SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE February 2, 2000 1:36 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman Senator Dave Donley Senator John Torgerson Senator Johnny Ellis MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Rick Halford, Vice-Chairman COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 11 Relating to substance abuse treatment for offenders in the criminal justice system. -MOVED HCR 11 OUT OF COMMITTEE HOUSE BILL NO. 43 "An Act relating to police training surcharges imposed for violations of municipal ordinances." -MOVED HB 43 OUT OF COMMITTEE CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 7(FIN) am Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska relating to initiative and referendum petitions. -MOVED SCS CSHJR 7(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 45(FIN) am "An Act relating to initiative and referendum petitions; and providing for an effective date." -MOVED SCS CSHB 45(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION HCR 11 - No previous action to report. HJR 7 - See Senate Judiciary Committee minutes dated 1/24/00. HB 43 - No previous action to report. HB 45 - See Senate Judiciary Committee minutes dated 01/24/00. WITNESS REGISTER Ms. Margaret Pugh, Commissioner Department of Corrections 240 Main Street, Suite 700 Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HCR 11 Ms. Sarah Williams Department of Corrections 4500 Diplomacy Drive Ketchikan, Alaska 99508 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HCR 11 Representative Gary Davis State Capitol Building Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 43 Mr. Peter Torkelson Representative Dyson's Office State Capitol Building Juneau, Alaska 999801 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HCR 11 Mr. Scott Brandt-Ericksen Ketchikan Gateway Borough 344 Front Street Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 43 Mr. Gerald Luckhaupt, Attorney Legislative Legal and Research Services Terry Miller Building Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 43 Representative Bill Williams State Capitol Building Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HJR 7 and HB 45 Ms. Sandra Mattie Alaska Way of Life 211 Saphire Drive Fairbanks, Alaska 99707 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7 Mr. James A. Crary 2720 Kempton Hills Drive Anchorage, Alaska 99516 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7 Mr. Al Anders 2800 Valleywood Drive, #B Anchorage, Alaska 99517 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7 Mr. Uwe Kalenka 635 East 73rd Anchorage, Alaska 99509 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7 Ms. Carol Torsen 1558 Thuja Avenue Anchorage, Alaska 99507 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7 Mr. Ken Jacobus 425 G Street, #920 Anchorage, Alaska 99501 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7 Mr. Ed Earnhart 1043 West 4th Avenue Anchorage, Alaska 99518 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 00-3, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN ROBIN TAYLOR called the Judiciary Committee meeting to order at 1:36 p.m. and brought up HCR 11 as the first order of business. HCR 11-SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT FOR OFFENDERS MR. PETER TORKELSON, staff of Representative Dyson, stated that HCR 11 is a statement of priorities for the Department of Corrections. Substance abuse treatment should be the number one priority and without treatment offenders will be back. COMMISSIONER MARGARET PUGH, Department of Corrections (DOC), stated DOC is pleased this resolution has been introduced. Substance abuse is a large public health problem in Alaska and factors heavily in the criminal justice system. DOC is committed to offering a continuum of care for the treatment of alcoholism and substance abuse. Last year a treatment program for female offenders was started, and hopefully, that program will be expanded to the male population this year. SENATOR TORGERSON commented that on page 2 of the bill it is stated "Alaska may redirect and restructure resources to provide standardized screening and culturally appropriate substance abuse treatment in the corrections system." He asked if DOC was going to create more than one standard. COMMISSIONER PUGH responded this section was added to underscore the importance of a program recognizing the Native culture. SENATOR TORGERSON responded it sounds expensive and if the legislation is enacted it would need a fiscal note. COMMISSIONER PUGH responded that volunteers and elders of the community currently implement the cultural programs. SENATOR TORGERSON asked what the sanctions for offenders are. COMMISSIONER PUGH answered there is a zero tolerance policy for substance abuse in institutions. An offender is sanctioned for the introduction or use of contraband while in an institution and this is done by loss of privilege and loss of good time. SENATOR TORGERSON asked if legislation is needed to provide sanctions. COMMISSIONER PUGH responded no, this is already part of the statutes and regulations. SENATOR TORGERSON asked the Commissioner if this legislation really has a zero fiscal note. COMMISSIONER PUGH answered yes, as a resolution, but if there were more specific requirements from a bill the requirements would have to be addressed separately. Number 522 SENATOR ELLIS asked if this legislation would take resources from existing programs to fund substance abuse programs. COMMISSIONER PUGH responded no. SENATOR DONLEY asked the Commissioner to give more details on sanctions imposed. COMMISSIONER