SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE April 1, 1998 9:08 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Gary Wilken, Chairman Senator Loren Leman, Vice-Chairman Senator Lyda Green Senator Jerry Ward Senator Johnny Ellis MEMBERS ABSENT COMMITTEE CALENDAR SENATE BILL NO. 253 "An Act relating to medical assistance for certain disabled persons; relating to personal care services for recipients of medical assistance; and providing for an effective date." HEARD AND HELD SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 203 "An Act relating to phonemic awareness, letter-sound correspondence, word-attack skills, spelling, vocabulary, use of decodable text, reading comprehension strategies, and testing for basic reading and reading comprehension skills in the public school system." HEARD AND HELD PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION SB 253 - No previous Senate committee action. SB 203 - See HESS minutes dated 2/20/98, 2/23/98 and 3/23/98. WITNESS REGISTER Patti Swenson Legislative Aide to Representative Con Bunde Alaska State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions about SB 253 Robert Briggs Disability Law Center 230 South Franklin, Suite 209 Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 253 Jon Sherwood Division of Public Health Department of Health and Social Services P.O. Box 110610 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0610 POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questioned and expressed support of SB 253 Mr. Dennis Murray Heritage Place 232 Rockwell Avenue Soldotna, Alaska 99669 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on the provision dealing with personal care attendants in SB 253 Howard Hedges Box 779 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 253 Ms. Patricia Arnold 3600 Crittendon #A3 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Millie Ryan Governor's Council on Disabilities and Special Education P.O. Box 240249 Anchorage, Alaska 99524 POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 253 Patrick Reinhart Alaska Independent Living Council 1016 W 6th Avenue #205 Anchorage, Alaska 99501 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 253 Dr. Nick Stayrook North Star Fairbanks School District and Consultant to DOE 520 Fifth Avenue Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SSSB 203 Mr. A.M. Johnson 1527 Pond Reef Road Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SSSB 203 Ms. Hannah Ramiskey Alaska School Board 428 Tower Road Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SSSB 203 Greg Garrison Hoonah, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SSSB 203 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 98-29, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN WILKEN called the Senate Health, Education and Social Services (HESS) Committee to order at 9:08 a.m. Present were Senators Green, Ellis and Chairman Wilken. The first order of business before the committee was SB 253. SB 253 - MEDICAL ASS'T FOR CERTAIN DISABLED PERSON CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced a committee substitute for SB 253 had been prepared (version E). SENATOR ELLIS moved to adopt the committee substitute as the working document of the committee. There being no objection, the motion carried. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked whether CSSB 253(HES) was identical to the House version of the bill. PATTI SWENSON, legislative aide to Representative Con Bunde, stated CSSB253(HES) is identical to the House version. CHAIRMAN WILKEN noted the bill would be presented by Ms. Swenson, on behalf of Representative Bunde, and Bob Briggs. Number 045 ROBERT BRIGGS, an attorney with the Disability Law Center, gave the following testimony on CSSB 253. The Disability Law Center is a non-profit corporation that represents disabled clients, throughout the state, on legal matters related to their disabilities. The Disability Law Center has offices in Fairbanks, Bethel, Anchorage and Juneau. His primary motivation for working on this subject was prompted by a client, named Dawn, who was the recipient of a liver transplant as the result of complications from having systemic lupus. When Dawn went to work in January after recuperating from the transplant, she lost all health benefits she received with public assistance while not working. Because of pre-existing condition rules, the health insurance she was provided through her employer would not cover her condition until July of 1998. After engaging in discussion and litigation with the State over whether Dawn should be eligible for Medicaid under existing law, the Disability Law Center decided that DHSS was correct that she was not eligible. Last fall, the Disability Law Center began to consider ways to change the law. Dawn no longer needs the benefits of this bill, but asked Mr. Briggs to continue to work on this subject to prevent the same problem from happening to other people like her. Dawn earns $1700 per month gross income; her net income is $1200 per month. Her regular medical expenses are $1200 per month, including $900 for immunosuppressant medications. The Disability Law Center suspects there is a small group of people in Alaska in a situation similar to Dawn's. A constant