JOINT MEETING OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEES March 8, 1993 8:00 a.m. HOUSE RESOURCES MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Bill Williams, Chairman Representative Bill Hudson, Vice Chairman Representative Con Bunde Representative Pat Carney Representative John Davies Representative Joe Green Representative Jeannette James Representative Eldon Mulder Representative David Finkelstein HOUSE RESOURCES MEMBERS ABSENT None SENATE RESOURCES MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman Senator Drue Pearce Senator Dave Donley Senator Fred Zharoff SENATE RESOURCES MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Mike Miller, Chairman Senator Steve Frank Senator Al Adams OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT Representative Irene Nicholia Representative Carl Moses COMMITTEE CALENDAR Confirmation Hearing: Board of Fisheries Appointees: Larry Edfelt John Hanson Dick Jacobsen Deborah Lyons Board of Game Appointee: Susan Entsminger TESTIMONY HEARD, NO ACTION ON CONFIRMATION WITNESS REGISTER John Hanson, Appointee Board of Fisheries Box One Alakanuk, Alaska 99554 Phone: 238-3016 Position Statement: Provided information and answered questions related to his appointment Dick Jacobsen, Appointee Board of Fisheries P.O. Box 43 Sand Point, Alaska 99661 Phone: 383-2042 Position Statement: Provided information and answered questions related to his appointment Representative Irene Nicholia Alaska House of Representatives State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 Phone: 465-4527 Position Statement: Questioned appointees Deborah Lyons, Member Board of Fisheries Box 296 Petersburg, Alaska 99833 Phone: 772-3572 Position Statement: Provided information and answered questions related to her re-appointment Susan Entsminger, Appointee Board of Game Mile 91, Tok Cutoff Tok, Alaska 99780 Position Statement: Provided information and answered questions related to her re-appointment Russell Heath Alaska Environmental Lobby P.O. Box 22151 Juneau, Alaska 99802 Phone: 463-3366 Position Statement: Observer John George Alaska Outdoor Council 9515 Moraine Way Juneau, Alaska 99801 Phone: 789-0172 Position Statement: Observer ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 93-25, SIDE A Number 000 The Joint Meeting of the House and Senate Resources Committees was called to order by Representative Bill Williams, Chairman of the House Resources Committee, at 8:14 a.m. House members present at the call to order were Representatives Williams, Hudson, Bunde, Carney, Davies, Green, James, Finkelstein and Mulder. Senate Resources Committee members present at the call to order were Senator Leman (Acting Chair) and Senator Pearce. CHAIRMAN BILL WILLIAMS noted the joint meeting was being held by teleconference with sites in Anchorage, Fairbanks, Valdez, Ketchikan, Soldotna, Kenai, and Barrow. SENATOR LOREN LEMAN, ACTING CHAIR OF SENATE RESOURCES, thanked the House Resources members for the opportunity to hear testimony in a joint meeting. He anticipated other senate members to join the meeting as it proceeded. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the purpose of the meeting was to hear testimony from four appointees to the Board of Fisheries, and one appointee to the Board of Game. He said the remaining appointees to the Board of Game would testify during the meeting scheduled for Wednesday, March 10, 1993. He mentioned the Boards of Game and Fisheries were meeting in Juneau, so most of the board members were able to appear personally in legislative hearings. He added if there was not enough time to complete all public testimony, another meeting would be scheduled for that purpose. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS introduced the first Board of Fisheries appointee for consideration, John Hanson. Mr. Hanson was appointed to his first term in 1989, Chairman Williams said, and his second term would conclude in 1995. JOHN HANSON, MEMBER, BOARD OF FISHERIES, testified by teleconference from Alakanuk. He advised that he had fulfilled his first three-year term on the Board of Fisheries, and was re-appointed in July, 1992, for a second three-year term by Governor Hickel. He said his first priority on the board is the conservation of fisheries' stocks, and his second is subsistence. He noted he is a subsistence fisherman, and is committed to giving his best effort to the board. Number 142 REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE asked Mr. Hanson to comment on mixed stock fisheries, and how to sort out the problem of allowing fair allotments. Number 155 MR. HANSON answered that the mixed stock question requires more data from the Department of Fish and Game before the Board can deal with the problem and develop mixed stock regulations in the future that will assure fish being spread out all along the river. Number 188 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Mr. Hanson what he saw as the best means of conserving and enhancing fish stocks. MR. HANSON recommended curtailing some fisheries at the lower end of the river. Number 205 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted Representative Nicholia had joined the meeting. Number 216 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked Mr. Hanson whether there was adequate biological data for conservation and mixed stock decisions. MR. HANSON responded that the Board does not have all the biological data it needs. He said the Department of Fish and Game gives the board the data it has, but budget restrictions limit the amount of data that can be gathered. REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN commented on Mr. Hanson's many years of commercial fishing experience, and asked Mr. Hanson whether he could be objective in determining fish quotas among commercial and sport fishing interests. Number 252 MR. HANSON responded that throughout his years on the Board of Fish, he has worked for both segments. He noted sometimes achieving balance requires voting in the opposite direction of one's own personal interest. When there are insufficient stocks, he said, the first priority is reaching escapement. Then remaining fish are allocated among the commercial, sport and subsistence fisheries, he explained. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented on the anticipated reduction in red salmon in the coming season, and noted the Kenai has been reduced for sports fishing, by about one-third. He asked Mr. Hanson if he felt commercial fishing should also be reduced proportionately. Number 275 MR. HANSON said the board had dealt with the Kenai and Cook Inlet issues in November, 1992. He said sport fishing was reduced and commercial fishing on Cook Inlet was reduced somewhat and, if escapement was not reached for 1993, the board would give the Department of Fish and Game notice. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Hanson to clarify his stand on the reduction of sportfishing. MR. HANSON answered that if sportfishing were curtailed, commercial fishing would also be curtailed because both play a role in reductions in a fishery where escapement goals are not being reached. Number 318 REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER referred to limitations on the Kenai on sport-caught red salmon, which he noted were recently restricted by the Department of Fish and Game to two per day. He asked Mr. Hanson whether he would propose reopening the allocations on the Kenai for reds for commercial fishing. MR. HANSON responded by clarifying that he had said if the Department of Fish and Game sees escapement is not being reached, then both sport and commercial fishing would have to be curtailed. Number 345 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER noted restrictions were already being imposed on sportfishing, but did not see anything being done with commercial fishing. Number 353 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked whether anyone else had questions for Mr. Hanson. Hearing no response, he thanked Mr. Hanson for his testimony, and announced the committee would next hear from Dick Jacobsen, a new appointee to the Board of Fisheries whose term would expire in 1996. Number 365 DICK JACOBSEN, APPOINTEE TO THE BOARD OF FISHERIES, addressed the committee by telling of his background as a longtime commercial fisherman from Sand Point who has been involved in local government and Native corporation management. He noted his familiarity with the Board of Fisheries' process since 1966, and his participation in a number of different fisheries. He commented on his limited knowledge of sports fisheries and his unfamiliarity with fishing on the Kenai River. Number 390 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER remarked to Mr. Jacobsen that one of the biggest challenges to be faced as a member of the board would be to reach a balance between the interests of sport and commercial fishing. He asked how Mr. Jacobsen viewed his role in reaching that balance. Number 400 MR. JACOBSEN responded that he expected to use the information provided by the Department of Fish and Game and the knowledge of the other members of the board. He added he is an advocate of the board system, and said with good board members who use the information available to them, it does not matter what area of the state or what walk of life they are from; they would make rational decisions. He hoped the board would keep politics out of its decisions. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER commented that given Mr. Jacobsen's commercial fishing background, it would be natural for him to have a bias toward commercial fishing interests. He asked Mr. Jacobsen if he felt he could be objective, and his opinion on the best use of fisheries resources. Number 421 MR. JACOBSEN answered that the highest priority would be putting food on the table, and added in commercial fishing that is essentially what is at stake. He believed he could be objective enough to listen to the expertise of the staff and other board members to come to rational decisions. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Jacobsen to comment on the mixed stock issue and conservation of individual stocks, given the heavy fishing in an environment of mixed stock fisheries. Number 436 MR. JACOBSEN commented that essentially every fishery in Alaska is a mixed stock fishery to some degree. If the board were to develop a policy to regulate the fisheries to ensure escapement and protect the resource, he said, the board would be doing its job. He added the board could not resolve all the individual problems of every region. Number 450 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES posed the hypothetical circumstance to Mr. Jacobsen of escapement being seriously jeopardized by the level of intercept fisheries, and asked Mr. Jacobsen whether he would, in that circumstance, vote to reduce the total level of intercept fisheries. MR. JACOBSEN replied that if information provided to the board showed the mixed stock fishery was detrimental to the stock, then he would be in favor of restricting that fishery. Number 460 REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA raised the issue of Mr. Jacobsen's role as mayor of the Aleutians East Borough, and his lobbying for interests of area fishermen. She noted his activities toward doing away with a chum cap, and asked whether he could look at that issue fairly as a member of the board. Number 471 MR. JACOBSEN believed he could be fair. He remarked on the level of information the board has available from the Department of Fish and Game, and said he did not think the board always had enough information to work with. If the information showed actions were detrimental to the chum stock, he felt he could deal with the issue fairly. REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked Mr. Jacobsen's feelings on formulation of mixed stock fishery policy to be considered later in March, 1993. She asked his position on further extension of intercept fisheries, such as Area M and North Peninsula. MR. JACOBSEN referred to the mixed stock policy as needing a lot of work and information-gathering. He added mixed stock policy will have to be broad based and the board will not be able to "micro-manage" every regional concern. Number 493 VICE CHAIR BILL HUDSON noted there has been much concern about intercept fisheries. He asked Mr. Jacobsen what tool might help the board make decisions that would deal with the value of the fisheries. He commented that the board does not always take into consideration where the money is going; specifically, he addressed the question of board decisions on fisheries that send the larger value of the fish to the Pacific Northwest, versus a decision that would equalize the value from the fisheries. MR. JACOBSEN responded that the board could benefit from that approach. He stressed retaining the economic value of the fisheries within Alaska was a high priority. Number 516 VICE CHAIR HUDSON asked Mr. Jacobsen whether he was prepared to commit to the time required to serve on the Board of Fisheries. MR. JACOBSEN affirmed his understanding of the requirements and was willing to make that commitment. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted Representative Carl Moses had joined the meeting. Number 529 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN raised the subject of value-added opportunities in the fisheries. In particular, he pointed to the multiplier effect of sport fishing, and asked Mr. Jacobsen his attitude about the per pound value of commercial fishing leaving the state, as opposed to the value that stays in the state and is spread among various industries with the sport fisheries. After escapement is reached, but stocks are low, he asked Mr. Jacobsen how the remaining fish should be allocated among sport and commercial fishing interests. MR. JACOBSEN answered that with a particular stock, it would be possible for the board to look at that balance, but for the state overall, the board would need to gather all available information and it may be difficult to broadly apply such a policy. Number 559 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN acknowledged regional differences, and noted the Department of Fish and Game had indicated that heavily used sport fishing areas, such as the Kenai, will be adversely affected by reductions of one-third the limit of red salmon. He asked Mr. Jacobsen whether a comparable reduction should be imposed on commercial fishing in the area. MR. JACOBSEN said as a new appointee to the board, he has not seen all the information and did not feel qualified to know whether the resource was in trouble. On that issue, he said, he would benefit from the expertise of the other members of the board. Number 577 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented that he hears mostly from personal use or sports fishermen, although he does have commercial fishermen in his district. He noted there seems to be an illusion that the Board of Fisheries is dominated by commercial fishing interests. He asked Mr. Jacobsen to describe his philosophy on the value of sport and commercial fishing. MR. JACOBSEN affirmed he appreciates the value of sport fishing and, regarding the illusion of a bias toward commercial fishing interests, he reiterated his feeling that if board members use the information available to them