ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE  SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE  March 26, 2008 3:39 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair Senator Lyda Green Senator Gary Stevens Senator Bill Wielechowski Senator Thomas Wagoner MEMBERS ABSENT  Senator Bert Stedman, Vice Chair Senator Lesil McGuire COMMITTEE CALENDAR  CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 137(FIN) am "An Act providing for free hunting and sport fishing licenses for active members of the Alaska National Guard; and amending the requirements for the identification card needed for sport fishing, hunting, and trapping without a license by residents who are 60 years of age or more; and providing for an effective date." HEARD AND HELD Confirmation Hearings: Board of Fisheries William S. Brown, Juneau CONFIRMATION ADVANCED John E. Jensen, Petersburg Melvan E. Morris, Kodiak HEARD AND HELD PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION  BILL: HB 137 SHORT TITLE: FISHING/HUNTING/TRAPPING LICENSES SPONSOR(s): FISHERIES 02/14/07 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 02/14/07 (H) FSH, RES, FIN 02/19/07 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124 02/19/07 (H) -- Meeting Canceled -- 02/23/07 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124 02/23/07 (H) Moved CSHB 137(FSH) Out of Committee 02/23/07 (H) MINUTE(FSH) 02/26/07 (H) FSH RPT CS(FSH) 2DP 1DNP 2NR 02/26/07 (H) DP: WILSON, SEATON 02/26/07 (H) DNP: JOHANSEN 02/26/07 (H) NR: LEDOUX, HOLMES 02/26/07 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM BARNES 124 02/26/07 (H) 03/12/07 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124 03/12/07 (H) Moved CSHB 137(RES) Out of Committee 03/12/07 (H) MINUTE(RES) 03/14/07 (H) RES RPT CS(RES) 4DP 4NR 03/14/07 (H) DP: SEATON, ROSES, WILSON, JOHNSON 03/14/07 (H) NR: EDGMON, GUTTENBERG, KAWASAKI, GATTO 03/27/07 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519 03/27/07 (H) Heard & Held 03/27/07 (H) MINUTE(FIN) 03/28/07 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519 03/28/07 (H) Scheduled But Not Heard 03/29/07 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519 03/29/07 (H) Moved CSHB 137(FIN) Out of Committee 03/29/07 (H) MINUTE(FIN) 04/02/07 (H) FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 6DP 5NR 04/02/07 (H) DP: GARA, FOSTER, CRAWFORD, THOMAS, MEYER, CHENAULT 04/02/07 (H) NR: JOULE, NELSON, HAWKER, STOLTZE, KELLY 02/27/08 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S) 02/27/08 (H) VERSION: CSHB 137(FIN) AM 02/29/08 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 02/29/08 (S) RES, FIN 03/26/08 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 WITNESS REGISTER REPRESENTATIVE PAUL SEATON Alaska State Capitol Juneau, AK 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 137. KATIE SHOWS Staff to Representative Seaton Alaska State Capitol Juneau, AK 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 137 for the sponsor. KRISTIN WRIGHT, Supervisor Finance and Licensing Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) Juneau AK POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 137. DREW SPARLIN, representing himself Kenai AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 137 and supported the reappointments of Mr. Morris and Mr. Jensen to the Alaska Board of Fisheries. MCHUGH PIERRE, Legislative Liaison Department of Military & Veterans Affairs (DMVA) Juneau AK POSITION STATEMENT: Strongly supported HB 137 especially because of section 3.   WILLIAM S. BROWN Anchorage AK POSITION STATEMENT: Nominee to the Board of Fisheries. BRUCE KNOWLES, representing himself Susitna AK POSITION STATEMENT: Endorsed Mr. Brown's appointment to the Board of Fisheries. LINDA KOZAK, representing herself Kodiak AK POSITION STATEMENT: Endorsed the appointments of Mr. Brown, Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris to the Board of Fisheries.  TOM LOGAN, representing himself Big Lake AK POSITION STATEMENT: Endorsed Mr. Brown, but objected to Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris for the Board of Fisheries. RICKY GEASE, Executive Director Kenai Sport Fishing Association Kenai AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointments of Mr. Brown, Mr. Morris and Mr. Jensen. TOM KORMETIS, representing himself Kodiak AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three appointees to the Board of Fisheries and Mr. Morris, in particular. STEVEN RUNYAN, Vice Chairman Susitna Valley Advisory Committee Susitna AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Mr. Brown's appointment, but not Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris.   