SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE  April 6, 1995 3:35 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Bert Sharp, Chairman Senator Randy Phillips, Vice-Chairman Senator Loren Leman Senator Dave Donley MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Jim Duncan COMMITTEE CALENDAR CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 20(STA) Relating to unfunded federal mandates and the Conference of the States. PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION HJR 20 - No previous senate committee action. WITNESS REGISTER Wayne Maloney, Aide to Representative Barnes State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-3438 POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HJR 20 Ladd McBride P.O. Box 83567, Fairbanks, AK 99708¶479-8096 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Mary Linthicum 330 3rd Ave., #414, Fairbanks, AK 99701¶452-3764 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Kevin Thomas P.O.Box 90906, Anchorage, AK 99509¶345-7438 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 Bob Griffin P.O. Box 770889, Eagle River, AK 99577¶244-3416 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Joanne Swanner 240 Pettis, Anchorage, AK 99515¶344-5151 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 20 Dr. Robert Pontius P.O. Box 872120, Wasilla, AK 99687¶376-2599 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Shayne Holmes 801 Gail Drive, Wasilla, AK 99654¶378-1089 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Jane Weger (?) NRA grass roots coordinator for Alaska Address & Telephone number unknown POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Charles Dickson P.O. Box 2018, Soldotna, AK 99669¶262-6020 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 Leon Quesnell 516 Hemlock Ave., Kenai, AK 99611¶283-4152 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Susan Ross P.O. Box 198, Kasilof, AK 99610¶262-5479 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 Mark Ames P.O. Box 368, Barrow, AK 99723¶852-5527 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Julian-Paul Weir P.O. Box 275, Glennallen, AK 99588¶822-3902 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Ed Knoebel P.O. Box 84, Glennallen, AK 99588¶822-3208 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Maurice Stout P.O. Box 279, Tok, AK 99780 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 20 Patrick Dalton P.O. Box 1413, Delta Junction, AK 99737 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 David Bentley 41955 Spencer Dr., Homer, AK 99603¶235-7389 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 20 Bernard Goodno P.O. Box 92, Delta Junction, AK 99737¶895-4000 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Jim Roderick P.O. Box 916, Homer, AK 99603¶235-4070 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Jack Polster Homer, AK 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Kathleen Wedemeyer 7 Marietta, #7, Fairbanks, AK 99701¶456-6762 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Gregory Garrels 1176 Broadview Dr., Fairbanks, AK 99712¶457-3543 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Michael Wedemeyer 3095 Mack Blvd., Fairbanks, AK 99701¶479-8764 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 C.R. Lewis 1500 Post Road, Anchorage, AK 99501¶276-3624 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 Rocky Frank 1601 Wolverine, Anchorage, AK 99504¶333-8883 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 Robert Kottre 921 W. 56th Ave., Anchorage, AK 99518¶561-8736 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Carmie Gilbert P.O. Box 872414, Wasilla, AK 99687¶376-2599 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Dan Gifford P.O. Box 874803, Wasilla, AK 99687¶376-5606 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Anthony McNabb P.O. Box 872783, Wasilla, AK 99687¶376-4778 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Leonard Efta P.O. Box 353, Kenai, AK, 99611¶283-7670 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 28 Gary Superman P.O. Box 8425, Nikiski, AK 99635¶776-8448 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Seymour Mills P.O. Box 51, Sterling, AK 99672¶262-9289 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Keith Elkins 68170 Centurion Dr., Homer, AK 99603¶235-6053 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 John Glanville P.O. Box 1792, Homer, AK 99603¶235-7703 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Larry Slone 1204 Ocean Dr., #1, Homer, AK 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Kathleen Moore 4631 Kachemak