SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE March 12, 1997 3:45 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Rick Halford, Chairman Senator Lyda Green, Vice Chairman Senator Loren Leman Senator Bert Sharp Senator Robin Taylor Senator Georgianna Lincoln Senator John Torgerson MEMBERS ABSENT All members present COMMITTEE CALENDAR Confirmation Hearings Board of Game Mr. Gregory Streveler P.O. Box 94 Gustavus, AK 99826 Mr. Michael Fleagle P.O. Box 33 McGrath, AK 99627 Ms. Lori Quakenbush P.O. Box 82391 Fairbanks, AK 99708 Ms. Nicole Whittington-Evans HC02 Box 7019A Palmer, AK 99645 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 97-18, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to order at 3:45 p.m. and said they would take up the confirmation hearings for the Board of Game. MR. GREGORY STREVELER said he had lived in Gustavus for 30 years and his interest in the Board of Game started a few years ago when he was asked by two former members if he wanted to throw his name in the hat. He is willing to serve, he said, and he'd do his darndest, if they confirm him. He has a long history as a hunter, is trained and has worked as a biologist, and has been a private consultant and teacher. He said he is a good listener and he thinks he can bring that to the Board and find solutions that everyone can live with. He picked subsistence, predators, and Board of Game functions as examples of how he thinks to discuss with the Committee. He said he has watched how State prerogatives have been eroded by what has gone on in the context of subsistence. He has come to the conclusion that for other reasons, as well, we have to come to grips with this issue. The way they have been dealing with it up to now seems to have come to a dead-end. He said he is a supporter of the State Constitution, but he would look at changing it as a last resort when putting everything on the table. Number 111 CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked him if he believed the last person to lose access to a wild food resource should be the person who needs it to eat. MR. STREVELOR replied absolutely. Regarding predators, he said, it doesn't make biological sense to manage prey and not manage predators. He believes there are times when we have to manage wolves. He said one area this is warranted is the McGrath moose situation where there is a serious imbalance. He said he would be willing to look at innovations regarding predator control. He said he has lived surrounded by a national park for 30 years and is sensitive to the rights of public access. He thought he could bring a real honest attempt to the Board of Game to accommodate legitimate uses. MR. STREVELOR said one of the biggest unresolved dilemmas for him as a Board member is how do you square public sentiment on one hand with biological data on the other if they bring you to different conclusions. Number 179 SENATOR LEMAN asked when he worked for Representative Peter Goll. MR. STREVELOR replied that he filled in for someone for six weeks. SENATOR LEMAN asked if he thought the same as Representative Goll on wildlife issues. He replied that they agreed and disagreed and asked if there was anything specific. SENATOR LEMAN asked if, as a teacher, he developed his own curriculum. He replied that he developed his own. SENATOR LEMAN gave him a letter from Mr. Peter Shepherd opposing his confirmation and asked him if he wanted to respond to it. His opposition was based on the premise that he is ideologically aligned with the biocentrist belief that man should keep his hands off of natural systems. MR. STREVELOR said that didn't reflect his views at all. He didn't see how human beings could live and use a wildlife resource and not manipulate it. SENATOR SHARP said he spoke with Mr. Strevelor earlier and he had satisfied a lot of his questions then. SENATOR LINCOLN said she applauded him for wanting to be on this Board. She wanted to give him the opportunity to respond to anything in the newspaper that might be incorrect about him. She noted that he would not qualify for this position if there was a law stating he had to have a hunting or trapping license for five of the last seven years. MR. STREVELOR noted that had been corrected and he has had a hunting license for the last seven years straight. He said he wanted to clarify, also, that he is not "pro fed" although he has worked for the Park Service. He worked for them for 13 years and the reason he decided to quit was an evolving unease with the way they related to local people. SENATOR SHARP read the definition of "game" from Webster's Second Edition New World Dictionary as "wild birds or animals hunted for sport or for use as food." He said that's what he thinks the responsibility of the Board of Game is. MR. STREVELOR said he felt in all honesty that they have a broader mandate than just that. SENATOR SHARP noted that the wolf sterilization program was performed on just six pairs and it is being done in conjunction with a severe wolf reduction program. He wondered how they correlated the two programs and applauded them for trying a new technique. Number 331 SENATOR MACKIE said he supported Mr. Strevelor's confirmation, because he has an ability to be open minded and has a good science background. He noted in particular his work with Glacier Bay National Park and keeping commercial fisheries there and in the McGrath area where there is a 10 to 1 moose to wolf population where it actually takes 30 - 40 to 1 wolf ratio in order to have that herd sustain itself. CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked Mr. Strevelor for his comments and announced Mr. Michael Fleagle would come before the Committee. MR. MICHAEL FLEAGLE said he been McGrath for 17 or 18 years and has been a life time rural Alaska resident and as such he understands the importance of maintaining a healthy population