SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE January 27, 1993 1:40 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Steve Rieger, Chairman Senator Bert Sharp, Vice-Chairman Senator Loren Leman Senator Jim Duncan Senator Judy Salo Senator Johnny Ellis MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Mike Miller COMMITTEE CALENDAR SENATE BILL NO. 53 "An Act annulling changes made by certain regulations adopted by the Department of Health and Social Services relating to funding of abortion services under the general relief medical program; and providing for an effective date." PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION SB 53 - No previous action to record. WITNESS REGISTER Jay Livey, Deputy Commissioner Department of Health and Social Services P.O. Box 110601 Juneau, ALaska 99811-0601 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Representative Terry Martin State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Ida Barnack Alaskans for Life P.O. Box 32186 Juneau, Alaska 99803-2186 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Ted Deats Box 87 Juneau, Alaska 99802 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Lonna Fagan 9622 Eagle Street Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Phillip Gray 4410 North Douglas Highway Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Robert Head P.O. Box 21218 Juneau, Alaska 99802 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Sid Heidersdorf Box 020658 Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Robin Stevens P.O. Box 33637 Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. John Lindback, President Juneau Coalition for Pro-Choice 4467 Mountainside Drive Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Joan Heidersdorf Box 020658 Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Beverly Berdahl P.O. Box 8303 Nikiski, Alaska 99635 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Ann Pence P.O. Box 43 Kasilof, Alaska 99610 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Rebecca Perry HC 2, Box 562 Kasilof, Alaska 99610 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 53. Ruth Ewig, Secretary Citizens for Excellence in Education 2325 30th Avenue Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Judy Scully Interior Christian Action Council 875 Haida Lane Fairbanks, Alaska 99712 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Anne Harrison 3270 Rosie Creek Road Fairbanks, Alaska 99709 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Laurie Otto 2396 Waldron Drive Anchorage, Alaska 99507 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support SB 53. Bonnie L. Jack 1063 West 20th Avenue Anchorage, Alaska 99503 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Myrna Maynard 2237 Forest Park Drive Anchorage, Alaska 99517 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Ileen Self, Chair Coalition of Alaskans for Choice - Anchorage 5808 Miley Drive Anchorage, Alaska 99504 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Thomas Moffit, Executive Director Alaskans Right to Life Box 201586 Anchorage, Alaska 99520 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against abortions. Harriet Papke P.O. Box 2810 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Claudine Flowers 1014 Hillfair Court Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Ramon Flowers 1014 Hillfair Court Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Sandra Johns P.O. Box 3736 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Mary Clare Foecke P.O. Box 3736 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Eileen Mullen P.O. Box 1394 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Margaret Heneghan P.O. Box 3074 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Mary Lentfer P.O. Box 2617 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Karen Hogan P.O. Box 2228 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Kim Smith, Director Katchimak Bay Family Planning Clinic P.O. Box 3235 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Susan Kerns P.O. Box 984 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Duane Christensen P.O. Box 4123 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Lori Christensen P.O. Box 4123 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Marie Luchaco P.O. Box 3615 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Terri Bramel P.O. Box 2963 Homer, Alaska 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Paula Setterquist 552 Grubstake Homer, Alaska 99503 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Bonnie Glover HC 67, Box 34 Anchor Point, Alaska 99556 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Kathy Polk P.O. Box 020196 Juneau, Alaska 99802 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Kathy Dennis P.O. Box 533 Juneau, Alaska 99802 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. John Monagle P.O. Box 210527 Auke Bay, Alaska 99821 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Sherrie Goll The Alaska Women's Lobby P.O. Box 22156 Juneau, Alaska 99802 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Martha Devereau 2182 South Tongass Highway Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Teresa Crevier 1123 Black Bear Road Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Elinore Jacobsen 2125 Second Avenue Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Heather Muench Box 6811 Ketchikan, Alaska 9901 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Charles Gass 719 Grant Street Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Virginia Phillips 404 Lake Street, # 2-D Sitka, Alaska 99835 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Mary Soltis 615 Degroff Street Sitka, Alaska 99835 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Alice Johnstone Sitkans For Choice 213 Shotgun Alley Sitka, Alaska 99835 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Natasha Calvin Sitka Coalition for Women's Rights Box 2966 Sitka, Alaska 99835 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Charles Horan Sitkans for Life Box 2003 Sitka, Alaska 99835 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Ernest Line, Member Mat-Su Coalition For Choice 2645 Whispering Woods Wasilla, Alaska 99654 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Katie Hurley P.O. Box 970167 Wasilla, Alaska 99687 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Randall Burns, Executive Director Alaska Affiliation of the American Civil Liberties Union 1079 Potlatch Circle Anchorage, Alaska 99503 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Donna Hurdle, Executive Director Planned Parents of Alaska 406 West Fireweed Anchorage, Alaska 99503 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Tom Swanner 240 Pettis Road Anchorage, Alaska 99515 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Joanne Swanner 240 Pettis Road Anchorage, Alaska 99515 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Pamela Beilfuss 11241 Dave Lane Anchorage, Alaska 99515 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Lorraine Ferrell 4358 Rendezvous Circle Anchorage, Alaska 99504 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Leila Wise P.O. Box 244034 Anchorage, Alaska 99524 