Bay Dr., Homer, AK 99603¶235-7959 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 Art Griswold Alaska Independence Party 833 Runamuck Ave., Fairbanks, AK 99705¶488-7805 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Pat Cook 238 Well Street, Fairbanks, AK 99701¶452-3637 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 David Dohner P.O. Box 84361, Fairbanks, AK 99708¶479-5739 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Sandor Manyoky 3900 E. 112th, Anchorage, AK 99516¶344-4108 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 Susan Manyoky 3900 E. 112th, Anchorage, AK 99516¶344-4108 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Deanna Cresap 22135 Aurora Borealis, Anchorage, AK 99567¶688-1090 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 Barbara Swallow 2500 Whispering Woods Dr., Wasilla, AK 99654¶373-2303 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 Gretchen O'Barr 801 Lucas Road, Wasilla, AK 99654¶373-2569 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 20 Michael A. Nelson P.O. Box 870471, Wasilla, AK 99687¶376-3130 POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 20 Brad Turkington P.O. Box 2889, Soldotna, AK 99669¶776-5870 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Tom Scarborough 1676 Taroka Dr., Fairbanks, AK 99709¶479-3412 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Joy Cook 1853 Kendall, North Pole, AK 99705¶488-0488 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Carla Von Ron Ceilier P.O. Box 75288, Fairbanks, AK 99707¶452-8764 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Charles McKee P.O. Box 143452, Anchorage, AK 99514 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Samuel Haywood 2221 Muldoon Rd., #561, Anchorage, AK 99504¶333-6930 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Kenneth Smith 4705 E. 112th, Anchorage, AK 99516¶346-3374 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Dave Rutz 555 Agate Lane, Wasilla, AK 99654¶376-5763 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Donald Graber P.O. Box 874566, Wasilla, AK 99687¶376-6596 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Dr. John Thomas 300 W. Swanson, #109, Wasilla, AK 99654¶376-2600 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 David Crawford HC32 Box 6550, Wasilla, AK 99654¶376-2569 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Lillian Villwok P.O. Box 210027, Anchorage, AK 99521¶333-2217 POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 20 Barbara Fix P.O. Box 3681, Palmer, AK 99645¶746-5800 POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 20 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 95-15, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN SHARP calls the Senate State Affairs Committee to order at 3:35 p.m. and brings up HJR 20 as the first order of business before the committee. Chairman Sharp informed witnesses that testimony will be limited to 3 minutes, due to the number of people wishing to testify. Number 022 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks if there will be another opportunity for witnesses to testify. Number 030 CHAIRMAN SHARP recognizes that there may not be enough time for everyone to testify on HJR 20 during today's hearing. The chairman stated there will probably be another hearing on the resolution at a future date, possibly April 18, 1995. CHAIRMAN SHARP calls the sponsor's representative to give a statement. Number 073 WAYNE MALONEY, Aide to Representative Ramona Barnes, prime sponsor of HJR 20, reads a written statement which was submitted to the committee. [Mr. Maloney repeats his remarks, because the witness microphone was not working and listeners on teleconference were unable to hear him.] Number 190 MR. MALONEY states there is no chance a conference of the states could lead to a constitutional convention. Number 215 LADD MCBRIDE, testifying from Fairbanks, gives testimony in opposition to HJR 20. Number 237 MARY LINTHICUM, testifying from Fairbanks, gives testimony in opposition to HJR 20. Number 246 KEVIN THOMAS, testifying from Anchorage, gives testimony unfavorable to HJR 20. Number 266 BOB GRIFFIN, testifying from Anchorage, gives testimony in opposition to HJR 20. JOANNE SWANNER, testifying from Anchorage, states she opposes changing the constitution. Number 337 SENATOR LEMAN asks what language in HJR 20 specifies changing the U. S. Constitution. He wants to make sure we are all reading off the same resolution. MR. MALONEY responds that the resolution does not propose any constitutional changes. It authorizes the State of Alaska to send a delegation to