SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE May 12, 1999 2:24 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Mike Miller, Chairman Senator Pete Kelly, Vice-Chairman Senator Gary Wilken Senator Kim Elton MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Drue Pearce COMMITTEE CALENDAR SENATE BILL NO. 117 "An Act relating to property insurance required for school districts." -MOVED CSSB 117(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE SENATE BILL NO. 170 "An Act relating to credited service under the teachers' retirement system for education employees on leave without pay or receiving workers' compensation benefits because of certain on-the-job injuries." -MOVED CSSB 170(HES)OUT OF COMMITTEE CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 70(RLS) am "An Act relating to questionnaires or surveys administered in public schools." -MOVED SCS CSHB 70(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION SB 117 - See HESS minutes dated 4/19/99, 5/3/99 and 5/6/99 SB 170 - No previous action to report HB 70 - No previous action to report WITNESS REGISTER Mr. Robert Krogseng Aide to Senator Robin Taylor Alaska State Legislature Juneau, AK 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 117 Mr. John Cyr, President NEA Alaska 114 2nd St. Juneau, AK 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 170 Mr. Guy Bell, Director Division of Retirement & Benefits Department of Administration PO Box 110207 Juneau, AK 99811-0203 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 170 Mr. Bill Church, Retirement Supervisor Division of Retirement & Benefits Department of Administration PO Box 110207 Juneau, AK 99811-0203 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 170 Ms. Rynnieva Moss, Staff Aide Representative John Coghill Alaska State Capitol Juneau, AK 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Presented CSHB 226(HES) Representative Fred Dyson Alaska State Capitol Juneau, AK 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 70 Ms. Lisa Torkelson, Staff Aide Representative Fred Dyson Alaska State Capitol Juneau, AK 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 70 Mr. Elmer Lindstrom, Special Assistant Department of Health & Social Services PO Box 110601 Juneau, AK 99811-0601 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 70 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 99-28, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN MILLER called the Senate Health, Education and Social Services (HESS) Committee to order at 2:24 p.m. Members present were Senators Pete Kelly, Gary Wilken, Kim Elton, and Chairman Miller. The first bill to come before the committee was SB 117. SB 117-INSURANCE FOR SCHOOL DISTRICTS ROBERT KROGSENG, staff to Senator Taylor, discussed a proposed amendment designed to address concerns raised about the definition of earthquake zones at the last meeting. He noted while doing research for the amendment, it came to his attention that the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) is in the process of changing its terminology and will be designating earthquake contours rather than zones. The national building code staff plans to adopt new terminology as well. The proposed amendment replaces the words "an active seismic area" with "areas where ground motions exceed 0.2 of a second, spectral acceleration of 75 percent gravity, as delineated on a ground motion map for Alaska based on USGS Geologic Investigation Series Maps 1-2679." Committee packets contain a map that outlines the areas that meet the new delineation; those areas were previously referred to as zones 3 and 4. The USGS is in the process of creating a map for the Legislature that will define the areas more clearly. SENATOR ELTON asked how such a map will affect insurance company claims if insurance companies consider the entire state to be an active seismic area. MR. KROGSENG said it is his understanding that insurance companies essentially work off of, and with, the building codes and that the new terminology will be adopted into the building codes. SENATOR ELTON asked whether municipalities with their own building codes will have to make that change. MR. KROGSENG replied that all building codes are currently being combined into one nationwide code. Most municipalities have an automatic reference to the latest building code, others adopt each new code as it is released. Number 093 SENATOR ELTON asked for an explanation of the definition. MR. KROGSENG said that structural problems occur when the ground motion is higher than the number contained in the definition. Most structural specifications can withstand less ground motion. SENATOR WILKEN moved to adopt Amendment 1. SENATOR ELTON objected and said originally, the bill only addressed a perceived problem with regulations that pertain to flood insurance for schools, and he is not sure the bill is necessary at all. The bill now attempts to fix a problem with earthquake insurance when no school district has testified that it is a problem. The motion to adopt Amendment 1 carried with Senators Pete Kelly, Wilken and Miller voting "yea," and Senator Elton voting "nay." SENATOR ELTON moved to delete, on page 1 line 9, "(1)" to put a