SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE March 11, 1994 3:38 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Mike Miller, Chairman Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman Senator Steve Frank Senator Drue Pearce Senator Al Adams Senator Dave Donley MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Fred Zharoff COMMITTEE CALENDAR SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 16 Relating to release of nonproprietary geographic information system files in possession of the state. SENATE BILL NO. 299 "An Act providing that the commissioner of natural resources may not charge or assess a general administrative service fee for certain appropriations of water." PREVIOUS ACTION SCR 16 - No previous action to record. SB 299 - See Resources minutes dated 3/11/94. WITNESS REGISTER Dr. Doug Segar, Director Environment and Natural Resources Institute University of Alaska, Anchorage 707 A Street Anchorage, Ak. 99501 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SCR 16. Richard McMahon, Acting Chief Land Records Information Department of Natural Resources P.O. Box 107005 Anchorage, Ak. 99510-7005 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SCR 16. Ric Davidge, Director Division of Water Chief, Alaska Hydrologic Survey Department of Natural Resources P.O. Box 107005 Anchorage, Ak. 99510-7005 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 299. Gary Newman 1083 Esro Road Fairbanks, Ak. 99712 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 299. Gary Prokosch Water Management Development Department of Natural Resources P.O. Box 107005 Anchorage, Ak. 99510-7005 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 299. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 94-18, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN MILLER called the Resources Committee meeting to order at 3:38 p.m. and announced SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 16 (Relating to release of nonproprietary geographic information system files in possession of the state.) to be up for consideration. JO FENETY, Legislative Aide to Senator Pearce, sponsor, said she would turn the discussion over to Dr. Doug Segar, Director for the Environment and Natural Resources Institute at the University of Alaska, to answer questions. DR. SEGAR said they have been given the mission of providing the central public information access node for environment and natural resource data in the state, serving the public and state and federal agencies and their need to get information from a variety of sources. In 1981 the Alaska State Climate Center was added to the organization. In 1993 the Alaska Natural Heritage Program was added. This year they are adding an Environmental Mediation and Conflict Resolution Program. Their primary mission is to gather data, (not to do research), analyze, and synthesize it, and make it available to those people in the state who need it. They process on the average of 4,000 requests for information per year, MR. SEGAR said. State funding is only the base of their operations. They get 3 federal dollars for every 1 state dollar. Up to this point in time the information they have gathered has been discs on data in spreadsheet format, data reports, and technical reports from all of the agencies, including Arco and BP. Recently GIS geographical information systems have become the replacement, in essence, for data reports. The continuously evolving geographic systems are much more efficient, because from that source you can get more information, more quickly, and analyze the data much more easily. The problem is that they no longer get data reports from some of the agencies and they are soon to be designated as a data center for the United Nations Environment Program Geographical Information Data System. That means they will have access to all the U.N. environment program GIS files for the entire world. MR. SEGAR informed the Committee that they are also the first of the Northern Forum data centers. They are also negotiating a cooperative agreement to be the data center to transmit information between state agencies and the new national biological survey. They are working with the Environmental Resources Institute (SRI) to develop software the public can use and software that will allow them to do time series data to look for time change in the environmental data. Number 220 SENATOR LEMAN asked why they need the resolution. MR. SEGAR said they have requested information from various departments and some are willing and some will provide it only for an up front cost that is beyond their ability to fund. SENATOR LEMAN asked about the complaints of duplicating services that had been heard from private contractors. MR. SEGAR said he had heard of them and they are cooperating with these engineering companies and are actually hoping to place some of their students with them. He said now there is no serious problem. SENATOR LEMAN asked if the information would be available to for- profit data managers. He explained there are agreements with their clients that specify second use provisions. Number 258 RICHARD MCMAHON, Manager, Land Records Information Section, Department of Natural Resources, agreed with Dr. Seger's testimony. With the increasing importance of environmental issues, an active role for the repository is much more beneficial than a passive one. He emphasized the GIS systems are typically very large and very complicated and have a lot of information. Care must be taken to prevent unnecessary duplication. More active communication with AIDC agencies will have to develop responsible methods for the dissemination of information and he supported the cooperative approach that Mr. Segar mentioned. SENATOR MILLER said he intended to move the bill when there was a quorum and announced SB 299 (REPEAL ADMINISTRATIVE WATER FEE) to be be up for consideration. He explained that it repeals the authority of the Commissioner to charge a $50 administrative fee for appropriation of water. Number 311 RIC