a conference of the states. SENATOR LEMAN asks Ms. Swanner what part of the resolution she thinks would allow changes to the constitution. MS. SWANNER replies she has not read anything in the resolution that makes her think the constitution could be changed at a conference of the states. SENATOR LEMAN asks Ms. Swanner to clarify whether she stated in her original testimony that the resolution proposes amending the U.S. Constitution. MS. SWANNER confirmed she did testify that HJR 20 would allow amendments to the constitution. It is something that she heard. SENATOR LEMAN is concerned that people are interpreting that HJR 20 would allow a constitutional convention. He states the committee has some legal opinions regarding that. He wants to make clear that the resolution itself does not state that it is the intent of the conference of the states to propose changes to the constitution. Number 340 MR. MALONEY draws committee members' attention to a flow chart in members' packets, which is a lengthy description of what is expected from this conference of the states. Mr. Maloney stresses that nothing that the conference of the states does could possibly be viewed as circumventing the constitutional amendment process in any way, shape, or form. ROBERT PONTIUS, testifying from Wasilla, states he has heard that a conference of the states could develop into a constitutional convention. He urges the senate to kill HJR 20. Number 385 SHAYNE HOLMES, testifying from Wasilla, states he strongly opposes HJR 20. SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asked Mr. Holmes if he has seen the resolution. MR. HOLMES replies he has. Number 418 JANE WEGER, NRA grass roots coordinator for Alaska, states the NRA opposes HJR 20. Ms. Weger states the NRA also opposes a constitutional convention. SENATOR LEMAN agrees with Ms. Weger that a total rewrite of both the state and the federal constitutions is not necessary. Number 439 CHARLES DICKSON, testifying from Soldotna, states HJR 20 is unnecessary. Number 458 LEON QUESNELL, Testifying from Soldotna, states he opposes HJR 20, because he thinks it could degenerate into a constitutional convention. Number 463 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks for clarification on what would happen if there was a possibility that a conference of the states could change into a constitutional convention. Even if changes were proposed to the constitution, wouldn't 38 states still have to ratify those changes? Number 469 MR. MALONEY replies, with all due respect to the testimony the committee has received so far, that governors from all fifty states participate in the conference. In addition, there would be 200 state legislators participating: two democrats and two republicans from each state. This would be a very responsible group of individuals. SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks Mr. Maloney to conjecture what would happen if these participants were irresponsible. If they did want to amend the constitution, wouldn't that still have to go back to the states for ratification? MR. MALONEY responds that even if participants at a conference stated they want to change the constitution, any of their actions would simply be advisory. This does not trigger the Article V device. No matter what the proposal, it will all have to come back to the states. It will have to be considered by the states, and then acted on by the congress, the same as any proposal or request for a constitutional amendment would. Number 483 SUSAN ROSS, testifying from Soldotna, states there will not be any great statesmen at the conference, and that she does not have confidence in the ability of any current legislators. She thinks the legislature has passed many unconstitutional bills. CHAIRMAN SHARP asks Ms. Ross to submit a list of bills passed in the last legislature that she considers unconstitutional. Number 504 MARK AMES, testifying from Barrow, states he agrees with all previous testimony. Mr. Ames states he does not support HJR 20. Mr. Ames reads his birth certificate. Number 538 JULIAN-PAUL WEIR, testifying from Glennallen, states he is opposed to HJR 20. Number 547 ED KNOEBEL, testifying from Glennallen, states he is opposed to HJR 20. Mr. Knoebel asks for copies of the documents committee members have in their bill packets. CHAIRMAN SHARP replies the committee will send those documents to Mr. Knoebel. Number 560 MAURICE STOUT, testifying from Tok, asks several questions: how will people be found to serve on the steering committee; how much will it cost; and why is it necessary? Number 575 MR. MALONEY refers to page 4 of one