ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE  SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE  April 1, 2013 3:33 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT    Senator Cathy Giessel, Chair Senator Fred Dyson, Vice Chair Senator Peter Micciche Senator Lesil McGuire Senator Hollis French MEMBERS ABSENT  Senator Click Bishop Senator Anna Fairclough COMMITTEE CALENDAR  CONFIRMATION HEARINGS Board of Fisheries  Thomas Kluberton - Talkeetna Claude V. Webster - King Salmon - CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED Big Game Commercial Services Board Henry Tiffany IV - Ester - CONFIRMATION ADVANCED PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION  No previous action consider WITNESS REGISTER THOMAS KLUBERTON Ester, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as an appointee to the Board of Fisheries. ANDREW COUCH, representing himself Matsu Advisory Committee Matsu, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the reappointment of Mr. Kluberton and Mr. Webster to the Board of Fisheries. ROBERT HEYANO, representing himself Dillingham, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the reappointment of Mr. Kluberton and Mr. Webster to the Board of Fisheries. VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, representing himself North Pole, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the reappointment of Mr. Kluberton and Mr. Webster to the Board of Fisheries, and the appointment of Mr. Tiffany to the Big Game Commercial Services Board. PAUL SHADURA Kenai Peninsula Fisherman's Association (KPFA) Kenai, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the reappointment of Mr. Kluberton and Mr. Webster to the Board of Fisheries. BRUCE KNOWLES, representing himself Willow, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the reappointment of Mr. Kluberton to the Board of Fisheries, and in opposition to the reappointment of Mr. Webster to the Board of Fisheries. CLAUDE WEBSTER King Salmon, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as an appointee to the Board of Fisheries. RICKY GEASE, Executive Director Kenai River Sport Fishing Association Soldotna, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the reappointment of Mr. Webster to the Board of Fisheries. HENRY TIFFANY IV Fairbanks, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as an appointee to the Big Game Commercial Services Board. KELLY VREM, Chairman Big Game Commercial Services Board Sutton, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the reappointment of Mr. Tiffany to the Big Game Commercial Services Board. RICHARD ROHRER, representing himself Kodiak, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the reappointment of Mr. Tiffany to the Big Game Commercial Services Board. SAM ROHRER, representing himself Kodiak, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the reappointment of Mr. Tiffany to the Big Game Commercial Services Board. THOR STACY, lobbyist Alaska Professional Hunter's Association Juneau, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the reappointment of Mr. Tiffany to the Big Game Commercial Services Board. ACTION NARRATIVE 3:33:02 PM CHAIR CATHY GIESSEL called the Senate Resources Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:33 p.m. Present at the call to order were Senators French, Micciche, Dyson, and Chair Giessel. ^Confirmation Hearing:==Board of Fisheries CONFIRMATION HEARINGS  Board of Fisheries  3:33:37 PM CHAIR GIESSEL announced that the business before the committee would be confirmation hearings. She asked Mr. Kluberton to tell them why he wanted to serve the Board of Fisheries (BOF). 3:34:04 PM THOMAS KLUBERTON, appointee to the Board of Fisheries, Ester, Alaska, related that he came to Alaska in 1984 and worked in Juneau with the state for close to 10 years; his last position was director of Information Systems, Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF). He moved to Talkeetna in 1993 where he began restoring an old National Historic Register fishing and hunting lodge that he and his family runs as a small inn/bed and breakfast. He had some spare time in the winters, so he became involved in the community council which led to the Matsu Planning Commission and to the Matsu Borough Assembly where he served for three years. While a member, Curt Menard was Mayor and was willing to reintroduce (by request) the Mayor's Blue Ribbon Sportsman's Committee and asked him to get it going. So, he organized a group of folks and among those who were interested in the sustainability of fish in the Matsu area was a gentlemen by the name of Larry Engel. He turned out to have been a renowned member of the Board of Fisheries who had been a 20 year biologist with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) in Southcentral Alaska. So, Mr. Kluberton was educated by members of the Sportsman's Committee and Mr. Engel and learned a lot about Alaska's sustainable salmon fisheries policy. His group with Larry in the lead was quite effective in 2008 in encouraging the board to grant stock of concern status to Susitna and Yetna sockeye salmon on a yield basis. When his assembly term ended Mr. Kluberton said he was encouraged to throw his name in the hat for the Board of Fisheries and did so. He ended up on the board three years ago and has had a great opportunity from that point on to expand the knowledge he gained from working with those people. 