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Carol Nilson 309 Shannon Drive Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Evelyn Frisk Fairbanks, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Kris Grose President of Alaska Right to Life of the Interior 1111 Eliz Street Fairbanks, Alaska 99705 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified neutrally on SB 53. Susan Flocke 315 "E" Street Douglas, Alaska 99824 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Pat Denny 526 Seward Street Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Aleshia Porter 1834 Stanford Anchorage, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 53. Deborah Luper 1217 Crescent Drive Anchorage, Alaska 99508 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Carl Sturman 135 North Leibrock Circle Soldotna, Alaska 99611 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Carole Hoover 8922 Trio Juneau, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against SB 53. Elmer Lindstrom, Special Assistant Department of Health and Social Services P.O. Box 110601 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601 POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on SB 53. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 93-2, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN RIEGER called the Senate Health, Education, and Social Services (HESS) Committee meeting to order at 1:40 p.m. He noted that there were several members from the House in attendance. The only order of business was SB 53 (ANNULLING ABORTION FUNDING REGULATIONS), sponsored by the Senate HESS Committee. Chairman Rieger explained the contents in the committee member's packets. SENATOR LEMAN informed the committee that he objects to the introduction of SB 53. Number 053 The first person to testify was JAY LIVEY, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Health and Social Services. He indicated that in the member's packets is a fiscal note and a position paper in opposition to the legislation. Mr. Livey indicated that there are people from the Division of Medical Assistance who would be happy to answer any questions. Number 093 REPRESENTATIVE TERRY MARTIN referred to an audit report by the Division of Legislative Audit of the Department of Health and Social Services, and said he believed it was important to find out what the department had been doing regarding abortions. He indicated he had been told that the report was perhaps misleading and that there hadn't been almost 1,200 abortions each year. By Budget and Audit's calculation, they have indicated that the abortion rate has escalated over the last year. Representative Martin indicated that in 1992, the live birth rate in Alaska was approximately 9,900. He explained the state is paying for over 1,100 abortions which he believes is way out of line. Representative Martin discussed statistics in the audit report. He indicated that it is his understanding that the state pays a substantial amount of money for post syndrome abortion people who are having psychological problems after they realize what they have done. If the state is going to pay for psychological problems after the fact, perhaps psychological evaluations should be allowed before the fact. He thanked the committee for listening to his testimony. Number 190 IDA BARNACK, Alaskans for Life, explained her organization is a nonsectarian organization with the primary goal of promoting respect for human life. She urged support for the administration's regulations limiting abortion funding to therapeutic abortions only. She explained that it is her organization's view that the regulations adopted by Department of Health and Social Services covers every possible reason for justifying abortion based on health concerns. Ms. Barnack continued to give testimony in opposition to SB 53, and urged support for the administration's regulations. TED DEATS, representing himself and his twenty-one month old son, testified against SB 53. He discussed the various stages of development and the birth of his son. On behalf of his son, he urged that the state protect unborn children under nine months of age. Number 254 LONNA FAGAN, representing herself, testified against SB 53. She said the regulations don't put a burden on women as abortions will be paid for if there is a good reason. Ms. Fagan said that people who are pro-abortion honestly want to protect women and want to do the right thing for women, but are deeply mislead. She said she believes in choice and a women has the choice to choose when a life will begin and birth control gives that choice. Ms. Fagan explained that she is the mother of three daughters and is trying to get them to understand that for every choice they make, they will have consequences to deal with. There should be education in high school relating birth control and what abortion truly is. She continued to give testimony against the legislation. PHILLIP GRAY spoke in opposition to SB 53 and explained he doesn't think public money should be used to fund abortions. Mr. Gray said he believes that abortions are morally wrong except in rare cases such as to protect the life the mother. He said he supports Governor Hickel's termination of the funding for abortions. ROBERT HEAD was next to testify on SB 53. He asked that the committee seriously evaluate the repeal of the regulations and become closely acquainted with the actual procedure and result of abortion. Mr. Head indicated that he strongly opposes the passage of SB 53. Number 343 SID HEIDERSDORF was next to testify on SB 53. He asked Chairman Rieger if the Senate HESS Committee will be holding additional hearings. CHAIRMAN RIEGER explained that the Senate HESS Committee is the first committee of referral and indicated that there are two other committees of referral where public hearings will be held. Mr. Heidersdorf said abortion is like no other subject and the issue cuts to the heart of who we are and what we stand for. People have the right to be heard on the subject. He noted that the Hickel Administration held hearings in three locations and teleconferenced to seventeen other locations, hearing almost 9,000 people. Mr. Heidersdorf discussed the question, "What is abortion?" He informed the committee that his testimony is in the form of a film which lasts seven minutes entitled "Hard Truth." The film faces the issue of abortion head on and is very graphic. There being no film equipment available at the hearing, Senator Leman, later in the meeting, offered to show any interested committee members the film in his office. ROBIN STEVENS testified against SB 53. He said he would like to address the issue of rights and choice. Mr. Stevens said he believes in choice before sex and rights for everyone. Once a child is on the way, there should be a right for the child to be protected. He indicated that he has a nineteen month old boy. It is inappropriate for the State of Alaska to pay for abortions, Mr. Stevens concluded. Number 435 JOHN LINDBACK, President, Juneau Coalition for Pro-Choice, introduced three board members to the committee. He indicated his organization has been in existence for approximately a year and includes more than 400 people. Mr. Lindback explained