of the handouts for answers to Mr. Stout's questions. As to the cost of the conference, the fiscal note specifies a cost of $11,000. Number 585 PATRICK DALTON, testifying from Delta Junction, thinks HJR 20 would undermine the system, and perhaps completely destroy it. He thinks there is a nation-wide media blackout on the subject. TAPE 95-15, SIDE B MR. DALTON thinks a conference of the states will have the ability to call a constitutional convention. Number 566 DAVID BENTLEY, testifying from Homer, states he agrees with most of the previous statements. He suggests amending HJR 20 to assure a conference of the states will not lead to a constitutional convention. BERNARD GOODNO, testifying from Delta Junction, states he opposes HJR 20. He thinks it will lead to a constitutional convention, and he opposes a constitutional convention. Number 543 JIM RODERICK, testifying from Homer, thinks a conference of states could be ruinous, and asks that Alaska not participate in such a conference. He asks that HJR 20 be killed. Number 530 JACK POLSTER, testifying from Homer, states he is opposed to HJR 20. He asks committee members to take out their copies of the U.S. Constitution and read Article 1, Section 10 along with him. Number 500 KATHLEEN WEDEMEYER, testifying from Fairbanks, states she is opposed to HJR 20. She thinks there is a danger of a constitutional convention occurring. Number 475 GREGORY GARRELS, testifying from Fairbanks, states he is opposed to HJR 20. Mr. Garrels submitted written testimony to the committee. He thinks a conference of the states is a thinly disguised attempt to convene a constitutional convention. Mr. Garrels asserts HJR 20 would allow 96 people to completely overturn the constitution. Number 435 MICHAEL WEDEMEYER, testifying from Fairbanks, states a conference of the states is unnecessary and a threat to the U.S. Constitution. Mr. Wedemeyer asks the legislature to vote "No" on HJR 20. Number 415 C.R. LEWIS, testifying from Anchorage, states that the moment the Alaska State Legislature passes HJR 20, and appoints a delegation, it is no longer accountable to the legislature of Alaska. Mr. Lewis states it is a legal process, by which a revolutionary force is consolidated. He thinks we are on the verge of releasing sovereign powers to individuals. Number 357 ROCKY FRANK, testifying from Anchorage, notes that no one so far has spoken in favor of HJR 20. He states he will personally hold legislators accountable if they vote for HJR 20. He asks why a conference of the states is necessary, and asks how much it will cost. Mr. Frank asks why we need a constitutional convention. Number 315 ROBERT KOTTRE, testifying from Anchorage, states he is opposed to HJR 20, because he thinks it will lead to a constitutional convention. Number 300 CARMIE GILBERT, testifying from Matsu, states he is opposed to HJR 20. He does not see any need to change the constitution, and asks that HJR 20 be killed. Number 282 DAN GIFFORD, testifying from Wasilla, states he is opposed to HJR 20 and a constitutional convention. He asserts he was mostly instrumental in killing HJR 54 in 1990. Mr Gifford states the Republican party is opposed to a constitutional convention. He thinks that we will lose most of our rights. Number 238 ANTHONY MCNABB, testifying from Wasilla, states he is opposed to HJR 20 because he thinks it will destroy our present constitution and lead to blood shed. Number 220 LEONARD EFTA, testifying from Soldotna, asks why the states are empowering their delegates to a conference of the states, and asks why the delegates need power. He asks why there has been a media blackout. Number 193 GARY SUPERMAN, testifying from Soldotna, asks the committee to kill HJR 20. He thinks the premise that the federal and state governments should be on equal footing is ludicrous. Number 136 SEYMOUR MILLS, testifying from Soldotna, states HJR 20 is dangerous, and could lead to a constitutional convention. He thinks the sponsors and the supporters of HJR 20 should be removed from office immediately. Number 107 KEITH ELKINS testifying from Homer, also thinks anyone in favor of HJR 20 should be immediately removed from office and tried for treason. Number 088 JOHN GLANVILLE, testifying from Homer, states he also opposes HJR 20. Number 085 LARRY SLONE, testifying from Homer, states he opposes HJR 20. He thinks a conference of the states will turn into a constitutional convention. He also questions the quality of participants in such a conference, and asserts there are currently no great statesmen. Number 057 KATHLEEN MOORE, testifying from Homer, states she agrees with