3:39:34 PM SENATOR FRENCH thanked him for serving another term and asked him which cases or questions are the hardest to work with and the easiest. MR. KLUBERTON answered that the most difficult cases are ones that don't have a real solid clear answer in policy, conservation or sustainability, and the toughest one was of permit stacking for set netters. This is where the board is asked if it's okay for one member to hold two limited entry permits for set net fisheries and the legislature gave the board the authority years back to allow it. The theory was to reduce the amount of gear in a fishery and try to normalize overcapitalized fisheries and it was aimed mostly at the Bristol Bay drift net fishery during the lean times. 3:41:16 PM SENATOR MCGUIRE joined the committee. MR. KLUBERTON said that people can fish two permits but they can only use one and half times the amount of gear. He explained that eventually the desire to make the fisheries more economically viable occurred to the set net fishermen and they began seeing proposals asking to stack up set net permits. That became a very lively discussion with stakeholders living in the areas and outside the areas who just realized with more permits they can make a better living. The most pro side of that discussion came from folks who lived in the eastern side of Bristol Bay who run set net sites but were having a very difficult time with the amount of gear they could put in the water to make ends meet as prices go up. King Salmon's economy was hurting also because they lost the Air Force base. While on the western side, the guys somehow thought stacking increased the value of permits and if the values rose, then more individuals on the west side wouldn't have the wherewithal to buy another permit. So it put the price of entering the fishery out of their reach. That type of a question is really hard to find a clear best answer to and the board doesn't get a lot of direction from statutes. The issue was visited a couple of times over the last three years and in other areas, like Kodiak, where there was a lot of opposition to it. Cook Inlet didn't have much opposition and it went well in Yakutat, but in Bristol Bay it was wildly contentious. 3:45:22 PM SENATOR MICCICHE asked how he makes allocation decisions when there just aren't enough fish. MR. KLUBERTON explained that he hadn't "risen through the ranks as a fanatic fisherman or a sports guide or commercial fisherman" and just doesn't have a dog in the fight, so he can stand back and watch and see what strikes him as being fair. One of the great things about the Board of Fisheries process is that they can go on forever, the shortest being five to six days, but a Cook Inlet meeting will last for two weeks. They get tremendous amounts of input from the public. To start with, anyone in the state can submit a proposal based on their perception of what is going on with the fisheries - Advisory committees can turn in proposals and anyone can submit written comments prior to the meeting - they can come from anywhere. Then during the meeting they start out with three minutes per person for anyone who walks in the door and wants to speak. After everyone has had their say, which can go on for days, they will break into committees based on groups of proposals. Maybe they'll be looking at allocations between two user groups and all the proposals that deal with those allocations will come into a group. Their job then becomes hearing each proposal and interviewing the 20 or so people who have a very lively interest in that discussion. As board members the greatest opportunity they to resolve allocation issues is to ask those user groups to work it out among themselves, but if they can't reach a compromise, the seven dark angels will do it for them. 3:51:46 PM ANDREW COUCH, representing himself, Matsu Advisory Committee, Matsu, Alaska, supported Mr. Kluberton's appointment to the Board of Fisheries, saying that he is interested in conservation of the resource and listens to all users. He accepts ADF&G's positions as the best data available while still being able to challenge questionable biology. 3:54:18 PM ROBERT HEYANO, representing himself, Dillingham, Alaska, supported Mr. Kluberton's re-appointment to the Board of Fisheries saying that he is extremely accessible to all members of the public and explains the reasons for his vote. He demonstrates leadership qualities and his ability to serve on the Cook Inlet Task Force this past winter speaks volumes for his commitment to the process and his willingness to tackle contentious issues. 3:56:08 PM VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, representing himself, North Pole, Alaska, said he is chairman of the Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Committee that voted unanimously to support Mr. Kluberton's reappointment to the Board of Fisheries. He listens to the public and pays attention to the science. 3:57:14 PM PAUL SHADURA, Kenai Peninsula Fisherman's Association (KPFA), Kenai, Alaska, supported Mr. Kluberton's reappointment to the Board of Fisheries. He's approachable, respectful, and is concerned about the sustainability of Alaska's fisheries resources. He said all of the board candidates expend the extra effort to listen to stakeholders and understand the complex science and strive for a balance of opportunities for traditional harvesters, a feat that requires not only a concern for conservation but also maintaining an abundant yield of fisheries resources so all the citizens of the state can enjoy them. He said that Mr. Kluberton demonstrated extra effort in coming up with a Cook Inlet Task Force plan in October; he co-chaired and spent a lot of time contacting task force members individually and was available to them. He also worked with ADF&G to get science that all users hadn't seen to establish some basis for including their recommendation as an escapement goal for the contentious issue of the Kenai River King Salmon. 