and make rational decisions, it should not matter what background or region the individuals come from. He believed the members could adequately represent the interests of sport, subsistence and commercial fishing. Number 608 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked Mr. Jacobsen whether, as a commercial fisherman, he would recommend cuts in commercial allocations to preserve the resource in his area if the board received scientific information that justified such a decision. MR. JACOBSEN confirmed he would make such a decision. REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES addressed the issues of conservation and subsistence, and asked Mr. Jacobsen how he would prioritize the use of fish. Number 620 MR. JACOBSEN listed protection of the resource as his highest priority, with subsistence next, followed by a balance of other uses of the resource. Number 630 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the next appointee for consideration would be Deborah Lyons, who was first appointed in 1990, and has been reappointed to a term to end in 1996. Number 640 DEBORAH LYONS, MEMBER, BOARD OF FISHERIES, told the committee she is from Petersburg, and she commercial fishes with her husband and sport fishes for personal use. Number 646 SENATOR LEMAN asked Ms. Lyons to explain her attitude toward advisory committees and how their recommendations affect the decisions of the board. MS. LYONS responded that the advisory committees provide direct input into the affected communities, and assure fair representation. She added it would be difficult for the board to make well-informed decisions without strong advisory committees. Number 660 SENATOR LEMAN said he had received comments from one advisory committee which felt slighted by the board. He asked Ms. Lyons to comment. MS. LYONS believed Senator Leman was referring to an incident involving another Board member, not herself. She said the chairman of the fisheries board usually assures an atmosphere of mutual respect and allows input. Generally, she stated, the standard of respect is high and the board values the advisory committees. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER commented that Ms. Lyon's reappointment to the board has drawn opposition from various sport fishing groups, and asked her to address the reasons why that opposition exists. Number 677 MS. LYONS had not seen a list of endorsements and opposition, and so did not know who specifically was standing in opposition. She commented that she recognizes the value of sport fishing to Alaska and has tried to be fair in listening to various points of view. She said the Board of Fisheries set a new precedent when it made its king salmon allocations in Southeast between commercial and recreational fishing interests. She speculated that because she comes from a commercial fishing background, some opposition to the board's decision was attached to her personally. She added she had written the finding on that decision, which should indicate the board trusted her to be unbiased. She stressed the board faces tough decisions in balancing the interests of subsistence, commercial and sport fishing. Number 698 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER identified some of the groups opposing Ms. Lyons' reappointment who had submitted letters to the Resources committee. They included the Alaska Sportfishing Association and Ketchikan Marine Charters, Inc. TAPE 93-25, SIDE B Number 000 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Ms. Lyons her position on the issue of limiting the number of sport caught fish that could be shipped out of state. MS. LYONS replied the board had heard reports of abuses of sport fish bag limits, with excessive amounts being taken out of state. She said the board formed a committee, composed of the chair and the co-chair, who were both sports fishermen, and Robin Samuelson from Dillingham. That committee developed a proposal for public comment to deal with the issue of an export limit. The department drafted the proposal based on the committee's recommendations, and when the board went into its statewide meeting, she said things "hit the fan." The proposal came out with a one-day bag limit for export, which she said was not the board's intent in drafting the proposal. She noted she had not been involved in drafting the proposal. As a board member, she said her goal was not to be burdensomely restrictive, but to deal with the abuse of bag limits. Number 058 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES commented on the mixed stock fisheries' issue and escapement on the Yukon. He noted there is a perception in his district that commercial fishing and intercept fisheries are unfairly impacting the escapement into the Yukon system. He said public sentiment is that the board has not required enough of a restriction on the mixed stock situation. He asked Ms. Lyons to comment on that situation. Number 079 MS. LYONS replied that tagging studies on the Yukon River did not show evidence that chum salmon were impacted by the activities of the commercial fisheries. She added there was a strong indication that stocks from the Kuskokwim might be affected. The information was taken into account, she explained, when the board made its decisions. Some hardship may have been created on the Yukon, she said, after the board's action two years ago when harvest levels were lowered all along the river. She referred to the pending treaty with Canada, and anticipated seeing more restrictive management in the mixed stock fisheries of the Yukon. Number 115 MS. LYONS remarked that one of the best actions the board had taken was to recognize the Yukon River Drainage Fishermen's Association. That organization, she said, had obtained funding and will come before the Board of Fisheries with recommendations to manage the fishery. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES, referring to the data used by the board, asked whether that data showed clearly there was no impact on the intercept fishery, or that the data was inadequate to answer that question. MS. LYONS responded that stocks bound for various areas are taken in intercept fisheries, and the numbers will vary from year to year with changes in a number of factors, such as the weather. She said she would welcome funding to do more tagging and stock assessment so the board would have complete information on which to base its decisions. She clarified for Representative Davies that the data available to the board did not show a clear impact. Number 161 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE referred to the controversy over Cook Inlet commercial-caught versus sport-caught kings. He commented that the value of a sport-caught fish is around ten times that of commercial-caught. He asked Ms. Lyons to comment on the controversy over commercial charter and hand- troller/power-troller fishing. MS. LYONS said wild stocks of king salmon managed under the current treaty with Canada are allocated to Alaska in a fixed number: 263,000 fish, each year. That number is divided among commercial and sport fisheries, she explained, and the Board of Fisheries was asked to make an allocation decision because the sport harvest was seeing exponential increases over the last three years. The reasons she cited included good weather, growth in resident sport fishing, and high abundance of king salmon. She noted there was also growth in the charter sport fishing industry. That segment of sport fishing has increased, in part, because of a growing clientele coming from cruise ships. MS. LYONS explained Sitka and Ketchikan have been particularly affected by the increase in charter sport fishing. She commented that the Board of Fisheries attempted to make an allocation decision that would balance the needs of all the participants in the fishery. Another goal was more in-season management, she added, which would help the board acquire current data to bring to the treaty negotiations. Because the fishery was growing so fast and data was not current, she said Alaska almost found itself out of compliance with the treaty. Number 215 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE noted the legislature will be looking at the privatization of hatcheries, and asked Ms. Lyons her position on the move toward privatization. Number 239 MS. LYONS explained the board had written to the Senate Fisheries Committee in 1992, regarding problems seen in enhancement programs, and in response, she said, the legislature passed the wild stock priority bill. She added that as privatization proceeds, the Department of Fish and Game should keep its monitoring role to assure the programs provide healthy fish stocks. She stressed the importance of interaction and response between the department and the hatcheries. Number 257 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN remarked on the perception in areas with strong sport fishing interests that the board is biased toward commercial fishing interests. He asked Ms. Lyons whether, in times of stock reductions, she felt the board has an adequate sense of the resource to cut back on one portion of the fishery before the escapement count is known, and not cut back on another portion. More specifically, he asked if the commercial fishery allocation should be reduced to the benefit of the sport fishing fishery, given the ten- fold multiplier on the value of sport-caught fish versus commercially caught fish. Number 295 SENATOR FRED ZHAROFF interjected that he would like clarification on where various fisheries fit in the category of commercial versus non-commercial, given such activities as charter sport-fishing, which are revenue-generating, but still classified as sport-fishing. Number 331 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN differentiated between sport and commercial fishing as being a matter of indiscriminate fishing versus discriminate fishing. He also pointed to whether fish was caught for personal use. He noted also the difference between net-caught and pole-caught fish. He commented that he did not want to argue semantics, but rather to determine whether there was a bias on the Board of Game toward commercial fishing. Number 370 SENATOR ZHAROFF again raised the question