DAVIDGE, Director, Division of Water, said when this fee was recently passed, the state had no authority to assess fees in order to collect revenue from the export of water. Because of certain supreme court decisions that say the state can't charge California more than it charges itself, they discussed a variety of fees. For example, he said they had applications for large amounts of water with fees of $200 and the cost of the adjudication of some of those services was in excess of $100,000. At the time, the Resources Committee requested him to come up with a fee respective of all the costs associated with the administrative services they provided. It would not be cost effective to bill for those services every time. They found that 3,000 of 16,000 were causing the costs. Going through the regulatory process they identified the approximately 3,000 citizens that would be affected by the fee. Updating their files allowed them to drop 1,000 people. Out of the first billing last year they received about $100,000 with about 95% compliance. With their second billing they expect 98% compliance, MR. DAVIDGE said. One of the reasons they are doing this is because there is a dramatic reduction in general fund authorizations for the Division of Water and an increase in program receipt authorizations. Out of a $1.8 million budget for the Division of Water, MR. DAVIDGE said, $600,000 is fees generated through direct services provided to the public. The fee only applies to commercial uses of 500 gallons of water a day or more or associated uses to single family dwellings that use 1500 gallons a day or more. MR. DAVIDGE said they have reviewed specific situations directly with the affected citizens and have resolved any problems that have come up. He offered to do that with Senator Miller's constituents. SENATOR MILLER thanked him and announced they did now have a quorum and would act on SCR 16. SENATOR PEARCE moved to pass SCR 16 from Committee with individual recommendations . There were no objections and it was so ordered. Number 360 SENATOR MILLER announced SB 299 (REPEAL ADMINISTRATIVE WATER FEE) to be back before the Committee. GARY NEWMAN, Fairbanks resident, said his fee is one that needs adjusting on 2 basic issues. First of all the fee is not equitable, because except for a few groups like the AJ Mine, Beluga Coal, etc., the others just don't generate much need for a large fee. He also objected to the retroactive clause. MR. DAVIDGE responded that in his case he had a water right that was far in excess of what he was using. He has relinquished voluntarily the water he is no longer using. Under AS 46.15 if they give someone a water right for 5,000 gallons a day and they are actually using 500 gallons a day, they don't have a right to the balance. A lot of these normal relinquishments have not been processed. SENATOR FRANK asked if there were any water use constraints in the state. MR. DAVIDGE said we do have areas of aquifers in stress in Juneau, Kodiak, Anchorage Hillside, and more. Number 449 SENATOR MILLER asked at what point can the Department notify people to reapply for water rights they haven't developed to the point of using, yet, in a stressed area? MR. DAVIDGE replied they issue a five year permit that allows someone to perfect their water rights that can be extended up to two times. If they don't perfect their water rights, they can relinquish the amount of water they are not using or close the file on the application. If a person has water rights, they will be notified of developments that may affect them. This is required in statute. SENATOR LEMAN asked what the actual cost was per billing. MR. DAVIDGE said now that the program is completely computerized, it costs less than $10 per application. SENATOR LEMAN asked what they did with non-compliers? MR. DAVIDGE said they turn them over to collection, but they have very few problems. He said the most water a family would use is 500 gallons a day. He said there is no requirement for people who have a well in their home. Number 506 GARY PROKOSCH, Water Management Development, explained that the law says if you use greater than 500 gallons per day, you must apply. You do not have to apply for under 500 gallons per day up to 10 days per year, but then you have no rights. SENATOR MILLER asked why they have a limit of 1,500 gallons for domestic use and 500 for commercial. MR. PROKOSCH said they did not intend to assess people who have a lot of related uses for lawns, animals, etc. They still have to apply for water rights, but they don't have to pay the fee. SENATOR FRANK asked him if this bill would eliminate all fees or just the little fees. MR. DAVIDGE replied that the way they read the bill it would eliminate the annual $50 administrative service fee. Under this bill people would still pay an application fee. He explained that the state has an on-going administrative responsibility to maintain the water rights. It is extremely important to maintain current information, because there are a lot of water use changes. SENATOR FRANK asked Senator Miller if he was trying to eliminate the annual nuisance factor. SENATOR MILLER said that was correct, but he wanted to make sure that was all they eliminated. SENATOR ADAMS noted that the administration was against the legislation. He thought it would also be against the amendment. He asked how the loss of revenue from collection of the fee, $117,000, would affect the Department. MR. DAVIDGE answered that means he would probably have to lay off 1 full time adjudicator and reduce another adjudicator to half time. He said he has over 2,000 permitting actions he can't get done, even now. Because of his inability to process them, these projects can't move forward. SENATOR ADAMS noted that a couple of years ago they passed SB 66, the fees bill enabling various agencies to pay for their own programs. He said this bill was going backwards in that respect. SENATOR MILLER said he intended to work on the legislation some more and adjourned the meeting at 4:18 p.m.