsini said he \i'lould just as soon see it go out as is. Malone wanted to look at it one more time. Chance requested that it be the first order of business for tomorrow's meeting. She would like Mr. Hickey to go over it one section at a time. Malone requested more consideration of the threshhold 1"Then Banfield and Me'Veigh can be here. Chance said she didn't knovl why you couldn't require that a person take certaj.n types of coverage and list what the 1 premium 1Tould be. If they didn f t \"lant it they could reject it in writing. Randolph said this missed the limitation of tort. -85- ----------------------- Page 95----------------------- 3/7 Page 7 Tillion agreed and said the tort costs are large. Chance IRB 187 suggested issuing first party insurance coverage; every- thing then would be decided behind closed doors by the insuranc companies. Dan said this would cost too much money. He said as it is now, for premium dollar paid in~ there is very little that goes back to the policy holder. It is minimal No-Fault compared to health insurance which returns 93-95 percent Insurance to the insureds. Hickey said the CS addresses itself to the problem of undercompensation for the seriously injured as ,'VeIl as the problem of the overcompensation for those not seriously injured. Malone asked how this would affect the Financial Responsibilit Act. We will continue discussion on this tomorrow. Randolph noted one more point .. There is a 20-day clause before a per- son can cancel his insurance. The insurance company has to notify the state that the cancellation is taking place. There is also a great discrepancy when you rate a person on his economic loss. The 70-year-old ~Tillhave lovI rates and some one with a family and a pretty good income will have higher rates. He thinks it should be something like it is now. Insurance companies look at what kind of a driver you are and under no-fault they will look at what kind of a victim you will be. Premiums will be set accordingly. Hickey said to put a limit on other things but not on medical. Malone moved to adjourn at 5:45 p.m. -86- ----------------------- Page 96----------------------- :5/0 HOUSE JUDICIARY CO~~ITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Thursday, March 8, 1973 ( Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:50 p.m. 1 in Room 10 -1- of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Banfield, Chance, Malone, Beirne, and Kaden. Tillion said we had SB-140am before the committee. Russ SB 14C Probate Mulder can tell us about that one. This is really a an Code revisor of statutes effort. Some things were not corrected in other laws after the Uniform Probate Code was adopted. There were several little mistakes in the bill last year and this bill just picks up those errors. Real Est. l~e also have HB-248 - Real estate surety fund. Mr. Eastaugh HB 24E Surety Fund said he is going to send over a brief on this bill. He is opposed to it. Chance said bonding company would oppose this. Tillion said the purpose ijTas that after they reached $'50,000 in the surety fund they didn I t want to put any more in it. This won't cost any more than it does with the bond-- ing companies. Tillion thinks we should do this with con- tractor's too since we have passed their bill. He thinks they should keep paying in but everything over the $50,000 should go into the general fund. Banfield said bonding com- panies don't give you a bond unless you don't need one. (Orsini arrived at 3:52 p.m.) ( " CSHB-95- Confidentiality of bank records. Malone said that R.L- ..75' Confid. he has checked the federal statute on credit reporting agencie Bank Recordsand would like to report his findings to the committee. He gave the definition of consumer reporting agency or a credit reporting agency. This is any person for which fees or on a cooperative basis regularly engage in the practice of assem- bling or evaluating credit information for the purpose of furn ishing consumer reports to third parties. This applies to any means of interstate commerce. He didn't think that would cover such reporting agencies in this state but only those engaged in interstate commerce. Mr. Magnusson said that all credit reporting agencies in Alaska have agreements \'1i th outside the state and transfer information. Chance said even if this was so, the reporting agencies in the state that fall under federal law would be able to exchange this information. Malone said the. federal lav\T covered a lot of things. Credit transactions involving a consumer, use of information for employment purposes, undenlriterts of insuranc , determination of the consumer's eligibility for licenses, etc. are covered. Tillion said this bill only covered revealing a person's payment habits. The amendment will say on line 27, after "title" add Itunder the Fair Credit Reporting Act, USC so and so. Chance moved to adopt this amendment and to includ it in the es. She asked unanimous consent. All voted yes exc Malone. Banfield moved the bill out of comrni ttee and asked it c unanimous. Orsini, Tillion, Banfield voted Yes; Chance, and Malone voted No. -87- ----------------------- Page 97----------------------- 3/8 Page 2 ( SB-24 - Relating to citations/vehicle and traffic offenses. SB 24 Hayden said that when one receives a moving violation there ~" Cltations are no printed schedules of fines. This a2lows a maximum and Vehicle minimum to be set by regulation. There is no way now that & traffic one can avoid going to court for these little violations. offenses In most states you can just go in and pay the money and then you don't have to lose work time. This says that the Supreme Court has the duty to 'set the appropriate fine for each offense. There vJould still be certain offenses for which you would have to make a court appearance. Tillion said he under- stood that the Judiciary people agree with this. The public also likes it. Banfield moved SB-24 out of committee and asked unanimous consent. Malone voted No; Orsini, Chance, Tillion, and Banfield voted Yes. Citations SB-25 - Issuing citations for misdemeanors. This does about SB 25 for Misdeam. the same thing as SB-24. It allows a peace officer who arrests a person for committing a misdemeanor or violates an ordinance to issue a citation instead of arresting the person and having them booked at the jail. He can just give you a . ticket. It is not mandatory and it is left to the discretion of the officer. Chance noted that SB-24 referred only to motor vehicle offenses and SB-25 is for violations of an ordinance. There were some examples of things that w'ould come under this law. Disorderly conduct, breaking win- ( dows, putting paint on buildings with a spray can, etc. I ,,~, Malone said jaywalking would be included. Banfield asked about where it said the officer would decide if the person he was citing 'would not appear later, then he would take him to be booked at that time. Tillion said that would include somebody who is on a boat, they may be leaving the next day. Chance moved that SB-25 be passed out of committee and asked unanimous consent. There was no objection. No-Fault Tillion said he v'lould like to consider CSHB-187 - No-Fault HB Insurance insurance - but had promised Dick that he wouldntt do this until he was here. Malone didntt know how we could defend this bill on the floor because there \'lill be many amendments offered there. Banfield said if we left it as Commerce Com- mittee sent it to us they would have to defend it. Randolph will carry it. Chance wanted Hickey to explain this to us section by section as was decided yesterday. There wontt be many members available for discussion Friday afternoon. It was decided to send it out as Commerce Committee sent it here and Banfield so moved and asked unanimous consent. Tillion requested that it be held so that Mr. McVeigh could sign it. The Commerce Committee substitute for HB 187 was Signed out. Chance moved to adjourn at 4:50 p.m. -88- ----------------------- Page 98----------------------- 3/12 HOUSE JUDICIARY CO~~ITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Monday, March 12, 1973 ( Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:50 p.m. in Room 104 ,of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Chance, Orsini, Tillion, Malone, Banfield, McVeigh, and Kaden. Campaign The first item for consideration was HB-257 - Campaign Limita- HB 25~ Limitationstions. Banfield doesn't know how you would determine the correct amount for each district. Tillion said that just because a person was running for the senate instead of the house they get more. He didn't think this was fair. Malone thought the amount should be attached to a per voter head count. Tillion felt this would be more equitable. Orsini felt that way about statewide candidates also. None of the other members did because there was a difference in running' locally and running statewide. There was mention made to the bill put in by Rep. Bradher. He recommends $1,500 for local and $7,500 for Governor for primary and for general. Tillion noted that it would be possible to enforce the per head figure. Orsini said we should add another section and put in the per capita number not making any reference to which race. McVeigh noted that every session he has been in the legislature there has been a bill on campaign expend-:~, itures and unless you keep it within provable limits you will' lose the bill. If this is restricted to just the limit on the media then this is provable. The media shall send to the / Lieutenant.;Governor's office the receipts and the billings to \,' each candidate. This is fine for a control factor. If you get into anything that is not provable the honest person suffers and the other gains. Chance noted that section 2 was for the protection of the candidate. Unauthorized persons couldn't be making the expenditures. She 'noted that there was no penalty for the media that does accept information from other than a candidate. Anything had to have the consent of the candidate before printing,or going out to the public on the airways. McVeigh suggested making it a $500 fine. Hayden asked who would be responsible for the fine--the girl behind the desk, the advertising manager, or who? Chance said it would be the corporation and they would hold the employee responsible. Hayden said this would be a criminal offense. Tillion said we should make it a civil offense against the newspapers, radio stations and television stations. Banfield asked about (f). She ~'lanted to know what you could do about somebody who runs a vicious campaign and comes out with false statements after you have already contracted for all of your advertising. You should give the candidate some- way out of this. Malone said the candidate should hold some of his money back just for this purpose. Malone then asked how you would consider it when sayan organization in associ- ation with the candidate came out '\-'lith information in support of one candidate or another. This is not spent by a candidate ( but by somebody else but it does in effect support one candid- ate and is against another, but it is not a part of the cam- paign. -89- ----------------------- Page 99----------------------- 3/12 Page 2 In the example just given, you would be outspent because HB 257 they are not unlimited. Orsini noted that you can't buy any radio or tv that close to the election time but if Campaio-n you have a block of time you could change your format . . LimitationsTillion said that the smear articles are left for the last. ,',. issue before the campaign is over. McVeigh thought we could require that anything submitted later than two weeks before appearing in print not be allowed. You might eliminate the smear problem and also attach to it that every candidate had a right to review ads affecting his reputation. Tillion didn't want to give the candidate the right to muzzle the paper. Chance felt it would be a good idea if there is an attack or something would affect the reputation of the can- didate that the media would be required to advise the can- didate of its contents or at least offer that you can review the information. Malone agreed that that was one way of doing it. Another way would be to prevent other persons or organi- ~tions from buying advertisements except that the candidate or his campaign manager could do this. Tillion didn't think you could do this. Chance said she felt the candidate needed the opportunity ·to review such material in order to provide an answer. Tillion stated that if you allowed this then you would have to block off some time for the last day or two before the election was over. You would only be able to review material that mentioned your name or by other means you could recognize who was meant. Orsini asked the committee to consider putting in a submission limit of· two weeks before publication. Tillion said he was not in favor of this. Chance felt that two weeks was too long and that 48 hours would be better. McVeigh said that he felt that a candidate ought to be able to see what is going to be said about him, against him, or for him prior to it becoming public knowledge. The candidate would have no right to interfere with publicatio . Chance said the FCC rules and regulations require that now but it is violated all the time. They are supposed to tell you th your name is being used. Then they are supposed to give you free time to answer any statements made against you. If there is an attack on you, the media should notify you and you shoul be allowed to answer on free time. McVeigh asked what an tratt was. Orsini wanted to know if your voting record was an attac . Chance said it wasn't because it was public record. Tillion felt that the only thing that would work \'\Tould be the requirem nt that 48 hours before closing time you could look at the ads th t mention your name. McVeigh said there would have to enough ti e to prepare a rebuttal that could appear in the same issue. This will be worked on further. Military HB-210 - Military Code. This adds a naval militia •. Chance HB 210 Code said it was a new arm::of the National Guard. Chance moved to put this bill out of committee. Hayden asked what was meant on page 4 with regard to the board. The members shall ( be--this is unclear. Is this medical or civilian? -90- ----------------------- Page 100----------------------- 3/ .12 Page 3 Tillion asked if he meant whether they were military physician HB 2lC ( or civilian physicians. Hayden wanted to know what the com- bination would be since there would be three. Tillion didn't Military think it was itvorth makin~ the change. Chance suggested to Code delete !tof a combination on Line 18, Page 4. It was decided to leave it as it was and act on Chance's motion. It was signed out unanimously liDo Pass". Bomb HB 290 - Threats of bombing. This bill had to do with a perso HB 29C Threats that reported a bomb in the Ketchikan School. They caught him but there is nothing they can do to him. There was nothing in the statutes. Chance said she would like to compare the lan- guagewith federal law. Malone did, too. Malone asked about word "threatens" on Line 11. How serious would this have to b . Tillion said the courts decide this. (Banfield left at 4:20 p m. ) Hayden will check the federal statute on this. Campaign Discussion returned to HB 257 - Campaign Limitations. Malone HB 257 Limitations asked if the $500 limitation for contributions in section (c) was very important if what we are trying to do it limit over- all expenditures. He said people would transfer funds through other people and defeat the purpose. McVeigh said it was true that you could get around this. He said there had been experi enees with th~s in the federal field. He said certainagencie could not make direct contributions such as banks because the federal statute which limits one source of funding to a can- didate;,to a certain amount, affects them. He said the oil com... ( panies and insurance companies in Alaska felt they could not risk this in Alaska. It seems to applyt~all"c&~didates whether federal or not. This has a tendency to cut dOi,.vn on campaign contributions. He said he "V-Tas supported by the liquor indus- try and collectively they contribute quite a bit, but this could limit them to $500. Chance said she had a problem with this section, too, about the language Tlor permit to be spent by a person on the candidate's behalf. II This \vould even exclude the campaign manager. Many times people volunteer to put an add in the paper for you. This would prohibit that. She suggested to delete that clause and leave the rest in. Malone said he was not in favor of this section. He said he would rather require a report of all contributions over $10. Tillion said if he put this in he would lose the bill. Malone said to forget that last proposal. McVeigh said if you limited this to $500 you wouldn't have formal campaign committees. The Governor would have to have say 500 campaign committees if they could only spend $500. Tillion said the purpose forthe bill is to get expeditures down. You can come up with the money for the media but who you get it from you can't prove anyway so letts not consider that. Chance moved to delete subsection (c). There was no objection. So ordered. ( Malone turned our attention to (b) in subsection 1. You have to file an affidavit saying you did not spend more than was allowed for your ~ampaign. v.Jhy not just include what the -91- ----------------------- Page 101----------------------- 3/12 Page 4 candidate spends and leave it at that. He suggested that HB 257 ( we delete expenditures on behalf of the candidate by some- , ..~ body else. Malone so moved. Chance asked if we should say'lfilentifytl instead of Ifstatingtl. Tillion would like Campaign to just give the total. Malone agreed with this. Malone's Limitations amendment was adopted. It now read If stating the amount of his". This is on Line 19, Page 1. Malone returned to section (a) and felt that we could amend this to be so much per head in the last general election. McVeigh said there was an official publication put out by the state that could be used. It breaks it down very specific ally. Malone asked if this was a limitation that applied to each election separately or total. McVeigh said it was total. Chance suggested that we just give a limit on the total campaigns. Hayden then asked about special elections. McVeigh moved to delete "special elections". Orsini objects. Malone doesn't want to specifically state how much the limi- tation would be for each election but would give a total amount so the candidate would have a choice. McVeigh said we could have it 50¢ for both primary and general. McVeigh wanted to strike ITspecial election campaigns ft because we are addressing this to local campaigns. He did not intend to limit statewide candidates. Tillion would like to include statewide, too, but "'le'did not "'Tant to lose the bill. Orsini felt if you used a combined figure for both elections, it would favor the incumbent. They all agreed that the incum- bent did have the advantage. McVeigh asked that a!committee:, substitute be prepared covering the various amendments adopted. There was no objection. So ordered. Malone turned back to paragraph (f), Line 10. He had some reservations on Ifby more than a reasonable amount It. Tillion' thought we should take that out. Chance said we already were going to adopt a penalty to see that they got a signature. This would apply to the person who placed the ad without the candidates signature as well as the media who accepted it. McVeigh said if that was the case then we had better put in a section saying that each candidate shall file with the Lieutenant Governor his designated campaign manager for the purposes of this act. Tillion felt that maybe we have to make it apply to the media only. The committee voted on the issue of combining the total to all elections. All voted Yes except Joe Orsini, who voted No. They also adopted the motion on (e) adopting the penalty of $500. Orsini moved ,to include statewide elections. McVeigh objected. The Gover- nor can't do it that way. He wanted to see how this bill 'TtJ'ould work then you may be able to include statewide at a later date. Tillion said the CS would be drafted and then brought before the committee again. Before we include statewide candidates, McVeigh thinks 't'le should talk to the Governor about it. Orsini wanted to cover the Governor and separate the primary and general elections. McVeigh moved to adjourn at 5:05 p.m. -92- ----------------------- Page 102----------------------- 3/14 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING ( Wednesday, March 14, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:40 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Orsini, Malone, Chance, and Kaden. Point The chairman said he would like to move HB-9 - Point System - HB 9 System out of committee. There were some philosophical questions on thiS, but it was decided to move it on without recommenda- tions. Malone so moved. There being no objection it was so ordered. Chance asked if we had reached agreement last time on the out-of-state citations. There was also the question about the way younger drivers were to be treated after they had reached a certain number of assessed points. (Banfield arrived at 3:45 p.m.) Banfield felt there should be a choice for the administration as to whether they will assess the points for out-of-state citations. Tillion said he would rather send the bill out as is without any changes. The tr bill was signed out as trno recommendation • (McVeigh arrived at 3: 50 p. m.. ) CSHB 205 - Safety glazing labels. This bill just got to this HB 205 (. committee but was worked over by the Commerce Committee. This says that when you buy your ovvn house there is no \'fay that the Safety contractor can put glass in that will shatter and cut. Chance Glazing said this was supported by the Safety Glass Council. This typ Labels of legislation has been passed in at least 20 states. ,The original bill stated that you would be prohibited from install ing glass that did not meet the requirements in hazardous plac s. This would not apply to the individual who is replacing some glass in his own home. He would not be liable under this bill The responsibility is placed with the importers, suppliers, and manufacturers of the glass. Mrs. Chance said that a great many of the accidents in the home for children under 15 were glass related injuries. Malone moved to pass this bill out with a "Do Pass ll • There was no objection. So ordered. Bomb HB-290 - False bombing threats. Hayden has checked the federa HB 29C Threats law. He read the information for committee members. Hayden felt that having such a major penalty might cause some prob- lems. Tillion asked if we should conform to the federal statu es. It was felt that we should make it as near to the federal as possible. Chance requested this be prepared as a CS. McVeigh felt vie should also provide a meaning for the word "threattI. That is a vague word. Chance noted that there were two sectio's to the bill and it would cover McVeigh's point. Hayden sugges ed a redraft of the federal provisions to include this problem. Something like IIwilfully makes any threat knowing. the same to be false. IT McVeigh suggested putting in uv1ilfully threaten fI • Chance felt to distinguish between someone doing something in jest we should say Itmaliciously.lt -93- ----------------------- Page 103----------------------- 3/14 Page 2 This makes it clear that there is malicious intent. Banfield HB 9 asked if this would cover a smoke bomb. Tillion felt the (!~, words in here covered this quite well. It was decided to add Point "incendiary device tl • Chance moved to have this prepared as System a CS. Orsini moved to pass the CS with a flDo Pass IT • This bill was signed out unanimously liDo Pass It. Campaign CSHB-257 - Campaign Limitations. The CS for this bill has CSHB Limi ta tions been prepared a!ld only needs the members t . approval. Hay~en 257 asked them to check subsection (a). He changed that a llttle. Malone wanted to express himself on expenditures. He felt it was much more important to have some kind of disclosure of monies for candidates. He thinks we should have some kihd of disclosure bill~ such as HB-20. He realized there would be abuses. This type of thing vvorks on the national level although there are some abuses. He wants to bring disclosure dOi,vn to the state level. He suggested adding this to the bil- we are putting out. Orsini said he did not want to put the two issues in one bill. Tillion said he couldn't vote for a disclosure bill. He said that Ted Kennedy admitted that he only declared 25% of his campaign contributions for the reaso that it just dried up the source of his contributions. This was especially those that contributed on both sides. It is too easy to get around. The only-sure way is to control the amount spent in the media. Mike Miller said if we think \ve are limiting campaign expendi ures ( I we were only kidding ourselves. There is no limitation on \~/ direct mailings. He also felt there should be no limit on TV. This is because you don't include the cost of putting your TV spot on the air. McVeigh said the bill's limitation is bette~ than 'we have now. It is simple and provable. Miller (M.) would rather see this stopped in the cow~ittee than go to the Floor this way. McVeigh moves the CS out of committee. This bill 'tvas signed out with individual recommendations. 'llillion and McVeigh signed IfDo Pass". (Banfield left at 4:25 p.m.) Orsini and Malone signed liDo Not Pass unless amended!!; Chanc and Banfield signed IINo Recommendation". UnauthorizedCSSB-146am - Unauthorized entry/cabins. Banfield asked to CSSB Entrv report on this bill. She said what prompted this bill was 146 Cabin~ a sad experience by a local ophthalmologiste He had gained am permission to use a Forest Service Cabin. He and his family were flown into the area and la ter that day a group of ro't'ldie moved right in with them. There was no way they could get out until the plane came to get them. This happens all the time and the Forest Service people say they need this legisla tion. Orsini asked about line 15 where it said you had to have consent in writing. Tillion said this wouldntt work very well for bush pilots often call in and ask if they can use his cabins. Tillion said there was a motion to move this bill out "Do Pass ". There was no objection. The bill 'was ('''-' signed out "Do Pass n • Tillion said we had SB-140am before us- Dni.form Probate Code. SB 140 Probate Code Hayden called to see what other changes would be necessary. am -94- ----------------------- Page 104----------------------- 3/14 Page 3 The new bill passed last year did not refer to the people ( that were performing under this law or give them continuing SB 140 authority they had under the old act. So they are being m included in this bill. Chance said there was also the pro- Probate vision that anybody whose estate was being probated under Code the old code would continue to completion under that act. Orsini said he wanted Hayden to tell the committee about the changes. Tillion said that Art Peterson will check into this and will discuss it with the committee at the next meeting. state Aid HB-157 - State Aid to Local Governments. This is Rep. Degnan' to Local area concept. He was here to discuss it with the committee. HB 157 Govt's He presented some prepared information--a fiscal note. This provides for an amendment to the Revenue Sharing Act to includ area differentials. Mr. Degnan said that the cost of doing business is different from one area or district to another. All this does is bring'\t into line according too, since they recognize a differential--Corps of Engineers. Tillion said this would mean a cut in the Anchorage and Fairbanks area. Malone figures this would probably be nearly $275,000 less to the City of Anchorage. Chance said if it was funded 100% it would take an additional 1/2 million dollars. (McVeigh left at 4:45 p.m.)b~Malone mentioned that federal monies under HR-l were going to distributed natimally v'lithout taking into account the cost of living differentials. This is being done under the one-man one-dollar type of distribution. Alaska get the smallest amount. This might be some influence on that pro - lem. Chance moved and asked unanimous consent to report this bill out of committee. It was discussed' further, particularly 1 with regard to cost of living study and who would perform thisi Malone will work on the draft for the next meeting. Chance withdrew her motion. Chance moved to adjourn at 4:55 p.m. -95- ----------------------- Page 105----------------------- 3/15 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE l-1EETING Thursday, March 15, 1973 ( \.~ Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:50 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Chance, Malone, Banfield, and Kaden. Licensing HB~33 - Licensing of Opticians. Banfield asked if Dr. Box HB 33 Opticians had been notified of this hearing. Tillion said we would not be taking final action on this today and that Dr. Box would be notified and given an opportunity tQ testify. Bomb The chairman gave committee members the CS for HB-290 - False CSHB Threats Bomb Threa ts '- to check over. This was agreeable to all and 290 it will go in this way. It was signed out at the previous meeting. The chairman invited. Dr. Fritz to testify on his bill but he Licensing deferred to Dr. Banholzer, Dr. Page, and Mr. Evans. Mr. Ban- HB 33 Opticians holzer, Juneau Ophthalmologist, testified in favor of this bill. He said this bill was patterned closely after the State of Washington's bill. Those in the eye care field feel this is the best law being used in all the states. The pur- pose of licensing these people is similar to licensing other professional people. This is to make sure that those practic- ing in the field are qualified and doing good work. 'There is a provision for those already in the field--a grandfather's clause. You can enter this field by study and testing. Ther- is also an apprenticeship and testing program. These are the three methods of receiving a license as an optician. He said that the main objections he had heard about this bill was the grandfather provision. He said he felt somewhat similar but everybody from no'Vv on is going to be licensed.. Opticians can under the auspices or direction of an optometrist fit contact lenses. The main objection seems to lie in this aspect of th bill. As it is now, in almost every state, anyone dispensing lenses have them ground by an optician. or someone "'lorking for an optician. Dr. Banholzer said that the way people now are trained in opticianry they have a rather lengthy training period in the fitting of contact lenses. He could see no reason that when working under the direction of an ophthalmol gist they can't do just as good a job as in any~other state. He has no objection to this bill. Tillion said he was sorry that the opiDmetrists had not been notified since they were in opposition to the bill. Some of them feel this is pretty well covered under federal law. They don't think there is any evidence of injury to the pub- lic now. Therefore, there is no need to restrict people from doing this. What is happening now that requires this bill? Dr. Banholzer said he didntt know what was happening in the I state. There may be people who do not dispense the correct \\.~ lenses. Very seldom would physical harm come to someone that was fitted with the wrong glasses. (McVeigh arrived 4:0 ) -96- ----------------------- Page 106----------------------- 3/15 Page 2 Banfield asked what type of training a person had to have HB ~3 ( before becoming an optician. Dr. Banholzer said they just had to hang out their shingle and go into business. Banfield Licensing asked what would be required of someone under this bill. Opticians Would all they have to do is work as an apprentice in some- body's office? Banholzer said this was correct or they could take a formal training program. For apprenticeship you take 6,000 hours of training. There are no such programs in Alask but they have them in the lower 48 and Seattle is the closest. Mr. Evans just completed 6,000 hours there. This training covers many facets. Banfield questioned the grandfather clau e because these people could train apprentices and then you wou d have more opticians that did not have the proper training. Then, again, an optician can take in a couple people for appr tices and they can immediately begin serving the public witho any training or knowledge. Page noted that they would still have to have an examination. Dr. Banholzer said the people who are administering the examination would find out their knowledge. Banfield said she meant when he began his appren- ticeship he would be serving the public and at that time he would not be required to take the test. The test would be taken after the three-year training period. Banholzer said this was the same as interns in a hospital. Chance asked about (12) on Page 6. What type of advertising is referred to. Fritz said he would give her: an example. He said there was an optician in Anchorage advertising 20% ( off on sumglasses. This i?really phony advertising. Tillion feels this is already covered in our statutes. Chance then asked what was meant by a "group contract". Fritz said it could be say a group of elderly Finnish people who come in off the street and make an agreement with an optician to grind their lenses. Chance asked if this would include group medical programs. Fritz said they could do this becaus the prescription would be sent to the optician from a proper doctor. Chance asked about the board being able to revoke a license because of the things listed. This is on Page 5. McVeigh noted that this would have to be done under APA. This would have to go before the hearing officer and this is repealable. This can then go to the circuit court. Ban- field said that because of the grandfather clause they cannot go back beyond that period of time. Chance then asked if you had to have a license to sell hearin aids. She felt there must be some opticians who sell these, too. If they did, ,then under this bill they would not qual- ify for a license because they would be practicing another healing art. Fritz didn't think this would be the case because hearing aids are also prescribed. It should not be" considered a different healing art. McVeigh noted that with the new modern hearing aids, they are many times installed into glass frames". Fritz said that if it was construed to ( prohibit the selling of hearing aids, then there would have to be some changes made in this proposed law. -97- ----------------------- Page 107----------------------- 3/15 Page 3 McVeigh suggested that we amend (14) to cover the problem of hearing aids and glasses. Perhaps it could be amended HB 33 to say !l any other of the healing arts not related to fabri- cation or fitting of lenses or contact lenses. If Malone felt that this bill meant what it said~--that it would prevent Licensing people from engaging in other segments of the healing arts. Opticians Page said this clause was derived from many areas where a person sets himself up as an herbologist, chiropractor, and an optician. This is to eliminate such types of paramedical types of treatment. Banfield asked if opticians would be allowed to fit contact lenses. Banholzer said they would because the Dr. sent the prescription and the optician just puts them in for the per- son. He said you would get a lot of patients that wouldn't come back no matter who did the fitting. Banfield said she 'tvas concerned: about this and felt that those doing the fit- ting should really know a lot about what they were doing because you only have one set of eyes. Banholzer said he didn't feel that an optician couldn't do this because he was getting the prescription from the doctor. Tillion noted that the optometrists seem to be quite opposed to this legis- lation. Chance asked how this would affect a village health aide or a physician's assistant. Sometimes these people. go out in the bush. She wanted to know~someone out in the villages could be helped with their contact lenses if the aide could not do this. Fritz said they wouldn't be able to do it. Tillion said that another objection was the apprenticeship program. Those with no training under the grandfather right c n get a license and then they can train apprentices. Page said that this bill would not allo\v promiscuous stamping out of contact lenses to the public. They cannot be made without a proper prescription. All of these are made by opticians but the prescribing doctor puts them on the patient. This way there is a control. Banfield asked Mr. Evans if he did this type of work. He said that in Seattle he worked under three ophthalmologists who had him do this for them. He said that if the examination was set up as in Washington that 50% of the examination related to contact lenses. Unless you are very kno~'lledgeable you cannot pass the exam. Dr. Page, Juneau ophthalmologist, testified in favor of this bill. He said MDfs were the only ones who could take care of a patient after damage had been done to the eye. Opticians can't prescribe and treat eye problems. The patient should go back to the one who wrote the prescription. He said they were trying to get some kind of control in their own ranks. Giving educational requirements and some rules would help a great deal. (Beirne and Orsini arrived at 4:35 p.m.) -98- ----------------------- Page 108----------------------- Page 4 Tillion said he was only concerned about the hearing aid and HB 33 eye glass problem. Banfield asked if we could look into this situation and see Licensing if we could accept six months' experience from a school in Opticians order for them to fit contact lenses. (Banfield left at 4: 40 p.m.) Dr. Fritz was the next to testify in favor of his bill. He said that he wanted it made clear that he had no connection with optician, hearing aid company, etc. He said he was fully experienced in the field of eye care~ He said an oculis and an ophthalmologist are the same thing. They send their prescriptions to the optician or optometrist to be filled. An optician is one who fits frames, constructs contact lenses., according to prescription, handles broken lenses, etc. Legally there is no reason why opticians cannot continue '\Iv-hat they are doing now. Therefore, this is a way in which to upgrade what they are already doing. He gave an example of an improper fit. He said he had attended a symposium on soft contact lenses. One person in that course was a sporting good salesman. He went back to Anchorage and began fitting contact lenses. Two days later Dr. Fritz got in on the case because problems developed and he had to try and give the girl some relief from the pain. He said it was necessary to learn about the physiology and anatomy of the eye before handling contact lenses. Further testimony will be taken on Wednesday, March ( 21, 1973. State Aid The chairman said that the CS for HB-157 - state Aid to Local to Local Governments - has been prepared. Tillion said what the CS HB 15....(- Govt's does is basically add in on Line 15 the area cost of living differential. This will be determined by election district. It substitutes that language for the original breakdown by percentages as shown. The spread between districts over the Anchorage base is subject to reduction as communications and other things become available in other parts of the state. This is based on the survey as determined annually under the law. Orsini asked if this was the state salary survey. Malon said it came from the Department of Personnel. They are requi ed to produce this study annually. The legislature would not ha to change this as needed, this will be done automatically as the survey shows. Orsini said he thought they were going to have the University of Alaska do this survey_ Beirne asked if there had been a fiscal study as to how much more or less it Vlould be. She l~JaS given a copy of the fiscal note. Tillio said it would be 1/2 million more.. Chance said Ted stevens said in the joint session that he needed this type of legis- lation. This will help them to get area differentials on the national level. Chance moved the CS for HB 157 out of committ e. It was signed out "Do pass'l by Chance, Malone, and Beirne. McVeigh and Orsini signed UNo recommendation tl • ( McVeigh moved to adjourn at 5:03 p.m. -99- ----------------------- Page 109----------------------- 3 21 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MI}IDTES OF THE MEETING Wednesday, March 21, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:35 p .• m.. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion and Kaden. Other members were in session on the budget. Licensing Mr. Tillion called this meeting in order to hea.r testimony HB 33 on House Bill No. 33 - optician Licensing. Present were Opticians Dr. BOX, Juneau Optometrist; Dr. Banholzer, Juneau Ophthal- mologist; Mr. Phil Lampert, Anchorage Optician; Mr. Russ Milligan, Anchorage Optician; Mr. Richard Kleinkopf, Fair- banks Optician~ Mr. Tillion said the most beneficial way to consider this bill was to have an interchange in tho~e testifying. Dr. Box is the only one present that is opposing the bill. The others were in favor of this legis- lation. Dr. Box had a prepared statement in opposition to the bill. He said it was unacceptable to allow anyone except an optometrist, ophthalmologist, or oculist to fit contact lenses. opticia.ns do not have to show proof of proficiency because of this legislation. He said that in earlier testi- mony the opticians indicated that this is a mechanical act; and it is not a mechanical process. It requires professional sk.ill and judgment. This is a type of skill you do not learn from being an apprentice. This takes academic training to acquire the type of skill and judgment needed. He said that seminars put on by contact lens companies is not the answer to learning how to fit lenses properly. Most of these are held to sell more of their product. Dr. Box said that in order to gain proficiency in the use of the necessary tools used to fit contact lenses you have to have ha.d some train- ing under the supervision of someone in the use of that instrument. You can't learn this in a one- ortT"ro-day semi- nar. You have to learn how this relates to visual function. Mr. Kleinkopf objected to his line of reasoning because the bill says the optician'~ill fit contact lenses in conjunction with an eye phYSician or an optometrist. Dr. Box said the bill didn't read this way_ Mr. Kleinkopf noted this isa proposed amendment. He said that in his office in Fairbanks the contacts are made in his office but the patient has paid for three return calls with the doctor. This cost is include in the charge for the contact lenses. This is to make sure there is no problem for the patient. Not everyone makes the return visits. Box said there would be no problem if the optician and the doctor worked in the same office. In that case you don't need a license because the doctor's license would cover both. -100- ----------------------- Page 110----------------------- 3/21 Page 2 Mr. Milligan said they wanted the ophthalmologist to be HB ?~ ( responsible to the public that \1aS why they said in the bill that he would supervise those doing the fitting. That is because not all doctors want to do the fitting themselves. Banholzer said that a doctor may not have enough contact lens Licensing business to warrant having an optician in his office doing Opticians this work so it is more convenient to send the work out to a qualified optician. That is the reason for having them licensed. Anyone can do it·now~ so felt there was need for some kind of qualifications~ etc., for licensing. Dr. Box said that was why he was opposed to this bill. The ones doing this business now will be licensed whether or not they are qualified. Banholzer said there were no standards now anywhere. Box said there was for ophtbalmologists and optome trists under the Board of examiners. They had to pass tests in this field. Mr~ Tillion was called over to ,the House to vote on the Hayden was left in charge of the discussion. Dr. Box said that there was a portion in the opticianry law that says opticians cannot do this work. The AGts office wontt prosecute. Optometrists can do this type of work. Mr. Lampert said that excluded ophthalmologists then. Dr. Box said that state law does not supersede the law on ophthal mologists or physicians so they would be included. The 6ptic·ans from Anchorage said that none of the eye doctors there or in ( Fairbanks either fit their o'tvn contact lenses. Dr. Banholzer \. said he did his own fitting and that most of those from the University of Oregon also did. Mr. Milligan felt this would develop a monopoly if only optometrists were allowed to fit contact lenses. Mr. Lampert presented his amendment. This was discussed at length. There was some discussion about the apprenticeship program. Also the provision that a person could have 10,000 hours of work in opticianry and he would be eligible to take the test. This is to cover those that are working in states that do not license opticians. There are more states that do not license them than do. Dr. Box felt there vTas need for clarification on """hat "good standing lf meant. Hayden said the board could define what this meant to them. They are limited by standards of reason- ableness. You cannot set up too much specificity because it is too limiting. Mr. Lampert asked Dr. Box if his main objection was with respect to contact lens. Dr. Box said this was true. Mr. ··~Lampertfelt there should be no problem with this because the amendment says the patient will be fully protected. The optician has to be working under the ophthalmologist or optometrist. Mr. Milligan said that this bill is. drav'1n up parallel to Washington state f sand it has been working well. Dr. Box asked for time to consult -101- ----------------------- Page 111----------------------- 3/21 Page 3 Licensing c: Optic. with his membership about the proposed paragraph (3) on the HB 33 10~000 hours. He will convey their desire on this to the ,~ committee. Meeting adjourned at 4:30 p.m. Tillion reconvened the meeting at 4:50 p.m. in the Assembly Apartments. Present were Malone~ Orsini, McVeigh, Tillion, and Kaden .. Probate Tillion asked for a motion to move the probate code out of SB 140 Code committee SB l40am. Orsini so moved. McVeigh said that am he had talked to the judges and this met their objections. This bill was signed out. A House Committee Substitute was put out for SB 140. Tillion Orsini, Malone~ and McVeigh Signed_IUDo pass!Y ;FBeirne signed fINo rec fl_. McVeigh will carry thlS bl I on the loor. Licensing McVeigh asked about HB-33 - Optician Licensing. Tillion HB 33 Opticians said we were going to prepare a CS to cover the amendments discussed earlier today. Narcotics SB-l08 .... Narcotics Enforcement Unit. This bill establishes SB 108 Enforce. a. narcotics and da.ngerous drugs enforcement unit. ~ve wa.nt Unit to amend this as our bill which said it was a Division of Narcotic Drugs Enforcement. We will make it identical. The chairman asked for a motion to sign this bill out. There was no objection. It was Signed out HDo Pass" unanimously. Mutual Sav .. SB-19l - Mutual Savings Banks/Investing in mortgages. Now SB 191 Banks they C(3,n loan up to 90 per cent of the assessed va.lue. This allows 95 per cent. Instead of having to have 10 per cent do't-'V'n this would allow 5 per cent down. There will be more houses built this way_ There was a motion to put this bill out and it was Signed out. (Beirne arrived at-5:00 .p.m.) Tillion? Malone., and Beirne signed TTDo Pass"; Orsini signed UNo rec r. . Malone moved to adjourn at 5:02 p.m. -102- ----------------------- Page 112----------------------- J/ CoCo HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING ( Thursday, March 22, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:50 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were McVeigh, Tillion, Malone, Beirne"a.nd Kaden. Evacuation HJR-51 - Emergency evacuation/Little Diomede. This is JR 51 Little to help those in difficult circumstances in this isolated Diomede area. McVeigh moved this resolution out with a "Do Pass" recommendation. It was signed unanimously "Do Passu .. Tillion said that he had talked with Mr_ Lampert on HB-33 Licensing Optician Licensing. He said they fill prescriptions for HB 33 Opticians the eye physician or the ophthalmologist. They have been doing this for 25 years under his supervision. McVeigh felt if we passed this bill we would be putting them into business. Mr. Lampert said that if you didn't regulate opticians--gave an example. The optometrists get a bad name. He said he felt he was the only licensed optician in the state. He is a member of the Contact Lens Associ- a~lon. You have to pass the qualification by federal standards_ Beirne said if there is such an organization reference should have been made to same in the bill. If you have a national organization you have something to tie standards to. Tillion told Beirne that we had already. ( put out a cs. Mr. Lampert said there was also a Masters Opticianry License. He didn't qualify because you have to have been in the business for 12 years. Beirne asked to have the changes outlined by Kaden. He read the changes. The grandfather clause provides that a person practicing for six months preceding the effective date of this chapter may get his license by paying the $50 fee. McVeigh said he felt the problem was on Page 2, Line 24. uA license shall be issued for (1) the dispensing of contact lenses". Haden said he added that so that it would show on the license. McVeigh asked where it said they had to go back to the ophthalmologist. Why does it say "may". Why not ttshall tf ? The committee agreed to this change. McVeigh moved this bill out with that one change and asked a "Do Pass Tt recommendation. It was signed out with individual recommend- ations. It was sent back \'1i thout recommendation. Beirne felt the opticians should look into the national organization .. Mandatory CSHB 105 - Mandatory sentences/felonies. This was drafted CSHB sentencing by someone in Judge Moody's office and Hayden redrafted it. 105 Tillion asked for a motion to put out the CS. There was no objection. Tillion signed "Do Pass"; Orsini signed uno rec"; Malone, Beirne, McVeigh and Banfield signed "Do Not Pass" .. ( Ombud. HB-15 - Ombudsman. Tillion asked if the committee wanted to Y 15 put this bill out_ McVeigh moved to hold this bill in committ c. Motion passed. This bill will be held. -103- ----------------------- Page 113----------------------- 3/22 Page 2 HR-2 - Reapportionment of the State House of Representatives. (_,"-/ Ti1lion said that if this can be passed on the Floor of the HR 2 House then it would be the will of the House. It is not Reapportion- necessarily satisfactory to members of the committee. Beirne ment for felt this would mean that representatives would run at large House again. Tillion said he would like to see the committee strike everything after "districts". Malone so moved. Beirne object d. She said she thought this would mean an area of similar econom·c~ etc. McVeigh felt this could be allover Anchorage. Malone said that was why he had made his motion. McVeigh thinks it should be a big area. He said he had very rich~conservative~ really poor, and reactionary types in his district. Tillion asked if they just wanted to put the resolution out as it is since it is better that what we have now. Tillion said that running overall makes more sense. The one that wins 51 per cent in the general, you just get certified. Malone removed his motion. Tillion asked for a motion to put this out. There was no objection. Beirne and McVeigh reported it back without recommendation. Tillion and Malone Signed "Do pass if' amended tI • McVeigh moved to adjourn at 4:30 p.m. -104- ----------------------- Page 114----------------------- 3/23 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING ( Friday, March 23, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 4:00 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Malone, Tillion, Banfield, Chance, and Kaden. Pay Raise HB-365 - Pay ra.ise for magistrates - was the first item or HB 365 Magistrates discussion. Tillion said this was an appropriation ror $59,724 to cover pay increases that these people were to have received in line with the statutes, but the court system did not give it to them. Malone said there was no pay scale or classification plan but that they were working on this and it should be prepared by next session. Now they are paid at different levels and he realized that there were inequities in this system. HeR-51 urges the court syste to complete their pay plan. Malone had checked with the AG's office and had received an opinion from them that indicated the salary increase should be the same as increases for state employees. He read from the AG's opinion. Malone said the AG told him there would be a financial problem if the Supreme Court was told to pay this and there wasn't enough money for it. That is why this bill was put in for consideration. He said he felt that it was the intent of the past legislatur s that the magistrates be granted these pay increases. t"'lalone said he wouldn't recommend this increase if he didn't know that the court system was preparing a pay scale and classifi- cation plan because there are so many inequities in the prese t system. Orsini asked "'That type of cases a magistrate would handle. Tillion said they handled fish and game violations, disturbing the peace, settle family fights, perform marriages and hold arraignments. Malone said they didn't handle feloni s. Chance moved the bill out of committee. Orsini objected. He asked to write a letter of intent to go in with the bill.' Th committee was agreeable to this suggestion and Malone and Ors·ni prepared a committee report to be submitted with the bill sh w- ing legislative intent. Orsini said the purpose of the commi tee report was to show that this pay raise is strictly an interim measure and we ~vant some sort of equitable pay rate schedule to be submitted. Orsini removed his objection and the bill 1-vas signed out tf Do Pass ft una.nimously. Corp./Native HB-383 - Corporations/Native Claims Settlement Act. There we eRB 38~ Claims Act some problems "VITi th the terminology and this was in reality a revisor's bill. The problem developed because the federal ac prevails over the state claims act. This might cut out some, corporations which are entitled to certain benefits under bot acts. This bill says that anything in this section or else- 1tlhere ca.nnot deprive a corporation organized under this act of its benefits.. Chance moved this bill out with a tlDo Pass" recommendation. There was an objection by Orsini, but he sai 'l, he would sign "No rec". All others signed it "Do Pass If .. HB-382 - Revisor's Bill. Banfield asked to hold this over un il Revisor's the committee had copies of this bill. Request was granted. HB 38': -105- ----------------------- Page 115----------------------- 3/23 Page 2 ( HCR-75 - Complete Utilization of Herring. Tillion explained HCR 75 i '~ how they got the eggs from herring in the past and that now Utiliza- they have a fillet machine. With this new machine they will tion of be able to save this herring instead of just dumping it into Herring the \vater. Tillion asked for a motion to put this resolutio out. There was no oqjection and it was signed out unanimousl "Do Passtf. 1AJaste of HB.... 242- Waste of food animals. This bill explains what parts food of wild game may be left in the field. Banfield moved to HB 242 animals put this bill out with a ttDo Pass t~ Chance questioned the word ffinnards u and felt is should be "entrails". Hayden checked the dictionary and found both words acceptable. The bill was signed out unanimously "Do Passft. . Monte CSHB-124 - Monte Carlo nights. Banfield moved and asked CSHB Carlo unanimous consent that this bill not be brought up. Tillion 124 objected. Banfield moved and asked to have this bill tabled. Nights Malone~ Orsini and Banfield voted for the tabling motion. Tillion and Chance voted against it. Motion carried. This bill is tabled. SB-47am - Income Tax/Senior citizens. Banfield said that Income Tax/ SB 47 Senior Cit. the state has to take up the loss to the local entity when am an exemption is granted to a senior citizen. The people file their income tax return with the borough and then it is determined whether or not they are eligible. She gave a local example. Tillion felt all senior citizens should be included no matter what their income. Chance said we should remember that it is only for those who apply. Orsini said there should be no problem with the state coming up with income amounts instantly with the new computers they now have. Orsini asked if this was an amendment to the basic statute. The basic statute says they are exempt for $250 for property tax if they apply_ Malone didn't like to include theirinco He thinks they should all be eligible and gave the Kenai Borough as an example. He said most people 'who had an adequa e income went ahead and paid their taxes. Banfield said she ha tried to get this thing worked out to be more agreeable. Tillion instructed Hayden to prepare a CS for this SB 47 to delete reference to income. Hayden asked what effective date should be put in. Tillion said it would take effect as other bills--90 days after the Governor's signature. The Committee agreed with this. Approp. for SB-I07am - Appropriation for Division of Narcotic Drugs. SB 107 Narcotics We passed the other bill out already. Banfield moved this am Division bill out and asked Hayden to prepare a CS to make it the sa.me as our CS on SB-IOS. This bi.ll was signed out "Do Pass ft by all present. (,.,__ Pari- CSHB-23 - Pari-mutuel betting. This was for horse raCing 'Mutuel and sled dog racing only during fairs. Malone moved this CSHB 23 Betting bill out v-li thout recommendation. All agreed to sending the bill out except for Orsini who had tiNa recommendation". Meeting adjourned at 5:05 p.m. -106- ----------------------- Page 116----------------------- 3/27 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING ( Tuesday, March 27, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:43 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Banfield, Orsini, Malone, McVeigh, Kaden and Art Peterson. Eminent McVeigh asked if the committee could take up HB-331 - HB 381 Domain Eminent Domain- which allowed the taking of or obtaining land for buildings. Tillion said that Mr. Peterson was here to discuss the Revisor's revisor's bill - HB 382. Tnis was the first item of con- HB 382 Bill sideration. Mr. Peterson went through the revisor's bill item by item. Tillion asked if there were any substantive changes. He said he didn't think there were. (Chance arrived at 3:46 p.m.) The only item the committee did not agree to was Section 28, VJhich they deleted and had a CS prepared to cover this. (Beirne arrived at 3:50 p.m .. ) Section 28 changes the voting durational residence require- ment and specifies a 3D-day period in line with the Alaska Supreme Court. decision in the Van Dort case last November 3. McVeigh questioned this. Mr. Peterson said that the 75-day requirement was invalid by this decision. Near the end of their ruling the court refers to the maximum of 30-day period They said this was all that was permissible. It relates to our registration requirements and how long it takes to do that. Tillion asked about the federal case. Art said that the 50-day residence requirements were upheld because of the complicating factors which justify exceeding the 30 days. The court did not overrule or say they were wrong. He said there were two·factors here: We use a volunteer registration system and ! \ because of the mistakes that might be made they neededt~me to correct them. The second thing was that in Alaska there was a fall primary and because of this the registrar and the officials have to interrupt the process of registration in order to handle the fall primary. Malone felt we could argue for more than 30 days. Tillion felt that Nevada would probably set an even greater spread of time. Art made reference to the Burns vs. Fortson case where the United States Supreme Court said a 50-day registrationapproac es the outer constitutional limit. He said if Nevada got more than that they vvould have to argue and put up a good case bef'o e it would go through. McVeigh asked if' he understood the ruling properly. ~That they allow is a limitation to permit administr - tive procedures of the state to register voters be carried out It would then be left up to the states depending upon their system for registration. McVeigh said that Alaska registratio could be considered fairly efficient so you could argue that ( -107- ----------------------- Page 117----------------------- 3/27 Page 2 ( 30 days would be the out~r limit. Tillion felt we should HB 382 h, leave the statute as is. Banfield moved to delete section '-- Revisor's 28 and have a revisor's statute next year to cover what Bill other decisions come out thjs year. Malone said that residency was determined~oreby intent than anything else. He didn't feel that 30 days was long enough to show intent of making this your residence. Question 't'las called on the motion and motion carried. Section 28 was deleted. Section 40. Art 'said this repeals a statute providing for the postponement of court proceedings--decided March 5 of this year. McVeigh asked for a copy of that opinion. Art said that in the opinion they referred to some other thing tha.t provided a 2/3 vote to change the court rules. He said we need two things: 2/3 vote and the express intent to change the court rules. McVeigh said the court has in effect overruled the legislature on this point. Hayden was requested to prepare a bill to cover this pOint. Tillio felt that we should repeal Court Rule 40 but Banfield and McVeigh objected. They felt this rule covered more than the problem we were discussing. Hayden will draft a bill. Tillion said that a Judiciary CS would be prepared for HB-382 and recommended that the CS tt Do Passu. The bill was signed out unanimously Tt Do Pass". / ( I HB-70 - Relating to adoption - was the next subject for HB 70 \,~ Relating discussion. Chance said that Doug Gregg, with the Juneau to Bar Association, had worked with the committee of Kay Smith Adoption that drafted this bill. She asked if the committee would like to have him here to anS\ver their questions. Chance proceeded to give the history of this bill and stated that as of now, there is no child adoption statute. Mrs. Smith said there was some objection as to how the evaluations will be done. Other than that, she did not think there was any objection to this bill. Malone noted that the court would be able to appoint whomeverthey choose to make the eva.luation. Mrs. Smith said this was based on the model adoption code. This had received the approval of the American Bar Associatio . Banfield asked about minors adopting children. It was explai ed that this was to cover adoption of native children in their own villages. Sometimes they have sisters or brothers who can take them in rather than sending them to foster homes. Chance said this would have to be done after a court appointe evaluation. The children need the protection and benefits of being adopted. Mrs. Smith said that Alaska Legal Services has been working hard to inform people about the benefits tha come to them from legal 'adoption. Chance said that when she asked these people to adopt the proposed uniform adoption code they formed a subcornmi ttee. f \ At the same time, she was checking through the federal \'~ arrangements to see if this would interrupt benefits such as social security benefits. The people she talked to endorsed this and think \ve should have legalized adoption. -108- ----------------------- Page 118----------------------- :11 c.. C Page 3 Mrs. Smith said that the native children through the adoption HB 70 ( procedure would not lose their benefits under the native land Relating claims act. McVeigh said he had a case right now that a law to such as this would be good. There is a mother and father that are divorced, father dies, child goes to the parents of Adoption the deceased father, mother disappears, - present law says that he has to find the mother, but this law would allow the father's parents to adopt his children. McVeigh moves this bill out rtDo Pass It. Banfield obj ects in order to conside'r the contents of this bill more closely. Mrs. Smith said the Dr. McKay came in when discussing this proposed legis- lation to answer ques tions ~vi th regard to subsidizing the adoptions in some cases. This is a form of adoption assist- ance where if the help was not given the child would have no home and the people themselves really want to keep the child but because of the rise in cost of living or other emergency in their immediate family they cannot afford to keep the chil • This relates to persons in the permanent custody of social services only. This will, in the longrun be less expensive to the state than providing institutional care. At this time this probably only refers to about 15 or 20 children in the state. Tillion felt that you would be attracting people to this adoption program who really only. wanted the additional money_ Mrs. Smith read from her position paper--giving an example. The subsidy is very limited. Malone said this is a far preferable treatment of the child than putting them ( into an institution. Banfield said she objected to the department setting' up regulations for this program since she is an adoptive parent and knoWBwhat she had to go throug . Action was taken on the motion by McVeigh. Tillion, Malone, Chance, and McVeigh signed "Do Pass" Orsini signed "No recIte HB-161 - Eye glasses.. Malone asked if the tests required in 6 Eye this bill were done in the State of Alaska or in the offices HB I 1 Glasses of the opticians. (Banfield left at 4:45 p.m.) Tillion said this was federal law and is a standard test. He said that all optical shops had the where withal. to perform these tests Mr. Magnusson said that this repeals current statutes which are no longer necessary with the adoption of this bill. Malone moves this bill out !fDo Pass!' and asks unanimous con- sent. Everyone signed "Do Pass". HB-335 - Ownership of real property/aliens. McVeigh felt tha HE" 335 Oi/llnership an alien could own an Alaska corporation and get around this. Property/ Tillion said there had to be at least 50 per cent of the owne s Nonresidents of an Alaska corporation who have to be Alaskans. Chance sai this was on Page 2, Line 7. There was some discussion as to whether this would violate any of the laws on interstate com- merce. Orsini asked what federal statutes covered this prob- lem. Hayden said there were a number of cases dealing with the Japanese and similar statutes were tried. Some states have these types of provisions--just as long as they don't discriminate against the kind of alien. Some state courts and lOv'ler federal courts have upheld the validi ty of this type of legislation. -109- ----------------------- Page 119----------------------- 2 3/ 7. Page 4 The United states Supreme Court has not ruled on this point HB 335 ( particularly. This is drawn different from the U.S. equal protection laws. Thi.s extends the privilege of immunity to Ownership citizens. Tillion didn't think this was a violation. Hayden Property/ felt that it was a close question. Other states have laws Nonresidents that are similar. Malone said that this limited corporations just as to nonresident aliens. Those that engage in mineral or other resources of the state are exempt from this section of this chapter. Tillion said that was to cover British' Petroleum. Malone objected because natural resources covers land. McVeigh-felt this was a restraint on alienation of real property. In common law you can~ do that. In the past we started out with all of these landed aristocracies. We broke all that up under English lav". This country carried this over into common law. You cannot restrict real property Malone said he would like his question answered relative to lands being considered natural resources. He asked what would be done with those aliens who presently own land, 'tfThat about them? This is on Page 1, Line 13. Does this divest them of their property? Tillion said you could give them a reasonable amount of time to dispose of their property Malone then wanted to know if the state would then be in a. position to condemn their property and have to make restituti n. 'Tillion asked what states have laws similar to this. Hayden said he thought Nebraska had one. He said that one of the people in his office had researched this and wanted to kno"" if they "tV'anted him to come over and answer questions for the . committee. Orsini asked what would be the' case of some of these people had interests around the state. Hayden said he thought this was intended to except them. There seems to be some problem with this, though. Randy Berry drafted this. Malone had a question on Page 1, Lines 17 and 18. Here it says that interests in real property conveyed in violation of this section shall revert to the state. That seems to mean confiscatory powers. Why to the state and not the' last ow·ner 'tAlho is a citizen or resident of the state? Chance asked if this meant that people working for Japanese Timber or British Petroleum couldnft buy homes in Anchorage. She meant Japanese and British people who were not citizens of the Uni ted States. Tillion saidv)tJ.ould check further into this legislation. Licensing HB-128 - Licensing of Group Homes. Hayden said this provides Group homes for 10 or less children in a group situation "t'li th HB 12E Homes family style living. Tillion sa~d that this would allow a larger number of children in a home without it having. to be run as an institution. Chance said' that a lot of young people when theyreach the teenage years are unable to be placed in foster homes. Homes are usually not avail- a.ble for this age and many times the teenager c.annot adjust to living in a foster home on a one toone basis. They can relate where 10 or less can live together with their peers. -110- ----------------------- Page 120----------------------- 3/27 Page 5 Malone sa.id he had one problem 11ith this bill and tha twas ( the definition of "group horne". He had talked with the HB 128 Commissioner and he didn't get a clear answer of what a Licensing group home vTould be. Chance said that you have institutions Group and foster homes with nothing in between. This would serve Homes a need. Chance sa.id that she asked Welfare if they could license group homes and they said they could do it by. regu- lation. They have done this but the AG informed them this year that they couldn't do this by regulation. They said it had to be recognized by statute and that is the reason for this bill .. Malone commented on, (5) on Page 1. This provides that the department can delegate the evaluation and licen~ing to the boroughs. This is one of the key features of this bill· and this is at the discretion of the department. Chance moved to pass this bill out of committee .. Orsini objected. Orsini felt that you might have some liberal-minded individ- uals vlithin the department who might license a home having one adult and the rest being 16 year aIds. Malone agreed that the foster home concept had been abused. It is not always the fault of the department. Chance said that a group home could have up to 10 but that if a number were handicapped that 6 would be all you could handle. Chance said we have group homes for adults that are mentally retarde . They have been taught skills and live together \1i th house ( parents. There are group homes for smaller children that are coming into the treatment center throughout the state. Some of these children are blind. Chance repeated her motion to move this bill out of committee. Malone, Chance, and McVeigh voted "Do PassT!; Tillion and Orsini voted "No rec Tf • HB-285 - Definition of Medical and Legal Death. Malone Definition requested testimony from different religious viewpoints HB 285 Legal before taking this bill to the floor. Chance said there Death 'tvas a posi tion taken by the Catholic Church recently relating to this subject. They approved this since this is not euthanasia. Page 1, Lines 12 and 13 says Hbased on ordinary standards of medical practice tf • How ""'Tould you decide what that was. Besides medical practices change as time goes on. Also, how do you determine "spontaneous brain function"? Chance said that the purpose was so they could use parts of the body for transplants. Under existing law they have to stop the machine that pumps blood through the body before they can declare you dead and now they have to be able to remove body organs before the blood is stopped. McVeigh suggested that we study-this further. Driving HI HB-319 ~ Driving while under the influence. This says you HB 31~ have to have red license plates if you are caught driving while under the influence. You don't have to use these' (' plates more than one year. Ti1lion said he would accept a motion to put this bill out. Malone moved the bill out with individual recommendations. Tillion Signed !fDa Pass"; -111- ----------------------- Page 121----------------------- 3/27 Page 6 ( Malone, Orsini, and Chance signed °No recti; and McVeigh \,-" signed !f Do Not Pass". SB-47am - Senior Citizens' property tax exemption. Hayden Income Tax/ has prepared the CS which deletes the reference to income SB 47 Senior entirely. Malone moved it out "Do Passu. It was signed am Citizens out with,HCS for SB 47, a unanimous "Do Pass". HB 375 - Compensation of Judicial Officers. Orsini said Compensation this sets up a judicial compensation commission similar to HB 375 Commission/ that set up in federal government. Chance felt they would' Judicial amend this on the floor to include the legislature. Chance Officers said the commission reviews the pay and makes recommendations. Then if the legislature doesn't disapprove their recommenda- tions, it takes effect within 30 days from that time. Chance moved to adjourn at 5:35 p.m. I I \ I \~, -112- ----------------------- Page 122----------------------- 3/29 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING ( Thursday.., March 29, 1973 Meeting was called to order at 4:00 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartment by Chairman Tillion. Present were Banfiel .., Tillion, Orsini, Beirne.., McVeigh and Kaden. Criminal The committee listened to a presentation by Carolyn Burg Justice relative to the criminal justice information system. She Information said she objected to persons not having criminal records Systems being placed in the information system. This information is being gathered statewide.., interstate, and nationally. She said she was alleging that this was unconstitutional because tax dollars were being spent for computers and large staffs, nationwide, to monitor lawful citizens, which is a contravention of the Constitution of the United states'- She also said that she felt that all wiretapping was uncon- stitutional. McVeigh said something like this has to be declared unconstitutional through the courts. Until that time it is still considered constitutional. Mrs. Burg ma.de mention that the people of Alaska last year voted by approximately 80 percent of our populace to amend the Alaska State Constitution so they could be left alone. Although it might not be constit~tional, but it shows the intent of the people. In her research she discovered that it appears the citizens of Alaska in order to be citizens of the United States, have to resort to being citizens of Oregon before-they can claim a Fourth Amendment right under the Constitution of the United states. Mrs. Burg showed that the information system was very discriminatory since it lists fishermen but not nonfisher- men, hunters but not nonhunters, cardrivers but not noncar drivers, etc. She felt that some type of investigation should be made into the collecting of information in our state. The chairman explained that the committee could only investigate in certain areas and if we have a bill on this subject then we can investigate further. Otherwise the committee is limited in its investigatory powers. She said the right of privacy to a person is a precious right. She wants to see this maintained in this state. She presented a copy of her presentation to all committee members. She thanked the committee for hearing her views. Mrs. Burg also made another point showing a list of names of people who objected to their names being in the AJIS. She said that a policeman could not search anyone he wanted on the street, they had to be unlawful in some manner. This system does not require that you be unlawful. It puts every- ( one in the system. Banfield said we picked our jurors out of computers and needed the names to be made available. -113- ----------------------- Page 123----------------------- 3/28 Page 2 Mr. Tillion said the only thing i.!fe can do now is to be made C aware of the situation and if some legislation does come to this committee further action could be taken. Mrs. Banfield '''-Grim. noted that it was obvious that Mrs. Burg had put a lot of Jus. Inf. hard work on this subject. Tillion said we would put this System information in our files and when bills are referred to us on this subject ~Te can work from that point. Representative Beirne requested that Mr. Sedgewick be allowed HeR 79 VD Month to testify on a resolution in this committee. This was HCR-7 Venereal Disease Awareness Month. Mr. Sedgewick represents the State Pharmaceutical Association. He said he was in favo of this resolution because it seems that everyone sticks thei head in the sand when it comes to venereal disease. He said his organization could not get this information disseminated among the public without such a resolution. Mr. Sedgewick said there is a National VD Awareness Month and they are coordinating their activities to correspond with national efforts to get va information to the people. Tillion asked if there would be clinics set up for detection of VD. Mr. Sedgewick said that this was strictly an information program and that detection centers were already operating throughout the state. Banfield moves this resolution out of committee with a ftDo Pass" recommendation.. Orsini objected until he could read the resolution. Orsini removed his objection and the resolution was signed out HDo Passu except for Tillion 'tvho Signed ITNo rec II • c"-/ The committee asked Hayden to draft a CS for HE 381 - Eminent CSHB Eminent Domain - and to make this apply to home rule cities 'Nith 381 Domain population over 50,000. Meeting adjourned at 4:25 p.m. -114- ----------------------- Page 124----------------------- '/ '-- .... HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE ( MINUTES OF THE MEETING Monday, April 2, 1973 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 4:05 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Chance, Tillion, Orsini, Malone, Beirne, and Kaden. Boundary HB-232 - Relating to district of the superior courts. HB 232 Change/ Mr. Ferguson was here to testify in favor of this legis- District lation. Tillion said he had the fiscal note and that Court it really had no significance because it would not cost any additional money. This bill changes-the lines of a district. Rep_ Ferguson said this bill would authorize Barter Island in the North Slope area to be included with the second judicial district that runs from Unalakleet to Prudhoe Ba.y_ In 1959 the judicial arrangement put it in with Fairbanks. The districts ran the way transporta.tion was running at the time . With the system the 't-vay it is and the ne't'J" ruling last year, people would have to have juries of their peers. The' cost ran up quite high and it is also costly for those people to go into Fairbanks for trials or to bring their witnesses in for testimony. He said he was attempting to put in a portion of the district that comprises Prudhoe Bay on the Barter Island side. He originally wanted to create a fifth judicial district but ( it was felt there wasn't a cha.nce of getting this through. \ This is to eliminate the problem of persons having to come through one city to get to another where they can have their trial. Malone requested a map to be shown the bound- aries. Mr. Ferguson went over to the Capitol to get one. Beirne asked whether the magistrate would remain the same. Mr. Ferguson said there would be no changes in the system but just in the boundary. Tillion noted that the 't-vhole boundary system needed to be changed but this ~lould help in the meantime. Beirne mentioned that Rep_ Guy was inter- ested in having the same type of thing done for Bethel and asked if it should be done at this time. Orsini objected because it would be creating a fifth judicial district. Chance asked \vhy it vJould cost money for Guy's bill and not for this one. Ferguson said because it was just a realignment and not a new district. He said he had a bill in establishing a fifth district and it will cost $155,000. The Second Judicial District is already set up so it will only add this little area to it. There will be no additional cost. Beirne moved to put this bill out with a IfDo Pass tf • Chance asked if we could put Bethel in this bill, too. Tillion thinks we should not do it at this late date. Malone wanted to see the map before final action so the committee went on to HB-93 - Computation of Interest - and will return to this when '\ATe have a copy of the map. Computation HB-93 - Computation of Interest. Hayden has prepared a CS CSHB of Interest for this bill and Orsini 'tvill explain it to committee member. 93 -115- ----------------------- Page 125----------------------- 4/2 Page 2 ( This is the 365-day year bill of Rep_ Fink's. Orsini moved CSHB '~mputation the CS out flDo Pass If. The committee wanted a more detailed' of Interest discussion. Orsini said that interest is basically rent 93 paid on the use of money. This bill defines the terms of the rental. This uses the 365-day year rather than the 360-day year. ~'li th computers this is no problem. It confines the effective rate of interest to that stated in the contract. The second part defines what a month is. Malone objected to this because when you have a fraction of a month it is 1/30 and when it is a fraction of a year it is 1/365. There seems to be a contradiction. Orsini explained that it depended upon your contract--whether it was for a month or a year. Then the interest would be figured accordingly. Action was taken on Orsini's motion and the bill was signed out. Tillion, Beirne, and Orsini signed "Do Pass"; Chance voted "No rec It;. and Malone voted "Do Not Pass unless amended lf • Mechanics' SB-134am - Mechanics' and Materialmen t s liens. The House SB 134 and Mater. Labor and Mana:gement Committee has rew:ritten the bill and it am Lien changes the Senate Bill only in that area requiring a bond .. This makes is so that the primary contractor on a construc- tion' job would have to carry a bond for that certain period of time past the notice of completion. In the past, people have paid the contractors for building a house and then (: maybe a year later they will have a lien placed against \~' their house because a subcontractor hasntt been paid for his work on their house. It makes no difference that they have paid the original prime contractor in full. Orsini said he didn't think that a. good reliable contractor would object to this bill. Chance moved that we substitute CSHB 256 for SB 134am and put this out as the CS for Judiciary Committee. She asked unanimous consent. There was no. objection. There was further discussion as to how long the subcontractor had in order to render his bill. This bill says he must present his bill before 90 days have passed after the filing of a certificate of completion. If the person builds his own house then he would have to file the certificate of completion. Malone said filing this certifica e would make more work for the attorneys. The average person isn't going to know how to post or record these notices of completion. This has to be done within 10 days after comple- tion and then there is a list of things that have to have bee completed. Ti11ion felt this \'fas better than being billed for something you had already paid for. It isa protection of sorts. Malone thought there may be instances where 90 day wouldn't be long enough to get a bill sent out for services. Tillion said in that case they could go to court and show cau e and undoubtedly would win their case. Beirne moved this bill out of cornmittee. The bill VIas signed out with liDo Passu for the RCS by Tillion, Malone, Orsini, and Beirne. Chance signe TtNo rec.t! -116- ----------------------- Page 126----------------------- 4/2 Page 3 ( Rep. Ferguson brought a map and explained to the committee HE Boundary the changes that t"1ould be made. The corumi ttee was ready Change/ to vote now and signed this bill out (HB 23 2 ) !fDo Passu Dst. Crt. unanimously. Eminent HB-381 - Eminent Domain. Hayden has prepared the CS to CSHB Domain cover home rule cities with populations over 50,000. 381 Chance wanted to know if there were that many people in Anchorage. Tillion said there was about 74,000. Tillion said he would like to put an effective dat~ on the'time of taking property in this manner. Malone said that this bill mentioned Public Law No. 646 and he 'V'lould like a chance to check into this. After he checked into the public law on credit unions he discovered a lot of things were covered under it. He wanted to hold the bill until tomorrow. 'Tilli n said he should check into the law and have his comments read;} for use on the Floor. Chance said that the City Attorney fo Anchorage states that the constitution says something about any of the government entities can contract to perform or provide this function for the other government entity. Malo e disagreed with her and said there wasa..-case that was ruled to the contrary. The case 1-vas in Juneau. That case stated tha unless there was a specific granting of authority it belonge only with the state. Tillion said he would like to see a tw - year expiration date added to this CS. Malone agreed with ( this and felt it should lapse on June 30, 1975. This bill \, will go out with individual recom~endation. The expiration date will be added by Hayden before it is submitted. Tillio' and Malone signed "Do Not Pass"; Orsini signed it "Do Passu; and Beirne Signed "No recommendation tT • Malone will review the public law mentioned in the bill. Alcohol Beirne asked to consider HS-398 - Relating to the Uniform HB 398 Treatment Alcoholism and Intoxicating Treatment Act. She said this Act legislation was necessary so they could pick up the drunks off the street instead of letting them freeze to death. This makes sure that the grants will go to the local areas. Malone agreed that this was a problem in his area. Tillion says this gives the authorities the right to pick them up without booking them. Beirne said this was true only if there was no facility available in their area. Chance said this was created because of losing Title IV funds. Beirne moves this bill out "Do Pass". Bill was signed out unanimou lye Meeting adjourned at 5:07 p.m. -117- ----------------------- Page 127----------------------- 4/5 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING ( Thursday, April 5, 1973 ~ Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 11:45 a.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Beirne, Tillion, Malone, Chance, Banfield, McVeigh, Orsini, and Kaden. Disorderly The first item of consideration was HB 391 - Disorderly Con- HB 391 Conduct duct. Banfield said she thought this was the same as what the Senate had passed this morning except they changed $l~OOO to $300. McVeigh felt this was too~}l inclusive. Banfield agreed and said it was very poorly:~~' Hayden said this came from the AG's office so it should be acceptable. Malone asked if we couldn't recommend that this go to Legislative Council for an interim study. Hayden said he felt that any disorderly conduct statute was unconstitutional but this was an attempt to make it so definite that they could meet the objections they might find in the courts. Chance felt that this needed a lot more work. Hayden said the reason for this type of bill was to allow the policeman to break up a party in a private home. Banfield said that (2) and (4) vvere acceptable but the others should be rewritten. Ti11ion said there was a need for a disorderly conduct statute. He said he would hold this bill over until next year reluctantly .. He felt that maybe the Senate Bill l'lould be better written than this one. '~ Sale of SJR-12am - Relating to the sale of timber on Afognak Island. SJR 12 Timber Banfield thought this issue was already closed. Til1ion am said he got a request to put this resolution out. He didntt think they had canceled the lease.. Chance moved this reso1ut·on out of committee. There was no objection but Banfield propos d an amendment to add Don Young to the list of names. Hayden prepared the amendment deleting on Page 2, Line 9: flu.s. Senators lt and adding fland the Honorable Don Young". Tillion, Malone, and McVeigh signed !fDo Pass with attaC'hed amendment tl ; Banfield, Chance, and Orsini signed "No recti. Real Estate HB 248 - Real Estate Surety Fund. Tillion said that instead HB 248 Surety Fund of paying the bond companies the state will get the money. The reason for this is that there has never been a claim made. The maximum amount is $5,000 and you have $100,000 in the fun '. Any overage would go into the general fund instead of to the surety companies. Tillion said if it didn't have the $5,000 limit he would be opposed to it. Hr. Eastaugh is opposed to the bill. He is representing the bond companies and they are opposed to this. Tillion said there was one other point- that is they may make use of $50,000 for educational purposes such as brochures to inform the public or those involved. Banfield asked if it was limited to those purposes. Tillion said that the real estate brokers "'ranted it. They wanted to save a lot of money, but we felt that the state should benefi ' and said the overage ~]ould go into the general fund. -118 ----------------------- Page 128----------------------- 4/5 Page 2 F '"'al Es tate Banfield wanted to know if the public would be adequately HB 248 ( protected. Tillion said this did not change existing law '. rety Fund except that the state will get this money instead of the bond broker. Banfield felt that maybe the law should be changed in how it dealt with real estate swindlers. Tillion said you could still get him on criminal penalties. Malone reports this bill out of committee with individual recommend- ations. Banfield and Orsini objected. Banfield wanted to know how much money you paid for a $5,000 bond. McVeigh thought it couldn't be less than $50. Malone said he thought it was more than that now. This money goes outside of the state, probably to some Seattle brokers. Malone said the state could collect interest of these monies, too, instea of the bonding companies. Chance said she felt the same as Banfield. How do we know about the money that may be appropriated for educational purposes. Tillion said this would be controlled by the legislature because they have to pass this as an appropriation before it can be used. Orsini said he had a free conference committee and asked to be excused. (Orsini left at 12:05 p.m.) It was determined that the court could not direct the Commissioner to take this money out, so it is properly administered. Tillion said that if a person had a claim they would have to wait until the next legislative session to process their claim. This is common policy in state disbursements. McVeigh said (. they do this in one bill to cover all such claims by approp- riation. He said he thought the AG's office had a fund that paid small claims but all others were paid out of the approp- riations bills that are put through the legislature. Tillion said there was one difference because private bonding companies screen the people more thoroughly, but the state has not had one claim. Malone said he was in favor of the concept. Banfield made mention of the $5,000 bond and thinks this should be raised to $10,000. Tillion said this would require hearings. Malone said that generally if you have a real estate license you are very careful of losing it, so you don't make these kinds of mistakes. Hayden checked the statutes and found that $5,000 was required for a bond now. Malone moved this bill out again with individual recommenda- tions. Tillion, Malone, Beirne, Chance all signed "Do Passu for CSHB-248. McVeigh and Banfield signed rlno rec lt • Maternity CSHB-113 - Relating to maternity leave. This bill w"as CSHB Leave discussed briefly and Malone moved it out of committee. 113 Bill \'Jas signed out "Do Pass H by Tillion, Malone, Beirne, Chance, McVeigh, and Banfield. Definition HB 285 - Definition of medical and legal death. After a . HB 285 breif discussion Chance moved this bill out of committee. Death Tillion, Chancey and Beirne signed "Do Passffj Banfield and ( McVeigh signed 'No rec". Prayer in HJR 55- Prayer in school. Banfield and Beirne asked for HJR 55 School consideration of this next year. -119- ----------------------- Page 129----------------------- 4/5 Page 3 ( "tpone- HB-412 - Postponement of civil proceedings when in the HB 412 b-:.:'lt of legislature. McVeigh explained that this bill allowed proceed. anyone in the legislature,~9 have their court proceedings Legis. postponed untj_l a certain~a'fter the legislature is out of session. In a recent decision they said this was uncon-' stitutional because of Court Rule 40(f) and said that it took precedent over our statute. We want to put this in and get it by a 2/3 vote this time. Tillion said he was ready for a .motion to move this bill out. Tillion, Malone, Chancer McVei~h, and Banfield voted "Do Pass Tl • Beirne voted rNo rec . I Interest H~ 22 - Re~esting Congress to adopt legislation relati~ IHJR 22 to interest rates. Banfield asked if we should have federalt Rates/ regulations. McVeigh said that was vlhat we have now and I Request Congress this would make it the same in all the states. It apparentlt would solve some of the money problems that Alaska is having! now. I II McVeigh moved to adjourn at 12:30 p.m. 11 -120- ----------------------- Page 130----------------------- ~PEC\AL ~90N """"-.-' ----------------------- Page 131----------------------- The House Judiciary Committee was called to order by Chairman Tillion at 2:10 p.m. in-the House Chambers on the 21st. of October. Members present were Til1ion, Malone, Chance, McVeig~, Banfield, Beirne, and Orsini. The Chairman stated that the committee would be considering House Bill No. 7 - Common Purchasers of oil. Mr. Will Condon will be the first to testify in favor of this bill. He will give the state's position on why we need this bill as written. Mr. Condon said that the common purchaser provisions in existing law that were part of the 1972 oil package are contained in the Right-of-Way Leasing Act, sections 120(4) and 120(5) of that Act. In exchange for crossing state lands one of the covenants that -the lessee had to agree to was tD become a common purchaser of oil or gas and section 120 (4) indicates that common purchaser as defined by that section meant that any lessee would have to buy all oil for common purchase and another possible reading of this is that the "common purchaser tf is the common purchaser meaning from the states that h~ve that. If you do buy you have to buy from all offerers in proportion- to what they are offering according to your needs. You have to buy say 50 from each offerer instead of 100 from one seller. It is possible that the way this should be read, because you are a pipeline, and each offerer offers 100 bbls., yoti have to take the 200 bbls and do what you want with it. If this is correct, then, we are dOing something different from what any state has attempted to do. This is a compulsory purchaser provision. In that case, our new proposed bil~ with respect to oil, is narrowing the scope of the bill. Quite clearly the cornmon purchaser act does not require -you to purchase if not already in the business of purchasing. The new proposed bill would require somebody who becomes a cornmon purchaser because he was discriminatin~ to have to buy on a prorata basis. Mr. Lipton said that by this we were narrowing the scope of the bill. Mr. Condon said he felt they were widening it because this applie~ to any purchaser in the state, and not just a pipe- line owner. The pipeline companies in Alaska don't happen to purch 18 ".' HB 532 Taking of antlerless moose - 263 HB 535 - Employment of. relat'ives of members of the legislature, - 79, 89, 113, 114 H3 543 - Unrai~ trada practi~es and consumer, protection - 179, 252-257 HB 550 - Liability for andcollection of expenses of hospitalization of ,mental patients 277-280, 282 11 ----------------------- Page 171----------------------- P~rro ") _ \o...wg_ -' HE 559- "Comp~nsation'for taking of right's-of-~ay across state .leases - 11,112, 290-294 HB' 561 Requiring reports 'by persons treati,ng those injur-ed . '?yviolence - 294, 295 Increased punishment for prior criminal conviction 164 . . :~' 'RB 563 - Requiring transmission of'criminal records' and data .to·ttie offender!~ place of imprisonment - 164, 165 ..' ·HB 566 - Requiring submission of pre-sentence reports to the court for'persons convicted of a felony; changing Rule 32(c), Rules of Criminal Procedure ~ 165 "HB 568 Probation'and parole yiolators - 165 '" ..... HB 5-72 Evasion of custody by minbrs'~ 290, 299 HE 574 Handling of bodies - "77-79, l12, 113· HB 576 Grou..1'1ds for the denial, suspension or revocation .of .licensure of nurses - 192-196, 21~ HB 577 - Maximum amount loanable under the small business .,;. .... .loan program - 94 HB 588 - Grading an~,content of" state pharmacy exarriination·- 104 .: + : . HB· 589 - Regulation or pharmacy;profession - 104. HB 591 - Closed hunt~ng areas adjacent to high.w~ys - 294, 316,317 i' i' HB 607' Wage claims - 103 . HB 614 Qualification of an assistant adjutant general - 274 .,~ .., HB 633 Carrying of firearms in places licensed \to sell . " . ,-~'"-.-.-" "'-'1litoxicatlng liquo.r· '=-165; - 218, "276, 295\ ..-:.-- - ---.,---.---'~------:-'..---'-'-...~.----__ - 'HB 635 - Postponement of civil proceedings when a\party, attorney or witness is a member of the legislature; changing Rule 40(f) of Rules of Givil Procedure - 71, 72, 89 HB 644 - Enforcement of state fire safety rules ~nd regulations - 191, 192 .HB 64~ - Motor vehicle safetY'responsibility - 191, 192, 195 HB 646 - Children found to be subject to the jurisdiction of the superior court.- 308 HB 655 - Providing for use of certain .fi~hery records by ·the· Commercial. Fisheries El?-try Commission - 238 '--,' HE 675 - Imposition of the death penalty; changing Rule 35, Rules of Criminal Procedure - 90, 91, 94-96 11i ----------------------- Page 172----------------------- Hs68n- - Protection of the r~ghts of owne~s of sound recordings'- 214-217 ,'--- .·HB 705 Home,rtile city b6nded indebtedness incurred f'or school construction - 221 ,HB 714 Agricultural land classification - 282, i84,28~, 281 , . ':. HB 734 Cost estimates and consumer protection - 289, 290 , . . 'HB ·736 - Alaska t s contribution to the national statuary hall . collection in the United States Capitol ~ 314. . ·HB 746 - tntroduction of bills ~~ members of the legisla~ure 'HB .749 ,-,'Concealment of' mercha!ldise -' 165 :HB ,753 Interstate 'acquisition ·of' criminal justice information '166 . ,HB 758 Time statutes become law and take' effect - 195 ,HB 760 Authorizing medical practice of' acupunctu~e- 178 '- .. HB 766 Leg~s,lative confirmation 'of ap'pointments - 196, 212 HB 768 ,Penalty for drawing a check with insufficient funds 294 HB 774 ~hY~icaltherapy - 308j 309 i. . • "I" !" :. ,.\,\~ , HB '776 State board of parole ~ 162 HB 778 - Membership of the Governor's Commission of the .Admin- , istration of Justice - 162 • t HB 777 Indigent ·defendants -'160 ; . ,.. ', HB 781 Confidentiality of bank records pertaining to " . . deposits and customers - .238 \ . . .__._......____~~_.___:_~------..-.----~---.--.. ---... --.---...-.. :-"--.--:- ,.. _-- -.~----.-,.-.-.-----.-------------.--:-.-- ------·-'-t-··--·-·--------... --·--·-·---···--·M.-:-'".~-------..-- HB 782 Elections - '219, 221, 222 . \. ,HB '789 Repealing the incorporation by reference of g~neral ~ : I .,J, insurer reqUirements as found in,ch~9 of Title 21 ",. ~- r< in the provisions regulating hospital and medical ; , - . service corporations in ch. 87 of title 21 -312, 313 . . HB 79~ - Repealing the ,prohib~tion against the release of information regarding unfair trade practices hy the attorney general to a district attorney or law enfor~ernent officer for use in a criminal prosecution - 178 HB 792 - Aggravated assault - 161, 162, 178 : ~'. HB 794 - Crime of extortion 186,- 187, 227, 27,6, 277 ) , " .iv ----------------------- Page 173----------------------- ··House Bills - Page 5 .. !is 796 - Impo3i tion of 8. sentence of life. imprisonment; changing Rule 35, Rules of Criminal Procedure - 21-9 HB 801 Gambling - 213, 263, 272, 275 .HB 802 Miscellaneous special appropriations rel~ting to.criminal justice -.212, 213 .HB 804 - Requiring s,tg:tecompliance with local planning, ., . plattirig and zoning ordinances. 298~300 :HB 811 - Seals of court ~ 251 HB817 - Corrective amendments in the Alask~ Statutes as recommended by the revisor of statutes -'257-263, HB 827 Authorizing farm use and' undeveloped land property' tax assessment - 272,-273 . . " .. : ,', . . HB 830 - Ope~atio~ o~ private nortpr6fit salmon hatcheries -305-307 HB n -. t. In~eritance of stock in corporations organized under .OJ't - . the Alaska Native Claims Settlemeht Act - 282, 284, 285, 287 ., HB 835 - Expanding'duties of. Gov~'rnor' s Commission on the Administration of Justi,ce - 276, 295; 296· , :~ --' HB 841 - Limi ted entry , permit s and interim use permi.t s for ,conunercial fishing 316 HB 842 - Certain custodians - 287 .. r \ HB 8~9 - Defrauding of hotels, boardinghouses, r~staurants and bars - 311 '. '. I':" HB 850 Regulation of charitable organizations ahd the solicitation of contributions for charitable e_' .-------.-:-------.... -;------.- ----- ..- .. -purposes----· 310 ; -,316'-' ... - -- .... ;-- .....-......-----------...------.------------ , '. " ;~',,';, ~B 851 - Garbage, ~efuse, trash or other waste ma~erial , . ,-: ~ r?". collection and disposal services'- 311 v ----------------------- Page 174----------------------- 'House Joint Resolutions: HJR 58 - Proposing amendmen.ts to'the state constitution re'Yising ~he method and procedure forredistrlcting the senate' and house of representatives of the ,state legislature- 90 HJR 65 Annual waiver from provisions of the Jones Actf.or M/V Wickersham ..;. 10,4, 129 ':HJR 66 - Amendment to Alaska Constitution relating to release ,on bai~ ,~ 166, 167 '"HJR 71 Amendment to State Constitution Art. I", Sec. 12, 167 (Excessive Bail) HJR 75 - Reporting of lost gear by forei~I?- fishing vessels -'195 'HJR 85' Amendment ot State Constitution revising method and procedure for redistricting the senate and house 'of r~presentatives of the state legislature - 66' '" :HJR .93 ft..mendment'to State Coris~itution grand jury section 160, ,HJ"R 95 Proposed RCA cOIIlInunications satellite ~ 273 ..', . :.; '- House Concurrent Resolutions: HCR 3 - Fire code requirements of group homes -'16, 18 HCR30 - Legal advisor for Division of Correctidns -, 308 HCR 49 - Stationing of a resident distridt attorriey in Kodiak - 112 . ' ~~ HCR 70 - Extending the deadline for 'submission of ~xecutive , , :, ' ,,' appointments - 196 ' , " , \ ' ", , -.-----------.---.-.---.--- .... -... .. .- .... ,....------ ..-.-- ..--. -----" .---...---.--.-:--... -- ... -----.~.-.--.--.-.--..--r_-~----.---.- ..-----.. --------... -.--~-~,-.... - .. -..---.__-.-~.-..... ----.. l 1 HCR - 84 - Congratulating Reggie Joule - 213 HeR 85 - Sale of "empty calorie" snacks in public 'schools - 275 HCR'86 - S~udy of penal institutions in Alaska - 286, 287 HCR 97 - Supporting reconstruction and maintenance of the . Chitina-McCarthy Highway - 275 'Hcn 98 - Requesting Alaska Sup~eme Court to establish by rule guidelines for thepract!ce of plea bargaining - 275, 276 HCR 99 - Activities of the Alaska Police Standards Council - 276 HeR 100 - Supporting,reconstruction of the Copper River Highway 275 vi ----------------------- Page 175----------------------- Senate Bills: sa-lS - Penalties for ,the sale ,of drugi - 263, 264, 273 ,,-. SB 32 - Examination and treatment of minors -'15,80-86, 196-199 sa 67·- Architecture, engineering and ~and surveying - 2,311 .. .SB 117 - Temporary suspension of civil liabilities .of national guardsmen on state active duty - 3 S8 '126 M~lti-purpose senior centers - 16, 19, 20 SB 170 - Providing for recall of. members of advisory sch~ool boards - 312 SB 193 Reckless and negligent driving.- 217, 273, 274 SB 219 Execution exemption for' income - 280-282.' .' SB 249 Interference with cormnercial fishing' gear - 309 . :SB 290 Suspension:or revocatiQn of teachers' certificates 313 'SB 294 Dev.elopment city of" Lost River - 299, 302-305' .SB 313 Bail - 300 ;,;." . ., SB 337 - .Pre-sentence investiga:pions, amending Alaska Supreme' i.~. ; Court Rule of Criminal'·Procedure 32(c)(1) - 195. :. . . .~ SB 388 - ElectlonCampaigns - 228-251 . , ~ ! .SB 394. Receiving of stolen property 300 ,30~ . SB 455 - MuniCipal property taxation - 309, 3 10 \ .. '. , ..',a- SB 476 - Revenue anticipation notes issued by cif{ies and boroughs - . ..,-:",_...___'. ~~.__ '___ ...___ ."'.._.~.__ .______ .i ..___ ,_________ ._315, 316 .--.--~------- .-~------------.-----..--.-.-.