3:59:36 PM BRUCE KNOWLES, representing himself, Willow, Alaska, said he is chairman of the Susitna Valley Advisory Committee and the Matsu Borough Fish and Wildlife Committee and supported Mr. Kluberton's reappointment. He has worked with Mr. Kluberton for three years on the old borough fisheries group and found him very astute and easy to work with; he did a good job in the last three years and needs to stay around for the next three. CHAIR GIESSEL, finding no further comments on Mr. Kluberton's reappointment, closed public testimony and invited Mr. Webster to introduce himself and tell them why he wants to be reappointed and a little about the challenges and rewards he found in serving on the board. 4:01:21 PM CLAUDE WEBSTER, appointee to the Board of Fisheries, King Salmon, Alaska, said he became actively involved in the process over 20 years ago through the Naknek-Quijak advisory Committee on which he served 15 years as chairman. He served the last six years on the Board of Fisheries. He became involved basically to protect the resource and he felt honored to be reappointed to a third term. He believes in the process and that it is the best one in the world and he wants to protect it. SENATOR MICCICHE said fisheries issues are pretty contentious and asked how he separates out his long history of commercial fishing to make fair allocations between commercial, sport and personal uses. MR. WEBSTER answered that the board has a seven-point allocation criteria policy that has been held up in the judicial system all the way to the Supreme Court, and he relies heavily on those criteria when he takes on these contentious issues. 4:03:47 PM SENATOR MCGUIRE said the committee had received quite a few comments both for and against his reappointment and so she wanted to ask questions about the recent Cook Inlet/Kenai meeting in March where a new escapement goal was set for late run King Salmon in the Kenai River. Her concern - as well as others' concern - was the shortage of fish generally and King Salmon, in particular, in the Susitna drainage. The concern centers around the fact that an escapement goal was originally set for a range of 17,800 to 35,700 fish and then it was changed with a vote to 15,000 to 30,000, approximately 43 percent lower. That allocation may have been irresponsible in light of managing the fisheries, so she asked him to walk them through his decision process. MR. WEBSTER replied that the board does not set the sustainable escapement goals (SEG) goals; the department is responsible for setting those as well as biological escapement goals (BEG). The department used its scientific data to come up with the lower end of 15,000. Every single scientist from the user groups that opposed it, even an independent scientist, agreed that the 15,000 was sustainable. He explained that the board can only set an official escapement goal (OEG) and it was never discussed for the board to set an OEG that override the department's SEG, but that may be taken up next year in cycle. SENATOR MCGUIRE asked if the board was considering a couple of other options rather than just adopting this lowest escapement goal. 4:09:37 PM MR. WEBSTER answered yes; the board decided to have him and Mr. Kluberton chair a winter-long meeting with the mission of coming up with solutions to allow some other way of fishing rather than having a total closure (which is what happened with set netting and sport fishing on the Kenai). It became clear from all users that the preference was for a total closure rather than reduced fishing. So, that is what the board approved in the end. SENATOR MCGUIRE asked if he thought his job was to simply listen to the testimony from the department and adopt that. MR. WEBSTER replied that the department has the sole authority to set SEGs and BEGs, but the board can override those with an OEG. But because there wasn't any notice to the public for setting an OEG, which is part of the process, it probably wouldn't have held up in court. 4:13:24 PM SENATOR MCGUIRE said her last question was if he would agree that it was acknowledged by the department's staff during their presentation that there was no brood year return data to support a sustainable escapement goal of less than 24,000. MR. WEBSTER replied he didn't remember everything that was stated in the presentation, but recalled some questions about how escapement goals were set based on historical data and there was no lower end of escapement on the data points to know exactly what the threshold of the lower end is. That is because Kenai hasn't totally crashed, which is actually a good thing. SENATOR FRENCH said he didn't get the stack of correspondence that Senator McGuire was referring to. CHAIR GIESSEL explained that they did not come through the committee; she got one letter that was in support of both appointees. She then opened public testimony. 