SENATE LABOR AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE March 6, 1997 1:35 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Loren Leman, Chairman Senator Jerry Mackie, Vice Chairman Senator Tim Kelly Senator Lyman Hoffman MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Mike Miller COMMITTEE CALENDAR CONFIRMATION HEARINGS: Board of Veterinary Examiners William G. Lewis/North Pole (reappointment - unavailable due to eye surgery yesterday) James L. Morris/D.V.M./Wasilla Connie J. Sanders, D.V M./Anchorage Board of Public Accountancy Linda Thomas/Juneau SENATE BILL NO. 92 "An Act relating to veterinarians; extending the termination date of the Board of Veterinary Examiners; and providing for an effective date." -HEARD AND HELD SENATE BILL NO. 88 "An Act relating to the Board of Public Accountancy; extending the termination date of the Board of Public Accountancy; and providing for an effective date." -MOVED CSSB 88(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE SENATE BILL NO. 65 "An Act relating to domestic animals, to food, and to the Alaska Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act; and providing for an effective date." - MOVED CSSB 65(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION SB 92 - No previous action to consider. SB 88 - No previous action to consider. SB 65 - See Labor and Commerce minutes dated 2/13/97, 2/20/97, and 2/27/97. WITNESS REGISTER Ms. Catherine Reardon, Director Division of Occupational Licensing Department of Commerce and Economic Development P.O.Box 110806 Juneau, AK 99811-0806 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 92 and SB 88. Dr. James Leach III, Chairman Board of Veterinary Examiners Big Lake, AK POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 92. Mr. Randy Welker, Legislative Auditor Division of Legislative Audit P.O. Box 113300 Juneau, AK 99811-3300 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 92. Ms. Linda Thomas, Member Board of Public Accountancy P.O. Box 20905 Juneau, AK 99802 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 88. Mr. Charles Griffin, Chairman Board of Public Accountancy P.O. Box 670 Palmer, AK 99645 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 88. Ms. Janice Adair, Director Division of Environmental Health Department of Environmental Conservation 555 Cordova St. Anchorage, AK 99501 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 65. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 97-9, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN LEMAN called the Senate Labor and Commerce Committee meeting to order at 1:36 p.m. He said the Committee would take up confirmation hearings for the Board of Veterinary Examiners and Public Accountancy and that Mr. William Lewis, Board of Veterinary Examiners, was unavailable today due to eye surgery. He asked for comments from Committee members and there were none. CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced Dr. James Morris, Board of Veterinary Examiners, to be reviewed next. MR. MORRIS said he had been a veterinarian in Alaska for 20 years and had a lot of experience that would be valuable to the Board. CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked how long he had been on the Board. DR. MORRIS replied that he had just been appointed and hadn't served, yet. SENATOR HOFFMAN asked him to comment on dogs dying on the Iditarod Trail. DR. MORRIS replied that he wishes it didn't happen, but he thought as long as the number of deaths remained around one or two, that was probably about as good as you could hope for. He said the veterinary staff they have now is doing an excellent job of keeping the number of deaths down. SENATOR MACKIE asked if he was currently on the Iditarod Trail Committee or had been a director. DR. MORRIS said he was formerly a director, but he isn't now. SENATOR MACKIE asked him if he supported the Iditarod. DR. MORRIS replied that he does support it. CHAIRMAN LEMAN commented that there are about 50 teams averaging about 15 dogs per team which adds up to about 750 dogs. He asked how many of a number like that could be expected to die of natural causes if they didn't run over a two-week period. DR. MORRIS said he would expect at least one death among that many dogs. CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if he had been associated with any animal- rights organizations and what were his views of them. DR. MORRIS said he had never been directly associated with a humane society or anything like that. CHAIRMAN LEMAN said they would report to the rest of the Senate and confirmations would be taken up sometime in joint session between now and the end of session. CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced the final Board member to be reviewed was Dr. Connie Sanders. Number 124 DR. CONNIE SANDERS said she had been an Alaska resident for 25 years and a veterinarian for over 10 years. She said she has a variety of experience and the time and energy to be an active member of the Board. Number 156 DR. LINDA THOMAS, CPA for the Board of Public Accountancy, said she had already attended three meetings and thought it was an honor to serve on the Board. She noted that she has a broad range of accounting experience and is interested in the work. SB 92 BOARD OF VETERINARY EXAMINERS; LICENSE  CHAIRMAN LEMAN said they would set the confirmations aside and announced SB 92 to be up for consideration. MS. CATHERINE REARDON, Director, Division of Occupational Licensing, supported SB 92 which extends the sunset date of the Board of Veterinary Examiners. The bill reflects the recommendations made by the Division of Legislative Audit to extend the Board until 2003, a six-year extension. MS. REARDON said the other issue dealt with in the bill, the licensure by credentials for veterinarians, needed some discussion because the audit recommendations differed from what the Board advocated. The Division looks to the Board as experts in this professional area. MS. REARDON explained that the basic