period after "flood prone area" on line 11, and to delete the remaining language on lines 11 through 13. The net effect of Amendment 2 will be to strike all references in the bill to earthquakes. SENATOR WILKEN objected and said the intent of the bill is to save money, and that rather than have to revisit the issue in the future, it makes sense to address earthquake insurance now. SENATOR ELTON maintained that legislating for problems that have not occurred is difficult. In addition, he is not convinced that a new definition of earthquake zones will be used by insurance companies to determine rates. The motion to adopt Amendment 2 failed with Senator Elton voting "yea," and Senators Wilken, Kelly and Miller voting "nay." There being no further discussion on SB 117, SENATOR WILKEN moved SB 117 as amended out of committee with individual recommendations and its accompanying fiscal note. SENATOR ELTON objected. The motion carried with Senators Kelly, Wilken and Miller voting "yea," and Senator Elton voting "nay." Number 216 SB 170-CREDITED SERVICE FOR ON-THE-JOB INJURIES JOHN CYR, President of NEA Alaska, thanked Chairman Miller and Representative Coghill for introducing this legislation. NEA believes SB 170 speaks to fairness. It allows a teacher who is assaulted on the job and is forced to go on leave without pay status to maintain their retirement benefits. It also allows teachers who go on leave without pay for other reasons to contribute to his/her retirement accounts. NEA hopes that no teacher will ever have to rely on the provisions of this bill, however assaults on the job do happen and create an extreme hardship on teachers and their families at the time as well as at retirement time. SENATOR WILKEN asked if SB 170 will apply to a teacher hurt on the job. MR. CYR said SB 170 only applies to teachers who are assaulted on the job and the injury would have to be serious enough to force the teacher to rely on workers' compensation. He explained that a teacher is eligible to use sick leave for accidents or illnesses that are not job related. While on sick leave, a teacher remains on paid status and continues to contribute to his/her retirement account. A teacher who is hurt on the job is eligible for workers' compensation. Number 267 GUY BELL, Director of the Division of Retirement and Benefits, stated SB 170 is the Senate corollary to HB 226. Section 3(d) effectively puts the teachers' retirement system (TRS) on par with the public employees' retirement system (PERS) as it relates to on- the-job injuries. With this change, a person on leave without pay who receives workers' compensation benefits, due to an on-the-job injury, can apply for service credit for that time and pay the indebtedness. The remainder of the bill addresses assault issues. The major change in CSHB 226, made by a House committee the previous day, is that a teacher must have received a physical injury from the assault. CHAIRMAN MILLER asked where that change was made in the bill. MR. BELL said that provision was inserted throughout the bill by the legislative drafter. MR. BELL added that other technical issues related to normal retirement benefits and disabiity retirement in TRS were addressed, in particular when a person is disabled as a result of the assault. MR. BELL said the costs, from an actuarial point of view, are immaterial to the system. SENATOR ELTON noted other kinds of assault injuries, such as emotional injuries, can be equally debilitating. He asked what amount the fiscal note would contain if other types of injuries are included. MR. BELL said that would be very difficult to quantify and is the reason the Division wanted the bill to specify physical injuries. CHAIRMAN MILLER asked Rynnieva Moss to update the committee on HB 226. Number 325 RYNNIEVA MOSS, legislative aide to Representative Coghill, explained the latest House version specifies that the injury must be physical. In addition, in Section 1, AS 14.25.140(a) was inserted so that the benefit would terminate once the employee was put on disability pension. Also, in Section 6, after AS 39.45.370, language was added that terminates PERS eligibility when a disability pension kicks in. The original version of HB 226 contained some drafting errors that were also corrected. CHAIRMAN MILLER asked Mr. Bell if he had any objections to the House HESS committee substitute to HB 226. MR. BELL said he did not. SENATOR WILKEN moved to incorporate the changes made in CSHB 226 into SB 170, and to moved SB 170 as amended out of committee with individual recommendations. There being no objection, the motion carried. HB 70-PUBLIC SCHOOL SURVEYS TAPE 99-28 Number 400 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON, sponsor of HB 70, informed committee members that about 25 years ago the Legislature enacted AS 14.03.110, which defines when parental consent is necessary for student participation in school surveys and questionnaires. The Basic Youth Risk Survey was recently administered, and because participants remain anonymous, confusion has arisen about whether parental permission is necessary. He was contacted by concerned parents who wanted to be "in the loop." Initially, a drafter from the Division of Legal