SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE January 24, 2000 1:44 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman Senator John Torgerson Senator Johnny Ellis MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Rick Halford, Vice-Chairman Senator Dave Donley COMMITTEE CALENDAR CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 3(JUD) "An Act relating to controlled substances and to the possession of certain chemicals." - MOVED CSHB 3(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 7(FIN) am Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska relating to initiative and referendum petitions. - HEARD AND HELD CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 45(FIN) am "An Act relating to initiative and referendum petitions; and providing for an effective date." - HEARD AND HELD PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION CSHB 3(JUD)am - No previous action. CSHJR 7(FIN)am - No previous action. CSHB 45(FIN)am - No previous action. WITNESS REGISTER Representative Tom Brice Alaska State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 3 Mr. Gerald P. Luckhaupt Legislative Counsel Legislative Affairs Agency Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 3 Ms. Nancy Bukar Consumer Health Assn. Washington, D.C. POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 3 Representative Bill Williams Alaska State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HJR 7 and HB 45 Mr. Pete Buist P.O. Box 71561 Fairbanks, Alaska 99509 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 7 Mr. Dick Bishop Alaska Outdoor Council P.O. Box 73902 Fairbanks, Alaska 99707 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 7 and HB 45 Mr. Scott Kohlhaas 204 East 15th Avenue, #604 Anchorage, Alaska 99501 POSITION STATEMENT: Against HJR 7 and HB 45 Mr. Ken Jacobus 425 G Street, #920 Anchorage, Alaska 99501 POSITION STATEMENT: Against HB 45 Mr. Al Anders 2800 Valleywood Drive, #B Anchorage, Alaska 99517 POSITION STATEMENT: Against HB 45 Mr. Bob Croom, Sr. Box 4029 Anchorage, Alaska 99548 POSITION STATEMENT: Against HB 45 Mr. Dick Coose Ketchikan, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 45 and HJR 7 Mr. Gabe Sam Tanana Chiefs Conference 122 1st Avenue, Suite 600 Fairbanks, Alaska 99707 POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HJR 7 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 00-2, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN ROBIN TAYLOR called the Judiciary Committee meeting to order at 1:44 p.m. and announced HB 3 would be the first order of business. HB 3-DRUGS: POSSESSION OF LISTED CHEMICALS REPRESENTATIVE BRICE, sponsor of HB 3, stated that methamphetamine (METH) is a drug that is easily cooked using accessible chemicals. METH is known as "speed," "crank" and "ice" and is made from sudafed. The manufacturing process is volatile and dangerous because of the type of chemicals used, causing a tremendous health risk for the public and the manufacturer. Improper hygiene while manufacturing is also a public health risk. The police are having to send the chemicals to labs for specific identification before they can make an arrest. This legislation would allow the police to make an arrest at the scene of the crime. MR. GERALD P. LUCKHAUPT, legal counsel, explained the bill creates a new class of chemical that would be identified as essential in the manufacturing of METH and are usually legal to possess. If persons possess these chemicals with the intent to manufacture METH, the penalties are increased. The penalty is now a Class B felony and would increase to Class A--because of the danger and because of the cleanup costs. Section 4 provides for the regulation of over-the-counter drugs. Normally, these drugs are not regulated by the state and possession is not a crime, but possession with the intent to manufacture an illegal drug would now be illegal in Alaska. Section 5 identifies the chemicals essential for the manufacture of METH. These chemicals are all identified in federal law. Federal law makes it illegal to possess these chemicals without fulfilling the regulatory requirements--paperwork must be completed by the wholesaler and client before purchasing these chemicals. Number 563 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that many of the chemicals used in the production of METH come from "cold remedies," and the intent of this legislation is not to make these products illegal unless they are used for making METH. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if there was an objective standard within this legislation concerning intent. MR. LUCKHAUPT answered that intent would be determined by possession of the listed chemicals, glassware, cookbooks, and by statements made when renting or when obtaining the ingredients. It would be similar to the way agents make their cases now. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if Alaska was behind other states in passing this type of legislation. MR. LUCKHAUPT responded that 20 to 25 states have this legislation and a few states have more expansive laws. The registration process is somewhat problematic, the benefits of registration have to be weighed against the costs imposed on business. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if the registration process was for businesses that have to report the sale of chemicals. MR. LUCKHAUPT responded yes. The registration process is now used through the federal registry. SENATOR TORGERSON asked if the list of chemicals in this legislation was the same as the federal list. MR. LUCKHAUPT answered the federal government identifies List 1 and List 2 chemicals. Possession of List 1 chemicals, with the intent to manufacture, provides for a higher penalty than a List 2 chemical. This legislation combines List 1 and 2 chemicals and adds a few others. SENATOR TORGERSON was worried about a regulation that would come out of this legislation putting restrictions on the manufacture of common substances such as "salt." Number 1068 MR. LUCKHAUPT responded the "salt" being referenced to in the bill is not table salt. SENATOR TORGERSON answered that the section starts with "any salt" and possibly that term should be deleted. MR. LUCKHAUPT responded that he would not do that because the nature of the chemical can be changed easily by just removing water. "Salt" is a term used when chemicals have been reduced down to a lesser state. This term is used because the original chemical can be altered in such a way that it is no longer the same. Number 1230 NANCY BUKAR, state government counsel for Consumer Health Care Products Assn., responded that her organization has worked closely with Representative Brice and they are pleased to see the amendments they suggested incorporated into the bill. This bill is similar to legislation in 18 other states, and allows over-the- counter (OTC) products to be available to the consumer, while penalizing those who poses OTC products for the manufacture of METH. Her organization supports the bill in its current version. SENATOR ELLIS thanked Representative Brice for introducing this legislation and commented that this is an issue of great importance to his district. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that he also supports the legislation. SENATOR ELLIS moved to pass CSHB 3(JUD)am on to its next committee of referral. With no objection, the motion carried. Number 1453 HJR 7-CONST AM: INITIATIVE/REFERENDUM PETITIONS HB 45-INITIATIVE/REFERENDUM PETITIONS REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS, Sponsor of HJR 7 and HB 45, read the following sponsor statement: HJR 7 and HB 45 were introduced to ensure statewide consideration and discussion of an initiative petition before it is put on the ballot. The legislation requires signatures equal to 10% of the ballots cast in the prior general election (same as current law) and 4% of ballots cast from 30 of the 40 election districts. In past elections the greatest support for initiatives has come from one general area of the state, the Anchorage-MatSu region. The legislation is intended to further statewide discussion of an issue before it reaches the voters on election day. Alaska's population distribution is much different now than it was when our Constitution was approved. Today, initiative supporters can collect signatures in a limited area and get a question on the ballot. The legislation will facilitate a broader discussion of potential ballot questions, thus helping to create a balanced question which considers effects on all the citizens of Alaska. As we write laws in the Capitol, many perspectives are taken into account as issues are discussed through the committee process. During this process healthy debate, from representatives of all areas of the state, is conducted. This healthy debate gives all members opportunity to see how their lawmaking will affect areas that they do not represent. Pertinent questions are asked and legislation is constantly amended to take into account those concerns. Currently, initiatives can be put onto the ballot with very limited perspective. Constructive analysis of a question, from a statewide perspective, does not currently occur. Right now signatures equaling 10% of ballots cast is required. In addition, initiative sponsors must obtain one signature from 27 districts. One signature from a district is hardly representative of a district's opinion on an issue. In closing, this legislation would get people from all over the state more involved in the initiative process. This, in turn, can create an atmosphere of healthy debate and ensure questions which reach the ballot have a statewide perspective. Number 1605 CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that the U.S. Supreme Court issued the "Buckley" decision which changed some of the current statutory laws concerning who can distribute an initiative, the type of information on an initiative and the reporting requirements. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he had been working with Representative Williams' staff in getting Alaska law in compliance with the supreme court decision. Because no one on the committee has reviewed the new committee substitute, Chairman Taylor announced the bill will be before the committee again next week. Number 1706 MR. PETE BUIST, Alaska Trappers Assn. and the Coalition for the Alaskan Way of Life (CAL), stated that his organizations have seen the common threat of "ballot box biology." Fighting reactive campaigns against outside special interests is expensive and time consuming. His organization supports HJR 7 in its original form, along with some changes they have submitted. The current initiative process makes it too easy to place an initiative on the ballot, and he urges the committee to restore the original language to HJR 7. MR. DICK BISHOP, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), stated that AOC is against "ballot box biology" regarding the management of fish and wildlife. AOC advocates a constitutional amendment making fish and wildlife issues ineligible for the initiative process. If the legislature is unable to take this approach, AOC urges the legislature to raise the number of petition signatures to 15% of previous voters in each house district before the petition is accepted. MR. SCOTT KOHLHAAS, Libertarian Party of Alaska, stated he is against HJR 7 and HB 45. HB 45 makes the first amendment right to petition the government very difficult and he feels the initiative process should be made easier and not more difficult. MR. KEN JACOBUS, representing himself, stated there is no need for a constitutional amendment because there is no problem now getting information to the people. The entire process should not be harmed to deal with one special interest group. He has sent a letter to the committee and urges the members to read it. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented the letter had not been received yet but it would be distributed to committee members when it arrives. Tape 00-2, Side B MR. AL ANDERS, representing himself, stated the initiative process is not a problem and does not need to be fixed. He feels the process should be opened up more, and he is against HB 45 and HJR 7. MR. BOB CROOM, SR., representing himself, stated he disagrees with the 10% signature requirement because of the expense for rural areas and the remoteness of much of Alaska. MR. KEN JACOBUS stated he felt there needed to be changes in the petition law. The provisions of the present law violate the U.S. Constitution and need to be repealed. Removing the 30 day grace period last year nearly killed the voluntary petition. This almost guarantees that the only people who can petition are people with money, and certain issues this year will not be on the ballot because of the grace period. Another issue to be removed is the dollar per signature limit, and public access also needs to be reviewed. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR acknowledged that the witnesses' comments would be utilized on both HJR 7 and HB 45 because they are companion pieces of legislation. Number 1973 SENATOR ELLIS acknowledged that he agrees with Mr. Jacobus' comments on both pieces of legislation and he will continue to argue against restricting peoples' rights to petition the government. The statutes from the federal case need to be cleared up separately from this legislation. SENATOR TORGERSON stated he agrees with both sides of the issue, and a balance needs to be found so the process will not be too restrictive. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR wants to see "Buckley" utilized to clean up the statutes and to create a clear understanding of the process. Representative Williams' amendment may have to list fish and game matters as ineligible for initiative action. SENATOR ELLIS asked the Chairman for a preview of the committee substitute. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he has asked the legal drafter to work with Representative Williams to integrate the changes that are necessary under "Buckley." Number 1719 MR. DICK COOSE, representing himself, stated he supports HJR 7 and HB 45. Mr. Coose encouraged the committee members to read Undo Influence by Ron Arnold. He wants outside influences stopped and he feels this legislation will help. MR. GABE SAM, Director of Wildlife and Parks for the Tanana Chiefs Conference, read from a resolution by the Board of Directors. Resolution 99-19 Wildlife Management By Ballot Initiative WHEREAS, in recent years wildlife management issues have been brought to the voters by way of Ballot Initiatives, which do not incorporate good science, but rely on emotion driven by a few pictures or video clips and allow the money to be spent on advertising; and WHEREAS, rural residents would lose important opportunities to provide subsistence food or cash economy by loss of an issue in an election; and WHEREAS, the management of fish and game resources is best left to the professionals on a Federal Subsistence Board, the Department of Fish and Game and the State Board of Game; and WHEREAS, there is a constitutional amendment (HJR 7) sponsored by Representative Williams that would require 15% of past voters' signatures in 3/4 of the State's election districts for an issue to be certified for ballot initiatives; and WHEREAS, there is also a constitutional amendment resolution (HJR 3) sponsored by Representative Bunde of Anchorage that would require a 2/3 majority for any wildlife management issue to pass by initiative. NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Tanana Chiefs Board of Directors urges TCC staff to work in opposition to wildlife management by ballot initiative, and to support HJR 3 and 7 that would restrict the ability of such issues to come to the voters. This resolution was submitted by the McGrath Native Village Council, last year, at their annual convention. With no further business to come before the committee, CHAIRMAN TAYLOR adjourned the meeting at 2:45 p.m.