that through the use of a mail out survey, they have compiled a database of 3,200 pro-choice women in Juneau. Mr. Lindback indicated that as a result of the survey, three out of every four women in Juneau are pro- choice. SB 53 would protect the constitutional right to privacy for all women in Alaska by preserving a women's right to choose regardless of her income level. Mr. Lindback explained his organization believes Alaska's constitution includes a very broad "right to privacy" clause which protects a women's right to choose regardless of whether she is rich or poor. He said the question really is, particularly for low income women and teenagers under the regulations, "Will they have access to safe abortion services or, whether through desperation, will they seek help in the back alleys?" The regulations will place an undue burden on poor women, particularly in rural area and Southeast Alaska, where abortion services are currently not available. Trips to Anchorage and Seattle are prohibited for the women and abortion services are not available close to home. The regulations would make that situation worse. He urged support for SB 53. JOAN HEIDERSDORF, representing herself, spoke in opposition to SB 53. She explained that in SB 53, the payment of elective abortions are being addressed. The only abortions that would not be paid for are those that refer to sex selection and failure of birth control. Ms. Heidersdorf urged that the committee maintain Governor Hickel's regulations. Number 490 BEVERLY BERDAHL, testified via teleconference, against SB 53. She said she believes that family planning and abortions have devalued children. Ms. Berdahl said as taxpayers, we can't be a part of the murder. She indicated that she has documented information where there are 6,000 cases relating to Planned Parenthood and when it was up to the client to pay, it was one-third the cost as opposed to what the taxpayers pay. She said Planned Parenthood is soaking the taxpayer. SENATOR SALO asked what the source is of Ms. Berdahl's statistics. Ms. Berdahl explained it is a book by Robert H. Ruff, titled "Aborting Planned Parenthood." ANN PENCE, testifying from Soldotna, indicated she supports state funding for abortions and SB 53. Women have the right, including disadvantaged women, to choose abortion. The U.S. Supreme Court's decision to grant women the right to receive an abortion should not apply only to women who can afford it. Ms. Pence said that by ending state funding for abortions, it is just the beginning of the erosion of women's rights in general. She stated she is pro-choice. REBECCA PERRY, of Kasilof, explained that Alaska is one of twelve remaining states that still allows Medicaid funded abortions. Out of the thirty-eight other states that refuse to provide public funds, no exceptions for rape, incest, physical or psychological reasons are made. She said she is a member of a statewide pro-life group that feels that the governor's regulations are totally spineless as far as preventing public funds from being used. The regulations will have little effect of preventing women from accessing public funds. Ms. Perry said she urges the governor and the legislature to reconsider the impact of those regulations and make them tougher if they want to prevent public funds from being used. She said whether she supports the bill or not is of little consequence because she feels the regulations will have little effect. Ms. Perry said she is strongly pro-life and will not compromise and accept the regulations. RUTH EWIG, Secretary, Citizens for Excellence in Education, testified from Fairbanks. She read a statement of opposition to SB 53 on behalf of John Harbaugh, Director; Jonathan Ewig, Assistant Director; and David Stack, Treasurer. Ms. Ewig explained that ninety-seven to ninety- eight percent of pre-born babies have been killed for reasons of birth control. By changing our education system to character development curriculum which is in use in different parts of the country and which has reduced teen pregnancies to zero in California you, as legislators, could serve this state well by using our limited financial resources most profitable and investing in true abstinence education with the advantages emphasized leading to responsible planning that does not butcher babies. Ms. Ewig continued to give testimony against SB 53 and submitted a copy of her statement for the committee file. TAPE 93-2, SIDE B Number 010 JUDY SCULLY, representing the Interior Christian Action Council, testified in opposition of SB 53 and any other legislation similar to it. She indicated her organization believes it is morally wrong for the state to require all citizens to share in the responsibility of killing babies. Even when children aren't wanted by their own mothers, there are couples who do want the children. Ms. Scully urged that the committee members vote "no" on the bill and to move further towards prevention of state funded abortions. ANNE HARRISON, testifying from Fairbanks, spoke in favor of SB 53 and the continued funding of abortion with state funds. She explained that she has spent twenty-seven years in the health care profession and was very deeply involved in women's health care and public health issues. Ms. Harrison said she has seen abortions and has worked very closely with women having abortions. She said she believes the post abortion syndrome is a product of people that are trying to instill guilt and make women feel guilty for the actions that they have chosen at an earlier time of their life. She said she is not, for one moment, denying the dignity of life and the specialness of babies, but there is another perspective in which there are children born into homes that are not willing and ready to accept them. She urged continued funding for abortions. Number 051 LAURIE OTTO, representing herself, concurred with John Lindback's comments. She indicated that she has a friend who had to deal with the aftermath of having an abortion. She said she doesn't think that laws prohibiting abortion will ever stop them from occurring. She indicated that she is strongly pro-choice. Ms. Otto referred to SB 53 and asked the committee to look at page 1, line 11, Section 2, and said it annuls the regulations that were filed by the lieutenant governor on January 20, 1993. That would mean that if the bill passes and becomes law, new regulations could be filed the day after the bill passed. They would not be annulled and the process would have to begin again. Ms. Otto said she thinks a better approach to the problem would be to amend the statutes to require payment for abortions. She referred to SB 55, Sections 2, 3, and 6, and said it includes the language that could be added to SB 53 which would accomplish that result. SENATOR LEMAN referred to back alley abortions and asked Ms. Otto if she knows what the cost differential was or what it might be between those that would be driven to such a provider of service and those who would get it from a standard health care provider if state funding for elective abortions were withdrawn. MS. OTTO discussed a situation where a girl who did not have access to funding attempted a self health procedure and created a major injury to