Services informed him that inserting the word "personal" into statute would require parental consent. However, after the Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS) expressed concern that obtaining active parental consent for hundreds of children would be difficult, he revisited the bill. The bill was then changed to revise the statute to allow parents to give blanket approval for anonymous surveys at the time the student registers. It continues to require parental notification when surveys are conducted and allows parents to review each survey. Some educators have expressed concern that they will be prevented from asking personal questions when dealing with students with behavioral problems, or about the students' real or apparent dysfunction. He noted during last minute efforts on the House floor, a few changes were not adopted. He asked committee members to consider amending the measure to adopt those changes which are contained in Amendment Education (DOE) concern that some educators will interpret the bill to prohibit them from asking and recording personal questions of a student who is believed to be at risk for violent behavior. Amendment #2 clearly defines that the bill applies to group surveys, not to the efforts of an educator to do individual interventions. CHAIRMAN MILLER stated it is his understanding that Amendment #2 was drafted by Representative Dyson and Commissioner Cross. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said that is correct and added that DOE has bent over backwards to work with him on this bill. CHAIRMAN MILLER asked for an explanation of Amendment #1. LISA TORKELSON, legislative aide to Representative Dyson, explained that when she sent a memo requesting changes to the Division of Legal Services during the last minute effort to pass the bill on the House floor, the Division missed one change and she missed one. The first change allows for the blanket permission opportunity, which is active parental support. A form giving parents the option of granting permission could be provided to each parent. The intent of the blanket permission form is to save money. It would provide for follow-up notification to parents at least two weeks prior to the survey and it provides a second opportunity to say "no." The second change applies the opportunity to for parents to review each questionnaire, whether the questionnaire is intended for anonymous participation or not. Language on page 2 requires a school to provide written notice of how the questionnaire will be administered, how the results will be used, and who will have access to the survey. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON added very few educators continue to have concerns about the changes; however, health agency officials want data from the Youth Behavior Risk Surveys and believe getting blanket approval at the time of registration will be too difficult. A valid survey response requires participation by one-sixth of the student population. Most school districts can easily administer the permission requirement as it will entail adding one more box to a form. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated some school districts have used this opportunity to increase parental participation in their schools and to prompt discussion. Number 488 SENATOR ELTON referred to Representative Dyson's statement that only one-sixth of a student body need participate to validate the survey results, and stated narrowing the survey field allows people to self select involvement thereby impacting the validity of the survey. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON noted that observation is valid and that the parents who might not want their child to participate in an anonymous survey might be the parents the school most needs to hear from. He stated some schools have allowed for passive permission in which a child is sent home with a survey that is completed at home and returned. That method also contains an inadvertent selection process. Some school districts send certified letters. He surmised that irresponsibility on the part of parents in not responding to their mail distorts the survey results as much as the active permission requirement. SENATOR WILKEN moved to adopt Amendment #1 (KA.1) which reads as follows. Page 1, line 15, following ".": Insert "The school shall provide each student's parent or legal guardian at least two weeks' notice before administering a questionnaire or survey described under this subsection." Page 2. lines 4-5: Delete all material. Insert "questionnaire or survey is administered. (d) The school shall give a student's parent or legal guardian an opportunity to review the questionnaire or survey described under (b) or (c) of this section and shall" Reletter the following subsections accordingly. SENATOR ELTON objected on the basis that Amendment 1 is fairly substantive as the bill now provides that general permission be requested once per year by a school district. Amendment 1 provides another threshold: it imposes an additional requirement on districts by requiring that further approval be obtained two weeks before each survey is conducted. He noted he is much more comfortable with the bill as