JOINT HOUSE and SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE January 20, 1999 1:35 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman Senator Rick Halford, Vice-Chairman Senator Dave Donley Senator John Torgerson Senator Johnny Ellis Representative Pete Kott, Chairman Representative Joe Green, Vice-Chairman Representative Jeanette James Representative Eric Croft Representative Lisa Murkowski Representative Beth Kerttula MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Norm Rokeberg COMMITTEE CALENDAR Confirmation of Curt Wallace and H. Conner Thomas to the Select Committee on Legislative Ethics PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION No previous action to report WITNESS REGISTER Mr.Curt Wallace 240 Eisenhower Lane Kenai, AK 99661 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Confirmations Mr. H. Conner Thomas P.O. Box 865 Nome, AK 99762 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Confirmations Ms. Susie Barnett Staff to the Select Committee on Legislative Ethics P.O. 101468 Anchorage, AK 99510 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Confirmations ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 99-01, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN ROBIN TAYLOR and Chairman Pete Kott called the Judiciary Committee meeting to order at 1:35 p.m. Curt D. Wallace was called to testify on the sole order of business before the committee, that being the confirmation hearing to the Select Board of Legislative Ethics. CHAIRMAN KOTT also informed the committee that Ms. Susie Barnett, staff to the select Committee on Legislative Ethics, would be on teleconference and available to answer questions. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked MR. WALLACE for an opening statement. MR. WALLACE said he thought serving on the committee would be a good experience for him and he believed he could do a good job. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR opened the floor to questions. Number 098 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked MR. WALLACE why he would like to serve on this committee which is often confronted by difficult issues and diverse personalities. MR. WALLACE said he sees it as a valuable community service and someone has to do it. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commended him for his willingness to do this tough job. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked MR. WALLACE how long he has been in the state and what his experience has been during that time. MR. WALLACE replied he went to high school and college in state and has worked at the University of Alaska for the last ten years. MR. WALLACE added he believes this job will require a fair, nonpartisan evaluation of the issues to ensure the state is conducting its business in an open, ethical manner consistent with avoiding any appearance of impropriety. Number 350 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN remarked that most ethics cases involve some degree of error as well as culpability. He asked if MR. WALLACE would consider extenuating circumstances in some cases or if he would rigidly follow the letter of the law. MR. WALLACE indicated he would be willing to consider extenuating circumstances. REPRESENTATIVE BETH KERTTULA asked MR. WALLACE if he has ever served on any decision-making bodies before and he replied he has not. SENATOR TORGERSON inquired as to MR. WALLACE'S qualifications for this position and MR. WALLACE reported that he is familiar with ethical procedures and the need to avoid even an appearance of impropriety. Number 600 CHAIRMAN KOTT asked MR. WALLACE if he had ever been arrested and MR. WALLACE replied he has not. REPRESENTATIVE LISA MURKOWSKI asked MR. WALLACE to describe the type of dispute resolution experience he had indicated on his resume. MR. WALLACE explained he dealt with unsuccessful vendors who had put in a bid with the University and wanted further explanation. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR thanked MR. WALLACE on behalf of the committee. Number 750 SENATOR TORGERSON moved MR. WALLACE'S name be forwarded to the full Senate with a letter of non-objection. Without objection, the motion passed. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN moved MR. WALLACE'S name be forwarded to the full House with a letter of non-objection. Without objection, the motion passed. SENATOR TORGERSON asked MS. BARNETT about the number of seats available for each political party. MS. BARNETT replied the law requires no more than two members of the same party serve on the committee at any given time. She explained that there are two Republicans on the panel now and one person who is Undeclared. Number 960 REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT asked MR. WALLACE'S PARTY and MR. WALLACE confirmed he is Undeclared. MR. CONNOR THOMAS, the other candidate, reported to the committee that he had no independent interest in serving on the ethics panel; he was simply contacted by his local Superior Court Judge. MR. THOMAS said sitting on the committee would be a community service and he was willing to serve his time. CHAIRMAN KOTT asked about MR. THOMAS' party affiliation and MR. THOMAS disclosed he is a Democrat. Number 1108 CHAIRMAN KOTT also asked MR. THOMAS if he has ever been arrested and MR. THOMAS remarked he has not. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR noted that MR. THOMAS is an attorney and asked him if he has any specific training or experience in the field of ethics. MR. THOMAS said ethics is a consideration in criminal defense but not on par with this panel. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked more specifically about conflict-of-interest and MR. THOMAS replied he does use discretion as well as the professional rules of responsibility in both criminal and civil cases he encounters. Number 1280 CHAIRMAN TAYLOR expressed concern with the perception of ethics violations, especially conflicts-of-interest. He asked MR. THOMAS if he sees a difference between the types of ethics decisions he has to make as an attorney and the decisions made by Legislators. MR. THOMAS said he always errs on the side of caution but Legislators are more likely to be constrained by the letter of the law. Number 1395 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN noted MR. THOMAS'S background is primarily as a defense attorney and asked him if he could be objective in his analysis. MR. THOMAS affirmed he would approach every case individually and objectively, as he did when he served as a magistrate. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented that she has never been able to understand how defense attorneys can represent guilty clients. She said it seems you just have to accept it as your assignment. MR. THOMAS repeated his belief that he can approach things fairly and stated he has no personal agenda on this committee. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked MR. THOMAS' feelings on the accountability of political figures as compared to the general public. MR. THOMAS replied it is important for the public to perceive that the legislative process is fair. A loss of public faith in the process results in decreased public participation and for this reason MR. THOMAS indicated the standard for the Legislature should be higher than that of the general public. Number 1725 SENATOR HALFORD asked if MR. THOMAS believes the right to serve in public office is significant enough to require due process when attempting to remove from a person from office. MR. THOMAS said he is not yet familiar with the legislative ethics code but he does feel due process should apply. SENATOR HALFORD asked more specifically about the protections an accused person receives and the standard of proof that should be used in these cases. MR. THOMAS was not able to answer with certainty but he expressed that a severe sanction should require a high standard like "reasonable doubt" and a less significant sanction might require a lesser burden of proof. SENATOR TORGERSON noted there is already an attorney on the committee and wondered if the addition of another attorney might be difficult and cause the committee to be come bogged down in legal argument. MR. THOMAS hoped that would not be the case. Number 2010 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked about MR. THOMAS' duties as a magistrate and any parallels he might see between that work and membership on the ethics committee. MR. THOMAS explained being a magistrate in Nome entails doing arraignment work, hearing misdemeanor trials, handling children's matters and issuing search warrants. MR. THOMAS indicated he was also the coroner at that time. SENATOR DONLEY commented that in the past the committee has misinterpreted the legislative intent behind the ethics statutes. He asked if MR. THOMAS would use his own judgement to interpret the statutes or if he would defer to past decisions. Furthermore, he asked if MR. THOMAS were to use his own judgement, would it be guided by legislative intent. MR. THOMAS said he would make an effort to use his own judgement, but would defer to the Legislature as to their intent. He also stated he would not ignore precedents, nor would he be bound by them. SENATOR DONLEY reiterated that the powers of the ethics committee stem from the Legislature. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR mentioned that MR. THOMAS, as a member of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) appears to be concerned about civil liberties. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR encouraged MR. THOMAS to review the rights and responsibilities of both members of the legislature and the ethics committee. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR expressed it is with a great leap of faith that legislators entrust the ethics committee with their civil liberties. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he would appreciate it if MR. THOMAS would correspond with the committee and share his thoughts on the system in which this Select Committee on Legislative Ethics operates. MR. THOMAS agreed he would correspond with CHAIRMAN TAYLOR within the next year. Number 2360 SENATOR TORGERSON moved MR.THOMAS' name be forwarded to the full Senate with a letter of non-objection. Without objection, the motion passed. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN moved MR. WALLACE'S name be forwarded to the full House with a letter of non-objection. Without objection, the motion passed. Having no further business to come before the joint committee, both CHAIRMAN TAYLOR and CHAIRMAN KOTT indicated the meeting was adjourned at 2:21 p.m.