AL BURCH, Executive Director Alaska Draggers Association Kodiak AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Mr. Morris, Mr. Jensen and Mr. Brown's appointments to the Board of Fisheries. ANDY COUCH, representing himself Matsu AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Mr. Brown, but not Mr. Morris or Mr. Jensen for the Board of Fisheries. JULIE BONNEY, representing herself Kodiak AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the reappointments of Mr. Morris and Mr. Jensen and the appointment of Mr. Brown to the Board of Fisheries. ROD ARNO, Executive Director Alaska Outdoor Council Anchorage AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Mr. Brown's appointment to the Board of Fisheries. JULIANNE CURRY, representing herself Petersburg AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the reappointment of Mr. Jensen to the Board of Fisheries. ROBERT HAIANO, representing himself Bristol Bay AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointments of Mr. Jensen, Mr. Morris and Mr. Brown to the Board of Fisheries. CLEM TILLION Aleutian Islands Corporation Halibut Cove AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointments of Mr. Jensen, Mr. Morris and Mr. Brown to the Board of Fisheries. REUBEN HANKE, representing himself Soldotna, AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointments of Mr. Jensen, Mr. Morris and Mr. Brown to the Board of Fisheries. ACTION NARRATIVE CHAIR CHARLIE HUGGINS called the Senate Resources Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:39:43 PM. Present at the call to order were Senators Green, Stevens, Wagoner, Wielechowski and Huggins. CSHB 137(FIN)am-FISHING/HUNTING/TRAPPING LICENSES  3:40:41 PM CHAIR HUGGINS announced CSHB 137(FIN)am to be up for consideration. REPRESENTATIVE PAUL SEATON, sponsor of HB 137, explained that this measure looks at the current Permanent Identification Program (PID) that is a free benefit for Alaskans who are seniors over 60 years old. Seniors who apply are given a temporary I.D. until they get a permanent one in the mail. It is good as a hunting, fishing and trapping license for the rest of one's life. He explained that the problem with the program is the potential for fraud because the initial application doesn't require people to prove they are an Alaskan resident. They don't even have to show a drivers' license and, in fact, if you have drivers' license from another state, that's fine - as long as you say you are an Alaskan resident. Troopers have reported having difficulty with this lack of verification. In 2006, 297,895 seniors had these free PID licenses for life. No one knows how current the cards are. Some people have actually quit selling fishing licenses because so many people using these cards for personal use fishing were obviously from out-of-state. You have to be a resident to have personal use privileges, but it's almost impossible for state troopers in the field to verify. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said HB 137 modifies the permanent identification to a three-year license. The whole intent is to give these free licenses to seniors, but to have them on a three-year cycle so that if people move out of state and no longer maintain their PFD eligibility, then they wouldn't be able to get the free license. The intent of the department is to just check PIDs against the PFD list and send people new cards as long as they were PFD eligible on a three-year cycle. Since some people disagree with the PFD program, HB 137 also has a provision allowing a senior to demonstrate he has been in Alaska for 180 days out of the previous year to maintain the same eligibility. He said HB 137 also expands this three-year free license to active duty National Guard that perform emergency services for Alaska as well as overseas in support of our country. 3:45:37 PM ADF&G estimates the state is losing $137,000 per year from non residents continuing to participate in hunting and fishing. About 300,000 cards are out there now and Alaska doesn't have 300,000 seniors. SENATOR STEVENS said he supported this measure and quipped about how many members of the Senate are over 60 and already have their permanent licenses. 3:47:04 PM SENATOR WAGONER said it was a good idea, but if the department knows there is that much fraud, why aren't they doing something about it and prosecuting them. He is embarrassed that it hasn't been addressed by the authorities already. SENATOR GREEN asked what the current penalty for fraud like this is. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON answered the he didn't know exactly, because the requirement for residency is "very squishy" because you can have an out-of-state drivers' license and still be an in-state resident. It's very difficult for troopers in the field to determine residency. SENATOR WAGONER asked how a person can have an out-of-state drivers' license and be eligible for a resident hunting and fishing license. Doesn't the law say you must get an Alaskan drivers' license as soon as you establish a residence here? REPRESENTATIVE SEATON replied that's true, but if you travel outside for any length of time even though you don't change your residency, you are often required to get a new drivers' license in some states. Nothing in Alaska statute ties a drivers' license to residency verification. He has been told by the troopers and the department that it is extremely difficult to identify residency; that's why they turned to PFD list. ADF&G has access to the PFD list which makes it an easy call. He said the penalty for fraud is five years and $5,000. SENATOR GREEN asked if the bill says giving wrong information on an application is fraud or vowing you are an Alaska resident to get a free PID. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON answered that any time you tell a lie on government paperwork there is a general fraud penalty; the PID doesn't have a separate penalty. Mostly what's happening is that someone was an Alaskan resident when they applied, but then they left the state. They have the permanent card even though fine print on the back of it says: This card must be in your possession while engaging in authorized activities as described in the front. The card is not valid if residency requirements as per AS 16.05.940 and AS 16.05.415 and veteran requirements, if applicable, per AS 16.05.341 are not maintained. CHAIR HUGGINS asked what those provisions mean. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON replied that a letter from the Division of Administrative Services in their packets explains that resident is: A person who for 12 consecutive months immediately preceding the time when the assertion of residency is made has maintain permanent domicile in the state and who is neither claiming residency in another state, territory or country or obtaining benefits under claim of residency in another state. He reiterated that the department has brought this issue forward as a problem and that's why the bill is here. 3:55:02 PM CHAIR HUGGINS said he wanted to see statistics on violations. KATIE SHOWS, staff to Representative Seaton, said there aren't any statistics because it's difficult to enforce and so it hasn't been a priority. She had a series of eight anecdotal comments from Wildlife Troopers about this type of abuse. CHAIR HUGGINS said he's looking for a simple solution and asked if they couldn't just require having a current Alaska drivers' license. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON answered that nothing in statute says an Alaskan resident over 60 years old has to have a drivers' license and many Natives in the field don't have them. Both the department and enforcement have said the current system does not work and have suggested using PFD data. 3:58:10 PM CHAIR HUGGINS said he thought about expanding the three years to five years. SENATOR WAGONER said he didn't know that there was as much abuse as the department says because he regularly drives through the parking lot for the Kenai dip net fishery looking for out-of- state licenses and he hasn't seen one. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON responded that they don't have any idea how much abuse goes on, but they do know 300,000 of these cards have been issued. One of the more problematic features has been not only the personal use fishery, but the permit hunts because a number of them require Alaskan residency. This loophole has been identified as a problem. CHAIR HUGGINS asked for examples. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON answered like goat hunting. CHAIR HUGGINS said age starts eliminating the older participants and most people over 60 don't hunt for goats. 4:01:37 PM SENATOR GREEN asked if they aren't enforcing what they currently have, why change anything if it's not going to make any difference. She didn't know why people over 60 get a free PID in the first place and she was struck by a comment in the sponsor statement that said HB 137 establishes stricter licensing requirements - and she asked where those were located. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON directed her to section 4 on page 3 where language says PFD eligibility is maintained by being in the state for 180 days a year. SENATOR GREEN asked when the proof of receiving a PFD kicks in - at someone's office who has access to the PFD records or to a trooper in the field. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON replied before the new card is issued, it will be checked at the ADF&G licensing counter. 4:04:35 PM CHAIR HUGGINS asked how this would work. KRISTIN WRIGHT, Supervisor, Finance and Licensing, Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), replied HB 137 says every three years she would have an automatic system that would cross- reference PIDs with the PFD disbursement file. People who received a PFD would automatically get a new card at that address. If not, she would send a letter stating that they did not receive a PFD and asking for other proof of residency like a utility bill. She wouldn't send anything if she didn't get a response. 