refrain of people within the disability community is that if one is medically fragile, bridging the gap between being on public welfare roles and receiving Medicaid and Medicare is difficult to do. Frequently a disabling condition is life changing and causes one to enter a new line of work that might be part-time or an entry level job with no health benefits. MR. BRIGGS informed committee members that Congress passed the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 which gives states the option to provide medicaid on a buy-in basis to low income, disabled workers. The basic criteria is that the participant's income cannot be greater than 250 percent of the poverty threshold, and the participant has to contribute into the system on a sliding fee scale, to be determined at the discretion of the State. Two bills exercise this option. SB 253 is the Governor's bill on this subject; the second bill is HB 459, which Mr. Briggs believes contains slightly better provisions. CSSB 253 is identical to HB 459 as it passed the House Finance Committee just last week. The fiscal impact of both bills is modest. In the first year, the state will spend a total of $2,500 general fund dollars to put 17 people back to work. The expense is modest because of the projected savings to the general fund from reducing reliance on the Adult Public Assistance Program. MR. BRIGGS handed out a document entitled, Summary of Fiscal Impact of CSHB 459 (FIN) (Medicaid Buy-In Option), and noted page 2 contains a list of the numbers extracted from the four fiscal notes for HB 459 that pertains to the impact on the general fund. He explained the State will realize a $76,000 savings by the second year of this program, a $200,000 savings in the third year, and $300,000 in the fourth year. The general fund impact is quite favorable. Number 129 CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked what the numbers in FY 00 mean. MR. BRIGGS explained for FY 00, the projected expense of HB 459 for medicaid facilities is $59,000 of general fund monies. For medicaid non-facilities, the general fund expense is projected to be $54,700. For health purchasing group, the projected expense is zero. The savings in Adult Public Assistance funds projected from putting 17 people back to work in the first year, and 28 people back to work in the second year, is $190,000. Mr. Briggs clarified these numbers were based on the fiscal notes, and are not his own projections. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked if the $190,000 is the result of taking 28 people off of the Adult Public Assistance Program. MR. BRIGGS said yes, and the number will probably be higher than 28. He clarified that the fiscal notes expect 17 people to take advantage of the program in the first year if it begins in the middle of the fiscal year, and 28 will take advantage of it in the second year. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked if that number will increase continually to FY04 with additional people. Number 152 MR. BRIGGS said a sloping line is projected, with 28 people in FY 00, 23 people in FY 01, 23 in FY 02, 22 in FY 03, and 21 in FY 04. CHAIRMAN WILKEN questioned whether the Adult Public Assistance amounts are cumulative. MR. BRIGGS said he believes so but has not analyzed the document that closely. CHAIRMAN WILKEN noted the Medicaid Facilities amounts do not appear to be cumulative but the Adult Public Assistance amounts do. He asked Mr. Briggs to clarify those numbers for committee members at a later date. MR. BRIGGS stated Mr. Sherwood, from the Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS) was available to answer questions. Number 168 JON SHERWOOD, Division of Medical Assistance, DHSS, explained the Adult Public Assistance amounts are cumulative. That category applies to people who would otherwise be on Adult Public Assistance, return to work, and no longer receive public assistance. The medical assistance line is not cumulative. The phenomenon that DHSS tried to capture is that the people who will be most impacted by this bill are people who will receive medicaid whether this legislation is enacted or not. For those people, the issue is whether they can return to work and go off of Adult Public Assistance. Because this provision is available, people who are already transitioning off of Medicaid and returning to work may stay on Medicaid a little longer as a result of these provisions. What DHSS is trying to reflect in the fiscal notes is the fact that there will be a small increase as some people who would otherwise go off Medicaid a little sooner will stay on a little longer, but overall, DHSS does not expect the people generally impacted by this bill to be people who would stop receiving Medicaid because they cannot afford to take the risk of returning to work without medical coverage. MR. BRIGGS concluded his testimony by urging committee members to favorably consider CSSB 253(HES), or similar legislation, and to take advantage of the opportunity provided by Congress for offering Medicaid on a buy-in basis for disabled workers. In our society, work is one of the most valuable attributes of being a citizen, and people who are disabled want to be part of that community. MR. SHERWOOD added that DHSS is very supportive