SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE April 15, 1994 4:12 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Mike Miller, Chairman Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman Senator Al Adams Senator Dave Donley Senator Fred Zharoff MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Steve Frank Senator Drue Pearce OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Robin Taylor Senator George Jacko Representative Carl Moses COMMITTEE CALENDAR Confirmation Hearing: Board of Fisheries Appointments: Kay Andrew, Dick Bower, and Larry Engel PREVIOUS ACTION N/A WITNESS REGISTER Larry Engel, Nominee P.O. Box 197 Palmer, Ak. 99645 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented briefly on his qualifications. Dick Bower P.O. Box 3662 Soldotna, Ak. 99669 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on his background. Kay Andrew, Nominee P.O. Box 7211 Ketchikan, Ak. 99901 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented briefly on her philosophy. Leslie Smith Kodiak Island Salmon Working Group P.O. Box 2922 Kodiak, Ak. 99615 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew and Dick Bower. Jeff Parker Alaska Sportfishing Association and Trout Unlimited 1201 Hyder Anchorage, Ak. 99501 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew and supported Larry Engel and Dick Bower. Dan Albrecht, Executive Director Yukon River Drainage Fisheries Association 733 W. 4th, # 881 Anchorage, Ak. 99501 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew. Henry Mitchell Bering Sea Fishermen's Association 725 Christensen Dr. Anchorage, Ak. 99501 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew. John Nichols False Pass, Ak. POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three nominees. Melanie Gunderson Nelson Lagoon, Ak. POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three nominees. Luther Nagaruk Elim, Ak. POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew. Henry Aganof Norton Sound Gillnetters Association Unalakleet, Ak. POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew. Doug Bowers Nenana, Ak. 99760 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew and Dick Bower. Gail Stephens Nenana, Ak. 99760 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew and Dick Bower. Percy Tite Nenana, Ak. 99760 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew and Dick Bower. Carol Albrecht Golovin, Ak. POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew and Dick Bower. Harold Boom Golovin, Ak. POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew and Larry Engel. Daryl Amerok, Sr. Golovin, Ak. POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew, Larry Engel, and Dick Bower. Jeff Rickerson Chenega, Ak. POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew. Albert Jackson Golovin, Ak. POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew, Larry Engel, and Dick Bower. Debra Gifford P.O. Box 8125 Port Alexander, Ak. 99836 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew. Dennis Longsmith P.O. Box 8066 Port Alexander, Ak. 99836 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew. Laura Rideout General Delivery Port Alexander, Ak. 99836 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew. Grant Newton P.O. Box 37 King Cove, Ak. 99612 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew, Dick Bower, and Larry Engel. Della Trumble P.O. Box 38 King Cove, Ak. 99612 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew, Dick Bower, and Larry Engel. Frankie Mack P.O. Box 64 King Cove, Ak. 99612 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew. Henry Mack P.O. box 210 King Cove, Ak. 99612 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew, Larry Engel, and Dick Bower. Jack Foster, Jr. Sand Point, Ak. 99661 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew, Larry Engel, and Dick Bower. Glen Gardner, Jr. P.O. Box 444 Sand point, Ak. 99661 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew and Larry Engel. Ray Vergin Sand Point, Ak. 99661 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew Melanie Gunderson Nelson, Lagoon, Ak. POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew and Dick Bower. Dave Osterback, Chairman Advisory Committee P.O. Box 144 Sand Point, Ak. 99661 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew, Dick Bower, and Larry Engel. Peggy Osterback P.O. 61 Sand Point, Ak. 99661 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew, Dick Bower, and Larry Engel. Harold Spark P.O. Box 267 Bethel, Ak. 99559 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Dick Bower and Larry Engel. Opposed ed Kay Andrew. Karen Samuelson P.O. Box 219 Bethel, Ak. 99559 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Larry Engel. Had neutral position on Dick Bower and opposed Kay Andrew. Myron Naneg, President Association of Village Counsel Presidents P.O. Box 219 Bethel, Ak. 99559 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew. Supported Larry Engel. Was neutral on Dick Bower. Billy McCan P.O. Box 1924 Bethel, Ak. 99559 POSITION STATEMENT: Stated he was the interpreter. Dale Bondurant HC1, Box 1197 Soldotna, Ak. 99669 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Larry Engel and Dick Bower. Ben Ellis, Executive Director Kenai River Sportfishing, Inc. P.O. Box 1228 Soldotna, Ak. 99669 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Kay Andrew. Supported Larry Engel and nd Dick Bower. David Horne HC 2, Box 543 Kasilof, Ak. 99610 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew. Opposed Larry Engel and nd Dick Bower. Joseph Jolly, President United Cook Inlet Drift Association HC2, Box 753 Soldotna, Ak. 99669 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew. Opposed Dick Bower and d Larry Engel. Karl Kircher P.O. Box 95 Kasilof, Ak. 99610 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Dick Bower. Was neutral on Larry Engel. Connie Gatling Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association Soldotna, Ak. 99669 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Kay Andrew. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 94-36, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN MILLER called the Resources Committee meeting to order at 4:12 p.m. and announced they would take testimony on the Fish Board appointments. LARRY ENGEL, testifying from Palmer, said he had been living in Alaska since 1958 and he is a former employee of the Department of Fish and Game for 32 years. Now he has time to give back to the resource that has been so good to him. DICK BOWER, Soldotna, said since the mid 1950's he had been actively involved in conservation education and various natural resource issues. SENATOR TAYLOR asked if he thought it was appropriate for legislators to base their decision on who to confirm based upon their vote on the AYK question? MR. BOWER said he hoped that wouldn't be the whole basis for any decision made by the committee. KAY ANDREW said one of the reasons she wanted to serve on the Board was because she was born and raised in Ketchikan and she has seen a lot of changes. She was very concerned with mariculture, fishing, timber, and subsistence. She said she based her decisions on all the information the Department turns in, public testimony, the views of the other Board members, and the questions that come up. She tried to come up with a balanced approach. Number 145 LESLIE SMITH, Kodiak Island Salmon Working Group, supported Kay Andrew who she thought was competent and careful to assess the issues based on information provided during the meeting. She also supported Mr. Bower who demonstrated a high degree of perspicuity and has the best interests of the state resources in mind. JEFF PARKER, Alaska Sportfishing Association and Trout Unlimited, opposed Kay Andrew and supported Larry Engel and Dick Bower. He explained that no one particular vote should be the sole criteria on how a candidate is judged for position on the Board. It seems clear to them that Mr. Engel and Mr. Bower both recognize the importance of the conservation sustained yield obligation and the subsistence priority in the law before dealing with allocation issues. Ms. Andrew did not recognize that and deflected the issues. DAN ALBRECHT, Yukon River Drainage Fishing Association, opposed Kay Andrew because she did everything she could do to denigrate the staff and the Commissioner. HENRY MITCHELL, Executive Director, Bering Sea Fishermen's Association, opposed Kay Andrew, because she did not take steps to reduce the chum interceptions in the False Pass fishery. She ignored the staff and Commissioner's recommendations. This was a conservation issue. JOHN NICHOLS, False Pass fish buyer, supported all three nominees. He said it wasn't fair to focus on just one issue. Number 288 MELANIE GUNDERSON, Nelson Lagoon, supported Kay Andrew, Dick Bower, and Larry Engel. She thought Ms. Andrew was very qualified and made her decisions based on fact, not political pressure. This is not the first time people have been rejected because of one issue. LUTHER NAGARUK, Elim, opposed Kay Andrew's appointment primarily because of the conservation issue. He agreed with Mr. Mitchell's testimony. HENRY AGANOF, Norton Sound Gillnetters Association, opposed Kay Andrew's appointment, because of the conservation issue. DOUG BOWERS, Nenana, opposed confirmation of Kay Andrew and Dick Bower, because of their conduct at the meeting in Anchorage and the fact that they have never had a subsistence or commercial fisherman represented on the Board in its entire history. He was also concerned with the conservation issue. GAIL STEPHENS, Nenana, opposed the confirmation of Kay Andrew, because she saw her actions as a Board member in Anchorage. She thought she was very biased in her treatment of the testifiers. MS. STEPHENS also opposed Dick Bower, because he didn't have an understanding of the problems that are facing the fishery. PERCY TITE, Nenana, opposed Kay Andrew and Dick Bower. CAROL ALBRECHT, Golovin, opposed Kay Andrew and Dick Bower, because they were very unfair. They need to abide by the laws of ANILCA. We need to follow a policy conservation of healthy population of wildlife, he said. HAROLD BOOM, Golovin, opposed Kay Andrew and Larry Engel. DARYL AMEROK, SR., Golovin, opposed Kay Andrew, Larry Engel, and Dick Bower for being discriminating. JEFF RICKERSON, Vice President, Chenega Community, opposed Kay Andrew. ALBERT JACKSON, Golovin, opposed Kay Andrew, Larry Engel, and Dick Bower, because of the conservation issue. Number 450 DEBRA GIFFORD, Port Alexander, supported Kay Andrew's confirmation. She conducts herself in a professional manner and was comfortable to approach for questions, she said. DENNIS LONGSMITH, Port Alexander, supported Kay Andrew. He felt she was approachable and that too much was being made of her vote on a single issue. He has no opposition to Dick Bower or Larry Engel. He thought they did a good job of representing their own constituents. LAURA RIDEOUT, Port Alexander power troller, supported Kay Andrew's confirmation. GRANT NEWTON, Chairman, King Cove Advisory Committee, supported all three of the nominees. He thought that Mr. Engel and Ms. Andrew took the time and energy to investigate issues more than any other board members have done in the past. DELLA TRUMBLE, King Cove, supported Kay Andrew's, Dick Bower's, and Larry Engel's confirmation on behalf of the tribal membership of King Cove, even though Ms. Andrew and Mr. Engel voted differently on the issues involved. FRANKIE MACK, King Cove, supported Kay Andrew. She conducted herself at the last Board of Fish