4:15:36 PM RICKY GEASE, Executive Director, Kenai River Sport Fishing Association, Soldotna, Alaska, opposed Mr. Webster's appointment to the Board of Fisheries, saying that the Alaska Legislature has delegated to the board the primary responsibility for the conservation for fishery resources in the state and harvest allocations of surplus fish to user groups. In his words: When the actions by the board undermine public confidence and its primary responsibility for fishery conservation, it is incumbent upon the Alaska legislature to restore confidence in the board process through its oversight responsibility in the confirmation of board members. Our opposition is not based on having commercial oriented representatives on the board of Fisheries. We support having a balanced representation on the BOF from various user groups and from geographical areas in the state. Instead out opposition is based squarely on the public perception that the Board of Fish in the face of historic low returns of the iconic King Salmon to the Kenai River recent accepted a questionable Fish and Game recommendation to lower the Kenai King escapement goal. It took no other action such as establishing an OEG higher than that and took no other action to amend failed management plans. The bottom line: the board was led in this discussion and the decision making process for Kenai Kings by the Bristol Bay representative to the board, Mr. Webster who directed and guided the discussion and drafting of documents of the RCs of the Board of Fish meeting and pushed hard for whatever gave the commercial set net fishery the best chance to get back in the water for an unrestricted 2013 fishing season that took precedence over rigorous science, fairness or economics. In relation to the warning flags issued by the independent reviewers regarding the department we have heard through the Senator's questioning that two-thirds of the escapement goal was below the known range of historical data, that lowering the goal came with greater risks of overfishing to the stocks and the main beneficiary, the commercial set net would come at the expense of the fishery resource. Such an agenda trumps the priority for fishery conservation and abdicates the board's responsibility to put fish ahead of the financial considerations of any particular user group. Board members are to be independent evaluators in the board process who act to safeguard the public resource, question and probe the department to make sure that the best available science is being discussed and debated and not to act as a rubber stamp for the interests of one user group or the department, itself. Kenai is by no means out of the woods. The 2013 run is predicted to be equal to the smallest run on record. By taking no other action than lowering the escapement goal in order to provide the commercial fishing opportunity leaves the department managers with the same management plans that so dramatically failed to provide the best mix of fishing opportunity and best means of achieving the escapement objective in 2012. We had a colossal failure in Cook Inlet; it cost our community more than $30 million. What's going to happen? The department will find itself back in the business of picking winners and losers amongst competing fisheries without any direction from this board. We ask for better leadership from the board and especially from Mr. Webster to protect and conserve our fisheries resources and then and only then to allocate the harvestable surplus in a fair and equitable manner to all user groups. SENATOR FRENCH asked what the BOF vote was on lowering that escapement. MR. GEASE replied that the board took two different RCs up at two different times and then when it became apparent that after almost close to two days of arguing and discussing this, they bifurcated the decision and decided to accept the 15,000 to 30,000 and took no other management action than that. So, they basically punted and left the decision of how best to manage the fishery in the department's hands. SENATOR FRENCH asked if the vote on the escapement level was unanimous. MR. GEASE replied that it was unanimous. 4:20:22 PM PAUL SHADURA, Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association (KPFA), Kenai Alaska, supported Mr. Webster's reappointment to the Board of Fisheries. Since they had already heard his presentation for Mr. Kluberton he said he would cut to the chase about Mr. Webster. He had been on the board for two terms and had done an excellent job among all users within the state. Fishermen around the state, commercial and other users, always have complex issues and there are always those that feel they didn't get what they wanted. KPFA's position for the last statewide meeting was a 7 to 0 vote to support the ADF&G; that did not mean that other users, such as Kenai Peninsula set netters actually appreciated it. Other options were on the table, but at the end, the compromise between what the department wanted, what they wanted, and what the public agreed to was to support the department's efforts to solidify the counting methods and their management. He noted explained that the previous counting system was a split-beam Bendix, an altogether different type of metrics than the new Ditson system uses - similar to using the metric system versus feet and inches. The same escapement goal that was used for the previous Bendix, which tended to over-count the King Salmon entering the Kenai River, has been scaled back and corrected to the new Ditson Mixture model system. The same lower SEG is in place. In fact, all the curves and modeling using the corrective factors all the way back to 1986 show that you can have an escapement of 13,000 to 28,000 and still return the same yield of 30,000. MR. SHADURA said that Mr. Webster did an excellent job and his efforts are appreciated. "It is nice to have members that are willing to sacrifice and continue on the board and have the knowledge to do so." 4:23:55 PM VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, representing himself, Fairbanks, Alaska, supported Mr. Webster's reappointment to the Board of Fisheries. He had known him for at least 20 years and worked with him when he was on the Board of Fisheries and Mr. Webster was chairman of the Naknek Quijak Advisory Committee. 