written. MS. TORKELSON indicated most school districts currently notify parents two weeks in advance in the form of a newsletter or note. That notification only applies to those who have given blanket permission for anonymous surveys. Number 534 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON added USC 20.1232 limits the surveys that can be conducted by schools and says, "educational institutions shall give parents and students effective notice of their rights ...." He explained Amendment 1 merely requires two week notification and gives parents the right to inspect the survey upon request. Amendment 1 was adopted with Senators Wilken, Pete Kelly, and Miller voting "yea," and Senator Elton voting "nay." SENATOR WILKEN moved Amendment 2 which reads as follows. Page 2, following line 12: Insert a new subsection to read: "(e) In this section, "questionnaire or survey" means a list of questions to, or information collected from, a class or group of students." SENATOR ELTON objected for the purpose of proposing an amendment to Amendment 2. He stated his concern with the existing amendment is that if a teacher asks a class whether it watched the television program "60 Minutes" and then asked whether students agreed with the premise of the show, i.e., the glass ceiling for women, that the teacher has asked a list of questions which fits the definition of Amendment 2, thereby enacting the two week notice violation. He suggested amending Amendment 2 by adding the following language to the end of the last sentence, "and where the information is to be given to another entity." He explained that language would specify that the provision applies to information collected from the student group and then transferred to another entity. CHAIRMAN MILLER expressed concern that without the entire statute before him, it is difficult to determine whether this section refers to written surveys only. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he understands Senator Elton's concern and is not opposed to his amendment, but he is unsure that it is necessary. He noted the bill was designed to address large group surveys conducted for a purpose other than classroom teaching. CHAIRMAN MILLER referred to the statute and clarified that Amendment 2 applies to questionnaires that inquire into personal or private family matters of a student, therefore he did not believe the teacher's inquiry, in Senator Elton's example, would fall under this bill. TAPE 99-28, SIDE B SENATOR ELTON maintained the committee should not focus on the only example he provided as other scenarios might apply in which a teacher asks questions to prompt discussion and not to obtain information for another entity. CHAIRMAN MILLER repeated that Amendment 2 applies to surveys about personal or private family matters, and that even if the survey results are to be kept in house, he believes parental permission should be required. Number 576 SENATOR ELTON suggested defining "personal and private" within the bill to protect Chairman Miller's concern. He thought that a person's political persuasion is a personal matter, as well as whether a student has an addiction. He also expressed concern that questions can be phrased in such a way that personal information can be surmised from the response. SENATOR WILKEN suggested specifying that Amendment 2 applies to a written list of questions requiring an individual written response. SENATOR ELTON indicated that if his amendment fails, he would support Senator Wilken's suggested language because it narrows the focus. SENATOR WILKEN said that as a parent he would not want a teacher asking his child certain types of questions, whether the questions are designed to be used in house or not. CHAIRMAN MILLER expressed concern that the amendment not be narrowed too much because he would be opposed, for example, to a teacher asking for a show of hands of the number of students who had sexual intercourse, even though the teacher did not intend to use the information outside of the class. SENATOR ELTON said he does not agree that kind of a question is appropriate whether written or not, and it is an egregious example of what could happen and is part of a different debate. He maintained that the bill does not address classroom discussion but is designed to address questionnaires and surveys, therefore that the bill should specify that questionnaires and surveys are instruments used to collect data for another entity for a specific purpose. Number 527 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON pointed out the House Judiciary Committee spent many afternoons discussing the same questions, and that the issue comes down to one's philosophy. He noted the country of India's constitution is 4+ feet thick because it contains provisions for many "what if" scenarios. He stated Alaska's Constitution has a marvelous guarantee of privacy, and one paragraph regarding this issue in Alaska's statutes has served us well for many years. It is only when the Youth Behavior Risk Survey came into being that this bill was created because the statute does not contain the word "personal," regarding survey questions. He argued that if the solution is further definition in the bill, DOE