of fish and game resources for all Alaskans' use, particularly those residing in the remote areas and who rely on the resource as a primary food source. He believes in responsible predator management to maintain the proper balance in our predator to prey ratios. Our State resource managers have been able to accomplish this for over 35 years with the private citizens being among the best of these managers until the recent move to restrict harvest methods of predators. He strongly believes in the public process system currently in place to achieve these goals. He would like to see the State resume responsibility for all fish and game management on all lands in Alaska. He is opposed to game management by referendum or public opinion from outside of Alaska and feels all efforts should be made to return management duties to this State. We need to rely more on the experience, oral traditions, and sound advice of people who live in areas that will be affected by regulation changes. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked him what he thought would be the most effective method, biologically and economically, of reducing wolf populations in areas where there's obviously an overpopulation in relation to prey species. MR.FLAEGLE replied that the most efficient, cost effective, bringing the most benefit to most people method is to allow the public to again take these wolves through same-day airborne land and shoot practices which is not possible currently. The next best choice would be to use the public through public information trapping seminars such as what's happening in the 40 Mile area. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if he would support or oppose a proposal to outlaw private incentives for wolf harvest. MR. FLAEGLE responded that he opposed any such proposal. The program going on with the Alaska Trappers Association with the 40 Mile wolf reduction is a great incentive because it benefits everybody. SENATOR SHARP asked what he would do if a Federal Subsistence Advisory Board requested the Board of Game to shut down an area to general access by all Alaskans if the ADF&G had not established a biological problem. MR. FLAEGLE replied that that would be outside of the Board's jurisdiction to do that, as they are mandated to manage the resources based on biological reasons. CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked Mr. Flaegle for his comments and announced that Ms. Lori Quakenbush would come before the Committee. MS. LORI QUAKENBUSH reviewed her resume' for the Committee. She said she believes she has a good background for serving on the Board. She is interested in the work it does as a 24-year Alaska resident, as a hunter, and as a biologist. She believes one of her roles would be to evaluate scientific information, the public testimony, and make the best decisions she can for the resource and the people of Alaska. SENATOR TAYLOR asked for whom she had worked in Southeast Alaska. MS. QUAKENBUSH replied that she had worked briefly in Sitka, basically helping out with some humpback whale tagging work as a volunteer. She doesn't have any other work experience in Southeast; Kodiak would be the closest where she worked for ADF&G. SENATOR LEMAN asked what the disturbance was to the ringed seals she did published research on. MS. QUAKENBUSH replied that at the time they were looking at possible disturbance by off-shore seismic activity as a result of oil exploration and development in the Beaufort Sea and Kotzebue Sound. SENATOR LEMAN asked her to clarify her position on incompatible uses. MS. QUAKENBUSH replied that the statement in her resume' was a general statement, but she feels strongly that there are a lot of hunters who also partake in nonconsumptive uses of the resource. As a hunter, she does a lot of wildlife watching and talks to a lot of hunters who enjoy taking their family and their kids places to view wildlife that doesn't include hunting. SENATOR LEMAN commended her for writing so many papers and said he would like to read some of them. SENATOR SHARP noted that most of her research was on sea mammals which the State has no management control over. He asked if her wildlife degree focused more on sea critters. MS. QUAKENBUSH replied that her Bachelor's Degree in Wildlife Management focused on game management and terrestrial animals and birds. Her Masters work was in biology and some of the focus of that was on marine species. Number 502 SENATOR LINCOLN noted that Ms. Quakenbush did not hold a license in '93 and '94 and would not qualify if legislation passed requiring a hunting license for five-years prior and asked her to explain why she didn't have a license then. MS. QUAKENBUSH explained that she had a license in 1989 and was lucky enough to get drawn for a sheep permit that year and she went sheep hunting while she was pregnant. In 1990 she had a baby and in 1991 she had an infant so she didn't buy a license in either of those years. She bought one in 1992, but not in 1993 or 94 because she was raising her son and it was difficult to get out. She has had a hunting license in 1995 and 96 and has one now in 97. SENATOR LINCOLN asked if she believed one must kill game in order to be a good Board member. MS. QUAKENBUSH said that shouldn't be a requirement and there are lots of good people who live in Alaska who don't hunt and who have good experiences that would serve the Board well. MS. QUAKENBUSH said she thought predator control is a tool that can be used by wildlife managers in certain situations. She didn't see it as a panacea and it wouldn't work in every case. She thought it should be used carefully. SENATOR TAYLOR asked her to comment on the McGrath 19C effort to enhance predator control. MS. QUAKENBUSH said that situation was certainly one where predator control could be used effectively. She thought they should carefully watch the