meeting in a very professional manner. Her knowledge and willingness to learn more about the fishery issues was outstanding. She was not biased. HENRY MACK, commercial fisherman, supported all three candidates. He said that each group that testifies has a special interest and it is important to have a balanced board. He thought Kay Andrew handled herself in a very professional manner over a very emotional issue in the last meeting. JACK FOSTER, Sand Point, supported Kay Andrew, Dick Bower, and Mr. Engel. He said this is the first time he has seen the Board make a decision based on scientific data rather than political pressures. GLEN GARDNER, JR., Sand Point, supported Kay Andrew and Larry Engel. Ms. Andrew conducted the meeting in a very professional manner. It was refreshing to see a Board act on facts and not political pressure, as it has in the past. RAY VERGIN, Sand Point, supported confirmation of all three candidates. TAPE 94-36, SIDE B Number 580 He said we need people on the Board who are objective and all three were objective at the last Board meeting over an emotional issue. Unidentified speaker from Sand Point supported Kay Andrew because she is fair in her own judgement and doesn't base her decisions on politics. He also supported Dick Bower. MELANIE GUNDERSON, Nelson Lagoon, supported Kay Andrew. She did a very good job of chairing the last Board of Fisheries meeting at which there was a lot of political pressure. DAVID OSTERBACK, Sand Point, supported all three candidates. They demonstrated a professional attitude by patiently listening to hundreds of people testifying and reading ADF&G staff reports. Their decisions were based on serious unbiased positions. PEGGY OSTERBACK, Sand Point, supported all three candidates. Number 551 HAROLD SPARK, Bethel, said he was a subsistence fisherman. He supported Dick Bower and Larry Engel. He was impressed with their understanding of the issues and their neutrality. He opposed Kay Andrew, because he thought she had an agenda. KAREN SAMUELSON, Fisheries Specialist for The Association of Village Counsel Presidents, opposed Kay Andrew. She thought she wouldn't uphold the subsistence priority, especially in light of a conservation crisis. This is a necessary qualification for a Board of Fish member. She has clearly shown that she holds commercial fishing over historic sustained yield and subsistence priorities, she said. In a conservation crisis, she will not protect the resource. MS. SAMUELSON supported Larry Engel and had a neutral position on Dick Bower. MYRON NANEG, Bethel, said in the last meeting the votes that came up ignored the sustained yield principles required in the state Constitution. He opposed Kay Andrew, supported Larry Engel, and was neutral on Dick Bower. BILLY MCCAN, Bethel, stated he was the interpreter and translated some of what was said. DALE BONDURANT, Soldotna, supported Larry Engel, because he supports conservation of the resource. He thought that Dick Bower was committed to the same goals. She has not known Ms. Andrew long enough to fairly assess her position. BEN ELLIS, Executive Director, Kenai River Sportfishing, Inc., supported confirmation of Dick Bower and Larry Engel. He opposed Kay Andrew, because members of the Board must realize that mixed stock fisheries must be harvested after the stocks have naturally separated themselves into terminal rivers and streams. DAVID HORNE, Kasilof, supported Kay Andrew. She did not have any preconceived opinions that would prevent any user group from receiving a fair hearing. He opposed Dick Bower, because in a House Resource Committee meeting he said he would grant commercial fishing the lowest priority allocation. Mr. Engel, in his resume', did not list that he was employed by the Mat-Su Borough since 1992 as a consultant. He opposed his confirmation, because he would not be able to impartially address sports and commercial fishery allocation issues in Cook Inlet and he has represented the Mat-Su Borough at the Cook Inlet Board of Fisheries hearings. JOSEPH JOLLY, President, United Cook Inlet Drift Association, supported Kay Andrew. He feels she has no preconceived opinions that would prevent any user group from receiving a fair hearing. He opposed Larry Engel's confirmation, because he felt he wouldn't be able to impartially address sport and commercial fishing allocation issues in Cook Inlet. His resume' also mentions nothing about his tenure with the Mat-Su Borough. He also opposed Dick Bower, because he has stated that sports fishermen should be given a priority over commercial fishermen for the allocation of our resources. Number 305 KARL KIRCHER, Kasilof, urged the committee to keep the Board of Fish process in tact. It is now in jeopardy by the manner in which qualified, experienced board members have not been reappointed, because they failed to vote in the politically correct way. He urged them to not confirm Dick Bower, because he has sport fishing as a priority allocation in Cook Inlet with commercial fishing being the lowest. Number 264 CONNIE GATLING, Soldotna, supported Kay Andrew. She said she was concerned with confirmation hearings being held after a person has begun to serve on the Board, because this could lead to judging a person by how they vote rather than by their overall qualifications. SENATOR MILLER said they had run out of time and thanked everyone for their testimony. SENATOR TAYLOR, for the record, asked if they had seen Kay Andrew's letter wherein she indicated in several different parts the number of times she was threatened by people that if she didn't vote the right way, they would line up against her and testify against her on her confirmation bid. He said he enjoyed listening to all those people come through with their threats. SENATOR MILLER adjourned the meeting at 5:07 p.m.