issue is whether the people who are trying to come in by credentials (holding a license in another state) should have the same requirements an Alaskan needed at the same time that person was licensed in the other state. Alaska now requires, by regulation, a clinical competence test (CCT) as well as a national board exam (NBE) for licensure. The auditors are recommending that perhaps the clinical competence test not be required of everyone who comes in by credentials. Her impression, however, is that the Board feels that is an important test to have taken. Number 267 SENATOR MACKIE asked her to clarify her position on the bill. MS. REARDON said she supported extension of the Board, the central theme of the bill; and she supported the Board's view of what should be required for licensure by credentials which is different from what is in the bill. CHAIRMAN LEMAN said he believed the six year extension is greater than the legislature has traditionally been extending the boards. Usually it is a four-year cycle. SENATOR MACKIE asked what was wrong with having to pass a national board exam that was in effect at the time the applicant became licensed. He said they have been trying to give boards the opportunity to upgrade and have a national standard to follow. MS. REARDON agreed that opportunities for licensure by credential are important and we don't want to keep people from coming to the State, particularly because we have Canadian veterinarians who need to be able to come and go and practice in Alaska. Lines 11 and 12 on page 1 are ungainly comparing periods of history in two states. The issue starts on line 14 with the requirement of graduation from an accredited school of veterinary medicine and the deletion of "or successfully passed the National Board Education Commission for Foreign Veterinary Graduates' test." It also appears that instead of having to pass both the National Board exam and the competency test, they are only going to have to pass the National Board exam. The issue focuses on a test called the Clinical Competence Test (CCT). This bill seems to remove that requirement from people coming in by credentials. DR. LEACH, Chairman, Board of Veterinary Examiners, said it appears to him that the proposed legislation is leaving out "that the applicant has graduated" which needs to be left in. The National Board examination should remain a requirement. It has been a national standard for over 20 years. They are also requesting that the CCT be made part of the required licensure for those applying for licensure by credentials. This is also a nationally given test and develops, at least, some indication of the clinical competency of that individual to practice veterinary medicine. He said they want to upgrade the requirements for licensure, but do not want to block any individual from having licensure. They want to assure that the public is protected. He said the two tests are not at all unknown and are required of all new graduates. The Board recommends they (or the equivalent of) be required of applicants by credentials. Number 364 MR. RANDY WELKER , Legislative Auditor, explained the language they are proposing comes from one primary source and for a couple of reasons. The primary source comes from their audit report on page 11 and model legislation that is currently being reviewed by the American Association of State Veterinary Boards. The current statute on credentialing doesn't require graduation. The Board is placing an emphasis on testing, but Legislative Audit thought it would be better to put the emphasis on credentialling by the examination process when it is not by definition now required. The reason for a broader definition is limiting entry into the profession, especially for people who may have been practicing for many years. They may not have passed the exams the Board is saying they have to have today to be licensed by credential. CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Dr. Leach if he was proposing that graduation from an accredited school be placed in as an "and." DR. LEACH replied yes, he thought it should be "and" not "or." He said he graduated among the first of the National Board exams which started in most states in '62 or '63 and requiring the CCT is merely an improvement of testing standards. He didn't think taking the test was the issue. The Board is adjusting somewhat to maintaining a high standard of practitioner within the State. The CCT is a test he believes any practitioner who meets most of the other requirements should be able to pass. It isn't a test that goes back to the very basic sciences of the first year of undergraduate school as the NBE does. The CCT is a test for competency. It is the fairest way the Board has to make that assessment. Since it is put out by a nationally recognized organization separated totally from the State, it seems a very fair way to assess individuals who want to come and practice in the State, he said. SENATOR MACKIE said currently, as he reads the statute, it's not a requirement to have graduated from an accredited school of veterinary medicine. He's thinks that is probably a good idea, but he assumed that the Department, or by regulation, there is a requirement for graduation. The way it is written now is that there is at least the one requirement that you have to pass the Board's test. He added that he is open to including graduation from an accredited school, but he thought it was required somewhere already. MS. REARDON responded that the Board has all of the regulation writing authority, not the Department. That regulation authority does not extend to the point of being able to add qualifications that aren't listed in statute. The Board does not have the discretion to require graduation if it's not mentioned on the list of requirements in statute. Current law says you have to be a graduate of a school or have passed the test for foreign veterinary graduates. MS. REARDON thought the issue might be that the accreditation process for the schools