of where charter boat fishing fits into the definitions of commercial versus sport fishing. He considered the personal sport fishing use of the resource in a "personal use" category, whereas he would consider as commercial sport fishing the revenue- generating activity of, for example, a tourist from Germany who fishes at a lodge or on a charter boat. Using that definition, he saw the Kenai as important for the commercial sport fishing interests, and less important for personal use sport fishermen. Number 395 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS commented that the question of defining categories of fishing activities would be considered by the board, and the purpose for the current joint Resources meeting was to hear from the appointees. He noted Senator Donley had joined the meeting. Number 405 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN restated his question to Ms. Lyons regarding the board's position on commercial fishing (which he defined as net caught) versus sport fishing (or line caught) interests. MS. LYONS acknowledged Representative Green's concerns about "reds" on the Kenai. She remarked that reds had been readily available and she was not aware that the bag limit had been lowered in anticipation of decreased returns to the Kenai. If returns are decreased, she said the commercial fisheries will see a decrease in overall catches also. One reason for changes in regulations on the Kenai she said, including the moving of dip net fishing below the bridge from boats rather than from the banks, was due to a concern about bank erosion and its effect on habitat. Number 432 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented that, in effect, the sportfishing is down by edict but nothing has happened with reducing commercial fishing. He asked Ms. Lyons if, or how, she might rectify the situation. MS. LYONS said, given the amount of sockeyes that go into the river, she did not see a one or two-fish change in the bag limit significantly changing the escapement. Given any surplus in escapements, she felt prior bag limits should be maintained. REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked Ms. Lyons what considerations she would give to the management of weak stocks, in light of the fact that the board has no mixed stock policy to use in making allocations in an intercept fishery. She specifically referred to Susitna River reds and Norton Sound chum, and questioned Ms. Lyons' voting record regarding whether to sustain or expand intercept fisheries. Number 450 MS. LYONS, in reference to her voting record, explained that she looked at all the information available, and if she believed that fishery would hurt the conservation and long- term management of the stock, she would not support it. She referred also to in-season management efforts of the Department of Fish and Game in trying to prevent over- escapement. REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA addressed the management of the Lower Yukon fishery, and commented on the failure of the department to implement closures. Number 482 REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN also addressed the Susitna River red salmon problem, and commented on lower escapements. He asked Ms. Lyons what could be done in relation to conservation of fish stocks. MS. LYONS discussed the management options available, and noted the main difficulty seems to be with the big Kenai runs, and letting the drift fleet harvest all over Cook Inlet. She said the board would have to look at some kind of management to move them off the stocks to allow escapement. Number 508 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Ms. Lyons if she was committed to resolution of the problem with the incidental catch of king salmon by commercial users, and how the policies can be enforced. MS. LYONS agreed the incidental catch was a difficult issue. She noted it seems to be the inside nets that catch the most king salmon. She said one response to the problem that has been discussed is a policy of non-retention, but that raised the question of whether it would reduce the catch or just create waste of the fish. She told the committee she and the board are open to ideas on the issue. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Ms. Lyons to describe what she would consider to be an appropriate balance in the composition of the Board of Fisheries. MS. LYONS responded that ideally the board should be comprised of two subsistence, two commercial, and two sport fishermen, as well as one woman. Number 540 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS told the committee that in the interest of time, Board of Fisheries' appointee Larry Edfelt of Juneau would be asked to address the committee at another time, in order to allow testimony from Board of Game appointee Susan Entsminger. He noted the term to which Ms. Entsminger was appointed began in January, 1993, and would expire in January, 1996. Number 561 SUSAN ENTSMINGER, APPOINTEE TO THE BOARD OF GAME, described her experiences in hunting, trapping, and fishing. She said she had spent 16 years in rural Alaska, and felt she could bring a diverse perspective to the board. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Ms. Entsminger to describe her perspective on rural subsistence priorities. MS. ENTSMINGER commented that subsistence was a complicated issue and one that should be addressed by the legislature. Number 584 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES rephrased his question and asked Ms. Entsminger whether she generally felt subsistence was an important use of the game resources. MS. ENTSMINGER responded by saying that in the face of federal takeover of lands for subsistence, it is important for the state to get management of the lands back. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES raised that question of intensive game management, and specifically, the recent decisions on wolf management. He asked Ms. Entsminger about the appropriateness of the intensive management. Number 601 MS. ENTSMINGER referred to the state's constitution and its provisions for sustained yield. She said there were times when intensive management would be called for, and the board should take all available information into account to make decisions. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Ms. Entsminger whether in the three areas involved in the recent situation, intensive management decisions were appropriate. MS. ENTSMINGER commented that she was not yet on the board when those decisions were made, but added that she had been involved for nine years in the advisory committee process. Based on the information, she felt in the case of the 40- mile country, the decision was appropriate. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Ms. Entsminger whether she would support the resumption of land and shoot policies as a method of predator control. Number 620 MS. ENTSMINGER answered that she did not look at land and shoot as a management tool. Number 629 VICE CHAIR HUDSON posed to Ms. Entsminger the question regarding the time commitment required for service on the board and whether she was able and willing to make that commitment. MS. ENTSMINGER affirmed she would make the commitment of time to serve on the Board of Game. Number 636 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE remarked on the list of licenses and permits held by Ms. Entsminger as noted on her resume. He commented on the revenue base provided for wildlife management from such fees, toward the goal of sustained yield. He asked Ms. Entsminger what involvement she may have had in the process that recently resulted in board decisions on wolf population management. Number 658 MS. ENTSMINGER remarked that she had participated in the advisory committee process for nine years. She called the advisory process important and expressed hope that funding would be continued for advisory committees. She noted she did not participate in the wolf plan advisory committee. Number 670 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to Ms. Entsminger's resume, and to two letters of opposition the House Resources Committee had received from the Alaska Wildlife Alliance and the Alaska Environmental Lobby. He asked Ms. Entsminger whether she anticipated adverse effects from the opposition and asked whether, if confirmed, she felt the opposition would affect her ability to make fair decisions. MS. ENTSMINGER did not feel her decisions would be affected by the opposition. REPRESENTATIVE MULDER addressed wildlife issues such as conservation and hunting policies, and asked whether Ms. Entsminger felt changes were needed in the state's approach to conservation versus hunting and trapping. Number 696 MS. ENTSMINGER noted misconceptions on the wolf issue, and stressed the importance of communication between tourism interests and sport hunting interests. TAPE 93-26, SIDE A Number 000 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN referred to Ms. Entsminger's answer to Representative Mulder's question, and said it seemed the view of tourism interests was not taken seriously. He asked Ms. Entsminger her views on non- consumptive users of wildlife resources, and whether she considered those views as valid to the board. Number 038 MS. ENTSMINGER remarked again on the lack of communication, and stressed the need for open discussion of views from a variety of interests. Number 048 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS closed testimony by the appointees to the Board of Game and the Board of Fisheries. Number 057 SENATOR LEMAN remarked that the Senate Resources Committee intended to hear more testimony in additional hearings. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS added the House Resources Committee would reschedule testimony from Larry Edfelt, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. ANNOUNCEMENTS CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the next meeting of the House Resources Committee would be held at 8:00 a.m. on Wednesday, March 10, to hear testimony from other Board of Game appointees. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to come before the House Resources Committee, Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting at 9:45 a.m.