4:06:37 PM SENATOR GREEN asked where it says "automatically." MS. WRIGHT answered that Representative Seaton wanted that done. The Department of Motor Vehicles sends out notices for expired licenses and she didn't think that many people would remember it's time to get a new PID card. SENATOR GREEN said its one thing to send them a renewal notice, but she wouldn't be automatically sending them a new PID card. MS. WRIGHT answered if they were on the PFD disbursal list, she wouldn't make seniors fill out another form because she would already know they are an Alaskan resident and send them a card. SENATOR WAGONER said it would cost the state $126,000 in postal charges alone to send out notices to the current 300,000 PID card holders. Why should the state spend that additional money if people are going to get a free fishing, hunting and trapping license for five years. They should be able to check every year to keep it current. Secondly, he asked, if the department already has a list of 300,000 PID cards, why aren't they cross checking them with the PFD list and sending out tickets to the violators in the mail and a date to appear in court. MS. WRIGHT answered they don't actually know that these people are actively fishing or hunting. She couldn't send them a ticket because they haven't been caught. It isn't until a trooper meets them in the field that they whip out their PID card. SENATOR WAGONER said he thought it would be pretty easy to compare the two lists and, if nothing else, come up with a watch list of who is not eligible and distribute that to the people in the field and the ones selling licenses. He thinks the state is way too easy on people who fill up their freezers and go back home with Alaska's resource. CHAIR HUGGINS asked her to explain the timing of checking with the PFD and the expiration. 4:12:30 PM MS. WRIGHT answered that a license is valid for a calendar year, January through December. A new license in 2008 would be valid through 2010. Some time in November or December 2010 she would look at the 2009 PFD eligibility disbursement and she would either send a new card, a renewal reminder or wait until the person contacts her. She would know the name is valid for that time period. CHAIR HUGGINS asked why not fix this in regulation. MS. WRIGHT replied they probably could, but would have to ask legal counsel. CHAIR HUGGINS asked what is out of sync with the calendar year. MS. WRIGHT answered that trapping license are valid through January 31 of the following year. CHAIR HUGGINS explained the reason for that is because trappers were out in the Bush. He still had a hard time believing this is a big problem. Is it a big problem her mind? MS. WRIGHT replied the Department of Public Safety (DPS) has heard a lot of concerns from its troopers in the field because it is very hard to tell if the people they see are really residents or not. You have to actually go out and prove by looking at their records where they are now living. In 2006, there were only two violations - one in Hyder and one in Ninilchik. She wasn't aware of any in 2007. SENATOR WAGONER said the PFD list doesn't do the department a bit of good in determining residency because someone can be gone from the state 300 days a year and as long as they maintain a residence and maintain their voting registration they are legally a resident of the state of Alaska. MS. WRIGHT said not and get the PFD. SENATOR WAGONER said just because a person doesn't get a PFD doesn't mean they aren't a resident. MS. WRIGHT replied she worked with the DPS and DOL about two years ago on the residency issue for fish and game purposes. Each program has its own residency requirements. One of the questions she came up with was how long could you be gone from the state. So the lawyers found that courts also look at the number of months spent at a domicile located in another state versus the number of months spent in Alaska. For example, if you spend nine months in another state and three months in Alaska, your residency in Alaska could be questioned and would be taken into consideration along with other factors. There isn't necessarily a hard and fast rule. 4:19:32 PM SENATOR WAGONER said they should put it either into regulation or statute because without that, people have a legitimate argument that they are legal residents. MS. WRIGHT agreed he was correct that putting it in statute would make it clear, but then you would have a big debate on how long you could be gone. SENATOR GREEN directed them to the Department of Administration memo on definitions. Since it's in the Administrative Code, she didn't think it necessarily had to be in statute. MS. WRIGHT said the code doesn't put the time limit in; only that it will be considered. SENATOR GREEN asked her to make sure the current identity theft legislation didn't impact the ability of her department to share information with other departments. CHAIR HUGGINS directed Ms. Wright to get together with his staff and work through these issues. He opened the public comment period. 4:21:58 PM DREW SPARLIN, Kenai resident for 40 years, said he is an active fisherman and hunter. He has been a grateful user of a PID card for last 10 years and he supported the concept behind HB 137 in light of its many benefits. 