previous testimony. TAPE 95-16, SIDE A Number 002 ART GRISWOLD, Alaska Independence Party, testifying from Fairbanks, states the Alaska Independence Party is opposed to a conference of the states. PAT COOK, testifying from Fairbanks, states there is no need for a conference of the states. Number 065 DAVID DOHNER, testifying from Fairbanks, states he is opposed to HJR 20, because of the possibility of it being a constitutional convention. If the legislature is really upset at the federal government and wants to show it, just pass some laws, and throw some EPA personnel or some BLM personnel in jail for violating those laws. He raises issue with the fact that HJR 20 will only allow democrats and republicans to attend a conference of the states; he thinks an AIP member should be allowed to attend. Number 085 SANDOR MANYOKY, testifying from Anchorage, wants to see more public debate on HJR 20. CHAIRMAN SHARP asks anyone unable to testify today to please send written testimony to the committee, or be available to testify at a hearing on April 18, 1995. Number 126 SUSAN MANYOKY, testifying from Anchorage, doesn't think HJR 20 will set up an informal conference, and asks why it needs to be so formal. Ms. Manyoky thinks HJR 20 will be dangerous and asks that it not be released from committee. Number 158 DEANNA CRESAP, testifying from Anchorage, thinks HJR 20 will be construed by the organizers of a conference of the states and by the courts as an open door to a constitutional convention. BARBARA SWALLOW, testifying from Matsu, thinks a conference of the states will be a waste of money and time. Number 202 GRETCHEN O'BARR, testifying from Matsu, explains how much she loves the U.S. Constitution, and asks how a conference of the states could positively change the constitution. Number 230 MICHAEL A. NELSON, testifying from Matsu, asks where funding will come from for a conference of the states. He asks where the wording in HJR 20 relating to the Tenth amendment came from; he thinks it is incorrect. Number 280 BRAD TURKINGTON, testifying from Soldotna, urges the committee to kill HJR 20. He asks for passage of SJR 7. Number 295 TOM SCARBOROUGH, testifying from Fairbanks, states he is opposed to HJR 20. He does not think it is in the best interest of Alaska. Mr. Scarborough informs the committee he is forwarding written testimony. Number 317 JOY COOK, testifying from Fairbanks, does not think HJR 20 relates to a states' rights movement. Ms. Cook states she is opposed to HJR 20. Number 343 CARLA VON RON CEILIER, testifying from Fairbanks, states there is nothing currently wrong with the constitution. She states the U.S. has always been the laughing stock of the world. Ms. Von Ron Ceilier urges the legislature not to pass HJR 20. If there is bloodshed and war due to passage of HJR 20, it will be upon the legislature's conscience. Number 374 CHARLES MCKEE, testifying from Anchorage, gives testimony in opposition to HJR 20, and other topics. Number 403 SAMUEL HAYWOOD, testifying from Anchorage, asks the legislature to oppose a conference of the states and to uphold the constitution, as it is written. Number 430 KENNETH SMITH, testifying from Anchorage, states he is opposed to HJR 20. Number 440 DAVE RUTZ, testifying from Matsu, states he is opposed to HJR 20, and thinks it could possibly lead to a constitutional convention. Number 453 DONALD GRABER, testifying from Matsu, asks the committee to kill HJR 20; he is opposed to the resolution. Number 471 JOHN THOMAS, testifying from Matsu, gives testimony in opposition to HJR 20. Number 485 DAVID CRAWFORD, testifying from Matsu, states we should not mess with the constitution, and opposes HJR 20. Number 500 LILLIAN VILLWOK, testifying from Anchorage, states she is opposed to HJR 20. She does not think a conference of states is necessary, and thinks that it could be turned into a constitutional convention. Ms. Villwok also believes decisions made at a conference of the states would be binding. Number 532 BARBARA FIX, testifying from Matsu, believes a conference of the states will lead to a constitutional convention to destroy the Constitution of the United States. She thinks HJR 20 would be another move towards socialism. Ms. Fix asks Alaska to stand against tyranny and a person's god-given right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. She asks the legislature to vote "No" on HJR 20. Number 550 CHAIRMAN SHARP announces that there may be another hearing on HJR 20 on April 18th, and that 52 people were able to testify today. Number 558 CHAIRMAN SHARP adjourns the Senate State Affairs Committee meeting at 5:48 p.m.