of this legislation. He commented the option became available through the federal program this past summer, and DHSS is pleased to see legislation before the Legislature this session. Number 209 SENATOR GREEN asked for the definition of the phrase "disabled persons" used in the bill. MR. BRIGGS replied a disabled person is someone who has an impairment that affects one or more life activities, such as impairment of vision or hearing, and usually that impairment has to be severe enough to prevent the person from being able to engage in substantial gainful activity of $500 or more in a particular month, according to the Social Security Administration. SENATOR GREEN asked whether that definition is included in the bill. MR. BRIGGS said it is not. SENATOR GREEN remarked the current challenge to the term "disabled" is the inclusion of people with HIV. Her concern was that the phrase is broad and not clearly defined, and it might have unintended consequences. MR. BRIGGS responded that a definition of "disability" is referenced in the bill on page 2, lines 6-8. That language is a reference to eligibility requirements based on disability. He pointed out the federal rules pertaining to disability are specific. The litigation referred to by Senator Green is before the Supreme Court and relates to who is a disabled person under the Americans with Disabilities Act. That is a separate question from who is eligible for disability benefits. He believed there is a higher threshold for eligibility for disability benefits under the Social Security Act. Mr. Briggs said the federal program will be paying 60 percent of the costs of this Medicaid program, and he believes it will have stringent eligibility rules. Number 254 SENATOR GREEN asked if there is any overlap with the Comprehensive Health Insurance Association (CHIA) plan. MR. BRIGGS replied it is possible for some people to take advantage of the CHIA program if they have been denied insurance by two or more insurance carriers. He noted his client, Dawn Pedersen, did not take advantage of the CHIA program is because it has a six month pre-existing rule and because the premiums are not always affordable. SENATOR GREEN noted the list in CSSB 253 contains a prioritization of services but then changes to a list of individuals. She asked what range of services those individuals, listed in numbers 28 through 32, are eligible for. Number 283 MR. BRIGGS said he would interpret the section to follow the legal doctrine of the specific controls the general, meaning that where specific services are listed in priority, and the list later contains specific categories of people, an individual in the 26th category could not get social worker services if no funds are available for those services. SENATOR GREEN asked if the people who fall under category #26 would be ineligible for any services except those on the list. Number 302 SENATOR LEMAN clarified those people would not be eligible for any service that has been excluded because of lack of funding. MR. SHERWOOD clarified the services on the list are the services which are optional: states have the option of including those services in their medicaid programs. The mandatory services in the program are available to anyone who is eligible for medicaid, if he/she has a medical need for those services, i.e., inpatient hospital stays or physician's visits. The mandatory services are not listed in CSSB 253. CHAIRMAN WILKEN noted Senators Leman and Ward joined the committee. SENATOR LEMAN referred to Section 4, the Transitional Provision, and asked if it would make more sense for DHSS to establish a temporary sliding fee scale now, otherwise there is little incentive for DHSS to get the sliding fee scale regulations completed. MR. BRIGGS replied the House HESS committee came up with that section as a proposal for the transition. The Governor's bill, SB 253, is silent as to how the sliding fee scale is to be implemented. He thought the addition of that section is an improvement because it does require regulations, and by a specific time. Mr. Briggs said he was formerly an assistant attorney general, and is now involved in litigation with the State over getting some regulations promulgated, and he knows how slow that process is. He thought one year is the minimum amount of time necessary to get regulations out. He did not believe this particular provision would classify as a subject for emergency regulations. He added the fiscal note projection is based on a five percent contribution and the purpose of the program is to help people get back to work. If the premiums are set too high, the purpose will be frustrated. Number 358 CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Senator Leman if he was referring to page 4, line 19. SENATOR LEMAN stated he was referring to both Sections 4 and 5, and the language on page 2, lines 7 through 11. He thought the bill should have a different type of transitional provision. He suggested using a sliding fee scale that ranges from zero to ten percent from the poverty line to 250 percent of the poverty line. CHAIRMAN WILKEN said he will follow up on that idea. He noted the title was changed on the House bill so that it no longer pertains only to disabled people, but also to midwives. He asked