PUGH replied loss of custody status and time in segregation. SENATOR DONLEY stated the resolution calls for failure to comply with court ordered treatment and asked what the sanctions are for that. COMMISSIONER PUGH responded DOC has the ability to revoke probation or parole in advance of release. MS. SARAH WILLIAMS, DOC, added furloughs can be withheld if a person does not follow through with treatment recommended by the court, and opportunities to participate in activities are sometimes denied. SENATOR ELLIS complemented the sponsor and stated he hoped the committee would support the legislation. MS. VALERIE THERRIAN, Advisory Board on Alcohol and Drug Abuse, stated the board supports HCR 11. The board feels that treatment for people who are still in jail may provide for less recidivism. SENATOR DONLEY asked whether DOC has a written policy regarding prisoners who refuse to comply with court ordered substance abuse programs. COMMISSIONER PUGH answered there are policies on anticipatory revocation. MS. WILLIAMS added there are many more inmates on waiting lists for treatment than those whose refuse court ordered treatment. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked why there is a waiting list. MS. WILLIAMS responded care providers can only handle a limited amount of clients at one time. Fast turn around time also requires more time spent on processing and further placement--there are not enough resources to meet the demand. SENATOR DONLEY moved HJR 11 from committee with individual recommendations. Without objection, HJR 11 moved from committee with individual recommendations. HB 43-MUNI.ORDINANCES:POLICE TRAINING SURCHARGE Number 1283 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS stated HB 43 is intended to be a housecleaning measure to HB 261 which increased the amount of crimes with surcharges. HB 43 is an attempt to correct and clarify how municipalities enact the surcharges. HB 43 clarifies that fines and penalties are to be imposed for criminal violations and not for civil violations. This legislation also clarifies how municipalities will impose the fines--an ordinance must be passed to authorize the collection of surcharges. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR expressed concern that surcharges used for training police officers in Anchorage and state troopers in Sitka will not be affected by this legislation. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS responded the intent is not to divert funds. It is up to the Police Standards Council to distribute the money where it sees a need. SENATOR ELLIS asked if the Fairbanks North Star Borough opposed this legislation. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS responded there had been a discussion on some of the wording, but he did not know its position. SENATOR ELLIS requested the committee ask for the Borough's position. MR. SCOTT BRANDT-ERICKSEN, Ketchikan Gateway Borough, stated Ketchikan feels this legislation is an improvement over the current law. He expressed concern about the interaction between the way municipal codes are constructed and the way surcharges are applied. Ketchikan's code provides a general penalty provision which says any violation can be subject to a fine up to $500.00 and up to 30 days imprisonment. Anchorage has a fine up to $300.00 and up to 30 days imprisonment or both, and Fairbanks' fine is up to $1000 and up to 90 days imprisonment or both. In Anchorage, for most violations imprisonment is not the penalty and a $10.00 surcharge is imposed, a fine of $50.00 is imposed for a misdemeanor seeking imprisonment. Other municipalities do not have codes as well developed and Mr. Brandt-Ericksen would like a distinction made between the $10.00 and $50.00 surcharges, as to when and how they are applied. Number 1993 CHAIRMAN TAYLOR clarified that Mr. Brandt-Ericksen would like to have the option of a $10.00 surcharge for cases not seeking incarceration. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR noted the committee does have a letter from the Fairbanks North Star Borough, and it would like to remain neutral on this legislation. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that a simple formula may be needed to standardize surcharges so that one cannot charge a municipal $1000.00 surcharge when other communities are charging $500.00 for the same offense. SENATOR ELLIS asked if the Judiciary Committee was not the right committee for addressing Mr. Brandt-Ericksen's concern about the way surcharges are applied rather than sending the bill on to another committee. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR answered by saying the bill can be held if committee members would like more time to address the issue. MR. GERALD LUCKHAUPT, Legislative Council for the Division of Legal Services, stated language was put in the bill specifying the actual provision of the ordinance that specifies a penalty. The most equitable way of applying sanctions seem to be to use criminal sanctions rather than civil sanctions. To find an equitable system throughout the state, municipalities may need a penalty provision that applies penalties without a jail term. Ordinances can be amended to provide a fine resulting in a lesser surcharge. TAPE 00-03, SIDE B MR. BRANDT-ERICKSEN commented that he sees this legislation as an improvement over the current system, and more coordination between local legislation, practices and enforcement may be the most effective solution. SENATOR TORGERSON moved HB 43 from committee with individual recommendations and its accompanying fiscal