prey population they are trying to increase, because some areas won't support more moose no matter how much predator control you do. SENATOR TAYLOR asked her if she supported a management scheme which would result in abundance of both ungulate population and their predator species. MS. QUAKENBUSH replied she would definitely support that. SENATOR TAYLOR asked if she would make certain a predator pit problem was addressed if it was, in fact, the problem. He noted that he had been in one valley and recorded 250 moose annually every single fall and he was in the valley this fall and in the same period of time he saw 28. He did not see a single yearling animal nor a single calf in an 11-day period and there were plenty of predators around. MS. QUAKENBUSH said she personally would like to look carefully at the habitat because it could still undergo succession and late successional stages are less productive for moose habitat. SENATOR TAYLOR asked if she was familiar with what methods ADF&G uses for predator or prey populations in given areas. MS. QUAKENBUSH replied yes. SENATOR TAYLOR asked if she thought they were scientifically accurate. MS. QUAKENBUSH replied she didn't know if accurate was a good term, but the results were a balance between the amount of time and the technique used. They are adequate in some situations; in others it's just the best they can do. Number 570 CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what kinds of predator control would she consider justified within the bounds of biological efficiency and economic cost. MS. QUAKENBUSH replied they would consider what the public thinks, what exactly the funding is, what the situation is, and it's accessibility. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if there were any methods she thought were totally unacceptable. MS. QUAKENBUSH said she didn't believe there were any methods that were unacceptable, but she knows that there are people who do and she needs to listen to those people. SENATOR SHARP said the area of 19C had seen considerable ADF&G studies, both of moose and wolf surveys and have established in the last three years the fact that the moose population per square mile is the lowest ever recorded on the North American Continent and the wolf/moose ratio is one of the highest ever recorded - eight times higher than what seemed prudent to the biologist to allow the herd to recover. The Department recommended intensive predator reduction and commissioned a $40,000.... TAPE 97-18, SIDE B allowing the Division of Subsistence to go out and do a survey of the residents and over 80% wanted aggressive predator control immediately. Some respondents thought something should be done and very few thought nothing should be done. He asked with that scenario if she thought it would be prudent to address the predator problem in an aggressive manner. MS. QUAKENBUSH said that there was another component of the public that wasn't considered in this scenario and it would depend on that somewhat, as well. SENATOR SHARP asked if that was the Anchorage population, the non-users. MS. QUAKENBUSH said she thought the non-users of the resources of Alaska should have a voice as well. SENATOR LINCOLN followed up saying that she thought Ms. Quakenbush meant what they would want every Board member to do, regardless of what Board they serve on, which is listen to all sides of the public. MS. QUAKENBUSH replied that was correct. SENATOR TAYLOR remarked that all of the costs and expenses of this Board and all the protocols they recommend to the Department are paid for by that consumptive user group and it sounded like she said if all the biology information indicated that predators were a problem, she would disregard what she believed to be appropriate biological treatment for a herd and instead would leave it up to whomever wrote the most letters from outside the area. MS. QUAKENBUSH responded that she didn't say that at all; she said she would weigh the biology heavily and it would also be her responsibility to listen to what the local people had to say, and would also listen to other people who have an opinion on this issue. She wouldn't check first to see if they have hunting licenses or not. He asked her what role the overall public opinion plays in her process of making a decision. She replied if there is public testimony that is overwhelmingly negative for some action the Board might want to take, they could look at possible creative solutions to make things work better for both sides. SENATOR TAYLOR said he had a hard time understanding what one of those consensus building, let's make everybody happy kind of things might be, because he foresaw her facing difficult decisions in the future. He used the example of leaving her in charge of his cowherd for 10 years and coming back to find that wolves or disease had decimated his herd and each time it happened she had held a public hearing to decide whether or not all the neighbors liked whatever treatment she was proposing. He thought if he came back, he might "can" her and find a biologist to run the herd. MS. QUAKENBUSH said she didn't think she should could make her position clearer. She said she saw her role on the Board was to evaluate the scientific information and the public testimony and make the best decision she can for the resource and the people of Alaska. Number 512 SENATOR LINCOLN read to them how Board members are selected. "It says the Governor shall appoint each member on the basis of interest in public affairs, good judgement, knowledge, and ability in the field of action of the Board with a view to providing diversity of interests and points of view in the membership." What she hears very clearly from Ms. Quakenbush is that she is going to listen to all of the biological data and testimony that the general public has a right to provide the Board. Then, based on all of that, and the debate amongst the Board, make a decision. SENATOR SHARP asked if she would try to separate Alaskan's testimony and non-Alaskan's testimony. MS. QUAKENBUSH replied she would certainly weigh that. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if there were no federal or State law on the books dealing with subsistence, what would a law she write on that issue say. MS. QUAKENBUSH said she didn't think that question was relative to her position on the Board. She said she would work under the existing Constitution and the existing laws as written now. SENATOR LEMAN suggested she call Jim Reardon in Homer, a former member of the Board and talk to him how he dealt with it on the Board. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if she thought the 1980 legislation on ANILCA was positive or negative in terms of the overall status of Alaskan game harvest, use, and management. MS. QUAKENBUSH replied that she thought it was positive. CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked her for her testimony and announced Ms. Nicole Whittington-Evans to come before the Committee. Number 353 MS. NICOLE WHITTINGTON-EVANS said she is interested in serving on the Board of Game because of her knowledge and background in conservation, recreation, and tourism and her ability to apply this experience to help resolve wildlife policy issues. She is a consensus builder and works constructively as a team member. Like the majority of Alaskans, she does not hunt, but does not oppose hunting. Like most people in Alaska she cares about wildlife. Her participation in the Board process will broaden the diversity currently reflected on the Board, and diversity in the long run is helpful to the Board. She said she started working in Alaska in the 1980s as a wilderness guide. Since moving to Alaska permanently five years ago, she has worked hard on wildlife issues, both in the conservation community and as a member of the Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee which unanimously supported her appointment to the Board of Game. As a non-hunter she works constructively to take into account all information before them regarding the issues. She said her participation helped elevate the Committee's level of credibility with the broad percentage of the public. As a board member of the Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association she recognizes that tourism is not only a growing part of our economy, but that tourism and Alaskans, whose jobs depend on tourism, should be included in the State's wildlife policy decisions. The attempt to characterize her as anti-hunting is blatantly wrong. She has a record of voting in favor of increased hunting and trapping opportunities with the Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee and her work on the 40 Mile Team was aimed at restoring the herd and increasing hunting opportunities throughout the herd's range. Her background in conservation, recreation, and tourism will not work against the hunting community, but will bring diversity and a more in-depth perspective to wildlife policy issues facing the State. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked her when she first came to Alaska. She answered in 1984 and she moved here permanently in 1992. SENATOR HALFORD asked her if there was a reason that ADF&G records would show that she bought a non-resident fishing license in 1994. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS replied that that needed to be checked, but if it happened the reason is because she was working for the National Outdoor Leadership School, based in Palmer, teaching a wilderness skills and backpacking course which involved fishing as part of the curriculum. All of the instructors' fishing license were purchased for them by the school and they were also purchased for the students. The forms were filled out by the coordinator of the course who checked non-resident, because most of the staff and students were non-residents. She said she had called the Director of the Palmer branch of this school to clarify this with him and he is willing to take responsibility for this error and offered to help clarify any questions they would have about her residency. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if a license requires a signature by the individual who is applying for the license. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS said that is right and explained that she signed it, but didn't fill it out which is probably why it escaped her knowledge. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked her if she was a full time resident at that time. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS replied that she was. SENATOR LEMAN asked what the Fish and Game Watchable Wildlife Committee did when she was on their Board of Directors. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS explained that this is a committee that was put together by ADF&G that included a number of different user groups and interests to help further create positive watchable wildlife experiences and opportunities for all Alaskans and for people visiting Alaska. SENATOR LEMAN asked if she was involved in the challenges at McNeil River and the conflicts with the Paint River fish ladder. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS replied that none of those issues were addressed by that committee. SENATOR LEMAN asked her to explain the Alaska Rainforest Campaign. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS replied that it is primarily a national conservation organization that has representation in Alaska. She had worked primarily as a community organizer for the campaign regarding forestry issues in southcentral Alaska on Prince William Sound and on the Kenai Peninsula. Number 353 SENATOR LEMAN asked which hunting and native organizations she worked with as Executive Director of the Alaska Wildlife Alliance and what issues did she work on. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS responded that she had communications with organizations such as Friends of the McNeil and Alaskans For Fair Chase(hunting organization). She attended meetings and helped get input into a number of different projects with the Tanana Chiefs. She doesn't remember a lot of specifics of the meetings or what agenda items they were dealing with. SENATOR LEMAN asked her if she had ever worked with any group, including the Alaska Wildlife Alliance, that was involved with the lawsuits against Cook Inlet Aquaculture and the efforts to expand into the Paint River system. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS explained that she was not involved with the Paint River lawsuit and when she was hired that issue was already resolved. She repeated that she had nothing to do with that lawsuit. She also had nothing to do with the McNeil issue when she was with the Alliance. SENATOR LEMAN asked her how she advised students to minimize attacks by bears and what were her views of "in defense of life and property." MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS replied she taught people to put kitchens at least 200 feet away from where the sleeping areas are under most circumstances and to try as hard as they could to keep any food smells off of their clothes, to proceeded through terrain in groups of four or more so as not to have a single person walking through bear country and being surprised, and to make noise when traveling through alder brush and other areas where visibility might be poor. She thought it was critical to defend life and property under certain circumstances. She said if her life were threatened and she had the opportunity, she would kill the bear; and she would do that to save other people's lives. SENATOR LEMAN asked her if she had known Dick DeLac of Bird Creek. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS said she hadn't known him. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if her current employment was with the Alaska Center For the Environment. She said that was correct. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if the Western Gulf Coordinator and the Alaska Rainforest Campaign were two subsets of the Alaska Center For The Environment that represent on-going employment. She answered yes. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if she intended to maintain the employment at the same time as serving as a member of the Board of Game. She replied that at this time she would. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked her if she didn't see that as a conflict. She answered that she didn't. SENATOR SHARP said there have been several instances since 1986 ADF&G and the Board of Game have offered certain predator controls. He asked if she was the Executive Director or a member of the Alaska Wildlife Alliance and the Alaska Center For The Environment when they participated in lawsuits against the State and the Board in the Gordon Haber suit in 1993 and in the land and shoot lawsuit in 1994. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS answered that she was not the Director of the Alliance or a member of the Alaska Center For The Environment when those lawsuits were filed. In fact, she resigned from the Alaska Wildlife Alliance in March 1993. SENATOR SHARP asked when in 1995 did she become a participating member of the Fish and Game Advisory Committee and how many meetings has she attended since becoming a member. She replied that the elections were held in 1995 and she has not counted the number of meetings she has been to, but in general, you can count on needing to be present at 16 meetings per year. This does not include subcommittee meetings which she also participates in. They generally occur every month or every other month whenever the specific issues come up. In two years of involvement she has been to 32 - 40 meetings. SENATOR SHARP asked if it was correct that she had never harvested a game animal for personal use, but did not object to it. She replied that is correct. Number 122 SENATOR TAYLOR asked if her job with the Alaska Center For The Environment was a full time job. She replied that it is. SENATOR TAYLOR asked if her degree, Master of Science in Environmental Studies, was a liberal arts degree. She replied that it is a Master of Science degree and is an interdisciplinary program. She explained that she took biology, wildlife biology, and ecology courses at the University of Montana. SENATOR TAYLOR asked her what time she has spent in Southeast Alaska. She replied not a great deal, sorry to say. She said she had spent a couple of days in Juneau and Sitka, but had never done any wilderness trips. SENATOR TAYLOR noted the numerous articles she had written on the Tongass National Forest in light of the fact that she hadn't visited it and asked if she has a strong personal agenda. She replied that she has a strong commitment to conservation and conservation of wildlife and habitat resources. She feels that she is representing a majority of Alaskans opinions who believe that wildlife habitat and resources should be protected for future generations. She added that she had flown over the Tongass and had seen activities that have educated her about previous management actions on the forest. SENATOR TAYLOR remarked that seeing us from 3,000 feet at 150 miles per hour probably didn't give her quite the perspective that we have on the ground, but it seemed that is was sufficient for her to draw a lot of very strong conclusions. It's unfortunate that she didn't find out any of the facts before she drew those conclusions. He asked her if she thought she could honestly bring an open mind to the Board. She replied that she did. Regarding his comment that she hadn't spent time finding