if Ms. Swenson could share any information about that change. MS. SWENSON explained the House Finance Committee members changed the list that appears on page 2 of CSSB 253(HES) by moving midwife services down to number 15 because they wanted to make those services available. Representative Bunde offered the amendment to the committee at the request of Senator Leman. Representative Therriault asked to have the title tightened up so that those services could not be moved again. She clarified the change only had to do with where midwife services were placed on the list. Number 390 MR. HOWARD HEDGES testified via teleconference from Homer on his own behalf. He stated on April 1, 1993, he had a stroke that attacked his left side. He continues physical therapy today, and has regained some functions. In June of 1996, he felt strong enough to return to work. When he did so, his medicaid benefits would expire after one year. During that year, he tried to find a way to get continued medicaid coverage because of the complications caused by his stroke and diabetes. Coverage through the CHIA program would have cost $705 per month with a $2500 deductible and a six month waiting list before any payment would occur. He was released from his job June 1, 1997 so that he could again receive public assistance and medicaid. CSSB 253 will allow him to return to work. He was earning $28,000 per year; now he draws social security disability insurance and Adult Public Assistance. Number 414 MILLIE RYAN, a planner with the Governor's Council on Disabilities and Special Education, made the following remarks via teleconference. The Council recently completed its three year state plan planning process. The Council heard from many people around the State about the different work disincentives that affect them. The Council is working with a number of different agencies and people to address those work disincentives. The Council supports this bill because it will help disabled people return to work. PATRICK RINEHART, Executive Director of the State Independent Living Council, testified in support of CSSB 253. He informed committee members that Council members discussed this issue with the Senate HESS committee earlier in the session. The Council is very supportive of CSSB 253 and urges the committee to support the bill as well. Number 430 DENNIS MURRAY, testifying via teleconference from Kenai, made the following comments about the provision in Section 3 that pertains to personal care attendant services. Lutheran Health Systems Heritage Place provides services to some 50 persons in the Kenai Peninsula. He is a provider of those services in the Kenai Peninsula area. CSSB 253 proposes to eliminate language in Alaska statute regarding authorization and oversight for personal care services. The personal care attendant (PCA) coordinator at Heritage Place is a registered nurse, as required under current statute. CSSB 253 changes that requirement and provides that the oversight of personal care attendants must be consistent with a care plan. The R.N. requirement was placed in statute as a protection to the consumer and to the State, in terms of use of its resources. Some believe the R.N. requirement is overkill and creates unnecessary costs to the program, however he believes the requirement is valid to provide standards of service, and its elimination could have untold consequences. Mr. Murray explained the personal care attendant service is medical in nature and is paid for by medicaid. He urged the committee to look at recent audits of services and some of the problems that occur when clear standards of practice are not established. He did not think an individual care plan will address the issues identified. He urged caution with respect to who can provide the service. The federal government has redefined a recipient's family to only include a spouse and/or parent. With all of the legislation that has recently been passed in the last two or three years to protect frail and vulnerable individuals, he is concerned that the state will be paying for services on a routine basis provided by family members. He felt that situation should be the exception and not the rule. Number 469 SENATOR GREEN asked Mr. Murray which version of the bill he was referring to. MR. MURRAY said he was referring to page 4 of CSSB 253, subsection 15. MR. BRIGGS commented that with regard to personal care attendant services, to a certain extent it is unrelated to the question of whether the state should exercise the option to provide medicaid on a buy-in basis. The issues are connected in the sense that the definition that would be changed does relate to medicaid. The current definition of personal care services under state law is more restrictive than the definition used for medicaid reimbursements under federal law. The purpose of the change in CSSB 253 is to make the state and federal definitions the same which will allow more flexibility in how those services are provided. He said regarding the provision that prevents family members from receiving medicaid reimbursement for personal care attendant services, he noted there are cases in which family members are the only people able to care for the recipient because no other services are available in the area. He stated he believes that provision is a good idea, but the committee should not let the inclusion of Section 3 prevent movement of the bill. Mr. Briggs thought the change in definition of personal care services will broaden the way those services can be delivered and help people get to work who are unable to work now because of their severe disabilities. MR. MURRAY stated he is certainly not arguing against passage of the bill, but payment to family members for personal care services should be the exception, not the rule. He said his concern, after 25 years in the business, is that there are some dangers associated with that provision. He cautioned that eliminating standards that have validity is ill advised. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Mr. Murray to describe Heritage Place. MR. MURRAY answered Heritage Place is a nursing facility that also provides home care services. He thought nursing facilities play an integral role in the delivery of services. Tape 98-29, Side B SENATOR GREEN questioned whether Mr. Briggs found any inconsistency in the definition of "disability" within the U.S. Code, because the bill implies that the person, to be defined as disabled, could not work. MR. BRIGGS stated he was unprepared to answer Senator Green's question and he would like to do some research and provide the committee with a specific definition. He pointed out the definition for social security benefits is an eligibility definition. He clarified a person can be disabled, yet not be eligible for social security benefits. CHAIRMAN WILKEN referred to the summary of fiscal notes, and stated if a cumulative amount is used for the Adult Public Assistance Program, then a cumulative amount should be used for the other categories. He noted the $553,000 will diminish substantially if cumulative amounts are used throughout. He suggested that DHSS prepare another fiscal note using all cumulative amounts, or none, before the bill is heard in the Finance Committee. He asked if 20 to 25 different people will benefit each year by going off of Adult Public Assistance with this legislation. MR. SHERWOOD answered yes. Number 504 SENATOR GREEN asked if the costs to the medicaid program in FY 00 will be about $110,000. MR. BRIGGS said the cost would be about $114,000. SENATOR GREEN questioned whether the subtotals will reflect the impact on medicaid money no longer available to someone lower on the list. MR. BRIGGS said yes, that is the general fund expense. SENATOR GREEN asked if the general fund expense covers 60 percent of the cost of the program. MR. BRIGGS explained the numbers on the page Senator Green was looking at are general fund numbers. The numbers on the next page are the overall numbers. There being no further discussion on CSSB 253, CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced the committee would hold the bill for further work. MS. SWENSON added that the effect of the amendment would have been to open the list up to any service that wanted to get around the intent of the list. Instead of adopting the amending, the midwife services were moved down on the list which had the same effect. SENATOR LEMAN clarified that the amendment may have done that, but not necessarily would have. He noted it was not his intent to open the list, so to prevent that from happening, the other approach was used which accomplished the desired result. CHAIRMAN WILKEN thanked all participants for attending. The committee took a brief at-ease. SB 203 - PHONICS CURRICULUM MEL KROGSENG, legislative aide to Senator Taylor, sponsor of SSSB 203, informed committee members she spoke with Dr. Stayrook regarding DOE's proposed amendments. Senator Taylor, after looking at the last proposal from the Department of Education (DOE), still believes that DOE's proposal does not do what he feels is necessary. She pointed out one of the issues of contention is the use of a nationally normed test. She noted that as Senator Green pointed out, tests are available so Alaska does not have to reinvent the wheel. She referred to a faxed document from Texas which speaks to some of the problems experienced in that State. Senator Taylor believes Alaska schools should use a nationally normed test to determine where students' deficiencies are. She stated she had a proposed amendment to change the word "majority" on page 2, line 13, to "no more than 25 percent of the students." Number 462 CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced that four people were waiting to testify via teleconference. He asked Ms. Krogseng if she met with DOE after the Senate HESS meeting on March 23, to discuss the committee's concerns. MS. KROGSENG said she did. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked if DOE proposed some amendments which Senator Taylor rejected. MS. KROGSENG confirmed that is what occurred. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Mr. Garrison to testify. Number 454 GREG GARRISON testified on his own behalf from Hoonah via teleconference. Mr. Garrison said this issue is a personal one for him, because he said when a new reading instruction approach (the Arizona system which has been transformed into whole language) began in the 1950's, it was done on a trial basis as the result of politics. In retrospect, that approach is no better and is not very much worse than the phonics approach that was used earlier. He believes school systems should go back to teaching phonics, and then use the whole language approach with the children who have mastered phonics. Mr. Garrison said in first and second grade, he had difficulty learning to read, and no one monitored his progress or tried to correct his problems until he was in high school. He feels robbed of his education. He added he was punished and told he was dumb because he had difficulty learning to read, when it was the school system that failed. Mr. Garrison stated 20 percent of students had difficulty learning to read with the phonics approach, but 40 to 50 percent have difficulty with the whole language approach. He urged committee members to not reinvent the wheel but instead to teach reading using the phonics approach. Mr. Garrison stated that "right-brained" children do not pick up on the speed reading approach, they need to learn phonics. He noted the main argument by teachers in the Hoonah school system against teaching phonics is that it is time consuming and difficult to teach. Mr. Garrison concluded by saying we have to go back to the system that works and use speed reading as an alternative for students who have shown progress and can handle it. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Ms. Krogseng to describe the faxes she mentioned. MS. KROGSENG informed committee members the document she handed out was faxed from Dr. Bergman of the Texas Reading Institute. It describes Texas's experience with developing its own assessment as the Alaska DOE proposes to do. The Texas assessment did not provide the indicators the schools really needed. Students' scores on that test differed greatly from the standardized normed test scores. She explained the second document was from Education Week. She added that Senator Taylor's office has received reams of material in support of reintroducing phonics into the school system. Number 349 SENATOR TAYLOR noted Ms. Krogseng has spent a lot of time working with DOE staff on its two concerns: how the word "phonics" can be kept out of the bill because the education community is frightened by the imposition of mandates; and DOE's belief that Alaska needs to draw up its own measuring device. Senator Taylor said DOE believes it needs to create its own yardstick so that Alaska students do not have to be measured by a nationally normed test. He questioned who DOE thinks Alaska students will be competing against. He said an Alaska test would be handy if all Alaska students remain within the confines of the State of Alaska, and other students were not allowed in, because DOE could "dumb down" the standard far enough to show that all Alaskan students are above average. Senator Taylor said that is what this Administration did by eliminating the use of nationally normed tests and now DOE "is off in the ethers of educational theory trying to determine what our standards will be." Senator Taylor pointed out a national speaker visited Juneau a month ago and after reviewing DOE's current draft standards, the speaker said DOE has no standards. He said DOE's draft standards provide for a hiring preference for educators with certain backgrounds and DOE wants to set up its own test so as not to gauge Alaska students against anyone else. Senator Taylor noted he modified the bill significantly because people were concerned that the bill is a direct mandate. The bill now requires that nationally normed tests be used for three consecutive years on elementary school students. At the end of the first three year period, if students are scoring well, schools do not have to do anything. If a certain percentage of students score below the national norm, schools will be mandated to teach a phonics-based program as the major part of the reading program. Senator Taylor emphasized that his only concern is that children learn how to read, and he would hope that the same concern was shared by the educational community. He said it obviously is not, or we would not have such disastrous statistics today in our educational system. He stated he wished the educational community would join him in trying to stop the downward slide of reading proficiencies. SENATOR TAYLOR stated Commissioner Holloway knows a problem exists and also supports a phonics-based curriculum. He stated it takes a very courageous administrator in this state to walk into a school system and try to convince the cadre of whole-language based instructors that they are not doing a very good job. He stated moving this institution just a little bit is a huge problem, and it should not be. Number 280 CHAIRMAN WILKEN noted discussion took place at a previous meeting about the advisability of testing first graders, and maybe even second graders. He asked Senator Taylor what his thoughts are on that topic. SENATOR TAYLOR answered if testing does not occur at those grades, a student's problems will not be evident until the third grade. He said his intent is that problems be addressed as soon as a student enters school, rather than waiting three years. Number 270 CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked if under Senator Taylor's proposal, first graders would be tested