SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE March 24, 1999 3:15 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Rick Halford, Chairman Senator Robin Taylor, Vice Chairman Senator Pete Kelly Senator Jerry Mackie Senator Lyda Green Senator Georgianna Lincoln MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Sean Parnell COMMITTEE CALENDAR Confirmation Hearings: Board of Game - Greg Roczicka, Mike Fleagle, Greg Streveler ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 99-16, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to order at 3:15 p.m. and announced that the Committee would consider Board of Game confirmation hearings. MR. GREG STREVELER, Gustavus, said he has been on the Board for two years and feels like he is just getting to be a half way decent Board member. They are dealing with some important issues and he wants to continue to contribute. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what he saw as the toughest issues in the next two years. MR. STREVELER answered the resolution of subsistence and the degree to which urban and rural people are in conflict over resource uses. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what happened to the proposal on Unit 13 bear season. MR. STREVELER explained that throughout the week the Board was getting testimony about the accumulating dire situation for moose in Unit 13. There was very good biological information suggesting that the female adult component of moose was getting older and older and they weren't being replaced at the proper rate due to predation, fundamentally by brown bears. The Board felt it was important to be proactive, but couldn't' agree at first on how to deal with it. At first, he voted against same day aerial hunting of bears, because although it had merit, the public wouldn't accept it. So they decided to get more public input before acting. CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he basically agreed with that position, because there wouldn't have been sufficient bears taken compared to all the flack they would have had to take for doing it. He thought bears could be "harassed" more effectively during the time when they are specializing on killing calf moose. MR. STREVELER said they have to get another look at the whole bear situation. If they are going to reduce bears in Unit 13, they have already liberalized the season a whole lot and it hasn't seemed to touch the bear population. Biologists seems to be coming to the conclusion that you are going to have to start taking down the female part of the population and there is tremendous public sentiment against that. We can't get too far ahead of the public on this and expect to get anywhere. CHAIRMAN HALFORD responded that he didn't disagree and asked since the Board chose not to set population and harvest levels in areas identified for intensive management, had they requested the data base from the Department. MR. STREVELER answered they didn't at that meeting, because they had set out a phased procedure and wanted to give the public plenty of notice to be able to come to the Board with their ideas. The Board wanted to use this interim to set out the populations that were going to be targeted for high levels of consumptive use. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked how good the Department had been in terms of providing information to cooperative with that harvest level effort. MR. STREVELER answered that they had been very helpful. Number 140 SENATOR MACKIE said he is concerned with the continued use of our fish and game resources in Glacier Bay National Park and noted that Mr. Streveler had been a contractor in the Park to the Southeast Alaska Conservation Council to characterize the industry and advise on issues related to Glacier Bay commercial fishing. He asked how he viewed the continued use of both commercial and subsistence resources within the Park. MR. STREVELER explained the contract he had was with SEAC to be a biological advisor to Bart Kohler when he was part of the negotiating team. He took it on, because he respected the way Mr. Kohler was going about it, trying to interject the conservationist point of view, but also trying to come from the standpoint that fishing was not a conflicted use. Now he is real discouraged at the way the whole thing has shaken out. The local group had been within striking distance of coming up with something everyone could live with pretty well and he was sad when it all blew up. SENATOR MACKIE said the problems in the Park that directly affect his constituency come from the Park Service and the conservation movement and his resume says he has worked for both. Most people in the Legislature feel that the Bay should continue to be managed for the resource users. MR. STREVELER said he agreed and worked towards that goal with Bart whose solution kept the vast majority of the Bay open to fishing. SENATOR MACKIE asked if he foresaw the Board of Game having to deal with any of those types of issues down the road. He wanted to support people who have a very pro State of Alaska management philosophy and are willing to make the difficult decisions to continue to do that. MR. STREVELER said he quit the Park Service in 1980 because he was pretty tired of the way the feds were doing that. He has always tried to look out for local people and see that they aren't brushed aside by federal policies. Number 200 SENATOR LINCOLN said it looks like he's involved in a lot of educational training and asked how his attendance had been at the Board of Game. MR. STREVELER answered that he had been to every meeting. SENATOR MACKIE asked if he had any suggestions on how to deal with the Park situation. MR. STREVELER answered that it is a real eye opener to compare the way ADF&G and the Park Service deal with people. He didn't have any quick fixes to suggest. The biggest problem is the rate of turnover in the Park staff and you're always dealing with someone new. CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked Mr. Streveler and announced that Mr. Mike Fleagle would testify. MR. FLEAGLE, McGrath, said it has been a pleasure to serve his first term on the Board and wanted their support once again. There are many difficult issues like the initiative that just passed to ban same day aerial hunting of wolves and elimination of snares. They are faced with the challenge of an administration that is unwilling to allow any lethal population control of wolves and an increasing pressure applied by a small, but very vocal, segment of the public to restrict further take. He fully supported any means of combating this run on the ballot box for the management of game resources. He felt that a constitutional amendment protecting the rights of hunters, fishers, and trappers was in order as other states are doing. Good ungulate management includes predator management and he has been an advocate of an increased harvest of wolves for through any means available including state sponsored programs. He does not agree with the nonlethal program being used on the Forty Mile wolves. MR. FLEAGLE said he carefully considers all issues, votes according to his heart, and is not concerned with the political fall-out. He has been a fair and reasonable voice on the Board and would like to continue his service to the State and its people. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked him to comment with regard to identifying population and harvest targets for intensive game management on the progress they have made and on the level of support the Board received from the Department in doing that. MR. FLEAGLE responded that the new intensive management law has been fairly complex, although the intent was simple. The Board spent the first portion of its cycle trying to identify the populations. They move around on a regional cycle and deal with different areas of the state at different times. As the populations are defined, they are leaving the harvest and populations objective numbers to be determined through the public process. The Board has found that the Department has been very helpful in the implementation of the intensive management. CHAIRMAN HALFORD said it didn't seem like we have either population objectives or harvest objectives in a lot of the areas where there are literally decades of data base from the ADF&G. He asked why they never got to that point. MR. FLEAGLE assured him that the Board was frustrated, too. They have adopted a schedule that would first of all identify all the populations that meet the requirements in the state and then they would go to the public with the population and harvest numbers. He didn't see how they could follow the law and go any faster. CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he appreciated their efforts to speed up the process. SENATOR LINCOLN asked what he thought the major concerns were for the Board of Game. MR. FLAEGLE answered the number one issue was the state and federal government resolving the subsistence debate so that our fish and game resources are returned to the State. He wanted to stay out of the politics of how that is accomplished, but the dual management system would continue to get more and more cumbersome. His second concern is with the urban versus rural user conflicts. Their underlying theme is that they don't really want to keep other people out, but the numbers they come in are overwhelming to compete for the resource. He also thought they needed to get a handle on the wildlife management by ballot initiative. He supported the resolutions that would change the composition of the ballot initiative signatures. He thought this would be their biggest challenge. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if he had any suggestion in how to handle predator populations when the effect means of harvest are eliminated by initiative. MR. FLAEGLE said he did, although it might not be acceptable to the people who want to stop wolf harvest. He supported Senator Kelly's bill overturning certain portions of the same day air borne act and thought they should stop the efforts to take away preventative measures like snaring. A third thing, if the State is willing, is to go into rural areas and hold wolf trapping symposiums which has been effective in his area. There were no further questions. CHAIRMAN HALFORD invited Mr. Greg Roczicka to testify next. MR. ROCZICKA, Bethel, said he is proud to be a member of the Board of Game and that they receive many compliments on the way the conduct the public process. SENATOR TAYLOR asked how long he had served. MR. ROCZICKA answered about one year. SENATOR TAYLOR said that during that time the number of tags allowed for the Etolin Island elk population has gone from 29 to a proposal for this year of 75. MR. ROCZICKA said that the elk population is doing well in that area. SENATOR TAYLOR said he was concerned that the Board had been given faulty information regarding competition on habitat between Sitka black tail deer and elk. In fact, he requested the lab work and field notes on that subject and never received them. As far as he could tell, the study had never been completed with no final report being issued. If the 75 number is based on the competition theory, he wanted the Board to inquire of the Department about what they believe to be the carrying capacity of the islands and areas impacted by their alleged competition. Everyone ducks that question when he asks it, because Southeast Alaska never achieves carrying capacity on Sitka black tail deer because of winter kill and wolves. Yet, the Department wants to say the elk are out there eating the poor little deer out of house and home. In fact, they are going to die by wolf or winter kill whether the elk are there or not. He thought the information might be suspect and that people offering it to him from within the Department have an agenda. MR. ROCZICKA said he could appreciate that view. He said, however, there was always going to be criticisms. SENATOR TAYLOR said he respected the Board's work, but he has a concern about a dramatic expansion of the permitting process. He would rather see it go up five or 10 permits per year over an extended period of time. Until there is some biological information indicating we should be reducing the growth of that herd, he would appreciate it if they didn't entertain further requests for additional permits for additional hunting on that population for another five years. MR. ROCZICKA responded that the basis for his decision was that the herd was very healthy and could sustain the harvest. SENATOR TAYLOR asked him to be very careful with future decisions, because he didn't know that the population was as strong as the Department is indicating. A B.C. study indicates that deer and elk may have a symbiotic relationship that enhances both and he hoped they would call him for the information if the question comes up before the Board. MR. ROCZICKA indicted he would be happy to do that. SENATOR LINCOLN asked what issues he thought were going to be major concerns for the Board in the next few years. MR. ROCZICKA answered that the subsistence issue has to be resolved, because a lot of harvestable populations are going totally to subsistence users. Something needs to be done to allow the Board some latitude to provide some level of use for different interests. CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked all three for appearing before the committee. SENATOR TAYLOR moved to send the standard letter of nonobjection to the presiding officer. There were no objections and it was so ordered. CHAIRMAN HALFORD adjourned the meeting at 3:55 p.m.