out the facts, she said it was unfortunate that she hadn't spent more time here, but she talked to people who live in Southeast Alaska and have spent a lot of time researching the facts as they are presented through scientific data and other information and she does not feel that her conclusions have been based on any whim, but have been fairly thought through. TAPE 97-19, SIDE A Number 001 As far as being an open minded Board member, she feels she has obtained much information and insight into the problems concerning the State on wildlife resource issues. She has tried hard to review scientific data and listen to the public and make the best decisions that she could on the Advisory Committee in her votes. She said she would do the same on the Board of Game. SENATOR TAYLOR said he disagreed with her statements in the publications before him. He asked if her attitude about life and property would remain the same with wolves as with bears, who were not going to kill an individual, but kill all the food the individual and their family need for the winter. MS. WHITTINGTON- EVANS replied that all of the issues deserve a lot of review. Science and public testimony have to be a part. It's her understanding that wolves do not eat all of the food that would be available for residents of Alaska. They eat a certain percentage of prey populations. The two situations he has described are different, but she would do what is best given the scientific information and the potential for prey to increase and the capacity of the habitat to support an increase, and she would look very closely at what the impacts of the predator populations are on the prey species. If those impacts are detrimental to the livelihood of the prey population, she would think long and hard about going forward with predator control. There are situations where she could support that. One is in the 40 Mile where she has already proven she is willing to work with the caribou herd in order to increase hunting opportunity for the residents and others in its original range. SENATOR TAYLOR asked her what her recommendation was on the 40 Mile. She answered that she supported the entire management package that included looking into non-lethal control of predators and a reduction in harvest levels by hunters among a number of other things. By non-lethal she meant sterilization. SENATOR TAYLOR asked her hypothetically if she would shoot a bear that was approaching her tethered dog or her neighbor's dog. She replied it would help her in this process, if he could tell her why this question, in particular, is important for a potential Board of Game candidate. SENATOR TAYLOR replied that bear populations are very important to him and he wanted to know how she would treat them. She agreed with him that bear/human interactions in urban areas are serious conflicts. She thought situations when a bear may be killed or not are determined as the occasion arises. It would be difficult for her to know how she would respond. She said she and her husband have four dogs, they ski tour a lot, two of the dogs are chained outside to their houses. SENATOR LINCOLN asked how many months she served as Executive Director of the Alaska Wildlife Alliance and why did she resign. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS replied that she was there for 10 months and primarily she resign due to internal strife within the organization. She thought one has to balance personal ethics and reason with any agency one might work for. She was able to do that for a majority of the time she was there. She was not able to do that on every issue that came before them. While she was there, the primary mission she had was to represent non-consumptive use and she felt at times the organization wasn't able to be as broad she would have liked in that arena. SENATOR LINCOLN asked her as a member of the Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee if she had ever been the deciding vote on any of the issues or been the lone vote. She replied that she could not remember being either one of those, but they had gone through 1,200 - 1,500 proposals since she arrived. SENATOR LINCOLN noted a letter of support from John Laurent. Among other things it said that she and Ms. Quakenbush represent viewpoints that have long been overlooked in the past when appointments have been made to the Board of Game and that Ms. Whittington-Evans is the only non-consumptive user. She asked her how she reacts on the Fish and Game Advisory Council when some controversial issues come up for hunting and trapping. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS responded that she is not a hunter, but she is not opposed to hunting and has thought long and hard about these issues. She very strongly supports the concept of obtaining food from the resources available immediately surrounding us such as moose, caribou, fish, and vegetables grown in the garden. She believes that we are ultimately all consumptive users and obtaining food from our surroundings when there is a consistent supply to support this is the most energy efficient, least impacting way to live. She said this is important especially in Alaska because the energy toll is very high to ship foods from other parts of the world. SENATOR LINCOLN asked her what her plans were for staying in Alaska. She responded that she and her husband just purchased a 40 acre property in Palmer. They plan on building a home there and are currently living on the property in an A-frame with no running water. They plan on making this their home and living in Alaska for a long time. She said she moved here because she loves the State. She wants to do what is best for the long term health of wildlife habitat and our generations to come. She said when she was with the Alaska Wildlife Alliance she realized that it heightened controversy among game and wildlife