4:23:33 PM MCHUGH PIERRE, Legislative Liaison, Military and Veterans Affairs, strongly supported HB 137 especially because of section 3. They believe this is an opportunity to encourage efforts at recruiting, but also to recognize the men and women in the Alaska Army and Air National Guard for their efforts protecting our state and nation. CHAIR HUGGINS said this is intended as a recruiting tool and he thought they should make sure they are not excluding people who might be in a different unit. He asked if other states have a benefit like this. 4:25:56 PM MR. PIERRE answered not in Alaska, but other states have similar benefits where one presents a military I.D. as proof of being an active member in good standing. Reservists would have a certified document signed by your unit commander. CHAIR HUGGINS said sometimes people are a member of a unit, but they live in a different state and that is particularly true of the Air National Guard. He asked if Alaska has any of those instances because that would complicate the language in the bill a little bit. MR. PIERRE answered he didn't know of any Alaska Air National Guard members who are residents in another state, but he has heard anecdotal stories about members of the Air National Guard who live in Alaska that are members of the Washington or the California Air National Guard. CHAIR HUGGINS said he was trying to ascertain whether this language works for Alaska in the sense that they have to be a resident and an active member or is it just an active member. MR. PIERRE replied they have to be a resident and an active member; that can be established with the PFD qualifications as well as their UTA good standing certificate. They are talking about 4,300 members for the Guard; for the reserve components they are talking about another 750 people at the absolute most. CHAIR HUGGINS held HB 137 in committee. At ease from 4:29:14 PM to 4:36:20 PM. ^Confirmation hearings - Board of Fisheries 4:36:24 PM CHAIR HUGGINS called the meeting back to order and announced the committee next would hear from the appointees to the Board of Fisheries. WILLIAM S. BROWN, Juneau, reviewed his resume. He said he is 57 years old, is currently single and has no children. He has lived in Alaska since 1991 and grew up all over as a "Navy brat." He attended college in Texas and Colorado and received a PhD in Economics in 1977. He taught economics at the university level for 23 years, the last nine of which were at the University of Alaska Southeast. One of his main teaching fields was resources and environmental economics. He left the University in 2000 and now runs a fishing reel repair shop in Juneau. He has been an avid sports fisherman since he caught his first fish at the age of four; it may be the main passion of his life. He has caught different kinds of fish all over the world. He has three main things to offer as a member of the Board of Fisheries. He has an economics background and knows that people, culture and history are every bit as important as economics when making fish board decisions. Second he brings a passion to protect the resource to assure that future generations have as many fish to catch, consume and sell as today. He understands the concept of sustainable harvest and supports it without reservation. Finally, he has no agenda; he doesn't make his living by fishing. But while he is an avid sport fisherman, he also buys it in the winter and recognizes the importance of commercial fishing to the state and subsistence fishing to so many Alaskan residents. CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he had been to any Board of Fish meetings. MR. BROWN answered no. CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he had any concerns about fishing that he has thought about and how big was the biggest Nile perch he caught. 4:38:53 PM MR. BROWN replied his biggest Nile perch was 75 pounds; the longest Mongolian Timan he caught was 58 inches long. CHAIR HUGGINS asked how his name emerged out of all the Alaskans who are sportsmen. MR. BROWN replied if he was appointed he would replace Larry Edfeldt, a friend who has been on the board for a while. He had been working on him for some months to put his name in the hat. He likes the culture where the outdoors is so important and he doesn't want it to be abused or used up. He said he is looking forward to dealing with things that matter. CHAIR HUGGINS asked what he brings to the table. MR. BROWN answered the main thing he brings is the fact that he could look at all the user groups as equally important. While he is a sports fisherman, he knows many commercial fishermen and many of his friends are subsistence users; he buys fish in the winter. He said most of the decisions the board makes are allocation decisions and economics can lend a lot of insight into them. CHAIR HUGGINS noted that people are talking about having a member like him that get away from user groups and look just at the value of the commodity and see the importance of fish survival overall. SENATOR STEVENS said he thought Mr. Brown would be of value to the board and asked who would have his ear as he put together fish and game policies. MR. BROWN answered he would try his best to listen to everyone, but listen to the biological information from the department as well. At the meetings he would pay the most attention to changes of allocation and ask why they are happening. It would depend on the particular proposal. 