her body. It was a free abortion, but it ended up creating lifetime problems. Ms. Otto said she didn't have money and abortions were illegal at that time. BONNIE L. JACK, testifying from Anchorage, explained she is pro-choice and is in favor of SB 53. She named several committees she is a member of such as Coalition of Alaskans for Choice Steering Committee, the Alaska Women's Political Caucus Steering Committee, and the Republican Association of Professional and Business Women. Ms. Jack urged passage of the bill and asked that legislators not allow abortions to go back to being unsafe for poor women. She said the voters of Alaska spoke loud and clear in 1982 when they said yes to state funded abortions. Ms. Jack discussed political polls with regard to state funded abortions. By not funding abortions, poor women will be punished and possibly killed by unsafe illegal back alley butchers, Ms. Jack concluded. Number 114 MYRNA MAYNARD, testifying from Anchorage, informed committee members she is married with two children and has two grandchildren. She explained she is anti-abortion but very pro-choice. Ms. Maynard said Governor Hickel has made lots of promises he couldn't keep and at the end of the year decided he needed a peace offering and, unfortunately, chose poor women to use as a fallout. She suggested that perhaps Governor Hickel should concentrate on making contraceptives available to all Alaskans and make sex education available to teenagers. She urged that SB 53 be passed and that the committee consider Ms. Otto's recommendations. ILEEN SELF, Chairman, Coalition of Alaskans for Choice - Anchorage, was next to testify in support of SB 53. She said she would like to remind the committee of the extensive public testimony that was taken on this issue last summer and how many people testified widely against the regulations. Abortion is a legal option and to single out abortion services for exclusion when pre and post natal care, childbirth, contraceptives and sterilization are all choices that are supported through the expenditure of state funds, is not fair. She said she shares the concerns of Ms. Otto and others who have said that the bill does not go far enough to protect women by simply repealing these specific regulations that have been adopted. Ms. Self asked that it be noted into the public record that she has observed members of the public copying down names, addresses and telephone numbers of people testifying at the hearing and said she hopes that Mr. Moffit and others who have taken down names have only the most honorable of intentions as to how they will make uses of the names, addresses and telephone numbers. Number 158 THOMAS MOFFIT, Executive Director, Alaskans Right to Life, said he agrees that the regulations are along the lines of a sham. He said the Alaskans Right to Life Political Action Committee discussed SB 53 and the regulations. He said the regulations are null and void and are not worth the paper they are printed as they provide for the continuing payment of abortions which are in the physical or psychological health interests of the women. He said everyone around the state realizes what kind of a physician would perform any medical procedure on anyone if he/she didn't believe that is was in the physical or psychological interest of their patients. He said the regulations are a waste of the public's time. HARRIET PAPKE, testifying from Homer, indicated that she has had thirty-five years of experience in health care and is against SB 53. She believes that women on Medicaid have been lead to believe that abortions are a safe and an effective means of birth control. She discussed her experience of working with a twenty-four year old women who had four legal abortions in the last five years. Ms. Papke said just because abortions are legal, it doesn't make them safe. She explained that we continue to lie to women about the safety of abortion as a means of birth control and she resents her tax dollars being used to perpetuate the lie. CLAUDINE FLOWERS testified strongly against state funding for abortions. She said she doesn't want her tax dollars to pay for killing children or to saddle women with regret and emotional pain that will stay with them for the rest of their lives. Ms. Flowers said each baby has their own bodily functions and they are prejudged. Ms. Flowers discussed a situation she was involved in regarding her own child and urged that SB 53 not be passed. RAMON FLOWERS, testifying against SB 53, explained that he was adopted and that when his biological mother found out that she was pregnant with him, she was probably faced with either aborting him or putting him up for adoption and she chose life. Mr. Flowers asked the committee make it illegal for abortions to be done and to try to open more adoption facilities. He explained life is more important than death and urged that the legislation not be passed. Number 250 SANDRA JOHNS, testifying from Homer, explained she is in support of SB 53 and wants state funded abortions to continue. She said she believes to cut funding would be unconstitutional. MARY CLARE FOECKE testified in support of SB 53. She urged that the state not continue to repress those of limited means, not continue to violate a women's right to privacy and to allow women to exercise their own human rights. To be pro-choice is not to be anti life or anti children and is, in fact, essential for the celebration of life that women be given back the right to self determination, Ms. Foecke concluded. EILEEN MULLEN testified in support of SB 53. She indicated she has two children. Ms. Mullen said there should be state funding of abortions. All women in Alaska deserve a choice as to what happens with their body. Ms. Mullen said it is especially important that children are wanted and urged passage of the bill. MARGARET HENEGHAN, testifying from Homer, was in favor of SB 53. She said she doesn't believe in preventing women from having an abortion. SB 53 will allow women of all economic classes to make their personal choices to have or not to have an abortion. By not allowing state funded abortions, women of lower economic status will be forced to have unwanted unplanned children or a back alley abortions. It creates hardships on the women and potential strain on Alaska's welfare system. Number 279 MARY LENTFER, a thirty-five year Alaskan resident, explained that she has been in the health field for many years and has seen what is called "back room abortions." Ms. Lentfer said she is in support of SB 53. SENATOR LEMAN said the average cost that the state pays for an abortion is approximately $440 and asked Ms. Lentfer is she is aware of what the price is of the so called "back alley abortionist." Ms. Lentfer indicated she isn't aware of the cost. KAREN HOGAN testified in support of SB 53. She said the decision to have an abortion is a serious adult decision. Individuals on public assistance should and must be given the same respect as they are making this personal difficult decision. Abortion is legal and funding should and must be continued, she concluded. KIM SMITH, Director, Katchimak Bay Family Planning Clinic, said she is a mother of three and indicated she has had to make the difficult