note. Without objection, HB 43 moved from committee. Number 2238 HJR 7-CONST AM: INITIATIVE/REFERENDUM PETITIONS HB 45-INITIATIVE/REFERENDUM PETITIONS REPRESENTATIVE WILLLIAMS was in attendance to answer questions. MS. SANDRA MATTIE, Alaskan Way of Life, Trappers Assn. and Caribou Calf Protection Program, said she was testifying on HJR 7 and supports the bill. The ballot initiative process must be preserved and protected from exploitation. Alaska needs to be protected from outside interest groups that have an affect on what is placed on the ballot. There must be opportunities for ballot initiatives that reflect the desires of all Alaskans. Requiring signatures to be collected from qualified voters from all Alaskan voting districts, equal in number to a minimum of 10% to 15% of those who voted in the preceding general election will ensure this. MR. JAMES A. CRARY, representing himself, stated the initiative process is a constitutional right and is a serious matter. He is against HB 45 because it limits rather than expands the process. He suggests getting signatures over the internet, not having to collect signatures in person, placing no cap on the price paid per signature, reinstating the grace period, and there should be guaranteed access to malls and other public areas. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Mr. Crary if he had reviewed CSHB 45 because the CS has been amended to incorporate some of decisions from Buckley v. American Constitutional Law Foundation, Inc., 525 U.S. 182 (1999). MR. CRARY responded he had not but HB 45 has gone way beyond the Buckley decision by making the initiative process more restrictive. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if Mr. Crary felt it was appropriate for the legislature to limit the amount people pay in contributions for political campaigns. MR. CRARY responded it is not the same thing, paying for signatures on an initiative is different than paying for a political campaign. SENATOR TORGERSON asked Mr. Crary if he knew of any state using electronic media for collecting signatures on ballot initiatives. MR. CRARY responded no, but wondered why Alaska did not take the lead. Number 1583 MR. AL ANDERS, Alaska Libertarian Party, expressed concern that limits are put on how much a person can be paid for collecting signatures. He agreed with Mr. Crary and Representative Williams that rural areas should be included in the initiative process more by making it easier for initiatives to be put on the ballot. Removing the sponsor and making the petition one page--making it easier to post on the internet and to be faxed--would make the process more accessible for rural areas. MR. UWE KALENKA, Alaskans for Property Tax Reform, expressed his concern about HB 45 restricting the initiative process, and he asked the committee to reject the bill. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Mr. Kalenka if he knew the people of Alaska would have the opportunity to vote on this initiative. MR KALENKA responded he knew this, but "why fix something that isn't broken," and why spend money on this issue if there is not a problem. MS. CAROL TORSEN, representing herself, stated she supports HJR 7 in the original form. Due to the high concentration of voters in Anchorage and Fairbanks, initiatives can be placed on the ballot without any signatures from the 10 rural house districts of Alaska. She, therefore, urges the legislature to restore HJR 7 as originally introduced. MR. KEN JACOBUS, representing himself, stated he does not believe wildlife management by the ballot box is proper. He feels wildlife management should be taken out of the initiative process by letting people vote on the issue. MR. JACOBUS feels it is important a circulator sponsor distinction be recognized. An affidavit of age, residency and citizenship should not be required because it does not matter who circulates the petition--getting registered voters to sign is what matters. MR. JACOBUS recommends that HJR 11 and HB 45 be defeated. Number 1129 MR. ED EARNHART, representing himself, stated he supports HB 45. SENATOR TORGERSON moved CSHB 45 from committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR ELLIS objected, feeling, though well intentioned by Representative Williams, this legislation is a step backward in letting the people petition the government. Number 389 SENATOR DONLEY asked for a review of CSHB 45. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR answered CSHB 45 is the application of the Buckley supreme court decision, making the inconsistencies of state law compliant with federal law. SENATOR ELLIS responded that Buckley lends itself to a separate piece of legislation and should not be added to what Representative Williams is trying to accomplish in his bill. SENATOR DONLEY commented that Senator Ellis' point was valid, but he will vote to move CSHB 45 from committee, even though he does not support the bill, because the changes are consistent with the federal constitution. The roll was taken on the motion. Voting yea: SENATOR DONLEY, SENATOR TORGERSON and CHAIRMAN TAYLOR. Voting nay: SENATOR ELLIS, and so SCS CSHB 45(JUD) moved from committee. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if the committee needed more time to look at the bill. SENATOR ELLIS responded there are many issues in the bill that need to be addressed separately, and he is strongly opposed to passing the bill out of committee. SENATOR DONLEY commented he is not convinced the initiative process needs to be changed, but he sees no need for CSHB 45 to stay in committee. SENATOR TORGERSON stated he agrees with much of the testimony but he is disheartened that a solution has not been offered for Representative Williams' problem. Only 24 people from Representative Williams' district signed a statewide initiative, and no one seems to care it was only 24 people. Ketchikan is not a small community and people do not have to travel long distances to collect signatures. There were only 279 signatures for all of southeastern Alaska. This legislation may be going too far, but this may be what it takes to get people talking about how to get the initiative process working. TAPE 00-4, SIDE A CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented he is willing to move the legislation through the process, but if CSHB 45 does not pass on the senate floor alternative legislation should be submitted on behalf of the committee. The exclusion of wildlife management from the initiative process and Buckley may need to be addressed as separate matters. SENATOR TORGERSON moved CSHB 45 and HJR 7 with the accompanying resolution out of committee with individual recommendations and fiscal notes. SENATOR ELLIS objected saying: I really hope that folks watching this process here in the legislature and beyond, will view this in the present context. I don't think this is an isolated incident. It's one more piece of what I think of as a very disturbing trend of legislators who become frustrated with signatures on a ballot initiative or the outcome of a ballot initiative, coming to Juneau and using their position in the Majority to rewrite the will of the people, outright overturn the will of the people... SENATOR TORGERSON and REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS objected. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Senator Ellis to address the specifics of the bill. SENATOR ELLIS stated it is the trend of this legislature to overturn the will of the people through the ballot box. Most people find this offensive and he believes this is an abuse of power. The testimony put before the committee attests to the fact that there will be massive criticism across the entire political spectrum. He continued by saying: A lot of those people will say, oh I signed a petition to limit property taxes in this state, thousands of Alaskans did all across this state, and the first thing the legislature does, and it will seem to them that the timing is very suspect... SENATOR TORGERSON raised a point of order and said: It was not all across the state, I've already entered into the record that it was not down in Ketchikan or six districts {indisc.}or other districts. SENATOR ELLIS responded that Senator Torgerson's concern was not a point of order. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR agreed and told Senator Ellis to continue. SENATOR ELLIS continued by saying the people who signed the property tax initiative will think the first reaction of the legislature is to limit their petition rights, and he strongly objects to passing CSHB 45. Number 449 SENATOR DONLEY stated for the record he will vote "do not pass" on both pieces of legislation, but he is not opposed to moving the bill out of committee. Even though he respects the motives of the sponsor, he is not convinced this legislation is right. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented this is the only opportunity the public will have on this subject because it is barred from the initiative process--the only way to get this issue on the ballot is through the legislature. The Chairman stated he would like the legislation moved to the Finance Committee. SENATOR DONLEY moved CSHB 45 from committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR ELLIS objected. The roll was taken on the motion. Voting yea: SENATOR DONLEY, SENATOR TORGERSON and CHAIRMAN TAYLOR. Voting nay: SENATOR ELLIS, and so SCS CSHB 45(JUD) moved from committee. SENATOR TORGERSON moved HJR 7 from committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR ELLIS objected, feeling the Judiciary Committee is where this issue needs to be worked out and this committee should not "pass the buck" on to another committee. He commented that committee members should be voting their true positions. SENATOR DONLEY commented legislators will be voting their true positions by how they sign the committee report. He will be recommending "do not pass" and he will be voting "no" on the floor of the senate. SENATOR ELLIS interjected that instead of "true position," he meant "position on the merits of the legislation." SENATOR TORGERSON commented he is also saying "no recommendation," knowing there will be other opportunities to work on the wording when the bill is in the Finance Committee. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR stated he was not satisfied with the wording of the bill either and he expects more work will be done. The roll was taken on the motion. Voting yea: SENATOR TORGERSON, SENATOR DONLEY and CHAIRMAN TAYLOR. Voting nay: SENATOR ELLIS, and so SCS HJR 7(JUD) moved from committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR ELLIS commented that Chairman Taylor has handled the committee well during heated discussions, and he asked that interruptions be based on a point of order and for the chairman to decide if the point of order is legitimate. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR stated he would be happy to comply. SENATOR TORGERSON recommended that facts put before the committee be true facts so there will be no need for a point of order. With nothing else to come before the committee, CHAIRMAN TAYLOR adjourned at 3:25 p.m.