4:44:57 PM BRUCE KNOWLES, representing himself, said he is chairman of the Susitna River Fish and Game Advisory Committee and that Mr. Brown has a lot of qualifications they look for in a board member. It seems he has the impartiality the board needs and he would be able to bring out the real value of a salmon in Alaska. 4:46:54 PM LINDA KOZAK, representing herself, Kodiak, endorsed all three - Mr. Brown, Mr. Jensen and Morris. She has seen them actively work with the department and industry to make the best decisions regardless of politics. SENATOR WAGONER asked if her proposals were considered sport, commercial or personal use. MS. KOZAK replied that she had two proposals for the King crab commercial fishery. 4:49:23 PM TOM LOGAN, representing himself from Big Lake, endorsed Mr. Brown. He objected to Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris because they support complete destruction of the northern fish stocks in the Valley. 4:50:43 PM RICKY GEASE, Executive Director, Kenai Sport Fishing Association, supported the appointments of Mr. Brown because he has lived in Alaska for many years and has a good economic background that could help out in all fisheries across the state. He also supported Mr. Morris and Mr. Jensen. CHAIR HUGGINS announced that Clem Tillion, former Alaska State Senator, joined the meeting. 4:53:33 PM REUBEN HANKE, representing himself from Soldotna, supported all three appointments to the Board of Fisheries. He said Mr. Brown's economic background would bring a new dimension to the board for all users. He supported reappointing Mr. Morris and Mr. Jensen for their third consecutive terms because they will help the board retain an incredible amount of fisheries knowledge - even though he didn't agree with some of the board's decisions. He said serving on this board is not an easy task and he thanked them for their service on it. 4:54:53 PM TOM KORMETIS, representing himself from Kodiak, supported all three appointees and Mr. Morris, in particular. He said he moved to Fairbanks in 1959 and is an avid sports fisherman and hunter. This is where he met Mr. Morris who he found to be fair and balanced. 4:57:00 PM STEVEN RUNYAN, Vice Chairman, Susitna Valley Advisory Committee, supported Mr. Brown's appointment saying "Fish are a state asset and the Board of Fish is charged with the distribution of this asset." However, he opposed the appointments of Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris. Their decisions have been outside the purview of both the sustainable salmon management policy and the northern district salmon management plan when it comes to managing the northern district fishery. He explained that at the last board meeting, they listed the Yetna and Susitna River sockeye salmon stocks as a yield concern and as directed by the sustainable salmon management policy they produced an action plan for the ADF&G's use. However, the plan is supposed to include fishery management actions needed to achieve rebuilding goals and objectives in proportion to each fishery's use of and hazards posed to a salmon stock. Despite the fact that the Central District's drift and set gill net fleets are the biggest harvesters of the sockeye in those drainages, these fisheries were not included in this action plan. He said under proposal 142 that asks to increase the northern district set fishing period on Chinook salmon, the ADF&G gave a conflicted report on the stock status of northern district Chinook. The Palmer area biologist stated that many of his monitoring systems were under-escaping for Kings and of the rest, only two were at a level that could sustain additional fishing. Soldotna area biologists testified that their counting methods were not very consistent and thought the report was bleaker than warranted. At that point, as chair of the board, Mr. Morris should have questioned the department further on this conflict. They ended up increasing the northern district's set net fishery for the same salmon stock by 66 percent for 2008 and by 33 percent for 2009/10. This is despite a flood in 2006 that according to biological reports completely wiped out the return. He concluded that Mr. Morris and Mr. Jensen have had six years to gather an understanding of sustainable salmon management policy and their rights and duties as members of the board, but they have failed to show an understanding of either. SENATOR WAGONER asked what figures he has on the early season commercial Chinook salmon that are destined for the northern district and the creel take once they reach the streams. MR. RUNYAN replied his information on northern district Chinook salmon harvest is RC 83, entitled "Deliberation Materials for Committees A, B and C" which was distributed at the February '08 Board of Fish meeting. 