choice of having an abortion. Ms. Smith said the women she has spoken to who have chosen to terminate their pregnancies have made that decision prior to getting any kind of information as to where they can get that abortion. They have already made their choices and denying them access will not change their mind. She thanked the committee for hearing her. SUSAN KERNS, a ten-year resident of Alaska and a registered voter, testified in support of SB 53. She said in a larger scheme of things, the cost of abortions to state government is negligible. The issue is not how many abortions or the amount of money being spent on state funded abortions, but it is denying poor women access to a legal medical procedure. She said Alaska's Constitution has strong protection to the right of privacy and the right of equal access. The regulations condemn teens and poor women to back alley abortions. It is a common statistic that when abortions are denied, women die. There was a public referendum on the issue in 1982, sixty percent of the voting public voted to oppose limiting public funds spent on abortion. She thanked the committee for the opportunity to testify. DUANE CHRISTENSEN, testifying from Homer, was against SB 53. He said the wording in the present regulation really has little if any restrictive quality. He said why the legislature and others are fighting so diligently to remove the restrictions is beyond him. Mr. Christensen said Center for Disease Control figures show that ninety-eight percent of the abortions performed are for convenience. He said this means that women are actively making their choices and that is that they choose to get themselves pregnant. Mr. Christensen said he is against SB 53. LORIE CHRISTENSEN said she is against SB 53. Pregnancy is preventable from abstinence, contraceptives, sterilization. A child doesn't destroy your life and if your not ready for the responsibility, there is adoption. Ms. Christensen said abortion is killing a human and the state shouldn't fund them. She urged that the legislature put their energy into making adoption easier and teaching abstinence. Women have the right to choose before conception, she concluded. Number 390 MARIE LUCHACO testified against SB 53 and any other bills that refer to the funding or legalization of abortions. She indicated concern about passing a bill through the legislature without exposing it to the light for all public opinion to be heard as deceitful and deceptive. Ms. Luchaco discussed the Planned Parenthood Program. She asked that the legislators work for all people and not just a selected few and their selfish motives. TERRI BRAMEL, of Homer, testified in support of SB 53. She said she believes poor women have the same constitutional rights as others and she hopes the legislature will protect them. PAULA SETTERQUIST testified in favor of SB 53. She said she is the mother of one child. She said she believes that poor women in the state will have back alley abortions. Ms. Setterquist offered to some of the people listening that Alaska doesn't have a state income tax. BONNIE GLOVER, testifying from Homer, said she is against SB 53. Number 422 KATHY POLK, testifying in Juneau, explained she is a full blooded Tlingit Indian born and raised in Juneau. She said she can do anything with her body that she wants, but she does not have the right to kill her children or the right to have an abortion. She told the committee that approximately 5,000 children are killed a day through abortion. The decision of abortion lies in the hands of the law makers of the state. Ms. Polk said she is against SB 53 and any similar legislation. She said she is sick and tired of hearing the poor women. Ms. Polk said she had thirteen brothers and sisters of which she was the oldest. Her father was a cab driver and though there wasn't much food on the table, they ate and there was love in the family. She asked the committee to have compassion for the babies. She discussed the development phases of a child and urged that SB 53 not be passed. SENATOR ELLIS referred to Ms. Polk's comment on being sick and tired of the poor women and asked her to comment further. Ms. Polk explained she comes from a poor family and was a high school drop out. Because of persistence and determination, she was able to overcome it. Ms. Polk said she believes that every single women has the potential to be whatever she wants to be and doesn't have to be poor. She questioned why women do not use available birth control. Ms. Polk said if they get pregnant through rape or incest, why are we not going after them. She discussed some research she had done in relation to abortion and the amount of money that the state has paid out. TAPE 93-3, SIDE A Number 052 KATHY DENNIS was next to speak on SB 53. She explained she was the eighth child in a low income family and her natural father drowned in a fishing accident. It would have been easy for her mother to be talked into an abortion. She said there was close family among her native people that wanted a baby and so she was adopted. Ms. Dennis said she is a Tlingit Indian and a single parent of a daughter who is twenty-one and a eight year old son. She discussed a situation where her daughter got pregnant and the first thing that she was asked is if she wanted an abortion. Ms. Polk said she now has a two year old grandson. JOHN MONAGLE testified against SB 53. He indicated he concurs with Ms. Polk's and Ms. Dennis' testimony. Mr. Monagle said he, as a taxpayer, would like to see the state get out of the business of killing infants. SHERRIE GOLL explained she is testifying on behalf of herself, The Alaska Women's Lobby, and for the vast majority of Alaskans who support choice and the protection of their constitutional rights. She said she supports SB 53 and would like to see the regulations annulled. Ms. Goll explained she agrees with Ms. Otto's comments on amending the bill. The regulations infringe on women's rights and discriminates against Alaskans based upon how much money they make. She said if the body doesn't address the regulations, the state will be involved in a law suit as people are not going to stand for the discrimination. Ms. Goll continued to give testimony in favor of the passage of SB 53. MARTHA DEVEREAU testified from Ketchikan against SB 53. She indicated she doesn't support abortion for any reason and would like to see the proposed regulations changed to reflect her view. She discussed the development of a baby, the abortion procedure, and the associated psychological disturbances. Ms. Devereau discussed statistics in relation to abortion. TERESA CREVIER, testifying from Ketchikan, was in opposition of SB 53. She said she would strongly support regulations that truly restricted state funding of non-therapeutic abortions. She discussed her views regarding President Clinton's action on lifting a ban on federally funded fetal tissue research. Ms. Crevier explained that ninety-one percent of abortions are preformed in the first trimester. She asked the committee to please consider the opening of this "Pandora's Box" by continuing the support of state funded abortions in any form. ELINORE JACOBSEN, testifying from Ketchikan, urged support for SB 53. She said