------- SB 526 - Imposition of criminal sentences; having; the effect of changing Rules 32(b) and 49, Rules of Criminal Procedure and Rule 2l(f) and (g), Rules of Appellate Procedure - 317 Senate Joint Resolutions: SJR33 - Use of compute~ technology - 16 SJR 50 - Urging support of S. 1988 (Extending.contiguous us fi~hing zone) 104 vii ----------------------- Page 176----------------------- Senate Concurrent Resol~tions: SCH 1 ~·Insertion of valves and special fittinga in pipelines - 310 . .SCR 10.·- ·Inadequacy of fines for commercial fi~hing violations -·10.4 ·SCR 57 - Organized criminal activity in Alaska - 30.0. .. . . . -.\" .Subject: Confirmation Hearings for Pat vlellington and Norman ·Gorsuch 158, 159 ·;:CDrrections Institute (Juneau) Visit- 87, 88 Law and Order Hearings 15, 24-60., 66-70., 115-157 . ,.." ~.... . "..... -=-_._.. --.---'"-'- _.. '-.-- .~-.-.:_._---- ---_..__..-.-----_.._-----_.-----_ ... --... ~-.--~~------ ...---=-..-.._--_.•_---_ ..-- ~-~-~-~~.---~-------.--....- .... --.- "): ";, t" ) viii ----------------------- Page 177----------------------- '-- ----------------------- Page 178----------------------- HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE ME~TING .'\, . 1 Mond:lY) 'January 21, 19·74 The first meeting of the committee for the second' session of the Eighth Alaska Legislature was ca~led' to order by Chairman .T·illion at 3: 05 p.m. in Rooml04 of 'the Assembly Apartments. Present V'lere: Tillion~ Orsini ~ ChanC:e ~ rllalon~~. Banfield and : McVeigh. A review of bills in cammittee vJas conducted. A committee polic~ was adopted regarding action to be taken on subjects that have been considered in public hearing~ No final action .will be taken on measures on the same ~ay as the public hearing. : '. . j ~ • ~: • -lo' , .~r: " .'\. ' . . 'J. , \ I .' ! ,,' ~ .... '-, . .:;- -1- ----------------------- Page 179----------------------- I 1/23 i HOU3E JUDICIARY COMftIITTSE MINUTE3 OF THE MEETING ,Wednesday; January 23, 1974 Chairman Tillion called the meeting "to order at 3:24 p.m • .", in Room 104, Assembly Apartments. Present'were 'Tillion, 'Malone,Chance, McVeigh and Beirne. Staff coun~el, Randy _Ba~ry was also present~ , . . .' ." . ,", . . ,Comp. Neg. Tiillon assigned HB-269--'Comparative Negligence - to rllr. -McVeigh will assist in the research on this, bill. The chairman said that hew'Ould speak~~Tith Nrs . Banfield', ,.Saf'e,ty about 'HB-205 - Safety glazing labels and materials. She ~ ·'.-Gla:z:ing will" find out about the objections Don Abel had on this ".Labels .measure. After that time, the bill will be placed ,on 'the . agenda!, 1..:' , . New O~~nerl HB-281 ~ Assessment roll/real property/new owner. The HB .. Ta~ rolls secretary wa~ asked tonotlfy someone from the-Borough _ assessment office t'O eithe~ send written testimony orto- : avpt::ar 1r1 pt::rsonto sho~'1- why this l1lt::asure would be helpful. ,Mr. "Robert HO~fe t'lill be at our meeting on Monday, January 28, at 3:00 p.m. ' ., . , Invest. ,HB-253 - Investment of surplus retirement fund money.' The' 25::, retire- committee would like to hea'r from the administration on ,~,~~~'~, ment this measure is necessary.tThe secretary will call Mr. .money Eppenbach and ask him to come to our meeting on January 28, at 3:00 p.m. . ' ')N Opere HB~258 - Furnishing motor vehicle' operat'ing records. '.Mr.' Records' Tillion will see Mr. Huber about his bill and i~ he still' wants it, !,' it will be placed on the agenda. Arch. Eng. SB-67 - Architecture~ engineering and land ~urveying. This .& Land Sur.bill has been assigned to Mr. Malone. Licensing HB-373 - Licensing of automotive repair shops., The committee'- .!:\Jl·tO :Shops wanted to look at the governor' s bill on this subjec't and see ., if it covers this same problem.' If so, the'y will probably , ' consider the governor's bill., ' HB-335 - Ownership of real property by nonresident ~liens. B 33~ T McVeigh asked Randy if heha'S any p:roblems with this bill.' O'1 ne:rs hi P / ' nonres~ Randy said that the Supreme Court started off iti one, direction ~,l:iens during World Wars I and II but since th~n has made the shift it!, ,the -other direction., The trend is th~at you canno't restrict ownership of lana to aliens. M~s. Chande mentioned that she, would like to have Canada's laws resear~hed. Mr. Tlllionffiid that aliens there were allowed to own a lot but were required to develop the lot by adding improvements worth a certain sum o'r money. Randy will check into' this. -2- ----------------------- Page 180----------------------- I 1123 . SB~117 - Temporary suspension of civil liabilities of SB 11· C'-"6iVil National Guardsmen called into active duty for the State~ Liab/Natl Mr. Tillion ~Till contact Mr. Harris on his senate bill Guard' before we take any further action on this. ·.The .next committee meet.ing will be held January 28 , Monday. ! • . 'Meeting adjourned at 3:55 p.m. ! .-' ;" ,1_' . .:l~: . . ,," ! ~ 1 ~. . ; ~\ . I - 'f J (. ,I -3~ ----------------------- Page 181----------------------- 1/2S ! • - HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES·O? 'THE MEETING' ,Tuesday, January 29" i974 Chairman Tillion called the meeting toorder'at 3':10 ,p.m. , in Room 104" Assembly Apartments., Present were: Chance, Tillionand McVeigh. , .' - Mr.'Eppenbach testi:fied in favor of' House' Bill No. 253 :Invest. , Investment of surplus retirement fund money. He agreed ,~llet.irement , monies with the CS put out by the State A:ffairs Committee last year but had some additions he would like, to have incor- ~orated in the bill. He had some suggested language that he, had distributed to committee members'. He said, that i.f ,,::,:;,,;:·;~!tn'~s·:;l;bi.1.1' we~e, passed, as the committee substitute will show, that this would give additional economic sources of credit in this state which will be ne'eded during pipeline j '. construction. ' Chance asked if the ~etirement fund ~~s to be considered' ,as a trust fund. Mr. Eppenbach gave the example of, Hawaii. They tho~ght they could lliake the fund and then U3e the moneY' to meet certain obligations. He said that it was his opinion , that 'the 'trust i.ntegrity will come :first and foremost i:f this bill is passed. It is also reasonable that we get maximum returns on this money by buying. mortgages. Conunon stocks aren't good. Alaskan mortgages are high yield. He said - what he really wanted was 'morepurchasing power for the state.' ) ,(Randy Barry arrived 3: 15r Mr. Eppenbach said we didn f t have enough money in the general fund so we want to use 'this .method. Tillion asked if there was any. opposition to this' bill. Mr. Eppenbach said,he didn't know of any. (Malcine 'arrived 3: 16 ) , Mr. Eppenbach said they wanted to make some changes in the . State Affairs CS with respect to the retirement fund with the option to purchase federal veterans' mortgages. During "deliberations in the State Affairs Committee and research by the Department of Revenue showed it would be a protected security risk to purchase conventional loans. He said the I • •. ~; __ state now has a full-tim~'~" investment officer. 'He said .~ . - - . ·:·-.~:,,:th"€;y originally wanted this to be limited to Alaska ,banks, ,' " ,......but "'during t,he' last' nine months ,their views of this have i changed. ,Now requiring the 25 per cent limit is only . '·reasonable and makes sense if it is' for two years. A two- year holding period seems sufficient. Beyond that they saw·additional need for having commercial'purchasing power. They recognized that the"risks would~b~ greater. They want ·banks to hold 25 per c2nt' 6f the commevcial paper. .' ..... Mr. Eppenbach then explained the two new federal programs. ,He felt the state should take advantage of these. They ,.:- :··.··:'.ar·~ FHA guaranteed portion of business and industrial loans .~ '~.,'Jl1ade under the, Rural Developrnent- Act of 1972; and loans '...mad:,l under the Federal Ship Financing Act o.f 1972. -4- ----------------------- Page 182----------------------- 1/29 . Page 2 bhance aske~ if this would need an effective dateclause~ This could be added. Malone felt that if these ehanges ,wer~" needed then they should be incorporated into the ,bili in thiscommitte"e. ' M:r-~' Eppenbach went throu'gh the additions he had prepared. , A copy of these chang~s will be in tbe file. H~ sai~ t~er~ had been critici~m for not putting ~oremoney from the general fund into this, but they do have the respons- ibility of generating cash. We did'n f t think that the comInissioner had this p01iver and we want you to commit 'it to us.· McVeigh asked for an example of an institution " ••,0, ;;" ..."j;"hatc.Quld insure these mortgages. He said Magic Insur- i' .;:;,;anl;e"',Campany "was one. McVeigh asked what "other securityn ".,~<, meant. Mr. Eppenbach said this means anything to be used ,for s~curity. The department has to analyze anything they accept as security. They will have to make ,this judgment. ' ' fJIr. Eppenbach noted that the additional _cqange that he requested before yihei'1 thi:i bill ;'.;as in state Affairs is under (12). The additional language is: ,... "for a minimum of two years. fT ' ' about ' When talking/these loans you must remember that this means .' new loans that are proceSsed 'after the effective- date of i this act. McVeigh was askj/:ng questions about this aspect \.~ of the bill because of what happened after the earthquake. The SEA had a lot of bad paper dumped on it at that time. He wanted to make sure that could not 'happen with this 'piece of legislation. Chance brought out that it could not be over 90 days at,the bank. This would prevent. being able to purchase delinquent loans. Mr. Eppenbach noted that it is possitile to make a bad' loan because there is some judg- ment required' to make these purchases. Chance noted that , there was an additional safeguard which shdwed that if the aggregate from anyone institution becomes delinquent more than 1/2 of 1 per cent then the department shall stop pur- . chasing from them. Mr. Eppenbach felt that the state should ,'~",;.have the right to have a rate of return. There will be a '"~ ',Y~ri,B-k in purchasing conventional mortgages, but ~ve will take that ri.sk. He suggested that you may even end up with the collateral and have to sell the real estate. This is 'really only a risk of delay. He said there is a risk also with federally,insured programs-~it may take you up to six months to get a refund. ,.~\ McVeigh asked if ~e would get more inte~est fro~ money used . out of these,tru~t funds than what wouid accumulate for any losses. Mr. Eppenbach said they didn't figure it that way. , -~ .They put this into the rate of calculation when they orig- :;:-~,::1.nally establish the loan. They don't want to have to handle' ",_,ioans at a set, interest all the time. He 'said this manner of ,""''''hc}ldlng back say 2 per cent to compensate for losses is a cwnbersome way for reserve accounting. -5- ----------------------- Page 183----------------------- 1/29 1 Page 3 '.Malone asked about the practical effect of these change~~ Is the problem unavailability of financing in the Stat'e of Alaska? . What effect does this have on the retirement fund?' Mr. Eppenbach said there was 86 million dbllars in each 'of the trust funds. They are now inve$ted at 10~15 per~ent in common stock, 30'per cent in government, 20 per cent' .: ;in mortgages and corporate bonds. Corporate bonds are liquid 0 •• ' • and marketable. He said we have about 40 million in 'pur- '. chasing' power in the fund and have an additional growth potential of 40 million. Mr. Eppenbach ,said ,he did not· . want to leave the impression that he planned on having the whole sum invested. The intent is to maintain abalance. if . ..,Malone asked/the agencies that the State did business with : .'at ,this time were Alaska agencies.' He saidno'and gave an example of one being Washington, D. C. He .saidthatunder the dIfferent kinds of purchasing power the. new plan would give them the inve~tments would be new in ~tate investments and. these:t~ould also be short term deposits °in Alaskan .banks. . , 'Malone felt that'we could take (13) out and forget about . purchasing cOlTh.llerc.ia.l rea.l· estate .loans. . ffillion didn T t know . ..} whether this ~Tould be worth~\Thile. 'Cha,nce agreed with ' Tillion and felt that this ,should be left open. ,,- Chance moved and asked unanimous consent 'that'a committee substitute be drafted to £;nclude'the ne"q language submitted' 'by Mr. Eppenbach added to %he S~ate Aff~irs CS. Therebeing 'no object~on, it was so ordered. The chairman gave all the necessary information to Randy to have it redrafted. Final . action will be taken on this bill after we' receive " the com- ·pleted.CS. Mr. Eppenbach will bring helpful backupmaterial'for committee . members for explaining this on the Floor. . HB 281 - Annual Assessment Roll/new owner. Chance moved and HB 2· liewOwner/ Tax rolls asked unanimous 'that this bill go out with a "do pass" recommendation. All signed "do pass". ," ., Meeting adj ourned at 4: 03 p.m.' f " ..... ) -6- ----------------------- Page 184----------------------- I 1/30 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE I _ MINUTES OF THE MEETING Wednesday, January 36,.1974 ·The meeting was called to order by Ch~irman Tillion at 3:25 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present.were: Tillion, Malone, Randy Barry, Ghance,and McVeigh. > • The . first bill for con'~ideration was HB '427-' Guide ~ Licensing HB 42 . Gui9.e Lic. and Control Board. Co.mmissionerBrooks testified on -this' ; ,Con. Bd. measure. He said he wouid like to ~ee the board put back' under the administration and control of Fish and Game as'. in the past. He said that he would be ex-officio secretary and the governor would have veto powers on actiort taken by the ·boar~. He stated that this bill was an amendment to an act 'c~;that;"ltoJ'as legislated last· year, which created a Guide Licensing' ". and Control Board. which was placed in the Department' of .. CommeI.'ce. He said the reason this law was enacted' was the· 'general feeling of ·frustrationwith the· way that pro.fessional· guides were conducting the~selves in Alaska .. It was felt that part of the cause of this was the fact that the Board of Fish . and· Game wasn f t able to attend -properly·to its responsibilitiesl ~'!hich" included administeri"ng the_guide p:r-ogr-am. ' He Raid he' felt that the problem'was mUch greater than that. The true ,. facts were that a great many guides found" it' highly profitable' to violate laws and regulations and were extremely competent .' '. in carrying out their illegal activitie~. It was difficult . to make cases against them~ Alaska was getting a bad repu- tation nationally because ~fthe way that many guides, particularly aircraft operators were behaving. The problem . wasn't so much with the Board. of Fish and Game which made . the regulations and would hold hearings in-cases where illegal activities of guides were discovered and charges filed, cases brought before the board with the authority to suspend or revoke licenses. Really the administration of the guide pro- gram was' carried out primarily by the Department of Fish and Game. Our st'aff did all the examining, record keeping, pro- tectionwork, making cases that would be brought before the -board to be heard. The board's role was primarily that of .sitting in judgment of those accused of vlolatingthe regu- lations. When the guid~licensing and control board was . created, the authority formerly resided'with Fish and Game ""'",'<' was given to the new board and placed under t.he Department of . Commerce. This did not seem to solve any of the problems. The board was deprived of staff. Nothing has been aCcomplishe . It. held numerous hearings, but no guides were examined during this year. There has been littlenoticea~le change in the activities of guides. He felt we hadJslid backwards. The board doesn't even have a staff to deve\loD information "tv-hich casts light on just what is going on.· Me~recogriizedthe efforts of Representative Specking in the preparation of this bill, but felt there was difficulty because the board was left in the Department of Commerce .. This is a .most unusual board in some respects. As compared to the Board of Fish and Game this board is not totally autonomous. They don't really have the final say. -7- ----------------------- Page 185----------------------- Page 2 ", If the Commissioner 'of Fish and. Game' d1.sagre~s with 8omet~ing H3 4 I " I in a rule or regulation of "the board, "then a public hearing ". / can be held, and if the board and the commissioner cannot resolve the problem then the matter is taken to the governor , for final decision. He felt that this" is' a proper~.e'thod of cedure in keeping with what many of us feel is the most desirable form of government now. Be noted that the Guide Licensing and Control, Board has no one to critique whatlt "does. It can set up new regulations,;nomatt'erhowridiculous"~ they will stand. There is always a r,isk where "a professional board is dominated by p~ople with an economic inter~st in it. They could formulate regulations that aren't in the bestpubli' interest. " If the Department, of Fish and Game has to do all' , theil'lo~k Comrnissioner Brooks feels that the board should come under the Department of Fish and Game. ' (Orsini arrived 3:34) He'said that if the bill were amended he would like to be " designated as the ~~-officio secretary of the boardiri a, similar manner as he does for the Board of Fish and Game. """ 'He felt this WOUld' allow his department to provide properly" for the activities for the Guide Li6ensing and Contrpi,Board. They could exercise some degree of influence in" making sure that all of the information that" could be of value to the board would be available t6 them .. He didn't feel this would " be done if left' urider the" Department of Commerc.e. We ' can "pro~ide budgetary and administrativeser~ices for'the, board, "but that isn't what they wan't.,' They want 'advice from our ;- biologists and conservationists. This bill "says that Fish and Game must respond to e,veryrequest from Gom.'11erce on GLCB matters. He said he :didnt't know' what workload their _. > • ,,, ,J • o "requests ~ could amount to. , This could add a new burden on "us that we ar~ not prepared to field unless we are working "closely with the board all the time and can offer sbme guidance and assistance. We have examined every guide in Alaska~ promulgated every regulation on the books now, held administrative hearings in revoking guides licenses--we are familiar ,with the workings. He felt the best was to 'bring it back under the control of the Department of Fish and Game. Malone "reviewed Commissioner" Brooks recommendations. The Commissioner wanted the board to come under the Department I' I , of Fish and Game. He was to be designated:; as ex-officio ~ .. - " . - .', .' \ .. ' ~ .......... . secretary of the board. Regulations were to be promulgated ," ."' . by the Board. ' , I'" of, Fish and Game- and' the governor ,could' exercise power of veto, on such matters., The Commissioner agreed \'lith his comments. " McVeigh asked if this bi~l'had been through the Natural Resources.Committee. "Tillion said that it had'a further ref~rral to Finance Committee only. l\lpVeigh then made referrence to the heavy penalties. If there is a guide engaging in guiding activitieswhile his license is suspended or revoked~ then he is guilty of a felony. He felt this ,. " 'Va's a severe punishment. There is also provision for a fine of more more than $5,000 or both. He asked the Com- missioner if he didn't feel this was excessive. Mr. Brooks -8- ----------------------- Page 186----------------------- · Page 4 . 'R~venue .' Tillion noted that all ''licensing boards are in ··the Department of Commerce .. Thattswhy ,it was felt Commerce '.. could best handle thi.s ~too.. . Even the 'O'overnor has put the FishandiGame,enr-orcement liiyisioniIl"" the State Police-- ,,; "there. j.s an ,.o~r4-~pthere~' 'Cllallee reitl;his was alittle . :' diffe.rent: . Sbesaid,there was no Way..ror them to know at '.,,,,Fl,shand Game,llOWlllaJlYmaQilOl.trs;the.1:would,:have to ,spend on ·th~sact~it·y.__ Speeking agre:ed'that.he... felt there were~ome' .technical:-'problems that haD. to ,.meworkedout. He .f-elt Mr. Jensen c~uld des.eribe some-of :She:prob..l'em.s.e,J~~teriencedin :>' ·;.Ithltpast;rye ar " M.,.",.'J"ensen reporte.dthat .the Duarn bad ,just rin.lshed hear- 'ings on proposed regulations_ lIe ;..sa:id ,he was'surprised ~t "'\;.,·t~e,,,~ea vy .worJqpadthat~tlev"'elo'J'eu :when.;.they startedapplying, " ;, the~:'s1;atutetm¢ 'waspa.s:sed~stc. year. .He: 'had severa]. points he, wapted -to t.aJ.kabout. H~'saidthattheyaresupposed to . ,give examinati.om.to p.ll1>~s:pe~:q;tvce,~-gui.d.e&., ~,tpbi's. involves ... ?"'malC'ing up al'lOtJ-querticrn' ·~tterr t'e:.S't,!"""'~.It:-"ha'6 to be \iell ,thought out'A Then you are..r.,aqui.red:to~have -a background . n'h Q ,,1... · "',..,+ h Q 'n;C n 1"\ l.a +~ lr"i n";' .+h..o. fo!a~ +- 1Jlha.~ h:nr.,o i- r"\ m.o Q i- " ..~.>,'''' ..&. .... '- ...., ....... ", ~..... ~ ........""'..... J:-";~,,,,,ki'~'" "'-'1_ "'" ...............+.0 ,,,~,.' ~~.,.., .",.. .......""""..... J -, ............,.. IfI ....... ..., "'-'. ... ... -- ...... ..., eertain~equ±rements~b-efo~.. they rl-an-'be';'~ual':Lfied to take "the~<·te~t,. .We llaye:~'togivethe .st::s,,:J;n:t;.1fO ;Or,..tbree di.fr~nt ':p1aces :1nAla'Slta. ~he'i)aerdsete:the time-...;lt used to be ·twic-e a year_ Ther-eis a ..lot o~,:deci:siDn-mald.ng involved.. ..,;"rhere aTe man7 ti1ll€E 'that~e .h..ave'to, :eont~ct .~l.l~ F&G D'ep~J::~ ,.~~,;ment.· Somet,imes' o~sc.c:1"e:t~ry wnul.d.:Iio 1;hi,s .. 'We only h~ve ·,.'.::one _,secretary that has' ..been:7a:5sign~n.,1;o Dur work l'Da1i~,- We ;~_. a).Sf> have one'~ atto.t-~y ,.;;j.n. Ane'hor.a;g-e.:nhati¥has other Jobs to j >,;~,us . with t~ .1egaJ.'pr.obia~$.: T.he::oartiination takes some- ,,'''. one at the head cf",j.t. Mr~Jensen~~a.1d.,j;hat he ,has spent a 1 lot 'of' :time s~ing,::thattheB'e,:var1.on~"th±ngsare done. I They also .held hearip.gsolt'new:: regulations . There .is a work j load for tbis, too.. The times nave to bepubll.slledand ", arrangements we1.lthought out.. 'Then you have to send out ~ hearing notice dates to the public. Youhaveto·Tind places to hold hearings and give examjnations .in the.several to.wns .• · ":All o~ this work is v-ery time ~onsmning.. .~hen., t'oa, wh~n 'you are meeting with the attorney and you don't have somebody,' . at the headoi' it working wit.h him that understands what is . . transll.iring--,it is hard to'separat~,Fj,sh'andGame 'and guiding. ·ManY'~'fhey' needed to talk" to"someone f"romFi:sh and Game. He· ..;sai9 the:y.eou.1d .control. the action~o.f"guidesand their areas' · in whl~h they htlJ,lt,.",b..u-t dO~::'DRthave:.;toint'rol 'over" the taking of. game. We d.id~,: pass. 20·regul,ation:s.th~t "were wQrd changes so the new Act could be implemented. H.e felt it would have been advantageous to have the Department of l1'iGh and Game man there showing us how they would interpret these new regulations The only other way wouJ.d be .for the Legislature to fund an . If f ""'-'" . i , account and set up a director to see that "things are in order., , .f·D'· \,,' .' l This is especially as we go into land withdrawals which will makeshifts lnguidea-reas and the taking of game. Whenyou consider that you have 1,000 people that are :lnterested and -10- ----------------------- Page 187----------------------- :j 1/30 Page 5 and ,they are writing and ask~ng que~tiDns, you need ,someone !!iB 4~7 to do tha:t~rork. Either this board hast'c) go back under a , ,department 'that talks the $~me d.~ng~a.ge or they should set up a director's post w1t~~ffl~H §~&l1fledto de the wo~k~ Our secretary is swamf)edw:\.tl1 wQ;rl(~ This is {iifferent than other professional b9gra~, f?~$ the ~t~fldpolnt of only tssueing a license. ' ' The GLCB also has, to ~it in ~n 11~ar1rH~;; as a jury on 'violation ',We have been w'orking on l5 ~§l.§e.s J SO' w'~ hg.ve a workload that is not easy to dischapge. I do believe that the board is off· to a good start. There is one issue on' which we have worked ha~d. Public Saf~t~ worked with us. We have been talking to Public Safety and Revenue as to what the board could do to help their depart- ments 'in the matter of regulations. We have been working 'on a plan :for checking hunters. They have to check in with PUbli1 Safety 'and after the hunt they have to file a complete report ' of activity. .This would include what they got, where they got it, etc .., This TjTay T.. ne said they haye had large attendances at the .fair in· Palmer and they wanted to get a good track in operation •. (McVeigh arrived '3:16) The monies coming from the fair will go back to the fair which will help them build it up to what it should be. It is getting harder to get money for buildings and as an ...:.)..'...., . example 'he said the buildipg that housed displays of" pro- ~ ... duce were standing room only. This bill would allow the ,_1' . fair to become more self-supporting. He al$o said that in the valley now horses are becoming a reality. There are over 1800 now and it is the coming busines~. The people that have these horses are going in for race horses. This sport 1s a great crowd pleaser. This will ~bring money into ,the st·ate. He said he doesn t t see anything\wrong with this ", being allowed. ~ Malone asked about paragraph '(c) on Page lof the CS. Lines 24 and 25--does that mean that if the provisions were violated would the board revoke their license. Chance noted that the sentence above was referring only to where the betting tqkes place. McVeigh felt this would be taken care of by regulations. McVeigh asked if it was the intent to make this. a strictly annual fair arrangement. Tillion said that it was. Malone said the commissioner could make regulations .to cover this. McVeigh noted bingo in Anchorage as an example. There are existing regulations about how big the pot~ how big the prizes, how often they can be given away, etc. . Tillion said that the corrunissioner rr may " issue perml t3. Chance wanted to know ir we should say, .the Department should promulgate regulations~ Material was read from the statutes on this. Malone moved' and asked unanimous consent that we )1 ,'report' out 2d CS for HB 23 out with a "Do Pass" recommendation. ,t'.·) 'il Orsini objected. The bill was signed out. McVeigh will carry !~ this bill on the Floor. Meeting adjourned at 3:32 p.m. -22- ----------------------- Page 199----------------------- . I Meetirig of the House Judiciary was called and met at 3:14, February 7, 1974. Present were 'Chairman Tillion, Ms ~ "Chance, Mr. Orsini, and Mr. Malone. ; Exempt. HB308 was discussed and in answ'er to Mr. Tillion, Randy Berry HB 30'E Insurer. said that the Supreme Court has riot said that we could not do it •. Safety " '. , . Irispec ..Insu~ance companies c~nnot say what you should do i6 be insurable. They are liable if' they do" and some sort of"\accident o'ccured. Rep. Chance said that she did want to hear someone speak on this bi·ll. ' Mr. Malone asked about .line 16 and how it compares to line 1•. . They appeared to conf'lict. Mr. Orsini asked'if it co~ld not be included in the contract. Ms. Chance asked who requested this bill and Tillion replied that ·he did not know. IvIr. Ose could give inf'ormation on this. Mr; Malone will research this bill .. Ms. Banfield arrived at 3:21. '!, '':- A '£rails HB3l0 -- discussion of this bill followed with Mr. Orsini asking B 31C· and whether motorized vehicles were restricted to only the trails "'Footpaths along highways. "." .' Ms. Banfield stated that Mr. Orsini was a motorcycle buff--which ·Mr. Orsini admitted was true. Mr. Tillion said that we should hear from the ~ponsor of this' bill. This HB 310 will be taken 'up Monday. Mr. Willard should be notifie . Someone from Highways, and someone from Natural Resource's should come . ...., -,. It .was stated that by the same token--trails designated as. motor- 'ized 7 would not be used as bridle trails. A 'clear definition of trails is called tor. Ra~dy looked it up; . alld so did Mr . Malone " and there is not a clear definition. ) It was decided not to have a -!!leeting on Feb\ 8 th. ~{s. Banfield will research HB310. / ":...Y Meeting was. ajourned at 3:40. r , -23- ----------------------- Page 200----------------------- 2/13 1 . HOUSE JUDICIARY COrIlMI~TEE I !/[IN'fJTES OF THE fvIEETING Wednesday, February 13; 1974 'The chairman stated that he would'begin taking testimony on Law and law, and ,order, bills., Order 'Legis. John Spencer, Attorney for the City' of Anchorage, was the rirst witness. He .said- that he would nbt go through all the ,particulars in all of the bills, but that the Anchorage Chief of Police and Mr ~ Joe Balf ~ Distr'ict Attorney, '\~ould have more specific comments. , ' ,'He 'said that during the first part of January he and his group had talked with the Anchorage delegation and had told them that legislative reform wa~ necessary_ 'Manythingshave'happened since then. One of the thinis is that they have appointed a committee to review thecrim1nal rules. They wanted to ask the legislature ror relief and some of the rules changes would • '.!)~}~ :,I(} !'L',!'~' so~ve,," some of their problems. He sai·d he 'realized 'that unless a person is exposed to these problems on a daily .. · basis they really cant realize the seriousness and magnitude ' , ':. C of it. He noted that he had:. talked to the governor on some of these serious situations and the governor has some bills entered to try and aid ~n tha arresting of criminal activities in the state. The problem ~temsfromthe fact that people 'commit offenses agamst property and people. The main' cate~ gories are burglary and robbery, which is increasing at an alarming rate. He said that from '70-'73 there was an 80 per cent increase and that the recidivism was astronomical. He didn't know the exact cause of this, but the fact remains that it is the case. The same people are doing the same things over and over again. For this reason~ there have been some proposals made to the legislature. He said there were some specific recommendations from Judge Lewis of the Third Judicial District. These were probably given to Mrs. Fischer or Senator C.R. Lewis. These have been prepared to rectify ~, ' certain situations.' . He felt that recidivism came about because'people commit crimes;' get out on bail; commit more crimes; and~ so it goes. It is a, question as to wheth~r or not you should put these people in j ail or give them rehab!li tation. Whatever we are, doing, nO~i is-not working. He 3aid their solution was to get these people off the street. There are' some bills in this package that :'1il1 do just that. He said they felt that the right to bail was inherent in the constitution. They want to place som~ manda- tory stipulations on the right to bail. Ba.sically, under the constitution it says bail will be ava:Llableexcept for capital offenses. We feel that there are other areas where it should not be so readily available and possibly prohibited., He felt -24- ----------------------- Page 201----------------------- . '2/13 Page 2 .' .this ~ight be part of the answer. (_. Mr. Spencer said there was a great need for a stat~tory defin- ition of a habitual criminal o~else a statutory definition of the· crime the person is being charged with after proor is very great and evident may be. sufficient to sho~'l the judge' that that 'Law and individual is a danger to the community and should not be . Order released on bail. There are various areas in which this should Legis .. apply: selling narcotics to juveniles,' rape, etc. Either. that or a large bail should be placed so that it would make it very difficult to get bail money_ He felt that when an individ~al is on a suspended sentence for a crime and commits.that same off~nse again wh~le on probation that that should be taken into account and even statutorilY'definE?d as being the rieces-' .sary element of being a danger to the co~unity. He said they had many cases of this in.Anchorag~. He felt that this condi- .'., . .tion was intolerable. He, also, said that many times it was . ~.felt that the sentence of the court was n6t sufficient to deal ;:with the.problem. For that reason we are asking for mandatory . sentences for certain crimes: r.ape, selling narcotics to ju.ven- iles, maiming~' Th~reare lai/vs giving minimum sentences fo~ habitual criminals but the courts have held that subsequent legislation has overruled gi~ing .minimum sentences to. Such an extent that a judge may give a suspended imposition of sentence or' suspend any portion of the unserved sentence. In that regard, we feel that the statutes must be clarified. (Ma"lone arrived 3 :25) 1ve feel that there should be some requirement to have some input to the parole board before parole is granted to an individual. We realize that'" there is a statute that allows an individual to serve 1/3 of the sentence imposed before one is 'subject 'for parole. There· should be a report from the prosecuting attorney's offi~e or the police function which worked on. the case. Mr. Spencer said they felt that more stringent controls.for parole to be successful is necessary to prevent problems developing from sentencing the individual and then seeing that same individual on the street soon thereafter. Anchorage delegation would .. support any legislation which would make it mandatory for the presiding judge' to have this input before parole is granted to an individual for a criminal offense in the state. Mr. Spencer noted that there was a bill on disorderly conduct. He said this was taken ou~ pretty much by the Supreme Court nationally in the last few years. He noted there was a dis- . orderly conduct statute passed; there had been a hearing near the last days of the session before it was passed. He feels that there is ~omething else needed. He said the Chief of Police would discuss this further. He said that ,basically they felt that the system is not working at the present ti~e. We have seen the statistics produced by the court system and they show an alarming problem does exist in the State of Alaska. He said he felt that the problem was acute enough at this point .and people are so aware of it that some legislative action \'/111 be necessary.\ve just hope that you don It over react. -25- ----------------------- Page 202----------------------- i.'2/13 J" ..: be controlled. Maybe~ven saying that plea bargaining could I not be done ~ITithout the permission' of ·the $u.perior C01..trt juqt;e .. i £ilany people iNtll disagree THith this. I believe that the C:J..3.es are going to have 'toget before the. court before you can blame the. court for not doing the job. There' is already a law on. habitual criminals on the books. It is a must for the police to 'report this; the court al.so is to take action. We have advocated that each and every case against and individual should be filed against him. I have heard it. 'said that this is too harsh. If you think this is too harsh, water it down so that it is realistic • .In the field of drugs--the only peo"ple we' are kidding are our....;. .selves.· The Family House concept has proved to me that you .. :;,:"can't cure the addict and peddlar by sympathizing with -them. '~He said they had contactedl36 mainline addicts; 36 went' to the treatment and as far as he knew only 4 finished the treat- .ment. To really cure an addict you have to literally straighten the person out and change his way of life. You have to also create an incentive for the addict to clean up. His next COlThllents related to> bail ... Gave' the ._example of an individual. arrested 1"or burg.Lary--J..!. .days J..ater again was 'arrested for the same offense. He was out on·bail. After further questionings, it was learned that the pepson had broke into 9 houses that day. He said he couldn't imagine .. ,.' any judge who sets out the rtiles for probation or parole not to expect the indi~iduaL to follow those rules. The probation officer or parole :Officer who finds one in his charge not following the rules set dow'n by the judge should see that the individual is taken into custody immediately. A hearing could be held after they are incarcerated. ~ 'If we don't thlnk the probation or parole officers .. have that much ability, then we need some different ones~ The same h· thing goes for policemen who don't make cases." This is the only way the probation officer can gain respect for the rules set down ~y the court. He said that a lot of this legiSlation isn't going to do any good, that iSj if you don't put teeth 'in it. " HB-39l - Disorderly Conduct. He had no 60mplaint with this ,bill. This would fill in where the municipal ordinances don' t ~ _"" • J' ", ~~•• HB 451 - He wondered if this wasn't a little bit too' harsh. He felt this shouldn't b~ any greater tha~ a misdem~anor.(False reports to a police Officer.} HB 452 - Firearms during commission of a felony. There already is a" law on th·is. This la\'; calls for a IO-year mandatory sen- t'enGe. This is apparently in conflict ~"ith another .3tatute." In many cases an individual may not use a gun bu~ only pretend to. He felt that the threat of the use of a gun should be con- sidered also. An6ther reason is that it won't take the robber long to know that you can pretend to use a gun and get your job done without beIng liable for the. mandatory sentence. HB 460 - Mr. Spencer commented on this bill. (Assaulting a '-27- ----------------------- Page 203----------------------- 12/13 Page 5 . pea·ce officer.) He felt this bill tl}'as. too broad ....The police' officer'may be struck by a drunk person) etc. He Telt that this bill could be amended in subsection ( a) tosho~I}' tl}.at a , .(~. person who assaults a peace officer with intent to do injury ~ould be better. If you are going to make it a felony then it should be a more serious type of assault. 'The Chief stated that it sould be easy for a person to be overcharged in a case like this. He didn't feel that assault should ,'. b,e.auto- . ~matically a felony .. He said that he had arrested persons who tried to· hurt him, but actually they ~I[er.en' tdoing him any harm. He said many people would strike at you in a given 'circumstance> but a few minutes laterwouldn 'teven think of doing such a thing. . HB-511-Release on Parole. The Chief said this was a ,good. bill • . .HB 512 - Minimum penalties for convic.tion of certain crime·s. He felt that there should .be somschange~ made in this bill. , He felt there should be an addition relating to disfigurement. Where you disfigure or cut·a person with interit to disfigure, using poisons or caustics, etc .in the eyes or ,face there should be greater penalties. It is' most horrible when some- one throws acid into the face of ~~other with the intent to disfigure. He felt t~at type of. individual should be dealt with se~erely. ,. HB' 513- Committing a felony. while out on bail. He had already commented on this. n' J iV .HB 515- Chief Hibpschman had no· comment on this . ·.l. ": HB 564·- Plea agreements. This is. good. It! leave5 the habitual offender out of it. .lo. ',' \. r .\ .McVeigh' asked the chief about· 'the transmissi6n of criminal recor . (HB 563) He asked about rap sheets sho~Ting qn the arrests but not the dispo~ition of the case .. He wanted to know if there was ahy way to show the disposition. He noted that when a person .... --- .. ··., .. ·~:-.,-·1s booked that entry is forwarded to the·FBI in.\vashington, D.C.· and placed on the person's rap sheet. Is there any system that can by devised to show the disposition? Chief; Hibpschman said this was a. serious problem all across the country. He·said the . system has broken down complp.tely in this·respect and.he doesn't ~,. kno~ what to do about it. Chief H~said he had to write l~tters to the court of jurisdiction in order to get a ~ertiried copy tif the case. Now there will be ~n automatic input ~nto the automated system giving disposition of cases. He thinks this will help things in our state but that nationally there will still be a lack in this respect. . . Mrs .. Banfie ld asked about HE 562' - Increased puni";;;hment for prior criminal conviction. Mr. Spencer said this is the bill that makes it "must, may, must" concept of habitual criminals. They approve of this bill. . . Chief H. commented further on HB 563 Transmission of records. He said he had no objection to this as long. as the transmission -28- ----------------------- Page 204----------------------- '_IIj Page: 6 was-a copy 'of the original. Mrs. Chance asked if AJISwas going to have the di3posi~ion of cases put into their sY.3te'm. The Chief said this was trtia. He t5airable.' He said they \'lere doing better than, most 'states in this respect. Typically it is between three 'and rour months'. There are some exceptions, of course--the ~ne in Bethel h~s,tak~ri over a.year. Malone . asked it a pe~son out on bail could be out over a month to 90 days. Tillion commente'd that. thi's,vas a long timeror a . repeater to beaut on bail. Mr.Soll said this was true. He also noted that if an individual has a high propensity to commit another crime, existingla~'lalready covers this . . He- noted that the changes proposed were.to change the Con- stltion. In some 'cases they are realistic -enough to know that it is an issue that they would be wasting time with the' '.,-"~ courts. There are certain people who are destined to remain "1n jail until trial, and; naturally, some after trial.· Malone - noted that the individuai could do a lot of damage in 3 to 4 months~ time. - M.,.,.o.'· "''h,.,~n.n "<::"r~~' ~ -f" ,., , '"',..~,. 'r'.,....'"'~C\.~~,+'"''Y> T~l'",.i ~-,... ...... .,....,.~ .... ..., 'h~-f"""'~~ ~· ...~v. v ...... u.......v"" ,"",r..I,,:\.""~ -L.J. ~ .-LV\Ju.-L ,tJ.J.VI>J\w\J-..I,VV.I. HV'-'I.-L~ Uo..t:-'..t:-',-"C4.1. u'- ..... V.I."" ,th_e committee .tomorro't~, February 14. Orsini' questioned Mr. SolI on ';~ :~; his statement regarding the police not paying attention to the technical aspects of the law. He asked ir he was indicating that they weren't doing their job.Especiall~ as it relates to getting enough evidence at the ti~e -6r arre~t in orde~ to prosecute. SolI said that in some cases this was t~ue. He said what he was trying to get across was that he didn't want the legislators to overact to this situation. He gave' an example from Anchorage regarding a cab driver and a rookie policeman pos- ingas a north slope o~ldriller. He asked to go to this notorious bar where they had prostitutes, etc. The cab driver was charged with pimping; the jury rreed him. -Orsini said he was trying to get a reel for and an obvious con-- cern about crime. The legislature feels that they shOUld do something about the increase in crime. He relt that maybe we could increase the runding ror police to provide more training for them and then they would be able to doa better job. He asked Mr. SolI if this would be the optimum use of ~he funds~ SolI said that if it was .spending money rather than changing the law, he was in favor of it.. Increasing knowledge and capability of the people serving as policemen \'lould be good. In this country being a policeman is not necessarily a posi- tion of honor. He said that he had observed that,in Canad~ the police are highly honored. Orsini said th3.t, ff given 3. certain -amount, should we hire more judges or sp~nd more money on rehabilitation and training police officers. SolI ,said there was need at both ends of the situation. Money was needed for the professionalism of the police and money was also needed for the advancement of programs'in corrections and rehabilitation. That way you wouldn't have to be worry- ing about plea bargaining. -40- ----------------------- Page 216----------------------- i ' 12/13 Page 18 Banfield said that she kept hearing fr~m peo'ple that say that I 0:"18· of the. 'ot'oblem3 is that thed'~fenselai/"yer3. p,3.rticularly j r the public ~eferider5J ask for delays in the ·triil~. They 3~y ! \. ,this is what. takes' so lo~g to bring cases to justice. Mr.· SolI said that theY- had. some problems because ·the'y". were not staffed at a predictable le~el to match.input in prosecutions. He said that appropriations for his office had grown like Topsy. They started out with just. a guess' of whatr they would need. "Each year he said the'y asked to. be brought to an acceptable level. He said .their neeqs have' 'never' been associated with .the appropriation. .He 'said they had been promised a little bit more each year. W'nen the ·appropria.tionmeets their sug- .gest·ed budget and they are better staf'fed there will still be delays. He said it appea:red that they were the receptacle of the system. , If t~e prosecutors can keep. bringing in the. cases to the court system., they have to put lawyers into court.. This takes place mostly in Anchorage~As an example, one man was to ·be in three trials in one week. . Chance wanted to go into these things tomorrow with the prosecu- tor and the public defender. Bhe said she had. heard some of the same problems as .far as staffing from the prosecutorts office.. She also;coInInented on the calerl,daring in the . court .. system. The same attorney may be scheduled ·to be in t,hree clirferent court rooms at the same time. This is something she would like to investigatci. '. Chance asked about the training programs for our police and the corrections officers. Ttllion said he had heard there was a high turnover. Banfiei.d. then asked Mr. SolI if he thought our prosecutors were also untrained in their work. She said that she felt that theAG was f~rced to· hire men right out.'of law school without any special 'training in ~he field of prosecution., He has a problem in finding people while at· the same time competing with private law offices and others. Mrs. Banfield'relt that he does a good job with what he has. She asked Mr. SolI if ne felt we should do more in training these people. Mr. SolI said he didn't have a ready answer. ror that because there_definitely is a problem. He said there is a level of idealism and enthusiasm with these new people. He said that the Public Defender's office gets a lot of applications from people ~ike this. They feel they can do society more good in this office and shy 'away from prosecu- :tion work. Mr. Tillion announced that the bill regarding postponement of divil proceedings when a person is a party, attorney~ or witness is a member of ,the legislature was submitted to the Chief Clerk t office today~. Th~s is HB 635. Meeting' adjourned at 5:55 p.m. The hearing will dontinue tomorr w. f .' \ .'-' '\ J ( j -41- ----------------------- Page 217----------------------- 12/11. HOUSE JUDICIARY CONMITTEE I r-rLNUTES OF THE rrEi:Er:lliTG' ( Thursday, February 14, 1974 Chairman Tillion called the me,eting to order at 3:10 p.m. in Room 106 of the 'Assembly' Apartments., Present were McVeigh, Beirne., Tillion., Orsini, Malone and Berry. The first witness \'ias Arthur Snowden., Administrative Director of the Alaska Cour..~~,~prYstem. Mr.· Snowden distributed a packet to .each·co:rrunittee~'-expressing the views of the court system on the law and order_ bills in this .committee. This information "was filed for future reference. 'He noted that in the chai~­ 'man's packet there were two opinions. One of the opinions related to the rights of th~ defendant in criminal proceedings ,to bail and the other related to the imposition of concurrent one-year terms of imprisonment and provision for parole at ,the discretion of the parole board. The'Supreme Court, ask~d' that the bills that"c~ll form~nda-. tory minimum sentence provisions have this provision deleted. ,,[TO cc...... ·m~_ ..... __ ~..:.l-.l- ..... ' _.t:> __ ~_~.__ , ~__ ,..._~_~_ ml_-":- C"'1------- .::a '/'"'f _____ .l- J..I.,W .-JUJ - .J...L:a.U.:lll.1.-1..v 1ICl.-1.. Vi. \';i.·-1...I.U~l.La.-1.. i.'ct...;U.J.'U.:l. .J..I..1t:: t.,,)U1J-L·t=lI .... , \.IUUL·v m ,en.dorses this bill and recommends its passa·ge .. HB 564 - Prohibits plea bargaining. They are opposed to this bill. They feel this is a necessary tool' in the administering of justice. ' . n, ;'h JJI HB 566 - Pre-sentence investigation report. This amends Criminal Rule 32(c) which presently provides for such reports ,when directed by the court. This~calls for the 'r~po~t by the Probation Service before imposition of sentence. If this bill is passed they recommend deleting who the report will ?e prepared by because there may be other source material. HB 570 - Reparation to aggrieved parties. The Supreme Court is against this because this would necessitate lengthy trials to determine damages. These would become part" of the criminal proceedings. This would place a burden on the Alaska Court System. rr the person is finanCially responsible there are already remedies available to the aggrieved party. HJR 67 - Release on bail. The Sup'reme Court believe,S that they have adequat~ power ·torefuse bail now if the person is considered a danger to the community. Therefore, there is no, need for this. They also ~eel that HJR 71 is not neces~ary. Mr. Snowden noted that .failure .to disctiss or COrfuilent on so:n~ of the l~ftislation was not intended to indicate ~ither approval or disapproval, nor were they intending to give any indication as to whether or not any of the bills or portions thereof might not be invalid for any reason. Mr. Snowden made some additional comments on HB 568 - Proba- tion and parole violators. He said there had been discussions held with the University of Alaska and it was felt that the -42- ----------------------- Page 218----------------------- J:'age 2 " Department of Parole and P~obation were overburdened now. Ha s~id they could rtot meet the requIrements for pr~-3entenc!~g reports now. Tillion said that it wasn't a necessity tD pass this bill. Mr. Snowden that that ~f they had funds provided . \--- to·the court system they would be in·favor of this' legislation . (Chance and Banfield arrived 3:16) Mr. Snowden also read the letter that had been sent to Senator Thomas on mandatory sentences. Orsini asked if this letter represented the consensus of the whole supreme court or just the Chief Justice. Mr. Snowden said that it was a unanim6us opinion but that Justice Connor was not there. Orsini asked if they received more funds would they have the ability to identify more of the- offenders. Mr. Snowden said they would . 'be able to do a better job. He said th~ ability does exist ·'".::';)~t~il&:?};{~s.¥';i-thill ::t:he justice department to handle these problems •. Orsini said that in view of the number or recidivists now .it appears these problems are not being handled now. Mr. Snowden said he didn't know about how many offenders out on parole were committing other crimes.. Orsini asked how i . familiar Mr. Sno~\jden was ~vi th the AJISprogra"1l. ·He· had a i paSSing knowledge. He is very new in htR p'osition; i 'Orsini felt that one of the p~oblems i~ the w~y the j~dicial i 'system is set up is that the justices have to be'periodically , approved by the voters. In ~his regard, there is no way for . the public to know if they approve of a justice or. not, this is just done traditionally. ~i, Orsini asked if there vlould be .\~ any information available ab'out the practices of justices. Mr. Snowden said he sa\~ AJIS as a cornmuilications net~vork and that was',why he took this position as director. He s~id he has delayed input into th~s system because he wanted to study to determine which things would really be of greQt bsnefit. He said when their component comes on he will request that information about the justices and cases will be placed in .the AJIS. Orsini asked when that would be.' He said it would probably be in July. Banfield asked Mr. Snowden 'how long he had been director. He said for six months. . Tillion hoted that with regard to HJR 67 - Release on bail - I' t • .~ ",the percentage of repeaters is too high, realizing that ~ ..,' ~.. I '·;.,statistics can be misleading" and the people are mad. Tillion said that there were cert.ain kinds of, criminals that' you can al\,lays parole and be certain how' things will turn out. The feeling is that trial judges are paroling, by giving bail, even the criminals that are making the high crime rate by comrQi ttingcrimes while out on bail. rv1r. SnoNden said that he lived in Anch6rage and fully understo6d what Nr.Tillion was referring to. He referred him to the rllartin opinion., McVeigh noted that there are severe problems even if you would make the constitutional change proposed. He said he .. could see arguments for bail that go'against the' presumption -that you are innocent until you are proven guilty. You cannot .'In.ake a decision in that area without some notic~ as to what 'bail is and if the person is innocent. This is one of the -43- ----------------------- Page 219----------------------- - r eol 10 Page 3 foundations- of our American' system. Mr. Sno~Hden felt: that if r (,,--. it wa::;!'). 't ar.;ain 3t th,:: Alo.ska Can·stitu.tion it sur21y ~1{3..i3 a~ainst ·the Federal one. He felt that the Martin opinion would have a veryp~ofound effect in that area. Chance asked about the 9. % of peopl-e that -were committing crimes while out on bail. - This was from·earlier testimony. Mr. Snowden said that his figures showed 4.5% were repeaters. He wanted to, . , ~ .. know if this figured in picking people up on outside warrants • (Beirne arrived 3:35), 'He said they were speeding up their trials -greatly. They assign one DA and one public defender with one ~ndiVidual judge. This way the delays will be eliminated. .' . " . : , - ., - - . ::.. . -McVeigh ask~d Mr. Snowden about HB 511 -Release on parole. This was not commented on in the letter. This referred to the . one-third sentence rule. Mr. Bnowdensaid that he was at the -meeting when this was discussed. This referred mainly. to. parole and probation and it was felt those agencies should comment on this measure. McVeigh noted that this does, affe-ct . the time the prisoner would serve. Mr. Snowden said that he would say that the Supreme Gourthad no ;·strong obJections. to this. No corn.ment in the letter was. not to indicate either approval ordi sapproval ., r'icVeigh said that if HB 511 were enacted and the judge gives :a man a 10-year sentence he, will have to serve' 3-4 yea~s before. '-being eligible. for parole ..Today if your sentence is over 180 . days you are eligible right-then. Since the judges are respon- sible for the sentencing he~felt_that should be influenced by the one-third provision. He felt the court should have a . comment on this. Mr. Snowden said that it would raise' an . , adminstrative problem. _ This will involve a hearing before . the judge approves. McVeigh said this was right if the person ,.. petitions the court. At the same time, he has to sho\1J' that the penalty is too harsh. It takes discretion away from the parole board and puts it with the court.- _This would have to be a philosophical decision to make. Mr. Snowden said he would talk to them about this subject. Chance and Orsini questioned Mr. Snowden on the rate of repeat offenders from testimony yesterday. He asked if all of these 36 were out on bail. Tillion sai,d they didn r t say. . ii' -Malorie a~ked about HB 563'- Transmission of c~iminal records • ,,'..... , He note.d that Mr~ Snowden had said earlier in his testimony that they were in the process of determining how the'infor- mation could be put into the AJIS . and retrieved. Mr. Snowden said they were more concerned as to "what" information would .gointo the computer. Ma~one· asked ift~edisposition of cases TtTould go into the system.. Sometimes a person's record will show that they ware arrested for va~ious thi~gs but there is no indication as to the final ruling. Mr. Snowden said that would be one of the things that would be red into the system. This will also be necessary to meet projections, do research, ..;,;:etc.. Chance asked why the courts had not gone to computer befor' now. -44- ----------------------- Page 220----------------------- 12/14 '. Page 4 Mr. Snowden said the reasop was that he had not been in hi3 j8b long" enough to know what wouldb~needed and m~atiingf~l .. C" Par this reason.., he requested to have a person to do research "-' on this before they implemented their component on.AJIS. 'He sai.d he expected to have someone in that position by March and they go on AJIS in July. Chanc~ said she wanted to see the disposition of Gases ent~red into the computer bank. She wanted to know whether it would be the responsibility of the courts to enter this information. Orsini also asked Mr. Snow- den if in his opinion the individual will benefit:by a short s~ntence and then iritegrate them back into s6ciety. He wanted . to know if there was any feedback on people that are convicted. He said there was a terrible lack in this regard. He felt you . could also consider this in social terms. If you put a person in for a long term, you can probably assure that he. will return as a criminal. We are also protecting society besides the orrender. Orsini asked about a judge that was continually in error. Mr. Snowden said no feedback was necessary in this case .'becausethe individual would have his parole revoked if he made ,too many mistakes.· . " McVeigh asked how Mr. Snowden felt' about ',a jU_Q,ge sentencing a person ~nd then that person X~ gi~en into the care and custody of ,another agency, such as co~rections o~ p~role where another philosophy rules ..Doesn't this create a conflictJ Say a judge gives him t,en years; he is turned over .to corrections.., and more times than not they are not aware of what the' judge had in mind for this individual.' Their philosophies are dif"ferent. You have a sentencing judge handle the administration of justice and then you have a social worker commenting that it would be . best, if the individual served no time at all. This' seems to be one of the problems. McVeigh felt that the judge should carry through and have something to say about whether the per- son serves his sentence or not. Failing that, we will have to I put in some mandatory sentencing procedures. It· evidently is !" not working the way it is now. Mr. Snowden said he was not prepared to discuss this in depth. He felt that the judge could say that the person cannot be let out on parole right now. Malone asked what happens when the parole board asked for a recommendation from the judge that did the sentencing and they received no report. Testimony showed this is happen- ing. He wanted to know why they didn't answer the inquiry. Mr. Snowden said .that he was not qualified to answer that question and he will speak to the trial judges on this matter and'report back to the ·committee. Malone said that maybe this was a problem and maybe there'· should bea policy decision on this. Banfield asked if the Supreme Court Justice was going to submit sugg~sted legislation to the committee. Mr. Snowden said that his office had not prepared any. He felt the only thing they needed was funding to accomplish their goals. He said· they did have some proposed rule changes. Mrs. Banfield asked if' they would be ready for this legislature. He said they have some prepared but nothing that is before this committee. They have a new advisory committee and the trial court has made great steps to straighten out that area. The rule he was talking -45- ----------------------- Page 221----------------------- Pag.e··5 ....\ . •'.;i,I about was on pre-sentenc1pg lnvestigatl.0nsand making. it mandatory, t-hat is if the -legis lC1,ture 'gi"es' us the money. ·Ban_field asked iftihacfiIr. Sno~iden ~\iaG caying Td3.5 th3.t if ( we pass this legislation that ~\fe should-be cure to see that these things are funded.. Banfield noted that there was 'no legislation to be·offered. Mr. Snowden said he hadn't said :~. . that. He just said that none had been prepared up until nOTtT. He. said they had four or five bills in the preparatory .stage·. Banfield next· asked about AJIS. She wanted some kind of idea of what Mr. Snow-den felt should be placed on the system. He ~aid he would like to see something on disposition of cases~ average length of sentences, information on repeat offenders, p1ea'bargaining in relation to trials, and this is.sohe can . better use the judges in the court system. Banrield asked if -. he was gOing to put individual cases in the computer. He said >1t 'Would go in under t.he defendant's name. _'. Banfield asked if Mr. Snowden had had any complaints from the , ,. .. " ~-superior court judges on the parole system we have in this state. He said they relt there were problems. They will be _. meeting and· discussing views and exchanging ideas so these' ....::..-. -can be resolved. He said they had tried not to attack any part of' the system. He reels that open discussion can solve many of the problems_ in the system.. Orsini. asked if there was a mechanism for this. ~Ir. Snowden said they only have the Governor's Commission.' ·He thought that· periodic me.etings between the leaders of the various components would be beneficial~ .~ . -. -:\..... 'lIcVeigh said· he didn't think!' .the committee could expect to' ') bear much from the judges on~ substantive legislation but. on1.y those whic"h change the court rules .. There is this separation of" powers and the judges have to rule on statutory correctness o~ law •. Mr. Snowden said this was correct. Ha1onebrought up the discussion from yesterday on. the dangerous .character who-is loose on bail. For the court system the typi- ca1 length of time it takes a case to get to·trial was about three months. He asked if that was a reasonable length of. time. What can be done to speed up trials? Mr. Snowden said that strides had been made. It is' his opinion that the' quicker they can be brought up to trial !Ueans greater justice. There are many ways they can improve and additional funding is one • • dditionalfunding.should be given to the public defender and the AG r s office; but don't forget there' are probations. and corrections, too. They are all· involved. He said there was a·pilot project going on in Anchorage where they have a public def"ender and' the DA working with one judge. This has had . initial success. ··1 Malol1e returned to his previous discussion. He said what it rea1ly amounted to is that the longer'a person is out on bail. the more danger he becomes to the community. He said that vas the reason.the resolution on bail was prepared. Mr. Sno\'fden note'd that true justice takes time, also. Chance sa1.d she remembered testimony sho\,Ting problems with the <. . , .' .' ., -46- .' . ----------------------- Page 222----------------------- J 2/14 Page 6 calendaring of ca3es.. i"Ir. Snot1jen that that is one of tl1~ problem:3 they are working on and they h 2VG .:lnot ~1er prob lem steInming from the fact that·they have no consalidating func- tions.between offices so that get more of a. prospectus on how to handle the cases. He said that when 'they get the bugs out 'it will be much more efficient. Chanceasked'about havin.g one DA and public defender assigned to one judge. What if" ·a defendant comes in and challenges. the judge. The person would be challenging his O\\Tn defense' .attorney and his own prosec~tor. Snov-Tdenthought this· was easy. If you assign the case fairly early the. challenge has· to. be made 1~ithin f'ivedays. Chance felt there was also 'a problem because people look upon some judges as hangman's judges and they also look upon some prosecutors as being i : ·)lirtners. Mr. Snowden said that he would speak to the· Supreme Court about this. Chance said that she hadn't thought ,about repealing preemptory challenges because she felt this would cause f'urther administrative entanglements and might cause' more confusion in the courts. . IVIr. Sna"VlJden said that he had reviewed the allegatian that the great . trial attorney will win so. manycases--justice should be . decided on the facts ,of" the case.' Chance said there had been discussion as to haw to encourage the retention of professional prosecutors. She wanted to know if he had any suggestions. Chance asked if bringing ,them into. the judicial retirement system would help. Mr. Snawden felt that Mr. Garsuch cauld better answer that. Chance ~aid t~at ·she wanted the judges opinion on this. .' . Malone asked if a plan was' being developed far the pay. classification scale for the court system. Snowden said that·it was. He said that he had to appear befare House Finance when he left this committee today. He will return to this committee tomorrow onHB 411 - creating a fifth jUdicial district. Melissa Middletan, Alaska Youth Advacates, was the next witness. She had material on runaways for all committee members~ She testified against the legislation pertaining to runaways. (SSHB 43) She explained ho,'l Yauth Advocates worked far these . ... ~" people. She said young people come to them and say they have ;-'1 ''1,:",.:4. .. run away fram home and dan't know what to do. She said that one day she had three on the pho~e at the same time. She saia that the kids they have seen fall into. two categories. They are either flee'or fight. They have a difficult time expressing themselves to autharity--mostly, their pa~ents. . 'Often the only.way they can express the{r!feelings'is~to run away. 'l'hey ar9 c:-ying out in despair and'thi's is 'only tran- sitory in nature. Young people graw out af' this. Very few . are age l6--most are from 12-15 age category. Many af the ones that they see meet with the parents and the young. people go back home agai~ within a fe\'l days. -47- ----------------------- Page 223----------------------- Page 7 T!1en ag::tin, there are many that don't. ·go ho:ne right away. They won't even stay in placement anywh~re. , , \ .-- These bills primarily address the chronic runaway. There are many cases that do not' comeintothisc·at:egory. She felt that the present·bills would ~xaggerate the situation of running away from things. If young'peopleare going to run away--they would just have to go underground. They ~ . .;.. - . ,wouldn't come into the Yo·uth.Advocates, off'ice, f'or instance.' They wouldn't come to the youth service center either. They would' find closer allies in other transients'. People who " themselves do not surface in the more legitimate community activities. She said they have conservative homes, single parents, and young adults who are willing to help these " ,;.~,",3.olJ.I1g people. Under these restrictivecondi tions the kids ,,">:1::~:c::~~;ttJ.d ;'go find some GI 's. 'She has ,already talked to so~e " ~ . of them about this. She said this was ,a GI problem as well as a r~naway'problem . .The runaway is ',often only saying' that there is something ,wrong in the family. ~vhena child runsaTtray this is a crisis , in his life.' That is the time to work with- tgem.. It is als'o "an emotional tiffie. 'If" youat'rest ~hem Cil.; that; time it is a cop out and the child is removed from ,the s·ltuation.. The child then doesn't have to handle the situ~tion. If yqu do th~s you won't get anybody's cooperation. " ' She said that she had worked with a girl who had been a rrin- 'away. She had been tbrough +drugs and armed robbery. 'What , " would have been her opinion?' She would have hated her parents. Runaways' are a family problem." She said there 'were resources in Anchorage that are not visible that are n"ot being 'used. They could be used., She felt that Anchorage should increase the alternatives for families. These agencies should become. more visible. There is a sti~ma when you go in to counseling. Most of the parents refused to take counseling even though there was an evident problem. They grew up "in' an 'age when only crazy people went to counselors. The borough presently has two groups going. , She said that she was attending ,one that works with parents ,,·,~,.,.,that have runaway children. Community College has free coun- . ',812.,ling or on a sliding fee basis and PTA was talking about neighborhood crisis centers •. Then there would be a place to go.' At least the community was' thinking about it. These are set up for runaways particularly .. At fi~st it is ,~asier for these children to function in an institution rather than reenter the home. The oth~r thing that, these neighborhood .centers do is provide a place for th~ pa1ents to get ~ogether.j . ' ,_1 • These bills would label these youngsters as delinquents. You, thereby give them a status. This becomes a notch on his belt . .Miss Middleton said that she had seen kids change overnight. 'Il)' -Then when you get into the adult community this has a negative II efrect with teachers. She said that she would hate to see a ,£hild that run away be put in the category that they don't d-eserve. -48- ----------------------- Page 224----------------------- 1:; 71L~ Miss Middleton said she had studied what other state·s 1iTere , doing. MasJachusett3two ye~rs ago cl~3ed down all its juvenile instltutiono. In the packet she d~3tribut~d.there are' the opening remjrks from a conference that was held .. There was an article published a year later and said that this system was working well. This plan cost $4,500 as . opposed to $11,000 in an institution. So there is a ve~y . strong financial reaSOn for thisplan~ Miss'Middleton suggested that webeef·up group homes and ,counseling services. She said she wasn't suggesting that we do this here but that it was working well in that area. (Copy cif mate~ial is in the file.) .She next made reference to the runaway youth act from the I" . Birch Bhye hearings of'thesubcommittee. This is what set up .the youth center.s across the country. She said she had' the whole book.. '.' : ", :, ...... 'At McLaughlin now the'y have sufficient counselors and they are training the staff to function onhlgh lev~ls. They take a child into the program and they classify him with regard to maturity and then a~ to behavior. Eachcottage has a different type .of therapy that fits the classifica- - tionofthe child. This plan originated with a youth authority· in California. An interesting thing in that -. study is that there is quite a difference between those kids that are institutionalized and those placed in homes •. There'is overwhelming success" with the treatment project. She told the committee not td put these kids in the institution.· .The institutions are not looking forward to handling runaway children. She said that she really felt that. this would be a step backwards. Beirne asked Miss Middleton how she felt . about publishing names of juveniles .. She said she didn't think they should publish their names. She felt this was important to the young people. This affects future employ~ent, what schools you can attend, etc. It will' .....______ .hamper them later in life if you publish their names. Tillion. asked if she objected to this for repeaters. She said Yes because she felt that juveniles should be treated differently .. : ... .At least until they are age 18. ,That way the youngster won't ..get publicity regarding his crimes. Malone commented that what ~·we have now might be overprote6tion and leading to disre~pect of the law. Miss Middleton felt that juveniles could be taught respect. for authority without having heavy punishment. Banfield asked more ~bout Youth Advocates.' . She said tha~it was a nonprofit corporation. The board of directors receive funds' from the Youth Development Fund. They conduct surveys, conduct para- legal investigations and also provide counseling. \ve inform the kids so that they know about what can happen to them in :1~court or how they can ~et back home with their parents. -49- ----------------------- Page 225----------------------- 12/14 'I' • Page 9 I ; 3h~ s'aid that they also work Hit~n group.;; .af y()!J.n~ p20ple to i c'-- do things on their own behalf. She said she was here to t speak for the kids who couldn't be here. They also publish a J.uvenile hand book. It 1s be1nglooked at by the attorneys now. Banfield asked hO~1 mariywereworkingthere. f'iIelissa said there were four., One is i VISTA volunteer. She said she had a background in ~o11t~calscience, the VISTA person, and had worked on bail reform and prison reform. Chance asked about the book on juvenile' rights. Did~this include the responsibilities? Melissa said it stresse~ not only what the rights are but also the realities. What expected reaction would be in certain circ~mstances. ~Malone asked what depth of knowledge that these young· people have of their rights and responsibilities to society. S,he said it was very shallow. Very few are aware of their right" to have an attorney at delinquency proceedings. She said .in fact most didn't even know what one wa~. They don't even . understand why they can't, run away. ' Herb SolI, Public Defender, was the next,witn~ss., He started out by s,3,:{ing that he .found that fi~Gm ffiembers- of' i.,lie c.;ummlctee and witnesses that there isn·it' a'lack of statistics. He would .:' '.' ·saY,that it requires a first hand look at the system to. see if .the,evils are going on., ' ,Since you have convictions cleartsed from a ~ersonTsrecord "1\ aft,er a number of'years the :Judge can't get this information __ .Jl in order to render a proper sentence in' future crimes.' The probation department is the one that recommended this. This seemed to be all right for young people. If they successfully completed the period of' the probatiort they would receive a certif'ic~te. The judge told Mr. SolI that in his personal experience statistics showed that 95 per cent had come back and· still had a purged record certificate. On the question of bail. This is assuming that there have "_ ... ,--,- ... been abuses of the bail system. This is just the application of the present bail law. This is upholding the prosecutorial side by the DA's. If they can show anyone of a number of elements failing, then they would have a high bail set and : ~. could keep the individual in jail .. I can say that if there ! ' ; . has been a failing there have been moves to correct this. He noted that there had been even before thi9 body cbmmenced its session a definite and noticeable tigh~ening up of , releasing people on bail. Maybe this was because the public . was so concerned. Today if a young person gets involved' in cri~e) before that person can be released, he would at least antici~ate a formal hearing in court, producing witnesses as to his normal behaviora patternsr You would also need a secure place for him ~o reside. There would have to be a report filed immedlately if there \'ias . !,ii,",) f' any change in conditions. This is not someone who seems to be i1 a pretty level character;' We are talking about a case of a person who has committed a felony . ..;.50- ----------------------- Page 226----------------------- Page 10 ' Th~3e ~ould include robberies, burglaries, etc. He didn't ~es a ne~d for a constitutional amendment for anyone to deny bail. Present law giv~s the judge the power to set the bail so high ,that the person c.an' t get out. ~1e' have people sitting in jail \ITi th very large bail amounts . ., Mr. SolI made mention of the new team approach of the court system as portrayed by Mr. Snowden. He said that' he \~as ~'lorking on a case that trial w:as set for. next F:1onday. Herb said this is really record ttme for getting a case to I trial.~vhen you have these three working together they can' . evaluate which cases should b~ handled first. There is also' the danger of incarce~ating a person a long time. This . ; would be as long as the judge understands that other cases could be held over without harm to the individual .. Pressure is bein~ brought by the legislature and by the privateciti-: zens. Mr. SolI said that he agreed with what Snowden said about maximum sentences. He gave two examples of leniency by j udge?--rape--vTas giyen ~ne year. This was because the facts were such that the ·judge had his doubts about what had really happened. The tendency is also to investigate the conduct of the young · lady involved. The other was where a man toolc a tire iron . to another man and just le'ft him there. He was given pro- ·bationary sentence by Judge Lewis.. The public has .advised them that·these decisions were erroneous and that they expect serious violent crimes to be '~andled more severely. This is the tenor of the Anchorage ar·ea. But if you remove this 'discretion from the judges--they even have the right to make' mistakes. If you pass this, you' will ·also include the. kid next door ·and expose him to this same harsh treatment. He said that the Chamber of Commerce and the Bar Association had a committee worki.ng on this. He also said that he had offered to take these'suggestions to the court system. Mr. SolI said that it was necessary that the judge have broad discretionary powers. Mrs. Banfield asked Mr. SolI if testimony she had heard , . about the Brothers was true. Did he represent any of the i "Brothers ff? He said he remembered some of the fello~~s who ; , .... ·to.:" wore the jackets--these were on min6r cases. He said they w~re not retaining counsel, for all of these· guys. ' Mr., HackneY, Representative from Fairbanks, testified on the subj~ct of ~aw and order. He said that he was interested 1n'hearirig'S6il's comments. He saitl the situation of the "Sr6thars n Ha.;J one of the re9.sons that hi3 name appe ..ired on one of the bill~. -He said that he ha.d spent sa:ne time in court, observing only, and was sure that all would recognize that some of these, bills were put in here to. send a message. ·Part of that messag~ is obviously getting home. We have b~en hearing from some of the peace officers, courts, and corrections! all talking about the set of bills. He said he was interested -51- ----------------------- Page 227----------------------- : 2l1£l J "', ~ .' Page 11 I the Ari~horage'testimony yesterday. Fro8 what he hed~d~ it wa~ <::! ~rid~~!t that the :mC388.g8s1\Tc2re getting through to SOf:le of ~he { judges already. He 'said that the judges in Fairbanks vI/ere \ handing out sentences like you play' roulette. The people there are' sick of it~ . . On HB 460 - Assault on a'peace of~icer. There is strong feel- ings, on this bill. Mr. Hackney said that he concurred with Anchorage Police Chief's testimony where be indicates there should be a provis~on on 'intent b~ing speCified. There is only so much you can do when you are a policeman handling. drunks, etc. He gave some figuresf'rom actual histories covering the period of January 1973,to November 1973. 109 , . cases went into this report. These are'what you would call trivial. This would be having clothes torn of'f, wrestling, kicking, struck in the face,' hit with f'ists', pushed, spat upon--these are things that peace officers contend with in. their, line of work . . .He said the thing' that he wanted to bring out· was that there' is not going to be very r.i.uch happen to Y0U if you assault a policeman. This causes loss of respect 6fthe officers. The::se cases are brought toth>e jUdges. The~, what happens? Cases are dismissed or party is found not guilty by a'jury. Now you want to put on additional attorneys, judges, corrections, more staff. He said that we legislated money for those who committed the crimes but pay no attention to the v'ictims~· . He felt that an equal amount·.,should be 'spent on the other side of crime. This is more!'than a law and order ·package. , .·There will have to be additi6n~ funding to give the. ~verage citizen the protection he feels he is entitled to. He said he hoped that the committee would make some changes. -Mr. Hackney also desired speedy action by the committee. McVeigh said that after talking with the, police officers 'they felt that HB 460 was too strong. They felt that in the ,.. '~.'. normal course of their duties they come'into contact with people--drunks, emotional people) angry people ,where physi-: _~"._ .._ .....~--.-.--.-.~....- cal·force" is used against them .. Thiswouldn f t include a lethal weapon, of course. If this law were enacted'this would make a felon out of anybody that would strike a police officer, corrections officer, or "a fireman .. He couldn't see how to' amend this bill unless we could say' "with intent to do' bodily, harm.~' Mr. Hackney. said he would a.gree to ,that:, change e- , Malone said that after hearing testimony, he got the impression . that the major ~issing link 1s the ~ack of the· Judge acting properly. Hackney,felt that adding more enforcanentofficers , the judges wouldn't be in any wors~ shape than they a~e now. He said that he really objected'to the way sentences are handed down now. There is such inconsistenc~.· Th~re is no particular pattern for the sentences. He said there was a deterrent quality about going into court· if you have com- i'~' mitted a crime knowing that so and so '1s going to happen to you. Today, it is a known thing that the odds are on your -52- ----------------------- Page 228----------------------- Page ,12 , side and you won't hav~ togo td trial. Malone a3ked Mr. E~i'::!kn'2.~f if he h8..i, read' -the letter frcm .Rabl!1owitz. ;,rhere was indlciation that they are going to make some c~anges. It is to be the policy of the court that they are going to review whether the sentence was to~severe or twlertient in order to reform the individual to the social norms. The judge would still have a ,lot or discretion. In many cases we might be PUSbfug a lot of these things into plea bargaining and mandatory sentences. Hackney said that he had talked toth~ DA about pl~a bar- galnlng. He said that it was necessary to prevent a great lot of cases actually coming into court. He may be right I ~on this. Hackney' felt that you could have a case of 't'lhere i' a prosecuting attorney has a desire to someday become a 'judge--he can rack up a rate 'of convictions, and nobody can , disprove the convictions. He thinks this is used by prosecut-, ing attorneys to project an image of themselves. Often he :found that this takes place on a very hasty basis--the DA 'comes running into court--say about five minutes before the :.j.,.' session. ,Hackney stat~d again th~t thes~ were not felonies but only minor crimes. , I Michael p'eterson , rrom the AG's or.fice vIas the next perso~ to 'testify. He said that he would concur gene'rally in the statement that Mr. Snowden had read with respect io the court's positiqn on many of these bills. He said that we do have a pr~blem in terms of accurate statistics. It seems to depend upon with whom you converse. Each segment of our government keeps its own set of statistics and they differ. Obviously when the AJIS system comesintc operation, and we have accurate statistics as to what is happen- ing the complete system~ then we can really examine some of thes~ problems to see i£ they are as severe as they are supposed to be. For instance in Fairbanks, on 300 case riles only between one and two per cent were committed to a prison, put on parole, or let out on bail. This was done to give us some idea,as to the frequency of the 'problem, maybe., Examin- ing this in more detail the Division of Corrections an~ the Court System may have 'more clean statistics. This is just - ." < ~ - ~ for an illustration. There is a need to develop a system ',. """ .. for a statewide set of statistics to \vhich we can all refer -,' ." 'when we address the problems. He said that he had nothing to add on plea bargaining. He said that he believed that if it is substantially reduced or eliminated it w.ill have to be a serious commitment by the ~e~islature 'so that the resources ire provided to permit, more ca3es to be t~ied. lti the prosecutorial section for fiscal year 1973 they .prosecuted 11,867 cases. 10,213 were misdemeanors; 1,654 felonies; 70 ,,We.re appeals. Each of the prosecutors handled 495 cases. This varied from 170 for senior felony,trial'attorneys up to a mixture of 800 cases in one instance. -53~ ----------------------- Page 229----------------------- 2/14 1 The maximum caseload from other studies has recbmmended there I sh·Juld b(~- !10 more than 400 -mi xe·j ca.:3es·. r-h:: 3a:!..r.:l tha.t the:! were now operating at something like ~ 25X'6ver?ge accDrd- ing to the reco~mended maximum. He said this tends to prQ- . duce a logjamming effect in the prosecutors office~ This \ ............,...../ mak~s a difference on the system in-terms of ~ncoming work and the proc~ssing work. It is their view point that they could use an additional number of personnel for monitoring those persons with w~om they have supervisory charge. . .. ~ - '.~ . . He next commented on the experience levelin·their office. This is something that has been blown into a- caricature that this office is not run with staff" who are experienced peo~le. He ~aid that he took a survey and gave the length . ;-of combined years of ~xperience.. In the Anchorage off"ice "it was III years of law practice experience. This ranged . from 21 years of experience .to 6nlya few months. He ga~e specific figu~es for the Fairbanks office. They have five ·attorneys; one DA, and 4 assistants. This was a.total -of 30 _years' experience ranging. from 15 years to t\,lO months. The degree of turnover has beeri --less than in the civil I ~ .- - - ... p~o6eeding3. They have been able t6. retain in the two . largest offices quite a fe~l experienced prosecutors. He':' ---, ga.ve the ratio of win:losscases starting w~th trial to :I . adjudication for misdemeanors· has been that they have·taken 97 'per cent of the cases before' the courts. Sixty-nine per cent· went before a· jury;68 of which were felonies~ -- . (- . \ - There are problems with, maintaining experienced staff. This -'--':-~---'-. . iJ' relates to some sort of caredr cycle situation. - Frequently ~._i _.' . 'when we hire someone we try t~ pay them more than a private com~any would pay them. After a period of a few years the "opportunity for them individually enter private practice where they can make substantially.more money draws them away" from our office.' We find that we can expect something in the way of career cycling within this office. The aver- .' age time is about three years. Even with this handicap the ,.. office has been able to maintain.a level of experienced - personnel. There will be some recognition-of the need for -----·· .. ·-an-increase-·in salary 'which will' offset the 'p'ull of private practice. He felt that it was essential that we keep track of the various components of the whole system. When the legis- lature created the special drug dlvision in the state troopers last year. The Law Department was not funded for the addi- tional work they,. had to do. They had to handle a large num- . ber of drug related cases .. They._ tried to minimize the effects by having; one man work. with the drug unit.' The other offices had to pick up the slack rrom him. One of the things that has been a chronic problem when you underfund one segment of the system is that you make it more difficult for the othe~ seg- ment to work with the und~rfunded portion on the pro-cessing of the cases through the system. If you could handle the case more promptly there would be a reduction in the cost of m~intaining the individual. One thing to do for the favorable retention of experienced prosecutors is give !them some recog- nit~on of this in salary benefits besides an adequate increase in the number or personnel to permit the attorneys to be more -54..:. ----------------------- Page 230----------------------- I2/14 :p'3"".o ...' II, ·\00100"'" I proficient. If you are so loaded down that you can't handle I the ciJ~s properly you are benefIting no one. While the SY3- I ~. tern i~ 0xpari2ncing some public comm~~t ~nd while ther~ t t certainly'are problems, he relt that through the mechanism of the informational meetings they may find some way to try to overcome ~ome of these problems.· It is al~o possible to significantly improve the. coordination. This requires an appropriate 'relationship between the components. . J The AG's spokesman' commented on' the .specialproject in Anchorage where the DA, Public Defender, and the judges were : working together using the teamconcept--this .has made a tremendous improvement on the time or bringing a case to ctrial. There was on~ recentlythattoo~ only 18 days . .This is the kind of response we get when.wemeettogether. " ~ • It" : . . .~ Banfield asked him who makes the decision t~at a per~on ~ill . be prosecuted, after they have beenarre~ted by a police officer. TheDA answered and said that this was made by the DA or an assistant DA. The polic'e arres-t the individual, report same, - .' and the arrest record is passed on to the DA, then he compares the charges with the police report; disctiss things ~bout the . case with the orficer and then the DA mak~s·the determination .. as to what he wi~~ charge the individual with. This is all based on rules of evidence. He said that it was extr~mely , difficult for the policeman on the job because he" has to make decisions quickly. One way t.o help him is through better . (0" training programs. The. troopers' academy in Sitka has been a great improvement. Pqlice programs would be encouraged 'r;~l so the police could get more.'familiar with the rules of evi- ·dence. Some refresher courses could also be given with regard to recent trends of law ..Banfield asked ir there was anyone who ~ent over the DA's records to see if he is "failing to prosecute or is he' strictly on his own. The DA said that ih a typical office he is fairly much on his·~wn. He said he would take a greater interest ina DA's activities when he thinks there are problems. The volume of work is so great that it is through periodical management reports that they receive from the field offices along' with a few conferences that they are able to maintain a kind of supervision pbssible under the circumstances. No, they do not check every case. George Malekbs~ rep~esenting the Eagle River Action Group, appeared before the committee expressing his opinions of law and order. He said that he had been in Juneau a 'week ago. He had followed the -echelon to Juneau, gone to the police department and talked to· Colonel Dankworth. He said he had found the problems to be basic problems that have been around for a Icing ti~e. He said law enforcement agencies were not fa6ing the outcries of the people." They jus~ keep on doing their jobs and not thinking about ~'ihat~he· people -are doing. He said the people from Eagle River were not happy, and~ in fact, were sad and upset about what they feel has been taken away from them. He said they somehow .forget that they are the voice of the people. The people there want justice. We don't want the burglar on or in the street. The judges -55- ----------------------- Page 231----------------------- 12/14 Page 15 " . I . are not doing their jobs and the publi6 defender is chosen I ,to be the excuse. i,Ir. N3.1eko3 said that he' heard the publ:':!, defender tell you th~t the motorcycle group--they knocked out.my front teeth. Told about what took plac~ in'his place of business. The police broke up the disturbance. Iwas further th~eatened. I would like to believe that this is the USA. You seem to be tying knots into the system. He said' he heard someone mention communications. tvhy aren't the judges putting these people in jail and keeping them off the, streets. I have heard liberals and conservatives e' We are, all saying the same thing. vle just haven't gotten to the problem. Until you get to the crux of the matter there will be no pr.ogress. You have 'that pONerhere in Judiciary so don't aS'k me ~'lhat to do. ,AlSO, don't make me live with them. I bave chosen to be a good citizen, pay my taxes', am a voter and believe in the constitution.' Are we dealing, 'away our human rights? I don't see the solution by passing 'any of th.ese bills. ,It is a ste'p . The:t;hing 'is, the judge has the ability and power to, ta.ke c a man off the street-- this is not unusual. One of the bills says not to allow cruel and inhuman treatment ..It is youro_job to get 'him, off the street. If ~ou don't, we will see that-you don't, come back here to represent -the" people. Then \ve- will get somebody who wlll take care of these matters. He read a poem written by a little old lady while making candy' in her kitchen. He 'asked the committee if we couldn't '(-- protect our own people. He ~aid the people in Eagle River are telling their children tq protect their ownselves. \~_/, '. t .: . He said that he hadn't heard "the term "hardened criminal ". There are a lot of them. Do I bave to pick up a gun and kill somebody? He said the people from Eagle River are not apathetic but they had sent- him to speak for them. They will writeletters--but what is the use--nobody listens. Many people throughout the state are disturbed, too. You will hear talk about judges because people are unhappy with them. Malone asked George to keep one thing in mind about this ,__ ._,_.'_, ..commi ttee. We don't know the,_answers. ----That ,is what we :__ ._,- .---- are trying to find out. He noted the information of Mr. Sheffield on yesterday. This was new information. \ve are picking up a lot of inrormatibn f.'rom these hearings., It may mean.tha~ a lot of new legislation will-be enacted. It will result in some laws directed to the problems being brought out •. Malone said that he had not ~xperienced being victimized. 'He noted that 'the parole board had conducted 14 hearings in one day. He felt there was a problem there. There i's ,also a problem in the judges section., He didn't ,thirik the answ~r would be contained in,one single piece of .- legi31ation.' The buck ~oesn't stop with. the legislatu~e, but certain things depend almost entirely with it~ The· . funding required for the changesirt proper police protection and prosecutIon lies with the legislature. We \'1i11 probably be able to prepare 'concurrent ,legislation--better than we have to remedy some of th~~e things. The~e has been consideration -to setting up an afficein EAgle River because ~e bave seen proof that some of the things that the police are doing is not, the ,will of. the peo.ple. -56- . ----------------------- Page 232----------------------- Page 16 It is evident that what we vote on here should be of a high mor,al stnndar:l. I \ Banfield said that she' 'repres'ents this community so she . can 'understand the problems as presented. The parents are . screaming about law and order~-they say kill all the rest of those kids--but when it is their own thei want them let off. Take the drunk driver--I just had a little too much ,to drink--and wants to be let off., She said there was' an , attitude about today that says "Hit everybody else hard but let ~e androine alone." She said that the public has the' res,ponsibility to be ready to stand up and take their own medicine. Mr. Malekos said that their efforts had been so futile. He said that it takes two sides to create a problem. He said that the younger people did not respect the police officers. Banfield asked whose fault that was. He said that it was the parents. He ,said that his father 'rehabilitatedhim about three times a day. He. said that he had overheard teena~ers say they couldn't wait to get out of the'hous~. He ~aid that is his hbuse there ~as no such thing--they respected each other. He iaid he w~3nft any different TtThen he l.'J'as young--:-swiped hubc'aps, etc. ,but whe'n a police oi'ficer pulled up along side they stopped. What' you really worried about was what would happen to you -when you got home and what would the neighbors think!!! (- You can't win any respect'when you are arrested one day \ and turned loose the next. Rehabilitation programs are' "~,-,,; .not very good. He asked the :pomrnitte~116t to forget the people who are good. Mr. Malekos said that the delegation from Eagle River s~pported what Spencer and Hibpshman said in their pr~sentation. They know more about what is needed. The' only first-hand knowledge they had was what had happened to them at Eagle River. ~, . . :,-,- 'l'he elderly gentlemen from Eagle River said that he had'- never had to lock a door in his life up until now. H~said that now he has a"gun in every room in the house,in the barn, and in the chicken coop. Everyone is loaded. He said that his wife'was alone this-night and wondered if anyone on the committee kne\'l what .it was to live in fear. He obj ected to the public defender'soffic~ handlin~ cases for thos~ com- mitting the crimes. This is a sore subj ect with him. He' didn't think it was fair for the criminal to get all the benefits. They' are represented by attorneys and then we have provided a 5-1/2 million dollar_ "country club" for the:n at Eagle River. We are subsidizing the criminal ~n his lif2 of crime--even get~ his laundry done. All of thi~ money is coming from us--the p~ivate citizen. That is no prison there-- I it is just a "country club". He mentioned the efforts of the !,,~--i sportsmen in their attempt in taking of game out of season. The people are disgusted. They won't even appear as a witness, against a murderer because they just let them go again. He said that one-man, had a job with civil service and he sold meat on the side. -57- ----------------------- Page 233----------------------- ~ ') I, L I '-/...L. • The evidence was available so they too~ him to court and ,I "R.ed'? '~'{a,J J. (Ni.tnes~3·. He tool\: annual 1·2ave~ Thl=.:! r'lrst day . ~ r thecQ.se ~!a3postponed. The next t~-'lO days ~i2re spent in . selecting a jury. It took five days before the trial started. The.man was found guilty by£the DA and the judge turned to the man and gave him a $SOO;'and. then asked the person if he cou14 afford the fine. ~e said that he couldn't so the judge suspended the )sentence. The' next day this same man was out on the townbragging·about this. It just 'doesn't'pay to let things like this .·happen. '. . . He commented on naming juveniles. He felt the young-person could be helped more by making known who they are than keep- ing all of thisquiet.~.Everybody c6uld watch him and tell him· to straighten his ~ays.· There are diff~rent view points on this but that is how he feels. . Malone asked about the l'ish and game' violation. Was the . individual represented by the public defender? The elderly 'gentlemen said that he was. Malone noted that superior court '.....judges comes up on the ballot every four years for c0nfirmation.. '.' He told rlIr. Malone that four years ago nobody knew- who the man I' was so they voted for him. B~nfield noted that we havepienty · - of laws but. that they need.to be enrorced. '.' '. Jack Arnold, with the Eagle River delegation, was' next ·to testlry. He said that they were trying to represent the .... voice of the many people who .... wanted to come here and - speak _. (.... but couldn't be here for one treas on or another. He s aid that "~D "-..~ . ·he knew we realized that ther majority of the public input is-·L , ~. from people who are able to spend the money to come before . you or are sent by a group •. He wondered if the committee' realized that there are things happening in areas of fhe s.t·ate that they don't see. You are not familiar with our , "problems. I was indignant--had a bad taste in my mouth-- ./,/ over the things that have been happening in my communi ty. -This comes from loss or my own self-respect and ~hat I know ,," is loss of respect to the people who represent us. He said _. __-'-_____ ... _:.,._ ..that he had come to. the place in.his·.lifewhere he is .fairly· well disciplined. He said that he had been raised up like everybody else. He said that the things close to his heart --examples like reading in the paper that our society has debased itself to the position where we read of the education of a 9~year-old child in order to~escape rrom a rapist. It was very evident.that we had a problem' and he was not' proud - of that. Imagine the little old lady--60 years' ofage-.- with a shotgun. She is of .a p.ioneering age. There was some- thing that George didn't tell you. She s~id that if anyone hassled her aga'in she would send. them back to Jesus. Her heart· is broken ·because people do these thing~ to her. You ~ee a little old man go on patrol to help protect' hIs neigh- bors and their property. He had no business doing thi~. He was about 67 or 68, .frail of build. He also had a nervous "."--:-- condition. Out of ~espect for the law and the things he felt t'\ \ was right he would~Ocarry a vleapon in the way of a firearm. . IV In his insecurity he did carry a tire iron and kee~ it handy . . Can you imagine feeling the importance of this enough to do it. -58- ----------------------- Page 234----------------------- j2/14 Page 18 I It' ~'Ta.;3r8.3pect .that Il19.de him. not ,carry the' Tires.rm. Fear i cade him hnvesomething. I know you don't 3e~ this. You' ; ,don't live 'the life 'that· is. in close, ass'ociation with so many of the people outth~re. The ~erson who couldn't come here because it vfould cost him' a house payment and take him six months to make up for the loss. That is'the one you won't hear from~ These 'are the ones you shduld be proud of. They are the' pride of the 'country. This feeling that I' have is that feeling of debasement because I am part of this thing ,that is going on and not doing anything about changing it .' . He 'wants thecbmmittee to sense his fe.sling. How do you do . this? Ther~' is more "to. it than just coming here to Juneau. Mr. Arnold said they had not just come'here. They had gone : ... to the 'law, to the prosecutor and to the· Judiciary. .They 'just passeq, the buck. Now he has come to the Legislature hoping'for some relief. He said they had found two very opposing·things. He said he ~ad found that each person by h~s own proclamation saying that they were a saint in white robes. Just the same 3 they passed the buck saying that each one of the other is the accused and they were the black hats. ,He 'asked, if there were a bunch 01' saints or blac'k- hats? Hesa.id· that he knew someone had to be wrong. He felt that we all shared a great deal of the guilt. Everyone is' like himself, absorbed enough in their own life to have paid disrespect to society. The desires for gains, possessions, positions, etc., overpower" all of our aims. 'This doesn't make you the frbad . hats". It doesn't make the ~ther guys all have a grey hat . . He said he wore one, too. This state belongs to the citizens- ,of this state who are in good standing. We have a right to . ,property and respect. We are governed under the concept that if we will support and cooperate with the authorities they will govern us in a manner worthy of our respect. One of the first things to give the people is protection. This is' one of the basic things that we can pass on to those that will . take our place. The greatest loss we got in the Eagle R~ver explosion was to our youth. It is not just the material --things we lost--it is the youth who will have to make.' decisions for the good of all as they take over from the ones in office now. We have better communications now. This has tended to create more problems. Kids from the populated areas can drive out to Eagle River and do their "thing" and then get out. The people are the ones tqat suffer in fear. These young people have·theirown opinions on things. They speak out vocally and they will soon make up a voting block. As it is they offend the ones who have d-1sciplined.them. The young people also recognize leadership. Mr. Arnold said he didn't know how "to go about bringing b~ck . self-respect. He said he kne:>f you couldn't, just ,push a but~on. As to rehabilitation, if. ,you are going to lett:"ese people out, then you had better see that a good job is done. ,He would like to see a conscientfuus effort started and continued to a reasonable solution to this problem. He would like to see discipline, some mandatory sentencing--the judge knows best what the needs are. At present, the judge has failed the conscienc~ of the good clt~zen.' The judge never listens -59- ----------------------- Page 235----------------------- . :~ .... :) Page 19 . . ~'" to individual people like this Gornmi t tce·do'2s. H8 5aid thQ.~ he believed that· everydepartm2n-C in t'hejustice.3ystem. • ! shared a part of theg~ilt in its failu~e. All need some measure of reform ..Beirne asked how many troopers there ,~ were in the Eagle RIver Area. Mr. Arnold s~idthis area· had 5% of the population of the state. They have always had one trooper to patrol the main highway. They had 6ne that would come to the answer of a call. Usually they would come. They had another· one £or a week or tendays--he seemed to fike the bridge for some reason ·orother." She felt· that . since·there wasn't more preventive protection that m~ght ~e : the reason for all of this. He ·saidhefelt that the trooper . there did a good job. He misbooks someone once in a Ttlhile. Th:l.s is an excusable error. Beirne asked if they had citizens traveling with the trooper. Arnold sa~d that two of thec~ti­ zens go out together to do their patrol. They go out for 'observ,ation purposes and also to b~observed by' ·others.... · We think this will be a deterrent. Malone noted that this area' 'represented 5% of the population of the state and had only one p9.rt-time trooper on patrol. He said they· had. the same pop- ulation in Kenai and have from l2-14municipal officers and, 4 or 5 state t~oopers.This definitely £eemslike a·lack of' prevention . . Meeting adjourned at 6:55 '~'. . 1 .j IS ' • ._-_ .. ..:....--...--.~..... --.".-----'-'----=...__._.._.._-..:...._-.~-~.:..:...... --.---...:-- --'.'.--.-.-:.-.-.-----:---.:.~--~--.-.. ---~.--.. -~----.-.. - . -.---~-- .._.-_., .._--...__._-_. . . .r.l.) . r Ii -60- ----------------------- Page 236----------------------- HOUSE JUDICIARY COMt"'1ITTEE MINUTES OE' THE .MEETING "Priday, FebJ.'"'lulr'J 15; 1971~ ."-'/ Chairman Tillion called the n:teeting to order at 3:15 p.m. in Room 104 or the Assembly Apartments. Present were f"Ia1one; Tillion., OrSini, Chance, Banrield, McVeigh and Berry. 