SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE February 8, 1999 3:05 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Rick Halford, Chairman Senator Robin Taylor, Vice Chairman Senator Pete Kelly Senator Jerry Mackie Senator Lyda Green Senator Sean Parnell Senator Georgianna Lincoln MEMBERS ABSENT All members present COMMITTEE CALENDAR SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 2 Relating to management of Alaska's wildlife and fish resources. -MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION SCR 2 - No previous action to consider. WITNESS REGISTER Ms. Mel Korgseng, Staff Senator Taylor State Capitol Bldg. Juneau, AK 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SCR 2 for Senator Taylor, sponsor. Mr. Wayne Regelin, Director Division of Wildlife Conservation Alaska Department of Fish and Game P.O. Box 25526 Juneau, AK 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SCR 2. Mr. Brett Huber, Staff Senator Halford State Capitol Bldg. Juneau, AK 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SCR 2. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 99-8, SIDE A Number 001 SCR 2-MANAGEMENT OF FISH & WILDLIFE CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to order at 3:05 p.m. and announced SCR 2 to be up for discussion. SENATOR TAYLOR stated that this is the same resolution that's been before the Committee for the past several years and it involves the question of whether or not we are going to manage resources for abundance or for scarcity in Alaska. MS. MEL KROGSENG, Staff to Senator Taylor, briefly reviewed the bill. She said it is intended to send a strong message to the Governor, the Board of Fisheries, the Board of Game, and the Department of Fish and Game that the Legislature wants the wildlife and fish resources of this State to be aggressively managed biologically on a sustained yield basis for abundance. Over the past few years there has been a decline in several of our wildlife and fish stocks in several areas of the State. It appears that the Department has not managed for proper escapement levels. SENATOR LINCOLN asked Senator Halford why he wrote the fiscal note for this resolution. MR. BRETT HUBER, Committee Aide, explained that it is the policy of the Administration regarding resolutions to ask the committees to write fiscal notes stating there are no proposed impacts on State agencies. MR. WAYNE REGELIN, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, explained that a resolution expresses the will of the Senate and wouldn't have any fiscal impact on the Department. They know very clearly how the Legislature would like wildlife to be managed. SENATOR TAYLOR asked how passing this legislation would change management protocols or schemes. MR. REGELIN answered that it would be beneficial to review the actions of what the Board of Game and ADF&G have been doing in the areas of intensive management since the first law was passed in 1994 for the purpose of restoring abundance and productivity of "identified big game populations." That law required the Board of Game to identify populations for intensive management where consumptive use was a preferred use and where depleted or reduced productivity had occurred and where enhancement was feasibly achievable utilizing recognized and prudent actions. The Board was not allowed to change or reduce seasons or bag limits or to reduce the harvest on a population that had been identified for intensive management unless the Board adopted regulations to implement intensive management. Provisions in the statute said that intensive management wouldn't be applied if the Board of Game determined that actions would be ineffective based on science, inappropriate based on land ownership, or against subsistence interests. The Board really struggled with trying to implement this law before ADF&G recommended that the Board take a comprehensive approach and review all big game prey populations to determining whether or not they should be included on the intensive management list. This has been completed in Regions 3 and 1 and will be done in Region 2 this coming March. Once that is done, the Department will establish harvest objectives for each of the identified populations by working with the local fish and game advisory committees. He didn't think that anyone had intentionally ignored the law, but they have learned if you try to move real fast in the area of managing predators, it doesn't work because public reaction will stop them. Number 214 CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if anything slow worked. MR. REGELIN answered that a couple programs are working very well. An example is the Fortymile caribou herd where a new predator management program of sterilizing the alpha male and female wolves of each pack and relocating the other wolves to other areas is being successfully used. There is an increase of about 30 percent in the caribou population in the first year. He explained that they ended up with sterilized wolves in five packs who didn't reproduce, but maintained their territories. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked how they determine which two to sterilize. MR. REGELIN answered that biologists have a lot of experience at identifying the alpha males and females. He said that predation on both the calves and adults during the winter was significantly reduced. He thought the herd was increasing from 25,000 to 200,000. Number 250 CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what was happening to the Mat-Su program to eliminate lice on wolves. MR. REGELIN explained that it is something they would have preferred not to try. In 1981 there was a louse infestation on the Kenai. It was found first in two packs and nothing was done, but in two years it was in all 21 packs on the Kenai and it still is today. Their pelts are useless, the wolves suffer, they look bad, and they smell terrible, and they probably die in larger numbers. He said the caribou and moose populations on the Kenai have both increased and the wolf population has not increased. Pup mortality might be higher because they lose so much hair, they die when it gets real cold. MR. REGELIN said lice were found in the Mat-Su Valley on two wolves. Afterwards, it was found that out of thirteen packs, three were infected with lice and the rest were lice-free. Number 270 SENATOR PETE KELLY asked if there was a connection between the Mat- Su wolves and the Kenai wolves. MR. REGELIN answered that it is the same species of lice, but he didn't think there was movement between the areas. All of the packs who have it are along the road system where they know of dog kennels that have lice. They assume that's where it came from. He said a drug is used to treat the wolves who remain lice-free for six months. Of the 28 wolves in Mat-Su, 27 have been treated and the last one will get treated when the weather breaks. He said the lice situation has a big impact on fur-bearer and ungulate management, because if their hides are of no value, people don't trap. Last year 300 fewer wolves were killed than in the previous year. SENATOR TAYLOR said he thought the Fortymile caribou herd was recovering because 186 wolves were taken three years ago and over 100 taken two years