she supports the right of every women to safe and comprehensive health care. The decisions concerning reproductive health care is personal and the right to make informed decisions should be available to all women. She said choice and self determination is the foundation of all civil rights. Ms. Jacobsen continued to discuss her views in support of SB 53. Number 356 HEATHER MUENCH testified in support of SB 53. She said the state currently provides health care for low income women and it is not the state's place to make a so called "world judgement" on abortion for these low income women. Ms. Muench said low income women are not any less sexually responsible than women who can pay for their abortion. An abortion is a legal health care procedure and the state is obligated to pay for low income abortions. Ms. Muench urged support for SB 53. CHARLES GASS, a twenty-nine year resident of Ketchikan, spoke in opposition to SB 53. He said he believes the bill is unnecessary. Mr. Gass said if state money has to be spent, it should be spent in the direction of education aimed at preventing unwanted pregnancies. He urged that the committee view the seven minute video "Hard Truth." Number 388 VIRGINIA PHILLIPS explained she is a sixty-eight year old part Tlingit woman. She said she had an abortion and did suffer post traumatic syndrome. Currently, she is serving on the Alaska Women's Commission and is the Alaska State Chapter Chair of the National Republican Coalition for Life. She said since 1985 she has been the National Right to Life spokes person for the American Indian and Alaska Native. Ms. Phillips said she opposes SB 53 and money that belongs to all Alaskans should not be used to fund elective procedures for a small elect group of women. The "poor women" argument only makes sense if the state would also fund any elective surgery, including cosmetic surgery, for all Alaskans. Ms. Phillips continued to give reasons she doesn't support SB 53. MARY SOLTIS testified against SB 53 for the reason that in kindergarten she learned it was wrong to kill people. ALICE JOHNSTONE, representing herself and Sitkans For Choice, testified in strong support of SB 53. As long as there are no contraceptives that are 100 percent effective, unplanned and unwanted pregnancies will occur. Poor women should not be denied the access to abortions that are available to other women. Ms. Johnstone respectfully requested that the committee amend SB 53 to strengthen it and pass it out of committee with a "do pass" recommendation. Number 435 SENATOR RIEGER asked Ms. Clothilde Bahovec to testify from Sitka. He was informed that she had to leave. MS. NATASHA CALVIN, representing the Sitka Coalition for Women's Rights, was next to testify in support of SB 53. She noted that Ms. Bahovec was going to testify on behalf of the League of Women Voters in favor of SB 53. She thanked the HESS Committee for sponsoring the bill. She said the Governor's Office has admitted that there is no financial justification for stopping payment for abortions. Ms. Calvin said it is clearly the religious agenda of the Catholic Church. The HESS Committee should be researching ways to provide universal medical coverage for all Alaskans and a good place to start is to continue funding all health services for the disadvantaged, especially abortions for poor women who cannot afford to pay for them. CHARLES HORAN, Sitkans For Life, said that the issue is an important issue and allowing further testimony should be considered. He urged that the committee members watch the video "Hard Truth." Mr. Horan said his organization doesn't oppose women's reproductive rights, a women's right to privacy, and does not oppose equal treatment for all women regardless of their economic situation. Mr. Horan said Sitkans For Life are opposed to forcing citizens of the state to pay for having a human life destroyed. He asked the committee to consider whether the state has an obligation to pay for the destruction of human life or if the state should be guarding the rights of the weakest and most helpless individuals in our society - the unborn child. He continued to give testimony against SB 53. Number 474 ERNEST LINE, Mat-Su Coalition For Choice, concurred with the testimony of John Lindback. He said the funding of abortion services would be much less expensive than affording natal costs and the costs of maintaining unwanted children until the age of eighteen. Mr. Line said the personal and/or religious biases of the present administration or any other administration should not be imposed on the people of the state. He urged passage of SB 53. KATIE HURLEY testified in support of SB 53. She said she concurs with the testimony of John Lindback, Ernest Line, Natasha Calvin, Sherrie Goll, Laurie Otto and the others who were supportive of the passage of the bill. She thanked the committee for hearing her. Number 506 RANDALL BURNS, Executive Director, Alaska Affiliation of the American Civil Liberties Union, testified from Anchorage in support of SB 53. He said his organization is opposed to the regulation changes that the Hickel Administration has proposed which would deny any Alaska women on public assistance the right to terminate their pregnancy. He said they are opposed as it would be unconstitutional. In the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision in the case of Planned Parenthood versus Casey, the court recognized "The ability of women to participate equally in the economic and social lives of the nation has been facilitated by their ability to control their reproductive lives." Mr. Burns explained his organization plans to bring suit against the state to halt implementation of the regulations. Action on SB 53 by the legislature could also avoid significant litigation by the state. He urged support of SB 53. DONNA HURDLE, Executive Director, Planned Parents of Alaska, testified in support of SB 53. She said Alaska has a long tradition of respecting the right to privacy and women's decisions about their reproductive health. There is also the long tradition of nondiscrimination with respect to that right. She urged the committee to support SB 53. Ms. Hurdle explained her organizations three clinics serve many Medicaid eligible women. Some of them have unplanned pregnancies which if continued, would create severe hardships for them and their family. Many of them simply cannot afford the cost of an abortion. She discussed statistics and survey results relating to the number of people who support state funding of abortions for poor women. Ms. Hurdle commended the committee for introducing SB 53 and urged that it be passed. TOM SWANNER, testifying from Anchorage, spoke against SB 53. He said a women's reproductive rights has to do with ovaries, fallopian tubes and the uterus. Once she is pregnant, we are talking about a human that is alive and ought to be protected. Mr. Swanner discussed situations relating to delivering a baby and finding a baby in a dumpster while a police officer. TAPE 93-3, SIDE B Number 001 Mr. Swanner urged the committee not to pass SB 53 and to vote "no" on abortions of any kind. JOANNE SWANNER, Tom Swanner's wife, also testified against SB 53. She said in twenty years 100,000 