at the beginning of the school year. SENATOR TAYLOR said yes. CHAIRMAN WILKEN commented the committee struggled through the issue of using nationally-normed tests, and although everyone is not happy, a concensus was reached that the problem will be finding the right test. SENATOR GREEN remarked that grade appropriate tests do exist and those tests are not as intrusive as the "bubble" tests. She asked Senator Taylor if he is committed to using a group administered nationally-normed test. SENATOR TAYLOR said he is not, and would have preferred to require the use of individually administered tests, but group administered tests are less expensive. He stated his intent is to use the test as a screening device to provide an indication of the percentage of students who truly need help. If a student is found to need help, the original draft required that an individually administered test then be given. He repeated the cost of requiring individually administered tests was a factor he tried to avoid. SENATOR GREEN asked whether Senator Taylor would object to providing school districts the option of giving individually administered tests rather than group administered tests. SENATOR TAYLOR said he did not object. SENATOR GREEN thought that option would be appropriate for first graders. She moved to amend SSSB 203 to read on page 2, line 2, "...using a nationally normed individually-administered or group- administered test...." SENATOR LEMAN suggested deleting the words "group-administered" instead. SENATOR GREEN and SENATOR TAYLOR both said they would agree to that amendment. CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced that there being no objection to deleting the word "group-administered" on page 2, line 2, and anywhere else it may appear in the bill, the motion carried. CHAIRMAN WILKEN clarified the committee was discussing SSSB 203, version X. SENATOR WARD moved an amendment to remove the word "majority" on page 2, line 13, and to insert the words "25 percent or more." There being no objection to the adoption of Senator Ward's amendment, CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced the motion carried. SENATOR LEMAN moved to delete the word "problem" on page 2, line 10 and replace it with the word "deficiency." SENATOR GREEN expressed concern that using the word "deficiency" might overlap with the definition of a learning disability, preventing the screening of children who do not actually have a disability. She cautioned against confusing the intent of the language in SSSB 203 with the psycho-educational battery of tests used to diagnose learning disabled students. SENATOR LEMAN stated his intent was to include students who might have a deficiency that was not yet classified as a problem. SENATOR TAYLOR commented he does not want to confuse learning disabilities with learning problems because they are significantly different. CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Senator Green to work on that language. He announced his intent to incorporate the amendments adopted today into a committee substitute along with some changes requested by DOE, and to bring the bill back before the committee. SENATOR WARD noted he planned to make a motion to move the bill out of committee today. The committee took a brief at-ease. CHAIRMAN WILKEN took teleconference testimony on SSSB 203. MR. A.M. JOHNSON made the following comments via teleconference from Ketchikan. He informed committee members a school in Texas, with a 85 to 87 percent minority student body, is now ranked among the top 12 or 13 elementary schools after it was in the bottom quartile of its district three years ago. In the area of reading, the school's success is contributed to the introduction and use of phonics. Systematic intensive phonics calls for repetition and practice. The special education costs in the Texas school district have decreased, and legislative review of abuse of special education funds in Alaska has been acknowledged. He stated Alaska is spending as much as $17,000 per student in some districts, and between 50 and 100 percent of the students in those districts are performing at the lowest quartile in reading. Opposition to phonics instruction is coming from the very institution that has allowed the status quo for years; three more years of it is unacceptable. He stated 21 percent of Ketchikan's students are scoring in the lowest quartile on the Gates-McGinnis test. If one adds the students scoring in the fourth stanine, a total of 41 percent of Ketchikan's first graders are performing at an unacceptable level. Local research is showing that continuance of this deficiency throughout students' schooling contributes to a high percentage of high school drop outs. Those students become discouraged, dropout, and become a problem to society. He stated the Ketchikan school district claims to use phonics, but he calls it "single digit" phonics, not extensive, specific phonics. Mr. Johnson said SSSB 203 is an attempt to address a deficiency and is in line with a national awakening for the need to face this concern with a "fresh old" solution. MR. JOHNSON stated he cannot locate a specific teaching college that teaches the instruction of intensive phonics. Phonics is a result-based process. The code learned