SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE January 27, 1997 3:35 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Rick Halford, Chairman Senator Lyda Green, Vice Chairman Senator Loren Leman Senator Bert Sharp Senator Robin Taylor Senator Georgianna Lincoln MEMBERS ABSENT Senator John Torgerson COMMITTEE CALENDAR Department of Environmental Conservation Overview Presentation by Commissioner Michelle Brown and Mr. Keith Kelton, Director, Division of Facility Construction and Operation ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 97-3, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to order at 3:35 p.m. and announced the DEC Overview. COMMISSIONER MICHELLE BROWN stated that the quality of Alaska's air, water, and land resources is central to our social and economic future. The management of these resources should be based upon sound science, fairness, consistency, public involvement, and common sense. She said they are here to solve problems and to do development right, working toward compliance and technical assistance as their mission. She pointed out that 25% of their core services are in the areas of safe food and drinking water, proper sanitation, and better waste disposal. In Alaska many of these fundamental services are performed by the State. COMMISSIONER BROWN explained that disciplined budgeting has been done with some sacrificing their core services. Their general fund dollars have decreased by 70%. Some of this has been replaced with GF matched and program receipts, but even accounting for these the funding had decreased 43%. This decrease is very problematic, she said, because there are no other sources of funding available for the core public health services. Number 82 COMMISSIONER BROWN reported that their facilities construction and operation mission is to eliminate the honey bucket systems in rural Alaska. The Division of Facility Construction and Operation (FC&O) administers grants and loans and provides operational systems on a daily basis to municipal and village governments for water, sewer, and solid waste systems. They also work with the Governor's Washington Office and the Congressional delegation to secure consistent funding for these projects. Last year the work in this division improved the lives of approximately 800 rural Alaskan children by providing safe drinking water and sanitary sewage disposal to 520 households where it was previously being hauled. They have also improved water and sewer handling to an additional 900 households. In '98 they plan to add another 1,100 households. Their remote maintenance workers provide training and technical assistance to 126 rural communities and 280 individuals have been trained to pass operator certification exams. These projects also generate seasonal employment for over 1,000 rural resident and provide about $8 million in wages. The municipal program results in about 300 construction jobs yearly. Urban Alaska engineering firms, vendors, and freight operators also benefit from about $12 - $15 million in business from these projects, she said. The Environmental Health Division inspects almost 900 fish processing facilities in the State. Alaska is the largest producer of wild salmon in the country and our processors produce 50% of the nation's seafood. They recently won the Vice President's Hammer award for streamlining government by creating with FDA a regional seafood data base that enable our products to get on the European market quicker. There is a food safety program that inspects over 4,000 facilities each year, COMMISSIONER BROWN said. They are moving to a risk based inspection program to ensure that their resources are devoted to the areas posing the greatest health risk. Both their meat inspection and food safety programs received federal recognition this year as exemplary programs. COMMISSIONER BROWN reported that the Air and Water Division assists 500 operators who need air permits. Yearly they issue 50 construction permits and 150 operating permits and do site specific technical assistance visits to 250 operators. They work with local governments in solving their air quality programs and are developing a monitoring plan for radio-active material that may be leaking on Amchitka Island. They have pending before EPA a request to exempt Alaska from the low-sulphur fuel diesel requirements for cars and trucks, because the millions of dollars it would take can not be justified by the small health benefits to be achieved. Number 140 CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if that included all uses of diesel. COMMISSIONER BROWN answered that this requirement deals with mobile sources like cars and trucks. Stationary sources are covered by permits and they have emissions limits. A problem is created when mobile sources move in as part of a stationary operation for some period of time - like a drilling rig. There are two alternatives: to remodel the emission permits or to use low-sulphur fuel. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what would be the availability and cost of low-sulphur fuel which is not available in Alaska. COMMISSIONER BROWN replied that the operators felt it was not a particular hardship, but the refiners felt it caused them a serious problem, because if they weren't producing it, they would loose the market share. Therefore, they pulled the regulation back and are continuing to work on it. CHAIRMAN HALFORD commented that there are mobile sources, fixed engines, and non-road engines. He asked what a D10 would be. COMMISSIONER BROWN replied that it would be covered under the permit for the stationary facility. Number 176 COMMISSIONER BROWN continued saying that the Division of Water certifies federal water discharge permits for about four major facilities per year and about 20 municipal waste water discharges. They also approved 60 major forest plans and provide technical assistance to 15 timber operations. They complete approximately 300 water quality certifications for dredge and fuel permits and review another 200 permits for compliance with State water quality