Alaskan babies have died violent deaths at the hands of abortionists. The idea that there are safe abortions is a lie. A back alley and a front alley abortion are exactly the same things. She explained that abortion is the most dangerous medical procedure of our time. Ms. Swanner discussed the emotional trauma following an abortion. The reason Planned Parenthood is supporting SB 53 is because one of their basic goals is to eliminate the poor and minority and abortion has proven to be a method of achieving this goal. Ms. Swanner indicated we need to stop the funding of abortions in Alaska and make all killing of babies illegal. She asked that the committee not pass SB 53. PAMELA BEILFUSS, testifying against SB 53, said she was under the impression that during the last election the state's representatives were going to Juneau with a firm commitment to cut state spending and to bring the budget under control. She said she was very upset to find that the legislators want to reinstate state funding which the governor is trying to limit. Ms. Beilfuss said she feels that women who believe that they cannot afford an abortion need to find private funds for their use or review their options more closely before the child is conceived. She discussed the financial difficulties of living in bush areas. LORRAINE FERRELL, a mother of two children, explained she is pro-life. She said she believes that abortion is morally wrong and it robs a human life. Ms. Ferrell discussed statistics relating to the state funding of abortions. She urged that the committee not support SB 53. LEILA WISE, testifying from Anchorage, said she supports public funding of abortions for poor women. She said public funding is an investment in women's lives, in their future and their family's future. She explained that one out of four children in the United States lives in poverty. By allowing women to make their own choices, regardless of income, can we help in the vicious cycle of poverty to make sure that all children are treated with dignity, respect and love. Ms. Wise said she shares Laurie Otto's concern and encouraged that the committee amend the bill to specifically continue public funding of abortions for poor women and to ensure equity. Number 120 The next person to testify was CAROL NILSON. She requested the committee to oppose state funding of abortions. She said as a Christian, she takes her ethical principles from the Bible. Ms. Nilson read quotes from the Bible. She urged opposition to SB 53 and similar legislation. EVELYN FRISK gave testimony in support of SB 53. She said she believes all reproductive choices should be viewed as health issues and they are and should be available to all women in the state. It is time to stop using regulations on legislation to discriminate and it is time to recognize women's full personhood rights and values as equal to that of men. KRIS GROSE, President of Alaska Right to Life of the Interior, said her organization remains neutral on SB 53 because they believe the regulations provided nothing to begin with. She referred to literature before her and said it states that before Rowe v. Waid, ninety percent of abortions were performed by licensed physicians. Women aren't forced into abortion, they choose abortion. She explained the literature also states that ninety-one percent of women undergoing abortions do suffer post traumatic syndrome. The problem with gathering statistical information is there is no clearinghouse for it. Ms. Grose continued to discuss her views regarding abortion. Number 180 SUSAN FLOCKE testified against SB 53. She referred to people testifying on women's choices and rights, and said the child has a right to life. She informed committee members that she worked in an orphanage in Romania and there were some children that wouldn't have been there if they hadn't been born during Ceaucescu's time when abortion was forbidden. Ms. Flocke asked, "Where does the protection for the children end? Do we have to wait for their first scream or should they be protected from the point of conception." Ms. Flocke said a right to abortion in future years lessens the chances for the children to have a right to life. SENATOR ELLIS referred to Ms. Flocke's experience in Romania with the orphanages and asked if she would favor a social policy in the U.S. to compel women to have children or to outlaw abortion which was the Ceaucescu policy. Ms. Flocke said to outlaw abortion doesn't compel women to have children because there are alternative and preventive ways. Senator Ellis discussed the Romanian and communist Chinese policies regarding abortion and said things can get out of hand when the government has that kind of power over individuals lives. Ms. Flocke said it should never be a government issue. She discussed some situations in Romania of women who lived through the Ceaucescu regime. PAT DENNY testified in opposition to SB 53. She said the regulations are not strong enough. She urged the committee members to review the video. Ms. Denny discussed her experience of how she testified twenty years ago before the legislature in the State of Washington regarding the abortion issue. She noted she has been a social worker for over forty years. Number 288 ALESHIA PORTER, testifying in Juneau, informed the committee she is twenty-three years old. She said she is in the age and economic bracket that will be most affected by the legislation. She said she has seen friends and colleagues who required abortions when necessary. When her friends couldn't afford abortions, they were fortunate enough to have friends who leant fiscal support. Many of the women were in the lower economic brackets and could not support a child in any form had they continued their pregnancies. Ms. Porter said her concern is for her friends, herself and the women without the necessary means to afford an abortion who must shoulder the overwhelming burden of an unwanted child. SENATOR LEMAN asked Ms. Porter when an abortion is necessary. Ms. Porter said in one case an abortion was necessary when a birth control method was used and failed. She explained her friend was in no economic position or in an emotional position to support the children. Senator Leman said the decision wasn't based on the life/health of the mother, incest or rape. Ms. Porter said in some cases it was a health choice, but it was also an economic choice. Senator Leman and Ms. Porter continued to discuss the abortion issue. SENATOR SALO asked Ms. Porter if she believes that there are advocates for abortion trying to convince people to choose an abortion. Ms. Porter said she has never seen someone actively counsel for abortions. Number 419 DEBORAH LUPER testified against SB 53. She said she hopes that the committee will hold additional public hearings because abortion is a divisive issue and the residents of Alaska deserve time to make their comments. Ms. Luper urged that the committee watch the video "Hard Truth." She said that the medical funds that are in the General Medical Relief Assistance Program are to further the health and well being of the baby and the mother. Ms. Luper continued to discuss hardships during her childhood. She indicated that she had gotten pregnant and chose not to have