management issues and she strongly believes that what needs to be done is to work together in this State and have all interest groups represented to create positive solutions. The only way to do that is to get everyone to the table together. Continuing to polarize these issues will not get us anywhere. Number 300 SENATOR LINCOLN read from a letter written by Mr. Bob Churchill, Chairman, Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee, stating that the most disturbing allegation is that Ms. Evans is anti hunting and trapping and based on the two years he has worked with her on the AC, nothing could be further from the truth. She has been an active and productive participant in the deliberations on all issues including consumptive use of fish and game, trapping included. She has consistently voted for increased opportunity for hunting and trapping when it's supported from a biological perspective. She brings a great deal of credibility with those individuals in the environmental community. This is a time when hunters and trappers are becoming a smaller part of the population and we need to begin building bridges with all major groups that actively use our fish and game resources, not walls. SENATOR SHARP asked who is the employer of Mr. Churchill. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS said he works with the postal service. She didn't think he was associated with any of the non consumptive groups they talked about earlier. She couldn't say for sure. SENATOR LINCOLN submitted for the record a letter stating that, "Our Committee voted unanimously to endorse Nicole Evans to be on the Board of Game in our Advisory meeting of February 18." SENATOR GREEN asked if the work she did at the University of Montana was as a resident student. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS replied yes. SENATOR GREEN asked about the number of hours in the program. She replied that it was a three-year program and she entered the program in 1989 and finished her course work prior to moving to Alaska. She wrote her professional paper once she was in Alaska. She analyzed the 1992 wolf control plan that was proposed by the State. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if they could get copies of it. She replied that she could provide copies and added it was a 200 page document. Number 316 CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if she agreed that fish and game management issues should be left to the professional boards and not get into the political arena. She replied that she thought public comment was very important to the board process. She asked for clarification of what he meant by political. CHAIRMAN HALFORD explained that he thought it was intended, but during the time he has been here the boards try to isolate individual fisheries and game management decisions from the direct influence of the political process. He has always felt that was a good policy, although there were times when constituent pressure encourages one to do otherwise. He asked what was her philosophy regarding the constitutional and statutory framework of fish and game management in the State of Alaska. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS said she agreed with him in general that the board process should remain outside of the political process. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what her feelings were towards management by initiative. She replied that in general she opposes management by initiative. She feels they should thoroughly review scientific information and hold the public processes to work with the people of the State to come up with the best solutions for any given situation. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked her how she voted on a certain initiative and she replied that she has a right to privacy there. He replied that the question was did her employer support the initiative and did she, as an employee, actively work on the initiative. She replied that she didn't at all. She clarified that she has not been involved with wildlife policy decisions - the few that there are at the Alaska Center for the Environment. In general they do not take positions on wildlife issues; they don't have any staff member devoted to working on wildlife. The Alaska Center for the Environment did not take a position on the initiative. SENATOR SHARP said he was glad to hear she was going to remain in Alaska and that she obviously enjoyed the country. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked how long she had been in the Palmer area. She replied that they moved to Palmer in June when they purchased the property, but through working with the National Outdoor Leadership School prior to living there as a permanent resident, she spent a long time in Palmer. CHAIRMAN HALFORD questioned how she could live in Palmer and work on the Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee. She explained that she lived in Bird Creek when she was elected to it and she is just fulfilling her three-year term prior to moving to the Mat-Su Committee. SENATOR LINCOLN asked if there was time for public comment. CHAIRMAN HALFORD noted that the meeting today was by invitation and asked if anyone in the room wanted to testify. SENATOR LINCOLN said she wanted to know if there was intention to have later testimony so people could be notified. MR. BRETT HUBER, aide to Chairman Halford, explained that people were notified they could submit written testimony. CHAIRMAN HALFORD said they have their standard letter confirmation applicants which doesn't imply acceptance, rejection, or any commitment. MS. WHITTINGTON-EVANS asked if he wanted just the recommendations that came out of her professional paper because it was so lengthy. He asked her to send just one copy of her paper and the summary and they would send it back. He then adjourned the meeting at 5:35p.m.