'Malone announced that the prime sponsor'f'or HB411 - Establish- . ing a fif'th district of the Superior Court - could not be-here HB 41 tod~y: Malone presented written testimony prepared by Rep_ :Fifth Phillip Guy. It ~as felt that the~eople being·served by Judic. the judge should have a louder voice in the confirmation of ":District ·the selection of that judge. It is a known fact that the' native villages must accept the western concept of' law. This bill attempts to bring the law closer to t~e people.' .' :Peter Page, representing the North Slope Borough, testified on this bill. He was in favor of same. He felt that justice' should be brought closer to the. people. Some ·or the problems are qistance, including time and miles) etc. He said that he didn't have time this mornlrigto make a ~etailed presenta- .tiqn on figurAs. He 8ai.d he bad gone' to th~ -Gave r:::-lO r t s office' '. and received some population statistics. The population involved was somewhat over 18,000. (Orsini'a~rived 3:25)· Under the new districts that have come out there is 11,000 population. He said he remembered when there was talk about putting a judge in Sitka. S~tka was an island community "____i connected by a waterway. It!'did have scheduled airline. ser- vice, though. This is not true of the district of which we are discussing. There are many miles separating communities and there is no scheduled alr service. You have to t~avelto Bethel; Fairbanks and then on.to Nome. They obviously have a geographical kinship. They do have some of the same problems 'as Sitka. . This is an area' worthy'of' some consideration. The primary t' • function of the superior court is to fulfill justice. Under .,the present system, juvenile justice has to be handled once - a month or handled by a district court judge as a master or the court.· Judge Guinn in Bethel is excellent. The concept is that the court should handle this. It is felt that justice . ~., ~ delayed is justice denied. In the bush areas where communica- .... , , tion~ are difficult there are many cases that should Gome berore the judge which just don't. • It· is almost impossible to take a child of young years who is guilty of something to trans- port him or her to the larger population areas. As a result, tbese people don't have acc~ss to Juvenil~ court unless they get into tro~ble while the judge is in to~n. . . I ,..l Chance suggested basing judicial dtstrictB on the election districts of 1959 ..They checked the map. Mr. Page said this map had divisions as of July 1, 1973. He said there "--·"·'·were also figures for 1970. -61- ----------------------- Page 237----------------------- P~ge 2 , °10" C1o' t Chance asked if numbera13-17 wcra included. He s~id that 13 '':''J.. B;l ( wa~ not--this is Kodiak. He said thi~ was a rough sketch. He said he prepared the chart with the number of judges and ru~ial their locations. He put an .,Xn where Bethel was located. (HB District He felt it would be a welcome relief to the third district to not have to take these cases. Banfield made some comments about when Nora Guinn was appointed. She is doing a remarkable job. She speaks the language' of, the .:. ·people. and understands them. Banfieldf'elt that if ~Te put a . f t, ,superior court judge in there they might lose their rapport. , i She wanted to know what would happen then. The people trust '. ~ .Judge ,Guinn. ' , t, ,1 ,Page said that he could envision judges in Alaska that ~Tould t be speaking the native language. He assumed that Judge, quinn's I, talents would continue to beused,possiblyas an interpreter.' f' The conc·ept in juvenile· justice must deal. with the concept by ','I 'the judge of general Jurisdication trained 'arid seasoned in 1 juvenile practi6es as the oheto handle these bases. ", "'1 Banfield wanted to kno't'f if this judge would be apart-time " ';1· Judge. PM.g~ R~io that hA, wOll.J,.d assi·st in other aree.s of the ~' . state. -He said that .the concerns expressed :tv-hich were vie~Ted ,l . in placing a judge in Sitka are similar tot.his case. l·' .I I Mr. Snowden has asked me to submit that the; superior court j'. is opposed to this concept as :'.outlined in HB 411. Malone submitted a letter :rrom Rep. :;rhillip Guy for all members. I . . , The concept is that justice must be brought 'closer to·the people. Doing this at this time will create a no~flex~ble boundary \'lhen we feel that the linep as 'now drawn are not responsive I to the public needs. He mentioned in the brochure that they don't want to remain as a service area. This arrangement was' only set up' two months ago. I ;, " ·Fora long period of time, Judge Sanders was serving the Bethel ! _ ..__ ~._. ____ :_.... :... area because of his light load .....He would fly to Anchorage.,-'· .-.... --:-: ..~. overnight there, and then go to Bethel the next day. This j was very inconvenient. There was a special meeting arranged {" with the Chief Justice and others. regarding bush justice. This was held in Bethel. This was where service districts i,' ~ :., .'" were mentioned. What was done was that the public defender i' . and the DA would put people in 'and to s~rve the needs ·and go ! . once' a month to take care of their needs just wasn't enough. I' He said that the service district was working:and said they' , i' were going to try, that for Barrow n9w• ,Wrying to set up 'i service areas on a basic ,trial plan to se~ if we can better ' suit'the 'needS of the bU3h and the rl~ral corrununitie~ by doing' this. We need a greater judicial presenc~ in these areas .. Judge Lewis has been assigned to' the Bethel service area. He said that people were just not being transported to Anchor~ age for trial. There were 594 cases noted and these are mostly . Iiff... ') district court cases. We don't have a superior court backlog 11 there now. There are great administrative problems. The con- -62- ----------------------- Page 238----------------------- 2/15 1 ·. rage 3 cern is for studying the whole conce·pt· and th~y will testify I aj to·what they a~e dOing in this area:H8 felt that it· wa3 precipltou~ to.do this now. . Mr. ~age felt that the people should be served along the ~ifth tr·ansportation1ines. The paper noted that the Juciicia:L Judicial Council was working on this. Recording districts were District - , brought up at their recent meeting. They also considered the whole problem surrounding thenat~veclaims settlement ·act.· Naturally, this will be a t~emendous ·problem for" the , ; court system. He said there would probably be about 50,000 land filings .. That would be from each of the 13 corporations. He said they were trying to take preventive steps. There ·1s ~ large recording center iriAnchorage and they don't have to do. this by district ~ines. Reference was made to the judge ·in Sitka. They want the one in Bethel set up the same way. He is· travelling most of the time around the state. The caseload doesn't justify staying in one place. It .is cheaper than hiring another judge .. .: .Mr. Snowden noted that juvenile justice is. a problem. He felt that being in the area once a month was enough to cover the : needs. He did agree· that redistrictinf.2; was 'needed in the state. He thought that even having. no dist,rictsmight be .." better. He felt that a fifth district would· compound the problem. He asked the committee to wait for the study and see the results. Malone asked when the study would be com- pleted. Mr. Snowden said Mr~ Hicks would be better able to anS\lJ'er that. Mr. Hicks said :!f;hat it would be a month to six weeks. He said he realized that it was important to get it 'out as soon as possible. He said the Judicial Council endorsed the whole concept of judicial districting. ·Mr. H1CKS said some had asked what the functions are. He said : they are far less than.what most people think they are. He said that at the time of statehood every agency operated by using the judicial districts.There~only one that uses them now and they aren't using them very much any more. One of the things the council does is define the administrative unit for the pr.esiding judges and the other is for the confirm- ation area for the election of judges. Mr: Hicks said that he attended a meetin"g in December and they assigned a single judge to come out once a month with the plan to hire a full time clerk· and. improved library space:saw where they would be able,to . provide better service. . Mr. Hicks gave an example of a person in the Wade Hampton area being arrested--this is the aecond judicial district. He would be br6~ght into Bethel--this is the four~h judici~l district. ~hen he would be taken to Anchorage. In ~nchorage the person '. might be released on.bail .. If th~ servic~ areasa~e redivided it will help a lot . . j -63- ----------------------- Page 239----------------------- i2/15 Page 5 O~2 of the thingsim~ortant io M~. Coo~cey is in relation t6 th~energy crisis. When dealing.with the energy problem 'in ··IB 41 \,,-,. Seattle, they promptly set up an of.fice in Alaska.' They need to do this for the pe6ple of Alaska for justice. He said i~ifth they supported a fifth judicial district. :Judlcial ~District Attorney General, Norman Gorsuch.,. testified in favor of this bill. He said that this' is consistent with the pol~cythe i' governor had to realign the four districts. He felt that the pOints'made by Mr. Guy in his brochure and Mr. Page could be seconded. He said they think that th~ creation of this dis- trict will bring the judicial system closer to the residents .o'r the areas and allo~'l them the 'authorityto locally confirm the judges and have some involvement in the judicial system ina direct way_ In addition, the development of a fif~h judicial district will permit the availability of another '. judge to. help carry some of the backlog that oCCurs in the larger cities. For.these general reasons the· administration does support HI? 411. Malone mentioned a comment by rJIr.~ Hicks. . Th'is was with regard to the imp~ovement0f the administre.tiorl of ju'stice in the Bethel area.· The biTI didn't necessarily address itself to that because the judge is only going to be w'orking there. depending on the case load. He said he agreed with that. He said that it brings one more judge into the system. He said he wasn't sure that;t~yst"em needed one more judge. !' . Malone had some questions about the study. He wanted to know that we would get the results of the study before this session is·completed. Orsini asked ~f thi$~just referred to the boundaries and how responsive~t~o the~t!~:>onstituents that are served. He .also wanted to know if" Mr. Hicks was looking at this from the standpoint of the election of judges rather than appointment .. Mr. Hicks answered by saying how could the people be served any other way than by districts? There was also some discussion about the present boundaries--are they serving the needs in the most efficient way. Chance wanted to know if they were I .. talking about eliminating all judicial districts and leaving ; , it up to the court system so they' could make any changes they ; ~ .- needed without .going through the legislature. Mr. Hicks said this is what Public Saf~ty does now. It is working fo~ them. Chance noted that the constitution says that it shall be done by law. She said it was questionable whether or not it could be delegated to the court system. ~r. Hicks. thought it had to he ha.~dled by the legislature.. . ) J . Ch~nce' said that since the courts were looking for flexibilitj . she coUldn't see that they would object to a fifth dIstrict . being created now and knowing that in future legislation this '~ould all be changed--what would be'wrong with that. Mr. Hicks said he was not objecting. What he was saying was .that the things noted in the letter are not being served by this particular Change. Chance asked if there would be -65- ----------------------- Page 240----------------------- Page 6 additional needs. H~ sa16 thut· th~re would. Chance asked about the confirmation. Was ther~ any n~edto ~hange the administration. Hicks said you could use election code or judicial district ..Banfield asked Mr. Snowden how long the iJudicial service area concept had been in operat~on. He said' it had :District been in effect for two months. He said·the facilities ~on't be complete until March. He said they had been sending out judges since December. He said the court system was not say- ing that a fifth district ~'las bad.' We'are only saying 'that it is precipitous at this time; That would be'~ntil a judge would be needed full time in Bethel .• , Banfield asked that. by the next legislative session that Mr ..Sno~..;den would have . completed his testing of this .concept. He said that \~lastrue. f'~ .,:J~, >;'/;~;::;:t%:¥~.e,J'o:ne,said he didn',t' think that the constitutional restrictions .. ," ,-are' a' great impediment . Hicks said he would like to see them I, ~ create one judicial district for the 'entire state and then the' court could decide ab.Out the service areas. That is an alter-' ,'natlve, rather than changing the election code •. . Discussion was held on a house j6int resolution (no. 85); Q.- 'Tillion said that this is a resolution that covers the method .... d~stric. of redistricting. One of the issues ~hat the court has called' ,t6 our attention is the text o~ Article XI of the State Con- stitution and legislative apportionment. Many such proposals have been declared unconstitutional as a result of our decisions or because of national decisions. Tpe areas range from popu~' lation base to ,what:' bound'aries, should be drawn. Also . there has been some problem with defining terms. There has been recent litigation; single versus multi or noneat all; the question of the governor\s pow~r; senator~s term of office; 1"" composition of the Governor's Reapportionment Advisory Board :to name a few. This still leaves open the.question of the judicial districts. For quite a number of years the state has been using the state election districts for other uses rather 0'" than just elections. . For example, state employees' salaries have been based on this. Also, liquor licenses are granted .. ---- under this arrangement. These ·boundaries,are no·longer in' force ~ .. -- One of the committee members asked whose idea this was. Tillion said that it was Mike Miller's. M. Miller-asked the committee if they would have this resolution introduced 'as a Judiciary r. . 'Committee resolution. It was submitted as from the committee ,..:~,.c.,l)y~~request . , " i_l"ja~l . and . Discussion turned to law and order matters. Mr. Robert Wagstaff, fO:r·d.er legal counsel for the ACLU.· He stated that these were his own opinions~ He said that he had 11 y~ars of law background •. He worked on ~ prison project while in la~s~hool at Leavenworth~ He iforkedas a prosecutor in Fairbanks 'in /1967 . Slnce t'hat time I have been iri private practice as a criminal defehse lawyer. He said that he felt that the essential frustration stated'by - so- many of the witnesses, like those from Eagle River,--he shared , -,. ... thf'.ir frus.tration. He said that the solutions proposed do nothing .....\~ n) .' '.rhe~l'._really aren't solutions and do not even address themselves 11 to th·(' real problems. He said the ones expressed are emotional ·or.. fear reactions and to think that the solut.ion is to round -66- ----------------------- Page 241----------------------- ;2/15 .. Page 1 up the people who need to be locked up. Then somehow you . f~el that t~1t~ probl'::;T!1 i/rill C2as,~ to exii:it. Hezaid t~'"lis' is not new philosophy, it ha3 been practi'ced throughout oy.r history. It will not change things now. He didn't think \,-" that' we were in an unusual situation with res.pect to crime '~aN as opposed to what has happened in our hist6ry and to the' 3.nd· ,world. It just happens to be more prevalent at one time ' Jrder than another. We are conscious about it, everyone knows · about it. He said that he questioned the' statistics that sholl[ 'that ~'Te are now in a rq,aj or crime revolution and that the, criminals are taking over 'socially. rJIr . Wagstaff said he just didn't ,think this was true. ,He said this was not his opinion only, but others shared his view. He recommended a b60k that was informative bn this matter. He said that Ramsey Clark also wrote a book'a.bout how misleading statistics ·can,be. He said this was particularly true bef6re legiS- lative committees for the purpose of obtaining monies. On reporting crime--ifone wanted to increase the crime statistics and interview people andestablish'b~tter methods of reporting this would show crime to be on the 'increase. This is one of the fallacies,.of the·FBI. He said that FBI records 1,-rere unr.eliable b2cB.lJ.se ·ttl.eye:ive no indication as to what ,is happening in the world. He also . said the Chief' Hipbschman's statistics are meaningless. They don't answer the questions of'the committee. 'You have to ask what the, statistics represent. He gave an example of' the statistics on rape: Is this bare f'act that rape has ,increased 50%? What are they:;,saying--is' this only reporting or is this convictions or wha~. Th~ only meaningful figures would be the convictions. Otherwise, this is just giving you a report. Even if in the midst of' a criminal .takeover.of our society--what is the proper solution or ho~'will you corre~t what 1S going on? The law and order bills are not address-' ing their contents to thes~ problems. He felt this package would tend to increase crime. He made mention of Chief Hibpschman's statistics in that 80% of the crimes are .being committed by persons who have already been exposed to the criminal justice system and placed in jail. It is not a . question of finding the persons who are criminals and arrest- ing them and convicting them. This is being done. The problem is the repeater .. This indicates a failure of' the system to change anything'., This i'8· ·the crux of the problem. If you want to make an attack on criminal activi ty in the country and iri the· state you have historically only addressed yourself to new la~s, increasing I police~ etc. This doesn't lower the crime rate. Then you " ' have placed emphasis on corrections: Whi~ h~ppens to the per- I son after he has been convicted? ,~\rhen you) conside:!'; that. 80% of all felonies are committed by. persons Who' have already been exposed to rehabilitation. There has been no effort to alter ,the individual's behavior. There has never been any emphasis ~laced on this aspect of rehabilitation in this country. 95% 6f the funds go to custody--if you doubt that spend some time in the institution. It is really only custodial f~cility. ~67- ----------------------- Page 242----------------------- {2715 FC:t.g~ G I . The basic concept of· penalties was a h~miliation of the indi- vi-due.l until Ghat· time th~ p.::rsons were pllnis~led physicall;:;". J t' The per.30n ~'lould be thro~'rn into solitary to think about hO~'1 ~ wrong he had been. After this treatment, they were supposed to L6"-",and see.the errors of their ways. This would purge th~. devil out of Order them. He didn't think that anypne thought that way any more. He said that it appeared .thatcorrections did the opposite of what was expected, which is to reduce criminality in our society. These people go from society--b~ing segregated--placed ~n confinement away from the society'in .which they are supposed to function; and are placed in an environment that is repres- sive, they have no rights, no respect--go there and see ,for . yourself. Place yourself in the positio~ of someone in.jail. See if you would be influenced in a positive way. He said testimony showed that the witnesses wanted the criminals to stay in Jail longer--thismakesit a st.ronger likelihood that :·they will be in there. Take a:look at Attica. This is a' typical American prison. ·You all know what went on there. This is a bad type of environment.' What ~ould cause a guard - to shoot a prisoner when they. haVe a chance ( . It ml.l.st be the environment. The idea that someone is going to respect some- one·by being totally punished and dehumanized and,tortured physically and mentally--it's' just not going toha:ppen.As far as punishment being a deterrent to crime--the idea that . . ... because if I do something I may go to jail is supposed to ( . influence me .. The reasoning is that it therefore should '~: 'also influence others but this is simply not true. Take for ·-instance Fish and Game violations. Strict laws t'Tould probably .be a deterrent as it ,would be those whodrive while uTi.der the . influence of alcohol or drugs. The law would probably" have some effect. These particular things are while collar crimes 'and are totally different from the murderer ..You wouldn't say that someone driving while drunk was not. making a choice ~o be a criminal. . This is especially true when people t'hink that· all things--·-- should be equal. You see someone living in $100,000 hotise and decide that is what you want too so you embark on a life of crime. The~e people come.from poverty, they have a history of sh0rt lifespans, diseases, come from broken families all of which indicate a flaw in the social system. These,very conditions caus~ some to have nO.respect f6r the laws. Then you want to put these people, after committing a crime, in a totally repressive situation. This is not the remedy. Mr. Ha.gstaff SalQ the only thing that he believed-,that could be done was to focu3 attention on corrections. ~lhat happens to them after they are found guilty--he said he didn't have the answer. It is plain that what we are doing now isn't the right thing. He said that it would take a lot of money If you were really serious about reducing crime. On half~ tD way houses--there have been some failures but he things more could be done in this area. -68- ----------------------- Page 243----------------------- i Page 9 I O~3 ini sa"id h~ a.~;reed ~\li th r;Ir. ~1{.9.gstaf f "on one point2r:d t~~at i /' wa3 th~t statistics a~enot always accurate~ This G~pe~dJ 1 \. on who wants to prove what. Malone said there was no question that there needed to be improvement "in rehabilitation. Hagstaff I said he felt we should give attention to preventingcrines in the first place. There doesn(t seem to be any programs of Law" and crime prevention mentioned"by ~nyone. The first thing you would Order" have to do is isolate causes~f crime. It is evident that these are not conscious choices. These are complex social problems" usually associated with poverty. Malone said he didn't think it wastr~e that crime is always associated with poverty. fJIr. Wagstaff said that -there was no absolute cause for crime but that each case has its set or"causes and circumstances. He said that all he was saying is thai w~ ~re talking about '0;,.,' ·~rime collectively--muggings, rapes, crimes a~ainstthe pe~­ "." son, thefts of property, etc. The people involved are not "" wealthy. (Beirne ~rrived4:40) "rJIcVeigh said he felt that t"hat tt1is bill should be drafted ti'ghter. Tillion'said J he was open to suggested language. . i '. I HB 452 - Use of firearms during commission of a felony.' McVeigh , said that it was impossible to have mandatory minimum sentences. ! i This would remove the discretiop of the judge to consider the f 'merits of each particular case. There is alsd the question of ho~v the accomplice would be affected '''lith this law.. He, could possibly be dealt with as a orincinaJ. Tf the accomplice h~d a gun the other person would-Se.subject to the same penalty. 1 This bill needs more ,work. ":,"", "', '" I HB 460 - Assault and battery on a peace officer.' There ',·ias I' ,unanimous consent that this bill was too all encompassing. Making this act a felon~ was too~strong a sentence. There 1'-1) ,,\~' 'are occasions when a drunk or~' an old lady in an emotional i'-c~.. :: : 'situation might hit an office~ ,and you wouldn't want them t to be charged with a felony. • I '4 • I SSHB 511 ~ Release on parole. This relates to the 1/3 sentence i being served. The judge now has the power to say this when 1", sentencing a person. This is based on the theory that incar- j' cerating will be helpful. McVeigh didn't think this was a I , H' valid theory. Tillion the reason for this was to keep these I '.'. __ '...:.. .....:..,people off the streets .-_... "..' --" -- .-.. :.-:' .. '. '. ,- .. , -.'- -" '" '..~ .... - -----._ ...- . f .. _.. ,,-- Tillion noted that you would lower the statistics if you kept I the people in jail longer because. 78% of the additional crimes I were committed by repeaters. Orsini said that this wouldn't I I' alter the crime pattern of the individual's ,life style. McVeigh ! - said that was true., Mr., Wagstaff felt the individual'would increase his criminal acti~ityif he were held in jail longer. · . Beirne said that, she was mainly concerned with taking away the ,j discretion of the judges. She also·felt that we should have a better trained police force. Also better rehabilitative programs. When you have people robbing the neighborhood night after night there is no doubt but that you have to do something to protect the citizens. She said she 'was particularly' concerned about crimes against the person--rape. Banfield said that she 1" jl\,' was convinced that crime was on the up~wing. f People never had ~ to Ibck their doors before in Alaska. Meeting adjourned 5:25 p.m -70- ----------------------- Page 245----------------------- j2/18 HOUSE ~UDICIARY COMMITTEE I MINUTES OF THE MEETING Mdn d ~lY, Ife bru 1.ry ,18, '19 71~ i Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:10 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Chance, McVeigh, Malone and Randy Ber~y. The first item. for discussion was HB 495 - Small' business 495 Business loan eligibility. Tillion stated that in present laTN" a Loan.El~g~· person has to have ~een in business in,the state for at , C. least three years. He said this bill tighten~ it up even more by requiring that they show financial stability and good character. They alsO" ha've to' hav~ sufflcient co"llateral and kno~v about Alaska's economic conditions. Randy' s'aid 'that the present law would not allow a loan to someone just starting up a new busihess. Randolph agreed with Randy 's'tatingthat loans have been denied to a businessman on just " this part of the law. Malone said he felt this was a good 'bill. He did ask Mr. Rand6lph about the first phrase on "establish or demonstrate good chq.ractertf--who TflaS going' t,o use this? Randolph said that Legisl~tive Affairs tried to describe what they thought the loan officer" should look for. Tillion. said that the Department of ,Commerce also w'anted ,this part' l'eft in., Randolph. said that the' main thing "{,\las ~o remove the three-year clause. Malone moved to pass this bill out of committee with a "Do Pass" recommendation and aske;d unanimous consent. There was no objection and all present ,signed nDo Passu. Interest HB 497"- Interest rates charged in the state. Tillion said B 491 ;{ates in this takes the lid off of the over $100,000 ~ategory.This State leaVes everything else attached to the fluct~~ting system that we have now. Randolph noted that 'this a:1so takes care of, the expiration date, which is April 15, 1975. Chance, aske4to have this measure postponed until ou~ next meeting., There was no objection, so ordered. '\ \ HB 635-'-"::' Relating to the postponement' of ciy-It proceedings ?ostpone. when a person is a member of the legislature. 'Malone asked ;':,.':;:gal , to have an, explanation of the difference between this bill '~ ~;eed;t.~gs and.the one that the governor vetoed last year. Randy read from the governor's veto message. He said it ~as actually the same as HB 412 from last year except that 'the governor felt it was extremely prejudiced to the person who might be under extreme hardship because of the postponement. HB 412 was absolute and said there had to be a continuance.' This makes it possible to have flexibility where there would ~r could be shown unreasonable hardship, th~nthe ca~e could not be continued. Randy said the governor wanted us to make a less prejudicial bill this year. That is why instead or making this absolute he added that unless it would cause unreasonable hardship to another party that it could be continued. This was p~t in on page 1, line 17; page 2~ lines 1 and 10. ' They would grant continuance unless one 'or the other of the parties objected and gave some 'grounds -71- ----------------------- Page 246----------------------- 2/18 Page ,2, for unreasonable hardship to him. This would depend upon the circum3 tanCeS.. ~Il:Veip;h tla.id he thot;,ght you :Jho'..tld put flome guidelines ~nabout who would make the determination a~ to HR, 035 whether there was hardship involved or not. Randy said that !Po~fJone" was why he intended but he could say that this would be on :.~ :Legal the finding by the judge. This would be a :fact-finding by ,Proceedings the judge. Chance said it was already possible to do this. I " McVeigh said that was true but this will give you de:finitive periods of time to prepare and lets you know when you can expect trial .. This will t'end'to give 'notice thati:f you are in the legislature you will ask for a ~ontinuanc~; Chande C'" felt that this was a matter of practice already. McVeigh gave an" example of some of his cases that were not. ,handled ,this way. He said he had to hear motions on some of ,his, , ! , cases while he was serving with. the fegislature. They did- ,not grant continuance in Ed Barber,' s case last year. McVeigh t I J ,said there are times, when there is a .need for statutory pro- . I ~ection . 'He agreed that there' ,were abuses where a pa.rtY,or ;., a witness is only using this as a front but, under :this.modi- -\ 'fied statute the judge could see through an act like this.' ' Chance said she wanted to see the,language added that would i i - "make it clear that the ~uling is made by the judge. Malorte ! aereed -.;t!i th this -' too * Tillion said that a. ccrr..."T.ittee sub- stitute will be prepared and brought back before the committee. McVeigh' will carry liB 635, on the, ,Floor'., ' ", ' ,~ , '- Mr. Randolph will carry ,HB-495 - Small business loan eligi-:- - " bility. ' . _._ . - ,5 C ~ , ' , , '''''p,'' i i .~" . There was a discussion of interest rates. Malone said he ' ___ l :. would like to see them tied to the federal rates something iInterest like Mr. Hillstrand had in mind. Chance said she would Rates in like to see a 3% difference between what a bank paid for 'State savings and what they could charge for interest on loans. ' Tillion said he likEtlthat concept,. too. 'Chance said that as long as you say this is the interest that ~can be charged within the state, there is no problem with ttie federal govern- "':" , , .ment.· Randy said that now there is a90r 10% limit. Tillion --- "-". ---._-. -.. didn't think-there would be much possibilityo:f getting a·----------·,' --,~".-~,­ house bill through the senate. I:f it was a senate bill he didn't think it would' get by some of the senators.' Tillion felt that if the committee wanted to work on this some more i - they could remodel anyone of the bills on this subject that was' in committee. Chance felt there was a possibility that you might get the banks tocompromise.- Maybe'if they didn't think they would get the extension date they might agree to this kind of an interest bill. Meeting adjourned at 3:45 p.m. [ ..' -72- ----------------------- Page 247----------------------- I j2/20 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF TH~ MEETING Herln-=sday, ?ebruary 20 )197i_~ Chai'rman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3: 15 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, McVeigh, Malon~, Chance,B~nfield, Beirne, and Berry~ " ,The first item ,for consideration was House ,Bill No_ 9l~ , B 91 :Interest on. Interest on insurance settlements. The Division of .Insurance J' Insurance has taken theCSfor HB 91 and their position. " & .Settlemen'ts is that we appreciate what is being attempted here. They 'felt that the imposing of the interest penalty #B 17· after the time prescribed in the bill will not accomplish what it is supposed to do~ This will show up in the :increased premium to "the insured party. It is self- defeating. The better approach is through HB 178 according to Mr. O'Sp,ea, from the Division of Insurance. HB 178 is the unfair trade practi'ces bill. This is under " 'section 8 which lists a comprehensive procedure for ,ta~ing I "care of insurance plan payments. Th~ difficulty in, '. t imposin~ the penalty specified in this-HR 9l :t8 that I ',., insurance claims generally vary so greatly that the Simpler ones, can be done speedily but the "more complicated ,ones can go on for years without satisfactory settlement. :Fo~ this reason, we have not supported this proposed c- legislation. ' 'J " '''-1' ' I , , , Don Koch said he didn'£ know the bill title, but that it : is' in ,the Commerce Committee. This is: relating to the regulating of insurance and has an effective date. It comes to this' committee next. Dr. Beirne asked if we shouldn't be taking both of these bill~up together. "Mr. Koch, said that' this was more comprebensi ve on what ,HB 91 speaks' to. If an insurer uses one of the unfair' acts listed here he is, liable. Banfield asked if we could take the unfair acts that,applied\to this problem. Mr. O'Shea s~id he wanted HB 178 to be cbnsidered in its entirety 'and not take this section 8 out. We ar~ referring to the fact that until"HB 178 were adopted it. would ,take care of CSHB 91 in a better fashion. Mr~ Fred Eastaugh said he had checked with his insurance people and he was informed today--I think most of the, committee knows Mr. Slaven--he was concerned, about the CS. He checked with New York. To their knowledge there is no' counterpa::::'t to this, legislation t~at is proposed in any of the 50 states. He said he thought there was "good'reason for that. Basically the relationship between every insurer and its insured if naturally one of con- ·tract~ "The basis is that the insured has to pay on the r . bas"is of Iiability. This can only be- 'established when the loss has been ascertained. This bill is ve~y wide in scope. This covers not only automobiles, but all forms -73- ----------------------- Page 248----------------------- of insurance such as fire, mari~e, etc. This is saying .. ·that ther'3 will be anin~ra8.3ed ·cost:. On~2 li~bi.litJ is established:lnd the a:nount()f' damage3 ur: Beirne ~ Banfield, Malone, Orsini, Chance, and Berry .. Mrs" Banfield announced that the Department: of Corrections. \AlaS anxious to have the committee come out and tour their facility. This"is the Southeastern Regional Institute.' The Judiciary Committee meeting ~Till' be held at that department February 22, 1974, at 3: 00 p.m. '.' This .was a public hearing'on SB-32am -'Minor in need of 'M.inorin 'treatment. Dr. Rodman Wilson> Chairman of the. Legislat'ive Committee. of the Alaska State' Medical Association was the needo£' SB '32,: treatment first to testify. He testified in favor of this legislation. He said Dr. Charles Wallner,-Dr. "Shirley Fraser, and Dr.' Earl . Albrecht also :were from the Alaska State Medical Association . . -.- .' .'" . '" . . UQ C:!~;" 'f-h~t- ·Pnn- ~Q\ro-n~l ,,(TO~1'1q' "i--h~' ~~~i\n; '=l'~;"rt~~' h'~"~ '. i--n; o~· f-r-\ - .......... *oJ~_ ..... ""' ...... .-.."" ..... '\oJ .... a..J ....... v ....... ..a.."-'-~ J"-'-'--"""" 'IJ.Io,.",- \..4,oa.Jt.J......,....,-.......,..v ..... ......, ......l.J."-"-1oJ V.&.-'-'-""""'- V'V .get a law in the area of treatment o:f minors passed. He said they felt that the present version of SB 32am which has passed the Senate and is now in the House is a good refinement' of previous bills. We feel.that this subject is a valid concern of' our profession.' They are' concerned basically about filling the needs ofminors~ They a~e mu~h less interested in the ~social policies, law!l custom; etc. If a minor is sick or injured they are interested in getting him some help. He . said that wanted this avenue open to their office so those in need of treatment might come in and talk about their prob- lems. This doesn't mean that the doctors'will treat the child without the permission of the family. He' said they would much rather involve the family. He said they were more apt to get / ..... paid if the family were involved. ~-~ -------The- present- bill·wou-ld-make--the-minors-- cons~I1t-- valid-under-------- ---'-- the circumstances as listed in the bill. This is not a carte blanc treatment--he read parts from the bill. This is for when parents. refuse to partiCipate in some situations. Tillion said he couldn't see any situation where ·this would take place unless it were abortion.· Chance noted that this was already . ~ermitted under existing law. Tillion said that unless it so ·~... ~~tated· here, this would antecede the previous. law. Dr. Wilson ·s~id it didn't and read from the bill. McVeigh noted that minors qan get treatment fqr vener~al disease and drug abuse now. Wilson said they only got treatmen~ for VD and d~agnosis for pregnancy. McVeigh asked why ;"e putji:1 diagnqsis of VD and drug abuse in this bill then. This is on p~ge l~ line 23. ThiS .. eould be stricken. Chance said they wanted to be sure that it was in the statutes. Wilson suggested that you have it all in -::'one place in the statutes. Beirne noted that we were working w1ththe HCS for SB 32. T11lion asked if this made clear that a refusal stands. Wilson "':80- ----------------------- Page 254----------------------- f ') J'.- 1 I c../ c::~ Pa.ge 2 said it wouldn't: It wouldn't stand if the child wanted I I diagnosis. Tillion asked about·other types of things. ;DB 328.E , W~150n3aid he didn't think any doctor would be foolish \. enough to do so if it wa.s clearly understood· that the :'Yi.',- couldn't get a .bill through. HB675 - Imposition of, the death penalty. Banfield said Death 'she couldn't see ariyone ~eing oppose1 to thel death penalty 67~ Penalty for kidnapping and rape wherethere~assault ~nd battery' ·involved. She also felt that when a witness: to a crime 'was murdered they should get the death penalty. McVeigh ,( '.. noted that one of the re,asons given by the DA' s office for ,-____~.. ,-,_.-,.. -not-.using ,the,. statute- on ,increasing the penalty was" ,that, you--_,., ..,.._,~ committed the crime under one statute and were being prosecu- ted under another. This was like being proseyuted twice which is similar to a two-subject bill. . >. a •• .Malone noted that the hill did not· require death for first ....... I -i. degree murder. McVeigh gave an explan'ation of what this involved. Tiliion said this, was designed to get the ,paid ~illers or professional m~rderer category. Malone said . ,.-.,~, ":"' ..' this bill doesn't cover cold-blooded murder. Tillion.said it was hard to sort 'out the wife who rubs out her husband from the one that coromi ts a passion murder . flIalone aaked abotit prem~ditated murder. Chance said that it is planned but you don't hire it done. Tillion noted that the drafter of this bill left out the normal everyday Alaskan type mur- der, but felt that as the state became more sophisticated .. [) ·that we should have some way to cover the for-hire murderer.' McVeigh said that the murderers were not the social headache that the burglars, drunk drivers or check artists were. He -90- ----------------------- Page 263----------------------- Page 3 .t:>eif-; t",_..,-:)._· f: Y""I' rAror"llcin r ~ hA ,:')'0 1~ .1.. ...... 1"l'l<:lk~' ~n~!' ~Dl"'\re('-i "lro'" w ct.,~,.,c·~ .L -.1.._ ...., .' ·v ...4.. 1/' ~ .I. .... 11 L............ c:.. ___ 1..;....., ... L':J,. '-_ "-w'" J. '~l...;. L~J • .._·_.~w .1._ lj.. ....... .L.i."'... .J .... / by having the. death. penalty. 'rh;;;re would scill be DlllI'ders. \. . Malone said that we should ask for a fiscal note on th~s bill De~"7A to see how much money we would save by the death penalty over HB 67: Penalty keeping the individual in prison for life.. Tillion said that in this state they are usually eligible for parole after ser- ving seven years so there wouldn't be much of a saving. Banfield a~ked' about the item 't~There if you ~Terein jail and killed someone. McVeigh said that was :n~cessary to protect the pri30n guards. They have greater exposure to risk. Banfield felt we should try to protect the witness. Chance 'said this wouldn't help because they can't d~e twice. Tillion said the guy "vould call in his friend "Charlie" and have him do it. Orsirii ~aid that then you would have a contract ~urder. Banfield moved to take out (2) on page 1. McVeigh suggested . amending the bill to say "intentionally" killed. Mrs •. Banfield withdrew her motion and the amendment was adopted. Nalone asked about the phrase on the "principles of reforma- -. " tionff in Art I~ Sec. . 12. Ha'rl2.nted to know if it could be argued that if you wanted to kill somebody you can't reform ~him ~ft~r· that. Tillion and McVeigh s~id this point was. arguable. Malone rtoted that this was for the protection of the public. McVeigh said he ~Tas right on this.' Malone said he disagreed about ·the peace· officers and thought they should be covered. McVeigh noted t?at we had added, "intentionallyrt. Banfield asked Randy how "ra~en was defined in 11.15.120. Banfield said she wanted to have one sec;tionthat means the kind of rape we are talking about in this bill. Tillion s~id it must be rape· which includes bodily injury. Banfield said it was a shame but you just can't prove ";mental injury . . Meeting adjourned at 4 :25 p.m. ',tI" - •.• ~-.• ~. - .•••• ~ ~ "., .¥ ..... -.'-:-: _ ...-.-..... - -"'.'-_ •• --.-.:~ --- ••__ •..••• --,-_ •••• - ••' . t ~ ~'- .. ' , -91- ----------------------- Page 264----------------------- HOUSS JUDICIARY COMMITTEE Iv1INUTES OF" TH2 ~JIEETInG ,( Tue'sday ~ February 26" 1974 \~ . Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:12p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were' ~11lion, Orsini, ,Ban~~eld, Chance, McVeigh and Berry . .HB-178 Regulation oftInsura~ce was. the first item for dis- :Regul'ation cussion. Mr. O'Shea made some introductory comments and HB17 of Insur" . said he worild l~ke to have Don Kochrepres~nt the Divi~ion of" Insurance, in the Department of Commerce ...Nr. O'Shea · ,:is the director. Mr. O'Shea said that this bill was'an unfair trade practices 'bill and was patterned after,a'model bill put out by'the .National Association of Insurance Commissioners. We have an unfair trade practice section in ,our statutes at the ~resent time. Basically, it is a lot of rhetoric and not enough·muscle. This ,bill add~esses itself to becoming.'~ore' serious in trvin~ to deal with suchtinfair trade nractices. This type of legislation has been adopted in 18 states of the Union already, but there are a number ·oi."states ~vho :have already adopted equivalent legis1:ation so' that they . probably won't adopt this. Mr. Koch is the rate analyst :Cor the Division of' Insurance and he helped draft this.bill • . ' a. ' - I I , ·The chairman invited Mr. Koch to consider a, section by section, analysis of' this bill. Mrs. Banfield asked,to ask questions a:Cter each section so they wouldn't have to ',go back later. ·A copy of the analysis will be placed in th~ file and every member will have a copy in their own notebook for future .reference . \:,' ; Under section 3 there was some discussion of;the word nknow-:- :'.., inglytt. Mr. Koch said a case .of this would be a typo- -- .. -..---..,...--~_,_____.. graphical_ error .. ---You wouldn..~t. want---toprosecute for. that .-.---.--- ----,-- . Chance noted that this section meant that you would "know- ingly" realize that the statement you were making was false. It' · Mr. Koch said it definitely be difficult to prove. Tillion did.not think this was too important a point. The. word was left in. . ..' , ~,ection 4.' ' Chance asked why they were taking out the insurers a~d ·organizati6ns. Mr. Koch said this was so theY.could " , .-l.nclude individuals .engaged in the business in all 'aspects'. It made'"a broader category. . ....... Section 5. Chance aSk'ed about "marine and i,vet marine" insurance. Mr. Koch said that dry marine was mobile ,property and wet marine that \'fhich ''fas moving' over water. An example of mobile property would be trucks and their cargo while wet marine would be ships and their cargo. (Malone arrived 3:28)' .... 92- ----------------------- Page 265----------------------- ,2/26 ( , \ HB 178 , pg. 2, Section 12. Chance asked that if someone knew they were HB violating this law, they would only get a $1,000 fine. Mr. KocH 17~ ,Regulation said this is for people that don't kno1v and for those' that know :of Insur. or should have known the penalty is not more than $5,000 for each violatioh. He also noted that in section C, line 9--i£ the person disobeys a cease and desist order the courts can levy a : fine of not more than 10,000 dollarS_t' ,S'~ction 14. McVeigh .asked about the .term 'tt~isti~gft . Mr. Koch~ said this is usually done in life insurance policies and it is . a·.-form 0-£ misrepresentation_ , j '1 '~S~ttiori 15. Chance asked what a fictitious group meant. Koch ~ . -gave the . example of a group of citizensin .the South Franklin t·· .area getting together for, the sole pur.pose of buying insurance ;, (car)--this would give them better rates. This is not considered · the definition of group insurance. He said that one of th~tests. · of whether a group would be.considered fictitious is ~hether th~ primary purpose is to purchase insurance. ,He gave another example of the' Alaska Loggers Association--th~y have group insurahce, b~t there the purpose' for this group w~s to lower losses through a 1 · common safety plan, therefore they were eligible for group insut- ,ance. i . ,-, . . ,f i Section 17. There was some~·, discussion about the material on ,} page 15, lines 2 through 8.' Mr. Koch said this places Testrict~on cn cancellation and is for the advantage of' the public. Mrs. I , Banfield asked about the first section, where the insurer cannot . renew a policy in force for less than twelv~ months. Mr. Koch i ,:said that if the policy was made for less than twelve months iti would not be a renewal, they would merely h~ve to rewrite the I policy. Chance noted that State Farm insures for six months at! a time. Mr. Koch said that under that'arrangement a person has~ . sixty days to decide if they want to remain on the policy. - .. ' ~- .. _- .......... _. Mr. Tillion said ·this was a absolute necessity because he had h~d an insurance cancell~tion before the tour season. was over. ! Mr. Koch also noted that after twelve months of insurance with : th~ same company tha t all of th'ese la'.Vs would apply. t, i . 1 McVeigh commented on notice of eligibility -- he asked Mr. Koch if there was an automobile. assigned risk plan in this $tate. Koch said there was. i t . Chance moved HBl78 out of committee. McVeigh \vas assigned ~ to carry this bill on the floor .. Tillipn, Orsini, Banfield, I and' McVeigh voted do pass. Malone and Chance ~bted no rec. . i , , \ t t -93- f ! ----------------------- Page 266----------------------- page 3 j212~ ::., ' l~', I \',,-,/ HB91--Relaiing to Insurance Settlements. Banfi~ld said . r ) Interest on her notes showed. that if we pass HB178, .thatHB 91 "tv-as not. neede Insur. She said the Spe~ker said that this was not the case. Mr. Koch :Settlements said that this was a different approach and it doesnft do it in HB'91 the same manner. He said their understanding was that HB9l was . to speed settlement~-he said it istheir:belief that HB178, becaus~ of the unfair trade practise'section'will do this. l-Ir. Oshea said the Dept. of Commerce 'subscribes to HB9l but that his research showed there hadbee~.no counterpart of this. type of·legislation·in any other state. He·said the Dept. felt that the imposition of the interest penalty will not accomplish its purpose. The interest amount will. be an added cost to the· premium expense lv-hich will appear in increased costs to the . taxpayer. " . . ' Chan'ce noted that what this bill.was trying to cia was , " speedup claim settlements after the et:mount bad been agreed . upon. Mr. Koch said this was covered under the ·unfair trade "~'" practi~es. Tillion said in Commerce-Comm~tt~e they felt 'that HB17a did not cover this, and felt the good over rode the bad .. . Banfield ~oes not want to ccintinue' discussion.on thissubj~ct .. . Tillion said he will place HB91 on hold. .. .' . . - . - (-'\ HBS77--Limit on Sinal 1 Business Loans~-Tillion said this \\'\ .bill increased the amount available for smallbusiness·loans. ./..~....~...... I ~ The Dept. of Conunerce is not bound to give that much in their . \iJ :Limit'on loans, but it does allow them flexibility. Tillion said.that HB"S7 small people really, in business are screened out because $60,000 is .business not· enough to launch a new project. As an example he said it :loans , would cost much more than that for him to get a· replacement ·boat. Malone moved to report out HB577 with a '.. do pass and asked unanimous cons ent. Orsini ob Jected. :. Tillion thought this would be beneficia1 for business in th~ state of Alaska. . /~ " 'Orsini removed his objection· and the bill was Signed out . Ba~f~,~I~ .. ~_ig~e..~_n5)...~ec.·, ._~veryone else signed do pass ...... __ .____ -.:.__ . Death' HB67S--Death Penalty. Randy presented the list.of H~ 67 \ '. . ;Pe.nalty amendments that he had prepared. " No. l--Pg. 1, line 11: Delete "under sec. 10 of this ~hapter" and insert in its place "AS '11.15.010". No.2. Pg. 1, line 19: After the word "killed" .insert "intentionally." No. 3.Pg. 1, line 29: Delete."rape under AS 11.15.120" a d 'i,nsert in its place the words "forcible rape of a female person 1'., .... . against' her will" .. .. ..... ",: , (1) -94- ----------------------- Page 267----------------------- f' eD ;: ~El r y Z Q, 1 9 / 4 page 4 12/26 I I. .~ McVeigh said he didn't realize that this was a mandatory ." death sentence. Randy explained. that amendment numDe-r 1 \v"as Death to cover a typing error. Tillion said that amendment ff2 was Penalty td cover the bank robber who unintentionally killed someone. HB 67~ Mr. Saylors said he had no objection to the amendments offered. He said he felt this bill should be allowed to go to the floor, ·50 everyone could vote on it. Saylors gave a little bit of history and said this was one of the first bills that he requested on January 21; he said he didn't know what took it so long, but it seemed to be the last one to come out of the hopper. He said he had included the state trooper in the bill and as it was it came out two days before the trooper in Anchorage was kil1ed~ He said he instructed the people in Legislative Affairs as to what he wanted and he was satisfied with what they produced~ He also Cbmmented that this legis- lature undoubtedly 1-vill be kno~vn as the la1-'1 and order session .. Malone asked Saylors ;"il~y they hacin f t- inclucted .cold. blooded m"n-rdAr hp f"llY+. I f11l~STi nTIAc1· \i-; S::Jvi nr':: on c:or-+; n.n 1 1 ;,..,..::o~ ~t.;.,,,", .. ..i. '-,~ V • .l.·_ ;:!_ ....... j"". ~~ 4:'::::""~ 1._ V t_.\....• ....:~ -::...·.l.~tJ·!...1· ,_. ..i.'.J'..... .J""'...I._U,,~ ~ be able to change it to suit the local borough •. Orsini next mention~d combined us~ of the trails. He noted motorcycles and pedestrians~ Tillion said this would be acceptable if it were written into the plan~ Another example. was snOi}{ machines in the winter and motorcycles in the su..mi"ner. It would just depend 't-'lhat was in the' plan., / \. \. .. Dr. Beirne suggested some new language :for lines 13-19 on p~ge 1. Malone also drew attention to the material on line 28. He said that uses might change over a period of time. He said that section 1 referred to those grants made to local: governments to be used for roads and trails. He suggested to the sponsor that we cut off the material at line 14.' He didntt think it was necessary to designate type .of use. Bow- man said that was the problem 3 it seemed necessary t6designate. He said the department might just say all of you could use it. You have-to recognize the. needs of the people.- Orsini asked what the situation "t'las in the nonorganized areas of. the state now. Chance said that presently the local gov- ernments have control except when the state is building a highway. Mr. Seith asked why this had to be a state law, then. Chance noted that it was already state law. This added bridle paths and says the plan shall include designation of incom- patible uses. There is some additional language in here that is offensive to motorcyclists. 3t)~\i:-::~:l 38.ld ~l1~~ -:::::is bill ~.'Tol-,~l~:l ~:'2.~r2. ~o be re2..Cl ~{'~ ·~o::j:.l:l(!~i():l ~,rn n~~~~~~ law. Tillion said that before the final markuo ~~"thi~ ~bili that nembers would have a copy of the la~\T. " Orsini said that his primary objection was to the philosophy on lines 14-19. This is a statement of policy. -102- ----------------------- Page 275----------------------- Page 7 , .. u~ sese sug~~sted la~guage for .!i~es ,Cta'-:1 ::3 310 ~'[ill b~: -'r(;~'>Kec~ on b=,- Rar'-dy. 32i::.->~-:e I ~ncorporate their suggestions into a CS. HB 607 - Wage claims. The Department of Labo~ has been having I trouble with people demanding pay when they quit the job. iRB 60j ~'o'age This says that the demands will be met at the place where the ·~laims employee is usually paid. Chance disagreed and said that it said. you would be paid at an office ~vithin the state. McVeigh said that this was a big problem. He ·said that some corporations pay from their home .office.. This ~'Iill force them to open up pay stations in Alaska. Chance moved this bill out of committee with a "Do Pass rr recommendation., Orsini didn tt know' exactly how this worked. McVeigh said there is a·provision in wage . claims that allows the Department of Labor to assist the employee.· .You go to the commissioner of labor and establish your "tlTage claims; he then has his department la1vyer go into court if necessary to collect the employee's c-laim.. If you had to go to a law·yer· you ""Tould lose most of it to the attorney.· Orsini wanted to ~now how much of a caseload thia chang~ from ·S2500 t:) $5000 ;,-Jould make.. c:I!~V.22..g~1 .S3.id h2 didn rt k::'loW' bu-;; didn't think it would be much different·. The_~ill was signed out. All members signed !!Do Pas~?!. Chance moved ·to adjourn at 4:45 p .. m. -103- ----------------------- Page 276----------------------- 2/28 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE ~i[Il>Ji~r'T 2:3 ~tl:;..~ :.).~ ~lJ" , Chairm2~ Tillion cGlled the meeti~g to orde~ at 3:06 p.m in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments~ Present were Orsini, Tillion, Banfield, McVeigh and Berry. SJR 50am - Urging support of S. 1988. This is to extend the xt9nd SJR 50 contiguous fishing zone. Tillion suggest that we put an ontig. am additional resolve clause on this with respect to the final ishing disposition of S. 1988. It might be changed before it is passed and he felt we should tie our support to the original s. 1988 as submitted. Banfield moved to adopt this amend- ment. McVeigh moved to pass out SJR 50 am as amended with a "Do Pass" recommendation.. All present signed "do pass". SCR 10 - Inadequacy of fines ror commercial ~ishing viola- [nadequacy tions. Tillion noted that this ~esolutioh had been aske~ SCR 10 ';:-' fil"les/ fo.!" by th-2 fisn·?rmen o' Ba,{';.f'ield m':)';~ed SCR 10 ~'jith a' ,rDb PdS3 If reC!o~rr:end~ti'::):~:_. All iJr2sent ~!oted r'!)o P:l3S H • . ~- ,'.iolacions .. HJR 65 - G..c·C!.rlc.1.ng }Jet'ma.rlene exempclon .fromthe provi;;;ions of the Jones Act for the ilJ./V Hickersham. Tillion said he HJR 65 ':xemption had had some suggestions Which indicated that ir we asked for ~licky only for an annual waiver they ~lould not fight this. rJIcVeigh ," moved thi~ resolution out as aInended~'lith a rrDo Pass" recom- mended. rJIcVeigh lJli thdrew his motion since r1rs. Banfield \.,.. sho~1ed that this would have to be made into a CS and have \. -, a change or title. i HB 588 - Relating to the grading and content or the state ~ State HB 588 pharmacy examination. Tillion said this bill was reques.ted • Pharmacy rrom the Board who said that they are constantly having t Exam changes in the examination rrom the National Board or -I Pharmacy.. They lJlanted to have in state law that there are « times they want to put additional things in their examina- .~: tion. Banrield moved and asked unanimous consent to sign . ~ - -- "out HB 5 88 -with a ."Do Pass rf·· recommendat-ion ~ ---.- Malone' si"gned' --------,'- --- ~--------- "no recommendation"; all other signed "Do Pas·s". i . i HB 589 -Relating to the regulation of the pharmacy' profession. Regulation Banfield said that since this removed from our law what is' HB 589 of already covered in the federal statutese She then moved Pharmacy this bill out with a "Do Pass" recommendation." Malone Signed "No recommendation"; all other signed nDo Passu. F~ 344 - Relating to the practice of barbering. (Malone HB 344 ~~2.rbering ~rri~2d 3:20) 7illi~0 s2i~ there were basically not many C~an~?3 in n7es~~~ l~~. He 3aid the b~r~e~s th2~selvps had asked for this. (Chance arrived 3:2~) Mrs. Chance asked to be excused to go to another meeting. She signed the bills th2.t ~'lere considered earlier today .. Tillion further said this bill take$ some of the regulatory powers away from the barbering board. Banfield moved HB 344 -104- ----------------------- Page 277----------------------- Page 2 ':)Jj;2ct~~~:i :.-'O~ tCle 9~~t.C'pos.~ ot-' d..~~cit:..~ 2- (lU-:.:3~i0~o iI"2 ~·'i2.. nc\3(1 to knoi,v if any hairdresser would be considered a barber. This was on page 7. Banfield asked Randy to check to see if there is anything in this bill that says this is to be HB 34 confined to a barber shop so that you couldn't get a shave or haircut in a beauty shop_ He said that licensed cos- metologists are exempt from this. Banfield didnft think that those in the beauty shops were necessarily considered cosmetologists. She wanted to be sure that ~ve weren f,t keep- ing beauty shops from dOing these things. She said that at one ,time they couldnft work on wigs in their shops. Randy said the the definition by Websters showed these people would be exempt from this law .. It says that.they are also called "beauticians tl .. This was noted to be on Page 7:; Line 17. Nalone said that he objected to the location of the appoint- ment'of the members to th~ Barbering Board. He felt the :fifth -~, ~ .... , h ...... .L.. •• - 1 . J.... ~ ". i li:.,:::illoer :dCUl.C. _J.cve :.,0 oe aUvoma-Clca..!... y 2,-ppolnt.,8::l rrom· Anchorage.. '1 Tillion noted that the distri8t for southcent~al ran from Kodiak, Cordova 2 and Ancho~age. So they could be appointed . from any or these places. Randolph will. carry this bill on the Floor. Orsini removed his objection and the bill was signed out 'tvith unanimous.' "Do Pass if recommendation. HB LJ45 - Relating to platting powers of municipalities.' McVeigh said he felt there were oroblems with this bill. Tillion said Don Berry and the r~unicipal League were endors- Platting ing this bill. Orsini said he relt this was actually taking la:1d away from the people.. They are making the people who po~vers municip. buy land pay for parks, open spaces, et c. ,Randy said the reason for this was that a person buying a lot doesn't have any 1,vay he can have access unless the subdivision 01,1ner allows land for this-purpose. Tillion s~id that in the past the . state had sold land that the individual had no ~lay to reach without crossing someone else's land. That is why they . ._____ .____ .___ '____ ._, ._.p_a~ sed__ a __ Jaw:-_,__t.b.at ___s a:1d_s~t at e. _s.uod:1Vis ions____were __ os ub Je ct_.. _t_o.~. _____., ___ the platting and planning and zoning Qf municipalities. McVeigh said that local municipalities were liberal as long as it is somebody else's land. Tillion asked the members if they had ever.. flown over the bad subdivisions in Anchorage. They use these as an example for the necessity for this legis- lation. r1cVeigh said that municipalities have powers of condemnation and they should use this route. He felt municipalities should do this rather·than putting limitations on what individuals can ~O ~'7~'l~n th2Y 1;\iant to start a subdivision. They cou.ld conde:!L'1. a~2as for parks, etc., and pay the individual th~ going value for the land. Malone thought there was a CS prepared for this bill but Tillion noted that there was an amendment prepared by the COrrL'7l.ittee on Community and Regional Affairs. Malone didn f t feel there vIas anything wrong with ·the .bill. -105- ----------------------- Page 278----------------------- Page 3 :':I3.1one s2id t~1e :7l~.1rtic~pcli.t~1 11Eid t:) ~·i()?t a pl2.~I ~~ thei:~ . .::;::,:jir_3.~-:::;2. lIe ·:"~2_ij h:-~ ~1=-~-:L~ ~::; C~::; 3Tc::;tlli~t~ ~'!r::;ng ~\Jitn he.-;iin_~: the subdivid2r providing these things with the requirement of dedicating a fair amount for park use~ Plattir:g. pOi;l[ers He said he could see that a problem would come into it if municip. you were depriving a person of his property right under the fifth amendment of the constitution. This would be taking . it away without due process of law. No one has to dedicate land from their own property for streets. At least they ~vould get paid for the land and it should be the same \"fay for parks. Tillion said there were some states that said i.f you are taking more away than a man Gan recover by the sale of the lots he will have a case in court. He gave the example of not allo~ving mobile homes on lots he sold .. This increased the value of the other available land. In this case> according to such a law as he mentioned~ he would have no case., It increased his other land value. ·"[ll2.1en2 did.n r t fe2 ~ tiiere ~1()uld be 8.n~r violation": of the rights of props~ty wh~r2 yo~ have a zcning and planning department _in the municipality. Banfield noted that we were talking about two different things: through traffic streets,public utilities) etc. This refers to parks~ openspace and recreational lands which lands are not specially ror the convenience or the people living in the area. It becomes public park. She said she knows o.f peo- ( ple who live in subdivision and they are sick o.f this~ "'. Tillion said he realized this but felt that the concept was that there are not enough areas that a~e open so you have overuse or other ar.eas. Ban.field relt that a few people would pay ror a park that is to serve the public. Tillion noted-that ·the value or property in areas where parks are. dedicated are much higher. Randy said the planning and zoning were becoming coricerned about overcrowding. Now he said they \'lere zoni.ng larger and larger lots. --- This runs the price -- o.f property up even -more .-------- - Where they have parks they allow smaller lots •. Banfield said we had a good planning staff in Juneau. She did .feel_ tbat there were areas that could be bought up by the service areas and used as parks. She said certainly they would like to take this route; it won't cost them anything. This is why she objects to this proposal. Randy said there were arguments on both sides. One was why should the taxpayers have to pay ror a park limited to a 3~~11 area. Malo~e not~d that zoning departments could D::·o~_eas as parKs. -106- ----------------------- Page 279----------------------- 2/23 Page 4 :;2:-C>~CS 2.1.~'12 I.-'o[' ~:L1'~ ~,.>:::n2fis a.:;.denjoY28-0.t fo;:" ~v.~r:TO~te :"11 :TB t~"le cc>~·~·!t:11..1n.i.ty a::,~:~ :::~l':;n -e\/er'J(Jn~ b.:!a.:r),~,3'. tha S2~:71·e· re3P.8,nsi- bility. The dedication that is reouired is that the zon- ing department would have to devel~p the property accord- ing to a plan. This is an exercise of the planning power. tJu_nicip. This would let title be acquired. The only place this could go "Trong would be unreasonable zoning or taking o.f property beyond what the state is allowed to do by taking .. pri vate property for pub lie use. He didn't know ho,,1{ you , 1110uld determine the limits. Malone noted that anyone planning a subdivision would have to go before the planning con1.mission and their plan 'i/ITould either be accepted or denied. He didn ft think you would . be taking away anyone's p:raoperty rights~ . This merely pro- vides a mechanism whereby title can be transferred to the' public. He didn f t think there .t-vas any violation of' anyone f s ·constitutional rights. ~-1c.lon2 :..:;aid ~L1is brought u:? another though~. 'I'his was about people who w~nted ~o dedicate land to the municipality for park pu:?poses., Ther,e is no tvay to trans fer- 'title nOT"". In some places they don't have a parks de~artment so they won't accept the land. He .felt that in those areas'where there is no management program for those lands, they should bealloT}Ted . to acquire title in orde~ to protect it for the adjoining property owners use~ Randy said there was another .problem. This bill does not limit the acreage. Say i.f you have tlATO acres you will have to dedicate 5% .for a park. This would be unreasonable .. Tillion said that people like to buy into locations where. parks are available. Orsini said maybe we were talking about i !, a very large acreage with the possibility that there might be f a park in there anyway. For two or three acres or large lots you probably don't need'park facilitites .. Banfield noted that the park is open to the public and not restricted to the I people i.n the._ imrnediate area .... Orsini said he was thinking .-.of-~__ ,__ L.___ . the neighborhood-type park. Having these all o~er the city ~ would be helpful.' f fffcVeigh said he felt this bill \vas too broad. He gave the I example of Mountain View Subdivision in Anchorage. He said -f ASHA had some land in t.his area and the people want them to i dedicate some of this land to park use. They ~I{ant to isolate ,.. the houses .from"the commercial area. The people expect a grant or a gift from ASHA for this purpose~ Since they are dealing with- public funds they canft do this. He said with S0~9t~ing like this, the city - could take a lot of land) valuable la~d, for open space. He s2id the local group would get together and in§ist on these open spaces be~ng provided. r"Ialone said that the only way this could be accomplished vvould be th~ough the planning and zoning commission ofa municipality .. -107- ----------------------- Page 280----------------------- 1 2 /.";1 tc..J Page 5 I ~·'l ~2l C) (: e ~s 3, ~i. cl 7; ~~ '2 =--~L ~.;_:l i ;,:: i ~) 3. ~ .=_ ~ ~.- ~'~/' ~~ ~~~ ~ -~_ ~': f:L ~.r ~~ t;) ~3 -~: -:; r:i ::: C a ~ ~ r~i s _ ' .., - ~·..f,:3.0 i:'1 t}-leir- C~/2.~-'Qll .r}J_d~ r=-If~-~ p2.~~1·:3 ::.~.L~~ r-2~·:;'"")2~~i~J·n. Ti1i3 couldn't come as a big surprise to the cOIThl1unity. Any changes Plattin::; in the overall plan would have to be done by city ordinance. pO~'le rs He said he didn't see anythi~g ~ro~g with requiring parks to municip. be dedicated to the public as a part of an overall development plan. There ~'.Jas some discussion about defining Hopen sp3.ces n. You might want to define them in a narrower way_ You would have to set some kind of purpose for the open space. It would have to be a declared valuable public goal. McVeigh asked about th~ payment in fees instead of dedication of a portion of the land or a combination of both. He thought this was a form of blackmail--w'hat has ,the land to do w'ith money? Tillion said he agreed on this point. He didn't think you should be able to turn in a fee and not provide land. Banfield said the SpQC2 may ~~ so small t~at i~ this case you !'\r:)uld p3.y c. fee. ??_~.:.:~/, ~2.:"d i:e tr-10:.:.gn.t the :;>urpose of this Has that that money ~'iould be used in t~t1e -:e~rtherance of parks. Tillion said this ~\TA.S (!()vered by -the ~r7l~nd~Ant: of the other committee.. He read the amendment that ''las to go on Page 1, line 2l~ Dr .. Fritz was at the meeting and Il,1alone asked him to comment. He said he was in favor of the bille Malone commented on Page 1, line 21, section (b). This referred to industrial use being exempted. He .felt that the committee should consider removing this from the bill .. While you may not want to have a recreational park in an industrial area you may want them to pay the fees~ Tillion said this bill may go out ~vi th individ~al re·commenda- tions and thought that Malone could better get his deletion from the House Floor. McVeigh agreed with f/ialone on this and ___ f'elt .that .. we_should_-delete.- (b) and make--.section·--Ca).- applica- ----- ble to industrial use land, too. Malone said you could expect impact from industry in a community and you might want to say to them that they· have to give Up some fees for other parks. McVeigh agreed with this and noted that at least industry were more able to afford this.. Tillion noted that if you delete (b) and stili add (3) then you can only use the money for the furtherance of parks, recreational or open· space facilities.. Tillion read .the amendment again .. Malo~e questioned the ~~terial O~ li~e 26) Page 1. It nentio~s i-;Yt:-? la~~,j ::?3 lId2(1.ico."':.;ed to ~~_:jlil':: t~32!:. H.=; 33.:"·:i ~~i)'..l =2.~! "b.a'i,"e olats with an open space and he ~a~t~d these de3ig~ated so ~hat people would not think they were open to public use. He felt that on Line 24 in the title you should say nand ODen spaces and other public areas. rf In Line 26 delete the ~vords 110pen space Tf • -108- ----------------------- Page 281----------------------- I ;2/28 , rage 6 Ne.lone still was not settled on the 8atter of fro;;2n sp::..ce fr • L o~ ~in2 12 thi3 t2rm ~is used ~;~~~. ~~ 3~~~ ~t 3~e3e~ to t ::-:3 ~~5 ~-::..~~ ':~~'~.~.1-~ ,:~en.2:,c.Lll~l ·t[~~2 pS'I~J8rS 6r2.[~~t2c- ~,) r:1~:.~~~~;2.1it;_L2G allows them to require open space3 on a plat. He said he ('''-' thought it should have to be established for a public pur- ?l3,t"':.::..:-c;;:; ;"T • • ,. L.' • • '"' ., ,., •• d .. J... pose. l"le "GDOUgD"'C t..na-c lI"Gney naG. no 50a~e pu~pcse -chav pO~\iers it would be unfair to ask anyone to do this. Tillion ~tL!l. c:..p . said that in one state they were doing something similar to this. They were providing open space but the individual retained ownership. They don't take the land from you but place ~estrictions on certain types of development. You can f t build on your l&.~d. This state 1~iill P2.:1 the individual. because they will not be able to build on their own land. It is left as open space. Orsini said he thought that 'tvas· almost the same . Tillion said it iI'iasn't because it did not allow public access. Tillion said that on Line 12 he ~lould leave Hopen space ft in the bill. Malone asked if this was like a green belt or something like it. Orsini said tha~ to him it me~nt und::;":reloned. The~e' ~'Tas some £"U2."'tl:.s-r discu.s3i0~1 8.5 to whec~e.r i 'not- f-.'..., a-,Q:'-'in-=- HOPQI'"\ r"<"". ~,",c. T' "=t;:.~.-i,~ 7';::;.' T :- ..... ~.....,-=- ~'I·Ol'J.-'':;; c' ~ cr. _ v VV >,JJ._J. '--' ~c.L ul.l'--'-\~·",. .l. __ ;..l.v..J -,-~..Lv 'Jl,_ .... ·~ ... ~ u '- problems if the cOTI"..rnittee attempted to c.efine---it" Tillion I gave further information about the condition in the state he mentioned. If a person gives up his right ·to build on his property and later decides to build, he will have to pay back taxes for ten. years back at the new appraised·valu~. Orsini felt this would obviate interest, but Tillion said the increased value would take care of that. Malone thought this was a good idea. Malone thought this concept should be explored. Tillion said he felt this should be made into a CS. Malone said he still didn't think we needed tr open space" on Line 12. Tillion said he felt that open space was difrerent from a park. You can screen the public out of open space but not from parks . • Mal()n~___ ..s.~J.stJ)..~ ___ nqt ~q_;S.OI:I1?_ hes1 tat ion .. on.th.e._part _offJIrs ..._Ban- ______ . --.-- .... - -- ------- ---:field. He said that he had had experience with a number or developers and there isn't ~~y objection to dOing this~ It enhances thevalu~. of the property. He did agree, however, that it did pose a problem where there is no management or lands .for park purposes. He said there might be some objec- tion to the payment of fees.. Randy said that section (2) of the bill may cause a problem where a city refuses to accept the dedication of land. He said there are 6ities that have refused such lands. In this case the city keeps right on assessing the owner who dedicated his land. The . individual wa~ts to provide this ~~rk 3nace bu~ the city won't take title to the land. McVeigh felt there should be a provision for municipalities to condemn land for parks, no matter who it' belongs to, and pay them for it. This is the way they do it for streets and highways. Banfield said that was the problem: they didn't want to pay. -109-- ----------------------- Page 282----------------------- - -... . ~ 2. ~:.. ~.~~ l:5 ~; ::;. -:: a.siJe :;:'or green space. He did not ~;iant to .3-=:2 people torced ·to subdivide by heavy taxes applied to their holdings. McVeigh still would like to use condemnation. ~alone said pO~'Jers that in the statutes on eminent domain the procedure for municip. condemnation .. This is more difficult that what is proposed in this bill. Malone said he knew how difficult it was to get a subdivision approved today_ You practically have to do the same things as for n8~'T highi;,i2.ys--im.pact state:nent) ~ . etc. Malone said that was why he was in favor of this bill. The chairman directed Randy to prepare a CS which will be brought back before the committee before further action. There was further discussion about the municipality having a plan. Banfield felt that if there was a development plan that the person who has to dedicate the land should kno~' what type of park the m~ni~ip~lity will b~ prepa~ing . . Orsini asked to consider HB 310 - designated use of trails, _____ ..: ...'1"1 ___ .z... ..___ ... __, O __ .l-. __ ..!.-~__ 171':-,-;..!_ ..____ ":_'"1 L.1_____ ___ .____ _ Footpaths U.i.:..LU.J...C:: !-,d.l.IHO d.J.!U .1. Uvv!-'C,ldl..;). .l...L..!....!.....!..U.!...1. OCl..":"U VJ..L:;:;.,L.-;:::: 'lid.O OVule iHB 31 language we needed to remove fron this bill. Orsini-said he ~ thought about the concept or putting all types of trails f in the bill and in some way indicating that these grants t are to be used for all of these types of things at local i option. Tillion said there was nothing wrong with that. I i Orsini discussed lines 12 and 13 and proposed some amend- -f " ments. He wanted to add dog sled trails> bicycle paths~ t ski trails~ ana foot paths among others. After mentioning I them once he would like them to be referred to as various I types of trails. and paths. For Linel3 he would like to I have it say something like this: "The plan may allow i separate and incompatible uses of various types of trails l t and paths." This would clearly indicate to local govern- I ment that they are allowed to have specifically sepqrate i -- trails. Banfield -asked if a' titlechange~Tould be' necessary-~--"- ·-r-----'--·-- t Tillion didn't think this was necessary but Mrs. Banfield I noted that motor vehicles' were also included in this bill. I The title ~Till have to be amended to allow both to be men- t tioned. Randy will check this out. Randy will prepare a I CS for this bill. t t Malone said he would like to see HB 463 - Off-road vehicles Off Road use plan - moved_out of cOIThllittee. Tillion.suggested that $ince~HB 46 Vehicles we already have legislation that requires a plan that the . t:;:J~!li tte9 jra~\{ U.9 2,.. r.8301t~tio~ di!'2~tlng th.= cC::-iil1issioner to inst~tute ~ ~lan for such tr~~l~ fo~ Q~f-~c~j vehicl~ use. M~lone will work with Randy on th~s. OrSini will also con- sider this legislation with them. Meeting adjourned at 4:50 p.m. -110- ----------------------- Page 283----------------------- j 3/1 HOUSS JUDICIARY CO~MITTEE ( ..,-, Chairman Ti1lion called the meeting to order at 3:03 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments" Present 't'lere Banfield, Tillion, Orsini, McVeigh, Malone, and Berry. HB 559 - Relating to compensation for the taking of rights- 2ights-of-of_way across state leases. Mr. Fink was the sponsor of HB 55: way/state this bill and was prepared to testify in its behalf. tie leases said that several of his constituents had asked him to put this bill in. He distributed a copy of the standard lease J"orm f"or state lands. He lined out the part in brackets to show~what part he was directing his comments. They pay rental every five years; it is a 55-year 'lease,., Under this lease they (the state) can take a right-or-way without compensation unless you have improvements on the land and the right-or-way passes right through ~he improvemdnt~ Mr. Fink f~lt that anyone who held a sta~e leas2- should have better protection than this. He requested legislation i"rom I Legislative Afr~ir8 that would ta~e care O~~xi6tinE leas~~ as well as new leases. You can't get the· lease unless you sign this .form. A copy of the Torm is in the·file. He gave an example of a doctor who had 10 acres of industrial property. He hasn't used the land; it is valuable land. Now there are some groups that want to take this over so people will buy leases from them. The individuals concerned went over to highways and they told them that they were going to take that land, and, of course, they wouldn't pay for it' under this lease arrangement 0 He thinks this is the result of an overserious bureaucracy that you can take a part of the lease back without paying forite He felt that lessees of state lar.d should have the same rights as any other lessee'~ Tillion said that it has been ruled that if' the land drops ·.in -value -because --of-·--the ..-right-of-way-the--·value --01'- -trie··lease·-----. would also drop and th~~lessor would receive. a refund. Banfield wanted to know~they would have to go to court. Fink said there is one case in Anchorage now that they are settling out of" court. McVeigh thinks this would be a good bille Banfield asked if it needed an effective date. Tillion d~dn,rt think you ~'lould need One and Fink agreed with him .. Malone said he was not particularly kno"'Tledgeable about state leases.. He asked about the language on lines 16-18 on Page 1.' Malone was told that this would bro~den the co~cept of Item 6 of the Lease ?or~ so that the lessee would be e~titled to comp::::r:3d.tion ~\i~eshe:::, or not there ~'ld.S a crop or i[;lprovements on the right-of-~ay. Tillion noted that irthe ~tate thought they might Tdant an easement they should say so be:fore they ~ell the lease. Malone asked how the money would be applied. Would it be a reduction in the lease payment or would it be in cash? Fink said that if" they couldnft agree on the valu- ation, then they would go to courtJ It could be used as a -111-. ----------------------- Page 284----------------------- Page 2 -".....,::-:\ ~ ~- .___ ..:. J. J .. HP 19 Malone asked Nhat happens now when you have a lease from the ?ights-of'- state and there is some undergrou~d resource where an indi- l.'Jay/3tate leases vidual has the surface rights. Mr. Fink said they would pay for any disruption to the land surface. Malone asked if this bill affected that. Tillion said that it did not. Tillion said that yea~s ago we had a '47 Act. They did the same thing in the federal patent on lands. We passed a state la"t~ that said the state is prohibited from uSing-this act. Till:i.on said that this bill "t'Tould give the individue.l more rights to the state land that he has under lease. Mr. Fink mentioned-that the High~vay Department keeps designing new roads, cloverleafs, new curves, etc. You can go in and check with the department and they say that you better not do anything in that area because they are going to take the l·?.. rl"'''' i -=::.: 0 ',,", ". '=l ,..., G' i . .,....:. n -L 0 -,...,;:::> 0 -,,1.0 r·::. 1 Q !:l ~ a d r. n '0 a -l- 1 v.L. -:... -:::. ... -!.... .,.) l .... '_ ~ ............. 'J ....... -...J -L ..I. !. t I '-4 V CJ _ V '- _ 1. l.J :...J _ t..... - '- -=- _ "-'f.., v '- ~_1 _ • Adams said there was practically none. He said they did~ nft have jurisdiction hut this is a service they provide for the court. It is an informal arrangement. Malone asked how many people it would take to provide pretrial supervision. Adams felt there would be a need for three probation officers. Malone asked how many would be needed statewide. He said there was greater need in the major areas--three for Anchorage, and one for Fai~banks--with a total of four. Malone asked Mr. Adams how many more people it would take i~ we made it mandatory to provide pre-sentencing reports. There iI'lould be a need ror three more in Anchorage. This would be a total of 7 more people. Malone asked if these people were in the budget request fn~ this year. Adams S did No. Tillion asked how you could allow plea ba~gaining but not allovi sentence bargain.ing. Adams said he didn rt think sentence bargaining should be allowed at the time of the plea bargaining. (Berry arrived 3:15) McVeigh asked if it wasn't a fact that plea bargaining and sen- - tence bargaining were the same thing. Adams said that plea bargaining is when a man is arrested and charged say on a second degree murder offense. The DA doesn't reel he can press for a conviction so he would of'f'er to plead to a lesser charge of' manslaughter. He there- by takes his chances on the lesser penalty being' charged by 'the court. ~Jhen the DA and the Public Defender get together- and ask the defendant if he will plead guilty to manslaughter that they will recommend to. the judge thathe ___ sentence ___,__ ~ him ~o five ye~~s with thre~ years suspendedo They then give this to the judge. This is sentence bargaining. Banfield asked if Mr. Adam~ felt that offenders really are, changed by going through their facility. He said Yes. Banfield asked what made him think so. He said they would look at the individual's record after they leave. They see how long they keep them a functioning member of society. Banfield asked \lJ'hich "t1as the most expensive: To have parole workers supervising or to have the indi- v~d~~l -lncq~c~rated. Adams said tha~ it cost about lj~~ s~ k22~~~; t~e~ in tj2 in3titu~io~. Banfield s~id that ~2 have people comin~ into Corrections and stay only a fe~ months or a sentence for several years. Do you have them long enough time for those released on early parole to remotivate them? Adams said this would depend upon the individual. -116- ----------------------- Page 289----------------------- 13/4 page :3 I Banfield 32id that t~2 parole bo~rd said they don't talk i t. .:J -t.: ~ l e ~_) ~ ~J;J 1e inC.~) 1'"r ~ c ~ i ;)~---: 3 at) 0 ij. t ~ l-:.~. P 2 r S 0 (1 ll;> !:~) ~..., I r):'·i~ol·2 ~ :=~'!r3 dicl~'1 r t Knt.)~'.r ho:'I ~i()Ll C().!1.1.d. ~ee.. lly e-v-a.. l;_~::lt 2 the person if you didn't do this. Ada.'TIS said one of ( the difficulties in traditional confinement is that the I ~~~ ~:-:C} :')~·jer parole board bases their decision on the conduct of the person while in the institution. This type of thing is valuable in using community release and \'Tork release. Institutional counselors work with the board. In the pre-sentence investigation they talk to the superior as well~ Banfield asked that if in the event that ~e passed some mandatory sentence legislation would he be in favor of honor farms or similar type institutions. Adams asked if she meant something like half-way" houses. This is an attempt to bring tt~ offender back into the community. He said that honor farm:;> work for some of"fenders", f'lost of the of.fenders go back into the streets in Anchorage. He said he r,'Tould like to expand cont:"'TIunit:r service types 'of progra'Tls that ~'Te have i; the st;;:te. ~ Orsini said he had di ffi'culty of g2tt:l ns 8ny flsu.re::; on. recidivism. HO~T many do you really get back on the straight and narrovV'? Adams said they have a two~year study in progress. He said they accepted the National Advisory on Criminal Justice standards and goals for the definition of recidivism. He said he would leave Mr. Orsini a copy. These people were released in 1971 and this is a two-year exposure. It would be well to see how this is broken dO~Tn. .Those who were held in the institution for ten days or more and. had no follow-- up--35% came backo These had no parole, work furlough:J etc. Most of these cases Were alcohol related .. Those on probation that didn't have an institutional sentence served and were given probation--:T2% came back. Those . that went into the institutions and followup given by parole--16% came back. You must understand that the .__ ...... __ ......____ -'-___ ._." one_ get ting.- p rob at ion.... is...-t he:.....b est. - s e Ie c ti0 n .....-Primarily--_._- ---'--- the alcohol related are the highest redldivists. . Tillion said that he hoped burglary was separated out from other types of crimes in this report. Adams said they were making several runs on the computer. Banfield asked to have all material duplicated for the benefit of committee members. Adams said burglary had a 30% repeat. Actually, it wasn't broken down into specific categories--the computer broke down--but the overall precentage was 31%. This also included murder and a~gravated assault. Orsini asked if these are the ones tha-: get out of j ail and then leave the state ~ AclXTI.s said No. These are the ones that go from Corrections and come back to Corrections. They go thro~gh their system: Malone asked if we would be. able to tell~ through the material submitted in the report~ what types of offe~ders we have the least success of rehabil- itation. Adams said Yese -117- ----------------------- Page 290----------------------- The person with the alcohol related offense was the r,=-gh2s~ OD. :"'~':;:~,-cl.i\/7_:"~11<:l._1d ~h~ 12.~~st; Iik21j'- is t~-:; I~~:):'")\~ 3(_-;::;:~~J~~~J t::Y~~2.3 of' ·::;rirn.2::. i':~al(;:;'e .:l':Jt2cl tl1at~ :-]·~·~-lC;:; a person in a corTL'Tlunity program rather than in an insti- tution had a better chance to be rehabilitated, what ar::= the o0~;ortun.ities ::Ln this stat2 for cOhll'7lunlt:.~ c',-ne La':l and Order treatment - programs slanted toward rehabilitation"r OJ HO'.'f do these relate to other of Corrections programs? Adams said they had half-way houses and they contract 't'lith alcohol rehabilitation programs~· Family House and. drug rehabilitation programs. One or the things they unfortunately havenft had access to was the half-way houses. Malone asked if this was because they weren't available. Adams answered Yes to this.. Banfield asked if they ~'iere full-co3t operations. Ada..1Jls said that in the Hit-I Houses 'tlJe charge the person :for room and board if he is working. Orsini asked 1'11r. Adams what was the best step to decrease crime within his jurisdiction~ Adams said they needed more money and more personnel. They need three probation officers in Anchorage, one in Fairbanks ~ith one clerk for Anchorage. They would n·eed anothe~ three probation. of'fi~ers for bail Sl.tP2:"- visoin in Anchorage with one clerk. This would be for bai~ supervision and presentence investigations and resources for psychiatric services for evaluation of offenders. This is one of the weak areas in their system .. The next witness to testify on law and order legislation was Norman Gorsuch~ State Attorney General. Banfield asked ifiJ.Te would have one of our prosecuting attorneys here.. Mr .. Gorsuch said that Bill r1ellow w'ould testify. Tillion said there were a number of bills in on pre- sentencing reports. Plea bargaining is another area. He asked how we could stop sentence bargaining and is plea bargaining a necessity? What would be the alterna- tive? The AG said that presentence reports--requiring this as mandatory for the judges-- would require that Corrections be given enough personnel to do the job .. .Thrs- is a-very good first step~· -.-------- ----- -----... --.- -... --------. Mr. Gorsuch said that plea bargaining depends up whether or not the legislature would be prepared to commit the resources necessary to operate the system without any plea bargaining whatsoever.. We anticipate that probably we would have to double-the size of the criminal division if we do not have any plea bargaining. Initially in Anchorage they would need 12 more prosecutors to handle the felony caseload. These cases would be going to trial instead of ple2ding out. ~he~e are ot~e~ aspects of plea barg2ini~g tha~ has to be understood. This ~ela~e3 to the --evidence in the police investigation doesn't always matchup with the charges made against the indiVid- ual and there must be some discretion when you see that the evidence doesn't support a first_or second murder charge but this same evidence would support a charge of manslaughter. This is exercised in the plea bargaining process. There has to be this flexibility. -118- L ----------------------- Page 291----------------------- ·1 31" If there is any attempt to limit plea bargaining there ~-:':_t~3t IJe r-~~~,)~~'J~:;~ to b·,~.cl·: tl1':S tl~p. ~Th~re st1_ll Iit!"'!'3C o-=- ~~ r:"; !.~ ~ .:l i '~l ;'-~ ~:') ~~: ;:. ~ t);t :;\{ ~ -: ~ t l-;.:~ "9 r~) s ::; !.:! Li t i ~J .:;.. as t i.J· --:t'j 112..7; r-: e would charge the individual with. If any plea bargain- ( \ ing bill does not provide that discretion~ you may end _"::1/ and 027der up t~yiTIg matters that should not have bee~ brought up in the firSt place. You can provide sufficient safe- guards in the system through the use of presentencing reports, providing some additional prosecutorial person- nel. You eliminate the pressures in time and resources v.fhen you consider the gravity of the offense \'lith which a person is charged. Compare that to the manpower necessary to prosecute the man charged. Improvement .can be had by providing addi.tional personnel in the DAts of"fice" He has a better opportunity to drive a harder bargain with these additional people. He will then have the personnel that can ta..l{ethe matter to trial" There is another aspect that he will be less hurried and. t'lillmake a more careful determination upon ':,.;hich to charge the indi 1ri6.ual 0 This gOes "v'Ti th mand2.tory sentencing. t ~hQ~A n~n h~ Q~PQ~~- ~~om ma~~~~'o~y. rn4ni~urn -Qn~Q~CQ- i IrVthe'-';~nd~t;~~ ~ ~~~t;~c~ li.rt~~ high~Y;~ ~:;o~idv;~c~~;age i lllU.L't::: p~oplt! to go to trial and run the risk 01" trial. They k!10~\1 they ~·rill have to serve a minimulil sentence. The impact of' this on the resources. tvill be he.avy. There ( is also 'the practical effect. Juries might be reluctant to convict if the sentence is too high. They may lodk for other ways to find the defendant not guilty in a close case. The mandatory minimum can result in addi- tional expenditures to operate the comppnents of" the system. Generally, there are other areas in which we can strive to improve what we are doing.. .One ""'lay ,..,ould be through establishment of higher grade levels f'or prosecutors.- so we can encourage more career prosecutors than what we are now able to retain.. There is a' job cycling in.____~. ·· ..-·~-.·-·our· office~'-- we·' should have.. ···higher···scales ·re·c6gnfzedbY-·-·-"-· higher pay_ Provide us with sufficient additional tools to en60urage career prosecutors. On the average experi- ence in our major DArs offices is quite a few years more than is thought to be the case. ~ve should seek to give this encouragement to those who do have the experience .. In this respect, Gorsuch said he would second ~vhat Mr. Adams said about additional personnel for Corrections .. He felt this was something that he could see' from the prosecutors' side and that Adams and his people are expected to bear a heavy bu~den of cases. To control "':;~::; ;;eo;:m trouble soo~er, you need more qualified personnel. -119- ----------------------- Page 292----------------------- t This c0uld be.done by bqil supervision programs, if I ~. :~ .,:. p ~:: r ~:,;'" ~. ,.:. ~~ .~l·~?! c1l ~ ·3.~~ ~.~ ~:1 i 3 :...r i ~ ~~ :~< ::. ::1. -L a:J ~-: ?; ~.~.i.~ .--.i ~ 0 t~; ~'l.:-' ~i ::-;.~ :3 .!.. ~~, -;: ~~ ..~ ~ ~ :-l~': .:-\~ 1f~. ',_~.L ~-'l ~ -2 i ~~ ~Il~; -::: C l rl~3 t 1"11 ~3 Pcl~t;:" t~ ~~_l.e,".r problem. o~ bail ju~isdiction--H2 didnft think there was any need for a massive revision of the bail provisions in the statutes. The administration bill addresses one problem. This is a good first step to allow the pros- ec~tor upo~ proper showing to the judge to pass to the court after a short delay additional evidence that may come into ~is possession--showing something from the individual's background. This plan is sometimes looked upon as 2. 48-hou2:"' detention period. This is not true. If the judge would delay the granting of bail for a few hours--the prosecutor would have some time to get addi- tional information on the individual's background and character that should be presented to the judge allowing him to set a more proper figure for bail. This will also provide 8.D 2.ddition.ql degree· of protection for the public. A recent decision, MQ~t~n dec!sion, by the Supreme Gourt clarified the bail provisions i~ our constitution so that the Superior Court and District Court judges have sufficient leeway so they carr grant bail. One of the problerm ~'ras the ambiguity in the bail statutes and the constitution. This decision will prqvide ground rules ( that can be applied by the lower court jud~es. This \. .. will help solve some of the bail problems. He said there-are some indications that this has helped because there have been some fair and reasonable bail settings in Fairba:1ks lately. He felt this was true in Anchorage recently, too. McVeigh asked him what he thought of a statute that required defense prior to trial to reveal alibi defense. Mr. Gorsuch said he didn't see any objection to that approach. Notice of an alibi defense was a reasonable request that could be made by the pros~ ecutor or the defense attorney under general rules of the court. You can propose an amendment to the existing criminal rules or the legislature could cover this by initiative. McVeigh asked what wbuld be the ~anction if the alibi were not revealed before the trial. How could you enforce this? Y6u go to your criminal pre- trial conference and he doesn't reveal his alibi defense and at the trial he gets up with his alibi defense and time doesn't permit the prosecutor to check it out. Do you take it at face value--what kind of sanctions do you have against the defendant should that~occur? Gorsuch felt this would be sufficient grounds for obtaining a csnt~~~a~2e ~Qr ~xa~inin; ~he new evidence and to prc- . ,~~~~~.;~~ ~~~t~~~~~=-=- ·t~:j-::.i.;n,J~l~r. A.s fa:.~ 2.S sc.. nctic'ns a62~inst' the defe~d2n~--I would have to think about that. McVeigh said he hoped this "vould be examined. Tillion said we will check to see if we could do it by statute. -120- ----------------------- Page 293----------------------- ! 3/4 1 Fage 7 e.n asset to the prosecutor if that infor~a- c_~_ ~)~-: ·.r~l~:=; '~-~~~l:~~L·'::i)e·:~. ~)L~i~):~ 0C) 't:-::2 t~.~a~. \1()r3L~':;:'"'2 (l~~'-'~e:i' ! t ~.: ;~'G t':2 -~ 3 ~:~;o Lt 1cl 0 e ~i S.2 i-l1.1 • r~'18"\/ e ~ ;l! rt12n t i OI1~ d. 3. c; 2.3 ~ i ~1. i \ '-" Atlanta, Georgia. Gorsuch said tha.t case came about by the motion of the prosecutor ordering disclosure of this par~icula~ defense. There are constitutional problems Le.~('; and Order with respect to the witnesses, etc. This related to his self-incrimination rights. In view of the Supreme Courts's decision on Friday--they can hold them for a time--he incriminates himself if the witnesses that he is going to use refer or imply that he was engaged in some other crime other than the one for Nhich he was I',., charged--this ~Tould be incrimination" This. could lead the police authority to charge him fdr crimes that they otherwise wouldnft know about. This decision was on MarchI. Tillion noted that Mr. Snowden would get copies of this decision for the committee for tomorrow'. On plea bargaining. Malone ask~d if there was a need to continue this practice or··make extensive cOffiitii tments .. of manpower and resources to the components of the t system. Gorsuch. said this was true. Malone-said plea bargaining as he sa~i it "VIras pleading guilty toa lesser t degree of crime. The other thing is sentence bargaining, wherein there is a guilty plea to the charge and there is discussion as to a recommendation that they would make to the court. The court doesn't have to follow this but they usually do. Malone asked if the·district attorney could decide on what charge to prosecute. Gorsuch said this was correct. He said the ideal system would be one in which you had enough manpower to review the evidence and charg~ th~m with what the evidence shows. Obtain a guilty charge at that time to the charge and leave the sentencing up to the judge~ Although, this wouldn't work in a lot of instances. As a practical matter, plea bargaining exists because ~Te don f t have the manpo"tveror the resources to do otherwise. Malone on where it is . used as coercion--One of the things stated in ~arlier .. ' _.._.._.__ .___ , ..testimony by Mr. Balfe is .that. sometimes the.police.over~:.__ charge·. That is one of the reasons that charges are reduced. The question he would like to ask --In general what type of problems are there that the DA runs into ~ecause the police haven't made a prop~r case? Gorsuch said we need improvement in that area of' police training. This needs to be coupled with sufficient resources in the la~T enforcement departments on both the state!) local and dity level. This would produce a higher quality invest1~' gative report. If you have this plus a police officer that has been ke.pt up to date on the 'latest.rulings of tl:2 COU:>:: 27::)'_:_ ~'-Till probably redi~c2 the o";T2rchargir..2; a!ld p~0duce ~ sore consistent result in the charges fer which a man 1s arrested. -121- ----------------------- Page 294----------------------- j3/ 4 Tillion asked if Mr. Gorsuch ~ould see a~y addition~l I presented with an agreed upo~disposition of the case from both sides. Then after cO:lsidering the recommenda- tion ~ill then render ~he ssn~e~8e C~ the ~~dividual. The judge can disregard the bargain that is presented _::..-..! and O:>cer but he usually doesn't do that. Sometimes the attorneys make no recommendation and leave it completely up to the judge. Orsini asked the AG whether proper punishnent is a deter- rent to future crime. Gorsuch felt that it ~vas 0 At least he doesn't disagree ~\Tith the concept. He feit that' the Supreme Court opinion adequately stressed the need to balance the protection of sO'ciety ~vi th the rehabilitation of the individual. Orsini asked what is the best thing 'we can do to decrease crime ~I{ithin the Department of Law. :~;eG~~~~~ha:~i:o~~i:e:~Ul~h~: !~~~O:!~~s:h~s~S~:!~;her- I he Ip T.'Jould be the pas se.ge of t~e '8ai 1 st a~ ute. 'This l.'lould I . ~~~lsf~~ITit~~ec~~~~8~~t~~~~i~f!~~P~;~~~ w~~~:;f~rs;~!Pbail. I Orsini said that many people seem to feel that the ju~ges f are too lenient in their sentencing. Do you concur? Gorsuch said the judiciary he has observed have been handing out reasonable sentences. Banfield asked Mr. Gorsuch if he had appointed any prosecuting attorneys. He said No. Banfield asked what the criteria for a prosecutor would be. She said she couldn't tell the difference between a prosecuting attorney and a defense attorney. Gorsuch said he felt the criteria would. include experience and judgment. ·Generally speaking those people that have been with the criminal prosecutorial process for any length of time and do possess the requisite degree of judgment--they have the proper mental outlook to handle the prosecutor- ial function ..... The .third thing he. would .190k forwould ...___ be ability to work with with other people. These would be the three requirements for a good prosecuting attorney. Mr. Gorsuch said you would"always have new men to break in. He did feel that we had a high degree of experience stater/vide. Banfield asked about pay range. Gorsl,lch said they are paid basically on the pay scheme at the appropriate range level. He said they tried to see that there are enough senior grades in an office. He said you had more prosecutors i~ some areas and more people i~ ~~e civil departnent in other ~reas. 3a~field .: 2.~d 3~e -'I~,-S pointit!.~ tt);'T2.rcl ,2. !~ar\~·~r P~~,)S2C~_itor. ".H,')V\j· can we keep these people? Gorsuch said this was a proper question. Prosecutors always reach a level When it is more advantageous for them to go into private practice. We need to provide more incentive to them. -122- ----------------------- Page 295----------------------- -------------------------:---:--:---.--,----------~·13/4 Page 9 2l~ctiv2 9r~se~U~O~3. ~e sa~~ ~e ZeIt thi3 would te an inappropriate remedy. In Alaska w;e have not had any problems with any corruption in our DAfs office .. ~nenyou ~ave so~ebody elected you might get this. This increases the possibility of "corruption because certain decisions may be made for reasons other than the disposition of the case. If it was near election ti~e a DA may exercise judgments about what cases he will prosecute and what he will do that won't necessarily fit the circum3tancesc Like do a .favor for all the merchants in tO~"ln and collect all the hot checks", He" would be doing this, when, in fact, while you are leaving insufficient resources to handle more serious crime. You ~'Tould find decisions made more for elections purposes than for justicec You would increase the likelihood of abuse ~ " B~~field asked Xr. Gorsuch about HE 515 which gives :a persona 6-ma~ jury. She asked his view of this legis- lation e He said 112 ~J.adn f t forl7lulated an opinion on ,that yet. He felt that if the accused was willing to gn Rlong" with that he couldnft see any problems~ He said he would not \IJant to make" a .6-man jury mandatory. The reason for this is that it would tend to affect the "quality of the prosecution. We still have the obligation to prove beyond ( a .reasonable doubt and this is better accomplished with a \. 12-man jury .. Malone asked about the additional needs for pers,onnel in prosecutions and what has been the position on the legis- lative handling of the position. Gorsuch said they had riot received any overjoyous response for additional prose- cutors. In 1971-72 they requested three and got none. In FY 1973-74 they requested two and received one. This year they have requested six--we are now trying to play catch- up. lve have added to this the impact of the pipeline. I.f you are interested in .beefingup "the criminal justice. "" system you should treat that department tiith adequate funding. Malone asked Mr. Gorsuch if he'was personally in favor of la1:'TS providing for campaign and election reform in the state of Alaska. He said he Ttlas. On mandat.ory sentencing--you stated that you thought juries might be reluctant to convict- Do you have any evidence that this has happened? Gorsuch said he thought that comment was based on the observation of the DA's as he ~iscussed t~is pr8b12~ with the2. He 3£1d with reapect to gra~d jury i~1ict22nts--ce~tain offe~ses were dlscoun~e~ because of the severity of the possible penalty. He had observed this when the grand jury was seeking indictments. -123- ----------------------- Page 296----------------------- .Ji '+ P~r.-c:. 1n - -0""'" --- Malone asked if mandatory sentencing was going to con- ~l~ifJl..:_te t·~ .j4~~~~re~~32 ~.J le:3. :=:.2..r.;2~i:1i:'lC;. Q,:;-~s~J_c:h .felt ~::.~:-; is ~~1·.Jj-,~ __~C~ '~':_:'-l.~;~~)~~~j~J.~k:! ~~C' .3- Llec~·2a.s2 ~L~! pl2:l c·:l:'6':li.c:i::.g. There would be more relu6tance to plead guilty for a particular crime when they knew they were going to be subjected to a ~ini8um time in t~e institution. Malone asked about the case that the penalty would call for La~'i ar:.d Order the mandatory death penalty. The prosecutor would have a pretty good lever for the person to plead guilty to a lesser crime. Gorsuch said the evidence would have to support the first charge. This would not necessarily mean that the evidence would convict them. Bob Mellow commented. He said that the jury would not know what the penalty or minimum sentence would be. Nullification is a very real concept--refusingio follow the law on the guilty verdict. He didn't think the mandatory mini- mum would have that much effect unless the people were generally knowledgeable that certain types of things now carried mandatory minimum sentences~· Malone· continued the discussion about the hesitan8Y to meting out such penalties.. Grand .j~.lri2s ..... -kno;\fi.ng what: .sentences _~'{ere for particular offenses--how- do you see tne continued grand jury operation in the State o~ Alaska. Should tve have mandatory grand juries, do away with them, or make them optional? Gorsuch said he felt grand juries were a needless duplication on the part of the prosecutor. You are doubling the manpower. Mr. Gorsuch said if you had pre-trial hearings you would preserve the rights of the defendant and limit the burden of the state in coming for"tlTard twice. By leaving it optional, he felt this would improve the efficiency or the system and preserve the rights of the accused. He said there was a resolution before the Judiciary Cowu~ittee two years ago on thiso (HJR 103) Malone brought up testimony by Mr. Adams with respect to problems ~\Tith psychiatric evaluations. What kind of problems do you haven()w with oivt_1:qomrn~trnent __ ~n_J~_b.~ _______ -------------------state--bT. -Alci"sl(-a-:?- --ls----fhfs----be-i-ng -liandled adequately now? This relates to mentally disturbed and those committing criminal offenses. Gorsuch said they had one problem in that there needs to be some clarification of the responsibility of the court system and the HESS with respect to treatment and care of these individuals. It is mostly of a budgetary nature and there also is a vague area or jurisdiction that causes us on the civil side in the Department of Law to sometimes engage in repartee 't'rlth HESS against the court system on the terms of place2en~ of individuals. There is a n~ed td cle~r tnls up. H2 3~id he wasn1t familiar about the quali~y of psychiatric care. Malone said he meant only where his office was involved and was satisfied with his answer. -124- ----------------------- Page 297----------------------- J i . Mr. Sno~'lden said the cOTTl..rnittee probably had some specific I i ,':~:.~.~?st;iO~l~ ~~~:~~/ ~~TD#::r::~'i t:.~ ;.lS:::.":. Cie a:r::;·:~~.\." '3;~-~T~ ~::.