5:04:10 PM DREW SPARLIN, representing himself from Kenai, said he is president of the United Cook Inlet Drift Association, and has served on the Cook Inlet Aquaculture Association. He supported the reappointments of Mr. Morris and Mr. Jensen to the Alaska Board of Fisheries, even though he didn't always agree with their decisions. CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he is a charter member of the aquaculture association he served on. MR. SPARLIN replied yes. CHAIR HUGGINS asked him to give them a quick rundown of when it started and what its task is and what it has evolved to. MR. SPARLIN replied that it started in 1968 and has evolved into a lot of work; its principal effort now is to conduct weir counts in the northern district using an intern program of students from universities around the country. They count the adults going in and the smolts coming out. And there are problems in the northern district which no one denies. These problems need to be defined and corrections identified or they won't build any more fish in that system. 5:08:02 PM AL BURCH, Executive Director, Alaska Draggers Association, Kodiak, said he is also an avid sports and subsistence fisherman. He supported Mr. Morris and Mr. Jensen who bring a good historical memory to the board and they both make decisions in favor of the fish. He also supported Mr. Brown. 5:12:29 PM ANDY COUCH, representing himself from Matsu, supported Mr. Brown, but not Mr. Morris or Mr. Jensen, because they favor commercial users. 5:17:06 PM SENATOR WAGONER commented that people keep talking about commercial versus sport fishing. The basically has three commercial fishing representatives now and if Mr. Brown is put on, that will make four non commercial fishermen. So, this idea that the board is dominated by commercial fishing representatives who are making decisions that favor the commercial fishermen is not true. They are looking at good people who will do a good job, not whether they are commercial or sport fishermen. 5:18:44 PM JULIE BONNEY, representing herself from Kodiak, supported the reappointments of Mr. Morris and Mr. Jensen. She didn't know Mr. Brown, but he seemed like someone who is knowledgeable and would bring a new dimension to the board and thought he should be given a chance. She said she comes from an avid fishing family and married into a fourth generation processing family. The primary goal should be to take care of the fish and managers should be given the tools to manage for sustainability. 5:21:55 PM ROD ARNO, Executive Director, Alaska Outdoor Council, supported Mr. Brown's appointment to the board. He said the Council looks for three qualities in the board members - one is that the person is a fisherman and a consumptive user, second that conservation is important, and third that he has no agenda. 5:23:33 PM JULIANNE CURRY, representing herself from Petersburg, said she is an active commercial fisherman and supported the reappointment of Mr. Jensen to the Board of Fisheries. He has extensive fishing experience and a broad knowledge base that make him an asset on the board. 5:24:06 PM ROBERT HAIANO, representing himself from Bristol Bay, said a majority of his fishing activities come from commercial fishing activities. He supported the reappointments of Mr. Morris and Mr. Jensen to the board because they do their homework during and before meetings. They also make a lot of time available to the public, which is cornerstone to the process. They have a vast amount of knowledge of federal fisheries that is important to state fisheries management. He also supported Mr. Brown because he has good qualifications to be a board member. 5:28:07 PM CLEM TILLION said he represented the Aleutian Island Corporation from Halibut Cove and supported all three nominees. He said people might be surprised at this since they just "mopped the floor" with him at the last board meeting. He didn't get anything he asked for, but on the other hand, these men are qualified and he couldn't ask for more than that. He said "There's gonna be some hard decisions to be made by everybody to get an increased amount of Kings in the upper Inlet." 5:30:46 PM SENATOR STEVENS said he always appreciates Mr. Tillion's advice because he always takes the big view of Alaska fish. 5:32:41 PM CHAIR HUGGINS thanked Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris for their volunteering and found no further questions for Mr. Brown. SENATOR STEVENS moved to forward Mr. Brown's name to the full body for confirmation. There were no objections and it was so ordered. CHAIR HUGGINS said in accordance with AS 39.05.080 the Resources Committee reviewed and recommends the appointment of Mr. Brown be forwarded to a joint session. This does not reflect any intent by any of the members to vote for or against him. There being no further business to come before the committee, he adjourned the meeting at 5:33:31 PM.