4:24:30 PM ANDREW COUCH, representing himself, Matsu, Alaska, supported Mr. Webster's reappointment to the Board of Fisheries. He is conservation minded and approachable to all user groups. He understands what he, as a sport fishing guide, is talking about and defers to the department's science, especially when there is a conflict with the sport position. He wanted Mr. Webster's knowledge of the different fisheries around the state to continue for another term. 4:26:43 PM BRUCE KNOWLES, representing himself, Willow, Alaska, opposed Mr. Webster's appointment to the Board of Fisheries saying he had let the state down in managing its resources for conservation. Currently in the north district of Cook Inlet, six King Salmon stocks and one sockeye salmon stock are stocks of concern. They just found out recently that there will be four additional King Salmon streams and possibly 1 to 2 coho streams that have qualified as stocks of concern. That means in the state they have the majority of all stock of concerns. He has found that Mr. Webster strongly supports commercial fishing interests; he led the charge in 2008 to add three additional periods to the commercial fishing time for northern district set netters and this was on stocks that were already on the edge of a stock of concern listing. He has not supported adding Lower Susitna coho as a stock of concern and it missed its escapement goal. He does not support in-stream management or sustainability, especially in the northern district. 4:29:14 PM ROBERT HEYANO, supported Mr. Webster's reappointment to the Board of Fisheries, saying he has the same good qualities Mr. Kluberton has. In addition, he personally has known Mr. Webster during his 15-year tenure on the Naknek Quijak Advisory Council and he has a strong commitment to conservation of the resources. Mr. Webster and his family have set net sites in the Quijak and he has personal financial losses due to the lack of fishing there. CHAIR GIESSEL, finding no further comments, closed public testimony and said that concluded the hearing on these two appointees. She said in accordance with AS 39.05.080, the Resources Committee reviewed the following and recommends the appointments be forwarded to a joint session for consideration: Board of Fisheries: Thomas Kluberton and Claude "Vince" Webster. This does not reflect an intent by any of the members to vote for against the confirmation of the individual during any further sessions. 4:32:19 PM At ease from 4:32 to 4:33 p.m. ^Confirmation Hearing:==Big Game Commercial Services Board Big Game Commercial Services Board  4:33:09 PM CHAIR GIESSEL announced that the committee would next take up the Governor's nominees for the Big Game Commercial Services Board. She invited Mr. Tiffany to tell about his affiliations, experience, and interest in this appointment. 4:33:24 PM HENRY TIFFANY, IV, appointee to the Big Game Commercial Services Board, Fairbanks, Alaska, said his grandfather served on the first guide board that was established in Alaska and as editor of the Alaska Sportsmen, which became Alaska Magazine later, he knew many of the original old time guides in Alaska. So, he has a long connection with the guiding industry, although he is the first in his family to be a licensed big game guide. He was fortunate to discover the guiding profession early in his life and is honored to serve and give back in small measure to a profession and industry and a way of life that means so much to him. He was concerned about the industry as a whole: the land and the animals. Some real issues are facing the state in the guiding industry however, particularly the overcrowding of guides on state lands and some other transporter issues. He wanted the profession and the industry and the way of life that means so much to him to be available and a viable option for his children and future generations, but that takes work. It is his turn to give back and help steward the guiding industry into the hands of future generations. He has hunted and guided throughout all the major regions of Alaska; his primary areas of expertise are the Interior, the Brooks Range and the Alaska Peninsula. He also has concentrated experience in Southeast, Southwest and Kodiak Island. He enjoys being out in the field and said, "It's the fun part." MR. TIFFANY said he has experienced guiding throughout Alaska, but primarily working as the guide and outfitter in charge; he has also worked for other guides and that gives him a broad background of experience in all aspects of the guiding industry including the use of air taxis and transporters. He tries to maintain a "big picture view" of what the industry could be and what is best for the whole even though it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best for him or the ones he knows. He said that he has served on Big Game Commercial Services Board subcommittees and had been a proctor for the guide exams for many years and had been a very active participant in the Big Game Commercial Services Board meetings since