requirements, focusing on those that have significant water-shed impacts. This year they launched a public water quality work group to work on 12 standards which were identified by the public and industry as causing them day-to-day problems. The State-wide Public Service Division routinely gets about 13,000 requests for information and assistance each year. This group works with communities and large facilities to prioritize issues on a department-wide basis. This group also works with local communities to find solutions to avoid costly replacement of equipment or shipment outside of waste materials. They helped develop an excess materials exchange that saved Alaska business about $500 thousand dollars so far as well as reduced loads on land fills. They also have a pit-stop program, a service to the auto- motive sector which provides technical assistance to 220 small businesses on how to manage and reduce pollution. The Spill Prevention and Response Division last year cleaned up 135 additional contaminated sites from previous years and they have major clean-ups underway at King Salmon, the Pribiloff Islands, the PAPC Site in Sitka, and they are beginning on KPC Site in Ketchikan. They turned over initial spill response equipment to 14 local communities to enhance their efforts to respond to spills rather than have them depend upon the State. They have also adopted best-available technology regulations for the State's Oil Pollution Prevention and Response Statute. Right now, they have launched an initiative to develop State-wide risk based clean-up standards for contaminated sites which tailors clean-up standards to the risks that are posed by the type of contaminant and the location. She said there has been a major achievement in Prince William Sound where the TAPS owners have agreed to enhance the current tug escort and rescue capacity and are bringing up new state-of-the-art vessels and the first one will be here in about three months. Administrative Services was put under single management about a year and a half ago allowing them to be more efficient, to decrease staff, and to simplify department-wide practices such as billings. Number 261 COMMISSIONER BROWN reviewed the status of adopted legislation that the committee requested by reading the hand-out available in the packets. Number 281 SENATOR LEMAN asked regarding HB 208 if the Department's adopted seafood quality regulations was the same as the HASP Program. COMMISSIONER BROWN replied that they are different, but she said she would check on it for him. Regarding SB 69, SENATOR LEMAN noted that he had seen a newsletter from the Prince William Sound Aquaculture Association saying that they had some concerns about their liability regarding disposal and asked what their concern was. COMMISSIONER BROWN explained that with the glut of salmon last year, the food banks were afraid to accept some of the food that was past its prime, so they asked them for guidance. SENATOR TAYLOR said he agreed that the quality of the product once it was distributed was an important issue. COMMISSIONER BROWN said that they license pesticide applicators and noted that is one of the professional licenses that can be withheld if a person is behind on child support payments. SENATOR HALFORD asked if they were coming up with a temporary license for those who lose their license under the "must be withheld" as other agencies were doing. She said she would find out for him. COMMISSIONER BROWN said the National Toxics Rule has created serious permitting problems without adding any health protections, because Alaska's water is naturally high in arsenic and she met with the EPA to get a stay until they do further studies. SENATOR LEMAN said he remembered other problems with the Toxics Rule having to do with the tabulation of the discharge waste of oil operations as toxic. She answered that she is negotiating with EPA on that issue as well as a number of others. COMMISSIONER BROWN said since last year's budget they have sought and received three increases for this year: $570,000 in designated program receipts for water permits and increases for clean-up oversite from the Exxon Valdez Trustee Council for specific projects. The department has two funding requests for increases. One is for the storage tank assistance program and the other is for APC for teaching clean-up oversite. They may also seek an additional $100,000 in federal receipt authority for requirements under the reauthorized Safe Drinking Water Act. COMMISSIONER BROWN explained that there was a more detailed summary of their division in their packet. Pages 11 and 12 have a detailed list of changes in their budget. She said she thought they had made a lot of progress in DEC in achieving budget clarity and they have provided a valuable service for the dollars that have been spent. All in all they have nurtured a cooperative mediated approach to environmental management. They have some continued budget challenges due to the decrease in general funds. Some of these have been offset by increases in federal funds and general program receipts. She said they want to increase their ability to do compliance assistance with industry agency work groups and ambient conditions monitoring. The department needs to do a better job on handling water discharge permits quicker and with better analysis particularly for operators who are unable to pay the fees for that. There are no general funds to do that, she noted. Number 453 SENATOR LINCOLN requested a breakdown and comparison of communities that are still on the honey bucket system with unsafe water conditions because she thought that would give them a better idea of where they are in the State. COMMISSIONER BROWN replied that she would do that for her and said that they are at a little over 50% with households that need to have systems put in. They anticipate being at about 79% in 2000. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if they had come up with some way to deal with households three feet above sea level. COMMISSIONER BROWN replied that they use a mix of systems and work with a community to figure out what will work best. MR. KEITH KELTON responded that there was no one answer. There were two choices in a situation like that - a vacuum system that's above ground or a hauling system in closed containers. SENATOR TAYLOR said he didn't think there were many people in the room who were on a developed system. If they were going to include the cost of running water and sewer lines, he wanted his and his neighbor's house included. He would also like to see what the cost per household was for developing the systems they have put in so far. Number 524 SENATOR LINCOLN said they had to also look at the economy in a given area as well. Otherwise a simple solution would be for everyone to just move. She said the State has the responsibility for providing basic health care. She was also concerned with the military sites being cleaned up, because they leave behind some of the worst contaminated areas that she has seen. COMMISSIONER BROWN responded that with the help of our Congressional delegation, the department had been aggressive on this issue. The agreement they have with King Salmon is a one-of- a-kind for the nation in which the military is letting the State determine when the site is clean. SENATOR LINCOLN asked who monitors the sites. COMMISSIONER BROWN answered that she works with DOD to rank sites and ultimately Congress decides where the money is going to come from. The Department monitors the sites. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if general fund money was being used to do the monitoring on Amchitka. She replied no. SENATOR LINCOLN said she wanted to know how much money we had lost for programs the department wanted to continue and what the impact of centralization was on rural communities. TAPE 97-3, SIDE B Number 590 COMMISSIONER BROWN replied that they are down slightly on federal dollars, but the problem is that federal dollars direct them to do certain programs that may not be what the department thinks is the most important. It's the loss of general funds that's the problem. She said they had not centralized, but they have programs that have united so that the program development and implementation is all under single leadership for continuity. SENATOR GREEN asked about disposal of hazardous material. COMMISSIONER BROWN explained that generally hazardous waste disposal is run by land fill operators who set the terms and conditions for them. There are periods in the summer when the department does hazardous material pick-ups. A new program funded by Exxon Valdez money covered the Prince William Sound Communities, but they are fairly expensive programs. MR. KELTON added that Anchorage has facilities for paints, batteries, etc. Number 529 SENATOR TAYLOR asked if it was true that five years ago there were five DEC employees in Fairbanks and today there are 45. COMMISSIONER BROWN said she would get the exact numbers. SENATOR TAYLOR asked where they were on plan approvals for oil spill response. She replied that every operator has to have contingency plans and they are approved as they come in. SENATOR TAYLOR said that now two men are required to be on the bridge of the tug boat because the person at the wheel may be rendered unconscious. COMMISSIONER BROWN responded that the risk assessment recently done in Prince William Sound by a coalition of emissions systems advisory groups pointed that out as a risk. Industry has determined that they want to have extra personnel to offset that, but it hasn't been a requirement in the contingency plan. SENATOR TAYLOR noted that right now Ketchikan has to ship its solid waste to the Columbia River which seems to be an inordinate expense. He asked if they could expect some help from DEC to assist communities in finding a centralized place for all of it. Number 473 COMMISSIONER BROWN responded that solid waste disposal was a problem and that they were dealing mostly with federal standards. Last year they worked with the Congressional delegation and got an Alaskan specific exemption to solid waste laws so we could develop programs and regulations for very small facilities that allow us to focus on continual incremental improvements rather than an all or nothing compliance scenario. EPA has indicated interim approval of those and she expects to get primacy of the program this year. MR. KELTON added that the Southeast Conference has put solid waste as a number one priority and have looked at regionalization concepts. He said the State can't develop regional concepts a hoped their regulations were developed so as to promote regional interest in taking on this responsibility. SENATOR TAYLOR commented that the garbage regulations are so difficult to comply with that nobody can meet them. Number 435 MR. KELTON responded that it is working in Southeast Alaska at a fairly reasonable cost in the small community of Thorne Bay. DEC has assisted that community in putting in a bailer and a new land fill which they are able to operate for a reasonable amount of money. The situation in Ketchikan was a local decision that he personally didn't support since he had funds for an incinerator which the city didn't use for three or four years. It was their choice to haul it south. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if it was legal under State laws to have a burn barrel and burn your trash and bury what's left in the barrel every three months. MR. KELTON answered that as long as you are outside an area that has a local ordinance, it's legal. Individual on-lot disposal is approved. Number 392 SENATOR LEMAN asked if there were any plans approved for tankers operating in Cook Inlet. COMMISSIONER BROWN answered that all operators in Cook Inlet do have plans. She explained that the operators apply together because they have a single responder who does a portion of it for them. SENATOR LEMAN asked her to comment on the progress of the storage tank efforts. COMMISSIONER BROWN said she would get the figures to him and said the legislature each year has provided funding to them for upgrades as well as clean-ups. SENATOR HALFORD asked what happened if they didn't fund the capital portion of it this year. COMMISSIONER BROWN replied that projects under way and new ones slated just wouldn't happen. The operators have come to depend on this program. SENATOR TAYLOR asked if areas other than Southeast Alaska that don't percolate, requiring an unconventional system, need to have DEC have DEC approval. She answered that an unconventional system's plan still needed to be approved by DEC throughout the State. She added that lenders sometimes require more than one health authority to say it will work. SENATOR TAYLOR asked if honey buckets were conventional systems in the areas Senator Lincoln was referring to (like in Rampart). COMMISSIONER BROWN answered that they didn't offer permits or plan approval, because that's a system that is already in place. She explained that those situations are usually where local governments are not allowing the building permit, because they want someone to review the plan. She said they encourage local government to run their own domestic waste water program and it is up to them to determine their standards. SENATOR TAYLOR commented that it seemed to him that a community could choose to opt out of the process entirely. That way they would never see DEC in their community. COMMISSIONER BROWN replied that if a local government takes over the program, they can run it however they chose. However, it wouldn't take long for a program like that to crash and burn. It has happened all over the State. SENATOR TAYLOR explained that he was concerned that it was possible for a community to let things go until it was so bad that it became some one else's problem when other communities were spending money and putting in approved systems. He wanted to see some uniformity. COMMISSIONER BROWN replied that their regulations were uniform. An unconventional system required plan approval for single families. If a local community takes over an entire program, they could change it. To the extent that a community hasn't done that, their regulations are uniform throughout the State. SENATOR TAYLOR commented that he saw the same pictures of disposal problems year after year. Number 300 CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if it was their opinion that conventional systems in the average Alaska climate work or are they simply storage and transportation systems to eventually fill up the entire leach capacity of the area. MR. KELTON said his opinion was that any septic tank system in this State is ultimately going to fail. It's a question of time and conditions vary greatly. CHAIRMAN HALFORD clarified that it seemed to him that if someone wanted to try something new that very well may work, a person needed a permit, but if you put in a conventional system that they know doesn't work, a person doesn't need a permit. COMMISSIONER BROWN said it was important to note that conventional systems that will ultimately fail, will work for periods of time. It is imperfect, but it does work temporarily. CHAIRMAN HALFORD said it was his opinion that they should be easier on some alternative technologies and to encourage them more than their set of criteria seems to be doing. Number 232 SENATOR LEMAN commented that "fail" was an unfortunate use of words, because it's the same as tires on a car. They will fail eventually, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use them. You should use them and then replace them at an appropriate time. A septic system may eventually clog, but if it's done properly he thought it could be quite adequate in many cases. He agreed with Senator Halford, though, that alternative technologies should be considered as part of the conventional that don't require plan approval. COMMISSIONER BROWN clarified that regulations now approve a certain kind of package plant. A person needs to submit how it will work under his conditions. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked the Department's view of combustion incinerator toilets. COMMISSIONER BROWN replied that they are expensive. MR. KELTON said they have estimated up to $200 per month for a family of four to operate. In areas with natural gas it would be more economical. The system is good. SENATOR LINCOLN asked if there was a housing project, did there need to be an approved plan for waste. COMMISSIONER BROWN answered that a dwelling for multiple families required approval. SENATOR LINCOLN said that wasn't what was happening in some communities like Rampart where there is a project going in right now. The system that they are using is dumping their waste on a hole in the snow on top of the ground. No one has monitored that. MR. KELTON asked if the liquid lagoon in Rampart was being used. SENATOR LINCOLN explained that the lagoon in Rampart goes from the laundromat and the school and that no one hauled their waste to the lagoon. She said the point was that in most villages people don't haul their waste to a lagoon. COMMISSIONER BROWN explained that DEC doesn't have legions of inspectors who go out to check on how things are done. Generally inspections happen in urban areas. She added that she didn't think they wanted inspectors coming in to a community and "cracking down." She thought it would be good for communities to come to them to work together on solutions for safer ways of disposing of waste. SENATOR LINCOLN said she thought there might be a plan for the whole State to follow. Number 66 CHAIRMAN HALFORD commented that because the State was unwilling to support individual systems in the urban and suburban areas, they tend to collectivize systems in small villages where they would be better off with individual systems. He thought part of the reason was the political objection to building individual systems for some and not for others. However, he thought it would be better to build something that would be used rather than to build something that wouldn't be used and which no one would feel responsible for maintaining. COMMISSIONER BROWN agreed. Number 28 There being no further business to come before the Committee, CHAIRMAN HALFORD adjourned at 5:07 p.m.