can solve the problem in regulation. He also stated that he believes Alaska teachers are a high quality group, therefore the statute should be kept as simple as possible. CHAIRMAN MILLER asked if there was further discussion about the amendment to Amendment 2. There being no further discussion, the amendment to Amendment 2 failed with Senators Wilken, Kelly, and Miller voting "nay," and Senator Elton voting "yea." SENATOR WILKEN moved to adopt Amendment 2 as follows. "(e) In this section, "questionnaire or survey" means a written list of questions requiring an individual written response." CHAIRMAN MILLER objected. SENATOR ELTON questioned whether, by removing the reference to a group of students, Amendment 2 will affect interactions between students and counselors. SENATOR WILKEN moved to amend Amendment 2 to read: "(e) In this section, "questionnaire or survey" means a written list of questions requiring an individual written response from a class or group of students." CHAIRMAN MILLER stated his concern with Amendment 2 is that it was worked on by Commissioner Cross, a former Superintendent of the Fairbanks school district, who worked on a lot of these issues. Commissioner Cross actually threw out some questions proposed by the Fairbanks school district on the basis the questions were too personal. He stated he feels more comfortable with Amendment 2 as is, knowing Commissioner Cross has experience in this area and believes the original Amendment 2 is workable for school districts. SENATOR WILKEN asked Representative Dyson his opinion of the amendment to Amendment 2. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied he is comfortable with what the drafters and Commissioner came up with. SENATOR WILKEN withdrew his amendment to Amendment 2. CHAIRMAN MILLER announced Amendment 2(KA.2) was before the committee. There being no objection, Amendment 2 was adopted. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON proposed Amendment 3 which will add the following phrase to line 10, page 2: "(d) A student may, without penalty, refuse to participate in a questionnaire or survey administered in a public school." Number 461 SENATOR ELTON asked that the Department of Education comment on Amendment 3. He questioned whether surveys are conducted in which the results are shared with participants only, and if so, whether Amendment 3 will force the sharing of that information with people who refuse to participate. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he did not think so. He recounted his school experience with students who could not participate in the Pledge of Allegiance because of religious convictions. Those students were made to feel odd about it. He added the intent of Amendment 3 is to ensure that nothing official is done to penalize or ostracize students who do not participate. CHAIRMAN MILLER stated he views Amendment 3 as prohibiting official action against a student for non-participation in a survey. SENATOR WILKEN moved to adopt Amendment 3. SENATOR ELTON objected. BETH LAPE, Department of Education, stated she did not have any background on the penalty issue. SENATOR ELTON again asked if surveys are taken in which the survey results are shared with participants only, and whether Amendment 3 will compel the sharing of results with people who refuse to participate in the survey. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON clarified the anonymous survey results are compiled for general use. No mechanism exists to discriminate who will receive the aggregated data. Number 409 SENATOR ELTON questioned whether the results of a survey of students with sexually transmitted diseases would be shared with people who refused to participate in the survey. CHAIRMAN MILLER thought that issue does not relate to the amendment which prohibits punishing students who refuse to participate. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said the bone of contention is on the anonymous surveys, therefore no link between the data and participants should exist. CHAIRMAN MILLER announced Amendment 3 failed with Senator Wilken and Chairman Miller voting "yea," and Senators Pete Kelly and Elton voting "nay." SENATOR WILKEN asked if the Youth Risk Behavior Survey is administered to an entire class. MS. TORKELSON said it takes one class period to complete. SENATOR WILKEN questioned how the results could be reliable unless the margin of error is great. ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant to Commissioner Perdue, Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS), stated the Youth Risk Behavior Survey is the "gold standard" of that type of survey. It is the only survey of its type administered nationwide, therefore results can be compared to other states. It represents a statistically valid sample selected from sample districts and is sponsored by the National Center for Disease Control. SENATOR WILKEN moved SCS CSHB 70(HES) from committee with individual recommendations and its zero fiscal note. SENATOR ELTON objected. The motion to move SCS CSHB 70(HES) from committee carried with Senators Wilken, Kelly, and Chairman Miller voting "yea," and Senator Elton voting "nay." CHAIRMAN MILLER adjourned the meeting.