ago. They didn't start sterilizing until last year. He asked Mr. Regelin for the costs associated with the lice program. His position is that he wants the Department to get rid of every wolf they can find. Back in the old days every method was used to get rid of wolves, Senator Taylor said, and they had an abundance of wildlife that has not occurred in this State since we have a good, healthy ungulate population. He asked why the Department took so long to implement the 1994 law. MR. REGELIN responded by giving credit to all the help they got from the trappers who took a lot of wolves out of the Fortymile caribou herd area. They continue to work with those trappers and encourage them to trap in the areas except where the sterilized wolves are located. Some trappers are not happy with the sterilization program, because they make money from trapping wolves. The bottom line, he said, is that the numbers are up and predation was down on both the calves and the adults over the winter. Wolves were moved to the Kenai and two other locations as part of the Fortymile program. They wanted to see whether or not wolves from different areas were susceptible to getting the lice because of a different genetic structure. They have tested the drug and know that it works for at least six months. The cost of the Mat-Su program was $50,000. The reason they did the lice program is because it has tremendous ramifications on ungulate management throughout units 13, 14, 16, and possibly 20. If the disease spreads, and based on information from the Kenai it will, it will spread in relatively short order. If the wolves have no value to the trapper, they won't trap them. So he thinks it was a valuable program. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked him to explain the significance to ungulate management. Number 400 MR. REGELIN explained that in unit 13 and a few other areas of the State, trappers have the ability to regulate the wolf populations. In many other areas there just aren't enough trappers and access. In units 13, 14, and 16 where there are roads and more people, they can harvest enough wolves to keep the populations regulated at a number that doesn't have a major impact on the caribou. SENATOR KELLY asked how widespread the lice problem was in the Mat- Su. MR. REGELIN answered that lice were found in three packs and they have handled 13 packs. All the packs that had it were across the Parks Highway. SENATOR KELLY asked if the Department has the ability to just kill the wolves that are infested. MR. REGELIN replied yes, and that they still might have to kill the last one. They still try to treat them, because it doesn't cost much more. SENATOR KELLY asked how long the treatment takes. MR. REGELIN answered that the lice are all dead within 24 hours of treatment. The host animal is free of lice for the next six months. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what a wolf hide is worth now. MR REGELIN replied $210. SENATOR LINCOLN asked what prevents the treated wolves from getting reinfected again. MR. REGELIN said their hope is that when the 28th wolf is caught and treated that there will be no wolves infested with lice. They know that there have been lice on the dogs in the kennels along the road, but they think the transmission from dogs to wolves is pretty rare. There is no guarantee. SENATOR LINCOLN asked if the lice could be transferred to other species of animals like moose or caribou. MR. REGELIN replied that this particular louse has the dog for its primary host. The only other species it can be transferred to are coyotes and wolves. Number 430 SENATOR LINCOLN asked what it means if the wolves get it again. MR. REGELIN replied that they think it's uncommon and they are starting to work with the dog owners up there to try to convince them that it's in their best interest to treat their dogs. If there is a reinfection next year that's even wider spread, it means there's nothing they can do about it and, like in the Kenai, there will be a lot of wolves whose hides would have no value. SENATOR KELLY said they could then just go out and kill them all. MR. REGELIN responded that he didn't think the public would allow them to do that. He added that the reason it's taking them five years to do this is because the Board of Game is responsible for doing a lot of this, although the Department helps them as much as they can. The Board only meets twice a year and on a schedule where every other year they take things up. The first two years they got a "false start." What they are doing now has a better chance of success. SENATOR TAYLOR suggested shampooing, if the shots don't work. He said that the Department was given $800,000 to spend on intensive game management and they didn't spend a single dime on it. Instead they sent it off to the Division of Habitat. Number 480 SENATOR LINCOLN asked if we are to go from "passive management" to mandatory "aggressive management" with a $0 fiscal note. MR. REGELIN answered that he believed so. They have an operating budget of $15.5 million and if they are authorized to do intensive management, they can only do it in two or three places because of staff. He wouldn't ask the Legislature for additional funds. He said it's good biology to go out and assess the stocks so you can harvest them appropriately. SENATOR TAYLOR asked if the assessment they are doing now is different than what they have been doing every year. MR. REGELIN answered that they try to spend the same amount on assessment, survey, and inventory each year. They do a population census of the caribou herds every other year. They supplement that each year with composition data so they can understand productivity data, production and mortality rates. They do a very good job of it. You can't do management without knowing what the stocks are, he concluded. Number 522 SENATOR TAYLOR asked what they are going to do about bear predation. MR. REGELIN replied that it depends on the area. In some areas, wolves are the problem; in other areas, bears are the problem; and some areas have no problems. In areas like 20 D and unit 13 where there are big bear problems, they have liberalized harvest through seasons and bag limits. They have removed the $25 tag fee and have gone to one bear every year and long seasons. The harvest last year was about 300 grizzly bears. They are still not harvesting enough bears in unit 13 to meet the management objectives, but he doubted they could go to two bears a year. It's not the main place that people go to hunt grizzly bears. He didn't think it was "in the cards" to do bear control. SENATOR TAYLOR said an aggressive approach would be to offer a bounty or a reward for bears or start shooting them from planes. MR. REGELIN responded that they started liberalizing seasons on grizzly bears about three years ago and he thought it would be extremely foolish to say after two years that they know all the answers and would just start killing grizzly bears out of airplanes. He thought that would be a total fiasco and he wouldn't be part of it. Number 554 SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass SCR 2 from committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered. CHAIRMAN HALFORD adjourned the meeting at 3:50 p.m.