through phonics unlocks the ability to understand and learn reading skills. He encouraged committee members to pass SSSB 203. Number 098 HANNAH RAMISKEY, president of the Ketchikan School Board, testified on her own behalf. She stated she believes Senator Taylor's bill is focussed on accountability which seems to be a major public concern. The current concept in education seems to be developmental learning: everyone learns at a different rate and everyone learns in a different style. That approach translates to the fact that no one is responsible. If a child does not learn to read in first or second grade, it is not the fault of the school board, principal or teacher because everyone learns differently. The problem is that the child may still not be able to read at the seventh grade level. If we accept the concept that through second grade children learn to read, and from third grade on they read to learn, every child who cannot read from third grade on begins to lose context, therefore that child will fall further and further behind. MS. RAMISKEY noted she discussed with the Ketchikan School District's superintendent the question of what has been taught to our teachers over the past 20 to 30 years, to determine whether students are not being taught intensive phonics because it is inappropriate for the particular students, or because the teachers are not well versed in the subject. She believes that question needs to be answered if teachers want legislators to stay out of the classroom. She questioned who will be accountable to ensure that every child who is mentally capable learns to read before the third grade so that the lack of those skills does not become detrimental to the child's education through the 12th grade. Number 058 DR. NICK STAYROOK, representing the Department of Education, noted he sent committee members copies of DOE's proposed amendments to SSSB 203. He made the following comments on the three amendments made earlier during the meeting. He thought the deletion of the words "group-administered" was favorable, but he noted that change will alter DOE's fiscal note. Similarly, Senator Ward's motion to change the word "majority" to "25 percent or more" will affect DOE's fiscal note. He referred to a recent joint meeting of the House and Senate HESS committees to review Education Weeks' Quality Counts report. In that report, the State of Alaska received many D and F grades in its education reform movement. One of the major reasons Alaska scored so poorly is that it has no standards or assessments for its students. DOE's concern in moving toward standards and assessment is to improve our educational system through that process. DOE's proposed amendments reflect that concern. CHAIRMAN WILKEN commented two representatives of DOE were present and noted the need for a revised fiscal note. Number 022 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Dr. Stayrook why the two amendments he referred to will impact the fiscal note. DR. STAYROOK replied the costing DOE did to determine the cost of giving group-administered tests was limited to those types of tests only. If individually-administered tests are given, or a different type of screening device is used, DOE will have to look at what the publishers' costs are for those tests. SENATOR TAYLOR asked Dr. Stayrook if he was implying those tests would be more expensive. DR. STAYROOK said he could not say without looking at what is available from test publishers. SENATOR TAYLOR asked why the amendment pertaining to more than 25 percent of the students would impact the fiscal note. DR. STAYROOK answered the original bill required that if a majority of the students at a specific grade level score below the 25th percentile, the governing body would have to create a systematic phonics program. The amendment requires the same approach if 25 percent or more of the students score below the 25th percentile. That percentage change will significantly change the number of districts that will be affected by Section 2. SENATOR TAYLOR asked what costs are associated with incorporating a phonics program into a school district's curriculum. DR. STAYROOK said a number of costs are involved in reviewing what phonics programs are available. Staff development costs will occur as well. The original fiscal note contained funds for staff development and other technical assistance to districts. The amendment will increase the number of districts needing this kind of assistance. CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced his intent is to bring the committee substitute before the committee as soon as possible, most likely Wednesday. He asked DOE staff to revise the fiscal note. SENATOR TAYLOR commented that Dr. Stayrook stated DOE was moving toward educational standards. He reminded committee members DOE had not moved at all toward educational standards until this Legislature passed laws mandating it to do so. DOE has now spent over one year working on the very standards the Legislature gave it the discretion to set. If DOE is unable to come up with standards that are measurable, meaningful, quantifiable, and have had some decent peer review, Alaska will find itself in the same boat. [END OF TAPE] CHAIRMAN WILKEN adjourned the meeting at 10:50 a.m.