SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE March 10, 1993 3:50 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Mike Miller, Chairman Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman Senator Steve Frank Senator Drue Pearce MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Al Adams Senator Fred Zharoff Senator Dave Donley COMMITTEE CALENDAR Confirmation Hearings for Board of Game Members: Jack Didrickson, Ernest Polley, Anne K. Ruggles, and Roger Huntington. Presentation by Water and Wastewater Advisory Board PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION No previous action to record. WITNESS REGISTER Roger Huntington P.O. Box 10 Galena, Alaska 99741 Anne K. Ruggles P.O. Box 82950 Fairbanks, Alaska 99708 Jack Didrickson P.O. Box 712 Palmer, Alaska 99645 Ernie Polley 634 W 12th Juneau, Alaska 99801 John George Alaska Outdoor Council 9515 Moraine Way Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Mr. Didrickson's confirmation. Jim Baldwin, Assistant Attorney General Department of Law P.O. Box 110300 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Mr. Didrickson's legal position. Jerry Luckhaupt, Legislative Counsel Legislative Affairs Agency 130 Seward Street, #402 Juneau, Alaska 99801-2105 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Mr. Didrickson's legal position. Hugh Doogan 359 Slater Street Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Board of Game confirmations. John Hargesheimer P.O. Box 10134 Fairbanks, Alaska 99710 POSITION STATEMENT: Gave Water and Wastewater Advisory Board presentation. Floyd Damron CH2M Hill 2550 Denali St., 8th Floor Anchorage, Alaska 99503 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Water and Wastewater. Jim Berg 18765 May Ct. Circle Eagle River, Alaska 99577 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Water and Wastewater. Eric Lindboe 8650 Glenn Hwy. Anchorage, Alaska 99504 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Water and Wastewater. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 93-14, SIDE A Number 001 SENATOR MILLER called the Resources Committee meeting to order at 3:50 p.m and announced they would begin with the Board of Game members. ROGER HUNTINGTON, Yukon River, via teleconference, said he was interested in serving on the Game Board and would answer questions. There were no questions and SENATOR MILLER thanked him and introduced Anne K. Ruggles. Number 48 ANNE K. RUGGLES, Fairbanks, said she was a professional biologist and professional educator. SENATOR LEMAN asked her to share her thoughts on elk transplanting, moose farming, and intensive game management. MS. RUGGLES said, in general, she would rather not see legislative action that mandated the Board to take specific actions. The Board needs to consider relevant biological and ecological information for any given area. She said that intensive management is a tool that can be used if the fiscal and public support is available. She is not opposed to intensive management as a philosophy. However, Alaska is an arctic ecosystem where most nutrients are tied up in dead organic matter. She has not seen any areas in Alaska in which she would consider using intensive management as a tool. Number 124 SENATOR MILLER asked her if she favored predator control and which methods did she favor. MS. RUGGLES responded that predator control is a viable management tool. The tricky part is deciding when you have the ecological conditions in which predator control will work, because it will not work everywhere under all circumstances. She said if you do decide to use control, it ought to be efficient and humane. Helicopters allow you to make as clean and clear a shot as can be made, she added. SENATOR MILLER asked if she would support aerial hunting. She said she did not support aerial "hunting," by the public, but supported the Department doing the control activities. Number 230 JACK DIDRICKSON, Palmer resident, said he started with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game in 1959 as a game biologist and retired in 1987. He wanted to continue being on the Game Board, because he thinks everything is directed back to people. He believed that wolves and other animals belong to the public. He thought the permits for predator control should be issued to the people, except for situations like the 40 mile caribou herd where it is only possible to get to an animal with a helicopter. Number 266 SENATOR LEMAN said the legislature had to choose between him and Mr. Polley and asked him to state why they should choose him. MR. DIDRICKSON said that he didn't resign. He was just told he wasn't going to be on the Board any longer. He does not know why. He wanted to protect his name and reputation. Number 299 ERNIE POLLEY, Juneau resident, said he would love to have the opportunity to serve on the Game Board with Jack Didrickson. He said his post secondary career was in game management and he was familiar with game and resource allocation issues in Alaska. Number 323 SENATOR MILLER asked if he was in favor of predator control. MR. POLLEY said he agreed with predator control being a management tool. SENATOR MILLER asked him how he felt about the methods used in predator control. MR. POLLEY said ideally you would use the most humane and cost efficient method available. Politically speaking, however, if the public was not supportive for whatever reason of that method, it just couldn't be an option at that time. Abandoning predator control is totally inappropriate. Number 355 JOHN GEORGE, Alaska Outdoor Council, said although they have nothing against Mr. Polley, they do support Mr. Didrickson, as a matter of policy. He is entitled to stay on the Board unless there is a finding that he is not a qualified candidate. SENATOR PEARCE asked if there was a formal letter from the Governor to the legislature asking the legislature to remove Mr. Didrickson's name. SENATOR MILLER answered no, but they do have an opinion from a legislative attorney saying Mr. Didrickson is a viable candidate. Number 374 SENATOR FRANK asked if their recommendations for the other candidates in the letter dated January 9, 1993 were still relevant. MR. GEORGE said it was still relevant and he noted a letter dated March 9, 1993 that specifically supported Mr. Didrickson. Number 385 JIM BALDWIN, Assistant Attorney General, said their interpretation of the event is that the legislature has only one name before them which is Ernie Polley. The meaning of "appointment" is the focus of the disagreement, MR. BALDWIN said. He explained that an appointment is made up of 3 or 4 acts and before it's made final, it can be withdrawn by the Governor. The legislature takes up the question of confirmation upon transmittal of a name from the Governor. Until there is a conveyance of a permanent office, there is no vested right in that office which would give an individual standing to bring an action to contest title to that office. There has been no removal of Mr. Didrickson for cause from his office. His name