~ ·:-;\")t~~t!" '3 I :::::e~:s:::~W~::i:~:::~:: :~:e~:: :::::::l:r:::c::::::~ns'I,: They have asked for a raise but the~e is no specifi~ answer to that problem. Malone felt we got specific answers from Mr. Gorsuch. He recommended establishment of another level for these professional prosecutors so they will be more apt to stay in the system. Banfield asked if prosecutors should have specialized training. Snowden replied that there are a number of courses avail- able now. He felt that all of the professions would benefit by preliminary training as they come into the field. Public defenders and the prosecution staff--they are recent law school grads. Training would be beneficial also with new judges 0 Tillion asked about presentence reports before sentencing, plea barg8.ining and sentence bargaining--the difference between--and ;Hould like to l;:::ar Ivlr. Sno~\Jder.. r S cornJ.l1ent s on these subjects. Tillion said that when a judge sentences somebody and he must serve 1/3 before he is subject to parole--there has been criticism for a judge to make sure so they use the 180~ay rule. He would also like to hear his remarks on the -6-man jury. Mr. SnOWden on presentence reports. He said the court would require by rule that presentence investigations be done 0 This only required a one word change in the rules from TfmayU to tfshall". He said if the cornmittee . would rather pass a statute> the court can't say anything~ We have' agreed to change the court rule so he doesn't see any need·for the statute. We do need funding and there hasn't been any yet. He felt the court system would amend the rule even without the funding. ------ ------ ..---- - --Plea--bargaining-"ve-rsus sentehce-bargaining.-"···"Ri·ght-·"n-o~Ij---------~----_ .. there is no requirement statutorily stating that the judge must accept the sentence as it is suggested by-the defense or prosecution. Mr. Snowden therefore felt the judge has the latitude to impose any sentence he determines proper. This has been called to the attention of the trial judges in the City of -Anchorage. There are many cases where the Judges have as~igned stiffer sentence than those requested and iome have been more lenient than t~at suggested. They haVe this power ~ow.· Tillion said there was some talk- that the jud~e entered into th2 negotiations. Snowd2~ I s~id he would take except!on to t~e co~nent that the ~ judge bargains with them. He did think the judge would be in a better position with pr~sentence reports. The judges thought that the prosecution and the defense knew more about the situation than they did. Tillion said as he understood the process, the judge admits that he will not give them more than a certain sentence at the end or -125- ----------------------- Page 298----------------------- n ____ .,~ .1. a6e ..L.c... This is what the people are objecting to. Sr~.~ i:'i \..: ~~:. ~S C:~ -~ __1 ~ ;'! i_ J ~~ ~.~/ :~ -3. ~~ 'S-: ~ ~--: O~:. '.~~.?t.:'"\"~ (~~ '.~ is i C>·~S ~~i :J. ~ t ~~ __~ l·J_·~~·C:::" ·S~:.J·-'-: t;-~~.~ :~:--~ ~~.J.~:':.:- ~)C~·~~2·~:)~-:· -~~--~":'; J!..-~-'2~';:~~3 ~1a~_-~ .1")~~1~5~~~i or lowered sentences. Tillion felt this was probably in the absence of an agreement. Snowden said he could see why pecple woul~ obj~ct. 22 said he co~ldnft cosm2nt on it. This is happening before individual judges under individual circumstances--there are no statutory amend- ments for this. He said he would ask the Supreme Court to take a position on this if you have legislation on this. At the present time they have not made a decision on this subjecto He said he could~ft give his opinion to the co~~ittee at this time. On the 1/3 sentence before probation or pRi""ole---Mr. Snoi,'i- den said he had no opposition to such a statute. Malone said that in earlier testimony it had been said that the judges don't reply to the inquiries sent by the parole board. He asked Mr. Snowden is that was true. Snowden said this has been true in the past. Since the ti~e of thab inq~i~y the Chief Justice has stated as a matter of policy that any time a request comes in, the trial judge should answer it. In the first place~ the trial judge probably didn't have enough information.. Five years later he doesnrt even remember the man. His input would probably be very minimal. It might be good that the parole board get a copy of the ( presentencing investigation. To answer that specifically~ he said he was with the Chief Justice--he knew he requested that any time the parole board requested this inrormation that the judges were to respond, even ir they only said they didn' t kno\~ anything about the person. Orsini asked ir the Supreme Court has discussed the constitutional changes on punishment as a deterrent to crime. Snowden said there was some discussion in the letter submitted to the committee. There was the Chaney case--they included that as part.-_ of"_ the crime. -'--____________ _ This matter has been clarified in this case. No con- stitutional amendment will be needed. Orsini asked Art about suggestions as to how the average person could inform himself as to'the judges qualirications vThen they come up for confirmation. Snowden said that \~as a very hard question to answer. He said they were endeavoring to let the people know by publishing~-in Anchorage--disposition of all criminal trials that the judge makes. The people then can rollow the sentencing pattern. He said he hoped that the newspapers would =tlsc) prin't -i;~:.-?tller t:-t-2 indi ~ric1i_18.1 is cl. .t~i~3t oft'ender; r8ci{il~v-i5t;l 0~ -/~r:La~e-\ler iY': artier to :TI.::tke a \taltte jL~d.g­ men~. He suggested that the Bar association could take an opinion on this. The citizens should be entitled to know what the lawyers say on the matter. Orsini suggested that perhaps the Bar association is not an unbiased source. There are a couple of problems--some will eventually become judges and secondly, the Bar association has a -126- ----------------------- Page 299----------------------- 19.rger rll~tmber of de fense typ,= la::'fyers than p~osecutor ~YP2d and t~~refo~e ~hey ~o~lJ ~2 for prJ;;:)p~t-;t_L ves -:;::.... :':lO2:"'6 p-C'O~12 t~) 3:,:.;JP,8*c-t against a stricter judge. Snowden felt they were sophisticated enough to judge a judge properly. Pro- i~ fessional enough not to use b~a5 in th2 judg~~nt. Orsini asked about sponsoring seminars or providing tours of the courts. He also asked about involvement of others in the appointing of judges. LaN enfbrceme:nt type people rather than attorneys. Snowden said Mr. Hicks who handles selection and nominations of judges would be better equipped to answer that question. Mr. Sno~de~ didn't want to comment on it. lYlalone asked fiIr. Snowden ho-:.v- important is the area~iide police -to the administration of justice. SnO"'.ATd.en felt_ it was very important. He said that "\i'lhen you talk about crime it is common to blame the court without looking at the whole picture.. He said one of the problems is that pe.ople are more prone to COI7h.'TIit crise -:'ihen they kno~~T thci.o')e is no apprehension possible. He said he had been told that there were three policing in the area in Anchorage. That is one of the greatest_reasons for the increase in the burglaries in Anchorage. 1 am saying- we do not have enough police. Tillion said you then have to consider that one out of every three w~ll be dOing this again. Some are earning their living as criminals_ Snowden said ~his was correct. Corrections figures have not brought out the fact that either long sentences or short sentences were the best. They didn't comment on the length of' the sentence. Tillion said about -3-5% of the burgIars return. Sno\'fden said after four times they could be charged with being an habitual criminal. He said he didn't mean to imply that.the courts weren't part of the problem. It is very complex and the finger has been pointed toward the courts all too often. _ Chance asked if there was any lw'Tay to identify the repeat --- --- -----------·----o-tferi"d~ers ---fhat-·-come·before--the- --court·s. --- Snovrcie-n- -s-ai"d -- they-- did. They don't have an efficient way. This is one of the drailvbacks.. He said it is his intention to develop such a system. Nonetheless~ the courts have ways of identifying repeat of'fenders. Prior convictions can be brought up at the time of sentencing. Mr. Hicks said this information could be included in the presentence reports showing the f'ull disposition of' the case. Chance asked about when you re_lease a person on bail, prIor to tri~l. Snowde~ said there w~s a r~cent decision t~1~3.t said if theyt-iere a d2.Dg=:..~ to the CO:Tu"1""J.nity it is an element of the decision6 Chance asked if they had records at" the point to determine whether the person is a danger to the COTIi...rnuni ty. Sno1vden said the man is indicted by the prosecution. At the time of the.bail hearing the prosecutor can make this known to the court. -127- ----------------------- Page 300----------------------- !j/ ~~ t Page 14 I he couldn't answer in an absolute fashion. He thought they were, though. One of the problems, before the ~fl:lrtin C2Se, ~\~23 ta1<:erl care of recec!.tly. TIJ..is 1~\J2..3 in early January. He felt we would see a marked difference in bail settings now. Chance asked about pre-trial release. Is there personnel adequate to supervise the pre-trial release? Snowden said he didn't think we had enough people to supervise the ones on parole and pro- bation. There are certainly not enough for pre-trial I release. This is my personal opinion. Nobody is doing I anything on that now. A number .of states had ba~l agencies~ The. District of Columbia gets a report to the judge for t the bail hearings. Just like the ones we have been dis- I cussing. The agency supervises the man out on bail if i there are no stipulations set. Laws will not do the job I unless you have the personnel. The reports are helpfulc ! ! ql:.23tion rel3.~eCl to bail. On the report ! t:la~ the j ~t:'lg\=:; {:~~S to :12.\[2 as t'o ~~lrleth'2~ t~1e ;;2r30n ~\iould be a danger to society--do you feel 'that we would still need a system or personnel to supervise these people if they are released? If so, should that be with the Division of Corrections or with the Court system? Snowden asked if she meant-do we need it? He said he ( didn't feel qualified with his short stay in this state , to answer that question. He said you could also set up \, an independent agency. They could handle this. They would have mandated duties to perform as outlined by the courts. He said he would voice no opinio~ as.to where it should be and he would leave it up to the l. com~ittee5 Chance asked if there was need for additional legisation or state administration for the courts to better identify the repeat offender. Snowden said he thought the court will be able to do this without additional legislation. He said he will gather the information. As for the time frame--it will be manual for awhile. It will probably be six months before AJIS will be able to let us use data processing. Malone returned to pre-tri~l release. He asked if there was no supervision by Corrections. Snowden said there is- none by anyone. Malone said these are people charged with crime and they are out on bail. There are 80 some days on the average before trial. Snowden said he felt the average nO~\J was less than that 0 It used to be 120 days but now most are at 80 days or less now. Staffing the J:;_~_ts ~:/()~;.. ::J =?i~<~ it ~/Tor~( bett2l'l. If ~.. ou st2.1""'f.' o.r~l_~~:- ()::'2. :;._~:12, :/.-j~_~ ~""J.~ ~l :l~\:"t; a ~:.[o~~·:l(;3~i j c:l.~TI ~3.·t 3.rl:)tc!::;r pJ_3.:-:e. Ua:one 25~2d if this was a problem of not enough manpower only in the judicial branch and the department of la1v. Sno~den said it was not in the court system. -128- ----------------------- Page 301----------------------- . I Page ~5 I rj~alo:.!.:~ ask:::d i\'Ir. S~o'Hd'2~ if ;';2 .':T2:::-'e -3.n:/ C l.C3er to gett1rlg·' L an an6wer on what to do about the redistricting. He said i that Mr. Hicks was working on that ~tudy. He said he~ Would present all the ~iablealternatives. Art said he' Order 'had suggested that maybe we could create one district for the whole state. We would have to do something with the election' laws to compensate. He said he couldn't take a ptisition on this. The study will be completed in two weeks. Banfield said .there were also two resolutions that ask ror a pr6secuting attorney in Kodiak. She aSked if" Mr., Hicks had an interest in this.' Hesaid,h~ didntt~ Orsini asked what the most important thing that could, be done ,in the Judiciary to reduce crime. Snowden said' he" didnttthink.it.was the courtts role to reduce crime, ,but to give justice. The primary goal of the' courts~ "is to see. that p20plerecei~J"e,:' justice. He said he has" "suggested thatth,e courts ~:;.ecomemore efficient .ip.the processing of cases. He said the courts have a mandate to give speedy justice .. If'a man is g~ilty he should get an appropriate sentence or rehabilitation.\"ihen· this is done right, you benefit society." " rtIalone asked about the degree of justice meted out in the bush areas as compared to urban areas. Snowden said this is one of their prime targets--better bush justice. They have created a Bethel service area. We' intend to go to Barrow to create a service area there. We must bring about more equal justice in.the bush~ This is not true only of the courts but the ~ntire Alaska system. ,Retain the HJR 65 - '\vicke'rsham - was signed out and submitted to the Wicky chief clerk's office. JR 65 Me~tin~ ~~journed at '5:05 p.m . . ," ..___...__..,.____•__ •... ___ .________ _____ ·~____~._...___h._..___ '________._~---______ .-:-.~_. "_" _________________. _._____ ...~--.-------_-_...........--__ ._._._._ .....__ ._--.,-___ , '\.·<'~I -129- ----------------------- Page 302----------------------- HOUSE JUDICIARY COt'!Il'iIITTEE 3/5 Tuesday, March 5, 1974 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order'at 3:09 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present : were Tillion, Chance, Banfield, Malone, Orsini, and Berry. Judge' Nora Guinn from Bethe 1 1"3.3 present. The committee la:,v and order was considering the law and order legislation and wanted - . ,.. , to hear her comments. They would especially like to "ask he~opiriion of the service area con~ept ..Did she think it would work out. Judge Guinn said this is a very new concept. She.said Mr. Snowden was in on the hearings to try and ge.t sqme service 'out into that'area. She said they were in' the'Fourth 'Judicial District and had to~nswer to Fairbanks. . In. felony cases. they have to go to Fairbanks and generally h~ve tb wait a long t~me before' trial 'ahd then they have 'no peers on the jury.' The individ~al is also in alien surroundings. Some of the judges, Mr'.: Hicks and Mr. Snowden eame to the conclusion that we weren't getting the type of service we needed. Travel patterns. were bad.' Bethel to Anchor~ge and then to Fairbanks. It was felt we would get better se~vice .if the superior court judges would come to us for . adoptions , and other civil matters. Most of the time it was, Judge Sanders from Nome. It took him two days of travel time to reach Bethel. The new set up will allow Anchorage tQ serve Bethel now. Public Defender and DA are from Ancho.rage. This is a much more feasible plan. Judge Guinn said she felt there was need to come to some agreement for rent on buildings~. etc.' She explained . ... -------.- .. - ..-.---~.------ what had.happened .. on-_.their.__ firs t __ .j ury_... trial_~__ .It__ .~..,as--~_....:.~_·._"__ ._....__...~_ - very expensive. She said jury pay alone totaled $7,000. ' . This did not· include meals and lodging for the jurors.' Rent for the trial quarter~ was $150 a day. It was th~ studio for KYUK. The trial ran about 12 days. . She said .. there are no adequate quarters to house the judge when. he comes. She said the service received under the nelff arrang'ement made by' the court system is far superior to anything they have had to date. 'l'h.o ".:l'YlOa 'Ju'ld'O'o r:!.1 1 -i'1n ifJ~aC' s"'"\c"::llr-1.1.·"'CY c? ;:::, ~br.,,+- +-hc c::i 7<-~ -,-_.,- ~ ......... '- . ... 0 ....... \...A.v\,,-=-~ .1.._ ....... ::,J'-'i.....;...t~...L.~.1..o ...!... -.!....w a. VULt 'J':'J.\,." ......., ____ _ of the state of Oregon with 18,000 to 20,000 population. Banfield asked if the judge needed an add'itional judge or a part-time one to help her. She had not thought of that .. She said she would like to have a public defender and a DA though. She said' the Anchorage district court would help her out if she needed to disqualify. herself. 130 ----------------------- Page 303----------------------- , >~." '; ,:":',31l) Judge Guinn said that felony trials have taken up rrl"~st {)!~ t::'li? \ t;iC'!12 ...TLlcl.~;~3 Le;'(is t2'tJ:rre"s 011. "r./I:)r2.'~l~~J~Y- ·2\1·2:1.- ing and leaves Friday evening. He is assigned for . six months . After that, another judge will b,e assigned for six months. The cases range from first degreemur-, ~ der through grand larceny, contributing to the delinquency , and this type of thing. ' law and order Tillion asked if it made any difference to the crime rate , ~Then Bethel went Hdrytf. Judge Guinn said sq.e didn't kno~·.J. She said that 97 percent of the crime was rel~ted to alcohol. They haven't- been dry-that long~though. She said it was really nice for awhile with no 'drunks, stumbl--- ing out of the bars, but, it wasp't long before the 'people lderedriddrg canned heat, .alcohol used for-rubbing, . .. 'extracts, shaving lotion" you name it.. She said it 'wasn'tverypleasant for the ~octor.. Orsini asked if the alcohol related crimes involved traffic offenses .. She said tha~ it excluded them~ 9rsini asked ir she noted any difference bet~veen· urban crime and 'bush crime. " f She said'bushcrimewa~ violent in nature. 'Mostly fight- I ing and killing., stealing 2.nd bre2.king up property-- \ violent' type things. She said she worked 'Illith the' cou~t I s'ystem f"or a number 01" years and had yet ·tocome across} . someone ·deliberately planning a burglary··.. They may do it when they are drunk. Even the murders in these areas are not deliberately planned. ,,' ( Chance said she had been talking to a young lailTyer and he seemed to have the impression that out in the rural areas it was alien to the culture or the people to judge each other. She asked the judge ir it was difficult to select a jury. Nora said she had had no problem. They had a grand jury in June. She said they w"ere a very conscientious qroup. They are very honest and they will tell you they cannot sit on the case and tell you why . . She told about one juror ~ho she relt 'would come to the trial drunk. She was mistaken--he took the job so '. .,' seriously that he didn' ~ .. ~C?~~_j:;_h_~~~_",_g~_~Dl<;._~Y,~_11_9D_g-~-':'_Ctng_.~_-- "_"__""0' -,,~,,-,,-,--:---,,-,o_"-"--'----was-rnade---for'e'man---of--ffie- jury. 0 Banfield asked if there were drugs problems in the bush~. Nora said .they had both marijuana and heroin.· Banfield asked if th~s was by the people having problems with' alcohol. Nora said no> but tt is growing; Banfield asked. if it was in the schools and she said it was but that some adults were using it too. Judge Guinn said they had one problem relating to com- munications. Getting baCK word to the comrnunity about the sentence impos~d on an individual--that1s the big- gest problem. When the trial is held in the urban area it takes so long to get the results. 131 ----------------------- Page 304----------------------- Page 3 ~ehe j ~i.d2~-? CO[i~.(;u::::1:·>;d O(l :xr:iform ,:;e~!.t::::~L;irJ.;. 3he diJi~!. f t think this would be ~orkable because JOU are dealing with individual p~rsons. Malone ~sked Nora if she . felt it would be worthwhile to concentrate more on law enforcement as far as alcohol violations go .. Sh~ said she would look more to counseling than law enforce- ·ment. Malone asked if there was much bootlegging ..She said to g~ve her anothe~ two months before .she would be able to answer that properly. la"'i and order· Mr. Hicks said that the Judicial· Council 'is authorized· by the constitution to screen and nominate two people for every judgeship. that is open. He gave the makeup of the co~ncil. Prior to this year they didn't have any staff or budg~t. They received money fo~ this study in 1974. He said he \,\Tas hired and he ha9 an administrative assistant no~. He said they also handled some of the. . administrative affairs for the selection of judges ...The . council agreed that the studiesplanhe~ would not be abstract studies that wo~ld only be pla6ed'on the shelves. We will be working with the agencies and . having fOllo~\!~lp.; .. . . He said he had contacted Larry Parke~> CJIS> to make sure we were not creating more bureaucracy. He felt they had a good working relationship now. He said this ( department has helped him a lot. Mr. Hicks said there were two projects that were relevant to the bills in committee. They have a bail proj ect·and· · a sentencing project. The first thing they want to do on bail is to get the rates of recidivism as compared to the. types of crime they commit the second time. \ve don't have accurate statistics as yet. He said we hear a number of cases. He hasn't seen any hard cold facts· and it may be about 4 1/2%--no one knows for· sure. Most . ,..... of the 4 1/2· commit the same typ·e of crime--maybe .. ~ve . need to know· for sure. ... .__ .____ . . _._--_ .. --_........ -_.. _.._-,- ...-'_.. _•.._- -_.._._---._ .._._ .._-. __ ._----_.-.- ._---_....._. -~.,-----.-......_---- ---..--...------.. --.-.---.--.-- •...--:-..----~-.-.:---.-.-~,.-----.- This ~eporting of material will have been gathered within one month. This information will be sent to thelegis~ lators as soon as possible:. There ~vill also bean evalu- ation of the effectiveness of the ball programs· we have. in Alaska. Mr. Hicks said that~ ~to~his"kno~ledge, a person can be released 'on his own rec6gnizance by paying' bail for himself or he could be released on a large bail- he gets from a bondsmati who will guaranty his return·to trial. This is a release on recognition. This is the Manhattan Bail Project and has been in· operation for. four years. Chance asked what this project was ~nd he said it was students from theU of A. The c6urt ~ystem is administering it. "The U of A is taking over most Df : \ . / the operation. Mr. Snowden said they now. had taken over ',-J all of the program. Chance asked how the students got into this. Mr. Hicks said. they do i.nvestigating into the family, probation, maybe Mr. Adams can tell you 132 ----------------------- Page 305----------------------- ...... - ,_,. II .1.. Cl.tSC: '-t where to get the information. 'He Said that the couit syste~ ~ants to 2valuate ~he pro~ra~. Tillion 82id that the clientele of the priso~s would tell you'some- thing about return rates. Hicks said the crime types would also be known. Tillion ~uggested that there should be cross reference. It is evident this material will not be ready this ye8:L""'. law and order Mr. Hicks said that he had never seen any figures on the rate of recidivism. The court' system will be pro- gramming this so the variables can be obtained. T,illion said the committee had· had some figures given at' the last hearing. 'Recidivism was high for burglary and low for every~hing else. Hicks noted that this tells us th~t we do need some broad legislation dealing with release t . on bail.' He said maybe the judges need a differend kind.~ of bail progr·am. Maybe'~\'le should examine programs .·around the country.' There are a variety of conditional releases ·to 'some actual pretrial advisory- programs.' Some have been success:fuland others h3..ve been ·failures. 1-[e should see what.would be useful for Alaska. We should .see if ~r ide can f t be creative in our endeavor.' Chai.'lce ~1J-a::1tedto· •. I kno~·" if these changes could be ·affected-.administratively. She thought they could no this now. Hicks said he aiso thought they could do it and didn't know' if there was any further legislation necessary_ / Mr. Hicks said that'Connecticut has three or fourdif- \ ferent levels of bail prograss. We won't be able to get to that level "t'lithout i""urther legislation. The judges. can be creative if th~y have the background to know what they are looking for. Mr. Adamss~J.ggested.) .yesterday> that he would need an increase in personnel in Anchorage to deal bette~ with some of the bail problems now. He said he would like to suggest that we also need more programs for these people .. Unless you do this, the bail programs wil1 not 'be as successful as they could be. Chance asked if. he was saying that bail reform could be .. : brought about without legislativeaction!'He said .__ ......... ."-·-··-·-·---·"·-·"-·--·"·~"-"--·-----~--·lhat· i t·"-ls--·i~Ti th:Cii the -ais'cretion 'o-r" 'the--j"ud'ges~" ~.. Mr. Hicks· referr~d to the sentencing project and the hand-out"material that he had had distrib~ted. He said it would give them an idea of what they have in mind. He said thi's "t'Tas a. very complex proj ect. It starts right at the beg~nning--the booking. Takes a look at the investigation to see whether plea bargaining was used because of problems in the original investigation. We will look into the workload in the prosecutors office and the public defenders~ office. They will start ~1th 1973 ~nd take ever~ fe10ny file in Anchorage to see whether.that case was. pled down fr6m one charge to another. They will also check to see if in that plea bargaining there was an accepted sentence agreed to by the Judge. There are about 15 to 20 things that enter into this. This would even include .the judge's aware- ness of the alternatives he has. In some cases they 133 ----------------------- Page 306----------------------- f -may not beaT.~are of the creative \'Tay they can do this ~ I I T~e~e j~s ~~lls'J tIle- ·cor:3idera:c.-.L!.):--i ';':;_~. i~~12 ·li~:'.i··t.?.. ·0i8-:'1s· O:l \ I S2~TC0;nci!'i_g_~ ;l:nis 'dcu.lcl be :;Th?:ce the -f'aeili-cies 1'lere not available. He said irtstead of plea bargaining they were going to take into consideration prosecutor- I -1al discretion. He said Mr. Ad31Y!s had referred to , plea bargaining and sentence bargalning--this is really prosecutorial discretion. He said they had not had sen- tence bargaining for very- many years. Mr. Hicks said we are losing a lot of judicial discretion. ~ The judges- may be rubber -stamping the sentence bargaining sentence. He said they -wanted to have the hard facts on this before any decision was to be made. It will take-a period of- time to get this information. The Judicial Council has not taken any position on the bills. He said therecom-- mendations they would make is that in those areas where there ~s no direct statistical information that the latureshould be cautioned to move slowly. On presentence reports and increased ~anpowerfor Cor- rections will not be harmful. Banfield asked Mr. Hicks if 0e passed the capital punishment bill would the-judges and juries -not find the people guilty. He said he didn't knuw. Malone said that we had been assured by the AG that the prosecutor would gb after these criminals. Banfield disagreed and said they said "they \.lJere reason- able men. H lVIr. Hicks said he had reservations ab.out attorneys evaluating judges --also t~lking about the selection of judges. He said the three lay members are not swayed by the other members on the council. - Orsini- asked if others shouldn't be included in such selections. He suggested law enforcement, corrections, probations people, etc. He felt this might be one way of meeting some of the criticism. Hicks said he was going to a conference next month and would be better able to tell us about judge selection'-then. He wanted committee mem- bers to understand that the 'Council only screened the ,,- candidates for-judgeships and did not make the selection~­ Orsini asked how the Bar Association fit into~he picture. -- '----~--Hi cks - s ai d'they-- appointed -the-' three ---at t Orney memb'ers--'t'o---- - --:' the Council. With the Chief Justice you have four attor- neys. The Bar also conducts a poll on judici~l appli- - cants and at least one council members has gone on record saying he thinks that the criteria should be opposite to ~hat they say. Banfield said that ~ometimes the people the -Bar' says - should be opposed ~hould be opposed. - One of the problems is that w e don't pay judges enough to entice them away from their privatepract~ce. Ch~nce said she went to the U3 PSI crime reports and(197~) pj.Ck-2d out the stat23 -:Hi th tl~2 {-lignest -:r'2cidi vist rates - for common offenses._ She checked into how the judges were selected and of the states considered foUnd that six had appointed judges, 2 _had a combination of appointment and election and 18 have election. ----------------------- Page 307----------------------- Page'6 ·1 ..3/~ There were more serious crimes'llvhere' the judges w'ere ! . e Ie ct ed ~ ~lrhat Sh2 Tlfas s 2.Ji~g is th3.t Ttfher2t h::) st at-:: s rank high on th~ uniform crime report the maj6rity of the states had elected judga~. Mr~ Hicks said the Judicial Co~ncil evaluates all judges 12."i[ and order once a year. This is according to theirby-Ial,..rs .. Ban- field said Mr. Hicks should find out more about what other states are doing in this' regard after· attending the conference. Larry Parker, CJIS, was the next witness to appear before the committee on law and order matters. He'said that each year the CJIS produces and report. It is complete and comprehensive. It informs the legislative branch. and·the executive' brandh as to what exists as far as criminal justice in the' state is concerned. .The report outlines the problems>. needs and tells what· the commission feels' is important. enough to take up next year. It . lists programs and projects they want funded during the. next year.· ·He·said they made broad distribution of these reports.. I l He dpmonstrated how the report would b~-us~ful. ~e asked committee members to turn to the q,nnual.action. '. ·1 portion of the report. On presentence investigations~~he felt we should back that so we could get a lot better job and get better sentences out of~the courts. Banfield aSked if Larry felt his 'agency was a sounding board for the different lags in the criminal justice system. He said he felt . this was true. Banfield asked if Pat Wellington> Nor~ man Gorsuch> and Mr~ Adams ever tried to sit down and figure things out with him. Larry said they didnft ~eallyand made mention of the recent hearing at Big Lake which was very successful. Banfield asked if more such meetings would be held. Mr. Parke~ $aid this one broke the ice--the people who came out of .._.. __ ._____:_______ .___ .__that__ .secret·-·meeting····knevl-that·-·it'1vas'- up --t o--the·-·Com~:..--.·--··-'---·~-----·-··~----··--·---· . mission to supply the funds there were necessary and . do the ground work necessary to bring these groups . together again. Banfield asked how we could include the person responsible for Corrections. Larry said he didn't know. Banfield said that none of the pro- grams would be effective until they had included him. The head of HESS is not close enough to the work to be really ·effective.! Banfield expressed the desire .that;· now and in the' future the he.ad of Corrections be a professional;. and that he would be a part of the governorTs 'commissiol1 on justic and regional law enforcsm~nt agency will meet ~nd dis~ cuss som2 of '-:Jur common p.rc~J .L::;QS related to the rehabili- tation of the offenders. We ~re trying to see what can be done. He said they had also fU:.lded periodic conferences which would seek to coordinate their functions. As -an exampie, sentencing conference. This will be held in Anchorage.. In Dec'ember they ~'iill discuss offenders who have mental problems. There will be judges, prosecutors, and other law enf6rcement people at this meeting. Mr. • '._ .~J ". ~ •• ' 137 ----------------------- Page 310----------------------- ., 3/5 Parker' said they wanted to see 'if theyc0uld find ways to l I g.2i~ ':J:-~tt:::::;~~:)')):~:'dt:i_?:t te-;-;>r2~?~~ ::::h: \..-a,2~~8'.i..? _ 3e:~sent;s . I of the cr2.frllnal J U3"GlC·2 sy.s -c2iJL Larry 32.ld. tn.ese 'Here ! a. series of funded.meetings. We·develop our part and L,;' then the various agencies report back to the COITl.Jnission. law and order Chance said that she sensed a preoccupation with funding rather than· substance of the conferences. IVrr.Gorsuch- saidit is true they talk a lot about the' funding'.' . There has been full and frank information that has come'out of these funded meetings. Mr. Snoit'J"den announced to the committee that today the Supreme Court passed an order modifying criminal· rule 32(c) and now demands a presentece investigation. ,This will be effective July 1 of this year. Mr.' Adams said he didn't have enough people to do this work, so he hoped the Legislature ~vould consider '. his when making appropriations .. Orsini thought the Supreme Court is . very adept at changing their rules. Malone said the "; 6riti~al thirig would be' th~ funding. _Tillion~aid that one' clerk and three people in the field for Co~­ rections would be able to do the job. If we can't get· i .t~at, the rule change won't do any good. .~ ~~ ..l~ f Mr~ ~Walt .Jon~s~from"Probation.and Parole was next to testify.. Banfield felt there were a lot of people who did not understand the role of the progations officers and would like t 0 have Mr. J one s e xp lain hi s ~"lork. Mr. Jones said they didn't handle civil probate matter~ but their basic job is to carryon investigatio~s and do court reports as ordered by the court system. Some of this work relates to the Interstate Compact w~ere they have an;agreement with 50 states to investigate and supervise each others offenders. He said he also su~~rvised parolees and does investigations for the . 'parole -bOard. He conducts 'research and makes recom-' . ._mendations _t.9. ._the___agenc;Les .mentioned regarding .types_:...::_______~ ... -,.- .. -.-.- .....-- ...-_.-_.. - of offenses in terms of--should a man have his parole revoked or should he be allowed to continue under super- V1Slon. 'Should he go to prison or should he remain on the streets? . Should the ma'n be sent to a specific type of facility or entered into a treatment program? Or, what should happen to the man? These are the types of decision we are called upon to make. . . He said he also recelved and applied for program grants. I for experimentation. Trying to develop new ways to handle problems. He said that ~1ght now they were ,q ""1 c r,q CJ; Y1 7 a' m 0 Y! t- h 1 v r. 2. '0""' .::;) 1 O::::l n n -r' 1 f; 0 0 ,q ("' -I- i \ r c::.. S 1 ~ - ~1 i --. i I ~. '-- -~o--'-.Lo ll~ -~J_--'J '--' .:J.~ - '-~~~ .~- --~ '_-JL.-_ 1'-'" '-. up~r· ~s-_on cases throughout the stat,~. This included juveniles and adults. Tillion._asked how many people vlere :.nOTrl ~Jorking to handle this workload. Mr. Jones said there were 38 state funded positions. There is a total of 51 posi- tions. There are 13 federally funded pOSitions. Banfield asked how many of the positions were not filled. He said 138 ----------------------- Page 311----------------------- PagelOI there v-Jere three "unfilled at present. Tillion asked ~.....,:r... .:·.···1. he had some 'concret~ 'suggestions ·as to what we could _'J ! ~/[I"'. J it is much nicer for the officers to have smaller caseloads •. They dotirt krtow if there will be a differenc~' but will know by June 30. TillioD said that recidivism might· relate to the crime and typ~ of persop ~ather~that to thesupervis-ion~ Mr. Jones said it· would still have ......--.. - ..-.-----..-- -----c.--- .-.. ·to do wi th··the---individual--classi:fication-of offender---- ..--....-. c and personality ·type. We have a probation bank on the computer which will classify offenders that only need . minimal supervision as compared to those that should be.seen very frequently to-help keep them· straight. Mr. Jones said that the circumstances under Which the crime Tt-lere committed need to be considered. The case where the individual :lost his head--this~type of person commits more violent types of crimes. He said they had developed a management ~ystem in their surveys. Mr. Jones Sai(l th2Y ?r'2 just ste.::,'--'cing to learn. to classiry offenders. '.i:hey are also pu.tting more people through the system in a shorte~ period of time. 139 ----------------------- Page 312----------------------- 1 eci:iorl. j He asked Mr. Jones' if h~ did the hiring of all of the people who are parole officers. Mr. Jones said th~. corn.luissioner does the hiring, but that he does make recornrnenc1ations to, Mr. Adams and i·Ir. Adams tells the commissioner. 'Adams said they got a list from the DiviSion of Personnel. Mr. Jones mentioned another possible problem--the pipeline. He said they didn't la~'T and order knOl,ITwhat that wo~ld do in causing more vacancies. Tillion asked~f Mr. Jones had any changes he would like to recorrc..rn.end. He said he ~\rould like to ·see manda- tory pre sentencing reports and funding for Corrections sq they can hire three people and one clerk. Banfield asked how he felt about HB 511 which called for the s~rving of 1/3 of the sentence before being elig~bl~ for parole. He said his personal opinion was that he couldn't agre~ with this. This takes discretion away. from. :the 'parole. board tb 'best. decide\V'hen ·a person ~ can be released. ,In his own personal eXgerien~e h~ ~as seen 6£fend~rs that co~ld be released on the ve~y ne~t day and not get into any further trouble. Resaid he had also seen the reverse. chance asked iftne Partner 1 s Program had been successful ... She first asked if this program was under their juris- diction. Mr. Jones said this was one of the experimental program and w~s successful as far as they were concerned. It met six of the seven goals they had set for it; This program did not relieve the prpbation officers of any. or their workload. It, allo~'led the officers to give more ~n~ensive superVision to the offen~ers and help' in their rehabili tation.' \vhen you get a group of stable volunteers it really is beneficial. Mrs. Chance wanted to know if this program ,was still in operation. Mr. Jones explained that the program started with a grant--then; the money ran_ out. There _was a lack of appropriate funding and there was a change of manpower. Chance asked if it had a . '. sigll~_~J.:.~,~Dt.___ ,~_f.fe_,~_t____pn __the revocation__ ,.or__ re cidivisTIL_. rate .____ :..____ ··--·--···---·"-·--·--~---"Mr-·. Jones said he didn't know. He said' that a descriptive study was done. Chance ~sked what the attitude of probation and parole operation with regard to things communities could utilize rather than having state programs. She ~eant community based programs. He said they promoted thi~' type. of thrng. It is usually the policy to ask .the 'community and, pr;i.vate groups to develop resources SQ,'we can cQntr~ct with them. Chance asked if they:had any 'money available to do this now. His answer was No. He 'said there are people who are interested but they lack the consistency to have c.D on-going seneme.. He ~s ,talking._ about conditions st~tewide--~ot local. 'He felt it would be'a'good move to get people involved in running gr 9uP homes~ but even more necessary he felt there should be development ror management ,programs so there would be one administrator. Chance asked if this would be some- thing placed in the planning .council or commission. He said they already were involved in ·this particular aspect. 140 ----------------------- Page 313----------------------- Page 12 J A grant was prepared by the 'Kenai Receiving Home and . they rec2ived a .$12~OGO g~ant to: get started. \ .1 I:Ir. Jones s.aid that the Criminal Justice Planning Agency has enabled his agency and others to try new ways by allowing them to d~velop new programs. They received their maintenance budgets from the state. They also get program money through LEAA funds. He said they law and order wouldn't know as much as they do now without those research projects. The next witness was P~t W21lington~ Public Safety. Chance said it appears what we need is more police .' profes~ionalism. She asked Mr. Wellington to explain the Police Academy in Sitka. Mr. Wellington said that there was a 16~week course for both troopers and pro- ·tection officers with Fish and Game. This was funded by LEAA .. Since there is no other training. ground for municipal police~ they~ too~ go to the academy ~t Sitka. There is also a ~illage school of four weeks' duration and they have· two emergency 6edical classes for police and ~ire department personnel. For ·th~ .bus~ areas they have two on~-week schools in Bethel, Nome, and Fort ·1 ;,Tll1/'"r'\"V"l Ua ct ..... ;,-:J· A-h.-..T7 -t- ......... ""'~ ......... _.-1 _1.-.._,.,L Cf'\ ._-:.... : ... __ ._~ ,~ ... _ L-l_ - --- ..... "'-~ ... '-' ...... 'O ...... ..:.. ...... u" ....... u, vJ.J. ..... .J V..L a-L..i.l:;:;u. c.vVu'v uu .f:JCl.";::'Ul1i::1 ..I...il lJilt:!i::i1::! schools. The'academy is in operation 48. weeks out of the year. Chance asked if there was a national.or inter- national o~ganization·that accr~dits such schools. Pat / said he didn't know of any. He said they had periodic ( academic review and this is the way they develop their \'. curriculum. For city police the curriculum is reviewed~ \ by the Chiefs of. Police once a year. Chance once again asked if there was anything like national standards against which we could measure 'the curriculum and per- ·formance for certification of policemen. Mr.· Wellington said that for Alaska this viill entail 200 hotirs :of train"'- ing~ which will be the. minimum. Chance asked if there ~as anything. that would say what type of information or instruction·would come into that 200 hours of instruc~ tion. He said they didn't have' anything. He f~lt you -··----.. ·.. -·-----·--··,------------would-·.·have--·t·o-pi·ck-. your---s t-a.n:dards- and-then·go··-'t0 -·the . - ---.--"-.-- .--.,-.------ states that have those same standards. He said they brought up an expert to develop their curriculum and give technical assistance. This is difficult because everybody does it differently. He said there were some basic· requirements--so many hours of search -and seizur,e:t. for example .. Chance asked Hhat the academy cost the police force. Pat said ~t only cost their salary.. Chance asked why Anchorage did not use the academy. Pat said it was because they had their own training and it is good~ Malone asked who did the evaluating ·for.the City of Anchorage and for the state. He was ~eferring to the program of instruction. Pat felt that the Police . Standards Council vTill set the standards. If a cit~l wants to exclude themselves) they Hill have to .ShOitT they have a tr~ining p~ograms compara~le to that offered at the academy~ 141 ----------------------- Page 314----------------------- 37 :: . Page 13 Tillion asked f1r. 1~~[el1ir.gt0rr if he ha,'d 2.ny ~orrn'le!..~ts on Pat said that without plea bargaining the system would . crumble. We don't have the prosecutors nor the judges.' He felt personally that the judges ought to become more la\'T and order 'involved in the action and not rubber stanp the attorney's recommendation. It is apparent from talking to the DA 'that the' judge seldom goes higher than the recommendation .. Sometimes they do go lower. This cotild be a problem. Tillionsaid that in earlier testimony the definition of plea bargaining seemed to include reducing penalties between the prosecutor and defense attorney while sentence bargaining"involved the prosecutor going to the judge and ., saying if we make a deal for a conviction will yO~.prom~se not to give a penalty over such and such an amount. . fJIr. lvellington 'said he didn't have any comInent on that. He said we are just stuck with some kind of bargaining : and som.etimes it is not good', He said he didn't knOT;\{ what theansw~r would be. The DArs 'hav2 to deal out -some cases to keep thei~'workload withiri reason. 'He' said he was not' sA.tisfi An w·i.th thp. !3y8tem 2.!!d c1.idn. 't feel he could criticize it either. He had no alterna- tive to give~ Tillion asked, him ItThat he thought about se~ving 1/3 of ~our sentence. Pat said if it was the secon~ offense he would have to go along with the idea. He said he thought everybody deserves a chance or two. Chance returned to certification 07 police. She asked if there was a requirement or certification before a person could be hired as a police offi6er. He said there is a background investigation and they can't have been convicted of a felony and then within one year they : ~ . have the training. This is after th~y have been on the job. She asked if there was any prov~sion for retraining. Pat. said .there ...wasn '·t ..... She said she was . asking about.this _. _._ ....____ ....... . because that was one of the reasons given for reducing charges. The police hadn't had enough knowledge of t~e laws or court decisions. or ,how to put together evidence so as to win the case. So the cases are dismissed a lot of times because of this.~ She asked if there was. enough emphasis on thi~ area. Pat said this is taught by 'Judge Monroe and evidence is handled by them or by the FBI. He said he ,realized they brought in bad cases. There is a la6k of prop~r.supervision. A lot of times' there is just nc case to begin with. He said he didn't think there wer2 very many that had to be reduced bec~use oi.' poor police 'i'Fork. Orsin:;" asked if he ~\jdS talking about the state police or police in general. He said state police. He said they gave the smaller communities.a hand. OrSini asked Pat if he wassatisfi~d~with the level and competence in their inve~tigations (state troopers). He said the ones in his department are ve~y ~xperienced. 142 ----------------------- Page 315----------------------- .. , 3/5' I ['!~,:ll 0 ne 8.3l< e c1 ~'i-~l 3- G (:2 C :.)n 3 i.d~ ~e I: ;: ~12 C2.j G:::''' l:>~-;C b 121"0.3 I facing law ehforcement in Ala3~a. He s~ij it was ·personnel~ 'equipment, and the inability for individuals who are involved in a life of crime to be upt away fo~ awhile. The repeat offender is ~hat he was referring. to. Malone asked ho"t'J import3..!.'1t would the upcoming law and order election on areawide police for the Anchorage area be to law enforcement in·that area. He said it would be very important .. Malone then asked·how he sa~ the role . of the State Police in urban' areas. He said they ~'reren f t intended to be a city type of law ~nforcem~nt. When an area gets like Apchorage, Juneau, and Fairbanks,. he felt ·th~y should assume the~r own policepfotectlon. They would be more responsive to the citizen .. Malone ~sked what type 'of criminal activity might not be receiving . enough attention from the law enforc~ment agen6ies, particular the State Troopers. He said that maybe Tom . could answer that. He runs the criminal investigation center. Pat mentioned the money ·appropriated last year to work on drug~3a HR fAlt t:h2Y T!Jere t8.ckline th2.tproblem pretty well.- That is getting the emphasis. Burglary and petty ririme are .not getting enough attention. Banfi~ld said she wouldntt have brought this up, but on theappropria-. ·tion for drugs. They discussed th~ report. She noted ./ there were 393 arrests for possessi6n of marijuana. She asked if they were concentrating their work on this drug. Pat said they weren't but that the drug was so plentiful~ Banfield asked if we passed the capital punishment legis- lation, did he think that there would be fewer people arrested for murder if it was felt they were guilty. He didn't think it would have any effect on the arrest rate. It might effect the sentence penalty but his people would perform the arrest. Banfield asked if it would make it easier to make arrestsQrl. .the gun for hire' people. Be ~idntt .. think so . . '-'~""~'-~'--.-"'---"'----'.-' ....- ........__ .. --.__.-, -.~- .. - .. -~ .. -.- ..-.~---.- -.------ ---~ _.-. - - --.~.--.~---....-.-.- ..~-.. -- - .. ~.- .., --: -- ..-.--- ..--.. -.-----.~.-..-----~ Chance said she was sorry to go back to the question of' competency of police. She said she had researched infor- mation about dismissed cases. aO of those cases appear to be because of incompetent \-'Tork. Cases such as insuf- ficient eVidence,' defend~~t already in prison or out of the state, dismissed on improper search and seizp.re, or grand jury refused to indict. She said that was why she was wondering about the training and retraining of the police. When 80 out of 152 released because the case ha1nTt been made by the police is an indication there is some need for change. Ba~f~eld ~sked if the prosecutor had anything to do in this. Pat said they probably did. Chance said 79 cases were reduced in charge and out of 152 cases that were dismissed 80 were because of problems in making the case at the ~olice level. Pat said what you would need is a bus carrying the police> DA~ prosecu- tor and the judge I suppose. Snowden said most of these involve city of Anchorage police and there has been a . ----------------------- Page 316----------------------- I great turnover there. Malone 'said this i3 a relevant I p n:L n"C. r/l2.1 on '2:3 E!_i d Ch 20. S';:: ~,[ a.=J b ~::i. ~iS J_ -,t?; () 1j_ t i 3 t ltd-::; I I whether they work for the state or the municipality they should be trained and.equipped for the work. Pat said he agre~d and said they certainly should be I trained. Banfield said that it seemed to ~er--in every other area, parole> prosecuting attorneys, etc., we hire professional people, 'but for police we hire anybody off the street. They take a quick course and then they are law and order con. People need to know how to bea polic~man~ You need to pay them decently to reward them. Only then will 'we have police that we are goini to be. able to have police that He won't having to be making excuses for. Chance' said that really was one of the weak spots. She asked _ Pat for suggestions or recoITLrnendations for improving the professionalism.P~t said the Police Standards. Council ' is working on this. Chance asked if there was anything. ,that the committee could do in the line of , legis lati-on. He said there wasntt now. , :Malorte noted the impact ,of the pipeline .. He asked Pat :if he anticipated losing people from his department to, ,,1, 'work on the pipeline. -He said. there ~'Jou'ld be some but they" ilTould be more ',likely be the ones. \-lJith le'ss than' rive yearsf experience. They would be the nonranking·. members. Banfield asked if he found there was a change in the' attitud~ on the p~rt of th~ people nciw toward the police'. 'Pat said that he had. They have a better image vliththe school kids now. He said they still have a probl~m-in the Anchorage area. Banfield said she hoped they wouldn't go union. Pat said what they really would like is to have a unit of their own. Now they deal directly with the legislature for pay raises or join with the executive department.· Every two years it would be up for review. That's wh~t they want. Tillion ~aid_~his w~s some thing o'we couldd.O. Larry ,said the AG probably wouldn't appreciat ,,_,___ ...__ ,__~____ ,_________ ._____.:t1;1at~___ .,At:__ a meeting with __the chiefs ,of.....police,__ in._c.Anchorage___ ....____' _ ' the thinking brought out more often was that they are tired of training prosecutors and DA's. They hope that- . Mr. Gorsuch will keep them a little longer. It felt that there had been a lot of good dialogue ·today .. _ " , Orsini asked if it ~as the impression of the state that they arrest the .individual and the next day they see him out ~n'the st~eet. Pat said this was true. There ~s deepconcer~about the number of people withthe same'faces fo~"burglaries and wbatev~r el~e is going o~. It does' .ma~~ you wop~er why they ar~nlt put in jail. Tillion said that is what most 'of the peopB are concerned about. This hearing will.be continued tomorrow. Meeting- adjourned at 5:20 p.m .. 144 ----------------------- Page 317----------------------- I . HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE I MINUTES OF TEE· MEETING i I Wednesday, March 6~ 1974 f I. Chairman TillioD called th2meeting to order at 3:05 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present. ~lere Tillion, Banfield., Chance> Orsini, Malone -' and Berry. Colonel Dankworth, of the State Troopers, was the first to tes t~fy o"n. the lal;\J and order ~ills. 'today~ He said he had originally prepared a statement but felt it was too lengthy- It gave the cause of some ·of our crime prohlemsin Alaska. He said he would leave a copy of his remarks with the bhairman. Nr.Dankworth said everyone i.s quite aware that there is a general feeling that the judicial system is not doing' its j ob ~'le 11 enough and ~';2.Ylt s· to kno·"'I 1frhat to do to make it better. ,There is also the. general feeling that "'ie have a misguided coricern for the criminal and n6t enough T'r.,...., f-!,a 1 4")T,;",...,h; ~-! 'Y"'\rp n";.f--i rr""~' fIll.,.-..~ ~ ~:- ,.""....:;;-...-..-,,-...-.....:1 ~.""'" """'~.-. ~.",,- ....,.~- ... ,-,..L v ...... ..,. ..J...u."'.-I.V..J...~.J....L.!.6 v.J...V..L.OU\,....!.!.. .J..':'.l.J...U..LU .vVVC.l..C;~~ J...!1 J..LJ...u uVQ.IJC- ment. He said that the general public tnereis a lack of COlJlITlOn sense approach in applying our lalHs in the' . coftrts. He said he felt they-· were angry and frustrated. They don f t know who to blaf:1e--the police:J DA, corrections:J' or courts and .maybe they even blame the legislature. Some ·would capitalize on this anger and possibly in a panic we could ·find that we are going to rush into some type of legislation that might not get to the root or the prob- lem.· A number of the proposed la~\ls are designed to dis- cipline the court and for a ~ot of this there·isho need. . .. . Mr. Dankworth said that his own personal philosophy was when you take a good look at the problem he realized there . ! ~ . are a gre-atmany people that ~vill not agree on what c.an be done. This is caused by the prolonged indoctrination ---.-------.-- --.- .----------------of-,- a-s 0 cialideology-,that--eve:rybody--seems --to-- ac cept-:---He··-~-:- ~--'---:----' said he meant everybody but him. He said the permissive- ness that has swept our country and nation is only be reflected in our court system. It is a soci~l disease that hist6ry will record as anarchy~ He made reference to a book by Dr. Menninger, _n~vhat : - f Happened to Sin", which touches upon this. We took a very small truth and~we made it into·a bold untruth. That was b~cause we jumped to the conclusion that man does suffer sex f~ustratiorra~d it can be traced back to childhood traum2.s. If t~l2.t is so) then. man can -rlO longer be held responsible for his actions. He said he believed this to be.true and" therefore., have gone too far. ----------------------- Page 318----------------------- I 3/ I Page 2 I Citizens will not be held responsible for the second~ \ th'i~cd)ar',::::. f8urt.h :,,)I'f'e::'.3es _ T~li.3 re::~ch:<3 clo~~in -cOth2 ; f Dome level" too ..Th:2 child i3 Dot asl(ed to 'a.ns;/Jer for i hi~ tran3gressions in the home. We keep rationalizing for these people. ,. This result·s in complete disrespect I . for authority. Then all of a sudden we want to get mean with them. When in fact, we are just plain frustrated. After all this> then we establish rehabilitation programs laV-I and order for them. . He said he would like to see our courts giving stiffer sentences and he hoped they would do'this before· the people got mad enough to do something about it.' As to specific law enforcement problems facing Alaska and some of the things that. need to be done--the biggest contribution to crime is the enadequate.distribution of the police forces .. , This \1aS probably covered in Jamie .Love l s report--thisis an excellent report--i t . gets to' the he~rt of things. . . This is 'apolitic 'as'~to hOi:'J :they' are 'going to resolve, p~oblems. He said theY'ha~e 165 police'~n one:~ide of· the stre2t and 50 on the other. Both handlini about the same num~er of people. Crime is definitely getting I out of hand. As head of the 3LaLe'Troopers he believes • i the ultimate answer is that we have one primary p61ice departmen~ policing the area. With several police departments in the various service centers yo~ will only bring on more problems. This is a critical problem now. He said they have 31 officers for 70,000 people and approximately 5 men on duty at anyone time. He said they needed 20-25 additional men right away in order to get them trained. He ~aid they should level off . ~ithin 40 ~eople. The Director said that is the best they can do in 1974--and that is only if the legislature gives them $1 million to do it. He said there are people in Anchorage that are being escorted to the grocery' stores . . Child moJest'ings and rapes are out,. ,01' .hand. People are' carrying gun's on the seats of autos. He said he could talk about manpower and money as being the answer to ·:··--·-:-·,every·problem'~'''''He '·did' make' thisobservat-ion~'-distribii=-"--····" ....--_.. _..- tionof law enforcement officers--the largest concen- tration of 160 officers in 20 square miles. In that area they have built an elaborate court house 'and it is' in this 20 square miles where the murders are occurring. Prostitution and related things are. centered in this area. On mandatory sentences. Colonel Dankworth said he thought we must recognize the original philo~ophy must be,con- sidered. In his 20 years' experience he has seennu~er­ ous cases ylJnere peop:.L2 ha-ve c022.itted crime that he felt quite comfortable with if they got a sU3pended s~ntence. 6 There were extenuating circumstances involved. He said- he vJould be afraid to recommend mandatory sentences. ne l said he would not take a ifay discretion from the courts; He' said we should correct what is wrong and not legis- late against the judge. The Col. said the ,people were 146 ----------------------- Page 319----------------------- ) Page 3 .i 3/61 I angry about something else:> too .. officers at'e geared too much toth~h:~r!~tt~~~r.1;~ea~~lice ! I not c:;~()US£l to t~lO? ::ca.c:k8ts. '='h'2Y ask ~'Jhy- the38 peopl(:;: it I aren f t ever arrested. ~~Then you look around and see tIle police action> .that is a very logical question. Mr. Dankworth said there were some tools that they didn't have. Take~ for example:> there is a code of ethics in lavl and order the und~rworld which will allow you to catch a prostitute. We are not overly interested in them, we want to go one . step higher. \~ho is behind the whole operation. It is . therefore important that we get an immunity .statute passed.. i -We need this to find out 'about activities of white collar I and organized crime. He-said hehadnft read the governor's . bill. It probably v'lill cover the situation. Then ~ve can bring these .peoplebefore the grand·jury and start getting some or the ones up the ladder . . Colonel Dankworth 'said there would be need of strong con- siderationfor increase in o~r CIBin years to come. . Captain Tom Anderson ~vill tell you about the expansion. needs in. that department.. He said he dicln f tkno~'lof t any better way to spend money right now than in the CIS.· ! It 'is operating throughout the state This is not for ..It· 1 only one departm2nt ~ Tn 1_971 i t fJ2--S r?st-aolished' tobri~g . in experts in the field essential to criminal investiga- '.1 tions. They made them available to the ~olice.departmenis~ They had techniCians., etc.:) these came into the unit. They :fly to the"" area of need. This is a means of upgrading law enforcement throughout the state. There is the Metro Drug Unit and they will work with municipalities. Tom knows more about that. Everybody can get together and work constructively. There are areas in the narcotics report where this would be very beneficial. As far as reCOrimlendations for manpower needs--there'are two esse'ntial needs. Presente-ncB--reports are going to be valuable t6 let the judges··know what is-going on in . t h . d . . d . 1 T' 1''''' C../....· • 1 d- - . . .-....-_.._.._..:. ...__ . e ... ln 1 Vl ua - s- II e ...-- orrec Glons ·-·lsa rea y·a--very-··_·"'- l'~-·- overworked group according to their caseload. I ~ould assume that· they would need some funds to make this work. He:also.nbted that our state attorneys'office is not properly funded. They need more attorneys. He said he would also like t.o see their salaries studies and some consid~ration given to make them more attractive so the:y w?uld be career people. He next commented on the lack of respect against the judicial system. He made oarticular mention of the . . S' t'""\ ' A...!- i Y':"'1 ~ ,....,. h ~ -, ..!,-,1 -!..... 1..-.; ...., ... -.. . .. .. " .. "? ~ .L. i --..! ~ 1 Q C 0 ~J_r-c; G. . vrrL.. G ..... Li~-.:::. 0) ~l_ .:::> aJ..v.. ) t ... .!.L1-.:J J_':'1 LtDJ L.!..0 v _I...:... ao _'; ~ Some of this attitude is generated in the plea bar- gaining arrangement .. He has heard the belief that the court system has collapsed by its own weight. He said he didn't believe this himself. These are people who don't understand the judiCial system. They see a man go in for one particular crime and comes out 147 ----------------------- Page 320----------------------- 3/c with another charge bearing no relation to the original :~tl~.~l:"2;~.~ - Pl~)Et. t)~~:lrs·:-).~l~_:L(lg. ~L3 1l2\~~2ss.3.r~/"·--it i:3 .no~: ":111 oe.d .. It c~n be misused and h2 felt th~t it our 3td~2 we were . misusing it. The judge many times is' turning into a stamp for a deal that is already made. He goes along with the plan fbr the limited sentences that come out. Re felt that maybe the Chief Justice should address him- law and order self to ~olve that problem. He said he was not recom- mending that we do away with plea bargaining. Tillion asked if the Colonel made any difference between plea barga~ning and sentence bargaining. He said he never gave this much thought. He said he felt the most dis- turbing thing was the reductibnof one crime to a lesser one. This" may be corrected with requiring presentence· reports. He said he felt the judges will try to do some- thing about this it they can get all the facts together. Malone asked Mr~ Dankworth about organized crime in Alaska. How ierious is it and is it connected with activities outside of Alaska.? Dankwort.hsaid there ·was some organized crime in Alaska. He sai~th~re f h .... ~ h~en ·cnm.:::.'~-i .p~.!:)-rAnl"eC- .; -" ",;1-,;=lt: ';)':::'001 e +-h i nk" '0[>-·::) ...... .l._~'::> u'-' • 0 JlI'~ '~._!..:L'-"_ '-"c v (J .Lil ~.J"J.~.J ... v .>.'_ v __ .J.. - b;:::'..L.L- J ized crime means. 'Resaid he thought itmea0sMafia .' ." dl-iving a black Cadillac., at ·least trIaL is i'nIaL ·1.L means to.the average citizen. To him it· did not mean that~ He said there are people and organizations that accumulate great wealth off of the victimless crimes. He gave the example of narcotics. They set up fronts--' ( such as legitimate businesses. There has been some of V that in Alaska. There will be more. The Director of the Troopers said they:were' avrare of some of these .. One thing he wanted to caution the legislature one was to legalize vice-type crimes. These people would like to think they can legalize these offenses and do away with the crime. Alcohol is a good example ·of this. You can tax it> say who can sell it> but you cantt control i~. Things that could come under this 't'lould be pornography!). prostitution, drugs> etc·., and just"'passing laws legal- izing such things will not make them go ai/ray. He gave' ····~·· .. the .. ·example "'of what·- happened '''when'' massage'-parlors"'-came"--:--'---' .------.-.-- into Anchorage. This was really a front for prostitu-' tion. The thing about this is that it hurt the really legitimate massage parlor business. When theY started out this way this gave them a type of sanction. Nothing happened then but when they started advertising openly that's when the problems began emerging. They started with neon signs,' went 6n to newspapers and then to cabs. It then became very obvious what they were selling. This made it look as if the "lid w,ere offtl. t'l[ithin a short ~ ~ ~./-- 1 h =I ,. ,. ..... •. perlO~ or Glme we naV2 !-a~ as Dlgn as Ilve murders direc~ly related to that type of thing. L; 148 ----------------------- Page 321----------------------- 3/ f Malone ask~d how this could exist without the cornl"TIunity :..~r 3~3 :j\; i cl:··~~·- I spread prosti~ution and everybody knew about it. Malone asked if that didn't indicate a tolerance by the com- munity. Dankworth said he had heard it said that it should be ·legalized. This is nothing new. Prostitution law and order has been tn Anchorage as long as--it didnft become a problem until ,they started advertising." Girls came to Anchorage from allover. The Anchorage City Police are now carrying on investigati6ns and making numerous arrests. The government isn1tany stronger than the people who run it. He said he didn't think they had been tough enough. "Malone next asked about 1'Jh.ite collar crime ,,' ~\Jhat is it and are the state troopers doing all they .shriuld be doing to reduce this type of crime . Dank\''lorth said No they werenTt doing enough. In all fairness· to your , question~when we set'up the CIB we thought we,cQuld . defitie these types of crimes that called for more exper- tisethan the general officer has been trained to do. Because of the workload, ~e hasn't been able 'to develop that unit. He said they still have some overworked units. i . .' tV-hat he wanted to do, ~J2.S establish a1:l-: internal affairs l u.nIt; within the CIB to do a lot of the internal investi-' .gations for the state--for the different agencies. ':They have problems. They even ask the legislature to fund I I positions for this. There is little,'control in this one , I \ are~. He said he would hope to see this as the investi- gative arm of the state. He said, also~ that many of our municipalities throughout the state have internal": problems.. Who can they get to come in and do the investi- gations? The CIB is the only thing they have. Malone asked if one of the problems would be self-policing. He 'meant as far as the polireagenciesare concerned. , D~nkworth said that within the internal investigations unit' there would be a part that would police the: police' . thetnselves . When' you might have t_o hi:re ·people faster than yoU~66tild coriduct a good background check,. you . would need to investigate. Also.) when .you received _com-~_._.,. 'plaint s-froni'the ,'public ... Tliese have to be investigated.' ~alone 'asked Colonel Dankworth his opinion on,the need for the legislation in the-area of campaign reform. He saLd he didn't have any opinion. He hasnftread this bill. He said he was for some type of reform through necessary legislation--this vras his private opinion as a private 'citizen. Chanbe asked if the Intern~l Affairs Unit would help ..!..... . 1"1..L.. I 1 .-,. .. -. .... . .. r t GO lUS Ul-?2 'G na G t:L1ere are P:-::'OI ess :...onaJ.. peOp..L8 lD, '(;n-~:: police departments throughout the state. 'Sh2 asked if he felt this was as much a need for~prbf~ssionalism in the State Troopers as in t~e municipal departments ~n . the state. He said Yes., 7here is need to increase the calibre and training. He said· the municipal academy is operating in Anchorage. Police Standa~ds Council lila - '../ ----------------------- Page 322----------------------- 3/1 ,Page 6 will doa Ilot in this r~~ard:_ Th~ Direc~or.~ai~ there are some areas of expertlse ~hat ne would ll~e ~~ ~::: ~f·8 (l t" ll.::!~ 1 J_ ~l' 3 8 2 .. ' I-i2 S .:1 ~L d t '~_'l e .re s .~10 Lt 1d. be s· 0 :Tl e p l.a.~ .!~ 0 r the commissioner to plan some ~'Iay for lateral'· hire. \ We need accountants.) people with educational backgrounds~ .'; offer them a little more money. Right now, an attorney or accountant has to start at the bottom rung of the pay scale. In the eTB he hoped they could give some rec:ogni- tiontotheir education and ekperience. Chance askedi.:f the state needed a ful+time profesSional,t' ,parole board. ',Dankworth said Yes,_ If we really want'to get in'and give this more attention.) that would be a \ ,necessity~ He said he knew of cases where not enough ' I atterition was given. He said he felt that sometimes I ,people were let go without enough study. This is his personal opinion. Orsini ask~d Colonel DankllTorth to comment on the level of training of state troopers and other la"" enforcement 'entities ~n the state.' He ~aidhe didn't think we CQuld- ~pendtoo ~~ch moriey in"training. There ia no question, I that the better the training, the bette~ services th~. ,I pqhlic will receive. Bein.g rrlc):::'2 pro.cti-c2t.l.) vii th 17 ~;;eeks of extensive training.) a good backgroun~, this is about all you can expect now. Except' when you get into the specialized fields this is a good basic start. He said /' he ~elt they were short on inservice training. He said I\., most of the inservice training has been done outside. 'They did bring some experts up here on auto thefts and G' drug training. This was a two-weeks' course. Banfield noted that the legislature would be considering the capital punishment bill tomorrow. She asked if he favored this for the heinous crimes. Dankworth was afraid she would ask this. His answer was No. He i~ not in;"favor of this. He said he had a religious con- flict about this.. He said there were a lot of people he v-Iould like to see put away--contract killers.) the . .... -.-.. -..------.--;.~--- killer-in Houston -and---California-;-for - example-;----This '-·-is-·~--:.-----------:-:-­ where theY'just kill indiscriminately~ There is a con- flict with ho~'J' he feels about judgments--he would honestly' be against it. Banfield asked if he thought the state should abandon the treatment programs for thomthat ~re convic~ed. He said there were some crimes that were treatable. He wouldn't want to say we should abandon . Phem .. Tillionasked what he thought about the Langdon Clinic~ Dankworth ~aid it should be however you plan to . dD it. He said he wasnft very impressed with the methods used there. He sa~d he was a strong believer that a lot of these people are addicted to particular things and they aren't going to gain and turn themselves in. Chance said 1 the treatment works if the sentence is long enough~ Banfie d asked if this included thOS2 convicted of burglary and rape 150 ----------------------- Page 323----------------------- . I 3/6 Page 7 . , ' Dankw0rth asked what ki~S of reh~bilit2tion piogr~m i~ (1~~'- C(; tLlcT [i.2- ";/"8 f')or t.:te l'"?3..pist. 1~he only -tliil"1g .t~or~ them is~to be· sent to the psychiatrist. This would have to be the prerequisite before releasing them. Tillion noted that.they do it again after they are released. Banfield said that was her point--in the law and order case of the arsonist. Maybe they kill someone 'while committing the arson;.' Should we do something to keep ·these people out of the cornmunity--protecting the citizen. Dankworth f~lt they should be put in the penitentiary for aNhile. Chance said she meant ·that the treatme~t programs were supposed to be a part of the whole system. . _.. '. The' next Nitness was Tom Anderson with the CIB. He said there are three regions-.,..AnchoraQ;e, Fairbanks, and Juneau. They h~ve ~nv~stigation~ubits. You might have a homocide speciali~t or one who specialized in fraud cases--there wasn't e~ough' specialists .to get . i th~ work done. This was reorganized In 1971. They seoarated this into ten differentdebartments. The J,. ..J... • CIB took the best people from these areas of expertise. I~1Gvs-d them into tlle. eIn. ~';e did lhi;::) .Lor :::;everal reasons". One was the complexity of the more serious crimes. It was impossible to function properly as an investigation unit for all ten departments. This way you could call on the specialists when needed. The smaller departments are not capable of handling certain types of crimes. Anchorage and Fairbanks are different, they are larger~. Most are not capable of ha.:.r'ldling the complex cases. They can either do the best they can, don't do anything, or call in. the CIB. There ar~ also technical things such . as photography, polygraphs, etc. This is basically the. nucleus. The first unit wa~ for major crime. Presently the unit covers homocides and natural death investiga- tions. They would hbpe that rapes and other assaults could be· included in their investigati.ve program~ . The staff for that unit--three people in Anchorage arid one in·Fairbanks·...---. ".- - -... -...-- ....-. -- ..--' ....... -- ..---.-- .. The Fraud is the most understaffed. It would do ·the most good if properly staffed~ ~They have three working in fraud in Anchorage. This embodies credit card violations and white collar type crimes. These crimes deal with the business community. They are complex investigations and' it takes persons who have accounting backgrounds to com- plete these cases. One investigation on three men took six months to complete and there is still follol,Vup to do on this. This ',-.,as the in'':2·3 t i~:2:'sion in Kene.t. Ti:lis is the area of organized cri22--con games and fraud are associationed with 'orgariized crime. We constantly get. requests from communities, pri '\late bUSinessmen., and. there isn't any way can handle all the work. 151 ----------------------- Page 324----------------------- Page 8 . The third unit is the Intelligence Unit. This is the only offensive unit in th2 st2te troopers othe~ than 1 t':hr~ !)\J~bli(;. r ,?:.1:"lti'JD3 c~2pi-~t.~t~·ent~ iI~L1i3 t)..n.i~. c •• trie3 t{) id~htify crime or crininal 2ctivities before they per- form the act. We try to learn locations of known criminals. We try to anticipate what they plan and be prepared. We get information from the local> federal, or state police department. There are two of these in Anchorage and_on~ in Fairbanks. law and order The fourth unit is the Drug Unit. This is the only one that is reasonable staffed and had an opportunity to . operate statewide and that was because of the appropria- tion from· last year. They have t1'.JO men in B'airbanksand six in Anchorage local police ~epartment working with them. The federal drug people al~6 work with them. They have taken a statewide approach to the drug enforcp- ment. ~etro approach in AnchQrage-state troopers and· city police-:-wer~' working·.ln the same area--drugs. \I}"e tried to ~h~~e the information but this didn'twork_. Bas~cally,itturns out to be 2 separated force with e~chsideOd9ing its own· thing. The city felt this was important ~nough-to support Metro~ We formed this drug team. We set it up with three ·people supplied by the state troopers;) three by the city, the city supplied ~supervision and the CIB supplied ofi'''ice .facilities and the buy. money and money'.to hire the under~ cover agents. This was supervised bi the cit~ polic~. This waS housed in the same building ~s the State Drug Supervisor. It has been a real successful effort. Another important thing is that news releases come from only one source. There is no competitiveness of work because there is a common goal. In Fairbanks we had the same thing on a limited scale. It \vas informal--· we set this one up· formally. It was pretty well funded ·1.· - by the state and we supervised it generally. In the '~.I . . smaller communities like Juneau they have undercover : ~ .' officers. They make the cases than in coop~ration with the local department they p.rc:p.~~.~_~.__.g()Q~t_cas.?!_~__~he.y_--_-.-.-.-.-~-,-- ....---.- .. - ········--··--······--·---··-·p·r·e-par·e·the·--·t1rap-··up·s--"t1hile·'the local and the state . troopers make the arrests. The fifthi~ the lab unit. This is part of the auto theft unit~.too. They have a polygraph e~aminer and ,explosive ordnance technician_ There is the finger print ~xpert arid the auto theft inv~stigator. They have various kinds of equipmerit-~finger printing, X-ray, photographic equipTflent, crime scene kits and the· mobile crime lab. ~his:unit can go out to the call say of the Palmer local.· p61tc:;--to2 uni. t moves to t.~'.2..t c.rea· to 2.ssist. They tU.rn I all the materials found l0. 'C':le inv-estj.gation back ~o the . f 152 ----------------------- Page 325----------------------- 3/6 local police. Sometimes they want the investigator> ·"Coo. ':~IB . is becau3~ of th~ shortage of manpower that these have not been more ·fully developed. As an exa17lple} we need a missing per- sons department of some kind. We have a lot of these and no one is working of' these full time. He thought we needed one or two people working· with a statewide . responsibility to report to the state.and local police departments to coordinate the efforts in locating missing law and order people~ He felt· the pipeline would bring about an. increa~e in m~ssing·people. It was also bring an increase in vice, gambling and prostitution. There is no coordinated state· effort in this particular area. When we are a~~Tare of· a. vice problem in a particular area, ~lJeneed this type of unit. With the pipeline we know there will be great· movements from Valdez, Anchorage, Fairbanks--no specific direction.that we are taking addresses ourselves to the problem. Alc~hol is another thin~. Maybe we could . include alcohol with the drug abuse unit. : This is one_ of the big~est social proble~s. There is~~o enforcement·" r· on the person who is doling out alcohol. No inv2stiga~ .~I· tions to try and get at the violator in this area. The ABC board has i_rlvestigatol~s but they~. cu-:e designed for r licensing violations and not for enforcing the lawson f the distribution of alcohol. Orsini asked trom if he had any recommendations on the legislation in front of the cO~llittee. Malone said that in the case of the units in CIB they would have a need for more personnel. He then asked if there ·was going to be funding provided in these· areas. Colonel Dankworth ~nswered this by saying that the regular budget did not have anything in on that but th~ impact budget did. There are three ~ositions funded. There is one for Valdez arid one for Glennallen and one for Fairbanks in the CrB. r·1alone said he had talked with Ron Nendry about arson in-Alaska.. Tom said - that other than in Anchorage and maybe Fairbanks there _. --.- ...-..... '-·are·-no --arson -investigators -available-· in --the-·state·~- -- The---- --- fire ma~shal has the inspector going over plans, btit they don't have any personnel to go into the investiga- tion of arson. Only in a serious case would the CIB b~ c~lled and one of the men in the major enforcement unit would go out. He is a good investigator but is not an arson expert. These things go on uninvestigated.· Malone asked if it would be possible to get some statis- tics on arson. Tom said he was told by the best sou~ces that this state has a high incidence of arson. He said he could get some fig~res. Malone said he would like these within a ~eek· if possible. Tillion said that tSe under~\Jriters show that 1/3 of -che fires are arson. Malone said he thought there was some legislation that would alleviate this situation. They didnTt seem t-o have any legislation on this subject now. Tom said they had passed on some proposed changes. One was on motor vehicle registration. We are ruliong the top three states 153 ----------------------- Page 326----------------------- Page 10 in the nation for such violations. Stolen vehicles are numerous up ~ere because there is no inspection. i '( 1 . crook. There is no checking or followup. We need an overhaul 'on this. Inspection would help a lot. Auto theft is' costing the state a lot of money. This is not just cars, but every equipment, boats, or snow ~achines) to name a fel,v". Malone said testimony had shown that in la'll and order one area of the state one witness thought that as much , as 97% of the crime was alcohol related. This showed a need for the enforcement of the alcohol laws. Do you' think this would reduce the percentage of crime? . He said he didn't know about the significance but.felt it would make a difference. He thought if the bartenders' were arrested that were pouring alcohol down tbes2 drunks' throats it would have to make a difference. Tem noted that Judge Guinn didn r t think there 1JlaS any drop in . crime in Bethel. Tillion said there was an obvious decrease because now they realized how to get the booze~ ,Dankworthsaid he had called the City lvIanager. - There'is· ju~t an,unbelievalbe differehce. 'Thi3'in~lude4 drops 'in contr'ibuting to minors ~ minor consuming:> all of t,hese' have gone down. 1/3 of what they wer~ getting. They hA.d 7-8 a.leohol related de2.ths 2.!ld they---"h2.'T2 h2.d ·8~ly one this year. Felony rates in the same period of time' to the present time \vere 89 for last year -' 84 this year.' To this fact~ you must add that they 'had four more police- men. Malorie asked if it \llaS illegal to import booze into the dry area. Tillion said No not for your own use. It is illegal to have in excess of certain quantities, but there is always bootlegging. Malone asked if they could get thi~ on credit. They are not supposed to .. ,Orsini asked how much of urban crime is alcohol related. Tom said that much of it is. He didn't know the percentage points> but it wouldn't be as high as the judge noted for Bethel. If you said drugs, and alcohol I could say '50-60 'percent but that would include traffic orfenses~ Orsini asked how much was drug related crime. T~m said' it was 70:":'75' p-er cent in Anchorage. He-' didn't think it . , __ ,_.._________..._____ .__________~_would--b e ..-much-,b e low--t hat--in-othe r --are as·.-..--Drs ini---asked -~--.'-" .-..---'----~, if felony type crimes were 70 per cent related to drugs excluding alcohol. Tillion asked how many known add~cts there were. Tom said from 200-500. T~is is the figures. they used for getting the contract for treatment. It wash't v~ry effective. There- are a coupl~ of problem .areas. In the investigation of serious felonies--this is much more domplex and .time consuming that it was a feltl .years·ago~ \I[i thout changes in the criminal rule·s.) - changes in the decisions in the courts, what used to take one month~6w t~kes up to four months .. Some of the ,things you have to consider in fr2_ud investigatio::l are br-ought . ou.t. in. the Ladd ,case en.d Zieger cas~ .. _ The manpo'Her is -' ...--;.... almos't like a drop in a bucket compared to the costs of investigating some of these cases. . ....,-:.. ~ , I"~, . I~ Chance asked Tom if he would approve of prohibiting the 154 ----------------------- Page 327----------------------- ·3/6 issua~ce of liquor lic~nses t6 establishme~ts that have trli:1C. I.LiQuor~Licen.:3eS aT2 i33L~,:~d 2.(~cordiniS to poplLla- tion. He felt that the state should assure us that the neighborhood bar would have sober people coming out onto the streets and they should have their clothes CD. As to the criminal aspect--there are a great many that are prostitutes. He said he would support a·bill like this 100 per cent. laN·and order Chance asked if the handicap in the· fraud unit ·Tivas shortage of manpower. Would there be need for statutory changes~ _ I Tom said they started with good manpower at first. This 1 . was not only intelligent but also qualified people~ But.· 1 they have to have a special type of inv~stigator that needs to have an accounting background. He has to take an inter- est in things. These are very boring cases sometimes.· The fraud statutes ~re old and in the interpretation of our DAts office.they don't cover the spedific problems we have. The Consumer Fraud-Act needs to be changed. He gave an example.. He read from.· the statutes. He shor.'Jed I· t .!..h~L. oh.!-a- Y); r1'-;' ""'()one~! ' -~ ..Cl "p Y'......,uL..:::::>.n·o..~e~ .~ .... rca'"j -r ,<"",1'""\-:- I . o ' 0 ~~~~Ud?~ .~H~h~, la.ws" on":~i~~~:~l ;~~;lY"w~~tt;;~-L~ B~~f~e ld ! . asked 1I th1S nad ever oeen d1scussed with the AU's Orrlce ~. so legislation could be introduced. Malone said.' there was .. a bill in on consumer fraud. Tom said he felt the committe . should be wary of the fact the attorneys and legal. pro-· . fession feel a lot of these should be· handled severely .• There are definite criminal areas so that the investiga- tor can go in and get an indictment and stop these people before they have left. Tillion felt that this bill -.- addressed.itself to that. Tom said that people are so used to being taken it is the accepted thing. - One other area--manpower and legislation. Now we need prosecutors ... They are handi'capped by a lack of people. He said even if they had the peopel on fraud pro~ecutions --they don't even go to the federal attorne~s-~they ar~ : not trained in this area. If you are going to be success- ful··-in 'complicated cases} _·youwould have- to have· attorneys·-- _.._----_. which are trained in these areas. Chance asked more about auto theft, licensing la~\fs and· title laws. Tom told about the experience of a car dealer a few weeks ago. One of his salesmen sold a new car and took the other car on trade-in. It \,las determined at· the time of title change that this was a stolen car. They contacted thep~rson and confronted him with this and he said) TT~\Jell) that's too bad. 1f Chance asked if th-cre Here any prob lems ;:··T~ ~~-:: t ~2 st 2.t'1tes . \,Jould this I. instanCe be considered f'c2.~]J':'? ir'Jhy do THe attac~( proolems like this? . Tom said this 13 a good example. He don't have anything on the books that says this about an ~uto. It is not against the law. The only thing appropriate in this area is that he obtained fraudulent application for title. All you have to do is sign an affidavit for rebuilding your vehicle--there are big gaps in the la:w. 155 ----------------------- Page 328----------------------- .j f Page 12 .---, In:' ,...,,....,:-:> ~.:;: lr.:::c. /J -i +-,""' -i".. .:.... 'r.l· ... • C ~._, .~.~ __ (.~ n ',.J_', <,-1 :,--: ~.: ~ co ~ 1.~ ,;' a-;-T·Q. h ,0.'" n,' 'JL , ... ~l''; ..~ ;:1..... _\. •• _ ..-1. _._ ~'.L V._;:) __ .~_. ,_t ~ ..c:: •..J ...... ..c.~ .L • .,.~ v~c::.~ ap9roved or THould you ha'\;e to w2.it until over the 1deek end. Tom said that is a civil area~-not criminal. Chance asked if there was any way they could have appreh~nded this man. Tom said he didn 7 t know. law and order Malone said Tom had mentioned missing persons. Some of these might be uninvestigated homicides. Is there any, information on this you could give to the cormni t·tee .... Tom said Yes. Banfield asked if there were veri many of these .. Tom asked if she meant did they lnvestigate .. Banfield said we always see these things in the paper. Orsini asked if he could differentiate between juvenile and adult--when he brings in the figures .. . Tom, back to' autos, said there was also licensing for wrecking ~ards~,· There are certain laws requiring·- them to do certain things with the junk vehicles. Thelaws we have. and operate under are unenforceable;·This is . also tr~e with respect to auto inspecti6ns .. Tom said I that Jamie Love has informs.tior: on auto theft in 'his i report. I'JIr< Hickey aSked to cornment on--the incident· .. J being discussed by Chance. It was a good. possibility that that person could have been charged· under.the receiving stolen property offense .. There are technical problem with that statute, though. There isa senate bi1l to cover this. . Orsini said his constituents are not interested'in car ~ theXts but are very ~uch inte~ested in what can be done about rapf:1 and murder .and crimes of violence. Chance asked if there were other specific areas that he came into contact with that we might need to make some cor- rections. Tom said the criminal rules were hurting them. The discovery thing - rule 16 .-:. we 9:r~egiv:tn~g everything totliede·fens·e. There is more perj ury in our courts . since these rules came out. Tillion said he had mentioned this earlier--d~fense has to come forward withtheir_.alibi . .. ··----·---·--·---··--.·-------·---rromaIso·· mentioned Rule' is o~ depositions. . This doesn T t . seem necessary_ He had another s~ggestion--hethings the legislature ·in conjunction with the AGt:'S office should look at the. criminal law on fraud, burglary. tools:> nar- cotics paraphernalia and the motor yehicle thing. Tom, ·in ans\illeririg: Mrs o' Banfield about the emphasis on mari- juar::t"a,. T,.lJhen· we got the appropriation this was to make 'ari attempt to· close the borders--points of ehtrance into the state. One of the areas was Tok. The more serious cases--heroin are big, cases 3.nd the federal governru.ent prosecutes.. Th~ OY1PS on "~'1;;y)-i'ill:-=ln:::l are' +-J1·Y>"1I:.::>,1 ov,-::>y> +-0 /. ~ ., ". ",--,--. .l.~. -- '- .... -. :-;-' -~: ........ '"> U '~~ ,~--~~. .~.- v , I the s~a~e_ These cases, or sns bulk ortnes are ·genera~ed' y at 'the border. Also~ marijuana is getting mor~ plentiful~ I The~e is so much of it--you find i~ in routine patrol arrests. Thirdly, it makes no difference where you go in th:i.s state--.~eward" HOD.er, ~1rangell-~marijuana and heroin are there on the same scale. So when they send' in the undercover people' they go in and make drug 156 ----------------------- Page 329----------------------- ..)1 •..; cases but because of the high incidence of marijuana ~! 0, 1.: ~..:r ~L 11 'f i ~1 d ct "l~ ~~ ::S 1t n ll!r:.:J =- r () f ~'l.r> ~-") ~ s ~ :3 ~.J r t !~ is. '.1' .~) IT: saj_d tha.t in Anc~orage ~h2Y- are con.centrat.Lng on heroin A" and cocaine and it takes time to develop these" heavy ~~ ) cases. Banfield asked how they got three assault charges in amortg these drug cases. Tom said these were things that happened during"the arrests. He said the concen- la~'l and order tration on the borders has given Alaska a reputation on the high1fTay--they say "Don r t come up here on the highway with drugs ff • Tillion said until you start busting the addict you aren't gOing to control drugs. " Malone rtoted that tom6rrow we would be meetihg for con- firmation hearings on Pat W~llington and Norman Gorsuch. Orsini asked Jamie Love if he was go~ng to testify_ " Tilllon said he didn't see anything significantly dif- ferent in Jamie's report than what these people were saying. Jamie said t~at he had made an effort to .co~er " the major areas mentioned ip. the testimony. He. said I COIllil1i ttee members could go t[:rough the report and identify I specific problem ~re~s# "Orsini asked about what" Jamie I had reGommended for eIB. Jamie said he __ had recommended "" .. j j~ new positions with 9 new DAfS. In general~ he has concurr~d with what the major branches of government have testified. Malone said there were some things " different because he had been cross checking the repo~t with what the witness had to say. Tillion said ~ather than having Jamie testify before the committee--1,\Jhen "tIle are going through the bills we might invite comments at that time. Tillion said that one of the biggest things about positions on the state parole board is that no one will ask for more pOSitions. Meeting adjourned at 5:00 p.m. 157 ----------------------- Page 330----------------------- HOUSE JUDICIARY COftlIV1ITTEE I 1 N~NUTES OF TSS M~ETTNG j "7 1:J'~' ..,.{' lJ. ,) - > ( The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tillion at 3:20 \...-J p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments.' Present were Tillion, Malone, Chance~ Beirne,and Berry. Confirma- . This meeting was devoted to confirmation hearings on the tioD fitness of J. Pat Wellington as Commissipne~ of Public Safety and Norman Gorsuch as the Attorney General for the State of Alaska. Both men gave a history of themselves ~nd reIat~d their, financial situation to the committee. Mr.vJellington told the various places h~ had lived in Alaska; where he had been educated; and gave a background of his police work. He said he had never been arrested except he got a speed- ,ing ticket a, year ago. Halone 'ask.3d Mr. Hellington' hO~"I he saH the future. of the State Troopers for Alaska. Mr. Wellington said that he had hoped they could get out of the municipal typethirigs." He said he would like the troopers to become e~pert in ~riminal investigation within the state in order to help some of our communities 't'lnen they hq.veproblems. He also envisioned more enforcement for the rural areas'. ( Ne~t on his list came training--there is never enough of that it seems. He said he thought that in the next few years it would be up to the State Troopers to provide most of this type of training. In summary, he said that the main ,goals would be adequate law enforcement in the rural areas and more trqining. Mr. Gorsuch gave similar type testimony as Mr. Wellington~ • J ..... He told where be was born and \\There --he was educated. He had practices in private la~v concern for, four years ",in__ ~,, __ ~:_',,,,_,_",_ -- Anch'Orage-~'-"-'-He"inaiiily spe'cialized in natural resources law:> administrative law} and commercial law. He also 'did some criminal defense work. Chance said there one thing that al't'lays comes up' about the AGrs department. This refers to the functions he performs and an alleged conflict of interest that can be built into the type of executive system we have. 'You serve as l~gal counsel for the governor and still head'the criminal prosecu- tion aspect.· Chance asked Mr. Gorsuch what his feelings were on this. He said that he didn't think that there was a conflict and believes that they are separate and distinct' things. In criminal prosecution he uses his professional judgment no matter who is involved. The fact that the~AG ( is appointed, in his opinion} has not affected the AG from \: adviSing agencies and the governor--sometimes this is very uncomfortable. Chance asked if he favored separating the two aspects. Administratively--having an assistant AG 158 ----------------------- Page 331----------------------- j " 1317 handle the prosecution. He said Yes. One of the things I he hS.d :)b~3:?~~~.:-e(~ i_s t"hat th(~ JIJ] t,3 "C L~~2 i:3 tal':2rl i__i.!) ~Iith ! the civil side of th~ staters businsss. There is land i withdrawals and the p~peline-~these ~nvolve civil matters~ I I He said that he had asked to have a position to have the ! civil s~ction in one part and the criminal section in :;onfirmation another. This would provide for the person to establish poliuy d~velopment in the criminal justice field. There would be liaison with the police. He felt this was a good idea. He hoped that the legislature would look upon thi~ plan favorably. Chance asked Mr. Gorsuch is he round it difficult to serve as the personal legal counsel for the governor and to also serve the public. He said that from his personal experience he had never been aware of any problems. He said he had " only worked with one governor--that may make some difference. Personally~ he had not found this to be a conflict. Nr. Gorsuch said that the Governor has always bein cooperative., j Chance moved that the committee recom.mend the confirmation , of both Mr. Wellington and Mr. Gorsuch. -~hey were unani~­ mously confirmed and a letter was written to the Speak~r of the House stating our position. The secretary will prepare a letter with places for all members to Sign their names. HB 311 - Licensing of masseurs and massage businesses. HB 31= The Chairman announced that there will be a hearing in Anchorage on Saturday~ March 9, 1974. This ~ill be an official comfflittee hearing and a secretary will accompany the legislators. Beirne said that she objected to the" terms used in this bill "because there are some legitimate massage businesses and this lowers them all into the realm of prostii tution. She didn f t "thinktl?-is5'l?:?right. Tillion said if thi~"-billpassed and-the City took advantage of"it~ then things would change. Meeting adjourned at 4:00 p.m. t \ \ .. 159 ----------------------- Page 332----------------------- I ~/ll ~ :! - ..... HOUSE JUDICLARY CO~IIl';IITTEE I .1 Monday, March 11> 1974 i . \ ......-. Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:15 p.m.' in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Banfield, Tillion, McVeigh, and Malone. There was discussion on a resolution relating ·to I Grand juries grand jurie~ (became HJR 93). In discussing this proposed legislation, Tillion thought that maybe we HJR 9~ shouldnTt remove the case where a person could waive indictment ..' This would allow the Judge to indict without waiting for.the.grand jury. rJIcVeigh said the DA has to file a complaint and the' judge has found trprobable cause" before .they can do this .. ' Banfield said this is one ~'i3.y to 8utdown on ·,time and money.' Tillion asked if ther~ was iny objec- -tion to introducing this resolution and subm~tting it with a signed cOt1mittee report. There i'jas no objection. {ldigent The next subject for discussion was'indig~nt defendants. defendants (Became HB 777) This is to make sure that fellows like Ladd who have thousands in assets and· cash,' pay at least a portion of their legal fees. Tillion didnTt think the Public Defender should have to decide which ones .will pay and "'Thieh won't.; He mentioned Jamie Love T s report showed the importance of this. People, wheri they lie to ajudge can be held in conteiLpt of court or_~ charged with perjury, but when they lie to the Public Defender, you canTt do anything. Malone asked if the members of the comll1ittee had seen copies of the Public Defender's report ..This is one of his recommendations .. The clients may be indigent at the time they need the counseling bllt a fe\\f years later' get some money so the' . __ ._.__ ••_ .. _ .•.• _______ c ..._agency. bills. them at that time._ .This ... is-expensive._to .take on the responsibility of collecting. They usually collect from ,the·poor people and not from the bad ones anyway.(B~rry arrived 3:17) Sno~den said they didn't necessarily want the honor, but felt they were in a better position to d9 it. Banfield moved and asked unani~ous. consent that Judiciary sponsor this bill' and . submit. it with a committee repQrt showing.ttDo Pass lt . recommendations. McVe,igh seconded the motion. The' Oill was signed out. .' D~scussion retUrned to (HJR 93) g~~na Juries. McVeigh JHR93 said this would all but eliminate grand juries. You are giving the DA the discretion--the judg~s 'do not .·file complaints as a matter of practice. .Grand juri~s can be used effectively by the DAts .. This takes the heat off him (the DA). Orsini asked what it would do.' McVeigh said that it permits the DA to file complaints 160 ----------------------- Page 333----------------------- jIll 1 Page. 2 or information wit~ ~he judge directlY and aft2r a ·hearing the person can be held to answer or go to trial for probable cause. Under the present system juries you have to be indicted by a grand jury or waive this step in the proceedings. This leaves the whole ·sys- tern iniact by permitting the DA to file directly and not wai t . for the grand jury. 11alone asked if a person ever has a preliminary hearing and then goes back be£ore the grand jury. McVeigh said that now you have apre-,· liminary hearing to determine ,probable cause in order to hold a person under bond. Another thing--grand juries meet only once:a year. That means you would have to hol~ a person for· 11 months and maybe he wasnfteven guilty~ To obviate that~ they asked for a preliminary hearing. Banfield moved 'and asked 'unanimous consent to introduce this resolution and submit it ~vi th a signed cOITI..."11ittee report itrith a rrDo Pass" recommendation. There -.:vas no objection. This resolution Was signed out. ,f i "Aggravated Aggravated Assault (HG") ~vas the next subject for dis- ., 'i HB792 l\ssaLtlt Cl.lss5_0rl. B2.Ylfield felt thc.t thi8 I:::; mandatopy sent81lc;iug. Tillion said. that Mr. Snowden said we might work at both f ends as long as it is reasonable. The cQurt'isnft going . I' to object to this. Banfield asked what we were repealing.' Randy read 11.15.220. Tillion said that this rewrites the aggravated assault portion. This used to cover just shoving somebody. Randy said that it adds a paragraph too. (Chance and Beirne arrived "at 3:27) Banfield asked if you aren't armed \,vi th a dangerous ~Teapon -' how can you commit aggravated assault. McVeigh said you could do this by kicking somebody. Banfield asked if the penalty was changed~ Berry said it wasn't. Malone said you could assault someone without a dangerous--with your bare hands. This wouldn't be a felony. McVeigh said that this sometimes happens. ,Malone moved to have ,,'Judiciary COIW.l1itt,ee -'introduce -"this bill and ha~eit referred back here. There was no objec- tion. There was further discussion on this matter. Malone noted that there are two sets of penalties in the bill. McVeigh said that was right. Jf it ~ere a lesser offense, then it 11'lould be simple assault. If there .is aggravated assault then it vlould be a .felony. McVeigh noted that the DA has to charge them w1th the section on aggravated assault. If a person at" a corner 'bar hits ,anoth~~ person on the nose t~i3 Nould be simple a.s,sault. T:lc~t j_s c07ered in?-_n()t'::.:==1:~section. of the code. They are getting in the aggr~vated ass~ult and adding the vicious beating type thing. Tillionasked if the little old lady who attached an officer with an umbrella---would that be aggravated assault or would she be charged with a misdemeanor. ----------------------- Page 334----------------------- I .3/7 1 I Page ..3 iI I r·lc\I~;<~;;:~"l ~):::lij r;~4Ls 7;,;'olJld be SlEl·:).L...:?: ?s~-)du.lt. r:::his' la.~'[ ! I l3 8-;-;i.11 on· the ooolCG. i')lalOi1e requested that we ca.ke . I this up again tomorrow. The only question he has is on the two sets of penalties. Orsini also questioned I this. McVeigh said they were permitting' a misdemeanor. McVeigh asked why we didn't strike the misdemeanor part. By definition it is no crime which you do over a year Assault in jail, this is for mi~demeanor.A felony is when you can get over one. year in the trpen". This bill (HB 792) will be introdQced and referred back HB79~ to the Judic.iary Cormnittee .. It1cVeigh felt simple assault Nas already taken, care of under present law. Tillion asked if .the. committee T,Iiould rather have that part removed and vote it out "Do Pass" today. Banfield suggested we delete everything about fines by putting a period after Hmonthsft on Line 16 .. Tillion felt we should leave the fInes in the bill. Randy.suggested saying Hor both".' ~'IcVeigh felt ltle had better set the limits on the fine. Tillion thought it ··~.vas already there. It says Horn on Line -17. Banfield suggested that this be introduced properly without any amendments. Randy will prepared this according to committee amendment. After this is re\1ritten., it will be brought back to the committee and introduced as a JUdicj~ary Cammi ttee bill. k t·;· ....;/ ..... : \ l / . Governorts Commission on Criminal Justice was the next 78j G~mission item for discussion. (HB 778) This relates to the I on Criminal Division of Corrections not being on the board~ but Justice the Commissioner of Health and Soci.al Services is the one designated. Banfield said if we expected the com- mission to be effective she felt that the director of' correct.ions should be on the commission. Tillion noted that quite a few people feel that there should bea ;. . separate di vision of corrections. ~anfield moved and .... __ ...._._ ..-'-____ .._.asked ... unanimous consent that ...the_.Judiciary_.Gommittee----.--,... -..---___ . introduce this bill and' submit it with a committee . report: signed with TtDo Pass" recom..rnendation. There' was no objection. It was noted that this may be con- sidered as a slight by the Commissioner of HESS but that it:was not' meant to be that way .. ~~arole board Profess'ional State Board of Parole. (HB 776) There HB776 was some discussion on this measure. Malone moved and asked unanimous consent that the Judiciary COITl.!'TIittee introduce this bill with the requ~st that it be referred ba.ck to the committee. Ther',:: W3.3 no' obj~ction to this'. .Release on SSHB 511 - Release on Pa~ole. McVeigh ~aid that ~his has parole reference to the judge letting them be released before SSHB , they have served 1/3 of their sentence .. The federal' \ I( , statute provide~ a point blank one third. There is no !,l.",J reference to the judge intervening again. This has been upheld in the U.S. Supreme Court. 162 ----------------------- Page 335----------------------- f ' 13/11 , Page,4 1- , flTc"\jTe:L.g;c} 32.iel .l:..h,~t .HB 5~Ll [lEtS SO~·2 ·'JC:12r prO:Jlem3 ... IJ.r.·j·~~ : ! H35J. J.~ cur present statut83 there is a question as to what , , , ; exactly CQuid happen urider the bill. There is a differ- ence between probation and parole. It is defined in the t2.se on statute as probatio~ is given by the court and they I oarole assign the appropriate agency to administer the sam~. Parole is under the Parol~ Board and the board does the supervision. There is some question about the person who gets a,three~year sentence with two years suspended~ He would then in' effect have a one-year senterice and . would have fo serve four mo~ths. He would go under t~e jurisdiction of the Parole Board for· the balance of the time> or th~ a months> which puts the individual under another system--underprobation which the judge ordered or would they be under the parole board. Or woul~ the, ,person answer to the parole board for the whole three' years. There is a great deal of confusion on things of this nature. Ti11ion sa~d that this is already in the stat~tes.' Chance ,1 said she didn't feel if the person were put O~ proba~ion I ~hat they could come under control of the_parole board~ I !vTc'Veigh felL tllaL we shuulu 0L..L'di.gncen 'l.;[llt> out· to cOil-' ! form HB 511 that would eliminate this confusion. He suggested we follow the guidelines of the federal statutes .. Berry ,said there was one question--there is no definition of "sentence imposed TT • ~Jould this be the full three years or only one year, since two years had been suspended~ Do you take only the part they have to serve? There is a question here. Tillionsaid you would have to specify in the 'statutes whether you meant the full sentence or the full jail sentence. McVeigh said that the admin- ~strators might read the law differently. Chance noted that the parole board has authority when the individual is coming from confinement. The parole board doesn't have any authoritywhert the court orders probation~ Both are under the Divi~ion of Corrections. -_" ___ '._ - _ •• - ,_. __'" __ ••. :_..•._ ••..__ . ___ . __ -... __ .r -.-_. ___ •.••__~ -_.•. ____ . ___ ._ .-._-- --- _ •.------ - - ---.