an abortion. Every medical person she spoke to advocated abortion and nobody ever supported her decision to have her child. Ms. Luper said there are over a million people who apply for babies, a vast majority never get the chance to adopt a child. When they do, they have to leave the country. She explained if the adopted parents are white, they are not allowed to adopt black babies or allowed to adopt Alaska native babies without the expressed consent of that racial group. Ms. Luper said oil revenues belong to the people of the state and it is wrong to force our citizens to pay for an act that they believe is morally wrong. She said she feels that if the pro-abortion faction wants women to have access to abortion, they need to fund it themselves and not ask the people of Alaska to do it. Number 519 CARL STURMAN, testifying from Soldotna, was in opposition to SB 53. He discussed watching a video entitled "Silent Scream." Mr. Sturman said abortion has to do with a human life and that life should be protected at all costs. CAROLE HOOVER, testifying from Juneau, spoke against SB 53. She said she doesn't believe that anywhere in the constitution does it say that women have the right to stop life. TAPE 93-4, SIDE A Number 001 Ms. Hoover discussed a situation where she had a child later in life and when she recognized that she was pro-life. She said she worries that the figures for minority native children are higher than the average. She noted she has a grandchild that is a minority. Ms. Hoover urged that children be educated. Number 092 CHAIRMAN RIEGER indicated that written testimony he receives will be entered into the committee file as a part record. SENATOR LEMAN said that it would be inappropriate to move SB 53 as he believes that there were a number of issues raised and there is testimony that the committee hasn't had an opportunity to read. He said it would also be appropriate for the committee to review information off of the video tape. Senator Leman said he recognizes that of those people present at the meeting, he probably represents a minority viewpoint. Nevertheless, it is important that the committee members receive full information and cast an informed vote. Senator Leman said if there is a motion to discharge the bill from committee, he will object for the above mentioned reasons. He said a lot of people testified and the preponderance of testimony does not necessarily support the regulations as written, but the testimony opposes the bill which would annul the regulations. More needs to be done to enhance the lives of citizens. There are ways to care more about them and to provide for them. Providing state funding for abortions is not the way to do it. Senator Leman said he is concerned with what he sees as the potential for a cultural genocide. He believes that Alaska natives are a targeted group. Both Vice President Gore and President Clinton have expressed interest in reducing and making abortion rare. Paying for them with public funds doesn't help us achieve that goal. Senator Leman said he believes some better approaches would be to work toward measures that accomplishes what should be accomplished such as passing "parental notice" legislation and information to help make informed decisions. It would be better for the committee to be doing things that are positive and constructive than to be taking the present approach. Number 173 SENATOR SALO stated that she is appreciative of the testimony given. She said that what she was impressed with at the present meeting is that there was some focus on the things that both sides of the issue have in common rather than just the differences. She said there was discussion about education and birth control information and she urged that those people who testified be involved when the committees and school districts are developing those health and education programs. She said they should be there when information about birth control is made available. She noted sometimes that has met with problems. Senator Salo indicated she doesn't believe that Alaskan Natives are victimized by the availability of abortions, whether they are publicly or privately funded. The Alaska Native population as well as others are victimized by poverty. She said of course they show up on statistics relating to funded abortions in a greater rate because of that poverty. An issue Senator Salo said wasn't talked about in great detail was the right of privacy in regards to the regulations. Currently, if you were a victim of rape or incest, whether you were poor or rich you could very quietly terminate that pregnancy. She said under the proposed regulations, she assumes a women would have to prove that the crime had occurred to somebody. That is twice victimizing the victim of a sexual crime. Senator Salo stated she is supportive of SB 53 because she is supportive of equal access and the right of privacy. Number 217 SENATOR SHARP said he feels that the bill had an extensive HESS hearing and it is assigned to two other committees where more testimony can be taken. He said he believes that there will be considerable input in the future. Senator Sharp said the committee should consider giving other legislators a chance to make a decision on the matter. He asked the chairman what his intentions are as far as a motion to pass the bill out of committee. CHAIRMAN RIEGER asked what the pleasure of the committee was. SENATOR SHARP made a motion to move the bill out of the Senate HESS Committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR LEMAN objected. He said he does see a representative from the Department of Health and Social Services who may be able to answer Senator Salo's question relating to what the procedure would be for a victim of rape and incest. Number 260 ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant, said he would hesitate to give a definitive answer on the question although it would be his reading that Senator Salo is right that a therapeutic abortion would be allowed to be paid for with state funds. There would have to be a determination of the basis of why it would be therapeutic. Mr. Lindstrom said it would be a matter between the individual and, in all likelihood, the physician. That is subject to the confidentiality that exists between a physician and a patient. Senator Leman said Mr. Lindstrom's response doesn't trouble him because he doesn't believe that it is any different from any other process in a patient - medical provider relationship. If the claim of rape or incest is made, there may be others involved in the reporting. It would have to be reported to the law enforcement agencies which he believes would be totally appropriate. He said he doesn't think the victim would be twice victimized. CHAIRMAN RIEGER formally closed the public hearing. There being no further discussion, a roll call was taken on Senator Sharp's motion to move the bill out of the Senate HESS Committee. Senator Leman voted "no," and Senators Rieger, Sharp, Duncan, Ellis and Salo voted "yes." Chairman Rieger noted that Senator Miller's absence was excused. So the motion passed with a vote of five to one, one excused. Number 295 Chairman Rieger adjourned the Senate HESS Committee meeting at 5:07 p.m.