has simply not been submitted to the legislature. MR. BALDWIN emphasized that there could be litigation over the validity of any action these individuals partake in if a question remains regarding the appointment. If the legislature votes to confirm Mr. Polley, the best and most unassailable legal answer to his title to office would be that upon adjournment of the legislature, he would be fully clothed with the powers, because at that point Mr. Didrickson's name would not have not been taken up or confirmed, and he would have lost all claim to the office any way. Number 460 SENATOR PEARCE asked if he had seen anything in writing that explains why the Governor chose not to send Mr. Didrickson's name to the legislature. MR. BALDWIN said he had no idea what the motivation might be. He didn't think a reason was required. SENATOR PEARCE stated that Mr. Didrickson had been acting as a voting Board member and asked what was the legal standing of everything the Board had done since he sat with them. MR. BALDWIN said that every action they took was valid, because it was taken pursuant to 39.05.080 which gives him an interim right to serve on the Board until fully confirmed. This is a very limited right to that office. MR. BALDWIN said the Department's interpretation was based on Alaskan cases and Alaska history and a consistent line of interpretation. SENATOR PEARCE said her counsel to him was to go to the Governor and suggest we stick with the person who has been serving on the Board and not even get into this battle with the legislature. SENATOR MILLER asked if Mr. Didrickson was confirmed on the floor, what would his advice to the Governor be? MR. BALDWIN said he wasn't sure what it would be, but there might be a cloud over his claim to the office, at least. Number 507 JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Legislative Counsel, said he did sight Alaska cases for his opinion which says the Governor executed this last act when he appointed Mr. Didrickson in the interim. Both the constitution and statutes say Mr. Didrickson was entitled to his office at that time and he is entitled to serve until the legislature fails to confirm or until the Governor can remove him for cause. He commented that it was odd that Mr. Didrickson will be a lame duck member of the Board until the end of session which didn't seem to be right. Number 545 HUGH DOOGAN, Fairbanks, supported Susan Entsminger, Jack Didrickson, Roger Huntington, Ernie Polley, and Anne Ruggles, because he thought they would represent all the people of Alaska and not special interests. He supported the bounty system of predator control, because it would help people subsidize their income. Number 564 SENATOR MILLER thanked everyone for their participation and announced they would next take up the Water and Wastewater Works Advisory Board. JOHN HARGESHEIMER, Board member, said their purpose before the Committee was to introduce themselves and explain their duties. The Board advises the Department of Environmental Conservation and is made up of professional engineers, operators, and water and wastewater utility managers from all over the state. He, then, introduced Floyd Damron, Mark Buggins, Eric Lindboe, John Miko, Ernst Mueller, and Jim Berg, Water Board members in the audience. TAPE 93-14, SIDE B Number 580 MR. HARGESHEIMER said their primary purposes are operator certification, training issues, and funding. The primary message they want to deliver is that they are a source of information and resources the legislators could use more. Number 569 SENATOR LEMAN asked about the man who died in Hooper Bay from malfunctioning fluoridation equipment. MR. HARGESHEIMER said one of their main concerns is that operators of these huge multimillion dollar facilities need to be properly trained and certified. The Hooper Bay incident most likely happened because the remote maintenance position was vacant at the time the incident occurred. The Soldotna chlorine situation is another example of what they feel is an operator training and certification issue. Number 515 SENATOR FRANK asked him about the septic system approval issue. MR. HARGESHEIMER said that was not a direct issue with the Board. Number 498 FLOYD DAMRON, Board member, said that bush dysentery is rampant. Hepatitis is also around. Bush communities do not have running water and sewer like we have in our major communities. SENATOR LEMAN asked Mr. Hargesheimer's opinion on what they should be working towards in light of the limited budget. MR. HARGESHEIMER replied there are new requirements from the federal level in both water and waste water and prioritizing costs is very difficult. They should focus on providing minimal levels of both water and waste water services. JIM BERG, Board member, said with the primacy regulations passing, of 200 rural systems only 5 had qualified operators. That means there are 195 systems out there without qualified operators. He encouraged them to use the Board as a resource to find out what new regulations were coming out and what could be done. MR. HARGESHEIMER said if you can get operators knowledgeable and trained on what they do have, they can not only protect the capital asset, they can identify the public health issues when they become public health issues. They can then help their village decide what to do with the funds that they have. Number 404 MR. DAMRON said facilities should not be put into a community that is not contributing some portion of the cost of that facility, either in money or in-kind service. He said they needed more than $1 billion in new construction to meet the regulations on the books today and EPA has more regulations coming. He personally thought a community should contribute at least 10%. MR. HARGESHEIMER agreed that 10% participation should be the minimum. Number 344 SENATOR LEMAN asked Mr. Ernie Mueller his opinion of DEC permit procedures, etc. MR. MUELLER said his communications with the Department have been mostly with the Water and Wastewater Program, Clean Water Act, and the grant program. The people he works with have been very helpful in getting grants, audits, and inspections by the Corps of Engineers. Number 264 ERIC LINDBOE said he dealt with DEC since he came into the industry 13 years ago. He has seen their responsibility grow as regulations have come down from EPA. As the responsibilities have grown, the Department has reduced, and is continuing to reduce, in size. The Department has attempted to continue larger services with smaller staff and they have done a marvelous job. The operator certification program has grown beyond what they ever expected. MR. HARGESHEIMER added that he thought DEC tries very hard to do a good job. He said they are trying to implement a lot of programs with fewer funds. He feels they need to cut programs rather than reduce them, because the programs are so lean now, that they would be better off using reduced funding on select programs and fund them adequately. Number 182 SENATOR MILLER adjourned the meeting at 5:25 p.m.