may not extend to enough foreign countries. She thought the issue might be whether they are required to take the test for foreign veterinary graduates as well as the NBE and the CCT or just two of those. SENATOR MACKIE asked if there has been a problem, because in the version before the committee they aren't required to have graduated from an accredited school. He asked if we have any vets in the State who haven't graduated. MS. REARDON said she didn't know of any, but would check further. DR. SANDERS said she thought the "or" graduation from an accredited veterinary school should be changed to "and." She said most of the schools in Canada are accredited. Some of the European schools may not have accredited schools. In most other states those people are allowed to practice veterinary medicine in the U.S. if they pass a series of exams that takes several days to complete. She still thought that veterinary graduates of an accredited school should be a requirement. DR. SANDERS said there is some disagreement on the Board about the CCT, because it might be difficult for someone who has been in practice 15 or 20 years to pass, as it speaks to both small and large animals, exotics, and a variety of different types of practice. Someone may have been in one type of practice for the whole period of time and not had to deal with large animals or exotics. It's not that they are not competent in what they do. She said one thing the Association of Veterinary Boards is moving towards is more specific competency exams. CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if the Board could make the distinction between small and large animals, exotics, etc. within the framework of the statutory provision in SB 92. MS. REARDON replied that each profession's statutory authority varies a lot and she needed time to look at it carefully. She explained that the committee was discussing the licensure by credentials qualifications statute and there is another statute, not under discussion, which is the regular qualification for licensure. Number 536 MR. WELKER asked if there were any states that don't require graduation from an accredited college to obtain initial license. If all jurisdictions require graduation for licensing, then the accreditation is almost a moot point in the credentialing process. MS. REARDON replied that it applies not only to other states, but to other territories or countries that one could be coming in by credential from as well. DR. LEACH commented that there are two factors here. There are the foreign graduates who come in through a very difficult, complicated process, for them, to be able to practice within the United States, period. There are a few schools, about four, that accept the foreign students, and they go through quite a procedure that requires months of their time, plus passing a special designated U.S. test for foreign graduates. Above and beyond that, they must take NBE and in almost all states the CCT before they can practice in an individual state. Beyond that, they require a state test before they can practice there. He knew of no other state that does not require the individuals to be graduates from an accredited veterinary school. Regarding the question of whether they could narrow the scope of competency tests and that would be a massive undertaking for our State Board to undertake. There are no single entity competency tests available. That will come five years or so in the future. Right now the CCT is the best that is available. SENATOR KELLY asked who does the accrediting at the various veterinary schools. DR. LEACH replied that the AVA has been doing it. SENATOR KELLY asked if they only looked at American schools. DR. LEACH replied that Canadian schools are accredited straight across the board, but some in Europe have lesser standards and cannot be accredited. SENATOR KELLY asked him if he thought German and Japanese veterinary schools have lesser standards than American. DR. LEACH replied that was true as far as the accreditation process goes. SENATOR KELLY said he didn't believe that; he thought the American Veterinary Association would choose to believe that. DR. LEACH suggested he would find visiting some foreign veterinary schools very interesting. TAPE 97-9, SIDE B SENATOR KELLY said he thought the problem was that they weren't distinguishing between the American resident and the foreign applicant and they needed to be dealt with differently. He thought it was easier to not accredit foreign schools and it might also cut down on the competition. SENATOR MACKIE thought there should be one standard. The current bill version concerns him because it doesn't require graduation from an accredited school, you just have to pass the test. He suggested an amendment on page 1, line 13 insert "graduated from an accredited school of veterinary medicine and has" after "has." SENATOR KELLY objected and said that he agreed that should be the standard for American veterinarians. However, he thought there were probably hundreds of veterinary schools throughout the world that are not accredited by the American accreditation bureau. So none of those people can come to the U.S., even if they are very competent, and practice veterinary medicine. Number of 554 SENATOR LEMAN thought a possible approach would be to not absolutely require graduation, but have a CCT as an alternative and demonstrate competence in the lab. SENATOR MACKIE said he understood Senator Kelly's concern, but he was concerned that giving an exception to foreign candidates would allow someone who has never gone to a school a chance to pass the test and practice in Alaska whereas the standard for our own American candidates would be more stringent. SENATOR KELLY said they would have to go to a school somewhere in the world, but it didn't need to be accredited by the Americans. But they needed to prove to us that that school was essentially competent. He said he was surprised that the existing language had worked all these years because it is so