SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE April 17, 1998 9:10 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Gary Wilken, Chairman Senator Loren Leman, Vice-Chairman Senator Lyda Green Senator Jerry Ward MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Johnny Ellis COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE BILL NO. 367 am "An Act relating to part-time public school students; and providing for an effective date." HEARD AND HELD PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION HB 367 am - No previous Senate committee action. WITNESS REGISTER Representative Fred Dyson Alaska State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99811-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 367 Lisa Torkelson Staff to Representative Dyson Alaska State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99811-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HB 367 am Robert Yahara P.O. Box 230129 Anchorage, Alaska 99523 POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 367 am Eddy Jeans Manager, School Finance Section Department of Education 801 W 10th Street, Suite 200 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1894 POSITION STATEMENT: No stated position on HB 367 am ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 98-35, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN WILKEN called the Senate Health, Education and Social Services (HESS) Committee to order at 9:10 a.m. Present were Senators Ward, Leman, and Chairman Wilken. The committee took up HB 367 am. Senator Green arrived at 9:11 a.m. HB 367 - PART-TIME PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENT ENROLLMENT Representative Fred Dyson, sponsor of HB 367, and Lisa Torkelson, staff to Representative Dyson, presented HB 367 to the committee as follows. In some sense, HB 367 is an unnecessary bill. Last year the Legislature passed a bill prohibiting discrimination against part-time students. The language in that law provides that part- time students can only be denied enrollment in a class or other educational opportunity if full-time students are denied enrollment on the same basis. The Legislature fully expected that the Alaska Department of Education (DOE) would change its regulations to conform with that law. The State Board of Education has calendared the subject of a regulation change in regard to this issue for its mid-summer meeting. After the law was enacted, the Anchorage School Board decided to continue its policy of making part-time students "go to the back of the line." No other school board has adopted that same policy. School boards around the state deal with part-time students with varying degrees of enthusiasm. The Fairbanks North Star Borough School District has been very accommodating and the Sitka and Mat-Su School Districts have made an art form of providing better services to every student in their districts. HB 367 was introduced to put a hammer on DOE and the Anchorage School Board. HB 367 tightens up the law and requires that the regulations be changed to reflect the intent of last year's bill. The Anchorage School District has approximately 45,000 students; only 94 are part-time, therefore accommodating the part-time students should not cause any significant impact. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON discussed a few practical matters raised by educators. For instance, when a senior needs a class to meet graduation requirements, that senior should be given priority over a junior. Last year's bill prohibits discrimination against part- time students only on the basis that the students are part-time. School districts have questioned how they will schedule students without knowing the number of part-time students that will enroll. The answer is to require part-time students to meet the same standards as full-time students for early enrollment. In his district, 25 percent of students are new to the district each year. District demographers have learned to predict the number of classes that will be needed, so this problem is largely non-existent. One school superintendent stated that giving preferential treatment to full-time students is not discriminatory, i.e., out-of-state college students pay higher tuition. That argument is contrary to our responsibility for all children in the state under Alaska's Constitution. Number 115 SENATOR LEMAN stated HB 367 am is consistent with the legislative intent of the measure that passed last year. He noted he is disappointed that the law was not implemented according to that intent and he supports this measure. SENATOR GREEN asked Representative Dyson why language on lines 11 through 13 on page 1, which state that the bill does not pertain to extracurricular and interscholastic activities, was included. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied when he put the bill together last year he chose to deal with academics only, as he did not want to take on the issue of extracurricular activities. He believes the Constitution makes clear that academics are the State's responsibility for education, so he thought every school district could decide its standards for interscholastic and extracurricular activities. HB 367 was amended on the House floor by the Majority leader to reinforce that the bill applies to academics only. He stated he would be delighted if the committee wants to amend the bill and remove that section. SENATOR GREEN thought the House floor amendment was unfortunate because she had introduced legislation a few years ago to provide home schoolers the opportunity to enroll in after school activities, and to require consistent policies within districts regarding enrollment in those activities. She noted Alaska has strong activity standards but different school districts have different policies, which she believes is wrong. She stated she believes any student should be able to participate in extracurricular activities. Number 167 MS. TORKELSON commented last year, when the Legislature was dealing with HB 158, it heard a lot of opposition to the bill because of the extracurricular activity problem. That concern was a moot point because the bill did not address extracurricular activities. Representative Dyson's intent is to take on the issue of academics first, and then sometime down the road deal with the issue of extracurricular activities. She explained ASAA, the interscholastic activity group that each district belongs to, sets the policy on extracurricular activities. SENATOR GREEN responded ASAA only has the authority given them by its member organizations, and it is not a governing body. She repeated that her main concern is that the extracurricular policy is inconsistent and arbitrary within districts and throughout the state. Number 199 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he is very sympathetic to Senator Green's position but including that position in the bill will enlist a whole new group of enemies. He stated it is a battle he is willing to fight but he is not sure that now is the time to do it. SENATOR GREEN said she would like to address the issue next year. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated it gives some weight to a quasi- constitutional objection that people have. The objection heard last year was that if extracurricular activities are included, the result will be that a church-related school, across the street from a public high school, can offer what it wants to and then send its students to the high school to participate in the band, etc. That arrangement will create a de facto support for a sectarian school that does not have to spend funds on an interscholastic football program or other extracurricular activities because it can "freeload" off of the public schools. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said those who support that argument do not think that taxpayers, who send their children to private schools, should get a tax break on the school taxes they pay. Number 222 ROBERT YAHARA testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He stated he supports HB 367 am and believes that it is important that part-time students be able to utilize public school facilities. He did not think it is the intention of home schoolers or church- related school students to get de facto support for sectarian schools, but rather to get equal access. All property owners pay taxes to support the mandated government school system and all parents want the opportunity to benefit from those taxes. He hopes the 40,000 young people in the public school system get a good, moral-based education that will help them to mature and become good citizens, and to be able to enjoy family relationships and other important things. He noted this is the first testimony he has given via teleconference. He thanked the committee and urged them to support HB 367 am. CHAIRMAN WILKEN stated he has been surprised to see how much legislators rely on the teleconference network in Juneau, and thanked Mr. Yahara for taking the time to testify. SENATOR LEMAN asked Mr. Yahara if he has a daughter named Shelly. MR. YAHARA said he does, and that she attended Grace Community Christian School. SENATOR LEMAN asked how HB 367 am might have changed Shelly's education, especially in regard to having the opportunity to tap into the music program in the public school. MR. YAHARA replied that not knowing what avenues were available, he never looked into it. He has other children attending school, ages 15, 13, and 11, and given this option he would look at alternatives to see what might work for them. The committee took a brief at-ease. [END OF TAPE] TAPE 98-36, SIDE A CHAIRMAN WILKEN commented that his understanding last year was that a part-time student had to sit on the sideline until space was available in the class. He asked Representative Dyson if schools are mandated to educate a part-time student under this bill, will the state pick up the responsibility for that child at the end of the process, so that when it comes time for the home schooler to graduate, will the public school owe that child the opportunity to take the exit exam and grant him/her a diploma. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied it will not. If a part-time student wants to enroll in a class that is full with 28 students, HB 367 am will only require that the part-time student not be treated any differently than a full-time student who might also want entry into the class. If the class can accommodate more students, fine, but if not, then whatever criteria is used to decide whether to start a new class must be applied to both students. He repeated that HB 367 am is an anti-discrimination bill. SENATOR WILKEN indicated he sensed some reluctance on behalf of the state to pick up responsibility for home schoolers when the bill was heard last year, because there was no way to assess or monitor those students' progress. He noted he was surprised that, at the end of the process, no diploma is given. He asked if DOE has stated any position on this bill as to its responsibility. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied he has spoken to several of the alternative education groups about whether they would like to participate in the state testing process so that their students can receive diplomas, but the jury is still out on that question. He guessed that some of those groups will choose to do so as another way of authenticating a student's performance that might be valuable to an employer or a college. MS. TORKELSON added that many home schoolers were leery about the exit exam because they did not have enough information about it. At this time, they prefer to get a GED. Regarding the question of whether home schoolers would get a high school diploma, the home schooled student must take the required classes given at that school to meet the district's requirements to get a diploma. Taking a few classes at a public school does not make a home schooled student eligible for a diploma from that district. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Mr. Jeans if, in DOE's opinion, by allowing part-time students to take classes at public schools, those students will fall under the state mandate to provide for the education of students thereby requiring public schools to monitor their progress and pick up the responsibility at the end for their education. EDDY JEANS, School Finance Manager of DOE, stated DOE has not had those discussions. He believed the public school classes would be viewed as a supplement to the educational program of part-time students. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked that DOE submit any comments it has on that issue to him. He also asked Mr. Jeans if a correspondence student who takes one class at a public school would actually be funded as more than one full time student. MR. JEANS replied within a school district's home boundaries, DOE has taken the position that the district can only claim the student once (as one FTE), however in some instances, students are enrolled in statewide correspondence programs as full-time students, and also attend a community school. Those students would be counted on a fractional basis which could generate more than one FTE. CHAIRMAN WILKEN stated, as a general policy, he did not think DOE would want a student to count as more than one FTE in any case. MR. JEANS responded he was not sure he could agree because the educational institute providing those services should be compensated for doing so. He noted a student might be taking correspondence courses to supplement his/her full-time public school attendance to graduate one year earlier. He stated DOE would either pay the cost in a three year period or spread it over four years. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Mr. Jeans if, from his perspective, HB 367 am would not create any double accounting problems or inflated student count problems. MR. JEANS maintained double counting could occur, but it is not as big of an issue as people make it out to be. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked if there is a way to quantify what the state may be exposing itself to. MR. JEANS replied DOE does not currently collect information on part-time students. The only way DOE could monitor what students are doing would be to create a statewide system of student identifiers so that it could track which courses students are taking and the status of the student's educational program. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated that one school district was adamant about not taking part-time students until it was approached by two boys who were correspondence students who weighed over 240 pounds. The football coach was easily able to get the district to change its policy toward part-time students. CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced he would hold the bill over until Wednesday, at 9:00 a.m., and then adjourned the meeting.