it was reestablished after it had been sunseted; he is chairman of the Rural Services area where he lives. SENATOR FRENCH thanked him for his willingness to serve and said his application package was very thorough and impressive, but he asked him to explain how a small claims case with a client who wanted a full refund of his hunt got resolved. MR. TIFFANY responded that the only discordial client he ever had was an individual on his third sheep hunt with him. Unfortunately, this person came to the hunt with the distinct attitude that he had forgotten more about hunting sheep in Alaskan than Mr. Tiffany had ever known. (One of the great beauties of this profession is that you are constantly learning.) But it is fair to say that his 33 sheep hunts compared to his client's 3 gave him a few more insights. MR. TIFFANY recalled this individual voicing his frustration to the other hunter that the only time he ever hires a guide is when he absolutely has to, because he didn't really need them, which wasn't the greatest footing on which to start 10 days together in remote Alaska and needless to say he had very specific expectations of the kind of quality sheep he wanted, which Mr. Tiffany said he supported. But throughout the hunt he saw only one ram and none that he judged to be much superior to the one his client had harvested previously. On the final day of the hunt they stalked a ram but couldn't get any closer than 400 yards, so he passed it as an unethical shot. At the conclusion of the hunt, the client asked for a full refund, because he didn't get a sheep. Mr. Tiffany said that wasn't possible - his fees had been committed to the air taxis, the food he had eaten and people who had supported the hunt - however, he offered him a discounted hunt next year with another guide. Subsequently, the client flew back to the Lower 48 and filed a small claim against him, the only one he has had. If he had done something wrong Mr. Tiffany said he would have taken responsibility for it, but in this case he did nothing wrong. His client didn't get the sheep he wanted, but that is why it's called hunting and not killing. MR. TIFFANY said he refused to pay and hired an attorney and requested this to go to trial wanting both sides of the story to be heard by his peers. The client dragged his feet and did not really want to go through with it to the point that the judge became very frustrated and almost charged him with contempt, and nothing came from it. SENATOR FRENCH thanked him for that explanation. 4:45:20 PM CHAIR GIESSEL opened public testimony. 4:45:33 PM KELLY VREM, Chairman, Big Game Commercial Services Board, Sutton, Alaska, supported Mr. Tiffany's appointment to the Big Game Commercial Services Board. He's one of the folks that shows up at all the meetings and happily accepts any assignments the chair asks. 4:46:51 PM RICHARD ROHRER, representing himself, Kodiak, Alaska, said he is a guide who has been involved in the industry since 1965 and had just completed serving two terms on the Big Game Commercial Services Board. He supported Mr. Tiffany's appointment to the Big Game Commercial Services Board concurring with Mr. Vrem's assessment of him. 4:47:37 PM VIRGIL UMPHENOUR said he is also a big game guide who supported Mr. Tiffany's appointment. He had known him for some time and thought he would be an asset to the board; he is a "fair chase guide," which means he's the guy who walks around out there on the ground. 4:48:54 PM SAM ROHRER, representing himself, Kodiak, Alaska, said he is a registered hunting guide and supported Mr. Tiffany's reappointment. He is thoughtful and articulate and "without a doubt" will always have the future of the guiding industry foremost in his mind. 4:49:57 PM THOR STACY, lobbyist, Alaska Professional Hunter's Association, Juneau, Alaska, supported Mr. Tiffany's appointment to the Big Game Commercial Services Board. Mr. Stacy explained that the Professional Hunter's Association is representative of a fair portion of the guide businesses in the state and has a high standard of professionalism and that Mr. Tiffany is right; buying a hunt and therefore automatically expecting to harvest an animal is illegal in the State of Alaska and he did his best to bring someone back in a fair chase climate. Those are things that as professionals they find to be considered "high standards." MR. STACY said that Mr. Tiffany had attended every single Big Game Commercial Services Board meeting and has an excellent working knowledge of regulation and statute; he is well educated and has a good background in Roberts Rules of Order. He'll bring integrity to the board process. There are two guide seats on the Big Game Commercial Services Board and his seat is important. CHAIR GIESSEL, finding no further comments, closed public testimony saying in accordance with AS 39.05.080, the Resources Committee reviewed the following and recommends the appointment be forwarded to a joint session for consideration: Big Game Commercial Services Board, Henry Tiffany. SENATOR FRENCH raised a point of order and asked how she could do that with only three people present on the committee. CHAIR GIESSEL responded that before he left, Senator Micciche signed the forwarding document. She continued that this does not reflect an intent by any of the members to vote for against the confirmation of the individual during any further sessions. There were no objections and it was so ordered. 4:53:34 PM CHAIR GIESSEL adjourned the Senate Resources Committee meeting at 4:54 p.m.