--_ ..--- •• ,.----.•.--_•.•.• .:. -", -- --- .---..•. -.- •• -------~ - •.•... _. "._- ----.- McVeigh wanted an explanation of the laO-day rule. Tillion said if we make this chang~, the laO-day rule '. will be eliminated. McVeigh didntt thin~ i~ would. Tillion agreed that it wouldn'tchange'it, but that we should probably'drop it. If there is a good reason to keep it, then we should keep it; but, if not, we should drop it. If we do this we may be swamping the parole board. ' McVeigh will check into the reasoning behind the lBO-day rul~. ' SSHB-43 Runaway minors. M2lone felt this was ba~ically minors covered in the statutes. He read 47.10.l40(f). SSHB 43 163 ----------------------- Page 336----------------------- 3/11 Page 5 SSHB Cc-~:3=L'r1~_ ,9~sl(8Cl tl(~):v d·;::·t3~il:i~~,g ~··r::~s di·fi"'~~y)e~t from ~.. r}l'):~"~3~,~ ~:[rilli(').n. ~~~lid tlle~~r clid:1 1 -to 1(ee;) c~ r2(!o.l'"'d .for ~1~~ta~L.rti0g· 'but for arrest they did. Chance said the only choice L, the runaway minor is given in whether he is going to runa~'~-3.y ~inors;go to som9 agency or back to his home. McVeigh felt that the 1972 statutes covered this. Chance said it didn't because this makes it arrestable;' Puts them back under juvenile delinquency--or a delinquent act. ~cVeigh felt that present law was adequate . . Malone said this would allow them to pick them up. They can take them back home or turn them over to the department. Orsini asked-about the age. Tillion said this only say~ that they cant arrest them and hold them' . say in the drunk tank. inbreased Banfield asked to c6nsider House Bill No. 562 - Increased HB562 : punishment for punishment for. prior criminal conviction. She asked" . prior convict- f'Ir. McVeigh if there was any .reason that that shouldn tt- ion. be mandatorv. Tilliori did~'t think there anvthing wrong \.;T_~ T:_h '_i t; _ r'T;' 10·...... <::> s .... ~ ...;;j i 1... . <:>pD a!:l y>o~l ~ n m~l~oT.;l ~ 'n'l\ h-,...,~ ''lO· 11 ..... _ ....... _lJ.:...;.~ .:.~'- J... ~_L\...A. __ l" u_ ~ 1._\..____ ~ ...l v......J .1 ;,;"",:;'_'-' J_ ... t:.. LI':"i 'U·~~ -:L':'.L6 the habitual criminal up for mandatory sentence.: Tilliol1 sa.id tllis in.~·a~1t the:y~ [lad to be a fOlJ.l-. tim.e repeater. Malone said that it dealt with whether or not you wanted to salt these people away.· Tillion gave- the 'example of Eben Lewis giving a dope· pusher on the 7th offense a one-year sentence. fiTcVeighnotedthat Hbefore .conviction or while sentence is effective tl did not indi- cate that this was relating to the habitual thing. Chance asked what secs. 40 and 50 referred to. Malone read from the statutes--you must have been convicted three times in this state. There is a list of various crimes on which you "shallff be judged a habitual criminal .. 50 says you will get increased punishment for mqre than one felony. The fourth time he will be adjudged an - habi t.ual criminal. McVeigh asked why') vli th r'egard to _ HB 562, this statute was oh the books. Tillion said that ·this-- is' a- maj.or··piece- ~f legislation~ '-'Keep in "mind,'--it ---'-'-- still takes four convictions. Banfield noted that there was increased punishment for the second> third, and fo~rth. NcVeigh said -these were double the maximum. r.fIalone s'aid_ on felonies if' you had previously been convict~d of one .he gets a minimum or not more than twice the sentence; for t~"0 it is the same; and for three or more he gets 20 years to life. Banfield said that you -should remember - that all. felonies are not murders. There are a lot of felonies that are victimless. Tl}e committee mov:?'G on the H3 563 - Requiring .~ransmission· records of criminal reocrds and data.to the offendertsplace of HB563 imprisonment. There \'1aS discussion about adding n c.opies of" on line 13. This lATould eli.minate the possibility of the originating agency having to give up its original records. Banfield moved for adoption of this amendment. There was no objection. Banfield moved and asked .. 164 ----------------------- Page 337----------------------- --------------------------~-~~~~---:-~~~.~ i:l """"" ,- - :5/ ..1.1. Page 6 crim. records unani801_~S consent that th2 c,J~_:l1ittee' p2.SS thts b~_ll \/~i~: .. t:ll ~l ~fr)() P0.. 3G~r r·I::;~or~~rJ·~D·i:2t~ic,rl a-lo!l.s ~ifitr1 ;:;he.' amendment. There was no objection and the bill was signed out. Presentence HB 566 - Presentencing reports. Malone said that he HB56 reports wa~ not convinced that the Division of Corrections needed four extra people to put out the p~esentence reports. Tillion said that the rule had been changed by the Court system. They said if we' didn't fund.it they would have to change the rule again. Malone said Mr. Adcuns felt they v'.]ould· need four more men to make up the presentence reports. filalone wants to' have some more information on this. Prob .. & parole HB 568-Probation an~ Parole violators. There seems Violators to be a conflict between probation. arid p~role. HB568 McVeigh said that p~obation is now w~th the courts and parole is under the executive branch .. Malone said it would be hard to fulfill sec. 2 unless a parole board is pretty busy all the tin:e. .lilcVeigh thought they ~'Jere connected with conference telephones. -'Banfield asked ;.p t-hO"tT nl'""'\111 rl~' f- ,...,:::\-.r/""'\l.r~ .r'"\1.,";-r'\.Y'n'-"+-"; ,,!:', 1 'T7'" T.T'~'-'''~ +.-·h"_ """',.....~,...,.-,,..... ...:... ~ ..... ..., ...... '--oJ '-J,-"V'_-,-'-A..~J. v . ..I.. '- V VLl..'-- L;. ..... V'-H'~(.J..VJ...V'-l.J...J.....Y ~~J.J.C;J.J. \JJ.J.C ,t.JC.L UVJ..l. has defaulted ..McVeigh said they couldn't. He said you could be out on' parole for a s~rious cri~e and you have to obey all locaf~ state, and federal laws. This me~ris that you may even be guilty of receiving a park- 'ing ticket.· Maybe he would get arrested for DWI. Auto~ matically the board would look at that but it would not be mandatory revocation. McVeigh said that he was argu~ ing against the mandatory business. .firearms in HB 633 - Carryin~ of' firearms in places licensed to HB633 licensed sell intoxicating liquor. Banfield suggested that we tell Mr. Urion that we appreciate his concern but felt that this.is not the best way. Malone said that a per- son is breaking the law if he does this now; concealment HB 7L~9 -- Concealment of merchandise . '--- Malone thoughta··---··~.·· of merchandise person was liable civilly for this. now. Tillion said that was true except this allows the merchant to recover up to $100 even if the item was of small amount. Malone said that this also makes the parent or legal guardian liable up to this amount. Chance asked if you took some- thing of value over $200 would you only have to pay back $100. Tillion asked if we wanted testimony on this. McVeigh suggested that we just put the bill out. Chance' said she felt that every parent atone time in their life had to go b2Ck to the stor~ to ~~ke amends for stolen t ccJ.:1dy. {i:C'(2-Lgh said tnis Cijc';_~d.n ~ t; be ffianc~2_tory. l I"lialo"ne rrc:'ved. and asked l!.nar:lSOU3 consent th~lt HB 749 be I Signed out n Do Pass Tf •. There !'-Ias no obj ection. Genie Chance Signed Tlno rec". 165 ----------------------- Page 338----------------------- 371.1 J 1 Page 7 . ... The next item fo~ consid~rati0~ ~2S H9' 753 - Inte~3~~te' :tdr/:5 ~ i acquisItion of criminal justice infoNrration. Banf!cld state acqui- asked if subsec. 3 was a new section. Chance said that ~ion of crim4t was. Section 3 is directed to the law enforcement ~il justice agencies and prevents thes f:r'orn putting in informatlon ' info. because it doesntt have the safeguards and this requires then to add disposition of cases. Chance said that sec. 3 says that the information into these systems--law ',enforcement agencies shall co~tact those agencies and inform them of the provisions. They would have to have the information purged if they fail to put in the safeguards ., ~elease on bail HJR 66 - Amendment to Alaska Constitution relating to release on bail. Tillion said this appeared to be no . HJR96~ longer necessary in view of the recent superior court decision. Reasonable bail doesn't mean that a person posing a threat to the cO~ilunity is to .be released on bail. The judge can hold them. Malo~e.asked about .the decision--i t ~'las the ~'/Iartin decision. This. Has '. -", c -L a+- -1 ncr .1- 0 k~ i 1 NT (' V.:::. --: j. h c:. 0 -j ('~ +-- n~ T unQ'... e 1'"' +- he' .f' '1 a C" ~,- ~ .L \:" v ...... " 0 v Uc____ • _~J J'--_.,=,~_ ..... :..r..- ..... V __ ·.-J.V' _ v-_ Ii u_~ ...... , I ·Constitution you have the absoltlte right_" to bail,. The '. -.I jUdge can take into consideration the factors and. ,set the bail at a very high rate if he sees fit. Banfield said if that was the case we 1jlJouldn' tneed to pass this ~esolution. Malone said he was not in favor of the constitutional &Tlendment. He felt that the court has within its power now to set a high bail I and the conditions for release. McVeigh said there is " .~ one thing wrong with tha~ reasoning. You may not do, indirectly what you cantt do directly. You can theoret- .ically : ay you will set bail at $200,000. This case will go'right up on appeal if this happens. They will say it is depriving them of the right to bail. ,If this goes to the people and it amends the constitution, that will avoid that problem. Malone noted that we were ·talking about an accused person who has yet to be con-' victed or a crime. McVeigh said the judges see~ to think: "-"--'·'·----'----'·-·---'--'--~---the_y'..:-c'an.. -'s-e--e-'--t;he--b'aiT--'-hi-gh "'enough --to-' deprive-:'that-- ri-ght·:,---.. _·_-- ---------... McVeigh doesn't think this It'lould hold up in court. ' Chance said she thought that the US Constitution had th~ absolute right to bail. Malone didnTt think it did. Tillion said that under the English Bill of Rights it ~Ta.s merely that bail should not be excessive where it i~ proper to gr~nt bail. 'Chance said that bail is for the purpose of assuring the ~ppearance of the person in court. Malone said ,that-bail is.to be allowed under our constitution for Alaska. ,except for capi tal oI"fense.s. ~,re don r't have any capit~l bffenses i~ this state yet, so they canTt refuse bail. 166 ----------------------- Page 339----------------------- Page ~ r·1cileigh felt t~1'2 cou:-c't THOi_lId 2.g;ree \'rit':l ~;Th3.t ~!.lgh H i nr'Y'>Ilrlnr>; nIl' +-h-1 co h-i 11 rTI'hi "",--:,--,.' -,- "'! -1 -, ••' 1-1'1U'1..' ..... ',-' _ -' _ _ _ _ ~ _ - - _ v ~ ........... "'" V' ........ J. b v ...... -'- /oJ /oJ ~ ..l....L • ..L 11_ ..:> ~ i U u..l.. U d..L ..L U VlJ .... emphasis on each part. There is another thing, too. To find a person who is so knowledgeable in both fish and game is verydifficult~ To be effective on the board they would hive to have a wide knowledge of both fields. Banfield noted that on pag~ 13 that reference is made to the removal of the commi~sioner. rillion said that' that was in existing law. Wilson said that the original bill set up seven member b~ards and the CS called for five-man board. He said he doesn't feel strongly about this. ,.) . There is a major part in the bill on the method by w~ich a member of th~ board ,can be removed. This is at the bottom of page 5. The reason for this was that a lot of people felt that if you could get some continuity to the board this would be beneficial. Whenever there is a,change in administration--you have a new board. This is,a controversial 'point. This is an attempt to take it out of, the arena- of a political job. ,(Malone arrived' 3:4.5) ~lr T'll"Is ::-- ..... ·!d .t...ha+- h 'n~~r' -,....C\.--,~.:--~--:: ' ~-r+- f .t...h" r, , • V! on,) ct...:.. u v .1 e .C1. 0, ..L::' ~~ >:-:; ..L \j e U. supp v "- '.., 0 t.... J. S . bill from the ']:,Te:/l IVliner> in 2.;:). ?r:ttcle fron;, the Fairo:.:ulks Advisory Group and Alaska P::-'ofessional Hunters are sup- porting the concept. He has h~dno formal opposition. He said he didn r t kno~'l -Hhat the Commissioner of Fish and Game thought about' this - bill. " Tillion noted one change in requirements fbr aboard 170 ----------------------- Page 343----------------------- I I Page 4 f 3/12 be i~vo:v~d i~ the business. Wils8n said this could be cGnt~~versial- of' Fish ! Game 'Mr~ Specking said that there are those that ad~ocate HB499 separa'til1g out sport fishing from corr.Inercial fishing but it is recognized that you couldnTt do that. You can't manage the fisheries separately. That's why they ~ave'provided for a board of fisheries in this bill~ Fish and game are two ~eparatearenas of endeavor. These could ~ell be managed separately. Mr. Specking-said he did not agree with Terry's amend- ment on the size of the board. He said he was not completely polarized on the concept of the conflict of interest as noted in this bill. This may b~ ditfi- . cult to determine. He shared Mr. Wilson's ~iew that this has been asked for ~rom a large' area which he said he was re.presenting. Specking felt that the board should only post those it~ms +-'n~+- +-;"0.:- -'-'::..,....!.. ';:>0"" rl~ ~ n'l~::::~,..... ........ ""':::l+-h~Y> l..'-;"':;lY1' o">1 c -n.! Vl·~ '10' . a 1 "1 lJ_ C,..LJ Ij!._"__ j ',/ct..:..:.L . ..!.. 1.. ....... ...!.-."J\..IL..!..~.. ~~~....... ..:.1.. ..:... _t.'.!..!.."_J_ L·t.!._... !.._ ~ ...... .t.L....!....i...L~ t... .... _........ ~~ of'the regulations. This j~3t does~'t lend it§elf to good.management. He suggested that perhaps with~asep­ arate board thlt> pI'oblefri c()uld be 2..illeliorated. \filson said on the Hvested interest Tt thi~g he had talked to.Terry arid could see that you want to have someone knowledgeable in' these matters on the board. The fish- ermen wanted that stipulation in there on the Limited Entry' Board so we though it had. some merit. Tillion sajd some guides might object to being screened off the game· o' , board. Chance said if you took somebody who didn1t know anything about fish or game and put them on the 'board then you will have problems. Tillion explained how you could have biases in fishing matters. Seiners .. I look at things differently than gillnetters, and on , down the line. ' . I Chance' as'ked about the language on page 2> line 12 . . - This--says that---each-board- may employ';-~·-.doesn lt the----'"--.---~·-..,----· ~epartment hire the people? The hiring has to be done' . by.those that can budget for the personnel. Wilson said that would .raise a problem. She next asked about the confirmation--appointment-made by the governor sub- ject to confirmation by the legislature. Tillion said this is the same for all confirmations. Terry said it vIas to be submi tted at the next regular session. r,1r. Specking said this was a housekeeping thing and should be qhanged. Banfield asked if the board at this ·time had a budg~t·. The Cc)Elmissi'Jner of Fish and Game approp- riates the·item for board expe~ses. I~ is a part of I... the department budget. They also provide all support- ive help.' Banfield asked the COITll'nissioner how he felt about the board having their O:,'iD employees. He did not. think it would be helpful. This is because of the type of help that the board needs. 171 ----------------------- Page 344----------------------- I 3/l The work is so technical 'and varied that we call ~pon I I d. v.J_.c~~,::~ty rJf p,'?;upl-2 >TLtt.i.;'i th? d2p2.-r't:cnptl~~ ~~O f'¥~2."'Q,Lsr,:' i o~e particular type of assistance. A Single individual would not be able ~o do this. Banfield asked if the commissioner envisioned the board having an exectuive ~~. of Fish director. She said he would hate to see that. This and Game would put a ~iddleman between the board and the depart- ' HB49 menta He felt the closer the contact with the board, the better it would be. Mr. Specking ?aid that he agreed -Y,rith' the$ commissioner. : He didn't see any need to change the budgetary sup~ort ',methods--except that now 'you will have, two boards~ , , , Banfield asked abo~t the board having hearing officers. 'This is on page 7. Specking noted that you are talking. about formal hearings under APA. The commissioner said ' that the only hearings in the past involved charges brought against guides and this was for revocation of their licerise. That function is now in'the new guide 'licensing control board ,in-the Depart0ent o~'Com~erce. '., From time to time ,it may b~ riece$sary for the board to' hold hearing where certain of their actions are attacked I on the basis 'that they change the status quo and deter- mine someone's interest. Before they do that~ they would f : probably have to hold hearings and it may be cumbersome for the Whole board to do so. This may come about by the board closing the season say on king crab in ·a given area and 'the fishermen maintain that the stock would sustain'an additional harvest without harm. Their .. interests are being damaged by the board's action. The season was open but the board chose to alter the status quo and make a change nob in the interest of the public~ To avoid' having a challenge in court and the judge grant- ing an injunction~ it may well be advisable before taking this action to hold a hearing. You would have to make ' certain that' you bring out the facts that the public interest or the resour~es themselves require this action. This has not come up but we have expected it to from._ .._~ ...__ :._,."_ .......,---- "-~-- time·-to' tirile-:---"'There 'might b'e merit in being able to hire a hearing officer. We take care of that for the board 'now. Banfield felt this was alread~ covered under APA. Randy' said this was not necessarily true. The department,would be allowed to use a hearing officer if they needed one. It says they "maytf hire. Banfield said she wanted to make sure that administrative hear~ng officers would be limited to APA proceedings. Randy said this 'would be "as neededff rather than a full time hearing officer. Banfi6ld felt, that an active board may need ~dditional legal counsel. Chance felt that the Depart8ent of Law could hire addi- tional counsel to have them available for the board~ I ~ ",L/ Tillion said they do, this and then keep them for their own cases. Chance said,she didn't mean that. She meant for specialized cases they have the power to contract 172 I ----------------------- Page 345----------------------- ? Page 0 f ,,3/12 legal services. Specking said he didnft, think 'we should I allo\'! the boa::,d to retain legal cGL:nsel. TheAGf.3 office i h&s t~~t role. cte sRid he 3a~ S02~ ~eal prqblem3 ~~~n i 'T-q 'I 9~ ,Id.c; ~T ' • .:; you leave that in. of Fish .j Game Commissioner Brooks said' he·:r.'lould like to point out that ' there are advantages and economies in our present system beyond those that would be realized in the proposed legii~ lation. We now have a 12-member board. By being large ' it brings knowledge and representation from many parts of Alaska. This is what the people have been asking to have--~ider representation. You cannot eipect a tive-member board to represent all of the areas of the people concerned that a 12-member board would. With only five on the ~oard he felt this would leave huge 2.!.'-:..:;a.3 'uncovered. The pres~nt b6ard holds two meetings' a year--some~lmes there is an additional meetin~in between. At the Spring meeting they take t.p critical fisheries matters and the fall meeting particular cOTIllllercial and' sports fishing matte~s ,and important game matters. 173 ----------------------- Page 346----------------------- ..' ""!'I-Ccr'i"'b;'i'e~il-------~----~-__~----:----~-~---------r 3/- An additional board would also ha~e to have two meet- ings a year. He said that he had heard criticism on the board for only opening certain sections of the regulations-- l .:ls. of Fish these generally are the important sections. The t ncl.r!':lme' ~egulations of the board are the only ones known ~f_ \...,.1,...) ..... that are thrown open to the public for complete change and, revision each year. This 'das 'getting to be a game with the public so we had to limit the sections opened to change. There are hundreds of proposals pres~nted. i The board found themselves bO .1ing to, the strong aspir- ations of the public and ended changing the regulations back and forth. Our intention was to only open the sec- tions that deserved the boa~dts attention. ,This is not an efficient way and doesn't work for good resourcS management. Then there is the vested interest subject. Commissioner Brooks said he didn't know how long it_would take a lay~ man with :noexpertise in fisheries to ,absorb enough lnfor- matien so that hecould,mad~ an intellig~nt decision - based O!l the various options among the competing interests involved. He 'felt that it was essential that the buard me~bers have a good knowledge of the resources that they are responsible for managing. Just as long as the indi- vidual doesn't use his position on·the board to_his own personal advantage~ there should be no objection to them ( being afisherman~ guide, or whatever. He said as far as he knew this has never happened, where_ an'individual_. used his position to his own advantage. The commissioner said he could see no advantage in dividing the boards. He f~lt there would be lesser representation on the board and it would be more expen- sive. There 1ov-ould be the same number of meetings as the single board--two a year for each--and each of the meetings requires the attendance of staff members. There is also a gr~at deal of preparation for these meetings. Tillion. said _there-wouldn' t have--'to,-be:-any----'-----~-'--~ --6Vet'lap .. --TI1:i<- 'Brooks said they usually scheduled the meetings to take care of one type of thing first so a person 'interested in game matters wouldn't have to sit through the whole meeting. He said their advisory com- mittees are working quite vJell. There are some problems in remote areas. This is where you have a native regional , corporation or a village council and they prefer to speak out on these things. They vievl the advisory comnli ttee as a separate entity rather than an advisory committee of the board and this has made it difficult in certain areas to .3_cti-rJat~: the -;::.(l\r~sory c-J£I":.l.ttees. S91itting the bO::t;:-I~l" is not 'gciirig ·to have much effect on ho~ the advisory COffi- Bittees function. Malone asked how people got appointed to the Advisory comm. Brooki said they are elected. 174 ----------------------- Page 347----------------------- Page 8 Mr. Wilson·s~id that in his area they ~ere elected.' 3/1\ Mr. Br00ks said th~t the d2p~rtGent. staff g~~ a g~o~p of p~ople togeth2~ and thsy agree to set an-advisory council. The Department of Fish and Game . approves the individual. They nominate and elect any replace- .'s. of Fish ment when' a member drops out. The committee is a self- aDd Game perpetuating thing. - . HB4S Banfield asked Mr. Nelson what his oplnlon was on this bill. He said that h~ could represent the Sportsmen Council'since they had met in Fairbanks in October. They represent sportsmen from Ketchikan, Juneau~ Haines'~ Anchorage, Fairbanks and Homer. They don't pass a lot of resolutions when they meet--only those that they all pretty much agree on--they presented a resolution to the governor and the legislature to form a 'game board of no. more than 5 members .. This is fo~ the specific purpose of the management of game~ The people in the Interior felt that the board has been pro-commercial fisheries and the amount of time spent on that out"l;veighsthat spent ongat'TI2.. He sa.id ~'I~et-her this l,vas ti.~Ue of not 11'i2..S immaterial) bu.t perso!:.ally he thought this. T,\lould be an improv~ment. He felt that if you had a board of . fisheries ano a board of game that 2ach~\iould deve.top· its own finesse in their own particular .fields. He said this was a terrific job because it involves so many fie~ds. He said that even five states of the United States didn't have the problems we have. He felt this would be an c. improvement> therefore he ~Jas for a fi ve-man board. Mr. Nelson felt that one of the biggest problems with the board was that they never had legal help. When they did get it it would be on the spur of the moment and they were at the mercy of the AG. We have attempted- to get legislation for this. Mr. Nelson felt that the department should have full-time legal help. Technically he would work under the direction of the AG but he should be stat~oned with the administration of the· department. This has been a bad weakness. Legal help _ ...__ .___ just was.not accessible when needed: .- .. - . -.----....--.- Mr. Nelson said he iv-auld like to comment on a 7-man board. tllhat is likely to happen--he preferred 5--the more special interests you could-have. If you started out with five next year someone will come along and want to increase it. Tillion suggested leaving five on game and expanding the fishing board. Specking suggested leaving the existing board as the board of fisheries and establish a separate board of game. _This might meet the problem . . Terry mentioned that there ~a c bill that was in Resources and wo~ld go·to Finance that would assign a full-time attorney to Fish and Game. Tillion noted that High~'fays has their own lawyer. Chance said they are listed in the Department of Law. They have been designating certain assistant AGrs to be legal counsel for the department. Tillion said Highways attorney wasn't here in Juneau. 175 ----------------------- Page 348----------------------- " I Page 9 Ch2~ce 3aid you,would still ~ave,tQ budget for th2~ t 3/12 throu.gh C:L~ Dc~p:lrtment:; ui' LaA. (>Jr~missioneI"'Brook0'·' 'said the Department of F&G has an attorney assigned w. of Fish to them now and he is in Anchorage. He is or very little value to the Commissioner or the Board. He and Game does handle F&G cases in court--to that extent he ~s serving in our department. His winning of cases is HB499 rather dismal. The AGts ofrice has' the responsibility for representing the department in litigation. We don't want that responsibility residing in an attorney working t 'fdi th the department and the board. ~,re need legal advice l and assistance in interpreting federal laws~ telling us what we carido and what we canTt do on a daily' basis in I order to avoid get~ing in~o litigation. Mr.~rooks said that perhaps the greatest criticism of the present mariner of promulgating regulations is that you donTt get enough grass-roots input. The advisory committees don't do enough~-board membersdonTt get a~ound ~nough to satisfy the people and maybe that is I -,'. why you arerequ2stihg thi~ change. 'He s~idhe failed to see how be reducing a 12-~an board to_a 5-man board t, I ~'rc could expect tv incrsa3e the input to the public. I ·In his experience in watching the board members, the commercial· fishermen 'members on the board have been able'to make. good decisions on game. It isnft all that specialized. The men just have to have the right atti- tude. He said he felt this legislation was unnecessary_ f He said he agreed with Mr. Nelson, that there are short- ~! ~omings. Mr. t'lilson said that he disagreed with the commissioner' on representation. Representation will decrease for commercial fishing, but the Interior primarily has not been given equal representation or even close to it. The Commissioner stated some areas of representation: . , Dillingham, Chivak, Kobuk, Kenai Peninsula. (Banfield 1e'ft"at 4: 55) --_.._-_ .._------- .. --- ..-..._-.....---'--_._----.-.._--- - ..-. --_.- .._---.--_ ..._--_._-_._--- - "-_ .._- - -.--- ...- --. ---.~.~- -- -...--_ .. ---_.- --.-.- -.- ----_.. ----._------.---------...- ~- ----._._--;--. Chance said we obviously had a difference of opinion and there was also a language problem on Page 12, line 28. Til1ion suggested changing it like present statutes. She asked about the advantages and disadvantages of a 7~man,board. Terry said that was like asking why the b6ard we have now went rrom 10 to 12. Chance said this 'would off'er,less representation--twoboards would have 14 members. Terry, said we didn't have any problem with representation with our present board. He felt, this w~s ,the wrong philosophy_ She said the type of ,... , 1 ~ b ' -'.' 'd 1 4-'.., ., • L L. Ilsnery wau.Q e e~lmlna~er OJ preven~lng ves~eQ ln~ereSL. 1'illion' said that Elost on the board right nOi;lj ~lJould com- ' ply. Terry s~id he had a few qualms about sayirig that a commercial fisherman couldnrt be on the board. 176 ----------------------- Page 349----------------------- I Page 10 I· 3/12 Specking said that he agreed" with Chance on the 7-man 90tl:r)cl. C:i~(l.(l:~,:; a3k~~:(1 :.. 1~3.·~ ?:.2 30U_r)(;f:~:l thougllt ?tbc)"u.t trlJ~t; .. I 1 , They came out with a CS. Terry said this really w~sn!t.,. I a decision rrle.de by the co:':u-nittee that iSlrihy they passed i ... of Fish thi~ out with th~'original hill. Specking said we had I . . Game a good vehicle here and there haVe been some things that B49 are needed to clean it up. You will also need to decide F ,9 on a 5-man or 7-man board. Specking felt that in order to meet the needs of the people he'represents they would need a 7-man board . . Commissioner Brooks said he didn't think there was a very extreme change in the attitude of the Alaskans in the last two years. You focused attention on dis- . i tributing the authority to the advisory boards in order t6 give the authority back to the people. From that "extreme then you say you are going to dispense with the 12-member board do.."n to a 5-member "board. . . The present board has increa,sed a little bit 9..nd. has I served Alaska for the pa~~ 15 years. Not everyone has I been happy. There haVe b2en:people with ideas of i changing this one way or the othe~. H~_~ouldntt see I that ~'!h3.t ';Ie. o.re doitlg add:r:esses any IJenbifiaole problem. He said th2t the board" needs more money so the board members can visit the advisory committees and talk to them. They also need to attend meetings outside \.vi th other commissioners.' There are also i , \ international association meetings that would be beneficial. He said they were in session six weeks of the year. He told about the meetings from the .fall of 1972 to the fall of 1973. Being selective about the portion of the regulations we are opening up is vastly speeding up the processes in dealing with the regs .' Meeting adjourned at 5:10 p.m. ..------~-.-------....-.. -~ - . ------_.- ._-.,---"---.-- ..-.._--_._-- (-,' / 177 ! ----------------------- Page 350----------------------- ,3/13 J Page 2 iii Tf::fcl~_~r.) ·t~_r.:-;~(1f;: r·Ialo0.e s·:lid 'tl19 (J{!..f2~=L;7 T:)~Li::e ?~Qctice.3 ilct !,\rClf:) ~Lrl E-IB 5·43- p~~~tice~ Or~ini said he wanted ~0 he2~ fro~ cur consu~er protection, person on this. Chance said she had been called last week urging the 'passage or this act and specifically this portion. Tillion said this was drafted because'thei weren't sure the the whole act would pass. Stan Howitt has alsb asked for this. Chance moved'to introduce ,this ·.bill w1tha committee report having a rrDo Pass" recom- mendation. This was agreed upon. rJIcVeigh asked to have the secretary,get in to~ch with the AG and get a little ,note f~om his office explaining this. Ask how this got on the books in the first place.' This will create a lot of questions on the Floor. release on SSHB 511 - Randy is \\forking on a CS for this bill" parole (Release on parole) Malone asked,McVeigh to explain SSHB differences between probation an~ parole.' He said there' 511 was some confusion on this becaus~ if a judge sentences a person this is probation. How the lBO-day rUle cones, in he didn't know. This is probably administrative. Everybody would be eligible ~~C~ th2Y were placed in ,I confinement. If you took this 180 rule away you would t 'have a proliferation of people ~aGting, to appear before the parole board so they could get out. He said this was also the f~deralmethod ir you sentence anybody under IBo days you would normally expect to serve the / whole period. Randy said that Mr. Adams had also said , , that there were also work furloughs and work releases within this lBO-day period. There were also other provisions but no prob~tion. McVeigh said that as a matter of practice those who get over 180' days serve that' much anyway. The parole board doesnft m~et that often. There doesn't seem to be any injustice in this . system. McVeigh suggested if we were to' deal with that problem that vIe do it in another bill. 1Ylr. Adams said they would deal tvi th it adElinistratively. McVeigh thought tIle should delete the provision that the prisoner be brought back before the sentencing '"'judge .. ---~-­ This would be a constitutional problem., The ,added language says that he may not be released on parol~ and the period or confinement to which he has 'been Sen-' tenced--l/3 must be served. The judges have been able to sentence a person for a period or time and suspend, a portion of it. Chance said that now the judge can 'state in the sentence that the person may b~ eligible for parole in less than 1/3 of the time but not, more thanl/3 ,of the sentence. ,McVeigh said that lHas current law. We are'designating that they hav~ to serve a minimu~ term before eligible for parole. In 9re~ent law the ter6 may be less tti2n but 'not be more tha~. We are reversing this. We are saying at least 1/3 ~f the sentence must be served before eligible for parole. Orsini asked if this would have any effect. McVeigh said the general public normall~ assum~that the 179 ----------------------- Page 351----------------------- HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE .. 3/1 MINUTES OF· THE MEETING Wedn~sd~y, March -13, 1974 Chairman Tillion Galled the meeting to order at 3:05 . p.m. in -Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present u {IJere ChanGe> Orsini.) Tillion, ['Ic'Teigh, Halone and Berry. acupuncture HB-760 - Practice. of acupuncture. Malone moved and HB76 asked unanimous consent that this bill oe signed out ""ith a "Do Passu recommendation.· Dr. Fritz T;'Iill carry this bill on the Floor. Randy noted that f/lrs'. Banfield had wanted to amend this bill to include dentists. Orsini moved to adopt Banfieldf.s amendment. Therewas no objection. It was so ordered. (Banfieldarrived 3:10) Chance said that there had been discussion or chiropractors using acupuncture, also. Malone amended his motion to include Banfield's amendment. All signed "Do PassH as amended. . aggravated The next item ~or discussion was aggravated ~ssault ass2~ult (HB ·792.). ' Tillion said this was drafted leaving out .} Tin 7 ~' ..... I no . ~.f:::" ! the misdemeanor p~rt at ,the bottom. Banfield wanted : ./ ~ to know if acid- would be considered a dangerous weapon. I McVeigh thought it would. This was okayed by the com- mittee. unfair trade Tillion said we had another bill drafted. This'was on ( practices unfair trade practices. (HB 791) This related to HB791 \ release of information on unfair trade practices. At <.'., •• t~e present time the laws so state· that the AG can release the fact that a criminal act has taken place but he can't say where. Chance said they cantt give their evidence to anyone-~they can only say there has been a crime. Orsini thought this could be abused by someone exaggerating a case and having it brought into court and it just wasn't a good case. Malone said this was where the AG knows a crime has been committed but he can't turn over the evidence to theDA. Tilli6n_ . said you had to pay for hours of doing_this investiga-._._~::_.,.. tibn-o~er a~~i~; ·McVel~h wou16 like to hear from the AG on this. Malone said there was a bill pending from the governor that vlould take care of this. This is a separate attempt to deal with the worst problem .. Tillion said this was drafted when Gorsuch testified that i,r we 'didn 1 t ·pass· ·the ·wholebill·on unf"air trade practices this would allow th~m to at le~st' do this part of it. ' Chance 'asked if he recommended. Tillion said he wanted the,':whole Unfair Trade Practices AC!t.. McVeigh asked if the~e was any explanation as to why this is on the books this ltJ2.Y· 'l:J_Llion said he t~"1:)L~ght it had some--:-" thing to do with confidentiality of information--bqping to work it like IRS. "McVeigh said normally laws_l~ke this exist where as a result of one thing you get infor- mation you canTt automatically get this ~nformation for another use. 178 ----------------------- Page 352----------------------- "I .Page 3 Release on .j·!)_(_1.~::2 in 3el1teQcin·.~i; tl12S:~ r),~(~)le .is aJ_3o ttl::: ~;.g.3.~t 13/13 th~t rele~3e3them wh2n th2j haventt even serv2d one day~- Then you have the parole board not eve~ receiving any information from the" judge so .they let him go. Inpresentencing reports the judge will know and the prisoner and the parole board will know that once an SSHB individual is to be confined that he ~'lill have to serve 1/3 of the sentence. This may influence the judge in 511 his sentencing. This is significant when you consider homocides. They get 15-20 years or maybe life. You are saying they might get as much as IS years before they are eligible ~or parole. Federal life sentences are 45 yeaJ:'s.. McVeigh ~elt this 45-yearprovision should'· be put in the bill as part of the definitions. Randy will add this.' Banfield moved and asked unanimous con- sent to sign CSHB 511 out.Th~re was no"objection; All present. signed rtDo Pass II • '. platting HB 445 - Platting powers of municipalities. Mr;G~ry Thurl rrr 1 . h .L' t·.p, .Ll· Obi 11 r:o.l.'l" Jl-_7oV'l., no+-(~\~l .. · H84L~5 ~nur owe was ~ere ~o ~es. l~y on GD1S __ • _ ~L v_ 'that lands for industrial use has been deleted. r~r. Thurlo\\j2 sa.id the AlaskA. ~/1unicipal" be2.gu'e endorsed' this as did the borough attorney for Anchorage Borough. He said he was spea~ing as an individual~ This bill is almost word for word from the California statute. A copy ,of the Park Dedication Act was given to "all ~em­ bers of the committee. A copy ~lJill be filed. He gave his own personal o~ working in this area and in this field. He ~"ia$ in favor of this legislation. He told how Cali~ornia developed their law. In this bill the subdivider has to give up the rights to a portion o~ his land but this does not include industrial. It was· felt that the subdivider created the demand for this space by generating the need for children to play--indust-ry wouldn f t do this. The sub- divider generates the need so he should bear the burden.: ....._. __ .__ ..._. --.For.-one-:acre.-.lot s-_there ...~IJ.ould .be..no .. req uirement.___ ~or_...park._..:.:....__ space but for townhouses or condominiums there was. He said in most of the subdivisions that the architects planned for open space--it is bad business not to. No one ~ould want to live in a subdivision of 50-100 homes if there were no open spaces available. This ~~w would allow local government to adopt their own park dedication require~ertts. In Anchorage and Fair- banks where they ha~e la~ge subdivisions they should adopt such ordinances. In the smaller areas it might ~ot be nBcessary. Thi~ way. you can leave_it up to local government. Orsini asked if the local governments .' ~'r2rs unable to implement· such ordinances nO~'I 'llithout this legislation. Mr. Thurlowe said they might be .able to but they 'might not want:to take the risk. 180' ----------------------- Page 353----------------------- j .··.1 3/13 Page 4 I (l'~lr~/ fe~Lt· t~kl·~.t i£' .~/o~.1. r[1.a~(e c~J~G'2-~")cj_al il{)1'd~r3 or""' com.rnercial land make dedic2.~io:ls of par'k land--- the relationship between industrial ~arks and, children ,',1 , • brought into the community is indirect. He said that iC 'Glng in this state' you might be able to make commercial and HB44- industrial developers make_payments in liew of taxes. If you'do that you are moving into an unknown area. McVeigh said he could understand about the residential areas' but iryou apply the same theory and bring.in . money instead'of people--you have an industry than can afford more ~nan some small developer who h~s to dedi~ cate land and·the_cost;· coul¢1. be passed :on, to a bro·ader. base. McVeigh said it was his feeling that when you talk about park dedication~ green belts~ or open spac~ this becomes not only available to· the immediateresi- dents but to; the public ~t large. Industry should share. their· fair burden because they. create the climate for people to move into the cOIT~unity. . That is why McVeigh would not want to exclude them. t Gary did not 'want to'~ncluie industrial bica~s~ this lHas \'lritten up to be a very DarrO:1 bill. He T:o]Jl about. .1 the lots that had been set aside in Islands Homes Sub- division in Fairbanks. The ai110unt was three or .four city size lo~s. Tillion said there was objection to developing a swale with a creek--you could find you have a nuisance due to the hippy: commune. Gary said that in California they favor 'public ownership. They create a home- owners' association to be responsible for this land. Gary said they hadn't had any problems with hippies there. Banfield told about one in Juneau out by the airport--cars drive up and unload their kids and drive off. This is private property--what will be able to do wlth it when it is public property. Gary said he didn't know of any way of limiting access to the dedi- cated land. ____ Tf. you say. it is .open space.and cannot-be.....-.- ...... - .._, ...._. used then yo~ can limit access. Malone said that he disagr~ed about not including the industrial developers. Industry has an impact on ~he need for recreational facilities in the area. You might but the requirement in HB 445 saying that they pay some fee in liew of dedication. He said it would also be beneficial to see that there was a buffer zone· between industrial and residential areas--green belt or open space> He did feel that \.'Tithout this la~\J they CQuld do ~ 16t of the things the bill contemplates. Tillion said there was legislation and it has gone to the courts w~e~e if you take in excess of ~hat the individual can recoup by the subdividing then you wlll have the make up the difference. 181 ----------------------- Page 354----------------------- Page 5 f~;~l~~\'" S?~~.~~ 112 (jC)L;~lCl I':~).-I~\·- -r'2f~.Si.~ to ~lj_~) Ca.l~!~;Jrni.a :'~~-(Y"cr~- _--L '::". :-'1_,. C", P • ..~.' n n"'" +- a 10 0 :-:; -~ 1 n" - t ? n n n r':\" d"'J~) 1 ' .-j ..,.,,--. ur-\ 1- ~~ ~ ~ ~. ;.._;'0,~ _ _... _ .J.. L· -",.J 0 V t.. l..r¥ ~. '-; ......... ....., 'oJ -fJ L- "-,.J ::".J '- ....... \... ~ __t... 1.. ...1... J. _ b t:..:. v. .::. J._ developer often times has to. post that much for sewer (8.:+- t- 1" n 0- fees, bonds, etc. This is a very minor part of the ~ v v --0 cost in starting a subdivision. pO~'JerS HB4L; Malone asked if under California operations they had in lieu ot land payments. Gary said they did only where the~e is no suitable land within the subdivision. Gary said nothing would happen in this state until the local governments passed ordinances. The people would have input into their decision. 'Chance said' that what this law called for was for the loc~l municipality--if they do pass an ordinance--to include definite standards for determining the prop-ortion of the parks. One area wouldn't necessarily pass the same type thing as another area. Tillion said the only thing he sa~T that might be . a. problem ~'Tas the fello~\T 'Hi t.h a 30-40. parcel subdi vision that ~as asked for in ~ieu payment that might be -in excess ofwh~t he could pay at the ti~e. It ~hQuldn't . be more than what he gets in on a lot - s.a.le . Ti lli'on gave the exampl~ of water nOOk-Ups that bankrupted an individual. We would want to avoid that. McVeigh noted that in section 2 when you sent in a 'plat and had it filed., you only partially-subdivided., you would want to make sure if there are some blanks that this is not considered open space. Will the undesig- nated blank spots be determined to be open space? He' w~nted this made plain. Gary said it would only ~nclude the areas that are certified. McVeigh would like to amend sec. 2 to make sure that the areas were' deSignated as undeveloped blank areas. You show water> alleys, thorough~ares, utilities., etc., and he wants to show these undeveloped spaces,. too. The'parks would also show on the plat. He gave the example. of Anchorage where there is a blank. spot on the plat sathe public ..________ ·~ants to ha~e~this opened up to the public--there is a law suit on this. Nat Valley Homes are sueing ASHA~ .. McVeigh feels these spots should be ma.rked nas o\\}"ned rt and not left bland. on the plats. Gary said the most .e~tfeme way would be to ~ake the requirement on the in .lieu payment fees so that they are proportionate as td how the lots are sold. Tillion thought that was a good idea. Banfield asked"if there was anything in the bIll that would insure that once the land is turned over to the . municipality that they will develop and maintain the park.' Malone said this was a v~lid point. He said he has advised subdividers who wanted to develop .that if they d6n't do this it would lower the value of their property. He said that people set up light housekeeping on the prop~rty someti~es. It might be good t6 stick 182 ----------------------- Page 355----------------------- , 3/13 Page 6 I i 1:' ·~.1 P () ~c~t ~i 0 '~1 .~~:~ :.~. S ~yT t: l"i ,;.:]. t ~2CCel)t; t;.(lGS2 land3 unless thahoperate ~ parks serv C'2 • Platting 'owers Gary felt this could be put under (2) saying "adequate HB445 provision r.'1ust be made for its maintenance and use rr • Tillion said this 1vouid be an improvement. fllcVeigh asked if the subdi viders vested the land in the ho~eowners' ass6ciation. McVeigh asked if we couldn't restrict the use td the homeowners adjacent t~ th~ open s.pace. He' vranted to make clear·that THe could avoid problems like Banfield mentioned. ·For instance, YQu have 10 homes in an area--the playgroundshould be available for the people living in,those 10 homes~ , Banfield said the person '"\''lho has the subdivision has' the responsibility toward those brought iri by the hous- ing and no~ you say you have to serve the.entire com- muni ty ~vi th these open spaces. They may instead make in lieu payments. Malone 3ugg.2sted you make the parks . private instead of' public. ~andy said you would get I • L ' • 1 . .L' •• , . • , • +-' . d . l' ln00 ~rouo e WlG~ ~ne 30u3lng aU~norl~y an· pUG lC parks. If you keep if private land ~\rithout some other I kind of provision that .land 1.s still going tobe .private land and subj ect to' taxation. Tillion said the T.,ray he did that was to deed a wider strip of land for road purposes. Malone said this would be private -ownership in ~o@non. He said he has helped subdividers'set up under the housing authority and they don't like to do this. McVeigh wants this area limited for the use of . t~e subdivision homeowners only. We need to make it clear that there will be some policing of that area.' Kids aren't rtecessarily the problem. It is just the public at large. Since we have had a large number of' ca~pers and trailers the problem has grown out of all. proportion in some areas. Malone did not think the purpose' of this bill was to close parks to kids. He felt the idea of provid~ng . so~e type'of limit~d'~~blic use-is d~ff~~~nt from wh~t we are talking about. This provides a mechanism whereby some of the costs of acquisition can be offset by the local government taking ca~e of this in the.planning process. There is nothing to prevent setting up a corporation to have a private park. He ,said he objected to putting in a limitation on the dedication section. He thought this might be better handled in another section. ;r.il-' on said ;:'Je shc)t:.lc1 'Ao~k OL:,-::; SOG2C{:lr:g on per~ent2_ge and something where yo~ couldn't pass 2~ ordinanc~ . unless you have the maintenance authority to take care of these parks. The borough cantt make youdedi~" cate it and then build an instant slum into your sub- division. Chancie asked if Parks and Recreation couldntt designate the use of the park. They can say ~t cannot be used for camping" picn"icking" etc. Gary said they 183 ----------------------- Page 356----------------------- ----------------------------~~~~~~-I Page 7 I ! could also S2j t~2t the ar~~ could not ~~ ~nter~d. I l ~T.i~ 7/ f()1.A.l(1 orll.y~ ~J'~ f()r \l~~eI-ji~:!.s. Ol:'3j.. ~·li said thELC t,\iculd· . . c, C) >; 2 Y'S be hard to enforce. Malone agreed that enforcement and management are the hard part. It probably wouldnTt be such a problem in the less dev~loped areas. Randy said we also needed to show on the dedication all the unused areas. There was also discussion of a payment schedule. Malone said he would hate to see that written into the statute. The owner might d~dicate land in lieu of fees. There should be written in something to give . the land owner an option. He might be able to _grant . other land other than in the subdivision or in lieu of fees. Gary vlanted to knotl if this land would be useabl~. for park purposes. Malone said not necessarily._" It could be more useful for the municipality and they could sell it and then-p~ocure other land for park purposes. _Randy said that the borough does something like this now. They will trade land around among developers. Randy will dra~'l up a GS for the comIai ttee._ rJtalone .... request~d that Lines 17-20 be writte~ to i~clude i corn_tI1ei"'cial and industrial 3!~bdivisi.ons. : .'Ti"'.2 amou.nt and" - .. -,'I· location of land dedication should bear___ cl reasonable rela.tiollshiv L,o Lhe ut>e of the land orihe need ror· recreational use of the land for future ,inhabitants. Malone also thought that it was reasbnable to put some~ thing in the bill about the management of parks. /- {,.. _ Revolving HB 363 ~ 'Revolving loan fund/~AJater and sewer. Gary 3 '0an fund for said that in the smaller communities~ like Glennallen~ 'Uer/seT,'ler . they may have a sudden need for sewer extentions. They really don'.thave the resources to issue bonds.' They really need a bill like this. Malone said that right now there is a problem with inpoundment of-fed- eral funds. The committee ~'Tas considering Resources CS 'on this bill. Chance said the idea originated with people in theAnchoragearea--those on planning and zoning. This was when Max Brei;'Ter' s regs c'ameout on the-, 40 ~ 000 squarefEjet lot size.. They suggest~~ t~~_~____ .~ ___'-- ',_~_, - -------------------.--·_--------approach-:----- In- --de Iib erati-cjris-- '-they'--di s-C-overe d -t he-'runds -- . were placed in the wrong department. ,eRA said it shoUld go in the other department. They would like to- work wit~ the other department on establishing procedures. The Resources CS has been endorsed by the engineering and planning department of the borough. It has also heen endorsed' by a group of state1i'lide land platters. Planning Associatiori of Alaska has adopted a resolution endorsing this bill.~ This allows for all the planning' ,needed to be ,- completed and not hold up the start of -the job so the local governreent c~uld borrow the money needed I t6 extend water and sewer lines and to insure'that health I· provisions are adequate--this could,~e assessed back'to 'the individual lots or use the federal funds when they are available to pay the loan back. Only those houses u or pro~ert~es inv6lved would be responsible to the local community'. The local community remains responsible to the state. 184 • ----------------------- Page 357----------------------- 1 j . -l..) : ! 3/ -) .Page 8· Banfield moved CSHB .j63:)1}t \ l Cor:!...:l.i t tel? CS ~ ! i I ~ oena HB 500 - Relating to subpoena powers of the legislature. RBSOD pO~'JeI"s of There 'was suggested 8.Inendment for page I!) line 17. After legislature 'special add "when authorized to do so by the Senate or House or bothlt. McVeigh said one'of the reasons for this bill was to' compel 1'litnesses to appear during the interim of the l~gislature. Under the old law we had under limited conditions the ability to do this. bn one or tV'Jooccasions during the interim cOIYLrni ttee meet- ings it was unable to 'get some of the witnesses •. That was because we weren't able to get the cbncurrence of ihe body. This bill gives the power to the committee .. 'Chance thought we could'do this by changing the joint- rules. In there it says it is done with the concurrence of the body, so that if the body agrees in advance that this can be done by the ,:;o:-~~i ttees--couldn r t this be I don~ through a rules change? I l'_.tralon~ "'_'lotpd t-h""..t l" t S.!ii.o Sl.J_'b_;p('_,.Cl_~"_.q__ · ::lnrl nnt-' Qllhnt\cY'\!:l~ .. '." , .~andY'-- though this could be handl~d b;;--gi;in~~~thi~"";~thorit~~ . to the committee at' the time it is being i'ormed. It could be made to the chairman. A committee formed during the interi~ wouldn't be able to do this though. Tillion said this in effect gives up the power of both the House. and Senate to look over the act~on of the subpoenas. . The other committee amendment would put it back in the' House. Malone said he was in favor of the bill. Malone noted that this takes a majority vote of the membership of the comIni ttee. He felt that the subpoena po~ver we have i$ so cumbersome that no one uses it. If you think ,the committees should have this power} then you need this. bill. If you don't want them to have it> then leave it to the courts. Berry said._.if ...you \\Tantedto· compel- the attendance' of the :, ..... - witnesses you would have to have a joint committee meet- ingbetween the council and the committee. McVeigh said it is more important' for the people to know you have this power than it i~ to ~se it. This way yo~ cari get infor- mation from them. Banfield moved' HB SOD out of committee with a rtDo Pass" recolTI.tllendation with SA amendments. H All present signed I1Do Pass • Meeting adjourned at 5:05 p.m. 185 ----------------------- Page 358----------------------- HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:07 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments.' Present were Tillion} Orsini} McVeigh, Malone~ Banfield; and Berry. extortion The subject under discussion was th~ crime of extortion. HB794 (HB 794) Chance asked about (7) on page 1. . Tillion 'said that Havelock had that put in. He also read the letter that accompanied the bil1--prepared by Joel Bennett~ Banfield questioned (3) which mentioned exposing a secret. Malone noted (5) referring to boycott. The chairmatidistributed material support- ing this bill. McVeigh said this was one .of th~ more prevalent crimes in a boom economy. They will try and sell prote9tion to the businessman. . V ·llalone wanted to go through the oillchecking .2.11 the statutes ..McVeigh asked for a copy o~ the penal code.: T,.....lo"'\o"\·~..-... T_.,.'r~ ~~"'~7"''';...:J_r:J 4"" __ """""",..,. .-Cl ___ l_~:"'· .... __ -- . . ··Ua.HLLC .LJVVC }-I.l.VV.J...ucu a. \J.Ui:!:! .l.V.L' .L.l.J....:J u"uc. Orsini asked if you couldn't be guilty of extortion without involving property. Malone agreed with this. Randy felt that polit~cal kidnapping should 'come under c that. Malone said if you limited this to only include property--this is t60 narrow. What i~ you force some- one to do something against his own will by means of a threat or something like that. You might have to , pay money or perform some act--wouldntt this be extortion. Tillion'said this originated with Havelock and that Joel. ,had worked it over. This is taken from the·California code. Havelock recommended a la~v on this .. Malone felt that the way the bill was written the person -'-'----'--"-..-':---.. -..---':--~---'would '-'have-.. ·t·o"---obtain--the-'property--fi'rst--before·-any----crime'-~-~ woul¢l.have been committed. Simply making the threat is ' not a crime. What about ~evealing confidential inf~rma-·· tion or a secret--that isn't robbery~ but you could be ' threatened on ~hat point. McVeigh said "this is only half of the extortion law. This is theft by extortion'as.opposed to pure extortion~ Malone asked what pure extortion was. McVeigh said when you get money. Property could also be part of.it. Tillion said the fourth item was when you put heat on a,~ I ,public official to make him do what you want. They would either take or withhold action--for example, a member of the zoning department. Malone said he didn't want -any~ thing like that in the statutes. Randy said that the second part of (4) was vague. Banfield said that a 186 ----------------------- Page 359----------------------- , I I f ! ~:\ 3/14 ,.~ Page 2 I " I. _~) t)\] S 2·:; :J t; :L.t1 i~ 2t~ t 0 ~~:-t~:; f~~/ Eli::?; ~~ t iTla~;=8 a c';:}c~.rgt~ 0 yJ :;,.f i t I'.CiO 1d l i a char,6'::;' Tilliorl .said th2.t ~he I~irGt pa.rt prot8cts . .... xtortion a politici~n and the second portion makes the politician HB794 ,:I liable. Tillion asked if there were any sections the corn...rnittee wished to delete or did they tvish to add. more. He asked if the committee wanted to submit and work it over when it comes back to the committee. Tillion felt that it should be referred back to committee. If you want to remove anything though it should be done nO~\T. before we submit it. Malone asked for an explanation of '(5). Randy said it would cover some labor groups. McVeigh said this was a crackdown of an official of a union. Tillion asked McVeigh to explain (7). He said hedidntt know what that was for. O~sini suggested that· it was the catch. all. Randy said he could see a situa- tion where· say you have a dispute between two property' owners. Whether it is a tree infringing on the other personts land or whatever, if he threatens to cut the tree down as a result of some other a~gument~~not be~ause I' the tree is shedding leaves in yard~ etc.--then it would I be extortion. If there is additional reason beyond I' . extortion then he ~~Jouldn' t be covered,,· -NcVei~h said . there could be a'threat of economic harm--buying things at a cut rate. It was difficult to tell 'who would bene- . fit or if they would benefit as a result of the action taken. It is difficult why the other person would make the threat when there is no advantage for the person himself ... Randy said that 1-6 are examples of how this' would b¢ rlone and apparently 7 was a catch-all as Joe mentioned. Banfield suggested that Randy consult with the AG's 'office and find out what they had in mind. Randy felt that we should add additional language to reflect any other harm other than property or services. McVeigh said in (a) it is questionable--it _~~ems that another may do these illegal acts and he would be covered. If you ._... _____ .._._. ________ . ___do.__ it yourself_ then you are _not. _ Randy.._said. there_ 1ivere.____ _ twti things here--one is being in the action by threatening to do something himself and by suggesting that another do it.· McVeigh didn't think it said that. Orsini asked if we currently cover someone who makes a threat against another. McVeigh said that is simple assault. This is not a .felony. Malone thought that sec. (b) could be rewritten to cover that. Tillion didn't think we needed to rewrite now. McVeigh asked to have Randy take it up with the AG. Malone moved and asked unanimous cons~nt th~t the com2itteesubmit this bill on extortion as a Judiciary Committee b~ll 2~j ~Sk3 to have to referred back to the C08I::.ltt::;2. 'l'C:2::~2 ~'!as no ,objection. alien owner-HB 335 - Alien ownership of land. Randy said that his ~hip of opinion was --that the last word that the Supreme Cou~t ~an~ put out was that it was legal--he felt it will soon go the other way. At the present time you are not going, against the Supreme Court decision. Tillion said that 187 ----------------------- Page 360----------------------- t 3/14 Page -3 he would like to see this bill put out. The court will I p~-:-":):'J:;.b ly .~'t:lc 2.~~:::.in:.:3t ~:lLl.::; ,L--... t::,~ -e;~;_ttl.r"2.> ::>:).t f\)-;:, ~1l)';r f i l~ will still hold. If there are enough states against of' land it the Federal Government will institute this action. 5 . . . 'McVeigh said that the supreme court canTt enact anything that is against the Constitution of the United States. Randy said there are two decisions that the supreme court has taken; One is equal protection and the other is that it.is an area preempted .by federal law. Particu- .larly ~s this tru~ ~hen thi~ g~ts into th~ rights of alien~ once tney are admlt~ed to tne US. :Througn the power of . treaty they can say what the alien can do. Tillion said I this covered a legally entered alien. This bill doesn't . take that right away. It takes it away King Fasel's . rights to buy all the ranch land. Montana has already acted on a statute like this. The bill before us deals' with nonresident aliens. . . '. Chance asked if Randy had' found a definition for pon- I resident· ~lien. He said that Washington, Oregon, .1 and California use the term !'aliensnot eligible .for citizenship". They got into trouble with the Japanese. t Chance noted that Orientals were not allowed to have 'citizenship during the war. They wer~ deriied citizen- ship ~ Tillion said when we did "that in federal.laT,If we didn't co~er the childreh. Chance. wanted to have i a g60d definition of resident alien and if we don't \ find one then one should be put in. Chance gave ·the example of HIshy". He has lived here for a number of years and he doesn't make an attempt to become a US .citizen and he "doesn't want to go back to Japar. to live .. She doesn't think that we should prevent him from buying his own home. McVeigh said 'this is a federal qu~stion. No matt'er 'what we do it \ITon't hold up unless it agrees with federal laws. He felt i,'Ie 'Nere in a totally federal field. . Orsini asked "'That happens ~'li th the Arab .. ,that comes over .>:,=-.' here and becomes a citizen. Tillion said you c6uldn f t stop them. Ors~ni asked if real estate included,the buildings. Tillion said Yes because th~s is allowed under treaty. Randy suggested that we amend the bill on lines 16 and 17. Add "except as provided by federal law or treaty" just to make it clear. Then you could say we are only trying to cover that which we are allowed to cover. Orsini said that he was concerned whether or not there were buildings included or are we only talking only about lands. Tillion said that we had oreviously talked about grand- f~ther rights; This woul~ be on any land owned as of the effective date of this bill. Only apply this to "u all lands obtained after this date. Orsini asked if there ~ere some lands that we ri6uldn't prevent aliens from pwning. Randy~~aid the treaty with 188 ----------------------- Page 361----------------------- 3/14 Page 4 Japan allows them to own land for purposes of trade ..::~ ~:_. i._ e '(~' ') ~;'Tn(~ r -?,i--l c1. .(~C' ~r~':"t·2 I'"' '2 e Eln cI t ~1. ~~ r ~~ i .J 2r1 .~~~ ~~::; e p t i ()i.~ t 0 01/1 t1 1 C:}~!-: (1 ~~'.~~_p (j ~ 1·3.:1d fiJI) nat:llr'~ctl reSOi..,;~~'ces.. f;~:3.lone noted trl,qt "tllis ""jEtS !~~DJ3··- tiu..) :.; covered on page 2 of the memo. California laws pro- hibit owning land for agricultural purposes. They . did this bj statute. Orsini asked which countries we had treaties that allowed aliens to own land. Randy said you would have to go through and check country by country_ Orsini asked about the Arabs. Tillion said there was n6 treaty with them. Orsini asked why we should con- sider letting the English~ Turks, etc.~ to own this ~and. Tillion read the Nebraska statute. It prohibits it and even includes widows and heirs ofa~ien~. They· may hold· land for periods of ten years but not longe~. If the lands haven't been sold in that time it. escheats· . to the state. We aren't asking for that in this bill. Montana didn't· take action and the Arabs have a large amount of land there. At this time the Japanese2.::ren't i~terested in agricultural lands but the Arabs. are.' Ors:i.ni said he wanted to get it straight on the buildings I·. ~'Jhetl:"ler or not they vvould be in(;luueu ~1J~[len you say . real estate. This bill says real estate and he thinks this includes buildings. ( Treaties supersede state la~is so we would have to look· \. at the country ~nd what the treaty provides. For the Japanese they are granted complete rights to own real property and property ~or bus~ness purposes. rr not speci~ically covered in the treaty then the st(=l.te can have the say. .Chance asked i,~;hy Canada could pass a law that says you can't sell land to US citizens. Malone said that was according to the terms of the treaty. McVeigh didn't think things had to be reciprocal. Tillion didn't think the federal government would fight lavTs like! this. Orsini said this bill is saying that you can't O~Tn' any real estate ~lJhatsoever unless allowed specifically -,---c..-·_-,··_-- by-federal,tre-aty·~ --·He ··1s ·not- sure -that· he-wants-- t·o·-go-·-:-·_- .. -. that far. Tillion noted there would be a grandfather clause. We aiso talked about increasing the l~ase time to·25 years. Orsini said this would be all right if yo~ were just talking abo.ut 1a.'1d -' but what about the buildings. ·Malone said it wo~ld be hard to separate them because it 1~ all part of the real estate~ Orsini said we could . say they can't hold land. Tillion said he wouldntthave any objection to that. Chance said the buildi~gs beco22 a part of the land and I Nhen the land is leased a:-~d th'2 lease is. up., you can I renew·your lease. If not, the land plus the buildings revert back to the state. Tillion thought this was reasonable along with the other suggested changes. ----------------------- Page 362----------------------- I 3/1J.j Page 5 I R.~~::1·:~i_J not.=::d ~hTt: t;~1'2 (le~i:;.L~i'J~::3" l)/'i,je:;:-' f'ecL:::2:ll .lJ.~J-.­ ~ j th2 ~2~m they use is :r12~r/I.t·\~11y ad;Titts,=~;' .for pel"r;la:lt::nt alien residence. He suggested you might want to use that VDersh1p of term instead of n6nresident alien. Malo~e felt-that land that would tend to defea.t the purpose of the bill. I HB335 Banfield asked what this would do to the Canadian girls who marry American boys. Orsini thought they would be citizens.' Banfield said they maintain their Canadian citizenship most o! the time. They register each year \vith the US government. (Beirne arrived 4:20)_ Malone said since Orsini ,was concerned a~out buildings on the land that v.Je could make that ,a part or the lease. - Define it in the lease.- If you want you can say they can take the improvements off the land at the end of the lease. Orsini wanted this bill written just t~ cover the land. Chance thinks they should be able-to seel the buildings to someone else~ If it became automatically attached to the land they wouldn't be able-to do that. Or::3inl moves that this-biil pertain only to the prohibition of o~nership of land. The~ewas no objection. Chance moved to change the lease time to 25 yt2al-s. J.lle::L'e Wd;:) no oOJec'Glon:> so ordered.- - Jilalone moved to include a grandfather clause in-the hill. The~e' was_ no objection" so orciered. Chance \'Tould like to include requirements that the state advertise quite ( freely in order to register these people .. Randy will draft a CS and bring it back before the committee. Meeting adjourned at 4:30 p.m. ~ ---p' - '--'-"--.-~••• --•. -.- --- - ---~--.,:,-,------ ~-.'-----' --.-~.' -- .-•.:::.-:~ ...... -.- .-~--••.--- -- ~--, l ) '-..J 190 ----------------------- Page 363----------------------- i I 3/10 HOUSE JUDICIARY COfifl'VIITTEE rI[I!\TlTTE3 (J? ~~E r:1E~Tll\T8 i I ~;Io:ldaJ-, :>L2-:-,,:;h-13;J 1974 ! i Vice-Chairman Banfield called the meeting to order at I . I 3:00 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments.' I Present V.Jere Banfield, Chc_nee, Orsini and Berry. fir.e ,safety Mr. Ronald A. Hendrie,.State Fire Marshal, commented :on r!~tles & regs., HB 644 - Enforcement of state fire safety rules and l H 644 regulations. All this bi~l is doing is changing existing i _B . statutes.. ~"'hen this la~'T was originally written, there .-1 .. _ weren't any boroughs. The Anchorage borough attorney - doesn't want to enforce this unless they are specifically I included'inthis law. Mr. Hendrie was in favor of this legislation. - Banfield noted that further consideration ~'Ilould be given to this, measure--when a quorum was present .. -motor Safety HB 645'- Motor vehicle safety respons~bility. Lieutenant re3ponsibility McLaughlin~ who is in charge of driveris licensing arrd 'I HB645 related fields ~ 2.ppeared b2fore the cOIT1.11ittge in f&.vor O!,"" ! this legislation.' This bill also changes existing law. t :~V~~:e~h:o~~i~:~~~~d:o~~ri~~.C0~~3~96~ ~~e~C~~;C~;igi;~i8' j bill was placed into' force the $200 accident was not so common. The value of accidents has pretty much reaehed an inflationary figure' so that we have to handle 60% of all accidents 'in the state. This calls for $400~ With ~'$400 minimum it will be easier on his office. They have a backlog of cases right now and this is an attempt to alleviate the situation. Banfield asked about the effective date. \vhat about the backlog of cases when this bill is passed? Lieutenant McLaughlin said he hoped it would ap~ly to the backlog cases, too. Chance asked if this related to people without liability insurahce. The lieutenant said there is a section that says that you have to file an accident report if the damage is so much. ___ .... He .... said.. theY···1~ere interested in· the- -uninsured motorist -" ..-.- ...~~ ..'.- ..-...----"-:.. ,-~,.-.- .... -- who puts the insured motorist in jeopardy.' He sai~,they made a computer run on the accident cost. It is, very close to $300--about $316. That!s why we felt $400 'was not 'unreasonable. This is so that we don't have to handle every accident. The individuals would take care of their own cases. Chance asked about injuries. McLaughlin said it did not apply to injuries. Chance noted that on page l~ tr line 17 it said ffinjuries • It said anything under $400. McLaughlin said the parents would have to go to the small claims court to make settlement. The ·qU8.stio-'1 idCiS asked ~fn2.t:; ~2.ppens nO'TtJ l"rhen a driver has an accident and he doesn f t h2.ve a valid type insurapce policy. (McVeigh arrived 3:07) McLaughlin said if the' ----------------------- Page 364----------------------- f rage 2 ·13/l8 person hasn't been carrying insurance their license ~L;~') ~I·?~lol(e~J.~) ri'il~L~~ i.. 0 L~.~:)~l::; ~~[~:'C)~;.gcl ~~ [~e2..·~'ir-lg c)fi'i,C8?:~~ -! i If a person has been involved in a~ accident and he is ~ wrong; we will suspend his driving pr~vilege uhtil ~motor released by the other driver--placing himself under I ~~fety respon- insurance for three years. Sometimes this can be done sibility in three days and sometimes it is never done. HB645 The repeaters in motor vehicle accidents are pretty heavy_ They are the problem drivers. This would get them off. the road. He said they were six months b~hind--all'because of inflation. Orsini would like to put in an· additional amendment that would affect the reporting of accidents. If the co~bined damages are over $100 then you have to report. You canft do much more than scratch a fender for that amount now. He felt the same philosophy should' be used on this and raise this figure, too. Chance asked what the value of have an accident report was if the damages totaled $100 and then the department wouldn't' . get involved until $200. IilcLaughlin sald they used these. ~ep6rts for highway planning. Accident report~ng shows '! the bad spots on the highways. This :is a help to the f highway engineers. Banfield asked hi~ ~f he would approve of Orsinirsamendment. McLaughlin said $200 would be a good figure and he would favor Orsini's amendment. This amendment 'will be prepared. . . .'. McVeigh asked Lieu~'enant McLaughlin about no-fault. We have several no-fault bills in free conference committee ( \ now. This requires mandatory insurance of some kind. dne covers personal injuries and one would include property damages. Do you have any thought on the desirability of no-fault in relation to covering property damage? Would this help out in administering your.office? McLaughlin said that no-fault--they do not relieve financial responsi- bility_ There will still be a determination needed to find out who has or has not had the insurance. He felt that no-fault would be an asset tothem._ Primarily because it puts us all in the same game ..McVeigh said the legisla- t~re is awaiting an actuarial study from a midwest firm about the rates. He said he felt the legislature wou:ld adopt one. On~ of these schemes will provide for property damage. There is another one that is strictly for per- sonal injur~. McVeigh felt this would alter McLaughlin's office considerably .. McLaughlin said he didn't know if you would be able to make people have insurance. state fire Banfield turned attention to HB 644 -State fire regulation ~ r,egulations and Orsini moved this bill out \'lith a rrDo PassH recommenda- tion. There was no objection ~nd the bill was signed out. HB641.~ .Btu\i"'ield :1 fJ~cVeigh, Orsini) ?:l·;J.lone Bond' Beirne signed !rDo Pass 11; Ch8.DC2signed trNo rec;1. nurses HB 576 - Nurses licensure. Kitty Gair, testified in fa~6~ :(. licensure 6 ,.~ 192 ----------------------- Page 365----------------------- 3/10 Page '1 ?~ this ~~g~slat~o~: She was speaking for th~·legisla~ l~l \!8 c()(n:[llt~ef: OT. ·S,(~~. fi_las~=2. ;>~~~32;3 i~030~~_LEt~=LcJ~!. c:- : ' '}'l c..~ ,)I...t.J... ,-. LInde:' pr~;3t::nt 12:vi tr18 o~ll~I proi'e3s-lorla.l r'easci!. for ~fnieh a license could he denied is negligence. By adding, as this bill does, professional incompetency, you are trying ·to prevent injury to a patient. The Board has not had the auth6rity to take away a license. Some nurses who have not practices for 25 years want to renew their licenses~ They feel that a nurse should be required to 'I· have k~owledge of current medical practices and have kept up to date .. In one ca.se they have had a reference t from the employer who states the individual to be incom- . petent but the ~oard feels there is noway they can Wi.th.-"·l . hold the· license. By adding this ·provision in the ·law . the Board feels it will be better able to conside~ all·· I aspects o"r the licensing. Mrs. Val Lennon, executive officer for the Board of Nurses~. testified in favor of this bill. She said the reason· I . the board wants this bill is that present la1JJ "doesn't allov~ . . ! the board to disallow lic~nses to persons who have net j practices for five years. We have so many applications i co~ing in saylng that the nurses aren~t competent, also~ t Q~ 'j... "", 'r,ir""\V""\+- +--r.. ~h~' 1\(11_..., ",",P-F'-:..-.,,....... P ........ -..., "..,.._ ......... _....: .._~ ..........._ 01..-.-." .-. ..... ~~ .f IJV H\..- ".vi.':'''''' lJV V.l.L'- .n.u ...... V..1....I..-'-.'-'-;':;: .LV..!. aL.l. V}'...!...l.l...!...V.l.l·. J..}.L1C UQ..-L.U I. they asked for the penalty secion. This wquld include I~- the employees who are.the biggest violators. Within the last two months approximately one dozen nurses who are unlicensed have been found out. It ·is questibnable whether some of them have ever had a license. Our laws say that they shall be licensed. She said hospitals do-this, too--hire some of these people. They grab anybody that says they are a nurse. That is the reason they would like to have this bill. Chance asked if she would object to just having the fine and taking out trimprisonment H &? Mrs. Lennon said this relates to the person that does this time and time again. McVeigh asked who is the employer of a nlirse·~ - He" said if his wife got sick and he wanted a nurse. Say it was tJ a broken ankle and he wouldn't ask about "pedigree · as long as he could get things done that were necessary. Mrs. Lennon said this would not apply to a case like that as long as she isn't s~ying she is a RN.· It says in the bill Itknowi"nglyIT· employs another in violation. . She said they were trying to get at the hospitals that knowingly· do this. They hire people that aren't even nurses. The doctors know this, tob. McVeigh asked if t·he hospital hired nurses. You can't put a hospital in jail. You can fine them, though. The onli one you would be getting--the hospite.l a.c:.mini3trator ~\Jould be crimin.all;y ! liable. . .. I Mrs. Lennori said the board has the respbnsibility to see that people in this state get good care and the only way they can do this is to be sure that the nurses are "licensed. That way the nurSes will have to meet the qualifications. 193 ----------------------- Page 366----------------------- I 3 18 1 / McVeigh said he didn't object applying this against the hr:)splta.ls 2.n.d doctors. bl.~-i:; that he T:T3.S r91~~ct;2.nt to 231-:· ... :; ., ....:. f:),'(' ·im;n·>i.3':JrL;r2.:T~ F'()~C:3.;:i indi·r~ciu,a.l.. E2 j:'elt t.clat; this \..) .. f.!.. ••..,1 should be ~pplied to the person who is supposed to be [HE 57 registered. Since this would effect the Depart~ent of . . Cornmerce~-McVeigh ~~rantedto kno~'7 hOi/! it \'Jould effect i their administration. Mrs. Lennbn said thi~ came from Missouri law. Banfield asked if the departme~t was opposed to this. A representative from that department said they didn t t kno\ilJ about it so they didn T t have an opinion or stated positi6n on this. . . r,1rs. Gairsaid ,that this also came up in terms of ~\fhat . . I was going to happen on the first aid camps on the pipeline. They wanted to. make sure they had qualified people .. ,She! said that during these discussions one of the legislators felt there should be some control on t,hefirst aid help .. These camps will be staffed with nurses or paramedics .. The paramedics are not licensed nore are they necessarily qualified. That is the reason for the ~t~ict control on·· ! nurses. Mrs~:Lennoh said they had asked one of the.health! . corporations not to hire unlicenses nurses~ . They continu- I ally ignore us. These people are teach~Dg other aides. ! Tl1isis th6Yukou H8alLh CurpurCii..~lon. Thl;.:; is very dis..... ,. . turbing to the Board. . Mr. Ray Roady, Department of Commerce, had informat'ion· distributed·to the communities. In the written·testimony-- the red-ringed portion--portions of present statutes> they specify that if the Board has reason to believe that the applicant doesn't have sufficient knowledge to' carryon practice, they may deny the application of the nurse. When you get over into 270 on· page II·, the list for grounds of denial--incompetency was not listed. This has be·en listed iri this. bill. There is a paradox here so the department would like to be able to in some manner deny individuals a license after a hearing on t·h-eincompetency 'prOblem. Mr. Roady is in favor of the bill . - ............. ...------- -, .•.._---_._-_.- ...--.__ ........_-_._... -... - . - - .. ..-.---.-- -------.~----.. --.-.. ..: ....__ ._._--- .-- -. --,- - --~-- -- ."" .._-- ~-- ...-.-.--.-.----------.~.------~-.-'- Banfield··aske'd Mr. Roady if he felt that a nurse after. ' not practicing for five years would be so far behind that they could not qualify for a renewal of their license. , He said this was true and that they should be required to have some more education to bring them uP. to standard. Chance asked if the previous comInittee had moved for -the adoption of this 'amendment. B~nfield noted that br. Beirne had brought it along with her today_ Mrs. Gair ~d 'h' 1 .--. .. d" i L." L..'. ...." 1 I . sal . 1;. at; VTneD lJOlTl_merce lscussec~ 'J!1lS--vI1lS pa.rlj-lCU ar i p,Yction THas not discus3ed. 'i/ihen :'je \'iere talking about the problems of employers Mr. Hingrove suggested that the amendmetit be sent to Dr. Beirne. ThatTs what we did. Chance noted that the amendment will have to be drafted prop~rly. ~94 ----------------------- Page 367----------------------- --------P-.~-(J'-~-t:::;----~----------:-------:--:-----~~ -j J --U- J 13/IB. i statutes take HB 758 - Time that statutes take effect. There is an !. aG2~dment that Cle~ ga~e ~is. O~C of ~h2 eff2c~ive dat~s lE3 7S i~~~~ia~!SeJ~e~~i;~ I~~te~~;~grn~:i~h~~ew~~i~ ~~~e~~St~~ date I that other bills take effect--if that were to happen . I it will take place some ti~e during tbis session. Thii I will cause confusion on the rest of the bills gOing through this year. If you put in a effective. date or January 1, 1975, all legislation next year will go by' what this bill .says but it will nbt effect anything p~ssed thisLy~ar. _Banfi~~d instructed Randy t.o prepa~e I an amendmen0 GO COifer th~b. '. .... lost gear by· .. HJR 75 - Reporting of lost gear by fo~ign fishing vessels,1 foreign fish- was the next item for discussion. 'Chance asked if they t ing vessels left the fish nets "in the water. 'This ruins the propel- HJR lers of other fishing boats. Banfield "didn't think that was what this referred to. One thing of note is that gear left out in the water for.any reason continues to :catch fish. The resblution vas signedoutw cBanfield~ fiIcVeigh.; Chance, I/~alone;, O~sini and Beirne sigrled" rlDo. I Pass. TI I pr-e-s8.nLcHi..!e SB 337am - Pre-sentence investigations~ amending Alaska inve s t ig2. t ions Supreme Court Rule of Criminal Procedure· 32 (c) (1). SB 337· Chance said what "V'le' needed to do vlas fund the presentence am activities and not "act on this. Banfield agreed. This bill was set aside. . (' The committee was ready to act on HB 645. McVeigh moved or safety and asked unanimous consent that this bill be reported responsibility out as amended with a "Do PassT! recommendation. There· HB 645 was no objection and the bill "wassigneo. out. Banfield" IVlcVeigh) Chance -' Malone, Orsini and Beirne all signed the bill l1Do Pass n • . HB 758 - was to be signed out 1Hith the amendment. Ran?-y statp.tes take explained to Malone that this covers v~toes :for the first effect time. Malone asked how soon a veto is'overridd~n does' it" HB758 become law~-"""'""Randy'--said""'i tbec'bmes la1iV that·day. "---It used to be go days thereafter. The bill was signed out with Banfield, McVeigh, Chance and Malo'ne Signing uDo Passu; Beirne signed UNo recr~. nurses HB 576 - nurses licensure. Chance said this had been licensure in the statutes previously. You almost have to go to HB576 tb~ employer bec~use there are so many types of care available today. She is in favor of this amendment as presented by the' nurses association. This gives them a chance" to crackdown on t~e unregistered nurses. ftIcVej.g;h said this 0akes it apply to the ones that rrkno~\T­ ingly II hi-re such people. Chance s aid she did think that the fine would be eno~gh of a penalty. Randy has rewritten the amendment·. Instead of adding it at the place they suggested) he added it to (3) of the preceding section. 195 ----------------------- Page 368----------------------- I 13/18. Ch:lnce said she 1tJoulcl like to hav8 constd?ra.tion given' I to c!. S le·t; irl~2j t 1-1_:2 i;~lP ri S onfTl2 (1~::; fro3 t ~~{"~ g~::r:2l'3.1 p e 113.1 t Y section and leaving just t~;? fine. Banf,1_eld said 'de should have a CS on this bill. Randy will prepare one~ arnendment:3 to HB 123 - Amending certa:i.n l.:r:Ts to comply ~'Jith _rre~lual comply w/ rights amendment H to Alaska Constitution. Banfield said equal r.ights she had worked on this with Randy_ She said they made HB 12 - a ~ood bill out of it. Randy is still working on this . and it \-v1l1 be brought back to the cOlnmittee when finished .. legisl2.tive "LIB r-7"" 6 L . 1 ' . .., . L. • -C> -. t ,. - ~ .t:". I t J. • {C· ..... egls o.Gl ve CODI l!:"ma:.,lon 01. appoln Jment;s .l::5anJ.l2 _ ~ convirmation said that ~ight now the law in unclear. Malone thought HB 76 this was to extend the deadline. McVeigh said that as far as he was concerned he Eelt that we should delete special sessions to avoid a constitutional problem. This is on line 11.- Special sessions are only called _fo~specificpurposes and no other activity is" to take place so it wouldn't apply any way_ McVeigh moved to deleteaft-er _:fl shall n H~'Ji thin 14 days of a special H sess ion - or • ~here ~'.[asno obj ection_. Randy made - another suggestion of finding a differ~nt word for - deadline. Chance said this was already in eXisting I statute_ - l'iIalonesaid you could say Uthis date". Randy I said they were talking about a vacancy_ The question comes up about--prior to 30 da~s within the session and the governor doesn't act for 45 days. What do you do then? (Beirne arrived 4:20) Malohe asked what happens when_ ~nder -pres~nt law the legislature passes a resolution extending the deadline. Say extend it to April 5~ would the governor have to send over any appointments? Do we really need this law? Banfield said that according to Legislative Affairs thi~ point is unclear and shaky~ Chance said that John Elliot felt there was a great deal of haziness to this. Beirne had some suggested new· word- ing to clarify intent. Hafter the new appointment is made he must present-the appointment to the legislature."- Barifield said that that made sense. It tells which five days. There 't'Tas no obj ection to the amendment. It was. __ , .---.-.. -. ----':relt-this·shollid-be-'·prepared as a CS. extending HCR 70 ~ Extending the- deadline-for submission of 1 deadline for executive appointments. TJiis extends the date to April_ HCR 70 submission of 5· - Chance said this will give himmor~-time to submit exec _ appt. additional -names. The time is over for this year. It -- is 30 days - after the beginning of the session. Beirne asked if we did this by resolution. McVeigh felt if the governor needed this we should give it to him. Malone moved HCR70 out of cOffiInittee :;'Tith a HDo Pass" reco!Y1menda- t:iJ,r__,. r.'hoy>o N~'-:' "no o0i~('+--;o·~ B;:~Y1t·i_:;:,.ld· M;.")lorle ;o,'T-,V'-::'';(J'h ....,~_J - ... -"--~ '1'-'-" ... .J -_ uu~-v- 1_~ l.....J~_. __ ~___ "-""_..:._ ~ .:..1 ......... _ J. ~ t(.t..~.~~~.:•.,:) ..... , H ~~~2X1Ce, Or3irli an(~ Beirne all SigC:9d liDo Pass • _ treatment of Chance moved to bring up SB 32am - Examination and treatme -_ ( ,.nors of minors. She said she \';as addressing her comments to He - "--"',' for SB 32. They made it so the phYSician could talk to th minor about his or her problems. 196 ----------------------- Page 369----------------------- P8,e:;i=.' 7 Malone said he had problems with the language on line 18 ~\Tt1e~:2 it S.~~_~iS B.!JOLlt c0ntB_ct~ng 9~1~en.t3 !!is' u_·rr~i'[ill·ing to gre,r:.l:.; ()r ;,'ri.t!l(;,.Jld CC)llS2t1t" 1::~:'?j"::":2 32.i.cl tl'li;:; ~;':-:?::lr"''':::) i.e treatment ,the parent is unwilling to withhold or grant permission then the doctor cart p~oceed. McVeigh said he doesnft f SB 32 I agree with that. Beirne said what it really means is I am if the parents are contacted and they don't want the child to be treated~~it says the doctor has to ~ounsel. I McVeigh said that means if the parents fail to authorize treatment then the minor may give his OIHn consent. ; Randy I ',recommends that since there is a difference of opinion .as eto what that language means-there 'also might be a t { difference' of opinion with the doctors. This nee~s to' be ~larified. Chance said this is getting at the parerit I : who is refusing to accept the responsibility one way or the other. Malone felt 'THe should straighten out the lang- uage. It needs to be' simplified. Make it so the minor may give this consent if the parent won't give consent. Banfield asked if he meant even if the parent said No. . Malone said he thought that was what the bill was saying' anyway_ McVeigh reads it that way> too. ,It should be' t that the minor may give cor:sent unless his p2.rent or I ~~~a~~g~~~~~~~_S~~~~h~_ca~~~:~~~anf~~~~~~a~~~~h~~~~i~~ . Wdb Q.v Vd..L·.1.cU.l.l,;C W...LlJ.ll !'!.L'. !'.Lv'JC..L6.l..L. .!,·.Lu..!..Vl..!• ...::.. ..... u....!..\..<. V.UU.V .:..!.'- wanted this clarified. When the parent is unwilling to make the decision then the minor can give consent accord- ing to Chance. That is when you get to the case where the doctor phones up and the parent says they don't care one way or the other. Chance said if the papents would say No, then the doctor wouldn't be able to give the treatment. l\lalone said if this is 'V-lhat the committee wants the bill to say, then they should clarify the language. Malone suggested letting the minor give con- sent. Banfield asked if he meant no matter what the parents say. McVeigh said that when a doctor has a pat~ent--anyone ne~d ing t~~at.rp.ent s.h.9_u.1d be treat,ed. He' said... one, doctor asked how he could do a pelvic on a minor girl since she is not of the age to give consent. McVeigh felt he would be . obligated to give treatment to anyone of any age for any 'i~lness they might have . . Malone felt there was a different set of problems .. If the parent cantt control the minor--let that minor giveconsen If the parent has contr61 over the child, the child w6n't give his consent anyway. Chance likes the language as written ~ Beirne moved HeS for SB 32 out ~"Ji th a "Do Pass tf recommendation. McVeigh said he would sign trNo recTI. Banfield said she wished we could clear up What the bill I says because it might j~st io on through this way_ Then r I they vTould get into a big Floor discussion. rr'his triOLl_ld 197 ----------------------- Page 370----------------------- ----------------------------------~------~~~~~~~-:!~~~ be ·particularly true,. since th.ere ..a.;r>e ..~eye.r~l schQQIs· of thought. Malone agreed·that ihe lan~~~ge-sh6tird· be cleared up. Malone s~ggested that a m~nor may give cc~s~~t for 2edica! a~d :~ntal 3er~ice3 if the p~r2nt cannot 08 contacted or of contacted is unwilling to or withholds consent. Banfield said this should be a com- ( mittee substitute from Judiciary. Malone said we should ~; further clarify that a minor may not give consent if his parent withholds consent. Banfield asked who has to pay for the treatment. Beirne said that the parents would in no way be held responsible for these bills. Randy asked if this would be true if the pa~ents refused or would not give his consent~ the doctor would have to look to the child to pay for .his own treatment. Chance said these would be children from broken families anyway. Where there is communication between parent. and child they wouldn't come under this. Dr~ Beirne had some sug- gested language. On Line 19 tlcannot be. contacted or iru. H After contact put "and • Line 20 Heither to grant or withhold". (Orsini returned) You would have to sub~ stituteTrto give JI • McVeigh .said this "TN-as still very G.onfusing.· In ths first t~~iO S211teDC8S-YOU. saytha.tt;he· { minor can give c00sent. The physician doesn't·have any .. I i-d~a about the valid interests of ,t~~.~..~_re?~~ or t~e Child.1 Belrne felt we were more clearly ueL~n~ng ~nlS so noctars would have to call the parerlts. r1alone .suggested that we delete lines l7-24 on page 1; he so moves and asks ~nan~mou . consent. Beirne objected ..McVeigh said this would make it a cleaner bill. Chance then suggested deleting lines 16 on after n consent TI to line 20. IIIcVeigh thought ilIe should retain that. This is the portion on couns~lihg._ Chance .said in section 1 they can give consent. Beirne u said she felt this was a good bill. After line 18 add fThowever". Banfield asked if this was referring to a minoy> living apart from the family. In paragraph 2 you enlarge this to mean any minor, even someone living at home. Banfield said if they a~L'e being treated for VD . the family is entitled to knoH this. Beirne said this says if the parents can't be contacted~ This means they kno1~ about it , but they· care less. Randy said there "tv-as a problem here--you can end up with one result if you require that the parents be contacted i~ they are livlng at home. You may induce them to move out of the home in order for them to receive treatment. Malone felt that t~e lang~age either/or was confusing. He ·said the way.· he reads it the minor may ·give consent.· The ~est is . almost .~uperfluous. Malone withdrew his motion .. Chance requested :the committee to leave the concept that the parents are unei11ing to take part in the decision. They ~onft get into the act, then the doctor could proceed. She said that is VJh~t. ;;he thought. the language. m2a~t . .McVeigh iaid the·bill mentions the parent being unwilli~g t6 grant permission. -That is why he thinks we should say unwilling to make the decision. If the parent says No then the doctor can't treat the child. 198 ----------------------- Page 371----------------------- {3/18 pa.ge9 I 1 , f r/[::L]_·:.)rl'~ ~);3,.~'=-3 if )70 ). 9:J~t t.:;:~{":: r1.2:·j .l·~!.:~~?;j.).2::·~:f:: ~L~"L T~:"~e;l t~12 ~~~~f,~; i language says the mino~ ca~ give the consent 'and the doc- 1 t:reatment tor can still treat him. McVeigh said he didn't-think ,linors the doctor--he doesn't have to get consent from the ISB 32 parents to treat a minor because he has to treat every~ am. one no ~atter what their age. Ir the minor has a disease he should be treated by the doctor. McVeigh said the only think the do~tors are afraid of is being charged with . assault and battery. Minors canft buy cars, make con- tracts, etc., until thay of legal age. The parents would sue on the basis that the doctor took unfair advantage and .liberty with the body so they filed suit even though the child.was willing. This is the same as the statutory- rape' statute.. The court would do the same with that. Assuming that the girl was really sick, I don't think they would hold the docto~ liable. Instead you want to give the· ~inor the right to give consent. Dr~ Beirne gave the example of the ChilTd.h.!.~fd'~c2hO'..t...L:ipS~..~_·~~_a.~ ;~..,.....~ ..', Scientist. The child had ~n e2rache. lJ~ 0 v -. ~~-.~~~ :the ear and drainei it. lilcV'eigh said doctor;3shouldn r t operate in the capacity. They shouldn't inquire about I ybur religion. I f Berry said there was another side. -A child who is in pain. He doesn't go along with his parent's belief and the doctor or a series of doctors are' concerned about being sued. McVeigh said he felt the doctor dould be sued for not giving assistance in such a case. This would be especially true if th~ child lost his hearing. Beirne 'said she felt the doctors needed this bill. Me' Veigh said this would be a civil action and the case would have to go before a jury. The jury will have to find the doctor guilty or not guilty. He didn't think they could get a conviction in such a case. Chance said that the lartguage that is so ~6bfusing is the part that· brings in counseling. Beirne said this was-the 'only way they could get this out of HESS committee. Chance moved out ReS for SB 32 instead of SB 32am' with a tTDo Pass H recommendation. The bill was signed out. o Banfie ld) r~alone, Beirne, C!.nd Chance signed uno Passn ;. McVeigh and Orsini signed HNo rec". Meeting adjourned at 5:03 p.m. . I I 199 ----------------------- Page 372----------------------- HnTT_~R .TTTTlrrT II RV 1'(l'\jTMTfTlfTlDC' ___ ____ _ - ___ - ... __ .. -" _'-';"~J-*-'-'..J,..-'-~~ -"113/291 MINUTES OF TH~ MEETING Tuesday, March 19, 1974 I 11 i Vibe-Chairman Banfield called the meeting to order at 3:08 p.m. in Room 104 of'the Assembly Apartments. Present weie Banfield~ Orsini> McVeigh and Malone. The first item for consideration was HE 328 - Creating Dept. of a Department of Transportation. Mr. Robert Pavitt~ HB 32 transportation Director of Planning and Re~earch in the Governor's off~ce 0as the first to testify on this bill. Mr. Pavitt repeated testimony given before the Commerce Committee. He was opposed to this proposal. He said this testi- mony was the Governorts views. He said it was unfortunate that people think reorganization will bring about solu- tions' to our problems. Mr. Pavitt read his prepared testimony, a copy of which vIas' submitted to the committee. He doesntt see the approach of a department' of trans~.· portation which has not been s~ccessfu~ in the o~her - ,~tates as being a iolution to our outstanding problems in the field. Further~' he said he believed that this I I is retrogression or a baciG-Tard step. Orsin'i asked if ·it was his function to coordinate actlvities bRtw22n t the department of highways and public works .. He .said , Yes. Orsini asked if his office was doing the baiancing . .function that the department of transportation would do. Mr. Pavitt said that was correct. - .. Banfield asked if it was Mr~ Pavitt's office that does the planning for where roads and airports will be. He said No~ but that the Department of Highways does this .. They have a planning system and division. Public Works' also does this for aviation and marine transportation. It is our 'role to coordinate these function~. We- . see that tbey are serving the needs of the people. Chance asked if this new department would envelop three existing agencies. Mr. Pavitt said this wouldn't nec.essarily be ;:.< ' true. Under;the system of government that we have they _ ,__ .._, .. _____ .,..""ould still. be accessible to - the - governor - and-his... own .. --:---·-·-·.- advisory planning group which is my division." Orsini said Mr. Pavitt's office does more than work with trans- portation. Chance said she understood that. Pavitt said that this view is correct except that you would have the two functions--'coordinating with local government--etc .. That would still have to,be' done. There is still the coordination with the other nontransportation factors : that get into the transportation planning and these would still have to be .. carriedon. Transportation planning is linked to where people are.: Malone said th~t it seems that the statements just made are for. ! ~h~ 'Ol'll· rQ~ha~ ~~sn ~gain~~ l·~ mh~r~ ~~ DlQnn~n~ .i v!._\..... -'- ("..l,..V __ "-_ vJ._u#..:. ... a _.L_uv v. ....!. ...... -- ___ "_" J...V .&. CL .. __ l...L .... -b going on 'in"the Department of Highways and Public Horks, ma:cine highways, and 'Haters and harbors ~ as well as your \ I office. Does this result in a coordinated policy? Mr. '----i Pavitt thought that it did. He gave an example. The national transportation ~tudy sets forth the.ne~ds. This 200 ----------------------- Page 373----------------------- Page 2 has resulted in the .establishment of more people input into transportation planri~g) !eading to ~ unifi~d ~\ 'CC~ ~ C.: (l :; .:.1. t i 0 D t \] the t e (I c"? r'2.1.. / s -~ c~t 2 1~l:l d Ll'::~ :;; P 1 a ('1:'-1 i (1 g of commission with respect to t~e need for transportation ~ransporta­ coordinators in the state. This is for the need for tioD reservation of these coordinators through lands that HB328 are being withdrawn for other federal purposes. The. I present system has the clout of the state of Alaska . behind it rather than the. weaker presentation of a single agency. Malone said that whatever the strength of the argument it would seem to follow on their own merit. The fact is then that the coordination of transportat~on policy ·at the present time would take place through ~he g6ver- norts office. This would be an civerall transportation policy. Mr. Pavitt said that was correct ~ .Malone further commented that this lvould no.t take place on the lower level, say highways versus marine highway~ or differences between aviation and harbors. Malone 'asked Mr.· Pavitt ~f he .felt there might be a degree of I competition that results from this. He said there mightj ·be. He said he didn't· think that the competition would t' result in any lessening of the public. interests in trans- ..,. portation. He felt that there was some competition within I any organiz~tion. Mr. Pavitt said:that establishment or . a single department doesn't necessary end,the competitive activity .. Resaid you might say that there is competition between aviation and marine transportation in the Depart- ment of Public Works~ He said there are problems not responded to in 'the bill. We haven't mentioned a divi-' sion of railroad. Chance asked what we would have to add to the b~ll to respond to all of the needs. Mr. Pavitt said it would take a lot· more work. He said, in his own opinion, that he thought,the bill was struci- turally unsound. You have to have a reason for changing the structure of state government. T~~ reason could only be that you feel that the. existing structure ,is. not ~I]ork­ ing. If the existing structure is not working; he said ·he\vould. submit that there is arnpleauthority wi thin. the ..., law arid the departments for making it "'lork better. This ,"'{ould be his approach rather than changing the structure" Chance repeated her question. He said he couldntt answer. ·He just doesn't agree with the concept. It would take a study of all parts of the transportation picture to see what was missing. He said that he had not conducted such a study. Orsini said th~re had been some speculation in Anchorage of using r~il transportation more extensively . for commuters between Palmer and Anchorage and al~o in Ancho~age within the borou~h. When you get an inter- borough transit system, who evaluatea the alternatives? Mr. Pavitt said he initially submitted the plan on the, shuttle service. This was a plan for rapid transit from the .airport to down town. He said h~ had also discussed the Palmer proposal. This could be a bi-borough authority This is done in air poll~tion and other instances. Two 201 ----------------------- Page 374----------------------- i j/ i Y Page 3 boroughs can go together. Rights-of-way for rail ser- Tran3it Auth0rity~ a f2der~1 agency, would be also Dept. of invol~ed. I donft see arty reason why that subject could ~! ?ansDortationpot be purs~ed within the present framework of state - ~ - government. Orsini asked who "would take the lead in this planning. He also mentioned the possibility of a bus system. In each case you would have the department of highways advocating. the bus system or wider roads. Who decides if you will widen the highways or put in a shuttle ser- vice? Orsin1 asked further who the railadvo6ates would be: Mr. Pavitt said he was not sure that there is a conflict that is 80 often pointed out. He said he could not speak for Commissioner Campbell, but felt his objec- tives would be the same--This means we want· the best urban transportation system that can be provided. You~ can't run buses without roads. The rail idea at best would be a supplementary thing. - i I tvLt: ~ 'Pavi tt felt that the Ancl1cra.~e b'orough ~'iould take car~ of the problems in their area. ~hey have received i the firstraplQ Lran~lt grant but they didnit ro~low i up o'n their study. They have another grant 2.pplication in for enlarging their bus system. They are the ones that made the decision. He said he nor Commissioner Campbell had any say in the matter. Orsini noted that this grant is only for within the borough. This would not include Palmer. Mr. Pavitt said that the feds have to make the decision. That ended Mr. Pavitt's testimony. The next person to testify against this legislation \vas Commissioner Bruce Campbell of the Department of Highways. He prefaced his remarks "tvith com.rnent s respect~ng the theory o~theblll ~s h~ sees it. He said' 'this is an attempt to integrate planning func- -·-,--~··-:,,-··'-·-'-'--'-'ti ons'~-'of -"vari ous··trans·portat i·on- ·'agericie"s1n the . state .. There.is concer~ that there is no integration of the planning function. He said he would like to say this . does not really address itself to that. There is a great deal of planning that is done on all levels .thoughout the state. He fe"lt this was much more :i.mpor- .tant than j~st having state planning. Your planning has to reach not only th~ state but has' to reach out to the cities, boroughs, natives, etc. If you are go- I ingt? have.a good S?lid.transpo~tation syste~ all.fa?ets 1 need ~o be lDcluded In tne plannlng process. For lns~ance~ 1 • -, -f.-' .l- ,.... L.' '. , • " . b . . -1 I ne SalQ vDav many OI vue COit;.:'YllC-Cee memo erSDsr2'GO(J.ay are . from' Anchorage. He said he didnft think that they have [-:itopped to think that highiiJays doesn t t have the say in Anchorage. 'The planning there is done by AMATS. The state has no vote. Planning in this case is controlled by the local people. He 1'.Janted the comIni ttee to keep that in mind. Vesting the planning on.. one person--this 202 ----------------------- Page 375----------------------- 13/19\ misses the target of where the basic planning occurs. I... .. , This occurs on a day-to-day interchange at the local l::.~veJ_. ::-L:: ~.)2~~d i.f th~~;'3 ~·:--?cS ~~'l~':: :"e.<:.:3CJ::' for t:ne btl.l J I i it ;tr~~ll-not rj>~8(,::ss.J.l:·ily :f()llo~I that it ~'Iill be success- i ti':)l1 .ful. Planning must begin at the local level. There ~s IHB32 'fIT the feeling that there are competing modes of transporta- -..~) tion planning. We don't have this in most ar2as of Alaska. One of the reasons> is that in most places there isn't any transportation., Mr. Campbell read-some information from_his testimony. He said these .were the facts and figures that have developed from the particu- iar programs. When you put in a bus system, you may generate a thousand trips on the bus but you don't use the car any less. I What you are talking about is an expanded system of transportation~ This shouldntt be considered competi- tion when facilities are expanded. Mr. Campbell said it w~s easy to sit here and say--are we making the. right decisions. Should we have highways -instead of ferries. He said that $9 m.illion ~'Jent into the marine tran~portation system fro2 highway funds. He said I they are continually buildi~g on this. He did saY-II that these are the only monies that are interchange- able. - Ii' aft2l· lHaklng tn2 AIiiATS they wanted the train to go betv,reen Palmer and -Anchora.ge; there are no fQYlds available now. You might get a grant. A lot depends on the economic ability to finance the alternatives and ( \ is an important part of the decision making process. He said he had met with others in dep~rtments 6f transporta- ~- tion in other states. They have meetings. .As fa.r -as Mr. ~ Campbell can determine, where they have taken over high- ways they have the same problems they had five years ago. Their abilities have not improved as a result of ch~nging their structure. There is also another thing to consider. This is the fact that a small percentage of your executiv.e's time is spent on-planning transportation. The major. portion of' his time is spent in operations and maintenance .._~Jhen ____ _ --youroll everybody into·transport~ti6ri you-are also going to give them the headaches of construction. and main- tenance. And~ now you want to give this all to one man. He would h~ve one big head~che. You will have a less effective organization than you have- now. He asked if the increased planning effort \'re get by combining ~lill offset the poor administration in our $200 million con- struction a~~Tards and $50 million maintenance programs statewide. He concludes that they will suffer. T~is bill addresses itself only to the planning and not to construction and mainte~ance problems ~na~ would result! 