vague. SENATOR KELLY asked now, if you are licensed by examination, is it required to also attend an accredited school. MS. REARDON replied under AS08.98.165 it repeats the identical language. It says the applicant has to be a graduate of an accredited veterinary school or pass the NBE. SENATOR KELLY asked if there were any veterinarians in Alaska who hadn't gone to an accredited veterinary school. MS. REARDON said she would have to look back through the files to be certain. SENATOR KELLY asked why the system wasn't working right now. MR. WELKER explained the concern they have is that the Board has started placing increased emphasis on the CCT. The statute says to be licensed by credential the person has to meet or exceed the State requirements at the time they applied, but the focus is being narrowed and they are concerned with limiting the possibility of people to come into the State to practice veterinary medicine. He thinks they can require a broader range of tests. The language also provides that if they haven't passed one of those tests, the applicant can satisfy the examination requirement by demonstrating they have passed the type of licensing examination that was required for entry level licenses in this State at the time the applicant became licensed. DR. LEACH responded that no matter where they may have graduated from, there are strict test regulations set up by the AVA for foreign people to enter the United States and practice. He thought the foreign graduate portion of the bill could be resolved by inserting a statement "or graduates of foreign schools must have passed the specific test for foreign veterinarians." He thought this would certainly demonstrate that they would be fine practicing anywhere in the country. CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted that Mr. Welker hadn't included the CCT as one of the requirements for licensure by credentials for fear people who had been practicing for some time elsewhere might have difficulty passing it. Yet Dr. Leach says that most people have already passed it or could pass it by virtue of their experience. MR. WELKER said he was open to modifying the specific exams. Holding everyone to the higher standard at this point in time is a policy call. His concern is that the Board is headed in that direction, but the statute doesn't envision that narrowing right now. DR. SANDERS pointed out that the CCT is not a lab type of exam; it is a written exam. She thought the National Board of Examinations Committee's Education Commission for Foreign Veterinary Graduates' exam that must be taken in order to practice in the U.S., requires that they have to show they have graduated from a foreign veterinary school before taking it. Number 408 SENATOR MACKIE withdrew his amendment. SENATOR KELLY said he wasn't so sure he wanted to insert the language that is suggested here. Standards are increasing in every profession by leaps and bounds as more knowledge is becoming available, and he thought more consideration was needed. SENATOR MACKIE said as a matter of policy he didn't want to extend anybody for six years. MR. WELKER responded that the cycle has historically been four years and the Board has been trying to encourage a longer cycle. SENATOR HOFFMAN asked when was the last time they recommended a board be terminated. MR. WELKER replied that they haven't done that in a long time, because it never happened when they did recommend it. Today most of the boards are self-supporting as is the Division. CHAIRMAN LEMAN said they would hold the bill and see if coordinating language could be found. SB 88 BOARD OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTANCY  CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced SB 88 to be up for consideration. MS. REARDON explained that SB 88 extends the Board of Public Accountancy and also reflects a number of audit recommendations. It extends the Board until 2003 and Section 2 deletes a sentence that indicated a board member could have two complete terms because that conflicted with the central licensing statute which says you can only have parts of two terms. The rest of the section removes a confusing aspect of the statute which has never really been applied. It seemed to indicate that in order to practice as an accountant, you needed both a license and a permit to practice. In fact, you only need a license. There was also reference to an annual permit or fee and under the centralized licensing statute all Division licenses are issued for two years. So this is clarified. The repealer in Section 7 repeals statutory reference to temporary accountancy licenses which haven't been issued and appear unnecessary. MS. THOMAS said she had no objections to the bill as written. MR. CHARLES GRIFFIN, Chairman, Board of Public Accountancy, said the Board concurs with all the major recommendations. The only thing is there appears to be some shortcomings in the review process. Some members feel that the boards should be a bit more autonomous. CHAIRMAN LEMAN commented that he agreed with him and said he had talked with Ms. Reardon about that topic. He suggested that it be dealt with in a separate bill. SENATOR MACKIE moved to delete "2003" and insert "2001." There were no objections and it was adopted. SENATOR MACKIE moved to pass CSSB 88(L&C) from committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SB 65 FOOD/SEAFOOD/ORGANIC FOOD  CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced SB 65 to be up for consideration. He noted that they had four amendments that had been worked out with the Department. SENATOR MACKIE moved to adopt the four amendments: A1, A3, A5, and A6 by Bannister 2/25/97. There were no objections and they were adopted. MS. JANICE ADAIR, Director, Division if Environmental Health, said she would answer questions. SENATOR MACKIE moved to pass CSSB 65(L&C) with individual recommendations and the accompanying $0 fiscal note. There were no objections and it was so ordered. CHAIRMAN LEMAN adjourned the meeting at 2:54 p.m.