203 ----------------------- Page 376----------------------- Page 5 f'lIr. Campbell made the observation that ~ve were getting t~~ a~encies together to do the planning but that we· ' D :3- :'3 ct t }-l ~: ", (~ i G~L (~ ~~ ct[L.j t ~'l~? ~J c; :;.:) 1.).. gl~ ,3. ~:; ~J b 8· in(: .".L 1;. ;~t e cl I.n. D,::.9 t~. of' ,this) too. You also need to include the Alaska Railroad .' -ansporta- arid the airline ~arriers. Malone commented that there LI tioD ' a~e 26 states that have departments of transportation. HB32 Mr. Campbell said this started 'ltlhen the federal government started theirs. _ This fad hit at about the same time. It has been ~bout six years since the first one was ,established. There haven't been 'many added in the last couple ot years. Orsini asked what happens 1'rhen the high~'lay system doubles in size. 'It seems you would have double the problems .. Banfield said that .,ilIas I>Ihy Vie had a cOrrlJ.'TIissioner to made the decisions. Chance asked what UMTG meant.' Mr. Campbell said this was the Urban Mass Transit Grant. That conclrided' his testimony. 'He was not iri favor of :its passage. Mr.- .Bob' D}N'yer::l ActirigCorc1issio!1er of Pub lie ,l'Torlcs::l '~...;as . j 'th.e ne:~tt;o t2Gtffy on fiB 328. . H? .said his (~ep(:l.rt,Lnen.t I is opposed to thisbill~ He said they had testified '1 before State Aff2.irs Committee on this -r1.ly>p.;~dy. H2S.85ct he 'came today to answer any questions com.'TIittee· members ,. might have.' He was .asked if he handled'anything more than small craft transportation, airports and marine (-' transport~tion. He said there ~ere a few things. "--- Mr. Bowman was present and would like to give his '{~ testimony before the.committee. He is in favor of the' bill. He said it was plain from previDus testimony that the administration wa3 opposed to this bill. Banfield asked if they weren't formerly in favor of it. Bowman said the governor at one time did state he was in favo~ of such a department, but he wasn't sure about it~ , . ·rllr.Bowman said it seems to him that there are 22 states " : ' ..:~ .o, • ·that have departments of transportation. These statistics . '_.' ... _.________ .... ___ .. _, ____ ,____ -:.------are from ... a-report .. published .-on.-·the,.different.. d.epartments .,,-_..-.- for 1970. Since the federal department of transportation. was established about six years ago it is obvious why these were. formed. Bo~vman feels that we need to look at new·modes at transportation. One of the problems ~-'. ,. - :~, /,~ . in the field of transportation is that ~vealready nave :ha~e highways so we continue on in this field. There are oth~r reasons for change. One of these 'is efficiency) .saving money,,, coordination mass efforts by all of the departments~ He said he questioned whether this one ~erson would' have 'any m6re I' decisiBDsto make than,i~ t~ue of 2ny head of .any. dep~rt~ , '.' m·ent. ,You' still have within the department' directors who would handle your day-to-day problems. "'.J ,"" to ,\~, 204." ----------------------- Page 377----------------------- i Mr. Bowma~ said that planning for future needs--trans- 'I, 'portation routes from "aT! to "b Tf or ,'tlThether you should r h a ,(-:: 0, f I:; r ry :L 1'1 1 i 2 L.l =Li.:) t 2' 3.~1 0 f c:' h 1gl1~'J2..j: :J.~',? (10 t:: b '~:: i.n,s f ,-11 I.~ ::~! [)"t ~ c) _~\ Gransporta- ~;~~s:~;pi~~~:~~~H~~~~~:;~~:t~~~:~~~:~e~~ri~iEi:hi~\V .·.1 ,Lo up. The Governor's department of planning has a certain I function and certainly can be an advisory funct~on to the variou~ departments. He said he didti't believe that any of them'have to do anything about the reports from other agencies except read them and file them away. He said he would have been more convinced if there had been,' an honest effort made to diss~ct the bill and explain why these things wouldnTt work rather than just a-blanket, statement against it. ' This is a new modern way of coping--getting money from the fede~al transportation funds. 'During the next 20 years they will spend almost $2 billion of federal monies in Alaska. Certainly we should have some way of utillzing th~t to the best interest of t~e.people. We ,have so many .1 ,coinmunities that don r t ha-:re cL.lything other than" air trave 1 ~ :'I~;b~h;~a~: ~~!~: t \'i~~~h~:s~e~~~t ~;n~o~nclThi;oIs\i~~!i~~~ I the lower: 40 Jeveloped. , Bowman said he hadnft heard any , criticism of the bill that tells him that we shouldn't ! go this route. Orsini asked if the problem Bo"tvman 1iiaS trying to overcome VIas lack of coordination. ,Bowman said ( Yes. He wanted to see overall integ~ated planning for construction and the whole thing. Banfield ask~d Mr. Bowman if in some areas he saw an economy in purchasing equipment~ personnel~ etc .. He said Yes. Every depart- ment now has its own planning staff. Banfield asked if this would include maintenance, ticketing, and every thing. He said Yes. He said the buck would have to stop at the high desk. He said in his dealings with the various departments that had been one of the prob- ,lems. If you 'have a problem with highways you go to hi ghvray s,..,..,...they , may not ,have anything to do with, a road , going out to a dock. Bowman asked if anybody .knew that '~all the:'barges are tied up 'from-the Missis~ip~i' west for the next year or two in anticipation of the pipe- line. Do you realize what effect this could ~ave on the regular consumer in Alaska? We need building mater-: ials, food, etc. He said he didn't know if anyone was addressing themselves to that problem. He said that maybe Mr. Dwyer could address that problem but this should be an integrated facet. Malone t~rned to 4 of the bill. It mentioned Ugrants to ,the departm-2:lt 11 O~J. 1i.ne 8. Is that t~e normal 1:[2.-."/ to hex:dle grant r2-G2l.pts right r~o~'J in sta~2 gO\lern::nertt? I'I:c', Bowman said he thought that each agency had their own granting privil~ge. As an example, Highway or boroughs, etc. One of the problems is that it is much Simpler for 205 ----------------------- Page 378----------------------- ------~------IP~a~g~e~7r---------------~~----------------~~--11 3/1: a department of transportation dealing with the federal Dept. of dep(lrt~·ent. of tr.an3portati~J:n :ca.. th-:;r th3.:1 }-lig~i/'i~LY::). ~;L:!,~!.Ctle ~ 3:~~(:t~:!~·~. :.. ~) ;t1 :;_~~.~~r:)~·?_l gT._th~ ~C;:_l~"G_~~~-;c:~t'_,-,at,o;:L': t~~~ ~r I r eApt:Du..Lt..,L.. .cc; OJ.. 2..'. 6 l an", .. ,-,o~'.JlIlan vala Hl~VV 01. ~hlS mone,y I 3 comes from matC?lng monles. '. The m~tchlng m?nl~~ _~ould havy to come out of ~he state monles. Chance sald ~nav the f budget and audit corrlInittee have to approve of these. Banfield said they do.this in the interim. Chance said we might have to look at that part. Banfield felt this could be an amendment. This would be after the budget is closed. Chance said this is not how they handle it in the regular budget but this is routine for interim. Malone said· that anything included in the budget is approved. Malone moves' that the committee report out HB 328 ~\i.i th a nDo Pass 1: recoTr~l1endation. Orsini objected because he "thought the committee should look at the . specifics in the bill~ Chance asked about page 4~ line 7. She suggested that We put language in there saying Hwhen ~uthorized by the legisla.ture or by 2. budget approved b.'] the ·governor.. H Banfield said that if ·it is approved it is apart of· the. budget which has been approvied ~y the legislature. Banfield dtdn't: thi.nk this ~\!2_S necesso.~y. Chanc2 thoug:-.lt it would be better than to h~ve' it limited. Orsini said Banfield.was right. It should go ~fter the word llauthorized n • Mr. BOTJTman agreed to this amendment. All .committee members ~'Tere in favor of Chance's amendment. Banfield said we would have to change the effective date and one other date on page 5. Orsini asked why we singled out airports on page 2, line 6. Bowman said that was one of the problems they have be~n having. He said there was a move to move the airport over across the inlet and there are those who felt in the longrun we should be thinking along thtise lines for the future. Orsini asked if he felt that a general overall J~ill sho.uld get into that level of detail .. It appears that you are talking about general modes of ,transportation but in that particular one you s~ngle out the airporis. Bowman said there are quite a few"in Alaska -. airports where conditions change around them} then you have a big move to relocate the airport~ This requires long-range planning in any situation whe~ethe airports meet· this .. Malbne said that page 3 calls for a study before September 1 'of each year. It ~alks about all types of transportatio' within the ~tate. - You could take airports out .or leave ~hem in and t~ey would be included in thi3 report. "Or3in~ said that no other section did this. Bowman said I ·his explanation would be that airpo~tsare very vital to the s~ate and we have over 400 of them. Mr. Dwyer said they maintained 480. Bowman said he felt airports- are so important that they need to be singled out. Banfield felt that it would weaken the bill if we delete that. Air transportation is an. importa1'1t part or- our problem ... 206 ----------------------- Page 379----------------------- J , 13/19 in the st2te. Ors ni this i~dicates that the] are 8a~e ! ! :Ln~pi)l?t2.nt th9.a any [LL~lP; e132, I·'I2.1oD:~ ,3:-1~Ld it 3'22:-:1 t;~1 ..L;3 , 1 ~'Iay, but it d;Jesn i t seem tG hD.~}t t~le bill either.' D;'iyer i 'ept. of said at the other ,committee meeting both highways and _nsporta- public works had offered the observation for what it I was v,forth that s·2ction 41f. 22.030 on page 2--is SOw-2~'Jhat ~iHB within the executiye branch of the government usually. If that was your intent~ we don't mean to influence you. There is another thing. You don't allaH flexibi.lity in Qrganization the new department because the divisions ~re spelled out. This hasnrt been dotie in other bills. Malone said he could see his point. Where you prescribe the situation in the depa~tment--you might need a division of rail transportation or you might want to, combine or create new divisions in, addition to those that are listed. Written this "'fay, it might be too restr~ctive, and actually be working against the purpose of the bill. Malone thought that we might be able to change this. !. Orsini came hick to 'airports and wondered why there is , I . t ' a separate dIvision of airoorts from marine transporta- ! tion~ Mr. Dwyer said beca~se they are two dissimilar, i operations~' Marine transportation is for operating the I ferries. The Dlvision of Airnorts is for construction . , depa~tment. This department builds airports and con- structdocks~ etc. Randy said that in present statutes it has been done both ways. Some list the divisions and others don't. There is precedent for going either way. The Governor could change the organization or reorganization by ekec~tive order~ This bill directs the way it is organized but is not tying it down.for years to come. It works either way. Banfield asked if the committee was ready to put the bill out. Orsini had some more questions. On page4,se-ction, 70 (a).- He wondered'why' you ~'Touldn ft consult ·Economic Development. Banfield wanted to know why they shoul~ do this. He said if you were talking about recreation you are talking about'social consider- ations. This also takes into con~ideration economic impact. Malone said this language doesnTt limit the department from consulting'with any other department. He gave the example of HighlHays having to consult \\Tith Fish and Game on some things. Natural Resources would probably at times have to consult ~'Ti th Health, Educa- tion, and Social Services. They could also consult on social or econom~c developm~nt. Orsini agreed., Malone ~oved to make an asend=-2nt on page 4, li~2S 13 and. 14. Delete all of lin~ 13 and. delete on line Ij~ add Natural Resources and'E~vironmental Conservation. There was no objection to this amendment. Mr. Bowman said if he remember correctly that under the Environ- mental Conserv~tion Act you cannot do certain things like building or when creating recreational facilities you have to pass the qualifications within this Act. 207 ----------------------- Page 380----------------------- I \ 3/19 ·.1 1 He didn't know whether it would be sood to separate i i it OLlC Ol' clc~l8t.':: J.t:. ~·'l·~1i~L(J;:1.:3 Sil66 s;sbed t~-:Ett, th~ i ~ppropriate -ofricia13 would diver the continien61es. We-are point out some of the things we want the depart- ment to pay some attention to. Bowman commented that I in trying to reach that end> instead you could delete transporta- it by saying Hit is not limited torr. He said we should tion research the Environmental Conservation Act. Orsini HB32( said if that is the case> and_you h~veto do it regard- less of whether it is in the bill or not> hedo~sntt­ see any reason for specifying it in the bill. Malone said when you say the departl!1.ent "shalln consult--a:qd then list -the agencies--it seems to him that this is as strong as specifying. -To -avoid environmental hazards it- would be necessary to consult the Fish andGame~ -- Environmental Conservation, and any other appropriate officials. You may even have to consult with-Federal Fish and Wildlife Service. M~lone suggested that if the head of the department of transportation·w~s following -the law he will be doing this. Malone's amendment was adopted.- I Banfield said this will be cqmpleted tomorroTH. An amend- ment will be prepared for HB 328. Interest CSHB 497 - Interest charged in the state~ The original CSHB charged in HB 497 has a straight 12% true interest rate. 497 the state / "/ Mr. Dick Hall appeared before the committee on the measure. U He said the original bill was introduced by the monetary committee repealed the existing interest statute and - stated that 12% would be the legal maximum interest rate in the state.- The CS prepared by the Commerce_Com- mittee agreed that above $100,000 the loans should be exempt from this limitat~on. Anything below that would be identical to existing la\'J. That is basically ~vhat _this does . It also eliminates-the.1975-·-exp-iration date .. One other thing: It also covers prepaymentpenalties. - _. __'.•~___ • _. ___ • _~_._. __._.--.:._._•...:..o.-r.____ ._._._ .------,.~....--~ ._-_.-.• _.:- ---._-- ---M cVe tgh·-·askecr--i~}ia-t-lhi s---bfiI--~di(i- tothe 1-4 fami ly dwe 11- ing unit. Mr. Hall said this remains at the 4 percentage points above the federal reserve rate. -Chance requested tb see present law. Randy read .thisto the committee. Mr~ Hall said they. were losing com~itments because of the 1975-expiration date. He said. they didn't have any objection-to the existing bill. Chance suggested having a bill that just del~tes all ~xce~t (e). Mr. 0;. Hall said that they were also having probl~ms with the larger loans. They a.re 11% v1nich is COE1Gl0r-!. DOl..\[.- McVe~gh as~ed if the 1-4 family dwelling wentove~ $lOO~OOOwould the rate go higher. Mr. Hall said it : .-( would. McVeigh telt we were better off with the 4 per-" , ",--". centag~rpoints above the federal reserve rate. He asked ~rhat the floor was nO~AJ. Mr. Hall said it was 11-1/2%. McVeigh noted that that was 7-1/2% over the federal reserve 208 ----------------------- Page 381----------------------- o ..... 11 ,.... ..) I .l. '.::J rate. Mr .. Hall said he was in favor of the CS as put out by the Commerce C6mmittee. Chance asked if under ~xistin~. law you have 4 percentage harged in pOln~s, this would be 4 percentage points for everything. I state Mr. Hall said this bill would hold it at that Tbr every- thing less than $100,000. Chance said she objected to ICSHBL(9 that. This means there won't be any loans made less than $100,000. Banfield said she asked Mr. H~ll about· this before the meeting started. Mr. Hall asked if what they were saying meant that the bank couldn't loan at a rate sufficient to give the yield they· are looking· for that there will be no money flow into the sfualler areas. If you are trying to regulate the rate YOu will drive the borrowe~ outside. Chance said that wAs what she felt would .happen. There would be no money available for.loans under $100,000. Malon~ said there was an interesting point brought out in the interest rate hearings last year. He wanted to- ask Mr: Hall what are the practical problems involved .. t with· tying a floating i~ter~st rate to not the federal · reserve rate but to the interest rate paid on savings . I .in Alaslca. Wlr. Hall said the~i are reglll.8t:8:i on the I amount they can pay on savings and not what the true cost of money is. If you try to regulate Hhat the bank is going to charge to what we are payipg out on savings then you have a possibility of· eliminating us from the .( loan area. If you are paying 5% on savings and you say · we are only going to be able to charge 7% then ~e will not be able to make any loans. Malone said that all the banks would be set--pay so much interest on the money deposited in th2m. Mr. Hall said there is a.limit on that. Malone said this was true but that it bears no relation to the interest rate charged. Mr. Hall said they ifJere regulated by laTH and have to pay 2 pOints above what we get the money for. Malone asked what the federal. policy on the rate paid on savings or deposits .in-the· bank entailed. Vlhatis its purpose·andhow does it work? Mr . Hall cormnented on the rates .... He said-you have·your · thrift institutions paying maybe 7%. This is in either long-term or housing loans. Over the years this gap has narrowed. There is very l~ttle difference between savings and loan the mutual savings and the banks. There is a competitive factor. You would go broke. Malone asked if this would stabilize and protect banking. Malone asked if the deposits weren't the source of the monies lent. Mr. Hall said Yes. The banks cannot eliminate less than $100,000 loans because the money comes from the depositors. You h8.ve to accornIl1odate t~:'2 c-C'edi t needs in that area. YOL,. need the d2~ositors to CQn:~~~2 to have gro~t~. · McVeigh asked Mr. Hall whet his loan rates were. He said they were 9-1/2% and this is common. Good risk loans are less. McVeigh asked if he was able to charge 11-1/2%. He said that he was. He added that they didn't do this now, though. 209 ----------------------- Page 382----------------------- I Page 11 1 '3/1; Mr. Hall sai~.t~at some.banks would go.to'the ~igher ~ate.1 ~~:~ ~~~: ~i~!~0 ;~C~~:l~~o~~:~g~rh~sh~~~k:e~~~n~ofe~~Od ! '- . to .a higher. rate. I':reVeigl~ asked him if he had gone Oijer the maximum ori the big loans. Mr. Hall said No. He said v1terest. his bank can't hold that big of a loan; He said the best Charged In rate they could get in the Seattle area was11%. They CS. the state give us the money to loan. HB49 Orsini asked about the expiration date. Mr. Hall said this "was April lL~ -' 1975. Orsini mentioned the material . on page 1 -' . (g) where i tsays prepayment. Mr.· 'Hall s'aid they are required to make federally backed loans. 'They are going to put their money in for a particular period of time and they want the prepayment penalty to carry them over this period. Last year ~hey eliminated this --from paying the penalty. Orsini asked what portion of loans he made were federally insured. Mr. Hall said they don't hold any of those : loan3 ~, They. p("'ocessed $30,,000 -,000 T;ITOI'th 13.3t year'.~ Orsini~a3k2d what por~~on of th~t was ~om~loans~ R~. ~ay all or it was. Malone asked who sets the interest rates-~what federal ~gency. Mr.' Hall said .this was the Federal Reserve Board. Malone also wanted to knowhow they determined what inter- . est banks should pay--what are the factors to be used. c. Mr. Hall said he didntt knov.r .. Stability of the economy would be one consideration. This board is the monetary V arm of the government. He felt it was mostly based on' small growth and a historical pattern. If a bank were extremely profitable--then they could increase the savings rate by 1%. Malone aske~ what that rate was now. He said it was 5% on savings now. Banfield asked if certificates were regulated--those und~r $lOO~OOO. Mr. Hall said.they-hadpaid up to 9-1/2%. 1:'" Malone asked if there was a separate in~erest charged ..._._____ ._ .. __ ...... _ ......c_._ ..on_loans-in_Alaska . depending ..upon ·whetherthey"are-'big---"'-"'-:-'- or small. Mr. Hall said in his bank they used a guide- line listing a basi~ rate. He said they modified that on the compensating balances--this' is in their branch. They bave not made a 10% loan in the last six months. It ranges from 7-1/2 to 10%. R~ndy wanted to know what th~ difference would be on political situations. He .satd' Mr. Hall t·alked about connections Viith the federal I ...... reser.ve. What different considerations enter into their setting of the real discount rate. Mr. Hall said this . was strictly.a motiv~to~'of the economy. Berry said he also mentioned po1itica~ considerations. Chance asked if we repealed paragraph (e) and dele_ted '. the language trbefore April 14 -' 1975T! then ~'Tould we end up with the previous rate in existing law unt~l some future change by ~he legislature. Are these provisions adequate--4-1/2 percentage points for contractors on 210 ;, . ----------------------- Page 383----------------------- Page 12 i-4 family dwellings. She asked Mr. Hall if that gave him ad·2qU3.te· int':~r2st . iV~~, ~3.11s.'lid_ that at 'today t:3 i I into some problem with th2 larger loans. Chance asked again if 4-1/2 percehtage points above would not be I enough. He said it wasn't. Ma.lone asked about the general philosophy--instead of CSHB49 the federal reserve discount rate why not tie it to the amount that the banks are allowed to pay on their savings accounts or on their deposits. Mr. Hall said that this legislation ~ill not tell the bank what they c~n pay_ The rates are determined by taking the earnings from assets or on loans. He said Hhat we were going·to do is stifle the economy and the profits of the bank. The regulation of the interest rate doesn't hurt the bank on a short term basis, but it ~oes hurt the borrower$ The banks will have to be' able to make loans in order to serve their customers. \\]2 have to have a range in the rates in order to do this. There ~re competitive rates· in Alask~. Malone asked if he ~e~nt that hecouldn't a -' '::lo:rco "i.Tl·..!.-h -V>:::'-"IJl ";-l·""'·...... +-'n . ...,...,.;-,:::,.,...,cc+- "Y>r...Las cha""""""~d l"Pr ct.o '-'-- 'I' U - .l.·-b---c:;.v- lib v_~_.., ~~!.'..I._!. '._0 v J.. O,I.I\:.. . L! .L·be. tIL. Hall said that was correct . . McVeigh said that it s~emed to him highly unlikely that under present law allowing 4 to 4-1/2 percentage pointa above the federal reserve discount rate would not cause any hardhips. Mr.- Hall said this was only to a hank V and it is a one--day loan. l lcVeigh asked if it wasn't part of their policy to fluctuate their rates--this is to keep in step with the cost of money. Mr. Hall said this either' makes money available or it dries it up. Most banks don't use this rate to borrow. They use federal funds with banks loaning to banks. If you are in the federal window they Will tell you to get out and then you have the bank examiners all the t~me. McVeigh said he'thought he ~nder­ stood Mr. Hall's position. If you limit the banks their may cornea time when theY._won~t_be able to get money for the customers.' The most you can ~harge is 11-12/%. There". you will put it '\ivhere.you can get 12% .... That isn!t._. in Alaska. How realistic is that? H~s it ever happened? Mr. Hall sa.id Yes this did happen for a short period of time .. Chance moved 'that we have a CS that repeals (e) and delete the language nand before April 15, 1975tf from 45.45~OlO(b)(1) and (b)(2) plus the effective date ·clause. Then we would be deleting reference to a repealer. \AJe ~AJould have in effect, then" the. rate mechanism that we hav~ now. Malone said he didn't 1'13."\le any oojectj_on to that. t-L2 sald h::: di-:::1n tt obje::;t t to t~king rapid a6tion on the bill~ but he wanted to f. explore some other things on this. 211 ----------------------- Page 384----------------------- Chance said the reason she \.'ras sugge3ting h':::~ 3.;TI::Dc:m2nt was th~t we are going to have a problem with that date' ~. n t e.('2::) t cODing ··up soon. SlL~ said 8I:2 also had a p2dolem 1;'iith ~·'L/C;harged in trying to deal with a great deal or speed and not enough the state deliberation on the CSHB from Commerce. Orsini said he CSHBl~ never .got his information. Orsini said that last year the banks said they would get some information ready for us at the start of this year. tve don f t have that yet. Mr. Hall said the monetary committee prepared a report. Nick Veroske,from Commerce Committee,said that all legislators .had received a copy of this report. The cow~entsare there in the report .. There are pro and con comments conce-rning the present usury law.· There is also information submitted to the Commerce Committee by the banks in a confidential .survey... When the maximum allowable rate was 10% at th~t time--July-~A study of rat~s of October after the maximum rat~ had gone to .11-12/% showed that in .a few cases--in th~ee cases the' banks went heavy on charging loans at the maximum rate. All othel'S, the banks Kepc the rate belo~'r the maxi.p.um rate .. Chance restated her previous motion. ·Mr. Hall suggested inst~ad of modifying this bill that there is another bill that could do that.· Banfield said the other bill didn It quite cover the same thing. She asked ho~r many were in favor of Chance'S motion. Malone said he was in favor of having it come before the committee. Banfield· said that R.andy would prepare a committee substitute for the Judiciary Committee. legislative HB 766- Legislative confirmation of appointments. confirmation Banfield said we had deleted reference to soecial sessions. of appts. Additional language was. added onltl1.~.16.JTafterthe HB766 appointment is ma~de.ff. Orsini said he had' no objection to the CS. Malone moved and. asked unanimous consent that we report out CSHB 766 and sign .it ..wlttL..Sl __ lfDo Pass ll ...._.'. .........----.....--.-.-.re-cbmmerfdation·: There-'-~Tas -rio objection and the bill was signed out. Banfield, McVeigh, Chance> Beirne, Orsini and Malone all signed liDo' Pass IT. licensure HB 576 - Licensure of nurses. Banfield said that a:~CS .....~f nurses had been prepared for this bill. After checking it HB576 ·,over.) McVeigh moved and asked unanimous -consent. th'at the CS be reported out with a liDo Pass tt recommendation. AllpresE?nt 'signed trDo Pass 11 • ~nn~nn~~~~~o~~ B~nripl~ l~~~~p~tc.d a bill an an.J.p~op_riatinns for Jaw • J.; lJ 1;4l...!... ._' i...~."- ..-L. _' .. 1..1 ~ .!. 1. U "''''-- - - ...- ..... -'-\o.'-A.. ..., -. '- ~ "- - .\.., _ _ -'" .1..0 fa::' l::::,:; 6: order anc1 order that had been pre~)3..{)ed. (HB'802) She sa.id Tillion has suggested that instead of introducing ~ / bill ,,'Ie should just wri te to ·the finance corm-ni ttee .and .' U tell them l~That we recommend they do. Chance said she would much p~efer say this in a bill. That makes it a public recommendation from the committee as a ~vhole. ?l,) ----------------------- Page 385----------------------- p~~p ltl - - --L.)' ~. j/19 'Banfield askRd if this was ~ motion fora Do Pass recomm0~iati0n fo~ a CO~~1~tt2e bill. Chan~e said it ! ~as. There wusno obj2c~ion and this bill was signed .out.· All membeI',3 signed /fDo .Pass IT • I Banfield said there was a resolution that was pr~sented . to the committee. It is congratulation Reggie Joule on Congratula- his athletic accomplishments. Beirne moved and asked ting Reggie urtanimous consent that we introduce this resolution and Joule recommends a, "Do Pass rr • There was no obj ection. , The HCR84 resolution was Signed out liDo Pass n unanimously. (HCR 84) There ~as another piece of legislation relating to I gambling that was prepared for this committee.. flIalone said this came from. the report the minority have been working on on the criminal. justice investigation. Banfiel· credit to said if 1\]"e were going to have a law on gambling she didn It gambler see anything wrong with it. (HB 801) McVeigh objected RBBOII say~ng that you were making a felony out of permitting . credit to a gambler. -He said this wouldin61ude. the· : Elks Club. Banfield asked if Judiciary should intro- i I 'cude this bill. The CCITll!littee ,,'ras _agreeable to incro-- ducing this bill. i HB-123- Equal ri~hts le~islation. Banfield said Randy t equal rights and worked with her on this and made it into a good bill. legislation HB 12 ( She said they took out everything that pertained to the (CS) handling of liquor~' B--girls and prostitution. This L/ cleans up the language so there is no differentiation between men and women as far as the laws are concerned. Beirne moved and asked unanimous consent to report out the CS for HB 123 with a "Do Pass" recommendation. This bill was Signed out. Banfield, McVeigh, Chance, Beirne, Orsini, and I'llalone Signed "Do Pass Tf ~ Meeting adjourned at 5:22 p.m. 213 ----------------------- Page 386----------------------- HOUSE J UD..:..CIAn.y C()~,,1r.II7TEE MINUTES OFF THE MEETING 3/2· Wednesday, March 20, 1974 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to orde~ at 3:08 f p.m .. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present ~; were Malone~ Banfield, Tillion, Chance and Orsini. There were two witnesseS who wanted to be heard on sound HB 680 - Protection of the rights of owners of sound I recordings recordings.. They were both in favor of this legisla- HB 61. tion.. l"Ir. George ~'iehmhoff from Anchorage and Mr .. ! Black~,mithfrom Seattle ansvTered que'stions of the 'committee. Mr. Wehmhoff said that those in the music 1 industry need to protect the works of artists and rnusiciani who produce the music. This is also to protect the state~ in obtaining revenue from legitimate , ,wholesaling outfits or organizations. You also protect th~ public from buying inferior merchandise. He said that tapes are easily copied.- They will tap::; ihem ahd hold them until a song becomes a hit and~hen they will flood th~ maiket with these tapes. 'There are no r6yalties paid and nothing goes toward sustaining the lliuBlc industry. They are in effect stealing music and songs 'from the artists' and selling them. - Mr. Wehmhoff said that 22 other states have passed legislation of this' type. There is a federal law but it has been ineffective. There aren't enough FBI men 'to take care of the situation. He told about one operator ~'lho got 'rbusted~f. He was in Califo~nia and had operations in 11 states. That is how extensive this can get. This affects many personally' and cuts down on· the sale of goods he may be selling. (Malone left at 3:10) Banfield asked if this was limited to tapes. George said it mainly was tapes because it is harder to duplicate, records. It takes much more sophis-· tfc'cited equipment. Banfield said she a lot of ,this kind ___ .,_. ----------------'-o.f--·equipment--'being---advertised. George said this was . - all right. Tillion said this is legal as long as you don't sell the tapes. George said it was all right just as long as they were not selling illegal tapes. The industry ,sells a lot of t~is type of equipment. This is .for,yo~r o~n-personal use and then there is no problem. , Tillion noted (1) on 'line 26. \-'That about tap1ng things o -Po';" 'OY'O~C1A::1c.t: hIT ,~i!n""'!=l+-;:""''''''I '(">::lrl-io ;:)n,4 fjF\T G20riJ ._ s2-_':ld ..c:...t.. - _'" ..... \..J.---.,...J 'J -"""#J .........J.t..d.\...j._V.J-V:"I.C'.._ - ,J..._"."":,,•• '_ .-"'_ U - I. - f - 0- ~~ that line 23 exempts ,t~em- He sald-.that late night shoijis, tape their' programs, in advance. 1;Ie aren T t trying to ham- ( per their industry. In Anchorage the broadcasters· went over this bill' and said-it was all right. Banfield sa~d the tapes still couldn't be sold. 214 ----------------------- Page 387----------------------- j Page 2 .13/20 I i I happening .. George sa d he can sho0 them type~ of tap2S , ! . from' Juneau. He had some sample tapes. He said you could find this same box with several dif- recor.dings ferent addresses on the back. The legitimate tapes HB 68 tell you where it is recorded. They also show copy- rights, etc. He showed on of the copied tapes, which . "L'lould cost $1.99 on the market and then sho~'led the . original legitimate tape_ It would cost about $12.99 on the market. McVeigh asked how the scheme worked~ A persori would buy a bunch of cartridges or boxes of blank tapes and then. this person woUld go out and buy. one of the ~eal good original tapes. The individual' would then fill all the bl&~k tapes from the original legitimate tape'and sell it. George said they could ·run sQme of these tape machines taping several at a time ..One of.these people was taping 200 per day. It is an inferior product, too~ McVeigh asked if the owners weren't under some kind of obligation to 1 say where their tapes came fro~. What about sta~e I: shipment of these tapes? George said there are federal laws that were passed in 1971. The people involved in federal are investi- gating and preparing for investigations but they are . limited in numbers. of people. VJe Houldlike to kno\"T why they don't do more. There are a number of other states asking the same thing. George said one of the reasons that this flourishes is that they can sell these at the corner drug store because the merchant wants to get some of the profit~· They gamble that they call sell the goods befor~ they get caught. George said they had' sent out many mailings to everyone in the retail trade explaining what these tapes are. ~ve' explain not, only what this does to the customer when he·finds out he has an inferior tape but also what it does to the music outlets themselves .. Most music stbres don't deal in'these tapes. Orsini asked how much ~ blank cartridge cost. George said - it '''vas between 1.98 to 3.29 depending on the brand. Tillion noted if they bui them in quantity they could even get them for less. IvfcVeigh noted that this vTould not Dnly effect the person that produces and sells to ! the drug store but also get the drug 'store that ·sells . . I t . 7 the tapes. ~~e asked GeorGe D0 /J the drug store ffia:1.a.gers would know if they were legitimate ta~es or not--are they boxes marked in some way? George asked to presen~ a written document showing how you can spot bootleg tapes. McVeigh wanted to know if there was anything distinguishing about a legitim2te tape. Rethought may- be we could say that no merchant may sell or advertise 215 I' ----------------------- Page 388----------------------- I i . t Page 3 l3/20 · for 3~12 tapes or r2cord~ng equip~2nt th2~ does~r~ have a copyright mark O~ th2 box. If,the copierfs sound have paid for the copyright it would be marked. on the cartridge. . ~cordings HB680 Mr. Chuck Blacksmith said this was a good question. He said what they hav~ found in the last several years i.f they have put the ,copyright mark on the tape itsel.f. For the person who would just go in and buy Dne, they wouldntt know.' No states have addresses themselves to this problem. Oregon and Washington have a statute 'just like this. Chuck said he had asked the FBI ir this was covered by the copyright law and got no sound anS\'ler. That is why we are having to do this state by state. I The only thing about it, each state has the right to . do it dif.ferent. It really gets right down to where the Justice Department has directed the FBI to ~earch out and .find the duplicators.. They have .found 75,000 blank tapes and sever hundred of.thous~nds of dollars ·worth of tape. Inttle me2.ntilae· the s'i. tuation· has .run. t. rampa!1t.· The confusion at this time seeinsto ···lea.ve·' i just enough' latituteto go ahead and pursue t.he selling 'j .' ('\.p 1-~n.::l!C: 1-f'"\f-ho nnhl-in (.!..~Y\-:-''Y>r"\11"r r"\ C-l---nQ +- ..... ""'~ "j.-....,.,. +-'h~ j __ ·V~1:'V'''''''' ""'- V-"'4'- J:.I ......... "'-'-=--'-'Oo.J. ""''''-.l1.'-'':'''~-L..-1-J <-t... 0/-'-.;";'-" vup\.;. J..../,j V.L.l\:;'; bootlegger would be selling in the legi~imate market for $5.98. McVeigh said he was thinking in terms of enforcement. He thought .~t ·would be ~asy to go into a tape store or' drug store and look at the tapes. Ask them to show the invoice or place of origin and trace it back from there. He said he thought this was a good bi11. Tillion said p~ople will continue to copy becau~ethe penalty isn't too great. George said they didn't have the answer to that problem. Chance asked i.f any·' of the bootleg fapes had 'a copyright " . · mark on the tape. Chuck said they did .. The industry. _... ·_.··__ ··_·_··--ha.s·--decided·--to·--·put--a·up n circled 'but the-people··usually-:""'.. put UCH circled. This has been an 'amendment in the industry in the last few years. George said he didn't think this was 'on t'he tapes prior to the enactment of' the f~deral legislation. He said'he could be wrong. This would identify' the tapes. ,Tillion noted the sord Hknovlinglytr was in the bill ... George said they felt everyone should be giveri a warn- ing. Chuck said that was also the reason for publishing the brochure. This was distribated.to all those doing business in the field. Orsini felt that the word should be change~ i~ the ~~xt. He felt it should be before ltsells lf • Tiilion said \'le should wait until Randy comes. On line 18 it talks about a first offense and second ;! ! '-::~ o.ffense but doesn't mention any subsequent offenses. George said that ,was a ·very good point. I I 216 , t, ----------------------- Page 389----------------------- Page· 4 sound Chance said that merchants were not going to knowingly re C oraj. ng ,~~ keep. repeating th2t, Banfield asked if we wanted to include discs. Tilliori noted that the Dregon statute had that. Chuck thought it might be a good ·idea to include it in· this bill. This would cover the video tane situation. Chance noted that this bill didn1t s~y any~hing about tapes it just mentions sound so that wo~ld include both or any other things that might be developed. Sh~ did think ,,'Je should .change flkno'lJinglylf. Banfield repeated Orsini's amendment for Randy. He felt it wouldn't hurt to put it before trreproductionslT. The committee decided to prepare a CS. Banfield moved and asked unanimous·con~ sent that a CS be prepared and that we sign the committee report today wi th a "Do Pass TI recommendation.· There ~las no obj Bct·ion.. The bi·11 was signed out. . The amendment wa~ made on lines 12 and 18. reckless & SB 193 - Reckless and negligent driving. Tillion s~id i 3;319 ne.gligent HB 154 - Revocation of mo~or vehicle operato~ls licenses I dri'ri~g was being held in Senate Judiciary. S~ 193 ~oesn't cover what we put in that bill so he would like to I usc SB 193a3 the vehicle fur .tJa.~;:)lng HE 154. Bant"ie.ld I sugge~ted we plan on this when we get the bill. toilet HB·429 - Toilet accomodations in restaurants and taverns. ,. "t accomoda- The committee substitute expands the· requirement for ( tions toilet facilities to include public functions .. This HB· li2 c t~' would mean for fairs, dog races, etc., they would have ./ ~~ to provide some facilities. These CQuld be only the Rent-a-John just as. long as they provide something. Chance said this covers every type of toilet facility just as long as one of the types is available. Bob . Hartig drafted the CS. McVeigh asked livhat the definition l/TaS for fltavernff. He· thought this would ~e a place where you sell beer. and wine only. Randy checked the statutes for the definition there. McVeigh- felt -this- should be·defined -.-.. -.. -~. the same way it·is in the alcoholic beverage section .. Chance said she thought this covered all types of places. McVeigh felt it may be all- right. Chance recomrnended that the OS for HB 429 be adopted by the committee and moved and asked unanimous consent that it be reported out wi th a rrDo Pass fJ recorr~'TIendation. There was no objection. anima1s CSHB 428 - Health certificates and evidence of o~nership ~ran3Dorted for a~im~~~,t~~~s~?~~e~~~~O~~d~~~S~~r~~~~O~~ s~~~e ~~r~!~ 3 y s t 2 rn . 1 -'-- ..L l-L. (Hl ~ c~ -L Q IJ .!.Il- u l- J ....; '-'_.::-- P u - L, e u. 0 .y v ':"1:::; C G.. v t,- '::! -- CSHB men. They are noting stolen stock being transported . into Alaska. They also are aware of certain diseases L~28 among such animals. McVeigh said he was thinking about the person with a dog. He said you donlt have to show certificates of ownership on planes for your dog or cat. Tillion said this just applied to the ferry. 217 ----------------------- Page 390----------------------- i 13120 Page 5 I 1 r'" >~ r}~......, -l ,-, .. ,-.......~ ,g. ~!.:_, ,,'.".·l~ 'f-.' ,>~..··.·,I~ ::'! .-_: .~.'l '. i .r. ) ~l, ~/- ,c..: !.~~~ 1" .. ; r,· -~ --""'"l"'-' , ...... ••... 1 ~,) "'""!'J ..... ..;.~ ~~ 1..... . t '...I~I..~~4.L~_·~:;.: ,~--- ~~-- ..- ..... v_~ --- (~I.. '-.'-L6 ~) ..:"'·,J)~":""--Lll~ ~'I_:...t/~.J 1.J.O~~':::'1.3 ... Especially this refe~red to the irr.porting of horses. ing animals The market w~nt down and pretty soon they started U ferry bringing them up by the truckload. Epidemics of disease follo1Hed. When the Corrurrissioner of Resources 429 was called he said he was surprised that the-agency had rto way of quarantining them. ' I i Randy said the arilines ask for a health certificate . , when you change p~anes bu~ he didntt know about the i ownership part. Tillion asked what that would be-- a bill of,sale--but who gets a bill of sale on a dog that somebody gives you. Banfield said Hor other documentation of the'animalfs ownership. McVeigh said this indicated for small house- hold animals you would have to get papers of ownership . . Randy felt we should be able to exdlude small pets. Tillion said he objected to·the sectiori on ownership. 'He'asked ~ho had a cert~ficate of o~nership for dogs i or cats. In reference to h8rses and cattle this was ·1 uriderstandable"but for dogs and cat~~-~t doesn't seem' , necessary. Chance noted there are a lot·of'places. w6ere·, t 'you do not have to license your dog or cati Banfield· '. thought the officials should accept anything that showed proof of ownership. Randy said he didntt think there was much of a problem ."t-\lith cats and dogs but 1iith large c· ,'and valuable animals there would be ~apers usually. -0 Tillion said he had no quarrel with the health certificate. Banfield suggested that we leave the certificate of owner- ship out of the bill. Randy further suggested that we . could exempt small pets. Tillion noted that a rabies tag doesn't show ownership. He said there is already a law against changing brands. Banfield moved to strike out "evidence of ownership". Rangy "tvill prepare a CS covering the health certificate problems~ , . . . . • __ • __ •_____ .~ _. ____ w •• __ ~_._.__ •• ____ ---...___ ••• _ •• _"._._ ••_. ·carryihiK.. ·of··----Ti1-lion"'saf2C-we··:·ha-Ci.·HB 633 - Carrying of' firearms in place firearms licensed to sell intoxicating liquor. Banfield wanted to leave that on the Table. Tillion said this was ·a sponsor substitute. No further discussion was held on this ,measure. Meeting a,.dj ourned at 4: 20 p. m. 218 ----------------------- Page 391----------------------- HOUSE JUDICIARY COM1'1ITTEE I0711 ..J...,./ I • Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:15 I· p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present I were Orsini~ Tillion, Banfield, and Berry.' . . fJIr. Snowden was present for this meeting so the chairman' asked ·him if he had any cOrJ.J.~ents on HB 796 - .Imposition Life sentence of life sentence~ He said he was against legislation HB 796 changing rules of the court by statute. They would .. prefer this to be done by resolution. The Supreme ·Court.has already stated its position on mandatory sentencing to the committee.' In the case of' a burglar . it might be a first-timer. Bru'1:field said she recognized . how the court feels about this.. This bill shows how the legislature feels about the departments changing' c things by. regu1ation :or not .doing what, the· people: say' they· want the~.to~ do~ . Nr.Snowden.said that~· the 'Chief Justice had announced .today· ·that.;. there is a ne-;'!' criminn.l· rtll~s· co:tn..'1littCG. started with·. the ex-.:attorney general George· Haynes as the head'..... There;' are,'a· mixed·number of people. on this' ·.committee• .-.,Theyhave· been. asked to look 'intoplea bar--.:,:,·" gaining!).bai:l,.. and major' questions ,that confront.:the'· . court" today ~ ... :for instance> sent'encing •. · (Malone' arrived ". 3 :.20) He said that committee will be considering' the above- questions and ·will send in their recommendations ..- He wantedtne:committee to know that the courts are·, sensitive· to the voice" o:f the people as well as the. voice- of the legislature. Banfield said she vlas looking fortvard to the completed s~udy on sentencing. 'Mr~_ Snowden' mentioned a bill~ HB 782 Ele6tions> on Election of' election of judges. If the bill isn't-passed. a number' ,Judges" of elections could be invalidated. HB782 Tillion turned the· discussion back to HB 796 -Life :Life sentence '.. .imprisonment and felt- that we could probably get the HB 796 27votes~necessary' tom~~e·this section 'mandatory. We got 21 votes on the, death penalty. Orsini made' an amendment to that on the floor--that 11as to include the multiple murder. 'The only ones included in this bill wo~ld be the homocidal maniac or gangland killer. Orsini didn't· think this bill ,covered the multiple mur- derers but· Tillion said they 1'1111 get off' for reasons '. of··insani.ty .1i'fhich' means they ~'iill get-'a li.fe· sentence .. . . There'was s6me discussion about· (~) •. Tillion thought it was good to have it in. It will take a separate set or regulations if we are g?ing t6 keep them incarc~rated forever. -219- ----------------------- Page 392----------------------- f 3/21." . I Malone moved to report this bill QutTtlith a ttDo Pass" I I 1""2COnl.T-.2r;,dation. E3-796 -;dEJ.0 si.6:"":.;~d ou.t.' \ I , ' . HB 497 - Inter~st rates charged in the state. Nick Veroske :J' Representative' Dick Randolph t s assistant ~' 1 InMest rates testified in favor of CSHB 497. Nick said that last charged in year he had worked v.li th the monetary commi ttee in the state Anchorage. He felt the cOffil'uittee should know that what they do to this bill will .have a significant effect on Alaska's future. Orsini asked about the repealer.' Nick said it w·as the expiration date .. 'Tillion said that we had a Commerce Committee substit'ute and a Judiciary Committee substitute. We will start wi thCorn..lUerce.. Or'sint .wanted to kno~\J if 1,'}e . should . accept which CS we \iv-ere going to use before we continue our discussiori.Tillion said we had ·talkedthis over 'pretty thoroughly and R&"'1dy had prepared our CSfrom .: those discussions... B,anfield noted thatf/Irs . Chance's motion had de'leted the expira.tion date 'and all reference· ;. to it ... Til1ion said we ,left e-verything else 2:ttached .... ," to the federal reserve rates. Orsini s~id there'was a I, floating ceiling only on the 1-4 family __dwellings.' Is f "that;· righ'C"t Tillion'said No.. Berry said the OS makes existing law permanent. It doesn't have, a dollar ,ceiling.. " Orsini· asked about the difference betw'een '1-4 family , ',dwellings and commercial real estate. He 1Alanted to know /' about equipment or things like that. Randy said - it "vas \ all the same. Til1ion said it covers everything. It ,only attaches it to the f~deral reserve rate. The"person that has to get 14% money just isn't going to be able to get it in Alaska. Mr~ Fink had said 'that if· it had never changed those with good ratings would still be getting 8% monei." Mr. Borer from Cordova told uS that> too. Tillion, said ,that NBA can borro~'l money 'outside -'and loan it out at greater percentage and in this manner bring 'i·-.moneyinto the state. . Tillion said it is necessary to· , remove the date or the banks would let just their deposit, 1 ---·--runQsoTit----at--a~TfirswbTilare-aVe-~6nly-tTI'e..--Ifre'fe rred---' '--,-,---' customers.' ' .. .' . . 'Malone said, he 1Qas·'not satisfied ,,'lith what the 'legislature did last year on this. He said he ,had some reservations ,&bout'taking, out the repealer. It is not the intent to ,c.a,use ppqblems for people who want to get loans .. ", He· said 'h~ 'would r'ather see this broken down on a dollar limit ~ ff:you are going to break it down. Tillion said the ori'ginal'·bill set everythin'g at 12% for under $100, 000. aalon~said h~ didnft like to talk about 'non-real estate~ ,real. estate ,a~~ 1-4 family dT/vellings .. ' .The Orl2 that 'calle out' 'of' Commerce set" the .limit at $100 -,000. , -22.0- ----------------------- Page 393----------------------- ·13/21l ,.t'age .:$ I .. .I Tillion said that under this 2.:J.ount can T t go oirer four { ,t percentage points ~bOV2 tje f2d2r~1 resarV2 ra~2. . j i .",., , ' IHE 49T Til1ion said that is the one that Commerce ComIni ttee .,/ wanted. 'Banfield noted that this bill next' goes to Interest rates Finance. Tillion s~id that the Judiciary CS doesn't. i charged in, ,give anything away except it removes the date. He said the state he didn't think that interest rates would go down. I Orsini said we might also have a higher inflation rate because of the pipeline. Tillion agreed,that there is I going to be a money ,crunch period. He said he .would i ,let the committee decide whether- they \'lanted to put , I 'this bill out. Malone moved and askedrinanimous consent , 1 'to report out J~diciary, CS for HB 497 with individual , recommendations. Tl;iere was no obj ecti'on, so the bill v.las signed out. Tillion', Orsini and Banfield signed nNo rec ff ;rlIalone signed ffDo Pass rr • There i;\}'as brief discussion of hB 310":'" Designa.ted use 310 ~l:,a:!.ls and ,of trails, bridle paths an.d footpaths. 11- con1..rni ttee 'substitute had been prepared. There >;'ias a problem ~\}'i th deciding on incompatible uses.. Ors-ini moved ' 'that we report out CSHB 310 with a Do Pass recommenda- tion. Orsini, Tillion, and :Malone signedTT.Do Pass If ; Banfield signed nNo rec ff • The next subject for discussion was HB 705 - Home rule \. city bonded indebtedness incurred for school construction~ HB 705 lVlalone said he would like to help small corn.illunities in 30nded indebt. this way. Tillion said that Co~munity and Regional -:11001 cons. Affairs had some amendments. Tillidn thought this was· better language. Malone moved to report HB 705 with ~. CR&A amendments with a nDo Pass" recommendation. ·It·· was noted this would add first-class cities.' Tillion said they didn't want t6 add boroughs. Banfield said ·.'1 we didn't have that many first-class ·cities ..There was ,,'c . some question about first class boroughs have the ·same._, , ___,~__ ,___ .___·_____._needs,._.orsinLhad__ a__ question_._He ..._wap.tecL__ .to,:.kno~I,__ i:L..the_~______,' __, , , first-class city can't,pay the bond then the state does, ' , ,it for them. Tillion said it was more like the'stat~ gives tl?-e guarantee that the bond ~Till be paid.' They, ~ , also have the power to. levy for the payment of the debt.' It is like co-signing a note. Malone felt they were l:ef'erring to the things COElIIlOn to home rule cities. ,Ifl;:, there is' iIllillediate need to do something about issuing a bond for a school-~they can pay it off but their charter s.ays they can't sell "the bonds. rlfalone moved to withdraw hi"s previous motion and moved that the c.oIrlllli ttee have a', , CS prepared incorporating the amendment of CR&A and that the Judiciary CS 02 reported 01.:t HDo Pass" Ther2- 'lias no' objection and Tillion, Banfield, and Nalone signed rrDo Pass!T; Orsini signed IINo rec". HB 782 - Elections. The part th~ Supreme Court wanted of was on page 3, (10) line 10. The court will have to end HB 782 :Judges up in court and rule against thems~lves if this isntt -221- I ----------------------- Page 394----------------------- [3/21 I P~ge .4 .. I t2~2n C2r2 o~·. Art ?2tsr50~ d~d ·203t or t~2 draftin~ I on this bill. Orsini said they wen~ over it in State Affairs and it seemed to be a good bill. Malone moved to report out HB 782 with a r:Do PassTf recommendation and asked unanimous consent. There was no objection. OrsIni will carry this bill on the Floor. Tillion, Malone, Orsini and Banfield all signed TlDo PassH. HB 387 -Alaska Historic Preservation Act. Tillion said Alaska Hist.· he had been asked to take this uP_. Orsini asked if we -IRB .3871' PreseriT. Act .had a state archeologist. TiIlioD said that we did. . ·1 . Orsini noted that in section 9, on page 4 it takes out fTkno~viriglyu.. This is also on line 29. T·illion didn f t I ·see any reason for that in the bill. They will.confis- cate the article and not pay you .. This is. noted ~n . I 41.35.121 and deals with the composition of the Historic S'ites Advisory Committee. Tillion said that archeologists \vork·. only with bones. Banfield said we should -keep· in.'. ~ind the archeologist is under the Deoa~tmentof Natural Res'ources~' 'l"Ialone moved the put out HE· 387 '';'Ji tn a ITDo ,.' O Da·~srt·recommQnd:q~;on . r1'n· 'V'>Q ;.~ .... YlO O'O~::::r.-'--!or.· lr1-il'ion·· .!..",. U.. .a.L.li. "-_!. ~f...l~• ..:._. ..L.l _.!-. __ /,i--...ti J.J.o J ........ \..jLr...L .. t. .L...L....L...L_"';':1 Halone:J and Banfield signee. nDo Pass tr; Orsini 'signed llNo rec H. Meeting.' adj ourned at 4:32p.m. ('.• , I ·\'--L) -':.:.." " I'. -. -222- ----------------------- Page 395----------------------- 3/22 '1 HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE I MINUTES 07 ~2~ M~~TING I Friday~ March 22~ 1~74 I Chairman Tillion called tD.2 meeting to order at 3:11 I I.· p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion~ McVeigh, Banfield, Chance, Malone, and Berry. The first item for consideration was HB 345 -Real es~atebrokers and salesmen. Tillion said that the Real estate· Commerce Corumi ttee CS 'was signed out i1i th a·unanimous ibrokers and "Do Pass fT re COTlli11endat ion . Chance wanted to kno~'i how 'salesm.en section 2 read in the statutes now. ;,- Tillion said there was an attorney in Anchorage ~Tho was angry because we don't take the license away from them. Chance asked for an explanation between" the original bill and the CS~ Tilli'on-:said there 1\iaS a" ch2.nge on. line 10 it/here it says' "shall If. Lines 25 ·and 26--~\[e re~'irote -lines 25 and 26 .. This VIlas intended in the original bill but i t't\ras difficult to try and enforce it. Page 2~ lines 23 and This limits activity--engage only one broker. There :1s one company in Anchorage that has four brokers. In this case all four vlould be liable. This limits it to one broker being the responsible broker and the rest would be salesmen. On the last page, 'line 18 on down. This comes under the part of. the la",T' that exerripts thosen01 subject to the law. . Chance asked what about the .bankS.. . .... Tillion said banks "'Tould be exempt.. Chance asked about ." . what would be the case if she wanted to rent her house. Banfield asked what is covered in section 8.. If a per- .. . son fails to take an examination after' paying the appli .... ·' cation. fee, it will cost a~Qut$25 to refund half of the· ,,' :fee. Presently.,) they refund all of the amount.. One of ......____~.... _....._._ ......___ ..._____.__t he -..re al.._e s tate . rep re sent at i.ve s . sald_.this. i s to .. e ndeavor...____ .__._~~_._ not to cost the state s"o much money.. He' also stated that most of this language is housekeeping~ The big change would be .in .section 1 on the full;.....time executive. We will take care of this work. Ma16rie asked about present law and the proposed bill. The Drily' case whe're a person l,'lould· have to be licensed to .". s~11 his own land would be if he was selling out-of-state subdivisions. This 'is in the Uniform Land Sales Practices Act-. . . r'lcVeigh moved and. ask2d unanimous COrlS2nt that ,,"re reyort 'out CSHB 345 with a liDo Passu recoITLrnendation. There was no .objection. Tillion, Malone, Chance, McVeigh,' Banfield, 'and Orsini s.igned "Do Pass tf on' the COIllillerce COrrLrnittee Substitute for House·Bill No. 345. ----------------------- Page 396----------------------- 3/22 Page 2 I i HB 335 - Alienownershi0 of l~nd. 'Ch~nce ~sked to ,.fr'":'l . ) ~ ...•. i n 2. "\/2 ·tlt~ u ~r):':; ,3 ~i d2il. t <11 ~L ~~[l u d ~2 f i r:.i t ~i. c ~l. • 11.~{1(~Ly-:3 cti d L1·2 ;:-.1.0 .) _J :: I cha:1.ged this to read !tla~'jfully admi-cted for permane:1.t residence ft • The alien has to have declared his or her A=~l1 ~wnership intent~ not necessarily to become a citizen, but to (:>1 -Lan.e!. _ become a resident. There are a long series of non-, i~~igrant classifications. Chance asked if this term refers only to those coming into the country declaring that they ar~ going to be here permanently. Randy said they' didn't have to file a declaration of becoming a citizen. Chance thought that term should be changed . ·in. the bill. She was referring to the term If res ident alien 1f • ~lIalone 't~Tanted to kno'V'T if present lal;~T meant that you were a resident for' the purpose of becom~ng a citizen. Tillion said that's what we have now. Malone said he didn f t get that from 1'fhat Randy said. Tillion said that some people are bothered by people ~oming'here to ~vork for Bri.tish Petroleum. They' are only here as long as 'the offices are here. They can't buy land~-they ~'lould only be able to lease ~. :Qanfield said that could be '1.' 'a hardship. Tillion said you c~nrt buy land in Japan ir i, you are going' to be there for ten years. You 'can only I . lease and that's what this law is ror~ too. Malone , returned to "aliens' not entered for permanent residence" I . portion in the CS. Why not make it even narrower and, say aliens who are admitted for the.purpose of obtaining' (_ .. United States citizenship. , \, ......... Tillion s~id that what you have now since they changed V the law--you come under the first category. You are not eligible for citizenship until you have been here three years. You will screen out the Arabs this way . .Chance said you would also include ft Ishi,e If' that Iives here in Juneau. If he wants to sell his home he can't buy a new ,one. Banfield said that bothered her>,too. Tillion said he could own a new home--only it would' be on ieased land. . . . - - ,'- -~- Malone-aske~about-page-2,--line-7--of~-the-GS.-~-This~-s---'-,-'~-' ----~ about corporation and Malone ~lould like to have that .' explained. We always get into complications because of the nature of corporations.. We have a lot'of these. foreign corporations that aren't aliens. Randy said this "'las an attempt to cover the problem that you have· with a corporatibn that may be admitted to do business . here. Ownership may list some US citizens, some aliens>· or·· all. aliens. . This, is .an attempt to say which' ones are . subject to' the restrictions. If you pass this ~aw you . want to cover corporations. Having a group of'aliens irtcorpo~ati~g to"buy land--Ra~dy didnft-think you wanted" to go a~ far as to say something like the 51% rul~. Tillion said they had this with'radio licenses~, Malone asked if presently there was a,way of determin~ng ~ho own stock in the corporations. Randy said there is no way to teil the Citizenship of the members of a corpor- ation. -224- ----------------------- Page 397----------------------- J3/22 I .t'agej I Tillicn sqid that in radio licensing you h2ve to show lH3 335 ~ho OW~3 2verytni~g. ~alo~e said he w~s r~E0rring to corpora~icn3 who~e stock is o~ned by other corporati8ns~ I etc. Tillion said you should be able to determine this ! ownership from the Board of Directors. Chance asked how this would land affect t~? Japanese timber·operat~ons. Tillion said they I don't own the land. This ~s all leased land. They do own some of the canneries and the land under that. That is why· he things you need the grandfather clause: .. In Sitka they .also own the land. Banfield asked about the Yukon-White Pa~s Railroad.··· I' .. ~vhat if they yvant to expand their docks?. If they had to buy more land, they \'louldn' t· be able to doit. . Tillion • said they wouldhav~ to take a 55-year lease. Malone asked "tvhere the grandfather clause section "tvas in the bill.· .~ ... Chance asked about the sur7iving spouse and children. It seems .youwould have a constitut~onal problem of refusing them the right to inherit the rights to the land. Tillion said this stated tTalieris--notlaNfully admitted'Y. Spouse and heirs can be living.with them and the property can be in the alienfs name--:-they would ·not be able to inherit. Banfield didnrt think that it . said that. Randy said it ~'Jas intended to recapture ·land in the same T.J-.Tay the grandfather clause. in that it catches land the second time around. If it is ·under the grandfather clause now that ownership is all right.~. We don't want it to change hands again to somebody who wouldn't be able to buy it now. If they are persons who are able to buy land nO~\T ~ there is no problem . . Chance said you cover an heir lawfully admitted·for permanent residence and the person was the alien. Randy .said that maybe he should look at that ..It should cover both.. If you have~-the decedent v.Tould have been ________ .~_.__ ._____ '--_..___ ..only_ ho ldingland._.. unde r __ the__ grandfather_... c lause.__ ..._He. ________ ... ____ ..--- ..~.. ----- bought it. before--his heirs are also aliens not lawfully admitted, consequently, they wouldn't be able to buy the land. You are going to allow them to take it and hold it for this period of time. It is not intended to deprive them. If the person!s children were citizens it should go:·to·them.: Randy said he could clarify this.. It is ·hazy..... ~e said he would recommend adding surviving spouse . ·a.n.d.. survivors not lawfully admitted for.. permanent resid.enc,;!).,. He would make sure that if the spouse. and heirs are not . .otherwise able to buy. the land. Chance wants this put· . ~rt·th~re. Malone would like to have 50me language that· I' l'T .'"' 'u 1 (1 C 1 ~;l y> -i-- h'; s·· U'" 1\_:/_: ? ·_1 o· '_.-'1_. P ~ , ) ~.,-,. ~ ::::. -i-- e ~l i,\J P 1-: a'"' '_-,;- P u" i : I: H r. _i"' V'V' -"-'-'- .L~.~->-. lJ~l..L' 1::-" __ ~ 0L--66'~'"-'LJ U • ~ '-' _'-.... jCampaigns testified in favor of this legislation .. I Orsini asked about an advertisement. 'Th~s would be a particular campaign issue and a group could be :formed strongly supporting that issue. That grouptsexpenditur~s are not a part of the cand1date~·experiditures .. He said he takes issue with the phrasing. As an example he" might. say "Tudor Road should be a rour-lane highway"." '~ome other group would for~ a Tudor Ro&d Expansion Com- . mitt.ee ~ . There would be. a lot of advertising in this",' type of arrangement. Their fo~ming this group would be legal but it would in effect be suppo-rting me. Malone said there might be some problem ~n trying to cover everything. This covers only the candidate or his office. You could come out for or ~gainst anincum- bent and it would be covered. Malone said he didn't know how you could do it with issues. (Beirne arrived 4:071 Mrs. Hedland said that on page 3, section 7, where it mentions members shall receive conpensation of $100 a day--you need an amendment to say uwhile they are ~vorking H on committee business • Nike Miller agreed to this change Tillion asked if anyone had remarks to make' on the amount or the campaign limitations. He said he could see sO'much ,,'" per voter. "Orsini asked about dividing the number of . .. -.-...--.-------.. -----... --__ ,_____ .candidates__ .in_-a. distr.i.ct.----He--.said__ they__ had__ .. a.state_senato that campaigns from the identical district and it doesn't cost him any more money. Karen said t~e League had no ~os~tion on this point. She thought that everybodyrunnin for',: the same· office should be the same e'It should allow a newcomer to have a chance. . Rep~e~entative Mike Miller said that the initiative just 'says that the amounts of limits will be $6,000 and $8,000 . . . ijesaid he was endeavoring to pass a bill that says nearly t;he ·sarne. He didn't thlnk it could pass other;'Tise. The , . f"0 rmu 1.a VIi as b 3. S 8 don aper c c.9 i ~ a ,8.1":1 0 u.n t . He s ai G. in" ". I every cC.se the amounts C3.l:1e OU.~ to about ·$6:J 000 for House and $8,000 for Senate. This is the same as the initiative. ./ \ve preferred to do that rather than stating the amount I. _ \ because this would increase because or pODulation increase .....~ so we wouldn't have to change this figure later. Several members of the legislature would like to see it higher_ It does balance out; though.' . The in1tiative locks us in. -228- . ----------------------- Page 401----------------------- i3/25 -. I - ., Mr. Miller didn't think you could vary from the initiativel 'C~Lllio::-t ;:iaid h'2 coulc~ 3'2.:; tl-:':J:c' p2.:'-;::; 0::':' _~'/. .E2 did que3t:;io,~" ~\Jhether~ or not ~,\Je ~\roLtld CO':T.2 out \'riti".. abou-t $9,000 each.. ! 08 388 Miller said that was wrong--it comes out a little less. t· Mr. Miller gave the chairman a breakdown chart Sho"\'ling the figures. ! Chance asked why for the house districts it is divided between candidates but will ha~e multiple member senate districts. and they ~\lonft be div1ded ..r"Iiller said they were in the HeS. Tillion said he had difficulty with . that. Single senate district"--they both go to the same .media. The one ~v-i th the smaller number· of people ~vill have the advantage. Orsini asked if any consideration ~as given to what was to be done vv-ith money left at the end of the campaign .. Miller said you would have to keep reporting where it goes. Orsini said you wouldn't be spending any more on campaigning ~ rl[iller said you irTould do the same as you .. \ are now. You would have to·repo~t·it. The practical. thing to do is put it in a savings acco~nt--aslong,as t there is any left. Chance asked if thiJ~>- would be money I reported as income for the next election. M~ke said it I probably would be but you :/Jould shovv it ·for the year before_ No, that's not right. You would ident~fy it as left over from the last election. Orsini asked about disclosure on page 11 .. Can an indi- vidual make a $100 contribution to several candidates and not be listed but any time it is more than $100 he has to be registered. Miller said the candidate has to make a report himself to the cOffil'1littee. If a group gave him $100 he would have to report it. I Orsini a~ked Mr. Miller on ~orrect reporting. You say .1 this is done by commercial ·advert:i.sers and the' senate version says computer people~ and there are other people who affect computer information. r1ike said he eliminated . -..----.-'.----.. -.---.-'--.------------- "s-ej5vf-c'es'~""'-'That--was--s-omethrng---sbinebbdy"-did' -'lh"-~dvattce ~' ..-..---:'-~- We didn't feel that was really a campaign expenditure .. In a sense it is, though~ Tillion 'felt it is if it is published. Orsini gave an example of the amounts neces- sary for labeling or mailing': This is part of the cam- pat~n expenditur~s. Malone thinks this is covered. Or~inisaid you would have to report this as part of the expenditure but the advertiser~'louldn·f·t have to report to the commission. ~hy is this? Miller said he didn't think they looked.at it··so closely. It is easy to con- tact ~~chof the media because there aren't very many. It is 'probably not enforceable 'if they wouldn't report· on their oi~n ~ -229- .~ ----------------------- Page 402----------------------- 13/25 I -t~ () l I ~CJ,-:~piJI~t orl t~Ll~~ initi;:J~t;j_~"re. ?~rl·:2r s2.id it ~1~3.. S .l--Io • i33 38,'- .The senate bill had other things. OrSini asked' Senator Croft about page 9, line 3. He read from the E~'tion bill. You mention computer services. He asked why it I Campaigns was included in the senate bill and omitted from the house' version. Senator Croft said he viewed this as a check on the accuracy of the candidatets statement. The Hou~e required the reports prior as well as after I the election. We only required them after. He said I they get information from the contributors-'and groups. It is true the media is easiest to check.' The largest amounts ar~ spent in these other areas. He said he I thought it was necessary to c6ver them. Miller didn't i think there "'fas any obj ection to that. .Tillion said that is his area travel is the number one cost and that is not included. Miller said they just excluded it. Ors~ni asked how they addressed themselves to the lo~n situ~tion. Mike said. you had to repo~t. them.·,Orsini :aske~ what would be the case if an 1ndividual is loaned an amount of money by tbe private party:and after the election they forgive the loan. Miller said that gifts l1d1re 'to be repul.,teu. Ti.ll~url Citikeu aUOLlG II you are . building a house and the fellow loaned y6u the money~"'­ you spent your $6,000 on the campaign subject to the limitations but not to the report~ng.· Parker said that was why we had to have a conflict of interest 'bill . .Tillion said then you wouldn T t .be able to specify the' amount. You say only who paid you something. Parker.' said in the "house tr example--v-Te v-Tould have a house listed. Mike said this was covered in a very broad category_ . He . said Hickel might be a millionaire but you still know. 't'-lho the candidate is beholden to. Chance asked about page 23 of the RCS. You mention bond of financial interest--state offices--is there· intent to include municipal offic~s, also. 'Miller said it does include them unless they opt out. Chance ..-.-.-----'-~..-'...--,-.-~·--re-ad-··trom -the--"bj:l'l--ana-it---doe sh·t:'t--incT'ude-munl-cTIYci'r-'-:-:-:---:- . officers. Miller said she was right. ~The conflict'" people wouldn't·be included. Fran Ulmer said page 2' didn't cover·the conflict of interest chapter~ Miller said we were only.~alking about campaign disclosure. Karen said that was cine of the League's questions., . She said they thought the confli'ctwas more important· at the local:level. The League was concerned that· the confl~ct does not includes this for the municipalities~' Mi·ller said that any home rule city could enact this -~ J:' ..j-' '.'" - T,... l....L.. ]I,Tel'''"''~' c' -i D .... -; .: +-.! ~ ~ r" ...:J r,.L.. 4-. ~ ~. h --~ ~ . -1.1. vrlc..Y iN..:::.D:J.vO. ·1"J. oUJ...L -'-'- ... c:....l...Lv..:...ei::) c.n.CL uvavt:v .!..!.aVt:! ont: thing in common. They use the S·3.ffie techniques in elec.... t tions. 'They use the same media. You can regulate the -230- ----------------------- Page 403----------------------- pract!ces of the other bu~ t~e offices are different. You ~'I()Ltlci l-'~2.\l,:: _to 1:L30 t;~:.:; b-J~/)-:)ugl1 ::;h~_~r>tG.3.r:r maJ-o~-, planning and zo~ing com~~55ian, e~c~, ~nd someday you may want to do that. Karen said the municipalities . may" opt out. Can "you say they rrshall lt adopt these Campaigns things? Chance said the cpting out is regarding cam- paign disclosures not conflict of interest. Tillion said he thought we would have to cover municipalities at another time. This is usually \'{ith the assessing 'and zoning and planning departments. Repaymeritoffers come in on these offices- Miller said he felt what they did in his bill was consistent with the initiative. Fran Ulmer said it '>las th9 sam·::; as the governor t s- bill. . Orsini went back to campaign contribution disclosures. Is there a fiscal note on this? He asked what- happens if the legislature doesn't give us the fQnds. Tillion T said he- didn t think that if you have nshall If they 1iITould _have to fund the money. Orsini asked if we had any idea or how much this would cost. Croft thought it would be ! about $430,000. Tillion 2sked what the average was 'per I person. There is a probls2 when you get into the Anchor- ! age area. Parker said it reaches the $6-8,000 figure. Orsini said one section talks about people who do the work--paid campaign- help. It gets into the contributions on page 14. Professional services for which charges / 'are ordina~ily made-~if a professional ~ign painter \.,.;;:0ITi'''''..... volunteered to paint signs for you then you would have' (t~,v to consider that as _a contribution. Fran said that was; correct. Orsini said this would be up to the honesty of the individuals as to how much the charges are worth. Miller said it would have to be ordinary market value. ,Tillion didn't think there would be any problem in Anchorage giving a range up to $6,000 for the first campaign. Orsini said that vlasn! t correct. Chance .. . said this was always a problem even for the incumbent. __ '_______________ ' ___ ~___ JY[iller said_you V\H~renot_requiringthem to raise, $6,.000 :. ______.~'_____ ,_,._,_,__ ,_I A lot of pebple win their elections on a lot less. He said this limits it to the extent that someone cantt buy his election. There are other ways to get publicity like going around knocking' on doors. Parker said if you get thi~ too low--in the bigger districts they are still campaignin~ areawide. They have to have a certain amount of media time. In Anchorage this would be a substantial cut to what they have been spending. One individual spent five times that last time. Tillion saId there was a prob lem in the urban areas. _ _' r;T~~ lC')Y1Q s::J1 r~ ~,;~ "fO-1-1 ,~, 'Ii 1(-0 -'-('I ;"0::4""'-' ~-r>n;:1 .i-,.::::. T"f~ ~y)~Q~O~ T lr-;' L:: --- __ .- L,''-- Q.. __ U I~_ , U...!_~L -,-",~~ V--' __ ,-"'-'-1. .J.. ... '-..)"" \..1-,-,-- ,.L.c".:. .......... .::J---.'-"' va.~~~n6 one piece of the legislation at a time. Tillionthought I_ lITe should work ii'll th the 33 since it has- already passed the senate. Mike Miller said his bill said the same thin~ but added the conflict of interest to it. Tillion said I the League had testimony on it. We will hear from them now. -231- I } ----------------------- Page 404----------------------- Karen Hedland said the L8ague felt there were sos~ C;j~~::~t~L;,::t·;~j_DCl.:1,i r}:::'-'Oo,l:::::1.3 j2C3.~).0,::: ',:;f' ;.1 J_2.~'i tiat :::'2.i~~~ the legislJ.tu:-ce has the last ;"iord. In the senat2 bill, the penalty section was better than the ReS. r;J ;.:. i (Jl"'" Speaking to the ReS, she said basically they would '--' .. ~v_-J.1 Campaigns like to separate this bill from page 22 on because they felt these were two separate issues. She said' ,there was precedent for this around the country_ She said the League had a strong position on all of .these issUes. They do not like to see this bill become all jumbled up. Karen said they didn't have any major objections except the one already suggested amendment on page 3~ line 13 about the $100 per day per diem. Tillion said he agreed on this because we dontt want'to pay them $100 per day the whole year around .. On page 7 Mike Miller has determined thatthis'40% t~mes the population--this takes care of the cost 'of Iiving~ The League thought it would be more specific if done r-."''""'O·,>">rll·n·0' TO -c'-'n-::> r'los+--o-f'-li-;-'1T!;:r iflj-ir.a-r"of> TL m'a'l hp. C!.~\.. -'-'- - b v A'-- 1,., '-' ~ --"---0 __ ~ ...... Iv 1.I _.. .Llr 1< .;, .. :...J~ that the dollar will devalue faster .. Eage 7, section 'need clarification. ' Page 9, section 100 regarding contentsof'reports--The league committee felt section 4 which deals "'lith ticket (' raising is a clumsy thing. Tillion·said the committee \. would check on this point. ~V Karen said that solid waste is another issue. Thisbill is creating a problem with the people. Page ll-~reports by Commercial advertisers. She ~aid they were not too sure that they see the need for the 'commercial advertiser to issue all of these reports. One is five days before the eJection :..:.-. one ,report at f:' . the end would be adequate for the check that is intended. 'The intention is to make sure that ,the candidate is "reportihg'-·whaf he' is spending. This is a burden to do it more than once. Tillion said they would just have to update the first report. Eve~y check has to be countersigned by the Lieuten~nt GbY~rnor before the bills can be paid for advertising. Page "13. flIike Miller has pointed out they have a vio- lation--there is a willful violation clause and finally the ~~nate version took that out. It is cumbersome so ~h~ 'SQ}1~f~ 'r~n~io~ -;~ ho~~ 0~ ~h~~ ~n~~t- ~'lhQ,-,-y, .~)-_ir",_,n",l~,r l"I:.... ...c.......... . ....... J,. ~ v '- . .~..!.. J...J -:- ( .!..:. -l.... 0 v,- \::) v -....,/.:.!. v 1 ... t...:.,.. OJ ." 1:-' u ..L..!. _ v ... _ _ _ .......:,.'-'..., say that the -election sh~ll be inValid. The League is very fond of the election pamphlet section. There is a statute now that says' the Lieutenant Governor rna~y pro .... vide the voter information on the ballot issues. She said the League got no help with the distribution so it was really a hassle. She said they also didnrt have any money to finance the distribution of sa~e~ -232- ----------------------- Page 405----------------------- j 51C:~. Pa~e 6 t . Judy Hopkins commented on page 8) line· 2. It··says that I . nJ) p2cson m~~J 2c~k8 '0. C(J~:.':::~~o::.~i:'n. ~'!~1l'"' ,? O:1}_lot9'2JP0'3:~.t;j_O~ he. would have to report it. Orsini asked if that 'would be the way with the league if they were going to have a campai~n fund to oppose the campital move. Re asked if it were in excess of $100, would it be listed somewhere?" Fran said the oerson would have to individuall report this if it were ove~ $100. She said that much of 1 the bill relies O~ the in~ividual!s integrity. Malone ! still felt that it required the league to report this. -233- ----------------------- Page 406----------------------- I j/~j Chance said she agreed with this, but it seemed that Oot:.cl ~\;C\I_Lljh~\7e t,:::; ::e2P,y::.'t;. (}23i:-~i. 2.sk,:;~c: ~'(l(::tt; ',:i~'_3 Sj2. CcLJ'2) did th2Y bot:h f1s.ve t() r'2{Jorr:;? Fran sai::l the2:"'e~' , was a problem. The individual has to report and when the League uses the money they have to report. Whether they have to report the name for that purpose~ she did~~t know. Fran said there was no requirement for political committees to identify an individual contributor for specific purposes. Malone felt that _ there was but it only applied to elections for office. Mike Miller said that v'ras right. Chance asked about the initiative on page 6; line 5. Tillion said they don't have to report who put up the money_ Parker said' that if the League wages a campaign to stop the capital move they have to file a report of their'expenditures and give an account of where the . money came from. Tillion said there was no place that . required them to show where the money came from. 'That 'is the catch. Karen said the League came out against this but wouldn1tmindif they said they got say 10% j from SC Alaska~ 25(,; froQ ~\lestern, etc. Chance felt that I I if you are·' naming that group as a political cormnittee theY Y'vould be u.nder this. Till.:.:) ~\fould be especially true f if th~y.accepted contributions for this particul~r issue. Fran turned attention to page 9, section 100. Here it describes the contents of the- reports. (3) says: Total amount each of which is $100 or less and the treasurer must have on hand a list of names .... That is for a cross_ check. If the cow~ission decided there was a problem they would have access to this information. The treas- urer is required to keep these. This still doesn't relate to ballot propositions--taking the money for a specific purpose. That doesn't seem to be covered. Parker turned back to page 6, (c) and read from the bill. He said he thought they had to report any money as long as they haie it. Malone said it was clear that a list ---.-.-------.--.--------..c-------------wou-ld have---to--be---maint-ained ~------Whether-·-i-t---t~iOuld--b--ep·art--..,.-~---'-- --.-----..----~_: . of the report--hedidntt know. It would be available for - inspection. Or~ini asked ab6ut page 9, subsection 2. You talk about municipal office and state _office. The issue campaign doesn't seem to be addressed. Hhat kind of. report would that group file~ Chance said that under (3) they are required to· have a list. Malone said we could strike that· by taking out the 1}Tord Ilmunicipallf . I' I I 03:"'32.ni asked l.r contributors to ths oc'ganization ~'Iou:d ! be made known',to the public. Mike Miller said they wouldnTt. If the commission ~uspected anything th~y could go in and investigate. .As far as revealing all the names of the constributors, we didn't go into that. He didn't think we should. -234- ----------------------- Page 407----------------------- --------------------:---------------:-~-------:~~-~~-----:-i 3725:- ! . ' Tillion asked about statewide ballot propositions .. He -; ,-,7"\ 382 for or against came frc~ A~~horag2, Fairb~nks) Valdez> etc. This is a valid thi~g·to know. You would know ro from what area yo~ received the most sUpport. Campaigns O~sirti mentioned private interest group that might promote I the capital move or any other organization and the public . 1~ouldn T t be informed who they \,'jere. An organization like t Alaskan T s Uni ted. 'If.you find out that a very large .organ+- ization in JuneaQ gave thsn all the money, the people Shou~d know that. In this case the person could remain totally I ' anonymous~ Tillion said the ~hamber of Commerce lobbies I are that way. The basic 27rrount of money came say from the Alaska Miners' Associ~tion. We should know that. He 'said he VTas not sure this is the proper place for dis- closure. Malone said we are only talking about this in the electiori campaign. Beirne g2."'ile the e:z:a:-:.ple of a party--say the Republican Party--giv~ $308 to a candidate. The money came from a labor union. They could tell the candidate where the money came froD but there is no requirement that tIley nave to report it. Parker felt there tv-as a clause in here that would cover that. Mike Miller said there are a.number .. of people 1"qho may want to contribute to the 'particular party and the monies would be divided evenly. Karen said this is what she'meant when she (~ suggested separating the conflict of interest sectiono 'U The taxable income deduction is under the conflict of interest section. You. vlouldn t t 1Hant to see that deleted. , The section in the BCSis on the very last page--3l. ! 1 . .. h . T' ..-.1 ThlS is ldentlcal to t ~ senate verSlon. nere was a question as to why this was a part 6f the conflict divi-· sion. Fran said it wasn't a part of the conflict bill. I Karen said that anyway they wanted that part left in. On the conflict portion--p~ge 25. The ~embership doesn't ·····-·..--·-·-·-~--s·ee-·;that···-a.. dollar···categ·orically·a.rn·o'0.nf"-is nece'ssar~i~--'The§ believe they want to know your primary source of income. They would like to know the percentage of money--from what source but not the actual amount. Tillion also likes the percent~ge better than the a~ounts. You could say yoti earned so much from fishing for instance~ and a certain. percentage for something else. Chance asked where the. conflict of interest bill· is nOTt\i. She was told it was in the senate somewhere. to'know if the Judiciary S~z~~ttee would be willin~ to '-' t int~oduce 2 conflict of i~t2r23t bill. Tillion'said that i was a separate thing. Orsini said he would like to have all interested'~arties address themselves to one ~oint--the time required for I reporting. Seven days prior to the election,what kind of an organization are you going to have say in the -235- \ \ \ ----------------------- Page 408----------------------- Page 9 primary give you over $100. There are probably 150 to 2DO O}:~g:1r:.t:::.J_tlo:".s Ir:. !"'-:':'2l:o~)'~~,;;:: :~-) t~~Ls CO?:l:-n:i.. 5·3~~I'):-: ';-£:'ll S33S8 b,::; de:~1)_g2c.l :,,-1;:';[1 .r":;p·~.Jl"'t~;. \>2.0 is t;he co:(::,1:iss=Lc;~'1 g~)ing (to do with the pile'of infor8ation~ especIally if thls is going to make any difference on disclosure. How will they be able to make this av~ilable to the public. Mike Miller said you have to identify the very real' problem. The Governorfs bill even had disclosure. if ~here -is any purpos~ in the disclosure~ you have to have. most of it before the election. Try .toget this information to the voter in 2dv2Dce. In certai~ caSes maybe the best thing done is that it is filed. The can- didate could go in and check on his opposing candidate. They can hir~ staff--probably a lot of temporary staff. The first thing--you can go down there and the best thing that can happen--it might be--so you can make the maxi- mum use of the information. We went to eight days before the campaign. Orsini said that conceivably you could computerise the informatio~: Mike said~these reports are filed with your district court in, addition to the central comJnission . . Tillion asked Senator Croft the facts about this bill in the senate. He said he didnrt think the· senate would con~ cur on the· ethics. He said there were. some provisions in ( the election part that troubled him--in the HeS. He felt you may l;·vell v'lind up in a free conference committe~ that wi11 come back as an election campaign bill not as desir-- u able as what they got through the senate. He feels easier' with the basic senate version and have the House amend this on the Floor. As for the conflict of interest--he didn't think this should be added to the senate bill. Senator C~oft said he was quite proud of the senate ver- sion--a pride in authorship. Tillion said he didnlt want to vote on anything that will put the bill into 'free conference.' ...-...... -... -.- .... Parker· sa1d we-··-still have ·these-things·-coming·-on--the--ballo+,-;;-·--------... If they warit those bills they can play with one watered down or noth~ng. Tillion said we still have the problem that the one brought over from the senate is better than what will go on the ·referendum.. Parker said we ~\}'ill get a weak disclo"surebill and a weak campaign bill. Croft felt the'senate had put out a decent campaign bill. Halone .q-skedhow hard it would be to get one of those confliet of interest·titles out of State Affairs~ The House 'might pass the ReS and then it .will go into free conference. The public will never kno~ that the conflict of interest has been pulled out of the bill. We can ae~d them two bills. Tillion said the senate wouldntt kill it if.it was k~pt clean. He said he thought we would be le~ting the' senate off the hook if we don't' send back the same campaign bill that they sent over here. There is concern about what would come out of a free conference cormnittee. A lot depends on a lot of studying. Malone said that he -236- ----------------------- Page 409----------------------- Page .10 concurs with Senator Croft. He felt we should handle 33 1) :2 t: h t h.i t1 ~J; ~3 S ':?} [J c: r,~ -t e ~L ,1 ~ »i ~ ::: ~J :J_ ~(1 t ~~ ~; ~~ s ~~~ r! c1 -t~. 2 [J :3~ .~ '0 ['1 I~ 1. =L C~ t: 0 :{-. i n ~ ~3 r 8 ~:; t:: i~ ~L 11 ;.. ;_i t ~1 i ~ . (J y' S j_ ~ =L {'; ct:j ::1 question for Senator Croft. Based on th~ campaign portion of the State Affairs CS,- would the senate accept that? Croft said he thought there are some p~oblems with some of the proposed language of that bill. He said the senate will concur with a strong campaign bill. Tillion said we would try to get another title for HB 543 or we will lose this senate bill. Mike Miller objected because he didn't think we could get anybody to get the conflict of interest pill out of committee. They- ·will just leave it there. Senator Croft said he \,vould not presume to tell ·the com- mittee what to do. He does think there is a perfect vehicle for the conflict of interest bill. You may want to pass a conflict of interest bill and take another bill from th~ senate to use for this purpose. Mike said he . would like to do that. Ii.llio~ felt certain that the .. ;·· ! r 1 ,-,;::,.·n ).1-c. '--0111 rI -/>rlL-h;:J-'" h!Cl-ra 4-'r,a -,..-,n.t:">cY>8-nr l'm· ..l;::,....,..~·.: f"'\Y"l -f--'!--I'-"'n c, "m;::,. I u ....... _ Cl.V'':'"'' }J\, __~. __ '--4.. !.-G..l~~ ..I. ........ J_· ":'.:.o....-V\...,.... ''';~!.,,- ..!..,_~,--.!.. -l!.\...lL.t.!.~ '\"""'~0.'!",,-,.!..l. l;!...:.;Cll .. U~J.!.J..!.'_- . thing that. would work.. .... . ... ':. I Orsini asked when an initiative passes, how long is it I effective? Tillion said it was.effective for two years.· Orsini said t0ere is an effective date and it would effect this election. Croft said you can amEnd it at any time. The most disastrous thing would be for the initiativet6 pass if there is no campaign. You will probably find that most every candidate would have violated some part of thi~ Mike Miller asked if there would be any objection to adoptl ing--the s~nate version it would be possible on the make up of the commission--five of the four could be from the same political party. In the House version it is tNO from each party and one other. Tillion said this doesn't really matter. Orsini asked Karen to comment on· the c6rn- mission. She said they tried to think Dr who is going to do this .. What is an equitable way of selecting them? She .. -.. ,---.--.----- .--said ·-there--wa-s.---s trong--feeling-they---didn! tvlant-their--------------- ----------.- ----- leaders selecting their people to be on the commission. Orsini said his concept would be each political party would appoint· three and the majority of these six w6uld select one additional member. Croft said he would have no objection to that. Tillion said he could see one per- son appointed .with the governor making the appointment. The governor and the chief justice and the four appointees they would chDose another.- Orsini suggested saying' I rather than two from each party that we say Tlnot of the . Miller felt this Nas a good point. I I • - f 1 n n ::~m 0 \ T ;::,. Q" ':l Y1 ,-:, " .--. ; - a a-' 1 -n::> '" ~,..., , - s ('> (") "I ~ .-=:; -.:... ~-- 1 L -i- '0 () ,. -1 ,- t ~ .d in~~~;du~e v ~ndc~;:~p~;;~·-;U~~-;f~-~~~Jnitt~~~~~_t~0!~ !tD~~P~~;.1:;-G '~~I' J: 9.0'- .{.... 1- - .-, 9r " h . .. • h H R reCOfil...rnen·d a vlon, -u h. ·0- IH!llCL lS recommenalng t e pas sage I - -< of H. R . 4 760 . T h ,:; r e ~'T a s no 0 b j e c t ion ~, . -_ Meeting adjourned at 5.40 p.m. -237- ----------------------- Page 410----------------------- HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE I MINUTES OF THE MEETING l l i I Chairman Tillion 6alled the meeting to order at 3:13 p.m.! in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments .. Present were \' Tillion,McVeigh, Malone, Orsini and Banfield. Tillion said that we had HB 655 - Providing for the use of certain fishery records by the Commercial Fisheries I HB 65 Use of fi_shery ,Entry Commission. The cOITI":'llission is not able to get records by the facts needed from the fish tickets-because they Limited Entry aren't with Fish and Gam~--they are with the Governort·s Cornmission office. Our other laws won't allow Fish and Game to I give out thisidformation. . Malone moved and asked unanimous consent that we report out HB 655 ljvi th a ttDo Pass!f re cOIIltllendat ion . There was· ~oobjection and the bill was signed out. Tillion, . Malone , Banfield" and MC-;o.,r'2igh signed HDo Pass rr; JOe:! Orsini signed Hno recf!. HB 781 - Confidentiality of bank records was the next r.0Df5.dent i e..li ty of bank records item for discussion. McVeigh §aid that we have had this HB 78 before and the governor vetoed it~ Tilli6n said he had a letter that showed this will be passed if certain changes have been made. Tillion asked if the committee wished to put this out with individual recommendations. ( The changes were made in the penalty section. Tillion will carry this on the floor. Tillion, OrSini, and McVeigh signed ITDo Pass"; Malone signed HDo Not Pa·ss u _; and Banf:Leld had Hno rec It. Election Tillion said that SB 388 was before us again. Senator SB 'Croft will continue his testimony. He said there were' Campaigns some things in the house bill that we might want to consider. There are some good' provisions. One of these is the vice section. Sometimes it helps to check into . some of these things ..iD._ the.AGt .S___ 9ffice. ___... He_ saicL.there_______.. _ -------··---··-·--·-··-----·--·~···---···---·-··i~as -8:"-- pr thougb. Croft said he felt that when you tried to inclUde groups other than those for the election of candidates 7 you would have some opposition. You also run into sevire constitu- i i tional probleQs. With CO?E the primary p~rpos~ rs to .. support candidates. (Chance arrived 3~30) Any person ·or I ,group who gives more than ~lOO will have to file a report. I The problem with groups is that you can·set up groups just for this purpose. Croft felt the senate bill covers this as well as you can. He felt it was tight enough to cover subterfuge. In reference to what is, in the initiative--sect~on 16,has a provision relating to chcrges by cOI11.mercial advertisers. Senator Croft said he could check further on this. With that provision ~n the initiative the senate might be more willing to accept the amendment. The initiative defines commercial advertisers as one who sells--etc. Billboard companies are included, so this could include sign_ painters. Producing printed material for broadcast was discussed. This could be for broadcast or distribution. Tillion, said if it is used as a handout, then it would ....----....---.-------~--.,-- ..-... -.-. --··-·c··o"ve'r -the--Osi"gOh -pai"rtter-~--···' Cr"oft" ~-.s-ai·d·' j·"f··-"-\ve~··-·1;'I·an"t·e-d-~'"t"o-o··"cc)ver""-"·-~ _. ___o·_·~ signs fees then you could add "sign companies tl • Any commercial advertiser who gives a separate rat~ has to report that if it is more than $100. The pro~ision'pro­ hibiting contributions by that class by rate cutting or rat~ gouging is in the bill. Tillion said that radi6 and TV were already covered. This doesn't cover news- papers. Chance said the federal lal;v only covers broad- casting and not the printing .. McVeigh d3ked if there h~i ~22n a cost analysis on this .~ bill. (Handy Berry and ?~2~ Ulmer ~rrived) Croft said ! the house arid senate rai~2d $7~OOO for the House and $14~OdO for the senate._ Banfield 2.s?:2d if anybody had figured, I the cost of the election Da~phlet. Croft said that would I depend upon the amount of the appropriation for that pur- pose. In the se0ate we had $156,000. He felt this was I, rather hi.gh. Tl)e legislat ').~""e can sp~cify the amount for that purpose. I -239- t I ! ----------------------- Page 412----------------------- Page 3 Banfield said she couldn't make up her mind about what ',h;:. .o...,': .!. .2, 1 in::: if ; SB (1. i. dn r l~ get ~ i 1e s e (~ t i O:l wh~re he said the house versio~ prevents an advertiser from making any donation.' Croft "~'1 ( ;;.~ said this is by-making a different rate charge. L,,;..~t.J_on He could charge you one rate--his regular charge is I Campaigns. different. I Banfield went back to Ttgrouplf. She asked about the neoplet that are grouped for backing a slate of candidates. ~Croftl said they still would be a group. Banfield asked if this! would include the John Birch Society. Croft said if its I mai0 purpose is to back election of candidates--they would~ If backing candidates was only incidental to their main ! 'purpose, they would have to report any contribution but wouldnrt have to reveal all of its financial operation. Orsini asked if this would be true. You hav~ defined group as someone whose major political pu~pose is ... Tillionsaid that was two separate things. Contributions under $100 hav9 to be listed. Croft asked if. what they \ 0ere worried abo~t was'w~ether it should ·say candidate I ft 0'·.1'"' C ~rdJ" a~ ::."l +- a S II \.I!r ~ +- an" lJ -j- L h c 0'" D 0 Q ; t- p ·::.nd· t hr:' A. a"' I _ . ct..!..l ... '"-'-" lJ "- • '0/ _.L LJ.., V . U 'J ~ v l.l ............. \".. t-' 1. u -l... v...... 0.. 1. __ ......,.. _ Hoc group--asked Banfield. They are formed to elect . peopie arerit, they? Croft said they were. He, atleast~ 1,1 would think that was their primary purpose. He said ir he understood the rules of drafting, the Singular includes the plural. Banfield wanted to know if they would have to file under this. Croft felt that they did. Tillion commented--to take over a convention and to influence' candidates--the Chamber of COIr,Jnerce and others wou.ld not be Considered their major purpose. SinCe they made a contribution over $100 they would have to report that. Banfield asked about unions, teachers' organizations, etc. Are they included in this? Croft said he wouldn't want to say. Orsini asked Croft to point out where it says that a contribution by the John Birch Society has to be reported. Croft said it was on page 72 section ........_......_..._.................._......._....__ ..._.__ .. ____ ... ,.....5 .• 13 . 080. _...._..Orsini .... s aid....we.__ had_ ..defined__ group ..._as -~ ..t o.__ one..~-----, .._............_.___..____.. .. or more persons whose main function is to elect candidates. Does "person!! mean not a Single individual but several also? Croft thought they ~ould for that purpose. You are worried about the definition of group which would exclude them .. It would be helpful to the public to know that ·the John Birch Society contributed ftXff number of dollars to ~achof the following candidates. Rather than checking .eachcandidateTs contributions--to set out the John Birch Society. Chance felt they. would come under t.he use oftlperson lf as t~sed in this statute. This Hould be Qh organ1zation acti~g i~ that fuhction the way it is used. It m~an3 a n~tural:~2rscn, ~o~poration, or organi- zation. ! .( \.~' -240- ----------------------- Page 413----------------------- Orsini asked if a group would include a volunteer o~~ani- be .right. Croft answered ~~~t by reading from the statutes of ·Title 1, section 10.060. He finished by I saying "unless the context other~ljise requ.ires it. tr I ! Banfield asked about section l5. 070 on page 5. No person i may coritribute to other than his own campaign $1,000 in I the aggregate. Does that mean that your husband or your. ! wife couldn't contrihute more than$l,OOO? Page 7 onl statement of contributions--furnishing goods or services I to a candidate. Does this mean putting out a mailing? I Croft said lf it were something for which you normally' .\ wouldn't receive pay--then it is not covered. If you .\ are in'the business of putting out mailing--they would I then be giving a service that has to be reported. . . I Banfield said she was getting at the organization--whose . business it is.to elec~ people. They put out the mailing.l·· PACE or John Blrch Soclety--do they have to 'report? I . . Croft felt they would. He said he wanted to make it . 'clear that there is SO~2 question about this legally. The right of the group to communicate ~'Jith its members is i . different from the right to CODlllUnicatewith the public 1 at large.' He said he personally thought this was a contrit . bution .Of a type .. Clearly the· purpose of the commUDicatiojrr is to distribute the letter rather than comment about the candidate retained by the group. There is a shady area. . The right. of people to assemble peacefully is involved.. .. t Orsini asked about a general mailing by the John Birch Society, other than to their membership. Croft said that both are covered. This would be a contribution to the . candidate. There is s9me question as to wheth~r the state can inquire into their right to con®unicate with their membership. Maybe they can't say they have to reveal thise Tillion said that the conservation societies do'this by mailing only to their own members. Orsini asked if this would be a general mailing supporting a candidate--is that a contribution and does the candidate· report it? Malone said there was something on this at . HC •. _ .•______ •• ________ • __ ... page--7, line-'-g';"'--- He----f'e Tt---i ~-.;jas····C"ove-red :.... ·-·It··ls···-havfng·------·-:--.. --.----._.----.. to do with the same section--statements by cont~ibutors. The re~orts are listed on page 11 and groups are on page 12 .. The question is.on page 7, line 9. Shouldn't that be "effectH rather than ITaffectll. I am not sure what the difference is--the intent is to elect a particular can- didate. Page 112 line 29.' Mad2 for the purpose of influencing '.1 the ~ominee--on line 6 of page 12 the cajor purpose is the major nomination or election . . -24l- I I. ! \ ----------------------- Page 414----------------------- ·In a single member districtvrhere there are two people running--a group starts up_ We are not in favor of Mr. 't'y:r ~)-!~If-; tt1r~:~/' rl.,s·-'Ji~·:·~I~ s:.~;~~r 9,1. ~--.:.-i.~:.~;: ·?~~~)':)~i.t ~rJ(;~.. :"'[~")·Ll~.. ct t:L1e=l rJe CO"'/.2recl ·urlt~L2r' "th.i~3 bi~Ll~? C:J().r.'t tll.Otl~;il~~. t;jey Vl01J.ld be covered in that case assuming that tl1ey spent more than $100. They would have to report~the sour6e because there is no $100 limit. They would be a group collecting money' from several people. Their expenditures are not attribut- able to any 'one candidate. They operate as a bona fide group independent of the candidate. Malone said they would be covered under the reporting. There is a question as to whether this is' adequately covered in the bill. I This would especially be true if the group was forcied I to defeat a candidate. Chance said that was influencing I the nomination or electLon. Fran said there was some inconsistency. If you' say influence election rather than nominatlon and effect rather than affect--- - Malone said that someone might raise a question on this •. Chance said they would be influencing the guy they would ., . be try~ng to defeat. Fran said this was under contributioqs hut not under group w~i~h could be altered to embrace that I . cOr: C Q nf- C' n 0 ---.t:> f,-::. -n-r.::" .~ T 0 i'"' .r') ;y a 7 1 i 1'1 ~ Q (I y> sin-l s,qi d·· I _ - ........ i:-' ..J .. U _.J.. --- .L '- "- .J... - ........ \ • .t.. J .t:--' .~A 0 \.....0 j _ .1 _ c.: J.. U -L. - - - -..... -.. i we keep referring to candidate but THe-d_Q_nft mention ballot I· proposi tions . erorc SalQ that was rlgnt.. It is not; I included in the senate version. Malone ·said th.at you I might argue that that is a different thing. The idea in a single member district in the general election--if a group campaigns against someone it \IJould have an effect. ( What requirements are placed on them? Croft said they would be required to report their expenditures. Malone_ V asked how those things would be counted. You couldn't fairly count those expenditures in the campaign expenses of Mr. "XH.. He mlght have nothing to do with the group .. Croft said as far as the point about the use of the three different phrases--that is a good point. It probably ~hould be clarified. He said he wasn't sure that it !~ " was necessary but that is the type of thing that somebody . might try to make something over. This would be bhanging - -- ___ c___ .---.----.---... --- '-1 t-·-to -'-i rif I u_ eric i ng -or af f e c t ing --or .. a ddi rig- bat h ~-C.- -Ma. Ton e-···· I said in the HCSit is covered. It says for or against I -' the candidate. Fran said the definition of contribute' - I refers to the purpose of supporting or opposing a candidate~ This is on page 14. I . Orsini went back to section 50. Page4~-talking about' I groups formirig~ Upon receiving registration with the I (fommission--what happens then? Croft said if the can- I. d~d~te doesn't come back and say they are operating vI" i t h;..") ut 1:1 i ~-3 1~ il () T'l 1 Q -~1 .~ c. t. h ::'::l n '" .,::, ~ ,-, -,.-, - ~:) ()-,.-. C' -~ b l·, for the i r i action. He ~~~ .. t~~ ~~k~-~~hi~~ s~ ~t~;~~i;~~~~d;; oath. -242- ! .1. ----------------------- Page 415----------------------- 1. etas ;..J , 3/26 Croft .sa.id on P?ge .7 ·Heshould cha~ge natX~.c.t ". to ttinfluence H • Tillion felt -this i,vould oe a· good· idea. SB 38( what is thia? Croft said ~hat ~as toavoid·any CO~fU3io~ as to whether something i3 an expenditure or Contribution. If you gave $100 for the purpose-of paying something or to the person that would otherwise receive it. It will Carnpaigns still be a contribution. Page 12, line 7. To avoid any question of interpretation the Hand If in the middle of the section should be changed , to !lor!!. Malone asked fo~ 3-D example ?! ~Jha~ !"fould h~ppenl in the case of t~e hypothet~cal group ~na-c scarts up lnl oppOSition to a candidate. He spends a great deal of I money. Croft said they would have to show the source of I their funds and the level of their ex-_6~nditures. Tillion I ! said the candidate can disavow so he is cleared. Malone I noted that this was in opposition to--would they be ! defined as a campaign contributor to somebody? Croft I said No~ because they are doing it themselves. They are I running an ad in the paper attacking the other persona . That i~3 a tou,_9::h area. TIc. - ;::;-i ~ 1.-.n. 'c"o-rs=--l-,at T-h-' S 1r::lC n Y"I ..... : T • -.. ..'.' --'.,,:, ,. i1.._ ~ :-'-~ -'-l~. L.!..L'. \;\ G ~;r V.J..!...!... , t_,~'" :\2~~u • j He d10n'c KnOW·1I cn13 WO~~Q oe co~sldereQ a con~riou~ion to the ,candidate or not. ; Croft said he didn't know the I full limits of ~he 4ues~iun. Wd~one ~aid they were a , . group making a report- und2~ 13.110. He· had said that he was concerned with that procedure. being used to sub- vert election reform. Croft said that the critical thing is whether they.have any contact with the .contact. A group desiring to COrnl'1lent free of any type of control is pretty well prbtected by free speech and other constitutiohal j provisions_, ! i Malone said there evidently idould not be any limit on what)" they spent. Croft agreed. Malone felt this was a serious! problem. Croft said that many feel that the expenditure i is unconstitutional. There are groups like Common Cause 1 fe~l that it should be and can be done constitutionally. ! Others are equally convinced that you cannot cover them. I i ...... --._.-. ---- ------ "--·-·------------·-Orsini--a ske d- ··if ---t-h ere ---wa 5---e a u a 1--t 1me---again s t--n e ;"T8P aD e r s? ------}:--.-----------. Croft said No, but there is~for radio and TV. Th~r~ is I· . a federal statute in the event of an attack the candidate' can be given equal time fOT rebuttal--that la~ was chal- , lenged now and it is in the Supreme Court. There' is no I decision on this as yet. .! . I. Malone thought there should be a section of this bill I that. cove.ced a group conduct::;_ng a negative campaign. i ; He was talking about limiting what they could spend in I. some aceas. C;:-,~).E'c said i -s 7-i~:~_:) :i.::"S :feeling th2.t -Y-0UC2.D regulat9 t~2 expenditures ~~~~ by a candidate a~d those groups ope:eating und.2r his Ci):-:t::-'.:)I. You cant t do it against the others constitutionally. ----------------------- Page 416----------------------- He felt that if you tried to get into the area of trying I ,~.-~ :)) ~~)) ;:~ ! ~).L) __ -"" ~ C) (1 t118 ~~1~c.tlit~lC~.lt:io0S (Jr· r·:.::~"f~o~~na.11se 01' c~lected_ of··f·~L(~i·~:}.. ~L::::) r that you have even stronger constitutional problems. He ! said he really thinks that what we are dealing with in this area--freedom of speech~ right to vote, right to assemble--he felt you have t6 be very careful iri trying to solve that problem. Banfield asked about people who are employed with radio " and TV stations as announcers--what about them filing for office and campaigning? Crdft said he hadn~t looked into that. The only bne that tried that was defeated. Croft said he would assume that the station would take action voluntarily, though. Chance said they would take them off the air. Banfield asked if this would come under federal law. Croft said that it would.. Chance explained about equal time and FCC regulations. Orsini asked about page 14} section 3. -' He Nasn '.t sure "qha this section did~ Croft said that 3 and 4 provided a tax credit up to $50 forpoiitic~l contributions. ~Because . of the '/,·Jay the tax code is Hritten--you.,_have to define what a contribution is and 010 provides the limitation on the amount. Orsini asked if that would include services contributibns. Chance said it would as long ~s ,the candidate provides the materials. Orsini asked about .. when he made the signs-~is his labor the value of the contribution? Chance said he could claim that as a contribution under IRS. She said when she donates her \..",.~ time to the Salvation Army she can t t claim that as an income tax deduction. If she was a photographer and gave them pictures to use--then she could take that as a deduction. Malone said this section deals with the tax credit not how the contributions are noted under the bill. Chance said it was on the last page~ line 8. The revenue commissioner is preparing a list. When you' .list the identified deductions you don't have to put down 1 ~..~---:·-~-·~ii~\~~tl~~t~:~~~!u~~':t~:~u~~~.. n;~.. ~~Ll~~e1J~h~~~~.~~!~~~e~~rbs;·c-c-. .' If you are making a CS you could--Croft said he would say "dates if available". Tillion asked if the committee approved of a Judiciary CS that will make the changes and would they be willing to put it out. McVeigh ~aid he was i~ ~avor of moving the bill. Tillion and Malone agreed to Signing the bill o~t. Tillion s~id the com- mittee members can bring up any amendments they want. Malone said that he would move an amendment on page 7, lih8 9--d'ele.te the:; 'vTord Hei'I-"ecti! ar:.c5. substitLlte t~2 T.'ford I "influence Tr • Page '7, line 22,--th2 sarae. : ! -:-244- ----------------------- Page 417----------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------~------~-----;?,3/26 . Orsin.L on Page 7, line 8- after the ','lord' Trservices rr add t~L::~ VIC t·cL:.; :r for' ~'Ih i ;=: :.... 1 {.;O~:;..C:~ ~':..3 2..L.: ~~ or: ~l. s 0 i......,cl:L"~ 2.r.-l.ly 9 ai~~i. ,11, On line 10 - after I'candidat'el! 2.dd or ballot proposition. t~~~··. . Malone objects to this. Orsini asked' the same amendment :~,.,w-: (")1'1 •.•J LC.. _v.L ...... :..- ·for line 23. Tillion asked if this was a serious thing . Campaigns Banfield thought it was. Tillion said the house bill includes this. Croft didn't think it was necessary to make this amendment. Malone moved to delay discussion on this and proceed with suggested amendments. Malone moved to amend on page 12,. line 6. After !'influ- encing"--that is necessary. NcVeigh suggested this .- deletion up ·to !Tor" on the next page.' Croft thought we' should say Ilto influence!!. Orsini page 9~ line 6. Delete Tlfurtheringft and insert "influencing". Malone said there was a significant difference 'in this. If we do that are we moving back into the area of infringing on constitutional rights. I Tillion said we should go back and start going page by 1 t IvIalone moved. and asked uTIruJ.inous consent on page 6, line 3 to change Heffectlt to !1influence':. Also on page 7, .f line 9 - the same change. There was no objection. Croft proposed amendment to page 6, lines 10 and lla He had a ne,,1[ tr e tr • McVeigh so moved and asked ·unanimous \,~' \ consent. There was no objection. Orsini on page 6,· lines 16 and 17. Delete It,U and the rest of the sentence in that phrase. Orsini moved and asked unanimous consent. Malone objected for purposes of discussion. Banfield asked if there could be a time when the major battle is in the primary. Tillion has no objection t6 this amendment. Malone removes his· objection and the Orsini amendment was adopted. --..-.._.-.- ... -,....-.-----p ,i"rker·····sa i Ci--that.. ,'t'he" purp'Os e--f 6:0'- -th·e-$50·; 00 0·' "'vias---that- ......-c,.•.._ ..__ . . a guy could be using all his money in the primary so in the final he doesn't end up having none for the general election. This covers the governor arid the lieutenant governor. Orsini ~\li thdre1-'T his amendment. More discussion on this point brought out that a can- . didate could spend 99 per cent in the primary and'have . only 1 per cent for the general~. The Orsini amendment was restated an4 adopted; There was no objection. Malone said you were setti~~ the li~it. Croft sugg2sted st;:;''"'iking tl1'~ iTse!'nicolon lt 2.~1'::l ~dc1ing !i.2.nd !'LO tTlore t.han 60 . . per cent in the general elect:Lon campaign II. Malone moved and asked unanimous consent on page 7, l~ne 9 to change Ite'ffect II to trinflu2Dce It • Also on line 22. Orsini moved on line 10 to insert the 1;'lords Itor ballot -245- ----------------------- Page 418----------------------- .t'age '::J . • .L. • It I propo3lvlon > objected. too> t I S.3 T·;IclJ_().L'12 2LL3l-~1~d rlO\l[ t[1~Ls \/ril~L i)i'~ i:l '>Ii·t~-l t{12 rM~'2~)'!=: (;I~ \ the bill. Tillion this is the first step in substantive \' changes. McVeigh was curious as to whether this would , cause troubl~ for the state in their bonding propositions~l Pamphlets and ballots--Nould it affect that? Croft said I he was dubious in getting into' another area. You will I 'have a problem with that. Orsini's amendment was not I voted in. i Orsini moved to amend on .page 8;, line llt. Delete Horlt 1 and insert Hand H .. He asked unanimous consent. You have I to appoint· a trea3urer--it is like an income tax form. I. Malone asked how substantial this change was. He said 1 he was in favor of it. Tillion asked Senator Croft his opinion on this change. Orsini couldn't see why the candidate couldn't sign the reports. Croft said he didn't see any nec~ssity for it. It might be difficult ,for the candidate. to get together 1jIJith .the campaign. ! treasQrer. We have a provision that it voids the electionl if there is anythi.ngthat is i~1.correct. 'One example;)· I . \ T/Tould be a false statement. O:;~sini asked about 'an ! accounting error--it wouldntt be a willful false state':'" .1 mente Croft said he meant if they fail to make dis- ~ closure. The candidate takes the responsibility for the correctness of the report. Chance said the treasurer /" should be able to sign the report and get it in the ·mail. \'-. McVeigh said there are cases where the candidate is gone away some where and the reports are transmitted in the . mail. Orsini's motion failed. Orsini moved to amend on page 9;, line 14. He said that it seemed to him that when ide say Uto be n \'Je ,are talking about the f:uture tense. Sometime·. 30 days prior to the furnishing of ' these services the s~ppliers have to report these things. Banfield said that was right. Oraini said if it is the future tense--that isn't a ._. __ ._._______.._._ .._....._...__ .._... good .provision __ ._That WOUld. prevent ..2.ny... last;.minute _____ ._______ 0_ insertion of ads. Croft said one was a provision to know who to followup on. The supplier would furnish these services to the candidate. Orsini said you need a couple more ads in the newspaper at the last ~inute--what then? Croft said this doesn't apply' until after the election anyway. On ~ine 6 you are substituting Hinfluence" for the'word tTfurthering" .. Banfield thought that furthering was the better word. Orsini said 'VIi'e had talked abo~J.t, the group th.2~t Td2..S in oppos~tion. With that wo~~i~g the opposicion group-- a record would not have to be 22intained for those services. McVeigh moved the amendments. Chance ·objected. Croft asked if we were goi.ng to eliminate "furthering". ! / Banfield Sb moved and asked unanimous consent. Th~re was no objection. I I \ ----------------------- Page 419----------------------- J _J/ .:.:~) Page 10 ! I I Orsini said that on page 9--this might be a c6nceptual ISB 388' . ~ fl,::-lil.-)l:l \jEt:6Ll2. P_r1~.rt-irrt:2 tr:a·~ 2/f.)~: ::~~_l!TL:--n;:!.~"~~s\:;· ~jO·:J.. 1-1~i\J2 .tr~e ,fC:~~~ problem of distorting. Tbis is at the bottom of pa~e L 8 and the top of pAge 9. There i~ further reference 2~\;~lV: ton to s'ummarles being prep2.re<1. Tillion said he d~Ldn r t Carnpaigns see anything wrong with that. Orsini said it might be after the primary election. It might be a one-sided thing and when they prepare a surnmary it might be detri- mental. Orsini moved on p2.ge 8, .line 28 to strike \\Jithin one month the commission' shall prepare a summary. Orsini moved to delete all mater:Lal' after Hwi thin lion page 9, line 17 to the top of page 9. Croft thinks that is important. There is 8022 obligation on,the part of the commission to prepare.'" this information in a reaqily understahdable-for~. It is after the primary and the commission will come out \\{ith a bipartisan basis and that is what the public will see said Orsini. He didn't think it was a good idea. Tillionsaid that ~nstead of listing the co~tr~butors--they say and this g~oup. . .. Orsini 2.me!.'1ded :lis r;J,o-':,ion lI~'iithin one' month the commission sh;::-1.. 11 prepare a surml1ary of!l. Croft 3Ugge3tsd that each r2port ~hall be ~~dc ..... ";- ..... ; 1 _.:. - <.....t. V .......... ...t....1... able to the public at cost upon request. Orsini moved his initial amendment. There was,no objection. Croft returned to the amendment on page 7~ line 8. -Instead of using fffurnishingll it should be flcontributingrT. Chance so moved and asked unanimous consent. There was no objection. Orsini talked about ai'l1ending page 10, line 17. This ties' in \'\lith the preceding page. vlhen the violation of the chapter is alleged. Tillion thought this should say when an action is brought. McVeigh asked why. Tillion said this was because you didn't just allege something~ you would have had to take legal action. Croft asked if'this would be rather than a stat~ment. He said this .. -.,- ,.-.--'--'--"----a c t i 0 n- "shall"--he- - b rought-'" in '-t h e- - s up re me --" c 0 u rt ~'---.' Cro ft didn't think this changed anything. McVeigh didn't think it did either. On line 17 Nhen Han action is brought II instead Tf of "'Then 3. '7iolat ion of this' chapter is ,allegedH • Orsini T;\lithdre~-'i his amendment. ' Orsini felt we should change the language on page' 11,. line 11. The second ffittT ste.rts to get confusing. He-suggested changing it to lithe commission" .. Croft said that "it n referred to the chapter. OrSini' 1/Jithdre\~T his am2(:d;-;-'.'?{lt., Malone suggested a chang2 O~ page 12, line 6. After the word l!islT insert !fto influ::?::12e tf • He so moved ·and asked unanimous consent. There Nas no objection. -247- \ \ ----------------------- Page 420----------------------- ' 3/261 I rage 11 ! 11cVeigh .illoved on page 12, 1 in'" 7 f-o rh"nrr~ IIpnfi" t:o lIor" I : I T~l,::'~)~:; -i·F~L) r~o OlJj2~_:Sj_:);1 L>:) th~L:; ~;~l;~1;~-.-~'~b'-~ --'-- -.- C/ ~. • 153 33c~1 • I There was a question on page 12> lines 16-18. It refers II I f to a gr6up organized for more than one year preceding an I ~'lV7--i OYt __ 1._ •.•• _", '..,I -"_ .J... election. Cr'oft said that '\"ias a~l attempt tOv'Trestle w.ith ' ii' Campaigns bona fide groups or groups th~~.were ~rying to evade tt.le II' II purposes of the Act. It clarlIles WhlCh groups are con- trolled by the candidate or not. Malone suggested that he would like to leave page 12 open and have a little time to check further into this matter. Randy has a question. All the way through the bill--the way it is written you have been using group in a particu- lar sense and whether. the reference is beginning to enlarge and cover both a group and a person. He felt we should consider this aspect. Croft said this is a group as defined by the section.' Tillion said that any time you have them forming here ahead of time and endorsirtg more than one cand~date, you could hardly expect it·to be under the contr61 of the candidate. Orsini said that earlier he had had a question about not having t9 state membership" etc. Tilli_on' said that will be covered under--when they are ~nfluenc1ng the election they will be considered as contributing.· Chance moved to amend on line 8 by including hdates if available!!. There was no objection. She had asked unanimous consent. Croft on page 9--suggests you eliminate on line 5, both Hparty and committee" It applies only to a can- didate or a group. This is because of the way you have 'defined rr group If Chance moved and asked unanimous con-- sent to adopt this amendment. There was no objection. Malone said he had a question on page 12. Back to the groups not controlled by the candidate,. If the group is in existence a year preceding the election and they ---.--,,---.----.-.. ---.--.-.--- ·-------·-eridorse·-candidates--f6r-"mor-e---than '--One -off'ice--Tf--is--·pre.-:.----·--·- sumed not to be controlled by the candidate. They wouldn t \ operate if the group was controlled by the candidate. Croft said that if you get into a dispute--this says . there is a presumption. You could prove othervrise.. He ·~a1d it seemed to him th~~e would have to be.a reason~ble effort·to prevent a candidate being charged with actually ~ont~ollin~a group when most would say he is not. There would b~ a presumptibn if the group has been in operation for ~ore than a year. McVeigh said there are groups that j € xis t for p i..L r po S e S 0 f 1i f e 2_ ~l3 tLC a n c e" for eX E=t np 12) you , I I can't do t~is to get group insu~~nce ..You ca~ get group - I insurance for a group that has bther purposes. Malone said you could prove the contr2.:t'y, but his question was ans~'Jered . ----------------------- Page 421----------------------- Chance moved that the bill as amended be put out of com- n~ Ri ~~ t~ '2~; ~ ;f3 t~.:: .9. () 1\= e (1 L1. r~ ·3.. ~~~ ~_::) 1._~_ 3 C .~ ~ .3 ":; .n t 0 ~J r> ~:; -"L ~.L 0 b.j .~ (~ t ':: c~ l~.()l~) ~1'1'2 r)t)~~~p03:?; oL~ zo~~rlg '~~-~~~~:;~;_g[: p2_.'62S 1-5. Orsini has the basic quest~on on the form~tion of the C0111'11ission. One of the things that vras talked about was havi.ng the parties basically form the commission. This would be unfair to the parties. The initiative does this. It seefued to him that 2/3~ under the initi- . ative, of partisan people ~'/hich is a greater number than ~-the initiative d6esn T t seem to see that· as a problem. Orsini moved that the commission be formed of six names II submitted by each of the major political parties--the g6vernor will select three each from these and the i . maj ori ty of the commission 1,'[ill select. the seventh person _If. McVeigh objected. Motion failed.' . . . . . '. . . . . Malone said there was a question that came up_ This was I about the appointing pOlder .. Maybe the court systeEl didn ttl wan~ to get involved. Tillio~ said there was',a;prbblem I of in~olving the court in legisla~ive matters. Croft . I ~~~~~~ Wi~1~~~h~~~p~~~~~~~~~e_~~a~~~t?:~~~2~ ~:e~~t~.. ~~_~h~~~ I" Vl..L VU 6J.J·· .l.LJ.C;; aLG .J..llVV.J..VG\.... ...:...:.1 '-,.!.lC uC.l..C::'Vi.J.l..V.!.l 'J.L.'Ju.u;::,;:::.:::> ail'vi. Ii the judicial council participates in thts .. Chance said that as a practical matter it is the Chief Justice ·that I is named here. If there were a court case he, would have . to disqualify himself. Croft said that the court has rulel making power. You can challenge a rule in the court. I· Orsini suggests on page 1 that instead of who may not b~ I' a member of the same political party change this to "one from each maj or poli tj_cal party. Tt On a vote on the motion Tillion 2 Banfield and Orsini voted Yes. Malone, Chance and McVeigh voted No. Motion failed. Malone on page 2, line 14~ paragraph (f). The second sentence--a vacancy. What that means is that a quorum of three could exercise all the powers of the commission . .. _._.- .. __ .... Croft-"-said that-doesn't-mean··an--absence;···'·r!ialone 'said'that ..._.... _-_ .... __ .....--. as a practical matter so the cOlThllission could go about· their business--this was for a bare quorum. What if they voted on something and the vote was 3-2, would it . carry. Tillion said it would. Page 2; Orsini suggested on line 19 that ~'le change tt 30 H to "15 T1 • Chance objected. By this you will tighten the time periods. If you h~ve somebody missing for a month it.. is a significant time period. Malone said it '~\Tould l bp (3 de::r+- 1 0'/)'· a '-Gr-r ,··::>-/)-1.~lO~ i llYlPC·s Hi::::: mo~·-.; ,0' ',:."_, ~2_'Ll '?(·l·. '"' _ c. v L 1. c ./ ,~ ~ ::> c- '. ..!. V U 0 ___ c ~ - .:::> -. . '-' ". v ~ _ __ .. _ ._ '- I i 1 J (5) .. Orsini on page 3, line .J._.) • This deals with the If question of summaries. He should deal Hi th it herE;, also., -249:- ----------------------- Page 422----------------------- ?age 1.3 I-Ie 0 cL:(~:~i ~t~ (~'Jl10~~~~') ·c::::nt.: . /"'~(l~jj s"a=Lci ~·'./2 -s t~i~Ll 11d'~-'2 El S Ur:1C2.C'Y unde r (10). He S J.i c1 1;-12 S t i 11 ne -2d the s um~-:!.2.ey of the groups. Croft commented on page 9, lines 17-19. Malone moved to delete a summary on page 3, line 13. Chance objects .. Banfield asked what was t~e -purpose of the summary. Croft said in the larger campaigns the information may be overwhelming. Like in the pri- mary, unless you can group it. In section 110 that might be easily solved--jou might want to add all . summarizing sho'uld be so that all candidates are ·treated in the sam6 manner. This is what was implied. It might b~ preferable to eliminating the summary. Orsini said he would accept that. Tilliori asked where you could add this. Croft said to add it at the bottom of page 8. Malone thought this was a good idea. Proper wording will be prepared. Orsini had, further amendment on page 3}. line· 18. He asked a.bout th2' 1160 tI da.Ys. VJhy· 60 -days? Croft said they felt that the commission' should have a time f'rame in w'hich to I prepare' the report. This ~\ra3 to force the commisston to I make the report within that time period.. They need a ! period of time·to investigate and theydonJt get some of i the material until 30 days after the election.Therefore~· this seems to be the minimum time.that could be required. Orsini said the report could be detrimental to the can- didate and they would have only a few days in which to reply_ Tillion said he felt it would take that long to • prepare a report. Orsini moves to' change this .to 1f40H instead of tr60tt. Banfield called the question and the motion failed. Malone asked if there was' some way to change th~ language to reflect the intent or pu~pose'of the report. The repor~ is t6 report violations to the AG. Couldn't we say that? As to reporting violations, Orsini suggested .. " ': .. that subparagraph 8 be amended by adding HimmediatelyH . . on line 22 between. the \vords Itto H and rrreDort TT • Tillion . ---·-·-···--·---···--·-·---·-----··-··tllought··i·t---~10uld b e-··bet·t·er.piace·Ci-·in .{7-Y··:1; It·····sho-ulci"-say··:·-------·----·--- as soon as possible but no more than 60 days. After the ~vord trwi thin tI j_nsert rr as soon as but no more than tr • He .moved and asked ill1animous consent. This is online l8 .. After further discussion this motion was withdrawn . . Page 4, lines 6 and 7~ Orsini said this was housekeeping amendment· and deals with "equal to or". VIe are talking- about contributors who contribute in excess of $100. This says equal to. Banfield said this was to cover I \ ... the in-kind contribution. ~cVeigh said that equal did' not refer to tha amount of ~oney_ Groft said he didntt· I have ani' objection tb the amendment. Orsini so moyed I and asked unanimous consent. There was no objection. ··.·v Orsini wanted to am~nd on page 5, line 20. He wanted to add the words !!\'lithin 48 hours of appointment II • He . suggested this because there is no time limit. Croft -250- ----------------------- Page 423----------------------- Page iL~ j3/26 doesn't see thi~ as being necessary. O~sini withdrew his motiOD. f iSS 388 In t h'2 f 0 110W ~ ;:': ~s :3 e c t 1 on} fJ ~S ~~_ :1:i d ~~ j not .~~ hi n k t his ;,'[ a.. S I c6nstltutional. Randy said the intent was to apply to groups as well as 'u a person.!!. Croft .agreed wi ththis. This is in the statutory sense. Randy noted that a group f' ~)r~'D" J" o'ns I 'v ....,t. 41.t Ck ~ 0 is spending it themselves. Is a group not controlled by a candidate subject to this limitation? Croft said No .. Banfield asked if this included contributing in kind? Croft said it did. It does this under the definition- al' contribution. Orsini moves to strike fino person rr on page 5~ Chance objection. Motion failed. I I Croft returned to the change at the bottom of page 8 and top of page 9.' You could reinsert what has been deleted' and add at the end of line 2 on page 9 - Beach ·surn.iuary should establish a category of reporting which shall be uniform either for each off~ce or for all candidates--' whichever way you want to say it. Fran suggested that I '.llP. ~8y. rfc_'h~'ll n+-o{ 1 i ... p lln-; t"',,,~-'">-:;: n~+-~Cio-(>i ,=-~ "p ... "]"""> ·y>p-oorf-iYl.-y-ll Of ~ ...... _v u __ "-..... __ -,,-v-L-L._Ll-.- "-' L_-:-~ v~ - __ '-'-V-a""" __ "-U _ ,-,_ _ _..... __ "J-J..J.. .. I o . Orsini moved and asked unanimous consent for that amend- [ ment. There was no objection. ~l~~lon sald we wou~d have to have a Judiciary C3 after drafting all these changes. Chance moved and asked unanimous consent for a CS to be draTv'1n .and the -J'J.diciary .CS be reported out wi th a HDo Pass 11 recommendat.ion. Orsini obj ectecl. . All signed uDo Pass f! except Orsini 1'1110 signed "No rec It •. of Court Tillion brought up HB 811 - Seals of Court. McVeigh HJ3 811 didn't see what difference it makes what the seal says. Randy said there are statu~es that set up the seals for each level of court. When they go into the service areas they have problems. Malone moved and asked unan- imous to' report out HB 811 ~'li th a liDo Pass rr recoITlLl1enda- tion. The bill was Signed out. Tillion, Malone, Chance, McVeigh and Banfield Signed liDo Pass T7 ; Orsini ___ .~._ ..._____ .______ .___ .. ___~_?~_?_~.~~.___ ~_l!'!~___ E_~? H~:.__________ .______ ..__ .. ______________________ .. _______________________ .__ ,___________ .._____ .__ .__ .______ ..._. ___ .___ __. .~__ ._ Meeting adjourned at 6:00 D.ll. -251- ----------------------- Page 424----------------------- Ij/,/ ( Y' ............. .,...-......---. -'-T'"'I",.......,- r"f ........ (\ T-."T'~ ,..... ~7\I"' .... ~..-,..,...,.r-M.,..-,...--. nu U 0r.J d U V.L \..1 ..LAf\..L v Vl'U'l..L 1. ,U':JiJ MINUTES OF THE MEETING Me.rch 27, 19'(4 Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order ~n Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments at 3:12 p.m. Present were Tillion, Malone, Banfield, McVeigh, and Berry. The first item of' discussion was HB 543 - Unfair trade Unfair trade practices and consumer protection. Tillionasked th~ 543 practices committee's opinion on this bill. 'Malone asked him to giv~ some of his opinions gained from work on this. bill in the Com...ilerce· Com,,'11ittee. Malone asked also to have someone from' the AGTs office appear before the committee to testify on this bill. Tillion said the main presentation was made by Stan Howitt and one of the biggest problems they have had is how to· get aho~d of people that come through the state with various schemes. One was a,special water~' proofing truck. By the time-it 7v'Tas proven. not to be waterproof, they had already'left the state .. This was a spray covering of plastic and it was 'a cutrate. Th~y ! worked their way up to Fairbanks and then to Tok~ By I that time some of the plastic was already peeling. There 'li ". wash't anything you could do to them. Another was people . selling subdivisions. They advertise what they are like ' and maybe only one will be that way. Some of these are tfoutside ff • They may advertise a view lot when you investi ' gate you find that maybe only one has a good view. t· . Tillion said this also covers pyramid sales. Thi~prob~blY would stop Tupper1vare. He said the ories that are bad . ~ike cosmetics, would be covered under this bill. Malone said there was also the problem with a franchise. You are sold a franchise and the. first thing you know~ everyhody ends up with a franchise. Then you have no J ~ .• market. That leaves you caught with ali the stock. .~ ..'J?e.ople . "'I.Quld have to be stupid to do this, .. but Tillion says they still do it. Mr ..Don Dickey was present at the Commerce Corn_mi ttee hearings. He said the understanding is that when the' bill was e:qacted that Commerce had part ,of it and ,the' rest in the AGts Dffice. They had to duplicate the investigative work. With the start of the pipeline the practices will increase. He felt this legislation was of Value. Apparently Mr. Mike Thomas, ~n attorney. "for ·the insu.rance people, \'ras affected and he said they 'tvey'e 8ove~.r)ed u~:~\.~l~-:;r some of the ()t;!l2r) st~3.tLite3 ~.' ~?~rr~1f~1il~l~ ing of sales was the other thing. -252-- ----------------------- Page 425----------------------- i"')/)'7 Page 2 I..) - . Tillion said a person has to be looking for an easy deal ! 1J Ll t ~L -c i ~3 tl S ~!~ 2~ 11~/ t Ii;:; ~i 0 1.J.. S ::-:: ~~~; ~_ f 2 :/Tl:C) i 3 t ~l ::: 0 :1·2 .' t:1. a t; '.~~; 9 t 3 1 CaLl[S~~r.t ~Lrl t~tlJ_S " r/lc'~/2=L~:;('~ 3.S~'~2·'_: ~~bOl~t~ p2_ge 2) ~Line It). rr'hat nl2a~~s ::Lf you 2:r2 selling ~~J';I2rsa;,'rs i::l the treeo. and you have a sale on you hav-eto state the number you have for sale at that price. Tillion said if you are a Unfai l' t ra.de supply house and you run a special. Maybe you have only practices two or three of these. It is a slick trick to pull the people in to your store. Banfield said that grocery stores have sales like this and they don't anticipate the run on a particular item. They didn't intend to run out--what happens to them? Tillion said the bill shows that you have to have intent. She said she- hoped people understood that before they Bade their complaints. Malone said they (the merchants) could say HHhile the stock lasts fj ~ This could apPlY. to goods o:.r appliances--thenthere is a· ..J' cut off. No intent to not provide·the services. Some places just like to dump stock and have no intent to . provide services. This is different. Lik~ on appliances- . if the merchant is not going to provide service for such appliances-~then the public should know they before they buy ~. McVeigh asked about the penalty. Tillion said it was in 3 and 4 and must be in existing law. Randy said sec- tion (a)' of this bill gives them for violation of 471. He will check the statutes for the other. Mr. Dickey, Chamber of Cor.~-rnerce, thought it was on page 5. It is in the new bill but not in the old one. Mc Veigh was looking at the wrong bill. Banfield asked if there was anything in here that a legitimate business- man could complain about. She also wanted to know if this included magazine salesmen that travel through the country_ Tillion said that is prohibited here in the bill. There was discussion.about the changes in this bill as opposed to the Comrnerce Committee substitute. Malone asked about page 3, lines 18-24. What is the practical effect .of .that? .... Banfield._ said_.that ...it___ made __ ..__..~~__ .__ .------ ..:..---. ·"--'·_-'''·-chain referral sales plans as defined in the original bill illegal. Tillion said that· was right. This included all major distribvtors making a discount con- tingent on past performance but doesntt allow that for future sales .. McVeigh asked what this did. Tillion said they try to get you to sign a promissory note-- everyone in the ·coTn.tllunity ends up having a distributor- ship. Banfield said she couldnTt see where this did anything about pyramiding. McVeigh felt 2S if this wou!d cover pyramiding. There is a big sche82 in Florida. Tillion said th~t was COSCOM. TillloD said that Stan Howitt says -253- ----------------------- Page 426----------------------- I :5/ c I rage 3 this controls it. asked why this language ~as changed f~om the original ! bill. Banfield asked if this ,,'las Stan Howitt f s amendment. 1 Tillion said it was. Tillion said the committee (CommerceD asked that Stan Howitt bring back language so it would be I clearer. The AG's office wrote it'up_ If you use a sales referral plan--this explains it more. McVeigh said it says that if a guy comes to your door now~-says he is going to sell you this item which costs $lOO--then he says he will give it to you if you give him the names of your neighbors to whom he can sell this product. Tillion continued Dn this--and for every person who signs we will drop your price by such and such a percentage., " Ban~ield S~id she was concerned about the person who buys I a distributorship and think they have their own territory. I. She couldn't see where it took care of that. ,Malone said' that was covered in number (20). McVeigh said that you 'get these salesmen going from door' to door 'selling say Singer Seviing Machines'., If you will gi verne tl;.2 name of someone else--they will make you a good deal.' Miss O'Connell from the AGts office arrived to testify.' l I On page 3, 11ne 18--she said this was a 'compromise on the I definition. It was more ext~nsive in the original hill. We believe that this statute addition will generally cover / this as well ~s the other one did. ~" McVeigh asked what this meant in a true-to-life situatibn~, Miss O'Connell said that there is a chain type referral the seller of a produ~t says~ OK~ we wi1l sell you this but we can get you' a rebate if you get some of your neighbors to buy this product in the future. They might also say if you give us the names of other people who will buy, we will give you the rebate. What usually happens is that the person can't find any referrals~ ,They have lead the person to believe that the purchase, __ '__ ' _____ '.__ ' ~,. __p~.:ice__ "'!~llJJe_taken care, of by this system._"This is,.c ___ .___ , similar to pyramiding sales plans. The only difference is that this is referrals to other people. Malone commented on a person selling sewing machines.' TheY,sell them to three or four people and say to them 1,'Ifyou get us some referrals a percentage of the cost is'knocked offn. The next group of people try to do the same. thing. ' After the second or third person down the ,line--it is not a gdod deal any more. McVeigh said these last people might riot know of any previous sales and they I, get stuck. B2nfiel~ asked about if the salesman says t? give him the name of two people anj then he would give the~ a lo~er price. McVeigh read from the bill showing it has to be a contract. He asked Randy to explain the definition of chain distribution:schemes. This is on page 6, lines 8-11. -254- ----------------------- Page 427----------------------- _,/ c._ ( P.::ro-p 11· -·0 . Miss OrConnell said these are difficult because they Individuals are solicited to buy a position in a co~­ pany--they invest·a large amount of money for the ability to perpetuate the chain. The limitation is the number of persons that participate. The company I says they are going to limit it to a certain number I, of positions. Randy said that the bill said they would limit--but it doesn't say what they will limit. Miss O'Connell said there must be something missing .1 here. She said it should say i limitation to the number I'. of people who participate or any other conditions that do ndkeep this from being a chain distributor scheme~ 1 What we are saying is that thj_s ~'lill not exempt· them from being a chain dis~ributor~~ . McVeigh said it was not complete because the phrase \.'las hanging out there wi~hout a verb. Miss otConnell said she would have t6 gO back to her office and get the -;"fords for this. '-' . ! Bowman said he had the sa~e information that she did. I Tillion said that the d2fi~ition was added in C0mmerce~ I This "vas taken from ~\fards or Sears,· etc. Randy said . ·1 he Lhou.ghc Gha.t; a line had been lef't out.. Miss 0 i ConneJ...1 said that was right. When this was typed they dropped one line. This is bet"t'Jeen Trreceipt ofl1 and Ifdlstributor H scheme • Tillion suggested adding flprofits therefrom u and itwouldnTt change the idea of the chains as a dis- . tributor scheme. McVeigh thinks the nAsH should be the beginning of a new sentence. O'Connell objected because the drafting manual says it has to be drafted this way_ . B~nfield moved and asked unanimous for the adoption of her amendment. It .was adopted. Tillion asked Miss OrConnell to give a presentatlon on the changes made from the original governor's bill. She said that in the definitions there was some change in the wording.· Another change was the repeal of the exemption provision. This is extremely ..yague oH_ ••_Th1s ______ ..._.. was -a comprornise· to make it more specific on Page· 4, lines 8 and 9. OrConnell said that ·the first three . lines of section 2, (1) was the basic original sec- tion that they wanted to· h-ave repealed. In an attempt to -vlork out a c.ompromise the second tv-IO· underlined lines portioris would make it more specific so that we were· not completely left up in the air as to when the statute applies. This was brought up by the insurance department. P.- <::!. ~_2..' ;:::> 5 0 f t h c> CS 1 inc ;::> ll_ - +-}-,; C" T1 ::J 1,.. C> C l" t- a Ini co ~ em A '::\ Y1 0 Y>. \ - CJ~_._,__ ...... "-.. s...) --- '- _. .,J ___ -.J ••--"'~'-0 v 1 _ul..t .......... _.... '-"c.... l. .... _ :i.e 2.ddition t:::-, t:-:.::-:, fi~12. ~~~..:..;::; ~.;2.~~ 5~].2;·;2ste::t by the st::.t<:: I I effective. Thi3 would be especially true in fly-by-night ventures. so th2Y ~\ronf·t-.;lea.ve the jurisdiction ...'. We have already discussed chain distributorship and definition of chairi referral with the new language. -255- ----------------------- Page 428----------------------- . Page 5 I I Malone had a question on Page 4 of the CS, lihes 4~9~ . . I I i Under the 2xisting l~w ~5.50.481. wh~t ar2 the exe8pti0ns . HB 543 t Cl L~ 6' ~L . ,::t:-: d 411. ~\T {:i a~ .i s ~ [~ '~~ 2 i' L:~ ,~t c) i-' ·t:oen'::: '"r l2.(L:; :X3. f~2 '1 . . I I O'Connell said that the first three lines are very vague. 'i UlV.l.r trade They leav~ us with massive laws and the statement that if ~) ract i ce s this act or transaction is permitted under those laws ~ then we can't go in and operate there. ·This is up for interpretation. Lines 8 and 9 attempt to clarify that we are dealing with these specific practices. The insur- ance codes and bank codes cover some of these and weren't going into these. It is still somewhat vague. We though' it was ag.oOd compromise. Tillion asked what change it needed to be made. She said they just needed to repeal .!.!.o rrhat 1\Toulri bY>i DO' .l...hp in~uY>~n""c. c:Jt::>·o'-'r~maYl.L. 'oa·ctr Ulnde-r J.. v.. __ . J.. 11· .,-" _ .._ .'0 v_ ~ .- _>0 _ :-_.kV~ .l~ ... G. VL viJ.V. -'- -~ _. I . it. Tillion asked if this was a necessary part6f the . U bill. Randy suggested that on Line 5 delete "permitted ·and say instead "regulatedtf.· atherwiseyou have an internal conflict~ This change was adopted. He said, he thought the things we \'iere talking about\ITere under some other regulatory scheme·. Malone asked if he meant I the way ~t reads now. O'Connell said that was right.l : i Randy ask~d areonnell if that would accomplish her pur- ·1 pose. Sh; sa.icl. tha.t j.t \,'Tould. 1VT8.1onp -s'ai d t:hi.s1,'ioll-1 d r make it so that an act or transaction covered under regu- I latory boards· or commissions are exempt 'unless the la'Vlj~ . ! declares the practice under 471 illegal. Randy asked if. there was anything in sections 471 to 561 that applied ( to the insurance department. Tillion said we were only. letting out the insurance industry. McVeigh added that this was exempting language. Bowman said he felt th.::l.t the banking industry also vTas excluded6 They weren't quite sure that they 1t'ITere exempt so this was t~1e added language they wanted . .McVeigh said we ~vere saying in effect that if there are. practices declared unlawful under 471 of this chapter-- all transactions are covered except those tr~nsactions .. which are cove~ed by ot~e: ~~gUlc:-t ory:L. ~:ction~.· of' th~ ...! --~1ii-d~:~r~~~a~g~i~a~~W~~G~~t~:~~i~~~~r~;1~n~~~~;h~~~~thlSI·--"'--·-·········-'_··· unless that act were.§~eeifically permitted. Emmitt L. \\filson~ Commissioner of the Department of. Corn_merce, felt I that the word tfpermitted lT should be changed to lfregulatedtTll --it makes more sense. He said that was the. reason he I came to the meeting today. He said initially we use the t word·' "pe,rmittedlf and if it is going to be regulated under the department it has to be trregulatedlf. lVIr. Don Koch sa.=Ld that this amendment 1,.~Tould have to be made in two places. Berry said th~t it would read: Nothing in sec- I t :LO:1S· 471-561 of th~L:3 . chapter ap pli::: :3 to an act. ortc3.rls- {- action regulate0 under laws adQini3tered by the state I uriless the law .regulating the act doesn't prohibit. the act. McVeigh moved and asked unanimous consent for the L adoption of this amendment. ·-256- I I ----------------------- Page 429----------------------- \ 3/27 Page 6 r;; r. D0 r). D=L ::; !~{~ e y 2. S l~ 2 ,::1 i E' t.:; ~l 2.3 ~/i i 1).. ~') e (J 11 i r ,0::;: .:;:. f~ r (~ ~l sf:? ~ I:I">OI!l t tl~3 .D~::~p 0rtrne r1 t~ J.J: CCj!~l:J.2 ~.:~ ~~ t: 0 t; [Ie ~~G 1 s 0 f f~L c f~ > Greonnell s~id they had p~t in for the increased ma~~ :fT, power for that particular item in the budget. i'T'{'~)'~lY> i'rarle Ii,) .:..-LG ~ ....1 '- IIJr"'ciCt i (~e s rpillion said there would D.2.";I2 to be a CS for HE 543- Banfield moved and asked unanimous consent to prepare a CS and to sign it out lIDo Pass ll today. Til1ion, Malone~ Banfield" and McVeigh signed "Do Passu on 1 CSHB 5 +3. Orsini' signed tt~'T() rec rr. ( Orsini arrived at 4: 00 p.m. ) . I :Platting pO'wers HB 445 - Platting powe~s of ~unicipalities. This is 1 lHB 445 rof mun:Lcip. the second CS·that the Judiciary Committee has prepared. Banfield said she thought that if the muriicipality~wasnTt I going to provide open spaces or-parks they couldntt take I any of the land. Malone said he thougttwe left it up to the municipality to deal with by ordinance~ Banfield asked how this was going to be accomplished and how CQuld . ~ou make the municipalities do this. Malone said he , 1 "t' l' Id ' ..' 0 ,:J 0 . . ~nougn~ ne ~aws wou . nave ~o oeenlorceu. rSlnl moved and asked unanimous ccnsent to adopt the second CS for HB· 445. There "if.TaS no _obj ectiorL Orsini mO'Ted and asked unanimous' consent for liDo Pass" on 2d CSHB 445_ Tillion, Malone, Orsini, and f!IcVeigh Signed ltDo Pass rr ; Banfield Signed UNo rec tf • HB B17 - Corrective amendments to the Alaska Statutes as recommended by the revisor of statutes. Randy said HB B17 that a lot of the changes were citations or minor wording sor of changes. There are two or three areas where the changes were made due to court decisions. Randy said that AS 12 was to be amended so that you have one place 'in Title I dealing with general provisions that cover the whole book of statutes. Then it would be . clearly stated that if you cite a person under one statute it includes any amendments that have been made unless it· ....___ .... __ ._____._.._..._.._...____ ..._._____ is specif.ically._ stated .. that___ it_.does__ not .-.include ... any __ cha.nges .._._ .._.___ .__ ..._. ! Unless you freeze the point 'Hhen you refer to the citatIon I . it continues to carry that way even ·if there are amendment~' . made to it at a.later date! . .' . . He said since there are only first and second class cities now we don ft· say cities of If any. class f1 •.. There. are provis- ions also made' that removed requirements that a person be a citizen of the United St2tes for licensing of various occupational licensing. This is in Title OB. You have I had to ~e a citizen to be 2.,:)12 to take an examih2,-tion for I ! a license. This new ~arrs~age ~emoves that requirement. I This is because you cann~t discrimin2te against resid~nt I aliens. l I I ! I I t -257~ i ! i i I ----------------------- Page 430----------------------- I f Malone said that he was interested in sections 3 and' I 4 about 'occup2tional lic2~3i~g. This r8~ove3 t~2 re1uir~-! I ~i·~ (; ':1 .~: f:· ~·l. ;J. L-': c~ ::: "(' ~: .~_.f· "L r:; ;~!. :;J 1#;_ ~.~: J_ ~~_ '.~ 2~ .: .~ (~; :). D (: ~~; r:. t~ :3 :,/2 ';.-~ {) ~) 2 .:; ~L t I_ ~ ,'. I ~en3 in order to be licensed. Randy said they would IRa 817 still have to be a resident of the state. TillioD said there was a similar with Fish and Game where you have to have lived here 12 months 7 but you don't have to be a I bill citizen. The person can be a citizen for everything I ·but voting. Randy ILsted those that were not covered under this. He took this provision out of five sections I since this was a United States Supreme Court decision. I McVeigh commented on these sections. AS 08.04.110(1) says citizen of the United States or declared your intention of becoming' a citizen. He asked if Randy was repealing that under accountants. Randy said that the~e people could become accountants if they werenrt ·even a citizen. You cannot discriminate against resi- dent aliens. Tillion said that we no longer require .the declaration of intent papers. You come over her~ now and take out the papers and when y6u have. lived here' Tr'p t-hr'~a ~TeaY>:::, "'(i',lU n;::.>1"1 ~D"\l\,. .poY> -::Tol:"Y>r>-~.L-i7:::>Y\·S}I';n "~?':-''->'l). - J - V .: .L • C '- ;y ... ~ U J J v . v,"""" -' - ~;.. ~ _L J 1.. ~ J u..L ,-,..L v _ ._J·~.t l .., __ ,_ ;:J a...1.. 1:.1 C .L t ~\fhich you take the test. Randy said this didn· t relax 2::::"Y () f t l'12 standards or reQ t~i r2~en.t sfer the c x8.wi~8.t ien. McVeigh asked if the court ruled that yo'u can't ·discrirn-· . inate against the resident alien. McVeigh asked if we had three categories:. citizen, alien, and the resident alien? Be~ry said we also have the resident alien who has not declared his intention to become a citizen. That is what we are deleting. Tillion said this is no lon~er a requirement of federal law. . Randy continued through his section by section'analysis' as outlined in his memo. This will be filed with 'the minutes. Section 5. Deletes the date in section 5.' ... Sect;Lons ·-6·.and 7. -··Substantialchanges····in'. the--statute,·_-e···_,,· on admission requirements to the bar. The Supreme-Court issued new rules for admission to the bar last June~' In the case that came out after that thei~ standards super- seded the statutes because they can license attorneys. Section 8. Same as above--to change to court decision. YbU cannot suspend 'a member 1'Jithout a hearing-:-for failurel to pay dues. This case was because the aDolicant had I applied for inactive status thereby refu~l~g to pay the active dues. Under the bar rules yo~ are not required I f-:n d~o' T.. h_·i.-::::. T'_n_p_~r rt_-j c::10;:1.. -:-'"·rpL~ i-n-i ~ .! y>rl-j "-1' a'L, ... -r -~~O"Y> V)n-....,D0J'-~On·L.t ~....- ~, _.V _ _ ~ ...., , ____ '.... , __ 0 ...!...!.l\....L v_ t~..c.... ..L .L . .!..!u. '-.L.'~ :... .ti~.. ~ __ l.JI·· of dues without a hearing. Section 9. There is a conflict in contract licensing and I the insurance code. The code provides that the Director ! of Insurance is the agent for service for out of state II insurers. You can serve the papers on the Director and I he will forward the papers. This would provide ~f you had\' \ -258- t ----------------------- Page 431----------------------- i' 3/27 ?age '7 (a) . 1 ! ::!.. clEt"i.T1 (1,~~~i(1.5·~ J.. ,~~:.)~tr)2_c-t:0~r ,3 :):)('~1 .~/OI__ 1 ~·[:Jt.llcl s~:;r}\.r·:: tr1('~ COn.::ti3:::;:}.on2L' ot' CO{f~~'1e:cce c,:;_t ;::.iJ. ~'l.C~ D:co'uide for th,,::: :~5 fE::2. This is an at~tt2rnpt to =-~2~!=e. t.~~·2 ·t~'TC COrl:3~Lsterlt. ~ It~ was'an administrative problem for them. (Sec. 10 is \'7:Lth 3 and L~) b11l Section 11. This is a definition of persons handling explo~ive~. The old law said persons employed in mines. Iii That has been repealed and this is a definition in almost every respect the same. Tillion said this is broader~ Mines and mining operatibns are t~o different things. I This deletes having t6 have ~n explosive handlers permit I because there are separate regulations that cover this-- ~ the safety standards of t~e state have to be met and thes~ a~e under the Department of, NatQral Resources. Section 12. There was an omission in the drafting of this .leg~slatio~. It was just an oversight. It omitted a trClass A Guide lt • . I Section 13. This is an under the 0edical' licens~ ing act. If you had ~ permit fer'isolated areas~-they no 11 longer have isolated areas. This is clean up languag~~ Sections 14 and 15. This relates to o~ticians. This is f necessary to remove a conflict. (Sec. 16 with 3 and 4) (Sec. 17 is'also with sec. 3 and 4.) Sections 18~ 19, and 20.' Jhis is a change in terminology. An act ,,'i'as passed last session that when a policeman stops a per~on for a misdemeanor instead of arresting them he would give them a citation and they have five days to appear. That act used the term arrest and there is a court rule that deals with ~nlS. The statute didn't say it·was ~mending the court rules. Randy said he changed the terminology to clear that up. This deletes the term rr arre s t rr • . ~~----~~~i;~~ai\Od~~iS is -a _langu2-ge change to _conform to -the. -I lf Section .22. This changes l1 s tate police to state trooperst It is a language update. SeDtion 23. This is'a language change. This' corrects reference to th~ department responsible for the issuance of vouchers from Revenue to Administration. Section 24. This is a langu2ge change. Covers initial ter~~ of"of:l·ce· for those 2o'.ooi~t2d to the Board o~ ~~~~ ~~~1 0~M~ _ ~ '!. __'-Vi.':' ::t.:lL US':"'r" All i~itial appointsents h~Y2 be2~ made so this language I· is no longer necessary. 1 Sectton. 25. '1 11is is a duplication. This is already taken care of in the general pen~lty provision. ----------------------- Page 432----------------------- : ~...J}. '-- • Pap.:e 8 Section 26. This is a residency change for aliens'for rrL"L:3 i z; i: 0:[' 2.I. L2~"l_S ~r ·2 L1 ~~ 1..:3 I') ~~ .=! Ll. ~~ r .~ c~. ::1 ~5 i-' l)" l~ ~3. :1.;1'" Q'::1 :.; ':",iS2. He- ,; SOl' of Instea,c1 of the t:lI'ee years ~nd this is in line with the I Supreme Court ruling regarding resident aliens. I I sL)utes , ! I bill This tel"m T;,Tas lODocrer for aliens than for TQ,rOne 01 (~e ape=-! ! 0._ ,J '-- _ U _.1...l. I you can't require that. Ti.lll."on noted that many NOrWegian, stayed in Petersburg and,they had a problem with this. ' Malone noted that on Page 8, line ll~ it was necessary i 1 ,to change flyears l! to tTyearn since we reduced 'C,' he time ·,fro.. m .1 three to one. Section '27. This prohibits the use of fishtrap~: A~d~~ I tional sections were added on this subject but 0ney IalLedj to repeal the law they were replacing. I Section 28. This was a change in the reporting date. This was because the session would not be convened by January 15, 1975, so we changed the date. Malone asked, 'if this ',lias a report by the 'Alaska CO:Tl.J.'TIercial Fish~~~eies I Entry Commission > Randy ::;aid tl--:9Y ~~[ere to provide alte:r')'::" I native methods of transferability. Tillion felt that it I' T,T-::lQ 11I"'l"Y"lCnCQc! ~Y>\f Tn 0h~nc"a +-:b-'i C! hC0::l11S~-i"·i-: T"r~i 1 1 h;:::. rlF'.:::Iri in, III'J'-'\..~ .~.J,..J..J..J."""'''''''' __ '''''''''~....I..J' \.Jo...J -----'"'-~o- ----- ....... ---- ....... ----- -~ .. ------: ._- --...... -' __ ... "___ • a little while. McVeigh asked why they would change this.1 Berry said because the Legislature wouldnrt be in session.l Banfield moved and asked unanimous consent to delete that section from the bill. There was no objection. Malone ( said ir it is'still in the law we might get the report before the session starts. Section ,29. This deals with the Pacific Marine Fisheries Compact and the entry of additio'nCil states~ Any state that has rivers that drain into the Pacific--these are the ones referred to. The states covered are listed but Article XII of the compact provides for other states in addition to those that are listed. Therefore this seems unnecessary. Malone thought that instead of that that we could just add Idaho. Section 3D. This gives the membership in the,Comprehensiv Health Advisory Council. It says there' are three members and without any break it lists four people. The last person sits in an advisory position so Randy changed this to ,include 'this position. Section 31. There was a ambiguity here. This deletes Hitsn and adds lithe department It. Section 32. ~his is a change to more simule Se ct :Lon 33, Th~L s de letes :-::"2 ference' to llH::-l t s since that term is no longer used. , ' 'l I Section 34. This relates to the payment for overtime.· ~ This is an exemption. This is for administrative and -260- \ I ----------------------- Page 433----------------------- '/ 3/27 I I professional people. I I I I 3e~tion 3S.Tllls change ~~s ~o si~~lify and clarify the J definition of occupation. It deletes some unnecessa~y 8171I language~ . I or of 3tatutes Section 36. This removes a conflict. There was a law bill I passed last year on driver improvement interviews. 'Jlhere was a conflict between the section set out and section I 285 which is part of the same act. In one section it said· the decision takes place imrnediately and another section said it didn 1 t take effsct until after a hearing. Section 37. The old abandoned vehicle act was repl~ced with a n~w statute but the old on~ wasn't repealed at the time. This will correct the situation. Section 38. Deletes a provision l11hich requires munici- palities to file report on long term debts. ,There was a repealer on local affairs -and the reporting procedure was deleted. The municipalities didn1t pick this up i when they changed. I . I Section 39. Deleted a citation. f Section 40. This is an update on a citation_: This relates to preference ~ights under natural resources. Section 41. This updates citations on the state geologist. Section 42. This is a change in the short title to delete the date reference. Section 43. Thts adds comrnissioner and employees of the Alaska Commercial FiSheries Entry CommisSion to the list of positions in the exempt service. Banfield asked if this was because it was in the Governor's office. ,Berry said that the Act itself made them exempt. This is just a listing of those that are exemot. At the time the legis lation passed they were added to the list. Section 44. This is a change in terminology •. Section 45. This is a language change to coriform to the municipal code. -. Sections 46 and 47. This pins the regulations down on state aid to local governments. S~~tion 48. This ~as a c~e~~~~l error.· Ch~nges it back t 0' t 11.8 19 7:3 ~~12 fin i t i ')n 0 :f r;::: J :3 ::::;:. 0 f s ell0 () 1 c :)~ s t ~'U c t ion 17 • Ther;:~ ~\[a_~; no clear j.ntent G~,- ":;:~~2 part of tr12 legislature to change this definition 30 2~ndy returned it to the original. -261- ----------------------- Page 434----------------------- o ,I j} c:: { , Secti,on 49.', This re;t"'e:rs to. penalties for income tax violations. It provides for the addition of the cost the SL~re~e Court. Section 50. This is a section that relates to the price and sale of the Alaska A~2~nistrative R~giste~ and this statutes is no longer necessary because it is done publicly now. b~ill Section 51. This says that the Department of Public Works must provide rules for use of automobiles and the Department of High0ays has most of the st~t~-owned automDbiles. This transfers the responsibility to them. Malone asked what does 44.68 do? There are four 'sections on unauthorized use of state vehicles. He wanted to kno~ why vehicles was made a function of a line department and not administration. Berry said because Highw~ys have a lot of vehicles. He said that maybe it should be by executive order that we transfer this out of Public Works into Highways and the subsequent action that transfers I this function to Highways--thi~ is just to make it COrl- I slstent. This probably should be, done, but n6t in ,! revisor's statute. Halon2 tha.t. l ' Sections j2 and 53. There was a change last year in'the 'I federal food stal'llp defini tions and this is made to CODror;n '. McVeigh said this included changes in what could be pur- chased with the food stamps. Now you can buy jackets" l clothing~ imported meats, and other types of 'imported 'foodb. He said he didntt have any objection to following the federal regulations. This also includes hunting and fishing equipment, but not guns. Berry said this was a special provision that applied only to Alaska. McVeigh said they deleted the prohibition of purchasing imported foods for everyone. Randy said there were a few additional changes suggested by Arthur Peterson and they can be added to this bill. Banfield asked if we were going to include them with this~ Berry wanted to add them as an amendment. or a .CS . . "..----~--'-,-"-This'·~\iould 'add-new' 'se-ctions" s'o'- that they wou.ld'fit" at ' 'the end of the bill. He said he would prepare an addendum to his memo to explain the changes.', Malone asked about the proposed changes. Section 54-- ftrriunicipalityH" means .... -Rand;:r said this was an old defin- 'ition under the Aeronautics Act. It will be~~xactly,as, the municipality in ,,29, in theCbde-'rather'than having'" two definitions. Malone said if it was the aame as in the Code" he '\'Touldbe willing to leave it as is. 1 , t l'{alone mOiled to "2.(lo;;t the 2't:',2ndments as r2corrrInendedby I I Art~Peterson--Sections 54-57 as shown on thfr sheet. Berry said that Section" 56 ~..f2S to make it consistent with the rest of the bill. -262- ----------------------- Page 435----------------------- Page 11 ! :: c' (),,;, !;"!...!..J \""".L t Banfield moved and asked unanimo~s consent to move this bill out wi th the amendments. ----J:t Vias signed flDo Pass It by Tillion~ Banfield, Malone, Orsini and McVeigh. . I bill HB 801 - Gambling. This is one of Jamie 'Love's bills. Gambling McVeigh said he was against it because it is so vague. HB' 801 It refers to extending credit for gambling. He said he didn't know what it meant to guarantee or extend credit. He said we have a lot of oldtimers THho borro'\'[ a stake from the house. If anyone did this~it would make them guilty of a felony. He requested to put this bill over until tomorrow because he wants to get some excerpts. from r the Judge Wickersham decision. HB 801 will be held over until tomorrow. Introduction HB 746 - Introduction of bills by members of the legisla-' HB 746 of bills .ture. Orsini move~ to table this bill. HB 532 - Taking of antl~rless moos~., TillioD asked h6~ 1 'Taking of many were in favor of moving this oill out of cornmi ttee ~ IRS 532 ;:.n t 1 e ~ 1 e s s Tillion. ... Malor!.2 ~ lVIc'i.Te j_Q:h and B2Xlfi e 1d" .~1 C'n~r1 Irnn P.::) S S H • I .- -" .....,. .- - (:::>- - - .-- -- - - -.- :1 moose Orsini signed UNo reclt. { HJR 79 - Requesting amendment of the United States Housing Act of 1937 to exempt Alask2. from the TlutilityH require- HJR 79 . ments of' the tfBrook Amendment ". I'llalone moved and asked unanimous consent to report thi~ resolution out with a "Do Pass IT recommendation. There VIas no objection and Tillion, Malone, Orsini and McVeigh signed liDo. Passu. Ti11ion suggested· that the coill.t'11ittee substitute HB 101+ for :Penalties for 3D 15 dealing with penalties for sale of drugs. This HB 104 ~)ale of drugs allows for civil commitment for addicts. We discussed SB 15 this in our law and order sessions. McVeigh wanted to check the federal program. This was the Narcotic.s Rehabilitation Act of 1962, a federal act. He said .. ·a-person comes -.into -the US attorneyt s- office. and·certifies that he is an addict. The judge makes him eligible to go to Texas, Leavenworth, or some other place but the recidi- vism rate was very very high. The program fell into dis- array. This ~ould start us on a civil confinement for rehabilitative treatment on our owh. Ti~lion said. Jamie raised a question on this. If you have a commitment that has no time limit .for the criminally insane---you 'can give him something far better than that. If' he ~\rants to p:~).r'~._Lcipate in the!-',alf's:lj house--at 19as.t you ~re dOiig som~t~lng. T~e c~v~l cQ7~i~~ent worka bett24. Yqu also don 1 t h::L"ij"S' c~ jury expens:.:. Z'l::;-,f.-.:;igh said t:l.::;'ce is \1 a possibility that someone not in the criminal ele~ent wil] say, TIl have gone as far as I can go!l and they really 1,vant 1 hel. p. So they g(~t themselves civilly cOITLmitted for treat.. ment. . '. -263-· .. I ~ ! ----------------------- Page 436----------------------- Pr:l crp. l? , '-' Tillion said that on the front page of this it toughens it dow~ O~ ~he pusher part. ~~~~ is ~cso~din~ to those -I !'~i ' in':;'-01 \/c:: c: i ~-t i.~.:;.' ~i:(; )/::; l~~;C1 3 e i. ::i t ~::"i. 3 i::.; nIt Ii!.3.n ~L:i t 0 rJ~ . .i.....'.1 - c Tillion Baid that it was parolable but not until the P'l /I,ties for minimum prison serttence is served. 'Nobody seems to s 5 sa~ of' drugs object to this for the hard narcotics. Banfield said they donttcatch any of t~ese people anyway_ Tillion said they caught about 12 last year. McVeigh wants to continue discussion on this tomorro0. . Meeting adjourned at 5:20 p.m. ( j" I' . l ! . -264- I ,I i ----------------------- Page 437----------------------- LEGiSLATiVE AFEl\IRSAGENCY TO; FRON: Randolph Berry::· Rev;lsor of Sta.tutes SUBJECT: .IfAn Act making corrective amendIilents in the Alaska .Statutes as~recommended by the revisor or statutes.H [ . 1 . t This ~illwa3·prepa~ed by the ReviSor· of Statut~s under AS.Ol.05.- 036. The proposed amendments arp. d.,'?sj-3n~d to 2.c~-6mp2.i;Jh the I follo\'Jing purposes: (1) correction of citations;. -( 2) correction or change in langu2.ge due to court decisions; (3) ·cleanup to make provisions ·consistent with other law or to recognize. more recently enacted law; and (4) miscellaneous clarification and correction .. It is sugges~ed ·that this explanatory memoranduIu accompany the .. · bill through its l~gislative course~ SECTIONAL ANALYSIS Section 1. adds language intended to simplify citations and make it clear that unless a citat~on specif~cally refers to a statute or Act as it existed on a particular date; the cit~tion includes 'amendments. or reenactments of the statute cited... ._ .._c_ .•_ ..__ ~'•. _._._ .. Section 2 seeks to· make the terminology o~AS 04.10.139 consistent Hith that in· the Alaska municipal law (AS 29). §~ct1_ons 3, L~ ... 10 ... 16 and II attempt to repeal or amend the quali- i'icat-ion requirements for occupational licensing based on citizen- shin .or intention to become a citizen for various businesses.and . professions to conform to the decision by the United States Supreme Court in In Be Griffiths, 413 u.S. 717, 37 L.ed 2d 910~ . S.Ct. . (1973). In that case the court held that a Connecticut stcl:ute ii;ihlch de:liJ.;d admissi.on to the st::~te ba~ to a resident I alien who had not declared an irrtention to become a citizen I vi.o-lated the equal protec tion clause of the Fourteenth AmendI1).ent I' by disc~iminating aga~Dst resident aliens. -i6S- .• -----....---.----- ---.--,-,~- ••- .. -.----- .. --••••--. -. ............ -- ~. R~' ._.__ . ........ _~w_ ..........._..._._ ..___ .___... _. ______.._..........._ --- .._-----.-- ----------~----.----,-1_-- ----------------------- Page 438----------------------- I -- , '-- t • ·Legislativ~ Council ftIarch 23,' 1974 ~~_I-~;~_1:.2n 5 d,:;let~~s th2 Ctc:'C'2 refer2D.,:>2 in.. the sho,ct title ,of AS 08 .. 0,4.1 because date references of this nature a"re unnecessary an~'tend '" to cause confusion,in later years~ particularly if amendments have. been subsequently enacted. 'Sections 6'and 7 rewrite the admission requirements afthe Alaska ,Bar, both for per~ons, applyip.~ to, ta~e th~, regular barexa~in~'~,ion a~d ~ttorneyapp1lCan~s applYlng ~o ~ak~ ~ne attorney examlna~lOny to,c6nform to the new Alaska B~r R~12 on eligibility for ad2is- sion (Part I" Rule II of 'the Alaska Be..r Rules) promulgated by the Alaska Supr~me Court on June 8, 1973 and the holding of the court in In,re Steohenson~ 511 P. 2d 136 (Alaska 1973) that the court has inherent and final power and authority to determine the standards for admission to the practice of law in Alaska., The refer'cnc'e fa 'the' r-equlreme'nt that 'a resident alien' irit'end"- to become'a citizen 'of the United States has been removed from AS 08.08.130 to conform to my 'interp~e~ation of In He Griffiths, , . (s~p~~), although the requirement re~~i~s in Part,~) Rule 2, , r Section l(e) of, ~he Alaska Bar Rules. I I ! 0::;C tior.t Saddsa.dditiOila.l laIlgu.alSe tu AS 08.08 .. 180 ~o bring that ,I section intoc6nformity with the decision of the Alaska Supreme. 'Court in In re Petition of Crosby~ 495 P. 2d 1270 (1972) which held that if the non-payment of dues involved a question of,or challenge to the board's authority to cOillpel,the payment of the dues sought!) then a 'hearing was necessary to comply ~1ith proce~ dural due p~ocess. Sectiou seeks to remedy a practic2.1 proble'll resulting from contr'a- dictory requirements as to service between AS 08.18.081(a) and 'AS 21.09.180 - 21.09.190. AS 21.09.180 - 21.09.190 make the director of the diVision of insurance agent for the servibe of process 6n ins~r~rs, and the exclusive agent for service inth~ case of foreign insurers" ,and require the payment of, a $5 fee.,,' " AS 08.18 .. 081' provides that pers9.l15., bringing an act=I.,on against a . contr.ac to~_,_qn_,his bo l1 d_,shallserve the co~rnis sioriero:f_.. c'orr.uuerce,!>,;.,.:_,."__ :~, """lho shall transmit the compla,int to the insurer. (rn the case of ' " foreign,instirers, the complaint,~o~ld be transmitted to the director of the diviSion Of insurance, in a~9grdance with AS 21.09 .. 180 'but 3 the $5 required by AS 21 .. 09 .. 190:~~~plJ.~sl"not have bee'l?- coll,ected .. )_' Secti-on 11~,,' The definition of',~'miriesn cited in AS 08.52.'070 'Na's ,repealed' in '1963.. The terminology'_cqf. thc.t definition 'tv-as 'carried Over in substantially the same-.-fo'tni, 2.3 a definition of Ilmining operations H " (See ch. 75 SLA 1963;) , ~ . ~"' ... , ' §~~~~.:iO!:1.-.l.2 5.:1.ser't:-3 a 1,'1crd ',-;hich ¥f2.S a?92,:'2~~ly' emitted j_n this I ' 32 ::: tion in t,he orJ_ginal v8rs~Lon' 6:[' ~h2. "o,tl,l ,(HB 1) ,li'ih:icil,Qcca.~lte ' ' ,I ch. 17 SLA 1973 ~ The ~lord is nec'e:ssary" to make' the terminology Of AS 08.54~190(b) con~i~tent with the remain~~~~f'AS 08.54. - -~ .-- - ...... Section' 13 repeals a prOVision relating to phYSicians pr6viding care by authority of permits for :iso12ted areas. The section .. .. " -266- ----------------------- Page 439----------------------- j ...J I ::.- ! I Legislative Council -3- I f j. ;)rO'I.-.Lc~ingror the :U~su.ance of perrr:its f'o.c isolat2d areas (AS 03 .. - I i ~4~368) was repealed in 1970· (see sec. 27 ch. 148 SLA 1970) . .Sect:Lons ])fand li insert additional language in AS 08.71.q8o and 1- .~ o(f. 71.090 (relating' to .the licensing of dispensing opticians) to remove a conflict with AS 08.71.150 which prOVides for iss~ance. of ·licenses without examination to applicants \:,ho have been licensed ~Y).":; n'"",::;),.+-ir>..!no· Or"' ? 'Q~i""""'~n"-;?'1tT on-:-";,n-i;::)n "'r ':)---:"7""0;::::'-'--' '-"';"";:1:-0 C'_l'-'-'- ~J':" c......, '--'- ...... ..1..J.1 0 . - 0.. ~uyv.".:J_J.._b -'. v..L,-, ___ .:. -'-_~ '--l.',",\J4L~.!.. .:J '.,,_'-' ...... " Sections 18, .19~ and 20 change ·the ter~inology of AS 12.25.150~ 12 .. 25.180 and 12.25.190 to avoid a potential conflict through the use of the term '112~1:'restl! \\Jith Rule 5 of the Rules of Criminal Procedure, which prbvides specific procedures and time limits for ~nnQ~~~~~o hQ~~~a ~ m~~;~~~~rQ ~~ron ~~~~~~ ....-~.;;:'--- ---'*'-" ...... "'---- -- '""" ....... ·.....-....O~....., '\..t .... '-'"'v", ~__ V'-'_ ................ _ '-'~ v • .Se·ction. 21 changes the terminoio gy of AS lLl125 .. 220(5) -to conform with current terminology found in AS lL~ .12 and in Al2.ska muni.cipal - I law (AS 29). I i' Section 22. updates an archaic reference to state police. I Section 23 cor~ects the r~ference to the department responsible for the issuance·of vouchers from Revenue to Administration to conform to As 37~ ( i \ f{.. - .! Section 2'4 deletes language describing the initial terms of members ".~ appointed to the Boar~ at Fish and Game, as this l~nguage.is no longer necessary. Section 25 repeals a penalty prOVision (AS l6~05.700) which' is duplicated by a general penalty provision (AS 16 .. 05.720) appearing in the same article of the Fish a.nd Game Code (AS 16.05) .. Section -26 change~ the time period for establishment of residency .,( for purposes of' the Fish a·nei. Game Code -' AS 16.05) by aliens _'. : maintaining _a. perman~n:t_p1ace of._abode -in-the-.-state-.to-make.--it._____ c __~~._____ _ con~l~tent with the one year required of other persons residing ~'. in the state_ This' change appears to be necessary to conform to the ~ecisions of the Supreme Court i~ Tak2h2sk~v. Fish and Game: Com~~ission;) .334. u. s. 410, 92 L .. ed 1478 -'_ 68 s. Ct .. 1138 (1948) and Graham v. Richardson~ .403:U.3. 365-, 29 L.ed 2d 910,91 S.Ct. 1841- (197I}. In Takahashi the court restricted the tlspecial public' interest f1 doctrine in the area of fish and game la~'ls It'fhich discrimi- nated against aliens, and in Graham v. Richardson the court invalidated statutes Which established a differential residency r2Gui:::ernent foY' aliens as being a viol::tiotl aT the equal Drotection 6~iuS2 of the Fourteenth Amendment. - j .'. Section 27 deletes a prOVision .(AS 16.10_060~ prohibiting the use of fish traps) which is unnecessary since the p~ssage of. ch. 17 SLA 1959, as amended by ch. 95 SLA 1959 (AS 16.10.070 - 16.10.110~ prohibitipg and establishi~g penalties for the u~e of fish traps). -267- ----------------------- Page 440----------------------- Legislative Counc~l -4- Section 28 changes the date for the submission of the report 'of,the Alas"lca Corn:''Tlercial, Fisheries Entry CO:-IlTaission.. This change seems, Decessaryin view of ch. 8 SLA 1973 ch~nging the date of the con- vening of the legislature to the third rather than the secon~ Monday oI,January. Section 29 ~eletes the reference to sD2cificstates in is 16.45.blO I ~~:)·lerr...or T s pO~ljer to enter into the Pacif'ic fil2.rine Fisheries CompactJ,) as this,rererence seems unnecessary in view ofth.e language of the I! compact ,itself (AS 16 .. 45.020). ' Article XII of the compact provides' for other states in addition to those listed in AS 16~45.010 to .' , becoillecompac.ti.p.g states.... . '. ... " '. .' .,'. " ... ,.:" ,.' I, - ~- . - -_. .. Section 30 make;" a- -challge in the langt.le.ge "and punctuation of the provision (AS 18'.07 .030(b),) membership of the Comprehensive Health Advisory Council) to correct an apparent ,internal conflict in the '12ngu~gB of the provisi~n3 which sta~es th~t th2r~ 2re thfe2 govern~ ~~-?r,t2.1ID.e.mbe-rs and lists f'our p2:'SC:-:S ..The Cha.::1g2 :LS intended to I' Qake it 'clear that the representative of the he~lth care service and deliver~ agencies of the armed fO~Ges sitting-in an advicc=y . capaci-ty is not cO,unted as one of the governmenta~ members'. " Section '31 changes the ter'minology of aprovlslon of AS 18 .. 07 .. 080' {function's and' duties of the 'Comprehensive Health Advisory Council) I to clarify an ambiguity. Reading AS 18.07.080(1)'in conjunction with AS18.07~090 seems' to require this interpretation. Section 32 updates" the terminology of the provision describing the lerms, of office of board members of the Alaska State Housing , Authority, as the reference to the year of initial appointment of each member ~s'no lo~ger necessary. 'Section 33 deletes the reference to trNrit of mandamus tr ' as-writs' of , mandamus are abolished by, Rule 91(b) of the Rules of Civil Procedure-.· --~ _.- ...._- ...._..-. -- .. ..,~ S~ct1.on-34.~-·'''·,This'' sectiqn repea1s--a provisiori--'exempting persons-·:··....~·, ..' ". . employed as outside salesmen or in an executive> administrative or professional capacity from the coverage of AS 23.10.060 (payment for overtime) as the catE.;gories of persons are exempted under· , AS 23.10.055(9) from the entire Hage and Hour Act ,(AS 23~lO.050 23,,, iO,.150 ). ' Sec'tion,35 deletes unnecessary language in order to ,simplify and c1ar~fy the definition of occupation~ Section ~6 removeS a conflict ~2t~feen AS 28.15.28S(b) and AS 28.15- -;:,_---.f.)~,.,......J ::-:,' ,s -r-: 0--- f: .1.:'-1 :~ ..(.', -, '_'t'. ',"r" p -1- , d .. ~ ., D -l- ' '"' i") 1 J '" ~.. r't..L. i . ~ -- - ~ ~ .. -'_ ~ne eC1Slon Oi ~2e ,ep2~Gm2nG 01 tUO~lC ~ale~y i following a driver ,improvement in~erview becomes effect~ve. .\' . AS 28.15.28S(b) generally provides thai the decision is effective .1' upon receipi of'the notice; AS 28.15.288 specifically provides that a decision by the department suspending or revoking a person's driving privil~ge does not take effect pending a hearing or,subse- q1!-ent aI?peal ~ - - 26 8_ ----------------------- Page 441----------------------- ! • Legislative Council -5- Barch 23-, 1974, t' Sectj_Otl 3~.' Ch. 81 SLA 191'3 enactec. A_S 23. 3l (aba:'1·icned motor l tt~ vehicles)-, which replaces AS 28.30. The repealer of AS 28.30 was ' l ~.~ apparently inadvertently omitted when the bill which enacted AS 28.3~ \';as introduced. Section 38 deletes a provision requiring municipalities to file reports relating to long-term debt as provided in AS 44;19.205~ AS 44.19.205 (~owers and duties of the Local Affairs Agenc~)was repealed by ch. 200 SLA 1972~ which cre2ted the Dep~rtsent of Cornmunity and Regional Affairs. No provision comparable to AS L~4 .. - 19.205(1) (requiring reports of local government d~bt), is found ~n ~,.., II I. " r( '(D ,.L. 't: .0 C ,...., -: L. - rl:::J '. al fI -? or> • ~) iii::) Lf4.Lt eparvmenu o..!. OllliuUn.l..l.Y an,-,- J,.',2glon _ .cl....Llalr,::;. .. Secti()~ 39 diletes 2. citation ~ " AS 38·35.120 (7) was repealed °Nhen AS 38.35.1aO was repealed and re-enacted by ch. ,3,FSSLA 1973. No comparable provision 0 appears' i~ the new version, of AS 38 .. ,35.120. Section 40 updates'a citation to ,include ~'later enacted provisioti, of the srurre cat~~ory as those- cited. Section 41 updates citations to provisions ie1atlngto the" state geologis t.' Section 42 deletes ihe,'daie reference in th~ short title of'AS'38.~' 05.181.forthe same reason as s~c. 5. " .'. . Section 43 adds 1rcorru~lissioners and employees' of the Alaska CommerciI l' Fisheries Entry Commission" to the list of positions in the exempt service .. These positions'Here established as'exempt by AS 16 .. 43 .. - 060 and 16.43.080~ and this section is intended merely to keep the listi~g in AS 39.25.110 current_ Section 44, corrects the reference to the ftsection of l,'reights and measureslI,as there is not -a division of weights and measures .. H Section'45,~emoves'.-,the--urinecessary -, Horganized .' from in.. front ,- of' ____ .,_ .. , II mun icipality H. 0 'Sections 46 and 47. These sections make the citations to .the provisions 'dealing with,state aid to local governments for misce1- lan..e0us mun'icipal 'purposes more specific so as to avoid conflict with other sections in AS,43.18. Section 48" .. This section returns the definition of Hcosts,of school, constructionTt to'its original language prior to ch. 28 SLA 1973. 0 Apparently the changes made by that enactment were .. . .~ .. :Ln.advertent cler5.cal error's. . -.: ~ '" ,'" " I Section 49. This section removes the reference to the costs of 1 ~rosecution in the penalties for ~iolation of the' Alaska N~t Incom~· Tax Act (AS 43.20)~ 'as those references conflict with AS 12.80.030 which provides that costs may not be taxed to the defendant in a criminal act~on unless otherwise 6rdered by supreme court rule. -269- ----------------------- Page 442----------------------- r·s > ,-":- ... , 10. I 1 1 : j Section 50. This provision (AS 44.62.150, dealing with the price .1 and sale of the Alaska Administrative R2giste~ and Alaska Admin~ / I 'istrative Code by the lieutenant governor) is no longer necessary < ' due to the publication and sile of the register and' code by a :private publisher under the certificate of the. lieutenant governor. Section 51 corrects the reference in AS 44~68.020 :tb thedepart~2nt I responsible for rules regarding the use of state-owned vehicles.- I Executive Order No. 18 (1962) and AS 47;44.020> enacted in 1963 :. CCh. 49 SLA 1963)3 transferred this responsibility to the Departmen~ of' High~'lays. Sections 52"and 51 make cnCLnges in'provisions under'the rood stamp program (AS 47.25.975 ~ 47025~990) to bring' those 'provisions into ,conformity with changes in the feder2.l food stamp program enacted, h r, 1 n'7~), ("0" ,...;-:) 8/) 0], Lo~gress In -71~, L .L. ~~-i b _ R'R/srn _._-: .. -1: ....... . -270- ----------------------- Page 443----------------------- . (10) "municipality" m2ans a c 0 r po rat ion an d .Dol i tic a 1 sub d -i vis ion, V! hie his a f fr s tor' sec and c 1ass bar a uq h 0 r cit V, a rathi)' d c 1ass b0 r 0 uq h , [(;ITY, PUBLIC UTILITY DISTRICT .OR OTHER POLITICAL· 5lJSOI- V 15 r O:n inc or po rat edun de r the 1a \'I s 0 f the s tat e ; ..;; Sec. 55 ... AS 37.15.220 is ailtended to read: '. Sec. 37 .. 15.220~ SHORT·TITLE .. 'Sections 10 220 of' th; s [fHI'51· chapte; may be 'cited as the 5ta te Bonding Act • 7: Sec. 56 .. AS 43,S6;030(2)(C) is . I am~nded to read:. I I . (C) ·taxes on the sale or use' of' services 'used ',in' ·f .. ~ '. ./, or associated with the {Jroperty or in its LERECnO~I, CONSTRUC- nON,] maintenance or operation except for the sales taxon thefirit $1,000 of eac~ sale; .. * .Sec .. · 57. AS .47,.05 .. 030 is ameneed to read: Sec" 4 7 .. 0 5. 030. .f1 I SUS E f) F PU3LIe ASS I STA NeE LIS TS A ~'l 0 RECORDS ... I tis u n 1a wf u 1 )' ex c e p t for, pur po s e s. d ire c t 1yeo n ..;. nected with the administration of general assistance. adult . __ pu b licJOLDAGE] as s ista nee,~ [AID-TO· THE· BU NO J"0 r-a id-to-'~ receive, make use' of, or to authorize, kno\'ling1y permit, par tic i pat e in,. 0 r a c qui e s ce i nth ells e 0 f, a' 11 S t a for nam e s a r 1 n T 0 rf.l a\:1 0 nco nee f n i n g, D 2 i" S or: saop 1y i Ii9 for 0 r r e c e i v 1n 9 . . . th e' ass i s ~ a n ce d ire c t 1y ~; i 1,1 d i r 2 c : 1y de r iv e d fro m t h ~ r e c~ r tS , papers, flles, or conmunlcatl0ns aT the department or sUbdlVl-' sions or agencies of the department, or acquired in th~ COur,e of the performance of official duties. -271- ----------------------- Page 444----------------------- Chairman Tillion called the mee-clng to order 'at 3,: 13 p.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present l./ were Tillion, Malone, McVeigh, Orsini and Berry. McVeigh had the material about gambling (HE 801) and Gambling the collectibility of such debts. Malone said he would like to have Mr. Havelockfs opinion on this piece of HB 801 legislation tomorrow. McVeig~ read Judge Wi~kershamrs decision on this subject. It was enjoyed by all. After' consideration of the contents of the bill, Tillion said that only 3 should be included in the bill. He suggested that I and 2 be deleted and that the penalty . be a misdemeanor rather than a felony. McVeigh ~aid if you leave only 3 in the bill~ then you should leave the penalty as a felony. . Th? next item for discussion was a land'classification bill. (HB 827) Orsini s~id that the f~rs portion was Land Classifi- fine. Tillion said that the other portion was to 'include Gdi.t.iUll p~op~e like ~mokey at ~~gle Hiver. iou are going to force him to divide the 12.nd. This v-ray ·the local gov- ernm~nt will be protected, too. Orsini felt that this takes into account all kinds of situations. Tillion 'said that now with 2-1/2 acres and a house--it would be as if your zoning prevents zoning if less ,than 2-1/2 acres. Malone moved to introduce this bill with a (~, committee report and sign it out nDo Pass Tf • Orsini objected because he had some more questions. Under definitions--if it is all the land in the state that will cover 40 million acres. You canlt get an agricultural classification on 2-1/2 acres. Tillion said this was at the request of people like in Juneau where 2-1/2 acres is too large., This says y6u dontt have to subdivide. This in effect is zoning by the ......-.-..-.-.-.. --- .. -- -........c_.~-~-.,.~-.-p ropert y"" o;,iner-~'- "·-It--··k·eeps'pe-op"le . from ~oe'ing .for6e d.···c'f·f--'--.__ ..-- their land and this is being done allover. Orsini said that this would require an additional tax. Is this just the tax they would have paid? Paying it at the current rate got a little too tough.' This is an arrangement to keep people on their land. Tillion Baid that h~ and Malone were acquainted with ~ome of' thes~ people personally--the ones that were be~ng forced tG sell their land b~cause at the high rate of taxation. These are n?t speculators 2~d they cantt claim agricultural r~~3t interest; (')f TilliOrl se.id h;:; clicl::1't kno~ of a more eq~ltable way. Orsini said this will affect the municipalities quite a bit. For instance the Matanuska I Valley--Jay is running ints this. \... -272- ----------------------- Page 445----------------------- i ":1/');:> i, i.J c._ U ,o~~~ ~ II . II .:.. \".,.0\,.0........ ,-. Orsini said that they would have been g8tt5~ng "x" nu.mber I I ot td.Z:'::"!(:; ::1.;:'~c~ l'l'::vi ~;,1 :-,',' :;:-...~-~ :'::2 t~ti~-L~,!; ~~a.i~2;} :~~~ ag~:'lci;,I--tu2::1=~tl3 82 71 ~~~y~uni~~~!l~~~i~s r~~o~:i~~et~~~r!~~l~~~~~lf~~c~~: ~~~~o~nd i i.f!:~ with the quarter acre lot. Tillion said this doesn't .~:;~ C1as3ifi- free them from taxes on th2 home. Orsini said this would be shifting it to the larger amount of undeveloped land cation to the man owning' the smaller amount of land. Tillion stated that the additional good is worth it. Orsini· said there was a senate bill allowing for green space. Malone's motion was acted upon and the bill was signed out. Tillion, Orsini" Banfield, Malone and McVeigh all signed TtDo·Pass ll • (HB 827 - AuthoriZing farm use of undeveloped land property tax assessment.) This bill 'was introduced wi th a cornllli t tee report at the time of introduction. ; RCA Commun. HJR 95 - Proposed RCA communications satellite. T,illion Satellite said that he had an explanation on this. that he could read if the committee desired. This is from Dr. Fritz of the CO.rTUllunications C'ommi t-:.ee. rl'he .wain reasons are I that they are sending' the s~tellite up aboGt.half-equipp2d~ You won't be able to add additional. eq~ipment later . . f because it is so spec1.altzed. IrFi.CA1.S going to send. it up we want to have telephone communications around Alaska too. The additional equipment needs to be added before: they launch their satellite. RCA has planned only to send enough equipment to take care of pipeline communica- tions. Banfield asked if Senator Ted Stevens didnft support this. Tillion said that he did. Orsini moved for a liDo Passl! recommendation on HJR 95. Tillion> Malone McVeigh, Banfield and Orsini signed "Do Pass lT • Til1ion said that he wanted to consider HE 104 and SB 15 I Penalties for both relating to drugs. He wanted the commi.ttee t s . opinion HB· 104 sale of drugs on replacing. HB 104'with SB 15. It would be a es' for the house bill .. We asked for something asking for corn- SB 15 mitment of .addicts and this senate bill has it~ HB 104 is the same title. We could add the text of SB 15 into ........-........_., ...... the"House·bil1. 'Uhthe' back-'page 'it 'a.-ll'bws .. for.. ··c'orrmiit:..::··--- -""""""'-" ment. Malone said that it has a punishment section~ too. Tillion said we would take only the title from HE 104 and substitute SB 15 in toto. Malone moved and asked unanimou consent that a CS be prepared for HB 104 which would be th test of SB 15. Tillion asked about the penalty provisions. This is a to~gh one. Jamie Love said unless you do. some- thing this tough, you canTt get them to go the the halfway houses. Maione suggested that we leave that section alone. He·doesn't· want to make the sentence any longer. Tiili6n asked 'if the CO!llin=~ttee :/j2.~t'2d to s'ign the commi.ttee reporti now. Banfield moved to do so a~d sign it out now with a ! TlDo Pass q. '. Tilll.on, Banfield" Malone, McVeigh and Orsini n signed "Do Pass • HB 154 - Revocation of motor vehicle operatorTs'license HB 154 was up for considerat~on. TillioD said that the senate SB 193 has passed SB 193 - Reckless and negligent driving. -273- ----------------------- Page 446----------------------- ;57 c::. J j \ McVeigh said that we have an implied consent law. TilEonl ():."!.t (=~. t {' ~ a -:~ ~I 3 2. 5 ~l .~l E'. :-3 p :.1:.3 3 2 ._~':. .,:: >. ~:; E·'-: U 32 a. n d '~i- ., ':'~1 "1 '7'i .':'1 "".; ~, ...., 'r.:· '1 :::;;J :,-.~_.?~~O,.~~··;.~".;·.~~~=L:~.~L~~.!.E~ ~j I committe2. Now 33 193 h~3 CGS2 over fro~ _l~_ ~_;'___ . w~ put it on the floor we would have a es for SB 193 and I once on the floor'it would nass. McVeigh said he didn't Sl :1 ~'l -I like mandatory revocation for anything. A lot of people depend on their livelihood by driving. Tillion said I Reckless and that Fish and Game take away your license to fish for Negligent various violations. Tillion also said that you have to I Driving be convicted--you are thoroughly smashed. McVeigh said it ~oesnlt say drunk--it says under the influence. He also noted there \'r2S a catc1:1?.ll here. Tillion said the I judge would have to f~nd you guilty before revocation. McVeigh asked if he 'was sD.ggesting that eSSE 193 be I I HB 154. f . I On line 26 the court convlc~lng a person on any of these things l~sted-~unless their livelihood will be. impaired. I This makes it more palatable. Orsini asked if this was ! a minimum sentence type thi~g. The cou~t now has the I prerogative to do this no~. McVeigh moved to make the C ;.. -:'\ - '- r- .c· ...... ....., 0 '..... '" 8 "1 9 -:> T·... " - ~w 1;::-;: r.';"'" .=. CQ '. " 1 1 L. . . Llr.:;d'1.:sc 1..L O~d v,;).J -L.J· _ 1....Ir' c.:.~, .!.....) '-;- • J. .:.l.'~ U ':ITa:::; .S 19ne.Q \...,1 .....,,'..1. with Tillion, Banfield, McVeigh, Orsini,:and Malone i· I ~ce c ommending ~: Do Pas s ;; • I I .HB 614 - Qualification of an assistant adjutant general I Qualifications in the Nation~l Guard. This is the GovernorTs bill. HB 6141 qP assistant Banfield moved and asked unanimous consent to'sign (, this bill out with a "Do Passt! recommendation, It was I ( / Signed Do Pass by Banfield, Tillion and Orsini.': Malone. ; D.~tant general and McVeigh Signed "No recorn.J.'11endation fl • Meeting adjourned at 4:07 p.m. I I I I .-~ ... :---.-~--..---_._ .._--_..._-- ...._-_.. ---------_.._---._-'--._-_._- --..__ ._-,..._._------_._--- -: i . -...----.... -"--'--'--'-' -..--...-.--..'-.--.. -----..- ...........--.- .........-.-.---..--_.__ ....__ ..._-,.. .._- ..-.. ··_··_·-···--·····1 I I." I . ~27t.- ----------------------- Page 447----------------------- jl~/ 3 ! HOUSE JUDICIARY COMI1ITTEE I I Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 3:45 I p.m. in Room 104 of the A3sembly Apartments. Present I were Tillion, Chance, Orsini, Malone and McVeigh. I Malone moved and asked unanimous consent that HAlf -i.'Thich Copper River referred to the ~econstruction of the Copper River tHCF 10: 1 High ,vay Highway be reported out of cOElmittee "tlfi th a TlDo Pass tr I reco~nendation. (HeR 100) This resolution was intro- I duced with a committee report. Tillion, McVeigh, Chance) ~lJ:alone 2nd Banfield signed t!DO Pass If; Orsini t and Beirne signed lINo rec". i Nalone' moved that' the comrni ttee introduce proposed Chitina/McCarthy House Concurrent Res61ution(No. -97) relating to the Highway reconstrLlction of the Chitina/McCarthy Highway an'd HeR 9'"( that it be reported out illi th a corrt21i ttee r2port Signed lrDo Pass!f. T~11i0n Brci'~nQ Mn~rQi~h C'h~nCQ a·n~ ~~10nQ _~-L_ ,.L...J __ , ~.,-.__ .,~, ~-'-'~~--'-:.::.,_.l., '.:1.~_ "-~ ,~,lU ,.c~~ _'- signed nDo Pas3!1; Orsini Signed !f;,]o Y'ec!l. Empty Calorie HCR 85 - Sale of "empty calorie H snacks in public schools ~ ;:):.1aCk3 McVeigh asked if we shouldnft leave this to the school HeR 85 boards locally. Chance said she would like to move 'to report this resolution out iHith a aDo Pass" recommendation~ McVeigh objected. Chance said it is not the students Who would object, btit it would be the venders. Mr. Hackney appeared before the committee in favor of this resolution. He said he felt the school boards would like to have us do this--to b~ck them up. This' would put the individual schools in the position of saying they won't be getting any money from the use of these machines if they do have them.' Chance asked if this'took out the coke machines. He presented some . ,~tatist~c~~on the amo~nt o~~~o~e~ spen~ in the mach~nes ' i .- ••. ______ .--;._ •• c_ •••_. __ :ln .. t h~. ,_var~.o:u s _.s.c ho 0 1 s. ..__ .Av lJ _ 0 D_. \.~ as ,.t ake n_.. 0 n .._. Chan c 8_., s .-'''---''--''-'l''"'-.--.--'~'-- , motion and the resolution was Signed out. Tillion, , I Beirne, Malone and Chance signed nDo Pass tt ; Orsini and' Banfield Signed "No :rec TT; .amd McVeigh Signed nDo Not i Pass ll • i •Ga.Irlb ling HB 801 - Gambling. Tillion said this bill could, be IRE 801 dropped because when we take u~ extortion it will cover this problem. Ti 11ion s a. t d v', e had a.house concurrent resolution (No. 98) i rel~ting to guidelines for p~2a b~rg2inin;. is one lEeR 98 that we reouested. ~iL~_i~~ 2:"'2~J,)_!.:_J_~~Orl c... sl-cs t::4-= ~;Ol.lr>t to do 1 something aboutsenterice barg2ining versus plea bavgaining~ , This requires the setting out of guidelines. ~275- ----------------------- Page 448----------------------- Page 2. (;~ .~ ,~~ !.' ~ .~~ e ~; r~ j_ ~~l t· :~i ~~ s () ~-~ J_:1 C C1 ~;- .s- "2.~ 2 :.~'~.. :~:- 2 ,3.. b .~~~ I"I E; .r~~ ~L '·:1 5. Cl :=s' .. iI~ .i l ~;_ ~:. () ~~. Sstid t}.le.~f '.J~usJc Itl~n~) it 2~1~L i:1'~=:() orl:.~ .. Ch.:}(lCr? DC)-j2Cl aDJ. .. \ - i-I -:R 9 asked unanimous consent that we introduce this resolution and submit it with a co:m..rrrittee report signed "Do Passu. Tillion; Malone, Orsini, Chance, McVeigh, Beirne, and' Banfield all signed !fDo Pass!! .. Tillion noted that he had another house concurrent Ala.ska Police resolution (NO. 99) relating to the Alaska Police Standards Council. Malone said the idea of the resolu- HeR 9 Standards Council tioD is to get the council to come up with some realistic recomInendations for miniml.Eil police standards. Chance moved to report this resolution out\'Tith 2. Tf Do Pass Tt recommendation. This was also the time for introduc- tion for this resolution. Tillion, Malone, Chance, r,lcVeigh, Beirne, and Banfield Signed aDo Pass Tf; Orsini signed fiNo rec TT • HE 633 - Carrying of firearms in places licensed to Carr::rLng of PireEl.rms/ sel~ intoxicating liquor. Orsini asked why they needed HB 633 this piece of legislation. It appears that hunters go places selling in these places and get 2.11 liquored up_and end up in }_iQ.')_Oyl some shoot oht. This is to make them put their guns in the rack. Tillion asked if the committee should 'have a CS drawn up. Chance was in agreement.· Orsini suggested to make this apply_ only to unorganized areas / .of the state. 'Tillion said he thought that Anchorage \. already has something in their ordinances about the carrying of firearms. McVeigh said you can't carry concealed weapons. There was no further discussion of this neasure. Tillion said that we had a bill drawn up--An Act expanding Expanding duties duties of:thej Commission on the Administration of J~stice. 835 of Commiss1on . (HB 835) Tillion asked if the cornmittee \vould like to HB.,. introduce this bill and hav·e it referred back to trlis ".':.'~.:~". on Admin. of Justice committee. Malone so moved. l:rhis bill '\,'Jas sent over ._. __ ..__ ..__ .__ ._.__ ___.:f C?__ ~_.__ ~Pt:rC?_S!lJ.:_c~~(? 1]. _and ._!?_~ 51 u est for r e ~ ~T!l __r ~(~:r.ral_<__ . .______________ . .___ <_. __________ _ HB 794 - Extortion. Tillion said that there is a state- . Crime of extortion ment from Havelock. (B~irne arrived 4:00 p.m.) Chance asked about subsection 5. Tillion said this was not HB 794 'objected to by the unions and their ·leaders. Chance asked v.rhat category the telegrams on employee pay raise ··w6uld fall into. Tillion said this is threatening you but'not your property __ Malone asked if this was what Havelock is talking 'about in his memo. Tillion said that at the present time you can't get a guy on a criminal charg? for doing several of t~ese oth~r' ~nlngs_ '. Malone s~id that Joel Bennett d~~fte~ this) but Havelock started' it. / -276- ----------------------- Page 449----------------------- ··f / ~) Page 3 ~.~ .L ~t ~L i C) "(.l 2.. S 1·~ ...~ c1. i~ ~) ~ :-'1. ::~ :-=! 'J 8~,!: ~- t -~~: (: 2 ~/!~ :~ .3 l~) .~ .:~ IJ ~1'rl :~ (~L t () \IO t: ~:: () r!. thi~3 t)illb Ivlal()ri(~ vJclnt~ed tC) C~.=L·3(~;_t~33 it £'Lll;tll::Y"'. ~iI<:;"\reigh said there vIlas apr·etty good cOITLTnent on the bill that explains it. Tillion read from Joel's com..ments. Malone agreed that it was a good explanation. Malone moved to report out HB 79'~ wi th . a liDo Pass 11 recolTh11entation and asked unanimous consent. There was no objection and the ·bill was signed out. Tillion~ Malone) .Orsini, Beirne> .NcVeigh> Chance· and Banfield all signed trDo Passu. Collection of HB550 - Liability for and collection of expenses of HB 550 hosp_ expo for hospitaliz&tiori of mental patients .. Dr. Beirne said that when a child goes into a place where they receive m'2ntal patients psychiatric care or mental retardation treatment there is no limit on what they may charge the parents of others in your family_ If the spouse cantt pay for their own spouse, then an adult child would have to make these payments. A number of people feel that when the child goes in by the time.theyreac~ lS--at that time they are probably going intoretj_reDent themselves. You.' would have to say that after age 18 the parents wouldn't have to pay. \'Ie also took out s-pouse' and adult· child so that if a person went into API and they couldn't go in for care because it would deprive the rest o~ the ramily they would just go without the treatment. ·We are not really taking away much from the state~ Anothei change in the HESS CS was that at the bottom of the page regarding payment--there ~s no statute on limitations. Some people are getting bill~ that are four years old~ Tillion thought that the statute of limitation says it is three years. McVeigh asked--for what? He said he didntt think this applied to billing. It might apply to when you can bring a civil or criminal proceeding against someone. Chance said this was put on by the First Legislature~ The department has now set about ! ~ . .collecting from parents. They did this already for the ...VA,.r/fedicaid, ... etc., but not for. the parents. The .budget and audit COITh'TI.ittee says the laTd says they are supposed to collect this from the people, too~ The parents who have children institutionalized--they are getting ~uge bills for back care as well as current care. Chance gave an example of one family_ They live in a rented trailer and have three children besides the one that is in the institution. This child is at Harborview. After the department went through their financial items th~i E~ded up sending them 2 bill for $362 a month. That is one of the reasons for the $50 per montll amendment. J T11er2 1/jc)Lt~1.:~-l. be a~ rat(~ ~~cj~~'.i~...~_~L2 s t:artin~~ at $5 J I)2r Ir:ol'lth. Malone objected to this because jou couldnft attach the . estate and the people who had the money and could ~fford to pay should pay_ A lot of people caught in this bind. get bled dry and it doesnot work to the advantage of the public as a whole. The feeling was at least for our part that the people paying the taxes to support the institutiO\,,_ -277- . ----------------------- Page 450----------------------- in the first nlace then the) have to pay again wh8n T111iun said that pro Pri~z had signed !rNo rec ll • Beirne Cc'~:;ction of said he feels the same way as Malone--the people should h(~~/ exp. for· pay their own way. The SD0U3e should pay for the spouse. ·mental patients This relates' really to the person who goes in for treat- ment for himself .. Chance said that she can go into a hospital to have treatment in one that is privately operated and could be admitted on her own signature. There is no require- ment that her husband would have to sign that note~ H~re in this law we say that whether it is agreed to or not the other spouse C2.::1Ylotgo in and get treatment without the absent spouse agreeing to pay for the cost. She agreed that the people who can afford it ~hould pay. She said he~ own personal feeling is that if you have a mentally retarded child that you shouldn't have to pay at .all. Juveniles sent to l"IcLaughlin, for- example.-- . their parents .are not required to pay for their care. The way the rate schedule ~s prepared now if the people improve their income thei1.'--' rates go up. Tilllonsaid he cou~a see this ror the retarded child, but lr you~ wife has a breakdown) under this bill, you wouldn't have to pay. Malone said that Helen had some figures on what they are collecting in the state noW. Tillion said we (" might be opening a door. Chance said we would be enacting what has been done until Budget and Audit made the depart- I " m~nt activelY go into collecting. If the people could V afford to pay the state charged then and if they couldn't they didn't. It is existing practice tha~ we are trying to enact into la"\.'l. Tillion felt that \vhen you remove the n spouse!T people that \'iere automatically paying then-- they will no longer pay_ Orsini asked how much they wouldnTt be able to collect that they are now. Chance said most of the collection was from Medicaid, Medicare, So.cial Security, Insurance and the VA. . ,-- .-------- Baiifi eld -. a's"ke-d -. what-~~6"lild ... be--- t he----Eas e--rr- --t-he--liidivia.-uar-------- who needed'hospitaliiatlon for mental problems was the wage earrteror--l1is wIfe is so bad she has to be put away in an institution. Maybe he has a family of- children and. if you have priced homema~ers,lately--they really cost t_hese" days. Orsini said it seemed -that we were talkirtg about mental health. It is like physical health except it in your head. Do we have free medical health for physical needs? Beirne said this is a publ~c i~stitution already. The people pa./ the taxes to ksep tl~e institutio-:!.s going and then the::/" get sick and hav-2· to pa.y for the care. You must remember this i~ the income group that can't ~fford • L - prl vat,e care. ----------------------- Page 451----------------------- j L~/3 Page 5 I ( 3~licl. 'Vie ~3.hOli.J_cl t)-? (~a.Il;:;_{t~J.~~ t~~,3.~ ~'jf~ c.lle rlO~=: 30ttiTl~S ttp tiiO separate pay schedules or the federal government will ction of, refuse to pay the "higher rates. She sent to Washington, ..exp. foY' D. C. and they said it would impair collecting of federal funds~ It would put a ceiling OD the rate schedule.' We don't have to strike anything. The parents cannot be charged more than this. TillioD said he COUldn't support r Chance· s amendment. He said he pays more than that to the people who take care of his youngsters while he is away at the Legislature. Chance outlined how they arrived at the schedule for payment. They start with your income and allow you to take out so much for certain expenses. You get this down to your annual income and then you will pay accord- ing to that amount. She said they adopted the California I': . schedule. The department feels that they are under o~ders . from the Budget and Audit Cqmmittee to do this .. She said +.' • -, -L 't·'· .1-' • • ·r~. t· . vnar;l;ve neeCl GO rewrl e .'SIllS seC'Jlon next; SeGSlOD ... GeGvreef now and then some of the families are going into bankruptcy_ They are also'leaving the rest of their' children out in thEk . I sot0 s peak. i . ! Chance mov~d and asked unanimous consent that ihe a~eridmen~rs . be adopted. Orsini objected. He said it was his urider- standing that if you have a retarded child and say they are in Hope Cottage and they are st~ying therep~rmanently that it will cost more. than $50 a month to keep a child in a home. This should be what you would have to pay if the child were kept in his OvIn home.. Orsini' thinks that $50 is too low. Malone agrees. This is just an arbitrary figure. The actual collections are less than 10% per capita. This in some cases will work a terrific hardship on some people. This is to retain the state sources of funding but not to work a hardship on the parents;.next- of kin of the familv.~ Malbn~ thinks that some limit is fair. Orsini movesVto amend the amendment to insert $150 . .. Chance ab j ect s' ~... Beirn·e-····said~·that-·-the ···d_epartmen·t-··~-·is·---fai'l·~·· ~"'----"'~~'-'-'-'- ing in doing anything about this and that is why we have to try and do something to give these people relief. They just don't use good judgment. Malone moved to amend ,the amendment by say the figure should be $75. Tillion • I I said he had to pay $100 to keep his children in his own home while down here. Malone felt that what this .limit does is place a ceiling .and the person would pay a lesser amount if he couldntt pay the. full amount. By r2ising the limit you are not , I· a. 0 ,:j -. s ~ ""¥') -~ 1 "'t'''' rl a I~-' ~ ., ~- J~ .,n.... -:- h n. -,-.,. 1., -,..., Y\ .- - a 0 ~-. V""> 1' L r 1'" '"r\ r..... "'"'" 1": ~1 l· =- ~ 1,,,,", -! n ......... '-' ........ i..":> ... ct.l. ..L_- t/ v .....J t... c'_v -Dt; t.l!. ... ::...... ~~.t_~\.. )J'- ..L ":.').:"1./,-,_1.:.6 ct __ J_l!.!._!J ~.l.~ the bill. He felt that $150 W2S pretty high. ThiS, of .f course, would depend upon how old the child is. Beirne said thej had testimony on this point. One individual I' said that actually that if YOll have five or six kids it I doesn't cost a greater amount than if you only have one child. Tillion said that was true as soon as you went past about three kids--then you start getting the -279- ----------------------- Page 452----------------------- I 'I J Page 6 I I expenses down to where they are reasonable. Malone felt I I . thclt Ors1:-,i :3c1.0;115 thi~l~': ~::bQ:_:.~ 2,:J)D ',}:::2 m::.l(~th. E,;. =l.,:;r!.:: :HI3 55(\ .~() :-. t am01..J.tlt., Ti~li(?n. ~'..s~{e,j. . ;;I(~O ~\J2.S f,-~r the. a[:ter!d.:'-[l.2:~d: !. I ~o GDe amendmenc. urSlDl savea and askea unanlffiOUS consent C0'lection of to adopt the $100. Motio~ carried with Chance voting No. I , ( f" r Malone thought the a~endme~ts should be included in a CS. n ,-,/. e xP ... _ 0 , rn.ental pa:clenT:;s Orsini said this only applied to par~nts--what about guardians? Tillion said spouses have been included and he thinks they should contribute up to $100 per month. Tillion moved to add IISpOu.3e lf back in. Chanceobjected~ She objected because she thought people would be denied .. I treatment. Malone said that if we were going to do that there was more extensive work to-be done on this bill. This amendment only applies to spouses. Tillion suggested r that we turn this over to Randy and include not just the parents but spouses and leave. the $100 limit and. then bring the bill back to the cOITMittee. Chance objects. Orsini asked why not include legal guardians. Beirne said that was Hart~grs objection. The legal' . f I guardian might be somebody ~ho may h~ve received the estate of the individual in his name .. Chance said I t-hn"'Yl'IJ l\To'"Y>.-'" +-T.r"" +-TTY*'It.0.r-'f ,....+- -=-- ... ~ ....... ---. ....::J.~ ...... _~,.....1....... ....:: -- -':' '-~-.- - "! . ".. '.' ••-~ >J_J.'-.J..C- .n........... v.·'v.vJ.!:-' ..... u V.l. Ol...,.'-L.l..U-LQ.!.l0!l-L}.Iv, Ulle..L::> Gilt: e::>CClce and bther~the person. Beirne said that .was one reason this bill was held in HESS .so long.· This was one point that needed study_ It is a very good bill~ though. Tillion said he would be sure that the bill gets out of this committee. This would cover spouses and parents' with the $100 limit. Orsini said he never got an ans~er to his question. Beirne said that some people are given legal guardianship over a child just because they are kind people. The child ends up in API.and this then makes them responsible for the care of the child while in API. In the proc~ss we may have also knocked out someone who is a legal guardian. What about adoption? Chance said this was different. As an example--hersister dies and GC becomes the leg~l guardian of her children. If there is a problem and they need to be institutionalized ~-···-··--they·-··are ···not my children-, '--~ret"--'~-I--'''am burdened-"-tvit·h·····j_t··....j·ust··~ .--------.......... - ...' because I was assigned the legal guardian. Tillion said he was willing to leave the legal guardian out. This will be put aside until Randy gets here. B'eirne said there 1'las a six-month sta.tute of limi tations on the bill. Tillion thought that· was good. SB 219·- Execution exemption for income. This is Senator ~ ~"em·o.L.l· onl SB 219 E~tA hJ. l" . Ziegler's bill. Tillion said he will be taking testimony on this b!).~ ',-·/2 'will hO.~.;_.~.. ~..i~,~.,._~.'j~~~;Ji~I~._........:Ie~!.._Y>.go2~!..."tt-. som~ of our bills o u. t· of hi~.) (>~)[i1I;l~ t tee "- . ~ _.. ". ..... _. ~J. ._ Alas ka Le 32.1 Ser- vices said his informatio~ shows this to be Senator Croft~ bill. Orsini asked what execution exemption was. Mr. ~' -28<]- ----------------------- Page 453----------------------- Clocksin said it is money they take in a garnish~ent . ~-). ::.; :l.j- :~ 1-~ () 'lIt T:~ ;... L~ ~~ l .r) l-' ~: ~'1 ~-~ ~.. ; ~~;::- Cl2 ~T ;:. 2.r~ t~·2~·i~.~:::. ':: () i..'t ~(" :-.~ orrter a portion of.y6ur wa~es are taken out before yo~ receive it. They get the money from your employer. There is presently a state law and the federal law on this subject. In our state, federal law supersedes state law. This change was made in 1970. State law is still on the books. This incorporates the provisions of the federal law i'nto the state law. It is a mat ter of conforming state law to something already required under federal law. There is one specific part Which does provide for an exemption higher thari is mandatory in the federal law. That is the $114 on page 1, 'line 16. Tillion asked what the federal exemotion was. Clocksin 'said that it was $48 per week. Tilli~n then asked why we were going to $114. $114 is fairly close factoring to $500 per month which is the approximate cost of living rate in Alaska. The $114 wouid make it $J-t94 that would be exempt from attachment. This .is a rough figure, and is based on the minimum salary paid by the state to their employees. Any~ I. one receiving below that will be exempt from garnishmertt. That is the part of the bill th::lt is opti.011.2.:!.... The rest; i of it is mandated by the federal lai,'j. .' _., t I Tillion said he could see going to conformity 0ith federal I law. We have quite a few 'people making less than $500 a month in my area. They have property and are living quite well., They would be absolutely free from garnishment, then Mr. Clocks in said that this passed the House in the Seventh Legislatur~ and it passed the Senate last year with no dissenting votes. It died in the senate the year before that. Malone noted that we were talking about income and not necessarily about property. Clocksin said that was com- pletely separate. Malone said he thought it was most likely if someone is not working at a weekly wage where 'the disposable income doesn't exceed $114--wh~t you are .. _......_....._...._..._. try'ing- to -dO---is -get'blOod out of -a"-tlirrii'p-~'-Cl'()cksin" said" . this was the mandatory exemption .. Chance said it would be pretty h~rd to eat on that. Tillion said that in Anchorage it would be almost impossible. This has to be a legal debt, too. Banfield moved and asked unanimous consent to sign this bill out 'i;AJi th a TlDo Passu. recommenda- tion. Orsini objected. McVeigh called the question. Tillion said he could see going to conformity with federal lat\[' but felt that the amou_n"t ':T;::-:S too high. I'.TcVeigh said the qn1.y ;oi"'oblem '~\Ti th t{~3.t -.~:::L:) t'~-"2.t Tillio:"l ~'[~?,s ge::..ri:lt?; it to tc-ie people lj.ving i.;~. ~li3 comr;'!."Ltn.ity. 'i.lc~i.s .afi'ects the people in Anchorage as much as other people. Banfield said the second thing 'i'JT'ong ;'iith his statement ~'ias that, you are gearing it to stateside figuies. It is con~ider~ ably less there.' Chanceag2~n called for the question. Malone N8.S che cking to see :n·~·:n:; !i disposab Ie l! income VIas. -281-- ----------------------- Page 454----------------------- IT .5 Clocks in said it is defined in the bill. Tillion said I I No 6n wheth~r ~o put thi~ bill'out of committee. Banfield> I Chance> McVeigh and Malone voted Yes. The bill was signed I - out .l;'Tith Nalone~; Be1rne> f;"Ic\leigh) B2.nfield all signing I . tlDo Pass 11; Tillion signed nDo not Pass II; Orsini signed 1 I aDo not Pass unless amended!1. (Randy arrived at 4:55) i HB 550 - Liability for and collection of expenses of I Collection of hospitalization of mental patients .. (Beirne arrived 4:57) IHB 55 hasp. expo for Tillion said that we wanted to raise the monthly amount mental patients to $100 and include the spouse in our CS. Banfield said there was a problem with that. You can say that you are I married and that it is the responsibility of the other one to pay. We all know this isnTt always the case. I She said she could see people not letting the other party' get the needed treatment. Randy will prepare the CS. Chance said there is no other part of the law that says 6ne party is liable for anothe~ party's. debts: Tillion asked if that were true. Banfield said thatw~s right. Tillion moved to bring out a CS setting the limit. at $100 per month and to include Hspouse TI as vlell as p8.-~:>ent . .Chance obj ects to n Spouse rr • I:Ialcne said that one of the possibilities that we had discussed was to repeal this section of the law but you would lose the federal money_ Chance said she wouldn't want to lose the federal' monies. Beirne agreed with this. McVeigh, Orsini, and Tillion voted Yes on adding spouse. Banfield, Chance, and Beirne voted No. Motion failed. Beirne moved and asked ~'-····--·--:--~--·--·un·ahi··m6Lls····-c·6-n-s·e·nt-··-"t-o'---hav"e-----2:--" CS --··-pre-par·e-d-·--·-find·~··-t·~o·······vo~t-·e-·--i·t·····~·---·'·-··---- --.... --.-----...- out with a "Do' Passt! recommendation. .Orsini and Tillion signed nNo recTI; Banfield} McVeigh, Chance and Beirne signed I1Do Pass H • Malone asked the committee to look at the Native Claims Inher. of stock Sett lement Act _ (HB 834) Beirne said this passed last Native Claims year but it failed in the senate. They were checking Settlement Act some points on this bill. Tillion suggested we go on to HB r(14 ~ , , HB 71L~ - A&:~>.icultural land ~}ass~~f.:i.cation. Banfield Agri.c. Land wanted Orsini to explain this bill. Orsini said that liB ''"(14 (;1 ~lssi.flcation the world's population will double in the next few years because the Asian, African, 2'nd South American continents u are putting a strain on available land. Agricultural land will become increasingly sore difficult to keep. -282-· ----------------------- Page 455----------------------- L~/ 3 rage 9 Ol~~;~Lrrj~ s2.j.cl t~'!.at VTe }-1,~1.cl 3,1~;23~c~~~r ~~'2~~c11~~cl::.. J_iI~t·~t. O~t tJ"t..i.r OC02ns. We have to go b~~~ to t~~ soil ~o rai3e t~e standard of living. W2 need 2~re croplands to do this. Beef takes more acreage to feed per pound than it takes to feed a chicken per-pound. We eat more beef so it takes ·more resources to do it. We are trying to preserve potential cropland. He said this is already happening in the Mat Valley and the Kenai Peninsula. Mat Valley is rapidly being taken up by subdividing. The intent of the bill is to take state owned land with soil of agricultural potential and have the Commissioner of Resources to rezone that for farm use only. In addition, any private land owner with a parcel over 100 acres may voluntarily have his parcel zoned as agricultural if it is in the area of this soil. He will fall under 29.53.035 Which rezones itself to farm use land. - He has to be deriving 25% of his income from" -the farm. If the land is in this category~ he doesn't have to" develop his land 23 u.:::;.der the old la~·I. .l-Ie can,. just let it set if he wishes. Or, he could farm it but he couldnTtb~ild any industrial d2velopme~ts there. If at some time in the future he desires to take it out of the a~riculturalland zoning, he may do it under sec- tion (e). This would be after a hearing through the APA under the Co~missioner of Resources. It has to be approved He then has to pay the back taxes--the differences between /- the taxes~n the farm ~se rate and what he would have- paid .I under a different zone. Interest would be added. The pur- poge being to provide a double method of difficulty-from changing from agricultural zoning to something else. He said he felt that the Kenai people will testify that a number of homesteaders are being forced off their land because they have to pay too high a tax. Chance said that on page 2 you are talking about the Depart ment of Revenue. We don't have a statewide property tax. Orsini said the Department of Revenue doesn't tax. This is Cl state..zoDi.ng_pi).)... ..The state has to_do it _and pr_e-~---_--._-- ---- ..-- -------------s·umably it would go through the department of Revenue. Tillion said you would have to see that the local governmen gets the back taxes. Orsini said that if that is the case, then the loc~l government s~ould co11ect the back taxes. Chance said the local municipalities should be allowed to do this .. Tillion agreed th?-t back taxes should be paid tothemunicipality~ This will be amended. Orsirii agreed to the amendment. TillioD said we would have to ~ring this back befor~ the committee. It is a serious thing. Orsini said he VTasn r t against re~\Tording it. It I will be ch2nged so the loc~l ~overn~ent will get the ba~k - '11 taxes. I Orsini asked if the committee agreed with the concept. Chance asked if he was making sure that the assessment will be lower than if they wer2 assessing it as subdivision property. Chanqe said there had been some complaints as the tax assessments were based on the value as though it -283- ----------------------- Page 456----------------------- J:>age 1U Ti~lio~ 321d that was cultural land eXe;il~)ti()n. '~~lli.o~i satd that is alTe2.ct.~/ , ! \, on the books. Randy said that was true but it required that you receive 25% of your income from farming before I you could get this cla3sif~ca~ion. There is ~ question I on this. Orsini felt that it should be considered as I farm use land. Berry said he wasn't sure ·that it makes the person 'who ov'rns it eligible for the exemption. Tillion thought there should be a repealer on that section. Orsini asked about the person who had a home- stead on land not having the agricultural ptitential-- . what happens to him? TillioD said that he had legis-· lation in that would cover that part. He said he would· be happy to cover everybody under this. Orsini.asked' about 29.35.055(a). Berry asked if we wanted to keep the 25% income portion. Orsini said he would rather not change that section. Tillion felt he would be better off to make the change. Berry said that if you donft want to do that you should p~t so~~thing in (e) th~t . I will address itself to that problem; not 'withst~nding . , that the o~nerdoesnrt make the 25%. We n~ed to deal with that problem. This is 2 potential problem. The I local assessors may not go along with it. Orsini said .1 'VIle have a law covering grazing. This cou'ld cOme under farm use; that is~ if we determine this grazing land may not come under soils of agricultural quality. Orsini thought that we could amend the definition to cover t~e 25% problem. Malone recoIT!-::lended that we appoint Orsini as a subcommittee of one to bring the CS back to the committee. Tillion said this should encompass' two things: the 25% arid the back taxes go to the municipal government. Orsini said there is a grazing map. Under this bill it would be farm use land. So you are hurting your cause. Under present statute a person grazing can come under the present statutes if he is getting the 25% of hisin~ome from this source. If you repeal the whole thing you will ___ cause some. pro b lems . _______ ,____ ___________________ ,, ___ .______ .. _..._____ ._____ .- ______ .___ ,.,"______ .____ . '.. ________ .__._._ Tillion said he was in agreement with anything that stops the spreading of subdivisions on available land. Malone . noted th~t this was not. exclusive .. Tillion assigned Orsini to get together with Randy arid make sure that you can wrIte' it in the bill that if you are in this classi- 'f~cation that no per~entage of your income need by made fr6m the land. Malon~ said that Orsini's bill was not an attempt to lower tax~s but it is a safeguard that some land will be available for agricultural purposes per se. Tillio~~2id he w~nted it ~~~~ ~and clas~ifi2d ~nd~r 2 and 3 ~t11.:;-~-~2 -~~iould be no i~·~:c;~~-~ ="~:r'J8 ttle 1(1{lcl necessary- to get this classification . . ' Malone asked if the committe2 ~r'·;ould introduce the bill . ~) of on inheri tan'ce of stock in:;o:::'D.: orations or~2:o.nized under Inher'. stock '-' HB 034 the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act. (HB 834) This .native Cla:irlls was agreeable to the committee. This was submitted by Settlement Act -284- ----------------------- Page 457----------------------- D ..... ~.-. '"1 LUob":'" -'---'- Mieting adjolirned at 5:30 p.m. -285- ----------------------- Page 458----------------------- HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MINUTES OF THE f1EETING Thu:rsday, April 11,1974 Chai~nan Tillion call~d the meeting to order at 2:12 p.m. in Room 104 of th~ Assembly Apartments. Present were TillioD, Malone) Chance and Banfield. I HCR 86 - Study of penal institutions in Alaska - was the I first item of discussion. Tillion said this was the IHeR 86 Study of penal resolution that Occhipinti wanted to come down here to tnstitutions testify on. Tillion didn't think it was necessary to 5_D Alasl(a have him come do~n. Banfield asked who wrote this? I Tillion said it was John Elliot. Malone thinks the whereas clauses are confuSing. The unions donlt seem . I to be unwilling to dQ a little work iri the model incar- ceration camps on an apprenticeship basis. Tillion asked if they were \'lilling to let people do apprenticeship work I while incarcerated if their offense wasntt too serious. That it what this resolution is all about. Dr. Fritz wants this resolution passed. Chance said she w~s willing to l:lOVe it out with no r2co~sendation. ! ! IVlalone said he would like to make a motion for an amendment! II r- '1 '" +- " '" ./> 1 -1 y-,,..... c 1? ') Y1 .-1 1 1l r. '=' n"':::' 1 r r 1r Q .:::. Y\ t- h .:::. i Y1 m ~ f r.::> n () n T 1_ I J-IC-L......:.·,J·_ VJ...L _I....-l.....L..!,.'-'''-''. -L.J ~J.J.'-A.. ..!....,) t:';,..:...~- -*-.} .l.:I...'-_~ ""' .... ..1,. ....... --............. __ ...... - .f:"" ...... ~ ..... l lation busy and"-·-we should start ~.'Tith Uto H •.. On lines ·15 and 16 after "opportunity to repay the state and a victim for injuries and economic losses, as well as enabling them, ( perhaps, fT Malone moved to delete these portions 'of the resolution. Tillion asked why he objected to these words. Malone said he felt this was confusing. There are a lot of ways to keep them busy 2nd Has ~'lell as enabling them; perhapsH. Are they supposed to pay when they get out for the cost ·of their trial and incarceration. He said he felt that the court orders restitution. Malohe moved arid asked unanimous consent for this amendment. Chance thinks this is a good amendment. Tillion said this was for the' purpose of getting some of your tax dollars back for thei~ :-. " keep. ....-.- ............-.-.....-....- ... Banfi e 1 d- di dn t t··t hi nk-' t h a t-·the y-- needed .. ··the .. -wh ereas·-c 1a us e·---····· . on·sex behavior either. Tillion thought it would be all ~ight to take that one out. Malone moved and asked unani- mou~ consent to incorporate all changes into a CS for HCR 86. This would include the last whereas clause on lines 23-27. Tillion·objected for purposes of aski.ng a questioh. He asked if we have conjugal visit~ now in the prinons. Malone withdrew his motion. Tillion said he will vote ag~inst~the a2eridments. Chance said that in 1960 or 1951 when John Hellenthal had allow either fur- i· ! . loughs to visit the family C~ to allow the wife to visit I them in the jail. .' ( -285- ----------------------- Page 459----------------------- Page 2 T?r~·:l,r1. LJJ.rner"' ;::)(1ic1 tr:...(~rJ·t~ I::} (18 ~)r-·'JZ~>2_=-:~ E)~":'C~} 2~S I.., __ i~l 't;t~e division of corr~ctions but s~e ca~ chec~ this out. of penal Tillion called the question on Malone's first motion. Chance, Malone and Banfield agreed to the deletions. in Alaska This will be a CS. Tillion asked if the committee would like to vote it out at this time. Malone said that maybe some people want to make some changes in the last whereas clause so it is a' little more reada~le. Banfield felt it would cause too much discussion on the House Floor. We should leave it as is. Banfield, after further discussion on this point, moved and asked unanimous con~ent that we delete the last whereas clause. There was no objection. Banfield moved and asked unanimous consent the the CS for HCR 86 be signed out now "'lith a trDo Pass" recommendation. Tillion, Malone, Chance, Banfield and McVeigh signed "Do T Pass !. The last· clause deals with a feasibility study or ·Alaska's pe~al institutions. That doesn!t fit in with the rest of the resolution. I Malone began discussion of a bill that haa been ln~ro­ I · 8') ,; nR lilL. ->-. lnhe~. of stock duced on inheritance of stocks under the Native.Claims. I Alaska Native . Settlement Act. This was liB 834. Chance asked who Claims Act wrote this bill. Malone said it was Russ Mu2der. Chance said that when we discussed this earlier there had been a question as to whether this was going to be in con- flict with the adoption laws. Tillion didnft think there was any conflict. This new bill·fits better with the probate code.' Chance said maybe he intended for us to pass this act instead. Malone said ·it doesnTt c6ver everything that is in the other bill. He doesn't want to take action on this bill today_ Banfield felt we should put these bills out. Tillion said they were going to Rules. He felt that if you were going to pass. HB 834, then you needed both bills. Fran said that HB 834 amends the probate code. The new bill amends the health and wel- ...._______ .__ ._____ ._ .._f a re_..J! a de ...._.~jL~.. )1 $ 8. ct. 0 _..G$. _t.9 ._mak~... iJ~ q.().rlsi..~t .eT~~. - -we ... prob ab ly sllould pass both. Malone moved to' report- out HE' -834 '-i,~~ th·-·~a- ..-~-.~---..------- TfDo Pas s tT recommendation. Tillion -' f.1alone, Banfie ld, Chanc~., and NcVeigh signed tlDo .Pass,T1.- . Malone. moved to introduce the new bill--an act relating to certain custodians--with a comEli ttee. report and a ·"Do HB842 Certain Pass Tl recommendation 0 There 1t1aS no obj ectlon. Tilllon -,. Custodians Malone -' Banfield, McVeigh signed uDo Pass rI; Chance signed.. Hno' rec fI • . .')..~ -7.~ 2~ =- 1 =C .r.1 s t:: r:ll . I ~.l ::? 3 'J\ ~-; t: ~:i:9~a; ~eZ~~!e!~:t~~!:~~~e~a~1~lA~~~ c=:!o~~o:a~~et~~~erI~~ LL aLL Committee on f lonetary Policy. ~eillion said that Mr. Easta'lgh ,./ . ' was here to answer any questions. Tillion said that this allowed commercial loans for heavy equipment unde~ the Alaska Retail Installment Credit Act. Don MagnUsson asked if he could testify briefly. -287- ----------------------- Page 460----------------------- IL~/ll Page 3 I t E-I ;:; ~) =-~J ~L c~ t ~:~~:2 .~\! ~}~ (-}. \~.L ~'-t .:J y.~ -2 ,3..1 7) ~~ ·2~~ ~ :::: :~~ -.,~ fit l-: t: ~~ e b ill. !C) ~J. t: -:; i () ~.,t 1<.1 t r -. , ".L. '1 • 11' . -, tJ L ' ."1 tt • ~ f I " I liB '-!- .) sUgt~;83G tllat, 0[1. ~.lnes _ 0 2.(':ci 1.,) v~-2 ':ForCl unpa.lCl D':; I changed to "principal" filr. i'lagnusson represents the Alaska I Hl il. Instal .. Retail Association. This would bring the bill more in line c: ~- .iC' 1-\.11 (>1- 'I,. •• )(~.",,;~) .. '...,1 • ''t- '1 d' . - . -; L. C' - d t' , iH.l"'Cd tne common T/liar age :in "[;.:.12 lDaus·t.,ry. nance aSl(e ne I difference between. the unpaid balance and the principal bal-, ance. If you have $100 loan and you pay $20~·then you have an $80 balance--then you are still paying installment I r~turns on the $IOO? Mr. 2agnusson said that in the bill . it says. that Hunpaid balance 1I means Itprincipal balance Tf • ,I. He said he .agreedv!ith Chance that paying intere,st on money II you don't owe is quite abhorrent. . c' " , . ' . , ' " I Eastaugh said the present statute is on the unpaid principal balance. IncidentallY:1 what happened is the interim commit~ee-' on monetary policy decided to make a change in the particul~r part of the statute and the purpose of the change was to include a certain type of cOTl!!1ercial loan that would be elIgible for these higher in-:':;erest. rates _.Then) ha'./ing_ I' made that decision, ~ney decided to some so-called clean i up language. That is what ca~sed the problem. The clean I _up language really changed things around_-so that nobody I knew what the original bill meant. Now th~ bill is back in acceptable form. Tillion said that this allows you to charge interest on money you don1t owe. Eastaugh disagreed. The unpaid balance at anyone time can constitute the unpaid balance, or interest' charges that accrue at that moment. Interest ~hall only be computed on the unpaid principal balance. You can't, charge interest on interest or on service' charges. Banfield said in that case you don't need the amendment. Only if you put in rrprincipal ll at those two points and'on'page 2 delete section 16. You would have 61~aned it up with a lot 'less wordage. Chance asked' once again what l's "principal balance Tf? Fran said this was the cash sale Drice and read from the statutes. Tillio said~he basic _purpo.se...Jstp,.br~ng comrnel:'cial.loans intQ .. ----......--. "--'-this--'Act--:' -Mr'~:~~'Meekins had. a. question. He thought that federal law required interest rates to be below 10% for add ons. Mr. Magnusson said that is was 5/6 of 1% per . month which amounted to about 1.0%. Easta.ugh said that add on in this case would be about 17.6%. There is no reqqi~ement ~n the amount--just a statement of truth in len~ing about the amount. Tilllon said it comes under f~deral guidelines. You are adding heavy equipment pur- chases under commercial transactions. T~llion asked if there were a~y objections to the chQnges f i as propc)~·jed. by Iilr. r [2.gnu.ssor:. i'II:ll()~!e asked if t£'!.is bias !' to make tt clearer--his sU6~2stion was to say Itunpaid principal balance!'. Banfield said she thought it should only be the adding of PprincIpall!. Tillion said that makes it clearer. Mr. Meekins said this was an ~dd on tax. He said he could go to the bank and he would borrow $1,OQO. He pays 9-11% interest on the unpaid balance. On -,.288- ----------------------- Page 461----------------------- 4/11 Page 4 ·.tlOLt (l~:) i.s f!~~l\T(-~ (:tt.~~:j ()11 lnter~?~:.'G.. ~C:--::8.~- fJ..jj O~l $80. 1//12 ~f that is $10.80 each month. The rate is on the prin- cipal in the beginning. Then you pay monthly. That is the corrunon contract balance.- Chance asked what -this did basically--allow the banks to charge a higher interest rate on the contracts? Eastaugh said that it was to extend the number and types of trans- I actions to take i~ heavy equipment. Before, that wasnTt I allowed. At the bottom of the page) that which is under- II lined language, lines 28 and 29 and the next page, lines _ II and 12. -That- was the original purpose of this amend- I "atory legislation and the interim committee got the I -language all messed up. - Banfield moved to add "balance Tt on lines 16 and 18 and -to delete the last two lines on page 2. There was no I objection. (McVeigh arrived.2:50) Tillion sai~ we would I have a CS draft~d. ! I Banfield asked Eastaugh if he meant to $ay that the banks t can! L Hlo..ke heavy equipment loans without this legislation. I He said that V·las correct. Chance said they could make _ t l6ans for commercial purposes but they had to have them at a lower rate Qf interest. Eastaugh_said on this bill that it is somewhat restrictive. Banks can't participate in these loans. Lines 24 and 27 limit banks to charging 11.8% interest. McVeigh said he was late because 6f the weekly call from the Chamber of Commerce in. Anchorage.- He said this subject was brought u~ today. There were numerous questions, but they favor this legislation. Apparently they are limited in their ability to purchase heavy equipment because of the lack in the law that this bill covers. While he said he didn't like the idea that these people selling heavy eqUipment charge these high rates of iriterest, the people. don't seem to care as long as they can get the money. Eastaugh said that Alaska '. needs 'a -monet'arY"market ~.-.- He· saId ,>'r2 11Tere ._'J uS t"dri ving--"-····_· lf I the business Houtside • J1cVeigh said that was his general impression. (Orsini arrived at 2:55) Malone couldn't find existing law on this. McVeigh moved the bill out with a "Do Pass lt recorrnnendation. This was to be replaced with a Judiciary Committee Substitute for HB 49L~. Tillion, Malone l and McVeigh Signed ttDo Pass Tf • OrSini, Chance, and-Banfield signed nNo recl!. HB734 - dost e~timates and consumer protection. Malone mO"rled to" "report out the CS='C)2 .:I.3 734 I,\jith S. nDo Pass It HE 73L~ recommendation. HeexpeC~2i 2028 discussion before ~ign­ ing it out. O:esini- said th~:.~; section 1 didn r t make sense. Fran checked the material in the statutes. It says - that you cadt ch~rge for repair more than 20% of the estimate. There must be some mistake. Banfield said it should be 120% of the estimateA- Chance said that maybe we should ask the sponsor what he meant. -289-- ----------------------- Page 462----------------------- __~______~C7~----~~----~~~--~~------~~~~14TIT _ ! - P~~0 5 I She was sure that -this me3..nt 20% abQVs::the estimated I ,.--:'''._ ~:-). !...,_, , Ii'* .....""'I-v") .... "". (-r """~(,,"'l~ 1"·- -"...,... c· ,-,.": --: ~- 7-.. '-'-f"_"'.. ~)",).,'''\~'':IT>""",~" ~.:.,~ ___.., "_?'.',,~'--'.-:. ="( i- ~. i -"'T) t -~._j .. _ ..L'~::.~ :_ ~/ ..~.(.,~_.~_ ·~_. __ ~!:i-:::_~.r 0 .:.:._~t_.... ;__ . ... _~ -..!. __ --' _ ~ ~,!_ -' .~,;~.•~~ '.' :'::..L i ;':'0 r f)f~~lt i:; G l(i!~ ~::]·~C223~:J!! ~Jj'3.-~) C;::;ttel' 12.r'l.i~t..~~tge ..rrill~1.. ori 3:.~id this would make it tough on the handyman type who doesnTt Cost estimates provide estimates; He said that-for nearly all furnace I U and roof repair you hire the person and whatever it costs that is what you pay. TiIlloD asked i.f the committee I want~d additional testimony on this. ,He wasn't in Com- merce when they discussed it. I Banfield noted that if someone repairs your TV he has to I I provide a gO-day warranty on parts and labor. Orsini said I the repairman himself doesn 1 t get a warranty on the parts. I .Gardiner said that when he started out with this bill I I originally, it _i/Jas a simple bill. There have been a great many additions since its inception. He-said he didn't intend for a guy to prepare a term paper on fix~ng something. There are all kinds of things that could be included. This talks about who you include and who you , exclude. This is riot for contractors. _ One of the things !- that 0as add~d was the- claase on providing a ,gO-day war- I rant y on part 3 an d 1 ab or . It pro0 ably has - a lot 0 f rile r 1t but it is not that big a thi~g. Banfield asked Terry if t , he 7 vI/uuld like l,ogo- back to the original bill. He said he wouldnTt. McVeigh said this bill has a lot of things t that are not very practical. ! ( Chance noticed about the 20% figure on pa~e l~line 13 that in other parts of the bill they say which is not more than 20% above the written estimate. Orsini asked if we just V . hadn't passed or strengthened the consumer protection bill regarding business praCtices. Tillion said that was true. Orsini felt t~is was already taken care of in~the previous bill. Tillion disagreed because there were too many change . Malone would like to have a subcommittee work on the bill and bring it back before the cOlTh.llittee. Tillion appointed Malone as a subcommittee of one to ~vork on this. McVeigh asked for discussion on HB 559 - Compensatlop __r9..r_.~. __________ ,__ " Hi g hOt s-;:;, 0 f-:;:;;W ay--·--------t aking r i ght-s -~ of;:;.TN a y--- a-c ros s --- st a t-e-'-'le a-s"es-~"-- -- Ti 1 i lo'n -- 's a j-_ d-- state leases there had been a CS prepared for this bill. We will ,have - some xerox caples made. \-Tni Ie ~'rai ting we lHi_ll. go on. HB 572 - Evasion of custo¢y by minors. Tillion said thatHB 572 Evasion of we should hold this until Dr. Beirne is here., Chance cvstody by thinks there is a constitutional prpblem with it. Tillion minors said it will have to have the courts added to it. Malorie wanted to relate something abcut the history of HB 572. The reason this bill-is in thi3 committee is to kill it. l"" i Back toE3 559 - This one ~;~~t 0~ to Pinanc2 2nd _then- they requested that it be sent back to our committee. 'FIB 559 There were several questio~s r2i~ed th~t weren't covered when it 1i'JaS in this committee t~:1e first time. We have had a CS drawn to answer those ~~estions. The bill has been reduced quite a bit in size. ----------------------- Page 463----------------------- Orsini said that it says orovisio~ of the state land that the state may C~82 a~d ta~ea right-of-~ay in th0 ! land you have leased? Then that is part of the value S-of-vlay leases of the lease in the first place. The person taking the I lease from the state--he would pay you more but you say ! in here that you may take a right-of-way when you want i to. Now we are saying--notwithstanding that if the state f takes a piece of the land that the state must pay for the reduction in the value. It seemed to Orsini that I there are two reductions in this case. Mr. Meekins said I I there was no reduction in any lease because of the right- , of-way section in the lease. Orsini disigreed and felt this was bound tobe in the lease. Mr. Meekins said the state has the right to come over any property because the·y i have the right of eminent domain. The'way they are inter- ·preting the lease they can not only take a piece. of the I lease but the whole thing. This will enhance the value I of the lease now. In Finance Mr. Hartig said you will . -1 practically destroy the lease and it will be pr~cti6ally uieless unless you pass this. ! I Malone had a questionoD the prop8sed CS. On lines 16, t l7~ and 18 there are two types of values. One is the value of easements granted by right-of-way and the other t I is the reduction in value of your lease. HedidnTt see I any reason for the duplication. No reason for the double indemnity in the bill. Tillion said that from what he I gathers if they reduce the size of your lease, they will i reduce the amount of your lease accordingly. They do .t that now. Sometimes this reduction leaves you with some- thing no longer of economic value. While they have· taken I only a small piece of the lease they have destroyed the value for which you leased the land. McVeigh gave another example. Say you leased a 20 parcel lot. They take a parcel out of the middle as opposed to taking a lot out of the corner. They ought to take the lease i~lre+0.t~on.,.t.9..J~hE;._()\terall value _of, the.property..... --'-"""-'---'--"--'Orsini"aske'd {-{ there ~vasn r t an eminent domain statute per se that says if the state exercises its right that the owner will be compensated. It would seem cl~arer to ad~ that the lease would' be added to that. Take the land that he owns or leases--then they repay them. Tillion said that our state leases say that the state withholds the right at rio more than the cost of the lease to take any _ land they want ·for access. This leaves the person with a lease that isn't wo~th very. much at~~ime. -Malone said he ~'lasnftsatisfied. vri'th I'licifeigh's explaD2.tion iHith this I thing; Th~ir taking away a po~tio~ of the property which I ~educes the value of the.rest of it--they may have> b2c~use i of where they took this right-or-way -' reduced the -value by 50-80%. He didn't see the reason for the double indemnity> though. -291- ----------------------- Page 464----------------------- I Lt/ll .Page '( ! ! Ors:.Lrl~t t!,sl,:;:~cl 1;111~ti: 1·1.~::1·Pf)e~1S ~..;~~~:::~ -;-;r:c: st~te t.J~l(:;s ~ 'Oe)rti.();:. j~~ \.) ,'(' ]:' j~ ",: -- {,J £, --- ~/ f ct ::/ E:.:. (:_ ~~i b ~J. .: J_ .]_ -3 (.?_ ~-s ~=) ·s. c~ t ii. i-~ '<).tl z; h =~ c equired ·five acres and they took one acre and it was leased land, they wipe out your business. They wouldntt hive to pay you for it either. . Malone sald thls says trshall be entitled tofT. Maybe you want· to clarify the eminent domain statutes. I don't think the loss is· double. Tillion said these people are ~ntitled i to compensation. Malone didnTt think the material on lines •. 15 and· 16 was necessary. He ~'12..S referring to the Hfull . payment of damages. TT Orsini said in addition to that you would have the value of the leasehold .. He wanted to know if that included buildings. Is the business included in the leaseh61d? Tillion said they are not compensating . for the loss of business. Mr. Meekins said this was put , . in by people who thought it was necessary. If you have a piece of property and they are going to take right off through the center or maybe they are going to put a ramp for an overpass. They have des~royed the value of the rest of the property and they are not paying for it. McVeigh said that Malone is correct. If you delete the language beginning on line 17 lIthe easement If it Ttlould . read the value for the reduction) etc. Tillion said that only covers one thing. i/Th2.t about the reduction in the business? Malone felt that the leaseh61d was the lease and everything on it. ~hs value in the lease and .the reductio~ in the total r~~~ est2te would be compen- ~::>at·ed for. You have a leas':? ~:~y:'th $50:1 000 arlc1 you.. com- pletely ruin this and the fi~2.1 value is ·say $500. Orsini tt req·uested tl1e definition of nleasehold • McVeigh said u -292- ----------------------- Page 465----------------------- the values shall be like in emin.ent dOP.'lain. .:C- ''\ ',~' 'J .. ..i.~ irt:~~.:3 . Tillion said that when you take a lease there is a pay I back provision. They will pay you back the value tte . lease has been reduced but not for the business that has f been planned for ·the length of the lease. McVeigh said f'. it doesn't do that_ Tillion said IIb lT takes care of it .. There was a separate question asked about the lease. Some I interpret this a~ meaning lease and everything with the jl lease. If we need an amendment similar to ,what McVeigh. suggested~-A person would get compensation under eminent I domain for wriat his real loss is. If you put both of them in there, it was felt you would be confusing the issue. Orsini said that you would have to have general" agreement that if a person suffers a loss for every- thing that he should be compensated acc6rdingly. Maybe we could get our counsel to make sure that this is. in ·f., .L. he. '0 l" l 1 I'P i -?- l" co l" n .L. h D 1"'j" 1 YO o~,r 1 c::.'/'" U S D ~ ~.~. l" -f- 0 ' d... i G .• '-' "- ...L...L.. 1.. - v ,0 1, G 1. ......, !J - J... -'- .!. l. '":J '-' I., . . ~ 0. U ':' V lA. v • ~ Fran said th~t it might depend upon the context. She I will look at this. She felt that it was the value of that which is bein~ leased--it mayor may not mean to include the business. Randy prepared. this for the com- mittee. I Mr. Meekins said that a leasehold is pretty easy to explain'.. /'~' \.t.~ There are improvements if you have a rented building and ~~ you remodel it to suit your needs. The businessman would charge this off to exp8nses. From the staters standpOint this is only the land and not the buildings. It repre- sents the land only. If you have a building on the land then it is under the federal statutes. If you leased 15 acres of swampy land and you improved it by diking and .cleaning and draining it and add fill material and you are leasing the land but i~tend to also sublease--here eom.e.s...th~._.s.~?:te.. ~anting a,. r.ight-of-vlay thr'ough ..t.here ~_ .. _...... __ ......... ~ .. "..... __ .. :.... __ .. This has reduced the value to the ones to whom you sub- lease as well as yourself. As quick as these people can move}' they will. Orsini asked about another example. Say you are leasing" a five-acre tract as a·recreational lot. You build an A~frame on it and alopgcomes a road through your property. The value is destroyed because of the highway destroying the recreational valtie. Origirially you are paying a small amount fo~ this p~ace in the woods--would you be compensat8d' for 'the l""e::h:.ct ...Lon· in. the .r:2c::"e~iJcior!.2.1 los~)? ~I.ll1.1ionsaj.d I. that under. t;~~e first haIr ,/:.)U :,'[Quld get you." :~i40 o3.ck but ! your house Would not be covered. Meekins said that (a) covers this. Tillion said that Randy wrote this so·he probably would have the explanation. Tillion suggested that VIe wai t for him. McV'e 19h thinks we should move it out--he thinks it includes the loss of the business. Ban- field asked if he wanted his amendment. McVeigh said he -293- ----------------------- Page 466----------------------- i4/11 -I l i di,o.. - felt it was better . ~:L 11~Lon c1 iell". r t .- I : ~';~ 2 ~:; ~(~~!. ~5 '.3 2. i d .~t\i :::: ~.. \I ~l:l.~~; co:-n~)-erLsat1on for trl2 value of t::-:: la:lCt. out. Banfield th~nks that ~e should leave it alone. Banfield cioved that we leave this as it is. McV~igh I moved and asked unanimous CC;:;'S2r1t for a !rDo Pas ::,>11 reCO)Jl- j I mendation. There was no objection. Tillion, Banfield~ I I - and McVeigh signed- "Do Pass tl for the CS for HB 559.' Orsini signed "Do Pass if 2.::nended I!. I The next item for consideration was HB -714 ~Agricultural t~?;r_i c, IJa~nd_ ~'] ,) Classification land classification. The ch2nge in (e) clarifies the IHB intent on lines 10 and 11. Orsini explained the changes I -"I that were made. Tillion said this was strictly a philos- ophy on taxation. Orsini said this was for state _owned I I land. That is only about 20% in Alaska and it has to be soil with agricultural potential before it can be classified as such. It will be zoned. - Private land in : the same soil classification if the owner so desires can I have his-land zoned this w~y. Then he will get a tax break~ - I The ~tatute currently says h~ has to be getting 25% or his I income from the bU3iness of agr~culture. To ~et this 1- changed- you pay back taxes pl1J.s interest'-,::;.nd. you have to . i have a hearing. McVeigh said this was a soil bank bill.! Orsini agre_ ed with him. T~l~.lion said he was r.or _it. You ~. need areas to grow food. CSHB 714 was signed out. Tillion -Orsini, and McVeigh signed uDo Pass ll ; Banfield and Chance signed "No rec TI • _ _'. _ . - I There was discussion on HE 768 - Penalty for drawing -a check with insufficient funds. McVeigh said he couldntt HB 768 Hrlting of- believe this. Banfield sa~d she was not in favor of put- . '0 ad che cks ting this biil out. McVeigh said we were dropping the lower limits. Tillion said that the Commerce Committee had an amendment. Fran said this made a lower threshold. The purpose probably being to discourage bad check writers. Orsini felt this was excessive pun{shment. _ Banfield moved to put this bill back in the file.- Motion- carried. - ~ ~.-~- ,-.- .,- ...--- ~,- .... -- ..-'--- - --- .....-" ~ .. .. ".--_.__ .. ~.~--,---.- - .- .- ...-.. ---'-"--'~----'----' .. -. -. ----_... -. -_._._----_.....-, --~. ----.... -~.--- ---- .. ..,._ ..._--._--.__ ._--- .-'.-~-..-.------ --....-- ..---~--~..-:.: ....._.- --'---..-.-_. CSHB 591 - Closed hunting areas close to highways. McVeigh Closed hunting said you can't discharge fi~earms 60 feet on either side HB 59 1 . areas/high fJays of the highwais now. Orsi~i said this is closed if the advisory board says so or not. Banfield doesn't want to have this bill. We will send down to Fish and Game and ask.'for their written opini8D on this bill. . HB 561 ~_~equiring r~ports by persons treatin~ those injured by 'Iiolence. Ti2.LJ«i. 3.sked committee members HB 561 :~::-:9 ():c ::::L;'-f:; . ir- th2:);- :/T,~lrlt~~ t·o lo()l( clt ~'~~'.~~S L!-~ll. I·;I.~~,r(:-~L,gll. sa:Ld this ~: .'C1 t.; .~J. :=-. : ;~. t"~ ';.-.~ () ..{. is not a ad bill. 8a~fi~:~ s~~d they ha~2 tried to u.eed get- thl.S passed every _sJnc:;? :'::;[>2 has been in the legis- by violsnce lature. There is always so~ebody that likes to beit up people so they donTt like the idea of reporting such things '-.L,,! ----------------------- Page 467----------------------- (+/ ! L Pa~e 10 . . i Orsini asked if you were in a softball game and you ! ~~ ..~~ ~) ;5· _~_ , i 1 I l i by v'folence I Tillion said we had the CS for HB 633 - Carrying of fire- l Carryi,ng of arms 'in places licensed to sell'intoxicating liquor. The ~B 633 Firearms! CS was prepared by Urian. Banfield said she was not inl l)laees . selling favor of this type of legislation. Tillion said it had I liquor been asked for by the state troopers in the Wasilla area. . i Orsini suggests saying that a local government may establisH an ordinance to take care or this. Tillion said they had I . I , a problem there because Matsu Borough hasn't accept policin~ powers yet.; so these people have a problem. 1tJhat really I brought this up was they called the police for someone I who was shooting up a bar. When the policeman came through the door, then the gun was empty. ThatTs the only thing that saved him. That is one of the' risk~ that an officer has to face. Tiliiori told the committee they might want to put it out to help them'in that a~ea~ Orsi~i asked if th2.1oCQl gcvcrn~cnt dbe3n 1 t have policing powers, they can't pass an ordinance to do this--then ~hy don't we say they can do this even though they don't have policing powers? McVeigh said,the'only place that this would apply is in the nonorganized borough. This is for the rural areas. This is where you have the most justi- fication for having guns. Banfield said that many of the lodges have dancing rooms and they serve liquor. The guys couldn't even clean their guns. TillioD said this only covers the bar section. McVeigh asked 0hat about room service? HB 835 - Expanding duties of the Governor 1 s Commission Expanding dut- on the Administration of Justice. Tillion said that HB835 ies of Comm. Jamie had asked to be here on this bill. The bill is on Ad~. of verbose as written. I think. it should be rewrit~en to Justice .., ...... -.---- ...-.. - e l·iminate·' (e).··" He· gave"-some"'s ugges tedlanguage··;·'··-'It···--··-·c:-···__ ·-·· _.._- ... _..-.... . changes what is being studied. Banfield said it doe~ not mention the departments. Jamie said they could be mentioned but you don't have to mention them. He didn't think it was necessary.. Jamie said he was told by the Commissi~ner of HESS that it may give it more class not to mention departments v . The main thing.) . though., "Iiould be to eliminate the provision for the five-year plan. Orsini asked if the Public Defender was with the Depart- ment of Law. Fran said No; they are with theGovern~r's O~f~~fice 2 • Jalilj~2 noi~ed '~11at t~e bil.l s2id 't5~ta4t'2 ::ln~L loc.al lt i level Pran s2.id·that it s:-:ou.ld be ma.declea!' v·Jh:3.t you I . mean·by cri~inal justice persannel--youshould identify r them. Tillion said that he liked Jamie's changes; He felt we nee·ded to make a decision on (e)--whether He should remove it or not. -295- ----------------------- Page 468----------------------- p ~ 0-;':' 1 1 .' ...... - -_ .• Jamie said it was a. good function and they ought to be said·he was notne~essarily in favor of removing this Ex'- 'i.nding dut- part. Banfield said they don't read ou~ letters of tU~f COI~m. intent so we should probably leave it in. on Aam. 01 Justice Frari said you still had the'problem of what are crim- inal justice personnel. It isnft defined and that makes for a problem. That r s vrhy '\'12 generally refer to the departments. Banfield thinks that th~s is good like it is. McVeigh said he v.Jas really against (6) and (d) ~ t~re get these five-year plans every year. It takes two people to prepare them and \'!hat purpose does the five-year plan accomplish? Jamie asked if it would be fair to say that the long-range planning--you wouldn't want to put this in. What about the lack of coordinating personnel? This type of planning is badly needed. Till~on said we should bry some other language on li~2 24~ page 1. he suggests. that '.;1j8 c:;,""o'ss oue !?prograT~s G.:1d pe27sonnel in the Department . of Law .. I! • The deDartment shall c.ssist the personnel in' ~ - -- 8. lIlCl!lflt!i;' ·~\illi(;ll fJI··0ject3--(:~JlltiI!Ut:; "litll ..tIle lila.lcei'ial 011 lines 28 and 29. McVeigh objected because we are just codifying what an i"ndependent commissioner ought to be doing any way. Jamle said the commission was refusing to get involved in the planning for coordinated personnel. Orslni moved for a lTDo Pass fi recolThl1endation on HB 835 after the CS has been prepared. There was no objection and the bill was slgned out. Tillion, Orsini, McVeigh and Banfield signed liDo Pass H • Noise Orsini asked if we could look at HB 39 - Noise nuisances. Nuisances He wanted to get any questions the committee might have so he could provide the answers or needed testimony. Banfield didn't think this bill had any chance of passing. Orsini said he was proposing an. amendment to cover the ....-----.- . 'obj ection--'of" Repres'entative Hartig:-·-This·-t'ras'with·'·'·---·-·--··--~--·--·· respect to the legality. He got an opinion from the AG and it would be legal. Banfield asked how you measure decibels. He said they have a measuring device. Orsini said that since the Resources CS he has changed it again and in the proposed CS for Judiciary it is only for motor vehicles. McVeigh said that it wouldn't· cover snow· mach~nes~ Fran suggested. that a definition should be added. Orsini said it is intended to cover offroad types of' things including snow machines. If you wanted it in this se'etian to include sno~ sac~ines yciuwould only d·2fln2 it t~:'2.t '.,.ray. liIcVeig2. 2.S~~':::G ;dhy VT2 couldn r t say off ·road vehicl~s. Orsini s~id that the concept was to 7 get all veh1cles Jncludlng snC ;j rnachines to be unde.r this. McVeigh asked if this was a b problem on the pipeline. Orsini said it more like a ~uffler law but substitutes motor vehicles'. We are deleting Hin normal operating condltion.r! That was a problem to define. He felt that with the rc~st of it~ there :'[2.3 noproblem~ . -296-- ----------------------- Page 469----------------------- P~G'A l? LillI .. -'U~ Fran read from the statutes--the definition of motor proDerly. This will be a Judiciary Committee Substitute. Tillion) Orsini, McVeigh and-Banfield signed liDo Pass lt • Meeting adjourned at 4:45 p.m. - .-. - - ,,,.p - •• -".<._- ..._---_ .._ .....__ ._--_.__ ._._-":-. __ ._-._--_.__ .. -.-~---..-----.----.- -- ._-..__ .._-----_._.- ------ - -- ..__ ._---._-- -_.- --- -- ------------------_ .. --- --" -------_._--- '. -_..._--"" -- -.----~. ---.- ..----.-- -.-.~----------. - .-.. -... --~.- .-29?'- ----------------------- Page 470----------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------~~--------~--~-c-------ri4/,1/12 ! HOUSE JUDICIARY COfJIMITTEE I i71ITV r·TINTJTES ~...:..-..:....; Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order in' Room 104 of the Assembly Apart2ents at 2:.42 p.m. Present were Tillion> Banfield, McVeigh, Malone and Berry_ HB 804 -.Requiring state compliance with local planning> State compl. platting and zoning ordinances. McVeigh said that the HB 804: 'l!ith plat~ only comment he heard about it is that it should be with I ip12n. &: zon. the proviso that the local' ordinances are at· least as '1 stringent as the state's. Tillion said that was reason- able. McVeigh felt the stcte should cot'~plyif the local . I ordinances are more stringent that what the state requires'. If the local government didn't have any ordinances at all then the state would be required at least. to meet their own. The state shouldntt have to drop any requirements. The state should have to go up to local government stand-' ards, but not gd lower than stcte .standards. Orsini asked if this was for planning and zoning. Tillion noted that before the construction of public works in a munici- .pality, a department shall confer with "the planning com- ~ission. They donfthave to do that. (Chance arrived 2:55 p.m.) McVeigh said he could imagine a local govern-' ment having no planning and zoning so the state "\.Ilould not be bo~rid by anything~ not even their own standards~' Orsini asked about building. Is a building code different frofu planning and zoning? McVeigh said it was. Orsini then asked how the agricultural bill would fit in with this. Chance said it wouldn't have any bearing on it at all. This is state construction within a municipality. This may also include subdivisions. Tillion didn't see. any conflict. Orsini asked if we·were saying that the state must comply \,li th the local zoning ~ In actuality.) state zoning would supersede. Berry said there was no' conflict here. If the state standards are higher> then theywo'uld have to._follo~\J_their OVin .standards .._.... Malone. __ .~_.:--. said he thought there was some place in the statutes where it says "you must cor;-:plytf. Tillion said that line 17 was the problem; 1-'lThere it says Hand to the same extent as other landowners. If You have political subdivisions:J these are below the other standards. They could co~e in with a ~tate construction program downgrading their ow~ standards. He felt that McVeigh's idea was fine. Malone suggests that we put some ls.nguage in there o' Tillton said we 'could remove the n:u and a.dd the additional language fhere, McVeigh (:;2id the.t th';:: stat2 -,~-. -: i COl1tJ..n:..~e to gst i~'tto lo~'r cost hou3ing. They ~ill h2V2 ~tandards for lighting, etc. Most of these communities don't have local ordinahces and the state will even ignore its own standa.rds. He said this is what has beeri happening in Anchorage and vicinity. Chance l'"'ecommends we add !lbut in nO"circumstances lower than state standards ". f.1c'V-eig{~l said that VIas \.'ihat he was. recommending. -293- ----------------------- Page 471----------------------- I f L~/.i2 Page ~ I I3 .:-~~ ·~~L'.~r :3 ,~~l'i ,:1 t l! Ei t i t-- 10.:=: c; 1 () =~r:~i _L L~ .:l[~ (~.2 S c~ ~ 11:2 g l)~ J_ [:t~ i ()-:-1 ~ 2l-'l·~ .I t t; :~ 0._), n L,t [Cl.)r(:; st:~')i(1~:;~~r1t~ t:·~:EJ.l1· ~~!10'.3~ C)j~ ~~'1e ·:3t2~~;~:1 ~t\Je ~/rrl::--lt t(~. '';OD- t L"_--' ,~ sider that, 'CGG. 'I'i.1.1~or. ::)2.:~ (.~ t.hat Randy ~'jtll iHOr~(- on i I the language for the amenc"iment. Malone said that we have S3 294 - Development City of ISB 294 Development Lost River. It goes to Finance next. Tillion said that Clt:'l of Lost when you dissolve the city, the native corporations pick 'River up the land. If you don't, the land will revert to the state. He said he had the AGworking on this. If the natives took it to court, they would get it anyway.· Malone said'he would like to Dove this bill along to the Finance Committee. Tillion said he didnTt have any objec- tion to moving it on. Malone moved to take up SB 294 . .There was not objection to discussion of thiS, measure. You might lose the ability to choose particular lands in this area. McVeigh said the natives would like to select some of the land. He said he had some l~tteri from the . director in the Denartment of Natural Resours8s.Tillion asked him if he would get someone to come in and testify on this for the COEll":'li tte2. ~'ie Y'iill also neeclsomec):c1e from the AGTs office; and Willie Hensley. This will be scheduled for Monday, April 15. Banfield requested the discussion of HB 572 - Evasion of Evasion of custody by minors. She agrees that unless you bring the HB 572 , Custody courts in it is a bum bill. She asked Tillion if that <~-.,Nlnor was what the CS did. Tillion said we would have to get Ii:'.... - ..<.;.......~;" a copy of the CS . Malone objects to this bill because it allows the arrest of runaways. Tillion said there is some wording-that makes it constitutional. Banfield said that the Speaker had this bill on his list. Till~on on page 1, line 27 where it says nor agency in \'Ihich he has been placed in the determination of the court or the Department of -' - Health and Social Services, \.'li th the concurrence of the _________ ._________ court. Page __ 2 __ you delete_ flto the_ court by the Department ________ ,___________ , of Health and Social Services Tl and insert flby the court Tr • Tillion said that otherwise the bill is unconstitutional. Malone said that he still objected to the bill in that it makes running away a crime. I think if you are going to pin a :crime on somebody it should be on the parent or guardian and not the child. They should be guilty of the crime if the minor chron~cally runs aVlay. Banfield asked if he had talked to H~len Beirne. McVeigh said that according to our statutes on runa~ays> this could not be USe c1 .toe 1ass i f'y t ~1 e m 3; S d '21 i n ~ U 2 n t E! in 0 r 3 • 0 r sini 2:.:3 k t-:; d ~·JYl3.t .hap.pen.::~ ·v'rhen 2~ CClil(l b~eE;ll·~s a T;1i.::1c10T;\I, etc ~, the'- par'- ent is responsible. Why not make the parent responSible wheri a ·ch~ld rutis away? Chance said that they were unless the child had been emancipated through the coutts. -299- I I I ----------------------- Page 472----------------------- : l.' /-1 ') I ,r -'- '- Chance moved to table HB 572. I , j eIi~fI ~~~~1::~~~~~n~~~~~H~oi~i:i~~:~~;~IE!~:~I~:!~~1= "II 58? 5 ·~,'~'-i Z~O" O.. /.~.!.- ~ - Cr -,-.Elina.. l wanted to·remddel this and ask for LEAA funds. Chance .Activity in said you couldnltdo th~t. Malone thought it was proper Alaska to ask the department to do this study. This is specially true when you consider that other parts of the criminal justice system don't have the investigative staff. He felt ~t was proper to ask them or Public~Safety to do this. He didn't think it prop~r to drop it all in the law enforce- ment agencies' lap. Orsini said it doesn't say that the 1 Department of Law has' to do the study. They have to presen~ the completed study. Motion was made to pass this resolu- I tion out with a Do Pass recommendation. Tillion, Malone} tr Orsini, and Chance signed l!Do Pass • Banfield and McVeigh signed nNo reel!. . . The next" item for discussion 'Has SB 3l3am - Bail. Jamie Bail tove testified on behalf of the original senate bill. Iss 313 Chance said that thIs is aft~~ conviction. Tillion ,.' .i am agreed that a person 'Hould have to~convi~ted and then he ! has an apP8al--udil call! L; U~ Cilluweu 1n -che interIm. , Malone said this w6uld jus~ eliminate any right to bail for those convicted for first degree murder~ etc.; after they irlereconvicted and only during the appeal.' Jamie said he had a qu~stion .. This doesnft mean somebody that' has been convicted in the past? That was correct. Tillion said he would entertain a motion to pass this out. Chance moved to report out SB 3132-In.. Tillion.,· Malone, Banfield, Orsini, 'and Chance signed I1Do Pass II • Back to HB 804. Tillion asked Berry if he had the language ready. He said it should be II shall comply 'VIi th local HB ·'804 State compl. planning and zoning ordinances and the local regulations . - 'with plat. and in the same manner as other land owners ~o long as thej plan. ,'& zon.· are at least as stringent as state standards. Tillion recomrnends a CS be prepared .. Chance moved to adopt the _..... CS '--for HB'" 804 -.---Orsini'" 'obj ected;--'-He 'said-that--it--'doesn r t---- say anything about if they are not as stringent. Tillion sai~ that if .they are more stringent they will obey them. Berry said that he could say trprovided that local regula- tions are not less stringent!'. This bill was signed out with Tillion, Malone, Orsini, Chance, McVeigh and Banfield sig1)ed '''Do Pass ll on the CS for HB 804 .. Receiving SB 394 - Receiving of stolen property. McVeighasked SB394 Stolen Property about lI re buttably presumed". This is aV1lkiHard. The ~eason it is in there is tha~ the guy who is in the pawn sho~ business has stolen prop2rty. In the' eyes of the. law it is presumed that it is stolen .. The rebuttable pre- sumption makes him come forward and show h~ did not- know. McVeigh thinks this is a good bill. -300- ----------------------- Page 473----------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------~----------~------~--~~l~712 T'\ __ ... ,. l. G.bc L..t Chance moved and asked that this bill be reported aut ~alone, Orsini, Chance, ~cVe~g~ a~d 3anfield all Glgned IfDo Passtr • Meeting adjourned at 3:32 p.m~ -- .. " --.---- ---_.,....... -----.. -,"._.-... __ .-.'~ .._-'. ----_. - ..• --.... -_._.- -. - ------'-" - .. --_ .. _ .. --- ..• -._ ....._.._--_._ .. ----_.." _._-----.__._--~---_._--_.__ ._-".._._-._--- .. ---_.. _-_.". ---- ....--...__ ._--_.... -301- ----------------------- Page 474----------------------- T-{()TT,~ E .IUDI C2::'::.?Y C0~'II!:~ITTEE MINUTES OF THE MEETING Monday, Acril 15) 1974 Chairman Tillion called the rji22t;ing to order at 10: 11 a.m. in Room 104 of the Assembly Apartments. Present were Tillion, Chance) Malone, Orsi~i, McVeigh, Banfield, arid Berry. SB 294 - Development city of Lost River. Emmit~ Wilson, Department of Commerce was here to testify on the dissolv- Development ing of the City of Lost River. He said he was a council- Cj_ty of Lost man for this city. He said it was the feeling of the Ri.ver ,council that we should dissolve the city because things didn't materialize as planned. The legislature enacted this to possibly allow a vehicle for the development of that area to utilize federal f~"1ding in assisting any' financing that was ne~essary. That has not happened.' Therefore> Mr. Wilsori, is in favor of this legislation which would dissolve the city. ' - , Tillion asked him to c6r~seqli2nces-- , if'we doni~ disjolv~ possibly eliminate any further development-by the Lost ILL vel' lYLlnl.ng Company. The coxpany may very well continue to try and develop the mine ~ithout the development of a city as 1-'Jell. If the mining company i's still willing to develop the area and if the city is any ,sort of hindrance ( to-them~ I think the most appropriate thing to do would be to dissolve the city~ McVeigh asked why it would be V a hindrance to them. They mayor may not choose to develop it. He said this bill was at their 'request. Mc- Veigh' said he was wond8ring first what their position is and why they feel that it should be dissolved. What are the changed circumstances? Wilson said that the vehicle is no longer there for the utilization of federal funds that were expected to be used by the passage of this legislation. The mining com.pany gives up--th'enthe state selection of land will prevail. Therefore, they arranged that the development company--Lost River Mil1 ing Company-~ -- co ul d -- me e t--wtth-'t he ", '10 C a l--re gi'onal-- 'p e-op I e---- iri- --re'ferenee t 0- -,,-- any land selection but it couldn!t come about because of the state's position. McVeigh asked who else was on the coun~il for Lost River. By~on-Mallott, Pete ?? from Nome, Asplund from Anchorage, and'Martin Olsen from Golovin. Ors~ni ~sked if this was detrimental to future mining. ~ilson said Yes, because th9 Dining company will have to mak~--deal with the native cor]o~ations. -OrSini s~id he f21t- thf1.~~ the st~ate should 62-:::: ::his"land. Then the mining company could deal VIi th th,2 '::: t~2.te. Hilson said this was a blocking out of a part of the land and when it didntt materialize there was no reason why the n~tive corpora~ tions could not have the la~d. -302- ----------------------- Page 475----------------------- Lt/15 Orsini asked if this was land that had been 2pDlied .t~ C) j'"' ~) ~Y' t ~ ~ 2 ~) ~ ':~L ~~: I~ :L r1 :~ ~~l'~' -L·~~ ~~ ·:J..n ~l s ~: ~_ <:: ./"~ .~~: 'i-. () ~~~) ~ ~.! 5_ ~ ~~ () (l . ~~ 2. i d 11 '3 c1. ~L (~l n r i~ ~~ l'l C: ~'i clO 0 Li..Ie t ~·1;.2 t; ~ ?!~l '~ :~:. r ~ l' ,~~_·2 3 ::) :3.. r ;~ ,2 ::> Commissioner might be able to answer that. Mr. Fackler j~:lopE12nt said they did not ipply for it before. It then became I city land. Now, if you dissolve the cityy it would t C~Lt;y of Lost revert back to" fe-deral land and could" be subject to 8el- "i Rt ,-,Ter ection. Orsini asked what happens if the interest "in II' developing is not going to materialize and federal funds are not going to be used there. What if we dontt act on 1 this? Wilson said if we didntt pass this legislation I then he gathered the land f/Ii.11 still belong to the city i and therefore could conceivably provide an obstruction ! to the development or block any arrangements to try to I- develop the mine itself. Tillion said that under the I la1;'1 any land the natives cannot select 1,.'1i thin t'\vo miles I, of the city--when the time ran out and selections would ~~~~: ~~:ec~~rsY~~n~O~~~ ~~::~!r:e!~iSw~~~o~h:~i~h~eS!:!el not aware of this. ! I - j Malone s~~d"that the state could refuse td dissolve Lost I "Ri ver--they didn't intend to do anything \~Ti th it.~ It f wouldnit let anyone using -it develop it e~~her. ~i~~ion t said it 1,IIould block native selecticn. Nalou"e said that he had called Mr. Pavittls office on this question. He I wasnTt able to come to the meeting tod~y. He said that as far as his viewpoint was concerned on the land selec- ( tion--the thing to do was to dissolve Lost River. Tillionasked how long the natives have to make their selections. Vil~age selections go to 1974 in Decenilier; Regional selections to 1975. He said if we didn't pass this then it would become state land. Mr. Degnan said that isn't realistic. Orsini noted that there was a practical problem but not a legal one. Tillion said if w~ donlt pass it this year, the naiives will lose the la.nd. ----------- ----_.. --.. - Banfield-- want e-d-- t--a" "k.t10~f- iirhy"-"the---stat e--Ciidli f -t- --se-re ct- -.. -_ .. """--...... -------.. -.. -.._-- ....------.. this land. Mr. Fackler said there is only a small strip of land and Resources didn't think that it was worth too much. The minerals are nor'th of there and that is all patented -land. Mr. Degnan said that there were three communities that had an interest in this land. Two of them were: Wales and Little Diomede. There is not enough available land in their communities to make thei"r selections. They also use these lands all the time. -This is an opportunity for these smaller communities to partlci- I pat~) in coop:::ration '.'lith t~le Dining COmp3.?"1y -to Dc.lee -S0!'i12- I thing of tYl_ls area. i f t- -303-- ----------------------- Page 476----------------------- Page .) By not passing this,' you deprive'them of land selection ~ i_r:, .-),~:; :' "~~ i i .::; ~:: .~:~. ~~ .~ '~./:~ {=~ .l (!~ ~.;~ .:'~.j :::. :~; t: t l ~; r~ ~ ~.~:. ;.~i.. (; t . ~:L" 0 :.·t ~'I .~) i.-,~ ~L.tJ. .,J ~~ j ;' creating a bad reputation for ~h~ government,. \ The Council and the state have both advocated dissolving -l- 1--" /-l C',;./- y 0 f' T,n r::< +. Jr', 'i '-[0 Yl 'f1'; ~ ;-->0.;:.r-l on:::J 1 ... OV'D r\-('>a+- i on i "! Tn' (.~-f-: v.J.r..:.; ..Lv ~ ~.J0V .- '- .... _1_,- ~~o~- --- \,;. l..J.Uk v ___ 1, v _~ area has been trying to get the corporation going so the ·people in that area can go to work. The reason this was passed in the first place~-it was the idea of assisting a private company in developing interests that would be of benefit to the state. This area involves three town- ships. Mr. Fackler said that it ~'Jas from 23':"'25:J 000 acres. , . McVeigh said that the state didntt think the land was worth much or that it had much of a pot,ential for minerals . , 'Then why was the develo~ment company so interested in this? Fackler said they wanted to put in a port there.. It would 'be a shipping location. Wilson said it is necessary for some sort of arr~n~ement-­ witS the state or local or regional co~porations~-dustbel w~da so tho land th~~ is D~~cn~pd inlq~d--~o ~a~ to it '1 y~u'-- must ~~oss - th~t ~i2~;d ..J. ~-Th~~; a;;";~~~,me~ts °;111 h~ve f to be made for 'anyone who uses thes~ lands. It makes no difference if it a camptown, or whatever; Tillion said that this bill has a further referral t6 Finance. Chance moved and asked unanimous consent that (,' . SB 2 9L~ be signe d 0 u t wi t h a' If D0 Pas s II re com.ll1e n d at ion .. Banfield and Orsini objected. Tillion felt that the best thing to do would be to pass this bill out Ilwithout recommendation Tf • . Kevin Waring, a witness, said that Malott is a member of the council. He agrees with the bill. Development City of Lost River cannot be carried out. It was his feeling that the committee take positive action on this bill. Orsini asked about the port facility_ This is an area of ~t.he -state \Alhere locations for~" ports.·-~·ar.e s~car·ce-~-· .It·-·-'"-'-·~-······-···· i~ about 70 miles west of Nome. Wilson said it is unlikely that there would be funds available for the company--they have ~ time schedule to meet. Their intentions are per- haps without any federal funds to go ahead and develop the mine. Orsini asked if the federal government had lost int~rest in this type of thing. He was told it was cut out of the budget this year. Malone said he could observe about federal funds-~He said he wished the federal govern- ment would ~hange their minds ~nd vie~points on freezing federal mo~ies. Tillicn s2id t~~tCongress'has changed its minel on this point. I~:::~'r~J_s ~::1e of theiJ.'" dreams), but· it didn't 7dork. Theybutlt t;tFO others SOI'lle:'rnere else and it didn't work out. Chance said that Kitimat in Canada worked out fine. Tillion said ~hat was because that area had power and minerals. Orsini asked how much money we' were talking about. Mr. Waring, from Community and Regiona- Affairs, s~id that it was in the neighborhood of $40 milliot ----------------------- Page 477----------------------- Page 4 SB 29L~ was signed out with individual recommendat ion. HB 830 - Operation' of private non-profit salmon hatcheries. Mr. Phil Daniels was here to testify in favor of this HB 83 legislation. He said that fisheries organizations or hatcheries sports fish groups have an .interest in this type of thing. He also had a letter from Sheldon Jackson College in Sitka which stated they wanted to set up a hatchery. They wanted a graVel incubator system. They desired this .to be a part of their curriculum. They said they need this legislation before they can set it up. This will accelerate ~~sh.production in, the s~~te:. He said they al~o feel ~hat I. l~ mlght be a salu~ary Sl~ua~lon to have someone else In . I this besides Fish and Game. They could go to the departmentl here and to Washirigton state for more information. Mr. Daniels said that he had gone to Japan and' looked at their system.' He said this was located on the Island of Hakaido. They did this where they had pollution problems and a gre~t population of people: 'They came out ~itha.24:1. r=.~tioli in the cost benefit. . j\ ff-v> n'''''Yll' .~ ..... ~ :f~-J-'I=. .L..1... '_i",_~LI.-.. t_'''!is ,..'.T0~21d '.'.'0_". u-. 'f-ro rl-; rlY"l r ~ T-,..,-i "Y\1, . t. ~l~is-~~~~j~_st-~"m~~t~r-~f-th~"'UF_ll~ ~pinio~:. ~H;~~s~id-~th~re J was a pink salmon workshop and biologists from allover I the northwest were there. Also, the technical knowledge is at hand. The bill seems to be well written .. It covers site selection, control of diseases, etc. The control of the eggs are left with the Department of Fish and Game. He said the UFA was very interested in this section. They have propoied some amendments. Mr. Daniels ~lso said that Alaskans will harvest 70% of these fish. This will be by sports fishermen and others. Funds left over from the proceeds or the sale of any of these salmon by the hatcheries would go to more fish hatcheries. He talked a little about th~ City of Ana~ cortes, in Washington State, when they wanted to put .,......----..... -.-.-in·a fi shhatche ry.- ....-- There-·Has.. ·· noopp as it i on'- here·,,·:--~for-that . matter,. ex~ept the commissioner didnTt think this was a good way to invest our money. He said we have four organizations who would be willing to st~rt raising money for that purpose. If they could raise $25~OOO-then~th~y could at 'least get a start. Tillion said that he ha6 visited one 6r th~ hatcheries:in.·. Japan. He said it was ratber embarassing because they told him they had received help in setting this up from the University of Washinz~on. We h~ve been exporting our tech~·L;.:;_O:;Y and not:: 1_~3_~~':::: it ourselves. Banfield said that she had been in faver of this concept since 1963~ Orsini said h~ was in. favor of the concept in general but he had a question. -305- ----------------------- Page 478----------------------- page ~ He stated that the concept is that t.:hei:1. g!) i:tl tll.::; str)e·3~rtl. Pnil 22.. i0. t11e:c;2 '/f2r2 ·se~/t:;l;").Ctl ways of doing this. Tillion said that a salmon won't J,. I ...'_..L, 0 :.\r(..~'.... ""0 po 'Lo -'- grow to any size unless they go out to sea. Th~re are ! :3 a __."_Lc)~l . ' a v' e I'" '7:l -, ~," a \ -::::: 0 f' D r 0 Q" 1 1 C l" Y"l ()O 7'1 s 'h +- t 0)1 0' h r.1 h ,:":\ -p l' ,,>: e r (:" c. 'Y! ' S t..... Q....L...' '.J JJ.....I ....... .L. i..A. .11.O"':"'~ --) v - V-O"" .. 1 J.. .... '- _ 01.&. ..,.1. __ 11, hatcher.ies right now, are a little bit Bmbittered by the bureaucracy_ They are willing ,to tax themselves so they can do this. ' The department gets to look at the brood stock. If you have a bunch of fishermen to give up the money and they 'stand to gain from the fish cOQing back through> we should support this activity. Orsini asked if this would be a private organization presumably made, up of fishermen.' Are they still under state regulation? Mr. Daniels showed some pictures of g~avel incubator," 'hatcheries to the committee In9mbers. He said that of the adult salmon that return about 50% are taken by commercial fishermen; 30~50% of the return get back to the stream. ThiE is often far in excess thc~ if you strip the eggs. I I Orsini asked why we bother with the fishermen--whi not use 'I' fish traps? Phil said that it is true" that the fish trap is efficient, but what we are promoting is a conventional' i style fishery. Orsini said he was not talking about being competitive with the fisher~en.He was talking about put- ting the ,fish in a stream that doesn f t have fish now., We will raise a bunch of fish and we will sell the ones that come back to that stream. Phil said there was no 'profit from the fish. All of this money has to go back into fish hatcheries and fisheries research. It takes away all economic interest. Malone said that was the idea for fish hatcheries. One of the problems--the fish are going to have to come back to a COI"r';.1110n stock fishery. \\fhile they are there--consitutionally> they belong to the people of Alaska and not the owner of the hatchery. TillioD said the fishermen are happy either way. This is a good first step .. All of the hatcheries running in past years haven't 'worked out too well. It is only recently that there has been a break-through. He said he would like to see something like this become law~., He di~ntt think that anybody was goin~ to make' money at it for the next feVl years.. Tillio"n said the ones 'in 'J~pan,'have been given up by the government and turned over tb the fishermen who are running them nbw. Tillion asked if i,lJe could pas,s this out as a CS.. Phil suggest'ed ,Qn page 2, line 21, after the ~dord "hatcheryTr add tTmust be from the Department or fro~ 2 so~rce approved by,the depart~ menc. l! T£-l2.t is to make Cl?2_~ t~8.t the de{)ar'~;:;'.'':;Dt 11aSCO::l-- I +- -v'Oi' , , .,. ,.i,' v~ -L o-'~r\~l~ -C~12 eggs. . . 1 Line 26, after the word "fe''! II add II sold to a permi t holder I by the, state or by another party approved by the department or othervJlse transferred t'J another person. It This is to prevent more than one tra~sf'2r of eggs taking place. ----------------------- Page 479----------------------- 4/15 FCi.ge 6 Malone said thnt som~tim2s Wh2~ ~hi~gs ~re sold they a~e it ~L3 only tc::: rn9 o Y'3..:cy. (Beil'ne' 2..r'rived at 2.0:50 2.. :::.) (~r'~:7~ , He wondered if we shouldn't put in there something saying that unless approved by the department--maybe a better \:~M)rofit thing to do would be if the original holder of the eggs salmon couldnTt use them to... Tillion objected because the hatcherles only thing that the department had any say over was the diseases. The less meddling and the less permission this business has to get, the better he would like it. Malone agreed with that. He was thinking along lines. that you get into legal interpretations on this sometimes. It probably could be covered in the regulations without'bein~ in the statutes. Phil continued with his reco~aended changes. Line 8~ of page 3> after IThatcherytf insert ffmaylf. Line 10> same page, after lTi.nspectionlf insert Hand approvalH.Page 4, line 19, after "sourcer! add !rand number". Line 28, betvIeen trcostH I and "or" insert "included d2bt retirement". . i Orsini a3ked abouc line 19. Hc~'/ do you de [ermine the amoun."~l· of salmon eggs? Tillion said this is done by weight. Page 5, line 1, after tractiv! ties n it ~Nould read ltfish sold at prices commens~rate with the current market valuelT. This is to keep from someone dropping fish on· the market. What we are trying to guard against is that if you leave the fish too long and for them to ripen too long--then you would ruin the fish market if these fish were sold. Tillio said that in Japan they sell these fish by grades and they don't export it. It still has a certain amount of protein in it. Banfield asked if this could be used for animal food. Tillion said there was no objection to that. It also makes very good fertilizer. Malone asked if we couldn't use some different langauge rather than saying fish sold at hatcheries. Tillion said that Randy would put the proper drafting style.to this bill when he made the CS. Randy asked about the amendment on Page 3, line 8. He wanted to have Mr. Daniels explain how that amendment is ~ntended to change the m~a~ing of that paragraph .. You took out "may" and left Hand approval". He gave him the explanation of this portion. Orsini aSked about page 5, line"·l,· and TillioD said that Randy will put that in better English. Orsini asked if this was for human consumption. Tillion~said there are no regulations for non-human consumption. Mr. Daniels said th2.t the hat.ch- eries in WaShington state hav~ sold these f~sh. Orsini r .Q3I... ed ~'rhat h"~:n. p"pn_(";:. -i T "i-hp -f-i ~"'T:':;:'+- h~rl . "'D~Y">'~ ~l r~ S.<:)'i ~'j -.... -.- --..~ ~- >-.J -,_ v ___ __ -..I!'.:. ::.:,.-.;\..... l" l.;~-~~ 0_.:..;.-!-\""O-L.~ CJ__ \.....(.. they could be used for fe~tilizer. Tillion 'said this "'V'[ouldn I t be apt to happen exc'2pt in bumper years ... Banfield moved that the amendments be worked into a CS by Randy and that the committee report be Signed out rrDo l Pass !. TillloD, Banfield, Beirne, McVeigh, Chance, .Orsini, and Malone. ~igned liDo Pass '! - 307 - . ----------------------- Page 480----------------------- I Beirne requested consideration of HB 646 - Children found ["0 r' Co ~~/'c ~"j~~" ~t~~G~i2'l:~ ~~~~~~~ ~:~; C)~,,~j' J~;~s~~~2~y)~o~~~L~~ions .r :l t: Beirne said we need this for the whole HESS Department. I Ch,l Idren subj . You would probably need the department to testify on this. I .!... '.~:"1D"-"Y'-i ('Y' l,., ~,'..... _ -._ ..J_ Banfield you would have to say they would be within the Co _t Department of Law. Beirne said she had no great dedication to this. Chance thought that it was a good idea .. They Legal Advisor have been having their problems because of this~ She said {CR3 for Corrections that since Art Peterson went to work in the AG's office he has spent full time working on the problems. Dr. Beirne said that HB 646 was at the request of th~ Gov- ernor. Banfield said the reason was that the courts have ~B 64 been dOing this~ Malone said he didnft know how the rest of the committee members felt about this, but he was all for it. Chance said it was a real good bill. It clears up some ambiguities. that a couple of the judges have been working under. Tillion felt this was in effect overriding the court.·Chance said that ~hen welo0ered the age of majority ~e_inserted the language starting oh line 14 ~nd we changed the age to 19, except that the department could peti tioD the court--on lines 14-16. That- is \'That a couple "of judges have been using and they prescribe the direct placement of such children.· H~SS wants to get this authority back to the department who ordinarily makes the placements. Tillion asked if when the court sentences a juvenile to a detentibn home, does the depa~tment say which one? Chance sairt that was right. That was until we inserted this language that 6reated the confusion about which noun that referred to~ There was no question about the fact that" the court made .the juvenile a ward of the state. Then it was up to the department to place the child. Tillion read the letter attached to the bill. He said he also had a letter from the court saying they they didnTt have any objection to this bill. McVeigh moved HB 6Ll6 be reported out of committee with a rlDo Pass"- recommendation. Tillion, Banfield, Beirne, :McVeigh and Malone .. ~igned~~'p_o_.Pa~s"~T_~ _. _q~3irli .. signed __ :_fNo ..r.~<:!~ .•..__ "."_______ .__ ._ .. HB 774 - Physical therapy. Tillionsaid that this bill has Physical a typographical error on page 5. Banfield thinks we should HB 774 ·Therapy· make an amendment to cover this. Beirne moved 'and asked unanimous consent that HB 774 Nith amendment be moved out with a !TDo Pass n recommendation. Beirne will carry this on the Floor. Orsini), having been involved in physical ritness wondered if this" regulated ordinary gyms. Beirne said this falls under" the medical board act. It really .\ ~~s.~oth~ng.to d?with an?~~~ excep~ p~ople.~ho a~e~working I lD tne pnyslcal ~~erapy C~~~lCS. ?nysl~al [nerapls~s 2re I SO~Tl_ethiDg 1ike a· 1 1.C'.2DS?d ":)ract~i_c2.1 nurse in cOfGoariso:::. I to a ~egistered nurse. It ~oesn'·t effect Addysf ~r any-. thing. Orsini asked about the definition section~ He said it was a definition that fed upon itself--it s~ys a physical therapist is one th2.t conducts therapeutic exercises. Beirne said that a registered phYSical ther- apist cannot practice without a doctor's referral. -308- ----------------------- Page 481----------------------- ! . ... , ' Iit/~ .... - ILr .l.:J i HB 774 was signed out; Tillion, Banfield, B~ir~e) Malone, I Cr'::J,:Li1l, ,:::.::ld f.'fc.'Tets£.l :::ig~e;j_ riDo P3.SS 7,'Tith 2.2T12n.d:~1eD;.~ n.; i'~13 T7'.Li I Ci""l.~tn \~ f: s'~L gne c1 rr ?'J 0 l-'f:: (~ ?r • j llf" f .. :V ~ _ SB 249 - Interference with commercial fishing gear. ,_ ::.l~ ::-: r) I t2: l~C :l.C e / 'Tillio!1 said that some of the seismic boats have cut ISB Coram. Fi::;hing through fishing gear and now are suing the fishermen Gear for having gear in the water. There is no law that says it is a misdemeanor for them to plow through gear. This is particularly true since this is state waters. Banrield moved for a rrDo Pass II recol1Ll1endation on SB 21~9. Orsini asked what you did i~ out of state waters. Does the fisherman say he has his crabpots there? Tillion said that a buoy requires that someone else turn from their course and go around your gear. Banfield said that wha't was going on was vlillfull and \1i th reckless disregard. The bill was signed out today. Tillion~ Banfie ld, Beirne", NcVeigh, Chanc.e and Malone signed "Do Pass; Orsini sighed' "No rec If • SB 455 - Municipal property taxation. This is for the 'r· a V")~ on ~ r1'10;~ 0 '0" C! ~ n.:::. c· 'C:- -0" - 'V>Y1:::: 0; 1 L i, -,,' .(... '1e S'~ C ()_r... t:;l _Tnt'_,'-" ~,0 -:...,' h_,_' ()-.~ i'! ......... .1..;:' ... 1,.. ,;\J ..!.. .:.::; '- l....t oJ -L 1. \_" ~J \..) . Lt.L ;, 1 u ~(,. 1...- ~ .l ..L L-. [ __..... '- __ iJ.L 1 oJ' ..._ oroperty tax. the year. pnder.present law the borough may assess the inventory tax for the entire year. McVeigh said he didn't under~tand this. If this is an inventory tax, what are you going to tax them on? Tillion said your assessment if as of Janua~y 1 of each year. . If a businessman loses his inventory in FebruarY,he pays for the whole year. Banfield said that we did this for the homeowner a couple of years ago. Banfield moved for the passage of SB 455. Malone said he waa having trouble 'wi th some of the language. He said this might not be a permanent cessation of business. It might only be an interruption of the business and the inventory. I He suggested we revise the bill to leave out the first clause. Malone said we could provide for reassessment, , referring to·the example he had given. It would be cleaner to say permanent cessation--some borough might say that it had to be a permanent shutdown or the business. In the ------ --cas'e-'Of fire;----this is---not.-true·.-----Affei~- ..cteaning.. lip ;--tiie-y--" - -....--.----,------- usually go b~ckinto business. Tillion said in that case he felt you were going to find that the borough assembly will be urider pressure not to use the January I date. If you do this, the' one with the big inventory in July will say' you are against him. Tillion said he was willing to have "permanent H' stricken from the bill. McVeigh said if we left it out then the person could go back into business. Orsini asked if what we were trying to proviie ~as some relief if there \li ass0 lTI~:: (: 2~ t ~_:. :; t r 0 p [lJ' 0 .:=! C II ~ r ~L Il 2; c1 ti r i :1g the y;;.?- ar . I{'8 s aid there was a significant difference in the taxable inven- tory and ~hjt you are trying to provide for the person is to be taxed at a lower rat-:::.· He may not even cease his business. He just suffered a financial loss for a period of time. ~309- ----------------------- Page 482----------------------- j ';/ --~ Page 9 M~lone ~ead from the present statutes in 29.53.060(b)~ I IE r:; r:>:2 a ':1 t~ :'1 J~ t: t 2~~ 2- .(:~ ·3 S -2: S 3 I~~,~ ~~: t (~ (;~ {!. b '2 ~~~ .~]# d .~ C)":1 t. :1;:; -;r~ .~) l~ J: ~ll ~f inv2ntory. Tillion s~id t~2t t~e borough clai2s ~hat under their system they can work. out an average on a January 1 figure. In the event of a disaster or cessa- tion caused by disaster thet have no method of forgiving that tax. Berry said they had to make the assessment early in the year~ Once it is made the 0ay things stand n6w they are locked into that. This is Whether the build- ingburns down or the person determines to go out of busi- ness. Malone said this bill proVides for reassessment. Tillion said we will prepare the amendment removing the 'word Tlpermanentlt. The committee acted on Banfieldts motion and signed the bill out \;'7i th the amendment. Tillion Malonc.) f/IcVeigh, and Banfield signed lIDo Pass ll ; Orsini and,Beirne signed UNo rec tr • SCR I - Insertion of valves and special fittings in pipe- SCR 1 .L.. f lines. This has some. amendments by the special energy I.nserl,lon 0 . va'v0C"' ~nd committee. Tillion asked the committee if they· .. wanted ~_L '__ 0 c.... __ 1. .1- ::-.".::::. -f-" L' "-'rr..::..:)"' .,Yn~'''' ~ y>. -,-.... QQ ....:; , -I ~n' n""/)'::l-~r:'" T ;-~' though~if they could still . operate inside the city. They would like to get this corrected. Malone moved to introduce the bill with ·a committee· report and asked unanimous consent for a flDo Pass II recommendation. Tillion, Banfield:> Chance ,. Orsini:> r1alone, and r1cVeighsigned HDo Pass It • . -311- ----------------------- Page 484----------------------- ______~----------~----------------~----~------~~----------------11~4/1b P~~rr·c.> ') - ..... ,-' '- ~ I' SB 170 - Providing for recall of members of adviso~y ~; I~-;}~ () .:) J.~ t; ()~t ?:),'~1. L) • ~;~~j~ l. ()~~(; Tr~:::! -:;- .=; ·:i. t31·r'lCl· .::...3 ~~{~l 1)_rJ.(l~ i ill() Ll~) ~~~) (:3 f:'\·~ t . to l'cl):)rt our; 58 lIO TJith a. nDo 23.SS " .!.'ec·:)~"m2nd2.~i,Jn~ This bill was signed out with Tillion, Malone, Orsini~ :E' ':1,.11 of Chance, McVeigh and Banfield all signing tlDo Pass". sV)ol bcls. Orsini asked wh~t this bill did. Tilliori said that it balls for the re~all of the advisory school board mem- bers. (McVeigh and Banfield left at 4:10 p.m.) CSHB 411 - Establishing a fifth district of ~hesuDerior Fifth Jud~ court. Tillion said the courts were agreeable to this HB 1+1. Distr1ct now. Banfield asked 'why they had made ~n about face. i Malone said it was because they had gotten the study on redistrictipg. Jamie Love will check to see where I the information on this bill has gone. Mr. Pratt is here on CSHB 789 - Repealing .the incorporation _ Repealing by reference of general insurer reqUirements as found iri HB 78~ incorp. by chapter 9 of Ti~le 21 in the provisions regtilating hospi- reference of tal and medical service coroorations inch. 87 of Title 21.1 Mr. Pratt said that he repr~sented the Alaska Dental SOciet~ of Alaska. This is a medic~l service assoc~atlon. It was I organized to supply prepaid dental plans-_ The cha.pter I that it purpo~ts to amend is the part on hospital medical I ~ertvhicecorporaftiOnths: That,cha~ter-I-t-Whal·'lt it dO~tC~: That I'. 1S e reason or 1S amenQm2n~.a ows se ~lng up regulations~ capital and surplus funds for these corpor- ( ations--he read from the statutes on this subject. Lv As you go back into another subsection it requires six' months operating capital or $100,000 just to get started, whichever is g~eater. Then you go to the reseive portion and there you have reserve requirements. (1) You maintain a reserve not less than all your legal obligations of the corporation other than claims. That is a horrendous ·reser~e. This is equal to all claims incurred under subscribers' ,~, contracts. (2) Maintain a reserve equal to 50% of all claims charged and received by the corporation. (3) It doesnTt say in addition'to surplus fund but _that_i~.~he --way-~t--has-be~ri-irit~r~r~t~d.- The~e reserves must be maintained and' it doesn t t say either but sets up four different categories of reserves. That includes. every- thing. No other insurance company has to maintain that kind of. reserve. It goes ln~o premium reserve--that is' all right. These are all regulated by the Commissioner o·f·.. Insurance. you have to a fund equal ! I One of those items that also apply to service corporations ~ is under AS.21.09. That is the ~ne that sets up financial requirements on the regulation of insurance companies. -312- ----------------------- Page 485----------------------- I I Thr::)re i~l a sec"tion tho.·f-; 32~~S:- ~O·,1;9~!·?If J trlc!.. t t: .~f h~-1~·\lr.~ '~~;~'j ! : ha~e 2 ~2JJ,OOJ d2902i~ fer tjs p~otec~ion of th~ public. I ~~3 7(3 He dc)esn t t have to have t;-l2.~ in. this sto..t~~ and.I'Fe accept I I ~~~:alinfZ that and we don't have any quarrel with that. When Dr. ~f... ._J ~LV,rp. by Brown started his service corporation and others began -::'-' C .L e j"' (; n C i:? 0 .f makin~ theirs--somebody in the insurance department said general insure it looks as if the $200~OOO requirement has to apply. We wrote back to them and told them we didn't think that it, did. It seems unreasonable that the financial requirements be {. greater on a local service corporation than on a for~ign ~ insurance corporation. They wrote and got tbe AGts 'opinion He agreed with the insurance commissioner. That is why we have this legislation. He gave the reason for the , delay in introducing the bill. He said he advised his \. clients that they should make every effort to make the AGts office review the ooinion. He said he really couldn't believe this. They did review it and felt this was a matte~ Y> 1 ~ o· i S 12' i \ d:-:. t p "YlY)1 • n ~ L."; ,;) ..." ri n .L. ~--. "Y) L. h a i Y> ..p p 1 ,.... t f 0..1.. .--'--6- .... "C_le ,--".J~.L.,lcl __ ,---,-,_:) ... _ o..Du. __ 01., .LOL In .. '--_,- O..1.. __ \.,;e. t With the $200,000 require~ent over and above all the other ., reserve requirements--i t Bakes it vi Y't1)8_11~! irn.possible for I someone like that tb do business in Alaska. You cantt deposit $200,000 and then have a reserve amount that covers all your legal obligations,-50% of your premiums} the.n an amount for known and unknown claims and still do business. Mr. Pratt said that their contention is that in 1966 the legislation made those requirement to be applicable to hospital service corporations but did not intend the adding of the $200,000 cash deposit on top of all that. McVeigh said that Al Courtney had talked to him about this last summer. Mr. Pratt said that he was working for Dr. Brown at that time. McVeigh felt they could get a judgement if' you really read the statute. He thinks it is clearly understood that the financial requirements ._. _______ .___ .stand by themselves . _____ T.i tle- '21.-09·- also---applies ...c---He-----fel t·----·---·-- they had overlooked the wording to the extent that applies to the intent of this chapter. Malone wanted to check the statutes. McVeigh asked if. there were any federal regu~ lations on this. Mr. Pratt said No. He said' he had no objection to the rest of' the statutes on this s~bject, he just didn f t think the $200 -' 000 requirement- should be applied. Orsini moved and asked unanimous consent for a "Do Pass" recommendation on HB 789. Malone asked for a w~itten explafiation for this bill, not longer than two pages. Mr. Pratt will prepare this for use When on the F'loor. teachers' SB 290 - Susp~nsion or revocation or tea6hers' cert~ficates. B 290 certif. Thi~ bill will beconside~ed at a late~ date. -313- ----------------------- Page 486----------------------- McVeigh asked if we could talk about the ~ppraisers' bill. ~l~il~Lj~;~){l ~ cll~:.~ ~!~J#~ r~~c2~L\'-2=-t .:.:_ l(:~t '~f T,\f:Lr("~~s O{l.. t:his bil:+ This 0as HE 372 - Licensi~g Dr real e~tate ADP~ai3ers. He saId (rril~ion)· th~t, ~e go~, a lette:: th2.t "Said one grouI? I_; was already 1n aSSOCla~lon w~~h a natlonal group of appralse~~ 'h h d l' . . L ,. • .L 1 .L.' • m' , ~ • I an d ~ ey a CD2lr sca~lo~ery prln~eG LD1S way. ~l~Llon t appraisers said that some of the fellows you would grandfather aren't l good appraisers but 50% of them are. They said they l;1{eren f.ju, opposed to a bill butthe~ wanted on.e.that WO.Uldmake sure I the people are fully qualified so they can be hired by .. insurance companies and have their appraising stand up in court. It is a little late in the session to introduce a bill like this. McVeigh felt that we should let this go until the next session so we could have some input . from both sides of the issue. Malone agreed because he felt this was a big issue. HB 736 - Alaska)s contribution to the national statuary Alaska's cont. hall collection in the United States Capitol. Malone·is HB 73 to national not in favor of this bill. He moved to table. Orsini . .st2.tu.2ry objected. He ·thought that good taste should dictate. I Lh~cp ~hl'n~s ~.l·~llion ~~~~ t~~~ ~h~ s~?~C p~y; S ~r)~ ~lnD· U ... _00._ V~._ :.l.o' -1- ______ ..:..1. i::)Cl....:-.~ V':"_C_'.J .J_....... ·..,.I:.....l.vc::: .......... ..L, 1. v ~ I statue. He said we have two coming: The n~xt time you I ·1 put one in there, that is the last one. l:)ani'ield moved and asked unanimous consent that we send· this to the~ Rules Committee .. Malone objected. Tillion called the-question. Tillion and Orsini . signed nDo Pass If • Malone and McVej_gh . signed No rec Tt •.. Banfield said she would sign "Do Pass 11 I ( but had to go to another meeting. L,! Meeting adjourned at 4:55 p.m. -314- ----------------------- Page 487----------------------- t ~/ 1.:; HOUSE ,JUDICIARY COI/JPIITTEE MINUTES OF THE MSETING I Chairman Tillion called the meeting to order at 9:13 a.m. in Room 104 of the As;::;,2.mbly Apartments. Present ;Here Banfield; TillioD, Orsini, Chance~ and Berry~ The first item for consideration was SB 476am - Revenue icipat10n anticipation notes issued by cities and boroughs. Mrs. oBanfield said thiso was something that the Anchorage coit les borough wants pretty badly. She said that Eric Wohlfarth boroughs was here but o was quite ill so didn1t get to see everyone about this bill. Tillion said the main problem is that °any notes obtained have to be paid within the fiscal year. 0 If they get one in February it willo have to be paid back before July 1. Berry explained the debt limit. Orsini felt that what we were repealing was the li~ita­ tion on debt. Berry read from the statutes in 29.53.030. Orsini said he was reluctantoabout the repealer unless I he could ohear some good testimony in favor of it~ he l. felt this shouldntt be taken out. Tillion said that it did not remove the debt limit as such, but you canotake a revenue anticipation note late in the year that will have to be paid in the next fiscal year. Chance said this allowed them to carry the indebtedness over into the nextofiscal year} it still has to be paid by the following year. Orsini telt that once you repeal the limit on the amount of anticipation notes that you can issue--it seems to him that some municipality can borrow right up to the hilt. ~anfield asked Berry to read the repealer. Ch~nce said she didn't see any problem if this were repealed. Banfield said that was what 010 was doingonow. Tillion said it allows a larger percentage. They still canTt borrow in excess of what they are going to. pay back in that year. Banfield said it is difficult °to antiCipate what the remaining revenues will be. Orsini said he obj ectedbecausethis removes the 50% 0 __000___ 0 ___ 00___ _ O ----.--.0--- .-OO-:-O-req U iretiie"iit-~~-~-ooO-B ari.-fi el d -.. os-oaid --ofhe-- :P r 6-tIem is_00 t 11 a i 0 °they'o canTt anticipate their revenues accurately for the remaining part of the year. Orsini said he doesn't object to have the debt carryover into the other year~ obut he objeqts to repealing this portion. Chance moved and asked unanimous consent that SB 476am o be reported out of committee. Orsini obj ected. He wanted to know if there was some way of working:that around the concept we are dealing with in Sec 010. i: 00 ; Tlllion thinks that this sectio~ covers it. Berry suggeste 1 othatyou could changeOthe language around to say that not O more th~n 50% of~- ... Banfield said you are running into 50% of theo °anticipated revenue and this is difficult to determine. Tillion didnTt think it made any difference as long as thei have to pay it back in the next fiscal year. -315- ----------------------- Page 488----------------------- 4/19 Orsini asked what would ha;:per: if they didn T t pay it baek. S:l~l.l~!.~Lo;~ sa.i(~ th,2Y' :';:~);_Lld l'.::~.:;-'::: t:J r'~lis2 t~12 t~azc-~3 .Jr3i:n.~!.. (::.;:)~,(ed :lOl"f ~/ou d1d. ti~~L.s - D-') yo:; 2.r~~3t the City Council? , , Chance 'said you could ri1~ suit. Berry said you would Al~,?1.pation have them come in for foreclosure. Action was taken nOl:~:;3 issued on Chance's motion and the ~ill w~s signed out. Tillion~ by cities Banfield!) Chance, and 1"la10ne signed trDo Pass t!; Orsini and boroughs did not sign the r~~ort. HB 841 - Limited entry perDita and interim use permits i Limited entry for commercial fishing. Tillion said there is a problem I IHB 8 tl par!Tli ts/tnterim that the limi.ted entry cOlT~ission is running into. They use permits need this legislation desperately this year. There is a problem with the six-months provision on transfer. I Banfield said she thought this would be difficult and , f voted against that provision at the time .. Tillion said they had to put that provision· in last year because the guy from Bristol Bay wouldntt have let it pass at all. There is 2.1so the fact that sose of the fisheries H2ren't ! . diitress~d~such as the sea urchin and'egg harveit. "' . I " t Banfield asked why this wasnft int~oduced by t~e Governor's t offi.ce. Tillion said it 1'i2S because the--Governor hated I to bring down a bill this late in the session. Orsini asked why we were striking the language in section 2. Banfield asked who wanted to' be able to transfer their /' permit. Tillion said Hank Reeves bought a boat and got i .\.., caught in the retroactive license provision .. There is , Ii V;lJ· an old fellow who has been fishing with him fbr years 1>vho is unable to get a permit. He felt the commission could cal] this a case of hardship. Tillion said that Jackman said he didn1t expect to use this section much. Chance asked how it was reported out of Resources Cormnittee. She felt this opened a loophole in the limited entry_ Chance moved that the bill HB 841 be reported ciut of . , ' committee. ?:illion signed "Do Pass H ; Banfield)' Orsini', ..?-n~ _",.90a.n:(~~_,_ ~i gnec1.__ ~f No re c.~ n. __________ '"_'_____'"_...__ .._'". _~ .._.,_. ___ .. _________ .__ "'_' .. Banfield asked about HB 850 - Regulation of charitable Charitable organizations and the solicitation of contributions for. HB 8so Organizations charitable purposes. She didn't think it had a chance to be passed this year. Jamie Lov~ said this was' ~ copy of the WaShington act and it has been in effect there for one year. Discussion on this was discontinued. HB 591 ~ 'Closed huntihg areas adjacent to highways. The Closed hunting chairman·said that he had a letter from Frank Jones and .HS 591 , :1.. f- ~~ 2~ 3 ,I i1 i.. g 1-: ';' i ,~ty- :3 tlY~re are so!"ne amendments t~'!.2.t h2 3u.ggestecL Til1icD [ said you cadt shoot while yQ~ a~e standing on~the right- I of-way. With the changes In this legislation, he would recommend passing this bill. I I j i -316- ----------------------- Page 489----------------------- l 4/1:1 fage j ~sked what are~s t~is 122ves open. I i E3 1 cl~rtain areas open. Banfi-::ld s~i.d thi3 is for the htghly travelled roads that you donTt want guns shooting in the 1 area. Orsini agreed with that because. if we want to I develop tourism, they might ~·l2.nt to see the animals there. , Berry said that the definitions of interstate and primary and secondary are terms telling you what-roads are meant. I i' Orsini said he agrees with the original bill. If someone- i ~\Jant s to amend it on the Floor } thatv·rould·be all right .. Tillion suggested that he call in and find out what that does and draw up a Judicia~y 2mend~ent to be _presented I on the floor. Tillion will get the signatures later. (Tillion, OrSini, Banfield, Malone, Beirne signed Do Pass for a CS. Chance signed nNo recl!. 8B-526'- Relating to the imposition of criminal sentenc~s; Tmoos itj_on of ,.~: ~)~LrnincLl s en~ t . 'andhaving th~ effect of Gh2nging Rules 32(h) and 49~ RuleslSB 526 of Criminal Procedure and Hule 21(f) and (g» Hules of.: -t-' Appellate Procedure. - . Orsini m':)ved S3 526 ou.t with a nDo I n::)C'slf r>ecommond::=!-l-inn - 'J11'l',iOYi 1'ffaloYl~ ani::! OY>s-;nl· c::i.~Y1.l..ed 1 !:c...V'-·.L. ___ 1L'-._ ..... v_v_... ... . -,-.L '-.. U L '-J4-..,::,l.l_. "Do Pass"; Chance signed-;-;N~ ~ec;;. - - . - I . Meeting was recessed at 9:38 a.m. There was no further t opportunity to meet this day so this time will be con- sidered the time of adjournment. -~-.- .....- .. -----------.---...__ ....._ _.'''' ._.k···_-'_··____ ·_·._.____ w __ •••_.~ __......~._ ...... ___ • ______ •_____________ ••___ • __ ." • ___ •__ .~_. __ •• __ •••___ ........__ l-- i 1 -317- I I ----------------------- Page 490----------------------- 'Dj .J. .:> ~ :r~., ~, "-' I '~,r 'l'he In~)urance 'I'l:<1ue Practices and Frauds Act (Title 21, Chapter 3G) nse.\'la? fO~d to be inadequate. ;. 1""1", In ',the 27 years since the model for" qur current act :was develo'p~'~'~, many changes have taken place in the insurance' industry;. burin~! r:. , ,this' time various' states revised the, 1947 model in at'tempt.s ,to J1:,~~P abreast' of these changes.' The N.A~ I.e. r aware of the growil1:g di~.i ' parity bet'l;7een the, changing times and the 1947 modei act, _app6irt~~d ~' ',.,3J4BSubcortUnittee in 1970, fbrthe purpose of producing an -,'upaa'l~d ":",: unfair trade practices act. This ~vas done' and t11e: ne\"lmoc)"~l \tlas,' ~ adopted by the N.A.I .. C.as a model 'act during its'iivinter 1971 me:e"cing. Inci,dentally, the subcommi ttee which developedtheneT;v model.. \vas I,: . ' assisted by an industry advisory ,cor.'unitte~ Gornprised :of15 :m'?mb~r'$:, trom the insurance industry. Th~ point being t:hat indust,ry,:~~ha(l':: ',: substantial input, in thed"evelopmen'4o"f this bill.. j', ' . . ." \. " The proposed bill substantially trdcks', ,the N6A~ :t-~c~: '1.9:71 'moCl,=:l ct.ct., I"t makes a number' of outright a,dditions in content 'a~'well as';, ';1' , editorial cr_ "lnges. In order, to assist .you :in 'your unders,tah'::ing of the various sections of th~ bill, we' felt that a s~ctionby , section aLB "i_~"v"-sis ,-"ould be' useful. " - r ,-,(>,,-:; Section 1. '.Phis change is editori~~l. "', Presently,. ,qhapt:er l~ has 'sections numbered ,OlD through 310.' Only 010 Jchrough 150 .'~ve:l;c in-' eluded in t~,.~~ original model ,bill. 'This .proposedbill''''\'l.l:llplace ,those sectiollsnot'properly belonging' in an unfair \trade prac:'cices' abt in the proper chapters.' The section number ref\erence '''1.11 therefore n.~)t be needed., 'Section 2. This change represents a, consol,igq"tion and clar':'.f icatian of element,s pr~sently found in ,AS 21.36.030" an,d A$ i1.36.050. "rh6,',1 present AS: 1.,36."050 concer.·ns itself '=.vith nb~""i~,tingu\which is really a specialized form of misrepresentation, hence its i~clrision in' • this' proposed section. ' ' , The section is expanded to include illustrations, sales presentations .'" and"oIUInissions as methods of misrepresentation. ,Newly aq,t1ed specific misrepresentations include: " , (I) misrepresentation bfpolicycond'itions [subsection (:,1.)] (2) misrepresentation, for thepurpo3~ of effecting a ,pledge.' or ,assi~nment of or effecting a loan against any insurance poli9Y [subsection (8)]; and,' " ' " '" (3) misrepresentation of an insuran"c~ t?0licy. as being shares of ~tock [subsec,tion (3)]. ----------------------- Page 491----------------------- .2 t-t•..t5.17 8'\~ l q ,tt Secti0l"l 3. . Th.is section contains editorial ci1anges aimed at 0,):- panQin{] its' SCOp8 beyon.a. insurers only. It is tied to thede,fini'cion 0'£ .' u }?crson in t.he ;inS1..1l:c..1.nCe business u 1 on page 9 ana. 10.'_ rrhe 'p , propo~;c:d \:'Jording \,iould, extend to all persons subject ,to regulation by the di~ision presently~ Section 4. This section contains an edi,torial change similar to ,that in Section 3. The result is an expansion of those subject to regula'tion under the s'tatute .. sectIon 5. This sectiop is a departure from the model bill. 'During' the Seventh" Legislature a bill ~vas presented CHB 339 )tha't\vas ' :', intended to strike at the proble~ of selection discrimination. This sectioll approaches the problem a· hi t differently. The bill approached, the problem by barring, tVJO specific examples of selection discrim- . ination. This proposed approach ismo~e.direct. Presently discrim- ination'is covered in two sectio~s~. AS 21.36.090 and AS 21.36.l20(c). Thes~ would be consolidated in on~· section. .- . Section 6. This section is a co~solidation of present AS 21.36.100 and AS 2l.3.6.120{a). There are no substantive changes . . Section 7. This 'section isa consolidation of present AS 21.36.110. and AS 2~. 36. ,12·0 (d). There are PO subs'ta'ntiv.e changes. section 8. Th{s sectioi1 dea,ling ",,;i th unfair claim settlement practices is all new. It lists ,l~ claim settlementpractic~s which we propose be specifically indic~t8d as unfair •.This lis~ '~as i>i . . . ~J' developed through an analysis of'~~ compla.ints in a number of ~tates .. ~ The practices listed have all been declared unfair in one state or . , another by administrative interpretation or reg~iation. Pr~ctices of this nature, have in th~ past br~en difficult, to prosecute effec- ~~ively due to the ~bsence of a positive statutor~ staternen~ that a specific pr~ctice is prohibited,' Duririg fiscal year 73, th~ d~vision handled 439 net,'l consumer ';omplaints of \;,hich 69 j7,ivolved claim practices. This division w~s instrumental ;in the re~overy of ap?roxima-tely $366,714. during· tha.t same period, $238,8:'6. of l.vhich '-las due direc·tly to claims practice complaints. Pror this it can be seen that we are providing at least a limited serJi6e to the consumer. This se6tion would have the effect Lf increasing our capacity for complaint handling since less time \'lould be re- quired i;o establish that a violation of statute'exists. Due to our staff deficiencies, '(,vc assume that our complaint files re~resent only a small portion of the unfair practices existent in the insurance industry in Alaska. l~le also assume that there are a number of abuses that are never reported or receive any attention by anyone including the aggrieved party. We believe that the greatest percentage of complaints are received by or f~led with . the insurer responsible for the practice. \'lJe do not 'havethe advantage of receiving any material concerning complaints filed in this manner. The various insurance regulatory.agencies throughout the country \"() ! . ----------------------- Page 492----------------------- 3, . do make an c'xami:nation of each i.n!":.;urer at lqas l-. once very three years. The n(:!ul~lpr()po!;)cd 1\S 21~ 36.125 uould r~Cluir8 that ·c3.ch " person in the insuJ:ance business rna intain records of all complailrts "',-, received. The intent is ·to exaHine these files c::t the same time 'alY exa:ru.ination .is made. This ·cxa.r:1ination coupled \'li th complain't recbrdson file in the division would give a reasoriablyuccurate picture of an Ll~urer~~ practices as they a££ect theinsu~ance buying public. 'J.'hi.s\vill, ~lso ,he a measure' of the effectiveness of the division. He have an additional factor \'lorkingfor the . public with this section. No ~nsurer likes, to be cast in 'a bad ,light.. By requiring complaint files w'hich are subjec·t to examiner .,', , sC'rutiny I we feel it "lill inhibit' the conditions \'lhich cause the complaints. ' Section 9. This ~ection has been expanded to bar 'the offe~ of securities as an inducer{1.ent' to insurance ... Section 10. This section revamps the \ter .' .. , S~CtiOl1 17.- Present I-l.S 21.36.210-310 d~als\-vith B,he limitl.':ll.. cancel- .).ation of personal automobile and property covera.ges. This sta-tute has proved to be beneficial to the public and non-detrimental to the insurers. It shou'ld hOvlever have' been placed in the insurance ,con·t.ract chap·ter sinc~ that is what it directly affects. Section 17 rtl<>es this'. In 'the process one minor revisfon has' been made. It is one that 50m2 insurers already do voluntarily. The law permits the .insurer to rlon-renevl a policy with adequate notice (20 days) but "does n~t require a reason~ The revision would newly require a rea:~on for non·- renewal. .(page 15, Line o.1). We have' had' numerous inqui~ies about reasons for non-renewal. Section l~. These sections have all been mentioned iri previous sec':.:ions. I 'I) / ----------------------- Page 494----------------------- .j 5 ~ I • 1\8 21.36.050 hi:t.s been consolidated - .sec' s(~ction 2'. 1\8 21. 3G .• l.2(}··~hr.ts bCC;l consolic1a':l-~d - see sc:ctiqns' 5~'7. ..AS 21.36 .. 14.0-150 have b(~e11 r~placed by-items in st?ct:.i:on 12 . AS 21. 36. 170 has been lllovedto another chap ce-r:.';"" see sectio.n 13. .--,. AS 21.36.180 has been moved to another chapter - see section 16~ AS 21. 36 .19 Q has been moved to another chapter. - see section 15.; AS 21.36.210-310 have been moved to ano·ther chapter - S'eC section 17. Secflon 19. This section should be revised to,~July 1,1974. ",';., .. t •. ----------------------- Page 495----------------------- ," " l.! .JJ. ./J 1l J.l " fr, ,# " ~ 1f '# # rr # # if # rr rr IT # rt # ## .-1 # # " ',,-,' # # .... , # H- # HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE '# " ' , ", # ""# ", '# MINU:TES 1974 #" :, # '# # # .. ," # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # CHAIRMAN: REPRESENTATIVE CLEM TILLION MEf'lBERS: REPRESENTATIVE MILDRED BANFIELD," REPRESENTATIVE F..ELEN BEIRNE" REP-RESENTATIVE GENIE CHANCE~ REPRESENTATIVE HUGH lVIALONE, .':' . REPRESENTATIVE ~ICHARD MCVEIGH, AND REPRE- , SENTATIVE JOSEP¥. ORSINI. t ", , I I· -: r.' . ' · 'LEGAL COUNSEL: Mr~, .Rai19.olph,,':Berry ,',\ , , STAFF ASSISTANT: Merle :A. Masoh (Mrs.) SECRETARY: Sybil H. Davi q \ , '. .... .~ ....:... ,Eighth Alaska State Legislature Secopd Session Januari 21, 1974 April 26, 1974 ' ----------------------- Page 496----------------------- The House Judiciary Committee was called to order by Chairman Tillion at 2:10 p.m. in·the House Chambers on the 21st. of October. Members present were Tillion, Malone, Chance, McVeigh, Banfield, Beirne, and Orsini. The Chairman stated that the committee would be considering House Bill No. 7 ~ Common Purchasers of oil. MrG Will Condon will be the first to testify in favor of this bill. He will give the state's position on why we need this bill as written. Mr. Condon said that the common purchaser provisions in existing law that were part of the 1972 oil package are contained in the Right-of-Way Leasing Act, sections 120(4) and 120(5) of that Act. In exchange for crossing state lands one of the covenants that the lessee had to agree to was tD become a common purchaser of oil or gas and section 120 (4) indicates that common purchaser as defined by that section meant that any lessee would have to buy all oil for common purchase and another possible reading of this is that the "common purchaser" is the common purchaser meaning from the states that h~ve that. If you do buy you have to buy from all offerers in proportion· to what they are offering according to your needs. You have to buy say 50 from each offerer instead of 100 from one seller. It is possible that the way this should be read, because you are a pipeline, and each offerer offers 100 bbls., you have to take the 200 bbls and do what you want with it. If this is correct, then, we are dOing something different from what any state has attempted to do. This is a compulsory purchaser provision. In that case, our new proposed bil~ with respect to oil, is narrowing the scope of the bill. Quite clearly the common purchaser act does not require you to purchase if not already in the business of purchasing. The new proposed bill would require somebody who becomes a common purchaser because he was discriminating to have to buy on a prorata basis. Mr. Lipton said that by this we were narrowing the scope of the bill. Mr. Condon said he felt they were widening it because this applie~ to any purchaser in the state, and not just a pipe- line owner. The pipeline companies in Alaska don't happen to purch~se any oil. We are making it apply to a wider class of people with respect to crude o~l. If we were requiring them to become compulsory purchasers--no other state has ever done this. This poses a significant legal risk .. Take for instance, natural gas, this is not requiring them to be in- clud~d in this. I have been questioned abo :t this before, and the comment I would make is that I would go back and do some research of the law. The State of Kansas is an example. They are regulated by the FPC and in that case the ruling was that the state of. Kansas moved into an area preempted by Federal statute. You don't have the same thing in the oil area. It is set up in a different way. You don't have any legal pro-lems, in our judgment, requiring a purchaser of oil to become a common purchaser. The only other comment